[DUAL GPU SYSTEMS] Performance Issues and Troubleshooting

[elder smelt]

hold up lemme measure temps

[clear sundial]

yup, at least I don't think normal TIM can have those temps. Mine was running 61-64ºC with 74-77ºC hotspot

[elder smelt]

damn

better temps than me

this was at 355watts?

[clear sundial]

I was running at 300-320W (slightly undervolted it)

[elder smelt]

ah so stock of the 7900xt

[clear sundial]

yup, I wasn't enjoying seeing spikes of 400W on that card

specially with another card running LSFG

[elder smelt]

400W 👀

so something like this

[clear sundial]

It's one of the reasons I sold it. I loved it so much, but the power consumption was too much for me

[elder smelt]

rip

[clear sundial]

I wouldn't worry about yours. I would consider that way better than average

[elder smelt]

I tend to undervolt my 7900xt to 270W and with slightly higher fps than stock

but that was stock

makes sense tbh

my 7900xt is tiny asf compared to other cards

[clear sundial]

model?

[elder smelt]

reference

[clear sundial]

very interesting, I wonder if you're affected by the vapor chamber issue that some reference models had

which made temps with it sitting "up" a lot better (vertical mount)

[elder smelt]

I doubt that because those cards were hitting 105c easy

[elder smelt]

yea nope

vertical was worse for me 😄

[clear sundial]

true, but weren't those xtx models and without ptm?

[elder smelt]

yea

[clear sundial]

interesting, but still I wouldn't worry about it

[elder smelt]

I can look into it again but Its unlikely

its just a tiny card thats all

[clear sundial]

This brick was running 80ºC on the core and 107ºC hotspot with factory tim btw 😛

Now it runs at 71ºC on the core and 89ºC on the hotspot

[elder smelt]

much better

[elder smelt]

I think this is tiny atleast

[clear sundial]

I still think it's a bad cooler though, big, chunky, but bad cooler

[elder smelt]

rip

[clear sundial]

yup, that looks great for the size though!

[elder smelt]

feels like it weighs 2kg though lol

[clear sundial]

even better temps than my previous 4060 ti ventus, which I had to run it at 80% tdp in order to not hear the fans kick in semi-loud

and it's a 160W card

[elder smelt]

the hell

[elder smelt]

💀

[clear sundial]

MSI makes amazing coolers, but not ventus (or mech) models. Those suck so bad, it's insane.

[elder smelt]

after the 7900xt I honestly prefer reference cards more, atleast it is compact and not loud

[elder smelt]

I've seen mech models everywhere

[clear sundial]

It's insane how massive the jump is from Ventus to "gaming x" models. It's like comparing an intel stock cooler to a noctua nh-d15

and suprim is like putting a 360mm AIO

[elder smelt]

lmao those are big boys

[clear sundial]

yup, and I don't know if at your place is normal, but here, most refurbished models are ventus models

It's like they are ticking time bombs

[elder smelt]

I've seen ventus a lot too

2nd hand market:

with undervolt 277w

and better perf than stock

[elder smelt]

no wonder they are refurbs

all terrible coolers

[clear sundial]

exaaaactly

[ivory moon]

coolers on components are not the problem of today.
nearly all hi perf stuff has some vapour chambers and huge heatsink + whatever cheap fan (they skimp on fans SO MUCH)
it can be noisy but it will cool down said component with ease.

bad case design & air flow are real culprits. Mostly gpus and SSDs are affected.

Customers who buy cheaper GPU skews tend to look for other budget pc parts, and buy small cases with no airflow.

[versed knoll]

Casually watching my GPU appear there:

And my brother's too

[clear sundial]

I agree with you besides the 5090. The FE card will literally burn itself to oblivion once summer hits. And no, I'm not talking about the connector shenanigans.

Look at the memory temperatures right now in winter... they're already hitting above 90ºC

On a open air bench...

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-5090-founders-edition/41.html

[elder smelt]

my card does 90c memory junction too

but it never moves from that

[clear sundial]

Yeah but not on an air bench

[elder smelt]

94c open air is something else

imagine the sff people

🔥

[clear sundial]

oh and also not on a 40 dBa cooler 😛

[ivory moon]

tjmax is 100 celsius for gddr6~
everyone goes for the safe bet of 95C throttle

there are zero to non guidance for gddr7 temps
guidance "none" got me.

clown fiesta.

But one could imagine when the 5090 card gets 95C~ throttle at open case, what it would do in your typical setup: with 80C hot air nicely syphoned right from your CPU 😄

one of the reasons I want to do a dual gpu setup.. to use frame gen and not push my main card so much, as I will absolutely not buy 50xx series.

[elder smelt]

that's insane

damn am5 motherboards

trash af

am4 motherboards for sub $200 supported bifurcation but not $500 am5 ones

[ivory moon]

i got asus 650 tuf and I hope that I can believe this:

[elder smelt]

x4 with chipset

I'm looking for one with bifurication but that should be ok too

[tired quest]

Dang TUF 7900xtx is 2.9 inch thick.. welp I dunno if I wanna go single GPU (XTX) or go with evga 3080 and 6600xt. 6600xt case hasn't open and I can send it back

[ivory moon]

riser possible ? mount somewhere else or vertically. PCIE 4.0 riser is 40$

[tired quest]

If I want to use riser.. where can put it in? leave it on floor inside the case? I don't know lol

[ivory moon]

im a fan of DIY, so i would propably do that but (and gonna do exactly that), but secure the gpu somehow so it cannot move at all and still has some air intake.

underclock the core if not needed and OC the memory of needed as I heard the choke point for lsfg is memory

(gpu mem)

[tired quest]

I've been googling all the riser dual gpu setups and find nothing of it

[ivory moon]

😄 ye ... deep web on som forums logged in maybe

[elder smelt]

wdym?

I used to do dual gpu with riser 😄

[tired quest]

I'm just bit worried about my 3 inch thick XTX fitting in with my secondary 6600xt gpu.

[ivory moon]

hm... thunderbolt gpu setup ? the cases are 150$ 😄

[tired quest]

I might have messed up. I've ordered the pc parts before I found out people using dual gpus with LSFG

[elder smelt]

pc case has no vertical slots?

[versed knoll]

When an b650's manual couldn't tell me straight if the second slot was pcie 3.0 x4 or not, that was when I knew something was wrong

[elder smelt]

its that bad huh

devolving from am4

[tired quest]

Fractal Design North ATX mATX Mid Tower PC Case - Charcoal Black Chassis with Walnut Front and Mesh Side Panel

[elder smelt]

the only motherboard that has what I want is the proart mobos

[elder smelt]

rip

doesn't seem like it

[ivory moon]

mATX are not really made to fit even one big gpu inside, but its gonna be tight fit even with riser for 2

[tired quest]

yeah I'm f up lol

[elder smelt]

my case isn't the greatest but man it has space

had vertical slots

felt like I hit the jackpot

[tired quest]

oh well I can go single GPU with XTX and send 6600xt back

[elder smelt]

well dual amd cards is gone

so uhh

yep

[ivory moon]

ww its not for you ?
what did they put there xD

[tired quest]

Maybe I'll do this in like 5 years lol

[versed knoll]

"noooo look at the table nooooo don't ask straight away"

And the table was a convoluted mess

[elder smelt]

gigabyte boards are even worse when it comes to pcie slots

from what I saw

[ivory moon]

yea but IS your secondary pcie on that 650m?
PCIE1x1 ? 😄

[versed knoll]

I was looking at b650's to pick one for a friend since he wants to go for a ryzen 7 9800x3d

But wanted to choose one with potential for a second GPU if he ever wants to do it

and I kid you some motherboards I never found out what the second slot actually ran at

[elder smelt]

did you manage to find anything 😅

its like a wasteland there

proart mobos are the only ones and they barely exist

[versed knoll]

no

[elder smelt]

rip

what did he go for at the end?

