#How would you react if the closest person to you came out as queer?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

compact ivy
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Title sums it up

warm dirge
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I'd say: "Sounds good!"

compact ivy
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Nice

shadow cypress
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Yeah this wasn't the way I wanted to spend a birthday dinner with Pete... but here we are

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I am accepting

compact ivy
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Lmao

compact ivy
shadow cypress
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With him comin out as queer 🤣

compact ivy
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Right

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But why is that bad

olive pebble
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“I’m gay”
“Stfu bro Ik u playin 😂”
“U right 😂”

compact ivy
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Bruh

ebon patrol
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i mean im queer as fuck so i'd just say "welcome to the club"

olive pebble
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😆

shadow cypress
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dick jokes work the same way with a gay friend lol

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Actually one friend I met online a year ago is super gay, married and all.. nonstop talkin about his sex life... so instead of dick jokes, its more or less tellin him to go face down in a hairy mound

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its all good stuff

topaz lark
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In my country there is not really a stigma around coming out as queer, so I guess I would be like: '' Oh, ok''

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mind you, gay marriage has been legal here for over 20 years now

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also, if the person is really close to you, you probably know from your gut feeling already before they come out right

olive pebble
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yea fr tho its like "ok"

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if i told someone like females they would be like bruh bruh

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same thing for gay ppl

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why is it such a big deal

compact ivy
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It is not as socially acceptable as being straight

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But yeah in itself theres nothing outstanding about it

thick path
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The person closest to me is my mother

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If I found out she was queer I would be fairly upset seeing as how it would heavily damage our family bonds

compact ivy
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Why would it damage them?

thick path
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Cause I have a father who would be divorced

compact ivy
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Ah

thick path
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And a sister who would lose her father

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Who loves him very much

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I have tons of gay friends I just would be distraught if my mom was suddenly gay

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It would make family dynamics a clusterfuck

compact ivy
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Thats fair

topaz lark
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Oh damn that is relatable

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The uncle of my best friend of 15+ years recently divorced from his wife after coming out as gay

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he is about 60, has 4 kids

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they had been married since their early 20s

compact ivy
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Ive always wondered how that can happen. It must be, if not 100% at least mostly caused by society's rejection of gays, because otherwise I cant imagine people dating people they dont have attraction to.

topaz lark
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Sort of. They are a very religious family who don't accept queer people, so he just married someone in the hopes that he would become straight over time

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they think it is a disease or something that you can learn to overcome

compact ivy
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Yes so what I said

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Changing sexual orientiation can happen but ive never heard of someone who went from 100% gay to 100% straight

topaz lark
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Yeah but in the wider society in my country gays have been accepted since he was of marrying age

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so its not really society but more like close friends and family who rejected it

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maybe thats what you meant idk

compact ivy
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Right. Well im saying it comes from a rejection of yourself at some point. Doesnt have to be from every direction

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Thats my point

surreal hollow
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My friend came out to me when we were in the Army. My response was, "You're not in love me are you?" He says, "No." I say, "Then we cool" and we continued to discuss his secret life before "Don't ask, don't tell". He became an Airborne medic who also carried a little C-4 in his bag.

compact ivy
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I fell in love with a lot of my close friends over the years so if I came out to them my response would likely be yes lol

olive pebble
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Bruh

thick path
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The pfp says it all

compact ivy
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The trash was taken out

thick path
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Im glad thats over

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The neo confed and fascist is gone praise parlox

compact ivy
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Yup

olive pebble
compact ivy
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That guy was banned

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Homophobic

olive pebble
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😂

compact ivy
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And also nazi symbol

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Yay?

olive pebble
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He did?

compact ivy
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Yep

olive pebble
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I thought his pfp was mitt Romney

compact ivy
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It can contain mitt romney and have a nazi symbol

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The things are not contradictory

olive pebble
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Oh 😆 I’m blind ig

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Does the server not allow homophobes?

shadow cypress
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post-ban

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Pete could elaborate his own position, feel free to ask

compact ivy
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Thats unacceptable anyways

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Homophobia by itself is not bannable but of course it depends how far its taken

olive pebble
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Yea fair enough

