#Fleet optimal play reinforce pattern sucks

1174 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

hexed bluff
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so like this recommends 110 currently, and once you're like 3 levels higher than it it stops scaling FR directly and does the reduced fuel cost?

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worthy crypt
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yup

hexed bluff
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yeah that seems fine then

worthy crypt
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I dont quiiiite like the little added complexity, but it wont really effect anything in most cases anyhow

hexed bluff
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wasn't sure if the numbers would make it harder to complete g4 for a normal player at first, since FR scales by 10% per sector while this new mechanic would only scale by 5%

worthy crypt
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well, at least for up to G4, I feel like people just complete it way UNDER the recommended if anything so prety safe there

hexed bluff
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it has a pretty wide spread, i started earlier than the req but the last few runs were at 113

worthy crypt
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right and now youd actually get those instantly as opposed to having to reinforce to get more fr for your visits

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also still considering the bigger swap to fixed FRs and its just fuel for going further, but that needs to go hand in hand wiith UT changes to make it not feel so awful when a galaxy is super high fuel cost

hexed bluff
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yeah the immediate max stage update sounds really nice

worthy crypt
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ya its def coming in this update just have to iron out some display shenanigans

reef parcel
lyric jetty
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can think of a few players whom that'd affect

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namely the ones who gave the g4 advisor runs of like 4 corvettes and 4 frigates in b3 early in the patch

reef parcel
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all the galaxies are VERY winnable at recommended FR

lyric jetty
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oh they are, but that doesn't stop the time lords/cheaters from being shit at videogames

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I'm looking forward to it personally

reef parcel
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ive not seen anyone above the recommended FR ever say they're struggling in the discord personally, and ive seen a over a dozen try to brute force G4 at s103/104

lyric jetty
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you should've seen some of the shit people were posting on like day 2

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I'm at sector 122 and how do I beat the mediums in g4???

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type stuff

reef parcel
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What?

lyric jetty
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like I said, cheaters

reef parcel
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s122 w/o maxing G4... thats insane. Youre not even playing the game

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i kinda want to try and do a max FR challenge run of the galaxies using only one ship type

lyric jetty
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idk if this update is big enough to bring them back out of the woodwork

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but you might see some of them pop up again

reef parcel
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@worthy crypt can we have a fleet channel? We could have a sub channel for each galaxy (combine G1 and G2) , one for UT, and them maybe a challenges/speedruns channel?

lyric jetty
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on that note I was planning on putting together guides for g2+

reef parcel
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This will likely be THE thing that is keeping me hooked through the eoc phases of the game personally

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I am too

lyric jetty
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or some kind of compendium of good clears

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right, so I might ping you at some point so we can work together on it

reef parcel
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yeah, the challenge is how detailed to be on documenting fleet clears relative to the R/S nodes

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thats a LOT of screenshots to do a proper walkthrough

lyric jetty
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mhm

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the shorthand from the g1 guide isn't too bad for the early galaxies, but it'd get hard to follow by the end of g4

reef parcel
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im also planing on making a proper UT guide that, if followed with practice, should get everyone to stage 8 wins every time (which is always doable im convinced)

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you can DM or ping me on the galaxy guides topic when youre planning on digging into it

lyric jetty
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will probs be after the dust has settled from the next patch, like a week or two from now?

reef parcel
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gotcha

lyric jetty
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might have to poke some old saves with the FR changes and see what's realistic

reef parcel
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yeah, it shouldnt be hard to get a R4 clear save to work with

lyric jetty
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oh and a 3-run g1 might be doable with a high enough starting FR, so there's that too

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anyway I should have a bunch of saves prepped for various FRs

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only thing I don't have right now is 102-104 with G1 untouched

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but I can whip those up pretty quick

reef parcel
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id love access to those, if youll Dm me the strings for em

lyric jetty
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will do

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@worthy crypt g1 max fr is locked in at 133 yeah?

reef parcel
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what is s103 FR? hes using 3 sectors above recommended as the FR cap

lyric jetty
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133

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I'm not sure how viable 3-run g1 is since it takes a while to hit 103 and by that point you've probably capped on fuel (and you would need the FR in the first run to get both A nodes) but it can't hurt to check

reef parcel
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honestly i think itll be VERY rare that its worth holding out to the FR max sector to use your fuel

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at least until G3+

worthy crypt
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ah I forgot about that downside

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hmmm, I can setup a fleet channel later, I dont like over fragmenting things though

lyric jetty
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we've got #1087067061458579486 , maybe expand that

worthy crypt
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ya ill make a fleet one similar later

reef parcel
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thats fair, but galaxies use so many screenshots and have mechanics that dont crossover so mixing the channels would be very confusing and spoilery

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I think any structure of the fleet and galaxy system will always produce a meta strategy for when to bank or spend your fuel

static bridge
lyric jetty
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it's not that it's hard, it's that most people would hit 4 days before reaching 103

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bruh g1 advisor is wild

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static bridge
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bruh who needed four corvettes

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also 1/133 ???

lyric jetty
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ye I'm trying a run with s103 fr

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ok well 3-run g1 with 103 is trivially easy to do, so I'm gonna try 102

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since reaching 102 before capping on fuel is much easier

static bridge
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is 2 runs possible 🤔

lyric jetty
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no, 3 is the hard limit

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2 would require base 6 lol

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yeah 101 can't afford A2 in run 1 but 102 can, so 3 runs is doable at 102

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nvm I am stupid

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I forgot to reinforce lmao

lyric jetty
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ok ignore all that, for some reason I thought g1 needed 90 artifacts but it's apparently only 60?