[versed knoll]

but my friend told me he would rather hit his buggy gtx 1650 with a sledgehammer than repurpose it for a second GPU

[elder smelt]

lmao

[versed knoll]

So I guess any b650 is fine

[versed knoll]

I would only run micro ATX case if I had a decent integrated graphics CPU or a micro ATX b550 and miraculously got an rx 6400

[elder smelt]

crazy

[clear sundial]

It arrived 🗿

[ivory moon]

how... how ... air ? 😄

[mental peak]

No air, only hope

[clear sundial]

The temps are fine, but I'm considering putting something like this behind https://www.amazon.es/euroharry-Ventilador-tarjeta-Ventilador-Enfriador/dp/B08TZSYJ8J?__mk_es_ES=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=1921DTYFPFD70&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.h3svZZgM9eYkFu0a2gF0410Xr_mnbOhiEjn7Si51ZZ38AuCZBjlm5BUMVNLZxcvbeaIogw9-IAS4ZfYo0n_q8YFFURPX8W9m6lsVaeAcS5jLInB8w4b8qbsykjABCH7fSgZBH686w6us3QekJ9TAzbQe_F2bdC9mrbYvF10_esmYfoSZZARrQ9rgl6lc_ZeF9rs3A9_YxZDmelwr93wWKNAiqrsDCMkkdI2fWMvREfIP7dTZnnCtFF5KjcK3hphM1svTE5sUBirrk5MoEzpCDpQwB2nBCLq8_VeqC2XzwRlHjRA9MxbbWJCdX2pGUl9hIIX7CZwCNFp2gArCsZCVAPwjS5O_G0SH2WPuo-MLwmuHnPWV-j_FuAl3on7rg_nwAwlKN0iAF69eKxVmzhmnOtMkyqHxAMY5QKs5jJbMp6DZF9qfL6ZWgOrCaIZXvYZw.0ZrcsMkTZ2JX-q9GKNqnCO6EifPNkZRW8yxzoiaq12A&dib_tag=se&keywords=pci-e+fan+mount&qid=1740057774&sprefix=pci-e+fan+mount%2Caps%2C113&sr=8-22

to pull hot air from below

[rain hull]

What is that

[clear sundial]

Basically a way to install a row of fans on a PCI case bracket

[versed knoll]

Damn, based

[rain hull]

I mean what GPUs are those

[clear sundial]

ah whoops, my bad. I was on mobile and didn't see the correct reply.

They are MSI RTX 3070 suprim (top) and MSI RTX 4080 Suprim X at the bottom

[onyx warren]

Aww, they are cuddling

[versed knoll]

MSI RTX(3070 + 4080)

Reminds me of my and my brother's GPUs

His MSI Mech RX 5700 looks very similar to my MSI Ventus 2x RTX 3060 12GB

[clear sundial]

well rip, it seems that less mm of clearance destroyed my temps

that's with 80% power limit btw

[versed knoll]

OOF

Yeah this ain't no RDNA1 GPU to be looking at such high hotspot temperatures

[clear sundial]

1mm of extra clearance reduced temps by 10ºC and fan speed to half

[versed knoll]

Are they already undervolted?

[clear sundial]

but with my motherboard and case config I can't push it higher. The 4080 has amazing temps though

[clear sundial]

only 80% power limit on the 3070

These are the 4080 temps

[versed knoll]

My RTX 3060 regularly reached 80°C with no undervolt

[clear sundial]

yeah but this is a suprim card, has amazing temps but I literally have <1mm clearance with the bottom card. It's being chocked

these are the temps when I gave it +1mm clearance

[rain hull]

It's a miracle that it's not thermal throttling lol

[tired quest]

4080 Suprim
Width
140 mm
142 mm
5.5 inches
5.6 inches
Do you have to use Full Tower case for dual gpus? I'm just learning your ways.

[versed knoll]

This is mine

[plucky crow]

I have a question. I put my pc together as dual gpu. I ran Spider-Man 2 without activating lsfg in this state. But sub gpu still works. Is this normal?

My personal computer specification
i7 6700k
gtx1070(main) + rx6400 (dp connected)

Interestingly, even though my pc is a low specification that doesn't even meet the game's FHD recommended specifications, the game runs smoothly with a very amazing QHD resolution + high preset.

[plucky crow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6zfTd-3EXk

afmf2 off, fsr3.1.3 fg on

[elder smelt]

the 2nd gpu working without lsfg is due to the gpu passthrough

the frames that are rendered from the 1070 still get sent to the 6400

that shows up as the usage you see

[tired quest]

GTX 1000 series achieved the goat status!

[elder smelt]

my setup when I was trying to get dual gpus working 💀

don't mind the cables and the dust

or the duct taped ssd

or mixed ram

[tired quest]

lol I don't mind.. I see a Vertical GPU slot. thats nice

you using riser right?

[elder smelt]

yup

if my setup worked, that system would have been a beast

temps weren't bad

but my issue screwed it all up

[tired quest]

I noticed you guys use fan cpu coolers, so the AIO block CPU cooler don't conflict it right?

[elder smelt]

if it doesn't take too much space, it should be good

[tired quest]

awesome!

[elder smelt]

you're still planning to use dual gpus?

[tired quest]

yeah I plan it someday in the future

[elder smelt]

nice

[tired quest]

but right now I'm broke

lol

[elder smelt]

same lol

I wanna go to am5 for that pcie gen 4 but the motherboards are complete ass

no bifurication support unless I spend a crapton

[plucky crow]

So you're saying that sub gpu isn't affecting performance at all?

[elder smelt]

best I can do is gen 4 x4

[elder smelt]

it can if it gets too overloaded with frames but your 1070 is no where near that powerful for that

you're good

[tired quest]

Yeah I noticed some mobo are expensive if I wanna get Bifurication like 8x 8x

[elder smelt]

I can get an import mobo that has it for like $600 aud

still expensive asf

and who knows what the warranty is like

[tired quest]

I noticed some people here using pcie chipset slot instead of pcieCPU slot.. does it make it any difference?

[plucky crow]

My poop-like pc got weird after the dual gpu installation.

[elder smelt]

it might

[elder smelt]

that card is tiny wtf

[tired quest]

yeah 1000 series is a small gpu

[plucky crow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9Ufqr4_nVE&t=5s

[elder smelt]

tbh I think it could be related to my issue

[tired quest]

I think its around 1.5 in thick

[elder smelt]

but dranas got it fixed with pcie 4 x8 x8

so not sure

but 99% of people use chipset slot

could be related

[tired quest]

I see

[plucky crow]

The big gpu is 1070.
The small gpu is rx6400

[tired quest]

thats a badass 6400 gpu lol

[plucky crow]

My 1070 is powerful.

[tired quest]

Yeah its a good card

[plucky crow]

My 1070 will break the head of 3070.

[tired quest]

this small 6400 gpu doing the 1440p FG

thats amazing

[plucky crow]

I turned on the fsr frame generation, and the vram usage of the sub gpu increased.

[tired quest]

fsr from LSFG or the amd software?

[plucky crow]

only fsr

[tired quest]

Can you try SGSR scaling from LSFG app?

or LS1 with performance option checked

[versed knoll]

That's adorable

I wanna see an RTX 4090 next to an RX 6400 now

[tired quest]

lol

[plucky crow]

The lsfg program itself has not been executed.

[elder smelt]

more frames = more usage

that applies for vram too I guess

[tired quest]

oh yeah 6400 doing the FG can raise up the vram usage

[elder smelt]

yes

[plucky crow]

But the one that actually uses fg is 1070.

In fact, the 1070 increase in utilization when using fg.

[elder smelt]

^

if your 1070 is outputting more frames, the 6400 will have to work harder too

[plucky crow]

Do I need a vram for operation?

[elder smelt]

wdym?

its just what happens when you transfer frames between 2 gpus

lsfg will use even more vram but it should be enough for anything you are doing

[rain hull]

You make it sound like you're talking about passthrough

When a higher framerate is being inputted into LS, it uses more GPU

[plucky crow]

I understand. Are you saying that rx6400 also needs vram to output additional frames to the screen?

[rain hull]

Yes, because a GPU needs VRAM to function

LS doesn't use much VRAM though, and when you're offloading it to a secondary GPU, it has no impact on the render GPUs VRAM

so VRAM is mostly out of the picture when it comes to dual GPUs

[plucky crow]

I didn't use lsfg, but rx6400 is responsible for screen output, so I'm going to use vram more to process more frames?

[rain hull]

Not VRAM, no, but PCIe bandwidth, because more data is being transferred

The data doesn't stay in the VRAM though, it just copies through it

[plucky crow]

But I didn't run lsfg and the vram increased. I only enabled fsrfg.

[rain hull]

Oh. By how much did it increase?

[plucky crow]

100mb

[rain hull]

What if you go into a game menu where you typically easily get hundreds of FPS

[plucky crow]

I can't try it now.

The main 1070 increased by about 300mb,
The rx6400 increased by about 100mb.

