Units of measurement

[hallow sky]

that's even worse, changing time as the local noon line tilts ahhh

[little shard]

and all watches and clocks have gps to show u the exact time to the microsecond

[mortal owl]

1000 reply's 🥳

[hallow sky]

and as we get closer and further from the sun, the length of a solar day changes, and the axial tilt messes it up even more

[mortal owl]

very hot topic

[hallow sky]

@little shard now write a function to generalize it to all times of day, not just noon, how will you define the time of day if the rate of movement of the sun changes throughout the year (continuously)

[little shard]

YES. Astronomical units are an unacceptable simplification

[little shard]

ew generalizations. we go case by case using infinite IFs to determine the functions

[halcyon berry]

Time is a construct 🧠

[little shard]

thank you, jeb. very insightful

[hallow sky]

time = sqrt(-1)

done

[pale dust]

time = sqrt(-1) / 0

[subtle basalt]

^0

[halcyon berry]

Pi = 3 simple

[pale dust]

wouldn't expect anything else from imperial system user

[halcyon berry]

We do use metric occasionally like for guns and drugs

[little shard]

12 gauge is top metric

[subtle basalt]

pi = e

[pale dust]

pie

[little shard]

g = 10

[subtle basalt]

c = pi * 10^8 ms^-1

[pale dust]

KKona's on copium

[fervent haven]

please tell me this thread is still going strong

This thread has got me through the day

[fervent haven]

This thread is going 1,565,456,543 miles per hour

[pale dust]

or as you would say 1,565,456,543 * 1.35 kmh

[fervent haven]

kilomiles per hour

lets just join the 2 systems, everyone wins/loses

[calm agate]

The Kerman Line for Kerbin is 70,000 meters, or 229658.79265091862 feet

[pale dust]

sure let's get kilometres from metric and per hour from imperial

[tepid quail]

I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to want a unit conversion option, especially with respect to planes, since most countries use feet, nautical miles, and knots for aviation. But maybe this is best left for a mod.

[fervent haven]

Hey get your logic out of here pard'ner..

Not allowed. This is miles per cantaloupe country here boy. Best mosey on.

🤠

[solemn perch]

I'd agree, best left to a mod

[crisp hound]

But metric is the official measurement system with the United States, Why would they teach Imperial in the first place

[dire bluff]

This is literally the lowest hanging QoL feature in all of existence. I don't think they could find something to waste their time on worse than this.

[valid vine]

I guess, 'cause Imperial is part of their lives outside of school, and school is there to prepare them for that stuff

[elfin flicker]

Didn't you learn how in 8th grade?

[elfin flicker]

It's better than imperial idk why we don't use it more

[soft atlas]

Oh man.. I'm an American, an older American at that.. While I was born and raised on the imperial system and am very comfortable with it, please DO NOT put in into this game!
Just go metric, stay metric and make Americans learn it. It'd be best for everyone. 😉

[elfin flicker]

Yeah I agree

[soft atlas]

Business still uses the imperial system. Regardless of publicly stated policy, business in this country get's it's way. Imperial is taught, metric gets a mention, kids get it in their homework for like a week, then it's shelved and forgotten..

That is, unless you work at NASA. NASA learned that lesson the hard way some time ago and are now entirely metric.

[open ferry]

The most American unit of measure is ford f150's

[slender fern]

just learn metric, as far as im aware NASA even use metric

[bronze glade]

and football fields

[crisp hound]

The United States is now the only industrialized country in the world that does not use the metric system as the dominant system of measurement. So, while a company in the U.S. may continue to use feet and yards, if it wants to sell product overseas, it most likely will have to use the metric system as well

[crisp hound]

And honestly it will save American businesses millions a year deal with international trade if they just fully switched over the metric

http://www.metricationmatters.com/docs/CostOfNonMetrication.pdf

[soft atlas]

Americans aren't that smart. We don't like change reflexively and without thought. In spite of all the rhetoric to the opposite, we're a stodgy bunch who don't like being inconvenienced, more than anything else. I think It's funny that we kicked the British King out of our country entirely, yet insist on using his measurement system regardless. On the other hand, the fact that we're the reason the imperial system remains an option, is entertainingly ironic, with a sharpened point...

I was in school when the metric system was first introduced as a requirement. The backlash amongst our parents on a national scale was off the frigging hook! The requirements were never really changed on paper, just quietly shelved. Things have chugged along ever since on that basis.

[violet spoke]

Learned about the metric system in chemisty but only when it had to do with weight and sometimes size that is all but mostof the time we used centimeters, inches, feet, miles per hour, all the good stuff

Thats what ive been thinking is a great analogy most people use english in the world but most games sypport several languages as well for the others that dont speak english instead of making them leaen it to play it although I can still play Kerbal Space Program without learning metric system

[violet spoke]

And why is this? Id like to know why to not even make it an option that has to be manually turned on

[valid vine]

Well, not all languages get covered - in fact only a relative few of the really big ones are usually available, at least in entertainment, games, film and such. So, are you really that surprized, when you see the maps covering distribution of the different units?

[hot grove]

metric is much better you can convert units very easy all is just 10s you divide/multiply everything by 10 you have speed in m/s so you can convert speeds in m/s to time it will take you to get to something where you have distance in km you can do this calculations very fast..
i understand that it may be hard to imagine but I would recomend little trick to help with distances in metric.. just measure some item that you are very familiar with which has some nice lenght in round numbers and when you need to imagine that distance just try to imagine how many of these items would you fit in there instead of feet you imagine for example tables or planks...

[cloud glacier]

awesome idea, if possible could orbital speed be displayed in football fields per second?

[dire bluff]

I am tempted to make a mod that does this and uses all the most popular American units of measurements, such as football fields, washing machines, etc.

[cunning charm]

give it time, you will understand metric

[halcyon berry]

Still want an option

[half fulcrum]

As a US based aerospace engineer, with many years of experience, the game standard should stay metric. All the companies I've worked for here in the US, use metric to design Rockets and Spacecraft. Don't forget the Mars Climate Orbiter was lost due to a NASA engineer using Imperial units when everyone else was using Metric. However, since this is a game, I can also understand having the option to switch. I mean that is what "Settings" are for. Though I think it should be a Mod not a core feature. Just my opinion.

[sour ridge]

And of course the banana is the common base unit everything is calibrated from.

[nocturne hemlock]

guys why dont you just make a mod and everyone would be happy...

[half fulcrum]

One additional thought. With Multiplayer in the future, it would be interesting to see how this would (if it would) effect the game play. If there is a group of people on a team and one of them is using Imperial and the rest Metric, would chaos ensue (like the Mars Climate Orbiter)? Or would this just be a user interface display option. Makes one think a bit.

[nocturne hemlock]

the most realistic implementation would be as a display option, because in the code its already calculating all the things in metric (thats just how scientific formulas work), so anything other than a display option wouldnt make any sense

[crisp hound]

Close an engineer at Lockheed Martin was using Imperial well NASA It while using metric which caused the accident

[cloud glacier]

please do so

i'm sure the americans would be happy

just make sure to not include either feet or miles

after all, football fields are just so much easier to visualize

[half fulcrum]

Correct. I didn't want to call out LM directly.

Though its not like they ever dropped a satellite or anything.....🙃

[halcyon berry]

Unless they were to add pre programming flights to the game this will never be an issue since you fly the ship the whole time

[storm compass]

Guys, not including USC Units is marginalizing the american population, its xenophobic...

[turbid zenith]

you guys are dicks, let him have whatever units he wants

[wise timber]

In b4 this man realizes that the US secretly uses metric lmao. We just convert everything. Seriously though NASA solely uses the metric system. It's easier to understand anyhow. The imperial system literally makes no logical sense.

[wise timber]

Then he can make or get a mod for it. Realistically it makes no sense. No space agency uses imperial units and for good reason lol.

[crisp hound]

A little late for the inb4 bro

[turbid zenith]

im not using the imperial units but doesn't mean I don't think he should play in those that make sense to him

[wise timber]

Get a mod then. Otherwise learn. I mean it's not really that hard. Google 900 m/s to MPH and then over time like F to C you just get a natural feeling of what is what.

[turbid zenith]

what a nonce

[wise timber]

what a dunce 👆. It might be as easy and going in and changing values. It might make the devs to have to re convert on the fly. We have no idea how the game works under the hood. It might not be as easy as "flipping a switch".

[storm compass]

All these metrites when they put on their black botos and walk in lock step to arrest and kill the poor american USC enjoyers.

If I want to measure thrust in pounds and mass in slugs its my god given right.

[turbid zenith]

I had a little Google, your bro seems to disagree with you. Turns out the APG took input in Imperial units, and the Capcom communicated Imperial to the crew. I checked the transcript of comms for Apollo 11 and turns out 'feet' is mentioned 406 times. Metres? 23.

The APG worked using SI internally. I guess you'd refer to Niel and Buzz as dunces but at the end of the day the best units are the ones you're most comfortable with.

[storm compass]

tfw u realize their slide rules had USC conversion tables.

convert BTU to Ft*Lbs

[turbid zenith]

wouldn't it be ft^2 lb s^-2?

[wise timber]

imagine being so sensitive you think having metric means they're xenophobic XDD i can't im laughing so hard I almost fell out of my chair. You can't be serious. Thinnest skin gen lmao

[halcyon berry]

You just sound like a jerk not gunna lie….

[storm compass]

This man coping so hard he didnt see the meme.

Metrite moment

Ya know what. KSP2 is in C, I know C, I WILL MAKE A MOD TO DISPLAY VALUES IN USC WITH BLACKJACK AND HOOKERS

[turbid zenith]

It was more the fact you struggled to understand why someone wants to use a particular localisation

[wise timber]

Oh no my toaster is named in German. It must hate me.

[turbid zenith]

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/AS11_PAO.PDF

If anyone's interested

[storm compass]

He boutta flip when he realizes the best toaster known to man was designed using imperial units.

[turbid zenith]

Is that the slow rising one?

[storm compass]

Its automatic yeah

[turbid zenith]

sick

[wise timber]

Best "anything" is subjective

[storm compass]

I ahve one, works wonders.

[median aurora]

Nothing is worse than the nms solve for this.
"It will cost this many units to fly this many units at a speed of this many units using this many units of fuel."

[halcyon berry]

Now you understand why ppl want to choose units

Glad we had this talk

[wise timber]

you do know how consumerism works right? You can like that toaster and I can hate it. literally your opinion

[turbid zenith]

haha absolutely destroyed him jeb

[storm compass]

He has prooven unenlightened, he hasnt experienced the graces of the Sunbeam™️ Radiant-Control Toaster

[amber plaza]

easy solution is to make up new units (kiloketers and kilokrams, anyone?) /s

[turbid zenith]

Guys I think we upset artemis

[wise timber]

Bro why are you so mad lol 😂

[storm compass]

Lol, kerbal units would trigger so many people, have the conversion system end up in base 8 units.

