references♥_1450-1470

[vagrant charm]

🤷‍♂️

[stuck pelican]

all armor has some variation between them

[vagrant charm]

Look at period art

[stuck pelican]

I rather look at exhibits

[vagrant charm]

Yeah

[stuck pelican]

See they’re all sometimes way off by that helmet to the right

[vagrant charm]

But sometimes those are just mixes of random pieces that are similar

[turbid shadow]

gotta pay respects to ivans old pfp

[stuck pelican]

I mean, wouldent you think some countries would take equipment that they won and then re-engineer it

[turbid shadow]

that right here is just too late for half sword

[vagrant charm]

Some styles mixed by trade

Like if Italian smiths made armor for a German market

[stuck pelican]

9$ oh

oh

why did I do 9 dollars

I love those big ass protections for the neck

[vagrant charm]

What years is half sword

[turbid shadow]

1430-1480

[vagrant charm]

Nice

[stuck pelican]

Didn’t the Spanish have big ass vests with protrusions that acted like a neck guard

[vagrant charm]

Can we hope for kasten brust?

[turbid shadow]

yeah, those do fit the time period

[stuck pelican]

It can be 1400~ area but unlikely

[turbid shadow]

I believe

[stuck pelican]

This is basically all already ingame lol

This one just has chain covers for shoes

Actually that would be very nice to have

This is Italian, pretty sure it’s also 15th

I love those pointy yet stubby helmets… so beautiful to me

[turbid shadow]

the helmet isn't, although ivan has already made it its not in the game yet

[stuck pelican]

@turbid shadow did they ever have gloves with like better protection or like spikes or whatever

[stuck pelican]

Why make it, if it’s not for the game?

Oh

I thought you said it’s not for the game, instead of not in the game

[stuck pelican]

Shimmy yeah shimmy uh

A mace like that end would be sick

1540 I’m guessing this is a knight as he has spikes for a horse

Replicas, but I would love if we could just have all armor as seperate parts so we could have like.. Italian mercenary vibes whilst moving up the ranks

[turbid shadow]

pretty nice kit that this guy has

more depictions of them

[turbid shadow]

love the green fit, I believe its inspired by this

[vagrant charm]

This guy has my personal favorite kasten brust kit

[vagrant charm]

Can’t find any more Pictor him tho

[turbid shadow]

you can reverse search the picture and see what pops up for you

[turbid shadow]

Awesome stuff

[stuck pelican]

Egg helmet 😭

[stuck pelican]

I love it when the vests stick out a hefty amount. So just appealing against maces too!

[vagrant charm]

Konrad Witz goes hard

[stuck pelican]

Probably one of my most disliked face visors is the bottom right

[modest pecan]

I find the dog snout visor quite amusing

[stuck pelican]

It looks like a cheese grater

[modest pecan]

My favourite helmet deosnt have a visor tho

My favourite helmet is the cylinder one

[vagrant charm]

A bascinet?

[modest pecan]

No

Great helm

[vagrant charm]

Oh

[modest pecan]

Cylindrical flat top helmet

[modest pecan]

Yes

[stuck pelican]

Aren’t these 14th century

Like 12th - 14th

[stuck pelican]

I’d love this helmet, and the other two posts of mine below

[vagrant charm]

The specific great helms I posted are 13thc but great helms we’re in use from 12th-14thc iirc

[vagrant charm]

Well prolly get armets soon

[stuck pelican]

I’ll ask Ivan about maybe having one of the late 14th century ones

[vagrant charm]

Here’s a 14thc one

But we prolly won’t get any

If you want a similar game but In 13thc you should check out kinstrife

[stuck pelican]

@turbid shadow what year were these helmets again

[vagrant charm]

1380-1410s I think

[sullen charm]

halfsword

[stuck pelican]

Medieval staff sling

• used because it basically require no training

[sullen charm]

A page just isn't a serf lol

[sullen charm]

Fustiballus lesgooo

[stuck pelican]

Peasant weapons #8183

Peasant flail!

[sullen charm]

It's a flail

[stuck pelican]

mb

I believe these are flanged maces

[sullen charm]

Do you think landsknechte ever used those?

[stuck pelican]

I have no idea what that is

[sullen charm]

german mercenaries with colorful clothes and pike/halberd/zweihanders

[stuck pelican]

idk but I saw one of the German 15D being used by a man at arms

Bill (top)

[sullen charm]

(granted it's during a parade but still a funny sight)

[stuck pelican]

I HAVE NO IDEA.

[sullen charm]

Wow that's ..

subpar

[stuck pelican]

fucked European axes

Cool drawn up thing for all the pole arms

[sullen charm]

so cool

[stuck pelican]

Don’t we already have something similar

[sullen charm]

i think so but it's cool

[stuck pelican]

Actually I feel like I’d prefer this one as it’s more… protective with the side plates

@sullen charm do you know if they ever mixed helmets with like maille skirts on them

like those construction helmets with fabrics

[sullen charm]

I don't understand

[stuck pelican]

helmet, and on the side and back of the heads maille hands off the helmet

instead of having a full head cover of like metal

[sullen charm]

Yes

[stuck pelican]

also guns

[sullen charm]

Bascinets, viking and rus helms ect

[stuck pelican]

Got images?

[sullen charm]

repro but you get the intention

[stuck pelican]

sadly Vikings are like 8th - 11th century

[sullen charm]

(viking)

[stuck pelican]

pretty awesome

[turbid shadow]

he lives

[sullen charm]

Ah you're talking about the game's timeframe

Sadly i don't think of any

Except maille collars on armets for instance

[stuck pelican]

I wish we could like

Make a Google document

With just a bunch of equipment that isn’t ingame but could be cool to have

[sullen charm]

I mean maybe you could count up maille bevors ?

[stuck pelican]

Like brig and brig spaulders

those are cool…

@sullen charm why don’t they layer maille over the plate armor

[sullen charm]

Cuz that wouldn't do anything useful and add unecessary weight

Also maille isn't very fashionable

At least not as much as some coth or metal decor

[stuck pelican]

Was fashion a priority over life

[sullen charm]

But having maille over plate really doesn't do anything to protect you

you'd rather than maille in the places the plate doesnt cover

Makes no sense having maille put on top of plate since the plate is already plenty enough

[stuck pelican]

True

[robust tendon]

maille is armor that helps with cuts primarily. Of course it still was okay at protecting against other weapons but its best against sword slashes and stabs

Plate is already the best you are going to get in that regard

Maille was used as voiders when full plate harness started appearing, and the underarmor you’d use was gambeson

Since its good to have as extra kinetic force protection

[sullen charm]

You were right until the gambeson part

[robust tendon]

What do you mean?