Only fsr fg

[rain hull]

Makes sense, yeah Opbush was probably right

More frames copying means more VRAM usage ig

A negligible amount though. Not sure how much VRAM it's using on the render GPU

[broken solar]

@rain hullUnfortunately my problem wasn't resolved by resetting NVCP to default values.

Here is a screenshot of my HWINFO while I'm running Fortnite, just sitting in the menu with 120 FPS. It seems weird to me that the 4070 Ti Super is under max load, but just pulling 25% of its TDP.
Anyone see anything odd that could possibly be the reason for the 4070 not bringing the performance, like it does in the top PCIE Slot?

Usually it would be around 70% Utilization there

[clear sundial]

I'm using a Fractal Design Torrent Solid which is a pretty big case yes

[tired quest]

Thanks I'm exicted to see your dual gpu results!

[clear sundial]

I'm going to swap my 3070 for the 6800 I sold to a friend to see if the LSFG card can breathe, since it has 3mm more of clearance

If it doesn't work, I'll have to try running a PCI-E adapter with dual 120mm fans behind the card to pull hot air from the cooler, to see if it helps the card to not thermal throttle

When I removed the 3070 yesterday, it was so damn hot to the touch that it was almost burning my fingers, since it's a metal cooler

[clear sundial]

what motherboard are you running? and CPU?

and it seems you're CPU bottlenecked, look at CPU busy metric

That's actually pretty interesting, I never thought about checking that metric when I was having issues. It could really be a CPU bottleneck issue when running LSFG

[broken solar]

@clear sundial here are my specs

[broken solar]

Hm, but that's actually without any FG on

[clear sundial]

PCI-E 3.0 x4 you're completely bottlenecked by the slot

PCI-E 3.0 x4 is already low bandwidth, but running it as a chipset slot will completely tank performance. Your chipset is probably overloaded, giving you CPU spikes

Unfortunately, since we can't measure chipset usage with software, there's no way to be 100% sure, but considering I was having issues with PCI-E 4.0 x4 (chipset), that's probably it

https://www.aorus.com/motherboards/z690-gaming-x-ddr4-rev-10/Specification

[clear sundial]

You are running your main card (4070TIS) at the bottom slot, or at the top?

[broken solar]

This actually makes sense lol. Are there MOBOs that have 2 PCIE slots directly running to the CPU?

[broken solar]

At the bottom right now. While in the top slot, all games refused to use it as the render GPU

[clear sundial]

On am5 yes, so it's probably the same for intel chips, but they are expensive

[broken solar]

Which I find weird in itself

[clear sundial]

The easiest way for you to take advantage of your current setup, imo, would be running the main GPU on the same slot as you're running and locking the FPS 60. Then use LSFG to interpolate frames using the closest multiplier to your monitor's refresh rate

PCI-E dictates the max FPS you're going to run, so your 4060 should be installed in the fastest slot of your system

[clear sundial]

You need to make sure your advanced graphics settings in Windows have the 4070 ti S as the "performance GPU"

like this

If, you need high base FPS, you're going to need to be running at high PCI-E speeds. If you only care about interpolated frames, then the LSFG GPU needs to be run on the fastest slot and the "main gpu" on the other slot

[broken solar]

I did and tried it both on Windows 10 and 11.

[broken solar]

Well then this is a deal breaker. The game I'm playing a lot right now (Kingdom Come Deliverance 2) crashes instantly with this configuration. And the performance drop means I'd have to resort to higher FG multiples, ruining input latency.
As it stands I'll stay with a single GPU setup, possibly upgrading that in the future. Brings me better performance all around. Quite unfortunate

[clear sundial]

Yeah understandable

[unborn sluice]

Windows version: 23h2
Driver(s) version: latest nvidia
GPUs used: render RTX3080, lsfg RX6400
Platform information (CPU+Mobo): intel i9 11900k - ASUS PRIME Z590-P Intel
How monitors are connected and used: 1 single 4k monitor via displayport to the RX6400
Any anomalies:
Weird performance loss. I used to play with lsfg with the window mode check because it reduces drastically the latency (hardware indepentent flip), but now with the dual gpu setup, not only is a stuttery mess, but the performance is terrible and the fps cap doesnt work (at least it never show i capped to 30-40fps, it always fluctuate like uncapped fps). when i uncheck the window mode, it doesn't stutter but it doesn't reach the desired performance at any resolution, i tried even in 1080p with the resolution scale all the way down

for a reason the pcie is capable of 4.0 but its working on 3.0, in any case, it should be enough for 2k

i'm using DXGI since WGC is not wirking properly on 23h2

[rain hull]

It's probably not getting nearly as much PCIe bandwidth in the bottom slot.

[snow sparrow]

I think it is enough badwidth for that card, but its still sitting on the chipset rather than on cpu, could lead to some latency, but his issue is different

[snow sparrow]

All monitors connected to lsfg gpu?

[unborn sluice]

i just have 1, and its connected to the lsfg gpu

via DP

i'm just testing, it has to be a bandwidth problem, now it run "as expected" without window mode checked in lsfg but its not nearly as powerful as stated in the gpu chart

because if i want 40x3 ->120 i have to lower the resolution scale below 50%

and for me its really distracting all the UI artifacts at 50%

when i run lsfg in windowed mode it just doesnt cap my fps and its a stuttery mess

i don't know, my 3080 was capable of running lsfg flawlessly, my only concern was the performance hit in the VRAM, that some games required me to lower my resolution a lot, but thats it

and with the dual setup at minimum resolution and resolution scale still induces more latency than when i was using my 3080 alone

[onyx warren]

What is the bandwidth for the 6400?

[onyx warren]

That should be enough tbh

[rain hull]

No, PCIe 3.0 x4 simply cannot transfer that much data

[unborn sluice]

128gbps

at least is what it shows in my pc

[rain hull]

3.0 x4 has 4gb/s of bandwidth

[unborn sluice]

the thing is, my pcie is 4.0, but its working in 3.0 for some reason

is there a way to change that?

[onyx warren]

You can usually choose the PCIe Gen in the bios

Default is most likely Auto

[rain hull]

Chances are your motherboard is wired that way

I'd check the manual to see what the expansion slots run at

[unborn sluice]

i'm not even capable of running 30x2 at 50% scale resolution xD what a shame

[broken solar]

I also read somewhere that everything using the PCIE Chipset is sharing the bandwidth. Maybe that also plays into it

[unborn sluice]

meh, i'm disappointed, guides misleaded me, they say with a 3.0 could be enough for 2k and i can't even run at 1080, and also the rx6400 was enough too, i'm not sure what i'm doing wrong, or if im not wrong and things are like this

[versed knoll]

I didn't mislead anyone

https://youtu.be/3LPsDKEv3V8?si=kmco9NGpIbGsvEX5

My set-up runs my rx 6600m on pcie 3.0 x4

And perfectly at that

[fallow scarab]

I'm playing Kingdom Come right now and there's a dual GPU issue. Even if I don't apply lsfg, the game won't start in a dual GPU configuration. Here, the 3070 is the master GPU and the second GPU is the 1070Ti. Also, the DP monitor output is output to the 1070Ti, and in this situation, if you select 3070 as the default high-performance GPU for Windows 11, the game will not start. However, if I connect the monitor cable to the 3070, the game will start. Conversely, if I select the 1070Ti as the default high-performance GPU, it will run. There seems to be a dual GPU issue with CryEngine. Does anyone know how to fix this?

[wary wraith]

4090 + RTX A4000, i cant get A4000 working right in this mobo. Probably get a different mobo this weekend

[mental peak]

Should I send back my 4060 and get a 7600XT instead for ls? They're about the same price here. Is the 7600XT better than the 4060?

I'm assuming it wouldn't be better at handling graphics than the 4070 I already have

I also don't see that card in the dual GPU chart, depending on if you guys think I should get it, I could test and add it

[rain hull]

When I used 4.0 x16 + 3.0 x4 (secondary), it limited base FPS passthrough to around 220fps. Sylux's might be lower than mine for that reason, but their motherboard isn't going to be passing through 1440p 360fps any time soon.

[rain hull]

You could, though 7600s are known to have massive stability issues when running LS (as in, sudden full system shutdown).
The rx7000 series also seems to not have improved much from the 6000 series for LSFG at all.

[versed knoll]

He should get a 6650 xt instead

[mental peak]

That one is better than the 4060 for ls?

