💣┇weapons-gadgets

[random depot]

The light Basic but strong, AKM is mid just use Fcar or p90, m60 is ok, but not with C&S

[indigo nexus]

Definitely want to take gateway for light, it’s considered highly viable and is not hard to use at any level

Charge and slam is not ‘meta’ but I don’t think it really matters for typical players

[sturdy glade]

should I swap to shield on heavy? I heard winch got mega nerfed

[random depot]

Unless you have people to gateway, its a waste of slot in solo Q

[indigo nexus]

Gatewaying yourself has a lot of value and people will follow a gateway you place in front of them

[random depot]

Either shield or trade for Lewis/Shak because of superior hip fire accuracy

[candid vessel]

That maybe i can remember numbers because i got that kind of autism?

[sturdy glade]

I kinda suck at recoil control rn thats why im on m60 😭 havent played in like 4 seasons

[indigo nexus]

Oh, I see. You can reproduce them, then?

[candid vessel]

Its still definitely good. Depends on what weapon ur using tbh

[random depot]

Also you dont do orb, do C4 or pyro mines with charge

[sturdy glade]

for light should I swap vanish or goo to teleporter?

[candid vessel]

Yeah i can guarantee that next time i pick up sword i can get a kd of 3 or more

[random depot]

Depends what you feel helps you defend yourself better

[indigo nexus]

This is simply not true because there is no guarantee you will get a match against weaker players. I was looking for if you have the capability to reproduce the specific values you have been citing or not

[random depot]

If you do youre just playing his game, hes failing to engage with the subject due to random number

Sword light is easy in unranked lobbies so I fail to see how its hard to believe

I also don't see how it matters if hes lying about the number or not

Its irrelevant

[candid vessel]

Yeah great point actually

[random depot]

Like if he said he got diamond with sword id ask for proof, but unranked? Who cares?

[indigo nexus]

It seems unlikely that a player would be able to do this in any consistent capacity without being skilled enough for this to no longer make sense, which is why I thought the claim odd

[indigo nexus]

It is the argument that was made, though?

[random depot]

Also goo can sometimes fail, vanish doesnt ever basically so eh

[empty vortex]

can we talk about the autoshotty the heavy has? i kinda like using it just started to have it but i never see people use it or even talk about it lol. do you guys recommend any tactics or specializations with it?

[random depot]

Its the top elo meta gun besides shak and Lewis

Winch SA is sadly very common

Well the Ruby teams I face anyway

[candid vessel]

Rather that than winch shak atp

[empty vortex]

wow i thought it mightve even be bad lol, so i can use it right its good enough?

[random depot]

They run me over like im leftover stir-fry from that really good Thai place

[empty vortex]

i hate the winch it looks so boring no lie

[random depot]

It is but its so strong for cashout manipulation and getting a early entry pick on someone not paying attention

[indigo nexus]

I suspect most players do not get good value out of it as you barely ever see it in casual lobbies. But it’s hard to say exactly why

[random depot]

The amount of times ive been winched into a dome man...

Then assaulted

[empty vortex]

oohhh yeah being able to move the cashout should be a good ability, yo what about if i combine it with that running specialization? or is winch better

[random depot]

3 differently sized men with blood in their eyes

[empty vortex]

lol sad days to be you

[random depot]

Id argue for charge and slam on the principle that I fucking hate the fucking motherfucking winch

[empty vortex]

fr man, i mean i dont hate playing against it i hate playing WITH it idk why it doesnt interest me

[random depot]

Goo gun calls brother

https://tenor.com/view/goo-gun-the-finals-goo-gif-11263600545026771416

(Also for @sudden pewter , I relearned the timing and its fine again lmao)

[empty vortex]

oh i normally use the goo gun all the time, i just missed charge and slam thats it

[random depot]

Oh rpg pyro barricade Lewis gun or pff dome shield instead of barricade for normals

[unkempt moss]

I have that type of memory but only for certain things.

[random depot]

https://tenor.com/view/kyle-hill-rambo-mythbusters-goo-gun-goo-gif-23565157

[indigo nexus]

I can definitely remember specific values which I care about for a long time, it’s just per-round leaderboard state would be so high in quantity with no good way to distinguish pieces of data from one another

[unkempt moss]

I think SA does best with a coordinated team to follow up on it or help it get close. When I solo with it i notice it's much harder to play in the range/ tactics it wants. There's not a lot of truly coordinated teams in ranked so that may be why its not a solid pick.

[candid vessel]

Rpg pyro nade and done shield is my go to personally

[random depot]

So true

[static fossil]

is there an offical document for weapon and gadgets stats?

[random depot]

Pyro mines you mean, heavies dont use small man gadgets

[unkempt moss]

For sure.

[random depot]

We use fat man defence 👏👏👏

[indigo nexus]

No, but the wiki has most of what you would likely want. And https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ud7Rdl3AgMw9mmfDwW2LtDMnzZQ9IIhnqSE4ivsaMTs has a bunch of data collected

[unkempt moss]

My King of Hell build uses pyro grenade. Its also the funnest grenade to use because of the impact.

[random depot]

Honestly my best advice for The Finals? Get yourself a god damn duo. Solo Q is miserable and I have gotten lucky a few times and added them instantly because by god

[random depot]

I do like pyro nade

Make it 2 for heavy god damn it

Its just so hard to justify over Lockbolt/C4/pyromines

[unkempt moss]

Long bombing a pyro on someone shooting from a rooftop is peak endorphin rush

Theyre not in my main loadout but theres times I gotta have them in there.

[static fossil]

Thanl you so much

[sudden pewter]

Nuh uh goo is dead because I can’t stun someone for 18s anymore

[random depot]

https://tenor.com/view/screaming-bird-alarm-clock-wake-up-gif-11858070275565777857

[indigo nexus]

I find pyro nade pretty nice but it’s hard to use well against good players

the type that you’re unlikely to get the drop on and likely to move particularly well

[candid vessel]

I like em with c4

[random depot]

ARN, Dash, Pyro, Gas, Gravity vortex goes hard af for area denial just doesnt cut it above gold

[unkempt moss]

I use it as a defensive grenade a lot too. Cutting space off, stalling. Sometimes it's nice to have fire on demand. It deals with a lot of stuff that's annoying as well.

[somber tiger]

Which patch were you playing on?

[sudden pewter]

Since S5?

[distant cargo]

We should have killstreaks

[unkempt moss]

I toyed with an idea for light as a passive. Where kills reduce their active cooldowns kinda like a kill streak.

Called it Snowball or something.

[distant cargo]

Why would light get this

[brave dust]

any one else notice a recent weirdness with sledge hitboxes?

[distant cargo]

They've always been weird

They're extremely inconsistent, it's annoying.

[brave dust]

been playing sledge for a while, just noticing some recent strangeeness i havent before

just ping perhaps

[unkempt moss]

Because the other classes received passives in GOUF patch at one point. I thought this would make the most boring class(light) more engaging. At the time it was also the weakest and I thought it would help increase survivability and lethality.

What if defib was part of healgun, remove sickness, and it puts the healgun in burnout when you use it?

[distant cargo]

Medium is probably most boring

I feel like the community is in agreement that Medium doesn't have an identity

Medium needs more destruction

It would help the demat be chosen less if there were other options for moving through geometry fast

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1196056960223674411/1400998710065893518/attachment.gif

[unkempt moss]

I'm not sure if thats good or bad tbh

[unkempt moss]

Maybe. I just feel like light is so straight forward that it gets boring to play unless you play meme weapons

Medium is more fun because of the movement and specs it has. I like the gadgets and weapons better as well.

[tardy light]

I only recently started playing dash so I can’t really comment but I feel like dash has room for a lot of fun and creative decisions, doesn’t feel “straight forward,” even if it is a simple ability

though, everyone’s different, and some freaks use MGL only for 1000 hours

And grapple is obviously the goat… that is so fun to me

Cloak: seemed kinda cool to get into, got old quickly for me

[distant cargo]

That seems like some L weapons just need a nerf. There is a select few that do much better than the rest and don't have creative strategies (M11)

The M11 strategy is just melting someone and running away, dash makes this worse too. Dash needs a massive nerf

[unkempt moss]

You can comment even if youre new. C4tter stole my whole flow this season playing Dagger and GooGun and now tells me I'm wrong about something i have probably 1100+ hours more than him on.

Dont ever let newness stop you from saying things. If anything i want to hear from you more being new to it since I can get an opinion from an expert at any time.

[distant cargo]

Dagger has been beyond unfun for me, idk what loadouts are good with it

Goo gun just isn't as good as winch

[unkempt moss]

GooGun outright beats winch, but sure.

[distant cargo]

Goo gun can't move the cashout

[unkempt moss]

Yes it can. I do it all the time.

[spring oasis]

You should give Demat a try

[distant cargo]

Yeah sure buddy

"Yeah bro x gadget is actually good at doing x thing you just have to go through a tedious and long process"

[unkempt moss]

GooGun can move cashout and Vault. GooScoot is how I beat gateway plays.

[distant cargo]

Anti gravity cube does that better

And you can have the winch with it which allows you to transport it massive distances fast

[unkempt moss]

Crazy how this guy and c4tter challenge me on my GooGun knowledge. Unreal ego

[distant cargo]

Here's a guide for heavy weapons and gadgets:

Does it mesh well with the Anti-Gravity Cube? If yes then it is S tier. If no then it is F tier.

[unkempt moss]

GooGun can very easily move cashout, and is also made better by antigrav. GooSlide

[distant cargo]

Adding Goo as a prefix to a verb doesn't make it a good strategy

[unkempt moss]

That's just the name of it. Antigrav the cashout up, create a slide/ramp downwards and it will fall down it.

[tardy light]

i agree with you that winch > goo but goo can totally easily move cash dude

[distant cargo]

Winch does it better

[tardy light]

its not like you need to send it 20 meters, just nudge it off a ledge. takes like half a mag of blobs usually

[unkempt moss]

Winch doesnt have the utility of GooGun though.

[tardy light]

Sure but you didnt say that you said "Goo gun can't move the cashout"

[distant cargo]

Try peyote and come back with the wisdom it gives you

[tardy light]

indeed, it does not. i dont think most people think it does. but i think, as most probably do too, that the combat ability you get from winch outshines the utility of goo in many circumstances

even when goo IS superior to winch/mesh/charge (it often is), since its so dependent on preparation and location, its just hard to make full use of. meanwhile, winch is very easy to extract 100% of power from. just press the winch button at the enemy

[distant cargo]

Winch is also the only viable specialization for sledgehammer

[tardy light]

depends how you construe viable, i definitely think its best, especially after goo nerf

[distant cargo]

The sledge definitely needs the ability to pull people in

[unkempt moss]

I have to disagree on needing set up to be effective. A lot of tech does but its a very active spec as well.

