If someone gave you the option to become immortal, would you do it? And for the people that say yes: Would that change if it was just you and nobody else ever?
Is it dependent on how that would work, in regards to aging and such?
#Immortality?
rough kestrel
I personally would, in a heartbeat. Regardless of how. But apparently a lot of people think immortality would be a curse, especially if they're the only one.
For now it is purely theoretical, but it could easily be possible within our lifetime to become immortal in one way or another. So it could even be a practical problem in the future.
gleaming gate
Shit if you like life enough to feel that way I'm jealous
rough kestrel
I hate my life right now. That's not why. I'm just fascinated by the world and I'm curious what's going to happen in the future, and I don't think that's ever going away.
I don't love my life. I love life. That's very different.
quaint rover
I don't know. I come from a religious background that promised immortality but now I am an atheist. I have mental health issues that make life hard sometimes and I am not keen to go through that for eternity. Other parts of life I might like to keep for eternity but maybe in a 546256265127 billions years I would be tired of all life offered and just want it to end.
dapper fog
it is dependent of 3 major things IMO
qualtiy of existence am I just going to shrivel into dust
because my body will deterioriate in a painful and slow manor as I grow old
Will I lose perception of reality aka my capacity to feel or experience and lastly can I kill myself if I decide I have lived long enough
whether it is just me or not is wholly irrelevant. however determining he quality of existence is important I certainly don't wanna be atlas nor would anyone who currently exists
rough kestrel
It depends. If we assume that the "immortality" comes from being able to transfer our conciousness into a mechanical form, then the answers to those questions would be no, most likely to some extent, yes. If we assume that it comes from being able to stop the aging process permanently, the answers would be not inherently, no, yes. If we assume that it comes from a higher power, then it can be anything.
The question for me is interesting since we don't know which one is first, if any, and which one I would want.
quaint rover
If we discover some way to permanently end the aging process it could be okay if I was still relatively fit and healthy, but if it trapped me as a constantly in pain, extremely frail 90 year old then that would be a clear no. Of course there may be ways found to reverse the aging process to restore me to being a twenty year, but if they do not exist and I was 90 years old then taking the risk that that never happened might not be worth taking.
rocky mica
Depends on what you mean with immortal, because real immortality cannot exist. But if I read this as ''living for an extended period of time on timescales outside of human comprehension''.
My answer would definitely be NO. I think the most scarce resource we have as humans is time. If you take away that scarcity, then most of the emotions we have are insignificant and our actions inconsequential. I don't see any positive thing coming from immortality.
umbral agate
No
rocky mica
It depends. If we assume that the "immortality" comes from being able to transfe...
But your conscience is nothing more than a modelled representation of how you interact with the world around you made by the brain. Therefore, I am not really sure what you mean with ''transferring consciousness into a mechanical form''.
umbral agate
On a long enough time line probability of any event occurring is higher.... this means sickness injuries and other consequences that we may or may not experience within our lifetime
rocky mica
Consciousness is not some stand-alone property of life, but rather an emergent property of the way our brain functions. If you take away the brain and interaction with the world through stimuli, then conscience would definitely not transfer over.
umbral agate
On a long enough time line you would experience some of the most horrific experiences as a course of inevitably
rocky mica
On a long enough time line probability of any event occurring is higher.... this...
Actually, in the limit of time reaching infinity, the probability of anything that can happen will converge to 1, meaning that anything that can happen will happen given enough time
umbral agate
This is what I mean....if you're immortal you will experience it all... including the inevitable end of the universe...aka heat death
That is of course running on the assumption that you would be in one piece by that point
rocky mica
That is of course running on the assumption that you would be in one piece by th...
Well, i guess that is implied by the notion of ''immortality''
umbral agate
Immortal just means not dead... people assume that also means invincible
rocky mica
This is what I mean....if you're immortal you will experience it all... includin...
