Unstable Transit

[jade zenith]

on wave 9 that is

[raven seal]

ah

it was dirty screenshots, sorry about that. I know it was possible to get 10 cleared with it, but maybe I got more than one screenshot wrong. Sorry

[jade zenith]

I'm not complaining so much as maybe helping others that wanna try ^^

got me from 8 clear autorun to 10 clear autorun, so I'm quite happy xD

[raven seal]

oh, didn't think you were complaining, and it's appreciated. I'll try to be more careful next time I do it

[slate gorge]

thanks everyone with tuderen's change i was able to get 10 stages cleared

was my first clear btw, not second

[jade zenith]

for me it was the second

[slate gorge]

i did one auto clear today

but it was my first manual

[jade zenith]

autoclear shouldn't affect it

[slate gorge]

i know, just mentioning

[jade zenith]

fair

[rigid surge]

thanks, getting 7 more artifacts/20hrs on auto run

[raven seal]

Yeah, we worked out what the bug for autoclear is. Raised a bug report, we'll see how that goes

[raven seal]

The auto clear was resetting the date, even though it wasn't incrementing the run. So if you auto cleared it'd be whatever run number for the day your previous run was last time you did a manual clear

[woeful zephyr]

seriously?

[nova light]

snipers are op

[fleet steppe]

bruh moment

[woeful zephyr]

but it turns out they aren't when there are nothing but snipers. that was actually one of the easier fights

[old hound]

snipers are op if they have ships infront of them that are slow to kill

[nova light]

particularly swarmers

[humble bough]

Today (20th March) might be pretty good for a high-ish run (I'm using run 2 for the day) 2 Vets and a Cruiser are the first ship unlocks.

[dire bison]

For upgrades, have we settled on a rough priority? I've been trying to pick Capital Battle > Synth > Specimen > Mastery > Fighter Efficiency > Fighter Damage/Durability.

But the way they have grouped up over time puts my actual results at Cap>Mastery>Synth>Spec>Eff>Dam/Dur.

[jade zenith]

I mean you can make do with 4

I did mastery > cap > synth > specimen

[fleet steppe]

I think those 4 are probably best, fighter damage/dura is atrociously small even for UT, and efficiency falls off in EoC since core leveling provides marginal benefits and Discipline Gain isn't that impressive

[nova light]

mastery went from bottom tier to top tier with crew supremacy actually being real lol

[hollow badger]

Sunday, March 23, 2025

[jade zenith]

wait, sunday?

[woeful zephyr]

time zones

[woeful zephyr]

are you planning on posting the clears later?

[jade zenith]

right

I could use an 11 clear, so hopefully someone'll do a guide ^^

[woeful zephyr]

I think there's a higher chance of getting a 12 clear if you post them now, so people have more time to collectively try to improve on it

[jade zenith]

a fabled 12 would of course be even better

[woeful zephyr]

last time I vaguely recall people didn't try improving on it until the screenshots were posted

though now that we now it's a good seed, might as well start now

[jade zenith]

good thing I have like 3+ days of fuel, in case it wasn't his first daily clear

[woeful zephyr]

I have 2d 8h cause I was planning on going afk for quite a while starting soon

also it's not Sun 3/23 for me for over 14 hours

[jade zenith]

5+ hours for me

[woeful zephyr]

so I couldn't make a legit non-hax run until then anyway

eastern hemisphere players and europeans shoot your shot 😄

[jade zenith]

do people tend to do runs and reload if they aren't happy with it?

[woeful zephyr]

yeah

that's how to really try out lots of stuff and optimize

if anyone is going to come up with a 12 clear, that's probably going to be the way

[storm bay]

That stage 12 looks pretty nasty

[jade zenith]

that is actually a good point

can't make do with like 80 resources

[hollow badger]

I will post the SS later.

I think we could win stage 12 with 3 corvetts, 2 cruisers, and 2 fighters, cost 90, but I didn't feel like we could whittle it down that much by stage 11.

[jade zenith]

you were 32 short, doesn't seem like that big an increase, but of course that's without knowing how much time you spent optimizing

wait nvm, that was artifacts, not resources

just under 60 short, that's a decent chunk

[hollow badger]

There is a slight chance it may be possible to clear it with 3 cruisers and 2 fighters for a cost of 80.

[hollow badger]

6.56 8.3 11.38 9.17 19.2
25.14 29.2 36.67 23.87 33.78 37.15
34.13

[jade zenith]

@hollow badger just to make sure, this was your first UT run of the day, right?

[hollow badger]

yes

[fleet steppe]

Just to be clear, people can attempt this starting this time?

<t:1742702401:R>

[jade zenith]

it resets at 5AM?

or will it be midnight for you in 6 hours?

[fleet steppe]

post says the 23rd, which will be in 6 hours for me

slightly over 6 hours anyway

[jade zenith]

yeah

my understanding is as long as your system is the 23rd, your first UT manual run will be the same one as killer777's

[raven seal]

If you haven't done an auto run after midnight ticks over to that day. There's a bug that's been noted to be fixed that means the seeds don't reset unless you do the manual first

[cold wigeon]

You are my hero

often timezones are such that by the time someone has a good clear, its the next day over here

[woeful zephyr]

Just look at the date on your computer. If it says Sun March 23 and you haven't done a run on March 23 (based on your computer's time) yet, you can do this run.

Don't even need to do time zone calculations really.

[fleet steppe]

Speed optimization check:
Stage 2: running at 2x speed uses 8.3 resource, 1x uses 8.38
Stage 4: running at 2x speed uses 9.17 resource, 1x uses 10.28
Stage 5: running at 2x speed uses 19.2 resource, 1x uses 22.14
Stage 7: running at 2x speed uses 36.67 resource, 1x uses 45.3
Stage 8: running at 2x speed uses 23.87 resource, 1x uses 31.55
Stage 9: running at 2x speed uses 33.78 resource, 1x uses 35.49
Stage 10: running at 2x speed uses 37.15 resource, 1x uses 43.15

all configurations attempted with 1x/2x and no Railgun/Railgun fighters. 2x speed is strictly better for the pictured layouts.

[shell jasper]

fml I need to fix this

[fleet steppe]

thank you kindly @hollow badger , excellent work

43% more artifacts from here on out

[nova light]

unumustable transit

[jade zenith]

any wizards been dabbling yet? is 12 totally unreachable?

[fleet steppe]

tried to use the frigate in the last couple fights but it always made things worse

stage 11 is some voodoo magic I can't believe that it works against those enemies

[nova light]

armor tank cruisers stronk

[nova light]

beating stage 11/reaching stage 12 is barely doable on some very lucky days

beating stage 12 so far is just impossible

[jade zenith]

so my clear's resource spending fluctuated a fair bit from the posted run

[nova light]

check: battle speed

[jade zenith]

sometimes better, sometimes worse

[nova light]

double check mods 🤔

[jade zenith]

tried that, always got worse when I went to 1x

have no mods

[nova light]

it is definitely the same layout, yes

[jade zenith]

indeed

ended wave 10 with 79.87, I feel like the game's taunting me

[nova light]

err, the armor/shield/charge laser/etc. mods

[jade zenith]

oh, yeah, also the same

is it a fps thing? seen quite a few games where fps changes stuff unpredictably

ok, did it again, made 100% sure I was using the same mods, got a wave 11 clear with 51.93 resources to spare

the numbers were still off from the pictures, like I gained 5 on stage 2 I wanna say, then lost some other stages

[raven seal]

If you got better than the posted images, can you share your layout for that stage? That lets us improve it maybe

[jade zenith]

oh it was completely the same layout, the resource numbers just never quite matched what killer777's screenshots showed

[raven seal]

some minor optimisations:
Stage 2 - 6.84
Stage 5 - 16.73
Stage 6 - 26.14 (same layout but different mods)
Stage 11 - 28.47

but 60 for stage 12 was not enough for my brain to work out a solution

[hollow badger]

Thank you for the improvement

[woeful zephyr]

57.41? damn!

[fleet steppe]

.45 now

[woeful zephyr]

heh I need to do a longer comps run at some point. instead of trying to cram a short run in right before a good seed which helps but only a bit

[alpine hemlock]

monday march 24 also appears to be 3x Corvettes

wrong screenshot lol

[woeful zephyr]

what stage did you get to?

