💣┇weapons-gadgets

[tardy light]

Well, yes, with every weapon you have to track the opponent and occasionally “flick” your mouse, but I think Staniel is asking if you just try to track while spamming m1 (like an AR), or place careful shots before pressing m1 (like revolver/repeater/KS/BFR)

With v9s it’s definitely basically full tracking. Deagles probably a bit context dependent. And you always wanna be careful not to bloom too much. But you also can’t just slow down your rof too much or you lose fights. Deagles are a really satisfying fire rate to use

[somber tiger]

I was thinking of trying the v9s once I get the marksmaster skin, but my tracking is horrible compared to flick aiming

[tardy light]

Like, if a dash light is running away from me my deagles are a repeater. But if a heavy is pulling up to me they’re a Lewis gun. U get what I mean

[tardy light]

tracking with semi autos is especially rough because you have to click a lot and that throws off your aim, maybe try something full auto first to ease into it like arn m11 FCAR etc

[somber tiger]

The only full auto I've really used is the minigun and occasionally the m60

[tardy light]

Minigun doesn’t count, m69 good practice tho

[eager wasp]

m60 is a great option to practice with

akm if you are on medium, and arn on light

[somber tiger]

m60 seems much easier than Lewis gun, but I've heard Lewis gun is basically a straight upgrade once you get good with it

[eager wasp]

lewis has much more wild recoil but a solid pick ye

[tardy light]

Yes, by 35 meters m60 does half damage while Lewis is doing full damage lol.

Dps at close range is very very close. The only m60 benefit is less spray control (learnable) and ~30% larger mag (crutch)

jk not a crutch that’s bad faith, it allows for more plays, but the range is awesome on lewis. Though I’ve met some cracked m60 players

[somber tiger]

Wish they'd just give m60 a 100 round belt just to see what would happen

[tardy light]

that’d be kinda based as fuck

before someone replies to me that m60 is 50% larger it’s not true when you consider fire rate and damage per shot, just preemptively explaining myself

[somber tiger]

I think mag size is useful specifically against mesh

and goo

[tardy light]

not like lewis has a small mag though. Also, Lewis reloads a bit faster

Also, even though lewis has more recoil, it feels more accurate in terms of cone of fire(dispersion), or maybe that’s placebo

[muted condor]

M60 is better because it’s got more aura

[somber tiger]

The wiki says the tactical is the same speed, but wiki also calls throwing knives a silent weapon

[tardy light]

True. Bipod jiggle physics

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/c%26rsenal-anvil-mark-novak-m60-machine-gun-gif-7250169372303521097

It releases my inner rice mower

[tardy light]

Which wiki? The one I use does not

[somber tiger]

also the grit & glory empty reload is based

[tardy light]

3.55s m60 3.25s lewis

2.2s deagles 😩

[somber tiger]

I had the tactical and empty mixed up

[tardy light]

all good

[tardy light]

I think throwing knives are silent as long as they hit the enemy lolol

[muted condor]

Fuck, I want to redownload and play with the m60 again

[somber tiger]

is the 2.2 for deagles including the super early animation cancel?

[tardy light]

You’re gonna get defibbed into a room full of enemies by a suiciding medium console player

[muted condor]

Damn you people I’m trying to better my life by cutting this game out of it

[tardy light]

Are you talking about the time when the reload is complete but before you can shoot?

[somber tiger]

yes

[tardy light]

I’m pretty sure for every weapon, that’s based off its equip time. So you can’t animation cancel as far as I know

I think the values are the full reload time, until when you can shoot again, but I’m not sure

I really want them to add a third reload phase to deagles for when you have 1 bullet left :/

[somber tiger]

I know you can't switch off and then back to make it faster, but heavy has other things to do like rpg/lockbolt/goo gun reload and chuck management

[tardy light]

Oh yeah, deagles is very nice for that reason. just cause I can do a quick reload then pick up chuck. Rather than spend 3 long ass seconds rematerializing a new lewis gun while my team is waiting for me

[somber tiger]

I guess that's why people like deagles + goo gun despite deagles not being good at breaking goo

[tardy light]

Ekazo is probably the cause of 50% of goo deagles players, I haven’t thought about why it’s a common combo otherwise, i don’t think any weapon is particularly good at breaking goo (except flame), but deagles are nice cause you can break goo and reload the gun quickly and not have to worry about being caught reloading

Also, as you mention, the deagles reload into goo reload combo

Also both off meta, and a person playing one off meta thing is probably more likely to play another off meta thing

Many reasons

Goo deagles was my s9 loadout just cause I found both fun, I didn’t even know who ekazo was or think about if it was optimal

I’ve been itching to return to goo ks, mesh/winch lewis has been draining my soul like a contract with the devil

anyways good night

[slow linden]

You can't

This is all our curse to endure

[icy egret]

Singular ass this time. Could've been double but I had lots of kills and revives stolen.

[slow linden]

Ass and blasphemous bullshit

[icy egret]

True. Smart.

[slow linden]

Dagger keeps calling to me,been a week since I did this

Cns is low key kinda shit,it controls so shittily its just so easy to juke if you pay even the smallest bit of attention

[slow linden]

That's the wrong clip although it is funny,this one's the right one

[muted condor]

Already uninstalled

I some how already forgot how dog shit the game is now

[icy egret]

... The MGL is totally fair for this game mode. From 40 tokens to 4 over ages, and right when we were about to win, the server closed.

We were completely stomping them until that point and when they started using the MGL.

[slow linden]

I just got diddled by cheater stacks back to back

0 gamer score or achievements,default pfp,somehow level 150 accounts,probably bought or unlock tooled

[unkempt moss]

Good for you, bud. Stay strong.

[muted condor]

Maybe by season 15 there will be some fun added but for now r6 is somehow more enjoyable

[stoic garden]

i think it will because fcar still has good long range superiority against most weapons, including akm

[alpine sphinx]

we need an overall healing nerf

heal beam and h+ provide way too consistent heals that supports camping

[alpine sphinx]

nah they both need to be adjusted, they are way to effective at long range for them to be this good when hipfired. But yeah Fcar is definitely the bigger problem

assault rifles and HMG should not have better effective ranges than semi auto ones

[stoic garden]

what about famas?

[viscid carbon]

FAMAS lowk needs 24 damage

[stoic garden]

does it really?

[glossy sun]

isn't Famas a Mid to Long range burst with good headshot damage?

[alpine sphinx]

ranked is actually so fucking aids these days, horrendous matchmaking, unbalanced maps, shitty spawn logic and game balance that supports 1 playstyle per class

[stoic garden]

my team never waits for me so i got all the time

I've got good enough positioning that i dont often reload in inconvenient spots, though it does hinder my emitter carrying experience, i usually just reclaim it from afar because of that

or my g carries it for me cuz he plays spear

[polar cedar]

it does NOT 🙏

famas is good as is, only can see a recoil or spread buff helping it in the long term

[warm python]

h+ shouldn't even exist

[stoic garden]

they gave light h+ cuz they had no idea how to make it ranked viable otherwise lmao

[warm python]

They broke Medium identity for that bullshit

[stoic garden]

my brother in Christ, medium has shockwave

they dont care about no identity

[warm python]

I need to recheck that fuckin video

nerf to the ground h+ influser or make it damage based like moira

[stoic garden]

don't take the opinions of others, make your own if you have the knowledge

[warm python]

I agree with the option of said other

[stoic garden]

i think there is a place for h+ in the game, but it would have to be quite nerfed and less versatile

but more importantly... MAKE OTHER GADGETS VIABLE

it doesn't have to be insane buffs, but aint no way pyro nade cant get a lil more impact damage, a lil more damage to goo

it feels like they only ever balance the top 3 equipment and leave everything else hanging with minimal changes

[grand turtle]

Half the gadgets and weapons are forgotten
Its always about the top3

[somber tiger]

Heavy is pretty balanced other than weapons, the other classes have two gadgets and one spec way better than the others, and that spec for medium is a worse H+

[candid vessel]

They have the same falloff multiplier and a max range difference of 2.5 metres

[tardy light]

FCAR is way more accurate though

even if they have same falloff, it’s easier to beam someone at range with FCAR than with AK

[candid vessel]

I mean i honestly feel like they’re as accurate as each other. The recoil is very different but they’re both super accurate

[indigo nexus]

huh, since like season two I've had an incorrect value for its maximum falloff range

zaffermann or someone must have initially incorrectly measured it, I wrote it down, and since it never got touched by a balance change I never updated it

[candid vessel]

All my numbers are from the finals wiki which ive seen lots of other people quote and not get challenged so

[indigo nexus]

wiki is sometimes wrong, but this is backed by multiple sources

[candid vessel]

Okay having multiple sources is a good way to be reliable yh

[indigo nexus]

so the comparison really looks like this

[candid vessel]

Yeah the minimum distances are 30m and 35m

And the max ones are 37.5m and 40m

[somber tiger]

I just played against a cheater in world tour

[pastel wyvern]

the sad part is instead of seeing why players liked that tech and reworking it into an intended feature with a more understandable execution for new players, they just delete that shihs and dont think about it ever again

I've heard smth about them trying to make quick meele and meele combos less useful and honestly i think thats fucking stupid
its not even input dependant, you just look at the damage numbers and use your brain
with a bit of work combos could have been just the normal way to use meele

[indigo nexus]

We do not know that this was ever their intention. There has not been evidence for a trend of this description so far, only one balance change was made which moved things in this direction, and a couple of changes have moved it slightly in the other direction too.

