Unstable Transit

[woeful zephyr]

rank 1 stuck, and today wasn't so bad either

[nova light]

I just gave up after stage 10, did people really not try harder

[storm bay]

22 minutes after reset, probably only 2 people did a run

[nova light]

yeahh im going down

[urban bridge]

I was all excited about rank 1

then I was like "wait, it's the 14th. How many minutes has it been since this rolled over... 😦 "

[dire bison]

Whatever. Screenshot says you made it to number 1. That's good enough for me

[nova light]

immortality is a long and dangerous path

[errant dagger]

do i get this achievement after finishing a run?

[nova light]

what achievement

also yes

[errant dagger]

for to many mods

[nova light]

enough

[nova light]

I would like to leave now

[nova light]

the most fearsome enemy ever encountered

[elfin hawk]

out of interest, what difference is there in UT between z95 and z89?

I assume 89 is more artifacts, what else

[jade zenith]

z89 has double artifacts and you both start with a cruiser and can get more cruisers

might be some enemy stuff too, can't remember if mediums show up on z95, only did it once

[elfin hawk]

yea you get mediums in 95

[woeful zephyr]

m0Re CHoiC3s!!!11

[empty cargo]

gatling

[nova light]

only enemies that have appeared in that galaxy or earlier can show up, and only ships that have been unlocked in that galaxy or earlier can be used, although for weapon/hull mods I think are always available, not sure

does armor tank cruiser show up in g4 origin?

[shell jasper]

no

[nova light]

huh

so also only weapons and hull mods that have been unlocked in that galaxy or earlier too

[urban bridge]

I did good once!

[woeful zephyr]

not a bad rank history

[urban bridge]

why you so good at UT 😦

I need to win at a galaxy again so I can feel good about myself

[wanton wolf]

I'm curious if all the practice I've gotten in UT is going to translate well to the new galaxy. The objective is fairly different, finding the cheapest path to victory vs finding any path to victory, often with overwhelming force.

[woeful zephyr]

based on g5 I think it's very different

your FR spend depends on exactly how much damage your fleet takes, and there is no such thing in UT. if you get a win with 0 base damage there's no need to optimize any further in UT.

but there are other things too like deciding exactly what you're deploying for each battle in galaxies instead of just deploying all you have

[urban bridge]

should be a decent amount of crossover, but galaxy is more baout your patience in obtaining a perfect layout and optimizing scrap gains

[woeful zephyr]

yeah, aka more annoying 😆

[storm bay]

g6 at least doesn't seem to have a major split path

[woeful zephyr]

you're going off this?https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1364359547732496394/1373428232376025118/SPOILER_image.png?ex=685a7ef7&is=68592d77&hm=d0415052f8b5acb775558d2132c58382367aba29bb7046615df14846e433f859&

damn that's a long main path..

[storm bay]

yeah bottom right is the biggest detour

[woeful zephyr]

looks like no loops this time unless I missed something

[nova light]

hey the spoiler

[woeful zephyr]

wait can you spoiler an image after posting it?

how?

[nova light]

no you can't edit images sadly

[astral jay]

So I've never made it past Stage 9.....

[alpine hemlock]

• never take cruisers (adds too many enemy ships)
• take rares, rares are strong

only take offense:

• take damage/fire rate
• skip hull and range

We want only anti-armor damage:

• take missile or railgun
• never take charge laser
• get a new weapon for corvette (because they start out anti-shield)
• get a new weapon for fighter

After you have all anti armor, skip shielded mediums. ignore the all of above if necessary to do so

None of that is always the best choice, but it should get you to max artifacts pretty much always

[fleet steppe]

Range can be ok sometimes, but definitely skip hull

[dire bison]

Both would be better if it was a stacking % gain instead of a flat value. Would like to see how powerful hull bomb would get

[scenic lichen]

mono cruisers in the simulator can get me almost to wave 30 relying on hull bomb

[alpine hemlock]

hull bomb having infinite range is kind of funny

snipers really good against lingering snipers

[tired blaze]

I haven't tried CL yet, but with all the buffs its gotten, surely it's usable now.

[wanton wolf]

Only real exception to this is on single armored cruiser, then it becomes more:

damage
hull
fire rate
range

Because extra chip damage protection is worth it.

My highest is a 26 clear, but that was on duo/balanced/more choices

I'll have to remember the hull bomb infinite range thing, that's good to know.

[alpine hemlock]

huh, i totally missed that line - UT Charge Laser increased damage and reduced how close ships with it will get to their target

[river flax]

I LOVE barrier against Snipers holy shit

Easy UT today

[alpine hemlock]

i spent my instability on banked without checking 😦

[river flax]

RIP

No worries

Stage 19 is my best clear, a few days of not having to do it LOL

Why does it list x1.1 at the top if it's variable?

[shell jasper]

the top is the first level of it is all

[river flax]

Huh?

Like with 1 Artfiact?

[river flax]

What do you mean "first level" it has "no defined" level, no?

[alpine hemlock]

literally 1 artifact

1 to any power is 1, * 0.1 is 0.1

+10% is x1.1

[shell jasper]

right

I mean its there as an "artifact" of how upgrades show, not needed but easier to just have and sho wrest

[alpine hemlock]

this information is not really helpful here, the exponent is more important, but custom tooltip case to hide it would be work for sylv 😛

[shell jasper]

well it has to show WHAT it upgrades haha

thats main reason its sitl lthere

[alpine hemlock]

fair

[river flax]

Oh, I see

Yeah the 1 artifact assumption is interesting

Stated that way, I think the reasonable assumption is 1.1x per artifact

Which is insane for obvious reasons

[hearty idol]

Why they dont attack?

[empty cargo]

bug

[alpine hemlock]

save quit reload, should fix it

[hearty idol]

thank you!

[hearty osprey]

I got it too. 😄

Saving and quitting and starting the game again didn't work

After a minute or two they suddenly shot and killed it

[river flax]

We call it "Time Dilation"

They're shooting so fast that our perception of it is slowed down

Not actually time dilation I know

[hearty osprey]

It happens quite frequently

[shell jasper]

wait this isnt beam though

what uptgrades do they have?

[hearty osprey]

I thing charge laser

But I've also had this issue with the small fighers that had rail guns.

If you want I can try to replicate it to give you better infos.

Replicated it with this.
I do feel like that the burst isn't working anymore either.

Getting it in every stange with the mini rain gun fighters

Same once I reached the versatile rain guns

[shell jasper]

if you can make it happen nearly "on demand" in UT let me know

at first this was only beams, butnow its spread O.o

[hearty osprey]

With the mini rail gun I can make it happen on demand pretty much. 😛

I will try the charge laser again too

Hmm charge laser and charge laser sniper don't have it.

Can't reproduce this issue with missiles either.

[hearty osprey]

Having rail guns on the heavy cruiser seems to work quite well. It apearas that it's not just the weapon but the combination of weapon + ship type that is the issue

Nevermind I got it again with the versatile rail gun once I got the burst upgrade. Maybe the burst one is the actual cause of the problem.

[shell jasper]

oh ok Ill check burst

[hearty osprey]

If you want me to check out more let me know

[shell jasper]

burst being a thing is a good lead ill try to figure it out

[alpine hemlock]

wait, how does burst beam work

that's the neat part?

[shell jasper]

burst just doubles beam damage

[river flax]

I did actually run this one

Did I do so poorly as to not place, or was it bugged, or what

[fleet steppe]

Duo is pretty epic

[alpine hemlock]

duo cruiser hcruiser when

[fleet steppe]

looks like it's 5 corvette 5 fighter this run

[shell jasper]

should always show, so bugged or you did wrong galaxy or something

[river flax]

I totally did G5

[hearty osprey]

Still having it with the versetile mini rail gun once I got burst. 😄

[shell jasper]

on 0.5?

[hearty osprey]

THis version

[shell jasper]

womp

[hearty osprey]

It appears to be working properly with the charge laser.