[alpine hemlock]

9 because i am bad

and also i was just seeing what the ships were so i just clicked next every time

[woeful zephyr]

these layouts are wild, I have no idea how you fleet wizards come up with them..

Sun 3/23 improvements incoming (I have 2 so far)

[woeful zephyr]

Sun Mar 23 improvements:
Stage 3: 11.15
Stage 4: 8.06 (1x speed! 🧀 )
Arrived at stage 12 with 65.57 FR (not cleared)

also apparently the artifacts you get are locked in when you arrive at the last sector I think (sector 12 in this case). Relevant if you're running base 6 comps in the middle of a fleet run. But maybe someone can dig through the code to figure out how it actually works. @obsidian glade? 😄

[obsidian glade]

Not sure what you mean exactly, the artifact multi gets locked in when you enter a stage?

[woeful zephyr]

yeah, or something like that

I'm not sure exactly what it does, but the code should say what it does

it definitely doesn't match your mult when you exit the run

or your mult when you enter the run

I suspect it's whatever it was when you entered the last stage you were in before you exited

[obsidian glade]

it does somewhere, but upgrade stuff is all over the place

But I'll see what I can find

[left sphinx]

do part run. your comp lv still e13 part

[woeful zephyr]

yeah, I need to do like 30 hours of parts to boost the comp rate followed by like 24 hours of farming comps or something like that

and then I'll have a mere 1.915 instead of 1.858 after all that lol

[woeful zephyr]

I also only cleared 9

[shell jasper]

you gain the artifacts as you clear the stages

errr, I think thats how it works on that version at least

[woeful zephyr]

That version being the latest one?

[shell jasper]

live ya

[woeful zephyr]

Prod? I can't see the developer versions lol 😆

[nova light]

lol

[empty cargo]

[shell jasper]

Prod sounds wrong for a game ><

[woeful zephyr]

Why lol? 😆

[nova light]

what is that supposed to mean

prod

[empty cargo]

b

[woeful zephyr]

The latest version released to the public

It stands for production

I guess it's like the "game industry" which also sounds wrong lol

Unless you're making factory games, but only if you're chaining AIs together like a factorio factory to make your game(s).

[nova light]

oh

[woeful zephyr]

The factory game factory

[nova light]

production does sound wrong for game industry

normally it is live version

[woeful zephyr]

But industries make products 😆

[river flax]

Production is common?

"Push to prod"

[alpine hemlock]

at one point there might have been some vaguely coherent language in games for testing and live, with alpha and beta and so forth

but the marketing people want to call demos "early access" and "alpha"

[woeful zephyr]

yeah, it was used at a job I worked at. for software that wasn't games related at all

[reef yacht]

Maybe 'Prod' is more for server side applications than client apps

I'm in enterprise apps so yeah, Prod is used a lot

[woeful zephyr]

That makes sense. Yeah I was working on web based systems.

[woeful zephyr]

first run of Wed Mar 26 has 4 corvettes

I only managed to clear 9 stages though, cause I suck at fleet

[hollow badger]

Thursday, March 27, 2025
Today is a lucky day. I think I can clear stage 11.

[untold valve]

Do I haved to reinforce to get the upgraded fleet resources?

[river flax]

No

But UT doesn't give you more than 300 anyway

[untold valve]

ah

[woeful zephyr]

Did you manage to?

[river flax]

Ya'll bickering about the stages and shit

I hope you enjoy the UT rework

[woeful zephyr]

I'll probably have 2x capital battle bonus from UT before the update gets released 😛

It's significant even now, just takes time to build

[nova light]

you wont

[alpine hemlock]

assuming you're at about 1k cap battle artifacts now so you need 1k more for 2x, and you get ~50 artifacts per quick clear, and cap battle is an option 50% of the time and you always pick it

i get 33 days

[hollow badger]

5.47 slow
7.9 slow
10.69
7.38
15.64

22
31.38
23.14
30.14
30.08 slow

38
54.2 slow

[jade zenith]

Oh damn is today the fabled 12 stage run?

[obsidian glade]

stage 12 clear lets go

[proud obsidian]

Oh damn. Thanks man!

[reef yacht]

Oh damn. Only 65 minutes of that day left for me

[fleet steppe]

king

[nova light]

I would use it if I really wanted it but knowing what's in the UT rework I don't care

[alpine hemlock]

damn i think i did an autocomplete after midnight

[nova light]

f

[alpine hemlock]

used some timeskips and nope, i have this run

fantastic, i'll get it later today 🙂

[nova light]

oh nice

[alpine hemlock]

i can tell from my fuel i must have done that run at least at 11:30pm. lucky!

[finite wave]

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-12869046600151364058

[reef yacht]

beautiful - thanks!

[left sphinx]

sigh, used my fuel earlier

[finite wave]

Timeskips are your best friend

[nova light]

null has probably timeskipped more years than christianity has existed

[left sphinx]

i used auto complete

[finite wave]

Reload your save

[left sphinx]

too late

[next ibex]

i always wonder how you guys do it.... my enemy ships are on different positions always

i managed till 9 but cant further

[fleet steppe]

General tips- try to have tank cruisers (uncommonly doable) or fighters (frequently doable especially early round) to soak up hits and distract snipers

Use charge laser corvettes when you can, extra range means safety

Try 1x and 2x speed on good layouts you find, it can still be better than you think

Simply be a better gamer and be gifted a fighter and corvettes as you progress

[jade zenith]

wave 13 clear when? xD

[storm bay]

nice

[jade zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/nice-south-park-gif-17950420

[woeful zephyr]

Is this real?

And are you going to post the screenshots?

[jade zenith]

it says he reached stage 13 😛

like everyone following killer777's setup

[woeful zephyr]

Oh ok it's not a 13 clear

[jade zenith]

yeah

[river flax]

@wild timber be like

Now that there's a 12 clear, wait for rework or accept this clear 😛

[pale ocean]

i was like 7-8 FR ahead of your runs at times, and then it caught back up in one go, so weird

[jade zenith]

yeah, happened to me aswell

[woeful zephyr]

Post the updated runs?

Or was it the same layouts but just different FR?

[jade zenith]

same layout for me, just slightly varied numbers on efficiency

there's clearly some other factor somewhere affecting the numbers

[hollow badger]

I didn't get the SS in one play, so I think there will be a discrepancy in the remaining cost.

[jade zenith]

as long as people end stage 11 with 70+ left, shouldn't matter too much

[storm bay]

I figure he took the screenshots in different timelines

Oh yeah he just said that

[astral kayak]

I assumed it was just rng with targetting and such

you should end up at 70 in s12 regardless

[coarse totem]

thank you so much for the walkthrough to get the stage 12 clear ❤️

[woeful zephyr]

hmm, what useless upgrade shall I put my likely only ever 12 run into?

I know the 85% bonus matters more in the long run, but still, ewww...

[astral kayak]

i wouldn't really call synth useless

[coarse totem]

I am just going to keep them all equal

but that is me being special

[woeful zephyr]

at this point synth = investing in gains that will only come after the next update requiring a reinforce (so probably g6)

i.e. after octoberrer

it helps mildly with fixtures, but so does the veil piercer boost from more resources

[coarse totem]

at this point I just hope I remember to use the time

[woeful zephyr]

splitting them equally is so bad..

[coarse totem]

because that is the worst that it does take 20 hours every time but that does mean I leave it at 4 days very easily because it is easy to forget

not using it at all is worse

[woeful zephyr]

how often are you playing USI?

is checking that page every 4 days and using up all fuel when you do too much?

[coarse totem]

yes, because I forget it

but as I said, that is me being special

[woeful zephyr]

if I wait until ~11:30pm I can get a 1.95x mult for my only ever 12 run (tossed into a "useless" upgrade of course)

[coarse totem]

nice

[woeful zephyr]

I think dargonite showed that requires 2x

[fleet steppe]

getting there

[woeful zephyr]

5.60e13 charge speed? wow

how?

[woeful zephyr]

oh ok

without the splicing bonus:

[fleet steppe]

a little less resource farming from me it seems

working on getting 2e30 specimen before pushing level 36 bottom row

[woeful zephyr]

veil piercer mult is 77.72x

that's the other piece

[fleet steppe]

also woopsie not Unstable Transit discussion

[woeful zephyr]

I love how the final stage 12 battle is in slow motion. very dramatic lol

[nova light]

lol

[nova light]

well it ain't fighters (10x lower than everything else lmao)

[crimson glen]

Thank you killer777

[woeful zephyr]

yes, thank you killer777!

