Move External Port Forwarding issues

[keen shell]

Anyone know how to use the External Port forwarding in Move? Anytime I try to select it in Live (Either in Input or Output) it disconnects Live from Move. This is with a USB Hub or without one.

On Push 3 (Tethered), it works fine. I don't even have to select the External Port, it just recognizes whatever is connected into the USB-A port. (USB Hub and without)

I have tried removing the MIDI connection from the MIDI studio in Audio MIDI Setup and adding again multiple times with no luck. I have also tried reseting the usb port on my macbook.

Will probably contact support as it seems faulty or is this how it's suppose to work?

[hard kernel]

Hey, have a look at this article here: https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/14661164865308-Using-MIDI-with-Move

Ableton Move (External Port) - Connects Move’s USB-A MIDI with your computer when Move is in Control Live Mode

[keen shell]

I fully read the article, so the External Port forwarding is suppose to be different between the Move and Push?

And based on the article, Move cannot connect to the same devices that the push is able to connect to? The device I am connecting to (M8) is NOT a MIDI host.

Also, the article doesn’t explain my Move disconnecting from Live every time I select the External Port as shown in the video above.

Again, I’ve tried resetting the Move midi on my Mac multiple times as also recommended by the article.

[hard kernel]

If you want to use Move in Control Live Mode in Live:

• You need to use the "Live Port" if you're using the USB-C cable; selecting a different port will cause Move to disconnect from Live because the wrong port is selected.
• You can use the "External Port" if Move is connected via USB-A (as I mentioned before).

I haven't tested this on Push but it should work the same: if you connect Move to the USB-A of Push, it will work with the "Live" and the "External" Port

From the first video you share, it looks like Move is connected to the computer via USB-C, that means that you need to use the Live port

[keen shell]

Connection to the computer is not the issue here, I am only pointing out what I noticed when selecting the ‘External Port’ in Live

Using Move in Control Live Mode isn’t the issue. It’s when I connect another device in this case the m8 (but also tested Roland S-1) to the USB-A port of the Move/Push. I expect the same behaviour from the External Port between the two.

So Move works in Control Live mode using the ‘Live Ports’ and can’t use ‘External Ports’ whatsoever. Thus cannot forward external MIDI the same way as Push

And there’s no issues connecting Move to Push, no problem with that

[hard kernel]

I'm sorry, but I'm still not understanding the problem fully. I looked at both videos again, and there are a few issues in your Control Surface setup:

1. Push 2 and Push 3 don't need to be selected in any of the dropdown menus. Live detects automatically Push 2 and 3 when you connect it to your computer. The control surface scripts that are available in the menu are for Push 1, which uses a different technology, and, if you enable it in the Options.txt, you can use the Push 2 Legacy Script.

Selecting Push in the dropdown and changing the I/O ports may cause issues

Then I can also see that you selected Move on multiple dropdowns. I strongly suggest to clear them all except one because selecting the same Control Surface multiple times can cause issues

Then, as I said, if we are talking about "Control Script", you must select the "Live Port" because that's the one that let your Move and Live talk in the right way

On Push, the “External Port” is physically connected only to the MIDI I/O TRS ports on the back.

[keen shell]

Okay I will clear it but I don’t have any issues with Push.

[hard kernel]

Move doesn't have any MIDI I/O physical connection except the USB-C (for Live Port) and the USB-A. The "External Port" on Move is not attached to anything

[keen shell]

This happened after deleting the Move from Audio MIDI setup multiple times

[hard kernel]

Now, if you can describe clearly what do you want to achieve, I can think of a solution 🙂

[keen shell]

This makes sense as I have zero issues connecting other devices to Push while connected to Live (Don’t need to select anything in the dropdown either). Only Move is giving me issues in this use case.

[keen shell]

I would like to use my Move in the same way I can use the Push connected to Live and I noticed I have an External Port issue with my Move that hasn’t seemed to go away even after trying various troubleshooting options like the one you mentioned above in the article

So connecting the same external devices to the USB-A ports of both gives me different results

[hard kernel]

Honestly, I think that is exactly the culprit: on Push, no problem because the messages are sent to a different port (External Port), on Move, that doesn't work because the "External Port" sends MIDI to the USB-A (that's my understanding by reading the documentation), so if you're sending other MIDI messages, those are send on the same port.

As I'm reading the kbase article again my understanding is:

if Move is connected via USB-C to Live and it's set in Control Live Mode, MIDI messages sent to Move's USB-A will be forwared to Live

but you don't need to change anything in the settings

[keen shell]

This is my issue, so:
with Push, you’re saying it handles ‘other midi messages’ with the USB-A port differently than Move? This is confusing if Im trying to connect the same external devices to the same port on each.

So in theory if I clean up the control surface issues you mentioned and don’t change any settings it should work

After testing I can confirm the devices do not forward midi or ‘other MIDI messages’ to Move the same way it does on Push

In other words, my M8 can’t connect to the Move the same way it successfully connects to Push. Same thing goes for the other devices I tested (J-6, S-1)

On the Push, my other midi devices show up in Live as a separate device. On Move they don’t show up at all

This is the main concern as I don’t have another Move to fully troubleshoot and in my opinion I believe it may be a hardware issue or bug but I haven’t seen anyone else mention this issue

[keen shell]

Also, this is after removing Push from all dropdowns and cleaning up the control surface settings in Live.

Let me know if you’re still having trouble understanding. Hopefully it’s clear enough for you

[hard kernel]

I need to check with our developers, but Push is basically a computer, and its USB-A port works as a USB hub. On Move, it doesn’t, and that port can only be used to send and receive MIDI messages; it doesn’t expose all connected devices the way Push does because the hardware is different.

[keen shell]

Perfect, so I do not need to contact support for this issue as they are supposed to function differently from a hardware standpoint. This answers my question, thanks again and my apologies for the trouble with clarity 🙏🏾