6.3 Incorrect Cowrie Investigation

[narrow tangle]

So I'm looking over reports of people who confirmed have all their workshops upgraded and 0 missing materials, but are still getting less cowries than expected

From Kat, I have no explanation for this. The award seems to be correct but the previous season value is wrong and I can't figure out where that number comes from as yet

Also from Kat. This is consistent with the week being calculated normally until the last Shark Oil, which is calculated with 27 groove.

I have no explanation for Silera's 20430 cowries as explained here: #💵︱island-chat message C3 was worth 3870, combined with the 195 from the necklaces on C4 and the 20430 cowries they collected, that adds up to 24495, not 24366, so the display is wrong.

Additionally, the amount we were supposed to make from the Spruce Round Shields on is 20,526, so the calculation is wrong

From feyii, another person with full screenshots also lines up with groove being weird and ending in 27 for the sharks

[narrow tangle]

One thing is that it seems to be related that no one had this issue on Season 26, where we rested C7

[floral drum]

I last checked my Island on C4 of Season 27, after 1 round of Necklaces were complete but before the first shields were complete.
My "previous Season" information shows that I made 24366 Cowries, which is 225 cowries short of the prediction.
I received 20430 Cowries when checking this morning, which is 96 cowries short of how much I should have made over C4/5/6/7.
So either I lost 129 cowries on C2/C3, or the display is broken AND the math is broken, both in different ways.

[narrow tangle]

At the moment, I find it unlikely that the values are being calculated incorrectly within the season

So my money is on both things being wrong differently 🙃

[floral drum]

I agree.

[narrow tangle]

I will admit to double-checking that the value couldn't be accounted for by a workshop being level 2

[floral drum]

Just to 110% cover our asses here: Our confidence level that our own calculations on how many Cowries we should have made is 100%? We've manually verified our bots Math on that?

[narrow tangle]

I'm not even using the bot here

But yes

I figured out the exact cowrie formula in week 1 and it has never, ever, ever, ever been wrong

Not even once

[floral drum]

👍 I didn't doubt it, I just wanted to make sure someone didn't add a random 5 to a spreadsheet on accident andd cuase our math to be wrong or somethin'.

[narrow tangle]

Plenty of people got the correct number this week, myself included (okay, I got a different number than y'all but it's the same number the bot calculated for me)

To be clear, it's a fair question

But the bot and my spreadsheet and my island all agree

[quartz folio]

just want to chime in here - it doesn't even matter if someone follows the recommendations or not or if everything is upgraded to max. if you have multiple characters with the island and all of them have the same island upgrade status and do the same schedules, they should get the same amount of cowries over the season.

[narrow tangle]

Correct

It's just harder to verify because I'd need a schedule for those people and to set up a custom island state for them to check values against

Where if you followed recs, I know your schedule and I have my calculator state set up

[quartz folio]

yeah, true

[narrow tangle]

The calculator state

That's what it's supposed to look like for a normal island

[quartz folio]

for the record, in season 17, all 3 of my characters had the bug. but two of them were affected more than the third one. and those two were affected by the same amount. I wondered back then if it was related to when I checked the taskmaster on C7. because for the two with the higher missing amount, I checked in while the second craft was in progress, for the third one while the third craft was in progress. that certainly would speak for the groove getting messed up after talking to the taskmaster.

however, after that week I didn't talk to the taskmaster on C7 at all and still got the bug on at least one character. not sure what to make of that.

oh, wait. that does make sense. if it is only guaranteed to be the correct groove, until the point you check the taskmaster, then not checking it would increase the chance for the higher amounts of missing cowries

[narrow tangle]

That's my working theory that at least draws a line between two points

Everything that you check during the week should be correct. It's only after the week ends that things seem to get weird.

[zenith agate]

Reminder for anyone following this thread to take photos

[exotic tree]

this was last week, everything was set up and good to go, last talked to the mammet on the march 4th at 1124pm est to get the cycle screenshots

the amount i received for cycle 6/7

[twilit barn]

sadly cant provide more screenshots, but im 100% sure that my workshop was set correctly. i checked yesterday and there were the last 2 crafts still going (bed and hat) and i was at around 24k cowries for current season

[ocean bough]

for the sake of data keeping, both are Fine™️ everything matches #1034980228205920266 perfectly, despite it being nearly the exact same circumstances. last season i checked literally the hour before reset and watched it tick over, these were at about 9pm est, right when Hat started

[quartz folio]

I was also lucky this week and didn't get the bug on any character. haven't updated this yet for C7 season 28, but I'll document my earnings for a while here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-PmTez-TpIdqCycqvmLw7CGH7a8SxBjp9CGzgTED4vQ/edit?usp=sharing

[tall fox]

I'm ~400 short this week and was correct as of yesterday afternoon

[narrow tangle]

You are also a victim of the 27 groove gang

[tall fox]

not sure I follow how that happens?

[narrow tangle]

The game has a bug

[tall fox]

ah

[narrow tangle]

idk more than that

[tall fox]

I mean, I'm not complaining, it's still my personal best week even with that shortfall

[ocean bough]

ye my first proof of the bug had the same thing happen, inexplicable 27 groove only on the last craft

[narrow tangle]

It's the only shortfall I've managed to mathematically account for

[tall fox]

that's helpful for a bug report to SE though

[narrow tangle]

The material allocation window screenshot will really help for next time

[exotic tree]

sadly i forgot that one and only had the one from the day before

figured, hey its all correct i dont need it xD

[narrow tangle]

But yeah, it's so odd because there are clearly multiple expressions of it

27 groove gang is fairly minor. Welgar last checked at the same time as KiltedYaksman but only got 1899 for two whole rows of crafts

[tall fox]

1899 seems really low for those crafts

that's way beyond a groove diff

[narrow tangle]

I can't account for it by removing crafts or downgrading workshops or anything.

[tall fox]

I'm assuming you mean can't?

[narrow tangle]

My keyboard is very unreliable

[tall fox]

that's ok, so is my brain in the morning 🙂

speaking of, I could go for more coffee

how did you come up with the groove calculation btw? Looking at that sudden groove drop you have in your spreadsheet there is... oddly specific

[narrow tangle]

It was a small difference so I typed numbers until the right one popped out

[tall fox]

good old brute forcing 🙂

[narrow tangle]

It's very fast to just binary search through 35 numbers

[tall fox]

this is true

[zenith agate]

that is significantly less screenshots than needed for proof :X

[iron slate]

Lowest mat is at 5, so there's a 0% chance this is an insuf materials issue

I also know for a fact I input C5 and 6 correctly.

[zenith agate]

no receipts?

[iron slate]

This is the best I have, since I set them, during C4, and I know I didn't set them that late

Oh wait, I set them at reset

So I lost 2.3k for literally no reason

inb4 we actually have fake info later in the season that we just don't know about

But that would be disproven if one person got the 28k

[zenith agate]

we wouldn't have other people getting correct numbers if that were the case.

which we do

[zenith agate]

like me.

[iron slate]

Which really sucks cuz I WANTED THE HIGHEST RECORDED

Fix your broken ass game, SE

I'm really miffed about this :/

[zenith agate]

guess you can join us in taking all the necessary photo proof this week :X

[iron slate]

Not what I wanted to wake up to

I don't even feel like playing 6.35 now. Island Sanc has done nothing but piss me off since 6.3

[tall fox]

I got the 28k w/ 400 short but Mienna has an explanation for that

[narrow tangle]

That’s giving me a little too much credit

[zenith agate]

or rather a theory. we need proof

[narrow tangle]

I have some numbers

[tall fox]

@zenith agate the numbers work out?

[zenith agate]

ok? you have no screenshots of your week to rule out human error

[narrow tangle]

Human error wouldn’t really account for such a small difference

[tall fox]

@zenith agate I looked at the numbers halfway through yesterday, every single day matched up

there is no way just the last craft would explain a 400 shortfall

[zenith agate]

square is going to ignore it if we go "trust me bro I did it right"

[narrow tangle]

It’s very likely the groove thing, but idk why that’s happening to some people and I have no idea why worse things are happening to other people

[tall fox]

well, I had no reason to take screenshots because I have literally never been bitten by it until now

also I was out of town thurs-sat so I couldn't have those days if I wanted to

[zenith agate]

actually...

[narrow tangle]

I mean, there’s nothing you can screenshot on Thursday at you can’t screenshot on Sunday

[zenith agate]

you absolutely could have taken a pic of your agenda

[tall fox]

I mean, fair

but like I said, I did look at the daily numbers up through halfway through yesterday and everything matched up with Archive to that point

[narrow tangle]

The point is he didn’t know it was going to happen to him so he didn’t take any screenshots and that’s fine. I didn’t either, lol.

[tall fox]

sorry I don't have shots, but...

so whatever caused the mismatch would have to have been on C7

[narrow tangle]

I won’t help us convince Squeenix there’s a bug but it’s a data point toward one expression of it

[tall fox]

can also safely say my material allocations were complete

[zenith agate]

It’s nothing personal. We just can’t prove the difference between the bug and a mistake without photos

[tall fox]

I understand

but I gave all the data I could including what the mammet gave me as a final amount this morning

[narrow tangle]

We prefer the complete info but what you have was still helpful

[tall fox]

nod

will do that this coming week in case it hits me again but... like I said, first time it's happened the entire time I've played

[zenith agate]

It hasn’t happened to me at all…I’m just trying to help :X

[tall fox]

not sure if that's in and of itself a useful data point

like, are the people who report it happening seeing it frequently or is it one offs for a lot of people?

[zenith agate]

Without photos we mostly can’t tell

Oh sorry misread that

[tall fox]

was gonna say...

[zenith agate]

As far as I know we have one confirmed repeat

[narrow tangle]

It does seem like it happens to people repeatedly

[tall fox]

like, do we know of anybody that's a repeat offender, so to speak

ah

[narrow tangle]

Just sort of anecdotally

[tall fox]

hm

makes me half wonder if maybe something gets out of whack state-wise on their end and then stays that way

[zenith agate]

The only person to bring the receipts so far is Kat basically.

[tall fox]

one thing I unfortunately don't have the numbers for is whether it's just reported or actual that's incorrect

I have no idea what my cowries were at start of last season

[stoic veldt]

I took screenshots this week, but the issue has not happened to me so they're kinda useless

[zenith agate]

Same.

[tall fox]

I think we did have one person who confirmed it was only a presentation issue for them though?

like, previous season total said one thing but the amount said another

[zenith agate]

Ish.

[narrow tangle]

Last season total has been wrong for folks, yes

[zenith agate]

Anyway feel free to start taking pics as described in the question channel pins

Or don’t.

[tall fox]

I will

for that matter, just to have it on record, blue cowries as of right now: 125,218 (-300 / day)

also to have it on record, I hate tinsand 😛

iirc the two island challenge logs are 1k blue each? (living off the land and whatever the other one was called)

[mellow drum]

Yes, that's right

[tall fox]

k, will need to remember that for accounting

[mellow drum]

And you can do all the "daily" screenshots on C7 through the review earnings screen. C7 seems to be the culprit, so the extra screenshots verify that it didn't happen prior to that.

I took all my screenshots yesterday during the second to last craft.

[tall fox]

yeah, I was planning to

nothing to screenshot now anyways other than mat allocations being complete

[mellow drum]

I've been wondering if there's a pattern to when people last accessed the island affecting it, but you accessed it yesterday and were affected while Djinni and I also checked it yesterday and were not affected.