For that balance change, they did say that it should reduce quick melee combos, but it is not clear that that was their motive as opposed to a factual statement about what changed

Riot shield's gotten one more quick melee combo, sword's gotten one (I think) more, sledgehammer got a couple less, I think that's it so far.

[hushed garnet]

what are thee best items and abilitys to go with revolver

[last steeple]

I love using mines

But ig if you play medium just play defib xdddd, then I enjoy using demat and goo nades but again it's not meta, if you're actually skilled use shockwave, if not use heal beam

[hushed garnet]

ok

[last steeple]

Pad is almost mandatory, super fun, and will help you in a lot of situations when playing revolver

[somber tiger]

The reply doesn't even mention the slingshot tech that I specifically referenced, which wouldn't even need to be canged because It's a situational tech on a spec that doesn't work well on sledgehammer.

[arctic zodiac]

Is it me or is the ADS time on the Repeater longer with a sight?

Gotta be my brain not braining!

[flint dawn]

ts is you

ts stands for "this shit"

[foggy snow]

Now that I'm back, I was going to be retesting a bunch of weapons. In particular, the damage dropoff curves need to be nitpicked since I never had a super precise method of deriving those.

I did basically everything solo, but damage dropoff stuff requires another player to be online for rather long periods of time, pinging me for rangefinding and shooting me while I do damage readouts.

the only time that I ever got truly accurate damage dropoff curves was from patch notes, if they're ever available.

There are a few other things that I'd like to do, like measuring gun spread in hipfire and ADS

but unfortunately that requires the use of a recoil macro, against the ToS

[arctic zodiac]

Spanks! 😄

I only get that feelig with the reddot though. Feels fine with a holo.

[tardy light]

maybe you can do it in practice range with permission(in case you get banned) after contacting support, or do it on an alt to be safe

[arctic zodiac]

Update that shit! Used it for several seasons before you left 🙂

[hushed garnet]

i jost died to a lockbolt

[indigo nexus]

At some point I might try gathering the data that defines a gun’s spread behaviour (base circle sizes in different stances, how much is added per bullet, how rapidly it decays, maximum circle sizes) rather than measuring bullet impacts or just base circle size, but it’d take a while so… maybe not

Should be a feasible endeavour once I’ve figured out any nuances to the mechanics

Though I’m more inclined to do that for Arc Raiders first, as spread is much more important to understand there!

I could be the first person in that community to develop practical range-based TTK charts

(or just good TTK metrics in general honestly)

[tardy light]

5dmg

[glossy sun]

Please... cause we stop The Blank point sniper...

[arctic zodiac]

No its a shotgun now!

[glossy sun]

Ah yes a Shotgun that Reaches Over 40m

[pastel wyvern]

thats interesting

chat what are your best guesses for the next light spec

i think it'll be a human sized rat trap with a fake vault set as bait

[tardy light]

Teleport

[pastel wyvern]

aint no way they add another movement spec

im sure they'll give light placeable banana peels

[unkempt moss]

Defib

[pastel wyvern]

fuck 😭 medium mains got ONE season and now light has our identity

[unkempt moss]

Fixes the defib problem at least.

[candid vessel]

Shoulder mounted missile launcher

[candid vessel]

Most shotguns do

[indigo nexus]

To be honest the only idea I'm aware of that has stuck with me as 'plausible' is some kind of fancy parkour aid spec, but I don't think that's actually too realistic

[pastel wyvern]

honestly somewhat plausible

[calm yarrow]

Maybe add to the Heavy's C4 ability to choose, which bomb will explode, if you have 2 of them on the map?
For example, continuously pressing R beacons appearing, like cashout or vault beacons. Now aim on the needed beacon and detonate needed C4.

[tardy light]

i agree, c4 needs that buff for sure xD

[candid vessel]

What if turret exploded after a short delay once hitting zero health

I feel like that could make it more worthwhile without making it broken

[shell sonnet]

might be interesting
but i feel like it falls into a similar "everything role" others have suggested before (which im not too fond of)

breaching tool i guess?
helpful for angles and set-ups
maybe manual detonation?

[lapis meadow]

Can you show a video of this?

[tardy light]

Just go in the practice range and shoot a target 40m away

It’ll do like no damage but it technically reaches. They’re just being pedantic

[craggy shuttle]

skill issue

[unkempt moss]

What does everything role mean in this context?

[somber tiger]

Regardless of viability, does anyone actually find turret fun to use? Every other medium spec drastically changes the playstyle, but with turret you just place it down to sometimes get some extra damage.

[candid vessel]

I meant irl. Video game shotguns are unrealistically ass at range for balancing reasons

[unkempt moss]

I had a version of turret I was working on back in the day when it was still popular to imagine a rework. I think turret is fun and would be the spec i run if it wasn't worthless. I often still do when I run medium.

[tardy light]

some people like stuff like that

just played WT with an interesting 2-stack on my team: both on smurf accounts (to skimp the soft matchmaking), playing meta loadouts, stomping the noob lobby, AND griefing out a team.

i ask why you would grief out in (1) unranked and (2) you can easily beat all of the teams anyways

answer: its the point of the game dude

what this means to me is that griefing/boosting in ranked (a meta-tactic to make the next round easier and maximize your rank) is so prevalent that people literally do it for no reason now in unranked. its habitual. that makes me sad

[cosmic oriole]

what could be some fun skin ideas to draw

im thinking of making a set of toy themed weapons but idk

[half heron]

Slot machine revolver is GASSS

[cosmic oriole]

thanks! these are old designs lol

[cosmic oriole]

i also did one for the titan, comes in a set

[light harbor]

Day 369 of asking for melee to be nerfed

Day 369 of asking for melee to be nerfed

[lapis meadow]

again. Proof?

[candid vessel]

Thats like asking for proof that the sky is blue. Like are you capable of using google

[lapis meadow]

https://youtu.be/5uIGbfS3Chc?t=578

seems about right to me in terms of bullet type and range

[last steeple]

Those bots are getting dangerous

What if embark listen to them

[unkempt moss]

Sometimes the sky is orange and sometimes gray. Purple and turquoise sometimes where im from.

[slow linden]

Give heavy a cluster bomb gadget

[viscid carbon]

XP should get reworked back to 17 damage per bullet, just make it 820-830 RPM instead of 850

Plus the ARN was ass when the XP was meta, now it's the other way around

[unkempt moss]

As a nonXP user, explain why.

[viscid carbon]

It simply doesn't hold a candle to the M11 and ARN
A small bump in DPS and ammo efficiency would do wonders for it, given that the capacity combined with the slow reload speed are its biggest downsides
Additionally, this would also slightly increase its ranged damage if the same damage multiplier is kept, it could really use it to compete a bit with the ARN at mid-range

It's also just a bit of a peashooter sometimes ngl

[cosmic oriole]

trumpet skin sketch for the model 1887

doot doot.

[foggy snow]

I personally don't like its cooldown mechanics, nor the fact that it tends to be slow to react to anything.

no idea why anyone picks it tbh. a mystery just like the Pyro Grenade.

[eager wasp]

nope, used it only when it was forced upon me for the ltm that was terminal attack, its my least used spec and probably will always be that way until i decide i wanna grind levels for it

[last steeple]

Bring back terminal attack 🗣️ 🔥
I played very few games but it was fun after all

[unkempt moss]

People don't like it.

[last steeple]

People hated it mostly because it was in ranked nah ?

[unkempt moss]

Probably. It doesnt quite fit the finals feels but I still think it has its place. Just not enough to keep it alive im assuming.

It needed tweaking but the playerbase of it didnt warrant the work and maintenance.

[empty vortex]

is this a good loadout for heavy in ranked cashout?

[empty vortex]

dude they should use that

[sharp wasp]

pretty good

could exchange the frag for c4 so you have some remote stall and it would help with breaking more stuff without having to use your rpg

tho atp you would be running just top tier gadgets anyway hahaha but if you like to use them np ofc

[empty vortex]

makes sense but honestly i took the frag because c4 doesnt have the range and its kinda harder to use it tricky but i guess i can change in between when i want to lol why not

[empty vortex]

understandable lol

[sharp wasp]

if you like to use it no prob but defo worth trying out the c4 if it interests you

[empty vortex]

Oh i used it before and its so satisfying to see an enemy blown to coins after running over my c4 lol, will do

[hoary wyvern]

remove view lock from the sword. it is totally broken. sometimes u cant look around after lunges even after u already finish and doing left click.

[shell sonnet]

winch that does this to buildings?

like, not a full building ofc, but like, imagine ripping a hole into a wall, or taking a roof off
maybe if its structurally weak enough, turn an upper floor on its side

[shell sonnet]

maybe as like held action
the longer you hold, the greater the aoe

short hold and pull rips out small chunks violently
holding increases total strength but spreads it over a larger area, moving large chunks in 1 heavy, dragging motion?

[vocal stone]

Terminal attack felt like R6 with ADHD. I don't say it's bad, but it's counterintuitive to The Finals core gameplay imo

[last steeple]

Idk it had the tactical aspect of r6 BUT with the ttks of finals, and less bullshit like the drones etc..