[halcyon berry]

Who said we were. We’re not the one clown reacting like a Child throwing a tantrum

[turbid zenith]

I think they should add a feature that changes the units irreversably to ~~metric ~~ imperial for artemis' client only, based on his steam id

[storm compass]

i mean, thats how it is rn

[wise timber]

If it didn't bother you, you wouldn't address it. 😂

[halcyon berry]

I’m just bored on lunch looking for entertainment tbh

[turbid zenith]

based jeb

[storm compass]

I like using both systems, but being this mad at the thought of including USC/Imperial units must mean you cant cope with any conversion that issnt a factor of 10.

[turbid zenith]

I think saying other people can't have what they want because you don't like it is a sign of deeper problems

[halcyon berry]

Yeah. Tbh. Never saw the point raging at how other ppl play the game xD

[storm compass]

divides weight in lbs by 32.2 to gain mass in slugs then multiplies by a gee factor to get weight in pounds on mun

[halcyon berry]

I don’t yell at ppl for abandoning Kerbal s just because I refuse to do it lol

[wise timber]

Because this is a waste of the games feedback tbh. The game has way more pressing issues than "my units aren't to my liking".

[turbid zenith]

we've had a few different arguments from you now mate

[storm compass]

ONLY EUROPEANS ARE ALLOWED TO LEARN ABOUT SPACE TRAVEL BECAUSE THEY USE FRENCH MEASUREMENTS.

[turbid zenith]

I'm starting to think you don't believe them and you're clutching at straws

[halcyon berry]

Of all the fixes this is the least labor and resource intensive and also nobody is demanding it right away lol

[crisp hound]

Artemis right now

[halcyon berry]

I’m saving that xD

[wise timber]

if it takes the least amount and it doesnt impact performance/fix bugs. It's not something we need in Q1 of the game

[wise timber]

it can come later like lol. There are way more pressing issue

[halcyon berry]

Did you miss the second half of my statement lol

[halcyon berry]

Literally said that lol

[storm compass]

Artemis stomping on people trying to learn space physics.

[wise timber]

Bro why are you crying lol? 😂

[turbid zenith]

oh no, you got me

[halcyon berry]

Laughing to hard sorry

[wise timber]

Well stay mad. The units aren't on their list so unless that changes. Damn guess you'll need to learn metric.

[halcyon berry]

Lol who said I was mad xD

Your arguments are starting to sound like those last words bratty kids throw in as the teacher drags them from the playground

[crisp hound]

I am against adding imperial to the game

But no where did anyone suggest this high priority, you can give feedback and suggestions for the future of the game without being priority number 1

[storm compass]

Last time metrites tried to land on the moon, they crashed. Just saying...

[crisp hound]

All moon landing was done in metric

Designed in metric, on board computer calculated

Only displayed for the astronaut in imperial

[halcyon berry]

Which is exactly how it would work in ksp lol. In game code is metrical

[storm compass]

Cause true chads only use imperial 😎

[turbid zenith]

tbf i live in the uk so i get a bit of both. I find metric easier to work with but for subjective things imperial is handy. I would never do maths in imperial

but unlike artemis im not autistic enough to fail to understand everyone doesn't feel the same lol

[obsidian elm]

Nah how about we start weighing things in stones and measure distance in nautical miles.

[spare warren]

OH NO this is still going lmaooo

[storm compass]

Ima say it, USC>Imperial, stones are dumb. Arduvois Pounds and Slugs are the way. BUT IF THE BRITS WANT TO USE STONES IN KSP2 GOD SPEED MEN

[turbid zenith]

EXACTLY

[crisp hound]

The guys who built the rocket are the bigger chads then astronauts

[halcyon berry]

No gifs in this discord sucks lol

[storm compass]

Maybe, but I bet when their mothers made cake for the occasion... They used cups and not liters

[crisp hound]

Maybe Buzz Aldrin is bigger Chad

But he is special

[valid vine]

🎶 You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes, well, you might find
You get...
... Metric

[halcyon berry]

Never will if you don’t ask my guy

[elfin flicker]

Metric is still best for anything in space

[halcyon berry]

That’s subjective

[elfin flicker]

Is it though?

[halcyon berry]

By definition of best. Yes

[valid vine]

But arguably, the modern meter is calculated directly from the speed of light - or our closest current measurement.

[halcyon berry]

It’s still subjective on if it’s the best

[elfin flicker]

Well I still doubt the devs will add an option for imperial

[leaden nest]

I dunno, sounds like its a good opportunity to allow this fiasco to happen again: :p
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter

[halcyon berry]

Unless pre programming is introduced this is a non issue

[leaden nest]

Modders will expect units to be metric 😄

[valid vine]

Fun fact: a meter is as far as you can lift 1 gram in earth gravity, if you have exactly 1 joule of energy to spend. Metric is definitely something.

[halcyon berry]

Moders don’t care about how the units are displayed lol

[leaden nest]

Is a joke

[wild tusk]

Forgive me for stirring the pot here a bit, but have you all ever looked into "metric time"?

[crisp hound]

Let's not get into that

That's not really metric, just uses metric prefixes

[calm agate]

@wise timber

[patent perch]

First point of order, use and learn metric, it is the standard for a reason.

Secondly as a game with a large education component try and learn from it while having fun. I assure you you will have more fun with the simpler conversions that happen in Metric over Imperial.

Lastly the speeds and distances we are talking about are so dramatically different from anything you would ever compare to in your normal life. Units could be in pirate-ninja's and it would be just as comparable to a value you might see in your daily life.

I do feel like this comment was initially made just to stir a pot and see the fun and I am happy to engage in that.

[balmy kraken]

Yep, mega-miles is not really a thing

[tepid quail]

kilofeet

[arctic mantle]

pirate-ninjas are an actual unit of measurement https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/fops7r/til_nasa_uses_the_unit_of_millipirateninjas/

[half fulcrum]

OK, so since we are talking about a game measured across Interplanetary and Intergalactic points (except while at or on celestial body), distances should be in AUs (astronomical units) and speeds in light-sec, light-min to light-years for interstellar travel. Parsecs as well. And if we don't want to be exclusionary of any group, values should not only be in floating point values, but displayed in HEX (0hFF) or Binary (0101).

[elfin flicker]

My rocket is going 358521 krakenmeters a second

[subtle basalt]

the modern mile is calculated from the speed of light because imperial is defined from metric, also the metre isnt defined from our closest measurement of the speed of light, its literally the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum in 1/299792458 of a second

[median star]

my airspeed is knots metric or imperial

[violet spoke]

Im honestly proud of this post for how much imperial vs metric arguements I have caused and amazing made up measurements

[bright iris]

I'd like to see knots/nm/feet as an option, since aviation uses those units.

That said, 1 m/s is around 1.94 knots, so cutting your indicated speed in half gives you a good approximation.

[limber spruce]

We should not make fun of people but ad an American, this makes me sad.

How do you express m/s of deltaV in imperial?

[bright iris]

ft/s would be the equivalent unit

[elfin flicker]

Or maybe yards per second

[bright iris]

https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap11fj/21day6-tei.html -- looks like Apollo communications used fps, not yps.

[elfin flicker]

Ok

[bright iris]

fps is also used for ascent/descent rates in aviation, I think.

But aviation doesn't concern itself with dV so much as pounds of fuel remaining.

[valid vine]

☝️ Here's a good point. So, if they make that option for changing units, should it also change the units of dV?
Either way, it's gonna be confusing AF.

[dense current]

The only place where I think US units should be an optional inclusion is aircraft speeds - knots is a very widely used and understood standard for presenting them.

[dapper sail]

fun fact, US units are not imperial! they are both defined in law using a conversion from metric, and differ from true imperial for various reasons depending on the measurement

the US gallon is about 20% smaller than the imperial gallon, for example.

[dense current]

@dapper sail i might write up a handy little card of conversion estimation rates at some point; i've been playing this game for many years and m/s is still hard to follow for aircraft when i'm not thinking about it too hard

[dapper sail]

I just had the bright idea of forgetting everything I grew up with and it's been great. never had issues.

what's fast? 300 is fast.

nice, easy.

[dense current]

it's just fried into my brain from playing combat flight simulators essentially since birth (really around 5, i think, my dad introduced me to one on DOS and just sort of stuck with those)

[valid vine]

You're falling 20 mph, and have about 200 m/s dV. Will you make it?

[dapper sail]

(also bobson dugnutt has to be one of the best japanese attempts at simulating baseball player naming conventions.)

[dense current]

certainly. but what about falling at 200mph, and assuming a 'suicide' burn? factoring gravity i can't quite work that out (also assuming reasonable twrs)

[valid vine]

Sleve McDichael is a strong name as well 👌

[dapper sail]

but can it beat... mike truk

[crisp hound]

By law, it's actually defined as metric preferred

[dense current]

if one ever wants to start a pedantic argument about metric units, take note that the base unit for mass is 'kilogram' and then push the argument that a 'gram' should actually be called a 'millikilogram'

[dapper sail]

which is why I can look at this can, and see that it's a 355ml can, with 38mg of caffeine and everything else in grams of dissolved solids

the base unit thing is odd, but it's a whole lot better than using a system dubiously based on the length of a specific grain during the medieval cold period.

[dense current]

@dapper sail most definitely

[crisp hound]

There's actually a very funny story in history about that

Kilogram was always going to be the standard unit of measurement but it wasn't always called the kilogram

The kilogram used to be called Grave and what's the standard unit but how to similar sounding a term for French nobility so they renamed because of public unrest

[dapper sail]

f'kn barleycorn based measurement XD

[crisp hound]

Because back when they started implementing metric they were beheading nobility so people weren't comfortable calling it grave

So it was renamed a kilogram

[dapper sail]

https://youtu.be/r7x-RGfd0Yk?t=2

I just like metric because you can redefine it so long as you have water.

I forget how. but you can.

[valid vine]

This makes no sense. I mean; gram is the unit and Kilo is the prefix (thousand), like kilometre, so why should it ever be "millikilogram", when miligrams is already 0.01 grams?

[crisp hound]

You can calibrate a thermometer using water

At freezing at zero

That boiling it's 100

[dense current]

@valid vine it's mostly just a silly point, not a serious argument but stuff about 'Grave' makes sense as to why it's not actually valid

[crisp hound]

But the standard unit was the kilogram when metric first started except that it wasn't called a kilogram, It was called a grave

[dapper sail]

and after that I'm pretty sure you can work out volume, density and weight from its expansion as well, something like that.

but no matter, even if you do end up making totally new measurements, if they're based on water, they can simply be rescaled to match metric.

[valid vine]

Kilogram (1000 grams) Is still the unit for relating mass to volume in case of water. It's still the standard.

[dense current]

@valid vine the basis of the argument being that the base unit should be the thing that is multiplied/divided (as it is for the other base units)

[crisp hound]

Yes, but has a prefix now, when it was a grave it didn't

[valid vine]

Yeah, there is some discrepancy there.

