#Balance

580 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

topaz plover
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Balance

robust herald
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Exploding coilgun ammo is pretty well balanced

topaz plover
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crawler swarm? ruins? moloch? wreck? pirates? iceberg? abandoned outpost? endworm?

Exploding_Ammunition_Box.png
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it's time

fierce leaf
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mid

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engineer gameplay says otherwise

dusty drift
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it's balanced, balance is cringe, give it IC-4 in their recipe

magic oyster
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return it to IC-4, i say

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i have no problem with explosive ammo being really strong

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i have a problem with it being literally cheaper than regular coilgun ammo.

robust herald
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Make coilgun less effective and/or make other guns more effective, coilgun becomes ammo cheap option, while stopping people complaining about chaingun/pulse being not worth it (even though pulse is still really good)

magic oyster
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i find chaingun is in a perfect spot right now tbh

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it's just explosive coilgun and pulse laser are too good.

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make piercing coilgun ammo more distinct, too. right now it's just better against mudraptors and..... that's it. that's its whole thing.

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idk maybe it could be in the same class as shredder chaingun ammo, good against armor and good for bleeding.

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might make security's exanguination skill slightly less useless.

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(although tbh crusty seaman simply needs nerfing it's too good lol)

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perhaps exsanguination talent needs a rework in some form. bleed is rarely relevant in the short term.

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antibiotic glue is so worthless.

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genuinely better to deconstruct it.

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i wish it affected all limbs.

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okay but you have 7,000 bandages

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the difference between 8 antibiotic glue and 8 bandages is identical

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you only need one bandage for just about any bleeding/burned limb.

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because you almost never have more than 30 bleed/burn on any limb.

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if you had 30 burn on every limb you'd just be dead.

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and burns are usually evenly distributed.

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bleeding MIGHT have more than 30 on one limb if you've been getting chewed up by a thresher for a while.

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and he happens to have been chewing on one limb. but usually slap two bandages on it and it's fixed in a couple of seconds.

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at least in pubs, you are never swimming in meds.

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because the assistants drink all the morphine.

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they saw the bruise booboo affliction

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this can only be solved by drinking 17 fentanyl in one go.

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pom should probably not cause so much oxyloss tbh.

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or perhaps should heal more than nothing at all.

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it's barely usable as booboo medicine.

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maybe buff it from 6 -> 10 healing?

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still worse than opium but like. a significant buff for it.

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i still do see pom farms even now and they're just not good.

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because you need 3 poms each and half the poms either explode on landing on the floor or detonate in a fire

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you can't have massive pom farms

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it's just a fire hazard.

left vault
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They need to rework the recource comsumptuon of the railgun

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Its ABSOFREAKINGLUTELY BRAINDEAD WRONG

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Not the damage, the damage is fine, perhaaaaaps the firerate could use a small buff, but otherwise its fine too

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Whats wrong is the raw numbers in comparasion to flak and twin coil:

wet ridge
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this is flak and twin coil being busted

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not railgun being bad

left vault
left vault
wet ridge
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yes, I am aware

left vault
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Check the recource comsumption for killing the same creature

wet ridge
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I know

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it's incomparable

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which is why railgun doesn't need a buff

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but the others need a nerf

left vault
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Well hmm

wet ridge
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railgun is a stellar example of a well-made and well-balanced turret

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however, when double coil and flak were added they were simply superior and it made railgun look bad

left vault
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Im thinking here, the flak perhaps can have a nerf in the explosive ammo department, but how can you nerf the twin coil without it just being a sligly above average twin small hardpoint coilgun?

wet ridge
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unsure

left vault
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I will tell you what, The flak having piercing ammo makes no sense, so i think the flak can stay as it is so long as armor absolutely negates it

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*The flak having penetration

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Making it so that it could take 3 shots to nake a raptor instead of a hitkill

wet ridge
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I've always felt sub turret balance was fucked

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they are all generalists that excel at everything

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which makes stuff like this a nightmare to balance

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you can't have it effective at x currently because everything except the railgun is amazing at everything

left vault
# wet ridge you can't have it effective at x currently because everything except the railgun...