It was fun

[broken mulch]

how are the drones bs

[last steeple]

I don't know r6 much so bs isn't the great word, what I meant is that finals is way less precise than r6

So the only real lookalike aspect is the tactical one but that's all

[broken mulch]

yea thats fair, finals ttks are way higher so gameplay ends up being faster and riskier cause u can do that without getting killed instantly

[vocal stone]

Breach drill was found in a dumpster

[livid cradle]

A few months ago, my aim just completely degraded, it was so weird I couldn’t play a single shooter game, it happened so suddenly I could genuinely put a date and aprox time on it. So I spent a couple of months playing different games: standee valley, dead cells, Minecraft ect. Then I decided to download delta force, and my aim was fixed. Idk what happened, my aim might have just got burnt out. So some advice for anyone suffering from degrading aim: play some other genres or take a break from games entirely. Training your aim at this point will only make it worse. Have fun(:

[shell sonnet]

:D

[alpine apex]

Try the fountain of youth. Otherwise embrace degration and have fun fam 👍

[cosmic oriole]

Skin idea collection for a music themed season (OC)
What do you guys think?

here's all the designs in as high quality as i can show!

[alpine apex]

I like the designs! Not sure if you could truly do an entire season dedicated since they already have some musical focused stuff across multiple seasons. But an LTM style event where these skins are simply in the store would appeal to a bunch of people I bet!

[cosmic oriole]

Thank you! That would be cool to see!

I tried my best to make a unique design for each weapon, so this short practice session ended up being more work that i expected lol

I was inspired by the FCAR and Sledgehammer music skins, and thought what if other weapons had music themed skins?

[alpine apex]

Yup! Lots of piano focused skins though. Would be funny to see more niche ones like a flute or a violin or something.

[cosmic oriole]

Actually, the Ivory Impact KS23 and the Grand Crescendo Cl-40 were meant to be the free and premium rewards for the seasons fictional battlepass!

The Grand Crescendo Cl-40 was meant to be a mythic but it didnt look interesting enough so it would still have the steam particles when firing

[unkempt moss]

I would love if winch only affected geometry/nonplayer

[cosmic oriole]

you mean structural items and arena carriables and stuff? idk lol

[unkempt moss]

Pretty much. Objectives as well.

[shell sonnet]

Actually awesome

[cosmic oriole]

Thank you!!

[shell sonnet]

Wait, did you not put them in fanworks yet?

[hushed garnet]

how should i deal with dual swords

[cosmic oriole]

not yet lol

[shell sonnet]

Smh do itttttttt

[cosmic oriole]

I put it in my misc finals concepts post

[shell sonnet]

Surely every cool idea deserves its own post?

[cosmic oriole]

That is true...

I put it in a separate post!

[shell sonnet]

How would people react to every cool idea they like individually

[shell sonnet]

:D

[muted condor]

Those are sick

[sudden pewter]

The cone they reflect is easy to get around the closer you are to them. Ironically it’s easiest to deal with by rushing them and essentially shooting their sides.

And as always, having a friend. Melee players can’t look in two different directions.

[hushed garnet]

ok

[pastel wyvern]

i feel like tracking dart would be used better on medium instead of light

[broken mulch]

Run away from them, if u hear them full sprint turn and shoot

Explosives in general also work

[muted condor]

Medium and heavy players hate this one simple trick

[cosmic oriole]

I had one for heavy players but I lost the image 💀

It was a heavy aiming the rpg at the light

[stoic garden]

today i played mesh ks double mines c4, couldn't stop laughing as everyone kept blowing up and getting sniped

i wanna take this to ranked but my fps drops below 50 after 5 minutes of mine gameplay

[candid vessel]

Almost like thats where it used to be

[candid vessel]

Can confirm this to be true

[broken mulch]

It’s really hard to justify using tracking dart even when ur using melee on light which is arguably where it’d be best

Not because it’s bad but because there are better options

[candid vessel]

Especially when its competing with sonars (which used to be on medium too tbf)

But they didn’t move them at the same time iirc

[broken mulch]

I’ve tried to make it work a bunch but h+ js makes more use out of the slot

Can’t play sword without goo and gate is js useful asf

[candid vessel]

Playing light without H+ is borderline throwing

[unkempt moss]

I suggested that tracking dart get moved as an alternate fire for bow by tapping reload. Having it go on a short cooldown after using.

[candid vessel]

I haven’t played light without H+ since season 6

[broken mulch]

Wasn’t h+ added in 7

I started playing s7 and I remember it being called new

[candid vessel]

I think it should track indefinitely until either the victim/user dies and not recharge until the tracking effect ends

[candid vessel]

Yes thats exactly my point

[unkempt moss]

Indefinitely might be a bit much.

[candid vessel]

If it had one charge and was on medium then i dont think so

[unkempt moss]

Oh i thought you meant on bow. You're just saying as a general change.

[violet knot]

shoutout to heavies who actually support, gotta be one of my favourite genders

oh shit this isn't finals chat 😭

[candid vessel]

Oh on bow that would be ridiculous

[candid vessel]

No theres more than enough brain cells to go around here, unlike that decrepit place

[stoic garden]

i love you too

[slender sedge]

Guess i have a loadout

[stoic garden]

what happened every 20 seconds to my enemies

[shell sonnet]

defibbed, low on ammo, still dangerous
if my teammate had shot them, a single bodyshot or meatshot with a shotgun mightve been enough

plenty enough situations like that
or just situations where my teammate is still fully alive and capable, because defib doesnt take long

[wild zenith]

i think healing on a gadget will never not be insanely powerful

because healing is always useful. did anyone on your team take damage? yes, then healing will be helpful

[shell sonnet]

i mean, i dont really mind emitter
dont see anyone else complain about it

depends on how its executed i guess

[wild zenith]

other gadgets are only useful in situations that come up semi infrequently

emitter is balanced because it is not instant, so you cannot use it in every situation that healing would be useful

[shell sonnet]

true

probably partially because you can shoot it as well

slow healing time, even if constant

[compact tundra]

I think what makes chuck ok when H+ isn't is the fact that it's post fight healing while H+ is mid fight healing. Heal beam is ok for mid fight support because it's a spec, but letting a gadget do mid fight healing is too impactful on the fight itself for a lower cost slot like a gadget slot. Emitter is ok cause it's post fight which isn't as useful and so a gadget slot is fine for it

[hazy hemlock]

H+ is a blight on the game and should have just been a stim shot like octane in apex that you could also inject to teamates instead of yourself if you chose to do so.(balanced to be a spec not a gadget obv)

[wild zenith]

crusaders crossbow

[hazy hemlock]

Or make it a heealing bomb like the healing barrels things we get in the arena

[wild zenith]

it would have to be pretty damn insane to be a light spec

[shell sonnet]

i think i might follow the "regen starter" crowd for infuser

dont like the idea of self application tho

[shell sonnet]

thats just a worse chuck, not a fan

[unkempt moss]

I will say the midfight healing of chuck on flame thrower feels like it jumps the thrower up a tier or two

[hazy hemlock]

... h+ is way to strong and a must pick on light and for that reason I hate it. Truly no nerfs will make it bad unless they gutted it and I thing gutting things is bad to.

[compact tundra]

I agree, I think if H+ was a 2-4 shot pistol that started your teammates health Regen it'd be good but fair. Slow heal time that requires safety to work but still can be used mid fight if played well since it doesn't lock you down like emitter does.

[hazy hemlock]

Also it can be worse chuck its not like heavy would have it

[compact tundra]

I've found it to be reasonable tho. I'm not a big chuck user outside of weird shit like mgl but I think even mid fight it's not impactful enough to be a problem

[unkempt moss]

With thrower I feel like the 20 health it provides mid fight is enough to shift breaking points to where you survive and they don't.

[shell sonnet]

that was just about the concept of healing mist (like canisters) as a gadget, not h+ itself

[compact tundra]

That's fair, but that's also a tight threshold so not game breaking imo

[compact tundra]

Oh also GooKing did you ever write up that goufo patch summary?

[hazy hemlock]

Speaking of the modern gamer is insufferable and all most know how to do is play victim why are we just pretending med dont have zipline, floating plat, and Shockwave. OR that this game has more movement than every other shooter out rn. Heavy has more movement than even most hero shooter dps characters

[shell sonnet]

dont think it should be higher than 2
allows too much margin for error
like, if you shoot someone with it, and they get hit, that was their chance and they blew it

2 shots gets a pass because its 1 for each teammate

[unkempt moss]

And your movement becomes more valuable because chuck gains more value with each bullet that misses you. I think chuck is in a prefect place.

[unkempt moss]

I did start on it yes.

[hazy hemlock]

Ahhhh fair. I was saying maybe coulda had bombs that make a slightly stronger healing mist instead of h+ on light. Sadly its to late. I dont even know how tou would nerf h+ without making it basically unusable

[shell sonnet]

well, regen-starter

dont see much wrong with it

potential to be somewhat good, but not as abuseable

[compact tundra]

Huge, I'm excited to read it whenever you can finish it

[compact tundra]

But also Regen is pretty slow so I think some wiggle room is good. Ultimately I think the bullet count should be something that is solved through play testing rather than the concept itself tho

[shell sonnet]

maybe instant 40, then regen?

[hazy hemlock]

Yeah. H+is just to much. I truly forsee them in the future saying fuck it and dropping a hard rework for it

[shell sonnet]

we need a rework season so bad

pointless, but i kinda wanna make a wishlist now

[last steeple]

I mean since it already heals faster and more often than the beam with a bigger range, it could take a healing nerf and still be good

[hazy hemlock]

It would still be a must have though. Ya know?