[sullen charm]

Gambeson (as an undergarment, not counting jupons) was not worn under plate

And plate is already plenty enough protection against kinetic force

[robust tendon]

It is, yeah. But the extra bit of padding would help and not weigh you down much

[sullen charm]

It's actually useless

[robust tendon]

Maybe not gambeson specifically but perhaps padding made for use with plate

[sullen charm]

That's why by the 15thc even doublets didn't have any padding whatsoever anymore (beside maybe some padding on the shoulders for comfort)

[robust tendon]

Maybe with the best heat treated full plate it would be enough but lower quality munitions plate or brigandine gambeson would help

[sullen charm]

Sources doesn't show that

Or rarely with jacks (worn over maille)

And even then the jacks i'm thinking about aren't padded on the front (where the breastplate is)

[robust tendon]

I dont think they would wear something that a levy who could only afford gambeson would wear under their plate, but probably some arming doublets that are padded

[sullen charm]

Levies were levied specially because they could afford armor and weapons

[robust tendon]

Yeah, but not high quality plate depending on the levy

[sullen charm]

the whole poor ass peasant levy with nothing but a pitchfork need to stop

[robust tendon]

im not saying that

[sullen charm]

Of course not, but that doesn't mean they would wear (or need) a gambeson under it

[robust tendon]

Theyd have gambeson, helmet, maille if they were a bit wealthier

shield and spear usually

depends on period

[sullen charm]

Another thing is that gambeson weren't worn under maille lol

[robust tendon]

What? I can see not under plate

[sullen charm]

if a soldier had both, 99% of the time the maille would be under the gamb

[robust tendon]

But gambeson was specifically made for use under maille as extra protection against sheer force

[sullen charm]

And that's, depending on the period either a shortcut or completely false

[sullen charm]

In fact no, gambeson was specifically made to be used as a standalone armor

[robust tendon]

Some gambeson yeah

[sullen charm]

There's aketons which are barely even padded, prolly more for comfort, that shows in some cases

[robust tendon]

it was originally for maille but some wore it alone because they could not afford maille

[sullen charm]

It was not originally for maille

[robust tendon]

Is that just a misconception because i swear its basically common knowledge that they would wear gambeson under maille or plate

ive never seen like anyone say this

[sullen charm]

It is a misconception

[robust tendon]

This is like 13th century roughly

[robust tendon]

Isnt that the maciejowski bible? May be an artistic liberty

Is there like written sources of what you say?

[sullen charm]

lol

Written sources talk about aketons or tunics

and coupled with art you can be sure that aketon was not a thick ass gambeson

[robust tendon]

aketons were still padded, though.

Im not saying they wore thick gambeson meant for standalone use

But padding at all is what i mean

[sullen charm]

Also no i don't think it's artistic liberty, the whole bible is pretty straightforward and down to earth, would be extremely strange (or convenient?) to have artistic liberty on only that

[sullen charm]

Barely

And probably more for comfort than actual protection

Experiments

Another

Shows the undergarment

[robust tendon]

interesting

[sullen charm]

Here you can see what ppl call aketon today, which is a extremely lightly quilted garment

[robust tendon]

Is it really for comfort rather than protection? If you just had some non quilted clothing there wouldnt be much of a difference, i would think

Its probably lightly quilted because you dont need it as thick as standalone gambeson without maille

[sullen charm]

Now on a similar but different note

Gambeson/padded surcoats over maille

Spain, Germany, France (x2), Spain again

[robust tendon]

was that more common that using just maille? Id assume so

[sullen charm]

Can't really quantify, standalone maille was always used

[robust tendon]

I mean maille without a padded garment over it, but i suppose it is a hard thing to quantify

[sullen charm]

but it just seems that whenever a gambeson and maille were together on someone, the gambeson would be on top

[robust tendon]

yep

id also assume they were perhaps plated, the gambeson or surcoats worn over it for supplemental armor in later periods when you see early plate armor

Like mid to late 13th century ish

[sullen charm]

Yeah I get it, I guess you could safely say so tho, since you don't see surcoats appearing until the late 12th century and even by then "naked" maille was still used

[sullen charm]

That's definitely a possibility when coat of plates appeared
for instance :

" The arming of a German knight as described in "Diu Crone" (ca. 1230) "
(This knightly romance contains a passage instructing a knight on how to arm himself for tournament.)
Original Middle High German text (Scholl 1852, pp. 223-224)

An dem andern morgen
Vil gar unverborgen
Manic helt ze velde san,
Der sin hosen schuohte an,
Dar über sin schellier;
Ein wambeis unde ein collier
Muost er haben dar nach:
Hie mite was ime niht gach;
So muost ein halsperc wesen da bi,
Dar nach zwen knappen oder dri,
Die ime die coifen stricten,
Und das wappen also schicten,
Daz ez im were behende;
Dar nach an dem ende
Gehörte vür die brüst ein blat:
Was er iht an der ritter stat,
Deswär, so muostz da vür:
Des gewan er michel gevüer,
Ob er wolte stechen;
Ouch sol er niht zebrecken,
Ein wambeis sol dar uber sin,
Oder ein wappenroc sidin:
So vüer er wol in ritters schin.

I will not, nor can I, give a full translation of this excerpt, but the order of arming is this:

1. mail chausses, 2) knee cops, 3) gambeson and collar* , 4) hauberk, 5) coif, integral or separate (?) [ventail is tied closed by "two or three valets"?], 6) "plate" on the breast, 7) gambeson OR surcoat.

*gambeson here very most likely refer to the aketon thing I mentioned above

[robust tendon]

Knee cops are smaller plates right? also around when you see coats of plates being used

[sullen charm]

yeah

[robust tendon]

plate on the breast certainly seems like something akin to coats of plates

[sullen charm]

basically proto-poleyns

[robust tendon]

but it isnt plates, so maybe its one solid plate?

or perhaps a translation thing, idk

[sullen charm]

Either that or something that'd be comparable to a cardiophylax, which I recall a source for joust mentioning that aswell but you'd have to trust me on that cuz I can't remember the source

[robust tendon]

Not familiar with cardiophylax

[sullen charm]

Yeah you can't really grasps on these sort of differences when on this genre of sources unfortunately

[sullen charm]

cardio = heart
phylae = guard/protection

[robust tendon]

Itd be strange to just have one plate instead of enough to cover the torso enough

[sullen charm]

remember that's 13thc

(the text I mean, not the reenactors)

[robust tendon]

In reference to the earlier source, i mean

[sullen charm]

It's just quite early for "real" breastplates

[tight sand]

damn that looks nice

do we have recreation of it ?

