references♥_1450-1470

[spark sleet]

yes I corrected myself

I was simply brainwashed by a moderator for two seconds

[sullen charm]

Nah it's definitely something you see in the second half of the 15th century, there's a colossal amount of these notably in french manuscripts from the period

[sullen charm]

tbh look like some kind of armet or bicoque more than a bascinet

also stop calling the helmet houskull, it's the name of the visor not the helmet

[rough temple]

[vocal vale]

???

[vocal vale]

im calling it a hounskull because “bascinet” would be an umbrella term including more than the subject of debate

bascinet could imply grand bacinets, or the earlier klappvisor bascinets

we’re specifically discussing bascinets from the later 1300s, which would likely be a hounskull visored one which is the kind everyone has been suggesting

[dull geode]

this part suggests it's more of an armet

[vocal vale]

i have not seen a single armet with a hounskull*

and i’m fairly certain the line in the middle is maille

[dull geode]

well that isn't a klappvisor

[vocal vale]

oh yeah

[dull geode]

klappvisors have one hinge on the top

[vocal vale]

my bad

hounskull

jumbled my words

[dull geode]

here's a reproduction of one that would've been used in this era

as armets were becoming more commonplace they sometimes had transitional appearances

[vocal vale]

could you cite an extant piece or a more definitive illustrated appearance of an armet with a hounskull

[dull geode]

sure let me go find one

[vocal vale]

additionally, the helmet in the picture of debate is clearly one piece, and does not have the hinge on the side that would allow the helmet to open in the manner of an armet

the pointy tip also signifies a bascinet

[dull geode]

these pieces hinge

it's a bit more visible on the back

[tepid edge]

can you jam something in to that

and like pry on it

[dull geode]

not sure what you mean

[tepid edge]

I don't what I mean either

it just looks like a weak point to me

[vocal vale]

there is no detailing on the helmet that shows any articulation, except for the visor

[tepid edge]

like naturally

Are there any houndskull bassies that do not have hinges?

[dull geode]

here are some that are similar

[tepid edge]

the beak just there

[dull geode]

oh, like just a solid piece?

[tepid edge]

yeeee

[dull geode]

not that i know of

[vocal vale]

those are italian, only one of them has a pointy tip, and the visor is still distincly fitting of a "typical" italian armet

[frail lagoon]

U made it?

[dull geode]

i dont believe you specified a location

[dull geode]

i didnt no lol

or wait

[vocal vale]

by the way when i meant hinge earlier, im not good with the terms on the connection between the pieces

[dull geode]

no i did make that drawing on the right

[vocal vale]

i meant the parts on the sides that allow it to open

[frail lagoon]

I like the drawing

its nice

[dull geode]

thanks i'll post some of my stuff in #art-🎨

[frail lagoon]

k

[dull geode]

well it does have them

[frail lagoon]

I like how the lines are

[dull geode]

you can see on the sides that the pieces would open

[dull geode]

oh i see

[vocal vale]

well, yes, but that's not present on the bascinet / armet helmet that we're discussing

it looks like one piece, like a bascinet

[dull geode]

i'm of the opinion they are

[tepid edge]

is being hit by a sword with a helmet on feel like being hit by a baseball bat

or is it worse

[vocal vale]

for it to be an armet it would have to open on the sides, but there is no visible piece on the sides that would allow it to open in that way

there is just the visor and the bascinet

additionally, this is an illustration from the same manuscript

1427

switzerland

[dull geode]

i don't believe i've ever seen a bascinet from a period this late that would have the visor be that small relative to the rest of the helmet

the visor would be closer to level with the rest

[vocal vale]

i dont have anything to argue against this but i also dont see how that relates

[vocal vale]

i feel like the fact that another, less muddy in detail drawing of a different hounskull bascinet is enough to show that the first one is not an armet

[dull geode]

it seems plausible to me that you're not seeing mail, but rather a chin plate, because of how bascinets are usually styled; armets for example have smaller visors because of their chin protection

[dull geode]

this plate right here might be a hinge piece

[vocal vale]

or a rock hitting him in the face

considering he's bleeding from the face at the part where the rock is hitting him

[dull geode]

perhaps

well

hes bleeding from other parts too

[vocal vale]

that's true but even if it were a piece of plate it would not be opening in front of his weapon or in his face

[dull geode]

considering it'd close over part of his face i don't believe that's implausible

[dull geode]

but i think that other guy has a sling or something so it might be a rock anyway

weird shape for an armet plate anyway

[vocal vale]

he is bleeding at every point the rock is touching his face as well as wincing in pain at its contact

[dull geode]

do you have a link to this manuscript

[vocal vale]

let me fetch it

http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/list/one/bks/membr0008

[dull geode]

thanks

[dull geode]

it does appear to show off a pretty normal hounskull bascinet here

what's half sword's era again? 1450

if so then by then bascinets with hounskull visors (great bascinets or even armets) won't be appearing

[dull geode]

i do think this one's an example of an armet though

[dull geode]

odd

considering his current art direction is mid to late 15th

[vocal vale]

1400 - 1425, nasal helmet similar to the first helmet in the game

[dull geode]

helmets with this vague, salletlike/bascinetlike shape were used across the 14th to late 15th century

[vocal vale]

yeah i just thought it was interesting because i dont see many nasal helmets in the 1400s

when i first saw it in game i thought "huh that looks a little early" but i also dont research nasal helmets that often

[dull geode]

here's an example of one

(from 1450)

they were definitely rarer in the 15th century than previously though

[vocal vale]

thats cool

im not much a fan of open helmets a lot of the time but those look pretty sweet

[candid dawn]

We got this one in the back log

[dull geode]

YOOOOOOOO

[vocal vale]

whoa

i can’t wait for all the armor that’s gonna be added

[dull geode]

yeah i'm really lookin forward to it

[tepid edge]

love how the nose gotta be hinged

[sullen charm]

Ah true I didn't zoom in

[sullen charm]

Hounskull is even more of an umbrella term, it literally just refers to a visor that you see on other helmets than bascinets

[vocal vale]

personal preference then, broseph

[sullen charm]

Also just replying to this, a hounskull can totally be a klappvisor

[vocal vale]

yeah because klappvisor refers to the middle articulation and not the shape

there are hounskull shaped visors with klappvisor hinges

[sullen charm]

Ya

My personal favorites at that.. !