No i agree with you, but your wording can be more robust. You said the probability is higher, but actually on a long enough timescale anything that can happen will happen. Which is what you said but i guess a bit more rigorous
rocky mica
Immortal just means not dead... people assume that also means invincible
I mean, immortality means to be able to live forever
If you are not one piece, you cannot be living can you?
umbral agate
Being capable of living forever does not equate to being invincible.... it just means you can possibly survive forever
But could you say that's the case if you were stuck inside hardened lava unable to breathe for example? Is that life even if you are not technically dead?
rocky mica
Well okay I understand what you mean now. Yeah for me that would still be living
Being alive has no inherent value to the quality of it
just means you are not dead i guess
so even if you were imprisoned, not able to do anything at will, but you are not dead, you are alive
umbral agate
Well that's why I answered no off the get go before diving into this
Getting old is a gift
rocky mica
yeah no i fully agree with you
Personally I think that anyone that would answer the question with yes is not able to fully grasp the implications of being immortal
umbral agate
Considering nothing in the universe is immortal as well.... everything has a shelf life albeit very long ones for some cosmic bodies... as soon as you step outside of that things become very difficult
That said.... I wouldn't mind an extra couple hundred years
Heck even 50 would be nice
umbral agate
Very true
rocky mica
like living for 10^2 or 10^6 years doesnt even matter on the scale of immortality
umbral agate
Hmmm.... I'd still avoid that personally but ya I get ya
rocky mica
well immortality to me implies infinite time
And no real number comes close to the concept of infinity
so any real number you put on a life, it is all equally small in comparison to immortality
umbral agate
Ya but science does have a rough idea of how long the universe will last before going dark roughly
rocky mica
yeah but being immortal would mean you would still live at that moment
and infinitely long after
so if you 'd become immortal that would basically mean living infinitely long after heat death of the universe
so everything that happens before that is just a small speck of time
dapper fog
Again
That implies you are unkilliable
In such scenario you would die mentally long before the heat death of the universe
You become totally deranged
I suppose the best form of immortality would be one bestowed by a higher power
As number 1 it would prove there is such a being
And number 2 it would mean whatever life your living must be special to earn such a gift
The least optimal is mechanical immortality by far as you capability to feel would cease existence
And you would simply be a brain in a jar
vital nexus
for me it would depend only if i can get to find my other 1/2 and if they get to be immortal too cuse at that point whats the pont to immortality if i cant spend it with someone
dapper fog
you could be selfless
and bestow your wisdom to humanity
push them forward to new heights
vital nexus
that would be something i would do but i wana find love
dapper fog
Id do it without
dapper fog
you would be worshipped
vital nexus
nah i dont want to be worshipped
vital nexus
not if i hide it
dapper fog
which makes it a waste
dapper fog
especially if it was bestowed to you by some higher power
vital nexus
im not the guy who really belives in a higher power but if it exist well then maybe
vital nexus
sure
dapper fog
and you will now live forever
dapper fog
then once ive gotten humanity to a state where I feel their survival is garunteed id retire to a quiet life
and hopefull whatever being gave me such power would take it away
vital nexus
but the thing is i wouldnt know the secrits of the univerce easly it would take more then 100000000000000000000x my lifetime to jut learn about it
i wana see the end of everything tho
and see if it restarts
vital nexus
yea
dapper fog
it cant remember everything
dapper fog
I dont really want to forget everyone
vital nexus
i get that
quasi oasis
Yea it would be nice to not have to die
dapper fog
so once ive gotten everything where I want and humanity future is assured I would retire and die
vital nexus
i think we are allready heading towards that it just going to take a long time
once earth is depleated we will learn ouer lession becasue we runed it to begin with
dapper fog
my only fear would be ending up like the emperor of mankind from 40k
vital nexus
lol
dapper fog
being forced to live
vital nexus
but i g2g to bed goodnight everyone
vital nexus
🙂
rocky mica
That implies you are unkilliable
I mean, immortality means living forever so that implies you don't die yes.
rocky mica
for me it would depend only if i can get to find my other 1/2 and if they get to...
