when are the lies going to stop?

[fresh wyvern]

when are you going to start being honest about what we are going to get and when we are going to get it? Maybe give us a headsup that the game is litterally going to be unplayable unless you have spent 2000+ on a pc? I would really appreciate more clarity on what you get when you spend your money, not just promises of improovment

[fallow plover]

The game is pretty playable on my 800$ pc if graphics on low

[trim crystal]

Everything was clear if you paid attention.

[sturdy thistle]

What exactly did anyone lie about? The specs were published before release and early access is in the title. They also had a bunch of people go out and test the game and they published their honest opinions on the current state before release as well. Just curios what you think anyone lied about.

[fresh wyvern]

lies on how we are going to get an experience on par with ksp 1 vanilla with an improoved user interface (subjective, but in my opinion no), revamped kerbolar system (sure but it runs like crap), we did not get an experience on par with ksp 1, far worse, on par maybe with the 2014-2015 build, unplayable mostly aswell, and at a AAA inflated price tag

blatant lying in my opinion

[trim crystal]

Not if you read the fine (honestly though, it was more like bold) print.

[fresh wyvern]

maybe i might have gotten the wrong impression then, from the trailers and announcments made by the devs, but its an impression that allot of the community shares with me, that this was going to be something superior than ksp 1, a foundation upon something much greater could be built, i hope to be proved wrong but for now that really is VERY VERY far from being the thruth

[trim crystal]

You mention "a foundation upon something much greater could be built". Most foundations are plain concrete pillars and/or slabs. It seems like you expected to get most of the building as well.

[fresh wyvern]

a foundation is also meant to be strong and to perform well under harsh weather, and not to crumble at the slightest with of wind

[trim crystal]

The concrete has yet to cure.

[fresh wyvern]

i sure do hope so

[real trail]

Imma be honest people just want something to be mad at. I had a ton of fun with what’s there. In my mind (and I’ve heard this a lot), if this is KSP2 at its absolute worst, I can’t wait to be around for when it’s better.

[upbeat basin]

Once the critical bugs are fixed the game will be in a good foundation state.

[real trail]

Exactly

[fresh wyvern]

i can see where you are coming from, i think tough people also have a pretty good reason to be mad, we waited 3 years, you'd think the game would run smoothly at least, i really hope for the future tough

[upbeat basin]

The biggest performance issue right now is a bug with the planet renderer. The game can draw large crafts without any issues so long as they are the only thing in the frame.

My 1660 can run the game in a playable state.

[fresh wyvern]

cpu and ram?

[upbeat basin]

First gen Ryzen 5 and 32 gigs of ram.

[trim crystal]

I would be mad if they didn't have good reasons and weren't transparent. Luckily, the KSP 2 team wants the game as much as the rest of us, and tell us as much as they can.

[fresh wyvern]

ddr?

[upbeat basin]

ddr4. ddr5 did not exist when Ryzen came out.

[trim crystal]

I think there might be something about fuel crossfeed going around as well, but I don't know for sure

[fresh wyvern]

you give me hope but i always try to take everything with a grain of salt as we all know the game isnt being made for the good of the people here

[fresh wyvern]

oh ok, yeah i have an old 6th gen i7 and 32 gigs of ddr3

[slender drift]

wait for them to optimise the game

[fresh wyvern]

that might be a contributing factor

[slender drift]

it’s day 1

[fresh wyvern]

gtx 1080 ti tough

gpu

so youd think it would run decently

i get less than 10 fps average

on low graphics

[upbeat basin]

Planet rendering bug. My frames drop to 30 anytime Kerbin is visible.

Look away from Kerbin during a launch to bring the framerate back up for now.

[fresh wyvern]

what is the specific issue that causes this bug and where have you gotten this info?

[upbeat basin]

I'm not sure what the cause could be but I know it's the planet just from how the framerate drop correlates with looking at it.

