Make all of the furniture movable.

[magic lotus]

I suggest making barocraftables as a vanilla feature where most of the furniture can be moved around except for "machine" category.
Allow us to move cabinets/box shelves and other decorations around.

I want it to be added on vanilla cause even with the barocraftables you still cant move any original sub's furniture

[keen aspen]

Also allow us to remove background items

Other than walls

@magic lotus get Barocraftables+

[sly bough]

let us move background fish

[placid iris]

Nuh uh

There is a lot of things you dont want to be able to move from a submarine editor's perspective let alone balancing reasons

Keep it to mods

Some submarines intentionally put excess ammo shelves far away

And what stops you from moving stuff from one sub to another

Not too mention how ugly the ship would look after 10 minutes

[keen aspen]

But at the same time, subs like the Humpback wastes space in some rooms

[placid iris]

Thats fine

[keen aspen]

Medbay

[placid iris]

You dont need every speck of space to be an ammo shelf

[keen aspen]

The Medbay could be half the size

[placid iris]

That doesn't mean it has to be though

[keen aspen]

It does

[placid iris]

The Berillia could be 1/5 the size

By that logic

[keen aspen]

Berillia is a cargo sub

[placid iris]

So cargo sub means it can waste as much space as it wants

Why aren't all the other subs shuttle sized

[magic lotus]

Thats why I said "expect for machines category".
But it does not include ammo shelves simply because you dont even need the shelves to be able to store excessive amounts of ammo boxes.
You just dump it on the floor just like all the diving suits you could instead place in a shelf instead.
Shelves dont impact balance in any meaningful way at all. What does are only actual devices that I think should stay immovable,

[placid iris]

Shelves do impact balance

Especially if you can move them between subs

You can seal them in watertight rooms instead

Negating the dangerous missions

And also I'm not just talking about balance

Being able to move preplaced things would be bad from a visual perspective and would fuck over a lot of existing submarines

Submarines would have to be designed with this feature in mind

[magic lotus]

They dont impact your subs capacity that is basically infinite since you can just keep them on the ground. Craftable ammo shelves would just make it less messy

[placid iris]

Cargo missions

[magic lotus]

You can just put ammo boxes in a sealed room

[placid iris]

The reason why ammo shelves aren't in the hundreds on ships are because they dont want to incentivize hoarding every box you find

[magic lotus]

We already have a talent to put additional makeshift box shelves

[placid iris]

I know

And its limited to 3? i think

And has 2 slots

So 6 extra crates

On a pretty late game talent

Mid game moreso

But you get the idea

[magic lotus]

Well, I am not gonna discuss this change in a context of cargo capacity since I dont take any cargo missions myself but ammo shelves/diving suit shelves/every decorative furniture/cabinets should be movable

While box shelves and cargo capacity are a different story

[keen aspen]

Maybe creates are heavy

So the more creates you have, easier the sub will go down

[placid iris]

Just install a mod for this

That's all I'm saying

It doesn't work well within vanilla

As I can poke so many holes in it

Barocraftables+

Or even EK

Both have these features

[keen aspen]

I think we should just beable to move background items

[placid iris]

I would be very pissed off as a submarine editor if they did that

Most subs work through smoke and mirrors

That removes the smoke and mirrors

[magic lotus]

I always play with one but it works through adding an additional "makeshift" variant that is separate from vanilla furniture. Therefore I cant move original subs cabinet and have to just have to place them over everything else

[placid iris]

I think there is a mod for that actually

I'll see if I can find it for you

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3018655730
Not what I was looking for but related.

I cant seem to find it

But I'm sure I saw it not long ago

Had the ability to detatch anything

[dawn trellis]

Barocraftables +

[placid iris]

That doesn't let you move existing things though right?

I swear I saw a mod for it not long ago

[dawn trellis]

Yes it does

[magic lotus]

I do use it but it doesnt allow you to move the original furniture of the sub. You can only add additional furniture

It just adds movable "makeshift" variants

Nvm I just checked. I was using non + version

[dawn trellis]

Me on my why to give some holy spirit

[carmine idol]

If you can rewire a sub and make it op you might as well be able to move furniture around

[sly bough]

rewiring requires skill, moving furniture not

[carmine idol]

If you can read instructions you can wire without knowing how to wire

[sly bough]

who does that?

[trail latch]

god no diving suit lockers should not be movable

people would just put them in every room and make pressure a nonissue

i already hate how people scatter suits on the floor to make pressure a nonexistent game mechanic

decorative shit, maybe? but most decorative parts are structures

and afaik in the current iteration of baro structures are extremely rigid

[placid iris]

You'd also have the problem of submarine editors have been using them for a long time to create there own decor

or to hide something you aren't meant to see

[sly bough]

so in all cases this is a bad idea

[carmine idol]

how is this any worse than being required to wear a dive suit 24/7? and in this example specifically, you're adding more lockers than would already exist on a ship

[trail latch]

being required to wear a divesuit 24/7 is bad too

and how would you be adding more? you'd just scatter them, not synthesize them out of thin air

both outcomes are bad

so why make it even more prevalent?

