MMR System Penalizes Solo Queue Team Players for High-Risk Sacrifices

[willow crescent]

As a dedicated player, I've encountered a recurring issue with the MMR ranking system that significantly impacts team-based strategies. During a recent match, I sacrificed myself as a decoy to attract the Hunter's attention on the ground floor while my team secured critical materials for escape. Despite enabling my teammates' successful evacuation from the 4th floor, I was eliminated and received severe MMR penalties.

This pattern repeats in critical late-game scenarios where players who:
1,Players who perform high-risk diversions (ground floor baiting)
2.Enable team resource acquisition through positional sacrifices
3,Facilitate late-game escapes by drawing enemy focus

are disproportionately punished through:
✖️ Immediate MMR deductions proportional to game loss
✖️ No compensation for critical team contributions

The current system fails to recognize:
⚠️ Team coordination value outweighs individual survival
⚠️ Positional sacrifices enable collective success
⚠️ Risk-reward imbalance in support roles

As illustrated, team-focused players often end up being pinned down by the Hunter all game, only to be executed and lose significant MMR

[eternal summit]

While I know this sounds off at first - I do think this is correct. Otherwise a bunny that just accidentally happens to get chased while others escape would get MMR for dieing, you know?

I think it is very difficult to differentiate between a bunny getting chased accidentally/intentionally while others escape.

And dieng accidentally - which equals dieing because the Magician just got someone - should not award MMR.

I blieve your suggestion would take away too many correct MMR losses for bunnys that just happen to die while stuff objectives progressed - which honestly should always be the case (someone gets chased -> the others progress obejctives is like the default gameplay in my mind at least for bunny). So this would make it so that almost all deaths end up giving MMR instead of taking it away.

Which begs the question: Then how to lose MMR as bunny? There are always objectives happening while someone is being chased/dieing. That is simply normal gameplay and deaths during normal gameplay should not reward MMR imo.

[pliant osprey]

You could offset the MMR loss by the number of bunnies that escaped or something to account for the fact that the dead one did contribute, otherwise I agree.

[eternal summit]

While I understand this suggestion, that would give MMR gains or dampened losses simply to - sry for that term - "randoms" that just happen to die while I escaped.

You know what I mean?

When I didnt coordinate or anything and just happen to escape while a random team mate dies, that random should not get MMR for me escaping.

Especially not if they weren't even intending to distract for me or something.

[pliant osprey]

Hmm, not sure I fully agree with you there. They used the magicians time, thus helping you escape. That is the OP's point I think. But I do know what you're saying, just offering an idea that is somewhat of a compromise

[eternal summit]

It is. But its difficult for an MMR-system to differentiate their intend. Did they die explicitly to give their team mates time or did they just die because they got caught off guard? And then their team mates just decided to capitalize on that.

Its difficult, Im ngl.

But I believe premades - which is already an advantageous setup - being able to call "ok Max, just go die." shouldnt give Max MMR x)

[pliant osprey]

A team of 4 escaped bunnies, that one who died likely helped more than you are giving them credit

so i dont see why you couldnt offset the loss/gain

[eternal summit]

I get the point. But also made mine. Its not for us to decide. Thats all from me for now.

[willow crescent]

The current MMR system mainly rewards players based on their direct contribution to escaping. This creates a situation where it's highly beneficial to hang back and let a teammate get chased by the Hunter while you focus on pushing objectives. Whether the team escapes or not, as long as you avoid being chased and keep progressing, you can rack up a lot of MMR. This really isn't how a cooperative 5-player team should operate.
The system should be adjusted to give significant chase points to the player being pursued by the Hunter, provide compensation points to teammates who escape because of that distraction, and slightly reduce the pure escape points. After all, your successful escape often depends on a teammate drawing the Hunter's attention, even if they were chased unintentionally – you still benefited from their situation. This might seem like it would only make player scores go up, but the idea is actually to reallocate the existing points: take a portion of the points from the current pool and award them at the end of the match to players who were chased and sacrificed but helped their teammates escape, based on how many teammates actually escaped.