[vapid marlin]

Fighters with teleport drive take Corvettes with them for some reason. I only managed stage 18, maybe someone who is better than me can use this more effectively

[alpine hemlock]

fighter teleport is a rare mod, fleet teleport is a very rare

two different mods

[vapid marlin]

never knew there are 2 different ones, thanks!

[nova light]

check if you are on latest version

[nova light]

conveniently there's a long pin listing every single one 🙃

[errant dagger]

ok so weird question, but my corvettes just jump on the back of the enemy, bugged?

[empty cargo]

fleet teleport drive

[errant dagger]

for fighters, yes

why corvettes

[empty cargo]

affects all enemies

[errant dagger]

oh so its new

[empty cargo]

"fleet teleport drive" and "teleport drive" are different

[errant dagger]

ok

[alpine hemlock]

needs a different icon honestly

[errant dagger]

this is my fav perk anyway, its instantly +5-6 levels

[river flax]

I am, and this was a few days asgo

[wild timber]

new ut feels considerably more difficult

feels like there's way too many ships on the field from the get-go so it's a lot harder to try to strategically take out key targets first

snipers in particular feel kind of overloaded since they can survive multiple cruiser shots starting from like stage 3 and you have an extra ship category diluting the upgrades now

barely scraped to a s10 clear

actually that's a s9 clear lol

[alpine hemlock]

last time he rebalanced the stage 1 base to not change based on the new cruiser

or something like that? does HC do the same?

[wild timber]

i have no idea, but i do know that s9 enemies can one shot the base from full hp

and that i fluctuate from losing 450 base hp to losing no base hp by tweaking a single cruiser placement

it's way too swingy for a roguelite system atm

if a enemy missile barely clips the base and gets immediately killed that's 100 less damage compared to if it gets to prepare a full volley on it

also my beam cruisers lose 1:1 trades with mediums

i think beam griefed this run

im gonna savescum probably

[fleet steppe]

do we know the rare upgrades for heavy cruiser

[wild timber]

nvm i threw the entire run to kill 3 shotguns so i could barely survive stage 10

i see that past stage 10 it opens up to a 3x5 grid again but the first 10 feel so volatile and they're the ones you're gonna be running 80% of the time

[fleet steppe]

how soon do you start seeing regen shield enemies

[wild timber]

i haven't seen any

im just getting disintegrated by like hull snipers

[fleet steppe]

oh the rocket snipers

that's gotta be miserable

[fleet steppe]

Stage 7 z69 easily beats Stage 10 Z89 right

so I guess that's something for lazy people

[wild timber]

stage 1 is equal to stage 10 z89

i don't realy think it's meant to be a difficult new zone, it's just meant to be like an entire tier up

[alpine hemlock]

oh god, the field is 2 squares wider

so you base is 2 squares farther away from the two surviving snipers on 1 hp

some rounds will take 47 years to end

enemies should gain infinite range 1sec after your ships die

just shoot our base it's fine

[shell jasper]

Could give base more hp

Wait what did i do for stage 1 last time?

[alpine hemlock]

as i recall, at first the cruiser counted as a full ship for extra enemy spawns

so it was effectively +20FR but also starting harder and scaling from there

which i think you nerfed to being the same spawns so it was literally just before with a free extra cruiser?

maybe im hallucinating.

About making the base more durable, idk. it's good in that it gives you a chance to come back

but a lot of the time i feel like it would just be an extended lose state

sometimes you lose on layout, which is when base HP saves you, but usually you lose on stats

"no extra ships" runs are already funny that way

you sometimes get to zombie an extra sector or two after you "lose" because 4 enemies cant kill your base

[wild timber]

+ship feels really bad in the first 10 stages, it's already cramped as-is and you lose even more flexibility every 3rd stage

and yeah the cruiser thing

stage 1 starting with like 8/10 enemy squares filled

is kind of bad for flexibility lol

[shell jasper]

Huh I don't remember what I did I'll have to check lol

[wild timber]

you just watch your cruisers tunnel on the 4 packs of swarmers and the 1 sniper in the back row kills everyone

bc you didn't get any missile weapons

[alpine hemlock]

you might have to RNG us a starting squad

or let us draft one

so we can start with less than the full crew

[wild timber]

i would like to just sell my ships for more upgrades

[alpine hemlock]

well sure, but ship count is your card game "deck size"

we know from duo/mono fewer ship types is power

[shell jasper]

I could just do 4 ship starts

[wild timber]

3 choices feels like too little now

[alpine hemlock]

trading in extra duplicate ships could be a thing i guess

[shell jasper]

Could also axe or reduce additional ships

[alpine hemlock]

you could also roll "3x small and one of the cruisers" or "both cruisers and a small" for example

[wild timber]

start with larger grid, more choices per upgrade, and either more upgrades per stage or axe enemy base stats

paired upgrades would be interesting yeah

idk if the previous UT was too easy, where you just blindly clicked damage up and almost always got to stage 10 even if you had to get bailed out by base's hp cushion like once or twice

but considering it consumes an instability even if you fail, it just feels bad

[alpine hemlock]

it was pretty easy, 10 wasnt 100% free but you had to do something "wrong"

[shell jasper]

Oh I did up complexity
Aka more enemy types sooner

[alpine hemlock]

but i think that's actually good balance, the reward for being "good" doesn't need to be more artifacts

[shell jasper]

Maybe u should revert that

I

[wild timber]

well like, the thing is that the grid is so small that you can't really react to enemy layout much

[fleet steppe]

but is it sustainable for the next galaxy

[alpine hemlock]

sticking with 3-4 starting ships on the 10 slot makes sense

[wild timber]

this is stage 1

and you keep getting more ships every 3rd stage

you always see enemies at 8/9 squares full

not much breathing room anymore

[alpine hemlock]

yeah i don't think we want 7 "spawn point" starts

[wild timber]

i feel like missiles might be overstatted too but it's hard to tell right now

[alpine hemlock]

or at least, make it a mod. "full house" to go with duo/mono

a sometimes food

[wild timber]

it's also silly that cruisers with beam still lose to bulwarks on like stage 5

[alpine hemlock]

for missiles i imagine it's partly that the enemy had no aoe before, so our fighters and corvettes* were objectively better platforms for having more bodies

when they're all reduced to a hunk of stats

[wild timber]

well, the missiles are shredding cruisers

[shell jasper]

Hmm beam for buffed last second too, though only slightly. Should do ok vs bulwark

[wild timber]

so i don't actually know what an antimissile ship is supposed to be

we don't have any mods starting out

no armored cruiser etc

so it's very hard and unreliable to try to play around the new enemy types

increased complexity on its own is fine, but we don't have tools to actually engage with it

especially early on, given the roguelike nature of ut

[alpine hemlock]

i think one missing element is a way to draft a tank specifically

[wild timber]

also i do think you should see how other people are dealing with ut atm

because i only did 3 runs, 2 of them savescummed

[alpine hemlock]

+hull is underpowered, but also importantly it's better on already good ships that do your damage

like all mods

[wild timber]

the diminishing return thing was nice but it feels a bit too gradual and probably only palpable at high stages

[fluid solstice]

I have left my banked stage clear at 7 after my first few UT runs because it was very easy to get scuffed around stage 7 anyways

[alpine hemlock]

so i want like a "++++++hp -----damage" mod

[wild timber]

yea, i did notice the baseline is permanently s7 now

i'm ok with that, if stage 10 is still consistently reachable with good active play
i'm just not convinced that's the case atm

[alpine hemlock]

if the initial impression is "it's a little hard" and "it's a little cramped"

probably should fix the second one first, cause that spins the wheel on difficulty

[wild timber]

i scummed 3 runs to get to stage 10 before immediately dying

and that stage 10 was apparently a rank 8, though idk how many people have actually unlocked ut yet

[fluid solstice]

