KDE Spin?

[upbeat fjord]

Plasma has its own tools

So much that people thinks it's bloated

[upbeat fjord]

yea i know, the wording made me think that for some reason they'd use a gtk based file manager on KDE

Nah

KDE would use QT/KDE Circle applications

gud

[upbeat fjord]

For example, you have kde pm as equivalent of gparted

Also no KDE won't use konquerer

Compared to Epiphany, Konquerer is actually unbearably bad

Konqueror Is kinda dead afaik

yeah

Even on arch or EndeavourOS, a vanilla plasma ships Firefox

Which isn't surprising

Firefox is just the default of Linux basically

[upbeat fjord]

yea ik lol

ive browsed the giant list of kde software

even used some of it on windows

kde connect is on windows

suprisingly

[upbeat fjord]

It is. Also Android and iOS

I use it between my two Android phones no PC between

nice

[visual halo]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1023243681324617780/1068102541839192114/image.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1023243681324617780/1068102591277453322/image.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1023243681324617780/1068075994621149194/image.png

it's pretty nice. Dolphin default theme sucks tho

Anyways, other than Qt and GTK, is there any other toolkit/design language that matter?

huh, i thought the vanilla-base will have an ISO, sorta like debian-minimal or archiso. it's just something for devs?

[upbeat fjord]

this has nothing to do with the thread topic, and how sacrilegious

[upbeat fjord]

so far seems for devs

[visual halo]

lol they mentioned about being surprised of KDE Connect on Windows. A lot of KDE stuff is on Windows

[upbeat fjord]

iirc it was there since windows 7

[granite wasp]

Yeah, I use KDE Connect in Windows too, works like a breeze

I am surprised that Dolphin is available too

[upbeat fjord]

the only kde app worth on windoz is kde connect

[upbeat fjord]

replace whole windoz shell with plasma

[granite wasp]

• Kden live

[upbeat fjord]

then install linux kernel

[visual halo]

Yeah, I used KDE Connect on Windows 7 as well since the Google Summer of Code first public release. They still have issues on our crappy routers detecting devices but they're good enough most of the time

[granite wasp]

I think it was fixed

[upbeat fjord]

so you will get rid of explorer and everything til you end with a real distro bit by bit?

[visual halo]

Kate is pretty good, though I do use Notepad++ most of the time

[upbeat fjord]

anyways, this thread exists for vanillaOS plasma

not fur windoz

[visual halo]

I mean you can use WSL. And gtk apps works pretty well on WSL. But yeah, I'll probably replace Windows w/ VanillaOS KDE6 once that's out

[granite wasp]

Yeah, it is surprisingly getting better with every new release

[upbeat fjord]

why would I? by that time you will get rid of explorer, powershell, cmd, then the kernel and then the filesystem. it will become a full distro then

so it is kinda pointless. better replace the whole system with one command

[visual halo]

Speaking of replacing, I recall Dolphin on Flatpak having some issues with theming on Wayland, it just uses the same default theme as my screenshot. So I'd think that should be installed as system app?

What other default apps is a Vanilla flavor expected to have? System Monitor, partition manager, terminal emulator, text editor, image viewer, screenshot tools, uh, media/video player?

[granite wasp]

I think it's up to the community who creates the spin. But for KDE mirkob seems to be interested in supporting whoever creates and maintains the spin so the official selection of apps might be discussed collaboratively. (Also, in the handbook we have plans to include KDE alone with GNOME. And allow other spins to create their own handbook guides).

[visual halo]

maybe tabs like this, for different DEs?

[granite wasp]

Nice idea, but does Jekyll support it?

[visual halo]

I found this? it looks decent https://github.com/Ovski4/jekyll-tabs

[upbeat fjord]

I think Pop OS is using something different in the new rust-based Cosmic DE they are working on

I believe its called the 'Iced Toolkit'

[granite wasp]

Yes

[upbeat fjord]

They also are going inmutable

[upbeat fjord]

not really

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgagYGdS9nM

[upbeat fjord]

Already watched that

[upbeat fjord]

ok

[wary scroll]

iced/libcosmic maybe soon, flutter exists but idk how relevant that is

[ruby copper]

Maui too

[visual halo]

This is probably going to be something that some will disagree on, but if KDE is going to be the "gaming edition" of Vanilla OS, then maybe it should have some of the tweaks that Nobara has? Or at least make it available as part of initial setup/install process like Endeavor or risiOS.