[versed knoll]

The 6650 xt did better at LSFG than a 7600, but I don't know if the 7600 was better than a 4060

[mental peak]

I guess I was only thinking about vram

[vivid zealot]

So.. im.not sure id call this a performance issue but on my 5080ti (pcie 5 x16) and 4070 (pcie 3.0 x4) i get 190ish base fps on Cyberpunk benchmark with no LSFG but when lsfg is active I only get 140ish base.

Granted I am running 4k with low settings to get the base rate that high.

Is this the cpu overhead from lsfg? I assume I am cou bottlnecked here even thought I am only at about 60% usage.

Ah nevermind, as I was testing again with rt overdrive as i was typing that, I saw only 1-2fps drop. So I guess it is cpu.

[mental peak]

whats your cpu

[rain hull]

You mean pcie 4.0 x4?

[vivid zealot]

Nope

Intel z690 the second port in an pcie 3.0 x16 in length but x4 in bandwith

The 3rd pcie is pcie 3.0 x16 size but only 1x in bandwith.

[rain hull]

Dang, it's a miracle that that's transferring 190fps at 4k

When I tested 3.0 x4 it hard capped FPS to 85

I find it hard to believe that that's actually 3.0 x4

[vivid zealot]

Will show you a gpuz when I get back home.

Actually I have screenshot of manual.

Msi tomahawk z690 ddr4

[tired quest]

this tomahawk is doing 155 base 555FG with your GPU setup? Damn I should have kept my x670e Tomahawk

[vivid zealot]

Somethings off i think. I just did the maths 4k at 32bit pp work out at about 33MB per frame raw at fps it works out at about 4.9GB/s.. PCIE 3.p x4 should top out at 4GB/s.. unless there is something sort of compression in use 😕

[elder smelt]

yea weird

I do know of a compression that amd can use but its for vram only I think

but it could also help pcie maybe

[vivid zealot]

Perhaps.

[elder smelt]

just realised you used nvidia 💀

I'm sure they use vram compression stuff too

[onyx warren]

Perhaps

[elder smelt]

indeed.

[mental peak]

Fun fact about my stutters in Helldivers 2, the base framerate is just that bad. Played without lsfg and my fps goes down from 46 to 25 out of nowhere. It HAS to be the game and their new update. Not ruling out any other issues than could be the culprit, but HD2's case, its that bad

[elder smelt]

every time I hear about helldivers 2, they get worse and worse each update

[mental peak]

The performance just tanks no matter the system, it's the main reason I stopped playing. What made me come back to it was discovering lossless scaling

[vivid zealot]

Over 1000fps on timespy extreme
4k with lsfg 😕 - that just doesn't sound possible, but its what I am getting.

[onyx warren]

Bro got the PCIe slot of infinite power and bandwidth

[vivid zealot]

Its looking that way 😱

[onyx warren]

Just don't ask any more questions

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-12869046600151364058

[versed knoll]

Maybe chipset lottery is a thing now

[elder smelt]

maybe cpu lane lottery is a thing too considering my situation 😄

[vivid zealot]

Maybe I got your lanes 🤷‍♀️

[elder smelt]

@clear sundial was pcie 4 x4 not enough bandwidth for your setup? or you haven't tried it before

[versed knoll]

I don't own a 4k monitor, but used Virtual Super Resolution on my AMD RX 6600M, my chipset pcie 3.0 x4 slot allowed a maximum of 82 base fps

[elder smelt]

that's crazy

1000fps

what black magic is this

[vivid zealot]

Im gonna test more thoroughly tomorrow because the math dont math.

[elder smelt]

indeed

my goofy setup loses 20fps just by having a secondary card 😭

and here he is with casual 1k

[vivid zealot]

Not 1000fps base obviously but lsfg generated.. i just cranked it up to max multiplier and set the scale to 25%

[elder smelt]

what was the base you could get?

[vivid zealot]

Cant remember the base frames but it was sub 100.

[elder smelt]

hmm

[vivid zealot]

Im in bed now so can't check.

Or maybe im talking sh*te.. i honestly cant remember I ran so many different benches.

But itbserves no purpose at all in the real world.

Just a shame none of this works for vr.. fs 2024 in vr is my thing at the moment.

[clear sundial]

it felt similar to PCI 2.0 x8 when I was testing it. But I do have a lot of USB devices plugged in, so... not great

[elder smelt]

damn, looks like rng with motherboards ngl

[clear sundial]

I'm gonna retest the 6800 I've used before on that config (PCI-E 4.0 x4) which I think was the huge bottleneck, since I can't use the 3070 on my system without thermal throttling

[elder smelt]

pcie 4 x4 being a bottleneck is crazy

[clear sundial]

yes but it isn't "true PCI-E 4.0 x4". It's PCI-E 4.0 x4 shared with every other chipset device

every USB and sata device shares those PCI-E lanes

And on AM4 platforms, the chipset is bottlenecked by PCI 3.0 x4 connection to the CPU https://www.overclockers.ua/motherboard/asus-prime-x370-pro/01-asus-prime-x370-pro.png

this is why chipset PCI-E performance is very inconsistent

[elder smelt]

I see, so cpu lanes are the only true pcie performance

[elder smelt]

yea most people seem fine with it though

[clear sundial]

this is AM5 https://images.anandtech.com/doci/17585/SoC_25.png

[clear sundial]

I bet most people aren't playing at 4K

[elder smelt]

true

[onyx warren]

I do tho

[elder smelt]

that performance hit of yours 🤨

[clear sundial]

Which is why the dev recommended 50% res scale at 4K. It reduces the data traveling massively, even without big image loss. At 80% res scale, even my 4060 ti didn't drop fps a single time.

[onyx warren]

So AM5 chipset should be better with handling another GPU?

[clear sundial]

technically yes, but you have a lot more ways to spend that bandwidth with faster devices. So if you have fast USB devices plugged in, those will steal a lot of bandwidth

[elder smelt]

honestly my performance hit acts like a pcie bottleneck ngl

[clear sundial]

the safest way is to have a CPU PCI-E slot reserved to the LSFG GPU

[elder smelt]

$$$ mobo

[onyx warren]

All my usb slots are basically filled

[clear sundial]

I had to buy a powered USB hub, so that explains why I can't have the same experience as ravenger 😛

[elder smelt]

how much usb wtf

I tend to use overkill amounts of usb too but thats just something else

[clear sundial]

It's more of ease of access. When you have a 20KG case and you have to shuffle USB pen drives, it becomes conbersome

And another thing is that AM5 motherboards, unlike AM4, skimp out on USB slots a lot, unless you pay more than double the price.

[broken solar]

I also have like 8 USB + Sata devices plugged in lol

maybe should try another time without all those plugged in

[clear sundial]

It seems it doesn't fit... Fml

Too fat

I'll need to find a dual slot card max

[onyx warren]

The salami lid

Won't fit

[clear sundial]

I looked into techpowerup database and it told me it was 3mm leaner compared to the 3070 suprim, but that's not true since the 3070 suprim fits, while this one doesn't

[onyx warren]

Sue them

[clear sundial]

My last hope will be this:

[clear sundial]

Hey, do you by any chance have that glorious 3D print blueprint for the fan mounted on top of the GPU?

[clear sundial]

Does this look fine for you guys?

[vivid zealot]

I got this when my fans failed. A couple of decent fans ats its better than a stock cooler

[wary wraith]

Bought it from this guy https://www.etsy.com/listing/1417013236/active-gpu-backplate-cooling-120mm-fan?ref=yr_purchases

[clear sundial]

Thanks ❤️

[cedar mango]

3090 Ti + 4060, can achieve 100% resolution on FG, 4060 is in a PCIe4 @ 4x slot.

[versed knoll]

What's the resolution and framerate?

[cedar mango]

4K @ 60, framlimiter with RTSS (Reflex)

2X FG = 120 at 100% resolution

Game is stuck forever at 120, it doesn't even lower 1 FPS on an entire match, I'm so happy.

[onyx warren]

But why are you using 55GB RAM?

[versed knoll]

He's a legend

[cedar mango]

hahah

I have Primo Cache with 32GB of RAM Cache for the storage with 60 seconds delay write, obviously I have an UPS.

That program can literally turn your SSD into a speed demon

I have 128GB of RAM btw. You absolutely need tons of RAM for that program

The software is miles better than the standard "write cache" that Windows does.
https://www.romexsoftware.com/en-us/primo-cache/index.html

Works on Windows 10, 11, LTSC, you name it. It's an amazing piece of software.

[versed knoll]

Damn, you have made me curious now

[mental peak]

what cpu do you have ? I struggle to run helldivers 2 past 40 to 50 fps. I'm curious how you got to stable 60

[ivory moon]

after testing what 1050ti can do, frame latency etc with 4090 as a render gpu,
im srsly considering buying 6650xt. It seems to work.