I dont think that if you are immortal that having someone else would really change anything
dapper fog
no not really
immortal just means you are not guaranteed to die
look at vampires for example
rocky mica
Hmm interesting that again, through language difference this is differently answered
rocky mica
in my native language, immortality (onstervelijkheid) litterally translates to ''not able to die'' (having the property of eternal life)
dapper fog
yeah
rocky mica
yeah so that implies you live forever
dapper fog
technically thats its english definition
dapper fog
but its often used outside that context to refer to one who cannot age
rocky mica
thats literally the meaning of the word
dapper fog
in english pop culture theres also sometimes the term pseudo immortal
to refer to someone who is immortal unless a speciffic circumstance happens
like vampires
but the term is often thrown around to describe a lack of aging
rocky mica
Well as a non-native speaker who does not live in an english speaking country it is pretty impossible for me to know how the word immortal is used outside of its proper definition :/
dapper fog
true
hence why I understood where you were coming from
though as the author himself said it depends of conditions implying he is including pseudo immortality
rocky mica
How I interpreted it was that there would be several scenarios of immortality, for example
- Frm the point you are immortal you do not physically age anymore
- From the point of immortality you still age
dapper fog
yeah
in any event
true immortality would mean you die eventually anyways
as you would mentally dissolve
the human mind isnt capable of processing such a life
also I was more thinking in a literal aspect
rocky mica
But in true immortality it is impossible to physically die. Your body will just perish to the point where you rather would want to be dead
dapper fog
a more practical immortality which is the end to aging
you would likely lose your ability to recognize self anyways
you would lose sense of pain as well
rocky mica
You would likely lose any cognitive abilities
dapper fog
exactly
rocky mica
Does not mean you're dead though
dapper fog
so eventually you would be dead basically anyways
no
but you basically are
you would be a vegetable
most people in comatose have no recollection of entering or leaving comatose
so you effectively die anyways
rocky mica
So you would argue they are ''basically dead'' while in a coma?
rocky mica
ooooookeeeeeee
dapper fog
you are effectively dead
rocky mica
well that is not what life/dead means
but i understand why you would interpret it that way
sorry i am kinda autistic in some ways
rocky mica
so for me its really hard to understand why you would find a different meaning in a word than the actual meaning
dapper fog
since you cannot die
eternal sleep would basically be death
you would never leave the comatose as your mind would rupture eventually
so you never wake up
and you are effectively dead
but again the slow unraveling of your mind would be hellish
though it does beg the question wether it matter since you will eventually forget you exist anyways and drift away like anyone else would
though again I interpret it in a more medical perspective
which is practical immortality
AKA the end to aging
eternal youth I think would be a blessing but tbh we know so little about it I would be willing but I suspect the human mind would eventually just break
rocky mica
I think the discussion about eternal youth vs immortality are two wholly differnt discussions. As with eternal youth there is no reason to assume you would have to live longer than average and so it is not as much pain and suffering as being an immortal being.
dapper fog
agreed
but the initial question implies he is including peudo immortality
If someone gave you the option to become immortal, would you do it? And for the people that say yes: Would that change if it was just you and nobody else ever?
Is it dependent on how that would work, in regards to aging and such?
rocky mica
Yeah i read the question but i fail to interpret it the same way you do
but i miss the cultural context
purely based on the words it does not imply anything about pseudo immortality
dapper fog
yeah I mean again the and such implies to me he means contextual immortality
like for example immortality that could be removed
if we imply immortality with respect to aging
you would decay to nothing
and therefore couldnt exist anymore
so if we go for the purest and textbook definition you cannot age either
as you would otherwise cease existing because of decay
rocky mica
I mean, immortality in itself is impossible anyways so I dont think we have to worry about the practical implication
rough kestrel
It has been done in mice already. For now the issue (in humans at least) is that it probably massively increases cancer risk.