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well whatever, maybe 2 runs is doable

static bridge
lyric jetty
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2 runs would be very hard though cos you need enough FR to get frigates and A2 on your first run

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and I'm not sure that's doable on 133 FR

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so probably just as well we aren't getting 146 max because that would make it doable

static bridge
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how many runs was g1 intended to be done in lmao

lyric jetty
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5 iirc

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4 is easy if you ignore frigates on your first run, which was not intended

reef parcel
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4 is pretty doable even if you get frigates run 1 though iirc?

lyric jetty
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honestly, it's g1 and until this coming patch there was never a reason to think too hard about it

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so I don't really know

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just that most people did it in 5 runs day 1 and it took a while for people to do it in 4

static bridge
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it took a long while for craftyduck to find the perfect 4 run clear

reef parcel
lyric jetty
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it's probably been improved a bit with patches since then tbf

reef parcel
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fair

static bridge
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yeah those were like day 1 clears

lyric jetty
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when fleet first came out there was some jank to it, though idk how much it affected g1

static bridge
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we optimised battles by swapping 1x and 2x mid battle

lyric jetty
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definitely would've been a lot of people just putting ships head-on 1:1 and calling it a day though

static bridge
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it was a little chaotic

reef parcel
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I think we should work on making guides for galaxy clears at the 'recommended' and 'max' FR thresholds

lyric jetty
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for sure

reef parcel
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midrange has too many possible combinations

lyric jetty
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the cursed thing is going to be what happens when you gain FR mid-way through

reef parcel
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unless we assume after each base +1 sector...

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which is a decent midpoint

lyric jetty
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nah best to keep it simple for now I think

reef parcel
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a min and max guide should be plenty

lyric jetty
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a clear compendium for each galaxy would be the next step after that probably

reef parcel
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it might be worth doing a 'under-farmed' walkthrough, lots of people try and force s104 G4 clears

lyric jetty
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since we'd probably need it anyway to start figuring out FR thresholds for clearing in X runs

static bridge
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it doesn't matter

static bridge
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just like the wiki says you can do cc9 early a lot of people try to force it and waste a lot of time

lyric jetty
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if they're getting instant FR, they shouldn't be at s104 doing g4

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surely

reef parcel
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when FR changes in real time without requireing reinforce, FR changing over the course of completeing the galaxy will be relativly common i think

static bridge
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and uh yeah, we don't have to reinforce for FR again too

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didn't consider that

reef parcel
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(which is the gateway to making that viable)

static bridge
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again, we really shouldn't encourage people to do it very understatted

lyric jetty
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probably something to go in the #fleet-discussion channel once it exists

reef parcel
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oh, it can be phrased as a path of suffering, not encouragement

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i think many embark on it out of ignorance

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seeing itll take 2 weeks of fuel should be deterence, not encouragement

lyric jetty
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but think of the synth speed you could gain!

reef parcel
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i dont follow...

lyric jetty
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and you could unlock alien synth and spend 3 hours crafting 1 alien biomaterial!

reef parcel
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Ive seen people in s105 asking what 'quadrooted' meant and i cringed at the implication they knew to ask

lyric jetty
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mhm

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guide making is a very dangerous game

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people will try and brute force anything and everything

worthy crypt
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speaking of, thinkin fleet thing shoudl just be forum like challenge? does that work pretty well? or another set of text sections? I like forum just cause its less cloggy on the left, but nott quite as obvious

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ah nvm forums fine

reef parcel
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can the first pin be a list of threads for each specific galaxy?

static bridge
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fleet being what it is doesn't fit nicely into progression channels like other systems do

reef parcel
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agreed, but having places to talk about a specific galaxy will help keep the main channel less cluttered

static bridge
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side effect of the galaxies not being strictly tied to sectors

lyric jetty
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forum w/ 1 channel per galaxy?

reef parcel
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and one for UT

static bridge
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combine g1 and g2 🤔

lyric jetty
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nah, g1 will be where a lot of people are asking basic questions about the fleet system

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so it needs its own section

static bridge
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hmm true

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isn't that #r3-s107 tho

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it's a very 'r5' question

reef parcel
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i think combining 1 and 2 makes sense, they have the same FR recommendation so they are essentially part 1 and 2 of the 'first' galaxy

weak vessel
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This isn't exactly the best place, but could we get a sandbox version of Fleet Battles? So we can set up both sides of fights to tinker for practice/guides.

quiet python
small talon
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I'd rather see all FR costs in that galaxy doubled than having a 0.5x multiplier.

quick ruin
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including ships? so pure psychology of higher costs vs lower income?

static bridge
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neither feels great

tender saddle
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feel like it didn't change much but sit on eoc scaling not s100

quick ruin
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it removed one extraneous reinforce per galaxy, that's not peanuts

hexed bluff
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i'd slightly prefer if FR and associated numbers remained smaller than like 100k, otherwise it's more annoying to do quick mental math with

quick ruin
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runaway inflation, the new Zimbawean FR

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1 New FR is worth 100k old

small talon
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if people weren't, it'd be different

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Also, the only reason I didn't reinforce yet is Alien Synth XP.

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Without that, I see absolutely no reason to hang out at S120.

quick ruin
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fundamentally, "hanging out at 120" is not really different than pushing 121, aka playing the game

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that was the goal

small talon
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I'm maxing Alien Synth

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then I'll Reinforce

quick ruin
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that's fine

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but it's still a subset of the desired behaviour, of going as high as you can while playing fleet

small talon
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If at that point I'm reasonably close to finishing G5, I'll idle at S100

small talon
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Which is why I answered to Cake

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It's because we're at EOC that it feels like we're just waiting for G5 to finish

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imagine starting at G5 after completing G4

weak vessel
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you just cry, because the stuff that will make the climb back less painful are deep in the artifacts =\