#bunny communication

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

desert sandal
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one of the biggest frustrations ive felt so far is the lack of innate "communication" between players - even if i try to ask questions in chat a lot of players completely ignore it which makes it really difficult to go for teamplay and even harder to coordinate that kind of teamplay (even as a new player idk exactly what the right plays to make are). i think a big big help to make sure altruistic plays can still be made with non-communicative bunnies is having automatic pings for certain actions, for example:

  • when a bunny picks up a gear, their location is pinged and aura revealed for a few seconds
  • when a bunny puts a gear inside a door, location ping + aura
  • when a bunny is interacting with any objective, their aura is revealed (ie using a hammer, riding a zipline, winding up a door, uncaging etc)
  • while a bunny is in chase there should be a UI indicator similar to dbd, that was a hugely positive QoL change for that game when it came through

additionally i think the affected actions should come with an automatic message in chat like "Player is opening a gate", "Player has found a gear", this also gives something for other players to respond to/question to coordinate plays, if someone else finds a gear across the map you can ping a door location for them or ask them in chat if they already have somewhere to take it

sweet crag
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I just want to say that the game already has a chase indicator

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Bunnies have their profile changed (top left) by their current status; in chase, playing dead, climbing rope, on their last gear etc

desert sandal
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i see

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i didnt really understand what any of those meant

amber pelican
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I'm looking forward to see how future development can improve communication for those who don't want to talk/type or when there is a language barrier.

Ping system is good but not everyone uses it.

Information sharing is one of the biggest components for team play.

desert sandal
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proxy chat and such feels like its only really a good mechanic in a coop/pve game

desert sandal
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another thing could be showing a number under each players HUD indicating what floor theyre on

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ive asked for floors several times at critical moments to no response, and sometimes the response is just "i dont know what floor im on"

noble girder
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I like all of the above, though you realistically only need a few like you wouldn’t need an indicator of the current floor and aura of when people use a zip line cuz it’s implied.

What else I would like to see:

  • An icon next to each bunny showing what item they are currently holding in their hand.
  • A visual ping whenever a bunny is grabbed, I mean come on they scream we should be able to hear where it came from.
desert sandal
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it would be useful for when players get thrown/grabbed in general, or if they intentionally go down a floor for whatever reason but yeah it would be a bit redundant

desert sandal
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it would be super atmospheric for this game and achieves the same thing

noble girder
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Like if someone opened a door

desert sandal
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🤔

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interesting

dark cape
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absolutely, making quick queue as close to discord communication as possible should be the goal, then it becomes much easier to balance for both at the same time.

north latch
desert sandal
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"wallhacks" kind of already exist if all the players keep pinging their feet

north latch
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But they dont coz it's for signaling killer

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If we group all of your suggestions there will be an aura + ping on every bunny actions

noble girder
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The majority of the actions that advance the objectives, yeah.

north latch
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I feel that not knowing exactly what happen is a part of the game no ?

noble girder
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That makes sense to me.

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Yeah, but not knowing basic information about what your team is up to is probably not among that information.

desert sandal
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the game already tells you some things your team does with the crossmap obj bubbles so this is more in vein with giving that kind of info

north latch
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I mean

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That's life, sometimes your allies are bad or
not talkative

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It's annoying

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but weird to auto ping/aura averything

desert sandal
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and the idea is to minimise the effects of that in a way that doesnt provide an advantage that SWFs dont already have

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the exact way this is implemented is very flexible

noble girder
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Think of it this way; if we can assume that the bunny team knows X basic information, we can design the strengths of the killers with that assumption in mind.

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The less information we can assume from X, the more strength will be out of balance in one way or another.

north latch
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From my point of view, the auto-ping of any action is too "aggressive". We see the actions of others because they are noisy (door opening, hammer...)

desert sandal
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if a bunny is on call with a group it takes them no time to say "i just found a gear at x" and everyone understands that immediately

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the idea is just to elevate non groups to that level, especially in games where people cant/dont communicate OR there is a language barrier

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language barrier in particular is a very big issue in the game rn

north latch
hollow ravine
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if its really a concern, just make it so you can turn off "automatic" pings in a menu

north latch
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Why would i nerf myself ?

hollow ravine
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there could be a tooltip that says "this will toggle objective self pings, if youd like to reduce screen clutter"

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i mean, if you consider it too overwhelming or "aggressive"