Though I have also heard and experienced some tweaks that causes instability (Garuda was especially unstable for me, until I turned them off one-by-one on their GUI) and it'll be a lot of work and testing, so that's why I'm sorta half-and-half on it.

[upbeat fjord]

It won't be gaming edition

[visual halo]

completely vanilla like fedora kde then?

[upbeat fjord]

Yeah we have guidelines about this

[visual halo]

Relevant: https://pointieststick.com/2023/02/08/packaging-recommendations/
https://community.kde.org/Distributions/Packaging_Recommendations

[chrome nexus]

Can I have the VanillaOS KDE beta spin link

please

[upbeat fjord]

There is no beta

[chrome nexus]

Isn't there a github link to something though

[upbeat fjord]

No cause development hasn't been started

[chrome nexus]

Oh I must be thinking of something else

[upbeat fjord]

(And won't be for a while)

[hollow shore]

wasn't there a "headless" version already?

[granite wasp]

No

[hollow shore]

oh, sorry

[visual halo]

Someone did make a KDE iso, but that's a month or so ago, and based on an outdated release of Vanilla. It's not even a beta, as much as a proof-of-concept "Yeah, I can install KDE, and pack that in an ISO."

[granite wasp]

@tall plume is the person who did it

[hollow shore]

btw how the spins are gonna work? every spin has it own team?, like fedora spin and ubuntu flavors

[upbeat fjord]

yep

[hollow shore]

nice thank you!

[upbeat fjord]

see https://vanillaos.org/2023/02/03/vanilla-os-core.html

[hollow shore]

i already read it hahah,

[upbeat fjord]

ah

[hollow shore]

but thank you nonetheless

[analog vortex]

you cant just install KDE in the meantime lol ?

[upbeat fjord]

highly discouraged

[analog vortex]

ok why that ?

[upbeat fjord]

Small root partition and it becomes a config mess

[analog vortex]

oh ok

you cant just remove gnome

and go for KDE ?

for the partition size ?

[upbeat fjord]

No cause vanilla os has some important stuff in the package afaik

besides all the preinstalled applications are for GNOME too so that would also hinder your experience

[upbeat fjord]

you can, if you set abroot, apx and vso to 'manually installed' with "apt install abroot apx vanilla-system-operator" in abroot shell

[hollow shore]

the #public-dev talk about adding and entry button in the configs panel with trhe "prime drivers" gonna extend to the flavors too?

[upbeat fjord]

There would need to be a dev that:

1. makes it in qt
2. implements it in the settings for that flavor

[hollow shore]

like this?

[upbeat fjord]

Yeah exactly, it will be something like that for GNOME too

[hollow shore]

hmm

yeah, gonna be tricky

[upbeat fjord]

I mean, it's all possible once we have a dedicated team for KDE. But the main focus for now is really on the flagship GNOME edition

[hollow shore]

fine

[sharp jungle]

isnt that also because the next release is LTS?

[violet blaze]

Next release is LTS? Ubuntu 23.04 is not an LTS release so I don't think Vanilla 23.04 will be LTS.

[sharp jungle]

idk then

[upbeat fjord]

I've been working on plasma-welcome custom pages for Vanilla OS KDE. Link: https://github.com/dogyx/vanilla-kde-welcome-pages Any feedback would be appreciated. 🙂

[wary scroll]

I think the "Applications" needs to be subdivided into each app (and the category as a whole) like it is in the existing First Setup

[upbeat fjord]

LIke, the user should be able to pick the exact packages to install, and not only by category / pre-defined group?

