Anti-Aliasing options.

[atomic plover]

I don't know about TSMAA2 is it any good with older games?

[rustic lynx]

tbf I consider it being more of a proof-of-concept rather than something that's "gold" and "shipping-ready"

It reuses the frame persistence code from HQAA and adds some shader-level jitter, from which it tries to rebuild a better looking image

imo it works okay (8-12ms on DX11), but performance‐wise I'd just get Marty's hyper-optimized SMAA (3-4ms) or LoLunacy's CMAA2 port (4-5ms)

It also depends on what game is old in your book lol

Sometimes you can just use Grebord's hyper-optimized FXAA (FAAA) and call it a day, coz it smooths jaggies like a champ, doesn't blur detail at all (it scans for certain edges like CMAA does) and costs virtually nothing (0.8ms for default settings)

although I don't know how does it feel like on different resolutions, hence "that would mean doing some testing"

e.g. CMAA2 looks awful on 720p, but great on 1080p and up - that's due to combing artifacts appearing on slightly angled lines, which happens by design

Not to mention other post-process shaders like DLAA (the LucasArts one, not the Nvidia one)

The AstrayFX version seems to be very resource heavy while its default settings blur the image to the point that it looks like badly implemented TAA

But I dunno how it is above 720p

Hence the testing thing

Maybe I'd do some in the nearby future 🤔

[rustic lynx]

Oh, yeah, one more think

Personally I'd judge AAs by their handling of noisy and/or low-res images, rather than "old games" in general

FYI Crysis 2 used TSMAA2x, Halo Reach used TAA, while Killzone 3 used MLAA

All these games were released in the very similar timeframe

[limpid bane]

I think Grebord's LXAA is better than FAAA

[chrome comet]

Martys Immerse SMAA is probably best antialiasing option in reshade since it is almost same as fxaa performance wise and does not lose any quality from default smaa. Cmaa 2 is in reshade is completely useless after seeing that smaa

[limpid bane]

I use immerse smaa->LXAA->ASAA(jittering)

When I have high fps I use vort taa

[chrome comet]

vort taa is only good when you move and you need to enable smaa with it to get the best quality. I kind of find that weird. I just rather use smaa

[limpid bane]

yeah I use the same shaders smaa->lxaa->taa->asaa

[chrome comet]

i wish there was a taa shader not only gets enabled when you move but enabled all the time. That would be awesome

I dont use much reshade now. I actually started not caring about aliasing . Sometimes reshade can decrease fps just by injecting it. That is why i dont use it

[limpid bane]

yeah it does... I remember good old sweetfx was much lighter

[chrome comet]

I use ls for sharpness shader at least i have that option now

[limpid bane]

@chrome comet you can try disabling all reshade addons (depth buffer) etc and use simple shaders btw. The performance might improve

I've tried installing reshade without any shaders on LS and it uses 20% of my iGpu without any shaders. I will try without any addons and I'll tell you the difference

[chrome comet]

I dont need it actually. I mostly have used it for sharpening anyway. I overcame it with ls now 😄

[rustic lynx]

https://github.com/papadanku/CShade

Oh, look!

New optimized LucasArts DLAA fork

And it's BSD-3

🤔

(It's cAntiAliasing)

[limpid bane]

@rustic lynx looks cool

[brazen stone]

I remember editing the text files and having to tab in and out of the game and TRY to notice what it changed lol.

[rustic lynx]

I've tried it out on Unigine Heaven

Performance-wise it's on-par with CMAA2 and Marty's SMAA, although it works via blurring the entire image rather than scanning it for shapes and stuff

It might be divisive to some, but personally this might be my new anti-aliasing shader of choice - it allows to achieve TAA-like blurring, which solves foliage shimmering and other stability-related issues I've seen in other shaders

In other words - it's perfect for upscaling with LS1, which is very sensitive to temporal stability of the processed image

Just FYI that it doesn't reconstruct things, so everyone who loathes TAA or anything similar should stay away and not touch it at all

I wonder how it is performance-wise on DX9 tho

I've been testing DX11 only

(I'll send some screens tommorow)

[karmic flume]

I understand one thing. Using reshade is forbidden for many games (looking at you Hunt Showdown) and you can't just say use reshade and bear with it

[rustic lynx]

Yeah, that would be one of the reasons why AA in LS would make sense

I don't want to be banned coz I wanted to have a different type of AA lol

[clear whale]

This is misinformation

The anticheat merely prevents reshade from being used as the game uses EAC

The ban hysteria is ridiculous

[rustic lynx]

And how do I use other AA solutions? By injecting ReShade

I think I didn't explain my point well enough lol

[rustic lynx]

https://imgsli.com/MjkwNDcz

I've finished doing my half-arsed testing

Just a quick recap:

My PC is Lenovo ThinkPad E14 G1 with Intel i5-10210U, Intel UHD 620

Screenshots were taken in Unigine Heaven 4.0 running in DX11 and with LAA (Large Address Aware) and ReShade 6.2 injected

Used AA solutions are:

1. CeeJay's FXAA
2. Grebord's FAAA (superb edge-based FXAA fork)
3. CeeJay's SMAA
4. LordBean's Fast SMAA (SMAA with no depth buffer pass)
5. LordBean's Temporal SMAA v2 (Fast SMAA with frame compositing)
6. LordOfLunacy's CMAA2
7. PapaDanku's DLAA (no, not the Nvidia one - the "Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II" one)
   Every shader is running under its default setting in Performance Mode, and shared under a free licence (meaning that they could be integrated within Lossless Scaling)

My LS settings: auto-scaling, LS1P S1, double buffered WGC

tl;dr

Baseline image (1080p, CMAA2) - 16 fps
810p, FXAA - 26 fps
810p, FAAA - 27 fps
810p, SMAA - 25 fps
810p, FSMAA - 27 fps
810p, TSMAA2 - 23 fps
810p, CMAA2 - 26 fps
810p, DLAA - 29 fps

Feel free to compare the screenshots I've left in the .zip file

I didn't make a test pattern comparison yet, as I wanted to see ReShade AA and LS1 scaling do their thing on real-time 3D graphics

(alas have them put some strain onto my piss-poor iGPU)

oh, and by the way - the benchmark was running on Medium settings with Moderate tesselation

@acoustic talon sorry for the ping, but I did this with your lack of final decision in mind

For your consideration - Lossless Scaling with pre-scaling compute-enabled anti-aliasing (DLAA, FSMAA, CMAA2)

@cold jackal I'll also leave a ping for our fellow admin to have him check out the attachment if he thought it wasn't legit or something

I did no testing with Marty's SMAA as it's copyrighted and available for personal use only

It also uses a depth buffer pass

[cold jackal]

Is it a requirement for it?

I'm pretty sure it has a non depth based method to

[rustic lynx]

No, but "Predicated Thresholding" and "Depth Edge Threshold" options are dependent on it

Plus it's still being executed despite ReShade's depth buffer addon being disabled

(kinda like CeeJay's vanilla SMAA)

[cold jackal]

Ah I see

[rustic lynx]

Yeah, that's how luma-based and color-based SMAA options work

Marty's SMAA also has an average color-based option, which is inspired by CMAA2's edge scanning pass

It scans the image for colors then calculates the weight of each detected tone

This allows to save more subpixel detail and make the thing run even faster

Predicated Thresholding is just disabling SMAA based on depth and contrast of the select parts of the image

Killzone 2 and 3 was using it

[cold jackal]

Something I've always wondered about is something like MLFXAA where edge detection is done by a small ai model instead of being algorithmic

Would be more on brand for ls as well

[rustic lynx]

tbf I don't think neural-network-based anti-aliasing might be even remotely possible in ReShade

I mean, look at the TAA options

[cold jackal]

Oh I mean in ls

[rustic lynx]

They're all hacky and such

[rustic lynx]

If you have the guts to code it and make it work, sure

It would be really cool to see something like that in action

[cold jackal]

Eh just throwing ideas out there

I've never really seen an idea like that pop up before

[rustic lynx]

Probably because the frametime cost of such thing would be killer

There's a reason why 90% of real-time graphics developers jumped onto the FXAA hype wagon the very moment it appeared out of nowhere

It was like MLAA, but it also was dirt-cheap to use on consoles and entirely contained within 2 post-process passes

[cold jackal]

I mean what is the penalty of LS1/performance I feel like it could be done in around the same performance window

[rustic lynx]

I dunno how LS1 works shader-wise, but it's main strength is low computing costs

If LS1 Performance runs faster than Bicubic scaling with CAS, then you're doing something exceptional

But

LS1P is like that mainly on modern hardware

[cold jackal]

Why would it be it doesn't use any sort of special hardware acceleration?

[rustic lynx]

I've seen people saying that their Intel HD 4000s were running Bicubic CAS better

[rustic lynx]

By using compute units instead of being yet another boring pixel shader?

[cold jackal]

It might just margin of error on higher end systems

[rustic lynx]

That's why ReShade shaders work better under DX11 and Vulkan

[cold jackal]

That to

Probably a combination of things

[rustic lynx]

These APIs allow for using compute units, thus reducing the frametime cost multiple times

[cold jackal]

I'm not completely sure if ls uses that or not

I would have to ask ths

[rustic lynx]

I mean, the framerates might be indistinguishable from their compute-enabled versions, but only on modern hardware

Yet still, they're slower in one way or another

That's why Marty says his SMAA is only 15% faster in DX9 mode, while its compute cost in DX11 mode is nearly identical to FXAA

Which is, like

A 80% uplift?

