#Fan Concept Hunter - The Hagfish

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random swan
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Concept for a Hunter - The Hagfish. Inspired by the Fiji Mermaid sideshow which was bought from Japanese sailors, The Hagfish is a mermaid sideshow attraction gone wrong. Instead of a woman merged with the tail of a normal fish, the body is long and eel-like, like her namesake. Also like the hagfish, this Hunter is blind and her body secretes mucus and slime that she uses for offense instead of defense, assisting her in laying traps for unsuspecting prey.

Her head is mostly covered in long black hair that hangs down, wet and scraggly, woven with seaweed and a pair of tiny flexible horns that can move on its own. There are no eyes in the woman’s face, and the only definable feature when close enough to see her is a gigantic mouth with circular rows of gear teeth like a lamprey. Wooden arms are attached to her rotten carcass hagfish body that help her drag herself along the floor. She wears a kimono that keeps stretching over her body, forming billowing waves of torn fabric that mimic a mermaid tail towards the end. Belts, or obis, keep the kimono attached, but also gives her a segmented puppet-like appearance. The Hagfish does not have a voice, but Bunnies can hear her coming because of the sounds of her dragging her slimy body across the floor. She has also been outfitted with a macabre music box that is inserted into her spine, with the mechanisms and levers and pistons cranking and moving visibly from a distance as she moves - this is also another way to detect her if you’re afraid of running into her.

For her gameplay, The Hagfish is literally a fish out of water - she is at her weakest at the beginning of the game. She can’t see, everything black except for when she can touch things with her hands as she drags herself along the floor of the map. Perhaps she might find a Bunny on accident, but it’s highly unlikely due to how slow she is (limited mobility) and how easy it is to listen for her sounds (dragging + music box). During this time, Bunnies should focus on grabbing items and also small useless objects (added gameplay), which will be useful later.

The Hagfish’s objective during this time is to find a singular valve on the bottom floor, which the Bunnies will be notified when this happens. This will open a gigantic pipe that will start to flood the map with water. As the map starts flooding, The Hagfish will start to gain strength and will eventually no longer be able to be detected by the dragging sound, instead now only identifiable by the soft tinkling of the music box and the screech of her gears when she manages to catch a Bunny. Her strategies may include laying slime traps that will stop a Bunny’s movement and also cause panic, which The Hagfish will be able to detect once there’s enough water in the map. Note that when there’s enough water, she is only detectable when she’s moving (music box), and The Hagfish can hide among the floating/sinking debris to lie in wait for unsuspecting Bunnies swimming by. Beware when trying to sneak by The Hagfish, as she can reverse suddenly and give chase (ability) despite her long body.

The Hagfish will also be able to access various pipes around the map, which will allow her to traverse around the map, but also between floors. Only the first/base floor will have water initially in the game, so when she is on the second floor, she will once again be detectable by her dragging sounds.

For the Bunnies, note that the more items the Bunny has, the more the Bunny is weighed down in the water. Bunnies will not drown, but The Hagfish is a seasoned scavenger and knows that Bunnies with items will sink to the bottom of the map far more than an empty one, which renders the Play Dead mechanic mostly useless once you have items. Instead, Bunnies should focus on planting small useless objects in the other dead Bunnies around the map during the initial phase of the game, to trick The Hagfish.

vague citrus
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(Picture to show the Fiji Mermaid) (may be disturbing to some thats why Spoiler)

I like the idea but what if the bunnys get a debuff like rost in the gears makes then move slower also when water is touchem them (on the feet first)
Then the more water they have the less movement options they are or they are just slowed down.
And maybe after the valve/pipes are activated the water starts automaticaly go up to 1 floor, so that the bunnies need to go up 1 floor quickly as possible.
If the bunnies got to one floor than the water will "burst form the pipes" and fill the before activated floor.

random swan
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I don't think I want to mess with the gears - mostly because The Hagfish and other Hunters are also wooden and filled with gears, so it wouldn't make sense to give Bunnies rust and not give the Hunters who're made of the same thing. The Bunnies will also need that early game advantage for balance, since The Hagfish will get extremely powerful in the late game.

Rather than an automatic environmental debuff, I was thinking it would be dependent on The Hagfish. She could have a room-wide/hall-length area slime where as long as the Bunny is in that area, their speed is debuffed, but it's up to The Hagfish. And she would only get one of those that can be active at a time. However, she can have smaller slime traps of a moderate size that if the Bunny is trapped in it, it's stuck permanently until it's rescued or it struggles. You can also modify the gears in The Hagfish to customize your traps, so you could have one that induces Panic - which is helpful because The Hagfish will be able to sense movement once the water reaches a certain height, removing the blind disadvantage.

