Organ 1 - impossible to grab spot.

[sudden flower]

If a bunny is on this edge you can't grab him from either up or down.

[forest raptor]

You can still attempt to hat grab, And if you are up there, you can actually grab through the railings/step over available benches

[sudden flower]

Its unrealistic to say hat grab as an argument when the bunny is aware you are gonna grab him.

[forest raptor]

Hat grabs have a large skill ceiling for both magi / the bunny for dodging them. If you want to take the extra time to walk up and around you can force them into the pit, or to do the tight jumps along the edge towards zip.

Your grab also works through those railings, and there is benches on the opposite side to go up and over to follow buns.

Once imposter bunnies are up too, an active imposter makes short work of those there.

---

There is also the option of: If bun is in strong spot, especially on 1st, just walk away and pressure elsewhere.

But I see skilled magis make short work of organ-1 chases all the time, this includes hat grabs along the edge.

[raven grotto]

no there isn't, there is no "skill ceiling" for bunnies to avoid hat grabs, it's literally just walk in the opposite direction or to not stop moving, there is no skill to it lol, especially when on an ungrabbable edge

[forest raptor]

Normally pay attention to where the magi is looking to see if hes leading you a bit, its no different then being on a luggage pile / getting on top of boxcarts

Just like how some magis will ceiling flick in low ceiling rooms so its harder to predict the hat grab in those situations

[sudden flower]

The level of biased you need to defend god spot is crazy.

[random night]

Ngl i dont think this is a bias nor a god spot. I pretty much only play magi and i‘ve never had an issue hat grabbing people there. Yeah obvs you miss sometimes. But you can mindgame ALOT with the hat.

And yeah from upstairs you can grab through the railing. Or just use the bench there to get walk it. And continue the chase like that.

[sudden flower]

Godspot might be where you can only use the hatgrab to catch a bunny, and its obviously not fair.

Like getting hat grab out of luck isn't a reason to let that in the game.

[random night]

There‘s a difference between luck and skill mate

And imo mindgames are part of the skill area

[sudden flower]

Lol the bunny got 1sec and an half to dodge with the animation.

[random night]

So? Place it where they dodge to

[sudden flower]

Yeah as i said, bias af.

[random night]

They dont see the giant red circle until it comes out and grabs them + if they dodge into it you grab them

Sure. Because im biased to help my opponents?

[sudden flower]

And this is a god spot so my post isn't off topic.

Like i am sure you can hatgrab on any god spot if you are lucky, doesn't make it balance.

[random night]

Eh not quiet. Theres spots you cant hatgrab nor grab normally. Thats a „god spot“ in my opinion

[sudden flower]

Same response.

#1471321882488864848 message

[random night]

Those are for obvious reasions bad for the game. But a spot to mindgame around is imo part of the fun. Besides- if we remove areas like this you meight as well make the map flat and just go „oh just walk into the bunnies and grab them. They cant run away anyways“

[forest raptor]

Its a spot with counter play, and line of sight for a hat grab.

A god spot would be something like above the bed in perf 2.

Where magi has no line of sight for the grab, and has to guess where you are

[random night]

Agreed

[sudden flower]

Its not dbd, there shouldn't be place when the hat grab, as shitty as it is, should be the only way to get a bunny.

[forest raptor]

yes there is

[sudden flower]

Like you don't have time to "Loop around" sh/t.

[forest raptor]

Any luggage pile / cart box tile

[random night]

@sudden flower are you a killermain in dbd?

Just curious. Would explain a bunch though

[sudden flower]

Idk about this stupid arguing ngl.

[forest raptor]

The point is, that spot;

• magi can still hat grab from below / above / etc
• can still go behind and step over the railing
• can still normal grab through the railing

It could possibly benefit from an;

• extra bench to walk over one of the sections
• a break in the barrier, similar to the other side of organ (with a wooden plank to travel around)

[sudden flower]

You can't grab though the railing.

[wind latch]

Guys lets be respectful and constructive here please

[random night]

Eh yeah you can. I know because i did it during my last stream where i was surprised that it worked

[forest raptor]

Maybe something changed? ive been able to grab someone through those railings before.