[cold jackal]

Anyways back to the original topic if ths can recreate the same black magic an ai edge detector could have a low enough performance penalty

[rustic lynx]

I wonder how'd he tackle the blur issue

Case point - CMAA2

[cold jackal]

I mean if it's accurate enough textures shouldn't get blured at all

[rustic lynx]

I LOVE CMAA2, but only when using it at higher resolutions

720p pushes CMAA2 to its structural edge, making its combing artifacts awfully noticeable in LS1

Sure, FSR can smooth them out

But I like LS1 more due to its reduced footprint

CMAA2 was designed around being as non-blurring as possible, which is the reason why its edge-smoothing is, well, conservative

Personally, I'd see that theoretical MLFXAA of yours achieve the same goals of CMAA2 by applying shape-driven anti-aliasing into the pre-scaled image, but without the need to use an intentionally gimped smoothing algorithm.

That's where neutral networks come in

I ain't no hlsl programmer, but I'd start by taking LordOfLunacy's CMAA2 fork and applying that "black magic" ths rocks with

(which is just constant tweaking of existing compute-based shaders with a neural network specifically trained for such use case)

That's the only way I could explain the jump in quality-per-ms between LSFG versions

Like, LSFG 1.1 its borderline unusable when trying the 30fps -> 60 fps case scenario

Stuff's blurry, shaky, and generally temporally unstable

LSFG 2.3 Performance - despite costing 5% GPU usage more - allows me to generate extra frames that don't look like crap

I tried it on Borderlands 1, and I'm legit shocked to see how far that tech did go

LSAA might be something like it too

If LSFG was (and still is) a AFMF1 tweaked to oblivion and beyond, then LSAA could be a CMAA2 tweaked so much it does the same thing faster and without the cutbacks

It would be a godsend when playing games with no TAA/TSR

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/technical/conservative-morphological-anti-aliasing-20.html

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/technical/conservative-morphological-anti-aliasing-cmaa-update.html

Anyway, I'll leave these great papers here

It goes knee-deep into inner workings of both CMAA and CMAA2

It should be useful when brainstorming ideas for LSAA and trying to make them competitive to other AA solutions

[amber zephyr]

Praying that an anti aliasing option gets added 🙏

[cold jackal]

Lsfg is not based on afmf in Any way

[rustic lynx]

Wasn't AFMF1 FOSS by any means?

Even if LSFG was 100% original code, ths could check out how AFMF1 does its thing and then work on something that would try to do the same thing, but without the compromises of that said thing

[cold jackal]

I don't think so

[rustic lynx]

Micro-optimization is a thing

[cold jackal]

But I know lsfg is original

[rustic lynx]

LordOfLunacy did his CMAA2 port while checking out Marty's SMAA

[cold jackal]

I'm pretty sure afmf and lsfg work in entirely different ways

[rustic lynx]

AFMF2? Sure. It's a closed-source neural-network-driven solution now

Same thing with LSFG 2.3

TBF I could clarify I'm talking about AFMF1 and LSFG 1.1 lol

[cold jackal]

They claim it uses ai but I really doubt there claim

It just seems like tweaked afmf 1.0

[rustic lynx]

Tweaked... by analyzing how a dedicated neural network trained to do the same thing works, perhaps

It could be just a blurb though

AI is such a buzzword these days 🥴

[cold jackal]

Oh also psst you can see #💫・special-chat now

[cold jackal]

They definitely just used it as a buzzword

[cold jackal]

Going back to this I think making an in-house as method would be the way to go

Very unlikely but a collaboration with Marty would be interesting

[rustic lynx]

Top 10 Anime Crossovers

#1:

[cold jackal]

Ths seems mostly interested in incromental improvements to lsfg at the moment though

[cold jackal]

We already kinda know em so wouldn't be impossible

Doubt it will or has any reason to happen though

[rustic lynx]

Yeah, coz looking at the ReShade server it seems that Marty's busy with incremental updates to RTGI

And other shaders making up the iMMERSE Pro suite

[cold jackal]

He's doing a bunch of stuff

Pretty impressive to be honest

[rustic lynx]

Yeah

Seeing MXAO work under the software limits of ReShade and DX9 is already impressive, not to mention stuff like ReLight or RTGI

He's the guy

The Shader guy

[cold jackal]

Can't forget the colour suite

[chrome comet]

Does ths plan to add a antialiasing solution to ls?

[rustic lynx]

Back in February he said that he wants Lossless Scaling to keep bloat-free, as "ReShade already does that"

Then this thread blew up

Now it's TBD

I mean, it's a running joke at this point

If THS doesn't want to add AA into LS, then he won't do that

If he wants to add AA into LS, he would implement something that's available for free commercial use or he would develop something entirely new in-house to keep things fresh and keep LS worth its money

[fiery wraith]

I'll gladly take a bloated LS

Where's the 10GB models

[rustic lynx]

Not to mention things like LS running on DX11, which allows minimizing the performance impact via compute units

e.g. that's why shaders on ReShade work worse on DX9

there's no compute unit support on that API, meaning that everything is a pixel shader or pseudo-vertex one

Same with OpenGL

[rustic lynx]

This sounds like a nightmare lmao

Feature creep is the reason why Windows 11 feels so half-baked and Opera GX needs its own splash screen to cover up long boot times

Keep things simple, but allow user to granularly personalize his experience

[rustic lynx]

Just a FYI that CShade got updated and guess I'll have to do some testing again

It's a single pass FXAA fork now

RIP LucasArts DLAA

[wooden bison]

I think llfg is made with neat algo

[limpid bane]

@faint shuttle moving it here 😉

https://github.com/TreyM/SHADERDECK/blob/main/shaders/SHADERDECK/FSR1_2X.fx

It's exactly what I was looking for. I used to use Dldsr + Ls1 to achieve 1440p quality. But now I'm using display port to usc c and I can't use Dldsr. Using this we can have higher quality(0 sharpness) and LFSG will generate 1080p. I have to test it

[limpid bane]

not that impressed but it's something. Do you use it after or before AA?

[faint shuttle]

told you, I used it for sharpening (so ran it after AA)

[limpid bane]

it kinda improves the image quality but since fsr1.0 isn't doing a good job on aliased textures, it doesn't really improve AA that much.

maybe after smaa and vort_taa it's better

[rustic lynx]

Oh shoot

It's pinned now?

https://tenor.com/view/somethings-fucky-hmm-looking-around-i-smell-bs-trailer-park-boys-gif-17153625

[rustic lynx]

imo vort's TAA makes sense only on super-high resolutions

using it on anything sub-FHD is like smearing your image with Vaseline and then sharpening it with CAS

my go-to AA solutions for anything sub-FHD are optimized FXAA forks (CShade FXAA, FAAA) and Marty's SMAA (although I have to crank some settings down to make it less aggressive)

i use CMAA2 too, but only on DX11 enabled games

[cold jackal]

yes

[rustic lynx]

DX9 port has combing artifacts due to lack of H/A support

[limpid bane]

@rustic lynx this fsr shader doesn't increase performance by upscaling lower resolution. It actually improves the quality. I have a 1080p screen.

it creates x2 resolution and then downsamples it (x2 1080p -> 1080p)

I'm just thinking if it's better to do this before or after AA

[fiery wraith]

I used to just copy paste and stack like 5 fsr shaders at the same time for fun

[limpid bane]

triple super sampling 🤣

time to create LS1_x2.fx shader? 🤡

@cold jackal is LS1 code open source? Can I try creating something similar?

[rustic lynx]

Sooo it just supersamples a slightly smoothed, CAS-sharpened image?

Interesting

[rustic lynx]

THS wanted it to be implemented to Gamescope some time ago but it's still WIP

[limpid bane]

"poor man's supersampling" as he calls it

[cold jackal]

no it's not

[rustic lynx]

Until then, it's closed-source

[cold jackal]

even if it doesn't have to be open

[limpid bane]

yeah I think I found the post. https://github.com/ValveSoftware/gamescope/issues/788#issue-1581338103

[limpid bane]

you can also disable the sharpness

@cold jackal this shader is probably only possible using reshade right? I mean is it possible in LS somehow?

sorry about the tags maybe I should create a suggestion topic

[cold jackal]

You can install reshade on ls?

#1271345669545922631 message

[limpid bane]

it's possible yeah this is a solution

[candid siren]

Yes ! That would be awesome to have anti aliasing, even better if there was some sort of LSAA, like LS1 !!

[halcyon dove]

unpopular opinion, disable any AA and increase your Res by a little bit like 1.15 using Nvidia Control panel or any other tool, resulted image will be crystal clear and with nor jagged Edges, works very great with me in GTA 5, 1.25x with no AA was better than 1x with 8xMSAA,

[clear whale]

You lose all subpixel detail when using the nvcp

I am a fan of in game render scales though

When forced to use legacy antilasiasing techniques. CMAA 2 with some MSAA is nearly unbeatable for me

And if I have the performance and the game supports it, 200% scale with CMAA2

[candid belfry]

read a bit of what was here and was interested but i’m a little confused? what’s the point of using reshade on LS for anti aliasing? does it make upscaling look better in general or is it like a game specific thing

[rustic lynx]

Spatial upscalers require high-quality AA to deliver output image of reasonable quality

The thing is not all games have anti-aliasing or its implementation is poor

[candid belfry]

so using LS + reshade is like a "next best thing"?