[tight sand]

GOD DAAAAAAAAMN

[stuck pelican]

Hinge front end peice..?

Very nice modeling ivan

[stuck pelican]

The poor guy, what happened to them?

[vocal vale]

peasant revolt 😔

[stuck pelican]

Looks like he wasnt too liked in switzerland or whatever it says in the bio

I always loved chainmail and these types of armors. These are 1361

Late 15th

Would ya look at that!

I wish for head wrags and these types of vests, can somebody tell me what theyre called?

Same with these sling holsters

So this is what the gap in the sheild ingame we have is for?

I really want some customization to equipment

Head wrap

These bands

Simply scarfs and such

Full head wraps

Chainmail short sleeves basically.

Foot protection

Shorter helmets

Funny full head wraps

Neck like protection thingamabobbers

Bigger buckler like sheilds

Long sleve chainmail and axes with large points on the back so you can flip to it

[vocal vale]

thats a BIIIG barbute

[stuck pelican]

Big single side shoulder protection

Different armor plating seen on right side

Germanic just knee protection area, again shorter chainmail protection and leahter gloves!

@vocal vale Were kite sheilds used

Single sided armor. So you equip armor manually per each part?

[vocal vale]

im not good with shields

[stuck pelican]

Non full leg protection

Shorter sleve padded gear

CHAINMAIL!!!!!!!!

Short ones that just reach to waist
Medium ones like this
And longer ones that are basically above the knees!

• No sleeve versions

• Shorter sleeves like this one|

• Longer sleeve ones that reach to elbows

• Super long sleeves that reach to wrist area.

• ALSO BELTS FOR SEATHE WEAPONS YOU NEED TO GET TO HAVE ACTUAL SEATHES?

[sullen charm]

Modern art 🤢 ..

from "Arrivals of the Pilgrims in Cologne" by Vittore Carpaccio

Found at Chalcis

(https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/23235)

[vocal vale]

this exact image has been brought up 4 times in this channel today

[sullen charm]

I'm not surprised

[vocal vale]

i might actually buy a version of this painting for my room

i really like it

[sullen charm]

But was the link from the museum also sent..

[dull geode]

this is a brigandine

[vocal vale]

no, i could tell it was from the met though because of the background

[sullen charm]

Chalcis had pretty interesting pieces like this one aswell

[vocal vale]

thats like the EXACT one from half sword

or, rather, IN half sword

[sullen charm]

mid 15th century venetians copied half sword I cannot believe it this has to STOP

[stuck pelican]

Іш

si

[vocal vale]

speaking of venetians, i'd like to see a venetian grand bascinet in game

[sullen charm]

Would be pretty dope

[dull geode]

are those period accurate

[vocal vale]

yes

[dull geode]

forgot if they were or not

interesting

[dull geode]

theyre neat helmets but i really really like half sword's current armor styling

[vocal vale]

i do too but i'd like a bit more expansion from german gothic

[sullen charm]

I know a french source showing what seems to be this very helmet from around 1462-1465

[vocal vale]

surcoats, big bulky milanese stuff, some more chainmail and variations of other pieces

[dull geode]

can we see

[sullen charm]

I have no certitude that it's the same helmet but god damn it's close

[dull geode]

looks quite strange

[vocal vale]

looks about like one although its hard to be sure

[sullen charm]

also this

[dull geode]

how widespread was that helmet

[sullen charm]

that's impossible to quantify

[vocal vale]

yeah thats one

100%

[sullen charm]

there's multiple archeological findings of such helms and a couple art so it should have been at least decently popular in certain areas

[dull geode]

i guess a better question is, was it used beyond italy/france

[vocal vale]

i've seen it mostly in italy and i just now saw the maybe-french one, i dont think it was in germany

[dull geode]

like britain/central europe

[sullen charm]

I believe one was found in modern day catalonia

[dull geode]

neat

[sullen charm]

( https://www.facebook.com/mordekay.lord/posts/pfbid02NMbpwhmJc9phQMSRzL6dU99VwtEs2fSjyT7W46xTq2HEFQW1UgxB43bHZWqXdkgJl )

[vocal vale]

i like armorysmith's sketches

[sullen charm]

But most of them are for buhurt so

[vocal vale]

true

i like the sources he shows though

[sullen charm]

There's also this weirdass helmet (greathelm?..) from like the mid 14th century, France

[vocal vale]

yes! i think it's funny how the design cropped up in the later years

additionally, some EVEN EARLIER greathelms had some elements like that as well

[sullen charm]

tehe

[stuck pelican]

we have belts ingame pls... just add that sling part that shows up when you equip a seathe

[tepid edge]

any visored great helms?

flat tops

[vocal vale]

what do you mean

just greathelms? in general? you wanna see photos or what

[tepid edge]

yeahI was wondering if like the earlier flattop great helms ever had hinged visors

I think the more conical/sugarloaf did but I wanted to know if the flat top ones prior ever did

[vocal vale]

these kinds of weird bastard-greathelms are the only ones off the top of my head that had hinged visors

i've never seen a sugarloaf with one, either, unless you count these as sugarloaves

[tepid edge]

I guess they do

[sullen charm]

never seen flat tops with visors

In term of greathelms, i've only seen sugarloaves that sometimes have visors

like

[sullen charm]

No I mean like movable visors lol

[vocal vale]

ohh

yeah me neither

[sullen charm]

I'm aware flat tops had facial plates lol

[vocal vale]

i was really surprised at the notion that you hadnt

glad you do

[sullen charm]

that remind me

[vocal vale]

love this COA

[stuck pelican]

They wouldent be able to go up as it’s not rounded, at most downwards flip down, or sideways like a door

Or they’d be really spaced from the face / helmet itself giving it no rigidity

[tight sand]

idk why but it looks similar to me

[finite shadow]

orthedox greek coat of arms

[stuck pelican]

FISHHHH

[old sky]

I dont know if this is the right channel but does an actual medieval version of this helmet exist in real life or is it just a fantasy nasal?