[wary scroll]

bingo

[upbeat fjord]

Got it, thanks for the feedback! 🙂

[hollow shore]

hello man, can i ask what programs that you use to program and QML, because i'm interested in learning, but don't know where to start

(i want to learn to help developing the canilla kde spin, i just help translating right now)

[upbeat fjord]

(Joining the dark side)

[ruby copper]

In my experience, helping existing projects will help you learn whatever you want to learn

You can ask questions in the KDE Matrix rooms. I'm sure the devs would love to help you out

[hollow shore]

yep, i thinked about this, but idk, why bother the devs with just my silly questions 😅

i tried to download the source code of some kde applications to learn from it

but god it's complex lol

[ruby copper]

Oh trust me, I really doubt they'd see it as a waste of time

If a developer doesn't want to help, then they simply won't. They aren't paid to help, so it's entirely volunteer based

[hollow shore]

hmm

[ruby copper]

The only reason I became a Bottles dev was because I "bothered" Mirko with "silly" questions :)

[hollow shore]

yeah

heheh

[ruby copper]

If you feel like you "owe" the devs, then you could contribute to their software in return

[hollow shore]

thank you

you convinced me

now i'm in owe with you, gonna learn qml and help developing the kde spin >:)

[ruby copper]

LET'S GOOOO

Do you know how to code at least?

[hollow shore]

lol

just a little

[brazen ridge]

Kde

[sharp jungle]

EDK

[visual halo]

https://github.com/dogyx/vanilla-kde-welcome-pages
@upbeat fjordnot sure if i like this page, i think it's very easy for people to just not pay attention and skip it

[crude frigate]

I actually like it, is very in the style of kde new welcome screen, is clean and I think during setup the user should pay attention. I personally would not separate them in multiple pages

[visual halo]

i like the look too, but i think some people might just skip it. i think forcing people to go through each sub-pages might be too much, but maybe an "are you sure?" dialogue would be enough

[granite wasp]

One question, Regarding translation, now that it is becoming Qt the POT file template's format needs to be changed too would it be possible to use some of the existing translations or do we need a new component for it (assuming this tool gets adopted officially for KDE flavor soon)?

[upbeat fjord]

I have no idea, am still pretty new to this stuff.

[granite wasp]

Oh noted

I too don't have a lot of experience with translating Qt applications, that's why I had this question.

[sharp jungle]

dope

[fresh pebble]

Question regarding preinstalled packages. KDE Neon ships with little to no bloatware compare to something like Fedora KDE Spin. Will the Vanilla KDE version will be shipping with akonadi or other KDE Apps that most of the distro do ship alongside?

[upbeat fjord]

The base will be minimal to guarantee stability, you will probably be able to choose those apps in the first setup.

[fresh pebble]

that's good to hear, by any chance, do we have any idea on time to take for project completion?

[upbeat fjord]

Development isn't done by us, the release of the KDE flavor relies on another team stepping up and developing it.

[fresh pebble]

okay, btw now kde is moving to qt6 for plasma 6 and 376 out of 658 projects already build against qt6, do you think the vanilla kde will be shipped with plasma 6 or sooner?

[upbeat fjord]

Again, entirely depends on another team

[fresh pebble]

got it 👍

[upbeat fjord]

I do NOT like GNOME at all, it is far away from the way i like to use a PC, i have tried many times to get used to it with no success, a KDE spin would be a very good reason for me to install and try VANILLA OS and more i anticipate to try an ORCHID KDE spin 😀

[violet blaze]

A KDE spin will happen when someone will make it. You are free to start working on it.

[plain heart]

I just think that a KDE spin should not be inferior to a Gnome one. So no lazily ported gtk apps or something.
Doing it right sounds like a lot of work but I will probably not be the one doing the work so I'm all for a KDE spin.

[ruby copper]

We know #1037058089779744809 message

Although I'm still against 'official' spins

[violet blaze]

I will probably not be the one doing the work
so I'm all for a KDE spin
What do you mean? You want the Vanilla OS developers to create a KDE spin? That is not going to happen (at least that is the status for now).

Also, it not only includes porting apps to qt, but also, for example, porting the GNOME software plugin to Discover, adding the Vanilla OS specific settings (Driver manager, etc.) to KDE settings and patching all the KDE counterparts of things Vanilla OS patches.

[plain heart]

I didn't say that. I just don't care enough about KDE to work on it myself.
But if there's a team that is passionate enough about making this then why not.

[violet blaze]

The thing is there is no such team for now.