[limpid bane]

@candid belfry This way reshade runs after lossless scaling. For example if you run x3 frame generation, it will use shaders on the new frames too. LS1 kinda needs AA after upscaling since it's doesn't do quite well on edges and grass. Also if you have a 2nd gpu, you can run reshade with that gpu instead of your main gpu. Also it can bypass anti cheat 😅.

the problem is that you can't have depth buffer and you can't open the reshade ui

[scarlet lagoon]

I add reshade to shaderglass and adjust the preset there and then put it on lossless scaling but it still doesnt have a depth buffer tho

[tropic siren]

How did you add reshade to shaderglass?

[tropic siren]

and how do you put shaderglass on lossless?

[scarlet lagoon]

I just used the reshade set up installer and put opengl? Or directx and then it works

[scarlet lagoon]

You cant do that

I mean theres no point anyway since you can just put reshade on lossless

And theyre similar on one thing shaderglass has a festure called glass for other apps used for like streaming or somethin and other shader effects like fsr or other stuff like crt or some reshade thing no frame gen tho

[tropic siren]

there is a point since that only works if you use a controller which is way too jank for me

[scarlet lagoon]

Oh ok

[granite epoch]

Hi sorry if the question was posted, but it's normal to have a great fps performance , bute the glass monitor of the planes not very defined?

[rustic lynx]

wdym "the glass monitor of the planes"

[nova radish]

they probably mean the games blurry if i had to guess

[rustic lynx]

FYI if you can't get DXVK running on your games (e.g. coz you have an Intel iGPU with its janky-ass drivers) try dgVoodoo2

It can translate DX9 software into DX11 and up, allowing you to use compute-enabled shaders in ReShade

e.g. CMAA2 or Marty's SMAA

Both will run at higher quality while being less resource intensive

You can use it to enable DX11 and up only shaders too

e.g. FastGI

[lavish talon]

This will be Lossless Scaling

In 2013

[candid belfry]

i never knew what the point of this thread was? would applying AA after using LS1 to upscale make it look better

or is it just to add AA to games that don’t support reshade

i asked at some point earlier but i got 2 responses that kinda leaned towards both?

[rustic lynx]

I think applying it before scaling would be beneficial, as:

1. Not all games have AA support
2. LS being a DX11 software allows the use of GPU computing, which allows for fancier AA types than the ones available in some games
3. LS1 and FSR1 require AA to work correctly, meaning that having it available directly via LS would unlock their full potential from the get-go

So yeah, I think AA in LS would be neat, coz ReShade works worse under DX9 games and doesn't support some stuff that's broadly used in DX11-enabled shaders

e.g. Marty's superb SMAA fork which uses compute-dependent optimizations allowing for performance that's on-par with FXAA

Many 7th gen games use FXAA, meaning free SMAA would be more than beneficial

[candid belfry]

ah, that makes sense, thank you for clarifying

[stone shard]

👍

[lavish talon]

What's this

[limpid bane]

How can I upgrade reshade guys? It doesn't seem to work when I update. Can someone send me his dxgi.dll file?

[unreal rock]

usualy renameing reshade.dll to dxgi.dll works

[limpid bane]

This works but how? what do you meaning reshade.dll I'm using the setup

[unreal rock]

it used to be 2 reshade dlls , idk if they changed it now

[limpid bane]

soo with Resolution scaling how will reshade work? Will the shaders be aplied on the downsampled images?

[stone shard]

reshade will be affected like any other image

[lavish talon]

Why is this pinned though

[rustic lynx]

I dunno

I would like to know too

[stone shard]

because people ask for anti-aliasing options like SMAA so much that it's a meme here, so it's fixed to demonstrate alternatives to use without needing LLS

[cold jackal]

Because of me rigging the suggestions

[karmic flume]

so what are the alternatives 😅

sorry >.<

[rustic lynx]

reshade

[scarlet lagoon]

The alternative for reshade in lossless is reshade

[stone shard]

There are numerous Anti-Aliasing Reshade Shaders. CAA. CMAA, CMAA2, SMAA, FXAA, SAA, SSAA, SRAA, TAA, NAA...

The best option being Marty's SMAA (Immerse Anti-Aliasing)

[nocturne sand]

I'd argue FAAA is better

[candid belfry]

i find myself not using marty’s smaa much at all, im too lazy to configure it and there are simpler shaders

[rustic lynx]

it really feels like a set-it-and-forget-it one in my book

low preset is slower than the ultra one by less than a single frame

you can't say the same about vanilla smaa

[clear whale]

Bait

[stone shard]

What would be FAAA? Fast Anamorphic Anti-Aliasing?

[limpid bane]

fast adaptive aa

[scarlet apex]

when fresh installed, there'll be a label on top for a tutorial... asking us to press the "Home" button, which does't work...

Edit: searched through the support-forum, got my answer thanks

[hasty forge]

How did you fix it ?

[scarlet apex]

apparently a gamepad is required

#1188850665322184704 Simplified Steps on Using ReShade With LS (+Gamepad Support)

I think gamepad emulators such as KeyToJoy would be a great way to access, though for my case it's too much of a hassle

[limpid bane]

I think I found the best combo to eliminate jittering. Cmaa2+ASAA+Vort motion. Let me send you my preset. Vort motion "catches" the jittering of ASAA and smooths the edges even more. Might loose details ofcourse

[limpid bane]

I tried other TAA shaders but I didn't really like them more. Like TSMAA2, DFTAA, DTAA. Vort motion TAA is still my go to

[stone shard]

The TAAs of DTAA and DFTAA are simple and do not even require motion vectors, something essential for the functioning of anything temporal.

I recommend DLAA_Lite

[limpid bane]

yep maybe if you want performance they are good

even though they mostly blur

[clear whale]

Holy blur

[stone shard]

https://imgsli.com/MzIxMDA0/0/4]

[limpid bane]

yeah but what about in motion?

DLAA is too blury for me

[stone shard]

What is the resolution of your monitor?

[limpid bane]

1080p

[stone shard]

You can set the Pixel Width to 1

should remove this blur

test using the most current version, 1.6

[limpid bane]

do you mean DLAA_lite?

I just tried it. Yeah no more bluring. It's good AA that can replace CMAA or SMAA but it doesn't eliminate aliasing on motion

I feel like DLAA blurs details. Not gonna lie it eliminates more aliasing and it's pretty performant.

[scarlet apex]

This is still ReShade patched on top of LS right???

[limpid bane]

yeah I use these shaders on top of LS. They don't require depth buffer. Clarity and Vort are pretty heavy

you can remove what ever you want from the preset

[scarlet apex]

I see, appreciate the feedback

[limpid bane]

HoleFiller shader of Nice-guy looks cool. It fills harsh holes between tree leaves.

[scarlet lagoon]

the description of the shader says that its for trees

[candid belfry]

yes, that is what he said it does LMAO

[thorn sun]

Is there guide to put reshade on lossless

[thorn sun]

The furthest i got is this and I couldn't open reshade

[limpid bane]

you can't open the menu unfortunately

[thorn sun]

So how did you put anti aliasing

[limpid bane]

manually edited the preset file

or do it in another game and then copy paste the preset

[nova radish]

you can actually open the menu using an x-input controller + using LB + RB + Start

[candid belfry]

does reshade just do that? even without LS that is just convenient for the games i play on controller

[nova radish]

yup, i think you need to enable "GamepadNavigation=1" on the reshade.config

It should work from there

It does work with reshade, heres a short clip. You can see LS fps counter on top left

Other users have had problems with controllers. Technically any x-input controller should work, I use dualsense with ds4windows emulation

But some users have had very bad luck. Not sure why, so you may need to try a few different reshade versions (6.3.3, 6.2.1 etc), it doesnt seem to work for everyone ig

[zenith adder]

if anti-aliasing is added to ReShade, only SMAA or CMAA2 make sense, as all other shaders are very ineffective or very blurry. Those were the two best post-process AA shaders.

Theirs also forks of them online that are lighter on performance. So I'd use them as a base.

[stone shard]

I'm not promoting myself, but CAA is equally effective, edge detection makes sure the blurred parts are only on the contours and even then it's not exaggerated

[zenith adder]

Convolution Anti-Aliasing? Well could you upload some screenshots on like IMGSLI or something of SMAA vs CMAA2 vs CAA and stuff then? Because I'm not familiar with it as its not a common AA technique and I cant find any comparisons of it online

I mean we have this: https://imgsli.com/MzIxMDA0/0/2

But it compares no AA vs CAA, not SMAA, which for years now has been regarded as the best post-process AA to exist

[stone shard]

Yes, in the case of CAA you have to increase the kernels according to the need, in the comparison I used the default of 3 which is light

in the image comparison, there is no pure SMAA but there is FSMAA (DFTAA)

[zenith adder]

Yeah and DFTAA looks better than CAA in terms of aliasing quality, so if I based my judgement off that I'd have to say SMAA is better.

I'll do my own comparison though when I have time

[zenith adder]

Okay so I did my own tests. Here's what I'll say.

SMAA smooths geomtric edges better than CAA, like actually smooths them out while CAA leaves them jagged.

However CAA reduces the highlights on aliasing, making it less harsh on the eyes.

So combining them together actually creates a very good post-process anti-aliasing method, they work nicely together. (a little blurry though obviously, so I need to use sharpening to get around it)

But on their own I prefer the superior aliasing of SMAA.

Maybe you can try making a SMAA + CAA shader though, like you did with DFTAA

[stone shard]

thanks for the feedback! in the case of the aliasing it's the distortion that's causing it, right? normally you're supposed to get the blurred edges

[zenith adder]

No, just the games normal aliasing. It gets blurred like its suppose to, but SMAA actually straightens some of those jagged edges into lines like it would look like with MSAA.

