As the title says. For all my windows + android homies out there.
#Android Version?
serene iron
upper vine
I know android's audio processing sucks but an android version would be amazing. I mean if FL studio can do an android app 8 years ago Ableton should be able to
wraith bloom
i vouch for this one HEAVILY
note looks amazing but i'm not much of a fan of apple products
serene iron
Same, I already don't make alot of money and its hard to justify buying a new phone just for ableton note.
wraith bloom
apple stuff in general is just not worth it actually
blissful egret
Does anyone know how low latency you could get with the newer low-latency Android libraries https://developer.android.com/games/sdk/oboe
Last time I checked, I found an interesting article (I can't find it again) where it looked like Android still defines low latency more in terms of what you would want for gaming, not so much music making. I think everything beyond 20ms is hard to take serious for live playing, especially drums / sounds with strong transients.
I could get < 10ms roundtrip latency on my windows laptops 20 year ago with ASIO, not sure why Android is messing this up so badly.
With the current state of Android towards music making / real-time, I can totally understand if Ableton doesn't want to go into it. The apps are cheap and you're probably getting a lot of issues / support load with the huge variety of Android devices (which range from shitty to great)
burnt crater
And Sony (apparently Sony is boss of art phone world but the least marketed phone and only the largest developer companies utilize it.
I want to get away from Apple but Android is kind of unstable.. Sony has been good to me.
<#
wraith bloom
is audio latency that bad
couldn't you just offset the playback to negate the delay
youtube does this with bluetooth headsets automatically, and i'm surprised it's like the only thing that does
blissful egret
couldn't you just offset the playback to negate the delay
This only works when you play back existing sounds. There's nothing to compensate when you play live, at least until we figure out how to predict the future 🙂
wraith bloom
aren't you playing existing sounds tho?
you are indeed doing changes but it's not like you're playing a rhythm game like guitar hero with an audio offset
the changes being delayed shouldn't be that bad
maybe it could pause and roll back a little bit so you can hear the changes the first time
blissful egret
If you do live-finger drumming, it's like playing guitar hero. Yes, the sounds are existing, but they will only play when you trigger them. The latency between the trigger and the sound coming out is what causes the issue. I do notice latencies like 20ms, it feels like its getting sluggish to play. If you play real acoustic instruments you are used to them responding real-time.
half ore
Does anyone know how low latency you could get with the newer low-latency Androi...
Afaik, it's not so much that Android can't do relatively low-latency audio, but that the performance varies so wildly between different hardware and OS combinations, so one device might be practically unusable while another device is perfectly fine. Like you said, dealing with a deluge of support tickets along the lines of "why does my old cheap Android phone with an ancient and bloated stock ROM not have professional-grade performance?????" would probably wipe out every penny Ableton made from Note sales on Android.
On my OP10 Pro, which isn't even running the latest OS, and is definitely loaded down with a lot of apps, the timing offsets of audio latency are more due to my own reaction times than the actual latency of the audio output/playback latency. I'd need to run more tests to get the exact results in absolute terms, but there is zero perceived latency.
I'd guesstimate that the absolute output latency is around 5ms.
blissful egret
It would be interesting to learn how good the latency on good android devices is. If output latency is really just 5ms and the input latency (touchscreen, MIDI) is also below 5ms, it sounds usable
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2021/03/an-update-on-androids-audio-latency.html I remember this blog post, but back then improving latency meant from going > 100ms to 39ms average, the best devices getting to 28ms (still unusable, imho). That has been 2021 though.
half ore
In my link above, looks like they got 15-18 on some devices.