[tardy light]

when i say setup i mean you cant really use it in combat, unless youre stalling or escaping

at least my experience. if i end up in a surprise engagement with an enemy i just shooty them. i dont pull out my goo gun. unless im going for a cheesy goolock or try to goo off a door and escape. but if i have winch or mesh or charge thats an actual option i consider to win the fight

[unkempt moss]

My days of converting people too googun are long past. If this is what you believe then that's what is true

[tardy light]

i dont think thats a bad thing... like i think goo gun is totally viable. its just a big brain option that is harder to make work

[tardy light]

i mean, you owe me nothing, but i would be pleasantly surprised to see goo being used in a way to win an engagement against a competent player who has already started attempting to murder u

[unkempt moss]

You gotta learn the art of Gueling.

[tardy light]

Where can I?

[unkempt moss]

Its different depending on what you're using and what you're against.

Just takes time on the sticks if you don't have someone to teach you.

I used to say it all the time but GooGun is your primary weapon once you ascend.

[tardy light]

you and your fighting game slang

[unkempt moss]

You have to look at it as your primary or you will always play it like a spec.

[tardy light]

fwiw, i have hit diamond using exclusively goo in s9 and s10, i dont think that makes me a good player, but i also think and hope i am not missing something obvious

[tardy light]

maybe playing some goo melee would force me to learn to think that way

[unkempt moss]

Definitely doesn't make you a bad player

When you feel naked and get frustrated at the chokehold the weaker specs put on you, that's when you know the gate is open.

It is the strongest spec in the game and it's not even a little close

[distant cargo]

This is coping

[tardy light]

i had a similar conversation with bowkun about bow... he thinks bow is actually "meta" but people dont have time to efficiently practice it when they could just get better aim with a gun much faster.

is that how you feel about goo? otherwise, how do you explain the majority of skilled players not using goo? coincidental mass ignorance?

i like to believe in the invisible hand of the free meta.. what good players use is what is good. i know its a bit sheepish, but you must admit it is generally pretty accurate

[unkempt moss]

Probably. I dont have an answer for that unfortunately. Maybe that the immediate value of the other specs is more efficient for a proplayer. You'd have to not only learn GooGun but then

learn it at their level.

[tardy light]

I do appreciate that there are different metas at different skill levels

i remember i was fighting my friend in smash and apparently his character hard countered my character but i kept beating him, not cause im better, but cause my character was easier to play and we both sucked lmao

[unkempt moss]

Ive been to ruby with it every season except 9 and 10 because I got burnout

[tardy light]

Aww man you really shouldve stuck it out for 9. for the ruby goo gun

But i guess you had an infant then. good priorities o7

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. If S12 really changes the game like they're saying I will have my Ruby GooGun.

I lied. I didn't get ruby in the season where they switched to the R6 mode.

[tardy light]

haha

[unkempt moss]

They couldn't have paid me to grind that out.

[distant cargo]

I think you can say this about any weapon.

Any weapon is good if you consistently get headshots or whatever equivalent for melee

"Yeah bro this weapon is good just play perfectly with it"

[tardy light]

No, the argument was to bow's stats. even if two people are perfectly good with their respective weapons.. one of the weapons can suck

bow is actually good cause it has good range, good peek, can one shot lights, etc. stuff like that. its just hard to use

[unkempt moss]

But all the tech and knowledge I have for it is why I wasn't too bothered by them changing the lock length. As long as it's still there it doesn't change much for me.

[distant cargo]

You could say the same about sniper

[unkempt moss]

You could. Ive played with far more good bow users than I have snipers though.

[distant cargo]

Bow is more fun

[unkempt moss]

But I also dont judge people off of them getting kills. Thats the least important thing in the game to me.

[tardy light]

yes, you could

but maybe not dagger. see what i mean

[unkempt moss]

Support Dagger is goated though.

[tardy light]

i am not sure what support dagger means but idk if im prepared to have this debate anyways

[unkempt moss]

Support Dagger is probably different for everyone. For me I run Cloak/Dagger, H+, Sonar, and Null. And i just focus on keeping my team alive, crushing flanks, and not overextending. When I do push out its to use the chaos of whats going on to try and get a high value pick.

Basically just backline dagger. My job isnt to get kills, its to help my two teammates go nuclear.

[lone charm]

goo gun can probably beat goku ngl

...unless goku has charge n slam

[tardy light]

Im pretty sure the first rule of powerscaling is that no one beats goku

[lone charm]

goo gun can break the rules

thats how powerful it is

it destroys the concept of rules with its sheer strength

[unkempt moss]

Sorry I probably get carried away but thats how I feel about it.

The depth of GooGun is why I always want to add and expand options on the stuff we already have.

It reminds me of the time when Embark had something truly special they were cooking and not just more esports slop.

[tardy light]

tgm was cool but seeing mostly everyone bring the same loadout kinda sad

[unkempt moss]

What did you see the most?

[distant cargo]

Like increased minigun build damage

Playing against minigun is extremely easy

All you do is flank the minigun user and headshot them

And that is easy considering how difficult it is to maneuver with it

[somber tiger]

I find the "minimize risk" slogan pretty ironic on the Alfa Acta flamethrower

[unkempt moss]

For Mini I'd like them to sort out the clunkiness of slide and spin up transitions if its still there.

[tardy light]

from memory, probably shak winch lol

[unkempt moss]

Checks out

[distant cargo]

Its pretty bad still

[unkempt moss]

Speed Freeks is goated. Youre welcome.

[near scroll]

nothing ever happens at embarf™

[unkempt moss]

You talking about the update?

[lone charm]

why yall mfs gotta hate so much

just enjoy things ffs

i dont got time in my schedule to be a hater

[near scroll]

im just expressing my overall dissatisfaction with the last like 2 seasons

[near scroll]

i enjoy other games now, but i wish i could still enjoy the finals too

[unkempt moss]

I am enjoying things though. Theyre just not the finals right now. Hoping S12 brings me back!

[lone charm]

skipping right past s11 lmao

[unkempt moss]

S12 is the 2.0 season i was told.

[lone charm]

oh really?

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. Theyre doing a soft relaunch in S12 or something.

[lone charm]

tell me more tell me more

[unkempt moss]

I dont know. Thats just what I was told from people here.

[lone charm]

oh 😔

[unkempt moss]

S11 is supposed to be melee rework. S12 is 2.0.

Catter is the one that told me. So ask him.

I dont think there has been any solid details released about it.

[near scroll]

i have high hopes for the melee rework! sike

[unkempt moss]

They could cook.

[near scroll]

i mean yeah it's a possibility but embark's recent track record does not inspire confidence in me at all

sorry, embarf™

[unkempt moss]

Same. But, thats why its always important to have ol' faithful when an unproven company makes a game you like.

Some how Embark made the biggest game of the '20s and blew it spectacularly.

[near scroll]

they did make a game i liked and i did have faith but not anymore

that's my entire problem, they used up all the goodwill i had to give them

and turned the game i liked into something i don't really care for anymore

[unkempt moss]

Do you play anything else?

[near scroll]

yeah obviously lol, i barely play the finals anymore

i put 500 hours in deadlock since i "quit" the finals, and am playing other games on the side

[unkempt moss]

Good for you. The discord is slowly turning in to AA for the finals. I'm just here to shit post and theory craft but its getting tiresome. Theres no creative blood flowing in wepsNgadg anymore.

I assume thats because people have given up hope

[near scroll]

i can post again what i already posted like 10 times if u want lmao

thanks for the "good for you" btw :)

[unkempt moss]

It's all good. One of the terminators will probably just come in and say it doesnt fit the game or x cant have y because z.

[near scroll]

lol

ngl more than half my ideas are rework ideas xd

[unkempt moss]

So really all thats left is to shit on the game and complain.

I wrote my own 2.0 a while back. I was going through and updating it and I just couldn't force myself to care enough about it.

[near scroll]

i mean makes sense if you ask me, there's been less and less changes and even fewer of them inspired by community suggestions

when they did that stream with oscar and the game designer whose name i forgot, and they described the shotgun vs sniper combat loop then said they didnt know what melee vs sniper should look like is when i lost most of my remaining hopium reserves haha

[unkempt moss]

I do really hope 2.0 is something worth getting excited about. Finals is the only shooter that really scratched the itch for a while.

[near scroll]

deadlooooooooooooock

[unkempt moss]

I played deadlock a lot months ago. I should try it out again after all the updates.

[near scroll]

did street brawl exist when u played? it's a one lane 4v4 item gambling mode

[unkempt moss]

No. Its probably been close to a year.

[near scroll]

quite nice to just engage with the cool combat mechanics without dedicating 30+ mins to a normal moba match

they also added 12 heroes which are all fairly cool (even if maybe too strong lol)

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. It sounds like a good time to get back.

Good looking out.

[near scroll]

it is indeed! and no worries man, thanks for being nice too

but yeah, like there's so many things embark coudlve done

but no, here's ur generic hitscan auto gun for the 7th season in a row

like wtf do you mean we get a medieval season with only one weapon and it's a modern mag fed semi auto crossbow that turns out to not even be projectile man

this is the kinda disappointment i'm talking about that made me not trust embark

what about something like a hand crossbow and dagger for light with no ads but a dagger stab on m2 or smth

just like, anything creative and fun please

[stoic garden]

give us horizontal barricade placement embark

[karmic night]

For what porpoise

[hot kraken]

Directional blockage from above but limited as a wall attachment

Also bounce pads on them would go hard

[karmic night]

Ohhh I thought he meant like flipping the barricade on its own axis lol

[near scroll]

embarf™

[vocal stone]

Embed

[vocal stone]

Little barricade tent ⛺

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-smothering-cat-what-the-meow-gif-15738440031899127468

embarf™

[vocal stone]

Damn, didn't even take me to dinner

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cam-cat-camera-cat-wide-cat-wide-gif-16729570673879006163

ima eat your ass

lovingly

[stoic garden]

i'm making a habit of noting important information about people i meet here

[near scroll]

are you interested?

[languid tusk]

Yall is it just me or is the backstab hit-box broken for the dagger.

[near scroll]

why do you say that

[languid tusk]

I’ve been playing dagger for like a week and like 60% of the time I’ll go to hit a backstab that is visibly clean then it either counts as a normal heavy strike or it just doesn’t connect.

[stoic garden]

maybe later, modding my rimworld rn

[near scroll]

oh yeah dagger feels super inconsistent as the user bc servers are ass

just play sword, or better yet, play a better game

[languid tusk]

Absolutely right I’m gonna go play Chinese PvZ

[near scroll]

bruh

[near scroll]

hot

[stoic garden]

fire choice tbh

[languid tusk]

Thank you my good man

[near scroll]

is it actually a good game?