Its really common for someone to run up organ stairs, and jump over the railing immediately to the right.

[sudden flower]

Maybe the bunny was stupid and hug the fence, but didn't work for me.

And there isn't railing on all the way.

[random night]

If you want we can try to test it later today?

[sudden flower]

lol no.

[random night]

Hm?

[forest raptor]

But im positive ive been grabbed there before because im that guy who loves to run along the upper organ edge

If it is possible for the bun to hit a certain spot or angle, then maybe magi needs a guaranteed bench every two tiles on the upper ring

[random night]

Do you wanna test it later? xD

[forest raptor]

lol if we can get a match together later, but if I get organ later I will just ask whatever magi is in there.

[random night]

Im pretty sure it works. But i‘d be curious if there‘s gabs or little spaces where the bunny really cant be grabbed

[random night]

Fair enough. Let me know if it does or does not work.

Otherwhise ill be around in 4-isg hours

[sudden flower]

And even if, imagine we are realistic 2sec, hard i know, the bunny will just jump on the cliff with the window while the magi is taking the long way.
So the spot only rely on the hat grab anyway.

[wind latch]

We need to keep it respectful and constructive, avoid these kind of comments since it does not adds anything useful for the feedback and it can be disrespectful.

[manic owl]

thats the most cute way to say that the game needs to be adjusted extremly

[forest raptor]

I'm just pointing out that there is still multiple ways to play that section as a magician, as I already mentioned before;

The point is, that spot;

• magi can still hat grab from below / above / etc
• can still go behind and step over the railing
• can still normal grab through the railing

It could possibly benefit from an;

• extra bench to walk over one of the sections
• a break in the railing, similar to the other side of organ (with a wooden plank to travel around)

This is also on the first floor, where having the stronger loops makes the most sense as a magician can decide to focus there attention elsewhere (as especially with the new gear changes, that particular corner has a very very weak objective)

[sudden flower]

"Let them be, they are firts floor" most funny argument ever write.

I am supposed to catch them or practice shooting with the hat exactly ?

[forest raptor]

keep it respectful and constructive
⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️

I am supposed to catch them or practice shooting with the hat exactly ?

Yes, you have the choice to chase into a strong but objective-wise dead corner, go for a hat grab, or to break and focus on preventing stronger objectives, do you use up an imposter bunny cd to cut them off, etc

Organ is one of the few rooms that has distinct elevation differences that affect chases, its ok for it to have strong sections.

Just like bunnies learn how to skim-jump around the outer ring of organ, magicians learn line-ups / strategies to counter.

[random night]

I mean yeah? Bottom floor is, how i understood it, the most bunny favored floor. The higher up you get the more difficult it should be for bunnies to get away.

[forest raptor]

And for context: Here is 60s showing consistently strong run paths / climb spots that require no items, and that magi would typically need to hat-grab to reach.

As suggested above;

• if they wanted to be consistent with the left side of organ, they might add a small break in the center/possibly a plank of wood to the 3 right side railings.

But as it stands, organ has a very strong 1f / ok 2f/ and weak 3f, which feels ok.

**Personally ** I would like a few audience dummies in the pit on the benches

[sudden flower]

Bro think that's fine, magi need to use the most clunky mechanic of the game to catch a bunny, and that's fair.
(Sarcasm.)

[forest raptor]

They had made several improvements to hat grabs already, and I expect they will continue to improve on it, that's one of the points of the tests.

One of my favorite suggestions w.r.t hat grabs was having the radius expand the longer you held it, to force a time limit you could hide on top of carts before jumping down.

[raven grotto]

your video doesn't play\

[sudden flower]

Yeah but if they keep the timing like it is right now the grab is just random, since its in the design, really easy to dodge if you see it coming.

[forest raptor]

i think thats just a discord thing, a 60s clip is like 150mb, so it may take awhile.

[forest raptor]

If you ever see shadous in VC, you should watch their magi, they have a lot of line-ups / tips for doing quick grabs with better accuracy

[sudden flower]

At this point i don't see how you don't realize how non-realistic what you say is.