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a toggle is for people who feel that way

north latch
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Aggressive for the killer

hollow ravine
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not really

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it buffs solo players to match groups, which allows you to close skill gap as killer

north latch
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Even in discord, we dont' say/forget to say everything

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With this feature it's foolproof

hollow ravine
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you cant buff killer role with inconsistencies/poor group play- if you do, you have dead by daylight lol there will be a divide between solo and swf

desert sandal
# north latch Not with pings

pinging in certain cases is punished with a voiceline the killer can hear, and sometimes you have to ping a location and explain what its supposed to mean afterwards

hollow ravine
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like why should we lose a feature because of uncoordinated group lol

noble girder
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I will jump in and say, we can absolutely design with the assumption that the "X" basic information we have is minimal, much less than what a premade squad would have.

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And some Asym games have done this.

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But, if we make that decision we have to contend that the Magician will always be balanced to be simply weak when facing teams that have that increased level of coordination.

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And as a player base you would have to simply accept that.

hollow ravine
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"i have a cog" "where?" "come here self ping" <--- this minimizes that in swf as well

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if anything it would just make it so both parties get access to the comms

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but i agree with OP, ive been soloing and ppl dont respond to my text even paired with my pings

noble girder
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I just played a game and we barely lost.

hollow ravine
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also having to drop a cog, risk noise, just to ping COG then OBJ to let ppl know is not necessary since a party wouldnt need to do it

noble girder
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I was the only person who pinged or used text chat the whole game.

north latch
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I'm really not for it. You want a foolproof game when mistakes/omissions are part of the game in my opinion.

hollow ravine
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no, i want a game that is on the same level as solo players lol

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me being forced to drop the cog is not a "mistake" its an overlooked design

north latch
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Even on discord we make mistakes/omissions. With your auto-ping, it's over

hollow ravine
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its not over, ppl will still make mistakes

north latch
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Not on thoose points

desert sandal
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mistakes should be in the decisions you make, the timing with your plays, doing something wrong in a loop, taking killer to the wrong spot, not correctly CAPITALISING on the info that the game gives you, using items poorly etc

noble girder
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There's certainly a middle ground that can be reached. We don't need permanent ally aura reading.

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But I would argue that what we currently have is on the side of "too little"

desert sandal
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like i already said the implementation of this is extremely flexible and it doesnt need to apply to every action a bunny makes

hollow ravine
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also this allows killer to get buffed, which is what we need

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esp with more bunnies

desert sandal
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even something as simple as a message in the chat "player has picked up a gear" would go a long way in ENCOURAGING more in depth communication

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no one is ever going to mistakenly forget to mention that they have a gear

hollow ravine
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i mainly play solo queue, and even then- party groups still have the most powerful 3rd party tool of all- global chat

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so this is such a small thing to have a gripe with if you already are ok with discord chat

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if discord chat exists/aka global chat exists- this is just a fraction of that

discord will still be on top

noble girder
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Here's an example of the kind of design this can give us:

Recently there was a buff that added more cogs in the first floor, because they were hard to find. But additionally, people can struggle to know which objectives were ready or where cogs went, if they had to be chased away.

If we were to add aura reading on cogs currently being held by bunnies, that extra information that we can just assume every bunny knows, would allow you to later on roll back that change.

hollow ravine
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also if global chat existed in the game (to where the killer didnt hear), id feel like the argument opposed to these pings that OP mentioned would have more standing

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its just with what we have, that isnt the case sadly

noble girder
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It was actually shocking how loud those pings are.

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I pinged the killer from halfway across the room and the killer heard me.

desert sandal
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global chat is definitely step 1 or at least one step in reducing the gap between solo and swf, but even in that case people will refuse to/cant use it (im part of the latter)

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i use text chat as much as i can but that doesnt mean my team are receptive or use it as much if at all

dark cape
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some things discord can't do is ingame pings and automatic ping-related messages. i'd like the chat do be a log of what ropes are available, i'd like to be able to scroll up to see that too.

north latch
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I find it sad to lose an aspect of the game to "help" the rabbits who clearly don't need it.
Really, I enjoy playing solo for that (even if I lose. I don't need to win to enjoy a game). Finding myself a little lost, not knowing what the others are doing, hesitating between hitting the hammer or staying hidden. When I come across another rabbit, it's a reassuring moment that is often quickly destroyed by the arrival of the killer. The global chat is already very useful, but it still has a complicated side. You don't want to/can't write all the time, and it dilutes the information. Let's not forget that the game has a horror dimension...

