atlantis is bs

[frank gale]

Atlantis is bs change my mind

first of all plato is not the first guy to map africa it was map centuries before him

second he didnt even map africa in the first place maybe he talked about it but thats not the same as mapping

third even if he did that doesnt automatically credit his myth stories

[thin knoll]

Woah i got pinged

Wonder who wants something from the dookie monstee

[frank gale]

fourth he said it was sourrounded by three circles of water sure but he also said it was larger than the asain minor and africa combined

you cant cherry pick what sounds good and what doesnt

[thin knoll]

Wait? Sooo youre not doing that?

Or your just gonna list the sources after

[frank gale]

thats not what cherry picking is

[thin knoll]

Just askinngg

You pinged me

I told you no

[frank gale]

the burden of proof is on you sir

[thin knoll]

Nah

I never said i was gonna agree to this, i dont care to go get my sources for someone who didnt go look into it

[frank gale]

all good if you dont want to discuss thats fine

just dont make silly claims and be suprised when someone says somthing

[thin knoll]

👍 so you can remove the ping and let others discuss

[thin knoll]

Any ignorant person can say something

[frank gale]

no need for toxicisity brother

[thin knoll]

I didnt think i was being toxic, just stating you discredit what you didn’t research, because youve done other research which also isn’t provided with sources, i just never wanted to put my energy into it, but if you want to maybe it could be done a little more appropriate

[frank gale]

you are assuming i didnt reasearch

it doesnt take much knowlege to know that 9,000 BC humans where hunter gathers

and that there is no three rings island as big as africa in the atlantic

well i suppose if you think demigods ruled it it doesnt have to be humans

[frosty fossil]

ATLANTIS IS REAL!!!!

[thin knoll]

No i didnt, i just said youve done other research, and asked you to source it if you care to put energy into it

[frank gale]

what have i said that isnt common knowlege?

just so you know the history channel isnt a credible source lol

[frosty fossil]

I saw the movie Atlantis once. So you know, can't get harder proof than that.

[thin knoll]

Is that where youre getting yours from? Oh wait i wouldnt know its all just “common knowledge”

[frank gale]

i seriously dont know what i said that isnt common knowlege

i feel like your attaching your identity to your beliefs please understand im not attacking you just propositions

[mortal nova]

The soundtrack to this movie unleashes something in me

[frosty fossil]

Yeah you get it.

[frank gale]

the sequel is better

[frosty fossil]

The sequel was mid

[frank gale]

lmao

[frank gale]

im not gonna lie tho those Atlantis chicks are kinda fine

[frosty fossil]

They were fine. But mole. He could get it

[frank gale]

LMAO

lmao imagine

[frosty fossil]

The only live action Disney movie people want. Sad

[frank gale]

lolll

[thin knoll]

Do you feel like im attacking you? Is that the problem?

[frank gale]

dude

no

[thin knoll]

Ok just making sure

Do you think im being a smartass?

[frank gale]

please tell me what you want sources for tho cuz i seriously dont know what it is that i said that you dont agree with

[thin knoll]

Tell me who mapped if before plato, tell me how you know, tell me where he said its larger than africa, its not that i “dont agree” it’s just im holding you to the same standard you wanted to hold me to before i told you i dont care to put energy into this, and actually told you that BEFORE you made a thread and decided to ping me in the top

[mortal nova]

(To be fair, most of them weren't. The age of hunter gatherers started to come to an end around 10.000 BCE)

[frank gale]

Plato never mapped tho

[frank gale]

The Egyptians and Greek nations mapped Africa

One of the earliest known maps featuring Africa is the work of the ancient Greek cartographer Hecataeus of Miletus, who lived around the 6th century BCE.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecataeus_of_Miletus

[thin knoll]

Herodotus, not plato, since ig im putting energy in now I mean aswell make sure i have it right instead of just assuming cuz they’re both greek, and i saw greek name and said fuck it thats probably right

[frank gale]

👍

[mortal nova]

Atlantis: Milo's Return is bs. Change my mind

(I haven't seen it yet tho)

[frank gale]

Nooo

😭

[mortal nova]

KPS movie night when?