I am going to get the cap battle bonus to 2x before the UT update btw 😛

[nova light]

you decidedly won't

[woeful zephyr]

I'm only 12 runs away lol. 23 on average if you consider there to be a 50% chance of cap battle appearing in the choices

[nova light]

sooo 10 days

or 20

have more faith in sylv smh

[woeful zephyr]

lol 😆

[wild timber]

guess this is good enough for the first ut run

[alpine hemlock]

eta is "sooner" than "one or two months"

[wild timber]

i've always said 13 is unrealistic though

[alpine hemlock]

20 days would still be on time for that, so with any small delay it's likely

[river flax]

But there's a 12 clear

[wild timber]

yeah

and 12 is not 13

[woeful zephyr]

I think 11 runs are still useful at this point cause they give more artifacts than the 12 stage 85% amount. And of course 12+ runs are useful. Runs with 10 or fewer stages will just default to the 12 stage 85% I think, but idk what the artifact gain formula is exactly.

What is the UT artifact formula anyway?

[nova light]

changing

[woeful zephyr]

But what is it now?

[nova light]

all I know is there is a big jump every 5 stages cleared

[wild timber]

it's a linear jump

[river flax]

You said a 12 clear

FFS

You didn't say a 13 clear

Stop moving the goalpost?

[wild timber]

i have no idea what you're talking about

i didn't realize there was a goalpost in the first place, were we even arguing about anything?

[river flax]

12 is realistic

Your last comment

So use 12?

[wild timber]

i did use 12

[river flax]

I see, my apologies

[wild timber]

you pinged me in response to comment about using 13

ok, no worries

[river flax]

No a 13 "clear when"

Meaning 12 was doable

Sorry

[untold valve]

shit best I can do is an 8

[woeful zephyr]

2nd run of Thu 3/27 had 4 corvettes fwiw

I'm in a late time zone, I don't expect to be the first to discover anything in UT

[next ibex]

just wtf......

snipers only

[nova light]

snipers are not your friends

at least it isn't 4 snipers and 4 skirmishers

[nova light]

surprised we got no discussion in here after allat reworking :(

[jade zenith]

update's been out an hour ^^

[iron cloak]

Not even

[woeful zephyr]

The discussion happened in other channels I guess

Like typical discord, can't maintain topics

[jade zenith]

hey, it was new and shiny, I felt the need to share where most saw it ^^;

[iron cloak]

Came in here to comment though immediately after trying update (only just saw and tried it)

Old version I was at "How in the world do I get past 7, I give up trying and will just auto collect". Enjoyed the new version

[nova light]

it's fun

Oh yeah, putting this here because I know nobody will ever beat it 😛

[jade zenith]

teh fuck

was it slightly undertuned?

[nova light]

not really, I just got very op

well the scaling got buffed a lot now

I can share these broken things freely now

need to find the best one

[woeful zephyr]

Exploiting bugs smh

[fleet steppe]

Wtf so soon

[rare pivot]

is the strat to just focus on buffing one ship type as much as possible?

[nova light]

yes, however there is weighting that increases the more mods on a ship you have that reduces the chances of getting more on them

[nova light]

the enemies were just too weak, no bugs exploited 😛

[woeful zephyr]

Wait this was a post-update run?

So it's still possible?

[nova light]

no, this was in beta

[rare pivot]

big enemy ships seem so much stronger than everything else

[nova light]

and then they got buffed... 2x hp to armor and shield because I found that they were weaker than hull

case in point

[woeful zephyr]

Lol load a previous save at least smh

Otherwise it's just cheating

[nova light]

all of those are on beta save

ok

[rare pivot]

base 6 production yay or nay

[nova light]

nay

[rare pivot]

what's the max amount of artifacts you can obtain?

[jade zenith]

well, it scales from base 6, so it varies for everyone

but stage 10's the last stage that increases artifacts

[nova light]

scales on base 6 but the maximum is from a stage 10 clear

[rare pivot]

before base bonus

[nova light]

guh

[rare pivot]

I assume modifiers increase the artifact gain? or are they just for testing

[jade zenith]

45

45 from G5 at least

[rare pivot]

so what are run modifiers?

[jade zenith]

modifiers to the run, I've only seen stuff that makes it more difficult, but dunno if there's beneficial modifiers aswell

[rare pivot]

so they're just for fun?

[jade zenith]

you don't choose to add them, they're either on or not, guessing based on the day's seed

[rare pivot]

oh

[jade zenith]

ok under simulation I see there's a few beneficial modifiers

[rare pivot]

for testing purposes

[jade zenith]

sure, but if they're there, I assume they can show up on the actual runs

[nova light]

UT Mod Compendium:

All mods are additive unless otherwise stated
Mods cannot be turned off or changed once chosen
Each ship type is limited to one ability slot, and abilities cannot stack with themselves
Most Rare and Very Mods do not stack

Basic Mods:

Damage Boost: +10% damage
Fire Rate: +5% fire rate
Hull Boost: +15% hp
Range Boost: +3% range

Rare Mods:

Ship Improvement: ||Every basic mod as one||
Armor Tank (Cruiser Only): ||Damage block equal to 1% of max hp, 1.3x fire rate, 1.75x damage, 2x hp, -1 ship||
Barrier: ||Adds barrier, -10% damage||
Burst Fire: ||+1 Burst Fire, -30% damage|| Stacks
Damage Amplifier: ||1.2x damage|| Stacks, multiplicative
Hull Amplifier: ||1.3x health|| Stacks, multiplicative
Rapid Fire (Corvette Only): ||1.5x Fire rate, lasts 4s, charge time 6s||, ability
Double Tap (Frigate Only): ||2x Burst Fire, lasts 3s, charge time 6s||, ability
Hull Bomb (Cruiser Only): ||Deal damage equal to 25% of max hp to closest enemy, charge time 5s||, ability
Dispersion Pulse (Heavy Cruiser Only): ||Deal damage equal to 1.5% of max hp to all enemies in range 500, charge time 2x||, ability
Teleport Drive (Fighter Only): ||Teleport behind furthest enemy, double damage for 1s, triggers once, 3s charge time||, ability

Very Rare Mods:

Fleet Rapid Fire: ||1.5x Fire rate to all allies, lasts 4s, charge time 6s, requires corvettes to be present||, ability
Fleet Double Tap: ||2x Burst Fire to all allies, lasts 3s, charge time 6s, requires frigates to be present||, ability
Fleet Teleport Drive: ||Teleport every ship behind furthest enemy, double damage for 1s, trigger once, 3s charge time, requires fighters to be present||, ability
Exploitation Field (Base Only): ||Enemies take 20% more damage, 6s charge||, ability
Fleet Barrage (Base Only): ||+25% Fire rate to all allies, 8s charge||, ability
Barrier Projection (Base Only): ||Gives Barrier to all allies, 8s charge||, ability

I'll work more on this later

[rare pivot]

can you stack multiple of all of them?

[nova light]

No abilities stack with other abilities, except for very rare mods

otherwise all mods stack

[rare pivot]

you can get achievements in simulation

feels unintended since you can just make it easier

[nova light]

intended

[shell jasper]

you have to do extreme by itself to get it

so no you cant make it easier ]:P

[nova light]

it's harder than it looks btw

[jade zenith]

is simulation seeded aswell?

[nova light]

teleport drive was moved to very rare, huh

I wonder if should add secret achievement solutions

nah, people can figure it out themselves

[nova light]

uh holy shit it teleported everyone

guess I was just lucky this time huh

[rare pivot]

it completely ruined my first attempt

[fleet steppe]

"best clear" being 0 damage taken feels so nice over minimizing resource spent

[nova light]

yep

[rare pivot]

does G5 vesrion not give you extra ships?

[nova light]

g5 lets you have starting cruiser

[rare pivot]

but can you get more ships during the run?

[nova light]

check run modifiers

you can, unless you have the 'no extra ships' modifier

[rare pivot]

it's probably that

[fleet steppe]

charge laser feels a little stinkier (lot stinkier) than usual

[rare pivot]

I'm just blind

[fleet steppe]

feels really bad not being able to hover over the enemy ships and see their values, no idea if the tiny hull boost for Fighters matters

[nova light]

they are

[vital oar]

at first glance

i dont feel like spending time to try this out.....

ive had 50 arts per 20 hours, but now i have no progress in new system and a bit depressed - but also reasons in real life...

will get back to that later maybe... cause random modifiers and so many of them - ill need a month to roll something nice to get a hgih score, or maybe im wrong...