I just need to find how gsync/freesync works in dual gpu setup configurations.

[onyx warren]

Depends on the card that is connected to your monitors.
Gsync for Nvidia and FreeSync for AMD

[mental peak]

I'm really interested i using this? I got 64 GB of ram. Can you use it for everything or is it just for games ?

[ivory moon]

yeye, but when you are not using lsfg, and your render gpu is nvidia but your output one is AMD, that is a problem no ?

[onyx warren]

No, you just use Freesync

[ivory moon]

oh, great. ty

[onyx warren]

FreeSync and Gsync are not game dependant so it doesn't matter if you actively use the card or not

[versed knoll]

For the first time, I see these numbers

[ivory moon]

😄 I've seen 1.5tb ram usage at our prod server node...

but try to mod fallout 4. I overfilled 24gb VRAM & 64gm RAM with that.

[elder smelt]

I too run primocache but I use l2 cache instead

Got 2 128gb ssds, put software raid on them and made it the l2 cache in primocache

So far works great

[mental peak]

What ssd would you recommend? Is 1tb for caching too much for just games?

[elder smelt]

1tb is overkill imo

Just use any drive your willing to sacrifice

I use spare 128gb because i have no use for them

[mental peak]

I see

[elder smelt]

my games load faster than my nvme now 🗣️

On a hdd

[mental peak]

Should I prioritize write speed of the cache SSD instead of the actual storage on said drive

Like 256gb but with better read and write speed than a 1tb

[elder smelt]

Sure that would be good

But its not a huge deal

[mental peak]

Since I have 64gb of RAM, I could allocate like 20 for caching?

[elder smelt]

if you want to, ram cache is obviously faster than l2 cache

really depends on what you want from it

right now I use 300mb of ram just as write cache

it takes load off my hdd

and does extremely fast writes for those 300mb

[mental peak]

Faster video game cache and audio files that I move a lot between SSDs, I also have lots of games of on both my main SSDs. If the work of writing could be off loaded to another drive and spare RAM, that's pretty much what I'm looking for

[elder smelt]

hmm so you want more writing cache

[mental peak]

And for that usage, I guess 256gb is more than enough? Like every games' cache plus regular files

[elder smelt]

its a bit risky imo without a ups

[mental peak]

What's a ups

[elder smelt]

yea should be good

[elder smelt]

its like a backup power supply incase the electricity goes out

or a unexpected crash happens

write cache can lose data in those situations

[mental peak]

Ah I see, I've never had any of those so I'm not super worried

[elder smelt]

well better safe than sorry imo

but its up to you

how big are you gonna go with write cache?

1gb?

[mental peak]

That's the part I'm not sure on, or what it exactly means

[elder smelt]

so write cache basically writes everything to ram and slowly writes it on the target drive

1gb = 1gb of data in ram

but you have instant access to it as if its already on that drive

[mental peak]

And RAM does it in the background

[elder smelt]

yea with primocache

[mental peak]

Cause I can spare lots of ram

[elder smelt]

I don't recommend you make it big

you have primocache rn?

[mental peak]

Not yet but very soon, I'll buy a new drive for it

[elder smelt]

okay then

you will understand most of this stuff its pretty simple in the gui

also don't worry about block size

just make it 64kb or 128kb

up to you

[elder smelt]

hdd with primocache

hdd without

basically got my sata ssd speeds on it

even my 300MB of write cache did something

[mental peak]

But the file has to be transferred at least once for it to be written to cache? Those speed are only possible because the cache SSD knows that file already if I'm right?

[elder smelt]

yea for read cache it does

which is why games get huge boosts from it

repetitive loading

[mental peak]

Bought a new SSD, will buy primocache when I get it

[elder smelt]

theres a free trial

30 days

you can try it right now with that

just use ram and see what it does for you

[versed knoll]

I don't think I ever saw genshin running this smoothly before without needing to resort to a fps cap

primocache is like magic

[elder smelt]

it is

on hdd?

[versed knoll]

SSD, but I remember showing to @rain hull how inconsistent the frametime graph was before

[elder smelt]

oh damn

[onyx warren]

Did you give it 1GB?

[elder smelt]

I remember when relo was playing the first decendent and it was eating his ssd

then with primocache it fixed it

[versed knoll]

I have no idea what a reasonable number is so I gave it half of my RAM (20 GB)

[onyx warren]

Genshin is really bad with frame drops, so if that helps I might just try it out

[versed knoll]

I still get the dip from first-time load

[elder smelt]

helps me tremendously in 7 days to die

[versed knoll]

But then it becomes extremely smooth

[elder smelt]

you could probably even do like 8gb

[onyx warren]

I get dips like every few seconds when exploring. It's so annoying

[elder smelt]

yea loading stutters

it will help with that

[onyx warren]

How much at least does it need to help with that?

[elder smelt]

4gb minimum

[onyx warren]

I guess I could also give it like 8

I rarely go above 20 out of 32GB used

[elder smelt]

I used to use 4gb with 32gb of ram

but 8 is better

[onyx warren]

This good?

[versed knoll]

Looks good to me

[elder smelt]

yes

[onyx warren]

Ok then

[elder smelt]

isn't 8gb 8192MB

ocd

[onyx warren]

Possible

Actually seems a lot smoother now, even though it's already installed on an Nvme SSD

[elder smelt]

my experience too

hdd with primocache > nvme

[onyx warren]

PCs are really something

[versed knoll]

Yeah all of my hoyoverse games run on a SSD

I tried it on Black Ops 6's Warzone too

Less stuttering

[onyx warren]

Graph is literally flat now

I mean

I'm too spoiled now with LS.
An inconsistent 100-120 FPS feels so bad now 💀

Problem is I'm probably gonna upgrade my motherboard in a few months, so I'd probably need to buy primocache again after

[elder smelt]

upgrade to am5?

or just mobo

[onyx warren]

Yes am5

[elder smelt]

oh nice

[onyx warren]

And now I'm even tempted to go for 64gb ram

[elder smelt]

same

but those am5 boards are so ass

[onyx warren]

True

[versed knoll]

I'll stay wth AM4 for at the very least another 2 years

[elder smelt]

im back to 16gb of ram so I'm crying rn

[versed knoll]

primocache solved one of my main gripes with staying on AM4

[onyx warren]

My 3800X is already struggling with something like HZD.
It sometimes goes as high as 80% usage on all 16 Threads

[versed knoll]

which was stuttering

[elder smelt]

I just want dual gpu support and huge ram with good speeds

$260 aud for 64gb of ddr5 ram is something

cheapest I could find tbh

[onyx warren]

Ram prices are so low compared to other pc components it's wild

[elder smelt]

yup mobo is gonna cost me so much

to get bifurication support its a minimum of $600

insanity

[versed knoll]

A 16gb DDR4 3200mhz stick costs me 20 bucks

[onyx warren]

Crazy

4 Sticks 64gb less than 100

[rain hull]

Usd tho

[versed knoll]

20 usd

[wary wraith]

Why is my frame higher than the what the games set to in lossless?

[onyx warren]

Magic

[wary wraith]

Base frames i mean, games at 80, lossless says 89

Turned off hwinfo fixed it

Now im back to dropping frames on my 2nd gpu

Lol . Turning off msi aftrburner overlay fixed it

[onyx warren]

💀

[wary wraith]

Doesnt do that on my amd build

[plucky crow]

I conducted the test on the 4070ti super + rx6400 system yesterday.
This pc's motherboard is b660m and supports pcie4.0.

The vram of the second gpu (6400) has not changed at all, regardless of whether the frame is increased or not, and always stays at 60mb.

Wouldn't frame increase in dual gpu have no effect on dual gpu's sub vram?

[vivid zealot]

Both the gpu and ram should be utilised if dual gpu is in use.

[plucky crow]

When I play Spider-Man 2 with my pc, my stutter appears despite being a very stable base fps.

For example, if you set 60fps x 2 in that game, you don't get 120fps and it's 116 to 118.

Other games didn't have this problem. Base fps is very stable and overall usage is low, but it does cause problems.

Does lsfg performance fluctuate depending on the game?

[ivory moon]

If overlay causes problems, it's can be related to MPO support.
Your GPU & Monitor & OS have to support it.

Check in special-k if your card suports this.

One of the few thing I have to check regarding dual GPU setup, this HAS to behave correctly otherwise its a no go for me.