[delicate kayak]

Yes, but how did the system recognize a "sacrifice" over a normal death ?
because everytime an objo is done there is surelly a chase, since if there is no chase the magi will tp instant on the notif.

[willow crescent]

I think they should increase the points for being chased and for successfully escaping a chase (they're giving out way too little right now). Also, players who die later in the match should get sacrifice points based on whenthey die and how manyteammates ultimately escape. This would prevent newbies who die early from easily getting sacrifice points, while properly compensating players who contributed more to the team effort later in the game

[delicate kayak]

Yeah but then when the game is on the 4 floor every death is a sacrifice, if we take it as you said ?

• its not dbd so i don't think there should be "reward" for chasing with the magi, since this wont help the rushing problem.

[willow crescent]

Eventually, all players will gather on the fourth floor trying to escape, but usually, only the Bunnies not targeted by the Magician can get away. The ones being chased will likely get thrown down to the first floor, left completely helpless, watching all their teammates escape.
If you didn’t contribute much in that round, you might not care too much. But if you carried the team and made a huge effort, only to end up getting eliminated and losing a lot of MMR (right now, escaping gives you about +20 MMR), that feeling absolutely sucks. It makes you wonder whether you should just play selfishly—stop worrying about whether your teammates make it out, and only focus on your own survival. And honestly, that’s not the kind of mindset a team-based game should encourage.

[delicate kayak]

I mean, its unlucky you got kill at the end but this can happen to anybody at the end.
If the game give mmr for dying at the end it wont really matter if you escape or not.

[willow crescent]

What I'm saying is, the game shouldn't just hand out sacrifice points in a simple "you died, so here's some MMR" way. It should be about how much your death actually helped the team. If everyone escapes, that shows your team was better than the Hunter. For example, if four players escape, each could contribute 2 MMR to you—that's 8 MMR total. But if only one player escapes, it means your team was outplayed. In that case, you'd only get 2 MMR, which wouldn't really impact the MMR system much. These points should come from the escapees' own MMR rewards.

And these sacrifice points should only start counting from the final exit gate phase of the match. Maybe in the last five minutes, or eight minutes, or once two players have reached the fourth floor. Also, the reward points for the Magician Hat should be reduced. In the current game environment, too many Bunnies are rushing for the hat downstairs, which often leads to the whole team being unable to escape.

[delicate kayak]

Yeah so you will get mmr for dying when the gate are open basically, cause the game can't really know if it was a sacrifice or if you get caught at the end while doing nothing the whole game.
The idea of rewarding team play is good for sure like doing save, objo, etc.
But i don't think there will be reward for "baiting" to help your team.

[willow crescent]

It's not necessarily about baiting, but in the final stage, there's always that one player—whether on purpose or by accident—who makes the first move to escape. This action often draws the Magician's attention, and they end up getting thrown down to the first floor. Meanwhile, the rest of the team can use that distraction to open the other exit gate and get away.
For the player who gets targeted first, thrown down, and put at a huge disadvantage, the experience feels really unfair. They’ll probably think, "Next time, I’ll wait for a teammate to draw attention first before I make my move—so I don’t get punished again."
That’s where a sacrifice score system could make a difference. It would encourage players to actively cooperate against the Magician, even if it means sacrificing their own escape. The idea is: "I may not make it out—I’m making a sacrifice—but I helped my teammates escape." And when they escape, you get MMR rewards in return. In the end, it’s about reinforcing teamwork and mutual support
.

[delicate kayak]

Yeah but as i said the game can't know if a decision of the player or "Oh i get caught when i want to escape, but no problem i will get mmr cause the gate are open and my mate escape."
So at the end of the day nobody lose when the gate are open.