[shell jasper]

no its very eaysy no by comparison

you will get more artifacts your first run then you probably had ever before now

[jade zenith]

from what little experience I've had with the new UT so far, I think clearing stage 10's a lot easier than before

[shell jasper]

unless you had a sicko run earlier maybe

[fleet steppe]

You don't always feel a feeling of being run out of resources as you play, "perfect" clears are possible for some stages which feels pretty rewarding

[candid notch]

USI ~~Tower ~~ base defense, I like.

[jade zenith]

wait @shell jasper is the day still based on local timezones? cause I've passed midnight, but it still says I've done 2 runs today

[shell jasper]

no its utc

[jade zenith]

so the day swaps for everyone at the same time now? no more getting intel from the japanese that are ahead? xD

[river flax]

But no...?

[reef yacht]

"fewer"

[covert silo]

loving the new ut thus far

[finite wave]

Another finely cooked meal from chef Sylv 🧑‍🍳

[covert silo]

is there a way to apply a skin to all ships?

[quiet spear]

under prestige gotta do all for UT though

[covert silo]

ty

[quiet spear]

yw

[shell jasper]

standard mode modifier chances:

• Hard 10%
• Less Choice 15% OR More Choice 15%
• Duo 20%
• No extra ships 20%
• More Mods 20%
• Balance 20%

[empty cargo]

fighter charge laser is funny

can we do the unstable achievements in simulation?

[alpine hemlock]

not the ones that say "in a standard run"

otherwise yes

[alpine hemlock]

you aren't getting this many mods in a real run, but something seems off with the 4th stack of Burst Fire here

i guess the damage reduction doesn't care about the current burst

[shell jasper]

ya its +1 burst and 80% damage so theres a spot its worse

[empty cargo]

i already got it but whats the req for the too many mods achievement

[shell jasper]

35+

[left sphinx]

fighter + teleprt + missile launcher + burst = lag spike on weak computer 😏

[shell jasper]

missiles in general are rough can 100% blow up computer with it haha

[rain kindle]

for the "too hard combo" achievement, do you need to pass a given stage (say first one), or can failing it work?

[left sphinx]

on mono
90 fighter shooting 3 missile x 2 burst at same time 🤣

[alpine hemlock]

May I suggest (1.1+LOG(N))/N damage for N levels of burst fire instead of 0.7^N.

Goes like this:

[shell jasper]

O.o

just so its more better longer?

[alpine hemlock]

it's better forever, it's just not great

feels silly to have a literal no upside nerf mod

yeah it takes three stacks of a rare, but still lame

[shell jasper]

I dont have a way to do an arbitrary formula on those unfortunately

but ill do this if I end up making one

[alpine hemlock]

it has to be a relative multiplier?

to the previous level?

[shell jasper]

ya it just stacks the mods and applies their changes individually

[alpine hemlock]

could you make the 70% reduction only happen the first time?

that would be +40%/+50%/+33%/+25% would kind of make sense

second stack kinda spicy but not insane

[shell jasper]

nope. Easier then that other thing, but if I did something "custom" for it might as well do it a good way

[alpine hemlock]

oh well

it will come up once in 10 million real runs so not a big deal

[shell jasper]

worth doing if/when add mroe complext stuff in anyways

[empty cargo]

finally

[woeful zephyr]

this isn't the achievement combo either

wtf, what could it be?

[empty cargo]

the hardest

[empty cargo]

||extreme, no choice, standard ships, fragile||

[woeful zephyr]

oh lol wow, I was adding in balance and no extra ships too during some of my initial attempts and that caused it to not work...

why though?! no extra ships at least makes it even harder..

[empty cargo]

i think extra ships add both player and enemy ships

[woeful zephyr]

oh ok

so it doesn't make it harder cause there are more enemy ships?

[shell jasper]

right enemy ship count matches yours. so you just both have less ships with that one

[rain kindle]

i thought the same to be honest....
"no extra ships" would be harder since you dont get the option to gain a ship on stage 5x
and also @shell jasper , the description of "Balance" needs to be a bit better. its a little confusing as to what it means.

[shell jasper]

suggest away

[rain kindle]

by that i mean, when you hover over the "Balance"

i am in a fleet battle right now. when i get out i'll let you know. 😄

[shell jasper]

it makes your ship and mod count even/the same for all

[woeful zephyr]

was the 1x speed cheese fixed?

[alpine hemlock]

i dont think it can be

[rain kindle]

@shell jasper
"mod choices presented will result in equal amounts on all ships"
what confuses this is:

1. is whatever i select going to be applied to all types of ships i have? (unlikely). This is read as "selecting this option will give all ships types an equal amount of damage boost" assuming you select damage boost.
2. if i buy fighter round 1, cruiser round 2, then will it present me only frigate round 3? (assuming i only have 3 ships). this will "equalize" the number of mods.
3. if i get option of damage boost on fighter vs damage boost on cruiser, then the choices presented are going to do equal amounts of damage regardless of ship type.

Basically, i think that sentence can be read in multiple ways. So, just a slight improvement on the sentencing would be helpful.

[empty cargo]

2

[shell jasper]

its 2

I am not sure how to improve it tho to more clearly state that it is 2

[woeful zephyr]

hmm that base is base 6

doesn't that mean base 6 should take damage every time you lose a UT round?

-1 level to a random base 6 producer/booster every time you complete a UT round 😛

[rain kindle]

perhaps "Equalizes the number of mods on each type of ship" ?
or perhaps, use something like "count" instead of "amount" ? Count implies number/counting, while amount could be anything including damage/boost/range/number etc...

or maybe this is just me. 😛

[woeful zephyr]

are these applied independently of each other? (except the 15% less choice or 15% more choice)?

[shell jasper]

Yes

[jade zenith]

any max modifier cap? or can we end up in theory with most active?

[shell jasper]

You could hit all the ones i laid out

So 6 at once

[woeful zephyr]

and the less/more choices is 70% nothing for that category or 15% less or 15% more?

[jade zenith]

0.000024% chance to get 6 modifiers if I did the math right ^^;

oh wait

0.0024% chance

[shell jasper]

Ya

[empty cargo]

ability
rapid fire exclusive to corvette
double tap exclusive to frigate
teleport exclusive to fighter
hull bomb exclusive to cruiser
is that right

[jade zenith]

check the pins, minibosstank made a list

think it's right though

[empty cargo]

so the very rares affect all ships?

[jade zenith]

I'm not entirely sure, I think maybe it's an aoe, so ships far enough away aren't affected

at least I believe that's what I saw when I had the fleet rapid fire mod on my corvettes, but it's possible I just wasn't paying attention

[tawny rover]

The fleet teleporter seems like a trap... you end up in the middle of the enemy ships and shredded. Even just the one just for the fighters gets them murderfaced.

[empty cargo]

alr people
is this right
https://spaceidle.game-vault.net/wiki/Fleet#Mods

[jade zenith]

wait, how do you get secret achievement for it being too hard?

just failed on the first stage, figured that'd be it, but didn't get it

[empty cargo]

select hardest possible combination in simulation

[jade zenith]

which combo is the hardest? I feel I've tried the obvious ones

[empty cargo]

hint: you only choose one in the "other" category

[jade zenith]

I see

[woeful zephyr]

carnage

[empty cargo]

fleet barriers also divide damage by 1000x just like normal barriers lol

[woeful zephyr]

simulated battles contribute to the "command n fleet battle victories" achievement now?

[alpine hemlock]

Balance: "Mod choices presented will always be for the ship(s) with the fewest mods."

[jade zenith]

just did a sim run to test it, from what I saw it does not

oh wait

fleet battle victories, I thought you meant enemy ships

[woeful zephyr]

yeah, they do count for fleet battle victories

[nova light]

uh isn't it 70% damage

my calculations have it as -30% damage per burst fire mod

[nova light]

correct, at least the ones that say 'Fleet' x ability

[jade zenith]

looks fine to me

xD

[proud obsidian]

10x Fighters + Fleet Teleport + Fighter Teleport = lag spike on 4090 lol

[woeful zephyr]

it's the new UT weapon: lag

[nova light]

at least it isn't burst missiles

fleet teleport doesn't really mean anything when you have mono fighters anyways

[proud obsidian]

Well lets see how bad it gets with both once I get 10 fighters

[raven seal]

some of these upgrade mods feel so wacky. Charge Laser on a Fighter?!