[tall fox]

possibly, biggest problem is I don't have the numbers to confirm if it's just previous season total lying to me or if I actually got shorted

this time I've got my starting cowries on record, and I'll avoid buying anything rest of week

[mellow drum]

Just remember the deductions for mammet care and granaries, unless you've already set that for the week and aren't touching it

[mellow drum]

Hopefully it's just the total lying and you weren't shorted, but it still hurts not to see that record high score up there. 😦

[tall fox]

🤞 I mean, it's still my new record because I wasn't around for S2 here

[zenith agate]

It’ll show up as a separate entry

But if you are tracking the total, then yea you’ll need to keep track of that and auto cost + granary cost

[tall fox]

I only bring them up because they'll need to be taken into account when comparing starting and ending actual cowries (for checking if the amount from crafts is correct)

yeah, what you said

[floral drum]

Cowries were correct for me this week

[brittle birch]

Evidently my last week was majorly off somehow?

[mellow drum]

About 5400 off, which is basically a whole day. If you didn't take screenshots, though, there's no way to tell what happened.

[brittle birch]

Yea...

Wasn't sure if that was a "normal" bug.

But also possible I just messed it up

[mellow drum]

Not a bug at all unless you have screenshots showing that the numbers don't match what it should be. Without that we have to assume user error, sorry.

[brittle birch]

Totally fair

I didn't realize bugs were a thing around this until yesterday and it was too late to prep

[mellow drum]

The only one that seems to have been isolated is that some people are getting less than the full groove bonus for the last craft on C7, which reduced their total by around 400 cowries this past week.

[narrow tangle]

@ocean bough @quartz folio Do either of you want to report this bug on the square enix forums? I don't know how likely it is to help but those certainly seem to get read and y'all have solid proof

[ocean bough]

i can ye o7 i'll include all my screenshots from when i first recorded it

[narrow tangle]

The other super helpful part of that is you can say you got different values for the same schedule on different characters

Which is obviously wrong

[ocean bough]

actually. looking at my imgur stats for the uploads:

they have been looked at

bc i've done most of my viewings from just. the raw file i uploaded to my personal server

still gonna post it to the forum regardless

[quartz folio]

if you start a bug post, I could add information and screenshots as well

better than have multiple posts to the same topic, I guess.

[quartz folio]

ok, I found kats forum post and added links to my own screenshots and documentation to it.

[trail rapids]

From what I can see, my numbers for Cycle 2 are already different.. I'm going to keep an eye on this, now that I know there's something going on.

[quartz folio]

getting a higher than expected value for C2 is not unusual. we might have hit a prepeak with earrings or a strong ear cuffs peak (while weak was assumed) that wasn't known when the bot calculated the cowries

[narrow tangle]

4605 is correct for C2. Earrings are a 6/7 peak so the first 3 we made were Insufficient.

Higher numbers are almost always that

[narrow tangle]

Check against #1034980228205920266, not #🦜︱recommendations. It should have the correct value

[ocean bough]

sorry, shoulda posted the forum link here too XD would have made it easier for you

[quartz folio]

don't worry 🙂 it was easy enough to find, since it was the topmost post

[tall fox]

yesterday matches so far...

[zenith agate]

I'd hope so, else we'd have a new bug.

[tall fox]

are the confirmed reports only for C7?

I thought there were others that were drastically further off

[ocean bough]

yea all of our confirmed stuff has been c7

[zenith agate]

which is why we need to go through all this effort. if other days were off, it would be very easy to see.

"look at review earnings, oh look this number is low, that's weird"

but because it's a c7/new season bug we can't review earnings

[tall fox]

got it

[narrow tangle]

Yeah, we have never seen an unexplainable discrepancy between expected and intended cowries during the week. It's always been some kind of user error

But we need those screenshots from earlier in the week so that we can prove there's no discrepancy or user error in the setup

But yeah, we've only seen issues collecting the week after, not during the week

[tall fox]

nod

the wildly different numbers people are missing had me wondering

[stoic veldt]

It's entirely possible that some of those are caused by user error, rather than the apparent bug - but there's no way to tell without screenshots

[zenith agate]

oh right time to take some screenshots I guess

...actually tomorrow seems like less math/work if I do get bugged

[mellow drum]

Didn't you do it C7 last week? You'd have everything but the last but that you earn for the balance of that cycle.

I messed up a day this week and missed a craft, so my numbers will be off. I guess I can still check it for the specific C7 bug, though.

[zenith agate]

I did, but there's some value to having players take their photos and then not touch the mammet for different numbers of cycles

so since tomorrow is rest, I'll just take the photos mid day tomorrow

[narrow tangle]

We're doing a 5-craft on C6, so you should still end C6 with 35 groove

So your C7 values should be identical

So it'd still be useful

[mellow drum]

Sounds good.

[iron slate]

I got mine ready. Followed recs to a T, ain't no fucking way my second rug can be not identical to the first

[tall fox]

think that should be everything needed for night before, so far everything matches up...

[zenith agate]

We don’t need every participating member to post their pics here unless they’re actually affected.

Inb4 you get the bug tonight and are an actual clairvoyant

[tall fox]

well, I got hit last week, so...

I can always delete my message if I'm fine tomorrow

[iron slate]

I'll get mine sometime before I go to bed.

[zenith agate]

unless we should all just be posting our own pic logs and I'm wrong?

[iron slate]

Okay well I was affected for two seasons, so

[narrow tangle]

Yeah, we really only need posts from people who have the bug but nbd. We can delete later

[iron slate]

Well I won't know til S30 kicks in

I have no clue where it happened last season cuz I collected C5-7 all on S29

[narrow tangle]

The idea being you could wait to post until S30

[iron slate]

I can delete it after, I just wanted it stored somewhere

(esp with my HDD crashing, and idk if that'll affect anything vital on my PC at this point)

((no, XIV is on the SSD but just in case))

[quartz folio]

I just saw the bug post in the forums was moved to the "insufficient information" subforum :/

[iron slate]

Edit: I have a better excuse why I posted: I've been awake for like 22~23h.
didn't even realize that til now

[iron slate]

Of course the week that's not the biggest record, it works fine

🖕 heck you SE >:(

[opal tinsel]

This week was much closer to expected than previous weeks, but it's still a little bit short of the calculation it seems.

[quartz folio]

that certainly looks like the bug, since verything else matches

[tall fox]

Deleted my post, this week's total matched

[twilit barn]

alright, bug reporting time

i will post both my alt and my main. my alt was correct, my main is short

this is my alt

this is my main

this is what my main has for previous season

[narrow tangle]

Do you have a screenshot of the actual notification of how many cowries you got?

From the text log is also fine if you have that

The previous season number is known to be wrong sometimes

[twilit barn]

do you know what option in log filters that is? it actually doesnt show

[narrow tangle]

Uhhh, system messages? Maybe?

[twilit barn]

i have them enabled and tried some others. might it be that TidyChat filtered that out?

[ocean bough]

yea tidychat probably filtered it. turn that off and it might pop back up

[twilit barn]

nope, it gone guess have to keep this in mind now for next week

[trail rapids]

I was unable to get pictures of C6 and C7, my C2, C3 & C4 matched last week.. but my total only came to 24,906, so something happened in the last 2 days..

They could just help this whole thing by letting us view the last season again..

[zenith agate]

"they" don't know/think there's a bug. hence this work.

shame you missed the photos. we can't prove it isn't human error without them.

[narrow tangle]

Yeah, you’re missing photos of the thing that actually went wrong so there’s no data here

[narrow tangle]

Why do you say “unable” though? You should’ve been able to get the screenshots of the schedule at the same time you got the screenshots you took.

[ocean bough]

i assume the screenshots were taken sometime c5

[zenith agate]

which still means they could have taken photos of the remaining agendas to prove no human error.

that's what I did 🤷

[ocean bough]

fair

[zenith agate]

and then compared the cowries picked up today to the expected totals for those two days

[narrow tangle]

Yeah, steps 2-4 are the critical ones. 1-3 are at the same time during the season, then 4 is next season

[zenith agate]

at least we got one set of complete photos with the bug from Fraa Carmelo at least?

or at least a quick glance makes it seem like it's all there

yea I see no human error, just the wrong final number. looks solid.

so I guess we're +1 confirmed proof from season 29. could be worse.

[ocean bough]

main's all normal, hopping to alt to check there

aaand so is alt. welp

[quartz folio]

for me, all 3 chars are normal this week

[tall fox]

(un)fortunately, mine was normal this week, so no help here :/

[trail rapids]

Once I input the final few days of the recs, I just leave it alone because I don't need to revisit the island to input daily.

I'm going to stop reporting though, since I can never seem to get it right.

[tall fox]

all you really need for this is one more visit on Monday to get screencaps of cycles 1-6

we just need that much detail to persuade SE that there is an actual bug

[narrow tangle]

You don’t need another visit

You just need to screenshot the schedules for the rest of the week and the material allocation window

[tall fox]

I thought the visit on monday so you can provide evidence the accumulated totals for those days are correct?

[narrow tangle]

That’s what the earnings reports are for

[tall fox]

that's what I meant

[narrow tangle]

To be totally honest, we only need one day of earnings reports to match to prove your island is set up correctly

[tall fox]

since on monday you have the day-by-day earnings report for all of the rest of the week

[narrow tangle]

But we need the others to make sure the schedule is right

So we know you didn’t mess up supply of anything

We don’t need every day to match. If one day matches in value and the schedules for every day match, the value should match.

So we need every day’s schedule but only one day’s earnings report. It’s just easier to screenshot an earnings report for a past day than a schedule

One screenshot vs 2

[exotic tree]

I've had this bug like 4 weeks in a row doing everything right, well only noticed it the last 4 weeks as i only first saw it when i was out by a large amount...but this week it worked perfectly......

i was starting to think i was something related to it fucking up if you dont check it for a few days. but the fact it worked this week is a head scratcher

[zenith agate]

Reminder

today is the last day you can take photos for season 30 to prove you don't have human error

[twilit barn]

Alright, this time my alt was scuffed and my main was correct. i should have the needed screenshots

this is my alt

this is my main

my alt is 696 cowries short

[zenith agate]

...where's the rest of the week?

the "needed screenshots" include the earning reports for earlier days, the ones that prove the entire season matches recs and had no issues, so square enix can't go "human error not our problem ¯_(ツ)_/¯ "

[twilit barn]

my main having matching earnings with archive should be proof that i did it correctly. you can also see that my alt got less cowries for the same crafts

the math adds up

also im 100% sure someone told me that those screenshots are also enough, since you can just math it out if it should be correct. and you can see what i actually got

[zenith agate]

you can see the pin in the main channel to see what we consider "enough"

and it involves earnings reports or agendas for the entire week

and it's not about what we'll believe, it's about what square enix's support will...

[twilit barn]

yes, and the last time i didnt have the cowries i got at C1, where someone told me that one screenshot from the earlier week + cowries gotten from C1 are enough

last time i provided everything, except the gained cowries on C1. so that shows that i did it correctly, and im doing this since day 1.
you can literally math out with the new screenshots if anything is iffy

[stoic veldt]

It's less about us considering it enough and more about giving a complete picture to Square Enix

[twilit barn]

i. know.