Using WCG in LSFG should completely eliminate the need for MPO support but.. i find the delay unbearable, maybe its placebo but something is off about WCG+VRR.

[left cape]

recently downloaded this. even though both my os and games are downloaded on a pretty fast m.2, it fixed a lot of frametime inconsistencies, my graph is practically flat.

godsend my man

didnt affect 1%/.1% lows but capping framerate obviously fixes that

[wary wraith]

thanks for the info, i dont think the RTX A4000 supports MPO

[sleek nexus]

Hi all- just set up a 4090 as primary and 4060 as secondary. I have set Windows to use the 4090 as the preferred GPU, but when I open Fortnite and click in, I see both GPUs spike in usage- I doubt this is normal and I doubt this is a game issue. Anyone run into something similar with other setups/games?

[mental peak]

Go in nvidia app, search for Fortnite and check the cuda cores setting at the bottom, uncheck the 4060 from it and see if that happens again

[versed knoll]

Copying over the video and frames takes GPU usage

But if it's just that the game for some reason is running on the 4060, try what Pyro suggested

[rain hull]

Depending on resolution and PCIe bandwidth, it's normal for the secondary GPU to hover around 15-40% usage due to video copying to it in a game.

[plucky crow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45a77UU5efI

Perfectly solved the stutter in the game.
Changing the cpu priority of lsfg to 'high' greatly affected it.

gtx1070 + rx600 + intel i7-6700k

[rain hull]

Huh

[plucky crow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9Ufqr4_nVE

Game = cpu priority 'high'
lsfg = cpu priority 'normal'

[rain hull]

I see

That is definitely something to note

[plucky crow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68HijgDBteI

game = cpu priority 'high'
lsfg = cpu priority 'high'

lsfg to cpu priority 'high', Setting the cpu priority for the game to 'normal' was the most stable.

[onyx warren]

I just noticed that when my performance "degrades" while in-game it seems the cause of it is that at some point my main GPU just stops going over ~81-83% usage in GPU bound cases

[versed knoll]

That's korean 😭 @brave mesa

[cedar mango]

Everything. It sits almost at the kernel level.

[versed knoll]

Yesterday I used it and got caught off guard when an area change in HSR happened instantly

Everyone that doesn't utilize all of their RAM should use this

[cedar mango]

Yes, L2 SSD as buffer for HDD is great.
But I already have NVMe (no HDD) so for me, RAM > NVMe
We are talking about 24GB/s vs 6.5GB/s. And you can really feel that SSD is near instant. I use a huge 32GB cache for my NVMe with a 70 second write delay with an UPS that can hold up to 10 minutes. Check this crazy score, this is an SN850X btw.

Near 5GB/s on 4k-64Thrd is major craziness!

People don't realize just how much of an impact a good Caching system has on the storage. I bet at least half of the stuttering people experience in games is due to poor reading/writing patterns in games.. things that PrimoCache can help minimize by softening the storage use.

[versed knoll]

I run it daily

Ever since I tried it

I'm tight on money so I'm using the free trial

Does it forgive me if I uninstall it and install it again once the trial expires? It genuinely is worth the money but I can't spare anything right now

[cedar mango]

It will not. Your PC generates an internal key

Which is sent to their servers. This key will check the time you have.

It doesn't matter if you uninstall it, when you activate it, your key is having the time counted on their servers.

[versed knoll]

Oh well

[cedar mango]

My suggestion: buy it.
They do not charge for updates and once you buy it, it's yours forever. It's one of those programs that cost much less than what it actually gives you.

[onyx warren]

Until you change motherboards at least

Which I'm planning to do this year

[cedar mango]

I had issues with activation when I change my PC (3 times now) and sending a support ticket they invalidated my previous license and resent it my way.

[mental peak]

@cedar mango https://amzn.eu/d/2w2M2Vq
I got this ssd to setup primocache with

[cedar mango]

So no, that is no problem, they are super kind and nice.

[onyx warren]

Ok,thats good then

[cedar mango]

Yes, they are not the greedy bastards kind.

You simply explain that you sold your previous motherboard and you changed it to something new and they will reset your license.

[cedar mango]

You should be good, provided the storage you want to speed up is slower than 4.5Gb/s

Yes, assign the entire storage as L2 and enjoy performance for cheap!!

I am telling you, these guys have a much much better caching algorithm than the Windows kernel itself has.

They are the "Loseless Scaling" of Storage 😂

[versed knoll]

One friend I recommended it to did say that

[cedar mango]

He is absolutely right!

In this age of "badly optimized software", there are still ABSOLUTELY GOOD pieces of software to be had.

[elder smelt]

🔥

[cedar mango]

I'm almost a system engineer. Been working with hardware all my life. I've never seen a program handle memory as good as Primo Cache and Primo Ramdrive

You know what I do?. I also have 8GB for Primo Ramdrive and send all the browser temp storage to that.
Not only I can browse the internet much faster, I can simply restart the PC and have my history cleared without effort as the Ramdrive is set to forget contents upon restart.

They are both modular and built to work alongside, so you should have no problems using both at the same time.

You can set the Ramdrive for all the stupid programs such as Spotify that loves to write tons of TEMP files... so they are "off" your SSD. This also improves system responsiveness.

[onyx warren]

I don't have that much ram 💀

[elder smelt]

my poor 16gb

[onyx warren]

What does the Cache hit rate mean btw?

[elder smelt]

its when the cache that your ram or l2 cache gathered up actually does something

[onyx warren]

Damn I'm at 84% rn

[elder smelt]

yup sounds great

I used to do 98% in some games

[onyx warren]

Does this matter? The inactive part

[elder smelt]

hmm

not sure

if the cache is still working, I wouldn't worry about it

[onyx warren]

It cleared my ram, so I don't think it is lmao

[elder smelt]

rip 😭

[onyx warren]

I think it's because my ram usage is too high

I deleted the task, created a new one and it gives me an error that I don't have enough resources

Although I'd still have 6GB overhead

[elder smelt]

wait what settings you got?

don't make block size too small

[onyx warren]

I am using 16gb atm and it didn't let me create a 12gb task, but 8gb is fine

[elder smelt]

8gb should be fine

what block size you using though?

[onyx warren]

Standard 32

[elder smelt]

hmm

[onyx warren]

Yeah, I was just trynna upgrade it a little since I usually have enough free ram

[elder smelt]

I usually run 64 and 128

32 and below has large overhead hit

[onyx warren]

I have no idea how block sizes impact the performance so I just left it at default

[mental peak]

Yeah they all are, does that mean that I should allocate it 4.5 GB or RAM? Or more?

[elder smelt]

its just how well it handles allocation

each block is 32kb which is more accurate than a 64kb block

you don't really notice much in performance so a higher value isn't bad

with 32kb your getting like a near 2gb ram overhead

on 64kb its half that

and 128kb is half of that again

[elder smelt]

it has no ties with the speed

allocate how much you want

its only the cache size

[mental peak]

Ah okay

[mental peak]

Did you partition your E drive?

[cedar mango]

Block size does not impact performance much when in L2, but it does for RAM. The more you use, the faster (64-128k being ideal) but it will consume more RAM if it's bigger.

No, D is a Samsung 960 Pro (SSD) and E is an SN850X 4TB NVMe

[mental peak]

Is there a way to know what block size corresponds to how much RAM needed?

[cedar mango]

Yes. Before pressing the button on create task, it will tell you how much will "waste" depending on the block size you use.

[mental peak]

Ok cool

[cedar mango]

Look at the "Memory Overhead", that's basically how much you're going to waste depending on that blocksize.

look at the lower left corner.

[cedar mango]

That one

[mental peak]

I'll get my ssd on Wednesday and I'll get the free trial then

[cedar mango]

Overhead means = memory wasted

[mental peak]

OK thank you

[onyx warren]

There's no real minimum needed.
You could just give it 1GB RAM if you wanted to

[cedar mango]

You can defer write to an L2-SSD, you cannot defer write to RAM unless you have an UPS.

Exactly. Problem doesn't care what you allocate but obviously it will be faster and more effective the more you allocate.

[elder smelt]

I use defer write with ram 😅

its only a bit though

300MB

[onyx warren]

Would it be beneficial to use some on the Boot drive?

[cedar mango]

Just to have an idea, with my 32GB allocation I can update a game on Steam and it will instantly validate upon downloading, like instantly, then I can see after 50 seconds a burst write of 6Gb/s on the disk.

[cedar mango]

Yes it will.