[magic lotus]

I mean. Thats the thing. You already can do it by just hoarding the ship with them. So adding the lockers will do nothing but just save us from the mess

[trail latch]

you're looking at it wrong

making boring behaviour even more convenient encourages it

this is bad

[queen crown]

this is why mods exist this should never be in vanilla

[carmine idol]

mods also exist because of how limited devs are when it comes to the scope of development

being able to rearrange stuff would increase QOL a ton. the resulting reduction in difficulty from moving something like a dive locker is negligible compared to everything else you can do with your sub

[sly bough]

making stuff movable will only be fine with a limit of 3 such items installed on a sub, for example 1 shelf + 1 ammo thing + 1 diving suit thing. but gicing the ability to players fuck up layout you as a sub creator made is bad

cuz sub creator has some gameplay of sub in mind designing it, like inconvinient ammo holders of Humpback

[carmine idol]

lets not even talk about custom subs. if you're against moving shit around in the first place, a whole ass custom sub that outclasses vanilla subs with good layouts and item placement are on a whole other level

[placid iris]

The difference is thats separate to campaign

You have to go out of your way to have that

This is something any player on your server can do

Also submarine editor IS MODDED

I will not accept anyone saying custom subs aren't mods

Its accessible modding

[sly bough]

well yeah, actually those are mods

never thought about it

take dugoung for example, why would you need this feature on this sub? what would you install here? mid campaign

or from T2 subs Typhon, what would you need here?

[carmine idol]

vanilla subs aint perfect in any sense, and thats fine, but default dive locker placement doesn't work with the state of gameplay. in regards to moving furniture, dive lockers would be the only thing i'd move on any ship

[sly bough]

ok, so your idea is to give players ability to move only dive lockers? sounds even worse then original idea since this way instead of just troving diving suits on the floor people will spam lockers and trow suits

@magic lotus what would you use this feature for on a vanilla sub, since I'm trying to understand problem you want to solve with this feature

[carmine idol]

by spam lockers do you mean adding more lockers? im strictly talking rearranging them

[queen crown]

and if they were to lose a locker how would they get a new one. If you can craft or steal them then you could just spam them the balancing for this would be a nightmare

[carmine idol]

you wouldn't pick them up, you would select them and highlight a spot to place them in

[queen crown]

that is a new system just for something you can add with mods if you wanted to so badly move that locker 5 feet to the left

[sly bough]

there can be limit, sub has 5 lockers, no more then 5 lockers can be installed

[queen crown]

so what if your sub has more then 5 to start with or less then 5 for balance reasons

[sly bough]

then it makes more sense, but still, subs were made with locker placment in mind, and you will just breack it

[sly bough]

the limit = starting amount of lockers on a sub

[queen crown]

just doesint feel like something that should be in vanilla would just ruin balancing of subs since they arint made to be changeable

[sly bough]

yes

[carmine idol]

your issue with the idea seems to be game balance. why would having it implemented in a way that would limit abuse seem too inconsequential to include at all? Moving lockers between rooms can have a huge impact on how a ship plays, and would help mitigate suits being left on the floor of every room, which also seems to negatively affect online performance. This is a big reason we got the item stack rework

[carmine idol]

you're talking about sub balance but leaving suits on the floor serves the same function, and everyone does it

at the end of the day, if you've got a good sub crew playing the meta, this game is easy and boring regardless, it is what it is

[queen crown]

until you pick that suit up off the ground and it has no o2 and the room with o2 bottles in it is full of monsters

[carmine idol]

no spare o2 bottle?

[queen crown]

you can only carry one in each slot now

[sly bough]

if you introduce limit on lockers it will not "mitigate suits being left on the floor of every room" most likely

if you don't introduce limit then it brakes game since sub was designed with lockers where they are, not where players would put them

item stuck rework was made to make searching for needed resource less annoying + optimize them

[carmine idol]

that would actually be an issue if devs nerfed suits lying on the floor actually depleting o2

[sly bough]

yes, but you don't need new mechanic for that

[sly bough]

sounds silly

[queen crown]

not saying they deplete o2 but people are lazy and wont refill the suit before dropping it

suit lockers can be powered and refill suits. oxygen masks should be used more they are hardly used as is

[carmine idol]

think we need to avoid talking about how devs would implement it. the bigger issue is how to address diving suits, locker placement, and high pressure

[carmine idol]

o2 masks are part of a failed system

[sly bough]

uh, it's already adressed, you wear diving suite, or drop it on a floor where you feel it

[queen crown]

yes I feel like they need some sort of buff they just recently got nerfed by pressure system killing you easier

pretty much useless as of now

[sly bough]

"pressure system killing you easier" is literraly one of the best parts of updade

[carmine idol]

need a better system than wearing a suit 24/7 or having 5 suits on the floor in every room

[sly bough]

like what?