[dull geode]

it seems like a nasal spangenhelm with mail

never seen anything like it historically speaking but i dunno

[old sky]

lego has made a version with mail so that would imply that this is all steel

although this may be considered a skull cap

[sullen charm]

Closest I know would be smething like (Helmet after the Lewis chessmen. XI-XIII A.D)

[remote dirge]

templar armor

[vocal vale]

??

[spark sleet]

its a reference trust me

[vocal vale]

i cant tell if it was a question, suggestion, request for reference, or anything in between those

[spark sleet]

no that is the reference

he knows what hes doing

[vocal vale]

he has such a power with words to instill the mental image of templar armor in my mind; in a sense, the reference is conjured by the reader

[spark sleet]

truly

[sullen charm]

templar armor

[remote dirge]

to be honest idk lmao i just want templar armor in the game and i was too lazy to find a picture

[vocal vale]

like, templar surcoat or what? because "templar armor" isnt really a style more than it is a design on cloth

[remote dirge]

that and the helments they had

i was thinking of the heavy infantry templars with thick armor

[vocal vale]

they didnt really have thick armor

templars only lasted from like ~1100 to ~1300, give or take a few years, the heaviest armor they would've had is the same armor they all had being chainmail hauberks

[remote dirge]

ah

what about those weird helments

[vocal vale]

what do you mean

oh, also, considering the game takes place a good 150 or so years after the templar effectively dissolved, there will be no templar armor

[sullen charm]

I know he probably means greathelm but I cannot help myself but to say that the most widespread helmet amongst the templars were nasals

And that, like Sam mentioned, the game takes place during the second half of the 15thC, so way out of period for templars

[sullen charm]

Probably even early forms or coat of plates ! 🤓

[vocal vale]

might've

but i think those may have came a little later than 1308, im not sure

most of my research is concentrated into the 1400s

[sullen charm]

early coat of plates date as far back as the mid 1200

[vocal vale]

thats cool

ive been meaning to look into them for a while, that's good insight

[sullen charm]

that one saint maurice statue is the most famous (and i believe earliest) example

[vocal vale]

oh yeah

i know the one you're talking about

[knotty pendant]

Can we get chainmail?

Would be nice to have chainmail at some stage before doning the full on ironman suit

[vocal vale]

this isnt a suggestions channel

this is a discuss historical arms and armor channel

[sullen charm]

(he's right tho)

[vocal vale]

he is

there should be chainmail

but like, a fourth of the messages in this channel are "i want to see (x) in half sword"

[sullen charm]

me is I was the sniper elite V1

[knotty pendant]

Oh mb, let me rephrase does anyone have any references to when chainmail armour went from scale armour to metal?

[vocal vale]

chainmail was present in the roman empire

[sullen charm]

maille never really phased out lol

[vocal vale]

called lorica hamata

[sullen charm]

Celts invented it lesgo

[knotty pendant]

I know that the celtics had it

[vocal vale]

oh yeah

forgot about them

[knotty pendant]

But it was more scale like

than actual chained together steel

[sullen charm]

uh?

[vocal vale]

i've always wanted to do reenactment 😔

[sullen charm]

same.. but expenso

[knotty pendant]

Wait no I'm thinking of Bronze scale armour from the Assyriuans

[vocal vale]

reenacting a peasant who cant afford armor

[vocal vale]

dagged cloth in the first pic goes HAARD

[sullen charm]

Fr

[bitter storm]

i feel that

[sullen charm]

imagine being able to afford that ahaah couldnt be me haha

(zoom to see the patterns)

[bitter storm]

thats pretty

[sullen charm]

the burgundian pikemen in question

[tight sand]

templars in thick armor 💀

[tight sand]

u talking about this one ?

[tight sand]

why do u guys think what was the reason of popularity of Sallet

It seems like even bascinets provide better protection to the head

i ve heard thats even in Bugurt, sallet is not a very good helm

I think thats its because of its modularity

that you can without problems move ur gorget for better breathing

and etc

[old sky]

Are there any plans to add a war flail? I recon it could be very fun to use

[vocal vale]

bingo, that and they seem to be easier manufactured easier

[tender shuttle]

It being looser also means that you don’t have to as drastically modify and manufacture it for individual head sizes too

[remote dirge]

yes and i think i saw a helm with wings on it? idk

[vocal vale]

that makes sense then for why they were a typical “munitions” helmet, you didn’t need to get them custom made me supposins

[remote dirge]

also the game keeps freezing for me now but when i first got it the game worked perfectly fine

[remote dirge]

ah yes, they are too far away for me to hit them with my flail so we SHALL ADD A LONG ASS STICK TO IT

[tender shuttle]

Latest update reduced stability but wrong channel for discussing that

[vocal vale]

that’s not a thing

[remote dirge]

ah

[remote dirge]

ah

[vocal vale]

you’re probably just thinking of greathelms

[remote dirge]

yes

[tender shuttle]

Parade, ceremonial, and event helms often had lavish decorations like wings and horns, for basically as long as armor had been a thing

[remote dirge]

what about add the king of Jerusalem, Baldwin IV of Jerusalem’s armor

[vocal vale]

i’ve never seen one with wings, is there a particular piece you’re talking about?

[vocal vale]

i’ve only seen ones with horns in real life and winged helmets in fantasy games

[vocal vale]

he didn’t actually wear a mask, there wasn’t really anything special about the armor he would’ve worn

kingdom of heaven is great though

[remote dirge]

still would be cool

[remote dirge]

yes

only bad thing is i had to watch it on youtube and it had subtitles for a different language

[tender shuttle]

I’ll see if I can find them but like jousting helms were often depicted with full birds on them and whales and all sorts of over the top animal imagery

[vocal vale]

oh, like the crests? those are usually just heads of ducks and stuff, sometimes they have dagged cloth hanging as a sort of drape but i’ve never seen one with full wing ornaments

[remote dirge]

how about these

not the horse just the winged hussar armor

[tender shuttle]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_helmet

Looks like it’s a whole thing but mainly predates medieval period

Seems EXTREMELY common motif for greathelms

[vocal vale]

ah, i was thinking he meant the typical wings on the side like warden from for honor

[vocal vale]

what do you mean how about them

[vocal vale]

which i’m aware of the teutonic like plate-wing thing i just thought that was out of the topic

i’ve never seen something like the dude in the fourth photo has, i really like that

