#How does ABRoot v2 protect itself from becoming dirty where ostree fails?

14 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sturdy perch
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In the recent presentation at GUADEC, Pietro di Caprio is asked a question about how ABRoot differs from other comparable solutions. In his answer, he states the following:

"Thank you for this question.

The main difference, I'll give you an example with ostree for example, that is what is usually compared to ABRoot. You have two main points:

  1. How easy it is to use ABRoot. Because, you have the two-root partitions and that's it; everything is managed, you as user don't need to do anything.
  2. And then you have how the system is clean on the long run using ABRoot compared to other systems; such as ostree. On the long run, the user is required to perform some manual maintenance, because the system gets dirty. With ABRoot, everything is managed; also maintenance-wide. So, you don't have to care about it."

Of course, we'll have to take his word on it as ABRoot v2 isn't accessible to the general public yet. However, even though I can definitely imagine how ABRoot might be easier compared to ostree, I don't understand how something like rpm-ostree that's used on Fedora's Immutable Desktops is not able to manage the system such that it stays 'clean'. While ABRoot manages to do just that.

Did Pietro di Caprio's mention of ostree also include rpm-ostree? Is a rigorous comparison available? If not, could someone provide an explanation as to how ABRoot accomplishes 'cleanliness' beyond what (rpm-)ostree is able to do?

left stream
sturdy perch
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Sure, it's around minute 47

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47:00 is kinda the start of his answer*

left stream
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ostree keeps the system clean too since it's just images

sturdy perch
left stream
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yeah i don't understand what he said there

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ostree keeps the system as clean as abroot v2 to my knowledge

sturdy perch
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Yup, as that has been my understanding as well, I was surprised to hear his answer. So that's why I'm here to find out more about it 😅 .

opal vine
left stream
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@solemn fiber can you mention something about this?

solemn fiber
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Hello there, the main difference between the two is in the long run. ABRoot does not keep such long system history and does not require the user to know about its existence.

In truth the best person to ping for details in this matter is @empty mirage that is who explained me what he personally did in ABRoot to be a valid alternative.

P.S.
About how clean is the system in using ABRoot there is no meaningful difference between v1 and v2. V1 is already keeping the system clean on the long run too

empty mirage
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That statement was a bit rushed due to the timing. I do not have much time now for a complete answer but it’s my plan to write an article soon. For the moment: ostree relies on ostree repos and what Pietro said refers to how the system is updated, the states are managed and how the overlays managed by rpm-ostree works. They both has the same goal with different approaches and benefits. With ABRoot we have a complete separate root partition with its separated boot, each root has its own lifecycle, while ostree generates states which are similar but in a more complex structure

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I’ll return on this later since I’ve to go back to work