You're right
Though there should be a work around, picture this comparasion btween the turrets to the firearms

Coilguns are like the SMG
(Average Firerate and moderate DPS for Moderate consumption)

Twin Coils are like the HMG
(Above Average DPS compared to SMG, though currently consuming the same thing,There for being a better "SMG", The way they should have done is to actually increase even more the fire rate but have a 0.7 as opossed to 1.5 damage modifier, so even though you are dealing more damage and killing stuff faster, youre actually consuming more ammo)

Chain is like the Assault rifle
(you could argue, worse than HMG, but since its a small turret, its better than a SMG, but consumes titanium)

Flak is like the Shotgun
(Above Average DPS, Greater comsumption than HMG, but no armor penetration (As it should))

Railguns could be just like the harpoons
(Way below firerate, Moderate Damage for a heavy hardpoint, below average recource comsumption)

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But they dont have a below average recource comsumption, imagine if each steel bar produced only a single harpoon, But thats the case with the railgun, no wonder the thing is terrible

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And im a huge fan of it, even though it cost me more, i use it in my campaings because i love those shells

magic oyster
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flak cannon is just busted strong is the main issue it has

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i do think railguns could stand to have their cost reduced to just 1 steel instead of 1 steel & 1 iron.

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since carbon is effectively free.

wet ridge
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they were in a good place

magic oyster
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i think it was part of the deconstructor changes

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wherein you get less out than you started

wet ridge
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huh

magic oyster
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though in that case for some reason they increased their cost, rather than reduced what you got from deconstructing them

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previously it was 1:1 steel, it got changed to 1.5:1 steel.

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instead of, you know, 1:0.5 steel.

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also, this was all before flak cannon and double coilgun got added so it's unlikely they though of costs for it at the time. railgun was the only big gun.

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it needs updating, yes.

wet ridge
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ah I see

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I wasn't quite sure when it got changed

hollow sable
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@topaz plover just download the EK mods

dusty drift
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Flak cannon at current state is awfully cheap, spreader is literally 1 steel and 1 phosphorus

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And you get like, a bunch of normal railgun shell worth of damage

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Also explosive flak need a minor buff or something

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That thing is very niche

hollow sable
dusty drift
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Chaingun is fine as it is, titanium become abundant after leaving the first biome

magic oyster
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there have been some rebalances in the ammo rework in 1.1

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although curiously explosive ammo, pulse lasers, and flak cannons were left largely unchanged

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i'm assuming it's not done.

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i'm HOPING it's not done.

terse sonnet
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What if every weapon got put into explosive coilgun tier

magic oyster
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the game would become easy mode.

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because explosive coilguns trivialize literally every encounter in the game.

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every single enemy always goes "oh, my shit is getting wrecked" and are just, completely stunlocked to death.

left vault
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Some said flak need a nerf in damage, I think flak needs absolutely ZERO armor penetration

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And a smaller limb severance

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Thus Flak wont be just a superior Railgun, it will be a bit more situational, but i hope not completly, because as brought here, all guns are generalist, and they soooort of can stay that way, but their gimmicks NEED drawbacks

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That might make flak equiparable to railgun in a sense that, if you need more flak shots to kill armored targets, you will consume about the same lead/phosporus equivalent that you spend in steel/iron/C4 in railgun

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But even then i still am afraid railgun might be behind

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Because unless they make it so that you need 3 flak shots just to nake a armored mudraptor, and the 4 is a killing blow to his nake part, railgun's close quarter defence equivalent, the canister shot, Consuming ONE LEAD EACH SHOT, will forever stay behind

magic oyster
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tbh i don't mind explosive coilgun ammo if it were appropriately expensive

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i like that the coilgun is the super-generalist gun, that's neat.

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but it shouldn't have an ammo type that is both super strong and super cheap.

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no gun should.

robust herald
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What about reducing the total ammo per explosive box

dusty drift
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uh.. 100 down to 50?

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25 BaroDev

robust herald
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The idea is

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Now its more expensive

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As you have less per box and have to craft more

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Its more maintenance

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Similar to railgun

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And now a more specialized ammo you dont want to waste

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So its still physically as powerful as it now

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Just runs out faster

terse sonnet
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Make it cost IC-4 and increase ammo count to 150.

Make Flak have 0 armor pen.

Make railgun fire twice as fast and default ammo cost 1 steel.

These are kind of what I'm getting reading this thread so far.

sterile ice
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I think flak should be buffed

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its really fucking bad right now

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if something is too close or too far your damage falls off so bad that it is just stupid not to use any other large hardpoint weapon

dusty drift
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Flak Cannon is fine, only half the ammo type aren't

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Spreader is the generalist, and delete swarm, Physicorium big damage

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Focused and Explosive Flak, I think they need buffs

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Spreader took all the Focused Flak's mean of existence, Explosive Flak is for gambling addiction

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Spreader also cheaper than Focused too, really they should have their recipe swapped

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if Railgun doesn't have nuclear shell or Endworm with high sever threshold, Flak Cannon is just a straight upgrade.

robust herald
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Flak can do anything railgun can do better