Like didn't the bias counter itself at some point ?

Did you play magi some game ?

[forest raptor]

Yes, and having other magis in vc to give tips / advice helped 100 fold.

As a bun its easy to learn from others since you have in-game vc, and your already a team.

[sudden flower]

I don't see how this have to do with the fact its easy to dodge and only rely on luck if you hit it on a bunny that move.

[forest raptor]

Since bun / magi mmr were the same pool, its rough to learn magi if you started with a lot of bunnies, but a lot of hat grabs is still about predicting / snap grabbing whenever they jump (e.g jump between double boxes on carts)

[sudden flower]

Like did the people in this echo chamber think they hit it on a bunny that was aware of it by pure skill ?

Cause its pretty obvious that is not the case.

[dapper prawn]

I would like to once again remind people to remain respectful towards each and be constructive.

[raven grotto]

I play magi and the hat grab does not work to grab bunnies off of ledges or god spots, it is too slow, while the magi does the animation to just pull the hat, not even grab just get it down in position, bunnies just jump off and run towards you where you can't use hat grab so you have to cancel it but as you cancel it, it takes a bit before you can normal grab and in that time frame the bunny just jumps back up to the spot

[sudden flower]

Can we just ask a simple question, if a spot only rely on the hat grab to get the bunny, is it fair ?

Like can we got the opinion of the devs on this if someone know them ?

[raven grotto]

this was discussed last play test and the devs enforced it actually

[dapper prawn]

Areas considered godspots, so areas where the Mag cannot grab a bunny, are prohibited.

[sudden flower]

Wdym ?

[raven grotto]

same with the stutter step for "silent" walking, they consider it "skill" and not an exploitation of the code

[sudden flower]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-leaving-turning-around-no-gif-13061064

[dapper prawn]

It is a common "issue" with the Unity engine. The devs have said it enriches the gameplay and adds another layer to the Magi. When discussing with the community, the vast majority of the community, wanted it kept and the devs agreed

[raven grotto]

if I remember correctly, devs considered using high jump gear or trampolines to get on unreachable spots "skill" and only considered spots exploits if the hat grab couldn't reach it

[sudden flower]

For me the ability to be silent while invis is something that is needed for his gameplay, but make it into the code, so the magi just walk slower while invis.

[dapper prawn]

Incorrect.

[raven grotto]

thing is if hat grab doesn't reach neither does imp placement, not only that but hat grab is so slow that while you pull it out a bunny jumps off and either runs away and since cancellation is slow they can get away or jump back on the spot

[raven grotto]

that's what the mod said

[dapper prawn]

Who?

[sudden flower]

Yeah that's about i am complaining in this post btw.

And those spot are on every floor btw.

[raven grotto]

I'm aware, I made SEVERAL commentaries about it last playtest, especially towards the end cause I encountered it every match along with verbal abuse as they used the spots

but the post got over run with hate from bunny mains saying I was unskilled and just bad, even a mod deleted posts that talked about the issue

[sudden flower]

Eeewww

[dapper prawn]

A mod has not said the words; skill, trampoline or high jump in relation to dev endorsement of getting on top of unreachable objects from what I can see after looking through months of their messages

[wind latch]

The point of asking a constructive and respectful feedback is not the feedback it self but the way people talk about it. Here we are not discussing to be against someone, we are discussing ideas and people will have different povs and we need to think how we can say our ideas in a constructive and respectful way.

Also, for me, i dont like that spot too. For me, i consider a god spot any place magician cant mind game and has to use hat trick or impostor to do something since those spots are not the only way bunnies can outplay magician, so in that logic that is a god spot for me.

[sudden flower]

It is for me too.

But i will do a different post about those spot later.

[mystic marten]

I wouldn't mind spots that need a hat grab if hat grabs against non-stationary bunnies weren't so hard to get. Sure if a bunny just keeps running in one direction and doesn't attempt to dodge it's just a matter of knowing the timing, but most of the time they look back and wait for the wind up to make a move

[vagrant fulcrum]

Next time add video footage so we can see the whole context of the situation.