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Yea makes sense

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I feel like this should be a safe space for all ideologies as long as they aren’t directly harming/harassing someone else

compact ivy
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The line that he said "im digusted by it but I wouldnt cut ties for it" (paraphrasing) wouldnt be bannable but if he went on and said that gay people should die then yeah thats done

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But of course he's a neo nazi so he probably thinks that

olive pebble
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😂 yea

topaz lark
thick path
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Yeah he was the same guy with the nathon bedford forrest pfp

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Which I told him to change

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To which he said that he supports the confederate generals

compact ivy
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Report that to us next time

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Thats obviously not allowed in here

thick path
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Okay

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Noted

jade beacon
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I actually had a best friend in HS come out to me, back before being gay was cool.

oak cairn
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It would feel unusual as it would contradict many years that I have spent learning about a person, though that makes me think of a voltaire quote "it's not more surprising to be born twice than to be born once"
And then we move on and embrace it I'd say

compact ivy
compact ivy
oak cairn
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There's a question in Peter upcoming q+a regarding situations where it's OK to tell a lie.
I wonder how that applies here. Sometimes the truth causes just as much irreversible damage as a lie can. Thus many considerations must be made

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Petes*

compact ivy
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Well the guy suffers on a daily basis because he's stuck in a marriage where he doesnt feel attraction to his wife

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That is a very unfortunate life

shadow cypress
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zing

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I dont think I answered but if a close friend came out to me as gay, it would only change the jokes we use. Instead of joking about dicks I'd joke about them muff diving

topaz lark
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i know times back then were different sure

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but still

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it seems so unfair to all other people involved to marry someone you don't really love only to fit in

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i find it even worse for his (ex-?)wife

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if he knows at 50 he is gay, he knew very well before he got married that he was gay

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but wanted to fit into society so just marries some girl anyway

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imagine the mental torture being his wife, getting to know that after 20, 30 years your husband who you loved never actually loved you back

jade beacon
jade beacon
# compact ivy I didnt know being gay is cool now

Then come to USA where amount of LGBT adults have doubled in the last decade, and gen Z is about triple of that value. So it's over 6x more common in HS now then when I was there. That's all I was getting at bro.

jade beacon
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It just takes more courage to be one of say 20 kids in an entire school than being one out of 300, assuming they are up to the national average.

compact ivy
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Right but theres still a lot of discrmination

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Its not fair to say we have equal rights

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Well, at least thats the implication I got when you said its "cool"

jade beacon
# compact ivy Its not fair to say we have equal rights

Discrimination and rights are 2 different things tho. There will always be negative people that will discriminate against you for anything. But at least here in the states, LGBT people do have equal rights. I know I'll get canceled for saying that, but frankly I don't care anymore. They can practice their sexual orientation anywhere straight people can. So if im missing something, you'll have to explain to me what right LGBT people don't have yet.

compact ivy
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Straight people dont experience nearly as much discrimination for their sexual orientation. Sure we can get married, in some places, but ya know, 14% of gay, lesbian or bisexual youth get bullied relative to 7% of heterosexual youth

jade beacon
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There is no right to not get bullied. Fuck I'm straight and got bullied.

topaz lark
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because i can imagine that maybe the amount of ppl being lgbtq is not higher now, but in the past people didnt come out

jade beacon
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You can't control other people

compact ivy
jade beacon
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Control what you can and learn to be an overcomer

compact ivy
jade beacon
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Obviously the first one

compact ivy
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Why would that be the case

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Are people being made gay?

topaz lark
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the first one seems less likely to me

compact ivy
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Is that whats happening?

topaz lark
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that would imply that being lgbtq is a choice

compact ivy
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Right

topaz lark
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which for all i know it is not

jade beacon
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Indeed that is the narrative

compact ivy
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We know the narrative

topaz lark
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so how would that work?

compact ivy
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Whats the truth then?

mild sparrow
compact ivy
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According to him, yes

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Hooray

topaz lark
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i am straight but it is not a choice

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i was born that way

mild sparrow
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that is exactly what being gay is like 😛

topaz lark
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no i know

compact ivy
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I can tell you with a 100% guarantee, I did not choose 1 day to be bi

topaz lark
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i couldnt choose to be gay even if i wanted to

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so i acn imagine the other way around is the same

mild sparrow
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there could be an argument for normalization leading to an increase, but not because there are more gay people being created its just that a pre-existing phenomena is being normalized

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or maybe even explore sexuality in ways that they wouldnt have even considered previously

compact ivy
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Right sorry, misread your msg before

jade beacon
compact ivy
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So you can?