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Anything railgun can do, Flak does better something something

dusty drift
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Flak also braindead to aim too

robust herald
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I think the only thing railgun excels in compared to flak is pirate subs

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Railgun is considerably more fun imo though

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Nothing like hitting a giant shell into a giant fish

dusty drift
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But anything can delete pirate sub unfortunately

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It's about who sink first and how much damage you can cause to that sunken submarine, which AIs are bad at both of them

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If player sink, they will sink first.
if they sink, they die.

surreal walrus
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You can pick off targets one by one.

dusty drift
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If only focused flak has actual damage to compensate, spreader give pretty much the same result but cheaper, easier, and more consistent

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Hammerhead is the only one I can think of for focused flak, not Moloch because it too big, and it literally insta die at point blank.

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Because the Flak Cannon will just inject bullet straight to moloch brain

sterile ice
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as long as you have money to fuel a railgun it will do better than flak in any circumstance

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load up some compound n into a shell and it will do a cleaner job terminating swarms, load up a nuke and it deletes anything

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load up psychorium and you take down abyss monsters in 1 mag maximum

dusty drift
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Well, Flak can do all that without any of those

sterile ice
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all of it worse and slower yeah

dusty drift
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1 steel bar and 1 phosphorus delete swarm in 1/3 the railgun take

sterile ice
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it is really damn bad against anything abyss unless shells detonate inside of them

dusty drift
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While still having more for other swarm

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Railgun eat steel every shot

sterile ice
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yeah

dusty drift
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Need outpost to babysit it

sterile ice
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flak is a poor mans railgun

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we live in a transport ship europa

dusty drift
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If anything, Railgun is bad without Nuclear or a bunch of physicorium

sterile ice
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and everyone who doesn't use one gets punished

dusty drift
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Normal shell and canister are bootleg flak cannon, even explosive barely remedy it

sterile ice
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physicorium is just for lolz and emergency

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normal shell railgun is still better at taking down abyss creatures than the base flak

dusty drift
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But expensive because all those normal shell need explosives to even come close to Flak cannon

sterile ice
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you also forget that the flak has a range of operation

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if it is too close, the shell doesn't detonate

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if it is too far, it detonates too far away

dusty drift
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Too far doesn't effect anything

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Too close barely matter and it probably better than railgun anyway since it always clear swarm faster

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1 shot from spreader flak delete half the spineling swarm

sterile ice
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not really no

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it really doesn't

dusty drift
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You should test them more

sterile ice
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explosive ammo maybe

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I switched out flak because of how bad it was man you don't have to tell me

dusty drift
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I been through all these for many campaign now

sterile ice
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when you hit literally every projectile yeah

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which is impossible since the nerf

dusty drift
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It doesn't matter, it still more effective than railgun

sterile ice
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it really isn't

dusty drift
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Faster firerate too

sterile ice
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if you have low resources yeah it is better for sustain

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but if you have low resources by the time you get a railgun there is a skill issue at hand

dusty drift
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It doesn't need many fragment to kill creature

sterile ice
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you do actually

dusty drift
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Railgun need a ton of shell beyond what the rack in the sub offer to even make it viable

sterile ice
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1 projectile does around 21 damage

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so you really need to hit multiple fragments to kill anything

sterile ice
dusty drift
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Crawler, Spineling fled after get hit

sterile ice
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I mean

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should you really be needing a flak gun for killing spinelings and crawlers lol

dusty drift
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So those damage are better than using railgun at all

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Because explosive railgun need them to group up, very very packed together

sterile ice
sterile ice
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bigger aoe than flak

dusty drift
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It can't but more flexible than rail

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And certainly more effective

sterile ice
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not at all

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it needs only a single second of vision to dish out massive damage to any abyss creature

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and one shot to effectively take out most submarines out of operation

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whereas a flak uhh kills crawlers

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yeah bro sounds good to me

dusty drift
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My man never use flak cannon properly, I can't help you now

sterile ice
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that is an old video

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pre nerf

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in that video it has like 80% spread

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they made it have 270% spread

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what

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you can shoot inside at only a very particular angle

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and I don't think bolts detonate after entering creatures

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so you are defending flak is gun as long as something is hugging the gun directly

dusty drift
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Stop trying, Klaus probably trolling CaptainClown

sterile ice
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then a basic coilgun with explosive ammo is better man

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since it has the most dps when something is getting fired on constantly

dusty drift
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Explosive Coilgun is better at nearly everything anyway

sterile ice
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flak is for killing crawlers

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literally

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if you are struggling to kill crawlers that is a very bad sign

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focused shells do shit all damage