[fresh wyvern]

oh so it wasnt the devs that specifically pointed out that it was a rendering bug

[trim crystal]

whenever a planet is on-screen, the framerate drops

I've experienced it myself, and have seen it posted many times by others

[fresh wyvern]

this could also mean that the planet ( a big hunk of land) wich would obviously take more to load is loading badly maybe (speculation) due to the game being unoptimized

the devs havent made any announcment

so this is all speculation

[candid sage]

my son is running the game just fine on a 3.5 6core amd with 16 gig ram and a g-force gtx 1060 on medium graphics with very little frame drops under 45fps ... the problem must be what your running in the backround .... i think

[fresh wyvern]

well your son must have ddr4 or ddr5 ram surely, i am running unfortunately an older type of ram and this is surely causing some backlash in performance to me

[fresh wyvern]

also i'm running a 6 year old 4 core cpu, so that is also bottlenecking it for sure

its not a bad system tough

i can run DCS world (flight simulator) just fine at 50-60 ish fps

so i tought i could probably run a less complicated physics engine at at least 30-40 fps

[upbeat basin]

I think it's just graphics code bugs causing slowdowns.

DCS is a very old game with code that has had years of bugfixing.

[boreal hamlet]

And lack of any form of optimization

[fresh wyvern]

well you'd think code like that, wich is actually pretty essential to the rendering of the enviroment would be pretty optimized by now

[boreal hamlet]

• cough cough *

EARLY ACCESS

[fresh wyvern]

• cough cough *

[boreal hamlet]

the game ain’t finished yet maye

[fresh wyvern]

ITS BEEN 3 YEARS

[boreal hamlet]

4

Actually

-ish

I’ve been waiting since 2019. Am I complaining? No, not at all

[fresh wyvern]

i'm not sure what you've been doing these 4 years, maybe sleeping, probably like the devs are, i cant phatom what they have been doing this whole time

[cloud wigeon]

Dude, if you don't like it, just refund it and move on, its an early access game that they are building from the ground up.

[potent elk]

oh nooo, the game that released less then a day ago is a buggy mess! who would of thought a early access game is unoptimized and buggy!

[boreal hamlet]

Nah bro while you’ve been whining to your parents while living in their basement, I’ve been working. So like, I have a life

[fresh wyvern]

yeah, already did, gonna move on after this argument, just really pissed as i was waiting on this game

[upbeat basin]

Planet rendering has always been janky even in KSP 1. You need to gut Unity and hack together a lot of stuff to even have a working sphere shaped world. Now that they have massively increased the polygon count and have much more wildly shaped planets the limits of that code are getting reached.

[cloud wigeon]

whats to argue about then? bye

[fresh wyvern]

the fact they release an unfinished product to the public and writing false statements on what the state of the game should be

pisses me off

[candid sage]

true but they did mention that properly optimizing would come at a later date in there once they have implemented most of the features in there interviews no point in fully optimizing a game when most features are missing risk of breaking the game again after and wasting time re optimizing every thing and like some one said .... its am alpha state ...

[cloud wigeon]

dude its an EARLY ACCESS GAME

have you ever played an early access game?

[fresh wyvern]

WOW, AFTER 3 YEARS OF WAITING

[cloud wigeon]

KSP 1 was in EA for like 7-8 years

[fresh wyvern]

thats crazy, how the game has probably been in development for 5-6 years now

[cloud wigeon]

EA means bugs, glitches, whatever

[upbeat basin]

KSP1 was an even bigger buggy mess in it's early days.

[cloud wigeon]

go play day one release KSP then come back

[candid sage]

yep i remeber them days

[upbeat basin]

Most of that is probably them building frameworks for the new mod system and the huge amount of work needed for multiplayer.

[fresh wyvern]

hello, unfinished product compared to the stuff they told us we would get, like an actually playable experience with a decent user interface and optimization

not the buggy mess we got

[cloud wigeon]

list out all the things that you think they said was going to be available?

[fresh wyvern]

wich comes with a 50 dollar price tag ind you

[candid sage]

dude they literal said it was not going to be finished in there interviews .. did you even watch them ...

[cloud wigeon]

better $50 now then $70 later

It has all these things

[acoustic crag]

you must be a dropout for comparing construction to software development lmao

[fresh wyvern]

so if we were to list out all the things ksp has over ksp 2 i could stay here for hours

[cloud wigeon]

dude, did you honestly them to have everything in ksp 1 in ksp 2?