[stoic garden]

chinese pvz or rimworld

[languid tusk]

It’s PvZ with a bunch of random junk

[near scroll]

chinese pvz, i know rimworld is a good game

[languid tusk]

I wouldn’t say it’s better than the original but it’s close

[near scroll]

ah, i see.

anyways, if y'all want a good objective focused, team based shooter y'all should play deadlock

i haven't obsessed over a multiplayer pvp game that hard since the finals ngl

[languid tusk]

I tried it but I’m not a fan of shooters like that. It’s a good game tho just not my cup of tea

[stoic garden]

i already play deadlock dw

very very sparingly tho lol

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/emoji-in-distress-emoji-sad-emoji-disappearing-emoji-disintegrating-seokvrse-gif-25237004

[languid tusk]

I think if you haven’t at least tried deadlock you are living under a rock bc valve hasn’t released anything new in a while.

[near scroll]

im kidding, totally justified you guys do what you will with your lives

[near scroll]

i mean, it didnt get advertised that hard and you gotta have a steam friend invite you

also personally i didn't instantly hop on cause i still had moba ptsd from league of legends xd

[languid tusk]

I know but if you are a steam user you’re gonna see people talking abt it. They didn’t even need advertising.

[near scroll]

fair enough

but yea the movement in that game is so pristine

[stoic garden]

my first 6 hours were on that 40 fps laptop on fire gameplay, then i found an optimization mod and im pretty fine without having to downscale res as much as finals

[languid tusk]

Oh it’s immaculate

[stoic garden]

lowkey finals optimization is getting so shit that i dont even wanna play it rn

[languid tusk]

Bro I’m just tryna grind out world tour and the battle pass then hop of until next season.

[stoic garden]

i think i have everything i want from this bp

[languid tusk]

The only thing I actually wanted was ten riot shield and the Alfa Acta helmet thing.

[languid tusk]

“ten riot shield” my fat fingers bro

[last steeple]

One for each finger ?

[near scroll]

that is also a very fair reason to drop the game lol

i still can't believe how hard they fumbled the "medieval" season tho, esp when the community was asking for it since like s3

[languid tusk]

They better actually lock in and fix the game. Or at least have a good rework

[near scroll]

i mean i hope they will but i'm out of goodwill to give them

[stoic garden]

waiting for hoverpad to be useful outside of countering melee

[near scroll]

why yes let's nerf this utterly overpowered gadget that is the freakin hoverpad like bruh

[languid tusk]

Bro it’s that one meme of the fat guy(arc) taking all the water and the skinny guy getting only drops (the finals)

[near scroll]

also the whole stream where they discussed gameplay loops, just, wow

[stoic garden]

i really dont give a fuck about the medieval theme and knew i wasnt gonna like it, but i at least hoped it came with cool balance changes or optimization, or even decent new gear

[near scroll]

i mean im ngl being an arc fan doesn't really sound that much better lmao, feels like that game been stagnating a while, and theres just a lot of odd choices in that game imo
(why do all the blue rarity guns shoot medium ammo like wtf)

[stoic garden]

nah, we adding medium's hitscan v9s and a long range steal stopper

i like shockwave but i cant see it as healthy for the game

[near scroll]

you have to admit that dropping the medieval map for point break only, and dropping a crossbow that actually turns out to be a modern magazine fed semi auto one, that DOENST EVEN FIRE PROJECTILES is stupid af

[stoic garden]

i dont really like the map so it's whatever but chimera is goofy

[near scroll]

me neither but still it's utterly dumb to make the medieval map that people have been wanting for ages point break only

[stoic garden]

it's not even that bad i just dont like them leaning so much into medieval for no particular lore reason unlike s3

the cns bit was actually kinda cool but they basically stopped all big/interesting lore drops after like s4

s2 is still probably the best season this game had

[last steeple]

Hey there is lore reasons, we js don't know that much yet and it will probably take some time to discover who's the hand

[stoic garden]

where is it said? kinda curious

[near scroll]

i think it being so open doesnt feel great, but having an area per set of vaults is cool for PB

[last steeple]

Idk in the main trailer we see a hand flipping the arena and bringing a medieval theme, and ik there's some lore in BP cosmetics

I've seen some theories and arguments about it

[stoic garden]

at this point i dont even blame maps anymore, i just think long range weapons should get a nerf lol

[last steeple]

Which does mean there's things to argue about, not a lot tho

[stoic garden]

i guess bro

[last steeple]

Overall I enjoy the medieval theme, cool cosmetics, cool weapon (far from what would have been ideal but nice anyways), cool spec (steal stopping isn't it's primarily use and it saved medium) and cool map for a mid gamemode

[near scroll]

i do dislike how barren most maps are, cover really is a luxury sometimes

and tbh i wonder if that doesnt reinforce the "rooftop meta"

[stoic garden]

i dont see how shockwave saved medium more than demat did? shockwave is cool, i just find the fact that getting nudged a lil stops your steals to be frustrating

[near scroll]

"cool weapon" and its just a powercrept pike 😭

[last steeple]

I mean shockwave offered a whole new playstyle to medium (ofc delay should have been buffed to make it's options wider but at least we have shockwave) shockwave is sm fun, it's creative too

[last steeple]

If they tune it and buff mine everything will be fine 👍

They doesn't have the same niche imo especially since range nerf

Js look at the hipfire

[near scroll]

even then, semi auto high mag size hitscan dmr thingy isnt cool or unique

the finals has the opportunity to take any weapon concept and game-ify it into a cool unique playstyle, and yet we get autos and semi autos with different stat sheets and thats supposed to be hype

what about smth like a hand crossbow and dagger dual wield, crossbow is m1 dagger is m2

just like, cool unique shit pleaaaase i beg

how do we not have a laser gun in the VR gameshow game like

i could go on

[last steeple]

Cool doesn't mean unique.
While you're right, a unique weapon is cooler than a "basic" one, xbow is still cool, the model and the animations are great, the sounds too (ik it's not part of the gameplay but it's important too), gameplay wise now, the thing has some differences with other weapons, medium doesn't have a lot of click tracking weapons, with a great close range accuracy since it has a nice hipfire and almost no recoil, the thing hits pretty hard, but isn't that reliable long range and has a long reload time
I DO AGREE THEY COULD HAVE DONE WAY BETTER
But xbow is cool anyways

[near scroll]

i agree cool doesnt mean unique but when its so not unique its harder for it to be cool yknow

they could add a rare AR that has very cool IRL history and details that are well represented in game but if its just a reskinned FCAR, in the context of the game its gonna be lame af

[last steeple]

Yeah yeah true but it's not like there's weapons like ts in every other fps bruh

Even gameplay wise

[near scroll]

a high capacity single shot fast firing weapon? lol

[last steeple]

That shi is different than most of medium's weapons, pike just suffers the comparison

[muted condor]

We need a boomerang

[last steeple]

Why is it so true

[near scroll]

ig its different from medium's other options but from what i gather its just a worse v9s in semi auto mag fed crossbow form innit

[muted condor]

Cool, fun, and unique

[last steeple]

Ehh v9s doesn't have the reload time penalty, has a worse hipfire, better fire rate but single shots doesn't hit as much as crossbow's one, even the gameplay are differents

Ofc there's some similarities too but they don't play the same, and em being on different classes makes the difference bigger

I understand that you don't like it tho but overall it's alright

[near scroll]

i don't like that you're fine settling with the current quality of content that embarf™ releases (which i find to be subpar)

[last steeple]

If we didn't have anything else I would be disappointed

[near scroll]

you have other games to play tho lol

[last steeple]

But we do have other additions I liked and I may have too much hope in melee rework

[last steeple]

Yeah yeah I was just talking about new additions in tf

[near scroll]

i mean i'm exaggerating a lil but i think you understand why i'm dissatisfied with embark, just a lack of ambition and innovation, as well as some questionable decisions

[near scroll]

tf?

[last steeple]

The finals

[near scroll]

oh, i misread that lol

[last steeple]

Yeah you're right not everything's pink and like some things are weird

[last steeple]

TITANFALL 2

[near scroll]

ngl how the melee rework goes will dictate whether i'll even care enough to check patchnotes and shit for the year to come

[near scroll]

basically my gripe with embark is that it seems they come up with quite fresh unique game concepts but fumble once they're released

[last steeple]

Understandable 💀 I like following meta anyways but sometimes balancing decisions are weird

[near scroll]

the concept of the finals and arc were very fresh and unique upon release, but over time especially for the finals they've compromised on so many decisions and diluted the game's identity to the point where it's just kinda meh now

[last steeple]

Ehhh idk, I don't think I would enjoy other fps as much as I do enjoy the finals currently, core gameplay and mechanics are still there (chaos movement and destruction), there's still a huge variety of gameplay (caus you can create your char ykyk), and game's artistic direction is still coooool

[near scroll]

i mean if i stumble upon a vid talking about the finals it's not like i'm gonna not watch it haha but ykwim, i'm growing less and less interested with this game due to mostly their lack of ambition (which i understand is partially reasonable considering the success of the game) but if you have enough resources to create starlight hollow, the chimera and shockwave, you know...

[last steeple]

Some playstyles and weapons got nerfed a lot for no reason

[near scroll]

"(caus you can create your char ykyk)"
that's one of the point that pisses me off the most, they don't consider pick rates enough.
i understand that dash is fine and shouldnt be nerfed or w.e the common concensus is nowadays, HOWEVER, it having a 75%+ pick rate for the entire lifespan of the game is unhealthy
ESPECIALLY IN A HERO BUILDER

especially when there's only 3 options available 😭

[last steeple]

Yeah they fail to constantly innovate over time, I understand it's hard but in a game like the finals there's so many possibilities, that is why I'm hyped by melee rework, making melee more viable in an FPS game is GOATED

[last steeple]

THEY SHOULD DEFINITELY BUFF THE OTHER SPECS

As well as buffing demat, nerfing winch and same for a lot of gadgets or weapons (like pike lol even though before the nerf it was way too good)

[near scroll]

then why did they constantly nerf melee over the game's lifespan? 🙃

[near scroll]

winch has been dictating what heavy guns and gadgets are allowed to be good ever since it released yet they haven't even tried to rework it, just number tweaks

[last steeple]

Shockwave is a buff 🤓 as much as it is a nerf for non medium melee weapons 😭
Idk man this is sad tbf

[near scroll]

tbh i appreciate that you're this enthusiastic about this game and hopefully you manage to stay that enthusiastic, i doon't wanna ruin the game for you

i'm just trying to make you see how embark doesn't have a flawless track record and can/should be criticized for some of their decisions

i wish the game was more fun is ultimately my point

idk man

[last steeple]

Xdd don't worry, we'll see in the future but I like the gameplay anyways and it still feels pretty unique, Of course I wish they'd innovate more, and I wish they'd address some balancing problems that are here since so much time, but idk I still find ways to enjoy the game

I recently got back to tks, these are so coool (and ye I'm playing dashes I wonder why)