[zenith agate]

square enix looks at the above photos and goes "you must have entered something different earlier in the cycle or season that there's no screenshot of"

[twilit barn]

the pictures STILL show that somethings not right

[stark bluff]

Took all the images last week, no issue. Didn't take any this week ☠️ Ended up with 24363, instead of 24399 🤷‍♂️ So only 36 diff, but weird.

[zenith agate]

though the times and cowries collected SHOULD still prove something is up, and would to us

[narrow tangle]

You don't have any screenshots from earlier in the week though. There aren't any earnings reports

But the fact that you have two characters, one is right, and the difference between them is accounted for in the difference between what you got on C1 is enough for me to fill in the blanks

But Djinni makes a good point that it's probably better to get screenshots to convince Squeenix rather than to convince me

[zenith agate]

oh yea, the ones they have convince me plenty

696 cowries difference on the "you obtained" message, same difference on the season, pics of the same remaining agenda, plenty convincing

hell, you might as well post on one of the bug report threads with it, maybe they'll accept it

[narrow tangle]

If we keep spamming them with reports they might have to accept that something is wrong

[ocean bough]

main and alt are all normal this week, even displaying previous season correctly >_>

[twilit barn]

im fully aware that i could have taken pictures of every single agenda, but there is still no way of really proving that they are all connected to the same character anyway. the massive amount of reports from other players + my screenshots that show something is not right (even if there is information missing here and there) should be enough to warrant SE to believe there is something wrong

at least if they would actually care. because if all these reports arent enough, they simply dont

[zenith agate]

I think you may be overestimating the number of reports that have actually gone to square enix

or I'm underestimating

[quartz folio]

I got the bug again this week, different character though, than last time (also to be seen here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-PmTez-TpIdqCycqvmLw7CGH7a8SxBjp9CGzgTED4vQ/edit?usp=sharing).

as for reports to SE, as mentioned earlier, they basically closed the previous report in the forums because of "insufficient information. please try again, if it continues to happen...". sounds to me like, if we can't figure out how to reproduce it consistently, they won't even look at it. or more people need to report it

[ocean bough]

:/

[stoic veldt]

Labelling it as insufficient information without stating what more information is required is very lazy. It's basically saying "I can't be bothered to look into this".

[twilit barn]

they can somehow look back at chatlogs and activity in duties when you report someone for griefing etc.
so they cant tell me with a straight face that they cant just load up your character and look what happened a few days before with the island. thats what i mean with "no amount of proof will be enough if they just dont want to look at it right now"

[narrow tangle]

They've only gotten two reports that I'm aware of. It's not like they're following this thread.

[twilit barn]

on the forums?

[narrow tangle]

Yeah

Or through their bug reporting system

[twilit barn]

i know they have forums for EU, NA and JP. only 2 in total?

[narrow tangle]

That's the number I'm aware of

[twilit barn]

that would explain why they dont see the issue

[narrow tangle]

I have 0 insight into the JP community

Or any other languages

But yeah, that's why we're trying to be comprehensive with screenshots

[twilit barn]

didnt we have connections through some players to JP?

[narrow tangle]

We have at least one person here playing on a Korean or Chinese client (I think Chinese?), but I don't think we have any regulars here who are part of the Japanese IS community

[quartz folio]

totally agree. I wanted to ask what other information they need from us, so we could look for it specifically, but it's not even possible to post anymore

[quartz folio]

I have gone ahead and created a new bug report in the forum. let's see what comes of it

[twilit barn]

is this enough for "i crafted this on cycle 2", or should i take a shot of the actual finished agenda with "shipped" on them too?

ah, thinking about it, i just take the shots. before they close the forum post because "we cant say if you crafted it in the same order"

[zenith agate]

You can look at the pin in the question channel for what Mienna needs.

Earnings reports are enough

[twilit barn]

i have read the pin

but i just wanted to make sure, im gonna take the shots of the actual agenda too

[zenith agate]

Do what you like, but the earnings report with the correct total is enough to prove you followed the recs

[dreamy laurel]

C7 income and total

c7 schedule

[quartz folio]

how much of the C7 total did you collect on C7 already?

[dreamy laurel]

0

[quartz folio]

so 2613 cowries is all you got? wow, that's really low

[dreamy laurel]

yes

and my total income should be 25890, it doesn't match, either

[quartz folio]

I guess your total matches what you actually got. if I added your C7 cowries to my season total on C6 I would also end up at 23k

[dreamy laurel]

maybe. just report the bug for you to gather information, if you need

[tough moon]

I got the bug last season on C7. All other days were identical to bot predictions. I had all resources i needed for craft at the start of the C7.

[narrow tangle]

Just saying that the bug happened to you is not particularly helpful. We’re positive it exists but need to convince square enix. Feel free to make a bug report on the official forums.

[tough moon]

I also got this bug on some older seasons. Same as here: got all resources and all other days had same results as bot.
Screens are: S27 C3, S29 C2, S29 C3

[narrow tangle]

Please only post here if you have all the screenshots requested in the pin in #💵︱island-chat. We cannot prove the bug is happening to you otherwise. Making a bug report post on the official forums might drum up some more Squeenix interest in fixing this thing.

[twilit barn]

Alright, screenshot dump again, this time i should really have everything. i didnt switch the brush for clam when the rec changed because i cba to do that, but it shouldnt warrant a difference since my alt and main have the same stuff

these are the agendas of my alt

these are the earnings reviews including the results today, of my alt

now my main

agendas of my main

earning reviews including result from today, of my main

the brush instead of the clam obviously did a bit less than the result of the archive, but both characters had the same earning when i took the screenshots of 21699 Cowries. Checking todays endresult, my alt made 25683 total and my main 25845

[quartz folio]

I got hit twice in season 31. but to different degrees, even though I checked all my characters on C7 during the same production window. for reference, I did Earrings-EarCuffs-Earrings-EarCuffs on C6, that's why the not bugged character has a slightly higher season total. This would also be the expected total for the bugged characters.
Not bugged first:

bugged character number 1 (just missing 30 cowries):

bugged character number 2 (missing 2109 cowries):

I'm really starting to think the mammets are wasting the materials on C7 and then might not have enough to complete a craft ... at least when there is such a huge difference.

[narrow tangle]

It just

The math doesn't work out for losing a craft

It's baffling

[tall fox]

I'm assuming doesn't work out for groove weirdness either

like that time it was like I was locked at groove 29 for a craft

[twilit barn]

what did caramels ship for?

its a 162 cowries difference, but it couldnt have been the honey, thats 105 per craft

did it maybe swallow a single caramels while rolling over to C1?

[zenith agate]

the "why" isn't so important tbh

I just got here so I've not actually looked, but it seems y'all managed to get two full sets of screenshots this time of the bug happening, so that's good!

go throw that stuff at the bug report forum

[iron slate]

I'm gonna make sure I have more mats this time cuz I wouldn't be surprised if this was the issue.

FT alt worked perfectly, his mats are fine.
Main lost and his mats are fucked

[stoic veldt]

A lot of the numbers don't make sense with simply missing crafts, but it's an idea we could look at

[stoic veldt]

Feyii's middle character had plenty of mats and still lost some cowries, while the unaffected was low on sap, so not sure it's (entirely) mats either

[zenith agate]

I didn't notice any issues with low materials, nor have i noticed any issues now that I've stocked up.

not that it matters much

I could theoretically export down to low mat numbers again but heck that

[tall fox]

I haven't managed to reproduce it again since the one week I got hit :/

about the only consolation that time was that Mienna managed to find a math reason for it to be wrong

[zenith agate]

all that matters is evidence collection at this point. SE is better equipped to be figuring out the "why"

[tall fox]

this is true though "the numbers add up as if c7 got stuck at groove 29" might be more specific for narrowing down a bug

sadly that specific one doesn't seem to be universal

[zenith agate]

sure if we can do their job for them and figure out how it happens that's great and all, but proving the bug exists to square is the point of this thread

[tall fox]

I realize

[narrow tangle]

Honestly, I want to close the thread. At this point there’s been no common thread among folks as to why it triggers or what exactly is happening

And I worry that people reporting it here gives people a false sense of having reported it for real

So unless someone has a compelling reason to do otherwise, I think I’m gonna close this thread shortly. I already changed the pin telling folks to report to Squeenix

[zenith agate]

🇫

[iron slate]

But they keep just saying it's insufficient info, so like, what do we do?

[narrow tangle]

What do you mean? There’s been one post, right?

[stoic veldt]

Two, the second has not been moved or received an official reply yet: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/480190-Island-Sanctuary-Cowries-earned-on-Cycle-7-incorrect

[iron slate]

My point is just until they fix this, it feels broken

There's other aspects of IS that feel beyond broken (imposters existing at all feel broken), but it's like, I don't wanna just stop and "give up"

and most people (as evidenced earlier in this thread) don't quite understand the level of info SE is gonna expect to 100% confirm it's not just human error (which is the case of like 95% of questions in #💵︱island-chat)

TL;DR: It feels like we're giving up, idk

Maybe I'm crazy

[stoic veldt]

I think Mienna's point was people need to report this to Square, not in this thread. Unless Square are flooded with evidence, they will assume it is user error. So now the pin says report it on the forum instead of in this thread. We can't do anything with it except crunch numbers, and some of them make no sense at all (e.g. there's no logical way to get a 30 cowrie loss), so even that feels useless.

[iron slate]

Yeah but they need to report it correctly

and I felt like this thread was to push people to do just that

If you show a screencap of one day, they're gonna be like "you fucked up earlier in the week kekw"

[stoic veldt]

Hmm, I found a way to get a 30 cowrie discrepancy - start the last caramels with 33 groove instead of 35. Huh.

[narrow tangle]

I think “hey, we’re getting like a dozen people every week who say their numbers are wrong without full proof” plus “we have a couple people who have full proof so we can’t ignore all those people” is powerful

Instead of “two people said something’s wrong”

[narrow tangle]

I don’t really see why. I feel like we’re mobilizing. Now is the time to storm the castle.

I can’t solve the problem for them, which I wanted to

But we can make them deal with us

[zenith agate]

if the two people affected from the season that just ended haven't posted yet, that's an issue too

[quartz folio]

but maybe instead of making 2 for efficient crafts, they only make one? the character who ended up with only 2.9k for C7 is missing a little more than half of what he should have gotten on C7. that got me the idea that maybe the efficiency bonus was lost and a little groove as well, to make up for the rest. but I don't really have the number to do the maths and see if that would actually make sense

• discord dropped me in the middle of the conversation, and I thought that was the end already....

and just for the record, the bug report I put in the forum last week and updated this week, is still open. so I guess that's at least a good sign, for now

[zenith agate]

Yes. that’s the point I’ve been harping on for days. We just need people to take all the needed screenshots and send them to square. We don’t need to theorycraft what is breaking, nor why it’s breaking. It’s not accomplishing anything at this point, it’s not consistent.

So again, hopefully the two people with the screenshots above will post it to the forums.

I could see this thread having a purpose of people bringing screenshots here if they’re not sure if they’re bugged or not, if they have some sort of variation to their schedule. But that’s it.

[quartz folio]

and now it's moved to insufficient information, like the report from kat :/ and again without giving any hint to what information they are missing, even though I explicitly asked for feedback in that regard. I wouldn't be surprised if it is just a "can't reproduce on demand"

[quartz folio]

@stoic veldt thanks for adding the calculations to the bug post, even though it is now closed. with those, I was able to get to my 2994 earnings - and my guess proved right. if the in-progress caramels only got 33 grove and also lost the efficiency bonus (for this and all following crafts), groove would stay at 33 for all remaining crafts. so it shipped only half of the remaining items and all with 33 grove. with that I got to exactly 2994 as the final result.
one more bit of information to throw at SE. but I guess more bug posts would help.