[upbeat basin]

The development costs are far higher due to all the extra effects and systems being added. KSP2 has a far larger dev team and way more moving parts meaning more labor costs.

[fresh wyvern]

here in the roadmap they posted you would have an improoved user experience, explore revamped kerbolar system, stuff you'd expect to get ON TOP of the feature set of the first game

[cloud wigeon]

ITS A NEW GAME

THESE THINGS TAKE TIME

4 years, 5 years, 10 years sometimes thats how long it takes

[upbeat basin]

The current version has almost all the non DLC parts in it plus the full Kerbol system. So it's already like a more detailed version of KSP1. All it needs is some bug fixing and UI tuning.

[fresh wyvern]

the first game was developed by 1 dude for the first 8 months, not really see how you can compare that to a BIG TEAM of 20+ people working for a multi BILLION dollar company

[cloud wigeon]

you've clearly never played a EA game

you really think PD has the funding of the parent company?

HAHAHAHAHA

[trim crystal]

👍

[upbeat basin]

They scaled the game up to match the bigger budget. So progress will slow due to how long it takes to make all that extra stuff.

[fresh wyvern]

usually the EA games i've played were not developed by big dev teams but by small teams of 1 or maybe 3 people

[acoustic crag]

how do you know they dont have it? do you know how rich take 2 interactive is?

[fresh wyvern]

and are as such expected to be at an unfinished state

[acoustic crag]

expected reply

[cloud wigeon]

Dude trickle down economics don't apply everywhere

[candid sage]

your right but they also said in interviews that they will be moding / fix according to the feed back there getting plus you said it your self ... your running a 4 core on a game meant for min rec of a 6 core what did you expect right off the bat your under the recs ... usually that causes even more bugs since the pross cant even handle the game properly ...

[upbeat basin]

People seem to forget that giant game companies can't give every dev team a bottomless wallet. the KSP2 devs got a large amount of money the work with though.

[fresh wyvern]

so in short they released the game early so they could appease the publisher and then make the game better? Sounds kinda like a scummy cashgrab to me

[trim crystal]

Sure it was 👍

[cloud wigeon]

are you ok?

[upbeat basin]

I think the early release was so they can find all the space kraken bugs faster since players will build larger more complex crafts in huge save files then their internal testing team could ever dream of.

[acoustic crag]

i think with the amount they got, they should have atleast got the physics engine correct for the game

[light fossil]

I sort of agree with Fede, what has PD been doing for the last 3 years

[fresh wyvern]

kinda optimistic

aight bois, had enough for a day, gonna go sleep, gn tho, yall all have valid opinions, wont intrude on them, godspeed

[cloud wigeon]

building a sequal to a big game from the gorund up

[acoustic crag]

and i think its been more than 3 years, 3 years ago they dropped the first trailer right? so they have to have been working on it for some time before it

[light fossil]

yeah but preproduction

[acoustic crag]

ksp 1 is not a big game

[light fossil]

👍

[candid sage]

game engine included ... they completely rebuilt the game engine from the ground up for the game ...

[trim crystal]

They have put a lot of time into developing things that are almost ready. Like Nate said in Scott Manley's interview, it takes much less time to bring something from 0% to 90% than it does to get it from 90% to 100%.

[cloud wigeon]

explain

[light fossil]

maybe

[acoustic crag]

explain how it is a big game

[upbeat basin]

Everyone forgets KSP needs a custom made version of Unity to even work. And now that they are dealing with interstellar distances they need to do even more custom tuning to prevent floating point errors from blowing up your ship as soon as you leave Kerbol.

[cloud wigeon]

build me a physics engine that can handle aerodynamics, gravity, orbits

part interaction

thrust

[light fossil]

oh I didn't know that

thrust is in stock unity

[cloud wigeon]

^

[upbeat basin]

There is a lot of hacky alterations to make the game world a sphere as one example of what they did.