[tender shuttle]

Oh you were thinking about like the Super elaborate side helmet wing things like

[remote dirge]

the armor

[tender shuttle]

Looks like there are some pre-medieval helmets that have swooping wings like that but nothing closed face that i can find

[vocal vale]

yeah, those are cool but i’ve never seen an angle like that on medieval helmets

[tender shuttle]

Yeah looks like it’s mainly a pre-medieval thing

[vocal vale]

pretty sweet

[tender shuttle]

Oooh ok looks like there’s ONE historical sallet that has a design like that

[vocal vale]

i like that a lot, i wonder how heavy all these ornaments turn out to be? im sure the big like griffon ones really mess with your neck

[tender shuttle]

I’d hate to walk under a tree or doorway wearing any of those, seems like it would be a disaster

Although as I think we all know, since the Dawn of time, man will do ANYTHING to look cool

[vocal vale]

fashion is half the battle

look cool play cool

[tender shuttle]

I suppose it’s no wonder the winged helmet became such a pervasive trope, there are HUNDREDS of Roman era/Viking age examples

Hmmm I never thought of it before but aren’t these evolutions of the same notion

It seems like there’s some kind of grand cultural memetic idea associating feathers with the side of the head

https://www.greecetravel.com/archaeology/mitsopoulou/feathers/index.htm

Article is terribly written but yeah theres securely some kind of cultural pattern going on here

[agile trench]

I love wing ornaments

[vocal vale]

‘zee got boiled leather on the arm? looks sweet

[sullen charm]

not historical

[sullen charm]

still think you could have done better with the wings ... imo!

[sullen charm]

Do you want 17th century armor in a late 15th century game?

[agile trench]

How so

[sullen charm]

by not making them look like some for honor accessory .. is all ..

[agile trench]

well, thats what i based it off of because i liked the wings in that game

[sullen charm]

bleegh

[gusty plank]

Based it off a device from 'The Heroicall Devices' written 1591

[stuck pelican]

Pretty dope, but this game is 1450

[turbid shadow]

1430-1480

[stuck pelican]

Yeah I heard

[gusty plank]

Ah, well to be really specific, the book was an attempt by the author, Claude Paradin, to compile a collection of every device known to him to be in use from earlier points in time. The majority of the symbols he attributed to be in use since classical antiquity, mostly from the Roman empire, and thus associated each entry had a Latin motto associated with it... though as with many historical works, these claims can probably taken with a grain of salt.

[gusty plank]

Anyway I guess Ill start looking for a 15th century symbol that can represent "I run into things and this kills them (but I am the one that is scared)"

@tender shuttle Here's a fun resource: https://heraldica.hypotheses.org/1770

[vocal vale]

i like that a lot

COAmaker is so dope

[sullen charm]

So true

Made a few CoAs myself aswell hehe

[pliant minnow]

Happy wheels

[candid dawn]

Some odd yet intresting helmet examples

[vast night]

Barbute my beloved.

[agile trench]

they almost just look disproportioned

[remote dirge]

i forgot what era the game was lmao

[dull geode]

poor reproductions

or just productions

i dunno if they're supposed to be anything specific

[vocal vale]

second one looks alright

[dull geode]

it lacks the finish that black sallets typically had

i guess its okay for shaping though

[stuck pelican]

curving metal is hard

[agile trench]

Doesn’t make an excuse for making proper reproductions

[stuck pelican]

yeah but still

its hard

[agile trench]

Bending 1/0 wire is hard but the job needs to get done and needs to looks good at the end of the day

Work ethic my guy

[sullen charm]

repro & original

(Austrian armet ~1500)

[stuck pelican]

That thing is unbeleively hot.

[sullen charm]

(source of the repro: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0h7kuLCT41f3PWRmgDfWmwa9tXTxL6qJMdFherzhZxAje5zJXG4PpWQfGSw3wKgxFl&id=100057636212394)

[stuck pelican]

Dates updated

We have more specific dates for the equipment now, unlike 1450~

• Go crazy

[stuck pelican]

1480-1490 Vienna helmet.

• Pretty old design of helmet though

1470 - 1480 "Brescia"

This insaine thing
Jousting Helm
1480
(Add with the flaps on front, its cool!)

[sullen charm]

"Germanic" jacks

[stuck pelican]

1470-1480 "Equestian Armour"
?Nurnberg, Kaiserburg, Bayern Germany?

• Flip up helmet with the same design and neck folds basically so its easier to look up and move around!

[sullen charm]

how is that old design ?

[stuck pelican]

We have a very similar thing ingame already

this ones just studded

[sullen charm]

Ah

thought you meant old design historically

[stuck pelican]

also seen by the post below its seen to be even made 1470

[stuck pelican]

No prob 15th century

just

all over

[sullen charm]

late 15thc

[stuck pelican]

Italian Helmet
(Idk i searched up 1480 and this came up)

[sullen charm]

nasty

[stuck pelican]

I personalyl like that eye slit

[sullen charm]

i'm saying nasty because it's an ugly repro

[stuck pelican]

aii

1430 Low gorget

• German

[turbid shadow]

give this man a true

[stuck pelican]

Gorget, Flemish? Idk what that is

[turbid shadow]

insanely way better

[sullen charm]

That's 1525–75

idk where you get the dates

[stuck pelican]

GOOGLE.

You guys are better at dates than me lol

[turbid shadow]

google can be incorrect sometimes

[stuck pelican]

Yeah

Thats why theres many of us

[sullen charm]

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/23004

[stuck pelican]

I just find images!

• Italian Gorget

[sullen charm]

those are way out of date

[modest pecan]

i like the german gorget better

the italians are too clunky

[stuck pelican]

What date?

[sullen charm]

I'll check but metal gorgets are way out of date in general

[stuck pelican]

Im pretty sure these are Spaulders

[sullen charm]

Nasty reproduction of churburg s18

[sullen charm]

https://www.allenantiques.com/A-114c.html

[stuck pelican]

Yeah they connect with the gorget

HOW THE HELL

ARE YOU.

[sullen charm]

(1580)

[stuck pelican]

ok your going to give me dates.