dark cape
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writing is good

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chat is spamme with ''charge me'' pings

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wich i wish did not happen

desert sandal
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its an "aspect of the game" that certain groups of players will never need to experience

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the game wont stop being horror because players share and learn information less conditionally which is a very intended part of the gameplay loop

north latch
noble girder
north latch
noble girder
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The horror aesthetic of multplayer asym games never go past the novelty era, if I'm being blunt. It is the nature of multiplayer games to require a deep knowledge of the system, and that knowledge is the antithesis of horror.

desert sandal
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good horror movies are still scary even after watching them multiple times and knowing every trick

noble girder
north latch
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People are afraid of spiders or others insects because they don't know them. knowledge makes things less scary

desert sandal
north latch
desert sandal
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good media still invokes the emotions its intended to when it doesnt rely on a gimmick to achieve that emotion

desert sandal
north latch
desert sandal
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a fear of flying doesnt go away when you tell someone that its actually the safest form of transportation

noble girder
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Fair enough, but I would say that analogy is less applicable in games, where your level of skill & knowledge hinges on understanding that would dissipate the fear.

north latch
noble girder
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I wouldn't expect someone to be ok with flying just because I told them it's safe.

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But I would expect them to be more comfortable with flying if they trained to be a pilot.

desert sandal
north latch
desert sandal
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global vc doesnt make being stared at by a dozen creepy mannequins any less creepy, it doesnt take away the powerless feeling of being a tiny creature in a gigantic circus etc

north latch
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No, but highlightning everything and ping everything, yes

desert sandal
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*or other built in communications

desert sandal
noble girder
desert sandal
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highlighting and pinging things your teammates do also has nothing to do with either of the things that i mentioned

noble girder
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I'll reiterate my point that it's not wrong to aim for a low level of knowledge or skill, but that we cannot do that and also account for pre-made groups when balancing our Magician. He will be doomed to be weak in comparison.

desert sandal
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the humble trapper

noble girder
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And I mean, maybe that's the correct design for that style of game.

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I think we'll agree to disagree on that @north latch it's just a matter of taste at that point.

north latch
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I have the impression yes but no animosity towards you

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🙂

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I just personally hope the game doesn't become a cacophony of ping + aura

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there are already too many in my opinion but i can understand people need this

noble girder
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I would at least like to see it attempted. I bet it wouldn't be as overwhelming as we think.

dark cape
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Player made auras should last much much longer too, like when a bunny asks for charge or oil

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that would make it soooo much easier to be a friendly bunny

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maybe for a full minute, the aura can stay.

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and possibly, instead of a chat message, the ALT-wheel images can be above their head, so you know this one needs that and this one needs that.

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a simple droplet for oil, does not need to be big.

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a key for charge.

noble girder
# dark cape Player made auras should last much much longer too, like when a bunny asks for c...

I would like a confirmation ping system. If you're familiar, in some games like Overwatch a character can say something like "Need Help" pinging a location, then another character can ping that ping to basical say "Ok" or "I'm coming"

I would like a Bunny to be able to ping something like "Need Charge" and reveal their aura for 10 seconds, then another bunny can look at that ping. If they ping it, they might say "I'll help!" and for just that bunny, they'll see the first ping for an additional 50 seconds.

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That can actually keep pings dynamic, so if you don't want the clutter of constant aura, then just don't confirm-ping.

desert sandal
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thats a good idea

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helps avoiding the issue of not knowing if someone will come to help or two people going to help at the same time

noble girder
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I might make a new thread just for that, I really like that idea.

north latch
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I'm really scared by all your proposals... You want to simplify everything, highlight, ping, have absolute knowledge of everything that happens in order to avoid all the random things. Help requests, confirmation, acknowledgment of receipt, validation of the response return... Am I really the only one who likes minimalist interfaces? Who likes not knowing if I'm going to be helped or not? Being surprised by the game / people

desert sandal
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we want the game to not be unfairly advantageous to groups in ways that the game can solve

dusky fossil
desert sandal
north latch
desert sandal
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its also only part of the game if you dont play with friends

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if you play with friends that part of the game is pretty much entirely gone

north latch
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We coordinate, yes but we don't give always informations on all our actions. This is not a competitive CS game

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Some friends are less talkative than some randoms solos

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I want to break his neck but it's fine, we laugh after all

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It's a game. We are all here to spend good time and that's not meaning wining every games

noble girder