[plain heart]

yes

[random fern]

if another team does form I would be happy to participate in the very humble ways I can manage, if nobody's taken the initiative to start I can maybe start thinking of an outline

[tacit heart]

i personally wouldn't even think of it until orchid comes out and the documentation improves for a lot of this stuff

[visual halo]

I think for now the likeliest thing to happen is for people to use VIB to layer in KDE's recommended packages on top of the basic Vanilla OS image to create a basic spin. It wouldn't have the Vanilla OS tools in Qt, but it should be enough to satisfy people who just want a functional KDE image to use without messing around with the package list themselves

[plain heart]

You need a lot of knowledge to do that tho, so I think not a lot of people will do that.
And getting a random image from someone else would be really sketchy.

[violet blaze]

It is as easy as adding the list of KDE packages to a json file...

[plain heart]

You still need to build it somehow.

[visual halo]

It's easy. I've been building my own ublue-os image for two weeks now. Assuming Vanilla Orchid basic image don't have any cruft, it's as easy as adding whatever is in the Debian KDE metapackage, match it with KDE's own distribution package recommendation, and then making sure it's added to the json/yaml list.

And you don't need to get someone else's image. While people can certainly use a trusted community member's image, with the way VIB should work, it should be as easy as grabbing a user's config file to build your own.

GitHub can take care of the build process. It's just a question of how good the Vanilla Orchid base image will be for making new DE images, to determine how much stuff you need to add/remove- as well as how easy VIB setup will be. ublue only needed a single command to set everything up, it really shouldn't be that hard to make something similar to their setup.

[upbeat fjord]

BTW, KDE had a really good-looking mockup regarding a possible Waydroid integration in Discover, https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/svdcbb/would_you_use_any_android_apps_on_plasma_if/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1

[visual halo]

It wouldn't. It would be handled by community, by us. Vanilla development is now done in mind with a minimum base image in mind, and so long as that is done, the Vanilla dev can then just continue as normal, while determining which ones belong to base image and which one belongs to main Gnome image

The question in that regards is with the VOS GUI apps, like the new Apx- should that go to the base image?

don't know if it should or shouldn't, but so long as there's an easy way to install it in a KDE image, while we wait for a proper Qt version (if it ever made- I don't think anyone ever made Qt Bottles for example) then I don't think it's a major issue

[random fern]

Well what I would say is that waiting for a qt version is moot: if we want it we must simply make it, otherwise work around it if it is out of our means

[violet blaze]

There are 3 images. The VSO GUI and other things are part of "Desktop" Image, which also includes GNOME. You can base the KDE image on the "base" image which includes only command-line Vanilla OS tooling like abroot.

[winter gate]

I'll consider doing this after Vanilla 2.0 releases, if nobody else picks it up

[upbeat fjord]

Maybe this is a place to start to get KDE Neon into an OCI image -> https://community.kde.org/Neon/Docker

I'll gladly contribute if I can help with something.

[winter gate]

Lets just install APX on stock NixOS KDE and call it a day 😆

[violet blaze]

APX is not the core offering of Vanilla OS anymore, it is a developer tool now...

[winter gate]

I'm just trolling

[sharp trout]

I've generally always been a Gnome user since it's default in the distros I tend to use... BUT, this thread inspired me to pick up KDE again for the first time in years.

I have to say, from the perspective of an immutable desktop, KDE makes a lot of sense. It can change so much of it's functionality and workflow without a single extension which is fantastic for anyone wanting to keep their environment "vanilla" without sacrificing the ability to adapt to alternative workflows.

Uh... so I guess, that's a long way to say "+1 for KDE spin".

[violet blaze]

No, KDE is not really very good with immutable distros. It is slowly changing, but still not as good as GNOME.

[visual halo]

KDE is fine for an immutable distro - I've been using Kinoite for a while, now, and it's been fine.

The main issue is just that some modifications, that are exposed to users, still needs mutability - like SDDM themes which is included in many Global Themes (and can actually mess with Global Themes installation process sometimes).