[willow crescent]

The MMR for the sacrificed player should be paid by the survivors who escape. So, no one is really getting a free ride here. The fewer teammates that escape, the fewer sacrifice points you get — because if the team's overall skill is lower than the Hunter's, you should still lose MMR. On the other hand, when the team's overall skill is actually higher, why not reward the sacrificed player with some points? Even a highly skilled player can get caught if the Hunter is dead set on chasing them down. In those cases, slapping them with a heavy MMR penalty just doesn't seem fair
.
Just like in the screenshot I sent, I was stuck in a 20-minute stalemate with the Hunter on the first floor, and in the end, I lost 24 MMR. So now I'm really wondering—should I even keep doing this next time? My teammates were thrilled because they got away with items and points, but I put in all that effort and still got punished. The game should really reward more MMR to players who are chased and end up sacrificing themselves—these are the moments that carry the most pressure in a match
.

[delicate kayak]

I don't think the 4 other will be ok with the fact that they give their point to someone that get caught at the end of the game, even with "sacrifice" idea its basically rewarding the one that get killed at the end.

Cause all bunny can get away without a sacrifice anyway.

Its not like a bunny that bait is necessary for the other to escape, surely needed in some cases but that's all.

[willow crescent]

Strictly speaking, this isn't just about handing points over to sacrificed players. It's about ​​adjusting the entire MMR bonus system​​ to reallocate a portion of the points specifically to actions like ​​being chased, successfully escaping a chase, and making sacrifices​​
.
In top 100 solo queue matches, the Magician's defense is extremely tight. Usually, in the end, one or two Bunnies end up sacrificed and lose a significant amount of MMR. If the MMR bonus system isn't adjusted, players might just prioritize their own points next time—they could simply open the exit gate and escape early, leaving their teammates who are still on the lower floors struggling to make maybe only two attempts in the final five minutes.

[delicate kayak]

i know the mmr have problem, especially on the magi side since magi don't really lose mmr even when he lose, but rewarding bunny that get caught isn't really the way to go.
Since there is surely enough item/tools for the bunny to don't get throw on the first floor at the worst time possible.

If you want to enforce team work, you can give more point for the bunny that stun the magi when he is in chase with another bunny that come to escape through the gate.
This will encourage the bunny that still have stun item like marbles or firework to "cover" the mate that is far from the gate to help him escape.

[crimson pike]

I mean maybe there was another way to do it, another teammate who wouldn't have died who could have done said task? You take this risk knowing the penalties you may take, same as in trying to save your teammate in dbd or taking the hit for your teammate and then dying on hook, but then them escaping, sure this isn't entirely the same, but it is in the same sense that you are doing something at the benfits of your team and the unfortunate downside to yourself. If you do plays like this, expect to be "punished"

[wicked flower]

so ive only really read the top post but imo this isnt something thats really possible without rewarding throwers as well the game has no way of telling if your chase was a sacrifice to let your team progress or if it was just you running into magi to go next and any effort put into something like this would be better spent making gameplay more enjoyable

[mental frigate]

if 4/5 escape, the 1 that did not should probably be given some bonus MMR, as in almost all cases those that die are taking damage for the team, getting ropes down, and opening gates.
if the 1 person is just shit and was an anchor, that lobby will almost never escape anyway, so it won't be an issue that shit players get that bonus on a rare occasion

often dying is just about willingness to take one for the team or take risks.

bonus points should be given for someone using an oiler you found.

[delicate kayak]

"It won't be an issue that shit players get a lots of mmr."
idk how you cannot see the paradox while writing that ngl.

[mental frigate]

huge bonus should be given to whoever opens the second exit, that's also a game-changing action, very high risk, but makes it so much more realistic for more survivors.

[delicate kayak]

I think doing objo already give mmr, but i am not sure, would be a good idea, but shouldn't give positiv mmr if he die at the end.

[wicked flower]

anything that gives points gives mmr however escaping gives like 20 or something

its highly unlikely you will gain mmr without escaping unless you are doing everything for the team

[delicate kayak]

Its a good thing then ?