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The play style for The Hagfish would be centered around strategy, trapping, and stealth. Because The Hagfish makes no sound except for when it's moving. Placing yourself in the right area at the right time would net you pretty high rewards for high risk.

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I also would want The Hagfish to specifically have an ability where she can whip around or reverse extremely fast, which makes sneaking past The Hagfish extremely hard. If she so much detects enough movement, the player can just activate the skill and the Bunny will suddenly be face-to-face with The Hagfish, rather than swimming around her or past her tail.

random swan
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I also want to reiterate that I don't think the Bunnies should have an oxygen mechanic - they can still explore the base floor or the first floor once there's enough water, but the danger is that The Hagfish will have more mobility than the Bunnies by then since she's in her element.

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And the more weight or more items you have on you, the less mobility you'll have.

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You could also have skin designs for the Bunnies the release around the same time as The Hagfish - such as "Bunny in a Bag" where they resemble those goldfish you win at the carnival fair in those plastic baggies. Or "Sea Bunny" - where they look more like those sea slugs with little bunny ears.

vague citrus
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Good ideas, hope they get a look at this bc this is also one of the brilliant Ideas that sparkle out the rest.

What do you think about the idea of items that only spawn in the water areas? (like a high risk high rewards Situation)

random swan
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Absolutely - just pulling ideas from water attractions from a carnival?

  1. Rubber Sailor Ducks - floats on top of the water; undetectable for a set amount of time; if The Hagfish attacks you while on the duck, the duck is sacrificed and you get a three second head start.

  2. Water Cannon - a Bunny-sized water cannon that Bunnies can use and ride as a quick getaway while underwater or on top of flooded areas, would replace the unicycle mechanic

  3. Water Cannon Mini - a handheld water gun shooter that Bunnies can use to hit far away targets when necessary; highly pressurized

  4. Balloons (added value) - in water environments, this allows for much quicker ascension while underwater, but normal speed for while coming above the surface

  5. School o’Fish - wooden fish decoy items that a Bunny can release to confuse The Hagfish greatly, same size as Bunnies; when released, The Hagfish is blind and can only distinguish movement, allowing for the Bunny to flee; fish only last for a short period of time and flees in all directions.

  6. Fishing Pole - cast the reel from Point A to Point B to string up a line that you can use to traverse; or use the fishing pole to pull things towards you or vice-versa pulling you towards other things/places in a straight line

random swan
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For added consideration:

  • The Hagfish can get to different rooms quicker through the use of large pipes that run along the walls and ceiling. Bunnies can also use the pipes, but are taking the chance that they won’t get stuck in a slime trap or run into The Hagfish herself.

  • Bunnies will have limited sight while underwater. However, they can still very clearly hear the tinkling of The Hagfish, so Bunnies will need to listen very closely if they think The Hagfish is close by.

  • The key used to wind up the Bunnies will be a variant of the original key and be called Mermaid Flesh. It will look thinner and made of fish bone instead.

wise moat
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I am assuming she would move as fast as Niad from IDV

vague citrus
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Well I think it depends. In real life you can't hear better in water then out of water. 🗣️🔥

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But maybe we could see the water waves stronger near us if they are near. Visual clue instead of sound clue

random swan
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The Bunnies’ limited sight underwater will help The Hagfish as you can only hear The Hagfish as she moves, because of the music box fused with her spine.

wise moat
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Can she sense underwater movement

vague citrus
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Good question, I think maybe a flash like a generator is done in DBD? And then after only if they are near?

random swan
# wise moat Can she sense underwater movement

Yes - so any movement. Carnival Hunt's main mechanic seems to be built on Hide and Seek and playing dead, so I figured it would still work if The Hagfish can no longer sense you once you've stopped moving.

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She can still activate her Grab skill in a general direction and get lucky.

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But she literally won't be able to see you even if you're just floating/sinking right in front of her motionless.

random swan
wise moat
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Or will they float like mines

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E.G. expand like a sponge when an area is flooded

random swan
wise moat
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But be small and dry when on lanf

random swan
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If you have no items, for instance, you will be stationery if you decide to drop dead. You won't move up or down unless you start swimming.

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You will start to sink however, if you have one or more items - and the speed will be dependent on how many items you have.

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Which can be useful, but The Hagfish player should know that heavy Bunnies will sink. If a Bunny was JUST swimming closeby and suddenly the pinging stops, The Hagfish player should start searching near the bottom if she wants to snatch a Bunny potentially with a key.

wise moat
random swan
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Straight vertical drift down.