[turbid shadow]

they see me roolin' they hatin'

[turbid shadow]

this guys kit is so awesome

[stuck pelican]

wtf are these supposed to be

[sullen charm]

(bad) reproduction of brigandine spaulders

[turbid shadow]

poor ass replica of brigandine

spaulders

[stuck pelican]

no idea what year but found this cool

[sullen charm]

Also the churburg s18 is dated 1410-15 so out of date aswell ..

[turbid shadow]

yeah shucks

[stuck pelican]

Replication of it

[sullen charm]

voiders of maille are pretty much universal to the 15th century

[turbid shadow]

I would've loved to see the churburber in half sword

[stuck pelican]

a what

char burger?

yum

yo fencer

should we make a list

pinned for

equipment which shoulkd be added

and keep adding to it

[turbid shadow]

too bad he's out of date

[turbid shadow]

just a joke that I've made up with bossk

[turbid shadow]

maybe

the thing is we are going to have to add things to the list which actually fit the time period of this game

even though ivan probably knows his shit

[sullen charm]

schecken

[stuck pelican]

I’ll give you the set up

Actually I’m always active

I’ll do the set up

[turbid shadow]

the schekes, I fuckin love them

wouldn't be suprised if we're getting them soon enough

[modest pecan]

what about you guys add a gun into the game with like a 0.0001% chance of spawning

[sullen charm]

maille braies

[turbid shadow]

repost of the schekes

[sullen charm]

so cool

[modest pecan]

theese look tight

[stuck pelican]

1430 - 1450 Medieval Equipment list

Arming Doublet

• Clothing

Brigandine

• Brigandine Spaulders

• Armor

Schecken

• Ontop armor

Maille braises

• armor

Should we do this

Or no

[sullen charm]

1430-1480 not 1500 lol

[stuck pelican]

ooohhhpp

[turbid shadow]

the aeternis

[sullen charm]

covered breastplate and placard..

[sullen charm]

so real

[stuck pelican]

@turbid shadow dm me more crap to add to it

We’ll set up a easy list for Ivan

He can then go through it

and pick out whatever to add

[sullen charm]

"jack chains"

Mittens with rondels

panzerhosen

[turbid shadow]

we don't really need this whole list crap, cus you or anyone could just use this channel and post arms and armor or anything really that as long as it fits within half sword's period

[sullen charm]

Maille bevor

[turbid shadow]

they made half sword real

[stuck pelican]

ok ok I’ll unpin

[sullen charm]

I would be so unsurprised if it was a fake tbh

[stuck pelican]

How would these be useful

[stuck pelican]

How did you even find this

[sullen charm]

at protecting your hands

[stuck pelican]

Yeah but like

Why the circle part

Like if a hammer hit its, it don’t help

[sullen charm]

to protect your hand

it will help

[stuck pelican]

so does it like

[stuck pelican]

Distribute impact different

Or like what

[turbid shadow]

I've kinda thought the same because of how goofy it looks but it looks okay

[sullen charm]

You'd also have to kinda be pretty unlucky and need your ennemy to not really know what he's doing in order to receive a hammer strike to the hand

[stuck pelican]

I think it looks sick lol

[agile trench]

ARMOR IS MEANT TO KEEP YOU LESS LIKELY FROM DYING NOT MAKING YOU INVINCIBLE, SOME THINGS HAVE NO PURPOSE OTHER THAN FASHION

[turbid shadow]

give this man a true

[stuck pelican]

give this man a :true:

I need to add the true and false emoji

[agile trench]

Shit drives me up the fucking wall sometimes when people thing everything needs a function

[sullen charm]

Only that weird screwdriver rivet thing lol doesn't really inspire me original

[stuck pelican]

[sullen charm]

I mean having a rondel on your hand does help

as armor

[turbid shadow]

https://www.pinterest.com/aboerbront/ this guy has some cool stuff

[stuck pelican]

I GO SHOWE.

[turbid shadow]

most of his pins seem to be related to half swords time period

[sullen charm]

it's a steel plate disk on top of maille ..

[stuck pelican]

steel?

they did NOT use steel that commonly im pretty sure

It was like all iron

[agile trench]

I mean yeah it provides a little more protection but still it provides no other specific purpose other then another piece of metal providing a small increase to protection for your hand

[stuck pelican]

cuz steel I don’t think was as easily and cheaply produced

[sullen charm]

what drives me crazy are the ppl seeing this and say like "But wouldn't that just break your teeth ? As if having a maille bevor acts like a magnet.. Also would 100% prefer broken teeth than having me jaw sliced open

[sullen charm]

It kinda was doe

you have both iron and steel

[stuck pelican]

so

Death < critical injury

yeah I agree

[sullen charm]

can you even call broken teeth critical injury ..

[turbid shadow]

this one is interesting

[sullen charm]

or a broken hand..

[stuck pelican]

I feel like with enough impact it wil do more than broken teeth

more like shattered jaw

[sullen charm]

Yeah ok true

[stuck pelican]

unless he has like plate armor ontop

steel > bone

Literally any metal > bone

[sullen charm]

but rather have that than the blade directly up me tonsils

[stuck pelican]

True

Estoc:

[turbid shadow]

gauntlets yo

[sullen charm]

Caesium ☝️🤓

[agile trench]

You’re gonna get a broken jaw either way, it’ll probably be just a little less broken with a bevor

[sullen charm]

from:

[turbid shadow]

someone needs to deliver this book to ivan

honestly wouldn't be surprised if he already has it himself

[sullen charm]

shi was expenso..

[agile trench]

How thick is this book anyways?

[sullen charm]

pretty thick

i had to buy it from england and of course those fucking wankers left the EU so I had to pay extra fees

reeee

brig spaulders tehe

[agile trench]

121 USD??? DAMN

[sullen charm]

worth it tho

[agile trench]

I bet

[sullen charm]

anyway enough posting for now i go back to gaming

[stuck pelican]

instead of shattered

Cracked

:D

[stuck pelican]

Can you have.. spaulders and Pauldrons?

Also is there any - or + between the both

[sullen charm]

That's a pretty hard and specific question to answer ngl

[tight sand]

its you ?