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they are trash

dusty drift
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Railgun need explosive to even deal with crawlers at all

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Or a bunch of shell

sterile ice
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canister bro

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2 canisters can clear out a swarm

dusty drift
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Canister isn't enough, too little pellet

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3 canister at best, more at worst

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If you disagreed you probably play in low difficulty

sterile ice
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2 projectiles from a canister can take out any crawler or spineling

topaz plover
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which is pretty bad all things considered

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logistics are ass

dusty drift
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And it literally 2 leads, Flak took 0

sterile ice
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yeah I already agreed flak is better for conserving resources

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not a matter of debate

topaz plover
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it's better for just reloading the gun in general

dusty drift
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Faster than Railgun too since Flak has higher firerate

topaz plover
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the logstics of railgun are too much of a hassle for canisters to be this weak

sterile ice
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being faster is meaningless if it doesn't dish out as much as damage

sterile ice
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ez

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you don't need to stun dead things

dusty drift
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Railgun has only 2 purposes, big single damage and nuclear, otherwise it just terrible

sterile ice
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it is better at taking out any abyss creature not directly hugging the turret

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than any other weapon in the game

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you can dish out massive damage to anything circling the sub with a sinlge second of vision

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whereas every single other weapon needs a concentrated fire to out dps it

dusty drift
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Anything can beat Abyss Creature just fine really.

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Skill issue if you can't

sterile ice
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then why are you even arguing man

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yeah ofc

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what if we remove hardpoints

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and remove ammo

dusty drift
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But I'd argue that Railgun has less case where it shine than Flak

surreal walrus
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Go outside and beat the monsters with a stick.

sterile ice
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just nuke every swarm

dusty drift
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Flak can handle swarm, single target and abyss without a bunch of managing

sterile ice
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okay and nuke can kill anything

dusty drift
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Railgun need a lot to even come close to it

sterile ice
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man do you have a difficulty understanding

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you keep restating things I refute over and over again

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its like a broken record

surreal walrus
dusty drift
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I have to hoard a bunch of Railgun shells pre-Tier 2 just so my Railgun will stop running out of ammo or needing fabricator to babysit it

sterile ice
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it isn't really that expensive

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steel is expensive????

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💀

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brother 1 deposit has like 20 fucking iron in it

dusty drift
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Coilgun also need steel ya know, and it certainly use it more pruductively than Railgun

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Flak can clear 3 swarm attacks with 1 steel

sterile ice
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urkikk will singlehandedly prove darwinism wrong

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man is still stating flak is better at conserving resources after I stated 5 times that he is correct

dusty drift
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Then give up BaroDev

surreal walrus
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Railgun is manageable in terms of resources.

sterile ice
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guys did you know that 5000mk ammo is less sustainable than 20mk ammo

surreal walrus
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:0

sterile ice
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anyhow tho nukes are really not that expensive, the most difficult to get part is probably ic-4 which you can generally buy off of most outposts or the resources to make then

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apart from that 1 uranium and 1 steel

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idk man

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okay look that is a skill issue

surreal walrus
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One thing I like about flak is that it's significantly better for a small crew, where people's time is very valuable. You want to minimize the amount of time spent managing the guns and railgun takes a lot of effort to reload.

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A large crew can handle it fine.

sterile ice
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for railgun you generally need AI on cleaning duty to sustainably shoot

surreal walrus
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Yea.

sterile ice
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or a fuck ton of shell racks

dusty drift
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The only reason I care to use Railgun at all is that resource is abundunt, and some submarine can avoid need it at all to the point of it become a burden

sterile ice
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I use it because 20 steel is like 300mk

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and I am not poor

small harbor
sterile ice
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to out dps a railgun in any circumstance using basic railgun shells with any other weapon in the game you need concetrated fire

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rail doesn't need it

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you see something for 2 seconds, shoot it and it is instant damage

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with explosive shells or anything else, the moment they move out of your fov you are essentially hitting them for nothing

dusty drift
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Railgun has the highest potential damage, but the thing is it's all overkill and unneccessary

sterile ice
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that isn't the point really

dusty drift
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Extra time save for nothing

sterile ice
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you don't save time, you are able to do damage to things is the difference

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if there is an endworm or a charybdis circling you and isn't hugging a gun

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a railgun can do sustainable damage to them

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but no other gun can't because you can't focus fire on them for long enough

dusty drift
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I think this one is depend on submarine

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How close are each periscope

sterile ice
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it correlates with it yeah

dusty drift
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It doesn't matter much in the end of the day though

sterile ice
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the sub I use has a dual railgun mode

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it swaps between railguns when you fire