[near scroll]

well yeah the core game mode is still quite unique and that's a plus for the finals, i just wish they tried to make loadout diversity a bit better

and also tried to apply that mentality of "diversity first" in their future weapon designs

i'd rather not get smth like shak but better stats on medium next season yknow

thanks for the talk though, i've been fairly negative so i'd understand why that'd turn people away from discussing these topics with me :)

[last steeple]

Appreciate it man, I also wish they'd prioritise diversity in their hero builder xdd

[near scroll]

also ngl, if they wanna still do stuff like xbow being basically a v9s but slightly different for medium, i wish they dropped those weapons with a similar design but different stats to fit each class in bulk

idk how many gun archetypes are left but yknow, what if they released revolver + bfr + a light revolver at the same time

at least then, the guns being similar wouldn't feel as bad cause you discover them at the same time and can go compare the stats

idk maybe this isn't a good idea tbh

[last steeple]

Yeah I get you

I also js thought that, if I'm speaking of the finals like this, it's because I think Devs are allowed to make mistakes, sometimes they reproduce em and it's weird, but sometimes they learn and it's nice

[near scroll]

could also fit the whole sponsor situation, like maybe your cowboy firearms specialist company sponsored this season so we get a single action revolver, a lever action rifle and smth else idk

[near scroll]

i wouldn't mind embark's mistakes as much if they did more frequent patches and actually used community feedback to inform those changes (or at least adressed the community's feedback in the dev notes)
also ngl it is disappointing to me when they repeat mistakes, or didn't learn from a previous problem (like how half the community hated playing against poke meta and then they released launch bfr 😭)

[last steeple]

😭 😭 there's many tragic cases (the several melee nerfs are the ultimate example)BUT considering they might have designed bfr before they hear about most of the complaints, and considering they need to please a vast variety of players (from new to experienced players, and we know that the skill gap between two diff players can be huge), I think it's not as bad as people often say, I often see people talking bad about embark for tiny reasons and I'm like "bruh okay they did huge mistakes that need to be corrected, but it doesn't mean that every mistakes they made are as terrible", but maybe I js don't know gamedev so maybe it's not that hard to update more frequently and to listen to people to balance their game

I mean they also listened to people but they need to listen to THE RIGHT PEOPLE

I know it's their work, so even though taking the right decisions looks hard to me, maybe I'm just delusional

[sudden pewter]

Embark doesn’t seem to have design documents. Otherwise many stupid decisions would have never left the design room.

[muted condor]

People don’t hate on Embark for making small mistakes they constantly hate on all their small mistakes because they keep lying to us and repeatedly making the same mistakes or refusing to make changes that are actually needed and just fill half a update with adjusting every weapons ready speed by 0.2 seconds

[sudden pewter]

Yeah guys, let’s give our frontline brawler what is essentially a pocket sniper with brawling capabilities.

Sure, let’s give each weight options for healing. But, hear me out, let’s give Light a support gadget that overshadows Mediums dedicated healing specialization.

Okay guys, we only want Light to thrive in extremes, for this reason we’re nerfing the Pike. Anyway, here’s a new weapon called the Repeater. It’s basically a better Pike. Okay guys, we’ve nerfed the Repeater because it was ruling the game, here’s the Chimera (pikes twice removed cousin)

[grave spire]

Nerf cl

[primal lark]

Nerf or nothing 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️

[compact tundra]

The restaurant is finished, it took a few days to get it where I want it since I'm freehanding everything here and keeping up with the quality of the tutorial is pretty difficult, but I think I managed it well. So since I raised the seating area up to match the windows I decided to put the kitchen under the seating area, then I added a basement with a storage room with live fish, a freezer/butcher cellar, and a coal room. I think the decorations could be a bit better probably but over all I'm happy with it and it's probably as good as I'm gonna get it for now. Once I start the decorating part of the castle tutorial I'll probably get some better ideas and add them but until then I like the finished results. I also found a calico kitty in a nearby abandoned village so I made her the kitchen's cat and gave her her own space in the hallway, her name is Loaf.

[unkempt moss]

Looking good.

Got me inspired to start building again.

[compact tundra]

Hell yea, recently the finals has been a bit dull on me, I still play the game and have fun but the current state of everything and embarks shenanigans have kinda worn their welcome on me so I've switched back to working on my castle for a bit as a break. I hope I finish it this go around but more than likely I won't before I get distracted by something else. But I wanna finish the castle and cathedral and then start working on the village again since that's gonna take so much time

[unkempt moss]

I'm working on building a new army for my tabletop stuff. Gotta assemble and paint them.

[compact tundra]

What do you play? I don't know much about war games but I've seen some Warhammer and this diesel punk WWI style virtual table top game

[unkempt moss]

Star Wars: Legion.

I only recently found a Warhammer faction i like so I may get in to that once I get better at painting.

[compact tundra]

That's cool, I've never been a big Star wars fan and have only seen the original trilogy IV-V-VI. Star wars has a lot of cool battle tech in those movies so I imagine it'd be pretty cool

[unkempt moss]

I love Star Wars, and Legion is more beginner friendly while being less cost prohibitive. So it was kind of an easy choice.

This will be my third army in legion.

Are you running a server for your castle?

[random depot]

Winch is also for spineless cowards with no creativity, skill or talent.

But hey use the winch, be one of the mindless. You'd still lose to GooGun :)

[sudden pewter]

I love Orkz but I mainly paint/play KillTeam.

[unkempt moss]

Im Orks pilled as well. I thought it would be Space Marines

What are you using for that stone texture

[muted condor]

What faction?

[unkempt moss]

Orks.

[compact tundra]

That's fair, finding a game that's cost accessible and that you have people you can play with is probably the most important part

[compact tundra]

Na is just a private project. Might make it a server one day but idk what I'd do with it besides like Minecraft D&D

[muted condor]

Crump’in good time

[unkempt moss]

For sure. They run a weekly league for legion here

[unkempt moss]

I just bought Speed Freeks the battle racer. And its very fun

[muted condor]

I need to finish painting my army and start playing again

[unkempt moss]

Its just Orks orking

[muted condor]

Super easy horde army to paint as well

[unkempt moss]

Green and brown basically.

Unfortunately legion doesn't teach a lot of painting skill. Empire and Republic are just fellas in white armor.

[muted condor]

I need to learn how to use my airbrush to actually paint my army at a reasonable pace and quality

[unkempt moss]

How much did you spend on an airbrush

[muted condor]

Large smooth surfaces are not forgiving to brushes

[unkempt moss]

No not at all. That's why I'm scared to touch vehicles

[muted condor]

I got it for free from a dead friend :D

[unkempt moss]

Oh. Welp.

I've seen people do well with a mix of over brushing and dry brushing. So I may try that

[muted condor]

Good friends continue encouraging your financially bad hobbies even when they are gone

[unkempt moss]

I get discouraged because I see how much talent people have and I'm just not a painter.

My creativity lives in other areas.

[muted condor]

I have a bunch of large vehicles and a kroot front line so I have to deal with both horde and elite painting

[unkempt moss]

Do you know anything about this other 40k game. I think its Legion Imperialis. It's an 8mm like mainly armor game

[muted condor]

Iv seen it but never looked into it

[distant cargo]

I don't think the goo gun has ever caused me to lose anything ever in my life

[unkempt moss]

They killed SW Armada so I want to get in to that scale of game

[sudden pewter]

There is no texture, the bases are unfinished. That’s just residual primer

Eventually I’d like my Orks to be set in Armageddon, but I’m still figuring out how to get the sand the way I want, I’m also a detailer so I need props and grasses for the bases as well.

I have a 3D printer I intend to use for recasting and reprinting some Ork Bitz from the upcoming model releases.

I also intend to do some green stuff sculpting

This was my first base and I left too much paint on the dry brush

[grave spire]

Guys is the melee rework confirmed

[sudden pewter]

Yes, it’s coming. Currently slated for S11, but it may be delayed to S12 due to a general lack of direction. Nothing concrete atm, assume S11.

[grave spire]

Alright

[unkempt moss]

The 2.0 isn't on here?

[unkempt moss]

I don't know if I want to spend the money and time to do bases for all my stuff.

[sudden pewter]

Having proper bases allows you to integrate units into a force, when they are all set on similar bases they really come together.

You don’t need to make fully custom ones like me, you can purchase base toppers that are pre-made and just paint

You can also just be basic, sand, snow, or dirt. I’m just extra

[sudden pewter]

S12 is the soft relaunch of the game. More details coming as we get closer

Bases let you tell stories without having to altar the models themselves. While my Orks are set on Armageddon my Tyranids are in a Hive City.

(These are not mine, they’re base toppers)

[unkempt moss]

It doesnt bother you when the terrain conflicts with the bases?

[candid vessel]

Just noticed that s11 is getting a new PB and TDM map. Why?

[sudden pewter]

Additional, not new. Read the wording carefully.

Chances are we’re getting preexisting maps retrofitted for the gamemode(s).

[slow linden]

What'd I miss

[unkempt moss]

Store update

[indigo nexus]

General lack of direction meaning “2 weeks into S10 they hadn’t set anything in stone yet”

[candid vessel]

I swear all the maps are already in tdm tho

Like they aren’t all in pb i think (although tbf i have no idea because i never play that mid ass gamemode) but im certain they’re all in tdm

[unkempt moss]

Maybe adding new variations to existing TDM maps?

Like cutting out more sections.

[candid vessel]

I mean maybe but i swear they already use the whole map for tdm

[trim hound]

When’s thermal vision being fixed?

[candid vessel]

Never

[trim hound]

😭

[unkempt moss]

I wish they fixed defib how they fixed thermals

[sudden pewter]

Thermal Vision is being reworked, not fixed. What was thermal vision is essentially removed from the game permanently and it will only share a name(if that) with whatever takes its place.

[unkempt moss]

Thermal recon senses.

[sudden pewter]

I’m hoping it indicates they’re making a return to map variations. Sandstorm Las Vegas or something similar.

[unkempt moss]

I wish they'd add a map or variation every season.

[sudden pewter]

I agree, it would be nice.

[unkempt moss]

Tack on a couple extra weeks to each season if need be.

[sudden pewter]

I hope in S12 they address PB issues, be it with changes to the gamemode itself or the addition of arsenal options that fill gaps where needed.

[candid vessel]

Im so annoyed that only the original maps have variations

[sudden pewter]

I almost exclusively play PB & TDM at this point.

[candid vessel]

Well unique ones anyway

[unkempt moss]

What gaps need filled in pb

[candid vessel]

Genuinely how do people play pb. You spend 95% of ur time not playing the game

[unkempt moss]

I'm not even sure what that means.

[candid vessel]

All you do is statue camp or wait to be revived

[sudden pewter]

Defenders gain an almost insurmountable advantage by destroying any form of cover from a grand vault. The offerings to create cover are too small or impermanent to effectively hold off 8 players.