The only good/successful run I had was duo ships both being the cruisers, haven't gotten above 11 on anything else

[alpine hemlock]

duo is cheat mode, this is known

[wild timber]

that bodes ill

[fluid solstice]

I'm not great at optimizing Fleet nor do I switch around the layout that much so take it with a grain of salt

[wild timber]

i mean frankly being in the discord at all is gonna put you in the top 50 percentile baseline

just the nature of how community engagement works

[shell jasper]

Mini got high in testing i wonder if some breakpoint occurs or of it was just various bugs and minor tweaks that have compounded

[wild timber]

@nova light reveal your secrets

[shell jasper]

Oh there was a bug that buffed beam for a while

And testing was focused on that

Sup might be big chunk

Bed now so figure out the way to go and can probably do it tomorrow

[fluid solstice]

In Sylv we trust 🙏

[wild timber]

prayge

[alpine hemlock]

limit normal runs to fewer than all 5 ship types seems like a no brainer to me

[wild timber]

the thing is, what if you get limited to like, no normal cruiser

[alpine hemlock]

the question would be, is a "6 point" spawn with both our heavies like "cruiser hcruiser fighter corvette" too much

[wild timber]

how do you handle missiles at that point

[alpine hemlock]

raw power, dont draft them

but yeah if the "real" answer is a mod, at least two ships should have access imo

[alpine hemlock]

ECM mod: Enemy missile projectiles have a 50% chance to miss your fleet, provided that any ship with this mod survives.

(to avoid rng, literally every other missile launched misses)

[sick yacht]

New UT is hard, had to do multiple tries for a stage 10 clear

[storm bay]

stage 10, 14th

[wild timber]

oh hey darg

did you reinforce

[river flax]

Time to give us BANISHES and REROLLS

[wild timber]

unironically that would be fun

[river flax]

Make it a galaxy 14 upgrade

+1 reroll

EZ

[shell jasper]

you guys were spposed to solve this for me while I was sleeping

[river flax]

You were supposed to have Galaxy 7 ready a week ago

Use ChatGPT to generate the grid

Totally won't be complete horseshit

[wild timber]

sorry sylv

i passed out for 11 hours

[shell jasper]

so uh...
more base hp
4 ships randomly choosen (1 of each)
maybe a reroll on upgrades?

or the grid could start wider with 5 ships

I dunno how much that actually does though

[alpine hemlock]

i think maybe it should be "5 enemy small ships" worth of ships?

cruiser hcruiser + 2 might still be too crowded

[shell jasper]

hmmm I dunno, an occasional extra big one might be fine, still 1 less then now

[river flax]

Do you "have" to start with 1 of the ships in order to be able to get more

Dunno if this is a good idea, but maybe be able to "unlock" the missing ship if you need it (if the programming allows it)

But that dilutes the upgrade pool

[shell jasper]

nope it can just show up and you can be brave nd take it to futther dilute your choices lol

[river flax]

I mean you might need it

[shell jasper]

well if do 4 ships dont need to increase base hp I guess

[wild timber]

depends

how much damage does a single like, s8 missile do to the base

80?

or a bulwark i guess, since those were pretty much impossible for me to deal with even with beams

[shell jasper]

S8 missiles are 3.35 per missile and 8 so 28?

[river flax]

3.35*8 = 26.8

[shell jasper]

ill just do 4 ships and not increased complexity from last one and se ehow she goes

[river flax]

Alright you skibidi sigma Sylv

[obsidian glade]

🤔

[river flax]

Also not a big deal

But this never showed up

Dunno why

For April Fool's next year can you make it like

Mono extreme no choice fragile no extra ships

[shell jasper]

an april fools UT setup would be pretty funny

[lunar ivy]

Row C at stage 11

[shell jasper]

oh you got to 11? ok its easy enough no changes

[lunar ivy]

no pls nerf I want to bank more than 1 day

But 11 was actually impossible

[shell jasper]

dont owrry

[wild timber]

nice

[nova light]

they don't exist, it's unfair

[nova light]

I'll plop the ability int he compedium

done

[nova light]

that's dirty because you can't adapt to enemy types that early

[nova light]

hull bomb stonks

[nova light]

probably, I was mostly running beam and finding various bugs around it that we didn't really look at other things (and because no other testers play UT apparently)

although I did mention getting shanked on stage 3 after selecting beam laser as an option as that's when all the enemy types come out and woe befall you, beam laser is not good on armored skirmishers

also has anyone seen the grid slot buffs yet

[wild timber]

tbh i have no idea what is good on armored skirmishers stage 3

[nova light]

was also testing those

[wild timber]

i didn't know those existed so probably not

are they s10+ only?

when the grid expands?

[nova light]

huh

no, I got them as early as stage 2

[wild timber]

well, the first seed of today has nothing leading up to stage 10 at least

[nova light]

🤔

[wild timber]

i think everyone just died before getting past stage 11

ok a few people got past stage 11 while i was sleeping

[nova light]

sylv did buff the spawn rate of them for testing and then nerfed it later, but I still saw at least half a dozen on the way to stage 10

should probably check that

[wild timber]

can they spawn stage 1

could just spam simulation if so

[nova light]

armor tank is also available on heavy cruiser :P

[nova light]

pretty sure not that early

[nova light]

50 FR of starting ships 😛

[river flax]

Today's G6 has Rare then Very Rare immediately?

People were struggling on this 10?

I got to 14 with no issues whatsoever?

Ayyy I'll take it

Oh, it's the 29th, that's why

Do you unlock this upon clearing G6 or upon clearing your first G6 UT or what

[shell jasper]

first G6 UT

well now, when g6 ut unlocks

[river flax]

Ah, I see

[wild timber]

you have to restart game i think

my UT options before and after the savescum yesterday were different

showed 3/7 options instead of 4/8

[shell jasper]

It wont update what it was before until nex tone is set so ya

[edgy musk]

I think I am cooked unfortunately 😔
good run though

[lunar ivy]

Losing to 2 ships staying alive

Duo modifier is a massive buff

[empty cargo]

mono in standard when

[urban bridge]

noooooooooo versatile railgun. WHY

😮

double tap, duo, teleporting fightrfs, fleet buffs, what is this run

if only I could get more burst fire on my double tap...

that's... a coup[le artifacts

[river flax]

Why is that a bad thing

[urban bridge]

because I didnt want to spawn shield enemies

[alpine hemlock]

unless it's changed, it doesn't

versatile rail gun counts as anti armor

for spawns

and gives you some play against the 1 shield spawn you still get when you're all anti-armor. i prefer it to the other one

[nova light]

yeah, versatile is actually good

[nova light]

note that the damage type display is still armor

[urban bridge]

orly? this great news. I can stop hating one of my choices

[knotty spade]

Can you make ut harder for more rewards after only g4?

[old hound]

i love versatile

[river flax]

Huh?

No, UT isn't ever harder for more rewards except when clearing a new galaxy

[lunar ivy]

I think they meant selecting another galaxy for 10x rewards

[river flax]

Ah, then "after only G4" is weirdly worded

It requires G5 completion, then G6, etc.

[wanton wolf]

Any suggestions? I just unlocked the new galaxy and I'm at the end of my first (pretty lucky) run. I'd like to see if I can make it any further.

B5 is 2x damage, A5 is 2x health in case it's hard to see. That setup was the closest I've gotten to cracking it so far.

[nova light]

ya ded

[wanton wolf]

I am indeed. But I'll take 2nd place for the day so far.

Fun run, looking forward to many more.

And the OMG amazeballs rewards that apparently just doubled my highest total.

[river flax]

Interesting

[shell jasper]

man what happeend

it went from too hard to stage 25s with reroll and 4 ships instead of 5????

[river flax]

I didn't need to reroll

Maybe it was too hard cuz the stats that day?