Like so strong your throwing by not having it

Your 100% correct tho it can take a healing nerf

[unkempt moss]

Do it

[last steeple]

Ehh you're not wrong

I think nerfing it and buffing weak gadgets might help but ye

[shell sonnet]

i wonder how common my opinion on downbalancing is

[last steeple]

Thankfully this gadget is at least fun to use

[hazy hemlock]

Dont think that helps tbh if you buff some other stuff more itll be broken h+ is just that strong.

Speaking of strong. Why is it that every dogshit player stays tryina convince people that Pyro nade ISNT one of the worst gadgets in the game.

[shell sonnet]

then you just have multiple really strong options, widen the gap between classes, and get power creep

[hazy hemlock]

My concern is the power creep overall lmao. I just wish h+ didnt exist😂

[last steeple]

I feel like there's a wayyy, maybe way more healing and way 'ess often can make it balanced

[shell sonnet]

uuuuh, hope that i didnt come across wrong

what i wrote was meant to show i agree with you

[last steeple]

I also feel like some light gadgets like the vortex needs something to compete with infuser so the meta becomes more various

[hazy hemlock]

Nono your good im piggybacking off what you said lol we 100% agree

[shell sonnet]

not everything can be stronger, but everything can be weaker
so id rather shift everything down to average and slightly underpowered, rather than strong/overpowered

that way, more items like dagger and sword stay competetive (alongside making gadget usage/movement more impactful comparatively)

[hazy hemlock]

Just get rid of the activation delay on vortex. Tbh its what I ran before h+ was added

[last steeple]

Would it actually be enough? Maybe just make it a nade at ts point OR if they wanna keep the trap aspect, make it harder to break or idk

[unkempt moss]

Downbalancing?

[shell sonnet]

id be interested to see what would happen if vortex could destroy deployables

sadly its usage for clearing cashouts falls flat because it then prevents the steal

[unkempt moss]

I saw your next message. I understand now

[shell sonnet]

idk what else to call it

just nerfing strong options over buffing weak ones

[hazy hemlock]

Nah make it so you can instant activate. It is CC plus can make it so you can escape and traps into a shooting gallery If they try and steal allowing you to play much safer cuz you can just pop it and garuntee a kill if they push cashout

[shell sonnet]

still curious to see an actual black hole mechanic, where it eats and grows

[unkempt moss]

I think its not a bad way of doing it. Its consistent which makes it more efficient.

[last steeple]

I don't like this either, well it avoids powercreep so it's not a bad thing BUT if they then forget the weak gadgets it's pointless,

[shell sonnet]

ofc push weak stuff up as well
we arent playing toothpick stabbing simulator

but overall, more nerfing, less buffing

i have no clue what they were hoping for with hover pad

or am i just not seeing it?

[last steeple]

Oh that's what you want, it's already happening eh, they are just too scared to touch what people use a lot (often meta gadgets) and it results in pointless nerfs

[hazy hemlock]

Honestly part of the issue rn is moreso that things are to weak. Most things are in a fine state but cuz other stuff is so weak its the obly useable option. Look at evasive dash. Its not a broken spec by any means, cloak used to be the meta, dash hasn't gottena single buff but cuz cloak got gutted dash is really the only meta relevant light spec. Grapple imo direly needs SOMETHING and atp cloak needs to ve replaced cuz there's no safe way to buff it without making it almost crippling cripplingly toxic

[last steeple]

I have the vision, they did terrible execution

[hazy hemlock]

Look at THE ENTIRETY OF MELEE

[unkempt moss]

For certain things the only way is down. Because you'll never push the efficacy of defib to be as weak as say pyro grenade.

[hazy hemlock]

The weakest gun beats the strongest melee weapon even in melee range

[shell sonnet]

eeeeeh, idk about that

[unkempt moss]

As soon as I saw it I didnt understand what niche it was supposed to fill

[hazy hemlock]

Maybe not hammer cuz one shot

[shell sonnet]

but melee could use some buffs
(fingers crossed for next season)

[last steeple]

The weakest gun nah, the average gun ye, if you have a decent aim

[hazy hemlock]

Jump pad+ hover pad free cover/escape. Also place mines on it above the point when they steal drop it on their dome and go boom

[stoic garden]

what's the weakest gun?

[candid vessel]

Pike

[stoic garden]

pike might lose to melee because of the shitty hipfire ig, but at any other range it just sweeps before they have a chance to come

[shell sonnet]

actually nah, we forgot about mgl32 🥲

[candid vessel]

Also the hammer is literally unplayable if ur opponents have even half decent weapons

[hazy hemlock]

Thats not a gun

[candid vessel]

I mean you asked what the worst gun in the game was and its definitely the pike

[hazy hemlock]

I agree I just was covering my ass incase someone came in sayin if the hammer one shots etc.

[unkempt moss]

RS what would you be looking to focus on for your design doc?

[shell sonnet]

uuuuh, the rework wishlist?

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. I assumed you meant like GOUF patch

[candid vessel]

Only some smooth brain lvl 14 fcar user would argue that the hammer is good

[shell sonnet]

not sure what you mean
mind explaining rq? im dense

[unkempt moss]

So my rework wishlist is presented like a 2.0 patch. It's a sweeping rebalance and redistribution of the entire game with explanations

[hazy hemlock]

😂😂😂 they will stay tryina argue melee is good when its not

[shell sonnet]

yeah, basically wanna do that

but no real focus

just 1 pass, see what might work

[shell sonnet]

hey, nice

[unkempt moss]

You gotta have a legit cover

[candid vessel]

Or anything that isn’t an ar/smg

[shell sonnet]

nah, screw that

[compact tundra]

Oh shit....
That's fucking rad man

[shell sonnet]

what should i call mine...

[shell sonnet]

what does GOUF mean?

[tall cipher]

what is the lewis gun even good for.

[unkempt moss]

GooKing's Official Ultra Fun (Balance Patch)

[hazy hemlock]

Me staring at the famas which has never been less than a top 5 gun in the game go unmentioned because it gets overshadowed by another medium gun every season(this isn't a. Complaint its my go to on medium its just weird how noone ever brings up how good it is)

[shell sonnet]

uuuuh, different flavor of deep ammo damage

i might just have to move some medium long range damage to other classes, causing me to get quatered

[hazy hemlock]

.... more range than shak in exchange for a bit are dmg? Idk lmao

I use deagles on heavy so.

[tall cipher]

i feel like the m60 just ovr shadows it

[eager wasp]

other way around

[shell sonnet]

❌ ?
i felt similarly

[unkempt moss]

I think thats fine. My BFR changes keep the sniper status of it while giving it some up close bite. With GOUF I opened up a lot of stuff thats not meant for classes to share like movement, invis, and range to all of them.

[tall cipher]

idk. maybe i just like m60 from playing vietnam war games

[muted condor]

Mini gun is all that really matters

[tall cipher]

it takes so long to spin up though

[candid vessel]

Because akm and fcar are both op

[compact tundra]

Lewis gun is all around better than the m60 if you hit your shots and place them well, but the M60 is far more forgiving and easier to use so gets more value by itself. I think both are in great spots with the lewis gun overall being better since it's more versatile range wise and has better damage but the M60 is a better brawlers weapon and has better sustain

[candid vessel]

Then keep it spun up

[hazy hemlock]

Shhhh the "victim class" gonna pull up and tell you how your just bad and they are an oppressed minority

[tall cipher]

and the m60 has more bullets so you can go longer without reloading

[candid vessel]

Yeah shit my fault

[compact tundra]

That's sustain, the M60 does have better sustain but if you aren't missing your shots the lewis will be better

[tall cipher]

but then yu can't reposition easily from gas fire whatnot

[candid vessel]

Yeah u can u just gotta learn how to move with it

[muted condor]

Only nerds reposition. Just fully commit and if you lose blame your team

[unkempt moss]

What if XP to Med, P90 to Hvy

[hazy hemlock]

ERM A SWORD GOT CLOSE TO ME AND KILLED ME MEDIUM IS TO WEAK. WHO CARES THAT I HAD FCAR AND POOR AIM, AND JUMP PAD, AND GOO ITS THE GAMES FAULT FOR LETTING LIGHTS EXIST DELETE THE CLASS. MATTER FACT WHY IS THERE A HAMMER IN MY FPS ITS A SHOOTER.

[hazy hemlock]

LOWKEY. ON THE LOWEST KEY

[candid vessel]

Every other post on the Reddit is idiots complaining that medium is weak rn 😭😭

[hazy hemlock]

On the DEEPEST LOW KEY

[hazy hemlock]

Brother I came across this and closed social media

[unkempt moss]

I think it kinda works.

Then all classes have an SMG.

Its going on the patch.

[hazy hemlock]

Xp has 0 identity on light cuz arn was added its in a state where its not gonna be used or its gonna be OP. P90 does kinda feel more like a heavy weapon as well

[unkempt moss]

Its the giant mag

[candid vessel]

Idk why tf people wanted another rapid fire medium weapon

[unkempt moss]

Feels like cerb, where it acts like a heavy weapon on another class

[muted condor]

10 more mid range autos before we get a unique weapon

[candid vessel]

PLEASE NO I BEG

[unkempt moss]

Revolver was on light originally right?

[stoic garden]

20 more micro nerfs to cl40 until it becomes basically a weaker ks

[unkempt moss]

Jump pad to light, zip medium, and Gateway to heavy

Feelings?