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For The Hagfish player, there will be different types of slime traps to aid The Hagfish - such as a room-wide or hallway-long slime trap that decreases mobility by a percentage, but will not completely stop the Bunnies' movement.

random swan
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However, the two types of slime traps that I think would be essential would be the large AOE slime trap that's either room-wide or hallway-long and apply a speed debuff, and then smaller slime traps that completely restrict movement that The Hagfish would be able to employ underwater or on the ground when above water.

vague citrus
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Sry for audio but can't type while walking 💀

random swan
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I was going to say give the Bunnies the ability to be undetected if they don’t move - so drifting downward will not be considered moving. Only if the Bunny is swimming or actually propelling itself forward/backwards. This is also understanding that The Hagfish is completely blind and can only sense Bunnies through movement in the water.

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The slime traps are AOE - so when I say room-wide or hallway-long, I mean the entire thing, including the surface of the water. Same for the smaller traps, they would also be AOE, just smaller.

random swan
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Note that while the larger slime trap is purely a speed debuff, the smaller slime traps would apply a negative effect - Panic.

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So the Bunny player will be forced into a period of time where will be generating a lot of movement - something similar to when a Generator pings in DBD and the Hunter can see it. The Hagfish will have some time to try and reach the Bunny player before the Panic wears off and the Bunny is free.

random swan
vague citrus
random swan
vague citrus
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you could make it that they run automaticaly forward bc panic

random swan
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No, I think I want it to be balanced that the slime trap literally holds you in place, but the area of effect is much smaller in comparison to the hallway-long or room-wide speed debuff trap.

vague citrus
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ah ye true sry.

random swan
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For variation, I figure another good ability for The Hagfish would be something that could freak out or scare The Bunnies from a distance. Because one of the negatives for The Hagfish (again, for balance) is that she is slow. She's still fairly slow and it's easy to figure out where she is by the sound of her music box. She's also blind and will have a small strike window, just like The Magician - meeting she needs to actually point where she's going to pick/grab a Bunny and pray to God the Bunny is right in front of her.

vague citrus
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Maybe we can do a scale thing where she grows with each Key eaten?

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like small and middle speed and later slow but big?

random swan
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Would that be too OP if she also had an ability where she could fake-out Bunnies by throwing out illusions?

vague citrus
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hmmm

random swan
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I kind of want to give her something called "What Lurks in the Deep" - so The Hagfish, one of her positives, is that she can sense a Bunny's general direction if they're swimming in the water. She won't be able to actually "see" or sense their precise location unless she's in the same room or hallway and has a direct line of sight on them, but she'll be able to swim right over to where she's sensing them generally.

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However, considering her speed, she can instead through out an illusion of herself in front of the Bunny to scare it into coming towards her.

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Because Bunnies already have limited sight while underwater.

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And even while on top of the water, they can't see very far down into it.

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So what The Hagfish can do instead is select whichever Bunny she wants by clicking on their icon and it'll see something dark and huge coming at the Bunny, resembling herself. If the Bunny thinks it's her, it will hopefully either play dead or swim in the opposite direction towards the REAL Hagfish.

wise moat
random swan
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The illusion cannot hurt the Bunny.

wise moat
random swan
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Yes.

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It'll look like the real thing, but it's not her.

vague citrus
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maybe there coukd be a small hint

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like

random swan
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And the objective is for the Bunny to either try to play dead, OR to swim in the opposite direction.

wise moat
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It is like if I came running at you screaming and you turned round and realised you were looking into a mirror

vague citrus
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diff sound effect?

random swan
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However, I want this to be really effective, I don't want a useless ability.

wise moat
random swan
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Exactly, thanks ninjacat.

vague citrus
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true mb

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what if you can only send a clone into the water?

random swan
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The whole point of "What Lurks in the Deep" would basically be a stalling or scare tactic ability. The Hagfish is a very slow-moving character until she can actually get one of those Keys, so to help her, she will need to have abilities that eliminate the speed advantage that Bunnies will have.

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Not to mention, again, that she's blind. She won't be like the Magician where if a Bunny accidentally moves in front of her, she'll notice it right away.

vague citrus
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💀 the fake is fast eZ GG

wise moat
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Just had an idea for the illusion that will take about an hour to write so give me a second

vague citrus
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aight 💀

random swan
vague citrus
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ya guys wanna hop on vc and discuss it easier?

random swan
wise moat
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No hint is necessary because the game relies on communicating where the hagfish is and an item to make this possible without being the target like a sonar would allow this to happen

vague citrus
wise moat
random swan
wise moat
vague citrus
random swan
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TP?

vague citrus
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teleport like magician

wise moat
vague citrus
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too fat 💀

random swan
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PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

vague citrus
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HAHA

random swan
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I mean, dawg, I was gonna say that if you play The Hagfish, the environment will have to include pipes.

wise moat
random swan
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So she would be able to move around different areas via the pipes - BUT the Bunnies can use the pipes, too.

wise moat
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Can she use pipes in the unflooded floors

random swan
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You would just have to hope that The Hagfish isn't smart enough to put slime traps in the pipes, or that she's not in there already.

vague citrus
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interresting

random swan
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She will need to find a valve to turn it on.