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truly not op at all

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tbh I don't use it

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it has a magazine mod which is super op tho

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you basically click a button and it swaps railguns, so you can just go between canister and single shell

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or warcrime / normal shell

wary remnant
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Flak sucks against subs while railgun is really at blowing them up. Otherwise flak is better against creatures in general.

terse sonnet
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Honestly I would kill for the railgun to make explosive placed in them stronger

sterile ice
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c4 shells are really bad yeah

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you'd only use them for aoe, they are barely different when you shoot empty shells

terse sonnet
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Yeah

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But the resource consumption is ridiculous imo

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25 shots per box really warrants pricier ammo

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Frag actually worth yeah

tardy tapir
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make railgun actual railgun

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they should function like EK Heavy Railgun

small harbor
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What do you mean?

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I’ve never used that mod.

sterile ice
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yeah what do you mean

tardy tapir
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EK Heavy Railgun does a lot of damage
The loader is very big and has very big shells

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also the effects for shooting and hitting are better than vanilla railgun

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heavy railgun is the middle of the thumbnail

robust herald
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The final one the "fart gun" be like: yeah I consume no ammo and one shot a swarm without needing to aim

tardy tapir
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lol

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ek devs be like that

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but the heavy railgun is really cool

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medium SSL as well

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they would need some tweaking to be implemented into vanilla

robust herald
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I dont know much about those tbh

tardy tapir
robust herald
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It was hard to persuade my friends to try anything but the one shot whole swarm gun

tardy tapir
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lol

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i never used it

robust herald
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Like the laser rifle it was op

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0 cost after building/buying

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And incredibly high damage

tardy tapir
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implement ek heavy railgun to be normal railgun in vanilla

topaz plover
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just EK stuff, amazing items questionable balance

tardy tapir
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questionable balance yes

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ek dockyard and utility would be nice

robust herald
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EK is such a well made mod for sure

tardy tapir
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EK could be implemented but very cut down

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like removal of all of the infantry small arms

robust herald
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Shouldn't really implement a mod like that imo

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If its a numbers change sure

safe sierra
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Add Javier surgical bomb to game for realism

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Add Javier npc to game for realism

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He sells poison and fentanyl

tardy tapir
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add neurotrauma to base game

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make human hp have no unconscious state

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xd

small harbor
tardy tapir
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it feels more powerful

small harbor
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Then it’s probably over powered

tardy tapir
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like an actual railgun

small harbor
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Railguns in water will only be so effective

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In all honesty they should rebrand the railgun as a torpedo turret

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It’s essentially what it is

smoky schooner
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Lots of Ek stuff is too unbalanced, like that is a bit of the point of the mod

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The jetscooter could be cool of they add it but getting it with the engineer cargo scooter talent too

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So they would have to chose between 2 options

wet ridge
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ek was balanced

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balanced for a different time

smoky schooner
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As far as I know EK stands for OP

hollow sable
wet ridge
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harder and easier in different ways

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but I'd argue easier overall

dusty drift
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me playing EK is ignoring all the stuffs they added.

hollow sable
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EK is just bulk

sterile ice
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ez fix

dusty drift
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Barotraumatic doesn't do that much tbh

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Unless it conflicting with DynamicEuropan that badly

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There are a lot time it make the game easier than vanilla on their own

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The only part I found making it harder is the bottomless abyss

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Like, literally, the 2nd biome of that modded baro is as threatening as Cold Cavern in vanilla
..Maybe Dynamic Europan is to blame.

sterile ice
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killing 4 latchers at once is easy?

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what sort of gameplay are you having man

robust herald
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Dynamic Europa is to blame

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Rather than barotraumatic

sterile ice
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what about trapper spiders

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1 of those fuckers can take out an entire ship

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or crawler spawns literally multiplying

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if increasing mob spawns several times is easier than vanilla to you I don't know what to say

sterile ice
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the first and second biomes are unsurprisingly easy

left vault
# dusty drift Barotraumatic doesn't do that much tbh

Been playing barotraumatic+DE combo for years now

And while no, You will have PLENTY of opportunities to die, Barotraumatic definitively makes recource gathering trough monster loot and just getting rich plenty of times easier

From the titanium of hammerheads, to the extra cash of the overloot by increased creature spawns, and the loot of many vanilla creatures effectively trippling with the addition of their desconsturctuble body parts, not to mention the many very many sellable high value creature items (Shiny Spider eyes/Icecrab shells/Watchers Gel)
Getting rich in barotraumatic is insanely easy, by just looting the ocasional swarm and big monster here and there, i already had 200k before the third biome, having left cold caverns with beefy 80k