By contrast, GNOME either just store everything in userland, or just doesn't allow modification unless you really hack into it (e.g GDM theming)

[violet blaze]

It is more than fine. But it is not as good or better than GNOME w.r.t. immutability specifically (as the person I replied to was implying). Also, the problem is less with KDE and more with number of developers motivated to work on an immutable KDE distro. The thing is all the KDE based immutable distros don't have even half as much developers/testers/users working on it than their GNOME counterpart.

[visual halo]

A part of me wish there's a KDE neon immutable

[brazen ridge]

Oh no not gnome, KDE is way better

[distant nebula]

PS: don't comment with "oh no, GNOME/KDE is superior..."

[brazen ridge]

i didnt

[distant nebula]

"Oh no not gnome, KDE is way better"

[brazen ridge]

yes exaclty

i complied with sir mirkob's request

by not saying "oh no, GNOME/KDE is superior..."

[distant nebula]

You said "KDE is better" that translates to "KDE is superior"

[brazen ridge]

yes but my wording is different

[distant nebula]

Same meaning

[brazen ridge]

also how can u translate enlgish to english

[brazen ridge]

but i didnt comment "oh no, GNOME/KDE is superior..."

[distant nebula]

It's the same meaning.

[distant nebula]

Yes, but still that is what you said.

[brazen ridge]

no didnt

[distant nebula]

Yes you did, you said KDE is better

[brazen ridge]

it might mean the same thing

but the words are different from which markob said not to use

[distant nebula]

I am sure Mirko meant that he didn't want a beef like this, like KDE is better/superior or the other way.

[brazen ridge]

yes and i obliged with his request

[distant nebula]

Not really, since you still said that KDE is superior then GNOME.
Better mean to a higher or greater degree.

[brazen ridge]

i didnt say kde is superiro

i said it is better

[distant nebula]

Same thing, that means it's above GNOME.

[brazen ridge]

i didnt say its above

at what height is gnome

i dont know

[distant nebula]

No...

Better means superior, what are we arguing about?

[ruby copper]

@brazen ridge I'm muting you for a few days for obvious troll

[trim knot]

abuse of power

[ruby copper]

Banning you for evading mute

Jesus, some people have no life x)

[distant nebula]

Thanks man, you don't know how I was feeling

I wanted to smash something

[ruby copper]

I get that lol, no problem

[random fern]

wow, that was an asinine conversation

2/10 trolling

[violet blaze]

This thread can be misleading. Maybe pin the latest status and lock this thread?

[random fern]

probably best as there isn't much more to say unless people want to actively collaborate on a preconfigured setup or discuss converting their setup to kde, but a new thread can be made for that

[dusky crane]

i mean, even if you lock it, yeah, there'll just be an epic sequel

[violet blaze]

This message #1037058089779744809 message from Mirko at the beginning of this thread suggests that a KDE edition will be made by Vanilla OS team. This is no longer true. KDE edition won't be made by Vanilla OS team. So, this thread is no longer needed. For other discussions regarding KDE edition, separate threads can be opened if needed.

[sick wedge]

huh, this thread is alive again? i thought it was dead for months

[distant nebula]

Hah, no

[torn forge]

This is sad

[distant nebula]

Maybe edit the message?

[violet blaze]

A KDE spin may be made if some other teams steps up to make it. You can be first member of that team if you want 😉 .

[sick wedge]

Why? Realistically, the (or at least current version of the) VOS team will never have the bandwidth to maintain a KDE spin to their quality standards, this was inevitable

Thankfully, when Orchid comes out, it will be much easier for any community members to step up and make the spin themselves. Will that member be me? Hell nah, im a gnomie lmao

[torn forge]

Quite frankly I'm not sure I'm good enough for this :) But yeah I'm sure the community will find a way to make a spin :)

But yeah at the end it won't change much

[sick wedge]

Anyone who really cares about KDE could make a simple spin with ease when we have VIB, the harder bits will be porting VOS GUI tools to QT. While you could just use their command line or GTK equivalent on your machine, the solution will have to be fully KDE native for the spin to be officially recommended iirc

[torn forge]

I really should try Gnome once

[dusky crane]

you, uh

lock it?

...after saying that speech?

[ruby copper]

Yeah good idea, I'll just lock it