[alpine hemlock]

quick maffs spreadsheeting estimate of 20 mods spread across 7 ships of 4 types is about 30% more total fleet stats

than 20 mods across 7 ships of 5 types

quick maffs are wrong, that's why they're quick

less quick math says +10% more average ship stats at 20 mods and +2ships

which is still a decent amount

[shell jasper]

true, could just keep you ahead of enemy stats vs falling behind and thats the crux of the matter

[alpine hemlock]

and i was assuming a lot, such as mods are all +10%

[river flax]

Increase scaling every 5 waves after 10 👍

[shell jasper]

it doubles scaling every 10 waves already ><

[river flax]

Oh LOL

[wanton wolf]

TBF I was getting 24-26s on the previous galaxy on duo runs fairly regularly.

I was mostly just shocked it worked as well in a game mode I'd never played before.

[urban bridge]

and we're back to UT for the next 12 months

[upper swan]

the artifacts gained in UT, are those the artifacts used for galaxy upgrades in g6?

[nova light]

the difference is it's a duo run

[alpine hemlock]

yeah duo doesnt count

[wild timber]

yesterday gave like a rare + very rare + rare in the first 4 stages and today is a duo

rerolls are pretty strong though

[river flax]

No

[river flax]

But you said you "hadn't played it before" but you were doing 24-26 runs?:

[river flax]

1 year for G7 that better be some 300+ run GAUNTLET

With 20 sectors of content and 2 new system reworks

[urban bridge]

probably 16 months

[nova light]

[alpine hemlock]

time to make an automated galaxy generator

[shell jasper]

doable, but the reason galaxies are jenjoyable hignges on new stuff and new fight layouts with actual intentionaliity I think T.T

[brisk lantern]

[astral jay]

The illusion of choice?

[alpine hemlock]

focus on the exciting enemy ship draft

[urban bridge]

the last one has fewer rows of ships

do that one

[remote rain]

Nice.

[river flax]

Grats

[fleet steppe]

hate this guy

man

tried to reroll triple corvette twice and still stuck with them

[alpine hemlock]

did you start with corvette?

it think it's always been biased against the ships you have least, but idk how that works when starting with 4/5

[wanton wolf]

Here's a picture of something I've mentioned before, not sure if it's intended that taking burst to 4+ lowers damage & dps?

I should probably file a bug either way

[fleet steppe]

thought it stopped offering after a while

[wanton wolf]

Boo, my 24 clear only got me 10th place today lol

[wanton wolf]

I accidentally took it to 5 or 6 once before I realized and it totally killed the run

[alpine hemlock]

he capped it, then he uncapped again

it's only an issue in duo anyway, or mono which is sim only

[wanton wolf]

Fair, but that said my best clears so far have all been in duo, so that's where you're likely to see it

And as I said in the bug report I filed, it's a bit of a newb trap, even though it does come with a warning label in the form of the DPS dropping, that's not really something people look at unless they're comparing best options, and if a rare comes up with two not-rares, this is the only case other than replacing a base power with worse one where picking the rare isn't the better option.

I guess now you could technically end up replacing a slot buff with a worse one too, but that seems exceedingly rare where this is pretty common

[wet terrace]

first time in z89, must say it went quite well. Should have chosen the last battle better, as I was dominating every one and so I slacked off a bit in checking it.

[wanton wolf]

Had basically the same experience but managed to make it 2 stages further with some creative ship wiggling

The one yesterday was my first time hitting the top 10

And my first run in the new galaxy type, so probably just a small pool of competitors lol

[edgy musk]

I think I am finally cooked
rolled pretty high along the way
almost died to 25 but managed to eke out a win by cheesing a kill on missilies

Duos is so broken

[wild timber]

why do we keep getting duos post-reroll update

makes it kind of hard to gauge the current balance properly smh

[solemn sedge]

oh no this is not a friendly duo

[shell jasper]

OG duo

[solemn sedge]

I mean, I say that, but then I just lost at 21 so who am I to judge

came shockingly close to winning that one too

[nova light]

it's intended

all part of the fun

[nova light]

basically skill issue tbh

things in this game require you to read

[proper wave]

Seems like we tied 😄

[vital oar]

ok now i need to try this ....

have to..
for the achvmnt

still 5 retries omfg infinite when

i dont wanna ss thatpart of the game :9 tired

[vital oar]

actually this UT is pretty fun - i like such games
and atm i dont need to figure out layouts with DUO mod standart just enjoy life

got this thing

[alpine hemlock]

i keep giving new charge laser a chance

and it keeps feeling disappointing

feels like anti-armor still meta

[vital oar]

lol how many burst fire u guys gathered

is it always viable or at some point when bullets are infinite it gives nothing

[wild timber]

idk what the buffs were but old charge laser was actually decent on fighters since you still had so many shots going off per volley

[vital oar]

this one

and i guess im dead

s25

[dire bison]

3 rows of missile fighters give my PC fans a workout lol

[shell jasper]

lol

[alpine hemlock]

burst fire is +1 projectile and multiplicative -30% damage

so the first one is +40% damage, the second one is +5% (still pretty good, hard multiplier with no diminishing returns)

the third stack is literally a debuff, it's -6.6% damage. it gets worse if you take even more

[edgy musk]

Sure does
31 is probably completely unbeatable isn't it
Just can't have enough stats

[obsidian glade]

I think it's time for GPU acceleration lol

[woeful zephyr]

Wait doesn't the game already use the GPU?

It definitely does according to task manager

[obsidian glade]

It might, I never checked. I don't recall seeing any specific gpu related code so it depends on what Godot does with the project settings it has

But it definitely doesn't feel like it does lol

[woeful zephyr]

It might be the graphics only. Like it probably doesn't do any parallel computations for the game mechanics on the GPU.

So idk how much of the missile calculations are done on the CPU vs the GPU.

[obsidian glade]

Oh yeah that's probably what makes it feel so software rendered. I was thinking about rendering only but you're right, all those missiles need to do pathing and everything

And I do recall seeing an OpenGL error at some point

So yeah you're right

[woeful zephyr]

Is this simulated?

Mono?

https://youtu.be/bZe5J8SVCYQ

This but 1000 times simultaneously in parallel

Make it happen please. 😆

[obsidian glade]

Rookie numbers!

[woeful zephyr]

Ok 1 million times

We may need a game update to make that happen lol

[obsidian glade]

I said it before and I will say it again

Pull a zachtronics and package up UT into its own thing

Unstable Transit: The Game

I'd pay for that

[woeful zephyr]

And then make a 3d version lol

Or a 3d sequel like game studios used to do

[obsidian glade]

Risk of rain intensifies

[dire bison]

Yes, mono fighters, more choices. If I get bored I run these to inch up in that achievement ladder. Topped out at 40, only g6 sim I've ran so far, so not sure how others compare. Think being selective on the tile bonuses will matter a lot, I ignored some in favor of the small bump in attack speed or power, and I think that was wise.

[alpine hemlock]

i did learn you need to be actually thinking about the tiles

defensive tiles on the back row are much worse

[empty cargo]

nice

h

nice visible base

[nova light]

sneakily nerfed from 2% to 1.5% rip

[vital oar]

do we know upcoming UT mods? r they predetermined?

[obsidian glade]

They're based on the same seed everyone has so yeah they're predetermined but I don't think anyone wrote a prediction tool yet

[vital oar]

ic

well after todays single run - next one is None mod

i dunno how it works -

[obsidian glade]

I wanted to a while ago before the UT rework, then I figured I'd wait until that's done, and then never went to do it lol

[vital oar]

maybe Sylv will just share so we can plan our lives ahead and not miss smth like Duo mod

also separate question - how to try increased difficulty? not in practice mode

[obsidian glade]

Well for actual runs I don't think you can

[vital oar]

how / thx

[obsidian glade]

You can only do that in simulated runs

[shell jasper]

uh its not like prearranged, just random seed I cant predict the next ones

well, I could probably if like looked into it but

[obsidian glade]

Well yeah it's not "predetermined" but it is predictable

If you have the seed and the code you can write a UT explorer

Which I wanted to do forever and then never did lol

[obsidian glade]

Since the seed isn't really random either it's just the date string no?