Also CAA looks similar to your DLAA Lite, but like a less strong version of it. When making it more aggressive it looks a lot like DLAA Lite.

[dense dune]

using pure DSR for that should work

[limpid bane]

intel doesn't have something similar to DSR. too bad

[fresh dove]

DLDSR/DSR is better than any aa plugin/tool you can think of

[limpid bane]

yep it's amazing

dldsr(dekstop resolution) + dlss + LSFG

[dense dune]

nah DLDSR on desktop is pure cancer

pure x4 DSR with DLSS is best

[limpid bane]

yeah but dsr works only on Fullscreen

you can't use LS on Fullscreen

[dense dune]

you can set DSR resolution on desktop

[limpid bane]

that's what I said

ah you mean Dsr and not dldsr?

[dense dune]

yep

[fresh dove]

It's great better than dldsr but at 4k x4 is too much.

[dense dune]

at 4k you should just use DLAA

or DLAA with Output Scaling with 2.0 value in OptiScaler

[fresh dove]

Garbage compared to DLDSR/DSR

I'd just use the 1.75x

[dense dune]

what

I thought you meant DSR with DLAA

[fresh dove]

Nope

DSR with DLSS

best

[dense dune]

yeah

[fresh dove]

Dlss3.8 is so good at performance mode

[oblique osprey]

note that (DL)DSR means FG will be running at the high resolution, which can take up a lot of GPU time and is overkill... you can use the resolution scale slider to cancel it out, but it'll still take more GPU time than if the game was natively downsampling itself

for old games, you can use NVIDIA Profile Inspector and force 16xS MSAA, this is generally faster and less troublesome than 4x (DL)DSR. This is 4x SSAA + 4x MSAA in disguise (GPUs don't have actual 16x MSAA, so the NVIDIA driver does that instead). This only works on forward-rendered games up to the Direct3D 9 era though (basically any game where forcing MSAA works)

[limpid bane]

@oblique osprey you can use dlss or LS1 to upscale before downscaling

or use dlaa if available

[fresh dove]

What about dx11/12 games

[oblique osprey]

they generally use deferred renderers so forcing MSAA won't work

some use forward renderers, but it's the exception, not the rule

[rustic lynx]

Just use Immerse SMAA via ReShade

Looks like MSAA 16x and eats up basically no resources

[fresh dove]

I think with Fortnite and some unreal engine games you can change the render but I'm not sure. But J think that's not recommended at all.

The trick with Fortnite I think is when you switch to the mobile render you get forward

[oblique osprey]

SMAA lacks subpixel details, it's not quite as good in motion even if it looks good in stills 😦

[rustic lynx]

That's where vort_motion comes in

It's TAA is more of a temporal aliasing filter than actual TAA

It should work real good cleaning up SMAA output, while keeping the resource impact reasonably low

[limpid bane]

you can try this too

[rustic lynx]

Also, isn't SMAA's whole schtick being subpixel too?

It reconstructs some pixels instead of blurring everything like FXAA

[rustic lynx]

ASAA makes no sense here

It's whole schtick is "spatial AA based on human eye's natural predisposition to seamlessly blend small detail within high FPS"

Thus it makes sense for it to be used on its own, but on high Hz like 240Hz and up

If it's lower than that it will look like outline film grain of sorts

[limpid bane]

I use it after frame generation and before TAA. I think taa takes the jitter away and smooths the edges even more

[oblique osprey]

vort_motion looks great, I should try it

[clear whale]

That's a take

To me smaa just looks like 1.5x MSAA at best

[junior ore]

Yeah comparing it to 16x MSAA is a stretch lol.

[brazen stone]

I believe it was made by a worker/s at crytek as well. But yes, less blur than FXAA. It looks sharper overall and if it's not enough for a game, I suggest FXAA in that case if its between those two options. I personally have been known to combine both together in some cases LMAO. Usually if a game has something that has really bad edging where it looks like its rendered in 1080 for an object but the rest of the game is in like 4K. Usually transparent edges that are untouched by game engine or any AA. I like to use Contrast Adaptive Sharpening if using TAA or the likes, usually, or if the game has less detailed textures to have them fake look a bit upscaled or current resolution rather than lower resolution.

[viral fulcrum]

There is no AA better than MSAA and not all games can use dgvoodoo2 for it. You can't even see a difference using Reshade AA most of the time and I dont like my games tied to nvidia or amd control panel overriding. Heck, my amd control panel hasnt even worked since i got a rog ally.

[rustic lynx]

There is no AA better than MSAA
I think TSSAA is the best AA, but it was, like, in a handful of games really

mainly World of Tanks, Titanfall 2, Apex, and id Soft games

Probably coz it's literally 2x MSAA with some fancy frame accumulation to work around TAA blur

[fresh dove]

Dldsr best

[dense dune]

DSR

[fresh dove]

Yes

[viral fulcrum]

control panel dsr is kinda bad. you cant customize it like you can with dgvoodoo2 or like you could with gedosato back in the day.

[fresh dove]

You have smoothness slider and DSR 1x till 4x

[viral fulcrum]

bad as in you cant do custom rezzes. they are fixed to multiples of the original rez. also, it breaks other forms of AA in alot of games. while dgvoodoo2, dxvk, gedosato, and special k doesnt. for example, using dsr on ffxiii, game becomes pixelated if not in exclusive fullscreen mode. while the others work perfectly no matter if in fs, borderless, or windowed. this issue exists for dsr in nvidia, amd, and plain intel. LS doesnt work in exclusive fullscreen mode so using DSR, you wouldnt be able to use this program at the same time.

[limpid bane]

What if you set desktop resolution using DSR and then set borderless Fullscreen?

[fresh dove]

What good alternative to DSR in your opinion? There are many

[viral fulcrum]

that's actually the viewpoint i was speaking from. if using in-game only, it usually changes the desktop anyway most of the time. but dsr on the desktop with the game in window mode works exactly as described above. most games grey out resolution in their options when it window mode and disables certain types of other aa. some games with borderless fullscreen, some work correctly some don't. msaa achieves this same thing so we dont have to worry about that with almost equal pull on processing power. sometimes msaa blocks depth info though which is need for 3D or that shadow/light effect that yall like.

[viral fulcrum]

the ones i named above excluding gedosato because it's outdated. dgvoodoo2 for dx9 (converts dx9 to 10,11,12), dxvk for dx11 (converts dx11 to vulkan), and special k which allocates to any backend (but it's glitchy and hard to manage).

so i mostly dgvoodoo2 or dxvk

correction, actually i dont think dxvk can do it. so dgvoodoo2 (dx9 base only) or special k (if you like to have headaches)

[viral fulcrum]

Console Emulators do it the best. I wish it wasnt so janky for native PC. Emus call it increasing internal resolution. To me I think it's the exact same as downsampling.

[hexed totem]

Agreed. Been using DSR for a decade since it launched. Literally my most favourite driver feature of all time.

[nova radish]

I have started using Sarenyas neural net anti aliasing with LS whenever the need arises. Has great edge resolve and can AA a lot of non-TAA games very well at the expense of high cost

Evil quaint made a slightly optimised version which was merged with the main repo a few days back. Heres the shader

https://github.com/manciuszz/NN-Shaders

I will include a few A/B shots vs Native 4k, 8K, FXAA, SMAA+FXAA, SMAA+Reshade TAA (w/CAS)

https://imgsli.com/MzM4MDQw/

Native 4k V NNAA

8K v NNAA

https://imgsli.com/MzM4MDQ1

4K v NNAA

8K v NNAA

It is not light, costs 9ms on my card. But on jrpgs/games with performance to spare, not a bad deal. Ideally the shaders Tensorflow model gets tweaked or the dev can make it work with less passes. For now it seems to bruteforces with a lot of weights, but very interesting none the less. Thanks to chaolachao for mentioning this shader earlier this week

Runs fine when injected into LS

[rustic lynx]

that's one small step for LSAA, one giant leap for LS2 :))))

[dense dune]

9ms is huge

[pastel finch]

NNAA costs me around 12ms on Kingdom Come Deliverance on the Vega 7, it sorta works with LSFG since I'm still getting 25fps base

image output is quite nice, aside from the chainmail armor being weirdly blended

the entire shader recently got ported to FP16 so I guess that's why it runs fine enough on Vega

[clear whale]

Yet another future dual gpu use case

[dense dune]

https://tenor.com/view/dlovan-willem-dafoe-gif-24004338

[cinder trail]

3060 main GPU
4090 for all the bells and whistles (still can't keep up)

[tropic siren]

I am seeing many different options to use AA, most of which involve some kind of injecting into the game, something that LSFG doesn't do. Are there any options that work like LSFG, which don't require injecting into the game itself which brings along a lot of problems in many games? Or is there enough demand for having AA included into LSFG?

[limpid bane]

Actually we are injecting Reshade into Lossless scaling and not into the games. This way Reshade will use it's shaders after frame generation too. No depth buffer though.

[verbal mountain]

At first i thought it was comparable to SMAA, but as i tried different games i noticed it catches more edges and doesn't negatively affect text in a noticeable way. Thanks for sharing.

[lethal nimbus]

is this coming to LS 💀?

[zenith adder]

How do you inject into LS, I've never been able to bring up the menu.

[nova radish]

You need an xinput controller, or use Ds4windows on a d-input device like dualsense. Need to use L1+R1+Start as this only works with gamepad navigation. There is a guide here #1271345669545922631 message, needs a simple "GamepadNavigation = 1" after local install on top of LS in the .ini (You dont need to download the .ini in that linked forum post)

[zenith adder]

Awesome. Too bad keyboard input doesn't work though. That sounds inconvenient.