[sullen charm]

Wait a sec

[sullen charm]

something like that would be relatively close

[tight sand]

damn i love the style

btw big thx for photos

[sullen charm]

np

[robust tendon]

was chain horse harness even a real thing

[sullen charm]

yes

[robust tendon]

thought it was just caparisons as the closest thing to that until later plate barding

[sullen charm]

I mean yeah that's what caparisons are

[robust tendon]

guess it depended on wealth, full harness like that gotta be ridiculously expensive

[sullen charm]

sometimes even with their own surcoats how cute

[robust tendon]

I mean like actually protective, a cloth caparison wouldnt do much

[sullen charm]

Also full plate barding for an horse could trully be craaaaazzzyyyyy expensive and cumbersome to even transport, only the wealthiest would have one

[robust tendon]

I guess they’d usually wear a caparison over chain horse barding, hence why it isnt really seen in iconography

[sullen charm]

but to answer, yes, horses did have armored caparisons/barding (maille if one of them)

[robust tendon]

only like, higher nobility like counts and dukes and the wealthiest of knights would have had that id assume

[sullen charm]

Yeah, because think about it, a warhose can be pretty massive so you'd have to cover him and you'd also have to transport that shit while not in battle, so have some kind of suite

However; shaffrons would be more available. I believe in the burgundian ordonnances (or maybe the french one) the gendarmes (mounted heavy cav) are expected to have a shaffron on their horse with plumes

[robust tendon]

gendarmes are essentially men at arms right, not nobility like knights would be

[sullen charm]

in terms of maille horse armor

[robust tendon]

yeah gendarmes are often seen with horse armor in museum sets

[sullen charm]

Gendarmes literally means man-at-arms so

All knights are men-at-arms, not all men-at-arms are knight

[robust tendon]

yeah, but when i say men at arms i mean common professional soldiers and not landed nobility

Despite that a knight would be called that at times

[sullen charm]

the common professional soldier wouldn't have a very expensive horse if at all, let alone armor

[robust tendon]

Definitely

[sullen charm]

Again going back to the burgundian ordonnance, the mounted archers are required to have a horse that is [number] expensive (I forgot the actual price) because they weren't combat horses but transport, to ride from a point A to point B on the battlefield, dismount, and shoot arrows

[robust tendon]

Thats an odd tactic

I dunno why you wouldnt just use mounted archers a la the mongols instead of having them dismount

Other than, i guess that is a hard skill to train and its easier to shoot on foot

[sullen charm]

The bow used didn't really work for that id guess

[robust tendon]

Was it longbows then?

[sullen charm]

However, the crossbowmen also had such horses and might have been expected to shoot from horseback since they are called cranequinier, and a cranequin is a tool that help you reload a crossbow with crank, notably on horseback

[sullen charm]

Longbows / straight bows yeah

[robust tendon]

yeah i can see why they had such tactics then

Id bet if you are an archer group and are expected to have a horse and can fire from it, you’d do that

[sullen charm]

(Burgundian archers)

Here I believe gendarmes and cranequinier

another burgundian archer

[stuck pelican]

Head maille, foot protection, more slimmer gear

I feel like this is older equipment than what we have

Maille foot protection

Stated it was 15th century, somebody fact check it!

These are customs, but id love to see just upper leg, or just knee protection

[turbid shadow]

❌

that thing looks horrible

[sullen charm]

christ no

[stuck pelican]

god bless these fact checkers

[vocal vale]

something a bit more specific than "no"

the pattern of the abdomen articulation is historically inaccurate, looks too storm-troopery. articulation like that would come from a plackart over the breastplate, which is the little arrowhead shape on the front of 1400s cuirasses that comes to a point near the sternum. if that articulate looking point did move, unlike a plackart, the bottom wouldnt overlap the top and it would leave you open or awkardly pressed against

the pattern of the tassets is too modern, they dont usually have those little edges that curve inward nor are they that shape - they are often pointed or more shark-fin shaped, and attached by straps to the faulds. another important factor, the tassets are attached directly to the breastplate, and do not come down from the faulds nor are they attached properly - it basically protects the region faulds would protect but worse.

the groin guard would not look at all like that. designated groin guards (often exaggerating the wearer's... endowment) would have been strapped under the waist of the cuirass (tassets / faulds region), and were largely put into use during the 1500s. usually your hauberk would protect you well enough down there, while still allowing articulation. some cuirasses protect the groin without funny little groin flaps, like the elongated faulds of typical milanese harnesses or the plate skirt of kastenbrust armor from germany

overall, it looks more like something bashford dean would've conceptualized during ww1. based off of the quintessential concepts of knightly plate, but modernized in ways that were more for a gun and less for a sword

[sullen charm]

tl;dr : no

[inland laurel]

Here to shill Covered Breastplates

[sullen charm]

Giorneas over breastplates but under placard

[obsidian sun]

My Armor, lacking chainmail loosely 14th-15th century

[severe mauve]

PLEASE TELL ME WHERE YOU GET THIS

[obsidian sun]

The cuisses and Vambraces are from my mother the rest from medieval collectables

[severe mauve]

damn thats sick asf thank you

[obsidian sun]

No problem!

[fleet junco]

its good but everything is just a bit off

[obsidian sun]

Sadly so I'll eventually work and tailor it to myself but it's not completely uncomfortable to wear

[vocal vale]

the exaggerated hounskull and the low plackart are the only things that stick out to me, overall pretty swag

[sullen charm]

Low placard is typical of early 15th century italy

shows in france too ..

[vocal vale]

really? i feel like a lot of milanese armor i see has quite high plackarts

if you could post a few images i'd love to know more

[sullen charm]

Also another case of this

[vocal vale]

interesting

are there any advantages for lower or higher plackarts? easier to move in one or the other, perhaps?

[vocal vale]

i love this

[sullen charm]

they just started with the placard being this low

and kinda just made it higher and higer with time

End of the century

[vocal vale]

fascinating

that last image is beautiful

[sullen charm]

tehe

oops low qual

more late italian

[obsidian sun]

it helps alot with mobility and layers armor around the stomach

[tiny valve]

i think it's more like a fantasy chestplate

[sullen charm]

It's an extremely poor repro

[tiny valve]

you think?

[sullen charm]

yes

[tiny valve]

because the reason i thought that was an fantasy armour is because of this
or this

[vocal vale]

the one on the right is noticeably LESS fantasy than the other but it is a little wonky still

[sullen charm]

they are just extremely poor attempt at historical armor

even worse than your average larp gear

[fleet junco]

add splint

ignore larp

again

[sullen charm]

Not the correct period for that

[tiny valve]

k i understand the difference between poor reproduction and fantasy armour

[fleet junco]

what is the period again?

1530 or something?

[vocal vale]

1430-1480

[fleet junco]

zamn!

im not used to later versions of armor

[turbid shadow]

good shit

[vocal vale]

handgonne > arquebus

love them

[sullen charm]

textless

[vocal vale]

🙏🙏

@fleet junco

[fleet junco]

im just joking okay?

[vocal vale]

Ok..

[sullen charm]

what seem like to be cuir bouilli limbs around 1450s but it's also quite all'antica-ish so eh

[sullen charm]

these minis are so cool

[vocal vale]

are those from perry miniatures or somewhere else?