[candid vessel]

Are you joking or not i cant tell

[candid vessel]

Honestly i feel like keeping things as they are but adding zip to heavy and ball to medium without removing them from the original builds would be nice

[unkempt moss]

I thought someone told me revolver was on light in the beta

[candid vessel]

Im 99% sure thats a lie

[unkempt moss]

I thought it would be interesting to have a weapon like that on light.

But the TTK is probably too high

[last steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-lh1-shooter-gameplay-finals-gif-16503576786565163441

Only gif I found, terrible gif to represent the situation but I think ttk wise light already has some nice weapons

So light class having something like the revolver wouldn't be a problem if it needs a lot of skill

[candid vessel]

LH1 back in the day was even more fun than it is now, despite the irons being ass. Whole game was ngl

[last steeple]

Understandable but we might be biased by nostalgia

[candid vessel]

I mean i just hate reverse powercreep

[unkempt moss]

Partly. But its also that they've slowly been removing things that were considered problematic. But being overpowered is fun a lot of the time.

[candid vessel]

And i miss when most people didn’t know fire got rid of gas so gas wasn’t useless, and nukes, and being able to carry 2 of like everything

[last steeple]

Like, ofc game was peak at the times, but it still is, and the core mechanics of the game are still there, we can make so many off meta loadouts work, and there's even more options than before, some of the gadgets we used to love got nerfed, and some gadgets have an non replaceable place in the meta, but we can still do so many things, we can have w movement, and w chaos, the finals is still the finals, we might also be more sweaty and meta focused now, but if you forget allat and remember to have fun, there's a lot of things to discover and to master still

I did an unstructured brick about my opinion on the game

Looks like I'm glazing tf but ofc embark took bad decisions too

[candid vessel]

The game is still good and i still love it but it feels watered down compared to how it was

[last steeple]

At least shock is back omg

[candid vessel]

Imo the bad decisions outweigh the good ones. But not by a huge amount. The addition of sights/sponsor tracks was peak

S4 as a whole saved the game ibsr

[unkempt moss]

Sandbox is losing sand, but the toys are still in working condition

[shell sonnet]

zip to heavy purely for the fact i want to rp as gunner from drg

[candid vessel]

Im amazed it was actually a shadow nerf and not a bug. Because you lose a level of trust that you can never truly get back

[last steeple]

Nah it's overall gaining sand but a lot of the sand you like got blown away 😔

[last steeple]

But was it ? Like they removed the tech on purpose okay, but it affected shockwave even when not doing those techs, was ts on purpose too ??

[shell sonnet]

got a rough working for rework on items now
still gotta do events tho

[candid vessel]

I mean it was a deliberate change that they didn’t mention anywhere, so even if nerfing its base movement was an accident its still a shadow nerf

[last steeple]

I actually hope they'll do another gameshow-focuded season soon

[candid vessel]

Im sick of all these historical seasons icl

[last steeple]

I mean they won't mention something they don't even know it happened

[last steeple]

I love em, but when I listen to S1 osts again, I miss the gameshow feeling, still very present, but something is missing

[candid vessel]

Yeah but they were trying to nerf the tech w jump pad. I swear they admitted that in the patch where it was reverted. At the time of the initial change there was no mention of “we’re nerfing the combined power of pad and shockwave”

[last steeple]

I really liked S6 too and ofc s4

[last steeple]

Yeah true maybe, that's sad 😔

[candid vessel]

S1/S4/S7 are like S+ tier to me

[shell sonnet]

actually wait, peak idea?

[shell sonnet]

got a rough draft for specials, gadgets and weapons now

still gotta do events since i want those

[unkempt moss]

I want gateway so I can throw it for the Slam on CnS. It also fits rhe heavy role plans i have in GOUF more.

[unkempt moss]

What items do you have on the docket

[shell sonnet]

a sec, flowing ideas for events rn

[shell sonnet]

put every item on there, but not all get changes

want all of the ones with changes?

btw, i recently got into revolver
the crouch hipfire is kind of stupid

[unkempt moss]

I have to take care of something. Hold on to it until I can properly respond

[shell sonnet]

alrighty

[last steeple]

Didn't get to play much in S7, like I didn't finish the pass, but it was indeed fire with w additions

[last steeple]

Since it makes you in a pretty weak position it's alright I'd say, you need to use hipfire without missing every shots

[shell sonnet]

open question
what would we think about moving platforms that are basically 90° to what they are now, just going around a small area of the map?
basically small, indestructible, but moving cover

[last steeple]

I also tried revolver only for two weeks and it's so cooooll, now I'm back on tk's I js like light and the tks more

[shell sonnet]

not replacement, as varient

[last steeple]

Maybe it just would be even worse to defend than it already is

Or it would loose it's original point

If it mooves but not much, I like the Idea tho

Difficult to judge without trying

[shell sonnet]

welp
the other 2 ideas i had were a merry-go-round, just a continous line moving in a circle around an area

and a ferris wheel of them (<--- might be ass to melee)
(also rather limited on where, thinking of apartments on seoul? maybe behind the mall?)

needs to be accessible, and cant religate players to target practise

[shell sonnet]

why defib cant ever really be bad the way it is now

6 seconds of utter vulnerability
which leaves plenty of time for an attentive enemy to follow, find, and get massive damage on you, if not outright kill you
even if you do waste time by running away and hiding during it, to gain whatever slight safety you can afford in the hopes of making up for a mistake the enemy would otherwise snowball off from

vs

1 second behind cover, during which you could bunny hop to avoid shots if they even see you in time

under normal circumstances, you would never get a revive without killing the one watching the statue first

eliminations may only be the means to an end, but if your number advantage means there wont be anybody left to defend it, you win

[wild zenith]

what are the practical differences between gas nade and pyro nade?

other than the obvious fire removes gas

[floral wigeon]

gas grenade has a larger area and damage ramps up over time and pyro grenade does nothing except counter gas

[eager wasp]

people tend to bring more fire items to counter the gas than they do pyro, but gas covers more ground and can better go through walls

[shell sonnet]

i actually find pyro to be better for going through walls, since it sticks and gets full aoe

[shell sonnet]

instant deploy on impact pyro vs bounce gas technically

[bitter surge]

Genuinely can’t believe they have NOT touched the M11 till now

[shell sonnet]

whats your problem with it?

[tall cipher]

i hope it doesn't get nerfed

[wild zenith]

people havent largely complained about it till recently

[restive garnet]

youre not good for getting ruby with sa1216 ( auto win gun)

[tall cipher]

what is the r93 even do its god but i see no specific sutuation or purpose for it

[indigo nexus]

Gosh, the wiki is awful at defining the properties of a weapon that make it good or bad

[indigo nexus]

There’s no other weapon that is super similar. Nothing else on light has a similar burst damage profile, and it’s especially good against lights

It’s sort of similar to the revolver I suppose. The main difference is due to how managing bursts feels and practically plays out compared to single fire and the different headshot multiplier, in most other regards they’re pretty damn similar guns

[tall cipher]

all it gives me is stuff like dmg, range, dmg dropoff no actual details

[indigo nexus]

Those are a lot more useful than the “guide” sections which often just contain nonsense sentences

Check out this wikislop

[eager wasp]

buts its a difficult weapon to play

[tropic sage]

It's W+M1

[tardy light]

wiki completely ignores that throwing knives have airborne accuracy for rmb but not for lmb. just uses a catchall phrase

[eager wasp]

when you simplify it down like that sure

[indigo nexus]

“smoother animations”, haha

a sledge user can chase players significantly faster than a spear user can thanks to its much better lunge

At least they fixed the info on how the spin attack works, it used to be flat out misinformation last I checked

[unkempt moss]

Alright. Hit me with your rework list.

[shell sonnet]

just a sec
also, its not like fully fledged reworks

wishlist

cant find it, im oupid

;-; it may not have saved

it gone

explodes

[unkempt moss]

All good.

[shell sonnet]

no

[slow linden]

Better luck next time ig?

[shell sonnet]

not good

[slow linden]

All bad?

[unkempt moss]

Things come and go in life. Some faster than others.

[shell sonnet]

evil computer magic

[tardy light]

RIP RS___C rework wishlist 🙏

[shell sonnet]

my 15 minutes of work ;_;

[slow linden]

Can this event go sooner I NEED my alfa acta flamethrower 😫🤤

[tardy light]

aw thats not too bad

[shell sonnet]

mostly being silly, but still

[tall cipher]

is there4 a way to veiw the last match you played and save it

[shrewd warren]

If you use something like OBS, Medal, or the Steam Replay feature then yeah.

[unkempt moss]

Did you ever come to a solid final answer to buffing turret?

[old flame]

these wiki guides were written in like season 2 and are free to edit just saying

[somber tiger]

The wiki also calls the throwing knives a "silent weapon"

[tardy light]

They’re silent if they hit the enemy ig

[shell sonnet]

no, just the lethal company thing

[slow linden]

Replace the turrets fcar with a minigun

[shell sonnet]

somewhat related

[slow linden]

I'm aware,lethal companies turret Only sees you when you move,but ehhh I don't know how I feel about that,would be a good change for motion sensors though or sonar

[compact tundra]

Alright boys I'm on my bi-yearly castle building binge again. The snowy village is coming along nicely I'd say. Ignore the ugly ass lake it's a placeholder I don't wanna put the work in to figure out how to make it look better

If you like any of the buildings in particular, all of them have signs crediting whatever tutorial I watched to build them and most are tutorial builds so I can send a link to the tutorial

[shell sonnet]

dangerous misinformation
ill trade your body to the local lootbugs in exchange for a key

[slow linden]

If I'm wrong tell me why I'm wrong because my only experience with lethal company is playing it once for my cousin while he took the trash out

[shell sonnet]

turret locks onto you when it sees you, tracks you while charging, then bursts wherever it ended up looking when its done charging
technically until youre dead, but you dont see that a lot

nutcrackers only shoot if they see you move tho

[slow linden]

I see

[shell sonnet]

seems it can maybe change course during shooting?
but whatever

[slow linden]

So for these ai changes to turret to be good it would have to be strong enough to nearly instantly vaporize a heavy

Which as a heavy main id probably be fine with

[shell sonnet]

did i ever show you my post on it?