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Damn, didnt realize you're literally god

jade beacon
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I'm not stating one way or the other

compact ivy
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So you're a cowardly god

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Cool

jade beacon
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Keep putting words in my mouth

compact ivy
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I shall

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Im having fun

mild sparrow
jade beacon
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Nope

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That is fact. There used to be less, now there's more

compact ivy
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If you expect us to understand your argument then explain it

compact ivy
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Appearance doesnt equal facts on the ground

mild sparrow
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can you reread his question lol, the fact that there is more gay people today is included in both possibilities

jade beacon
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So you assume

compact ivy
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Yes?

jade beacon
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I dont presume

mild sparrow
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are more people coming out, or is society influencing people to become gay

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which do you think obi?

jade beacon
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Now that is an entirely different question

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And one I am too smart to answer 😉

compact ivy
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I think it makes more sense to assume that than to not assume at all. Fact is more old people came out over time as it became more acceptable. Did they become gay at their 50s because of the queer movement, and it changed their sexuality throught their whole life retroactively?

jade beacon
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Anecdotes are not evidence my friend

compact ivy
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This is not an anecdote my friend

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This is a statistical fact

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Did you read what I said?

mild sparrow
compact ivy
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If you're not even willing to look at statistics then you're not very smart, at least when it comes to this subject

topaz lark
compact ivy
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I advise you to learn a bit about it before making stupid arguments

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And the whole "im too smart to answer" becomes very annoying after you accuse my point of being anecdotal even though its based on research

topaz lark
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''im too smart to answer'' only tells me you are at most average intelligence xd

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most people who are actually smart would never use it as an argument

jade beacon
compact ivy
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Do you want me to send you actual research?

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I'll do it

jade beacon
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I'd also like to not get bullied by the same folks wanting to stop LGBT bullying

compact ivy
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You're saying something that both sides disagree with

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A "maybe" is in direct contradiction with no and yes, not in between

jade beacon
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And any decisions to go against the grain will recieve resistance. This is not unique to LGBT community

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While I can't sympathize with being gay, I can however sympathize with that.

topaz lark
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so you are saying being lgbtq is a decision

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not gnna lie

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thats a weird take

jade beacon
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Again, words in my mouth

topaz lark
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but i asked you, are there more lgbtq people or are more people coming out

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you said there are more lgbtq people

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so you are saying its a decision to be gay

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that what i have problems with

jade beacon
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Yes, we can only know about them if they come out. So as fact there are now more than there were

compact ivy
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Obi, heres the study you wanted

topaz lark
compact ivy
topaz lark
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if you are gay but you are not coming out you are still gay

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wtf bro

compact ivy
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Correct

topaz lark
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thats like putting your hands on your eyes and saying: ''now the world doenst exist anymore because i cant see it''

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do you see how rediculous that is

jade beacon
compact ivy
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Bruh

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Thats not the point

jade beacon
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Or is it?

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How do we know there isn't a link to something? You presume to know it all. I do not

topaz lark
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Bro you are literally saying that if you dont come out you are not gay

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makes no sense

compact ivy
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Let me make it real simple friend. Say they are currently 100,000 islands in the world. For some reason the amount stays the same until the next day. Someone discovers a 100,101st island. Are there now more islands?

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If I dont see your nose, do you not have a nose?