[stoic veldt]

No problem! Glad you were able to make the 2994, even though that sounds totally broken!

[quartz folio]

it is. but still, the most annoying thing is, that noone has a clue what's causing it.

[iron slate]

Try asking them for it

Like idk what else to do

They're just gonna keep flagging it

I am curious if the lower mats theory is true though

Like I have 12 sap rn, and need 9 for the season, gonna bump that up to 18 just to be safe

[tall fox]

didn't we already use up the sap today?

this seems to only really affect C7 from what everyone's seen to date

paprika/growth formula don't use sap iirc

[stoic veldt]

I'm curious if visiting the mammet after midnight Japan time causes it to consider the accumulated groove not part of this season (so it uses the previous value on C1 instead), or something stupid like that. There has to be a reason this only happens on C7's schedule.

Either that or they have interns calculating this with spreadsheets...

[quartz folio]

big news, I just got an answer to the forum bug report in-game via the support desk, in which they request me to supply further information!

time to upload full screenshots

[iron slate]

Holy shit a RESPONSE?

[quartz folio]

yeah! I can't believe it myself, but it's there!

somehow that makes me really happy, right now

[tall fox]

FINALLY

[zenith agate]

reminder that due to 24 hour patch, today is the last day for pics for this season

[dreamy laurel]

bug came again

forgot to screenshot the material page

[stoic veldt]

Please make sure you report this to Square Enix as well (either in-game or via the forum)

It's interesting though because you obviously didn't visit the island on C7

[dreamy laurel]

yes, didn't log out on island, either

[quartz folio]

not visiting the island on C7 just makes the potential cowrie loss higher. but with patch maintenance yesterday, there was literally no time to visit the island C7 after even the first craft had finished.

for the record, in the support desk mail I received from SE regarding the bug report, they did request that I upload all my related screenshots somewhere and send it to them via the ingame bug report function. which I did and I also included in my answer what we already discovered was happening (the groove loss and in the extreme case also the efficiency loss). they are looking at it, and I guess sending them more examples might be helpful.

[tall fox]

bleh, of course the week I didn't take screenshots I get hit

26481 rather than 26625

[lost sky]

I also got hit by the bug again. Same numbers as pyruspyrus. I didn't take screenshots, but I checked in on C6 because it was a rest day and all of the daily totals matched the rec estimates. Logged in today and only got 4998 for C7 with a total of 25707.

[steady cave]

I'm not quite at level 11 yet, so I've not been executing the optimal "solution" that's computed for the level 11 folks. I have done spot checks on some of the daily totals when I was able to do the optimal solution and had the right groove number, and they've always matched the predicted numbers. I'll start keeping better track of it once I hit level 11.

In doing research and learning about the island (that's how I found you folks here), I did come across comments on a couple sites or reddits (which I cannot find right now) that did mention potential problems if you're actually on your island at morning reset. The theory is that there's a race condition that has to do with what's being done on your instanced island and the back-end computations where everyone's numbers are being updated for the cycle. It's also hypothesized that there's an irregularity in computations done where shell deductions are made for auto-maintenance on the pasture or farm at the same time the workshop numbers are updated, while you're actually present on the island. It's alleged that being present on the island "changes the order" of some computations and there's a bug that results in different amounts of shells being logged when you next check the workshop.

This is all theory, but being a comp-sci geek who's had to track down race conditions in the past, I can attest to them being very difficult to find and incredibly annoying to correct programmatically (can anyone say "database row locking with circular dependencies?" Yeah... don't go there.).

[quartz folio]

I have tried both in the past - being on the island and not being on the island. the bug happened in either case for me

[tall fox]

^

as far as everybody here's been able to tell, being on the island or not is irrelevant

also the numbers vary far too widely to make sense for the reddit theory, e.g. none of that would make sense for missing 2000+ cowries

[zenith agate]

no screenshots = nothing doing

[zenith agate]

if you take screenshots of your materials now and show they aren't super low then that would do. if they are super low then...welp.

[lost sky]

I did check C7's recs against what I had because I still had the preset and hadn't touched the granaries. I had more than enough to craft C7 again, so that wasn't the issue.

Didn't screenshot at the time because I didn't think it would amount to anything, unfortunately.

[zenith agate]

that comment you're replying to was in response to someone else...

[lost sky]

Sorry about that.

[zenith agate]

anyway the semi-official stance here now is "please report it to Square Enix. Feel free to report stuff here too, but if you can only report to one, pick square enix"

[iron slate]

Got correct and I did have enough mats for all the agendas hmmm

I'm gonna laugh if that's actually what it is on my end at least
Edit: FT Alt also got the right amount too, good on mats

[rancid thicket]

I got dinged on 2 of my 3 characters again this week, about to make a bug report. Posting screenshots here too. Going to make 2 more posts after this one with my other characters that got dinged. Here are the screenshots of my old main that got recommend cowries this week as a control. I should also note that this is my first character on my character list, Dotes is the second, Headpats is the third.

Screenshots for Dotes

Screenshots for Headpats

[stoic veldt]

I was curious about the 4998 that two people reported getting (pyruspurus and Techie) - to get that value you have to start C7 at 9 groove (clearly both actually had 35).
For Dotes' characters, 5772 is starting at 27 groove, and 5532 is starting at 21 groove.

This really serves no purpose other than sating my curiousity about the numbers, although incorrect starting groove does appear to be a consistent factor.

[tall fox]

It does, one of the times I only had a few hundred discrepancy, mienna figured out that it matched the last few crafts being done at 27 groove instead of 35

[rancid thicket]

Thank you, I'll try to pass that information along when I get a response from support. If I had access to the source code it would tell me exactly where to start looking.

[ocean bough]

that was the same with my first screenshots that actually had the bug. last item was made at 27 groove, not 35. and it was the only item collected c1. but ofc i forgot to take screenshots the one season it decides to get me again >_>

[zenith agate]

at least one person reports having gotten mismatching values when they don't even craft c7

which is actually nonsense, nothing about this bug makes sense at all, and I hope it dies a quick death in 6.4.

[quartz folio]

I don't think this is nonsense. so far we have noticed that the correct groove is used for everything you collect within the season. so, let's say, for people who did crimetime or now FT, if they ONLY talk to the taskmaster on one day, only the cowries collected that far are guaranteed to be correct. everything they only collect in the next season can potentially be bugged. so FT has the highest risk in regards to the bug. C7 is just a good example for it because it guarantees you have at least one craft, which you can't collect in the ongoing season.

[zenith agate]

I think any claims about what has "higher" or "lower" risk are absolute nonsense when we have absolutely nothing suggesting that

have we even gotten a report from an FT player

[quartz folio]

I just mean it can potentially affect more days than just C7, if your last talk to the taskmaster is before C7. the higher risk was not meant to say the chances are higher.

[zenith agate]

oh, then yes.

doesn't make it make any more sense though lol

[zenith agate]

...I legit forgot to take photos, and now it's too late. woops.

[ocean bough]

? season hasn't ended yet?

[zenith agate]

there's nothing crafting now

if you talk to the mammet now to take photos, there's nothing to check on c1

[ocean bough]

... so i may have forgotten that we were resting today lmao

i was in yesterday to take pictures on main too kek

[zenith agate]

for some reason I thought taking them on the rest day would be ok. didn't think about the ramifications of c7 rest.

[narrow tangle]

I do wonder if the bug will happen for anyone this week

Last time we had a C7 rest, we got 0 reports

And we've had reports every season since then

[ocean bough]

i am semi-testing that mostly by accident lol, main's last check was during c6's last , alt hasn't been checked since i set her schedule. we will find out

[zenith agate]

iirc proud glyptomom gets them on occasion with c7 rest spam, so it should be possible

[tall fox]

At least c1-6 matched up for me when I looked today, seeing as it's rest all crafts are complete

[narrow tangle]

Yeah, they’d definitely have to not check their island today

[zenith agate]

then you can't get the bug as stated above, you have no cowries to collect lol

[narrow tangle]

It honestly makes more sense there’s a bug with the “calculate cowries generated last season” function

So if there are any to calculate, it shouldn’t matter what cycle they’re on

[tall fox]

Yep, I was confused there was even a discussion about it since anyone wanting to collect evidence for this week would see the same thing I did

[narrow tangle]

And we know there’s specific code to handle that case because they changed behavior around the 17k achievement not popping

They wouldn’t if they just took screenshots on C4 when they set the island up

[zenith agate]

or any other time before the last craft completed basically

[tall fox]

That's true, though our usual evidence is that all the daily earnings that we could check were correct

[zenith agate]

...?

it doesn't matter when, during the c4-c7 period, you take the screenshots as long as there are crafts remaining to craft

[tall fox]

In the past we've asked everybody to get shots showing their earnings up until the day before rollover matched up

[zenith agate]

no?

we've asked for a combination of earnings pages and agenda pages

as appropriate to cover all previous, current, and future days of the season

the pin is still pinned, can check it out yourself

[tall fox]

Well yes, the agenda matters too, but to prove to SE that something's messing up when jumping to the next season...

[zenith agate]

which can be proven on any day of c4-c7 as long as you don't do what I did today, which is take them after the last craft is done.

[tall fox]

It seemed like the most bulletproof evidence with how much of a pain they were being would be showing all those other days ended up with correct calculations, for which you need both the agendas and the earnings you got

[zenith agate]

either I'm confused about what you're saying, or you're confused about what I'm saying, I'm not sure which

[tall fox]

[zenith agate]

as long as you take pictures that cover all the days of the season, you can eliminate human error.

creating an ironclad report.

this can be done with the combination of:

1. Earnings reports for days finished
2. Agendas for days yet to happen
3. combinations of the above for days in progress
4. material allocation to prove you aren't going to run out

This can be done on any day of the season from c4 onward, as long as there are crafts left (so that there is something left to collect and be wrong on c1 of next season)

[narrow tangle]

The earnings report is 50% to show that you’ve got your workshops/landmarks all set up properly and 50% to show your schedule. We need a schedule for every crafting day, but we only need one earnings report, technically.

If your cowries match on any single crafting day, you’ve proven you have everything at max level. It’s just that earnings reports are also a quick way to get your schedule in one screenshot.

It’s totally possible to prove you got the wrong cowries from one cycle of earnings and 4 future cycles, it’s just that you’d need to do the math yourself (or bribe me) to figure out how many cowries you should have made for 4 future cycles since we don’t do recs that way

[ocean bough]

alt is normal this week. setting up today's schedule and checking in on everything and i'll hop to main

and main is normal. it really is just crafting c7

[autumn vault]

So the bug, is it just that the total for 'previous season' is wrong?

Or that you don't receive the amount of cowries the taskmaster specifies?

Because I got the taskmaster telling me I received around 2k cowries

But my before and after don't go up by the amount I was told

By these calculations, it recorded only 966 in the earnings report, but I can't be sure I actually got the rest of the cowries (because I didn't think to check)

[zenith agate]

I think both have occured? iirc?

but yea looks like you got the correct amount of cowries, but the season number is just reported wrong. 22368 + 2256 = the correct total from the archive

[iron slate]

Y'know, I wonder if this will affect EXP for the 2-season stockpile too

Also I do have a consistent pattern of "if I'm close to out of a material I'm using, the bug triggers for me"

I know that didn't happen to some other people, but it's consistently happening to me

[quartz folio]

Unless the cowrie loss can actually be attributed to missing crafts, I don't think it would affect the XP. Or do non-efficient crafts give less XP than efficient ones? If so, I guess it could happen.