[wicked flower]

i think so

i think rewarding someone for dying because they 'wasted magis time' is stupid

[mental frigate]

that's half the game

[wicked flower]

not only is this going to reward people when they shouldn't be rewarded but rewarding a bunny for magi doing his job is stupid

[delicate kayak]

Same.

Sound logic tho.

[mental frigate]

magis only job is to defend objectives, getting magi away from objectives is half the bunnies job, the other half being doing objectives.

[delicate kayak]

Its not a "job" they do it anyway.

The job of the bunny is to get out.

[wicked flower]

magis job is to kill everyone if he kills everyone to time good if he ignores objectives and rips them all apart good

ive had some games with magi i could ignore objectives half the game and end with a 5k

[mental frigate]

ofcourse it should be rewarded. i think being chased gives mmr though, so it's mostly fine atm, and the most effective way to distract or wasting magis time is doing an objective.

[delicate kayak]

Like giving mmr for baiting is a bad idea, since it will give mmr for getting caugh.

[mental frigate]

the more important part is that 4/5 surviving should benefit also those that died to get those 4 people out.

[delicate kayak]

Getting chased dont give mmr.

Or maybe winning the chase if you don't get grab.

[mental frigate]

kinda like the soldiers in war generally venerating those that died, not themselves.

drag, i've blocked you, i'm not reading your passive agressive barf anymore 😄

you're the only one, quite the honor.

[delicate kayak]

Lol if you want, honnestly with this type of take i bet i wont be the only one.

[wicked flower]

i block people that dont agree with me 🤓

[delicate kayak]

Typical of people that have bad arguments.

[sullen elm]

I played some matches that the AFK bunny (entire game) had less penalty (lost minimum MMR) than the bunnies that did objectives and died, I think the challenge is to compute contribuition even after you died (at this time it was supposed to be a frozen score), I agree that giving + MMR maybe doesnt make sense, but it should at least be close to 0

[wicked flower]

did the afk bunny get hat or something?

[sullen elm]

nope, just died like others

[wicked flower]

the only way that should be possible is if bunnys got mega stomped and he only lost less because he had less mmr to begin with

[sullen elm]

yeah, they definitely had less MMR, but still odd to give your blood in a match and because of AFK bunnies you lose even more MMR than them, right

what I'm talking about is probably another issue, more related to AFK, but definitely links to this issue as well

[wicked flower]

thats because you start with a certain amount of -mmr depending on your mmr compared to magi (i think?) so the rest of the bunny team must have started at lower mmr and not done enough to make up the diffrence

[delicate kayak]

By what ?

[wicked flower]

yes that particular situation is stupid but that must have been a mega stomp

[sullen elm]

by the end time, magi didnt want to kill and focused in chasing the active bunnies

[delicate kayak]

Maybe die by the time don't make you lose much mmr ?

[wicked flower]

its possible?

[sullen elm]

no idea, but if true, also unfair

[wicked flower]

never actually testsed

[mental frigate]

nah that is lame.

don't do it

[wicked flower]

dont worry i dont want to be like you

[mental frigate]

great, be yourself

[mental frigate]

the bonus mmr is if most of the others survive, not bonus for dying.

ofcourse if anybody lost only a small amount by being afk that's bad.

[delicate kayak]

It still reward for dying at the end since the system can't know if was a sacrifice or a mistake from the bunny.

[mental frigate]

so the dead might get +2 per surviving bunny, whatever is appropriate, it does not need to be huge.

[sullen elm]

if they give a 1-min window after the death, and detect how many escapes/door opened/strikers within the chase time + after 1 minute of your death, that could increase the final bonus if the bunny still stay in the match, fall guys has a similar thing that if you disconnect earlier leaving your team, you don't get full reward

[delicate kayak]

That would make bunny follow the magi around while the other are doing objo, i think giving more mmr to bunny that actually try to help everyone escape by covering the one that are far with stun item is a better way to reward team play.

Promote sacrifice over covering your mate shouldn't be a thing.