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Your statement is very clearly nonsensical

topaz lark
jade beacon
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If a tree falls in a forest...

compact ivy
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Bro

topaz lark
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just let him be

compact ivy
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So if no one can see you for a day, you dont exist

topaz lark
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he is obviously intelligently challenged

compact ivy
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Awesome

topaz lark
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according to him i dont exist because he cannot see me

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according to his logic he doesnt exist because i cant see him

compact ivy
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Yup

jade beacon
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I think yall have missed the point. But it was fun. I hope yall learned something but I doubt it

topaz lark
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what was your point

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your point was:

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people are not gay if they dont come out

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and if that was not your point then you did a pretty bad job in explaining your point

jade beacon
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The statistics can't say how many people are gay if they don't answer as gay on the questionaire, which I am equating to coming out, whether or not they have to their friends/family. I guess that is the hang up

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I personally wouldn't tell a stranger if I haven't told my family/friends

topaz lark
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nope but my point is that you can be gay without telling anyone

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that doesnt make you less gay

jade beacon
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That is inconsequential

topaz lark
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wait what?

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i am lost

jade beacon
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You can't become part of the gay community without first admitting that you are gay

topaz lark
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no but you can be gay without becoming part of the gay community

jade beacon
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Sure

topaz lark
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okay so back to the original question:
are more people gay now or are more people coming out now

jade beacon
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Asked and answered

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I dont see why we need to rehash this

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A better question is how many haven't come out then and now?

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And I have just the answer for you provided by our good friend parlox

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If this was still increasing for the old folks, then that would mean more are still coming out and be proof of his anecdote.

Screenshot_20221122-100047_Chrome.jpg
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However it's flat from middle to old

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Young by the way is 20-40 per his study

mild sparrow
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wouldnt that reflect that there is a consistent percentage of the population who are gay and have always been gay?

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read the numbers on the graph you linked 😛

jade beacon
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No, this is just average age of coming out. States nothing about percentage of population

mild sparrow
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youre talking about first awareness age range of 14-17 and first coming out age range of 19-24

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there is no data here on older people

jade beacon
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If coming out average age change from middle to old, then that would mean more are coming out due to it being more socially acceptable

mild sparrow
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look at the age that you are calling old, its 24

jade beacon
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No, old people are 80+

mild sparrow
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you see the y axis label

jade beacon
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You need to read bru

mild sparrow
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this graph only goes to 26 years

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?

jade beacon
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25 is the average age people 60+ came out

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Same for people 40-60 classed as middle aged

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The phenomenon of younger self realization and coming out is only in 20-40 year olds

mild sparrow
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sorry im only basing this off your graph, i havent read the link i will do that now - but it seems very strange to have an x and y axis that both mean age

jade beacon
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It's just showing the generational differences

compact ivy
mild sparrow
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"The three groups significantly differed in their rates of disclosure during adolescence and emerging adulthood, with young adults demonstrating greater disclosure than the other two groups, and middle adults presenting significantly greater discloser than the older adults."

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doesnt this literally say that the number of gay people is consistent and the time that they realize they are gay is consistent, but that the younger a generation is the more likely they are to disclose their sexuality?

jade beacon
compact ivy
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???

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Young adults come out average at 19

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Middle adults at 24

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Theres clearly a difference

jade beacon
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But not from middle to old

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That's the key

mild sparrow
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but there is?

jade beacon
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See the straight line?

compact ivy
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Just look at this please

mild sparrow
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i was just about to post that exact thing parlox lol

compact ivy
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I already sent it

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Apparently I gotta send it twice

mild sparrow
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this one also useful

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there is very clearly that difference between middle adults and older adults. its in the conclusions paragraph i quoted

jade beacon
compact ivy
mild sparrow
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obi do you see how on the graph i linked every number in older adults is bigger than every number in middle adults which is bigger than every number in younger adults

compact ivy
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Please look at the fucking percentages

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I swear its not that complicated

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Theres a very clear difference

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Middle adults: 71% come out at adulthood. Older adults: 61% come out at adulthood

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My claim is based on evidence

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Get it now?

mild sparrow
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for example: coming out to exmployer 60+: average age 42.5
40-60 average age: 34
20-40 average age: 26.3

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every single stat follows this pattern

compact ivy
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Yep

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Theres a very obvious statistical rise, implying that over time more people come out because it became easier as culture changed

jade beacon
mild sparrow
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the age of awareness is key because that is consistent, so the generation of 60+ were already gay from their teens they were just not acting on it or coming out until their 40s

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heh?