[dense current]

definitely not arguing it as though i think it's a valid point, just always thought it was weird

[crisp hound]

It's one of those oddities in histories because the name sounded similar to another word, kilogram is the one that stands out of all the standard units to be the only one with a prefix

[valid vine]

Yah, but still; it's the relationships that make the SI-Units so useful.

[urban fulcrum]

I am… slightly questioning your status as a KSP player

[upbeat timber]

https://everydayastronaut.com/mars-climate-orbiter/

[violet spoke]

My status is over the two games I have probably a combined playtime of 10 hours

[tender rivet]

1 m/s is approximately 2 mph

[dire bluff]

Or 1 washing machine per second.

[tender rivet]

Ya obv

Or 6013 furlong per fortnight

[median star]

loving the jokes lol. But seriously, if a game uses a certain measurement standard, you get used to using it for that game. If they called it kerbalightspeed/per second, you would adjust....

[pliant sinew]

Use the F12 button it helps

[tender rivet]

What does that do

[dusk copper]

honestly, at these scales, it doesn't matter which unit of measure you use. they're still going to be hard for you to process in your brain. just drop the unit of measure and look at the value

[rapid laurel]

A quick guide to converting KSP metric measurements:

• A length of 1 m is ~9.8 hands.
• An acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2 is ~1750 chains per minute per minute
• An ISP of 15s is ~1 NYM (Ney York minute). ~2 NYM if your rocket is yellow and ~2.718 if your rocket is red
• A velocity of 1m/s is equivalent to ~6000 furlongs per fortnight
• One metric ton of propellent has a mass of just under 69 slugs or ~24.4 firkins
• A TWR of one is still one. Yay!
• A temperature of 100 °C is ~670 °R and 0 °C is ~490 °R
• A volume of 1m^3 is ~0.666 kilomagnums
• A pressure of 1 Pa is ~6 people per acre
• A delta-v of 1 m/s is just under 2 knots

[calm agate]

No way 0 centigrade is 490 centigrade

[rapid laurel]

oops lol, that should be an R

[agile latch]

I play DCS often and got planes that use nautical mile and metric systems. Got comfortable with both. In KSP tho it's usually the time to target that I mostly care about.

[desert glacier]

Nasa learned the hard way (millions of dollars wasted) on the mars climate orbiter mission that using imperial and metric on the same spacecraft was a bad Idea. Just having two components talking in two different measurement systems set it on a collision course. Metric is the perfect way to display rocket science anyways and its what nasa uses now. With the scale It might as well be gibberish for either so learn metric. I'm American btw, metric is superior. The meter is a much better way of measuring than the width of 3 barley grains end to end or the foot size or bust of Henry VIII

[crisp hound]

Combined 10hrs is almost nothing

I have over 40hr in KSP 2 alone

[violet spoke]

I know its nothing thats why im gonna get my hours up

[full blaze]

I have like 2000 hours in ksp1 💀 atleast a fourth of them though we’re afk though probably

[median aurora]

Light-seconds, light-hours, etc measure distance, not speed.

[fleet iron]

a football fields measurement would be really good for accessibility to a wide audience

[tepid quail]

American or real football?

[crisp hound]

Real football as in Canadian football or European football

Because the Canadian version came first and Americans copied it, the Canadian version has longer fields

[tepid quail]

idk lol i'm American, I just find it funny to tick off other Americans by saying that

[crisp hound]

The Canadian version of the super bowl, The Grey Cup has been going on since 1909

Pre dates the super bowl by almost 60 years

[dire bluff]

*Grey

[crisp hound]

Hush now

[crisp hound]

I type with swipe

[fleet iron]

a football field

[agile latch]

Measures time too

[median aurora]

Lol, ...no. It just measures distance.

[median star]

But if something is 12 light seconds away so (12sec*speed of light) don't you have to count 12 seconds? <grin>

[crisp hound]

It's a measure how far light would travel given that time

It's impossible to measure time in light years or light seconds

[urban fulcrum]

Light seconds/c

Which just gives you seconds

[crisp hound]

Assuming you're traveling at light speed?

And of course if you have your avg speed and your distance you can calculate the time

That's not measuring your time in light seconds,

[silent solar]

Agreed! I just posted the same thing about having a unit of measure for Miles per Hour and Kilometers per hour

[crisp hound]

That's absolutely crazy talk

[agile latch]

Yeah you are right, seeing a star 10 ly away would mean we are seeing something from 10 years ago. It only works because the image moves at light speed. Ended up conflating measuring time with the age of a signal, so what I said isn't accurate.

[subtle basalt]

Guys what if the unit of measurement changes based on which biome you are in I'm sure that would appease everyone

[fleet iron]

i'd rather have miles per hour for rovers and stuff tbh

20m/s doesn't feel as fast as 45mph

[calm agate]

Thats 72 kmh

[bitter rivet]

Trees per hour, sand grains per second, Fish per day and ice cubes per minute?

We need that yeah.

[tender rivet]

Is a tree per hour the length of a tree per hour or the length a tree grows per hour

[bitter rivet]

As every tree is different with both of these we might as well call it the imperial 2.0 update ngl

Because the foot of people would be different too

[calm agate]

The growth of trees is measured like cm/year

[cedar lagoon]

I’d love to see feet for altitude and knots for speed. Only because that’s the standard in aviation and I’m so used to it that. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[median aurora]

No counting needed. If You know that my ship is 500 light-seconds away from yours, you immediately know that I am that distance away. Counting to 500 would not give you more information about how far I am from you.

[median aurora]

Because of relativity your experience of time changes depending on your relative speed. If you are moving from point a to point b, as you approach the speed of light your experience of time passing approaches instantaneously arriving at point b. Observers who were stationary relative to point b would have a different time reference and would experience much more time passing than you.

[crisp hound]

Irrelevant

You can travel a light years regardless at any speed given enough time

By the same logic a meter could be in unit of time

[median aurora]

I was supporting your comment, not refuting.

Sorry for the ping

[leaden sundial]

we were taught metric in my schools in the US, but personally I would like to see fuel in volume units like liters and kiloliters, I understand why they used mass but the option for both would be great, hopefully we get for customizability in the UI that allows us to switch units to whatever anyone wants

[timid niche]

Metrics not based on the earths circumference. its based on the speed of light in a complete vacuum. The definition of a meter was changed in 1983 to be the distance light travels in 1/299792458th of a second in vacuum

[subtle basalt]

I think what they were getting at is the metre was originally based on the earth's circumference

[spare warren]

yeah 👍

i was joking though to be clear, i dont actually think a ksp-centric measurement is a good idea

[timid niche]

for those saying it should be implemented as it doesn't hurt to add more QoL improvements. It also doesn't hurt to learn Metric, which is a QoL improvement for real life. Also "Learn" is kind of misleading when it comes to metric, as it's so simple and intuitive that it really doesn't take any work to learn it. All you really gotta learn is a few prefixes

[fervent haven]

You use kilometers then.... lol

[timid niche]

Oh I definitely got the joke Just didn't want to miss the opportunity to share a fun fact that a lot of people don't know

[fleet iron]

mph is better

if they added both as a conversion that would be nice

[fervent haven]

how is it better

if it was better NASA would use it

and the rest of the entire world

[median star]

I'm American too, but I've lived outside where the Imperial measurements are basically unknown...I can math metric to imperial in my head in a heartbeat if I absolutely have to translate, but why bother. Use what's in front of you and local.

[crisp hound]

I honestly find it hilarious. The Americans literally rebelled against being Imperial forces to form their own country and then keep their crappy measuring system in refused to change to the French measuring system (side that provided them weapons and equipment) and cling to the crappy measuring system that the British long abandoned

[fleet iron]

wym

it's the better system

[fleet iron]

uk uses half imperial still wym

uk is confused lol

can't pick a side

[amber plaza]

doesn't canada use imperial and metric, but seemingly always in the worse ways? Body temperature in celsius despite fahrenheit's "100 is a fever" rule, food temperatures in fahrenheit when celsius is better with water, and some other examples I'm forgetting

anyway, is this the most active forum thread on this server?

[calm agate]

Best pro-imperial argument so far

[urban fulcrum]

Tbh Imperial and Metric nowadays aren’t really much different, other than Imperial have weird conversion factors

Everything is defined with universal constants now anyways

[crisp hound]

No

Imperial is defined by metric by law

And metric is defined by universal constants

[urban fulcrum]

Sorry, that was what I was meant to say, Imperial is defined by metric, and metric is defined by universal constants, meaning that Imperial is basically also defined by universal constants

by the way, not trying to defend metric, the conversion factors are an absolute pain to work with

[tender rivet]

I’m American but one of the only things that is better in imperial than metric is that the foot is great at measuring human sized things while the meter is not as good. But imperial is like 5 different systems being mushed together so that’s why 1 mile is 5280 feet, that would being like complaining that 1 foot is 2.54 centimeters and acting like someone made it that way

[meager stratus]

Planes use knots too!

I like building fighter jets and playing DCS, so kts/ft wouldn't be half bad.
While I don't think unit conversions to be terribly important for KSP2, a good way to implement it would be to set a "Display Unit" for each vessel type (and perhaps flight condition atmospheric/orbital), that way rovers could display one system, planes another, and spacecraft another, all configurable to a player's wish

For example, here's the units UI made for a mod to the game Arma 3, which (without the mod) displays in metric m, km/s, etc.

[fleet iron]

its such an easy add to the game too

[fervent haven]

lol 0 degrees is when water freezes, you people are mad I swear to god

Canada used Metric also, not Imperial, I did not learn Imperial in School, we use Imperial for measuring monitors, height, and when cutting a small piece of wood, everything else is metric. "Seemingly worse ways" lmao, this discourse is maddening.

Yeah because a fever is more important than water freezing and water boiling you absolute luddites

jsut inventing ways in your heads to make metric and canada sound worse, lmao

this chat is now on mute, have at it, absolute luddite behavior

[calm agate]

[sweet wolf]

Space should use Metric and I think that the devs could spend that time doing other WAY MORE relevant stuff. Mod it in, idc, but I don't think Imperial should be a thing to add.

[amber plaza]

@fervent haven I far prefer metric and don't like imperial at all, I was just reminded of something I heard a while back that is ambiguously truthful. Also, the whole fever thing is like the only good use of Fahrenheit, and even then it's niche.

Anyway, this whole thread is surprisingly — for a lack of better words — toxic, and it's probably for the best that you mute it lmao

[fleet iron]

dude why are you getting so heated over inches and feet LOL chill out bro

[rapid laurel]

Would you rather measure your periapsis in kilomiles or megafeet?

One important thing that y'all are missing: maybe imperial is more intuitive for human size things or comfy human temperatures. Space isn't exactly human sized though, everything is so big and so fast that it's next to impossible to get an intuitive grasp on what all the measurements mean. If you aren't going to have intuitive dimensions with way you might as well use the system that has better conversions and easier math

Like seriously, who wants to measure the mass of their propellant in slugs?