[slow linden]

No,I don't believe so

[slow linden]

I have one critique,I like it,I really do

I think berserk mode should have friendly fire,reduced friendly fire,but still friendly fire

To prioritize your heavy bringing barricades or dome

[shell sonnet]

dont think we will get friendly fire
i see reasons for doing it
but i doubt they would add it *specifically for this

(also only incetivises 2-3 items)

+trolling would go crazy

[slow linden]

It's more of an incentive to not hug your turret too much

[shell sonnet]

actually might need to take care of the wall phasing bug if we do make it stronger/add berserk

[slow linden]

Wall phasing?

[shell sonnet]

self damage seems somewhat realistic to add

btw, what do you think of allowing grenades to pass through dome

[shell sonnet]

I mean, could give the dome ball explosion resistence
I just wanna be able to pressure people out of it

The vast majority of attacks will still be blocked as usual

[random depot]

what would be the point of glitch then

[shell sonnet]

Still does everything else

• it pops it for hitscan and instantly, while nades can be avoided

[unkempt moss]

Before they nerfed it again I had said that gas/fire should detonate on contact with dome to add some counterplay.

So they still get the benefit of the shield but they need to play it differently.

[shell sonnet]

I also had a different idea for dome but i dont wanna catch beef this late

[unkempt moss]

I think consensus was that direct counterplay was bad for the game and the EDF thinks baseline changes are better.

[unkempt moss]

Nah what is it? Even if the thought terminators show up just ignore them.

[shell sonnet]

Mentioned before, just gonna reframe it slightly

Instead of blocking bullets, dome should turn the bullets into digitized copies, that deal 5% of the original damage
While dome takes the other 95%

Changes nothing except that a heavy on 1 hp cant cheese a fight

[unkempt moss]

I see. Thats interesting. Almost like a Dune personal shield where its slowing everything down a ton. I cant remember exactly how it works.

[shell sonnet]

Maybe thats like, a neat idea for a new gadget tho

Would pair well with damage gadgets/mgl

Like, if they cant get digitized

But idk if adding even more of an edge to heavy survivability will break the game

[unkempt moss]

Could be an interesting niche for projectile weapons.

[shell sonnet]

Rn, you either cant shoot back with mesh, or do with dome

Adding a 2nd passive layer might be nuts

Now that i think about it, in that sense dome is actually better than mesh

[unkempt moss]

True.

This is one of those things where I think energy weapons could have a cool niche in interacting with shields like that.

[shell sonnet]

I feel like there is an idea to be had somewhere

What if there was a mirror that just bounced bullets?

[unkempt moss]

Or we can just nerf shield health like usual

[unkempt moss]

I thought a Vortex shield similar to TF1 would be fun.

Then theres some down time to it.

[shell sonnet]

Isnt ray tracing like really taxing?
Probably not then

Cant have something that is fucked with by graphics so much
cough cough cloak

[slow linden]

Not a fan

[slow linden]

Vortex shield/gravity gun spec for heavy please 🤤😫

[cosmic oriole]

vaiiya themed glitch grenade concept test

[slow linden]

Dome is fine where it is

[slow linden]

I want a laser mining drill weapon for heavy

[slow linden]

It'd fit the universe too

[unkempt moss]

Careful.

[slow linden]

Why

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-12450451651611168773

[kindred gorge]

More server issues than normal or is my WiFi just sucking again

Since I forgot main chats are not sociable

[unkempt moss]

Its probably yours since its worse than usual. The servers are pretty consistent in how bad they are.

[zinc obsidian]

Can we just get a claymore sword for the Heavy please. It fit so well and makes sense with the armor knight outfits

[slow linden]

Eu servers

[kindred gorge]

I would agree but there is frequently issues where they have to publicly tell people they screwed up and finally fixed it

And my teammates are having it too which is usually not the case

[unkempt moss]

You know your situation better than I, so it could very well be the case that they are dumpster tonight.

[kindred gorge]

We met a revolver player who was killing people during defib I frames and went 14 and 1

And when I say during I mean the millisecond they picked up

[bitter surge]

It’s too good that 95% of the lights only play it

[kindred gorge]

VirtualRival

[bitter surge]

Deserves tho

[peak monolith]

FUCK NO IT'S MINE I'M THE ONLY ONE THAT USES IT ANYWAYS

keep your heal smg

[slow linden]

Do not allow parasites to pollute the body,kill infuser,kill defib,kill winchclaw

[slow linden]

You are sick,I cannot help you if you refuse the cure

Those three things are blights upon this games balance

[peak monolith]

If I wanted this game to be a tac shooter maybe

[compact tundra]

Crane 👍

[slow linden]

It wouldn't make it a tac shooter

[pastel wyvern]

yes more minecraft in my the finals server please 🔥🔥🔥

[slow linden]

Build a finals map in minceraft for the funny

[peak monolith]

Does anyone have a chart for the updated reshaper order

[empty vortex]

whats a good crosshair? i just have a crosshair like the ones you would use while playing cs2, it has a gap and thats all but i see people use those really thin gapless crosshair it kinda seems better but idk what do yall think?

[shell sonnet]

Last thing i remember, it the had the acronym poggers

But thats probably not all too helpful becausse idr the order rn 😅

[cerulean furnace]

Updated Reshaper order? Hasn't been changed to my knowledge no? Should still be Red -> Grey -> Orange -> Green -> Blue -> Cyan -> Red
Atleast that's what I am used to since I do that rotation a lot

wait I forgot about Goo. I barely reshape that

Red -> Grey -> Goo -> Orange -> Green -> Blue -> Cyan -> Red

[hardy dust]

Infuser and winch for sure but defib aint too bad recentlt

I still think it shouldn't have iframes

[slow linden]

The fact that it has I frames and you can't kill people while they're printing is bad

[hardy dust]

Thats why I think the iframes should be removed

Shooting the ghost to deny res seems a bit much

But defib is a lot weaker if infuser gets gutted

Which it should, so that indirectly nerfs defib

[alpine sphinx]

Defib would still be meta even with I frames removed and a shootable hologram.

Any way to bring an extra gun back into the fight (alternatively as a temporary shield if it had HP) will always and forever be one of the best gadgets in the game

[cerulean furnace]

Removing the iframes from the Defib sounds good enough. They're not gonna kill Defib, but I wouldn't mind if they try nerfing the iframes and see how it shakes out

[icy egret]

I had a dream about The Finals last night.

It was very interesting. I had the Akimbos and I was killing loads of people. Very fun.

[cosmic oriole]

Reshaping 🗣️🗣️

[limpid flicker]

put it on a nokia

[hardy dust]

Yeah, I don't expect them to not be meta

I think a small nerf to nudge it down a little bit would be fine

I think they're fine being meta as long as you aint chaining them or insta healing them with infuser

[icy egret]

They really hate you when you're minigun and you're also good at the game. All 3 of my deaths there were specifically people hunting for me specifically with minigun counters.

Eugh.

[lament kraken]

2 suggestions make the glitch grenade stop dematerializer or add in a new grenade/gadget that can dematerialize or rematerialize with one use that acts similar to either the vanishing bomb or nullifier

[coral meadow]

Cosmetic Suggestion: New XP-54 Weapon SkinWeapon: XP-54 (Light Class SMG)Visual Theme Request: I want to see a brand-new high-quality skin added for the XP-54 that stands out from what we currently have. I'm looking for a unique aesthetic with cool material textures, or even a reactive element that glows or changes as I get eliminations throughout a match.Animation Ideas: I would love for this skin to feature a custom reload or a unique weapon inspect animation.Why this fits: The XP-54 is one of my favorite and most-used weapons for the Light build. The art team always crushes it with cosmetics, and adding another top-tier choice for this SMG would be a huge hit in the store.

[brisk vessel]

what are the specific minigun counters

[swift agate]

1 (one) micrometer of cover

if their pinky toe is behind a wall, your dps goes bye bye

also range, SR and repeater are big counters

slow firing weapons even close do better against minigun because they can corner peak much easier

[candid vessel]

Sounds like season 4

[icy egret]

There aren't any I would say specific but Sonar is oppressive against it because you're already slower than even a normal heavy and focus fire. You can't escape ever if you're being targeted like that, but that wasn't what was happening. Dive really affects it as well, 2 of my deaths there were to letting my guard slip for a second and getting instantly shredded by an M11, the other one was Cereberus immediately dumping all 3 shells into my woolly ass. Corner peaking is also effective like Password said, you can perform surprisingly decent at range with ADS but any actual ranged weapon is just going to shred you and you can't fight it if they know how to play around cover. No burst means it also sucks at corner peaking.

[candid vessel]

Sniper

[icy egret]

Burst and range are the Minigun's bane. Hah.