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30% of 30 is not 30 :S

jade beacon
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Anything with 30% SD is meaningless

compact ivy
jade beacon
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Not talking about young adults

compact ivy
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You are though

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Thats the same thing

mild sparrow
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im actually confused as to what were saying now

compact ivy
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I think Obiwan is confused

jade beacon
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Lmfao, I think you don't understand my point STILL. so I give up

compact ivy
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K

mild sparrow
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are you saying that the differences between each age range are not a full SD from eachother so we discount the differences?

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just trying to understand

jade beacon
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That's how random sampling works

topaz lark
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depends on the sample size and the variance across and within groups

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it is not as simple as saying, the SDs overlap therefore it is not significant

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it still could be significant even though spread overlaps

jade beacon
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Well we are discussing two small groups of 60 people with a SD of 30%

compact ivy
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I'll find more extensive research for you when I have time

jade beacon
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Yes go look for the data that proves you are right. That's how all good research works

compact ivy
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My claim is supported by evidence, but Im sorry that I cant find it years after I read it

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Want me to scroll through years of my internet history?

jade beacon
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Well that is a small task

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😝

compact ivy
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I'll find more extensive research for you when I have time.

jade beacon
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Sorry for my agist joke

compact ivy
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What?

jade beacon
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About your internet years of history is smalll

compact ivy
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Im very offended

jade beacon
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😂

compact ivy
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Im gonna call the social justice police

jade beacon
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Good, ill leave the door unlocked

jade beacon
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But the difference isn't between middle to old, it's between middle to young which validates my position. Thank you

gloomy meteor
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Hi.
Both of my sisters being invested in LGBTQXXXXXXXXXX movements, they would probably start reacting to this question with : "wow wow wow, hold your horses, what do we mean when we say queer ?"

topaz lark
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For simplicity just say anyone who is not straight

compact ivy
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I like trolling though

mild sparrow
# jade beacon I never disagreed the younger generation is different. But the original question...

Im not sure how you can hold yourself as capable of determining whether or not a peer reviewed study is viable. If you have another set of data that proves your point i would love to see it, but this argument about SD is not based on how stats work when conducting these kinds of studies. For example, smoking results in a loss of average lifespan. But the average loss of lifespan from smoking is within a SD. Would you say this means there is no evidence that smoking results in a shorter life? Because it doesnt result in 30% shorter life it should be discounted?

jade beacon
# mild sparrow Im not sure how you can hold yourself as capable of determining whether or not a...

Idk why 30% shorter life has to do with anything. I think you misunderstood me. But yes if smokers life expectancy is within SD of non smokers then that is not the evidence to support your claim. I do expect life expectancy to have a wide SD, so you should be looking at other data instead. For example mortality rate of smokers and non smokers in regards to lung cancer, or say birth defects rate of smoking mothers vs non smoking mothers, etc.

mild sparrow
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🤯

mild sparrow
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more to the point, i already quoted the peer reviewed paper and in its conclusion it supports what we've been saying. so my question is really why do you think you can interpret data better than the process of academic peer review. not to be combative but that doesnt seem like a tennable position

jade beacon
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To believe any peer reviewed article as straight fact is dubious at best

thick path
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This is very misleading

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Most published research isnt peer reviewed

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And peer reviewing standards vary by subject

jade beacon
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And is also not some sort of gold standard

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Always use your own brain

thick path
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Agreed

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I meant the video is misleading

jade beacon
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It's also for entertainment, but it helps get the point across

thick path
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Most scientiffic papers that are peer reviewed tend to be rootedin logic

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Not always true

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But almost never false

mild sparrow
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ill put it this way: the scientific peer review process is not perfect, but it is the single best system for identifying viable information - much better than one persons subjective opinion. even if you think youre literally einstein, no one has the time to learn about every subject in enough depth to parse data without relying on others

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you know how we got this far in society? we rely on experts to be experts in their respective fields, and trust in their conclusions because if every single person wanted to personally verify every single piece of information we would never get anywhere