[fleet iron]

it'd be nice to have the option in the settings menu

[rapid laurel]

Mod it

[subtle basalt]

cant believe "celsius is good for cooking because its based on water" and "celsius is bad for people" (despite them being like 2 thirds water) are both farenheit arguments lmao

[crisp hound]

Human height in cm isn't that hard to hang of

[halcyon berry]

I have no idea what the average human height is in cm….

[rapid laurel]

175 or so

Kerbals are 75cm

[subtle basalt]

thats only cause you dont use imperial, i have no clue how tall "6ft" is

[crisp hound]

Adults start at 150cm and 200cm getting really tall basketball player range

Most people fit in that 50cm range

[meager stratus]

Knots, nautical miles, and feet are often used in nautical and aeronautical applications. KSP has a large emphasis on aircraft, and the boat launch was added due to demand for a sea launch.
While it's not the biggest issue if its not natively supported, it's not unreasonable to consider for this context.
As a side note, I'm vaguely aware of nautical miles basis in the Earth-Centered-Earth-Fixed coordinate system, so I'm not sure how compatible that is with Kerbin.

[fallow crest]

the way nautical miles work is based on degrees of longitude and latitude, a nautical mile is 1/60th of a degree of latitude or longtitude so on Kerbin, im using 600000m as the radius assuming ksp1 and ksp2 kerbin radius is the same therefore 1 Nautical Mile on kerbin at sea level is approximately 174.5m

[crisp hound]

Knots and nautical miles are still used because of the relation to the longitude and latitude of the earth, makes it easier when looking at map charts

But kerbin 1/10 scale to the knot would not have any real use

And knot close half m/a anyways, if you are used to the frame of reference of knots m/s isn't a hard transition

[restive venture]

You guys are still talking about this?

[halcyon berry]

Probably will keep talking about it until we have the option

[mortal owl]

this argument is infinite... love it... this is almost a lounge channel

[fallow crest]

its actual use is due to it being meridian arc length, for example, if you have a plane 10km above sea level and a boat on sea level, if both move north, 100 nautical miles, they will still be directly on top of each other despite the plane having travelled a longer distance due to the earth being round.

[storm compass]

24hr? Or Base 10?

[rapid laurel]

That would mean that KEO would technically have a velocity of zero knots, right?

[drowsy salmon]

is this seriously still active?

[crisp hound]

It's going to be active until it reaches maximum post in a discord form

[tender rivet]

Good morning, how’s the weather in the forum

[crisp hound]

It's negative two Celsius where I live

[mortal owl]

here is 19 Celsius or 66.2 Fahrenheit or 292.15 kelvin

[rapid laurel]

About 285K here

[calm agate]

19? Celcius 66.2? Fahrenheit

[median aurora]

My area's "Fair in Height" scale is at about 80 decrees.

But I'm less than 2m tall so I don't think the heights are fair at all.

[dense current]

Not to be confused with "The 98.6 theses"

[idle estuary]

Imperial units are stupid to use with space, metric is simply "space starts at 100km" metric is a much easier to use system with much more scalability because it is by 10's

with imperial, space starts and whatever, whover, abcdefg feet

[crisp hound]

@idle estuary cat gang?

[mortal owl]

So I leave this lounge and go on a walkabout in other channels and it looks there is a capybara fever going on... so we can kiss cats/s speed unit goodbye surely we will have to deal with capybaras/s at some point down the production line... but I'm fine with it, I'm FINE.
Its crazy out there even kerbals are slowly morphing into capybaras and people are screaming "capybaras space program 2", its the end of days... my grandma warn me about this day

[dreamy flax]

Idk I'm still advocating bananas/s

[calm agate]

🍎 /s

[fervent haven]

I love how people are now talking about Knots, nautical miles, and meridian arc length here now, we are truly exhausting every possible aspect of this conversation. Truly amazing.

[median aurora]

Yea. Before this conversation I hadn't considered how especially useless nautical miles and knots would be in ksp because kerbin has a smaller circumference than earth.

[halcyon berry]

What about slugs?

[median aurora]

No one would be safe

[halcyon berry]

No that’s snails

[median aurora]

Slugs are just snails who left their flair at home.

[mortal owl]

ksp snails are fast https://media.giphy.com/media/XUtrlLkMI1BxS/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[upbeat geode]

I thought you meant Ron Bennington, who said conserving like “You know how fast 80 kilometers per hour is? It’s 80 kilometers per hour.”

Americans will do anything to avoid using the metric system.

[halcyon berry]

Cus metric sucks duh

[upbeat geode]

Players can learn orbital mechanics playing KSP, but not m/s?

[lean drum]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[calm agate]

Bruh

[vital aurora]

Don't say Americans because some prefer it

[fathom ermine]

i think kerbals would use "head" or "hd" instead of "feet" or "ft" because of their large heads. they also seem way to disorganized to use a metric system, thus, to improve immersion, i suggest the following unit system

1 head (h): length: the height of a kerbal's head (they are all exactly the same for some reason)

1 VAB (v): length: the height of the VAB, ~492.4 hd

1 KERB* (kb): length: diameter of kerbin

1 Astronomical Unit**(au): length: radius of kerbin's orbit

1 Far ****** (fr): length: length from kerbol to nearest star

1 up (u): time: the time it takes a kerbal to get back up from laying down at rest (i.e. not counting the time spent flailing around

1 Slow (sl): speed: 1 hd/u

1 Fast (fa): speed: 1 vb/u

1 Astronomical Speed (as) **: speed: kerbin orbital speed

1 Oh No (on)***: speed: the minum speed at which an unprotected kerbal will overheat and die on rentry

1 Standard mass (sm): mass: 0.8x the mass of a kerbal (they were using a miscalibrated scale)

1 Ton (t) *: mass: the current ton (because "wow that weighs a ton!" even though tons are mass not weight)

1 Shove (sh): impulse (force x time, or mass x length/time): impulse required to knock over a kerbal, 256.4 sm x sl (I assumed a required impulse of 100Ns in irl metric units)

1 Oh Fu- (of) ****: impulse: impulse required to kill a kerbal on impact with the ground

1 Push (p): Force (or Thrust): 1sh/u, or 256.4 sm x hd / (u^2)

1 Strong (st) *****: Force: 256.4 t x hd / (u^2)

note: *units with one star are discovered when either a circumnavigating or suborbital fight is completed for the forst time

**units with two stars are unlocked upon successfully getting into orbit

***secret unit unlocked when a kerbal in eva burns up in kerbin atmosphere on reentry

****I'm sure you can figure out how this is unlocked

***** Unlocked in the tech tree with advanced rocketry or something

****** Unlocked upon completion of an interstellar voyage

****** metric prefixes (e.g. kilohead (khd) megahead (Mhd), etc.) are unlocked at some point on the tech tree)

it seems like it would be fun yo have to use really bad units at first and then unlock better ones. it would make the early game more challenging and provide more of a feeling of progression

not to say anything of the enhanced inmersion/lore

maybe irl metric units (as opposed to just the prefixes) can be unlocked by finding them in some lost civilization site

[desert glacier]

this just looks like a worse imperial system

[fathom ermine]

*more immersive

[desert glacier]

although the meter is based on the diameter of the earth so the kerb would kinda make sense

[desert glacier]

yeah but the reason the imperial system is a pain is the conversions are hard. maybe if you just base it off kerb like the metric system is based on one millionth of the quarter of the circumference of the earth

and then you have a kerbal metric system

of course that's the original definition now it's measured as 1/c light seconds

[near gulch]

absolute clown behavior

as a fellow american, be ashamed of yourself

metric is the only way

just learn it through playing

[spare warren]

just checked and this is officially the longest forum in the whole server lmao

[median aurora]

By what measurement?

[calm agate]

Amount of posts

[mystic urchin]

Such a precise number and then you say '~'.
Oy vey. Also make the numerals base 11 sub-base 3.

[mystic urchin]

I mean, that makes sense with respect to the "lore", but KSP is also a simulator. I would despise it if that came into the game.

[mystic urchin]

Oh well.

[fathom ermine]

the number behind ~ is from my quick calculations. I added 4 sig figs to display the level of accuracy i was going for, but idk if my quick calculations were actually correct (also they were based on the NASA VAB)

[near gulch]

kiloburgers per foot-ounce

[violet spoke]

As a fellow American im not ashamed

[crisp hound]

Is that considered a metric or an imperial measurement?

[calm agate]

Neither

[bitter rivet]

“ThERe’s NoThInG beTTer tHAN imperiAl”
The better imperial:

[dapper frost]

we shoudl totally use this in real life

[median star]

Yes! Upvote getting "head" in the game....

[wispy frost]

Correction: used to be based on the arc distance from the equator to the North Pole. It's now based on the speed of light

[desert glacier]

it's been redefined to be 1/c light seconds but yes it's original derivation was based on one 40 billionth the distance of the circumference of the earth

[desert glacier]

also I already said that

[wispy frost]

That message literally didn't show for me lmao

[desert glacier]

lol

[timber rover]

as an american that is 10 football feilds

you gotta visulize it

[mortal owl]

I was thinking of a unit like Kraken/h = Kraken attacks per hour of game play.
So in a corner of your screen you would have a little Kraken with that value on it.
So every time you got a Kraken attack, you just press "CTRL+K" this would register a Kraken attack plus a time stamp.
Lets say you play for 20h and got 82 Kraken attacks this would give you a 4.1 Kraken/h
Maybe I will make this mod

[heavy python]

learn metric you corn syrup buffoon

[leaden sundial]

Its called quality of life, it is not necessary but makes the game more pleasant for some players because that is what they are familiar with. Sure you can understand 1 m/s is 2.2 mph/ 3.6 kph but its more fun to see things in the units you are used to for comparison reasons. I would probably still use m/s but I can see this is a small feature that would make the game more enjoyable for some.

[median star]

Ya, but why the need to convert? You learn that 57 m/s is too fast to hit Kerbin, and adjust from there. If they used an arbitrary measurement (say, "head" like @fathom ermine detailed) you wouldn't say "hey! convert that system into Imperial for me.

[nova helm]

Imperial is not used in space science. Good for short distances but horribly intensive and usually inaccurate for large distances. It's really easy to pick up and I urge you to learn it. From the US myself

[velvet anchor]

yard and foots absolutely doesnt make sense

and why 1 mile is hecking 5000 feet

that doesnt make sense especcialy when your doubling like multiple miles into feet

they only use metric maybe other science group or something use imperial but i think today we only use metric in space

[strong ledge]

Ima add to this magnificent form and say as a student of physics the idea of using imperial units is mega cursed. I agree the option should be there for players who like imperial units but people really should learn the metric system as it is the international unit of measurements with regards to science and a lot of countries on earth use it as their standard system. Also I think a kerbal unit of measurement should be added as I find that idea really funny but again options to switch for players from kerbal units to metric units.

[nova helm]

(Keters) mk, dk, k, Dk, Ck, Kk

And incidentally Kiters XD

[strong ledge]

What about different coordinate systems?