It will reduce the latency of the entire kernel.

[onyx warren]

I just allocated it all to my game drive

[cedar mango]

And if you're on 11, it's not "just a tiny more"

[onyx warren]

When I upgrade platform I'm probably just gonna get 64gb ram so I have 32 or more to spare for primocache

[elder smelt]

if I had more ram I'd definitely use some on my boot drive

[cedar mango]

On my system, just using 1GB for boot drive improved performance quite a bit

Yes, this one program is the sole reason why I've got 128 🙂

[onyx warren]

Ok good to know

I can give it 1-2GB for sure

[elder smelt]

128gb damn

[cedar mango]

Also, do not assign L2 to boot drive, just RAM, only read cache, not write.

[elder smelt]

pretty sure am5 suffers in speed if you use 4 sticks 😔

[cedar mango]

C drive should have the safest caching possible to avoid corruption.

[onyx warren]

wut

[onyx warren]

How do I do read only?

[elder smelt]

yup, not sure how bad it is but it exists

[cedar mango]

Yes mine also suffers but you know what. Comparing 4-dimm slower overall performance decrease with 100% storage performance increase, I can assure you, you end up winning.

[onyx warren]

Man I was gonna go 4x16

[elder smelt]

very bad idea

[cedar mango]

This is basic engineering, Storage is the slowest part of the entire system.

[elder smelt]

just get 2x32

[cedar mango]

get 4 x 32 🙂

[elder smelt]

also that

[cedar mango]

Once you start using big caches you will never go back

You won't care about the 4-dimm slower access time anymore

[elder smelt]

tbf it matters for cpu bottleneck situations

but it depends on if you care about it or not

[cedar mango]

The level of "snappiness" you can achieve by separating tasks (C drive to read only cache) and game drive for read/write is unheard of.

[elder smelt]

you could have a x3d cpu and it won't matter much

[onyx warren]

@cedar mango

[elder smelt]

just don't enable defer write?

[onyx warren]

Oh ok

[cedar mango]

Exactly

C drive should never have "defer write"

[onyx warren]

Is defer write safe on the game drive without a UPS?

[cedar mango]

Yes if cache = SSD L2

No if cache = RAM

[elder smelt]

I use 300MB without ups but it isn't recommended

[onyx warren]

Kk

[cedar mango]

Get an UPS, get 128GB RAM and you'll cry at the speed 🙂

Best upgrade ever.

[onyx warren]

Get money first

[cedar mango]

hahha yes of course

[elder smelt]

am5 = $$$$$

[onyx warren]

Alrighty then, 8 and 2GB

[elder smelt]

I'm gonna aim for 64gb of ram

[cedar mango]

One invalid shutdown can completely corrupt the game you're playing.

[elder smelt]

yup lol

[cedar mango]

What do you mean with 8 and 2?

[elder smelt]

playing with fire but its always worked fine

[onyx warren]

GB Ram allocated

[cedar mango]

Also, if you're doing L2, use RAM as well, don't use L2 alone

[onyx warren]

I'm only using L1

[rain hull]

"mama who turned off the power"

[cedar mango]

hahahah

[onyx warren]

Both my drives are M.2 Nvme so no need for L2

[cedar mango]

Or best way ever to screw the kid... wait till he starts playing the favorite game and BAM... there it goes the power haha

[elder smelt]

just make sure to never use defer write on boot drive without a ups 💀

[cedar mango]

For NVMe never use L2, just RAM

[onyx warren]

At least the 9800X3D is slowly reaching MSRP lmao

[onyx warren]

Yes, that's what I'm doing

8 and 2GB respectively

[cedar mango]

When you have more RAM, test 16GB cache onwards... and watch your disk become god.

I'm telling you... it's out of this world performance.

[onyx warren]

I tried 12 an hour ago and it gave me a 'not enough resources' error

[cedar mango]

Watching Steam sucking all 32 cores while validating a game and seeing the RAM cache getting filled and watching the disk doing nothing is short of extacy.

[onyx warren]

But I'm deffo going for 64GB on AM5 to give them both 16GB each

[elder smelt]

even with my 2 striped ssds, I get huge decrease in stutters and insane loading speeds

[cedar mango]

Also, there is another thing that this program does to your SSD. It severely reduces the fragmentation when defer writes are enabled.
This is because the multiple read/writes are all packed into the RAM, then the program writes a single burst of 6-7GB/s on the disk and this is done "sequentially" instead of randomized as it could be done originally. This reduces fragmentation and improves performance of the storage system.

The defer-writes severely changes how the storage subsystem behaves, so the more RAM you have, the more performance you get from it. It's like literally maximizing read/write performance by using RAM as buffer.

[cedar mango]

This is absolutely correct. All the messy read/writes are re-organized in RAM, this is why it reduces stuttering.

[onyx warren]

Yup, also noticed it in games that were BAD with loading stutters every few seconds

Smooth as butter now

[cedar mango]

Yes, absolutely correct. This piece of software is among the best you could ever have in your windows, along with Loseless Scaling. The other beautiful piece of software that must be there installed in your system is Process Lasso.
You can do wonders with that software as well.

I can literally send lower important background apps to E-cores and take them out of my P-cores, also change the default hetero-policy to redirect most high performance applications to the P-cores in my 13900K.
For sure it does a much better job than the lousy "thread director" in the W11 Kernel.

[onyx warren]

Tbf AMD doesn't really have P and E cores

[cedar mango]

Yes, AMD handle this much much better.

It's still useful.

For example, the stupid Epic Games Launcher forces the Overlay Launcher every time it detects a new game. Sometimes even outside the Epic Games Launcher (steam games).
There is no way to block the App without breaking the Launcher... but, here comes Proces Lasso you simply wait till the Overlay turns on, and you "disallow" the process.. bingo. No more worries and no breaking.

[onyx warren]

Lmao

Get outsmarted

[cedar mango]

It's amazing how good you can handle every process in the system with this program. I bought the Pro because in my system, it simply replaced the Task Manager for good.

I have it mapped in "Win+C" with a free tool called "HotkeyP" and I can invoke it whenever I want. Have total control of the system 🙂

[ivory moon]

ddr4 is dirt cheap now... disk drives (all.. hdd & ssd) should adopt the concept of using volatile storage for caching if needed. 1gb-2gb of ddr4 speed right next to disk drive would be insane, no sw required.

but for gaming, it's snake oil. You are limited by so many translation layers, API's, drivers and so on, that once you get your main drive to be NVMe, your gaming drive could be the crappiest of sata ssd's and for 2017~ < games even HDD and it would not touch your 0.01 percentiles a bit. There are exceptions, but frame time health is not affected by disk specs much. At least for not of the absolute newest of games that rely on texture streaming compression/decompression.

Want to get rid of stutters ? win11 + mpo + gsync / vrr + specialk is the way.

Also limiting base framerate to 60 and using lsfg is one of ways of getting just insane framepacing with rock solid 0.01 perceltile lows.

That being said... loose files modding could cause stutters depending on the implementation in engine. Heavily modded Skyrim and Fallout 3/4 should see some direct performance benefit by using ramdisk

[versed knoll]

Windows 11 hates Lossless Scaling

[ivory moon]

I agree. Too many factors to create a good experience. Its great if you know how the program works on technical level and what you need to have and do to actually use the damn thing on win 11 😄

For many confirugrations, win 11 will not be pleasant experience. It's expensive to have panel with MPO support. At least 900$, and it's mostly TV only.

[plucky crow]

Your argument is very interesting. Will it improve performance on my pc?
My pc is i7-6700k and gtx1070+rx6400+dr4 16g.

In this situation, would connect the extra 120g ssd and apply it as an L2 cache increase the fps in the game?

[onyx warren]

Only if your game is on a HDD if you want to use L2 cache

It also would just decrease loading times and stutters, not actually give more performance

[plucky crow]

Wouldn't it improve 0.1% fps, 1% fps in the game?

[plucky crow]

Does less lag in the game mean an improvement of 0.1 fps or 1% fps?

[elder smelt]

well yea

less stutters improve that

[plucky crow]

Very interesting. I just happen to have two spare ssd. Should I apply the raid option and designate it as an l2 cache?

[elder smelt]

its up to you

I would definitely do it

thats pretty much my setup

but instead of raid I just striped them in the windows partition manager

[plucky crow]

You mean Windows Disk Manager made two ssd into one?

I'm going to try it today. I'm wondering if there will be any changes in dual lsfg.