[candid vessel]

Its so boring

[sudden pewter]

I wouldn’t hesitate to say +70% of my PB losses come from Defenders simply destroying all structures surrounding an objective so make it almost impossible to arm for attackers. It’s the main reason I advocate for Medium to receive some specialization that rebuilds destroyed structures.

MGL is particularly strong in PB because defenders can shoot infinitely from the safety of their spawn, dealing damage and demolishing buildings without the need of LoS.

I have a clip I need to edit where the match lasted almost a full 20(?) minutes because defenders cleared the area around the last vault and we managed to clutch it because I winched the objective closer to some rubble leftover from a building.

While rubble is generally a nuisance in other gamemodes it provides vital cover in PointBreak.

These are things that should have been obvious issues Embark would be aware of had they playtested PointBreak, which they seemingly did not.

[unkempt moss]

What if they added a button to point break that did like a dome shield around the vault that was large enough for fighting but only lasted like 10 seconds

Then it would just be unique ro the game mode and not require new gadgets.

[sudden pewter]

Not sure I like that as it completely prevents long range support

[unkempt moss]

Wouldn't the meta become to spam rebuild tool and the MGL just continues to fire from range for free?

[sudden pewter]

I also don’t like the idea of gamemode specific balancing

[unkempt moss]

It would be just the game mode, nothing would need to be balanced for it.

And wouldn't a gadget mainly targeting PB be more of a problem than just game mode specific balancing?

Then youre eating an entire new addition to the game that could be spent on something universally usable for something that could be fixed with adding the new mechanic.

[pallid stirrup]

i disagree

[sudden pewter]

Your days are numbered.

[sudden pewter]

It shouldn’t be applicable exclusively to PointBreak, but have broader use. I see your point though, a gadget may be better as beyond PB Demolition isn’t as large of an issue unless there’s an enthusiastic sledge Heavy.

[scarlet ivy]

Me and my friends all stopped playing point break… if we have more than 3 of us on at a time we just rotate taking turns playing cashout.

[sudden pewter]

Okay?

Is there a particular reason you dislike the mode?

[scarlet ivy]

If I wanted to play bf I’d just play bf

[sudden pewter]

I’d berate you verbally but I had the exact same sentiment with Terminal Attack and the comparison to R6.

That being said, PointBreak is significantly more in-line with The Finals. It’s just larger in scale.

[unkempt moss]

Terminal attack doesnt fit the loop of Finals where as point break is perfectly on brand.

[scarlet ivy]

They should just have cashout and quickcash. Everything else just diluting player base

[sudden pewter]

Terminal Attack strayed too far from The Finals. Limited Gadgets, no health regen. There’s still an objective, weights, and guns. But it was too far removed from Cashout even if the mechanics were all there.

[indigo nexus]

Can you elaborate on this stance?

[indigo nexus]

Disagreed, even though it'd make the matchmaking better. Too much variety would be lost. If anything must go I'd make the case for unranked cashout, followed by quick cash (or maybe TDM).

[scarlet ivy]

My friend group only plays powershift at the very end of the season to finish unlocks and I know a lot of people like this

[sudden pewter]

SR84 ruins Powershift for me. I refuse to touch it.

[scarlet ivy]

And does anyone actually play tdm?

[sudden pewter]

The gamemode can be fun though, it isn’t as awful as Terminal Attack was.

[scarlet ivy]

Head to head was the only one that made sense to me and they removed it lol

[sudden pewter]

I almost exclusively play TDM and PointBreak.

[indigo nexus]

I don't really see the point in TDM since point break exists. I expect embark would cull it if it wasn't played much though, like they did for H2H.

[sudden pewter]

QuickCash should have been removed in favor of H2H as the beginner friendly gamemode

[unkempt moss]

I don't think you can have a limited lives round based mode and keep the dynamic explosive nature of the finals. People play too scared to take advantage of what makes the game great.

Where as point break, though it needs work, fits in. Its almost necessary to make big dangerous plays in PB to make progress and its just not possible when you have to play your life.

This is why cashout finds the perfect balance in my mind. You have to play your life but dying isnt enough punishing enough to where you need to be scared.

[scarlet ivy]

My tinfoil hat says too many people were playing head to head and that’s why they removed it

[sudden pewter]

We didn’t receive a reason for why they removed H2H yet, very odd

[scarlet ivy]

The quickcash chaos is the best though, that’s what we always play

[somber tiger]

Terminal attack tried to turn a chaotic shooter game into a methodical tactical shooter, Point Break turns a chaotic shooter into an even more chaotic shooter.

[scarlet ivy]

Just got to time your 3rd parties right and you can win like 90% of games

[unkempt moss]

This is coming from someone that didnt hate TA, I just couldn't be bothered to grind ranked.

[compact tundra]

Your tin foil hat speaks wise words

[sudden pewter]

PointBreak is significantly more chaotic than QuickCash.

[sudden pewter]

TA almost killed the game.

[indigo nexus]

Interesting stance but I'm not sure I fully agree. Your life isn't clearly less valuable in cashout than it was in terminal attack due to the larger number of rounds - in cashout a teamwipe at a bad time makes a bigger difference. However it does make sense that dangerous plays are more incentivised in point break, that seems hard to dispute.

[scarlet ivy]

Wasn’t ranked in the early seasons TA? I think I remember this…

[sudden pewter]

S3. It nearly killed the game.

[compact tundra]

Only for season 3

[unkempt moss]

Youre probably right

[scarlet ivy]

Ya I stopped playing until season 7 after that

[indigo nexus]

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration, but the community definitely didn't like it

[sudden pewter]

Some executive saw a YouTuber play R6S and tried to pivot the game in that direction out of the blue. (Conjecture)

It was very out of left field, that combined with the prevalence of Lights, and the strength of Lights at that time, ruined any chance the gamemode had for widespread adoption.

[unkempt moss]

I think TA could have worked as a side mode if the game was large enough.

[sudden pewter]

Perhaps

[unkempt moss]

Or LTM. But theres too much ill will against it now.

[indigo nexus]

The game wasn't very balanced for TA, but it didn't surprise me at all that they wanted to create a more competitive experience like that

[unkempt moss]

I think Cashout can be a competitive mode but I dont know if they have a hold on how to do it.

[indigo nexus]

Using H2H as a baseline, what would you change? Though it's fine if you don't have a 'plan'

I think I agree that the idea isn't inherently un-competitive, but the small team sizes seem to make it trickier for it to be as 'randomness-free' as most highly competitive games feel even if it weren't for the nature of the core game mechanics

the random spawns and unbalanced maps, too

[candid vessel]

Theres no way it wasn’t performing better than every other casual mode

[indigo nexus]

A lot of people could be like me..? I found it duller than ranked so never queued it at all

[candid vessel]

Its the only one i ever played and the queue times were always lightning fast. Ik it has less players per match but it was mostly 15-30 seconds if that. Other casual modes i find take like 2-5 minutes

[unkempt moss]

I look at it in its whole, to me H2H is fine but I haven't played it enough outside of it just being the final round.

I've thought about how to fix the griefing problem and I think the issue may be two things. Wipes are no longer swingy enough, and theres not enough ways to make money outside of just cashout/vault.

I think the mode where the different guns give more money being a normal mechanic would be healthy for the game and increase variety as well as ease the tension of balance.

Wipes awarding cash lost to the aggressor would allow for greater swings and comebacks. Which I feel they lost a bit. I had kept notes on it for a while but im not at my computer.

[candid vessel]

Although maybe the games just even more down on players now than it was 2 months ago idk the numbers

For like concurrence n stuff

[candid vessel]

I just enjoyed being able to play a cashout based mode that was 100% skill 0% 3rd parties

[unkempt moss]

One drastic idea in tandem with the wipe changes is the cashout not providing as much cash in the end portion but slowly adding to the total.

The main problem I see is how to reward plays who wipe a team but another team gets the final hit. So it would need to be percentage based and that would get messy/unintuitive. So I scrapped the idea mostly.

But I do think I was on the right track somewhat with wipes needing to be more valuable.

[indigo nexus]

The wipe awards is curious, it could push things in a healthier direction though I'm not sure. I wonder though, if greater swings and comebacks are really good for something being 'competitive'. It means the result is more heavily determined by a smaller sample of events, after all.

The weapon-based monetary rewards is fine for a competitive experience imo, but a lot of ranked players and such are not that great, so the difference between their reality and the meta that the pricing is based on will just lead to everyone using "annoying" weapons

[sudden pewter]

Most competitive games pride themselves on their predictable outcomes and engagements, The Finals differs so much because Embark tries to incorporate dynamism as such a foundational pillar of design. There’s always some small element of randomness, be it in rubble falling in just the right way to stop a steal or a barrel spawning in just the right spot to be used.

[unkempt moss]

True. I think it would make it a better viewer experience at least. What if when you wiped a team the coins dropped like quick cash for the 15% and you could cash them in to a cashout or vault?

[sudden pewter]

That being said, The Finals can still be competitive(obviously) but there needs to be organized chaos. Randomness inherently isn’t fair, so limiting that is troublesome.

[unkempt moss]

Then theres rewards for defending and winning a third party.

Or maybe you dont lose the 15% when in control of a cashout. But that would limit swing so who knows. Theres a lot of things that could be done, but without the ability to implement them its hard to see the final outcome.

[indigo nexus]

Honestly it just sounds a little annoying.

[indigo nexus]

This however, could be good but needs to be handled carefully

[unkempt moss]

Okay. What if instead of coins it became a bounty like the one mode.

And the bounty needed to be cashed in.

I think my guideline is there needs to be more active ways to manipulate cash.

By my estimation, griefing happens because there arent enough ways outside of combat to do it.

Outside of wipe/plug/cash. Not necessarily combat.

[sudden pewter]

Griefing is just a part of the gamemode, it’s a valid strategy even if it is unsportsmanlike. I’m not sure it can ever be “solved” without oversight.

Double Jeopardy is a good start, not sure where to go from there realistically.

[unkempt moss]

I wouldn't say its a problem either, but it seems to be to the community overall. To me its just a matchmaking or smurfing issue. Since it ideally shouldn't be possible if the matchmaking is optimal.

But that doesn't stop me from trying to think of ways to fix it. Since I only theory craft these days.

[indigo nexus]

I’m not sure what you mean

[unkempt moss]

When you wipe a team, that 15% becomes temporary cash for you. But for it to be added to your total it needs to be cashed in.

Or even held until the time runs out.

[indigo nexus]

Here’s a potentially undesirable soft method of stopping third parting / griefing, though:

When the game spawns you in against a specific objective, where that objective still has much of its time remaining, it doesn’t show you the other objectives on the HUD!

I think this would probably suck but I don’t know.

[indigo nexus]

More agreeable

However it would shift the balance less in favour of comebacks, and while I stand by that I don’t think there’s a clear reason to make comebacks stronger, I also don’t think there’s a clear reason to make them weaker.