AND I WAS USING THAT WASTE OF RECOURCE CRAP THAT I LOVE SO MUCH AKA RAILGUN

And you bois still havent busted that literal free titanium/Steel/Plastic aka blow torch from the market @zenith nexus

rain cipher
dusty drift
left vault
dusty drift
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It actually totally fine though, less error than with more creature pack too since that's where most the error came

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The errors are from creature pack, not the barotraumatic itself

sterile ice
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have eight million mk if you want, a trapper spider is going to two shot half of your hull

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fully upgraded at that, if it is anything below you are guaranteed to sink immediately

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not to mention the hammerhead swarms that completely cripple the AI

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combined with abyss creatures, if you get a hole in your hull with those around you are guaranteed to die

left vault
sterile ice
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being a singleplayer game, I just couldn't maintain the ship by myself anymore

wet ridge
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vanilla balance thread
look inside
mods

th-448191550.jpg
safe sierra
dusty drift
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It all started from someone brought up EK Railgun

tardy tapir
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me

rain cipher
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To get back on track

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What's a good way to have harpoon guns being back up there with firearms?

hollow sable
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Maybe make them better for underwater use too

magic oyster
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i think they're perfectly fine where they are?

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they're the inexpensive weapon anyone can make

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because anyone can make it, it's possible to make good/excellent versions easily

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regular steel harpoons are cheap, but highly reusable. you can go for physicorium to boost your damage greatly, ahabs' spear for even more.

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with a security officer you can push this further again with harpoon coil guns. and that same security officer can also specialize into it with deep sea slayer, turning it into a monstrous gun.

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more visible harpoons would be nice though.

icy jungle
# rain cipher What's a good way to have harpoon guns being back up there with firearms?

I think Harpoon Gun is severely underrated just cause it doesnt have high RPM. However, harpoons having neutral bouyancy in water would make them feel a lot better. I hate the ritual of swimming to the bottom of a cave to scrounge for my harpoons, so maybe you could trade off some damage for a "lighter" harpoon that doesnt sink (or actually sinks instead of dropping to the ocean floor). I think theyre fine as is, but this little quirk makes life just a little more annoying. I do appreciate a low-cost weapon that does fine damage

icy jungle
magic oyster
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hmmmmm. depleted uranium harpoons.....

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that could actually be kinda cool.

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as a middle ground for physicorium.

icy jungle
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I for one would love more DU ammunition

magic oyster
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might be overly niche though.

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depleted uranium is shockingly hard to come by

icy jungle
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Really? I find it incredibly easy to get

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That's probably because when trying to stock up on DU, I use exclusively Uranium rods

magic oyster
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upgraded reactors are insanely effective though

icy jungle
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Thorium rods last a very long time. Double the duration iirc

magic oyster
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and people recycle them a lot

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so at least in multiplayer you don't get many opportunities to do it.

icy jungle
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If you've got a crew willing to mine minerals for you, you're pretty set imo

magic oyster
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lategame my reactor only needed swapping once every ~6 missions.

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and yes that's with 4 rods, but still.

icy jungle
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My crews are rarely starved for Depleted Fuel. I think it depends on the reactor's properties

magic oyster
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and the ship you use, yes.

icy jungle
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Some submarines have a weaker reactor that encourages two rods at a time

magic oyster
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orca 1/2 pound through your fuel rods super fast.

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that 0.3 fuel rate is wild.

icy jungle
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However just about any modded sub with a default reactor will eat rods as long as you can feed it

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Which is a blessing and a curse

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I'd like to see more applications for Depleted Fuel, so Depleted Fuel Harpoons could be something interesting

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Absolutely shred a Mudraptor

magic oyster
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physicorium isn't exactly super crazy rare lategame, to be fair

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honestly the bigger problem is getting a level 6 engineer.

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that's more a levelling issue.

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i swear it takes ages to get to that point.

icy jungle
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Pre-talent rework, you'd just dump medals into them

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And they didnt need to worry about general talents

magic oyster
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having some kind of XP setting would be a godsend

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2x or 3x xp or whatever just to make it so players aren't taking forever to get levels. current levelling rate is fine if you can actually consistently stick with a server.

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but the server may not consistently stick with you.

rain cipher
rain cipher
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When I meant bring them up with guns I didn't mean a dmg buff but small things like buoyancy, easier to retrieve harpoon maybe for variants etc are all good ideas

dusty drift
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upgraded reactor, and you will forget reactor's existences for a few days to come.