[sullen charm]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/964267145678716991/1168852126584287232/togif.gif?ex=6553455f&is=6540d05f&hm=b08feb57f1584e9a8accd824ef7b702755bc345f97ed615d2ba6224574833588&

[gusty plank]

My understanding of the matter is that pauldrons are a technical evolution from spaulders that started occuring in the 15th century (though the term 'pauldron' is itself a little bit older) when people started making spaulders so large that they extended into the armpit and chest area, as well as protecting the lower bicep. Normally to achieve similar protection, you'd have needed to attach a spaulder to a rerebrace, thus the distinction.

[robust tendon]

colbenturnier bascinet and gothic fluted armor

[turbid shadow]

crecy is so back

[stuck pelican]

I’m pretty sure they’re different attached too

[turbid shadow]

the great great bascinet

[gusty plank]

On that note, it would be cool to see some rerebraces in the game, they are a pretty simple, but overlooked armor component that had their heyday in the games time period.

[sullen charm]

bleegh

[turbid shadow]

HE IS SO AWESOME

he is just way too good

[gusty plank]

Who is he

[sullen charm]

himb

[turbid shadow]

the armorest man

[gusty plank]

I like the rebated halberd, is he a buhurt guy?

[sullen charm]

rewhat-what ?

the pollaxe?

also be he's not a buhurt guy, he's from a belarusian reenactment groups reenacting burgundy

[gusty plank]

Oh whoops yes the poleaxe. A rebated weapon is one that has been altered in some way to make it safe for sport fighting, usually in a way other than a spatulated tip

[robust tendon]

The Armet

[stuck pelican]

I want the helmets with that

[robust tendon]

plumes and orles NOW

[turbid shadow]

soon

hold on I gotta share you the video

@robust tendon

[robust tendon]

oh my goodness gracious

[turbid shadow]

the scheke strikes again

[robust tendon]

Schekes need

[robust tendon]

bases need

the lordlings

[turbid shadow]

the sleeping men

side to side

[candid dawn]

oh boy keep these awesome refs coming! 😄

[stuck pelican]

Why you get footage of this but not me :(

[stuck pelican]

We got you sire!

[sacred cove]

Is this guy Swedish?

[candid dawn]

jaföfan

[sacred cove]

Är du Svensk, grabben?

[candid dawn]

hehe, så svenska man kan bli

[sacred cove]

Is that why there is a Swedish flag on the win screen?

I am also Swedish, that is why I could tell from the accent.

[candid dawn]

there is some swedish and georgian easter eggs here and there ;))

ye the swedish accent is permanent

branded 😄

[sacred cove]

But the other devs are Russian right?

[candid dawn]

georgian

[sacred cove]

Ah.

[candid dawn]

he speaks russian tho, we all multi lingual

swedish is actually my second language

for some reason xD

[sacred cove]

Were you born in Sweden?

[candid dawn]

ye, but my parents are from the balkans

first learned those languages, then swedish when i got in school

the school tought i was retarded cuz i refused to speak swedish hehe

[sacred cove]

I feel like I am better at English than Swedish.

Constantly online.

[turbid shadow]

@sullen charm why are they so scary

[smoky topaz]

Such drip

[manic bobcat]

english armor would be awesome to see

note this is very very high status stuff

[modest pecan]

I just noticed quite a number of the armor in this game is actually german

[manic bobcat]

most of it is german or italian

or italian export

to germany

[hallow hearth]

Battle of San Romano!!

[stuck pelican]

Why do people keep doing Russia reactions in announcements

[stuck pelican]

I guess they were marvelous engineers all through-out history (germans)

[modest pecan]

Yay

[severe mauve]

i think it would be pretty cool if you could get some stuff like this in game

(click on the imageds to see the full thing, shitty discord crop moment)

Hounskull Bascinet and Klappvisor would go hard

[sullen charm]

They are too early for the game

[severe mauve]

ahhh yeah thats fair

[sullen charm]

Also the fourth one is a costume based on a fake

[severe mauve]

damn 🫡

i was mainly focusing on the helmet with the last one but yeah thats fair

[sullen charm]

Would also love a hounskull klappvisor but yeah.. unfortunately out of date!

😔

[stuck pelican]

1400s - 1420s may be added but like unlikely ||most of it was destroyed or used with time||

Looking on what @candid dawn replies with!

[severe mauve]

i would absolutely love to see some stuff from the 1400's, that would be sick asf

[stuck pelican]

The main focus is in the pins

[sullen charm]

That's .. arguable

[stuck pelican]

That’s what I remember from Ivan

[sullen charm]

plenty of surviving pieces

Also a shit ton of effigies and brasses/art

[stuck pelican]

Majority

Versus some during now

[severe mauve]

alright i looked at the pinned, would be hype

[stuck pelican]

Snd way less now

[sullen charm]

this will be me in 2012

[stuck pelican]

On the side note… How do people get such cool like profile pictures, like you (Sophie) and Rainbow

[stuck pelican]

Ok that’s kinda swag

[severe mauve]

i spend copious amounts of money on art 😭 🙏

[stuck pelican]

I love the one bigger pauldron

[stuck pelican]

I don’t have money in the start to actually buy art

[sullen charm]

That's a pretty popular thing in the italianate world

crayfish

[stuck pelican]

Some craw daddies

[severe mauve]

damn </3

[stuck pelican]

One must obtain a job at 15 to spend it all on art which people take 1/8 the time to do for the money I pay them

[severe mauve]

i mean speaking from experience, it takes a lot to actually be able to cook up good art so i cant blame people for taking a long time

[stuck pelican]

I literally draw with snipping tool

[stuck pelican]

ARE THOSE DOGS

[stuck pelican]

his ass should be playing basketball

[sullen charm]

Yeah for some reasons knights stepped on dogs a lot on their effigies (their dogs prolly?)

[stuck pelican]

Oh he’s literally stepping on them.

