#Magician feels a bit rough to play as

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coarse bison
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TLDR: Magician feels very painful to play, and I think the queues reflect that

  • Aesthetics, art design, music, and sound design are all fantastic. There is so much detail and polish everywhere that really makes this game feel like a complete product already

  • I'm noticing that there's generally about 12 bunny players for every 1 magician player. Seems like people are generally having more fun playing as the bunnies. That's definitely something that needs to be addressed, as heavily lopsided queues are the doom of many asym games (It was Video Horror Society's biggest core problem - the monster role wasn't fun to play, so nobody did)

  • I played 4 rounds as magician (first time playing this alpha test). I felt utterly useless in all 4 rounds. Never killed a bunny in any of the matches. I watched some videos before playing and I have a lot of asym multiplayer experience, but it's possible that I was just getting matched up with much more experienced players due to queues being lopsided. Or I'm just really, really bad at this game. I could hear bunnies running around on upper or lower floors, but had no idea where they were. It's so easy to visually lose them during chase

  • Half the time I found a bunny, either they or their teammates would shoot a rocket at me, and I'd lose track of them

  • Grabbing a bunny seems to be really difficult, too. You have to close the distance, make sure they're not jumping, and also have the camera aimed very aligned. Feels extremely unforgiving right now but I was playing on big screen mode with a controller, so maybe that's why

  • It also feels really, really hard to find someone, partly due to the maps being very large. As a result, much of the matches I played were wandering around and maybe chasing for 1/10th of the match. That's generally the part of these types of games that people enjoy the most (interacting with the other asymmetrical side)

I hope all that helps and will definitely check this back out in a few months!

dusty crystal
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I actually have been enjoying magician the more i play it. First games i got stomped hard. However i still do think the Bunnies are by far more fun to play. My 2nd game of mag I had two bunnies who kept firework and marble saving each other. Taking hits, never breaking up, all while they taunted and called me names over Proxy chat. IF that doesnt turn someone off of playing killer then I dont know what will. Also doesnt help that this game suffers another simillar problem to VHS, the bunnies feel like the power role a good chunk of time instead of the magician. I do think more killers besides the one will help alleviate some of this problem. Proper in game tutorial as well wouldnt hurt

cursive oxide
# coarse bison **TLDR:** Magician feels very painful to play, and I think the queues reflect th...

  1. I 100% agree

  2. Tbf the killer role always has longer queue times in asyms due to there only needing to be one per match, meaning that the game needs to create an entirely new lobby for you

  3. I do agree but I think this is more of a lighting issue,

  4. I haven’t really had this happen to me that much but I can understand how it’s frustrating

  5. I do think you need to keep in mind this is an alpha, meaning the hit detection system may not be there 100%

  6. I’ve had this problem as well but you can alleviate it by checking for bunnies that’re playing dead every so often

cursive oxide
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There will always be a time where you get stomped on in a multiplayer game

coarse bison
# dusty crystal I actually have been enjoying magician the more i play it. First games i got sto...

That's cool that it gets more fun as you play more! Not my cup of tea for right now but I'd like to give it another shot in a few months

Oof, that sucks about that match. I do agree that it would turn people off fast. I had something similar my first match, but thankfully no voice chat to twist the knife

Agreed - this did remind me of VHS a bit in that it felt like the bunnies have a lot of tools they can use. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but just feels like the monster here needs something more

Totally agreed - in game tutorial and some more monsters would help a lot. Quite possible I just can't play magician well but enjoy another killer better

dusty crystal
coarse bison
# cursive oxide 1. I 100% agree 2. Tbf the killer role always has longer queue times in asyms d...

  1. Really interested to see some of the new monsters and maps they come up with. Visually gorgeous in terms of art direction

  2. Sorry, I meant to say that the magician queue was instant and the bunny queues took quite a while, at least when I was on. Asym games tend to have the queue most people find more fun end up taking way longer. In TCM and especially VHS, people flocked towards survivor, and those queues were way longer. In RE resistance, there was the opposite problem where everyone wanted to play mastermind, and there weren't enough survivors. Hard to find a good balance, but the times I was on had the counter in the top left showing roughly 12 bunnies for every 1 magician

  3. True, and it may also be frame rate because my laptop isn't the greatest, but I had a really hard time tracking bunnies in chase (and often started a chase with one I could not spot for the life of me). Might just be me being blind, but I usually don't have those issues on other games