[vocal vale]

this is dope

[sullen charm]

I have no idea lole

[turbid shadow]

petition to make half sword 1430-1490

[sullen charm]

1440-1490

imo

[turbid shadow]

honestly

would be a fair trade

I don't think we are missing anything major in 1430

unless if I'm forgetting something

[sullen charm]

I'm not thinking of anything except maybe the occasional bascinet that survived this long

but good riddance imo, imagine a bascinet next to a 1480 plate

would look a bit strange

[turbid shadow]

I believe ivan said something about how they might add stuff from the early 1410 but for poor folks to use

unless if I misunderstood him

which is likely

[sullen charm]

would be a bit dumb to be honest

[turbid shadow]

I can see where your coming from

imagine seeing someone in the fancy ass cool looking sigismund harness fighting a silly man with a bascinet

hence why it would be cooler if we got great bascinets rather than normal out dated bascinets

[sullen charm]

also why would anyone buy outdated gear

even if he's on the poorside there's plenty of helmets from his time that are affordable

[rancid trellis]

A couple of pics of myself and friends at 13c. English reenactment. Was told this would be a good spot to post these 🙂

[vocal vale]

that's awesome!

[vocal vale]

the second and third pictures here are my favorites

[rancid trellis]

thank you 🙂

[lyric light]

im assuming no thrusting, i wouldnt feel safe with such big vison slits

[rancid trellis]

we only thrust to the stomach in our rule set

[lyric light]

fair

[tiny valve]

how is it to be in those armour, do you feel comfy, closed or anything else?

[rancid trellis]

in the full integrated maille you do lose a small amount of mobility in terms of shoulder rotation, but you can freely run/get up/do jumping jacks if you felt so inclined

its about an extra 3 stone of weight distributed around your body

not light but not weighed to the floor ygm

with the fully closed helmets you can barely hear and youll deafen yourself if you try to shout, but apart from that youve got almost full mobility

[sullen charm]

Only shit I had this pic saved for a while now

[rancid trellis]

damn fr haha

[lyric light]

ahaha ive seen that one before too now that you mention it

i remember the nice swords

[rancid trellis]

its from my friends instagram if i can post the link?

[sullen charm]

yeah lol

[rancid trellis]

holy shid haha that was this year

heugh battery tourney

i was there that day thats mad that you know us haha

https://www.instagram.com/thomas_the_valiant/?hl=en -- https://www.instagram.com/henry_de_lewes1295/?hl=en

theres mine and my friends reenactment insta for those inclined

[sullen charm]

of course there's a knight with a pkm(p?)

nvm it's neither

[lyric light]

lmao

[rancid trellis]

hehe that was at a community car show and there were british reenactors there so we took a couple pics with em

theres videos of our combats on our yt

https://www.youtube.com/@vanguardreenactment

[old sky]

Anyone got that pic of that sword/pick/mace/spear?

[sullen charm]

?

[old sky]

Yes!

What's it called?

[sullen charm]

sword

lol

[old sky]

Bruh

[sullen charm]

Or estoc if you will, but designed for specific tourney/duel purpose

[rancid trellis]

do you have a reference for that

damn

[sullen charm]

It looks horrifying

[old sky]

Was it actually used?

[sullen charm]

Yes

[old sky]

In combat?

[sullen charm]

No idea

No

For tournaments yes

[rancid trellis]

what text is that from

[sullen charm]

Otherwise I’ve not seen 1 piece of evidence.

Can't really know for sure, a lot of these weapon prototype things you see in manuals are often just prototypes

But if it was used, it would have been exclusively during tourney/duels

[sullen charm]

Where’s the axe head wtf?

[old sky]

What are it's disadvantages?

[sullen charm]

Real heavy

shut up

[rancid trellis]

probs expensive and not fit for any one purpose

[sullen charm]

Compared to a regular sword

[rancid trellis]

youre probs better off with the 3 seperate weapons

[sullen charm]

By trying to do everything at once it kinda does nothing

[sullen charm]

This too

[sullen charm]

This, tbh

That guard on the blade makes it pointless

[sullen charm]

(And that's exactly what they did in actual warfare)

[rancid trellis]

i cant imagine it would work well as a sword with how much stuff is fuckin with the weight

[sullen charm]

Shield, spear and an axe if you’re lucky

Silence

No

You're not saying anything useful

Exactly

A man at arms would have his lance, sword, dagger, pollaxe(s) on his horse and mace at his saddle

[old sky]

I feel like adding just the pick instead of the cross guard would not add that much wait, only cost I suppose

[sullen charm]

According to burgundian ordonnances

Be an infantry though

More risk more reward

Then you don't need a bazillion weapons

No they just need like 3

have a polearm, sword, dagger

and shield depending on your role

Rather have a shield over a dagger

[rancid trellis]

not so much worried about the total weight of the sword (thought that is to be considered), but moreso the weight distribution. you want the weight as close to the crossguard as possible with a sword so you can manuever it without having to fight against it

[sullen charm]

Even if it’s just a buckler

Depends if you're even allowed to

Why wouldn’t I be?

Ordonnances

[rancid trellis]

swords are expensive

[sullen charm]

Not really

[sullen charm]

Fr

It just depends on which sword

[rancid trellis]

why spend money on a alrge piece of iron when you can have a spear mostly made of wood that does the same job but better

[sullen charm]

Infantry carries swords all the time

[sullen charm]

just have both ?

[sullen charm]

My thoughts exactly

[rancid trellis]

ig it depends on the period

[sullen charm]

Or an axe with a spike on it

[old sky]

Actually that makes me wonder, how expensive were sword back then, could your average Joe afford one?

[sullen charm]

No

Why have only a long spear that's good in only one situation

You’d need to be in a craft

[rancid trellis]

everyone back in the day would have a woodchopping axe

[sullen charm]

define average joe

[sullen charm]

Farmer peasant

[old sky]

Yeah

[sullen charm]

Not asking you stop talking

Explained it correctly though

Peasantry ? No they prolly couldn't afford swords but also don't have to

They weren't sent at war

[rancid trellis]

the sword is primarily a sign of class and a duelling weapon (prior to 14c), as opposed to a peasant who can pick up a point stick and get you from 10ft away behind his mates

[sullen charm]

But anyway, like I said, if you’re in a trade, more than likely you’re living more comfortable and could afford to have one.

[old sky]

I see

[sullen charm]

peasants didn't go to war

Viking Berserkers liked swords, because more weapon to kill people with.

[rancid trellis]

ik ik landowners etc just generalising

the untrained masses i should say

[sullen charm]

They had like a 8 month serving period pretty sure

🤦‍♂️

[sullen charm]

You don't send untrained guys to war don't be silly

That’s the 11th century though

Yeah but you train them, that’s kinda the point.

the ppl you levy and send to war SHOULD know how to use their weapons and afford them

[rancid trellis]

again, depends on the period, but 'training' all but alludes to knowing how to use the weapon. mercenaries and knights were certainly trained to the highest degree, but there was a point in time where laymen were called up to serve

[sullen charm]

Battle of Hastings no?

Kinda had no choice when William came back around

From the east

[sullen charm]

and the ones called to serve weren't piss poor peasants, they were expected to know how to fight and take care of their own equipment

On the topic of infantry equipement, here's something from a french ordonnance

the bowmen shall have the sallets without
visors, bows and sheaves, and the passot swords
somewhat long-ish, stiff and sharp that are called
bastard swords; and if they want to carry the
bucklers, there would be nothing wrong with that.
And they shall have medium daggers, with their
rondels not too high.