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I guess you gotta spam RFA somewhere to get them

magic oyster
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pretty much your only option yeah

small harbor
rain cipher
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That seems a bit drastic

magic oyster
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guns are presumably designed to work underwater on europa

gray summit
hollow sable
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So may I suggest guns don't work as well underwater

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Like reduce the range to the point it is worst than a cheap and shitty BB gun

surreal walrus
# rain cipher When I meant bring them up with guns I didn't mean a dmg buff but small things l...

If you miss with the harpoon gun, it should reel the harpoon back in automatically, for as long as the rope usually lasts. If the harpoon reaches you in that time, it should get put directly into your inventory. If not, it'll stay on the floor.
And another buff to go along with it: pressing the trigger again while the harpoon is attached to the gun (whether you're pulling in an enemy or only the harpoon itself) will cut the rope and reduce the time until you can shoot again.

hollow sable
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That is a good idea

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Also make it so if you are connected to a monster and it is larger than you, you move with it

surreal walrus
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Does it not work this way already? Like, if the target is moving with more force than you, you'll get pulled.

hollow sable
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I don't think so

surreal walrus
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Odd.

terse sonnet
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The harpoon will reel targets smaller than or equal to a mudraptor if a successful harpoon hit occurs and the aim key (default key: right mouse button) is held.

If the harpoon is shot at a target larger or equal to that of a living hammerhead or embedded into the hull of a structure, it will instead act as grapling hook if the space-bar (to initiate ragdoll) is held down while the aim button is also held down.

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You can entirely skip reeling in a target by letting go of the aim button right after firing the harpoon gun, this cuts the line immediately even if visually it may still look connected.

terse sonnet
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Making guns specifically work in air and water in the context of the game adds unnecessary complication to an already complex game.

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If we're really going down this line, maybe nerf the range of guns in water by half.

terse sonnet
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Honestly I feel monsters should get more resistant body parts

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Like the husk crawlers can get the same treatment as husk humans, receiving less damage to all body parts but the head.

The Charybdis resistant body should work against explosive weapons.

And the Endworm armor plates should do contact damage.

magic oyster
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these are guns from 400 years in the future of colonizing europa, presumably they've improved

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imo gun effectiveness isn't a huge concern for me.

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most of the combat takes place in water. nerfing gun damage in water would be a wholesale nerf to every gun in basically every usecase.

dusty drift
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click once and the rope snap immediately, click and hold will keep the rope

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I think make it pull the harpoon back as long as you hold the button will do.
why 2 click and when you can combine both into 1 click

magic oyster
surreal walrus
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Then I was confused by a visual bug, as BanterWaffle mentioned.

magic oyster
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maybe like a circle that fills in (like a spinning cooldown circle in most games) the more close the monster gets to you.

surreal walrus
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Circle that fills in implies that an input at the end is needed. It's a quicktime event indicator.

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But a spinning crosshair indicating reeling would make a lot of sense.

magic oyster
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ooh, literally reeling, yeah

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speed of the spin based on how fast the monster is moving towards/away from you.

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i do wish monsters like, tried to actually get away from you when reeled

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right now it's pretty much not really a mechanic. they just attack you directly and the reeling means nothing because they're coming for you anyway. and you also can't really stop them from swimming away.

surreal walrus
magic oyster
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it should also definitely make a reeling/zipping sound

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right now it's silent.

surreal walrus
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Yep.

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The gun really does lack feedback.

magic oyster
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would be worth putting this on github as a discussion page.

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or even as an issue and call it a lack of feedback

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the best way to push suggestions is to label them as bugs 🙂

surreal walrus
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Lol. I suppose.

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And to be fair, there is a bug involved, though that's a separate task. The rope can often appear as attached to your gun even when you're not holding the mouse button.

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I have to do more testing before I can submit a proper bug report. Testing software by day, testing other software by night.

dusty drift
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gonna lie, Harpoon's reeling use case is pretty limited, they do make dragging a tiny bit faster but other than that, the only one I can think is reeling husk out of the wreck into turret range

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I once saw a patch note saying it will now reel no matter if you're facing at the attached target.
Not sure how it is now, but from the sound it kind of silly now they take away the control off the reeling mechanic, originally you can choose when to reel or not without having to snap out the rope.