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im not saying you should not look into things you are interested in and try to understand them better, but when you say things like "there is no SD so there is no valid evidence" it reveals that you are not qualified to make that determination - let alone MORE qualified than the academic community

topaz lark
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sure in 10 years someone can come by and disprove some aspect

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but most of the information would still hold

olive pebble
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Well depends on the country you are in lol

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But in the most progressive countries they are equals

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There is no right that a straight person has that a homosexual can’t have

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Our entire media revolves around them

compact ivy
olive pebble
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To the point where I have been called boring for being a cis white male

olive pebble
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When talking western countries tho there is no inequality right wise

compact ivy
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K

olive pebble
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So homosexuals have equal rights in the western world yes?

compact ivy
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Btw I dont give a fuck about rights

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What matters is whats actually happening, not what the law technically says

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Discrimination is still common place

olive pebble
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Fair enough

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It takes time for our society to fully conform to progressive ideals

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We are at the pinnacle of human rights and I don’t get 20 seconds without being bombarded with the lgbt agenda so that seams promising for them

topaz lark
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''No federal law prevents a person from being fired or refused a job on the basis of sexual orientation'' <<<< >???????????????????????????

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like WHAT

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so discrimination is not federally illegal?

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so does this also mean you can refuse someone a job on basis of their skin colour or gender?

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or is it just sexual orientation that is not included?

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(genuine question)

jade beacon
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I can do that too parlox

Screenshot_20221124-102150_Chrome.jpg
jade beacon
jade beacon
jade beacon
olive pebble
olive pebble
topaz lark
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They are not forcing anything

olive pebble
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ok

topaz lark
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They just say you cannot deny someone BASED on their skin color

olive pebble
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i said im not on board with forcing

topaz lark
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You can still deny them on other grounds

olive pebble
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ofc

thick path
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Its also important to remember religion plays a big role in this

iron olive
# topaz lark They just say you cannot deny someone BASED on their skin color

This is a hypothetical edge case and possibly not relevant. If you are an owner of a small business and you encounter gang activity and they leave a mess outside your business. Every now and then they come inside and harass other customers that are not from the same neighborhood so the gang would see them as outsiders. If the gang or even neighborhood is predominantly one race, you would end up as a business owner profiling and denying service in a racist way.

rare sluice
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Since the premisses of this question is unknown, as in what relation one might have to the person closest, and how close you might be, and how old you are. This seems more like a personal question that says more about the person answering than from a philosophical point of view.
Doesn't it?

rare sluice
# compact ivy Changing sexual orientiation can happen but ive never heard of someone who went ...

We are essentially a reflection of our genetic code influenced by our enviroment. What a person is experiencing as love or attraction can be rooted in various things i imagine, perhaps needs is one? So if you have a need to feel secure (like staying within the norm), you might be attracted to that. Later in life you might not have the same needs and depending on how you are configured be able to change to a varying degee, maybe even change from straight to something else? In this case it could be epigenic, perhaps similar to younger male siblings being more frequently gay, likley due to immunological responses of the mother to the fetus in the woumb.
Anyway, i believe sexual orientation is in our genes, more or less epigenic, and that you have to be born with a genetic potential in order to change sexual orientation drasticly.
One interesting thing is that we tend to expand our sexual preferences the older we get, wich i think is nice, looking forward.

jade beacon
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If what you say is true, that younger male siblings are more frequently gay, I'd say that points to environmental factors and not genetic factors. I would need to see that research to make an educated opinion on it however.

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That doesn't match my personal experience, but I guess it's possible

rare sluice
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It is an enviromental factor.
But if i remember correctly, the study showed the same results on male siblings that did not grow up together, wich points to something that has to do with having an older brother, but that does not have to do with social factors growing up.
I believe the study suggestet that a reaction from the mothers immune system on certain hormones during the development of the fetus in the woumb might be stronger or more common during the second pregnancy and thus explaining this phenomenon. Because male siblings with older sisters do not show this difference.