You know what I want

[sullen charm]

Well no not really since he's laying on his back

[stuck pelican]

Ability for armor to spawn as individual parts

So you can mix and match shoulder parts

and leg parts

Elbow

Slowly build up your own gear

[stuck pelican]

I don’t get it

Why don’t all knights have like the long maille

[sullen charm]

Not always necessary / not always the most liked fashion

[stuck pelican]

I mean, wouldent it give more protection

[sullen charm]

Not necesseraly

For instance germans seemed to prefer having maille braies rather than skirts like italians

[stuck pelican]

the braies being the half padded half maille thing rihjt

[sullen charm]

and tight sleeves going in the arm armor without an overlaping large short sleeve like italians

[stuck pelican]

I’m guessing it has to do with more practical meaning

[vagrant charm]

There like maille shorts

[sullen charm]

no braies are basically the medieval underwear

[stuck pelican]

wtf

HUH

[sullen charm]

But maille braies are the maille "shorts"

[sullen charm]

Yeah that

Instead of wearing a maille skirt, germanic influenced ppl tend to prefer that

Then there's France and Burgundy which seemed to have both available

manuscript made in Heidelberg, Germany 1494

[stuck pelican]

I feel like the skirt would be more… moveable in

[stuck pelican]

Does this thing flip under and over to the front

[sullen charm]

the maille braies isn't skin-tight

[sullen charm]

yes

[vagrant charm]

You could also have faulds long enough to not worry about maille skirts or whatever else

[sullen charm]

Very cool Italian dismounted man at arms with a glaive (and only one pauldron)

From 1436-1438, Ms. 1388, Bologna

[stuck pelican]

Humpy dumpty..

[sullen charm]

that eventually fazed out tho

[vagrant charm]

Yeah

I just like 1430-1450 armor a lot

[stuck pelican]

Is this actually how they equipped gear

[sullen charm]

yes

[stuck pelican]

If that’s the case, could enemies just tear it off during combat

by unbuckling it or something

[sullen charm]

??

[vagrant charm]

That wouldn’t be easy

[sullen charm]

You think it's a turn-based combat game lol

[stuck pelican]

no

[vagrant charm]

You just gonna let someone undress you mid fight

[stuck pelican]

if they wrestle or something maybe

But probably not

[sullen charm]

while you're trying to untie his pauldrons bro can just stab you in the throat lol

[stuck pelican]

true true

[stuck pelican]

don’t say it.

[sullen charm]

There's accounts of that happening like soldiers pinning down a man-at-arms and straight up just cutting his sallet chin strap off

[stuck pelican]

You know what I notice

They never really protect the rear leg

[vagrant charm]

It’s so it’s more comfortable to ride a horse

[stuck pelican]

What’s stopping enemies from like getting a bill hook and clocking the back of their artery in the leg

[sullen charm]

I think it was Richard III even, we found cut damage on his jaw meaning someone did cut off his straps and then killed him

[stuck pelican]

oh yeah, most had horses

[vagrant charm]

Some ground armor had full leg coverage

[stuck pelican]

What are like. The ranks of soldiers

[sullen charm]

wdym

[stuck pelican]

Like there’s man at arms

Knights

What else

[sullen charm]

Idk depends

Light cavalry, archers/infantry

Sergeants maybe

Conductier in the burgundian army notably

[stuck pelican]

Jesus, how long has the term “sergeant” been around

[sullen charm]

A lot

it just means servant

but different

[stuck pelican]

Also what’s the difference of man at arms and a knight

[sullen charm]

Nobility

All knights are men at arms, not all men at arms are knights

[stuck pelican]

Yeah I was

Gonna say that

is there gear difference

Or basically the same

[sullen charm]

no

[stuck pelican]

Also didn’t man at arms get funded by the actual king

[sullen charm]

Can't know for everyone but french/burgundian ones would have to get their own gear but then they would get paid accordingly to their role (and therefore gear)

[stuck pelican]

Wasn’t like

Medieval gear like that

Stupidly nimble and mobile

like you can full sprint in it

[vagrant charm]

Yes

[sullen charm]

Well it was made to fight in so it kinda had to be mobile

[vagrant charm]

It would be a bit more exhausting though

[sullen charm]

But there's always the mobility + protection ratio

[stuck pelican]

What is like

The best years of most protection

[sullen charm]

And the weight is distributed all over your body

[stuck pelican]

And best years of best mobility

Than both

[sullen charm]

tbh you can't do better in terms of mobility than maille

that shit is literally cloth but metal

[stuck pelican]

It can’t be that bad

[sullen charm]

It's not

i'm saying it's basically mobility stonks

You have virtually unrestricted movement

[vagrant charm]

IMO the worst era for mobility would be when they wore great bascinets because they couldn’t really move their head all that well

[sullen charm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-bnM5SuQkI&pp=ygURbW92ZW1lbnQgaW4gYXJtb3I%3D

Watch this video, it talks about the sport account of the french knight "Boucicaut" (english sub)

[stuck pelican]

So this thing

[vagrant charm]

That’s a frog mouth

[sullen charm]

Yeah but jousting is another complete different thing

[stuck pelican]

I’m so bad with terms

I just slash and kill

And pulverize

[sullen charm]

Like by the 1500s sometimes you literally couldn't move on the horse and you just had to ride in a straight like

You were literally incased in steel

but that's just for the joust

[stuck pelican]

What was the point of this

To see who’s balls are bigger

[vagrant charm]

Is there a name for this style of armor?

[stuck pelican]

It looks more like

Newer…

[sullen charm]

Sport mainly

Sport / Game

[stuck pelican]

Was it just dumb rich people or people were picked and put into there

[sullen charm]

I've heard the term transitional austrian thrown around

[vagrant charm]

Thanks

[sullen charm]

Nah it was the rich

imagine formula 1 kinda

but with nobility

But in some contexts non noble men at arms could participate somewhat

see the "book of tourneys" by King René

[stuck pelican]

Huh..

[sullen charm]

(i'm not talking about peasants or random ppl tho)

[severe mauve]

the left is i think fluted armor??? i could be mistaken

i dont think its maximillian but it could be

[vagrant charm]

Fluted armor isn’t a style

The armor I posted is 1495-1500 so it’s before maximillian

[sullen charm]

Try looking for transitional

or transitonal austrian

[vagrant charm]

But bossk said transitional Austrian so imma trust that

[sullen charm]

or whatever

that's just what I've heard it called around

[severe mauve]

there are flutes in Maximillian armor tho no?