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. Im not sure. Its pretty delicate.

[sudden pewter]

At that point wouldn’t it just be best to have head-to-head

[indigo nexus]

Haha, yeah. That’s valid

[open mulch]

hey do we know if the new skin for chuck, spike is a new person or just another outfit for chuck

[unkempt moss]

I believe its a new person...

[sudden pewter]

It’s a new ‘person’.

[open mulch]

lesgo more friends\

[sudden pewter]

His name is Spike. 🙂

[open mulch]

yea but i wanted to know if it waas just an alter ego of chuck or not

[unkempt moss]

That would probably be a question for the lore channel then.

[open mulch]

of sorry didnt see that channel i dont talk here much😭

[unkempt moss]

You can talk in here anytime, bud. But they know more about the different intricacies of things like that.

[open mulch]

yea mb

[warm python]

Any tips for playing Pike ?

[alpine sphinx]

tripple medium deserves to fucking die man, holy shit

[slow linden]

Damn

[candid vessel]

My top tip is put it down and use literally any other gun

Its the worst gun in the game atp by far

[warm python]

😢

[candid vessel]

Yh sad times ik ;-;

[warm python]

I donno why I fit quite well with that comp

Shockwave+ Model + proximity sensor for my team that's my main loadout

[candid vessel]

Model is the second worst gun in the game right now 😭😭

[warm python]

🫪 are you sure

2 tap lights and 3 tap medium is very nice the issue is precision and that's fixable with my aim

• 7 ammo

Hipfire 100% acc middle pellet while moving crazy

[candid vessel]

It’s objectively worse than the repeater in ever measurable way

Apart from hipfire and heavy ttk (unless you hit 1 headshot)

[alpine sphinx]

tripple defi is one of the most toxic things in this game

[warm python]

hmm 🧐 yea perhaps

I mean I have fun with my model and I'm getting good games I'm thinking more and it's more enjoyable

I don't really like an argument really

[candid vessel]

Oh its definitely fun and i like it but objectively speaking it is ass

They nerfed it way too hard back in the day

[faint steppe]

I always thought that removing one 12-player round while having two simultaneous final rounds in ranked would be the best approach.

12-man would decide the seeding with the first two places gaining more RS especially if both teams were expected to win the 12-man (this would somewhat counteract griefing out the better team if the increased RS gain would be noticeable enough). RS would only be lost if you lose your 3v3.

It would overall shorten the tourney for experienced players and I don't think it's a perfect system & would need a lot of tweaking etc.

But I do think their current approach is imo too long for often minimal RS gain and also can be too punishing if you lose the 12-player round.

[warm python]

I just wished the repetor to be removed

[candid vessel]

Why 😭

[warm python]

Why Making a other poke gun when pike exist ?

The crossbow is the same fuckin gun as a pike but faster at shooting

[candid vessel]

They’re much more different than the akm and fcar

[warm python]

AKM famas and fcar are different enough to be worth it for medium

[candid vessel]

That really annoys me tho. Like an indescribable amount

[warm python]

I was playing that crossbow but for some reason I didn't find as much fun as other guns

There was a time in s10 (my first season) where I just played Pike just good enough to be viable with a team

[candid vessel]

I dont like it very much even though its super good atm

[candid vessel]

Pike and viable haven’t been used in the same sentence since S7

[faint steppe]

I genuinely hate weapons that I have to spam click (V9s, Crossbow,..)

[faint steppe]

AKM should get the ARN-style reload imo

[warm python]

You're stronger in Tracking than in clicking dynamic and that's fine

[warm python]

Why ?
The gun is consistent easy to use and never let you down since the mag is big
if you can deal headshots it's a really good wpn

[faint steppe]

It's not even about that tbh. It's more about preference than efficiency. They simply don't feel great to use imo

[faint steppe]

It's fine but it never really performed better than "decent". Currently it's basically between the P90 and the FCAR but I don't think these all-rounder guns perform that well.

And I think it would be genuinely interesting to see if something like a double mag would make it a better pick. Potentially just another example of personal preference tho (won't deny that)

[unkempt moss]

What if we increase the pike damage by 1

[tardy light]

I can’t believe some people are posting whole outfit sets in the eggtivity

[faint steppe]

The game would die

[sudden pewter]

Would kill the game

[unkempt moss]

What if we increase the mag by 1

[sudden pewter]

Unthinkable, how could you even suggest that? You just wanna kill the Repeater and Chimera, I knew it.

[tall cipher]

repeater never dies

[tardy light]

odd number, encroaching on lewis identity, no go

(mags ending in 5 are not odd for the purposes of this)

(3 round burst weapons are also exempt for the purposes of this)

damn and cerberus, fuck, too many are odd

[empty vortex]

how do i counter dual swords? do i just act like im gonna run away from them so they charge without holding right click and i can shoot them or something else?

[sudden pewter]

That, or ironically get close to them. The reflection is handled serverside by a cone that stems from the middle of the crossed blades, the closer you are the more likely you are to bypass the reflect as the medium needs to be aiming directly at you

Alternatively, explosives. CL40 or MGL bypass it.

[empty vortex]

i have a rpg7 up my ass whenever i play heavy, it should work

[sudden pewter]

Won’t kill the Medium but will certainly make them think twice.

[distant cargo]

Other melees bypass it

A riot effeminate individual cowers at the sight of a sledgehammer, for he knows that he is at the mercy of the sledgehammer.

[sudden pewter]

Only 25% of the damage bypasses. 75% is blocked by the swords.

[unkempt moss]

Catter is on Waltuh's ass lmayo

[distant cargo]

Yeah but they're not gonna block

They're gonna get scared and run away. That's also why you have the winch and rpg on sledgehammer.

Figgens123 knows how it is

[unkempt moss]

Waltuh is on catters ass lmayo

[frigid imp]

what gadgets should i use on medium

[distant cargo]

0

I have finally gotten rid of my rust

Im consistently winning tournaments now unless my team is complete buns

[unkempt moss]

Defib, zip or jump, your choice. I like glitch trap in the third slot

[cobalt wadi]

what weapon and gadgets shouild i use for light class?

[kindred gorge]

Can’t go wrong - Vanish bomb, gateways, H+

Good in the right hands/situation - sonar, breach charge, any damage grenade, goo

Very niche but if you can work it well it helps - thermal bore, nullifier, smoke

Almost never worth it - tracking dart, flash

I could actually swap gateways and sonar on that list. Sonar is easier to use but the gateway just has so much utility that it’s worth taking the time to understand

As for weapons pretty much anything can be effect in the right hands, it is entirely dependent on what suits you best. My personal favorites are the two pistols and the lh11

[cobalt wadi]

ALR TYSM FOR THE HELP

btw i use xp whats the best shight for it?

[eager wasp]

the only right answer is

dash, 93r/m11/lh1/arn, h+, gateway, glitch grenade

[cobalt wadi]

im not useing gateway bc i just dont like it

[eager wasp]

crazy words

[cobalt wadi]

its just the truth for me

[lofty parrot]

We need to add a whip, for the heavy

Some kind of sound weapon for the light

And the medium needs an upgradeable autocannon

Plus extra damage for the melee weapons because

[fresh cobalt]

All we need is more scope options

Magnified scopes

[fresh cobalt]

For every weapon not just snipers

[icy egret]

I have on issue is that this game doesn't have good heels.

Besides in that Demoness set.

[unkempt moss]

Same

[icy egret]

I am a powerful little ewe.

I'm turning the glowing eyes off though.

I hope they have a KS-23 skin next season. I want to use it but the lack of a skin makes me apprehensive.

[eager wasp]

the little uhh.. like.. cannon type skin was cool

[icy egret]

Oh right. Not there yet.

[eager wasp]

peak skin, but i do agree that the ks could use some more skins, as well as dagger (yes i know dagger gets a lot but it needs even more)

[icy egret]

I wish for a Lewis skin in the next one then. I don't have a skin for it.

[icy egret]

Okay I had a game with the KS-23 and damn.

That was accurate. And fun.

[main monolith]

could anyone recommend a sword loadout pretty please

[lone charm]

grapple frag pyro gas

[candid vessel]

How about a loudout without sword

[candid vessel]

Sleeper pick of the century rn. Although more people are becoming aware of how good it is i think

[main monolith]

no thanks

[candid vessel]

Why not

[main monolith]

i wanna use it

[candid vessel]

Why do you want to be completely insufferable. Like genuine question. Thats all the sword is for in its current state

[main monolith]

cuz i like how the weapon works??? lmfao what

im only using it in tdm cuz i suck do you really think anyone cares in tdm

[main monolith]

this is fun btw thanks

cant decide if i like dash or cloak for sword

dash is probably better because you can close gaps without waiting for the m2 charge

[lone charm]

that was a joke what

[main monolith]

it was actually really fun
tried it for shits and giggles

i swapped grapple out for dash and it pretty much worked

only in tdm tho i would not use that in cashout

[kindred gorge]

Dash is unfortunately obligatory.

Gateway vanish nulli works well for a lot of people though

[main monolith]

i was thinking something like that would work but i always had 1 out of those replaced with something LOL

i really wanna learn sword it's so fun

[kindred gorge]

Yeah there’s room to play around. It excels in 1v1s but most people run into the trap of thinking it sucks because they rush in and get shot by multiple enemies at once. Consistency with nullifier can offset this a little but the ideal gameplay is to identify someone in a bad spot, get the pick and then withdraw for your next opportunity

Management of your spec, grapple or dash is VERY important

[main monolith]

i already kinda do that with the safety net of cloak so i gotta get used to dash instead

[kindred gorge]

Cloak has its uses but thanks to the alt fire dash sword can already close the gap super well so having a tool bent on retreating helps

If you want to use cloak it would be one of the rare instances I suggest smoke or flash so you can break their visual and then cloak, since cloaking at melee range is not effective

Goo grenade is also a solid pick for this function

[main monolith]

ill probably do dash first but i REALLY like cloak so ill keep this in mind

[kindred gorge]

Goo grenade in general is a very good gadget for melee due to its insane versatility

Upward mobility, retreat, blocking ambush angles, and stunning people out of steal, revives and reloads is still very potent even after the nerf

[main monolith]

nodnod... i really should use it more but i dont use it correctly so often

[kindred gorge]

All part of learning the game

[last steeple]

Dash is way better tbf xd

Dash is always better but some weapons can be used without em, sword is not one of those weapons 😔

Oh they already said that mb

[last steeple]

With a ranged weapon it actually seems fun, like you fly with the grapple and you spam air drops

Totally off meta and not viable but seems fun

[last steeple]

I mean you can face a full team with it, if you too have a full team, with actual great players who are a good distraction

[compact pebble]

what do people think about throwing knives (dash+infuser+sonar+gateway)? i've reached 36k with it - any tips? i've studied it a bit so I wanna see if I can see something refreshing

[last steeple]

TKS ARE GOATED
I've seen many players competing with midladder to pro players with em

Their only weakness is the range, and the terrible hitreg

[compact pebble]

range is actually decent
I remember sniping a sniper with it

[last steeple]

Wanna see a cool ytb channel ?