For example complex? Would we have a kerbalised complex system or kerbalised polar coordinates

Possibilities are endless when inventing a new unit system

[nova helm]

I already have au figured out

Kastronimical Unit. KU

[strong ledge]

Noice

I think light year should be kraken year as it’s the speed the kraken travels at

[nova helm]

ky, I like it

Post lightspeed speeds can be measured as KK instead of CC

[strong ledge]

Yee

[wind rivet]

It actually was - NASA used it for displays through Apollo

[nova helm]

and it was noted that it was incredibly inaccurate which is why they stopped

but i can happily ammend the post to "not used in space science anymore*" so we dont play the semantics game

[crisp hound]

But the actual scientist and engineers used metric,

[leaden sundial]

but still thats besides the point why not add a simple feature that would make the game for fun for some, how dose it hurt you

[nova helm]

With metric you have loads of steps beyond Km. With imperial you have to stop at miles. You will have such phenomenally massive numbers on display (especially with interstellar distances) that you will be incapable of visualizing.

Small scale example. It is easier to visualize and at a glance interpret 1 Mm (megameter) than it's mile conversion which is 621.371 Miles.

Large scale example. The distance between earth and jupiter is 778,000 Mm, six numbers on display that are converted easily, versus miles at 483,426,788 mi.

This is why is why imp is not used in space science. Rather than sit there and say "I don't understand these measurements" would it not be better to say "I don't understand these but will learn them." KSP has always taught tons of people new things, so why not learn metric. It's REALLY easy to pick up and is genuinely useful to know

[tender rivet]

Well imp is like 5 systems shoved together, they weren’t meant to be used together at conception, so that’s kinda like complaining that 2.54 centimeters is one inch

[mystic urchin]

1. Mega-miles exists bruh.
2. You wanna use KSP to make people learn metric? That's about as stupid as saying "KSP has always taught tons of people new things, so why not learn to live with krakens and absurd glitches".
3. Sure, metric is very useful to know but that can't be the reason to not include imperial in the game. Patience is also a very useful thing to learn, yet no one would use that as a reason to propose that KSP's loading-times should not be optimised.

Yes, I hate imperial and I'm not totally okay with adding it to the stock game, but none of your arguments really make sense.

[nova helm]

1. Mega miles absolutly do not exist
2. Poor comparison. Kraken and bugs have nothing to do with people learning astrophysics.
3. Argument has nothing to do with the base statement and aren't even closely related.
4. Glosses over the entire point of the post.

Make a coherent counter point before getting rustled for seemingly unknown reasons and coming at me with nonsensical rambling.

[tepid quail]

Y’all… just make a mod that changes the units. It’s not that hard.

[wind rivet]

or just make it a setting

[rapid laurel]

Exactly why it would be perfect for a mod

[leaden sundial]

or a setting

[rapid laurel]

If you want it anytime in the near future, ask for a mod

[leaden sundial]

fair point

[meager stratus]

How about Rankin?

[feral siren]

I only use mile and MPH

[mortal owl]

19 celsious = 525.87 rankine = 17.475 romer = 15.2 réaumur = 6.27 newton = 54 delisle = ... and im sure as we venture thru the universe more units systems will be created to better suit our needs

[upbeat carbon]

Ah yes, mile cubed is a very interesting measurement for volume.
Practical too - where else you need mathematical notation for grocery shopping

1 mi³ = 4168182000000 L

[upbeat carbon]

Also measuring temperature in avg mph of molecules is fun

[formal ermine]

"Honey could you get 0.33 mi^3 of toilet paper? Should last a few centuries for the family"

[upbeat carbon]

1021m³ is earth volume
So 0.0033% of the earth is toilet paper now

[formal ermine]

Need to pump those numbers up

5% earth volume minimum

[terse scaffold]

Bro got Clowned 340 times lmao

[median star]

Does your entry make 340 or 341?

[nova helm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/738108067220029563/1089130350938177556/FB_IMG_1679739279788.jpg

[terse scaffold]

To give the Imperial system credit Fahrenheit actually makes a small bit of sense

[livid moss]

I agree, it's annoying to convert delta V from m/s to ft/s

[plucky minnow]

💀

[median star]

But why do you need to?

[dense relic]

The only thing you need to know about metric for ksp is meters and kilometers i would assume. 1000 meters are 1 km. Thats the only thing you gotta know.

[livid moss]

To comprehend the numbers.

[median star]

I know some others, most notably flying games let you choose your preferred system, be it knots, km/hr or mph, but they are not working with astronomical numbers. And I still stand by, once you know how many meters a second is too fast to slam into the ground, you're good to go lol. If it's the system in game, you'll adapt, whether you bother to convert it or not. According to Steam, I've got over 8500hrs in KSP1, and I've only launched it from Steam for a small portion of the time I've played it. Never once do I remember wishing they'd change it. Not knocking anyone else's wishes/preferences/needs, and it seems like it'd be easy to build a converter choice in, I just never thought it necessary. I'm a retired Marine, so full on American, but when based overseas where it was all metric, adjusted pretty quickly. 30 degrees Celcius is fricking hot, 100kg is fracking heavy, 160km/h is freaking fast, etc., etc..

[eager dune]

alright, from now on it will be measured by "shotgun per second"

[tender rivet]

Is that the length of a shotgun or the distance a traveled by the shotgun bullet

@eager dune

[eager dune]

length of a shotgun

[formal ermine]

Washing machines per hour

[eager dune]

we'll have a menu to pick from every object per second EXCEPT the imperial system

[upbeat carbon]

The Seven Cs included?
https://youtu.be/KmfdeWd0RMk

[tender rivet]

What about the fff system

[crisp lantern]

i only want MPH for planes

[topaz ingot]

as an american, i barely understand imperial measurement. if you tell me "20,000ft" i cannot visualize at all if it's a far distance or not

[tender rivet]

Bruh we are now at 1485 msgs in this thread

[wide oar]

I can’t believe I’m chiming in but here it goes:
The thing I don’t see mentioned is the relationship between different measurements. In imperial units the ratios between mass, velocity, heat, temperature, and energy are awful. Take it from someone who has worked with foot pounds. Metric the ratios are not only simple but they help highlight the relationship between the units. KSP is about teaching people and teaching the relationship between metric units is a lot easier.

So the downside of using imperial units is that yes you can have your familiar mph and feet but it also means pounds force and pounds mass need to be included

[wide oar]

And no one wants that

[formal ermine]

What's the conversion? I forget. Like 1 calorie to heat up one gram of water up 1 degree celsius

On the scales of space, metric has very easy conversions to like every measurement it feels like

[sweet wolf]

H O W ?

[wide oar]

(On earth) it’s something like 33 lbm to one lbf (I think, it’s been a while).

[nova helm]

Fahrenheit has a much more specified and immovable freeze point due to its specific brine solution formula, c is just fresh water which varies. I for one think Kelvin should be used for space. More accurate

[wide oar]

We should use Kelvin because it makes all of the math nice. Rankine (the imperial equivalent to Kelvin) is not the worst to use but the other units around it suck. Fahrenheit should never be used in science.

[median star]

Another space game does use Kelvin.

[storm compass]

32.2 > 9.81

[bitter rivet]

KSP1 uses Kelvin right?
or am I stupid rn

[nova helm]

Yes

[woven zephyr]

Metric should definitely be used for matters involving science but I don't mind the imperial system
with imperial you can set your thermostat to 69° and not melt

[crisp hound]

I honestly laughed at this so hard

[livid moss]

🙂

[calm agate]

100 ft in 0.018 miles
100 in in 8.33 ft

[sweet wolf]

Surprise! Kelvin and Celsius use the exact same scale, the only difference it's that K starts at the absolute 0, but they use the same spacing

The main reason Kelvin was invented was because some thermodynamics equations could not be solved using negative numbers as temperature, so they made a scale system that would use the same spacing as Celsius but would not have negative numbers.

And 0ºC is the temperature at which distilled water freezes at 1atm of pressure, preety specific to me.

[nova helm]

Kelvin are not degrees unlike celsius. It's like you said, a scale. That and the fact it's base tempature is nowhere near Celsius makes it fundamentally differant

[woven zephyr]

I've just completed my second astronomy course and I still don't understand Kelvin...

[calm agate]

You just missed the point of their comment

[sweet wolf]

ºC = K + 273.15

The same scale

[nova helm]

ahhh i did miss the point XD

[violet spoke]

20000ft is around the height planes fly at

[calm agate]

Planes fly at all sorts of heights, dont know what you meanm

[formal ermine]

The really bad planes fly at 0 ft weirdly enough

[violet spoke]

It may just be me but when I think about planes flying I think about the words cruising altitude of 30000 or 20000 feet

[tiny silo]

airliners usually cruise between 30k and 40k ft.

[bitter rivet]

Nah the bad pilots (and planes) hit negative values

And the even worse ones will always stay at -6ft after that.

[fallow crest]

Can they even be considered planes?

[tender rivet]

Yes they can cus a plane on a runway is still a plane

[formal ermine]

If you are a relaxed person you can stretch the definition as much as you'd like. No one to stop you anyhow

[barren moat]

lol

[tender rivet]

We are at 1526 msgs

[median star]

1527

1528

[tender rivet]

Lol

1530

[full blaze]

no way this thread is still going

[tender rivet]

Lol

[median star]

It's been a few days since there's been any real discussion...1533

[median star]

If we get to 1620 msgs, does that count as 1000 Imperial?

[shy viper]

does not compute. what is this imperial you speak of? heresy is detected!

[wind rivet]

Fittingly people are measuring it

[barren moat]

Its stupid.

[stable dagger]

Well, just learn metric system. It'll be good for US to have educated people with metrics

[lost plover]

Feet

[waxen pollen]

US citizen try not to be obsessed with feet challenge (impossible)

[dusk shell]

This is how you crash your probe into the Duna historically a bad idea to work with imperial measurements when dealing with space flight

[leaden sundial]

ok but why dose it matter what someone uses in their game its their game so shouldn't they be able to use whatever units they want?

[indigo geyser]

its the developers game, not players', and the developers realised imperial units and spaceflight make no sense together (better to just learn metric)

[fleet iron]

it's a better system.

[acoustic bluff]

i dont respect anyones opinion when they unironically say that imperial is a better unit of measurement than metric

[fleet iron]

well you should (they are correct)

[full blaze]

i thought they were saying metric is better not imperial lmaoo

[sweet wolf]

lmao peak trolling right here

[waxen pollen]

its really not. have u ever heard of rankine

[terse scaffold]

"100 milliliter, which is probably like 5.781995 [expletive] fluid ounces in imperial units, i literally have no idea at this point" cooking video i once watched

also it makes no sense (at least to me) for typical human body temperature to be close to a hundred degrees

[wide oar]

Sensor that. Honestly some of us have || rankine || trauma from uni.

[waxen pollen]

i am in the process of acquiring the trauma now 😎

[wide oar]

Loved thermo, did not love the imperial units I was subjected to in it

Give me kelvin over ||rankine|| any day

[urban fulcrum]

What the f-

[wide oar]

Have you taken thermo or heat transfer?