Also if you want to check out some of my ReShade AA presets you can here: https://www.nexusmods.com/site/mods/1111

[clear whale]

It was terrible when I tried it honestly

[rustic lynx]

looks inside
SMAA + NNAA

https://tenor.com/view/gmod-ragdoll-video-game-video-game-gif-20573521

temporal
SMAA + NNAA + DLAA Lite + Vort

holy shit, talk about overengineering stuff

although i'm interested in these extra in-house AAs you have there

brb

[cold jackal]

NNAA + TFAA is all i need

[rustic lynx]

okay, all of these outside of NAA and ASAA are forks

[zenith adder]

Yes, I made ASAA myself using persistence of vision as a form of AA. Its experimental but it's based on science

[zenith adder]

That's the best combo to keep it simple. SMAA gets jaggies NNAA doesn't and vice versa.

Also my SMAA values are tweaked from vanilla and gets edges better.

[clear whale]

I found all of them either blurrier than TAA or are completly ineffective

[zenith adder]

Yes it progressively gets more & more heavy as you move up. I only do this because some people like to use these ReShades on EXTREMELY aliased games

[zenith adder]

Every ReShade AA in effective, unless the game has minimal amounts of pixel crawl already. Nothing is going to beat a games actual TAA in terms of effective anti-aliasing.

But if you're someone who really can't bare the ghosting & motion smear of TAA, these are the best options you have.

And the bluriness is due to the fact the more edges a game has the more the image blurs, so different sharpening levels are needed on a per game basis.

Halo Infinite needs a ton, Back 4 Blood needed a moderate amount, and Farlight 84 needed almost none.

So it's hard to setup a universal sharpness value, it's something that needs adjusted on a per game basis.

All anti-aliasing blurs to some extent & come bundled with sharpening, the real issue is the amount of artifacts it generates & how much aliasing it cleans up. The ideal ratio is different based on what bothers you more though.

[zenith adder]

Using it in a game like DBD (what the showcase displayed) is amazing. The TAA sucks in the game & theirs not too much aliasing with AA off so post-process AA's will work well. I use HYAA 1x in that game.

[zenith adder]

I just tried TFAA right now. I remember I used it in the past. Holy crap does that thing smear the entire image when you move the camera lol.

I have no idea how anyone uses that. I tried every setting and it still looks bad.

[cold jackal]

Are you using the dev branch?

Stable is very outdated

[zenith adder]

Can you link me to it? I didnt see it

[stone shard]

you have to use motion vectors like motion estimation, Vort or Marty Launchpad along with any shader that uses temporal data

the result is much better although it is a little heavy

[cold jackal]

https://github.com/JakobPCoder/ReshadeTFAA/tree/dev

I would use launchpad with it

Both branches are old but dev is less old

Sadly it seeems to of been abandoned

It’s not as good as any in game taa implementation

It’s mainly just for games that basically don’t have any form of good AA

[stone shard]

In fact, it's because there's nothing really relevant to improve, because the more you improve a temporal anti-aliasing shader, the closer it gets to being inefficient.

[zenith adder]

Yeah I tried newer version, not great. Unless I did something wrong.

Vort TAA is better. Only issue with it is some games wobble and its broken. When it actually works though its good. When it TFAA is better

Anyways here's my beta version of my shaders/presets: https://www.mediafire.com/file/ynicv7m32y0qyxa/Hybred+AA.zip/file

Two shaders I made myself, a couple I forked. Its more up to date than the NexusMods version

[stone shard]

nice

[nova radish]

Thanks ill check them out. I like your gamerease portal with TAA comp. Previously I have only tried an SMAA shader you had, there seems to be more in that link that I look forward to testing

I see the mediafire link above too. Personally i am not a fan of TFAA, i like simple NNAA + SMAA. But you seem to have a lot of shaders, this should be fun

[rustic lynx]

Tbf I think SMAA+Vort combo is real nice. The former cleans up the image, the latter tries to clean up the shimmer in-motion

If the shimmer is too much I just get CMAA2 which is basically "for the same computing cost we'll find less edges but clean more shimmer aliasing"

Recent CMAA2 updates made it basically just as efficient as Marty's SMAA, so I guess it's a great way to AA your stuff without demolishing UI nor being temporarily unstable all over the place

[stone shard]

Has CMAA2 been updated? I remember it had been discontinued

[rustic lynx]

Yeah, LordOfLunacy added extra textures to precalc the shape detection

[zenith adder]

Yes Vort is the best TAA shader when it works, but a couple games have this weird wobbly affect that breaks the image and idk why, which makes it unusable at times

[zenith adder]

Yes I like the TAA comp as well.

I have a SMAA + NNAA preset in my mod. I tuned SMAA to capture the most jaggies as possible at 1440p, so if you're at the same resolution it's an ideal setup

[dense dune]

i tbh never used Vort TAA shader, is there any example of how it looks?

[zenith adder]

My preset/mod uses it if you want to try, I dont have any screenshots although its better to use it yourself for motion comparisons

[rustic lynx]

Imagine a fence in a video game

When there's no AA, it shimmers when you move

When there's AA like SMAA, it still shimmers due to edges being smoothened out and nothing else

Vort tries to overcome this by calculating optical flow on the fly and applying AA mask during motion

[zenith adder]

Here's some presets. My beta version has 4 different sharpening tiers (none, light, normal, high) so you can change it based on preference/game

Anti-Aliasing Comparison - No AA vs SMAA vs SMAA + FXAA vs HYAA vs SMAA + FXAA + HYAA: https://imgsli.com/MzQwMDc4

Anti-Aliasing Comparison - No AA vs HYAA 2x vs xHYAA vs xHYAA x2: https://imgsli.com/MzQwMzE2

xHYAA is extremely effective, almost no specular aliasing, but it looks odd in some games, depends on the enviroment & art style

[dense dune]

yeah i know all this stuff xd, just wanted to see it

[nova radish]

Im at 4k, what parameters should I adjust to catch more edges? Seems like there are presets like light/normal/high. I could manually adjust, but if you have some base params you'd recommend, let me know

[zenith adder]

For edge detect at 1440p I use 0.027 - 0.067 depending on the game, default is 0.100. Thats the setting thats mostly resolution/game related. Lower the better, until you experience visual anomalies like a line blending too much or flickering.

I think the default values will look fine though at 4k.

[nova radish]

Update to NNAA, Quaint modifed K size to 512 and made compiler optimisations, i see 0 perceptible difference vs Sarenyas variant

https://github.com/manciuszz/NN-Shaders/tree/master

https://imgsli.com/MzQwNDUz/ Sarenyas latest changes, vs Quaint K size modified

Sarenya new shader at 4k, 8ms now

Quaints

At 1440p, the uplift is likely not as big. Probably 0.2-0.3 ms, but at higher res it seems to scale a lot more

[limpid bane]

a fork of NNAA? 🤔

[nova radish]

Yes

[limpid bane]

looks great!

[verbal mountain]

Vort's TAA/Motion blur is awesome, but it can also be heavy 😭. Hurtin for a GPU upgrade.

[nova radish]

I ended up testing all your shader variants. I prefer the simple SMAA + NNAA + Vortmotion combination, should be HYAAT2x

https://imgsli.com/MzQwNTE0/

Depending on content, i stick with SMAA + NNAA, or use lunacys CMAA2 + NNAA

I would also update the NNAA variant you use and swap it with quaints/change K size to 512

Default NNAA on your preset

Quaints, swapped

Saves 4.4ms at 4k, looks identical

[limpid bane]

what do you mean K size? NNAA is almost as heavy as vort motion for me

[nova radish]

K size = Kernel size, it alters the sampling area/spread of the effect. The cost of NNAA depends on the resolution. At lower res, it becomes easier to run. Default for NNAA is 128, but 512 should be lighter and look identical. There is a direct example here #1210648884955848734 message

Cost of NNAA at 1440p

4k

Default NNAA shader with kernel size of 128 would cost 8 ms at 4k, 3 ms at 1440p. I see no difference between 128 and 512 at 4k and it saves 3ms of compute. 512k is attached below (thanks to quaint for that sweetspot)

[fresh dove]

why hassle with all of this, i just save my time, headaches and efforts and use dldsr x1.75 or 2.25x it is superior to any of these stuff

[clear whale]

"just throw 75-125% more compute at it"

All for it to look like an AI filter

[zenith adder]

can you send me a direct link to the file I should update? Wheres this fork at

[zenith adder]

I prefer that too for aliased games, or default HYAA if its not too aiased.