[elder smelt]

yes

[clear sundial]

Very interesting conversation about primo cache 🤔 I currently have 64GB of RAM and I am very interesting in trying out L1 read only cache, do you guys recommend a sweet spot number to test? I'm running a NVME 4.0 boot drive and another NVME 4.0 game drive.

[elder smelt]

64gb is a great amount

how much are you willing to use for cache?

if I had that amount, I'd atleast use 20gb

[elder smelt]

I'd change that block size

64kb or 128kb

[onyx warren]

How much do you have (free)

[elder smelt]

good

[plucky crow]

I don't know.

[onyx warren]

[onyx warren]

So you have 16gb ram

[plucky crow]

Is my PC set up now?

[elder smelt]

yea

try playing something

let it cache it

then you will see improvements

[plucky crow]

ok

[elder smelt]

if the cache does something it will show

as cache hit rate

[onyx warren]

Did you give the cache to a hard drive?

[plucky crow]

yes my c:(nvme ssd) and d:(sata ssd)

[onyx warren]

So not hard drives

Then what you're doing doesn't really make sense

You're using an SSD as Cache for other SSDs.
Meaning you won't really get any speed improvements

[elder smelt]

yea its kinda very little gain unless you use ram

still

[onyx warren]

It's either RAM for SSD or SSD for HDD

[elder smelt]

its better in some ways imo

[onyx warren]

That makes most sense

[elder smelt]

but ram is so much better for a system like that

[onyx warren]

But with 16gb ram not much to work with tbh

[elder smelt]

try crystaldisk benchmark

see if it has any real improvements

[plucky crow]

I'll test it in this situation.

And I'll install the 32gb RAM in the warehouse and try again.

[plucky crow]

Something's weird lol

Stuttering is the same but I think base fps has changed very stable. And I had a little pause when I needed to load during the game and this issue is gone too.

[elder smelt]

well I didn't expect it to work that well considering its already a sata and nvme drive

but if it works better then great

[plucky crow]

Is this how you do it?

[elder smelt]

yes

let it finish

and then do a run without cache

[elder smelt]

compare them

[elder smelt]

this was my hdd with primocache

without

[plucky crow]

wow

[elder smelt]

your numbers seem close to my cache speeds

[plucky crow]

without

[elder smelt]

yea it doesn't seem to do anything for your case

if you want

remove the l2 cache and instead make a 2gb ram cache instead

see the speeds then

you will see how fast it can go

l2 cache doesn't seem to cut it for you

[plucky crow]

Got an extra ram now. I'll install it on my pc and make it into ddr4 36g.

[elder smelt]

alright

[plucky crow]

I will shut down the power of my computer lol

[elder smelt]

📈 🔜

[plucky crow]

I installed the ram. What should I do now??

[elder smelt]

remove l2 cache

add l1 cache

the ram cache

[onyx warren]

L3 cache

https://tenor.com/view/shannon-sharpe-suit-meme-man-wearing-suit-meme-suit-slideshow-sparkles-and-champagne-gif-26378137

[plucky crow]

block size 128

[elder smelt]

try 32 or 64

[onyx warren]

64 sweet spot I think

[plucky crow]

oh no lol

[onyx warren]

Also give a little to your boot drive. Like 2-4GB

To make Windows more responsive

[onyx warren]

Yea

[plucky crow]

ok

[onyx warren]

ok

[plucky crow]

I think the game's loading is more than twice as fast.

[onyx warren]

Yep definitely possible

RAM is way faster than SSDs

[plucky crow]

wow

[onyx warren]

[plucky crow]

Oh, now that I see it, cpu overclocking isn't applied. I need to re-apply it and come back. Geez..

[plucky crow]

It's so funny. The fps have increased.

Stuttering isn't gone, but the base frame has increased. And it's stable.

I wanted to solve the stutter, but the base frame increased.

[onyx warren]

I haven't looked at the framerate tbh, but stutter hell now turned to Smooth as butter in some games for me

[clear roost]

oopsie

[onyx warren]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-fine-fire-house-burning-okay-gif-5263684

[clear roost]

^ monitor with RX 6400 connected, fixes itself after I turn off and on the monitor

[elder smelt]

avg dual gpu experience

[clear roost]

card is on warranty til September anyway

[onyx warren]

This happened after my Windows reinstall, got a BSoD and hasn't happened since lmao

[clear roost]

for me it doesn't even impact performance let alone stability

[onyx warren]

Yeah, mine also just started artifacting this way and after a few minutes I got a really corrupt looking blue screen 💀

Since then nothing has happened

[plucky crow]

I'm using Radeon for monitor output. What additional settings do I need in the adrenaline app?

[onyx warren]

Just default

Only thing I changed was turning the Overlay off in the settings

[plucky crow]

How do I set up G-Sync in lsfg settings?

[onyx warren]

In LS? Just turn on the toggle

[mental peak]

hows this?

making sure i do things right, i followed a video on youtube and he said to do those settings for faster read and write

[onyx warren]

Why 512 block size?

And I wouldn't activate defer write when using L1 cache, dangerous thing

[mental peak]

okay, i put it to 256 and no defer write. About the l2 cache options, can i put read/write in the middle? so it can do both? not just reading or writing

[onyx warren]

Defer write is the write option

But it can be dangerous when you have a power outage

[mental peak]

so even if i put the l2 cache to write only, its the same thing as defer write even tho its not enabled

[onyx warren]

Idk much about L2 cache tbh, I only use L1.
But write with defer write disabled should be fine

[mental peak]

i'll do 50/50 for reading and writing since i'm pretty sure i'll do both often

should i use keep l1 cache on fast shutdown? it seems useful

[onyx warren]

Uhh, I don't even know where that is lmao

[mental peak]

so i set it up and transferred a file from my hdd to the desktop and it didnt speed anything up, it was at 120mb/s. then I tried the same thing again after and tha time it took 2 seconds lmao.

but now i did the same thing from my desktop to my hdd and it doesn't work, it stays at 120mb/s even if i just copied it? did I miss something somewhere ?

[versed knoll]

lmao

[mental peak]

im assuming ill have to precompile caches again for all games ?

[wary wraith]

Is this primocache program supposed to help lossless?

[onyx warren]

Not specifically, just general load times and stutters

[versed knoll]

No

[clear roost]

yep

at least it did it in stalker2 and cod for me

or it wasn't cod

def in s2

[mental peak]

I should delete all the games' caches manually or is it just gonna do it automatically?

[vivid zealot]

Its a cache do it should populate itself as you use your machine.

First time you use a file/data it will be normal speed and copied to cache. Then next time it will read from cache and be much faster.

[onyx warren]

Its sucking every last drop out of my 10GB 💀

[elder smelt]

What happened when I was asleep 😭

[onyx warren]

World war 3

[elder smelt]

Please do not do this

😭

[mental peak]

Why

I have RAM to spare anyway

Or should i do read only?

[elder smelt]

that much write is too much

You only really need a small amount

[mental peak]

So 80% for reading and 20% for writing instead of 50/50. Should I do that for l1 and also l2 cache?

this for l1 cache

and this for l2 cache

[onyx warren]

Why not just leave it at default with the tick off?

[mental peak]

never saw the tick XD

i thought i had to choose

[onyx warren]

It's off by default

Also I've been playing a game for 3 hrs and had 450GB read and 10GB write

[mental peak]

so that way its just automatic

[onyx warren]

Yes

[elder smelt]

do you really need write cache?

[mental peak]

I transfer lots of files between lots of folders in different drives. and use them in DAWs fetching from different drives, I thought it'd help but I guess it can just be on automatic?

[elder smelt]

hmm

I'm not sure how safe it is without a ups

but if you are gonna do that, read cache should be 80% write 20%

[mental peak]

im not using defer write option since it seems dangerous without a ups

[elder smelt]

then why are you splitting them?

[mental peak]

yes, should i do that for l1 and the l2 cache then?

[elder smelt]

l1 should be like that

l2 should be even less

but you aren't using defer write

no point

[mental peak]

so just default then

[elder smelt]

yep

[onyx warren]

Btw prefetch yes or no?

[elder smelt]

iirc it gets the read cache back after reboot

so yes

I hope thats what it is

[mental peak]

dumb question but when i create a cache task, i don't need to select the drive i use for the caching? would it be caching itself?

[elder smelt]

def don't do that

just select drives you want cached

[mental peak]

yeah that makes sense

[onyx warren]

The volume isn't even there.
You'd only select the 16mb local disk

[devout charm]

This forums make no sense anymore 😂