[frank gale]

LOL good question

[mortal nova]

But to address your actual topic:
I live my life as if Atlantis definitively does not exist. But it is impossible to prove a negative.
Since you're the one actively claiming that it's bs, technically you have taken the burden of proof upon yourself.

I think it's more constructive to say: Any claim that Atlantis does exist, is insufficiently backed up by the facts.

[frank gale]

There is no prime number greater than two

There is a negative statement

There earth is not flat

There is another negative statement

It is a common misconception that you can’t prove a negative

Also when I say Atlantis is bs I’m not saying that I have 100% certainty or proof that is was not a real thing just that it is completely unreasonable to believe it was a real thing

Irrational and unreasonable

[mortal nova]

(You mean smaller?) 🤭

[frank gale]

Oh yea I suppose I posed that statement wrong

I meant to say there are no even prime numbers greater than 2

[mortal nova]

Ah alright. Of course there are special exceptions (This one, for example, is merely a definition), but there is no way to prove non-existence of an entity (which is what I meant by proving a negative)

[frank gale]

Not a definition I would say

A prime numbers are a a part of math

[mortal nova]

Even means being divisible by 2, prime means divisible only by 1 and itself

By definition, every integer that is not 2, cannot fall into both categories

That's the same as saying "There are no multiples of 3, greater than 3, which are prime" Like no shit

[frank gale]

I suppose you could say it’s a definition yea

[mortal nova]

But of course, tautology is still a valid proof, so I will count that as an exception

[frank gale]

Realistically even could have multiple definitions that do no entail the idea of being divisible by two

Like ever repeating integer after 1

But anyways

You get the idea

[frank gale]

And I would also contend that you can disprove the existence of some entities

[mortal nova]

This is also not the same as proving the non-existence of a flat earth, it is describing the qualities of an existing entity

[frank gale]

Like a entirely purple and entirely black square circle

[frank gale]

Yea I am just saying you can prove a negative that was my example

[mortal nova]

Yeah bad word choice on my part there 👍

[frank gale]

👍

I do agree the title is a bit sensationalized but that was the idea lol

[mortal nova]

Well of course, language is fake and colors don't really exist, so there is a gray (hah) area where both purple and black would be accurate descriptions 🤣

[frank gale]

Haha I can’t agree with ya

For example make purple = the set of photons that produce the experience that the average human eye receives as a distinct color that is recognizable as “purple”

[mortal nova]

Yeah so we can experience that in multiple ways

We can even hallucinate it

[frank gale]

Yes which is why I defined purple as the set of photons

[mortal nova]

Which of them?

[frank gale]

the set of photons that produce the experience

[mortal nova]

So if you're shining a purple light, but no one sees it, it is still purple?

[frank gale]

Look at the full definition lol

[mortal nova]

Yes, so what if no human eye receives it?

I would say that the experience of the color purple itself, is way closer to an actual definition

[frank gale]

So if we examine the photons that produce the distinct sensory observations that is recognizable and we can find the average set of photons that produce the experience

[mortal nova]

But yeah you would say that certain combinations of photons with red and blue wavelengths are purple?

[frank gale]

Exactly

Yes

[mortal nova]

Even miniscule levels of light?

[frank gale]

The set would include the average intensity as well

[mortal nova]

What is average intensity if intensity can be infinitely big in theory?