[urban fulcrum]

1. I’m not in the US so I won’t encounter Imperial units anyways
2. I’m 14 so no

[wide oar]

Count your blessings

[stable dagger]

Metric system is just better.

Everything is based on the meter while imperial depends on someone inch or feet

Like 1grams is based of water in a 1cm cube

1 liter is a 10cm cube volume

[terse scaffold]

100 ml of water is (roughly) 100g
metric system nice huh

[stable dagger]

We consider 1 ton as 1000l of pure water at 4°C

[wide oar]

Except when it is not. More often than not it is just some random number made up by some random old dude.

[barren moat]

dont get me started on temperature.

[stable dagger]

0°C is where the water become ice

Which is 273.15K

[barren moat]

Yea. Much more measurable. Doesn't have to do with fevers or tea making at all.

[stable dagger]

since it's a 1948 unit

[calm agate]

At sea level

[stable dagger]

at 1ATM

more precise

Also temp is not related to metric system 🙂

[barren moat]

1 goes witht he other usually

[stable dagger]

You don't define Celcius with meter

[calm agate]

But you could calculate temperature with meter

[sweet wolf]

lmao like??

I'm assuming you don't know what u are talking about, so I'll reccomend u this video, where it explains not only why the metric system is better but from where do the basic units come from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hid7EJkwDNk&t=659s&ab_channel=RealEngineering

[sweet wolf]

Except it is

Metric is in the International System of Untis. All of the units which form part are elemental, and are what we use to represent the world arround us. There are 7 of thesw

Distance: meter (m)
Time: second (s)
Temperature: Kelvin (K)
Mass: kilogram (kg)
Electric current: ampere (A)
Amount of substance: mole (mol)
Luminous intensity: candela (cd)

[stable dagger]

How do you calculate °C with M ?

a kg is the weight of water in a 10cm cube

Ampere, a coulomb charge travel in one second

Well, I'm bored

[sweet wolf]

No, the kilogram is not defined as that.

[stable dagger]

But, I mean that Celcius is not a part of the metric systemas you cannot descibre Celcius with meters

[sweet wolf]

The kilogram is defined by plank's constant

[stable dagger]

Howerer, it's in the International Unit System

[stable dagger]

Since 2019

[sweet wolf]

welp, as far as I know, we are in 2023

[stable dagger]

Still, it was defined like this

And it's not that far to reality

[sweet wolf]

No, the kilogram was defined by a chunk of metal

THIS was the definition of kilogram before 2019

[stable dagger]

Talking about 1795

Original kg

[sweet wolf]

as u can see, it is now much more elegant, defining units of mesurement by the laws of phisics (I feel) is better

[sweet wolf]

True, true.

[stable dagger]

I know that seconds is based on Cesium 133

As the osc=illation is in Hz aka s^-1

[sweet wolf]

But, they are still related in the sense that they form part of the SI units. That's what I was trying to say

[stable dagger]

yes

[sweet wolf]

yep yep

that's correct

[stable dagger]

A meter is by memory 1/299 792 458 the distance made by light in 1 second

[sweet wolf]

u know the speed of light by memory?

[stable dagger]

kinda yes*

I'm a Physics Student

And also an amateur radio. Speed of light is required for calculating Antenna's Length

[sweet wolf]

R.I.P.
I'm a Biochemistry Student, so I'm not that fluent in it.

[sweet wolf]

Yep, true. I remember that.

[stable dagger]

As I built my own antenna

I let mine at the uni's radio station

[calm agate]

Sounds cool

[median star]

It doesn't really matter what the measurements are derived from, they both trace back to a Standard. The biggest diff to me is that most of metric is by 10's. Never heard of a kilo-mile, or micro-yards.

[terse scaffold]

if only time was also by 10's
oh wait... that is indeed a thing, it's called the french revolutionary calendar

[worn juniper]

The Waffle House has found its new host.

[bitter rivet]

It’s still going? There are 400+ clown reactions now lmao

[stable dagger]

410 with me

[smoky frigate]

I actually would really like 100 seconds in a minute and 100 minutes per hour, which would give us 8 hour days. Anything longer than a day has to be celestial though, and since changung earth's orbit is out of the question, nicely divisible months will never happen.

[barren moat]

414

[wind rivet]

Kinda sounds like the French revolutionary calendar

[wide oar]

Referring to metric not SI. There are a few differences. Also it not all units are based on the meter, though all units can be defined in relation to the meter.

[sweet wolf]

Metric is not made up by a random dude. Metric is defined relatve to constants of physics.

[wide oar]

All SI units play nice. Not all metric units play nice

[sweet wolf]

like?

please, please, please tell me which metric unit is made up by something that's not physics

[sweet wolf]

the meter is the SI unit for distance?

[wide oar]

No bestie, not even close to what I am saying. Some metric units were defined independently then were related to meter. All of units are related to physics, even in imperial.

[wide oar]

Bar for pressure

[wide oar]

Not all metric units are SI units

They are different systems

[sweet wolf]

yep, that's true

[sweet wolf]

ah you got me, I was wrong.

[wide oar]

I had to suffer through unit conversions so goddamn much. As much as I love the metric system the bar has scared me to much for me to ever let it go

[sweet wolf]

If I'm being honest, I forgot bar existed

I always use Pa or kPa

[wide oar]

It's still better than psi

[sweet wolf]

yeah, we don't talk about psi

[wide oar]

Unit system tier list:
SI
CGS
Metric
nothing (go make something else up)
Imperial

[sweet wolf]

I agree, except I would switch CGS and metric arround

[wide oar]

CGS is more internally consistent. Though the importance of that is subjective

[terse scaffold]

idk i've only ever used metric units

only time imperial units were even mentioned at school was during a physics class, where we were told the conversion ratio from cm to inch was 1.54

[tawny oracle]

Just think of everything below 5 kilometers a pretty close and I hate you if you want mph for speed.

[barren moat]

used both and can say metric is much better

[tender rivet]

I do just want to say if your reason for thinking metric is better than imperial is that it’s defined by fundamental constants then that’s not a good argument because imperial is also, a good argument is all units are somewhat related nicely and to size up or down you just add a prefix

Also this vid https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iJymKowx8cY&pp=ygUZV2h5IGltcGV1YWwgaXNudCB0aGF0IGJhZA%3D%3D

[terse scaffold]

barely understood what you were trying to say but i still think imperial sucks

[sweet wolf]

Imperial is funadmentally not. That's just how it is. You could argue That since the metric conversion act it is, sice the USA started defining all their units in relation to the metric system, but it never was before that. Besides, imperial is a mess.

[finite smelt]

I like to measure in hamburgers

[urban fulcrum]

I’m going to take a guess that that’s the jan Misali video

[tender rivet]

So was metric

[sweet wolf]

The meter was originally defined in 1793 as one ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole along a great circle.

Pretty universal to me, instead of "this stick is a yard, thank you very much."

[tender rivet]

What about the kilogram

Also the in that case the earth is “this stick”

And how is is the EARTH, UNIVERSEal

[calm agate]

He said pretty universal, also that's not what universal means

[tender rivet]

Hey 420 clowns

3 days to late

[gusty meteor]

damn 😔

[sweet wolf]

Yeah, the kg was originally defined as a block. Fortunately, it's not now.

[tender rivet]

But the pound is defined by the kilogram

[frank socket]

We literally cannot do any more clowning or else it'll be ruined

[gusty meteor]

I’ll un clown if someone clowns

[calm agate]

Perfectly balanced, as all things should be

[gusty meteor]

guys don't worry its 422 but that's 420 too

[obsidian elm]

How about we use stones instead of kg?

[tender rivet]

English or French

[gusty meteor]

no the really big rock i found

I undid my clown emoji so it's still 422

[tawny oracle]

AHHHHHHHH

[gusty meteor]

@calm agate can you un react so we get 420

[waxen pollen]

we did it boys

wait we need 9 more messages

im sure i can cover that myself without it being too bad right?

nice

[gusty meteor]

nice

[candid sonnet]

No someone pls remove it

[sweet wolf]

there

[eager dune]

perfect

[median star]

We should have done it five days ago....on 4/20

but I was too busy watching Starship to think about it (all measurements in metric btw....)

[bitter rivet]

What about something like this here

[stable dagger]

Bahhaha

[clever mountain]

I would like the ability to switch speed modes, Like KMP/H MP/H, having to convert between Km/s to km/h during a landing attempt is annoying, plus it allows people to learn stuff by sinmply playing/looking at the game.

Like it'd be cool to see what speed you are going in kmh when orbitting kerbin, but now that i'm writing this i think it's scaled down anyways so it doesn't really help that much maybe..

It'd be cool if we could have a setting that converts ingame kerbal speed real world speeds for educational purposes :3

[tender rivet]

I’m pretty sure this is the most active forum

[bitter rivet]

It is indeed

And we are very close to hitting

A total offf…

1700 messages

[tender rivet]

A what

[bitter rivet]

A total of over 1700 messages in this thread

[tender rivet]

Ah

Well now 1704

[fresh trench]

Dont bug me with this please

[stable dagger]

m/s and km/h

[calm agate]

Dude, you're not going at km/s during a landing attempt..

[clever mountain]

Oh see that's what happens when you have to convert xd

[clever mountain]

Thanks

[barren moat]

Dude.

[tender rivet]

I just wanna say this is like the second most commented forum and it’s just about units

[sweet wolf]

No wonder, the forum started with "I want imperial because I don't know metric".

[waxen pollen]

maybe if he just plays some he'll start to learn and understand metric

[near gulch]

absolute clown behavior

[eager dune]

bro who the heck landed an asteroid

[bitter rivet]

Small asteroid the size of a big asteroid

[rapid laurel]

At least not for a successful landing attempt

[tender rivet]

Well 0.001 km/s

[storm compass]

Make everyone unhappy use metric but always in engineering notation

10e-4 Km/s

[calm agate]

Scientific notation

[safe token]

I personally find meters per second quite easy to understand and I’m from Murica but a Mach counter would be nice

[sweet wolf]

That would actually be ckinda neat

[rapid laurel]

Mach counter would be cool, yeah. Especially since it's not a straight conversion

[urban fulcrum]

Yeah Mach number would definitely be useful

[wind rivet]

pft, do it in log

Yah maybe add mach and Q as options?

[storm compass]

I do like mach very much as a unit.

[storm compass]

only natural logs tho

[tiny basin]

1 meter is 3.33 feet, 1km is 333 feet.

mach 1 is speed of sounds which is somewhere 310-330m/s, 2 mach is 660 and so on.

Metric is pretty straight forward. 1km is 1000meter, 1 meter is 1000millimeter. 1ton is 1000kg, 1kg is 1000g. You need 9,81kn of thrust to have twr of 1 at Kerbin with vessel of 1Ton which has gravity of 9,81.