I’d argue that if you know you’re at war, you’d like get your shit straight and learn how to fight better.

Self preservation and all that

those who carry lances shall have visored
sallets and gauntlets, and passot swords moderately
long, stiff and very sharp. And that they lances be of
the length of the lances of arms, [but] that they
should not be so big; and almost all smooth, except
that they have at the bottom a small bit of a notch
and a small arrest of ½ finger of height, behind the
notch, to give them shape. And the iron must be
sharp and a bit long, albeit beefy.

So doable in like 2 months

, it seems to him that those who carry vouges
should have them moderately broad and that they
have somewhat of a belly, and also that they be
sharp and with a good point. And that those
guisarmiers have visored sallets, gauntlets and large
daggers, without swords.

[rancid trellis]

i agree bro, after a certain point in time there were ordonnances for soldiers to be equipped with a standard of armour.

[sullen charm]

Ordonnances are good for equipment regulation, but even during the 13th century the ones that were levied to war weren't peasants

They were soldiers, of reserve if you will

[sullen charm]

That being said, after which point in time did it matter? It was more of spear and shield fighting style until like (pretty sure ) the 14th century

[rancid trellis]

ik farmers werent called up to fight, as they had the important job of farming, but i find it hard to say that the reserves were trained soldiers

[sullen charm]

Exactly

You think so many people died on Stamford bridge by 1 dude because they were trained?

Jesus

this chat is giving me a headache i'm out

[rancid trellis]

also heavily debated but thats another can of worms lol

oke doke

[sullen charm]

I wonder what he did to like fight off 30+ people

[rancid trellis]

small bridge, probs exaggerated numbers

[sullen charm]

Could be

Could’ve taken drugs too

They were vikings after all

[rancid trellis]

who knows, but even if he took out 5 men before he fell itd be impressive

[sullen charm]

For sure

You’d start to get tired after your third

Even if it’s clean one hit swings, you’re still swinging an axe / sword

[sullen charm]

Beautiful

[sacred cove]

Child soldier?

[vagrant charm]

I love period fantasy

I think this is a bit to late for halfsword tho

[lament valley]

Are there 2 handed swords in the game (or planned for the future)?
To be a bit more specific I’m asking more about swords like the spada dua mani rather than zwei handers as I know those were more use for fighting groups/ pike breaking

[vocal vale]

yes

they come later, when enemies get more armored

[lament valley]

Awesome

[unkempt rampart]

That helmet is sick

[vocal vale]

its the only one i've ever seen

probably just a weird artist choice

[unkempt rampart]

Where is this?

This looks incredible

[vocal vale]

St. George's Cathedral, Wiener Neustadt

Maximilian I's tomb

all the people in the statues are intended to be his ancestors

[lyric light]

ive seen another with a more hounskull shape

[robust tendon]

eh not really hounskull

more like a great bascinet

but also not really since it doesnt look attached to the cuirass like a great basc would be

[fleet junco]

Kevlar vest when

[old sky]

I would really like to know, what haircuts were popular in the medieval era? both for men and woman.

[acoustic pagoda]

you get it at 120k same with the M4

[fleet junco]

Lets go

[stuck pelican]

Bald 💪

Honestly I feel like they would keep their hair all short for men

[rich totem]

bowl cut :)

[rich totem]

generally it depends though, the medieval period was a very long period, and fashion changed a lot, as well as there being a very many cultures in europe alone that influenced hair and dress

non-historical references but

[sullen charm]

doesnt seem too outlandish too me tbh, pretty good in fact

[rich totem]

short hair was certainly common but like the Renaissance and 19th century men with long hair was quite fashionable and had the benefit of being practical

[rich totem]

these are mostly about headwear but feature hair styles

though with it being the medieval period a lot of people would be wearing hats

[stuck pelican]

1540

(I WANT THE HELMET)

[vocal vale]

helmets more similar to that one exist in the 1400s

[stuck pelican]

Late 14th - Late 15th Century
Idk the exact date, LOVE THE HELMETS...

[stuck pelican]

Why'd they stop using these beauties

[vocal vale]

which beauties

[hallow hearth]

variant of bouche shield

[stuck pelican]

1570

[vocal vale]

one with a rondel on the back and some cool markings

[hallow hearth]

Make jackchins

[stuck pelican]

Same thing as sly and sam

[vocal vale]

YES

[vocal vale]

@stuck pelican

[stuck pelican]

Says "1490"

[stuck pelican]

The damn helmets 🤤

[hallow hearth]

you might like this

[vocal vale]

which ones

[stuck pelican]

The like style in posting

Sadly theyre more.. 14th century

[vocal vale]

these??

[stuck pelican]

Yes

And above

[vocal vale]

thoses 16th century

[stuck pelican]

Shit'

What century were these?

[vocal vale]

they were used for quite a while

[stuck pelican]

And this..

Why'd they have these sometimes

[vocal vale]

i think late 14th and perservering until early 16th

[stuck pelican]

I want one of these with the flaps

[vocal vale]

looks like a lance rest

[vocal vale]

those were for fastening the helmet to the cuirass

[stuck pelican]

Sickkk

[vocal vale]

to prevent your skull from slamming around in the helmet too much

[stuck pelican]

I want this

[vocal vale]

similar yet very unique helmet used for foot combat tournaments

[stuck pelican]

or this helmet

[hallow hearth]

We need to be able to mounth bouche shields

[vocal vale]

agree

[stuck pelican]

Im guessing these helmets wouldnt be used at all in combat except for jousting or something

[vocal vale]

yes, for jousting

way too hard to breathe in

although paintings from the time showed knights in combat using frogmouths, likely because they were just like "oh this is the knightliest helm i know of, im gonna draw them in those"

[stuck pelican]

Ik we got bevors, but i want gorgets

[stuck pelican]

bue with red horse

red with blue horse

[sullen charm]

that set up was heavily modified with composites

[stuck pelican]

ah

Hello Bossk the medieval boss

[sullen charm]

hewwo

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24814 @stuck pelican read more here

[vocal vale]

i knew it was from the met

thought i saw it earlier

big forehead

[stuck pelican]

I feel like whenever im a deputy (i have funds) and get to learn some medieval combat ill get myself half kit of plate armor or such and go into those like recreational fights

[sullen charm]

aight

[vocal vale]

reenactment you mean

i've been wanting to get into that too

[stuck pelican]

Heard it costs a ton to get a full plate suit

I might go for those lower end reenactments, i want a like pole arm war hammer

[sullen charm]

You might want to learn more and use proper terms before

not being mean or anything btw

[stuck pelican]

Yeah, i know how uh....

Medieval fans are..

Im trying to get the hang of it lol!

[sullen charm]

It's just that it will also be easier for you

[hallow hearth]

we take things seriously.....

[sullen charm]

Looking for sources and such

[vocal vale]

some are pretty VILE when it comes to dealing with less knowledgeable people

[stuck pelican]

Yep..