And then you just add the run number to it

[shell jasper]

heres the logic if someone wants to make one I guess

• Seed is date in YYYY-MM-DD format
• rolls with randf() which is a random float between 0 and 1

    # setup the rng
    var rng: RandomNumberGenerator = RandomNumberGenerator.new()
    rng.seed = seed_in
    # get the level
    var roll = rng.randi_range(0,len(db.unstable_transit)-1)
    #challenge_level = db.unstable_transit[db.unstable_transit.keys()[roll]].id
    # now modifiers
    run_modifiers = []
    # difficulty
    var rollf = rng.randf()
    if rollf > 0.9: # 90% for standard
        run_modifiers.push_back(Fleet.UTModifier.HARD)
    
    # choices
    rollf = rng.randf()
    if rollf > 0.7: # 70% for standard
        if rollf < 0.85: # 15% for less choices
            run_modifiers.push_back(Fleet.UTModifier.FEWER_CHOICES)
        else:# 15% for more choices
            run_modifiers.push_back(Fleet.UTModifier.MORE_CHOICES)
    
    # ships:
    rollf = rng.randf()
    if rollf > 0.8: # 80% for standard
        # 20% chance for duo
        run_modifiers.push_back(Fleet.UTModifier.DUO)
    
    # other
    rollf = rng.randf()
    if rollf > 0.8: # 80% for standard
            run_modifiers.push_back(Fleet.UTModifier.NO_EXTRA_SHIPS)
            
    rollf = rng.randf()
    if rollf > 0.8: # 80% for standard
        run_modifiers.push_back(Fleet.UTModifier.MORE_MODS)
    
    rollf = rng.randf()
    if rollf > 0.70: # 70% for standard
        run_modifiers.push_back(Fleet.UTModifier.BALANCE)
    
        
    return run_modifiers```

apparently theres a blank roll in the front thats not useed any more lol ah well

[obsidian glade]

I'll have to look into godots RNG class but it should be manageable tbh

But no, I don't have time for another project like that, lucky will just get mad at me

[river flax]

I'd get mad too if someone disassembled my code and wrote a PRNG predictor lol

[obsidian glade]

Nah lucky doesn't care about that he just wants me to work on my own game

[obsidian glade]

I feel like if sylv or lucky didn't want me to dig through their code they'd have yelled at me a long time ago :p

[obsidian glade]

Don't even have to do it ourselves anymore smh my head

[shell jasper]

lol ya, having access to browse code means you can make cool tools/things easier so I dont mind :P

think 1.0 might see that go away but dunno

[obsidian glade]

How so? It'll still be Godot no? And Godot is just extremely easy to take apart

If lucky moves some stuff to external C++ libraries those parts will be more tricky but the rest should still be super easy

(and hey then I at least have a reason to use my IDA pro installation again)

But this is getting a bit off-topic, my bad

[obsidian glade]

Oh huh

Well that's gonna be fun at the very least

[shell jasper]

lol

dunno if will bother just felt like something could do if really push for bigger reach/im a real game now thing

[obsidian glade]

I'm surprised that's not the default tbh

But I guess now I know what all that time spent gba hacking was meant to prepare me for

[vital oar]

i like UT overall
feels like i can kill some stages with fail choices

also i get like 4k arts even for starting waves so feels ok

once per day not enough:(

[vital oar]

what means max?...

[nova light]

max artifacts you can get from that run, i.e. stage 10 cleared

[vital oar]

is that true for all UTs with any mods?

i havent paid attention

ok reread tooltips

[woeful zephyr]

How did you get it above 6000? it's possible to increase it more even after getting the new b6?

Once that caps at 2.5x what bonuses can you get after that?

Something from new warp? Or new splicing upgrades?

[nova light]

no

achievements?

[woeful zephyr]

Which ones?

[nova light]

galaxy artifacts?

[woeful zephyr]

Hmm ok I need to get that one 😆

Is that the only one?

[nova light]

g6 origin

im pretty sure that's it

[woeful zephyr]

G6 origin?

[woeful zephyr]

Like the B46 one? Or a different one?

[nova light]

um yes

when in doubt, check stats & info

[woeful zephyr]

Yeah I'll check that when I'm at my computer lol

The new update added way too much active busy work all at once. What ever happened to the idle part of idle game? 😆

I could have reinforced with all artifacts nearly 2 days ago if I was a robot capable of playing 24/7 lol

[nova light]

lol

I didn't run out of fuel even after finishing all artifacts in g6

[shell jasper]

wut

[woeful zephyr]

Yeah that's what's going to happen to me. I should have over 3d fuel and only need like 30 hours

[woeful zephyr]

I assume it's due to not blowing through all 4d fuel at at the start and having it go up and down

[shell jasper]

the optimize vs fuel per run was off for g6 I feel like

actually kind ahard to get through your fuel if really optimizing haha

[woeful zephyr]

Yeah definitely

[nova light]

yeah lol

[shell jasper]

G7 24 hours of fuel and 100 battles

[rain kindle]

and someone will beat it in a day or so. and be back at eoc. 😛

[woeful zephyr]

A few thousand timeskippers will

So when is the g7 update?

[urban bridge]

I did good today!

[urban bridge]

Sylv is endorsing my sticker!?

[fervent turret]

so do I just suck or is z89 UT challenging? I've usually been losing at around 12-15 instead of getting to 20-22ish

[urban bridge]

what does it take to unlock z69 anyway?

[fervent turret]

finish g6, innit?

[empty cargo]

clear the final battle

[urban bridge]

z69 has been a bit easier for me than z89 was. But I think the two I've done have just been favorable modifiers

[fervent turret]

🤔 does z69 artifacts go to 3527.2 per UT?

[fervent turret]

oh, I should've looked at the gain multiplier

so yeah... 😔 I was holding fuel for my base but I guess maybe I'll just do a quick component production and get that last base node unlocked

cause that's kind of a big jump

[urban bridge]

lil bit lol

[pallid walrus]

Its possible to get even further

[empty cargo]

much further

[mortal otter]

Nice first ever run in z69😎

[civic dirge]

lmao nice

yeah I've been kinda sleeping on this new update.

[rain kindle]

you also unlock another "upgrade" in UT.

[fleet steppe]

mono beam laser is pretty funny

[fervent turret]

when did this show up?

that hasn't always been there surely?

[obsidian glade]

#announcements message

[fervent turret]

I'll take it

...

-# don't tell Nem

[obsidian glade]

Lmao

[woeful zephyr]

is this the maximum artifacts per run you can get?

[rain kindle]

btw... i just noticed that with this new galaxy giving 5800-6187.5 artifacts, spending resources in UT, for say synth, gives nearly 70% increase in speed! this is up from like 7% it used to give pre-update. Is that the intended effect ? It makes UT very power. More so than Fixture (20%) and OD Tiering - which is 1900% but takes a very long time.

[nova light]

they fall off very quickly

[rain kindle]

yeah. i just realized/remembered that.. the more you spend in UT, the less effective it starts becoming.

[woeful zephyr]

It's no longer linear

According to the tooltips anyway

[upper spade]

Damn, how?

Feeling like I focus on the wrong things when it comes to the upgrades

[woeful zephyr]

Finish g6 basically

Nothing much else to it

Well finish the artifacts. Don't need to finish the scrap nodes or g6.