[safe token]

No it’s not

[tiny silo]

closer to 3,333 ft

you didn't move the decimal enough

[sweet wolf]

your m/s divided by 343

that's the conversion

[calm agate]

No, mach is how fast you are compared to the speed of sound, and because the speed of sound is different depending on the fluid/gas you're in, the conversion isn't straight forward

m/s divided by 343 is just mach at sea level or something

[rapid laurel]

Yup. Mach 1 on eve or duna would be significantly different speeds

[clever mountain]

If only flat earthers knew 1% of this information

[stable dagger]

That's why Mach speed is useless except for fighter jet or jet planes

[small mountain]

Seems like skill issue to me

[clever mountain]

Hey i'm not opposed to learning feet and miles

I wish they added like real world distances in metres and such in the smaller scale ksp world so i could learn real life values for everything :O

(So it just converts the numbers to irl numbers)

[small mountain]

But in science we don't use imperial system at all

We hate it from the depths of our hearts

[clever mountain]

I know but people in the real world use it sometimes so it's handy to know both

cause we all know the stupid aren't going to improve xd

And tbh i do a lot of stuff that requires converting weights and heights and speeds :< US game servers and the gym weights for example

[storm compass]

Engineering uses imperial alot

Depending on the field

[rapid laurel]

There's not really a lot of civ e in KSP though

[severe abyss]

I’m an American and I think because of this I can say that we should not use the imperial method for a few reasons.

First, even though I normally use imperial, most of the world doesn’t.
Second, it’s more scientific to use meters and actually easier when you get the hang of it. Saying 1 kilometer is much easier than saying 0.621371 miles.

[storm compass]

I'm mechanical actually, but yes its in civ too.

[median star]

All my tool chests have both, I'm noticing I'm using the Imperial side a lot less these days. Even the lug nuts on most of my "American made" cars are metric, lol.

[tender rivet]

Now in every day use imperial can be nice because it has a lot of human sized units

For example if you were thinking oh it’s about 60% temp outside rn it’s prob around 60 degrees Fahrenheit

[calm agate]

??

[rapid laurel]

Temperature isn't a percentage in any measurement system I know of

[calm agate]

They probably mean 60*

[tender rivet]

What ima saying is that Fahrenheit is very intuitive

[calm agate]

What do you even mean

[median star]

It's only intuitive if you grew up using it...

[smoky frigate]

What's 60% temp even mean? 60% of what? 60% of my butter melted?

[gusty meteor]

More like 60% of melting your butt off outside but still. The same argument can be made for Celsius except the limit would be 30 degrees or something

[calm agate]

Nah bro percentages are never used in temperature I think???

[safe token]

Nah im Murican but I use kilometers in my head a lot. A lot easier to grasp

[coral shadow]

0 degrees Fahrenheit = -16 degrees Celsius = coldest winter temperatures in most human-inhabited areas. 100 degrees Fahrenheit = 38 degrees Celsius = hottest summer temperatures in most human-inhabited areas. The Fahrenheit scale works for ordinary Earth temperatures. Celsius and Kelvin are better for science, but Fahrenheit is a good Earth-centered scale.

[tender rivet]

That’s what I mean

[calm agate]

That'll be useful when you're on Mars

[unique tulip]

could we please change units of measurement to string, like the mun is 200 pieces of string away from kerbin, really far distances could be converted to rope, im pretty sure this is what they did in NASA with the challenger and the columbia ships

[coral shadow]

I am SAYING it's not ENTIRELY pointless to use Fahrenheit. I would use Celsius on Mars.

[hard storm]

WHAT

THE

HECK

IS

A

MILES!!!!!!!!!!!

[smoky frigate]

By those rules (0 being the average coldest and 100 being the average hotest) fahrenheit is a decent system for southern Europe, southern Africa, southern Australia, middle North America, and southern South America & the Andes (~23° to ~86°). It's not good for the northern regions (-13° to 86°), north & central Africa (41° to 108°), Central America and northern South America (73° to 86°), India (60° to 108°), Southeast Asia (68° to 86°), or northern Australia (59° to 104°). Average temperature varies too much to use one coherent system based on it.

We're talking about a space game anyway, most of the temperatures we're going to see are measured in hundreds either way, if not thousands high. This is about measuring what no little green man has ever measured before, not nominal readings at KSC.

[coral shadow]

Agreed

[coral shadow]

1 mile = 1.6 km

[hard storm]

Ew miles💀

[coral shadow]

Completely and totally agree

You asked though

[severe abyss]

Let’s solve this, just measure it by donuts.

[rapid laurel]

20 is comfy, 30 is hot, 10 is cold, 40 is very hot, 0 is very cold, 50 is hot enough to be dangerous, -10 is cold enough to be dangerous.

Very easy

[coral shadow]

Agree, but in Fahrenheit it’s still very easy: 50-70 is comfy, 80-90 is hot, 100 is very hot, 20-40 is very cold, over 100 is hot enough to be dangerous, below 0 is cold enough to be dangerous.

I’m American but love metric, and use Fahrenheit and imperial only because I grew up with it. I still think miles, pounds, etc. are awful, but I think Fahrenheit is B or C-tier

[hard storm]

It was a joke💀

[coral shadow]

I am autistic so put /j if it’s a joke

[median star]

This whole thread is 10% Imperial, 20% Metric, 1% Donuts, 69% Joke.

[gusty meteor]

And 15% bad at math

[terse scaffold]

what in the world

celsius makes so much more sense

[coral shadow]

Depends on what you’re using it for, I would say Fahrenheit is better for weather/climate on Earth.

[median star]

At least mine was good. I checked it 15(%?) times to make sure it added to 100, lol.

[tender rivet]

but what makes Celsius more intuitive than Fahrenheit? No matter what system you use it will be arbitrary unless you use exact universal constants.

[gusty meteor]

Right, the joke was I was adding stuff so it’s >100%.

[calm agate]

Easy to convert to kelvin

[sweet wolf]

Not only easy but exactly the same in respect to scale. If you placed them both on a grid, you'd see the line has the same slope, making them effectively the same.

[median star]

Oh I got it, though after watching this thread from the beginning I think your addition for overestimation was in itself an underestimation. Grin.

[halcyon berry]

I’m impressed this is still going

[clever mountain]

I'm just saying i wouldnt be opposed to learning feet and miles

[stable dagger]

Anyway, what's about a % of light speed ?

[tender rivet]

But isn’t the distance between degrees is completely arbitrary

[stable dagger]

0°C = 273.15K

[tender rivet]

ik

[sweet wolf]

As far as I know all the International System units are defined by the laws of phisics, so they are not arbitrary. Kelvin is the SI unit for Temperature.

[tender rivet]

ik

but the separation is just the same as Celsius which is arbitrary.

[calm agate]

That's not really a good point anymore

[gusty meteor]

0 degrees Celsius is freezing. 100 degrees Celsius is boiling. It’s not arbitrary

[stable dagger]

it is depending of the pression

To be more precise, it's true at 1 atm

[calm agate]

Which is sea level, where a lot of people live

[terse scaffold]

no it's not

it's incredibly weird to say "100 degrees outside"

it's just... no

[tender rivet]

Bro I’m in the us and in the summers it easily gets to 100

It has been 120 before tho

[stable dagger]

0°C + 0°C = 0°C

but 0°C + 0°C = 64F

[coral shadow]

Most places don't get that hot until late summer. 100 degrees F = 38 degrees C. Do I think Fahrenheit is better than Celsius/Kelvin? No. Do I think it makes more sense than the rest of imperial? Yes.

[terse scaffold]

ok maybe it's better than the rest of imperial
but not better than metric

[coral shadow]

agree

[tender rivet]

Yes in my opinion metric is better it’s just that imperial isn’t as bad as some people say and Fahrenheit is the best from imperial

[subtle basalt]

you guys are breaking 20c?

[warm osprey]

Fahrenheit is better for saying how it feels outside like the weather but celsius/kelvins better for pretty much anything else

[calm agate]

Id probably agree but I have never been to an american gas station

[uncut rock]

30 day free trial of imperial then metric forever

[stable dagger]

then 15.99$ per months

[eager dune]

what is blud talking about💀

[keen widget]

wrong server then.

[split cove]

Idea killed
It's dead
Ridiculed by the server
Literally thrown out an airlock
Get better ideas

[clever mountain]

What about my Interactive jool / Planet specific tech tree idea? :3

[leaden sundial]

how are people still fighting against a quality of life option that dosent effect them in the slightest but makes the game more enjoyable for others

[calm agate]

Cause bias

[split cove]

Because metric isn't difficult to learn

The smallest meaningful unit in KSP is a meter

1000 Meters is a Kilometer

Mass is in KG and metric tons

(Conveniently, metric tons are 1000kg)

[calm agate]

It's really easy to remember feet in miles... just remember five to matoes. Five two eight o..

For the rest of the units idk

[split cove]

All the units are so incredibly dumb

The only ones anyone even bothers to remember is 12in = foot, 3 ft = Yard

That's it, Celcius is WAY more intuitive as well, water freezes at 0, it boils at 100, SIMPLE

And you don't need to Google stuff just to convert between the seemingly random units

[calm agate]

Some things are just not good as other things, but that's alright. Just no reason to keep using meh systems..

[split cove]

And also, adding imperial literally only benefits ignorant Americans who don't want to learn metric

EVERYONE ELSE USES METRIC

[calm agate]

Celcius is easily converted into kelvin, and kelvin allows u to use all sorts of formulas

[split cove]

Yep

[leaden sundial]

you completely missed the point

[leaden sundial]

still a group of the player base that is just as important despite your superiority complex

even if the imperial system is bad there is no reason someone shouldn't be able to use it if they want to, its not about what system is better or how popular they are its about personal preference and just because its an uncommon one doesn't make it less valid

[split cove]

I'm an American yk, I just decided to spend 5 minutes recalling myself learning metric in school

And if they really need imperial units to function, they can just not play

[leaden sundial]

again you are completely missing the point did you not read any of my messages or can you just not understand what im trying to tell you

[split cove]

I don't think we should waste time accommodating a system that is objectively worse and doesn't really help the learning experience, perhaps KSP will make metric more popular

[halcyon berry]

Aviation is in imperial. Gotta have it

[halcyon berry]

Wait till you hear about rankine

[leaden sundial]

I dont think that is a good philosophy for a product

[keen widget]

exactly, they should just learn metric like majority of the world. And all the inconveniences and expensive mistakes would be avoided

[leaden sundial]

again thats out of scope this is video game not a societal agenda machine

[keen widget]

Not at all. It inspires a lot of people and above all it's a scientific game and as such should uphold its standards

[split cove]

^

[leaden sundial]

no the game is literally to have fun

[gusty meteor]

To be fair to luka if it wasn’t for ksp1 I wouldn’t have been interested in aerospace as a career

[leaden sundial]

yeah but thats more of a side effect

[split cove]

Imperial just sucks, its a fact

And honestly, if it means more americans learn metric instead of clinging to their awful system, deal with it

if KSP2 is meant for the next generation, guess what, METRIC IS TAUGHT IN MIDDLE SCHOOLS people know what a meter is, they know what a kilometer is, they know what grams and kilograms are, so basically, the only people not adding imperial would exclude are, elderly people, and people who are under the age of 10(who once you get below like age 7 its becomes increasingly unlikely that they player knows how to read, much less really comprehend orbital mechanics), heck, my sister played KSP1 under age 10, she still knows what a meter is, because metric makes sense

so basically the only people this would exclude are grown adults and babies who can't read anyways, and a grown adult can still just learn metric and recall that high school education they got

[halcyon berry]

Wrong

[eager dune]

ksp nerd speaks facts for the second time lets go

[terse scaffold]

hand over evidence, false prophet

[calm agate]

This is not an argument, this is a circus

[lapis geyser]

really what you guys want is the ability to feel how fast you are going by looking at numbers

if that's what you want, then learn average conversions between m/s and mph

44 m/s = 100mph

22 m/s = 50mph

goes roughly like that

we don't need a battle between faux-academic elitists and rednecks

[violet spoke]

This forum is still active?????