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She can still hunt Bunnies, but she needs that water.

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This is so that the Bunnies will have a stronger early game to balance out the strong late game home field advantage that The Hagfish will have.

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So as long as you prepped will as a Bunny, it should balance itself out.

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My biggest concern is trying to make sure the gameplay is both fun and balanced.

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Like I don't want people saying the hunter is OP or useless.

vague citrus
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Maybe if a bunny and the hagfish collide in the pipe the pipe breaks

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and nobody can use it anymore

random swan
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That's not a bad idea.

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I think that would actually have to be tested - because the whole point of allowing slime traps to be put in the pipes is so that the result will be The Hagfish being able to capture The Bunny and either kill it or take its key.

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If it gives the Bunny the power to take away The Hagfish's teleportation ability, then it might motivate The Bunnies to do that, if there's no consequences.

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I mean sure, you could sacrifice yourself to take away a pipe, but then that person just sits on the sidelines for the rest of the game after having sacrificed themselves.

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And that's a little...like that's no fun.

vague citrus
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pipes break more water EZ

random swan
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But this wouldn't necessarily be a positive for The Hagfish because it will help the Bunnies naturally get to the upper floor faster.

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If I remember the gameplay video, the objective for the Bunnies is that they get to the exit on the upper floor, right?

vague citrus
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well no bc the hagfish is faster in the water

random swan
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And if The Hagfish hasn't gotten a single key from any of the Bunnies?

vague citrus
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maybe we can make that theres a % chance of falling out in wate 💀 .
So they need to make extra time to get back

random swan
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Falling out?

vague citrus
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slipping mb

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like theres a 25% Chance of the key falloung out of the Inventory (or from body) into the water and falling into the depths

random swan
vague citrus
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well than you gotta avoid water

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ez

random swan
vague citrus
random swan
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Okay. Again, that would more than likely need to be play-tested.

wise moat
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Would bunny bodies also float?

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If they don't then you can't count one to dive down to rescue

random swan
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No - I adamantly want to make sure that buoyancy is not guaranteed.

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Because they're full of gears anyway.

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I do like the idea that the keys will float, though.

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And no alert if you lost the key.

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If your key slips out in the water, you get no warning or alert that you lost your key - if you didn't notice you lost it like two rooms ago, then you're going to have to go back.

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And just chance that The Hagfish isn't lurking there.

wise moat
random swan
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Yep, so you are gonna have to be more aware of your inventory.

wise moat
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And have to divide their focus

random swan
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YEEESSS

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And maybe she's right in front of you and you didn't notice while checking your inventory and jumpscare.

vague citrus
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eZ

wise moat
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Imagine looking at your inventory for a second then you get hit by the illusion, panic, then get grabbed from underneath

vague citrus
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💀

wise moat
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Wanted to make it more to the puppet theme but I can't draw

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Would have had a longe spear nose reaching out of sadako style hair

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On a wooden puppet face

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Also a way to get more cooperation between bunnies would be to have drainage pipes that requires 2 bunnies minimum to open and gets significantly faster the more bunnies assisting

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I would have stayed more accurate to amphyrias description if I could draw

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Also with the drainage pipes they are only temporary and the room will start to refill after 10 minutes (time may change depending on objectives activated and average times of games on full release) and refill can be activated immediately if the hagfish can remember where she found the valve

random swan
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I wanted more of the actual influence of the hagfish - which is a real thing, it’s the thing that makes buckets of slime as a defensive tactic against predators.

random swan
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I figure that more than likely Hunters will start getting different skins later on down the line - if so, "Electric Eel" or "Swamp Leech" would be good alternatives.

Electric Eel - just a color variation with glowing neon highlights

Swamp Leech - change from looking like a shipwrecked/waterlogged puppet to something that was sitting in a swamp for a decade, complete with lilypad and reed hair, green and brown coloring, and a mottled skin tone.

vague citrus
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i think we are getting something xD
#1245853661612085369 message

random swan
vague citrus
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@tame tulip Thoughts on this for a character? bunny_panic (ye ik its long :V)

worthy hearth
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This idea is sick what