[acoustic crag]

and what do you think the physics engine works in ksp2? also there are atleast 5 other games i can suggest that has working orbital mechanics and physics engine for less than 30$

[boreal hamlet]

Yeah, I know c: Twas just stating the fact. I was a very happy kerbonaut today

[opal plover]

In a way, yes, but you are forgetting that they are updating the game and it cost a lot to produce. If they had to do a delay again the publishers would p shut it down just because they aren't getting enough return on investment,

[cloud wigeon]

Then go play those

[acoustic crag]

you seem like a fanatic lmao

[upbeat basin]

What games exactly?

[light fossil]

that's true

[acoustic crag]

like those of destinies

[cloud wigeon]

and you seem like a troll

[trim crystal]

I was going to say that, but it's not helpful, and they'd just reply with the same venom anyways

[acoustic crag]

i can dm, not msg here, dont want to advertise other things

[upbeat basin]

It's not advertising in this case.

[acoustic crag]

who wouldnt troll a fanatic that is blinded by rage

[trim crystal]

valid

[trim crystal]

I am curious though what your definition of rage is. They didn't even use caps.

[cloud wigeon]

rage?

[light fossil]

maybe everyone here should calm down

[acoustic crag]

if you think caps is the definition of rage, i am sorry

[cloud wigeon]

so let me ask, why are you here?

[acoustic crag]

i was looking at other peoples kraken stuff, then i was just checking all other channels whats going on

[trim crystal]

I think it's best if we let them tire themselves out

[cloud wigeon]

at this point i'm just curious.

[acoustic crag]

and i saw an interesting post here, who was getting hated on by fanatics like you for sharing their opinion

[candid sage]

what made me laugh was the point where he said hes playing on a 4 core .... expecting the game to run as a fully optimized game .....

[cloud wigeon]

"opinion" I'll leave it at that

[cloud wigeon]

especially at EA

[acoustic crag]

its a 50$ EA that was in development for more than 3 years , and its not even a AAA game title

a 50$ game whos most basic concept is broken completely

[trim crystal]

I don't agree with most of your assessment of me, but the original post's wording is what rubbed me the wrong way, and wasn't really anything helpful to the discussion here.

[trim crystal]

I agree that $50 is too much, but I saw it as a long-term investment and to be part of the birth of this new game, however it turns out.

[acoustic crag]

if u want go try RCS on a kerbal, use it to get a projectile motion, and quickly turn off the rcs, tell me if the physics works or not

[light fossil]

they plan to raise the price you know

[acoustic crag]

and if it doesnt, you buy me the game

[light fossil]

maybe they should lower it on release

[cloud wigeon]

I will say, if you are looking at KSP2 as a final product for $50, you don't enjoy playing this game, I purchased it now to play for a long time after purchase

[acoustic crag]

if they lower it now, the ppl that bought it for full price at EA will complain

I only planned to play it for a week before other new games got released, got a problem?

[cloud wigeon]

Report the bug so it can get fixed. Thats the point of EA

[acoustic crag]

why would i report a bug lmao

i am not getting paid to be their beta testers

[cloud wigeon]

because you wanna see the game get better?

[acoustic crag]

i want to see the game better released, not to test their product for them while i pay for it

[cloud wigeon]

Then don't pay for it? Or if you already have refund it and wait

[trim crystal]

Okay, its clear that there are some logical gaps going on here, so imma head out. Hope you all have a nice rest of your day, and stay safe out there.

[acoustic crag]

and you think a hamster is ever going to be an alpha ? lmao

[cloud wigeon]

have fun... I'm out

[acoustic crag]

i never bought it, thats why i asked you to test the physics engine and if i was correct you would buy it for me

[sturdy thistle]

I bought KSP1 when you could count the number of parts on just your hands. Im expecting to play KSP2 for a long time. Im enjoying how broken the game is right now cuz I looked at what state the game was going to be in on release. Im not gonna act like an idiot and be butthurt cuz my expectations are based in the clouds instead of reality.

[acoustic crag]

consider it as you supporting the game twice, since you are a fan of it

[cloud wigeon]

you are right, I am a fan of the game because i thoroughly enjoyed the first game. So why wouldn't i support the sequel?