[zenith agate]

70exp/hour/day. Flat, nothing affects it.

[narrow tangle]

If it's happening consistently to you, you should definitely 100% report a bug

Maybe we could figure out exactly what it thinks is going on

I never thought about a craft not being counted as efficient before Rinh'a suggested it

[iron slate]

I've had it happen 2 times, both times I was VERY low on a material I was using C4-7 (not in deficit, I just barely had enough for what I needed for the rest of the week).
Since going well above what I need, I've yet to have a cowrie loss.

[narrow tangle]

So clearly, we need someone to sacrifice their (gatherable???) stockpiles to have exactly the amount they need for cycles 5-7 and then log off

I....I just stocked up. D:

[stoic veldt]

My stockpiles are in the hundreds, and I'm not sure this bug pains me quite enough to export that much

(as far as I can tell, I've never been affected)

[narrow tangle]

Same and same

I check every week to make sure the total matches

[stoic veldt]

But I do hate unexplaned behaviour

[narrow tangle]

Also same

[iron slate]

I feel like I mentioned this theory weeks ago and people were like "nah it's not a materials issue"

But yeah, it's the only consistent thing I've noticed.

[narrow tangle]

People have had it happen when their materials were high, and not had it happen when their mats were low

But if it's happening consistently to you, that's something

Maybe there's another factor in there

[iron slate]

I mean it's a sample size of 2 bugs, but both times it was when my mats were dangerously low (like 3 or less after taking the season's crafts into account, not enough for another craft), and hasn't yet happened when my mats were high enough to sustain more crafts

[autumn vault]

This is true of all programmers tbh

Unexplained, and especially inconsistent, behaviour is the WORST to debug

[tall fox]

story of my life

[zenith agate]

last chance for photos. kinda.

[zenith agate]

huh, neato. Correct totals for all days of the week, correct final payout, wrong previous season total.

I was actually logged in for reset this time.

I have the full pic suite, but here's the relevant bits:

22896 + 1668 = 24564 != 23940

so...I guess it's a different bug? just a wrong final season total, actual cowries are correct.

[rancid dock]

I thought actual gain was correct, it just the reports were wrong, so this can two different bugs, of one misreported and another that just the wrong amount cuz something went wrong (while also not being the rest bug)

[zenith agate]

at this point I don't even know anymore.

I'll just make a bug report and let god square sort it out

[autumn vault]

Huh, I also got the same reported total as you

I don't have pics though

But I think I did get the correct amount

[ocean bough]

❌ 🐛 💤

[wise copper]

huh i've read a little earlier to see if anyone came to the same ideas and yeah i've had incorrect cowries twice now and both times were when i only gathered just enough to cover the required materials for the craft, guess i'll make sure to gather a little more than the bare minimum

[zenith agate]

they put my bug report in as a duplicate bug :X

[rancid dock]

How does that even work?

[zenith agate]

no idea, since the "wrong season total" bug should be distinct from the "not getting all the cowries from last season" bug that is currently under "insufficient Information"

[rancid dock]

Type might have to catalog the bug, meaning they can only mark as a set list of types of bugs

[tall fox]

I thought we had one person who actually got them to ask for more info rather than rejecting it?

[zenith agate]

other bug.

[tall fox]

I just meant that I thought the other one is no longer "insufficient info"

since they actually acknowledged somebody finally

[zenith agate]

no, the other bug thread is still in insufficient info

[tall fox]

so they turned around and said that again after being supplied with more?

[zenith agate]

no? they just actually bothered to put it into insufficient info, and then asked for info

and then did nothing with it since

[tall fox]

oh, I thought up until that person they were always immediately closing it with insufficient

oh well

[quartz folio]

that was me. they put my forum report to insufficient information but have asked for more info via in-game support desk twice since. so I guess they are still looking into it, even if nothing gets changed in the forum post.

apart from that I also reported a wrong previous season total (in-game) for season 34, as that was the first time it happened to me (got the expected amount of cowries but previous season showed less than what I got). thus it would make sense that djinnis report is treated as duplicate. there might also be other reports already.

btw. based on what additional information they asked for, my guess is, they have recognized the incorrect cowries as a bug, but have a hard time reproducing it on demand, just like us.

[iron slate]

Reviving this just to preserve posts from #💵︱island-chat message in here.
Basically the 0 surplus issue I had (except mine was VERY LOW SURPLUS) where having exactly/barely exactly enough mats loses you a ton of crafts.

@narrow tangle ^ at some point when you're nestled back home.

[zenith agate]

or that particular alt just so happened to get affected

still interesting though

[iron slate]

Multiple alts.

[zenith agate]

huh?

the dude said "my character with +1 surplus got less cowries"

[tall fox]

yes

[zenith agate]

that implies a singular alt

[tall fox]

and the one with 0 surplus got worse

the others that had 5+ did not

though they did all have the exact same number that was like 200 less than what archive claimed it should be

[zenith agate]

ah the 0 surplus one got separated from the rest.

[zenith agate]

so literally all of them were affected then?

[tall fox]

in various ways yeah, so it'd appear

I'm assuming the FT number is 100% accurate, not an estimate?

[zenith agate]

oh, wait

[tall fox]

I can't remember if we can determine that one with perfect accuracy on C2

[zenith agate]

no, actually

FT totals are currently broken

[tall fox]

ok, so that part is fine

[zenith agate]

forgot about that

[tall fox]

but the +1/0 surprlus numbers are still useful data

especially the 0 since he lost like 10k+ on that one if I saw right

[zenith agate]

I hope they actually submit the bug report

would be nice.

[iron slate]

They need workshop agendas and material allocations for everything to prove it's not user error

[tall fox]

well it sounds like they're gonna try again this week to see if it's consistent + get full shots of the agendas

[iron slate]

and even then they'll be like "how did you know the values?"

[tall fox]

they did get allocations this time

[zenith agate]

the allocations should show that the agendas are the same

[tall fox]

not exactly, allocs alone won't prove they are in the same order

[zenith agate]

and as mentioned before, I've lowered my standards for asking people to report to "literally just send it no matter what, flood them"

at this point we need quantity not quality

[iron slate]

@woeful beacon btw

[zenith agate]

I've flerted with smaller and larger surpluses without issue in the past, but maybe I'll take something low and not awful to grind and export it to "exactly enough" just to see if it increases the odds

something to consider once we hit c4

[iron slate]

I still have a theory that more agendas/more of the mat used = bigger surplus required
Well, more like a "Feely"

[woeful beacon]

i'll send a report after my results next week

[zenith agate]

:/

[woeful beacon]

i want to isolate the problem more
like this week i did not expect that my +1 surplus character would have issues

[iron slate]

I think anything <5 is unsafe. I'd even put the "unsafe" label on anything single digit.
If you're setting up both weeks, I'd say 20+ is "safe", maybe.

I really don't know though

I'd be really curious about two week setups, or just longer than one week

[iron slate]

@narrow tangle Would it be possible to have the bot be able to calc a manually-input week's worth of agendas? I might test this on my alt in the future.
(again, only answer once you're back home and comfy, as in "don't have tons of work to catch up on" )

If that was explained poorly: Let's say S46 I'd input #🔮︱fortuneteller-recs, but also run /next_week the same day for S47's agenda. Could the bot tell me the value of that S47 agenda on S47C4, so I could compare it to what I actually got?
(this would mostly just be to test for EXPlosion)

Also @woeful beacon, if you do any checks prior to the Season ending, pay SPECIAL attention to your Groove number.

[zenith agate]

Doesn’t checking before season’s end not matter at all?

Nothing would be wrong until season transition

[tall fox]

yeah, this has only ever been observed for C7->C1 that I know of

[zenith agate]

A season transition with unclaimed crafts is required for the bug

[woeful beacon]

i only visit my islands once a week

🙃

[iron slate]

I wanted to double-check, and also hence the if.

[iron slate]

All good

[woeful beacon]

this week i'm setting up [-2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5] deficit/surplus on laver only
all other materials will be at a minimum of 20 surplus or greater

[iron slate]

Also is that like, confirmed? Checking on C7 always prevents the issue?

[tall fox]

I didn't say that

I only said that there's only ever been cowrie shortages when checking across the boundary

IOW, check on C7 -> everything up to that point is correctly retrieved

nobody has ever reported otherwise that I know of

but anything in between that C7 check and the following C1 is up for grabs for possible errors

literally the only consistency between the various bug reports has been that it happens when getting your goods from the mammet after weekly reset

[zenith agate]

No one has ever reported an issue mid week, and it would be trivially easy to diagnose if it happened that way due to review earnings. So yes.

But also no

Since if you’re crafting c7 you can’t fully avoid it

Can’t claim the last craft of a c7 before the new season starts, after all

Mobile Discord scrolling plz

[woeful beacon]

what i set up yesterday
laver supplies at [+5, +4, +3, +2, +1, 0, -1, -2] surplus/deficit
in an attempt to isolate laver as a variable all other materials are at a minimum of 20 surplus or greater
i'll post results next week

and i guess next week i can try testing c7 checks with +1 and 0 surplus vs no c7 check

[iron slate]

I'm very curious to know if any of the very low surplus matches the deficits because that will prove they're literally not crafting

[steady cave]

Just throwing this out there as a wild idea: Could there be a race condition that's happening at reset where the cowry payments for the pasture or crop upkeep by the mammets is a factor in why the totals are off from the predicted amount, or do think at this point that something, literally, isn't being crafted when it should?

[tall fox]

The amounts it's off by are way beyond those payments

Like, in Rowde's test last week with 0 surplus, it was off by an amount in the thousands

[iron slate]

Amounts are off by the thousands, and the cowrie payments don't take from your workshop, they take from your inventory and the cowries sit on the workshop until you collect them.

If the workshop spit the out in your own pile without your consent, then I could see some weirdness going on.

[steady cave]

OK, gotcha. I didn't know the amounts were that high.

[zenith agate]

it's not always

in the end it's not something obvious that mienna could catch by just staring at the numbers in the past

[tall fox]

yeah, there were some cases where the number could be narrowed down to "it makes sense if this particular craft was done at lower groove for some reason", but many where there were no rhyme or reason

[autumn vault]

It's litterally only 2 cowries, and I don't have proof... but wut

[lost sky]

Same for me, and I have >100 of everything stocked up. You don't suppose the Taskmaster is skimming off the top, do you?

[autumn vault]

I wouldn't put it past the sassy little thing lol

https://tenor.com/view/anime-onepunchman-saitama-otaku-manga-gif-5018431

[neon adder]

The bot was wrong for c3's total by 2 cowries, it's a known issue we discovered last friday

[autumn vault]

Ah

I figured it might be something like that

I mean, 2 cowries is not going to kill me so I didn't really care tbh

It was more like, I wonder if this is another bug or something, because that is usually out by magnitudes bigger

[neon adder]

Going to put this here
541 + 6353 + 6641 + 6252 + 13422 = 33,209
my previous season is listed as 34,794
that's a difference of 1585 cowries
and I'm short 2180 cowries according to previous season and 3765 cowries from the actual
I started with 175,696 cowries and ended with 208,205 which, when you account for the expenses of the pasture, cropland, and expeditions, plus the amount I earned from the "living off the land" challenges, shows a difference of 33,209
I'm going to keep even better track of the cowries this week to further the test, but I suspect the previously known bug where the actual total and listed total in the UI are different is back this patch.