[queen crown]

it is nice but suits on 24/7 is all I see so you dont even see anyone die to it

anyways this has deviated from moveable furniture

[carmine idol]

devs went backwards tbh. decreasing time to kill for high pressure within a sub was a mistake. high pressure within a sub needs to be drastically cut to give masks a purpose, and to avoid suits everywhere

[sly bough]

cuz players learned to deal with it, I would try to limit amount of suits you can get or make game levels deper. like with no suite you will dies really fast from preassure, with it you will have 10-15 seconds(unless it's abbysal suit)

[sly bough]

or cut masks from the game...

[carmine idol]

theres just way too much shit that doesnt work in this game all smashed together. high pressure, giant spinelings, and a combat loop where your sub just gets opened up late game on every fight

[sly bough]

yeah, I would make game harder, if I was dev

[carmine idol]

ive beat the game, and i wouldnt make it harder.

[placid iris]

This I agree with

The game definetly baits you into wearing diving suits 24/7

Or y'know becoming a husk

The recent organ damage change just encourages you more to never take off a suit

[carmine idol]

husk is op but its canon i guess

[placid iris]

Yeah

I've said it plenty before but for me the problem with it is because its so good "for free", you get whole crews that dont talk

Makes the game lonely

[trail latch]

yeah, players already heavily incentivized to optimize the game to the extreme on top of all that

[magic lotus]

If in this game absolutely anyone can just dump the diving suits all over the place then why not just allowing people to place the lockers so that at least those diving suits arent just lying all over the place alongside excessive ammo boxes and crates.
Also, quite a few ships in the game waste a tone of space. Take the humpback for example, why not giving an ability to just install some said shelves there or just placing some random decorative furniture along the campaign like chairs. tables, posters etc.
This doesnt really affect the balance itself pretty much at all. Just makes things look better.

[sly bough]

so, the chaos created by diving suit shold be replaces by sub chaos? it does not solve the proble, it moves. And it moves it in a way, that requires additional work from devs and frustration on subs not designed for it

[magic lotus]

How is a diving suit lockers placed around the ship are more chaotic than basically the same thing but instead laying around the sub doing metal pipe noises every minor impact?
And it doesnt require any additional work cause the mechanic is already in the game with makeshift crate shelves and plant pods basically using this exact mechanic on a stable version of the game.

[sly bough]

it's not more chaotic, it's same chaos.

take Typhon 1, you would probably like to install some diving lockers near lower airlock, but if you do so, you will have to layer locker on shelfs/ladder/<insert object> which probably will make thise items more difficult to access.

If you install lockers in front bottom, you have space for 2-3(harming look), but this way you have to run a long way to airlock

[magic lotus]

Is it much different from just dumping those diving suits in fabricator's/leaving them on the floor? You now just have an option to add a diving suit locker in a vacant space if you wish to do so. You portain it as if it was implemented devs would make you place 25lockers in every compartment but in reality you can just use some empty walls that there are a lit of on other subs that you deliberately dont mention whatsoever that would actually benefit from having the option to place said lockers in absolutely useless empty spaces while your typhon doesnt have to build any new furniture if you think its ugly.

For example humpback has meters of wasted space all over the sub that could be used for additional lockers so that people dont have to cram containers into every single slot of a few existing cabinets in previous update or in the fabricator/deconstructor boxes as well as leaving the diving suits bouncing around near captains terminal.

And its not gonna impact actual difficulty whatsoever.

An even better example is orca. This sub has approximately the same volume as dugong but has only 3 diving suit shelves on the entire sub alongside a huge amount of places where the craftable lockers would fit perfectly and where there are already a few diving suits laying on the ground in the ongoing campaigns.

After all, this proposal doesnt change balance whatsoever and doesnt add any mandatory things you may dislike so whats your problem?

[magic lotus]

I think they should make on ground penalties for suits more severe. Kinda like with the slipsuit. You are gonna have no problems in water but on a dry sub its pain to wear.
Also pucs (unless they changed anything about it since the last time I got to use it) just ruins the pressure mechanic as a whole since you can just never take it off and not even be bothered by oxygen/burns or radiation.

I think that they could just make every single diving suit have a similar movement penalty on the ground or maybe just a little bit less severe.