Lets get out of here

[sullen charm]

for instance, "full plate suit" = harness

and "pole arm war hammer" = pollaxe but I wont go into detail about this..

[cloud pawn]

poleaxe* ☝️ 🤓

[vocal vale]

pollaxe is a weird spelling from the time of the medievalers

[cloud pawn]

Oh

well the more you know

[prisma birch]

squidward helmet

[stuck pelican]

Why is it just... called Harness?

[stuck pelican]

Im guessing it will just be called warhammer

[vocal vale]

poleaxes have hammers on them

that would've been, like, THE polearm in the day

that and halberds

[stuck pelican]

so polearm is hammer head

[stuck pelican]

poleaxe is axe head

[vocal vale]

no, a polearm is a catch-all term

halberds, spears, poleaxes, glaives, pikes, big forks

[stuck pelican]

So a general terms

[stuck pelican]

Then.. What will be the hammer term of it?

[vocal vale]

poleaxes have an axe, a spear, and a hammer, halberds have a "catch" blade, a "chop" blade, and a spear at the end

[vocal vale]

a poleaxe

[stuck pelican]

Sledgehammer? hehe

Huh..

But it has no "axe" to it, just a blunt side?

[rich totem]

even a long stick is technically a polearm :)

[vocal vale]

no, it has an axe

its an axe, spear, and hammer

the hammer is the part that is the hammer

[stuck pelican]

What if its just a hammer on a long pole

No axe, no stabby bits

[vocal vale]

i've never seen one of those outside of fantasy

im sure they exist but they would've probably been kind of niche

[rich totem]

you can find polehammers but theyve got pick heads on the reverse

[vocal vale]

oh yeah i forgot

that's called a bec de corbin

[rich totem]

yeee and usually have a thrusting tip on the top

[vocal vale]

i was thinking about those like an hour ago, cant believe that didnt cross my mind

[rich totem]

GENERALLY if youre wealthy enough to afford a polehammer/pollaxe youre going to pay for the spikes

[stuck pelican]

Thats what i love

[rich totem]

they also add weight to the head which is advantageous for polearms used for cleaving and chopping

[stuck pelican]

Now this would be considered a war hammer, correct?

[rich totem]

i believe so ya

[vocal vale]

yes

[rich totem]

if its not a polearm its usually a warhammer/war axe

[stuck pelican]

Sick.. Thanks for the help guys 💜

Before i do, how long were they usally?

[rich totem]

btw sam u probably know this better than me but is there a distinct difference between halberds and pollaxes or is it just etymology?

polearms of all kinds could really be any length that went out of 'swingable with one hand' territory

[vocal vale]

@rich totem

[rich totem]

ahhh ok ty!! idk how i missed that image

[stuck pelican]

Why were halberts... So weirdly shaped?

[vocal vale]

halberd = axe kinda blade, stabby little "hook" kinda blade, long spear tip
poleaxe = more traditional axe blade, little meat tenderizer hammerhead, thinner spear tip

[vocal vale]

the shapes worked

[rich totem]

if you mean why theyre kind of flowy, halberds are generally used for kind of... reaching around opponents in armor

you can hook them behind joints

[vocal vale]

good against horsemen as well, used in formation it would've been deadly against cavalry charges

you can brace the spearhead to stab through an approaching force, you can use the hook thing on the back to pull riders off their horse, and you can use the axe blade as a general swingy implement

[tropic torrent]

Good chance to mention we need billhooks! And messers!

[vagrant charm]

Pole axes weren’t just axe hammer spear, they could have been hammer hook spear, there was a version which also had an axe a hook and a spear which was popular in England in later years. They sometimes didn’t have spear heads at all.

They’re more kinds but they had a lot of varieties

[stuck pelican]

billhook

[rich totem]

yaa but billhooks are usually a little shorter and flimsier

polearms like halberds and poleaxes and pollhamers are typically (at least in the timeframe which the game takes place) somewhat expensive and restricted weapons

halberds are reinforced handled (i cant remember what the actual term for the reinforcement is)

also billhooks were (as far as i know) modified farming tools, in the same vein as war scythes

[vagrant charm]

Bill hooks could have been just as long or sturdy as any other pole arm

Length on pole arms really varied between who used them and which part of Europe

It also came down to preference of the user

[vagrant charm]

Also you can just call a pole hammer a pole axe

But the distinction is sometimes useful

[inland laurel]

Padded Cloth over Maille

[gentle plaza]

Armored fighting sword

Another one

[limber pike]

That shit is goofy

Would be a cool thing to find in game

[gentle plaza]

They’re very specialized

There’s also historic references to even crazier ones

[old sky]

thanks for the references! do you know what werepeasants haircuts like?

[rich totem]

unfortunately i dont have anything specifically on the peasantry, however id assume theyre quite similar/ imitations of the haircuts of the gentry

shears would be common if you lived somewhere with livestock, and a good shearsman could easily substitute stock fur for human hair 😆

and otherwise id assume youd be able to find a hairdresser in larger cities

[old sky]

from what i see medium long hair was quite popular with men

[rich totem]

shorter hair on men is generally a more modern fashion ideologue, men having medium or even long hair was quite common up until the early to mid 18th century

[rich totem]

even then it never exactly went out of style

[old sky]

yes i see

[rich totem]

not to say short hair was uncommon of course

[old sky]

from the pictures i assume every woman is married because her hair is covered

do you have any references for unmarried woman haircuts?

[rich totem]

i believe in certain periods it was actually common for many women in christian cultures to wear wimples, regardless of marital status, i may be wrong though

[old sky]

I see, well i suppose it depends

[rich totem]

it wouldnt be uncommon to see women with braids, and curled hair, obviously typically quite long

[old sky]

yes i see

[rich totem]

keep in mind the medieval period did last for a very long time relatively, styles and the such changed drastically over short time periods

[old sky]

lets just say early 15th century

[inland laurel]

You know even trying to limit down to West Europe is still going involve dozens of different Cultures right?

[rich totem]

its a little harder to say what the peasantry would wear as they usually wouldnt have their portraits painted as the gentry or clergy would, lacking money and social status to do so, as well as the fact the paintings may not have survived if they were made

[old sky]

well of course, im just trying to get some approximate references for drawing and stuff

[rich totem]

my favorite is the pious bowl cut

because it looks very silly

[old sky]

yeah. From what i looked its pretty difficult to find actual historical references

[old sky]

agreed haha

[rich totem]

generally i believe its assumed that in a lot of western christian cultures workers such as farmers would typically have their hair cut short, and just like everything else in the medieval, everything was highly restricted by class and social status

though it would be practical as well, since longer hair is significantly harder to maintain, and when you have to work all day its hard to do so, and you've better things to spend your money on

[old sky]

that sound believable

I've never thought of it that way but it makes sense

[rich totem]

generally though? its most likely that itd be up to personal preference

id recommend looking up just a general catchall of "15th century portraits" to see the kinds of hair the gentry would usually have

though youll probably notice they wore hats A LOT

[old sky]

haha yeah, like more than half of the portraits you sent have some sort of head coverage

would it be worn at home?