[last steeple]

Yeah but cannot compete with poke meta anyways, I also did great clips but ykyk

[compact pebble]

the playstyle seems to be mainly (i) chip damage with alt-click and stay behind cover (ii) after alt-click, if it's light I just go in (iii) if it's medium, I go in with left click as well after alt-click (iv) if it's heavy, I do 2 alt-clicks and then go in

it just seems to boil down to that and that made me win lots of games

[last steeple]

https://youtu.be/kP6ie5Ns-ag?is=MOzuOIc44T5g6lUy
Imma send it anyways

[last steeple]

Yeah pretty much, the most important thing is to know your combos, and the second most important is to land headshots, headshots are super powerful and will let you go in against a heavy too

[compact pebble]

headshots are pretty powerful, if the other team has a light, you can create a big push by taking out their lights, happened uncountable amount of times

[last steeple]

Yep, but it also makes a medium weak to qm and deals almost 2/3 of a heavy's hp bar

[compact pebble]

his bodyshots seems to be more consistent than me with left click

[last steeple]

Yeah same I struggle a bit with M1 sometimes

But like even one headshot on M1 and you one click a light if the second knife lands too

[compact pebble]

m1 reminding me of m11, I tried playing M11 for a long while and it's just a powerful weapon that leads me to duel everyone since it has a high duel win-rate, throwing knives has the nice side effect of me playing more cautiously

[last steeple]

I mean you can duel anyone with tks 🤓 if you don't miss any knife

I like tks gameplay more

[compact pebble]

would play more with tks but lost 2.3k elo today out of nowhere lol in 3 games

[last steeple]

😭 the finals

Next season rs will depend on personal performances too so we'll see how it goes

[compact pebble]

-# why didn't they do the personal performance RS adjustment earlier, it's a no-brainer i think, i dropped a 11 kill in one of these games as well but still lost with a 0 KDR person

[last steeple]

Btw I like the camo bomb too on tks, (even though you cannot charge M2, if you head tap with M1 burst damages are still huge) but yeah sonar allows you to peek with M2 and it's nice

[last steeple]

Ffffaaaahhhhh

[compact pebble]

a big failure point of throwing knives is getting ambushed/flanked/enemy coming out of nowhere or coming across 1+ players at the same time
sonar allows you to patch those

it's failure mode of any weapon tbh but again, still patches it

[last steeple]

Yeah true without right clicking it's way harder to get the kills, but I think the more gamesense you have, the less you'll need sonar (not that I have enough gamesense)

Like if you can seduce where the ennemies are it's alright, and dashes are here to save you if you get ambushed and if there's cover nearby ofc

[compact pebble]

camo bomb's nerfs are too much man 😭 also i think it leads you to make some.. weird decisions as you rely on the vanish
i personally had been more careful on covers and positioning more when I had no vanish

[last steeple]

Understandable 😭😭 "let's nerf bomb, it overshadows cloak" WELL JUST BUFF CLOAK IDK 😭

Ignore the first shot my brain was lagging

[lone charm]

the drone strike playstyle

[last steeple]

Dude immediately switched to tks just for me to win our 1v1s 🥀

[last steeple]

OH @compact pebble I JS THOUGT, how's your crosshair? Caus this crosshair helped me a lot, the cross helps position it, and the dot still helps you so you don't shoot right when they touch the edges of the cross

[compact pebble]

it reminds me of the game where I wiped the same team 3 times

[compact pebble]

I play with a dot. a straight dot. dottie.

[last steeple]

XDD it must have been terrible for em 😭

[last steeple]

Thats what I did too, I like the cross+dot more now

[compact pebble]

are you on the game? let's play cashout double tk

[last steeple]

Crazy idea but Im not playing rn Im in a call with friends 🧍‍♂️

I can give you my username if you want

[compact pebble]

go ahead

[compact pebble]

👍

[last steeple]

I'm not plat or anything 😔 tbf I'm silver 🧍‍♂️ I mean I think I can grind to plat and I'm not bad but I'm probably not as good as you idk

[icy egret]

I wonder who that sexy lady is. Heh.

[icy egret]

Lights are the worst teammates. Why are there 4 of you on defence just aiming at me while I use shields and all 3 of your vaults are captured. I wasn't even on their team, I just find it silly. They did not care for the objective at all.

Anyways, I love the Lady Unyielding set. Very nice.

[bitter surge]

BFR needs a range buff

[slow linden]

Actually it needs a heavy handed range nerf and a damage buff,maybe a couple handling tweaks

It should be revolver but on heavy and slightly slower or clunkier,not a sniper on heavy with reflex and irons

[unkempt moss]

I agree

There's ways it could have kept its range without it receiving the embark special.

[stoic garden]

i think it absolutely deserved the embark special lmao

[unkempt moss]

A brainless nerf? Nothing in the game does.

[stoic garden]

a weapon with actual weaknesses? inconceivable.

[stoic garden]

how would you change it exactly

[sudden pewter]

I would make it good but not OP obviously

I would probably….change it….

[stoic garden]

are you implying it's bad now 🤔

[bitter surge]

Absolutely not but it could receive some range buff

[unkempt moss]

How would I change it? I'd make it function like the weapon it is, a single action revolver. Which would be accurate when fired slowly, but maintain its ability to fan. I wouldn't have touched the damage/range until after I saw how it functions after these changes.

1. It becomes a hybrid weapon similar to KS with its projectle starting much later to ease the poke meta at the time.

2. Its a single action, the heavy has to action the hammer every time it fires.
   M1 is the trigger, M2 is the hammer.

• Holding M2, pulls the hammer back and ADS normally. Giving better ranged capability with slow fire rate, close to like 60. Making misses shots far more punishing.
• Holding M1 pulls the trigger and holds it back. Then you can "fan the hammer" by clicking M2 for rapid fire with heavy bloom from the hip.
  So fanning works like a reverse of ADS.

Almost as fast as you can pull the trigger you could fan. Almost like a v9s. So it could burst down heavies up close and still maintain its ranged attributes like a long barrel revolver would.

[sudden pewter]

He wants the everything gun! Kill him!

[unkempt moss]

I think its pretty nuanced for an everything gun. Still maintains intended weaknesses for you

[sudden pewter]

I’d argue it strays too far from how a standard firearms works and that unintuitiveness would make Embark disregard it as a potential rework

[unkempt moss]

100%

But Gouf patch also includes firing anyone telling me I'm wrong. Good luck

[sudden pewter]

Once again, the average player isn’t the brightest and if you give them a weapon with any capability there’s a large chance they’ll assume that’s what it’s there for. If the BFR is supposed to be a range weapon but you add fanning, you’ll end up with a bunch of discontent idiots saying their fanning gun needs to be buffed.

[stoic garden]

looks fun but is probably gonna mean i destroy anyone if i jump them (or use winch)

[sudden pewter]

We see this with the minigun and its demolition damage, it has demolition damage so clearly it’s the demolition gun and it needs more demolition damage to fulfill that role.

Even though that isn’t the case and you’re a dumb stupid doodoo head if you think that.

[stoic garden]

i wonder who this is directed to

[unkempt moss]

Gouf has a winch rework, but i understand what youre saying. If a heavy jumps someone then so be it. Its already the case with many of its guns.

[sudden pewter]

Everyone that disagrees with me needs to acknowledge they jiggle when I walk, it’s the only way they’ll come around as they cannot be introspective.

[unkempt moss]

Right, but i want the gun to be engaging not worry about people that have 30 minutes on the gun saying it sucks.

Go play medium revolver if you want a straight forward double action

[sudden pewter]

The gun sucks because Embark designed it to be problematic, then realized it was problematic once it got into the players hands, and had to backpedal on the weapons core niche because it was problematic.

[stoic garden]

average embark

[sudden pewter]

It’s a pointless addition at this point, it’s a KS23 with no demolition damage. It’s still cool, there’s potential, but it’ll require a more hands-on rework to give it a new dedicated niche.

[unkempt moss]

Theyve been gifted one by yours truly.

[indigo nexus]

I'm not convinced it wouldn't have worked if they just nerfed the gun's closer range performance significantly

[sudden pewter]

Reverse damage falloff?

Or poorer handling?

[unkempt moss]

I think he meant poorer handling.

Reverse fall off is more of a dreamer idea. I dont think i could find a universe in which Solar suggests something like that.

[sudden pewter]

Clearly what needs to happen is we get secondary weapons so that primary weapons can have dedicated ranges at which they’re effective! ||This is a terrible idea and obviously a joke. There are no redeeming qualities.||

[unkempt moss]

Make all melee secondary weapons!

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, that way I can have a SR84 as a primary and a sword secondary so I’m effective at both extremes with 0 downsides

[unkempt moss]

Losing your self respect is a downside all on its own.

[frozen rune]

such a good idea that will have no foreseeable downsides

[sudden pewter]

You say that but Smurfs and Cronus users are on the rise. There’s very little competitive integrity in a consequence free environment

[unkempt moss]

Did you see riot flexing on cheaters?

All it takes is full forfeit of free will to the Chinese government and extremely invasive anticheat.

[sudden pewter]

“Flexing on cheaters” is such a shit takeaway because what actually happened was Riot admitting their players have software that can brick their computers at the press of a button. Vanguard is legally obligated to release any information to the Chinese State upon request.

Look guys! We have no privacy and we’re happy about it! Download league of legends!

Long Live Xi-Xinping!

America has dogshit privacy protection laws compared to the EU but China is genuinely dystopian.

[unkempt moss]

My rule of not playing games that require a new launcher keeps me out of a lot problems thankfully.

It was horrifying to read about that whole thing.

[sudden pewter]

Steam is the only glorious monopoly. I would lay down my life for Big Gabe.

[unkempt moss]

Absolutely.

If you want to be a consumer friendly monopoly go for it.

[sudden pewter]

Competition would be thriving if they’d stop shooting by themselves in the foot. Valve isn’t squeaky clean but they do the bare minimum of not assaulting you for your wallet.

Mind it’s still a primary driver, but Valve isn’t pushing subscriptions on you for basic QoL.

[unkempt moss]

I just need Valve to release two things. SteamCC so I can get money back for game purchases and SteamSpeak so I can get off discord.

And SteamGrocery so I can spend money on my SteamCC while talking to my friends on SteamSpeak

[indigo nexus]

Before such an extreme is necessary we could just have very little or even no falloff

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shoo-away-gif-13653609800890535042

“Hey Catter why are you against the addition of weapon customization?”