I'm usually pretty good at mitigating the ranged part but sometimes you just die to burst and it is how it is.

[candid vessel]

Dying to a cerb as a heavy in general is kinda difficult ibsr

[icy egret]

If I were full health, yes.

I wasn't, but that isn't the main point there. The point is that burst tends to be effective against it.

[swift agate]

diving? sonar? I think you might be playing minigun wrong if those are your weaknesses. minigun is phenomenal against dives so long as you're aware of your surroundings, and sonar is effectively null and void because everybody knows where you with constant loud revving are most of the time anyway

[icy egret]

I can imagine that in Cashout. I play Point Break mostly.

It gets masked a lot by the chaos of point break and it's easier to let your guard down.

[candid vessel]

That makes it completely different then

[icy egret]

Again, that one was my bad.

[candid vessel]

Nw

[icy egret]

Corner-peaking and range-burst are most effective, Cerberus there was def an outlier.

I just have a annoyed opinion of Sonar. Sonar feels very, very strong in Point Break but it won't get toned down because it's not as good in Cash Out. Such is the way of life in The FInals.

[swift agate]

well the issue with that is it's even better in constant chaos because you just stay revved up and shoot anything that moves. it's pretty easy to not let your guard down when there is no down time. cashout gets tricky because you have to be on the move a lot, and minigun forces you to choose whether to be moving or fighting, but point break simplifies that heavily because 90% of your time is spent at one of a few static objectives where you carry out long extended teamfights, an environment the minigun is quite strong in

[candid vessel]

You can move at like 80-90% of sprint speed w minigun if you get the movement down

[icy egret]

I agree. The minigun generally does well at that. I'm talking about this in a way that burst like that is the only thing that tends to kill me if I'm playing prepared.

[icy egret]

I've been practicing this too. It's a skill I've also carried over from being a heavy main in TF2.

[swift agate]

juggling is a great skill to learn, it makes minigun the one weapon that actually benefits from low grav lol

[icy egret]

The Minigun in this game has a few different quirks like your minigun stays partially revved after getting your movement back.

It also has a similar ramp-up system after revving. Damage increases the longer you're revved until you're at your for bullet shooting capabilities.

These are just things I've thought I've noticed while using it though, feel free to correct me.

[candid vessel]

Nah theres a few that benefit from low grav. All the slower semi autos definitely do.

[icy egret]

I find jump revving very fun.

[candid vessel]

SR84 in low grav is the best icl. Having zero mid air accuracy penalty is great

[candid vessel]

Yeah it makes the simple act of going places more interesting

[icy egret]

It also minimizes the risk of being so open. What I find ridiculous though is that other weapons have higher DPS than the Minigun. What do you mean the M11 does more damage than the Minigun? A bit of Whiplash from TF2.

Where my 500 DPS isn't really matched ever but it's still balanced because of other conditions.

[swift agate]

m11 does not have higher dps than a minigun

[candid vessel]

Yh i just did the math its like 266.6 recurring to 275

[swift agate]

factoring in for rev up and bullet spread, you will be doing less damage than an m11 in many situations, but that's because you're a 350hp beheamoth and they're a 150hp mouse. if you want light dps on heavy, you have to work for it

[icy egret]

True.

I do see that aspect of that.

[icy egret]

Ah. Excuse me then, I looked at the wiki briefly and must've looked at the headshot DPS.

[candid vessel]

I mean if ur getting jumped without the gun revved up thats kinda on you because its not difficult to keep it basically fully spun up all the time

[candid vessel]

I get the numbers from the wiki and just do the maths myself ngl

[swift agate]

right, it just takes a bit more awareness to not get caught with your pants down, which is a small price to pay for doing m11 level damage on the most tanky class in the game

[candid vessel]

Also just realised the headshot multiplier on the minigun is 1.33 according to the wiki

I thought it was 1.25 on account of everyone telling me thats what it was recently

[swift agate]

yeah, minigun has a lower headshot multiplier than every other weapon because like... obviously. hitting headshots with the literal bullet hailstorm gun isn't a difficult thing to do

[candid vessel]

I mean if you know that theres enemies around close to you somewhere you just keep it spun up. Simple.

[candid vessel]

Im so glad it exists because it makes headshot contracts so easy. There was one for 150 headshots a few weeks ago and i got 83 in one quick cash match

[swift agate]

hell, in close situations, the bullet spread helps your dps more than it hurts it because you're hitting a lot of headshots without needing to really aim for the head

though minigun heavies still tend to underestimate the value of headshots tbh. I've won countless minigun duels because we were both really close and I just aimed for their face rather than center mass. it isn't something you want to do outside of spitting distance because the spread will make you miss more shots than it's worth, but you absolutely should do it within spitting distance

though every class on most every weapon is already boned if they make the mistake of being that close to you, except for a riot shield or a dual blades

[icy egret]

I love this term, "bullet hailstorm".

I find this gameplay... Fun.

[icy egret]

I aim for the head anyways. 3 extra damage on those few extra headshots matter than you would think.

You generally lose out to someone who consistently hits headshots.

Like the Lewis out-DPSs Minigun headshots vs. Bodyshots, if both have perfect aim.

[icy egret]

I feel like doing winch again now. Does winch still allow you to stay revved up?

[swift agate]

I'm not sure, I do know getting winched allows you to stay revved

[candid vessel]

No

[swift agate]

after some practice range testing, it seems like it doesn't preserve rev, but it also doesn't cancel it. your minigun rev decays as it would if you let the button go for the time the winch lasts

that's important because it means a revved minigun user can still fire immedately after winching, wheras if it canceled rev, they would start from 0

[icy egret]

Oh, so it's as I remember. Thank you.

It does stop it but you can fire immediately.

[swift agate]

it just depends on how long the winch lasts, which mostly correlates to distance. winching a player close up is very quick, so you'd still be at nearly max rev, but a max range winch would leave you at the point where the minigun starts to fire slowly

that's better than having the grace period, but it's still pretty undesirable

this is actually pretty good unintentional balance of interaction, because it means you can't make up for your lack of range with winch for free the same way you can on an SA12-16

[icy egret]

How it feels to be a minigun player sometimes.

Waiter, more kill theft please!

[empty vortex]

lol, its such a cool feeling gun tho

can you guys help me about this? i wanna play more like a support but idk if this is good never tried it

[icy egret]

Replace Breach Drill with Jump Pad or Zipline.

[empty vortex]

wouldnt retake and attack be hard then?

[broken mulch]

jump pad is infinitely more useful for attacking

can get ur whole team where they need to go vs mid destruction and a pretty much useless flash cause its so obvious

[empty vortex]

lol it wasnt obvious to me

thanks tho

[broken mulch]

its pretty loud so even in silver people can hear it and know to look away if they've ever encountered a breach drill
also if they dont look directly at it they only get partially flashed

i do think that if u dont wanna run hard meta then the most changeable gadget you have is goo

unfortunately medium just does not have alot of gadget variety unless ur js so good that it doesnt matter

[icy egret]

Sometimes I forget to look away because it's used so infrequently.

[broken mulch]

honestly i havent seen it this entire season

[candid vessel]

Yes that is how it works

[candid vessel]

Honestly breach drill should get 2 charges

[candid vessel]

Honestly playing medium without pad or zip is just as bad as leaving the defib behind imo

[last steeple]

Ehh dk, I'd like to see a remote instead so it has a different purpose as demat

[candid vessel]

Arguably worse depending on team composition

[candid vessel]

Thats a really good idea

[last steeple]

Not mine tbh, I've seen a lot of people asking for ts

[candid vessel]

Then all 3 classes would have a remote detonation cashout stalling gadget

[last steeple]

Yeahh it would be so cool

[candid vessel]

I dont blame them it would go hard

[candid vessel]

I got it to white in s7 and haven’t seen it since

Its really useful to use as a flashbang that doesn’t require you to swing the corner

Like putting it next to an open doorway then rushing after it goes off can be very effective

Its XP generation is absolutely horrendous tho

Idk why tf its not 50 on deploy + 50*opponents blinded

[broken mulch]

xp in the finals is a whole bunch of bs i used the pyro grenade like twice and its above gateway

[candid vessel]

You get 20xp per point of damage with it

[broken mulch]

and its got a shorter cd than gateway

i always use goo gate and h+ on my light and only goo is above pyro

i kinda wanna use the pyro grenade actually i never really gave it a fair chance once i started playing ranked

i know its kinda ass but now that i think of i havent used a damage gadget in ages

[candid vessel]

Its so underrated

[candid vessel]

Do we think rpg/cl40/mgl should get bonus damage on direct hits

Personally id love to see it

[indigo nexus]

CL-40 already does

MGL, no, I think that's too punishing when the weapon is designed for indirect fire.

RPG, I am neutral.

[unkempt moss]

Yes.

[glossy sun]

I think for MGL needs it.
(You do not know how many times my Grenade has bounced off someone)

[indigo nexus]

They said bonus damage on direct hits rather than detonation on direct hit, which two of the three there already do

[tame aspen]

WAMP wamp

[candid vessel]

Oh shit fr??

Thats cool

[candid vessel]

No all 3 of them do

[indigo nexus]

MGL doesn't detonate on a direct hit. It bounces off

[candid vessel]

Yes it does

I was surprised that it does but i promise you it does

[muted condor]

It doesn’t

[candid vessel]

I think it should on the basis that it travels so fast. Getting hit by a rocket is going to leave a mark even if it doesn’t explode

[candid vessel]

I swear it does

Ive hit people with it in like cqc situations and it detonates on contact with an enemy

[indigo nexus]

How recently did you notice this?