[sullen elm]

i know people will hate me, overall I dont like the try hard from DBD, but it do like their score system, that you have 4 factors, and you must score in 4 to successfully progress in the ranking, so you can't just play without helping others, you really need to play different roles in the same game, chase shouldnt be the highest factor to score, we all agree

[mental frigate]

being chased should indeed not be the main score, but i would rate some objectives far more useful, triggering imps is something i dont think gives mmr or points?

wrong chat, deleted previous

[delicate kayak]

Score/rank system in dbd have nothing to do with mmr so its a bit off topic ngl.

[rapid valve]

if you end a game as bunny with 4 escapes and 1 death because of the nature of the game a team must have been at least somewhat decently coordinated to get the result of 4 escapes, meaning the 1 player who died contributed enough to enable those escapes

the team role should be judged as a team and not as individuals otherwise they arent being rated on the most important part of the gameplay

if you stand to gain/lose based on whether your teammates escape then youre also more encouraged to actually go over and help 1 or 2 stragglers running behind

if a group isnt able to save their last teammate or intentionally leave others to die then their skill should be rated accordingly

[sullen elm]

abstract, mmr is calculated somehow, the factors arent exposed, but they definitely are calculated... so what I mean was just set a clear orientation, so people don't feel penalty for being altruistric

[strong latch]

I’m not gonna lie, the first time I saw this post, I was annoyed at the idea of someone complaining about not getting mmr for dying early, regardless of the effort they made. It’s an objective based game, I understand what you’re saying about how you’re helping, but if you’re not doing objectives and you die early because of being a distraction, it’s hard to reward. HOWEVER, after thinking about it, one thing I think they could do is reward long chases on the bunny side by setting a multiplier on points that goes up depending on the length of the chase. So random example without any thought, 30 seconds it’s x2, 60 seconds it’s x4, etc. It wouldn’t be perfect because most chases are interrupted if the bunny leaves eyesight of the magician, but it’s a way to better reward someone who is being chased and essentially winning the chase allowing his team to get stuff done, without rewarding random bunnies that just die in normal chases without intention of distracting. One thing I would be worried about is that it would be really easy to farm points, essentially allowing bunnies with “nice” magicians to get way too much MMR in one game. I don’t know, just a thought.
(Also sorry if someone already said this, or if there were better suggestions listed. There was a lot to read and I’m lazy lmao)

[rapid valve]

they didnt specify dying early and it was more than likely very late into the game because their floor 1 chase enabled full escapes on floor 4

[mental frigate]

Rewarding dead people for how many others escaped would sometimes reward people who do not deserve it, but that will even out.
If the team survived, it's very likely that the 5th person did something useful.
if 1 person is ust a magician plaything for 20 sec total before dying, the team is unlikely to survive.

You could make it so that doing an objective that results in a chase gives bonus mmr.

and then even more if that chase is won.
because that is the perfect team mate.

or opening a door, that a magician then closes, that is a useful and long distraction, a big contributor to the team succeeding.

[pseudo bobcat]

I think the biggest problem is that the only thing that really significantly contributes to mmr is physically putting the gears in the door and turning the key or hitting the striker. If they made it more even across the board, like taking chase for a certain amount of time or giving a certain amount of charge to teammates is weighed around the same (or slightly less) it would showcase your contributions more because those things are also important for helping the team escape. Having it be a set number of seconds in chase or set number of charge to gain it would prevent people from being able to get it by accident and would encourage more teamwork and coordination rather than playing selfishly

[rapid valve]

if the game is balanced around the player count properly then a majority escape requires everyone to have been able to progress the game and there should be few cases of people who "dont deserve" mmr getting it

alternatively if not everyone is doing their part but theres still a majority escape that means the killer is doing a bad job defending so they shouldnt potentially go up in ranks just for getting a couple kills

[mental frigate]

just about every single game is the case, where 1 or several people die, even if the people who died played best.

surviving does not equal skill or usefulness at all.

it's very common for passive players to get up at the last minute and escape through already opened doors.

[rapid valve]

which is why its more important to consider the overall performance of the group and not individual escapes