[rich totem]

it certainly could be, but as far as i know it was considered rude to wear a hat inside someones home in many cultures

doubly so any kind of church or monastary

im not sure if that applies to other buildings like pubs or the such though

[old sky]

how were pubs looked at in the medieval era?

[rich totem]

im actually not really sure tbh, id assume similarly to how they are now, the way alcohol effects people hasnt changed much as far as im aware

[old sky]

yep but ive heard that if you stayed up in the streets after the sun has set there was a high chance you could get arrested

[stuck pelican]

This is why I’d use it

[sullen charm]

I see that once again I have caused beef over pollaxe naming tehe

excellent..

[stuck pelican]

I mean. Their alcohol would be closest to like moonshine for poor people I feel like

[sullen charm]

me & who

[turbid shadow]

Me

[lyric light]

wide guards

big sword

1400s armour

based

[halcyon tide]

I was messing around with the CoaMaker

[spare cloak]

That’s really nice. I’m going to have to check out the website

[vocal vale]

one of the late game sallets

[vocal vale]

polearm classification

[stuck pelican]

ALSO THE BARDICHE SHLULD HE BIGGER… THEY ARE 6 - 7 FEET… THERE WAS A SHORT SCOTTISH ONE WHICJ WAS 5 FEET..

ERMMMM ALSO BILLHOOK 🤤

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1043854764095582260/1176756256216727603/ea3c824ae9b53877caafe3aa6db35bd5.png?ex=657006aa&is=655d91aa&hm=e4c4f750d57b249067aef61f730d5b17ecee6fdf6b458ccabb42ad8e30ccfa43&

i stole this

This is cool

I don’t care it’s not practical at all

[vocal vale]

it's practical just not for actual life-or-death situations

[dull geode]

practical for fun events

[vocal vale]

dope shield design

what a fashionista

[dull geode]

armor for the joust, mid 15th century

[old sky]

Question. Does anyone have a pic of a guy in pauldrons with raised arms forward

With large pauldrons I might add

[torpid urchin]

Like a heil

[old sky]

well

yeah

you could say it like that

[sullen charm]

do not

[stuck pelican]

Do.

[sullen charm]

not

[stuck pelican]

Do…

[sullen charm]

https://tenor.com/view/paul-landers-rammstein-hast-gif-4997995

[upper seal]

I doubt but is this historical?

[lyric light]

baseball helmet looking helmet

but no not to my knowledge

do sometimes see scale aventails though

[upper seal]

One of the most neckwear of neckwear

[dull geode]

similar helmets appear in manuscripts i believe

[hybrid heath]

No, it’s not. First of
How are you gonna move your head sure you probably could but it would move up and block your vision, which brings me to the second part, eye slit, WAY too big, I could just slide a dagger or sword right in there, or a moderately good archer/crossbowman could just get an easy kill on you.
Witch brings me to the third thing it could’ve been; for cavalry/horse back, no it comes back to head movement, as someone that rides horses you need your head to look around or something like a guy with a Bull hook will just rip you off your horse cause you couldn’t look around you

Also if you had the money to get that why wouldn’t you just get better mobility with a Gorget and or bevor

[dull geode]

i also wouldn't judge a helmet based on neck articulation or its eyeslit size, generally speaking
helmets with open faces or larger gaps between neck protection and the helmet itself, and helmets without neck articulation were also definitely a thing used on the battlefield and in tournaments

[dull geode]

a gorget or bevor would cost more because they are articulated, a solid piece of steel is cheaper than multiple that are riveted together

[upper seal]

I was doubting but I thought about it being an italian experimental gorget for the lower class from the 1400-1415

[dull geode]

it may be something like that

[hybrid heath]

Yeah, I was also thinking that, but this clearly isn’t for the poors looking at the rest of their kit, and as a fencer i would say head mobility is one of the more important things and it just looks like it would get in the way

[dull geode]

it looks like he's wearing a scale aventail and a gambeson

not much of this would suggest a wealthy soldier in my opinion

[upper seal]

The whole squad in that picture look off

Except

Those two knight man

[sullen charm]

I've seen it in some art iicr

[sullen charm]

Not the correct period for those champ

Except for "gorget" but before the early 1500 it just means maille standard

[sullen charm]

Lol what

tf you on about

[ancient pivot]

on the re-enactment group's instagram page they say it's based off of a manuscript but idk what exactly the source is, or how accurate it is to the manuscript

[sullen charm]

Do they say which ms it is ?

I remember seeing it but I would be incapable of finding it back

[ancient pivot]

sadly not

actually, @pliant forum didn't realise you were in here, you can probably say more about it than me lol

[sullen charm]

could you send me the post please

[tepid edge]

I seriously thought it was AI

[ancient pivot]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwsjkkHNijr/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=N2ViNmM2MDRjNw==

genzdarmes1415

Jacques, un gros varlet bien équipé et bien lourd. Sa protection de tête a été forgée par @rasmus.d.rasmussen , elle est basée sur une interprétation d'une enluminure du début du XVeme siècle. Il s'agit de la combinaison d'une forme primitive de armet avec un imposant gorgerin. Pour apporter une protection supplémentaire, il a enfilé un camail à...

Likes

583

Instagram

[upper seal]

Its just not your average reeanactment group

[sullen charm]

Yeah it's better than that

[ancient pivot]

I tried looking on both the helmet owner's and the armourer's pages as well but couldn't find anything specific about the manuscripts

[upper seal]

Agreed

[sullen charm]

Have you tried looking at manuscriptminiature.com ?

I can't rn

[ancient pivot]

found this but they look more like those early frogmouth great helms

[sullen charm]

Yeah defo

doubt it's that one

[vocal vale]

i've seen similar baseball helmet looking headwear but i've never seen an elongated bevor like that

says its an early armet, i'll look into that

i am not sure the exact source on the helmet, but considering the baseball headwear i mentioned appears in italian art, the instagram page linked describes the helmet as early italian, and the art here is depicting an early italian armet, i can say it's likely italian!

[sullen charm]

Might be from a fiore manuscript

[vocal vale]

exactly what i was thinking

something similar

all of those are from 1410-1420, so right in the timeframe of those reenactors

[vocal vale]

@upper seal

[stuck pelican]

These helmets look sick but i don't think we can ger them :(

[copper nova]

I did just find another variation of it

[stuck pelican]

dragon scales rahh

Honestly

it looks better than that weird egg british helmet

[copper nova]

Ik but more the actual helmet

[stuck pelican]

if we can find a 1430 one

we can prob get it

or like really close to 1430

[copper nova]

Yeah no idea where thats from i just saw the picture and remembered this convo

[stuck pelican]

Same

[vocal vale]

thank you for this

[vagrant charm]

I love that helm

[torpid urchin]

Great bascinet my beloved

[stuck pelican]

NO EGG!