• Any two of the same gun are now wildly different, one Shak may be similar to what we know now but another could have additional bullets or more range which makes smart engagements less plausible.
• Everything guns. Why would I use anything other than the ARN when I can make it fit any niche by adjusting attachments?
• Embark struggles with balance as is, adding x10 factors to each firearm would make the issue x10 worse.

B-But it adds more depth to the game!!!1! You just hate fun!!
At the cost of everything listed above. The Pros don’t outright the Cons.

More optics would be great though, anything more is bad terrible awful stupid stinky poopy uhoh.

[broken mulch]

I feel like the red dot sight is just the best sight tho right?

Least clutter? There’s not much magnification stuff going on on either

[sudden pewter]

Compact Reflector is great, but ultimately it’s personal preference. I use different sights for different weapons.

[broken mulch]

Fair enough

[sudden pewter]

That being said, zoom levels should be plainly listed rather than having average, enhanced, and such. Or, just add the actual value alongside it.

[unkempt moss]

Im a believer in the triangle sight for some reason.

[tall cipher]

what if they make the double barrel shorty in to a normal double barrel then give light a shortened version of the model 1887

[sudden pewter]

What if they made the double barrel a double barrel and gave light a model 1887?

[tall cipher]

and the double barrel goes to med

[sudden pewter]

No.

[tall cipher]

or heavy

[sudden pewter]

Absolutely not.

[tall cipher]

what if they gave the crossbow to light

[unkempt moss]

Give heavy an over-under goosegun

[sudden pewter]

What if they gave Light the M134 😮

[tall cipher]

excellent idea

[sudden pewter]

I’d expect nothing less of you

[tall cipher]

i'm a light main

so of course

[broken mulch]

what if they gave the light a nuke

[tall cipher]

thats too far

[unkempt moss]

So no goosegun

[tall cipher]

no, thats good

[unkempt moss]

They should just @ me next time

[sudden pewter]

Real

[unkempt moss]

Im a fn problem out here for the TDM boyz

[sudden pewter]

Not entirely sure what he’s suspicious of though? That the two star players are cheating? What exactly needs to stop, the sidelining? If that’s the case improve at the game.

[unkempt moss]

He's saying there's cheaters without committing.

[sudden pewter]

Not suspicious matchmaking?

I do recall some players claimed there was EBMM, though I’m not sure it’s an issue even if there is.

[unkempt moss]

Does tdm use matchmaking

[sudden pewter]

As I understand there’s no SBMM beyond ranked. WT used to use a significantly lesser SBMM but now that every mode gives WT points I’m unsure.

[unkempt moss]

Even so, would that even be bad matchmaking if both sides have a hitter

[sudden pewter]

I’ve played with and against signed players in TDM, I don’t see an issue.

It’s TDM, an inherently casual gamemode. All you do is kill, and try not to get killed.

[tardy light]

WT("cashout") still uses some matchmaking im pretty confident of that

[unkempt moss]

I'd prefer to have a hitter in the lobby. That way I can go after them endlessly

[tardy light]

I think WT matchmaking may be more as to time played than performance or some hidden MMR though

[sudden pewter]

I understand being frustrated with lackluster teamates, especially Lights that run blindly into 1v3’s. It’s very common in TDM, but to complain about star players on either team?

[unkempt moss]

He hates us cause he ain't us. Shrimple as

[indigo nexus]

rob (iirc) said that it tries to match together players of a similar "level", with "level" in quotes

it could relate to progress, but that would be a pretty odd matchmaking style

and stated that he would have very different teammates when queuing with very good players

[wild zenith]

gas kinda goes hard with the matter

even if they only take 1 tick of damage, you can 1tap a light and 2tap a medium

[tardy light]

i just feel like i NEVER see noobs in cashout. i see good players and bad players. but they all have like 1k+ wins. meanwhile, i go queue any quickplay mode and see tons of fresh accounts. i genuinely see more new accounts in ranked than unranked because theyre smurfing

so sorting by level wouldnt shock me. and its probably a decent system, better than nothing

[scarlet ivy]

I got my daughter playing the finals and when I group with her (she is like lev 10 and I am like 110), the matches are waaaaay easier (with a lot of low lev players) than when I group with my lev 100+ friends and everyone in the lobby is like lev 150.

[distant cargo]

Every medium weapon when I use it is like im trying to beat up prime mike tyson only by using water balloons whilst when they use the same weapons against me I get melted.

No, I'm not bad. It's ONLY Medium weapons that do this. P90 and crossbow are the worst.

Im just gonna run turret riot shield and only mines hopefully it works out

[muted condor]

Sorry to say it but that’s just bad aim

[distant cargo]

I am totally fine with L and H weapons

[stoic garden]

again, Sorry to say it but that’s just bad aim

[distant cargo]

Unless you are implying that aiming magically changes with M that isnt the issue

[distant cargo]

So you don't know how video games work, makes sense

[muted condor]

Somewhat depending on what weapons you use on each class actually

[stoic garden]

???? i do agree that med weapons have more annoying recoil on average but that doesn't justify sucking with them lol

[distant cargo]

Some M weapons are fine, its really crossbow and p90 that are the worst here

[muted condor]

Heavy doesn’t rely on hitting headshots to win fights as much usually and light has enough dps to kill other lights and mediums without headshots quickly

[distant cargo]

So its just those weapons specifically NEED headshots

[stoic garden]

p90 feels pretty easy idk, crossbow is a quick single firing weapon so it's a bit harder to actually aim with ig

[slender mica]

I think the reasons you lose is you don't have the benefit of health/high ammo of a heavy or the movement/low ttk of light

[muted condor]

Pretty much

[slender mica]

Medium is a lot about positioning and not taking "fair 1v1s"

[distant cargo]

I wanted to like the crossbow. I am a massive fan of KCD so medieval style weapons sre exactly what I want

Is it bad that I've NEVER touched the data reshaper

[stoic garden]

yes

[unkempt moss]

Good, my ork fellas are in here. What videogames are worth buying to play as Ork. I'm trying to immerse myself in the culture.

[sudden pewter]

Not many unfortunately. I’m hoping within my lifetime we get an FPS 40k game that isn’t as dated as Fire Warrior

A foot slogging FPS with the various factions akin to old Battlefield games would be an infinite money printer

[unkempt moss]

I wish they had a boomer shooter like boltgun

[sudden pewter]

Hell, even a Finals Arena style game set in Commoragh could work

[sudden pewter]

You and me both. Speed Freeks is cool but leaves much to be desired.

[unkempt moss]

Oh I'm loving Speed Freeks.

[sudden pewter]

I stopped playing a year ago and while the DeffKopta is cool it isn’t enough for me to want to return. Workshop is great though

[unkempt moss]

Oh... you're a copta player.

I kid. I wanted to like the heli but it didnt actually handle like one so it wasn't for me.

I've almost unlocked the Trukk so im excited for that.

[sudden pewter]

Nah I can’t remember what I played

I was in the beta, long time ago

[unkempt moss]

Its not main game material but its the best 5$ ive spent on a video game in a long time.

Are the total war games any good?

[distant cargo]

Is 40k public domain or something how do they have so much shit

[distant cargo]

Oh boy! I love boomer shooters!

[main monolith]

this is real but i think its also because medium is kinda. weird
you dont have the mobility of light to chase people and you technically CAN fortify a cashout but not as good as a heavy

[distant cargo]

A lot of people complain that medium doesn't really have an identity

[main monolith]

medium feels a lot more like a "this is for gunplay" class than the other 2

[distant cargo]

It is just a worse version of light and heavy simultaneously

[main monolith]

yeah honestly

but they also put like one of the BEST gadgets on it so you kinda gotta have at least one medium

its like. i really wanna like medium but its a really big nothingburger

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/calm-gif-8293915206003753096

[distant cargo]

Heavy has better gadgets

[main monolith]

its also a skill issue on my part but we Dont mention that part

[distant cargo]

Medium in its entirety deserves a rework

[sudden pewter]

This is why we gotta level restrict this channel

[unkempt moss]

Amen

[main monolith]

im just stating my opinion man 😔

[sudden pewter]

Your opinion sucks farts out of my ass!!!1!2!!

[unkempt moss]

Amen

[main monolith]

Uhhhhh nuh uh

[main monolith]

i do like medium actually i think its just not as fun as light or heavy for me

love yhe revolver tho when i use the revolver i feel the revolver god coming inside of me

[unkempt moss]

Pause

[main monolith]

i said what i said.

[main monolith]

also snap cycle is so good

[unkempt moss]

Catter is dakka the orks imitating a gun noise? Or what

[sudden pewter]

Dakka is a blanket terminology for firepower yes.

We need more Dakka.
We need more guns/firepower.
Dakka Dakka Dakka
Orkz imitating gun noises.

No self respecting Ork uses lasers, proper shootas are as loud as possible

[unkempt moss]

I be hittin the dakka quick chat after every kill. Glad I was on target.

[naive glacier]

I feel like hover pad should be able to carry cashout stations. Medium would have more cashout manipulation options aside from the jump pad

[distant cargo]

Medium is straight mid this is just a fact

[unkempt moss]

I mean technically youre right

[tall cipher]

is not with scar/repeater. those are awesome guns and turret isn't bad

[icy egret]

This opinion hurts my brain.

[tall cipher]

but light is the GOAT

[icy egret]

Heavy? Better gadgets? I must be in la-la land.

[tall cipher]

i mean heavy does have some of the best gadgets like lockbolt, rpg and pyro mine

[icy egret]

-# Pyro mine and Lockbolt? You're comparing these to Defibrillator, Flying Fox and Jump Pad?

-# I'm going crazy, I'm just going to shower.

[tall cipher]

lockbolt+lewis or shak 50. pyro mines on the bottom of the cashout

[distant cargo]

Boring weapons and turret is disabled by so many things

[distant cargo]

Anti-gravity cube, barricade, rocket launcher

[tall cipher]

boring but good. and the turret is for a distraction

[unkempt moss]

Dont worry about the haters. Heavy has the best of everything.

[lone charm]

bait used to be believable smh my head

[unkempt moss]

Funnest weapons, specs, and gadgets in the game.

[tall cipher]

only disadvantages, they're big and slow

[lone charm]

key word being only

[unkempt moss]

Slow being a disadvantage maybe, big is an advantage.

[icy egret]

I will say that the weapons and specs are fun. Heavy's gadgets are not good though in comparison to what medium and light have.

[unkempt moss]

Good or fun?

[icy egret]

No comment.

[lone charm]

try playing anti grav

[tall cipher]

more than once i've been able to mow a heavy down with all headshots. cus their heads are big

[lone charm]

absolutely goated gadget if you know what youre doing

[icy egret]

I've used it before. It's fine for stall on defence.

(I mostly play Point Break nowadays.)

[lone charm]

me too yeah

but thats like the tip of the iceberg zawg