My testing methodology for this week will be: set the granary to 7 days and not re-up the time so I don't spend on that, and get the cowries challenges done today so I don't gain any excess cowries, and then track my daily amounts in the index each time I check the workshop

[iron slate]

#🔮︱fortuneteller-recs has rounding issues atm. I even mentioned if you're "a few off", it's likely that.

Oh sorry my head's not on right today: #🦜︱recommendations also has a slight rounding issue as well.

Mienna's been on her honeymoon and I thiiiiiink coming back soon, but also catching up on work so she hasn't really had time to fix it yet.

TL;DR: If you're under 100 off in either direction, it's the rounding issue. Don't worry about reporting it.

[iron slate]

While you say you didn't miss anything in the agenda and your mats were perfect, the pictures don't prove that.
I'm not saying you definitely had human error, but even I'm prone to birb error every now and then when I forgot instead of doing CornFlakes - Radish - Sauerkraut - Radish, I asked Mienna what was wrong and forgot I didn't notice the Sauerkraut and ended up doing double CornFlakes.

Without seeing correct agendas and Material Allocation, this sadly doesn't say anything besides you obtaining .
(that's also why it's such a PITA to even report to SE, let alone get them to look at it)

[neon adder]

I have pics of my agendas for each day if you want me to post them and double check them for me

[narrow tangle]

Is the recs total actually off?

Fuck

[tall fox]

by 2 cowries yeah

[zenith agate]

yea there was an issue on c3 specifically

[narrow tangle]

Oh good, we know which day

[zenith agate]

this is what most got iirc, while archive was 2 higher for that day

[narrow tangle]

Could you repost that in #🏛︱headquarters so I can pin it and check it out when I get back to a computer?

[zenith agate]

yep

[narrow tangle]

Bless

[iron slate]

They've been off for weeks. FT has been off in both directions.

[narrow tangle]

I don’t care about FT

[iron slate]

PS: I did ping you somewhere

[narrow tangle]

We know that’s wrong

[iron slate]

lol okay

[zenith agate]

regular recs has been correct other than this

iirc

[narrow tangle]

Recs total being wrong is very different

FT being wrong is because the history has to get rewritten for it to evaluate properly, and I’m guessing maybe WS4’s history isn’t being set properly. Recs being wrong, especially on C3, means the math itself is wrong.

[iron slate]

I think one day was off last week or the week before?

[zenith agate]

I can check 44 if you like

but I'm pretty sure it was spot on

can't check beyond that though, no photos

[narrow tangle]

Season 43 was right because it was a record breaker and I’ve checked the ones before

So if you could double check 44 that would be great

[zenith agate]

and 44 was correct, I checked

[narrow tangle]

Beautiful

[zenith agate]

so it's just 45 c3

[narrow tangle]

Okay, so it’s just these two cowries

And FT in general

Thank you very much for the screenshot. That will make this very easy to troubleshoot once I get to it

[neon adder]

I checked this against the archived agenda, not a single craft is out of place from what I've seen. If you want to double check behind me, feel free.

[woeful beacon]

okay
screenshot dump incoming
spoiler alert
I can't even anymore

last week c2 i set up my characters with [+5, +4, +3, +2, +1, 0, -1, -2] surplus/deficit on laver only
all other materials were at a minimum of 20 surplus or greater

reposting setup pic with the checks at c2 today cuz the negatives do not go as expected

+5 surplus

+4 surplus

+5, +4, +3, surplus all got the same cowrie results
+5 was tested to be "safe" last week

[tall fox]

that's...absolutely bizarre

[woeful beacon]

+2 surplus
variance begins

+1 surplus
tested as problematic last week
continues to be problematic this week

0 surplus/deficit
tested as problematic in previous weeks
continues to be problematic this week

-1 deficit

[tall fox]

wait what, deficit got more?

[woeful beacon]

-2 deficit

[woeful beacon]

yes!

[tall fox]

that said, somebody else with +10 seems to have gotten your same 33166 number

remind me, these are the FT agendas?

at least that's what that person did

[woeful beacon]

yah FT

[leaden beacon]

Hello! I'm here (33166 total)

I can provide any additional info that anyone wants

[tall fox]

I'm failing to find what the actual number for FT was expected to be

[leaden beacon]

I collected my cowries but have done nothing else

[ocean bough]

33,353

was expected for the week

[tall fox]

am I remembering right that FT still has a math bug wrt calculating the cowries?

or was that something else?

[ocean bough]

i believe both are having calc issues

but i'd need to double check

[leaden beacon]

that's what this #🔮︱fortuneteller-recs message said

in the P.S. section

[woeful beacon]

and all my characters were set up c2 last week
then islands not touched til c2 this week (today)

[leaden beacon]

I have an 11 and a 10, but everything else was 20+, and no single digits

Unfortunately I didn't screenshot last week, though I will be doing it this week because I've encountered this pretty much every week. I was keeping most items at around 0 surplus because why wouldn't that be safe? XD

[woeful beacon]

i'm not even sure what to check this week now that deficits got more cowries

[leaden beacon]

I mean it seems like the actual problem is 0 then, no?

[woeful beacon]

+1 and +2 were also off

so also not sure what I should be reporting when I send them a report

[leaden beacon]

yeah I have no idea either. Now that your 0 got less than a -1 I'm suspecting that it might be less to do with the surplus and more about which crafts get skipped

[tall fox]

if anything I wouldn't worry so much about the 33166 as how the +1, +0 and -1 are so different

[leaden beacon]

but keeping track of that specifically would be crazy.

[tall fox]

I meant wrt submitting a bug report

it's like "look at these 5 identical agendas getting totally different numbers"

[leaden beacon]

Like... maybe some particular craft secretly requires double ingredients or something and that one is throwing all this out of wack. but I'm just conjecturing

[tall fox]

if that's the case then that's a bug for them, since material allocation is supposed to be showing you exactly what it needs

[leaden beacon]

This is probably the easiest way to go about it

[woeful beacon]

i was gonna test c7 check vs no c7 check
but i think i'm take this week off
wait til some more ppl look at my screens and suggest what i should be sending in bug report

[neon adder]

How many laver per craft was your average for last week @woeful beacon ?

[woeful beacon]

i did what was in FT

which is why i hate this even

[neon adder]

And for the +5 "safe", was that 2 weeks ago?

I'm having an idea, just gotta check on things first

[woeful beacon]

yes

[neon adder]

what did you test with for that week?

[woeful beacon]

but yah the last thing being crafted last week in every workshop was shark oil
which uses 3 laver per craft

[woeful beacon]

last week c2 i set up my characters with [+5, +4, +3, +2, +1, 0, -1, -2] surplus/deficit on laver only
all other materials were at a minimum of 20 surplus or greater

[neon adder]

was laver what you used as a test for s44 though?

the one where you thought +5 was safe

[stoic veldt]

The main issue with that conjecture is that this behaviour only occurs when collecting the previous season's remaining cowries. It does not occur in-season.

[woeful beacon]

I was expecting +5 to be safe and +1, 0 to be off
I was testing for +4, +3, +2 last week to see when/if any variance began
I started at +5 to use it as a "control" and included -1, -2 just because of step progression
I was expecting 0, -1, -2 to all have the same results
However -1, -2 ended up getting more cowries than 0

so i don't even know anymore since -1, -2 also got different amounts despite both in theory only being short materials for a single shark oil craft on c7 last week

[neon adder]

I have a theory but I wanted more info before posting it

I'll go ahead though since I'm not searching a thousand+ message thread for a single message

In the U.S., at least before the pandemic hit, when purchasing fuel on debit cards the bank would take a flat amount of money out of the account instead of the amount spent at the station. The reason for this was because the servers couldn't handle all the calculations during the peaks of use (morning, noon, and afternoon), so they would take the flat amount and then at night when demand for fuel died down, they'd run all of the calculations and reset the balance to the actual amount spent.

I can confirm from testing that the crafts calculate their cowries within 5 real seconds of the craft finishing. And every single island with a craft ending at reset time all calculates at the exact same time because it resets on server time, not some arbitrary time.
It's possible that it's resource intensive enough that the system just takes a flat amount of mats out for the crafts, then runs back through the calculations at a later time and resets the balance of materials stored. This might be throwing errors if the flat amount isn't met and failing the crafts, even though it should be programmed to assume the crafts succeed and then fail them a few minutes later when the system gets around to fixing its values.

If I'm right about this, then +16 mats is always safe (because the highest mat expenditure is 4 per craft and there are 4 workshops) but +15 on the final craft will sometimes fail all of the crafts and drop their values out of the calculations.

Fortunately this can be tested for but requires specific agendas to do so because you'd need to find the expected value of each of the 4 final crafts for c7 and test how much the expected vs actual loss is.

[woeful beacon]

well about that
the 4 final crafts on c7 last week used 3 laver each (12 total)

[stoic veldt]

If that was the case, then Rowde's +1, 0, -1 and -2 tests would all be out the same amount

[woeful beacon]

+2 was also off

[stoic veldt]

You might not be wrong about it being some sort of bulk calc efficiency failure, but I suspect the amounts don't match to missing shark oil crafts

[neon adder]

Yeah I might be wrong about some parts

I'm 99.99% certain I am

but I fully suspect there is bulk calculation going on somewhere that's failing

(I forgot the term word "bulk" existed when typing my stuff earlier lol)

but either way, it can be tested for

if this is happening though, any final craft that ends on daily reset might be capable of causing the issue, though weekly reset is much more intensive on the server and it might only be failing then

[stoic veldt]

The 'why' isn't really all that important for us to understand (apart from inquiring minds wanting to know) - the important thing is to make SE accept that there is an issue.

[neon adder]

There is a way Rowde can test that though.
Take c5's final craft(s) for the FT recs and get a deficit only on them of -2 to +5 and then check c6 to see if they failed or not.

[stoic veldt]

So being able to reproduce it on-demand is key

[neon adder]

Yeah. I'm gathering more info for the bug post because last week I got the bug they claimed to have fixed in the 6.4 patch notes

[woeful beacon]

i'm open to suggestions for testing
but i'm taking a week off from this

i wanted to be able to send a more specific bug report than "my numbers are different"
with the cowrie variance on +2, +1, 0, -1, -2 this week though i'm even less sure what to report

[stoic veldt]

I assume you have the agendas screenshotted too - in which case report it all and let SE ponder it

[neon adder]

Yeah

I gotta go now though, got work to do

[tall fox]

yeah, "my numbers are different for identical islands/schedules" is pretty much all you need, along with the surpluses/cowrie variances

[neon adder]

cya

[tall fox]

no need to speculate why

[stoic veldt]

You'd expect a loss on the two with a laver deficit, but since that's one craft they should be out by the same amount

[tall fox]

yep, and definitely not "earned more than the one that did not have said deficit"

[stoic veldt]

Calculating what you should have got isn't necessary - proving the agendas are identical is

[tall fox]

it is, just noting that getting more cowries with insufficient mats than with a 0 surplus is the weirdest part of all

to me anyways

[stoic veldt]

Oh yeah, definitely. I was just sorting out my own thoughts 😁

Part of me really wants to sit down and play with the numbers to see what went wrong and where - but I can't do that without the historic supply & popularity data, and it doesn't really help anything

[floral drum]

Do you want/need the historic supply/popularity data?