[alpine hemlock]

fleet teleport was always a meme but it's impossibly bad now

[empty cargo]

fun right

[alpine hemlock]

ships still use their preferred size targets, so your large ships jump to bulwarks and do nothing all fight

prioritizing enemy mediums wasnt so bad in comparison

oh he teleport beams are kind of comical

you can maintain lock

[nova light]

teleport beam fighters is a weird not quite a combo

[fleet steppe]

How do people feel about slot upgrades

[fervent turret]

very hard to figure out

[fleet steppe]

First one usually seems pretty valuable to me but after that it's a toss up on if I can plan around two

[fervent turret]

is this a candidate for reroll? lol

I kinda want to find out how bad beams are on fighters but I think I can save that for practice run

[fleet steppe]

Rail Gun is ok

Usually prefer missiles on everything

If you don't want railgun then reroll

[nova light]

I tried beam laser fighters and promptly died on stage 12

completely could not kill a bulwark that had missiles sitting behind it

[alpine hemlock]

overall i do like that there are enough choices now that the drafting is less obvious

pick the one that does the most damage is still mostly correct but now there are slot upgrades and so on to think about

[vital oar]

does fire rate has any impact n charged lazors?

it doesnt show dps increase

[shell jasper]

it does, not sure why it wouldnt show dps increase

[past wing]

it's bad, even upgraded for fast beams it still sucked 😛

I dislike charged lasers tbh 🙂

they worked ok for G6 but in UT I prefer dakka or missiles

[vital oar]

big thx, it doesnt show me so i thought this charging ramping thing works differently - i dunno these words sorry
btw that is charged laser followed by rapid charged laser if u need that info

[shell jasper]

Oh, o guess only damage shows dps I'll fix that

[shell jasper]

currently modifier odds are:

• 10% Hard
• 15% Less Choice OR 15% More Choice
• 20% Duo
• 20% No extra ships
• 20% More Mods
• 30% Balance

ooooooooh wait, beam laser, no fire rate no work on beam laser, uh, I should amke it work though lol

or well it does, but miniusculy

[dire bison]

Hey guys, how is UT reward calculated? I see the multiplier in the Stats and Info page (4.13x for me), but not sure what is being multiplied

[fervent turret]

do the modifiers change the way the enemies scale at all?

like secretly?

[shell jasper]

just hard

[nova light]

so is this for like, just G6 UT or UT in general
the only change is +10% chance for balance (ew)

[shell jasper]

I dunno copied old one over lol

[nova light]

lol

unpin the other one then?

[civic meadow]

what's the best way to gun for the "clear stage 20"? Searching has been difficult to find an answer. I assume it's simulation with more choices, and more mods selected, but is z95 or 89 easier? and does difficulty make hitting 20 easier, or is standard actually easier for those purposes?

[nova light]

mono

is really op

[civic meadow]

oh that makes sense

[alpine hemlock]

15 artifacts per stage cleared, up to 10 stages

times artifact multiplier (4.13x), times galaxy multiplier (100x after g6)

speaking of that lets us back out that the artifact multipler is actually 4.125

[dire bison]

Cool, thanks 🙂

[tacit cloud]

barely alive

[river flax]

https://tenor.com/view/aha-ha-ha-ha-stayin-alive-robin-gibb-barry-gibb-maurice-gibb-bee-gees-gif-19538967

[nova light]

'tis but a scratch

[fervent turret]

is there a list anywhere of what weapon upgrades can be?

was wondering what the other beam option was, found it

[vital oar]

how to complete this freaking beat stage 10 on expert???

oof im failing miserably

actually nvm 🙂

[shell jasper]

haha grats

[alpine hemlock]

however single armored cruiser interacts with HC, it's insane here with barrage missiles

i dont remember it being a straight damage buff before

but here the increase is more than double

[tiny marlin]

Are you sure these odds are working correctly? For z69, 6 days of the last 7 have had "No Extra Ships" modifier...

[shell jasper]

I think its onot calculating the ship reduction properly for dps is all.

[shell jasper]

dont see why it would be broken, works afaik

[tiny marlin]

Not shown: 07-02 was also "No Extra Ships", and I'm pretty sure several before that but I only started paying close attention yesterday...

[alpine hemlock]

the dps on mods like this is the per-ship dps, which is fine? but 330.22 / 2 = 165.11

which is still +13% more than 145.15

[shell jasper]

its meant to be a slight increase. less total turrets is always worse

[alpine hemlock]

i see

[vital oar]

u might wanna delete the other pin

[shell jasper]

Oh ya

Can't do on mobile it seems

[river flax]

First try

[nova light]

it's such a shame that armor tank armor doesn't benefit from 2x health grid slot buffs, despite the damage block normally being 1% of hull

to be fair, it still gets the 2x hp and 2x damage block as well is really strong

[river flax]

HUH?

[nova light]

it's the "fuck swarmers" ability

heavy cruiser exclusive

sylv shadow nerfed it from 2% to 1.5% hull

[wild timber]

range of 500 is a little sadge

[nova light]

tbf it hits everything in range so imagine if it had infinite range like hull bomb

it gets rid of swarmers which is nice

[fleet steppe]

I'm not super sold on it

Swarmers can demolish your heavy cruisers if the timing of the pulse is off

Still probably worth picking

[nova light]

good thing armor tank works on heavy cruiser too

[fleet steppe]

Idk if it's me but heavy cruisers seem more prone to double target the same enemy than regular cruisers

[nova light]

im pretty sure it's because their projectile speed is lower

[fleet steppe]

I guessed it was their movement speed causing targeting issues, didn't know about the projectile speed

[wild timber]

heavy cruisers should have the normal s turret retargeting where they just mark a guy as dead if a projectile in motion is gonna (over)kill it

[fervent turret]

yeah but what happens when the enemy also benefits from it

[fervent turret]

umm... how is this fair

the sniper there just decimates me no matter how I set up

but also why is there so many freaking enemies

it's only fight 4 and not on hard mode or anything

made it to 12 but that did not feel good, I don't really follow how you're meant to cope being outnumbered nearly 2 to 1, that's not a difference positioning can really make up for

not until you have at least 20 stage's worth of upgrades

[wild timber]

new ut feels like feast or famine

[nova light]

well you have 3 cruisers which are each worth two small enemies

[fervent turret]

are they though?

[wild timber]

well, in terms of enemy generation, yes

still kind of sucks if you can't get missiles early

[fervent turret]

that feels like a 1.2-1.5 at best comparison early on

[alpine hemlock]

they're about double the raw damage too

but if you've drafted 6/8 points of cruiser, you better avoid drafting swarmers

if the enemy was mostly two ship spawns you'd do ok

[fervent turret]

I don't think it's even the swarmers there really being the issue so much as the thirty two mediums

[wild timber]

those aren't mediums

and cruisers handle normals fine

[fervent turret]

I don't think they are, the 'normals' seem like the constant thing that breaks the camel's back for me

[alpine hemlock]

i feel like they're always fine

they counter nothing in particular

[fleet steppe]

Cruisers kinda weird in UT compared to galaxies for that

Missiles help a lot for spreading out the high cruiser damage to a bunch of smaller ships

But Battle 4 lol

[fervent turret]

same thing again here, it's not really the swarmer, shotgun, or snipers doing me in, it's the stinking normals

basically forced base damage

and again, it's the normals here making this impossible to win

they take too long to deal with no matter how I position so the snipers just clean up

straight up unwinnable

[shell jasper]

you have to lose at some point ><

[fleet steppe]

Wtf bad game design where is unstable transit prestige

[river flax]

We call that "Galaxy Completion"

[vital oar]

i need some DUO or another decent mod asap - cause ive used all 25 banked runs

and i cant even reach stage 10 with this crap we have lately 😦

still got about 6 days to bank charges so i hope

[river flax]

How do you not hit stage 10?