[vagrant charm]

1430-1440s English armor 🔛🔝

Except kasten brust

[vocal vale]

i have an undying love for these babies

[vagrant charm]

Kasten brust definitely my favorite

[vocal vale]

agree

plus all the stylistic variations on bicoque helmets i love

[vagrant charm]

I love the oculars on these bicoque

[vocal vale]

i remember seeing a cool pattern drawing of that kind

let me scrounge it up

cant find it, sorry

on a better note, i found a PDF copy of "Dizionari terminologici. Boccia Armi Difensive dal Medioevo all'Eta Moderna", an italian armor book i've been trying to track down

[vagrant charm]

Armor from 1430-1460 jus the best imo

[stuck pelican]

Eh... Not to me

I do like that spaulder thing with the disks tho

[vagrant charm]

I like the rondels on helmets you see on kasten brust and the longer faulds

Jus looks really cool imo

[small moss]

Source on this first picture?

[small moss]

Would also like a source link on this too

[robust tendon]

great bascinet

scale(?) aventail

Another great bascinet

from a mount and blade mod

[spring heath]

example of gun knights i think are historical?

[bright token]

How about some brigandine reference? 😄

Small plates and large plates brigandine :]

[sullen charm]

Anglos kastenbrust real??!!??

[sullen charm]

this one ? (nvm i misread and thought you were looking for one)

[sullen charm]

Source for the first one (1420-1430, Italy)

[sullen charm]

forgor that one

[safe nacelle]

bascinets with their appropriate visors, the one in this image is the hounskull

[vagrant charm]

Don’t have any sources for them, sorry

[vagrant charm]

Found this if it helps https://www.themorgan.org/collection/medieval-and-renaissance/manuscript/260358

[short ice]

1550-70 Italian Flamberge zweihander and Flamberge dagger

[stuck pelican]

Claymore

1400 to 1700

[smoky topaz]

Feels like cultural appropriation to call an Italian sword a german name

[rich totem]

isnt flamberge from a french word?

or am i dumb

[safe nacelle]

there were Italian and German variants respectively no?

[safe nacelle]

cannot have a medieval game without a claymore

[smoky topaz]

then he called it a french and german name

zweihander

flamberge

someone call the PC police!

[rich totem]

the italo-german zweihander montante flamberge longsword

known across ALL realms

[smoky topaz]

medieval sword ends all racism

[short ice]

thats literally what it the sword is blud. its a flamberge zweihander, from italy

[smoky topaz]

someone doesn't know sarcasm when they read it

mr. smoople

if that IS your real name

[sullen charm]

Just say montante or greatsword

[sullen charm]

Claymore actually refers to baskethilt swords iicr !

[stuck pelican]

Basket hilt? So a more curved upwards hilt?

Also what is iirc

[sullen charm]

iirc = if i can recall

[sullen charm]

basket hilt

[stuck pelican]

oh. Those are sick too id like to use something like that

Maybe a fencing move

[sullen charm]

I mean "claymore" actually refers to these, not the greatswords

[lapis hamlet]

2 Handed Mace.

[sullen charm]

a mimir

[stuck pelican]

@sullen charm Why did they make pommels so big?

[vagrant charm]

Iirc to be a counter weight or hand stopper

[stuck pelican]

I heard they were also used as like…. Mini maces

I saw images of guys holding their great sword by the blade and attacking with that pommel

[vagrant charm]

Yeah murder stroke

Not at effective as halfsword imo tho

Lot more reliable and less risky

[vagrant charm]

Also the attack could have possibly jus been one of those random “joke”techniques some fencing masters make like “ending them rightly” iirc

[spring heath]

not sure if this counts but
https://youtu.be/Jf5ripSoy04

maybe buffing shieldbashing/sheild thrusting could be cool

[robust lily]

@turbid shadow

Blemmyes in half sword when?

[vocal vale]

how do you buff physics

[upper seal]

maybe getting the shield more stiff?

[vocal vale]

well it's not like they bend innit

[upper seal]

sorry I meant the wrist

when they hold the shield

[vocal vale]

yeah wrists should be more stiff in general

[upper seal]

agreed

[vocal vale]

if you get your weapon smacked your character just loses all control over it

[upper seal]

they just get flabbergasted

[vocal vale]

i was thinking it could have a system similar to how fists work, whenever fists are stationary or moving slowly they're normal and when they move fast they ball up into, well, a fist

actively moving your weapon could increase the stiffness of your wrist, so you can effectively overpower other weapons or have legitimate clashes rather than one person's wrist go out at a convenient time to decide victory

[upper seal]

nice idea

or just add toughness in general

would be great in arena mode

in first fights you would be shaking and all

[tropic fulcrum]

If I remember correctly haha

Otherwise it would be iicr

[tepid edge]

https://wargearshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/4-6.jpg

is something like this historical? Just the half scabbard idea

I think these might be better than what we got right now

since they might be less prone to getting the sword stuck

[sullen charm]

no

the whole point of a scabbard is to... y'know, alongside storing it— to protect the blade.

there's a reason the only source of "half scabbards" one can really find are from shitty LARP stores that use leather.

like, yes. you could use one. but... why?

[tepid edge]

Oh

Guess I was too focused on how they would work ingame

[stuck pelican]

coolness?

[heavy herald]

because the blade is virtual and doesn't need to be protected? and the ones now tend to freak out?

[sour field]

they especially get really weird after you reach a certain distance from the origin point

[tawny zephyr]

I wouldn't mind if they were removed altogether, at least if that would fix the problem

[smoky topaz]

no

no only is it not safe for the blade, it's not safe for the wearer of the blade

sword sharp

[fleet junco]

Add lindybeige

[dull geode]

don't

[sullen charm]

please don't

[earnest summit]

Who’s that

[tender estuary]

pesky english man

[fleet junco]

1450

More tassets and demipauldroms

[rich totem]

the lemon pepper steppers

[sullen charm]

I love this harness so much

It's such a Mr. Worldwide moment

(German noble comissioning a harness "in the french manner" from Italian makers)

[stuck pelican]

Is that a pauldron… or a super spaulder

[fleet junco]

Its both a spaulder and a pauldron

Demi pauldrons are on a lot of gothic stuff

[stuck pelican]

That’s pretty new to me

What’s a full set of armor called again?

I remember it had a specific name

[sullen charm]

Harness

Like i said right above

[stuck pelican]

Ah

[turbid shadow]

what a well worth it commission

[spring heath]

https://youtu.be/25QOKmFXC_4

[reef thicket]

Grabbing the front of the spear should be a feature tbh

[sullen charm]

2nd example looks like landsknecht, or other forms of 16th century mercenaries. 1st example looks to be (as you said) gun knights, not proper cuirassiers.

[lapis dock]

Shnozzle shoes

[rich totem]

the snoopa steppers

[fleet junco]

The german

[ripe hedge]

So what actually goes in this channel

Some of the stuff I'm happy to share (and hopefully mod into the game at some point?)

And some other swords and seaxes

[fleet junco]

These suck

Im joking