[vagrant charm]

Yeah but flutes are just a feature

[sullen charm]

maximilian isn't the only style that has flutes

[vagrant charm]

Not the name of a style

[severe mauve]

yes i know thats what im saying

[vagrant charm]

Oh

[sullen charm]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/964267145678716991/1168852126584287232/togif.gif?ex=6553455f&is=6540d05f&hm=b08feb57f1584e9a8accd824ef7b702755bc345f97ed615d2ba6224574833588&

[sullen charm]

Some "maximilian" armor doesn't fluting too

[severe mauve]

true true

[sullen charm]

tehe

[hallow hearth]

looks like one of the later 15th century armor pieces

German transitional armor ig

[tepid edge]

You know those extremely long poleaxes/halberds in game?

Were there ever like holsters for them

[manic bobcat]

no

weapons like those were only carried in hand

no way to really carry those on the body

all polearms and twohander swords were like this generally

[fleet junco]

Salmet

Wait i forgkt the date of the hlelemry

1492

All well

[fleet junco]

I think its flemish spanish

[sullen charm]

it's not

[modest pecan]

that looks like a sallet and a mortorcycle helmet combined, apart from that why is it what you will be fully blind when the hood goes down

[sullen charm]

It's a close helmet

in a shape of a sallet

and the visor does have eyeslit on it

[fleet junco]

I forglt

[modest pecan]

in the head of battle you will be blind

[dull geode]

unlikely

[sullen charm]

[modest pecan]

explain to me how you gonna see with a centimeter of space while the helmet is sliding and wiggling around while you are getting pounded by swords

[sullen charm]

I won't try to explain colors to blind person, so i'm not gonna explain simple concepts to a dense mf online

[modest pecan]

why not

i wanna know

you know what

see me in 12 hours im stealing a sallet from my medieval museum

[dull geode]

its kinda just common sense

the helmet has a hole which you can see through

so you wont be blind

[modest pecan]

but it wiggle

[dull geode]

what gives you that idea

[modest pecan]

bike helmet

bike helmet wiggle

[dull geode]

bike helmets arent made for combat

and my bike helmet doesnt wiggle either

[hollow warren]

bike helmets should not wiggle if adjusted correctly.

[stuck pelican]

You realize this is entirely inclosed helmet, made around the wearers head and strapped in perfectly by some serf

[modest pecan]

oh so its made like clothing for rich people

[pliant minnow]

the armorsmith comes over, places the still-hot helmet on your head and slams it with a hammer from every side until it's perfectly shaped

[sullen charm]

"some serf"

I'm not sure you call a knight's page "a serf" lmfao

[sullen charm]

Harnesses are made to fit the wearer yes

[modest pecan]

that makes a lot more sense

[sullen charm]

especially parts that are supposed to the very tight like greaves for instance

[obsidian sun]

most armor is tailored to the wearer which is typically nobles or wealthy individuals, However ther is of course less finished products that would be usable for the more common folk

[vocal vale]

off-the-shelf armor was called munitions armor, they were more for the commoners and quick arming for ragtag armies

i read that the missaglia family was an expert in producing mass amounts of munitions armor

[stuck pelican]

Oh they had like entirely different titles?

[stuck pelican]

Isn’t that like most of those top half helmets seen in the early game and stuff

[vocal vale]

possibly, sallets would''ve likely been the "designated" munitions helmet because it has a bit more lenient measurement and can fit a wider variety of head shapes

the most common pieces you'd see, i believe, would be couters and poleyn, coifs, mantles, voiders, maybe gambesons

in general, supplementary pieces a knight would want would be important minimal protection a peasant or lowerclassman would need

[fleet junco]

I just scrolled up and saw this argument about the slit of the sallet

[turbid shadow]

The arming doublets

Scheke

[stuck pelican]

BIG SHEILD.

[turbid shadow]

perhaps

[stuck pelican]

Barrel lids bigger better brother

Would it be better than the big ass box sheild actually

About big sheilds… didn’t they have ones with bucklers attached

[turbid shadow]

what do you mean?

[cerulean salmon]

https://i.etsystatic.com/20424222/r/il/5cb9ea/3347722561/il_794xN.3347722561_q3ta.jpg

some kind of Chainmail would be cool to see

[stuck pelican]

BUCKLER + EXTEA WOOD

[cerulean salmon]

or maile?

one of those words

big old Viking style round shields would be cool

[stuck pelican]

I don’t think this one is accurate..

[turbid shadow]

chainmail is coming, ones that fit the time period of this game

[stuck pelican]

But

[turbid shadow]

vikings do not fit the time period of half sword which is 1430-1480

[stuck pelican]

These shields would be so nice to have, the ones that strap around the arm

Same with kite looking sheilds again

[turbid shadow]

oh these, I believe this one is some sort of a bad replica because I believe I've seen them somewhere

[stuck pelican]

I want these helmets so bad.

I think this is gothic armor

Why was it called gothic even v

I think this is older than 15th, but some small like shoulder protection would be nice for earlier teir

Same with just knee pads or semi longer

Brigandeir or whatever the vests are called

• chain Mail sleeves under or over

The Italians were up to some… GOOD.

I like the capes a lot

[turbid shadow]

we will be able to replicate that look soon, as we almost have the same shoulders

but no armets yet

[stuck pelican]

German, I think this is gothic? Idk

@turbid shadow what were the styles of armor?

I know there’s gothic

But like what is it?

These shields, this also fits EXACTLY into the time date, and the weird helmet thing going on

Can we get something like this leg armor in the middle? I don’t want full leg armor just like upper to knee

[turbid shadow]

there's plenty of forums of gothic armor, and Its a pretty hefty topic to talk about, so you'll have to search about it your self

[stuck pelican]

Idk what that man at arms has going on, but he looks SWAGGED THE FUCK OUT

Helmet with eye slots? Just upper arm protection plate
Different armor skirt flaps
And again the upper leg protection plates!
And lower arm only protection!

[turbid shadow]

oh god

[vagrant charm]

That

[stuck pelican]

I would love to have the equivalent of a medieval puffer jacket

It’s Danish

[vagrant charm]

There are a lot

[stuck pelican]

Chain maille head wrap?

[turbid shadow]

some of the stuff that you're posting looks pretty bad as they are modern Art, modern art sometime can be really inaccurate

[vagrant charm]

The art you’re posting is all wrong

[stuck pelican]

it’s a start

[stuck pelican]

What do I do then