I dont use CMAA2 because SMAA is more effective. CMAA2's only advantage is being sharper ig, but some Luma sharpening can offset that with SMAA

[nova radish]

https://github.com/manciuszz/NN-Shaders/tree/master

Yes I do like SMAA and NNAA standalone quite a bit. That's what I primarily use and can be injected to LS for use with online games

Forks above, should have some compiler optimisations on top which may or may not help, ymmv

[limpid bane]

This is another fork? Which one should we follow 😅

[nova radish]

Keep following quaints + sarenya, same link, just resent since Hybred missed the first link

[stone shard]

using SMAA already makes a big difference

[fresh dove]

Meanwhile DLDSR:

💀 this thing is crazy

wish we can get a reshade that does DLDSR level of quality with out changing your desktop/game resoultion

like if we can modify some of these reshades to use x16 msaa even at a cost slightely more than dldsr but at similar quality ill take that over dldsr

whle dldsr is better, it just scales so bad with lsfg

[stone shard]

Implementing a real MSAA in Reshade is impossible because MSAA needs pure forward render

[fresh dove]

sadge

[dense dune]

DSR better

[verbal mountain]

TFAA dev branch has launchpad support. seems much sharper/clearer than vort motion. https://github.com/JakobPCoder/ReshadeTFAA/blob/dev/TFAA.fx

[limpid bane]

You can modify Vort to make it less blurry. There are 3 values. Jitter, sharpness and one other that is the most important. The default value is 0,2. Try setting 0,25 or 0,3

[dense dune]

1.4 ms cost with Launchpad for me, not bad, also it would need some SMAA or something that uses launchpad for specular aliasing since it kinda shimmers in motion

[dense dune]

vort motion doesnt even work for me at all

like it doesnt access/get any motion vectors or anything

[limpid bane]

even the default vort's motion vectors?

[dense dune]

yeah

i used the 1 mode option

game is dying light 1

[limpid bane]

I'm playing dying light too and it's awesome. This game really needs temporal antialiasing

[dense dune]

TFAA with "vort motion"

[dense dune]

tbh gaming at 4k with AA off looks already good enough for me

[dense dune]

heres 1080p

[limpid bane]

you have to enable vort TAA right? Did you set TAA=1?

[dense dune]

changed nothing

[limpid bane]

weird

[nova radish]

Yes, thats why i pair it w/Martys Smaa & VortMotion, where I am quite happy with the results. Thats the same as Hybreds HYAAT2x

For shimmer some tend to prefer the dev branch of TFAA w/Launchpad which i think looks a bit too soft. So you have some options there to tackle shimmering

Some titles like Baldurs Gate 3 dont shimmer and only require NNAA + SMAA. In specific titles such as BG3 I find DLDSR to ruin the image with over blending/painterly look, thats plastic like. Online games such as Hell Let Loose can also get away with NNAA + SMAA only w/ injection via LS

[dense dune]

for a game like HLL i use DSR for 4k since this game is CPU bound anyways, free GPU horsepower helps there

[nova radish]

DSR is not a bad choice, yet AA is a lot cheaper. While brute force is a choice, games like Metaphor look worse off even downscaled from 8K vs NNAA, so more tools/flexibility

[dense dune]

so without mixing just go for HYAAT2x?

[nova radish]

I find that combo a very safe choice, upto you and the game. Play around, i was already using the derivatives of HYAAT2x, i like Hybreds SMAA params better so that got ported over

[fresh dove]

That's DSR though kekw

[dense dune]

#1210648884955848734 message

you said different

[fresh dove]

Yeah. Dldsr and dsr

Three pics the highest res one is dsr

I did many tests and DSR was better in everything expect for performance

[naive briar]

Dldsr is DSR with DLSS filtering or what ever it tries to be
I tried DLDSR in CS:GO and it oversharpened almost everything
I guess with new DLSS versions DLDSR could have also be getting some silent improvements, but it looked terrible compared to DSR at least for me
I might give it a try again if you say it was comparable to DSR but with better performance

[fresh dove]

DSR looked better but not significant. The performance of dldsr is great tho

If you have enough GPU headroom stick to dsr

[limpid bane]

if dldsr is too sharp you can set it to 50%+. 33% is like 0% DSR

[clear whale]

Just looks like it was sharpened then blurred then.

[naive briar]

What is the performance difference 2.25 DSR and 2.25 DLDSR?

[clear whale]

Within margin of error of most testing

[nova radish]

Ended up playing and testing FF8 Rebirth, and the general AA situation of that game is quite bad. Ended up injecting Preset J (Transformer) DLSS to do some A/B comps with NNAA

https://imgsli.com/MzQyNjc0/

Persistent issue w/Fine line on DLSS4 (fine line, fishing nets, chain, leaves). TAAU correctly handles that at the cost of pixel crawl

NNAA resolves the persistent dithering and banding issue on both CNN/Transformer DLSS

DLAA Dither (includes all dlss upscaling/native pass)

Whilst TAAU in still images look fine, it has shimmer + pixel crawl which DLSS avoids. TAA is unusable, soft & smeary. TAAU is generally fine, one can use Vortmotion to clean up shimmer + use NNAA & TAAU get good image resolve (CAS for sharpness if needed). Worth the big milisecond overhead if one has the performance to spare

Im starting to notice banding/dithering and general fine line errors on the transformer model. Good step forward, but much can be improved. Volumetrics can also band, however it looks better than CNN equil in this game. NNAA is still very useful. One could pair NNAA + TAAU Q/DLSS Q for better image resolve. Lower res TAAU shimmer may be too much, where DLSS looks fine enough

[dense dune]

it seems like it has lots of issues with foliage

i mean the Transformer model, even in CP 2077, it flickers a lot in motion

[twin vault]

Updated 2 years ago... 😢

[verbal mountain]

Maybe just stick with vort motion, after using both for a little bit they both have slight artifacting and Launchpad can add an additional hefty cost.

https://slow.pics/c/Djm2FNql simple comparison I made for NNAA with switch emulation

[twin vault]

My exact thoughts, and i can add that vort's taa is being actively updated, while tfaa was updated 2 years ago

I basically use vort's with default settings + 0.07 jitter, but i had little time tweaking it. There may be a better config

[twin vault]

nnaa.fx with K=512
2.
[vort_Motion.fx]
PreprocessorDefinitions=V_ENABLE_TAA=1
UI_TAA_Alpha=0.100000
UI_TAA_Jitter=0.050000
UI_TAA_Sharpen=0.500000
couldnt notice anything bad, tested with some chain link fences on cb2077, reduced a lot of fence crawling, but some still remain

adding smaa or cmaa2 before or after nnaa only introduces artifacts and re-introduces shimmering and a effect on weird angled/distant cables that makes them thin again

nnaa manages to make the cables whole, but adding smaa/cmaa makes they thin like with no aa

@nova radish whats your tweak for smaa?

[nova radish]

SMAA_CORNER_ROUNDING=80 SMAA_DEPTH_THRESHOLD=0.010000 SMAA_MAX_SEARCH_STEPS=112 SMAA_MAX_SEARCH_STEPS_DIAG=25 SMAA_PREDICATION=0 SMAA_PREDICATION_SCALE=2.000000 SMAA_PREDICATION_STRENGTH=0.400000 SMAA_PREDICATION_THRESHOLD=0.010000 SMAA_THRESHOLD=0.050000

Marty SMAA with Hybreds parameters tweaked as needed. For SMAA Threshold 0.050 - 0.075 depending on the game at my res. 0.027 - 0.070 are good ranges to mess around with

[twin vault]

uhn, thats too much... i needed a global config, tweaking for each game is too much trouble

after testing and taking pics and benchmarking some stuff, i concluded that vort taa at 0.100 alpha is too blurry for moving scenes (i tested a stationary scene first). maybe going to the default (0.200) can make it better, but we'll get more shimmering on fences.

also, i felt like sgsr was the best upscaling when in motion, but can be placebo

[nova radish]

You dont need to change it on a per game basis. You can use the default smaa shader if you dont want Martys, change the threshold once and pretty much use it with any game

[stone shard]

Yes, by entering the .fx using a text editor you can change the values of the uniforms.

[zenith adder]

Updated

Mod Page: https://www.nexusmods.com/site/mods/1111
Direct DL: https://www.mediafire.com/file/ynicv7m32y0qyxa/Hybred_AA.zip/file

• Updated NNAA to latest version with KSize 512 tweak
• Added sharpening presets

[ember scroll]

So how do I go about installing reshade onto LSFG and tinkering with the settings? From what I can gather it's more advanced because the overlay doesn't work, so I don't even know if I've installed it correctly.

[twin vault]

started using only nnaa+vort's taa, disabled vort's taa motion vectors. didnt notice any big difference, and the taa shader ms dropped from 1.2ms to 0.3ms

now if only nnaa gets a temporal fix and a performance boost, it'll be the perfect aa

[stone shard]

The creator of nnaa is active on reshade, talking to other developers, so this year there may be more updates

[novel chasm]

There are a lot of features that aren't "upscaling" features in lossless scaling.

[fresh dove]

how this compares to DLDSR?

[stone shard]

I updated the DLAA Lite but the calculation was not changed, only code optimizations

[stone shard]

Reshade TFAA 1.0
First reshade update by me in a long time. Tried to finish an old rework of by most used shader.
New shader that is both simpler and looks cleaner imo.
Reworked most parts of the code in some way.
Removed some features that were never finished or not useful.
Made the UI much more user-friendly.
Added comments and docstrings, to make it usable by other devs.
This effect is only one file now for convenience.

https://github.com/JakobPCoder/ReshadeTFAA

JakobPCoder
.

[cold jackal]

Hmm is it just pushing the dev changes to main?

Dev branch is on 2.0

[stone shard]

yes

[cold jackal]

Oh

[nova radish]

Will test TFAA again. Last I remember it being too blurry, I don't remember if I tried the dev branch or not

[cold jackal]

If so that’s less exciting

[stone shard]

1.0
New shader that is both simpler and looks cleaner imo.
Reworked most parts of the code in some way.
Removed some features that were never finished or not useful.
Made the UI much more user-friendly.
Added comments and docstrings, to make it usable by other devs.
This effect is only one file now for convenience

[cold jackal]

Maybe it is new changes?