[vital oar]

i dunno ive tried couple runs but die at like 8 or lower - usually to swarm enemies or snipers

cause 4 random ships and random bad upgrades i dunno

when DUO, etc modes apply massively to one type of ships so all ships got buffed etc

easy to get to stage 20 etc

well what do u want if some modifiers are negative and some are just positive boosts

ofc we will have less progress with negatives

---

ive made a mistake ive been using some of 25 banked charges when i could get to stage 10 at least on some days

[alpine hemlock]

drafting enemies is a lot more important now. it's not just "avoid shield mediums"

early missile guys when you have fighters for example, lights out

[vital oar]

now i will only use such stuff if i cannot get to s10 that day etc

[vital oar]

well weve had no ships or smth like that and i died without missiles

thats ok

i just hope in the next 6 days ill get something good

or 4 days? im not sure how it works UT charges + Astrium

[alpine hemlock]

oh ive basically never ran when i had banked how does that work

if you get less than your bank you just keep the old one?

[vital oar]

actually if i get less than s10 i load backup save

so i dunno

but if u reach s10 and accept reward, banked stays banked and not spent

[nova light]

well yeah, that is going to happen at some point because enemy stats scale faster and faster the higher up you go, even if there's one single sniper you will lose eventually

[fervent turret]

I don't think "at some point" should be as early as stage 3 or 4

10+ is more reasonable but going from seeing how far I can go and getting to 20+, to whatever is going on there, it feels off

[nova light]

stage 3 or 4 is definitely wrong

but the generally intended point is to be able to clear stage 10 most of the time (but not all of the time!)

[alpine hemlock]

i do often feel like i hit a weak section early on. where you dont have weapons or good upgrades

i usually dont take damage but you do have to try a little, change around the layouts

then it gets easier and you steamroll for a bit, then it gets hard again until you lose

and like i said before, if you have a lineup with weaknesses, like 2 cruisers or 2 fighters, you have to pay attention to the enemy draft now

even early

[wild timber]

i feel like the 3x5 grid thing makes fights a little easier past s10 because on average you get less "unfair" enemy layouts

[nova light]

that's good

keeps the game interesting as layout actually still matters

[wild timber]

yah, but what i mean is more that we could probably just get the grid from stage 1 to mitigate bad enemy spawns

[nova light]

hmm true

guess that lets you get grid buffs on the back tiles earlier too (has anyone even seen those yet?)

[fervent turret]

I dunno, all I know is the grid buffs seem to screw me more than they help me, if anything

[wild timber]

barrier grids suck pretty bad but everything else is good

[nova light]

about expected

although since the b43 support has been buffed to two barriers, maybe the barrier grid can be two as well

it's honestly not that much better because of the old issue 'most dangerous enemies fire in pairs' but it's something

[river flax]

Barrier Grid good against Snipers

[nova light]

yeah but there's also just a like

barrier mod

[lusty ocean]

Did today's UT reset get bugged with a hidden hard/extreme mod?

[nova light]

what?

extreme can't spawn in standard and also they only affect the difficulty multiplier scaling of enemies

enemy types shouldn't diversify on stage 1 though

did you save scum?

[lusty ocean]

by save scum you mean backup before I try and reload if it's awful? yes

but that's what I thought, there should only be the grey 6-packs on stage 1... not a sniper, a swarm, and blues and oranges everywhere

[alpine hemlock]

not to mention you have 5 points of ships and the enemy has 7

[nova light]

yeah, if you savescum that will happen

wow, built in anti cheater :)

[lusty ocean]

Is that new? I’ve been backing up and restoring for a while on iffy mod combos and never seen it before today.

Also is it intended? Because if so, that’s just not fun…

[river flax]

"No Choice" should ban rereolls

[wild timber]

fewer choices should also start with fewer rerolls

[nova light]

[urban bridge]

is beam laser any good

[nova light]

not really, but its too variant upgrades are extremely good

[urban bridge]

I've only sseen split beam, what's the other

[nova light]

rapid

quick charge laser but beam

[fervent turret]

I feel like I start losing every time I take beam so far

also feel super, super, super unsure about hull boost (on cruisers/hc) vs damage boost vs rate of fire

my ships getting creamed too quickly feels like an issue, not having enough rate of fire for the inevitable being out-numbered feels like an issue, but the scaling is an everpresent issue requiring the damage boost

and a lot of the ship abilities feel like bait because ships start dying before they even proc to get value

I don't even understand what is going on here

this is fair?

there's such wild swings between fights like this where there's no hope and then next few fights can feel like a breeze

also very unsure about missile launcher on cruiser/HC, expanding the targets it can hit at once seems good sometimes but other times like it's just ruining any chance to deal with other 'mediums'

[alpine hemlock]

in that image your fleet is 4/7 cruiser and you drafted into 4/7 swarmer

idk if you should be losing on stage 5, but that is supposed to be a bad matchup

[wild timber]

i also wouldn't have taken charge laser with that lineup

normal corvettes were the closest thing you had to anti-swarmer

[wild timber]

unlike normal fleet, missiles are an overall dps gain over base weapon too

because they have high opportunity cost

[alpine hemlock]

i think missiles are just the best weapon

there are scenarios where spreading damage out hurts you but fights dont last very long and are very chaotic

and even heads up what you lose on mediums surviving with low health you gain on lower overkill

[undone kiln]

Is me or charge lazer , beam are just a trap

[obsidian glade]

Charge is pretty bad from what I've heard yeah

Which is funny given how strong it is in normal combat

[shell jasper]

is beam feeling underpowred? I think the upgrade versions of it are quite good but maybe they only quite good copared to basic beam?

[lusty umbra]

Did some random simulation run and I was able to reach 32 with mono barrier fighters 😛

It was fun

Unlikely ever happen in real run though

[fervent turret]

there's just too many quick-priority targets for beams, which are sustained-single-target-DPS-ramping-up-over-time, it's like the opposite of priorities in UT

even with the splitter it's just constantly overwhelmed by target-richness

lowkey the default weapons feel better than most of the options

[novel quiver]

every time ive used beam or charge laser ive regretted it

[urban bridge]

missiles are the best weapon imo. It's usually a race to destroy each other, and eliminate incoming dps more than anything else. Missiles can do that to 3+ targets at once with 100% dps at impact. Beams cannot 😦

rate of fire and # of targets are very important in UT

[novel quiver]

you get beam for your first weapon, fight a bunch of swarms, and take a bunch of damage lol

[woeful zephyr]

except it isn't an option for HC, right?

so what's the best choice for HC?

[urban bridge]

who knows, I havent seen HC yet lol

[shell jasper]

HC can have missiles

[grave horizon]

Yep, I've had missile HC

[wild timber]

beam should probably stop advancing super into the enemy's face at least

[nova light]

never met the rapid ramp version?

[nova light]

please implement the same charge laser logic, because they do pretty similar things to beam laser all things considered

[fervent turret]

well I have but it doesn't particularly seem any more useful

2x targets slow ramp or 1 target fast ramp 🤷‍♂️

[nova light]

maybe the burst fire issue made it seem stronger than it was

🤔

[river flax]

I tried to save scum

And this is my wave 1 when it was wave 6 before?

I tried to save scum cuz I accidentally selected Beam Laser but RIP

[nova light]

built-in anti-scum™

[river flax]

Fair fair LOL

Gotta respect Sylv if true

[fleet steppe]

Beam lasers have felt horrendous

Its way too easy for them to get clogged on the wrong targets, can't plan on enemy layouts ahead of time for it, and every upgrade put into beam ships means other ships are harder to deal with comparatively with their low target rate

[wild timber]

yeah beams are pretty garbage, tried fighter and corvette and it made those units unusable for the rest of the run

[shell jasper]

Even with second tier?

[novel quiver]

Never gotten to second tier because I died to fast after choosing beam lol

If beams had a bit more range and like prioritized large things or furthest things maybe they might be worth it (or that might be too strong)

Even in G6 most of the best runs didn't use beam unless there are just an overwhelming amount of those shield charge dudes

[terse night]

Charge lasers also feel bad. Most times it only works when you outnumber them. Anything else just gives them a lot of 'free' hits. IMO. They work in regular galaxy content because you can switch them off when appropriate.