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Dunno, guess it allow reeling without swimming backward speed, but is anything that need it?

topaz plover
dusty drift
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They're good at dragging dead corpse though

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Well, if the harpoon manage to attach, armor or severed limb from the impact tend to prevent it from attaching

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Harpooning a dead armored mudraptor is a pain to try, need to go underbelly if the armor still there.

topaz plover
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I want spearfishing on small passive fishies

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and turn them into space sushi

small harbor
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Could be interesting if it yields material similar to plants

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Also fish would distract crawlers and mudraptprs that aren't aggro'd yet

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However they'd be fast and flee from everything. That way you need to ambush them to kill them and it your sub comes near they flee so don't distract monsters for lomg

plush nova
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My balance suggestions :

Using the railgun without nukes is trash, extremely inefficient for the resource cost and the damage isnt good for the cost. When you get the cheap nukes upgrade from the electrician tree I see no reason for using regular shells anymore. Increase the damage considerably of regular shells. On some of the big enemies you just waste 5x more resources bringing them down with regular railgun shells than with any other turret.

Typhoon 2 is a bit too strong wtf, 3 large gun pods and 2 small ones ? Geez, lmao. Give more guns to the Kastrull to make it more on par, sure it has a drone but it could have at least 2 large gun pods and two more small ones.

magic oyster
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kastrul also has 5 guns

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it's just a bad sub.

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it has awful descent speed and no ability to handle any flooding whatsoever

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not to mention the captain pretty much gets shotgun blasted any time the window is hit

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typhon 2 is definitely too strong. so is the orca 2. needs to be looked into.

plush nova
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Kastrull in concept is good but is very underpowered compared to the Typhoon 2, you get a drone and a depth charge and thats basically it. Afaik Typhon 2 has very good draining capabilities while also having godlike firepower pretty much

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I never played the Orca 2, only the orca 1, why is the Orca 2 OP ?

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Also physicorium shells for the railgun are even more inefficient, rare material for subpar damage increase. But this is largely due to the regular railgun shells already being outclassed by other turrets

magic oyster
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it's got everything, is very fast, has crazy-ass drainage if wired up correctly, and is just really versatile.

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it's a better than the orca 1 in every conceivable way -- and basically every other sub.

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also it's a scout which makes it good by default.

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scouts are kinda way better than all other sub classes.

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one of the big things that makes the typhon 2 SO MUCH BETTER than the kastrull is how sink-proof it is.

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the orca 2 has a similar thing through its thunderously fast drainage.

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can wire up the doors and ballast hatches to open when water is detected and it will literally drain faster than the sub can fill. because it has collectively 1800 flow.

plush nova
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Geez

small harbor
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Nice

plush nova
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Humpback and Herja are two subs I find to be very balanced because although they are fairly versatile and pack a lot of firepower they both have a weakpoint of very slow drainage due to their small pumps on the middle of the sub

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SImilar thing should be mandatory for Typhoon 2 since it has 3 large gun points

small harbor
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The humpback is the perfect sub for a husked crew as the flooding and trek to the dive suits is insignificant to them.

plush nova
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The only weakpoints of the Typhoon 2 that I can recognize is the vertical design making it slow to move around the submarine and it not having a depth charge coil

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Should have more for such a huge firepower afaik

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Winterhalter catches fire on its own and has horrible blindspots just because it got a research station lmao

small harbor
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A flooded sub can be navigated faster in with dive scooters

smoky sage
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I simply want more subs with bottom docking hatches DivingSkull

magic oyster
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tbh typhon 2 doesn't even need the depth charges

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depth charge implies dropping decoys to run away

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you don't need to run away with the typhon 2.

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you just kill.

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damn thing depopulates the ocean.

plush nova
magic oyster
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genuinely unsinkable ship.

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so dump.

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the front of it is virtually unsinkable.

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a molloch can ram into you and you can ram the bastard right back.

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smear that idiot against the cliff face

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what's he gonna do about it? make angry whale noises at me?

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bully that nerd.

plush nova
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I particularly skipped the typhon 2 because of its vertical design that pushed me away from it. Now im gonna skip it for being overpowered lmao

magic oyster
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tbh the vertical design really isn't actually so bad on it?

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honestly i find the typhon 1 to be more annoying to navigate.

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typhon 2 is very easy to grasp.

small harbor
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I prefer subs that are actually submarine shaped. There’s a reason terrestrial submarines are pill shaped. Underwater aerodynamics are even more important.

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Some subs would be absolutely terrible irl

magic oyster
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yeahhhh winterhalter is like whut

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or remora

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berilia 😳

small harbor
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Fun fact. The shape of the German U boats was because they literally were underwater boats. Their shape gave them faster speed and stability on the surface and reduced speed and stability under water. This is because they were on the surface most of the time.

magic oyster
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i'm happy it's gotten a good number of reworks. berilia might actually be not a horrible sub!

small harbor
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After subs went nuclear they only surface when needed so maximize speed and stability underwater. Not to mention who needs stability on the surface. Unless your hatch is open it’s not like you can capsize.