[stone shard]

yes

[twin vault]

"It requires Marty McFly's LAUNCHPAD.fx."
Latest Launchpad is using almost 2ms here. Probably too heavy to be worth. But will take a look. I'm currently using Vort's TAA with no motion vectors, its very light and effective, and doesnt need depth buffers.

[cold jackal]

Have you tried lowering launchpads quality settings?

[twin vault]

it comes with quarter resolution by default now, its not even half like it was before. previous version i used was half resolution and was about 1ms, new version is quarter resolution and about 2ms

[cold jackal]

Oof

[twin vault]

launchpad (defaults) + nnaa (512) + tfaa = 3.7ms
nnaa (512) + vort's taa (motion vectors OFF) = 2.8ms

and nnaa + vort's taa looks better

lol, launchpad + tfaa causes wobbling, even using launchpad's highest quality settings

oh well, sticking to vort's again. and turned on his motion vectors again, it helps in slow camera panning scenes

[twin vault]

looks like launchpad needs depth buffer. also looks like vort's taa doesnt. I turned off reshade's generic depth addon, tfaa stopped working, but vort's taa didnt.

[limpid bane]

wait Vort taa works without motion vectors?

[twin vault]

It works, but looks a liiiitle bit worse. I only noticed yesterday, in a scene where the camera pans slowly and there's a debris that shimmers more when motion vectors are off. Turning on the motion vectors makes the debris shimmer way less.

You can try it yourself, set PreprocessorDefinitions=V_MV_MODE=0

its quite faster than mv 1

[limpid bane]

New TFAA is really good! I use it on games that have depth buffer. For emulators I apply vort taa on top of LSFG, since taa doesn't work well with 30fps games

[twin vault]

NNAA is really amazing... It only lacks performance and a temporal fix.

[stone shard]

There will be no temporal correction but you can use TFAA for that (it's pretty good)

[twin vault]

That picture has vorts taa. I meant i wanted a picture without vorts taa to compare the blurriness. Only nnaa.

I didnt like the new TFAA at all. Still using vort's

Btw, dont try nnaa on ls.exe if you're targeting a lot of fps like 200 or 300... 😅

If only we could run the reshade shaders before the upscaling and the frame generation, without injecting into the game...

Maybe 2 instances of ls.exe? One doing nothing, the other doing upscaling/framegen?

[limpid bane]

it used to be able but now multiple instances is not possible...

[twin vault]

https://imgsli.com/MzUyMzUy
New set with NNAA vs NNAA+Vort TAA

wow, to my surprise, vort's taa actually SHARPENS the image 😅

I use a bit of sharp on taa to counter the blurriness. Vort's TAA kinda introduces some image artifacts, not good. The temporal fix must come from NNAA itself. We can only hope the guy does it.

Vort's TAA also re-introduces some jaggies, not good at all. Maybe disabling the sharpener would help, and use a better sharpener like CAS.

[twin vault]

ok, last one
https://imgsli.com/MzUyMzc0

Indeed, disabling vort's taa sharpener and enabling cas after taa is better. Its closer to original image, but without the aliasing.

[fresh dove]

cant u just use brute higher res into those emulation games

and DLDSR for desktop games?

[twin vault]

Yes, we can. that pic is 1440p internal resolution in a 1080p desktop (cant use dldsr cause laptop monitor is plugged to intel igpu).
Even with a higher internal resolution, im still getting jaggies. NNAA took care of them.

[fresh dove]

i dont get it, are u trying to say NNAA can remove jaggies even better than dldsr

[nova radish]

did some quick rough comparisons of RIS 2 in actions. Seems to be a good step up from RIS1 which i never liked

https://imgsli.com/MzU2NjA1

https://imgsli.com/MzU2NjEw

seems to do a bit of edge smoothing, 20% strength in these ss. Looks good in motion and avoids over sharpening already sharp scenes like grass etc

[clear whale]

You got a 9000 series?

[nova radish]

9070xt, yes

[clear whale]

How's LSFG performance on it

[nova radish]

not bad, 15-16% at 4k at 100% flow scale for 120fps interpolation. Seems like the double fp16 boost is for matrix/tensor operations, not shader ops

[nova radish]

https://imgsli.com/MzU2NzI2

[verbal hare]

So, with the latest update, frame "degeneration" (basically, framerate limiter) was introduced. Seems like a legendarily useless feature. However, what about using it for temporal supersampling in old games that can run 200+FPS even on mid-range hardware? Of course, one option is to force AA through driver, but an additional function of this sort would be fun. TSSAA that does not need motion vectors because it has whole frames to interpret. Might be an interesting experiment in old games such as FEAR, FarCry, RtCW, HL, Quake, etc.

[nova radish]

Frame "degeneration" is not a feature; nor is it intended. Its just the byproduct of how AFG works. As far as super sampling for AA goes, no plans for that currently. It might change one day, who knows

[clear whale]

Frame degeneration?

[stone shard]

Yes, in adaptive mode you can have native 60fps and use LS to lock it to 30fps, making it 60>30, I don't know why anyone would want to play that way.

[clear whale]

I mean the only other option is unnecessarily locking it down

This is why devs remove stuff as people will complain about nothing

And it hurts power users who just wanna mess around with it

[stone shard]

Dude, this isn't even a feature, it's because you can select up to at least 10 fps

But I understand what you mean, I don't think ths will lock from 30fps or something like that

[stone shard]

Most of the community prefers to focus on LSFG, so we won't have upscaling with anti-aliasing any time soon.

[junior ore]

That's a real shame tho. But I can understand that the devs are just following the money.

[nova radish]

And what if Ths is more interested in working on FG and models. One may assume its "money"; yet the flip side of the coin could simply be the dev doesnt like/enjoy working on AA. This is one of our biggest threads, so its clear there is public interest. He does read #1113059980199858197 & he also has ideas/problems he prefers solving. Its not always about monetary gain

[junior ore]

In terms of publicity FG draws way more attention. You won't have clickbaity youtubers making tons of "HUGE FPS BOOST!" videos by focusing on improving upscaling quality.

Also iirc there was a poll a while ago asking which one people preferred developement to be focused on and FG won by a large margin.

[nova radish]

FG has and always will be more popular, which is correct

The poll had nothing to do with AA, and 20% did vote for a scaler. SGSR was added after that poll. You are assuming it's all about money, with no context on what happens behind the scenes or what the developer personally prefers working on. These are not mutually exclusive.

[junior ore]

I've never claimed nor implied the poll to be about AA. And I just think it's safe to assume that the devs will focus on a feature that draws more attention because they're trying to sell a product after all. Otherwise this tool would be available for free on github.

[ember scroll]

wonder how difficult it'd be to implement a plugin style system for scalers, so people could essentially create their own and share them

[pearl shadow]

Actually figured out a reasonable way to add AA on Nvidia cards: Enable DSR or DLDSR. Lossless Scaling then scales to the DSR resolution (higher than the native resolution of the monitor), and DLDSR scales it back down with an AI-powered scaler.

People already combine DLSS and DSR this way. Makes sense that it works decently with LS as well.

[empty sigil]

Gotta be performance heavy that way?

[twin vault]

thats very useful if the game doesnt have dlss/xess/fsr. if it does have any of these, its better to use them, specially the new transformers dlss4 profile k

[twin vault]

upscaling with ls1 is lighter than making the game run at a higher resolution, so its valid as an aa method. its not a supersampling though, cause internal resolution remains the same (so details wont get more detailed, but jaggies could be lessened by the dsr downscaling)

[pearl shadow]

Yeah, it's basically poor man's DLAA if you run a game at your monitors native resolution, and then have LS upscale to your DSR resolution.

[nimble garnet]

Why was TAA rejected? I thought that multiple AA options would be implemented eventually, including TAA, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

Is it one of those impossible/near impossible things to implement?

[cold jackal]

Yes

[stone shard]

Or it gets so bad it's not worth it.

[nimble garnet]

I see, thanks!

[sterile rock]

Is SGSSAA implementation possible?

[cold jackal]

No

[stone shard]

if downsampling is in the list of denied suggestions, that means all supersampling is too, since you need downsampling for it to work

[zenith adder]

As others have said no, but if you do want SGSSAA I added some SGSSAA options to my NVIDIA profile inspector fork. It works on a lot of games I play like Farlight 84. You can try that

[sterile rock]

It makes sense, it's a bummer though as it limits the potential of the app. Thank you for the answer!

[sterile rock]

That's great! Thank you for letting me know.

Does it work in MSAA supported game only?

[zenith adder]

Type in "NVPI Revamped" and no, Farlight in my example is a UE4.25 game and doesn't use MSAA it uses TAA, FXAA and no AA.

It just depends on two factors most of the time - rendering API (sometimes womt work in DX12 but will in DX11) and whether a game is deferred or forward rendered.

[stone shard]

https://github.com/BarbatosBachiko/Reshade-Shaders/blob/main/Shaders/DAA.fx

[stone shard]

I fixed the use of motion vectors today so there is no more ghosting when activating TAA

I recommend using Launchpad.fx

and yes, it works normally to use the IMERSSE Launchpad with TAA with reshade in Lossless scaling

[limpid bane]

DAA? 🤔

[stone shard]

Directional Anti-Aliasing

[zenith adder]

Last I checked your repo you had more anti-aliasing shaders I thought?

You removed them all in place of DAA?

[stone shard]

Yes

I moved it to the WIP repo

They were all just combinations of shaders, the originals worked better with the exception of the CAA which I removed just because it's heavy

I even think about splitting the DAA in two to have a lighter version and another with the current TAA

[nova radish]

Managed to get time and look at this. I generally don't discuss shaders that require depth or flow, as they can't be injected into LS.