  4. Honestly, might just be the time of day I was playing

  5. Very true - I don't say any of this to insult the game or the devs or anything, just leaving feedback that in its current state, that feels quite bad when it looks like you have a bunny dead to rights, but miss them by a hair

  6. True, and I do really love that there's a play dead mechanic for the bunnies. But there's also a boatload of clutter bunnies that make it so the only time I ever found a bunny playing dead was because they were highlighted when I saw them ragdoll haha

cursive oxide
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On your last point, there needs to be a bunch of clutter bunnies so the bunnies have camouflage to hide in

valid goblet
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Yeah, I find playing magician pretty frustrating too, but the bunny experience is just as bad, honestly. The reasons are simple: as magician, you're way more likely to get matched against super-efficient premade squads. As bunny, I just play with one other buddy, so we're not a full stack. Playing as a duo, or even worse, solo queuing as a bunny, makes it insanely hard to get a win.

sharp kernel
sick pawn
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Heres a little story, that just happened just a few months ago: Texas Chainsaw Massacre also died because of heavily lopsides ques (everyone wanted to play Survivor, no one wanted to play Killer, because it felt miserable and wasnt fun.). So people asked to make Killer stronger, so its more fun and more people play Killer and que times go lower for Survivors, because there actually are people playing Killer.

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Then, it was more important to the mass of Survivor players to keep Killer weak and they all talked against it and defended mechanics and balancing decisions that made Killer so miserable to play in really tribalistic ways in order to prevent Killers being buffed, so the status quo remained the same (Survivor giga fun and strong, Killer miserable and weak to play).

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The irony was, the same people kept complaining about Survivor que times taking forever. But of course this couldn't be the case, because no one wanted to play Killer. Surely not.

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So their collective fake narrative reasoning for the long que times, was that there must be a que bug, that simply prevents all the killer players from being put into their lobbies... This way they could complain about the long que times, without buffing Killers being an option of course. Genius fake narrative actually.

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Until the death of the game it turned out, there never was such a bug and the reason why no Killer players did show up in their lobbies, was simply because there were not enough Killer players, because no one wanted to play it. There never was a que bug and the devs confirmed that multiple times.

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But buffing the Killers to change that was out of the question for Survivors obviously, so the game remained as it was, until more and more Killer players left the game, because they were not having fun with it. Que times eventually got SO long for Survivors, that they left the game too and Texas Chainsaw Massacre died. But up until the very end they kept their fake narrative of there being a que bug causing all of this up, despite the fact that the devs denied this multiple times. The End. ❤️

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TLDR: Lopsided ques + stronger and more popular side arguing and piling up to prevent buffs for the weaker side = death of any asym. How do I know that? Simply because Ive been with these previous games all the way and highly invested into them.

sharp kernel
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@sick pawni mean game is in alpha lets give them time to work through it there will also be new killer later in the year tcm had more then just queue issues

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there will always be more survivors in general as people like playing with friends i think mag will feel better once they work through all the issues right now the server are a problem even for testing

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as we all have 300 ping

sick pawn
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So what I'm trying to say is - lets all do our best to get that starting hype right before full release.

coarse bison
coarse bison
# sharp kernel wasnt the death of vhs caused by them changing the name of the game right befor...

TLDR: Name change didn't help, but the main problem was that no one wanted to play monster (and no wanted to sit in 20+ minute queues for teen)

There were a bunch of smaller fumbles like the late name change, but the biggest issue was that no one wanted to play monster. People would jokingly say they were doing community service by playing monster to keep the queues somewhat decent for teens. Teen queues went from 5 to 10 to 15 to 20+ minutes long as the game went on. Early beta players gave feedback that monster felt bad to play, and continued to say that, but the changes the devs made were too little, too late. No one wanted to play monster, and even though teen was a blast, it wasn't worth consistently sitting through 20 minute queues (with a 50/50 chance of the monster just dcing or going AFK halfway thru because it was so unfun)

You could also make the argument that toxic positivity killed that game. Anyone that offered valid, constructive criticism of the game was shouted down in the discord, or told "this game just isn't for you, but there are no real problems with it." So that effectively prevented the devs from receiving some of the feedback that they really needed

It's a shame because the monster gameplay experience was the only thing holding that game back from doing great

coarse bison