[nova light]

ooga booga

[nova light]

note: never click that, they suck

as one would expect

[raven seal]

at the same time, I can choose mini rail gun on a cruiser

[raven seal]

Yeah, I figured that was likely

[nova light]

mini rail gun is objectively speaking the best weapon in terms of base stats

[raven seal]

at the same time, I could also take missile launchers on the fighter as well

[nova light]

the other options are missiles which are... missiles and charge lasers which are... worse in UT

[raven seal]

A study of opposites

[nova light]

tfw 3 skirmishers spawn when you click charge lasers but only two when you click missiles

[raven seal]

mini rail gun cruiser it is

[alpine hemlock]

i think shields are a problem in UT so i am reluctant to pick the options that convert anti shield weapons to anti armor

[raven seal]

and then proceeded to get wiped by basic skirmishers. HA

[nova light]

versatile mini rail gun solves that problem

also, enemy ships can at most have 1 hull type more than what your weapons can counter

[proud obsidian]

Hu surprisingly not that different. The lag spike is purely from the teleport.

[nova light]

i.e. if you have 10 charge lasers you can see at most 1 armored enemy

[alpine hemlock]

huh

[nova light]

how are you getting fleet teleport drive so often tho

[alpine hemlock]

counterintuitive. that means if you are afraid of shield enemies you want to pick anti-armor ships and weapons

[proud obsidian]

Never seen it then I had in in these 2 back to back runs. Pure luck lol

[alpine hemlock]

weird

[nova light]

maybe just because you have mono fighters and fleet teleport drive it doubles up on the tp calculations which are already super intensive

just a guess

[proud obsidian]

Aaa could be. Been messing around with mono cruisers for most of the time and don't know if they can even get it.

[nova light]

they can't

teleport drive and fleet teleport drive require fighters to be present

everything stated in the pins

[raven seal]

Oh hey, I got the very rare rapid fire fleet. Niiiiice

[proud obsidian]

Aaa I'm blind and didn't notice the (fighters only)

[raven seal]

is hull boost worth it? or stack more damage?

[proud obsidian]

It is kind of weird that you can get both Teleport Drive and Fleet Teleport Drive with mono fighters. But I guess that's such an edge case that there isn't a point to code an exception.

Weird thing is though that only the fleet teleport drive was causing the lag spike. When I just had the fighter teleport drive there wasn't any lag at all when they teleported.

[nova light]

yeah, as I thought, perhaps a weird interaction with mono fighters causing it to stack somehow

[nova light]

glass cannon meta

[raven seal]

ah

and fire rate or or damage boost?

[nova light]

hull boost is basically not worth it unless you get hull bomb early

one or two is sometimes good for cruisers though if you have armor tank and just the chance to get hull bomb

and the number is big

[nova light]

that depends quite a bit more

like any good roguelike the answer is 'it depends' 😛

I could do a whole writeup for when to take either one but currently it's too late I need to sleep, so adios

thinking of maybe writing a ut guide in the future tho

[raven seal]

versatile minigun. It doesn't add as much dps, but I feel might be better for skirmishers

Sleep well mate

[nova light]

versatile minigun is just very good overall

usually worth picking

[raven seal]

Oh I've got that on my corvettes, along with the fleet attack speed boost

which is why I'm trying to work out if raw damage of .03 fire rate

[left sphinx]

boost is additive, ie 100 + 12 + 12 etc. stacking dmg fall off at certain point

[fleet steppe]

Fighters still really like to get up close even when you boost their range a ton

kinda gimps the range advantage a fair bit, though starting your attack sooner still helps

[quiet spear]

turn them into snipers xD

[woeful zephyr]

the game really wants to bait me into putting CLs on my fighters

[jade zenith]

I've done it a few runs

regretted it every time

[woeful zephyr]

and.. my CPU now hates fighters

or my GPU I guess, I hope the game code uses my graphics card

so useful with mono fighters that already teleport.. 🙄

this may also be the first very rare that I ever got

completely useless very rare

[jade zenith]

I've also only gotten one ever, the corvette one

that one was dope though

[woeful zephyr]

my fighters sparkle like twilight vampires

I have no idea what's going on here, that doesn't look like a normal barrier

this game definitely has a memory leak. doing a mono fighter run lowered my frame rate even after finishing the run..

restarting the game fixed it

[left sphinx]

^

[finite wave]

Just run it on potato mode instead

[woeful zephyr]

14 cleared for real (non-simulated) run. yay! 😄

[alpine hemlock]

so how do the banked runs get used up exactly? in "goes down by up to 3 if above 10", i assume "up to" means it doesn't screw you as it passes 10, so no 11 > 8. but does that mean 14 > 11 > 9 or 14 > 11 > 10 > 9

[fleet steppe]

or maybe 11>10>10, 12>11>10?

[jade zenith]

I'm guessing 14>11>10 personally, but haven't tried it yet

[finite wave]

I'll test it in a few hours, 2ish more hours before I can buy instability

[shell jasper]

hmmm seems good to me?

[shell jasper]

I thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink it stops at 10.

[shell jasper]

anything in UT that needs addressing for upcoming patch?
Got:

• typos/grammar
• Shotgun hull being too high

[jade zenith]

was the mangled base graphics fixed in an earlier patch?

[shell jasper]

no

[storm bay]

are gatling enemies supposed to be able to get multiple shots in before they die to the base?

[shell jasper]

ya

||just becaues im lazy tho lol||

[storm bay]

was gonna say

"oh that happens. that's gonna be real hard to change. oh well "

[jade zenith]

Luna wanted the ability to partially feed fuel to instability

something about being able to remove themselves from the game for longer periods of time

[shell jasper]

uh, I dont think thats happening, complicates UI for that stuff a lot for pretty small gain

[storm bay]

are we supposed to be able to view enemy details in the preview options? Cuz i was only able to select them to give them a red border

[jade zenith]

same

[shell jasper]

nope

I figured it wasnt needed and wasnt a spot to really put it

but if its something people find useful I can add it in

[storm bay]

I personally have a hard time squinting to figure out which ship type it is when comparing fights. When there's like 9 different types and I just want to know how many skirmishers, etc there are

but I dunno how to do that without cluttering the UI

[fleet steppe]

I would find it pretty useful to see if I want a shield/hull booster or not

[finite wave]

I have a z89 with 12 banked, and a z95 run with 10 banked. When I use an instability, the z89 went to 10 (still maxed artifacts) and the z95 run went to 9 (just below max)

[storm bay]

actually what might help is if the ship preview is reordered so that all the same types are next to each other

hull skirmisher/shield skirmisher/armor skirmisher/shield sniper/armor sniper/etc

[finite wave]

Which is inline with the tooltip

[shell jasper]

hmmm that does sound nice

[shell jasper]

ok good confirmation thats what I as pretty sure I set it up as haha.

[finite wave]

The new UT is rather stable for a new /reworked gameplay mechanic, I'm rather happy with the change

[woeful zephyr]

Ok simplified thing that requires no UI change: when you hit 4 days astrium fuel, the excess fuel automatically goes into lowering the instability countdown timer continuously. So basically you have the timer going down from both the normal 1 second per second from itself plus extra speed from astrium fuel feeding into it.

[shell jasper]

oh, thats not a bad idea really

not 100% sure it would really be used though thinking of it. if you just dont login for 5 days, instabilit maxes and then the excess fuel cant go to it anyways

[woeful zephyr]

It's still used if you have banked astrium but not so much banked instability

[storm bay]

can we get an option to take no upgrades? There are some situations where the only choices ruin your build

[woeful zephyr]

And for anyone dumping astrium into instability anyway it's a quality of life improvement too, only having to manage 1 resource instead of two just to do one thing (i.e. do UT runs)

Since in that scenario it would be possible to just ignore the astrium fuel, let it overflow into instability, and just use the instability as it comes in.

[quiet spear]

lol

we do need an option not to choose any i think xD

[jade zenith]

yeah, a skip would be nice

[woeful zephyr]

Why not missile launchers?