That said, your newer shader is quite good, It still misses a few edges, but overall, it's solid. The only thing that confuses me is the cost and scaling

DAA in motion, side by side with native

Quite good in person or any still frame here which is in motion. The footage is zoomed in, but it does get most jaggies

Ended up also having a quick look vs Vort motion

[nova radish]

You did resolve ghosting. Vort using its own motion estimation does ghost quite a bit unlike Launchapd + DAA. But using Launchpad inputs + Vort TAA can resolve the stock Vort ghosting

DAA seems to be around 0.3ms which is quite fast. Vort Motion with its own motion estimation is 2.2ms, and 2.6ms with launchpad. Curious why launchpad uses 3.1 ms alone with DAA

These generally work well without softening the final image. Good job on the update. I would say it still misses more edges than Vort in motion, but resolves well. Often looking less blurry and cleaning up similar amounts of jaggies vs Vort at least in Metaphor

[stone shard]

Very good feedback

[twin vault]

You could try using vorts motion instead of launchpad, and make a preprocessor config for setting the motion vectors, like many shaders do.
Vorts's motion is way faster than launchpad, could be a good quality/performance compromise
Typed before checking the shader, my bad (lol, even the pic shows "use_vort_motion" 😅)

[stone shard]

Also try Quark_Motion, it's great

[limpid bane]

also Vort_motion + Tfaa is good!

[stone shard]

For me the best thing about TAA is being able to smooth out the flicker that depth buffer with DLSS and other temporal upscaling do.

I have an example of how it improves a lot, I'll send it later

[errant bridge]

At the end ths won't add any anti aliasing in the program

[stone shard]

Let's have faith

[errant bridge]

Hopefully

[nimble garnet]

I'm guessing he still has one more update for LSFG in mind, though if I'm right, I have no idea what's left to improve. But after that, man I'm ready for Anti-Aliasing on Lossless Scaling. Am I being too optimistic?

[errant bridge]

He needs to improve lsfg on lower PCs

[vernal yarrow]

From where exactly would you magically produce the resources and power from ??
Yes, software dev will improve output somewhat, but it is literally impossible to increase hardware performance by "downloading" better softwares/algo.

[stone shard]

It's not impossible.

the current LSFG is better than the previous one and has more performance by reducing the flow scale

Lower the flow Scale to 90 or 80 and you won't notice any difference.

[errant bridge]

Even on 25 it's so good

[vernal yarrow]

yes i know... i was arguing that lsfg 3 is already so good...
but we still need some performance headroom
for low end pc, there is a limit to how much you can squeeze out

there is always scope for improvement, not denying that.

[errant bridge]

The low PCs cry in corner😭😭

[fresh dove]

Well said.

Many are requesting this

In some situations LS will even give you worse performance than native. So i keep it off many times.

[vernal yarrow]

i tested.... to turn on 'scale' with LS and FG both off... resulting output was still very bad as compared to base fps (fps drops and stuttering)
repeat : scaling and frame gen both off

[fresh dove]

Yep

Many ways to optimise the app performance, But since there is only 1 developer, we should not expect any performance updates anytime soon, the dev just cant progress to fast, it is not healthy for him as well.

We will keep on waiting until ths finish from whatever he currently is working on, then maybe after it he focus on performance 🤩

[nimble garnet]

It feels like I'm an odd one in this server because my use cases for Lossless Scaling are in 95% of the cases lightweight games and videos, both being locked to 60 fps, where I use LSFG 3.0 X4 and just tweak the latency settings between each profile.

That's why I'm not too hyped about performance improvements, because it will not affect me, mostly. Anti-Aliasing on the other hand would be an awesome new feature for me.

[naive briar]

Give us less performant, but better quality frame-gen and AA!

[vernal yarrow]

Why less performance bro!?!?

[errant bridge]

Yeah I stand with u

[naive briar]

Because I have less then 30% GPU usage and I would love the frame gen to use the remaining 70% and not have it wasted

[stone shard]

You can do this by increasing the flow scale to 200%

[cold jackal]

Not really

Increasing causes some extra issues

Particularly it ruins smoothness

[stone shard]

Is this ghosting tolerable?

[vernal yarrow]

hmm, from the pic only, id say no

[stone shard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA0QC7P7H4c

[vernal yarrow]

if only considering the character, i would be pretty okay, but not that much with some other things... the borders of screen on camera movement, slight flickering, etc
which gets more pronounced if it is directly compared.... as in the video

[stone shard]

Thanks for the feedback, there is still a long way to go using just the color buffer

[nimble garnet]

Can't TAA use some sort of Optical Flow to recognize which pixels it should be applied to? Idea being that if the pixel hasn't moved more than a threshold distance on the last frame, TAA won't be applied to it.

[errant bridge]

Guys why we r talking about aa and ths won't add those anti aliasing things

And it's from the Rejected Ideas

[unreal rock]

Did you see aa in the rejected list? only taa is mentioned because it goes into the temporal category

[stone shard]

I would just have to invert the logic I use, but that would affect static scenes

[stone shard]

This is literally the Anti-Aliasing recommendation thread outside of LS

[nimble garnet]

🤔 I thought static scenes would be the ones not to be affected, since the distance the pixels would travel is zero, which would be lower than any threshold you could set, thus always enabling TAA in the whole screen

[errant bridge]

Any temporal upscalers

[zenith adder]

Published my ReShade shaders last week, one of them was AA. I'll post it here

Hybred Shaders

Microcontrast Reducer: This shader reduces microcontrast, helping soften overly harsh textures that result from artificial clarity boosts (forced sharpening) or excessive detail enhancement that can occur with ML-based TAA methods like DLSS 4.

Edge Sharpen: This shader sharpens only edges, unlike typical sharpening filters that do the inverse or sharpen everything. It's useful when you want outlines or edges to stand out more. It also includes an optional edge pixelation effect that mimics the look of aliasing, as if the game were running without anti-aliasing. Both the edge sharpening and pixelation features can be used separately or together.

ASAA: An anti-aliasing technique designed for high-framerate (120fps+. Although the higher the framerate, the more convincing the effect is) gaming. Instead of directly smoothing the image, it relies on a visual phenomenon called 'persistence of vision', where successive frames appear to blend together. This shader simulates that effect in a simplified way, since accurately reproducing it would require an addon and reduce game compatibility. ASAA’s main strength is reducing spurious pixels that traditional post-process AA methods fail to handle.

Future Plans: I have a BFI-esk shader but it needs more fine-tuning. I will most likely release it next week (LCD anti-retention support built in). Provide feedback or other ideas to me in DMs or my Discord server (linked on GitHub page)

GitHub Page: https://github.com/xHybred/Hybred-Shaders

[rugged hedge]

pov the actual LS devs are so stubborn random people gotta pull up and make shaders

[limpid bane]

@zenith adder Hi I have a question about ASAA. What if I use ASAA+TFAA reshade taa shader? Technically TAA will catch and clean up the high noise?

[zenith adder]

Yeah but it would defeat the purpose of it. The noise at higher framerates making temporal aliasing less distracting to the eye due to persistence of vision

[limpid bane]

hmm I could apply ASAA after LSFG right?

[sour gate]

TAA looks so nasty it's legitimately pointless

[rugged hedge]

TAA looks great if done correctly

Most games don’t do it correctly though….

[tidal frigate]

other than doing it's exact job of removing aliasing, which no one ever complained about it not removing aliasing.

[limpid bane]

it's a life saver on 1080p 🙂. You can also decrease the strength of TFAA

[rugged hedge]

tfaa is amazing

[nimble garnet]

TAA has bothered me only once, in a game where they just added it (early implementation, app in beta stage), but I see messages like yours all the time.

Do you mind listing some games that mess it up? I'm more of an indie player and rarely play AAA games, is that where most of your bad experiences come from?

[stone shard]

The only problem with TAA for me, with a 2k 60hz screen, is the blur

The only game where I saw noticeable ghosting was in split second using FSR 2

But that's more the fault of the FSR than the TAA

[limpid bane]

you can always use dlss swapper or optiscaler

[rugged hedge]

FSR is also dependent on the implementation

Because in some games it's great and in others it's hot garbage

[dim ether]

oh man i forgot how to do this

[raw bronze]

this is really good, a lot better than both the temporal filtering in DAA.fx and vort TAA

combined with CMAA2 it's incredible for games that don't have their own TAA like Batman Arkham Knight,

and that pair of shaders might be the best anti-aliasing you can get in reshade right now

[raw bronze]

In older games with MSAA options, using TFAA + CMAA2 instead would be a no-brainer for me, it still runs faster than higher MSAA options even with launchpad running and it doesn’t miss any elements

[stone shard]

Definitely not, nnaa.fx is much better but very heavy

[raw bronze]

When it’s heavy I feel like you should just use MSAA + something post-process if it’s an option

and if you’re using other shaders that need the depth buffer (MSAA often makes depth buffers unusable) then you might need the extra performance from tfaa + cmaa2

[limpid bane]

for extra performance you can use Lumenite instead of launchpad but you need a modified TFAA 😛

#1439333143201972315 message

hmm but I think it doesn't work without depth buffer. An alternative can be ZenMotion which needs another TFAA modification

[raw bronze]

that is cool thank you

I’m an rtgi enthusiast though so I’m fine with it using launchpad

[raw bronze]

which channel does this link to? It’s #unknown

[limpid bane]

Lumenite

[raw bronze]

ah ok