[coral shadow]

my point exactly

besides the conversion is easy

(degF - 32) * 5/9 = degC

[calm agate]

well thats hard to remember

[terse scaffold]

to be fair, i find it kinda silly that in celsius, temperatures like 20-30 degrees are considered unbearably hot
but farhenhneitenrttiet (why so hard to spell) is off as well

[calm agate]

Bro 20 centigrade is literally room temperature?? No way that is in the range of unbearably hot

[terse scaffold]

my parents keep talking about things like "33 degrees it's so hot outside"

[calm agate]

That's above the 20-30 range tho

[gusty meteor]

I just multiply by 2 for a quick estimate. Once it goes above 100 mph I don’t really have a feel for how fast I’m going anymore since you never go faster than 70 mph in a car

I just get a feel for m/s. 2km/s is kerbin orbit speed, 10 m/s and under is good for landing, etc

[obsidian elm]

its simply better to multiply by 3 instead of 2

for KPH

2.25~ for mph

[eager dune]

33 degrees aint that hot

[coral shadow]

33C is pretty hot but 33F is freezing

[vital aurora]

I've got a unit: capybara/day,which means if my calculations are correct then escape velocity of kerbin is approximately 2.28E8 Capybaras/day

[gusty meteor]

You mean kapybara*

[wind rivet]

if it's unoriginal is it a copybara?

[clever mountain]

It'd be cool if they made a conversion mode where they treat kerbin as the earth with.. well conversion. So it will give you speed values for the real world and such instead of Kerbin, makes it so that you learn about all of this stuff while playing the game :d

[fresh raft]

As in real life DV requirements? There was a mod for that in ksp1 and I'm sure there will be another one for ksp2.

[clever mountain]

Nah not requirements but values, So you will still be playing on 1/6th scale but the speeds and distances have been converted to real world units. So it just shows 1/6ths as a a full one. :)

[fresh raft]

so instead of the karmen line being 100km it is 16km?

I don't really understand what you're getting at

[clever mountain]

Basically we just pretend as if it's not 1/6ths scale with the values

Like it will turn a real world meter into 6 meters eee Im not sure how to explain

[calm agate]

why would you want that tho

[clever mountain]

To learn about real world speeds and distances in-game :o

Like uhm.. One rl meter is 6 kerbal meters, but what if we just pretend like 6kerbals meters are one kerbal meter in the values

idk i think Bravo gets it

[calm agate]

cause it would be weird if space was already at 16 km

from earth perspective at least

[clever mountain]

Yeah but it'sll just show real world values for the kerbal distances, the Karman line will remain at 100km but orbital velocity will be 8km/s instead of 2279m/s

Kerbin's karman line is at 70km rn if i'm not mistaken

(Maybe this isnt at all possible cause it will ruin all the values and nothing will make sense relative to eachother?) idk xd

[calm agate]

well that wouldnt be logical

if u wanna learn real world speeds and distances u would have to wait for the real scaled system

[clever mountain]

You dont think it's possible to just add some numbers visually?

I'm guessing it's gonna mess up when like the Mun for example is not on the same orbital path as our rl moon scaled down wise. idk if the kerbol system is simply a scaled down solar system or if it's a lot different

Like idk if it simply puts dress inbetween mars and jupiter or if the distances between duna and Jool are just "made up"

[median star]

I think the 1/6th scale is only for mass considerations, dv, orbital height etc.. Speed is not fractionalized, 100m/s on Kerb scale is 100m/s Earth scale too. Or am I missing the point>?

[wind rivet]

You're correct

[wind rivet]

It is roughly 1/6th, but it's also quite different (and "flatter")

[clever mountain]

Oh i think i see my mistake, i was assuming that because of it being scaled down 100ms would be 600m/s (or whatever) in the real world

But the speeds are still the same, just the mass and size and all that

[ashen birch]

the imperial way of delta v is feet per second

from mercury to apollo they relied entirely off feet per second for delta v

nasa started using metric in the space shuttle program

the 80s was a transitional period

by 1990 it was 100% metric because of its ease of use

[terse scaffold]

i think a mars mission failed due to mixing together metric and imperial measurment systems

[eager dune]

yeah

[eager dune]

anything but imperial

[wind rivet]

Kinda: Apollo used metric internally

[thin venture]

Stupid americans don't know MS 🤣

[finite swallow]

How is this thread still alive 😮

[ashen birch]

most people do

at least where I live

also some metric units are becoming custom

like nobody uses fluid ounces anymore

people use liters

also in the whole cups, pints, gallons system

people really only use gallons

someone calling something a pint is getting rarer

we use a combination of liters and gallons

and most people can go into another country and understand the units

at least my generation

because learning metric as well is included in the curriculum

because there is a good reason to know them

[obsidian elm]

How about we measure weight in stones?

[obsidian ibex]

I still don't understand why this was such a controversial suggestion. It would only take a few minutes to implement and would make the game more accessible to some people

[eager dune]

anything but imperial

lets just use Big Macs/s since thats the true american way

[obsidian ibex]

there's nothing innately wrong with imperial. It's dogwater for doing calculations with, but as a system of measurement it's fine, especially for people who are more comfortable with it. I'm just a little disapointed with the community for being rude about it

it's like refusing to release foreign localisations because "english is the language of science lmao and if you wanna do rocket stuff you should just learn english". Like yeah, but this is a game and some people just want to have fun

[ashen birch]

the true british way

[hollow geode]

I can't tell you about controversy, but I can tell why I would be against it if I were in charge of making the decision.
The conversion wouldn't make it more accessible in the long run. It gives some people units they know, but it's not like they are used to "have a feel" for orbital speeds. They still have to learn.
Now let's imagine a new kerbonaut who played for a while using imperial (maybe even game automatically choose units at install, so he has no idea). He reached orbit and now he wants to design a Mun rocket. He types in "How much dV do I need to go to the Mun" in his search engine and that's where the "more accessible" ends.
With luck first result is in m/s and he has to deal with conversion anyway. Worse if it just says the number and our friend only finds out hours later after a lot of headscratching and empty vessels drifting in space.
We (KSP community) have used metric for years and created a lot of useful guides/tutorials. It's that simple.
Plus, if we implement imperial, soon we would have a part of community that wants it in new guides, dV maps, mods, etc. And well... you see how it goes in this thread.

[obsidian ibex]

Who the heck googles “delta V to get to X” except hardcore people who are deep in the Kerbal community? Literally no casual player would do that, they’d just add more rockets until they get to the planet. And the effort it would take to implement this would be at most 5 minutes, just divide by ~three and change m>ft, or something equally simple for miles or furlong or whatever Americans use

[eager dune]

why the hell does imperial even exist, literally like 3 countries use it

[obsidian ibex]

It’s no more or less correct than any other system. It’s just worse for doing math with

Like Chinese is terrible for using a keyboard with or teaching foreigners who don’t understand tonal language, but that doesn’t mean it’s an intrinsically bad language

[terse scaffold]

i think most people would use a dV map to check if their vessels can complete a certain goal
so the conversion problem still persists

[split cove]

Literally, most people use dv maps

Unless they are on a planet pack where none exists in which case the player is competent and can judge it

[coral shadow]

Me, a smart American who knows metric

[split cove]

Stupid people and babies who have not heard of metric shouldn't be the target audience

People forget that metric is part of science curriculum starting In middle school (where people are actually capable of properly playing the rocket game)

[coral shadow]

Agree wholeheartedly

[fresh raft]

um I learned metric and imperial together at the same time starting in 1st grade

besides the US is technically metric

there is just no standardized enforcement of it's use

[fresh raft]

Because imperial was built off of relatable objects, curious that a foot is nearly the size of your foot, an inch is roughly 3 barely seeds, a yard is about the size of your arm and a mile is 1000 strides. Imperial was created in a time when precision was not needed who cares if your farm is not exactly a square mile, long as it's good enough.

[untold owl]

woah how did a discussion on imperial and metric units get to near 2000 comments

[subtle basalt]

Subborn Americans refusing to learn the same system that everyone around them (including other Americans) uses

[fresh raft]

Snobby Europeans feeling the need to trumpet their superior system

[subtle basalt]

Europe

[untold owl]

I wouldn't call that europe...

[subtle basalt]

Europe

Europe

Europe

Those darn europeans

[fresh raft]

Actually that's exactly what happened.

European imperialism led to the spread and adoption of the metric system. Undoubtedly the metric system would still be adopted by any post industrial country because it is simply simpler and easier to convert but metric was introduced to colonies of Britain, France, etc. etc.

[subtle basalt]

Ah yes, metric was pushed by colonialism, as opposed to imperial which definitely wasnt

Also America was a colony, doesn't use metric, and Bhutan wasn't, but it does

[fresh raft]

Fair point, Britain switched to the metric system mid cold war instead of early industrialization like Germany and France

[gusty meteor]

Nicholas speaking facts

[eager dune]

💀

[waxen pollen]

It exists because pirates raided the French ship that was carrying the metric examples to the USA so we never got a chance to switch bc we didn't know

By the time someone high up was approached about it again the industrial revolution had begun and all the machines were already using imperial

So we got stuck as it would have cost the factories too much to switch

Iirc at least

[terse scaffold]

we were SO CLOSE

[eager dune]

what the HECK pirates

[fresh raft]

A soggy excuse. Britain switched to the metric system far after the industrial revolution occurred, 1965. Anyways technically the US did switch. With metric being the "preferred use of measurement." The US military and any other government establishment uses the metric system as their primary measurement system. Just when the metric act was signed in the 1970s there was no push for a complete switch only integration due to issues sited with funding in converting automobile speedometers and the road system etc and now the US is indefinitely stuck in the transition period between imperial and metric. We run 100 meter dashes, 5k marathons, buy our meds in milligrams and our coke in liters but still measure ourselves in pounds and tool our jet engines in imperial.

[fresh raft]

And also fun fact just about every single jet engine is tooled in imperial which forces just about every other Metric-using country to use imperial tool sets to maintain them.