[fleet steppe]

Second tier beams seem interesting but it's such a dangerous gamble to attempt even with a Duo run to minimize the time you spend with a basic beam laser (mostly because now half your ships are basic beams and it'll get you killed)

[shell jasper]

ok so I can uh...

up their base damage a little and change the closing in distance so they stay out a little more?

they already ramp decently fast for killing small stuffs or I guess, what is the key issue on beams?

[fervent turret]

being outnumbered is their key issue

I mean that's always been true throughout the game - you never go beams in swarmer sectors, you don't stick to beams in galaxy unless there's regen enemies or bases (and oftentimes not even then)

unless you alter UT turret behavior to enable each to target independently of each other rather'n all focusing nearest target always, I don't really see how you can fix it tbh, not without basically remaking what beams are to begin with

[shell jasper]

they do target independantly in the group they are in

well, for kill shots etc I mean

I dont think purposefully not firing when they could fire to kill something faster is going to be better overall behavior

[fervent turret]

their gimmick is single target high ramped sustained DPS

the kill shot logic just doesn't efficiently apply to that

I think the idea's been floated before but what about targeting settings for fleet battles, just in general? basic avoid/allow, high hp/low hp stuff

-# rip to the g6 spreadsheet if that happens but I still think it would be an interesting way to affect what's going on

[shell jasper]

im just generally against that since it so significantlly increases complication/combinations for clears. Its already a hot mess to find a near optimal solution to each battle, target settings that will cascade and completely alter fights, and still have situations where "dumber" seeming targetting settings win out needs a hyyyyyyyyyyper good reason to go in

baked in settings per weapon is more plausible

but still a little obtuse potentially there

[fervent turret]

-# that sounds you've tested this in a dev build 🤔

I think the other direction is toning down how badly outnumbered we are in UT

like, I've been recommended all-MLs from the very start

and it's always made me scratch my head because of how one-dimensional MLs are for armor + high amounts of enemies

but the more I've done UT the more I see why

I also said this before but between CL, beams, and railgun, all three seem like a sidegrade or down grade to the default laser/kinetic cannons to me... like I'm genuinely curious about if I could test a run where you aren't required to change the weapons

my suspicion is that that feeling is just the same root cause, being outnumbered

[alpine hemlock]

i think a key issue is charge time

the first target is ok, because they warm up before they get in range. but they switch targets SO slow

all target the same ship, ramp up, it dies.... everybody sit there doing nothing for a second

all target the next same ship, repeat

can we make charge start to time tick down as soon as it fires, like while the beam is beaming?

so that they can start beaming again right away if the target takes at least the charge time to die

or just, make the charge time 0 seconds and nerf the ramp speed to compensate. beams are instant, the lore checks out

[shell jasper]

the target switching is relatively fast on beams im pretty sure

I mean its not gatling but I think its as slow as default weapon at worst? I could be wrong though dont fully recall offhand

[alpine hemlock]

i was looking at beam fighter vs swarmer which is like the worst case scenario and is supposed to be bad

but it's real bad

[shell jasper]

well is anything vs swarmer other then missiles and I think the faster mini rail not bad?

[alpine hemlock]

yes. but if rail has 1.2 and charge laser has 1 fire rate, meaning 0.83 or 1 second to acquire a new target

beam has 1 second plus time to kill

charge and rail overkill and miss too, but the cadence is faster

[terse night]

IMO, "I'm firing my lazor. Oh target died. Why turn it off? Lemme just sweep to the next target"

We're pulling in alien supply ships with void pierce. Do we really care about "Maybe in 10k years I just accidently lasered a planet"?

[river flax]

https://tenor.com/view/death-star-gif-14758637425007366681

Death Star for final boss of USI or bust

Go toe to toe with Disney

We will support you

[shell jasper]

nothing has charge time in fleet

[alpine hemlock]

yeah it's not charge it's fire rate

point being.

1. beam shoots, target instantly dies, beam waits 1 sec, shoots again
2. beam shoots, starts to ramp, target dies in 0.79 seconds, beam waits 1 sec, shoots again

1. is fine, that's just overkill. charge laser would do the exact same

2. is kind of rude. it takes 1.79 seconds per target

Instead, i'd like:
2. beam shoots, 1 sec fire rate timer starts, damage starts to ramp, target dies in 0.79 seconds, beam waits remaining .21 sec, shoots again

it's still beam, so it's low damage the entire time because it's switching targets. but the cycle time is still 1 sec per target like charge laser would be

[shell jasper]

it had quite a bit higher fire rate in testing for a bit bu it totally dominated

the ramp time starts relatively high and the top end damage is higher then other weapons so its actually ok at killing small guys soon into the ticks, giving it real fast fire rate with that change would probably be overkill, can try like 2x fire rate instead I spose

although... thats part of what the fast beam 2.0 doess

[alpine hemlock]

i appreciate it's not an easy problem. the engagements are so chaotic and short

there's not a lot of space to play with

[fervent turret]

genuinely curious what slowing down rate of fire universally in UT would be like

for both player/enemies

[alpine hemlock]

range would matter less

and also positioning. everything would be full slugfest, even more than it already is

[fleet steppe]

Fire Rate and distancing(speed?)/range would need to change a lot for me to consider beam

fast firing/multi target weapons are acceptable against big targets, but slow firing weapons are a death sentence against masses

[fervent turret]

is versatile railgun also just bad?

it's hard for me to shake the idea that having both armor & shield damage bonus is good but every time I take it I feel like I can't keep up

[river flax]

Versatile is almost always good?

[nova light]

that was only for the quick beam laser

the basic one still sucked

[median marlin]

Any good strategy tips for this? I never seem to make it very far

[wild timber]

damage upgrades are generally king, don't blindly pick +cruiser/hcruiser if you don't have good upgrades on them yet because they also make enemies scale up faster

[median marlin]

So just all in on straight damage upgrades, ignore range and hull?

[wild timber]

p much yeah unless you have no better options

[alpine hemlock]

damage and fire rate

also, pick anti armor weapons

missile and railgun

with prioirity on the ships that start out anti-shield (fighter, corvette, HC)

you want no lasers on your whole squad ASAP

aslo, look at the enemies. dont draft the thing that kills you. missile boat if you have fighters, shielded mediums when you are anti-armor, swarmers if you're half non-missle cruisers

[vital oar]

its Duo after the first (None) run today

and once again after that

pump your banked runs

[woeful zephyr]

21 stages clearing using the duo

and then I'm out of fuel and can't do the second duo 😦

and won't have enough before the day changes 😦

[light verge]

i love rockets

but how do you make it so i don't die to shotguns

[fervent turret]

what does this even do if I have beams on my fighters already? (screwing around in practice mode)

[alpine hemlock]

#1335902304959987733 message

[fervent turret]

-# isn't this tooltip misleading then

[alpine hemlock]

the burst count multiplies beam damage

the actual mod still has the damage reduction too

so the dps is correct, with ramp

[young oxide]

Can the beat level 10 on extreme acheivement be done in any galaxy? Is it easier to do on one vs the others?

[nova light]

it can be done using any galaxy origin

[lusty umbra]

how far one can go with most preperable options?

lv 30 has softwall to kill you no matter what I guess

[nova light]

well choose enemies that don't have skrimishers for one

[winter flicker]

how do you activate the double click ability? sounds like a silly question but i have tried double clicking on them, shift/ctrl/alt clicking ect

doesnt seem to work for me so seems like a pointless upgrade unless there is something i am missing?

[alpine hemlock]

if you mean "double tap"

that's refering to the idiom for shoot twice

it gives frigates +1 burst for a bit when the bar fills up

there are no manually activated abilities

@winter flicker

[winter flicker]

thanks mate appreciate it - i was quite confused lol

[urban bridge]

my first UT with HC! 😮

oh neat

too bad their range is 500++

[novel quiver]

But enemy range could be less

1.5% also seems like a small number unless their hp is just that larger than everything else