[jade zenith]

though to be fair, I can see how it could be viewed as part of the challenge

[woeful zephyr]

Embrace the 1 fps 😛

[storm bay]

that is the option yes

[storm bay]

except that it just means you do less damage and immediately die sometimes

[jade zenith]

skipping could make no choice less punishing

[storm bay]

like there's no strategy or placement at that point

[jade zenith]

or wait, no choice can't roll on standard?

[storm bay]

apparently not

[woeful zephyr]

Missile launcher mono fighters with teleport just looks hilarious

[storm bay]

I'm trying without teleport

[woeful zephyr]

With mono it forces you to pick some weapon type at a specific stage, right?

Like you can't just stay standard

No matter what, even if the weapon speciality choices are random

It's a random selection of only weapon specialities at a specific point, right?

With duo or standard (i.e. all ship types) you can at least make only one ship type specialize at that point.

[storm bay]

yeah but i've had situations where my crowd control unit is ruined by getting locked into a slow rate of fire option

and then all the fight options have 4 skirmishers and then i just die on a fairly early stage

[woeful zephyr]

I anticipate a lot of save and reload for the real (non-sim) runs..

[shell jasper]

this to me seems more like an issue of come thigns being too weak

[fleet steppe]

every time I've taken charge laser I almost immediately regret it

[woeful zephyr]

Missile fighters aren't weak. They're so strong they even defeat your graphics card. 😆

Also I got past stage 20 with them

[storm bay]

mono missile fighters with no extra ships

[woeful zephyr]

G4 or G5?

[storm bay]

g5

[woeful zephyr]

And either way, how??

[fleet steppe]

are all upgrades "equal strength" regardless of stage? For instance, if I have a completely unmodified Fighter, will the Damage Booster increase be the same on Stage 1 as it is on Stage 15?

[jade zenith]

I believe so yes

[woeful zephyr]

Oh no extra ships.. 🤔

Have to try that

[shell jasper]

stage doesnt matter. but the amount you have of the specific upgrade already does, since its additive

[fleet steppe]

whats the likelyhood of UT balance changes within the next week/month

[woeful zephyr]

Burst decreases dps once it gets high enough

[fleet steppe]

i want to get some numbers down but don't want to immediately have to redo it b/c of a new patch

[jade zenith]

burst 3+ decreases dps from my experience

[storm bay]

wdym?

there's like no benefit to a high score now assuming you get more than 10

[shell jasper]

well one balance fix coming later today

[fleet steppe]

if charge lasers get gigagassed like I hope they do then the numbers I write down today won't matter

[storm bay]

what

[fleet steppe]

I find myself wondering the value on some upgrades like Fighter Hull and if it's ever really relevant

[storm bay]

"they do then the"

[fleet steppe]

if charge lasers get gigagassed like I hope they do, THEN data pulled today is meaningless

[storm bay]

oh "like I hope they do, then the..."

[fleet steppe]

have you ever been so far as to like when do

[shell jasper]

the hull upgrades are just not great

I dunno how to make em good lol

[jade zenith]

they're at least somewhat decent on cruisers with hull bomb I've found

[storm bay]

enemies at the end one shot you no matter what so you have to go full dps

[woeful zephyr]

No hull? 🤔

[fleet steppe]

hull bomb is pretty neato

[storm bay]

non barrier fighters have done the best so far cuz they technically can take more shots than a fleet of cruisers

[woeful zephyr]

Wait how does barrier make them worse?

[alpine hemlock]

hull upgrades could be fleet-wide instead of per ship type? that would be nice

[storm bay]

less dps

[jade zenith]

you lose 3 fighters with barrier

or was that another upgrade?

[storm bay]

even though they take more shots than non barrier

but they let the enemy get more shots off

[alpine hemlock]

hull upgrades could also just be bigger and/or multiplicative instead of additive (i think they're additive?)

[storm bay]

plus i think the enemy has a lag in switching targets. they can hit the same unit twice faster than hitting two different units once

[woeful zephyr]

Lol all the strategizers are totally shredding Sylv's carefully crafted selection of upgrades. 😆

[alpine hemlock]

you could also have at least two common defensive upgrades with synergy, such as a damage reduction upgrade to go with the hull

[storm bay]

I try to avoid barrier. Everytime I've tried it, it felt bad

[alpine hemlock]

that way there's an actual "defense build"

[woeful zephyr]

I guess that's what happens with a subgame requiring such careful balance

[storm bay]

teleport would be nice if you could turn it off when there aren't snipers, but otherwise I think it's also generally detrimental

[shell jasper]

I mean, just jucing the hull upgrade seems fine I guess

[fleet steppe]

teleport seems cool in early rounds but agree that it's kinda bad

[alpine hemlock]

some kind of "taunt" specialization/weapon equivalent could also be nice. BIG hull increase + damage nerf downside + enemies attack this first

[storm bay]

the target priority of small ships by small ships over mediums is also annoying

[fleet steppe]

comically fat fighters

[storm bay]

i've had a deathball of fighters sit on mediums while shooting everything else and getting plucked off by the mediums

[woeful zephyr]

You have to use the new skin to make them look fat too 😛

[fleet steppe]

ngl these fat fighters

are pretty impressive

[alpine hemlock]

armor / shield resist mods could be strategic, adding to which matchups you want to line up

too many defensive mods would dilute the pool though

[alpine hemlock]

40 hull is enough to survive hits that late?

[shell jasper]

does cl need a slight buff?

[fleet steppe]

evidently, yes

[fleet steppe]

that said, mono run and I've put almost all my upgrade into hull for the lulz

[woeful zephyr]

What about after 20?

[storm bay]

I just tried hull fighters and they died on stage 2

[shell jasper]

hull 12% -> 15%, see if it makes it ever so slightly better

[woeful zephyr]

Probably shitty placement smh

[shell jasper]

coudl also make it multiplicative I suppose

[fleet steppe]

Stage 21:
Generic enemy - 30.02 damage
Skirmisher - 10.51
Shotgun - 100.06
Sniper - 161.6
Medium - 112.57

stage 22 is cool because I no longer have to worry about optimizing deployment with 10 fighters

[woeful zephyr]

Which one is shotgun?

[fleet steppe]

instead, I simply lose

[jade zenith]

lol

[fleet steppe]

this asshole

[woeful zephyr]

we have the power of emojis

And the emojis call them carriers

[fleet steppe]

carriers do look the same just larger

[storm bay]

yeah they can't do anything after stage 20 or so

[fleet steppe]

that's odd...

I thought difficulty was a damage/hull multiplier

but it doesn't add up here

[jade zenith]

to be fair, I went full damage/fire rate and lost at stage 22

[fleet steppe]

nevermind my formulas were wrong

[tired blaze]

If you wanna be creative, make it add shield

And have all enemies do 2x hull, idk

[jade zenith]

Adding shield and armor as upgrades could be cool

Could also dilute your choice pool too much though

[fleet steppe]

neat, haven't seen this very rare perk yet

[fleet steppe]

running some math, if you got a shield upgrade for a given ship once per stage clear, you will keep up with enemy damage ramping until the 12th upgrade/difficulty 1.8, then you will fall off

[fleet steppe]

taught my base how to dodge

[storm bay]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-dodge-dancing-gif-9449699

[nova light]

fleet ships use the capital barrier texture because the normal one is very wonky in fleet

[nova light]

sylv said 'nah all of them should be upgrades so you don't get to skip'

[nova light]

less damage plus the enemies most dangerous for fighters, shotguns and mediums, already fire two shots so barrier doesn't doa nything

[nova light]

I would like to try hull bomb with that

[storm bay]

he already said that just means the upgrades are weak

[nova light]

yeah

[shell jasper]

hmmm

barrier could be no downside I guess?

[storm bay]

you mean no dps penalty?

cuz not taking one hit with the bullet hell going on is hardly worth the dps hit

[shell jasper]

ya

I feel like you guys are underestimating taking an extra hit though

[storm bay]

oof game crashed again

[shell jasper]

so much of your stuff eies in 1 to 2 hits its a large surviability boost

[storm bay]

except that the dps loss means the enemy survives long enough to get an extra 1 or 2 shots off

or 10+ shots

[shell jasper]

hrm

what about on fighters? still too rough even with it spread so much?