[frank gale]

It can’t

As a certain point the photos cook your photo receptors which ends the edge of the set

Lol

[mortal nova]

Not if comes from many light years away and hits your eye after redshifting exactly when it's purple xD

Hahah

[frank gale]

Yes that means the photos are purple

They changed in state

Color is relative

It is a very loose definition but can still be used as an measurement to make predictions and goals

Which makes it just as real as anything else

[mortal nova]

Ohhhh I see what you're going after now xD

[frank gale]

This is a great conversation lmao

[mortal nova]

Yeah so we agree on everything, except my obviously stylistic use of the phrase "colors don't really exist"

Hahaha

[frank gale]

Yes

[mortal nova]

This is exactly what I was saying, it basically confirms that an object can be entirely purple and entirely black at the same time, depending on the interpretation of the visual input

[frank gale]

Mmm

I don’t agree

The set of photons as described in the definition cannot exceed a range

[mortal nova]

Like, can you send me a purple disc and the send me a black disc and the difference is infinitely small but still positive?

[frank gale]

So let’s change it to green and purple cuz that is easier to understand

[mortal nova]

Well that's a definition thing again xD

I'm not gonna argue with that haha

[frank gale]

?

What

[mortal nova]

Well just like a square circle, a married bachelor etc

That's not an entity that can be either proven or disproven

It's not an entity at all

[frank gale]

Wdym by it in “It's not an entity at all”

[mortal nova]

You can create a paradox by using inherently contradictory language, but that doesn't provide any substance on the question whether non-existence can be proven.

[frank gale]

The statements I’m making are intended to be ontological

[mortal nova]

It's just a linguistic paradox

[frank gale]

Nah

The idea of a square assumes a specific demential structure in the external world

As does a circle

So when we say “there exists a square circle” imagine the statement is being made as a real thing that exists externally

That can be square an circular at the same time

Meaning it can have 4 sides and 1 side at the same time

“There exists and object that has 4 sides and 1 single side at the same time”

That’s a hard one

Pete doesn’t change his mind

@limpid talon scared of getting roasted

😆

[mortal nova]

The definitions are mutually exclusive, so even bringing any combination of those within 1 entity breaks the law of non-contradiction

[frank gale]

Exactly my point

That entity can therefore be disproven as an thing that actually exists

[mortal nova]

You cannot disprove something that cannot even be defined

[frank gale]

I just defined it

[mortal nova]

well defined*

[frank gale]

An object that has 4 sides and 1 single side at the same time

Well defined and disproven

[mortal nova]

Well I mean topologically they are the same

hahaha

[frank gale]

I can make another complex set definition if you want lol

[mortal nova]

But hey, maybe there's some non-euclidean shape where some entity exists that does fit both properties

Wouldn't surprise me

[frank gale]

All I have to do is throw in a Euclidean square circle lol

Which I assumed was a given lmao

[mortal nova]

But no, it's not well defined

Since well defined expressions should be unambiguous

You can throw random words in a blender and ask whether your smoothie holds a truth value

But that's just because language isn't the entity it describes

[mortal nova]

(NB of course this is about the square circle and the like, since they are expressions based on mathematical logic and the contradiction only exists because those expressions are mutually exclusive)

[frank gale]

Good convo I like your contention well though out

[mortal nova]

Yess it's been a while since I've had a good back and forth like this ^^

[frank gale]

Maybe talk to you later but the more I talk to you the more I respect you the world need more ppl that use their brains 😆

[mortal nova]

🙏

[soft violet]

I would point out two things about purple:

It isn't just a range of light wavelengths that can make humans perceive purple. It is also combinations of red and blue light that trigger the red an blue cones in our eyes. This is how your phone makes purple.

Also, I can close my eyes an imagine purple without any need for photons at all.

This you can't really define purple in terms of photons.

Also a cylinder can be a square circle. It can fit perfectly through a round hole in one direction and perfectly through a square hole in another.

[mortal nova]

While square can be a pretty vague adjective (For example, you could call a squircle a square circle), you can't just call a cilinder a circle, because it fits through a circle 😋

A circle is 1-dimensional and you're making it a 3-dimensional object haha

[soft violet]

A circle is a shape on a plane. A cylinder has planar cross sections that form a circle and a square. A flatland being who encountered one would see it as either depending on the angle at which it intersected their reality.

[west kestrel]

The Disney movie is not bullshit

The claims that it's real more likely than not are, though

[boreal coyote]

So is Atlantis real?