Cause I can get that for you.

[stoic veldt]

I would certainly not object to it, but it's really only for curiousity!

[tall fox]

I'm pretty sure Mienna has tried that in the past during 6.3, and while there were some explainable ones (e.g. this number matches up perfectly if craft X was made with < max groove), there were others for which there was no way to make the numbers make sense

[stoic veldt]

Yeah, I've done it before too, with similar findings

[tall fox]

just wondering if there's a reason you're expecting anything different this time 🙂

[stoic veldt]

I'm expecting exactly the same - but my real goal is saying "the missing cowries are not explained by X missing shark oil crafts"

[tall fox]

Ah

that should at least be simpler

why would you need the historical data for that though? We in theory know the craft value no?

[floral drum]

What weeks do you want/need?

[stoic veldt]

Season 45 please!

[floral drum]

kk. I have forgotten to eat lunch, so I'mma go make myself a sandwhich, then I'll pull that.
Note it'll be in computer friendly format, you're on your own for parsing it :)

[tall fox]

oh, lunch, I should do that shortly

[stoic veldt]

Well, I want to try to get exact matches if possible, so will pull a bunch of different levers and see what happens

[tall fox]

I read lavers at first glance

[stoic veldt]

Thanks! No rush, I'm still at work myself

[floral drum]

Peaks:
5S, 6W, 2W, 3W, 2W, 4W, 5W, 7S, 4W, 5W, 6S, 5W, 6W, 6S, 6W, 6S, 7W, 4S, 7S, 6W, 7S, 3S, 3W, 5W, 2W, 2S, 3W, 3S, 4S, 5S, 5S, 4S, 4W, 4W, 2S, 5S, 2W, 7W, 7W, 4S, 2S, 7S, 7W, 6S, 7S, 3W, 3S, 3S, 2S, 7W, 6W, 6S, 2S, 3S, 5S, 2W, 7S, 5W, 4W, 3W, 7W, 4S, 7S, 3W, 3S, 5W, 6S, 6W, 7W, 2S, 4S, 5S
Popularity:
3,1,2,2,3,3,3,2,4,1,1,4,1,2,2,4,3,2,2,1,1,2,3,1,2,2,3,3,2,1,3,3,4,4,2,4,2,1,4,1,3,4,3,1,2,3,3,1,3,2,3,3,2,2,4,3,3,4,1,2,2,4,3,4,2,3,4,1,3,2,3,3

1=Very High.

[stoic veldt]

Thanks!

[stoic veldt]

Apologies - can you confirm those are definitely the right popularities for season 45? If I used these to compare S45-C3 which is the same schedule for FT and main recs, I can't match the archive unless I tweak the pops for necklace (3->2), brush (1->3), rope (2->4), bed (1->2) and spruce round shield (2->3).

Interestingly, I can match the archive (6399 starting with 13 groove), but not the actual result (6397) - but that's a separate issue! (the grooveless value is spot on)

[stoic veldt]

I'm probably crazy, but this 2-cowrie difference could be achieved if the supply and/or popularity bonuses are .999 rather than round numbers (e.g 99.999, 119.999, 139.999).

[iron slate]

Why would it only start on Series 3 though

[stoic veldt]

It wouldn't - the difference is almost entirely swallowed by the floor function in most circumstances

[iron slate]

Hmmm

[stoic veldt]

I'm only fiddling with one cycle at the moment, though - Mienna is much better placed to consider this crackpot suggestion

[stoic veldt]

OK, I did comparisons of various combinations, there are variances in too many scenarios, so this is unlikely to be the issue because the bot is spot on every day except this one

[floral drum]

My apologies. It was popularity pattern 2, but I forgot that they start indexing at 0 so I did send you the wrong one.
This should be the correct popularity: 2,1,3,3,2,1,1,3,2,4,1,4,3,2,2,4,3,3,1,2,2,3,2,2,4,3,2,2,4,1,3,2,4,3,3,1,1,4,2,2,3,1,1,1,3,4,3,2,1,3,2,4,2,2,3,4,3,1,3,3,3,2,3,2,4,3,2,3,4,3,4,1

[stoic veldt]

Thanks , and no worries- I'm just glad my calculator isn't completely wrong!

[neon adder]

and this week I got exactly the amount of cowries reported by the UI

I'm beginning to suspect that the two bugs are related

[stoic veldt]

Now I've got my calculator giving the right value for S45 FT - 31,938 is consistent with not crafting two workshops worth of Shark Oil on C7

[woeful beacon]

i'll get back into this week

the deficit variance made me angy last week

[stoic veldt]

I haven't found a variation that gives the same result as the +1 surplus result yet

[zenith agate]

I think Mienna addressed or is addressing the 2 cowrie variance? Not sure if done or in progress.

[tall fox]

I didn't think Rinh'a meant that one, rather the "got 28616 cowries" one from Rowde's screenshot

at least that's the number I see in scrollback for +1 surplus

[stoic veldt]

I'm seeing 31902

[tall fox]

are we talking about the same week?

I'm looking at #1080205224754556987 message

[stoic veldt]

You're looking at the cowries received, I'm looking at previous season total

[tall fox]

31902 claimed vs 28616 actually received

ah ok

[stoic veldt]

To be fair, I'd forgotten about that part of the bug 🙂

[tall fox]

do you have better luck trying to find something that fits the actual value received?

[stoic veldt]

Nothing obvious yet, I'll try to keep testing

[tall fox]

just curious, are you also trying groove variations? I remember one time I had a weird result and Mienna managed to math it out as "last set of crafts was run with -10 groove"

[stoic veldt]

Yep, trying groove and efficiency variations

I've tried tweaking the supply in a few places too, just in case

Ah, there we go - 31,902 (+1 surplus season total) is consistent with groove being reset to 6 on the bouillabaisse (after being 45 on the first two sets of crafts)

[tall fox]

that's....something

[stoic veldt]

But, it did craft all 4x2 shark oils

[woeful beacon]

i'm actually gonna take another week off from this
gonna just build up items with granaries again this week so hopefully i'll have very little gathering to do next week

[stoic veldt]

No problem - to be honest, there's no consistency or explanation for the errors that happen. Being able to replicate the numbers is nice, but it's just showing that there's a mess on SE's side.

For example, why would groove drop to a random value partway through C7? Is it mixing in values from someone else's island?

No way that we can tell, we can just point them at instances of the problem and hope they care.

[woeful beacon]

yah i think i'll do the "pairs" test next week
4 pairs at [+5, +1, 0, -1] on a single material
1 pair i'll check cowries c7 "close" to reset (at least during the final craft for the week) and on the following c2
other pair i'll check on the following c2 like usual

[neon adder]

I'm interested in the results from that test cause last monday I checked just 2 hours before weekly reset and then the next morning I had none of the known cowrie issues

[narrow tangle]

I can calc anything you want, for the record, as long as you give me the schedule and the season

[hazy shore]

I'm sorry, I didn't read all of your posts here but what's the current deal with the missing cowries? First time it happened for me afaik, I'm missing around 3k

[tall fox]

it's a bug on SE's end

started with 6.3 and they still haven't fixed it or acknowledged it despite many bug reports

[hazy shore]

Right. Do I have to report it somewhere or are we just waiting for things to change?

[tall fox]

you can certainly try, to date they've almost always closed them with "not enough information"

[hazy shore]

Sounds great 🙄 I'll see if I can bring myself to do it. Thank you for the info!

[tall fox]

best bet is pretty much to take screenshots of your agendas and material allocations beforehand, then if you get hit again include those in the bug report

[hazy shore]

That makes sense

[tall fox]

FWIW, it only ever happens when rolling over from C7 -> C1 during weekly reset, and it seems to be more likely to occur if your supplies for some of the required mats are very close to the requirements

[narrow tangle]

So if your goal is to bully Squeenix into fixing it, take a bunch of screenshots (The specific ones needed are pinned in #💵︱island-chat). If your goal is to avoid it happening, gather like 10 extra of your materials and that'll probably be fine?

[neon adder]

based on testing, I'd say 16 extra

also I got the exact amount predicted this week and didn't encounter the earnings report bug despite not going to my island at all since inputting the stuff for 5-7

[narrow tangle]

Minus the extra cowrie from the calculation bug, I assume?

[neon adder]

yup, minus that one cowrie

[narrow tangle]

Okay, cool

Telling me you actually got 38451 would be a very funny way to give me a stroke though

[neon adder]

sorry, I forgot about that part lol

[narrow tangle]

No worries! Lol

I assumed that's what you meant

[neon adder]

38,450, both in the earnings report and in my actual summed total and in my index (minus the 300/day for the mammets)

[tall fox]

that sadly did not work for me this week, ended up about 2k short and had > 10 surplus of everything

first time I've actually observed it myself too

well, second

first time was that weird one where you figured out my workshops reset their groove by like 5 for some reason

that time was only a few hundred short though, not 2k

[stoic veldt]

The difference is often matched by groove changing to a lower value, but there's no sane reason why that should happen.

[tall fox]

Indeed there isn't

[zenith agate]

well actually...they've at least acknowledged that some amount of bug exists

[tall fox]

Oh holy shit

Color me shocked

[zenith agate]

yea this thread I put up on the 19th actually got put into a decent category, but it's possible the only part they're acknowledging is the "previous season" total being wrong

who knows

[woeful beacon]

+5 Surplus Laver
both got Squawkbot projected earnings of 34,620
both earnings reports registered matched total check cowrie gains
no difference between c7 check and no c7 check

Willig Rowde
s48c3 setup, s48c7 check, s49c3 check
https://imgur.com/a/Oax8XP3
s48c3 setup total cowrie: 445,404
s48c7 check cowrie gain: 32,036
s49c3 check cowrie gain: 2,584
total check cowrie gain: 34,620
earnings report registered: 34,620
s49c3 check total cowrie: 478,924
actual cowrie gain: 478,924 - 445,404 = 33,520
math check: 34,620 - 2,100(daily costs) = 32,520 + 1,000(challenge log: workshop) = 33,520
variance between total check cowrie gain and earnings report registered: 34,620 - 34,620 = 0
variance between total check cowrie gain and Squawkbot projected earnings: 34,620 - 34,620 = 0

La-hee Brea
s48c3 setup, s49c3 check
https://imgur.com/a/mhbM5YL
s48c3 setup total cowrie: 447,094
s49c3 check cowrie gain: 34,620
earnings report registered: 34,620
s49c3 check total cowrie: 480,614
actual cowrie gain: 480,614 - 447,094 = 33,520
math check: 34,620 - 2,100(daily costs) = 32,520 + 1,000(challenge log: workshop) = 33,520
variance between check cowrie gain and earnings report registered: 34,620 - 34,620 = 0
variance between check cowrie gain and Squawkbot projected earnings: 34,620 - 34,620 = 0

+1 Surplus Laver
c7 check earnings report registered matched total check cowrie gain
c7 check got Squawkbot projected earnings of 34,620
no c7 check earnings report registered did not match check cowrie gain
no c7 check got -3,143 less than Squawkbot projected earnings of 34,620