[storm bay]

hard to put a theory behind it but barrier fighters have performed worse in my experience

considering a situation where ships are getting one shot, barrier is actually the worst on fighters

12 hits instead of 9, whereas other ships have double life. fighters are the only ones that lose units right?

[shell jasper]

ya

[empty cargo]

fighter lose units
other ships lose damage

[storm bay]

I'd rather have 3 barriers and hp max set to 1

lol

[empty cargo]

btw fleet barriers also divide damage by 1000 just like s./c. enemies

[storm bay]

is it floored?

[empty cargo]

hp can be a decimal

🤔

[storm bay]

then it's fine

[empty cargo]

only players have barriers and only in UT
UT doesnt have enemy bases and normal galaxies do
so we cant use barrier to hit bases multiple times

:(

[river flax]

Inb4 galaxy 7 barriers on our ships

Also also, I imagine base would pierce that

[fleet steppe]

Barriers hasn't felt noticably better than without it I think? sometimes I feel like it's doing worse but it's a little hard to tell, but I don't feel like it's a big advantage

[empty cargo]

wasnt there some funny thing about cruiser surviving a low difficulty base shot

[storm bay]

counter sniper build kinda fun

[shell jasper]

so im doing:
hull boost 12% -> 15%
barrier -20% damage -> -10% damage (and fighers get this version too)

anythign else?

[fleet steppe]

if teleport needs to be buffed (feeling like a maybe on that), have it activate when the ship is about to be hit. Might tread on barrier's toes a bit, but it's dumped in the backline and it's going to be shredded, so it's not really a tanking upgrade despite giving a free hit

I'm not sure if Burst Fire is actually good, overkill damage is wasted and higher fire rate is better (mostly on skirmishers), would like to hear thoughts from others

would like to see charge laser get some small buffs

[wild timber]

wait sylv, is it just shotguns that are supposed to have lower hull than their shield/armored counterparts?

i think i saw fighters having the same hp too

[shell jasper]

uh

rip

ya basically all hsield or armor enemies should have 2x of their hull counterparts

so I jus csewed up when adding the hull dudes in

psh

two nerfs gonnamake UT so easy

2x damage for 1 shot on the teleport be good enough prolly?

[wild timber]

not an instant shot?

[shell jasper]

I dont have a way to force a shot

[wild timber]

i think there's gonna be a decent amount of cases where you tp right after shooting into a medium or shotgun and then you just get deleted while your weapon is still on cd

o dang

how does volley work then? in the main game

[shell jasper]

the turret firing stuff is different, iI could kinda port volley in but thats not a today thing

I mean, could do 2x fire rate for like 1 second, youd fire real quick again and get part of next shot done

is tp insta fire really solving much though? I feel like plenty of time you are insta firing with it

[wild timber]

it mostly makes fleet tp not a grief pick if you have something with low fire rate like charge laser ig

ok finally got one

[shell jasper]

well ill just do 2x damage for 1.5 sec or something as a start

[wild timber]

i wonder if there's any other enemies

[shell jasper]

ill double check the data I cant think of any others though as its been for ones I created the armor/shield variant first

[wild timber]

also as far as other balance goes

i've only heard bad things about some weapon mods like fighter charge laser

[shell jasper]

its just a silly combo dunno how to make it ok when fighters tryna be up in there as their thing ><

[wild timber]

usually frigate going to x2 shield or corvette going to x2 armor is also kinda bad cuz you lose versatility

[shell jasper]

x2 shield?

oh you mean the damage type

eh it should turn out fine in theory

[empty cargo]

versatile mini rail gun is nice

[fleet steppe]

Might be interesting to see charge laser's speed modifier go from -1 to x0.5, to slow fighters down to 2x speed

charge laser with 3x speed is kinda L

[shell jasper]

thats simple enough

[fleet steppe]

Fighters really seem to want to push forward even when they have enormous range increases and no need to do so, if they were mildly less suicidal that would be nice too

aka don't push further if they can fire on an enemy in range

[wild timber]

they need that to guarantee they screen enemy snipers though

[fleet steppe]

maybe some middle ground

[shell jasper]

CL fighters should be pushing less far forward then non CL fighters

unless that jst doestn work

[fleet steppe]

they don't need to push to ~100 units when they have 700+ range

[shell jasper]

they should be pushing to 400

[empty cargo]

fighter deceleration

[shell jasper]

rip, my test run tanking my ranking

[empty cargo]

how many players are there

[wild timber]

how does rank compare between galaxies

using z95 or z89 would presumably have different generation for upgrades and stuff throughout the run, right?

[fleet steppe]

cruisers would change the rng/options so it probably should

neat

[shell jasper]

its galaxy specific

[wild timber]

o ok

[shell jasper]

2040 entries today for z89

ties dont increment tho

[alpine hemlock]

can a hypothetical mod be repeatable but also have a prerequisite mod?

[shell jasper]

should work fine ya

[alpine hemlock]

i was going to suggest you might use miniature tree systems like Nova Drift

[shell jasper]

the weapons work like that

but nothing else

[alpine hemlock]

if you do even basic mods that way, it helps the pool self manage. if you take the base fire rate mod, the pool now has more fire rate mods

and if you never take the base range mod, there's only that one range mod

[shell jasper]

kinda odd with them all stacking though I feel like

[alpine hemlock]

so there's more of what you take and less of what you don't. and you can add a lot more mods without making builds impossible

also, you can put spicy strong mods that do themed things

that you can only get if you take a couple normalish mods from the tree

so you partially solve the "is hull too bad" and "is barrier too good" problem

by making you take +hull to get barrier

[shell jasper]

well barriers a rare

but ya

[alpine hemlock]

the main "drawback" of the strong mods can be being at the bottom of the tree. so that the actual mods themselves can just be strong, which is more fun

[shell jasper]

tis a good idea

the main issue here is making strong mods interesting/different

unless just go with a simple better version style thingy

[alpine hemlock]

shot scaling for the fire rate tree. higher damage per distance to target for the range tree (straight from nova drift, but that's a classic)

[storm bay]

mono teleport barrier missile fighters with no extra ships

[alpine hemlock]

only stage 36, needs a buff

[raven seal]

Um, being able to see your current upgrades for all those ships would be nice when picking a new upgrade. My brain is lacking the ram to remember what I've picked

[shell jasper]

just dont have space T.T gotta figure out how to do it, maybe enext to them I guess?

[fleet steppe]

Sub menu/button to see ships?

[nova light]

wow, hit space roguelike nova drift

[storm bay]

https://tenor.com/view/straight-face-serious-gif-19589739

[empty cargo]

before hull shotgun fix

[nova light]

the illusion of choice

[empty cargo]

very versatile choices

[nova light]

the illusion of choice

guh need to update the pins to reflect changes

[woeful zephyr]

You get to choose which enemies to fight

[nova light]

gonna add weapons to mod compendium eh

[empty cargo]

{{fleet}}

[lofty mist]

https://spaceidle.game-vault.net/wiki/Fleet

Official Unnamed Space Idle Wiki

Fleet

Fleet is a late-game system unlocked after reinforcing 5 times. Here, players can travel to Galaxies, short gauntlets of multiple battles against enemy fleets, which grant powerful permanent upgrades that last through reinforces. It is the first system that takes place outside the reinforce-layer, finally making reinforcing a true second Prestige-layer. Hence, nothing about the Fleet system gets reset on reinforces.
Fleet gameplay takes place entirely separate from standard and capital gameplay.

[empty cargo]

(the speed stats are probably not right)

[nova light]

blorp

hmm running out of space

[storm bay]

frigates continue to be the worst

[nova light]

unsurprisingly

oh yeah, something about teleport drive, is that they jump behind the furthest enemy of the same size class

[empty cargo]

🙃

[river flax]

Is funny

[raven seal]

Charge Lasers Suck. Ugh

I know minibosstank said they were meh, but ugh

(didn't have a choice)

[woeful zephyr]

Rebalancing needed

[nova light]

nah, let frigates be stinky

[astral kayak]

got golden on first try 😎

[empty cargo]

these people doing golden easy after hull shotgun fix

[wild timber]

hull shotgun and hull swarmers

[empty cargo]

we had to suffer through those

[finite wave]

👴 Back in my day we had to do extreme UT uphill. Youngsters these days

[jade zenith]

Wind in your face, sun in your eye

[last olive]

(Corvette, didn't try others) Charge laser kinda feel like a trap, they're only better in select few scenarios and in most others they overkill a few enemies and then get swarmed, and since 1. the enemy composition is unpredictable and 2. you can't adjust the ships/mods, it's a gamble you're really likely to lose. Unless I'm missing something.