[trim crystal]

☝️ nudge

[acoustic crag]

because you yourself said its a different game custom made in unity

so how can u be a fan of one game, whose sequel is not the same as the first game ?

[upbeat basin]

3 years of dev time is actually really short for a AAA scale project.

[cloud wigeon]

So? Have fun with that logic.. Peace!

[acoustic crag]

this is not a AAA title

[fading gull]

Yes a short scale for a finished product

[fading gull]

AAA Quality*

[acoustic crag]

i always have fun seeing how fanatics like you react to other ppl opinions and post on their threads defending the game like its your own game

[limber talon]

gamer rage is the worst part about modern gaming culture i stg, and this is a mere example

[acoustic crag]

well then i guess they only worked for 2-3 months for the quality
we are currently getting

[fading gull]

Dude I love all the children who can't type out a response or arguement and just do reactions

[upbeat basin]

We got the game knowing it would have the possibility of being as buggy as KSP1's early days. Early access has the advantage of faster debugging for the devs due to the much more massive testerbase and the players can recommend fixes the devs may have never thought of.

[acoustic crag]

do you know how many people worked on ksp1 team and on ksp 2 team?

and from what i read, according to one post or article, ksp 1 devs were being paid 2400$ usd per Year

[smoky lynx]

@cloud wigeon Hi!

[cloud wigeon]

🤫

[sturdy thistle]

fair enough, im finding theres things i like and dislike about the new ui. Overall I think most of the changes are improvements. As far as the revamped kerboler system it seems like visually it is better but theres a lot of problems actually interacting with it.

[acoustic crag]

so if we are comparing ksp 1 to ksp 2 for its buggy features, why was the price range so drastic, one of the reasons why theres so much negative reviews is because of the price, plus now that i know the physics engine itself doesnt work ingame def the price comes into consideration

[upbeat basin]

KSP2 has a much higher development cost. So the base price has to reflect that.

[acoustic crag]

and also consider the number of ppl working on ksp 1 and ksp 2

[upbeat basin]

Once the game is fully finished it will probably cost 60 to 80 dollars like other triple A style titles. KSP1's price also climbed as more stuff got added to it.

[acoustic crag]

the higher development cost if because there are more members on the team , that means more salaries need to be paid, otherwise like i said before its not a AAA game, and they already have a reference for the code from ksp

[sturdy thistle]

KSP1 was originally one Mexican dudes coding prject. KSP has come a long way since then.

[upbeat basin]

I'm sure some stuff was copied like the orbit system but even that needs to be heavily altered so interstellar distances don't break it. Also new code needs to be made for massive static crafts so colonies can work.

Plus all the code needs to be redone so it can work for multiplayer.

[acoustic crag]

There is no interstellar distances currently in the code

[upbeat basin]

The graphics code was probably refactored from scratch so it can handle high poly count planets and the volumetric clouds.

[upbeat basin]

If you zoom all the way out you will see Kerbol's sphere of influence. So the code is there it's just that we have no other stars to test it with yet.

[acoustic crag]

yeah i cant find more people linked to that project, seems like a very small team like less than 5 max

you know why there is kerbols SOI right?

what do you think will happen when you get out of kerbin's SOI and there is no Kerbols SOI?

[upbeat basin]

You will enter some kind of special interstellar sphere of influence probably.

[acoustic crag]

So you get it why Kerbol's SOI needs to be there before anything interstellar comes out right?

[upbeat basin]

Looks like you can escape Kerbol without breaking anything unlike KSP1. Though without that last timewarp speed it takes forever.

I think KSP1 would break at this distance.

[simple merlin]

Well, I suppose when you look at it in perspective, it did take the Voyager probe almost 45 years to reach past the sun's heliosphere.

[daring crane]

preach

lol

[fading gull]

@cloud wigeon This lo ser said "Peace." 5 hours ago and is still coming back to drop clown reactions. I love these bleeding heart warrior children.

@cloud wigeon 30 or 40 y/o manchild who codes doesnt like me calling him out