Thousand-cast Theda
s48c3 setup, s48c7 check, s49c3 check
https://imgur.com/a/NE42IBJ
s48c3 setup total cowrie: 433,824
s48c7 check cowrie gain: 32,036
s49c3 check cowrie gain: 2,584
total check cowrie gain: 34,620
earnings report registered: 34,620
s49c3 check total cowrie: 467,344
actual cowrie gain: 467,344 - 433,824 = 33,520
math check: 34,620 - 2,100(daily costs) = 32,520 + 1,000(challenge log: workshop) = 33,520
variance between total check cowrie gain and earnings report registered: 34,620 - 34,620 = 0
variance between total check cowrie gain and Squawkbot projected earnings: 34,620 - 34,620 = 0

Zona Seeker
s48c3 setup, s49c3 check
https://imgur.com/a/SiEuIFC
s48c3 setup total cowrie: 446,906
s49c3 check cowrie gain: 31,477
earnings report registered: 34,620
s49c3 check total cowrie: 477,283
actual cowrie gain: 477,283 - 446,906 = 30,377
math check: 31,477 - 2,100(daily costs) = 29,377 + 1,000(challenge log: workshop) = 30,377
variance between check cowrie gain and earnings report registered: 31,477 - 34,620 = -3,143
variance between check cowrie gain and Squawkbot projected earnings: 31,477 - 34,620 = -3,143

0 Surplus/Deficit Laver
c7 check earnings report registered matched total check cowrie gain
c7 check got -801 less than Squawkbot projected earnings of 34,620
no c7 check earnings report registered did not match check cowrie gain
no c7 check got -5,744 less than Squawkbot projected earnings of 34,620

Kaiser Behemoth
s48c3 setup, s48c7 check, s49c3 check
https://imgur.com/a/N1cvVMJ
s48c3 setup total cowrie: 442,457
s48c7 check cowrie gain: 32,036
s49c3 check cowrie gain: 1,783
total check cowrie gain: 33,819
earnings report registered: 33,819
s49c3 check total cowrie: 475,176
actual cowrie gain: 475,176 - 442,457 = 32,719
math check: 33,819 - 2,100(daily costs) = 31,719 + 1,000(challenge log: workshop) = 32,719
variance between total check cowrie gain and earnings report registered: 33,819 - 33,819 = 0
variance between total check cowrie gain and Squawkbot projected earnings: 33,819 - 34,620 = -801

The Garlok
s48c3 setup, s49c3 check
https://imgur.com/a/BsocpV0
s48c3 setup total cowrie: 455,288
s49c3 check cowrie gain: 28,876
earnings report registered: 33,525
s49c3 check total cowrie: 483,064
actual cowrie gain: 483,064 - 455,288 = 27,776
math check: 28,876 - 2,100(daily costs) = 26,776 + 1,000(challenge log: workshop) = 27,776
variance between check cowrie gain and earnings report registered: 28,876 - 33,525 = -4,649
variance between check cowrie gain and Squawkbot projected earnings: 28,876 - 34,620 = -5,744

-1 Deficit Laver
c7 check earnings report registered matched total check cowrie gain
c7 check got -1,068 less than Squawkbot projected earnings of 34,620
no c7 check earnings report registered did not match check cowrie gain
no c7 check got -5,991 less than Squawkbot projected earnings of 34,620

Bone Crawler
s48c3 setup, s48c7 check, s49c3 check
https://imgur.com/a/I4RpT8j
s48c3 setup total cowrie: 443,838
s48c7 check cowrie gain: 32,036
s49c3 check cowrie gain: 1,516
total check cowrie gain: 33,552
earnings report registered: 33,552
s49c3 check total cowrie: 476,290
actual cowrie gain: 476,290 - 443,838 = 32,452
math check: 33,552 - 2,100(daily costs) = 31,452 + 1,000(challenge log: workshop) = 32,452
variance between total check cowrie gain and earnings report registered: 33,552 - 33,552 = 0
variance between total check cowrie gain and Squawkbot projected earnings: 33,552 - 34,620 = -1,068

Forgiven Pedantry
s48c3 setup, s49c3 check
https://imgur.com/a/PjbzJCa
s48c3 setup total cowrie: 437,354
s49c3 check cowrie gain: 28,609
earnings report registered: 33,258
s49c3 check total cowrie: 464,863
actual cowrie gain: 464,863 - 437,354 = 27,509
math check: 28,609 - 2,100(daily costs) = 26,509 + 1,000(challenge log: workshop) = 27,509
variance between check cowrie gain and earnings report registered: 28,609 - 33,258 = -4,649
variance between check cowrie gain and Squawkbot projected earnings: 28,609 - 34,620 = -5,991

additional thoughts:

• it would appear that doing a c7 check has an effect on cowries gained if close to 0 surplus/deficit
• continued to observe variance at +1 surplus without a c7 check and 0 surplus/deficit when there really shouldn’t be any variance
• having an “adequate surplus” seems to ignore both issues
  
- rip alts
• no c7 check seems to have larger impact than 0 surplus/deficit
• rip ppl with busy schedules on c7 evenings

[narrow tangle]

The bug definitely only applies to cowries calculated over the week boundary

So the longer you leave it unchecked, the more cowries get calculated next week, and the more stuff that could go wrong, if it goes wrong

Cowries calculated during the week are fine

This is exceptional data though

I really hope you’re reporting this to square enix!! Because this is just beautiful to behold

[woeful beacon]

i'll post it on the OF

[iron slate]

I love that my autistic/OCD brain was useful in deciphering a bug.

The only thread I saw connecting my lost cowries was the fact that I was preeeeeeeeeeeetty close to 0 surplus

[tall fox]

may I just add that "La-Hee Brea" is one of my favorite new character names ever?

[woeful beacon]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/486581-Island-Sanctuary-incorrect-cowrie-gains-and-tracking-over-weekly-reset-boundary?p=6303423#post6303423

now to see if it gets accepted

🙏

[tall fox]

thanks for all the hard work investigating and documenting that!

[narrow tangle]

This is also really interesting because I think you're the first person to also document what their cowries were before and after to notice when like, the report is also lying

[iron slate]

SE: "Insufficient info. How do you KNOW that's the amount you were supposed to get?! User errored the math, get rekt nerd."

[zenith agate]

I determined the “previous season” report lied with my own screenshot set, but I did not bother to screenshot the actual changes to my cowries since it seemed to match with the “you receive x cowries” messages

Guess if I bother to take more rounds I’ll track that number to some extent as well…

We’ll see how my “accepted bug” report goes first though

[neon adder]

I also did this but at this point I'm tired of all the work. I have other things to do.

[zenith agate]

thread is still "accepted bugs" with 0 responses in case anyone is curious

wouldn't surprise me if it stayed this way

[neon adder]

at this point I think the dev team just assumes we haven't actually figured out the math and are just wrong about our information.

[zenith agate]

Well they wouldn’t have “accepted” the bug report of they didn’t think there was something there

But they may only care about the “wrong previous season total” part of my report

[neon adder]

yup

I still think both bugs are part of a bulk calculation issue that only occurs cause the servers are doing an extra few things for the weekly reset that they aren't normally doing from day to day

if I'm right about that, we'll never see an issue if you're above +16 surplus so it's testable, I just don't want to test it rn

[narrow tangle]

What are you thinking about the number 16?

[neon adder]

There's 4 workshops and the max number of mats for a craft is 4 (unless I missed one that uses 5 for any single given mat), so 4x4 = 16

*max number of individual mats, not collectively

[narrow tangle]

Ahhh

Entirely possible

[neon adder]

I made a whole explanation for what lead me to that theory in this thread a while back as well

[narrow tangle]

Ah, sorry. I might’ve been out of town

[neon adder]

Probably, it has been a while since I posted it

[neon adder]

here it is

[woeful beacon]

i wasn't able to 'reply' to your topic yesterday
which is why i made a new one

[tall fox]

do they auto-lock after a certain amount of inactivity or something?

[woeful beacon]

ooof i mislabeled cycle2 as cycle3 on everything yesterday
dies

[tall fox]

ah

so basically -> accepted = implicit lock

[zenith agate]

luckily you can edit it and fix it. also make sure you keep and fill in every single one of the fields, even if you just write "not applicable" or something

to try and make it less likely it gets accidentally put into "insufficient info"

[neon adder]

so even though c7 was a rest day, I got the bug.
Unfortunately I gave up recording my inputs because I got tired of the tedium, but I know I didn't make a mistake because I always triple check my inputs.
The only thing that was off was I was only a few mats over the required for my c5 and c6 crafts.

some of them were as little as +2

[zenith agate]

it's not whether c7 is the rest day or not, it's whether you have any cowries to collect from the previous season.

which...if people take screenshots on c7, and c7 is rest, they will collect all the cowries

[neon adder]

Yeah

[zenith agate]

on a normal week, if someone decides to take screenshots last second, there are still crafts to break. but that's not the case with a c7 rest, that's all

[neon adder]

I hope they take it seriously and figure out the bug

[zenith agate]

thusfar the answer is "nope" but...

at least there's some small hope since they accepted at least one of the bug threads

I wonder how the rest did 🤔

looks like Rowde's is still in "in-game bugs" meaning it hasn't been looked at/sorted yet

looks like going down to 7 cotton didn't get me the bug lol

[neon adder]

if this is just a rounding error, I am going to scream irl

[woeful beacon]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/486581-Island-Sanctuary-incorrect-cowrie-gains-and-tracking-over-weekly-reset-boundary

accepted!

[rancid dock]

did you really name your alts after s ranks

when you need to pick a name i suppose

[woeful beacon]

i did it before ppl worked out the kinks in their callbots
so my alts would get detected and then i'd see auto-pings going out
was good for a laugh and to "expose" teh hunt botters

[rancid dock]

fair enough

[narrow tangle]

This owns

[narrow tangle]

It's a huge bummer than Djinni's bug got closed as could not repro but I'm hoping with these super clear repro steps they can figure out what's wrong

[stoic veldt]

I'm half-expecting "working as intended" with no further explanation

[narrow tangle]

Nah

They wouldn't have accepted it if it wasn't an issue

They might close it as failed to repro though :(

But I hope not

These are good steps

[zenith agate]

I gave them every step I took, if they understand their own system even a little it should have been enough

I think they just tried for two whole seasons, didn't trigger it, and went "welp whatever" and threw the ticket out

vs me trying for...15 seasons to reproduce?

[narrow tangle]

QA teams are universally overworked

They have other stuff they need to be doing and can only spend so much time per bug

If this were their #1 priority, I'm sure they could figure it out

But it just isn't

[zenith agate]

I would have imagined they would have a way to test the bug internally that doesn’t involve waiting actual real world weeks for server resets so I have no idea.

[narrow tangle]

They might

[zenith agate]

I don’t fault them for that. I’m just taking out my annoyance in the wrong place

[narrow tangle]

And they might have done it

Is it clear to them that this only happens on week breaks?

[zenith agate]

I guess I find the idea that “my reproduction steps were wrong/insufficient” to be insulting.

[narrow tangle]

That's fair, I'm sorry.

[zenith agate]

That’s on me for getting worked up/deflecting. If I can reproduce it again this season I might try another post. Maybe ideally without the “previous season total” being wrong so there can be less possible confusion

Getting two bugs at once probably didn’t make it easier on anyone

[iron slate]

Obs I get that but to have all your work thrown out as "insufficient data" is so messed up

Definitely insulting

[zenith agate]

I guess they changed their minds