[placid iris]

👍

[sly bough]

now I agree, cuz before I didn't even think about other subs, not like I wanted to avoid them

[wintry bough]

After all, this proposal doesnt change balance whatsoever and doesnt add any mandatory things you may dislike so whats your problem?
Submarines are partially balanced by those small inconveniences. Every ammo shelf, every diving suit locker, every cabinet allows you to access resources quicker when you need them.

There's a pretty significant difference between ammo boxes of different types bouncing all over the place, stacking on top of each other, and the ammo boxes that are fixed in place, clearly visible on a shelf.

Same with diving suits. Oops, my suit just fell through the floor after a sudden large spineling attack. Oops, it got tossed to the other end of the room. Oops, I forgot to refill oxygen when I dropped the suit on the floor and it didn't get refilled automatically.

Barotrauma does need to further discourage storing stuff on the floor and it could make turret ammo take less time to fabricate, so that people aren't as worried about having 10 ammo boxes ready at all times. But allowing us to rearrange the whole sub is wack.

[sly bough]

[magic lotus]

Ammo boxes should be vunarable to water depleting 1%/second of their ammo while under water so the lack of "waterproof" ammo shelves will actually make sense. But right now movebale furnityre is just an alternative way of fixing the issue of meta being to stock pile on the ammo boxes to the pint where it can lag a lot

But I mostly wanna furniture to be movable like some tables, chairs maybe cabinets

Its not like I wanna be able to make an ammo shelf everywhere

[sly bough]

it sounds like something outside mentioned scope of this idea

not like this idea not about moving furniture, but you specified "I suggest making barocraftables as a vanilla feature"

which is not the same as whaw you said here

[wintry bough]

The discussion has moved to other related ideas since then.

[magic lotus]

Well, I wanted furniture including vanilla to be movable and then I got carried away arguing that ammo shelves and diving suits are not really gonna affect meta much
Cause I said "furniture" meaning mostly some decorations like bunks/tables/chairs/cabinets to be movable
But the counter arguments were about ammo shelves and diving suit lockers becoming OP if you can move them as well and I disagree with that cause everyone wears a diving suit 24/7 and has a shit tone of spare ammo boxes lagging the server already and making additional diving suit lockers and ammo shelves would only make the lag less without making game play any different then it does right now

And unlike barocraftables I suggested to exclude any devices from this proposal

The additional batteries/junction boxes/fabricators/ pumps would be OP

[wintry bough]

Moving chairs is something I wouldn't mind. It's bound to break some things (not necessarily balance-wise), but it will be manageable.
Ammo boxes taking water damage is massive rebalance to everything. Any kind of combat, the process of looting wrecks... Things that are completely unrelated to the issue of players making a mess on the floor as an optimal strategy.

[sly bough]

so, you're telling me, I've wasted my time on the internet arguing about thing that wasn't even a point?

[wintry bough]

You'll do it again.

[sly bough]

• it litteraly changes perception, now I agree with this post

[sly bough]

absolutely

already doing

[magic lotus]

Not I agree? You mean you dont or is it a typo to "now I agree"?

[sly bough]

now*

[magic lotus]

Alright then

🤝

[magic lotus]

Idk, its just the only idea how to punish people for dumping the floor with ammo boxes

[sly bough]

wrecks will have wrecked ammo that can be recycled to ammo, fixing the issue

[magic lotus]

Conserved ammo?

[sly bough]

yes

you got the point

[magic lotus]

They can also be stored in some waterproof container so they deplete only for the amount of time it takes you to transport them

[wintry bough]

I can feel the feature creep already. Solving problems by introducing new problems, which can be solved by adding yet more features. Code now, think later.

[sly bough]

yes

[magic lotus]

With a slipsuit its not gonna be that hard

[sly bough]

baro code is spaghetti anyways

so whatever

[wintry bough]

And dev time is infinite, yea.

[magic lotus]

Make 3d vr supported barotrauma 2

https://tenor.com/view/discordmemes-gif-25118502

[sly bough]

it's not like they will implement stupid things, I assume they take ideas and use them as inspiration

not like an actual ideas 1 to 1

[sly bough]

"rewrite the engine"
-Sun Tsu

[wintry bough]

Anyways, here's a plan.

1. Make ammo boxes lose durability from hitting walls. Huge incentive not to store them on the floor.
   1.1. Alternatively, make characters trip on ammo boxes as those slide across the floor, making gunnery into a mine field during any battle.
2. Make fabrication of ammo take way less time. This means it's more viable to store ammo as resources in a cabinet, instead of ready to use boxes.
3. Make sure each submarine's gunnery has at least 1-2 ammo shelves.

[sly bough]

well, yeah, somehting like that

• add ability to install chairs and tables on a sub

I want a tea party