dapper fog
Yeah
Though we are getting close to curing cancer as well
Though your u didn't hear that from me
We already have some treatments for certain strands that if they weren't only for the super rich would effectively cure those respective tyoes
Immunotherapy is working well though
Also unfortunately it wasn't an end to aging for those mice
They still died
They just didn't go through the same aging cycle
They remained physically youthful until they suddenly died
gleaming gate
which makes it a waste
why you wanna be worshipped so bad homie
dapper fog
I don't
being worshipped would suck
the lack of privacy would be suffocating
I was stating that if you were immortal you would be worshipped as a deity
humans would assume your a god
rocky mica
An end to biological aging is totally possible
Yeah but after our discussion yesterday you should know I don't consider stopping ageing as being immortal
dapper fog
but again thats not relevant to my statement
my statement was I was looking at it in a more practical application
rocky mica
seems weird to me to assume that your cultural interpretation is better than any other interpretation tho
wind sierra
Almost entirely depends on what "immortality" means? Do I get back the condition of my body in its prime, or am I stuck with a busted up joints etc. Do I deteriorate at normal human rate to the point of being trapped in a frail husk? Can I be killed by myself or others? Are we talking brain in a jar, or vampire, or what?
rough kestrel
That's a valid answer. Pick one.
I like to go off of realism. So I would assume that the most realistic version of "immortality" would be either us becoming cyborgs or stopping aging entirely. Both of them do allow for death, but not for death due to old age, which I consider immortality.
cedar vine
This is what I mean....if you're immortal you will experience it all... includin...
But you assume the worst, if i got a legs broken or my head split of my head, then on an immortal scale my legs will fixe perfectly at some point and my head will be back on my shoulder since all probably are there. Also witness all miracle of life, love, compassion and kindness, winning at lottery and losing it all just to win it back later.
You see the glass half empty and only think about the worst that can happen and not the best.
umbral agate
But you assume the worst, if i got a legs broken or my head split of my head, th...
I view it in the sense of practical science
Not a glass half empty
Alright let's say for arguments sake that it stops the process of aging... ie errors in cell reproduction
That's something I would consider.... you are still subject to death, you just don't suffer the affects you'd see through normal aging.... while technically immortal you will still die albeit on a much longer timeline given statistics
I could enjoy this so long as I found companions along my path but it ultimately falls to me to ensure my continued survival
True immortality ignores these factors and ensures nothing no matter what regardless of how you gained it you do not die
If truly immortal.... not a sudo chance at it through one's own actions.... you will suffer immensely both physically and psychologically without end
There is no end...there is no stopping it...the universe is finite and has a predictable end... and you will exist beyond it, you are immortal
This is not something I would wish for or inflict upon another being
Extended life is something I wish for...but that is not the same as true immortality....anything that falls short of true immortality is worth consideration but that means it is finite....your not immortal
The question asked is if you would wish for it... and I stand by my statement of no....even if it meant I died tomorrow vs living on
It was never about a half glass full scenario....there are consequences to be considered about every action...either about being an immortal to something as mundane as say.... do I eat too much suger
There is a form of immortality I would like to experience but you are not a true immortal
But it definitely comes with its own drawbacks
cedar vine
If truly immortal.... not a sudo chance at it through one's own actions.... you ...
Again you fall on the suffering physicly and not psychologically.
If you argument is you never die and all possibility got closer to 1 in an infinite time live (true immortality)
That means that the suffering will stop since it is a possibility and as it been said suffering 1000000 years is very small on the scale of infiny years.
So while you accept that the worst will happen to you, you refuse to accept and talk about the best that can happen to you. That is seeing the glass half empty insread of half full.
In a true immortality all possibility come to 1. So it can take millions and millions of years but eventually you will get back a your body in a good shape to lose it again. But millions and millions of years is a small time compare to infinity.
One possibility existing if we speak as true immortality is experience the end of the universe, but also the creation of an universe.
In term of possibility in the universe there is an infinity of them and therefore you could live for ever and never live the exact same situation twice.
inner breach