[nova light]

yep, charge lasers are kind of stinky in UT

unless you get like 40 fire rate mods and 10 charge lasers

[finite wave]

I generally dont like the rail guns (for frigates for example). Its like an awkward mix between missiles and just base cannons

[nova light]

rail guns are objectively the best weapons tho

missiles are surprisingly good on either cruisers or fighters but otherwise stinky as usual, and charge lasers are absolute dogshit on fighters and usually worse than usual

but MR is just generally always good

[fleet steppe]

Missiles splitting off and hitting lots of targets might be better than expected for aggro management

[nova light]

turns out missiles are pretty good on anything but frigates

frigates kinda suck LMAO

[old hound]

just a bit

[fleet steppe]

z89 gives more artifacts than z95 right? How much more?

[finite wave]

2x, it should say it on the UI

[jade zenith]

it does

[untold valve]

I had gotten to 12 on my first run before the fix, and haven't gotten past 8 on any subsequent runs. 😦

[storm bay]

Try mono sniper rapid fire barrier CL corvettes with 1000+ range and all damage/fire rate

[jade zenith]

did my z95 run

cleared stage 16

if only it was z89 T_T

[finite wave]

Current max is 33, but low rolled some mods. Not sure if there is a theoretical max but I do want to find out what it would be 👀

[rain kindle]

Was there supposed to be a message at the end of the battle? Or does the "when finished" mean when implemented in a future release?
Basically, I am curious if the max artifacts we gain are the same no matter what/how many runs we do ? If so, whats the point of going past stage 10?

[jade zenith]

you bank your run

and then can spend stages from it on autoclears

so while you get the same artifacts from a stage 10 clear as a stage 15 clear, the stage 15 clear will be able to be used for autoclears more times before it goes below stage 10 and starts giving less artifacts

[fleet steppe]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1345838938572455966/1356073382914818359/image.png?ex=67ebe601&is=67ea9481&hm=82a6953a895ccc7a1743b5aef253405088d8cffc7628da8d9e849ad10ff4c938&

Well here's something a little higher

Ignore the bisected base he's currently not grooving

There definitely is a theoretical max stage, the scaling runs out of control

[finite wave]

Huh neat

[fleet steppe]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1345838938572455966/1356073452909629440/image.png?ex=67ebe611&is=67ea9491&hm=d3628e2a8f6f571081f26d479d59beb6e01553218a40d07f6590d605894a36b5&

Very fat

[alpine hemlock]

huh, the mono i did was cruisers. the enemy types eventually became nothing but mediums

but mono fighters keep a vareity?

[fleet steppe]

Yeah, because cruisers raise enemy ship "amount" and mediums take up more of that cap easier

[alpine hemlock]

funny. picking +cruiser when it's a option is not a no-brainer then

[fleet steppe]

Ultimately I'm pretty sure mediums will still fill enemy units if you got far enough... But I doubt you can with only fighters

[alpine hemlock]

and if fact might always be bad

unless you have really good cruiser mods i guess

[fleet steppe]

Cruisers are a bit inflexible

Low target amount, and they get clogged by small units

[alpine hemlock]

maybe. they have high fire rare and multiple target weapon options though

[fleet steppe]

There's some line of thought that the upgrade increments are the same for cruisers as small ships, while enemy size increases "faster"? Idk, maybe it's not correct to try to think of them that way

[alpine hemlock]

also, they kind of concentrate you mods. if taking a cruiser is like taking 2 small ships

then your cruiser mods are on a higher effective % of your fleet

[fleet steppe]

Perhaps yeah

I find it hard to manage aggro with cruisers on some layouts and mediums charge in and break them down faster than I'd like

[alpine hemlock]

yeah targeting priority is a bit of a crapshoot

you can do the same to them. you can sometimes make the enemy smalls fly diagonally through your cruisers field of fire and get shot to peices

because they're trying to get to your smalls in the other corner

[fleet steppe]

I find that being able to do that becomes harder in later stages

And taking cruisers means more enemy ships show up

So your own ships tend to want to fly forward

Hull bomb is pretty cool though

[alpine hemlock]

the auto balancing logic of enemy spawns may have some perverse strategic results

if i understand, armor and shield enemy spawns are restricted by your weapons. i was told +1 more can spawn than you have the vulnerabilty for?

which means that if you pick shield killers it makes more shields spawn

so if you don't like shields you want to avoid the thing that kills shields ???

or maybe that just means a balance is always better?

[finite wave]

36 max for now, 37 seems to be too much for what you can get so far

[fleet steppe]

News to me

[opaque marlin]

lol.. Lag creator

[nova light]

still not the fattest though

[alpine hemlock]

I feel like UT needs some area effects. without their built in armor and shields, all the basic ships are bodies and stats. and the upgrades are all mostly the equivalent. so fighters > corvettes >>> frigates

almost entirely from # of bodies

[raven seal]

I don't even know how I'd get that combo

[nova light]

well it kinda exist already

[alpine hemlock]

i meant for the enemy, as much as for us

missiles do exist

but they are pretty soft aoe

[nova light]

no enemy skirmishers already exist pls no more

[alpine hemlock]

if we had aoe it would be especially good against skirmishers

and if the enemy had some, it would give frigates a reason to exist

[nova light]

future galaxy stuff™️

[alpine hemlock]

frigates are ok (but not amazing) in galaxies, with their weapons and armor. new UT is different now

compared to corvettes with the same dps, the same range, half the bodies and not even double the hp

[nova light]

rip lol

cruisers are still good because they are mediums with much beefier stats

[alpine hemlock]

did some mono runs forcing versatile railgun

fighter dies at 32, corvette at 30, frigate at 22 lol

mono doesn't need to be balanced but that's still not a good showing

[nova light]

skul

[fleet steppe]

man I thought the frigate hate was a bit unwarranted but that's a pretty significant drop

otoh i can't remember ever picking frigate as a ship option 🗿

[nova light]

frigates aren't very good

[storm bay]

Just set it to mono and reroll for corvettes

Pick charge laser and then get the sniper variant after

Then just grab all the things

[untold valve]

stage 33 is nuts

[alpine hemlock]

tried it, got to 24. seems underwhelming. very sensitive to enemy composition

[storm bay]

I think I got 30+ with it. You have to avoid skirmishers

[fleet steppe]

mediums also body charge lasers really hard I feel

[alpine hemlock]

30 seems like a lot. did you have "no extra ships" on too?

[woeful zephyr]

it would be nice to have a UTC clock on the UT page. Maybe above "Run Modifiers". Which shows both the date and time in UTC.

[fleet steppe]

damn

[storm bay]

get frig'd

[fleet steppe]

charge laser was able to work here

offtyped enemy defense kinda ended me though

also thinking on barrier

+1 hit kinda... doesn't feel that great (I know it was buffed but thinking more on it)

medium enemies deal a ton of damage and you'd love to tank a hit from them

but they have 2 turrets, so they'll blow through the barrier and one shot the ship anyway, if it doesn't have a ton of health

snipers also spawn in groups of two, and while positioning definitely changes things, if they double up on a target then barrier tends to also not get much if any value

[woeful zephyr]

double rare? 😮

[woeful zephyr]

😄

why is this 17 instead of 18 though? 🤔

oh wait I actually died on stage 18

[alpine hemlock]

barrier doesnt need to be amazing, it needs to be worth more than 10% damage plus whatever you picked it over

i think it always will be except maybe on cruisers

in standard runs it's even better if you can pick it for a ship that has fewer of your offensive mods

[raven seal]

4 is a mistake, 3 was bad enough, straight up nerfed me, though at that point, 1x is less damage taken than 2x speed

[fleet steppe]

Just one more hit...

The burst fire could still have some merit, DPS is lower but if you kill in one blast as opposed to two, then it's probably better

[raven seal]

it felt like it slowed it down significantly more, because it'd stay on the same target longer because of the burst when it was killing

[raven seal]

on the other hand, 2 stacks of burst fire on missile barrage with fighters is straight up hilarious and lags out the game quite badly