But while an hormonal imbalance during the development of the fetus might be the most plausible explenation, the root of it is unknown and an epigenetic explanation can't really be dismissed, though an immunological explanation is perhaps more likely or easier to suggest. (Epigenetic - Genes switching on and off, a geneteticly rooted effect, triggured by enviromental causes)

rare sluice
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What i found interesting though is that this study points to that being gay as a male has to do with being physically different from being straight to some extent. In other words, being gay as a man is being born that way and is not something you can change by will. Though if it is possible to change it would probably require that you have the potential to do this, and that potential is what i am suggesting might be epigenetic.
That's why i commented on "going from 100% gay to 100% straight".

jade beacon
rare sluice
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Read some more about it and i'll be interested in hearing what you have concluded. Lets not forget that therr may be different kinds of male gayness and how it is developed aswell.

jade beacon
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This shows the oldest being more likely to be gay by almost 50% if he has 1 younger siblings as opposed to 3

Screenshot_20221129-152155_Chrome_1.jpg
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The youngest of 2 vs the youngest of 3 has about the same average, but the difference in sibling genders exaggerates the spread

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This screams environmental factors. I'd like to see the data for raised independently from each other too. That should look more like only children which they conveniently don't show but I suspect would've made a great control group, that I'd estimate around 6.25 based on these trends

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Very fascinating data that should be replicated in other populations before drawing any meaningful conclusions. Environmental factors could be different elsewhere

rare sluice
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Here's some futher reading and clarification

jade beacon
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Even their paragraphs enumerating the differences highlights the greater impact of having more siblings than the genders of those siblings

jade beacon
rare sluice
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So we have concluded that this phenomenon is due to an immunological response. Thus, it is an effect of enviromental factors.
But that this occurs at all implies that there might evolutionary advantage in it being this way. If so, then the root to this phenomenon is in our genetic code or perhaps epigenetic.
These are my thoughts of it.

jade beacon
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The findings suggesting it's due to some antigen seems sus to me. The graph doesn't show what the levels are, just the average ranking of the mothers/women, with a population of only 140 people. Not buying it

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Clearly they had to use ranking to make the difference large enough to be "significant"

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I guess bc this fits the narrative nobody has dissected this like they do for all the evidence against the narrative.

rare sluice
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Are you suggesting that the enviromental factors are social ones?

jade beacon
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I dont have the time atm but I do want to find that research regarding raised separately. The wiki mentions it but doesn't offer link

jade beacon
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What quantity do you put on having an ahole for an older brother vs a nice older brother?

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There is clearly the link for gender and number of siblings. The cause I feel is still unknown

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If step siblings are unaffected, then it could be something environmental from infancy such as mothers attitude

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How do you measure mothers attitudes toward you when you are 9 months old? You have no memory of that

rare sluice
jade beacon
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😂

rare sluice
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I still think it is an interesting topic though.

jade beacon
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It is. One that gets people a little too heated. I appreciate your knowledge on the subject

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It's one I typically avoid for the politics of it. But the science is fascinating regardless

rare sluice
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Usually these types of questions are polarized, wich brings some heat with it. I usually tend to find myself in the middle. But its exhausting. Its much easier to just join a camp.
I wrote a question to pete about being in the middle of polarized debates in q&a.
Looking forward to his answer.
Whats your thoughts?

jade beacon
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There can be moral or ethical reason to join a camp, those would be based on one's own world view. Other times, science indicates one camp is correct vs another. But usually there is just the gray area of no right or wrong. In any case, one should treat others in the differing camp respectfully as fellow humans, even if they are WRONG and you know it 😆

rare sluice
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Good answer

jade beacon
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I can be a politician if needed. I feel like it's easier to debate the scientific bc its harder to argue with sounds data. The arguments that get the ugliest is when people have different world-views that lead them to be in a camp for moral or ethical reasons. You can't typically argue with someone's world view

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You can learn where they are coming from to try and be more empathetic. But that's about as much agreement as will ever come from that sort of debate

livid dune
glad whale
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To the OP... I've already had this experience with my best friend of almost 20 years and I still game with him every other night. To the discussion... Attempting to use logic and science to define love is dangerous, to the artist; love is pathological. I'm well aware of the validity of evolutionary arguments but why sap the magic from love? Sometimes we just belong regardless of gender identity or sexuality.