[candid vessel]

Like this season

Not that recently but definitely this season

[swift agate]

mgl does detonate on a second hit. usually when it seems like it explodes on a first direct, what actually happens is it bounces off the floor right under their feet and hits them on the same frame or within very few frames

[indigo nexus]

Maybe if a player is moving in the right way or it hits them in the right spot, it ends up bouncing into them immediately after the first hit?

[candid vessel]

Nah ive hit people like in the upper chest and its immediately exploded

[muted condor]

It does not

[candid vessel]

Ive seen it happen

[muted condor]

It blows up on the second hit

[swift agate]

I'd like to see some clips of this happening, because as far as I'm aware this is not possible

[muted condor]

You saw wrong then because it only explodes the second time it makes contact

[candid vessel]

Oh im going to get some

[muted condor]

This is literally the #1 talking point about the MGL 😂

Unless they changed it literally this week without adding it to the patch notes

I will say despite being the second worst heavy weapon it’s kinda underrated

[swift agate]

I think that mgl would be so much better if the projectile was given proper bounce physics rather than the jankfest that is despawning on contact and then spawning in a second projectile

[muted condor]

Half the time they stick to the floor for a full second and Iv seen the grenades straight up stick to the ground on the first bounce and not explode multiple times

No clue how they fucked up a feature that has been done perfectly fine in dozens of games for over 20 years but they did

[swift agate]

part of what makes it so unplayably bad is that even on a good connection, your pills will lag incessantly because they need to make unneccesary server calls instead of simply having a proper physics system handle their behaviour

tf2 did this right in 2007

[muted condor]

Stuff like that and the spear spin not dealing damage kinda prove that embark is lacking in quality devs

[candid vessel]

Okay theyve removed it. Now all my direct hits just go straight up and dont explode

[swift agate]

spear spin doesn't do consistent damage because its hitbox is just the spear itself and not the whole spin, so you have to wait until the actual spear sweeps exactly where the victim is in order to deal damage. this is technically more realistic, but it's very misleading because the visual design would lead you to believe the whole range of the spin is an active hitbox

spear would be far more viable if this was the case, because the last thing you want for your attack that locks you into an animation to deal damage in an area around you is for that attack to have the capacity to miss an enemy player in that area of effect

and also spin should obviously be cancelable

[muted condor]

I’m talking about pre fix when it would not deal damage if your near goo

[muted condor]

Also they can’t remove what wasn’t added

[swift agate]

ah I see

[somber tiger]

The Finals could be so much better if the devs looked at any successful non-competitive shooter made in the past 30 years

[unkempt moss]

Buy skin, shoot ar, watch state sponsored esport.

[candid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/1984-gif-19260546

[hoary wyvern]

fix sword lock still broken

[candid vessel]

I wish the ks23 did 110 damage so you could shift the breakpoints by 1 shot with a qm on all classes

Another cool thing that we’ll never see because winch probably

[unkempt moss]

That used to be the combo for it. Winch, KS, melee.

[indigo nexus]

because it'd make the quick melee too easy?

[unkempt moss]

People felt it was too strong/ easy.

[candid vessel]

Another weapon gimped by winch

[indigo nexus]

I really don't remember people considering the gun good when it came out

[candid vessel]

With winch yh

[unkempt moss]

I didn't say the gun was good. Just the combo.

The winch made it a guaranteed kill on light. Which is why they nerfed the damage of.

[candid vessel]

But like even with winch its still more work than just winching and hipfiring with a shak. Embark gotta fix that shit 2 seasons ago

[indigo nexus]

winch wasn't out at this point

OG KS-23 was interesting, since its damage falloff was the most gradual of anything in the game. I don't really know why falloff tends to be so steep here.

[candid vessel]

Yh i swear it got nerfed to 100 damage before s2 finished

[unkempt moss]

It probably did. I think winch damage got nerfed from 10 to 5 or something. So you couldn't get the 150.

I just remember the KS diehards losing their mind about it and the gun itself fell off the planet afterwards

[candid vessel]

In 3.1 they decreased it to 5 damage from 15

I had no idea it was 15 wtf were they thinking

[indigo nexus]

the die-hards got worked up over a 1 week period ending 🤔

[candid vessel]

If winch claw could only grab inanimate objects the entire game would be so much better man ;-;

[unkempt moss]

It was after it already had its damage nerfed to not have a QM combo in season 2. Then it lost a combo again in 3 with winch.

[indigo nexus]

I don't think there was anyone who cared that passionately about the KS-23 2 weeks after it launched, but I guess this doesn't matter at all

[candid vessel]

I remember using it like twice on launch day and putting it down until like last season

And started using it semi regularly this season because the cannon skin is sick

[unkempt moss]

I legitimately said something like "this is exactly the gun I want in the game" when it first came out. It was strong and destructive. Ive never been a QM combo guy though so its not a big deal to me.

The KS has been the most satisfying H weapon since it launched. Even when it is a pain in the ass to use

[candid vessel]

Id disagree if deagles weren’t so horrendously washed

[unkempt moss]

I suppose I could have been the only person on the planet that liked it that much but I'm not that unique.

I'd much rather have the gun shoot well than have a QM combo though.

[tardy light]

when it had inaccuracy on ads it felt horrible to me lol

[unkempt moss]

Yeah but when it lands it feels so good.

[tardy light]

Hmhmmmmhmmmmm gambling

[unkempt moss]

But Solar is much more in touch with this game, so he's probably right that almost no one cared or said anything after a week.

[candid vessel]

Why not have both. Mfs want a meta shakeup and then shoot me down whenever i suggest one

[unkempt moss]

This community is known for its reasonable and measured response to things after all

[candid vessel]

This is very true but also not helped by numerous “what the actual fuck are you doing” moments from embark over the years

[proven parcel]

I thought the akimbo are good at longer ranges cuz its dmg dropoff started at 34m until i realized its accuracy is garbage so its kinda misleading. Now i wonder if there are any sites that have the accuracy while moving jumping listed anywhere?

[candid vessel]

The accuracy is the reason they suck now. Its significantly worse than it was when they launched in S4

[proven parcel]

well okay but where do i see the values each weapon has?

[candid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-the-neat-part-you-dont-invincible-gif-27194608

[unkempt moss]

Solar probably has something with that information

[proven parcel]

In the last patch they mentioned these numbers is there really nothing that tracks this?

.50 Akimbo

Decreased max bullet dispersion when firing from the hip from 8 to 7.5, making the weapon slightly more accurate

Decreased the default hip fire dispersion when firing from the hip while standing from 2 to 1.8

Decreased the default dispersion when firing from the hip while moving from 2.6 to 2.2

[unkempt moss]

He's the raw information guy

[candid vessel]

Also all airborne accuracy penalties should be removed from the game imo

[tardy light]

full auto what level are your deagles?

[proven parcel]

nah i think its cool design space but it needs to be clearer right?

[candid vessel]

These are statistics ive literally never seen before and are listed nowhere i usually get information

[tardy light]

Those are in the patch notes.

[candid vessel]

6 and a quarter

[candid vessel]

Yh ik but they’re not like listed on the wiki or in game

[tardy light]

pls stop spreading misinformation then😔

[tardy light]

Wiki is community powered, you can add it if you want, embark could benefit from better stats in game though

[candid vessel]

In game its awful

[proven parcel]

for example i tried to get a feeling for this myself it seems to me ak is better while jumping compared to the famas or fcar but no where is this stated or implied and no wiki is tracking accuracy

[tardy light]

but anyways, deagles have had no accuracy nerfs since release

[candid vessel]

Bars convey zero accurate information without a labelled axes

[tardy light]

Yes there is jumping accuracy metrics you kinda have to just learn. Let’s bother solar to make a comprehensive list

[proven parcel]

how is this value so forgotten? it should be core data

[fluid bane]

at least they added headshot multipliers so i know that im doing 1.5x a white bar of damage

[tardy light]

The bars are really useless and so are the weapon descriptions

[unkempt moss]

@indigo nexus do you have anything tracking accuracy?

[proven parcel]

bars are always useless

[tardy light]

Bars are useful when they’re actually to scale with numbers lol

[tardy light]

Try lewis

But deagles and BFR are the two other good options at range, they just come with some downsides. Lewis is a good everything gun

[candid vessel]

No deliberate ones but they are definitely worse in either 8.0 or 8.3 they broke it by accident because theyve been noticeably terrible for months now and the friends who i sometimes play with noticed it too by themselves. I will admit that the other day when i said they broke them again because they felt even more off for 3 games i continued playing with them and they felt how they have for the past few months. But they’re 100% worse than they were in S4, and have been for some time.

[alpine sphinx]

M11 nerf when?

[proven parcel]

For example i have an issue with the chimera as it was kinda overlapping the p90 the p90 has higher dps but ttk is still kinda the same which is funny. The chimera however has great accuracy while airborne and while adsing airborne. I wish this accuracy would be communicated more clearly to the player

[unkempt moss]

In what way

[proven parcel]

their effective range is also very similar

[candid vessel]

The parts of the crosshair are noticeably further apart than they used to be

[neon barn]

i dunno
i wanna use something else

[candid vessel]

Probably never because its been 10 seasons overdue

[proven parcel]

it got nerfed recently?

[candid vessel]

Debatable

[alpine sphinx]

it literally didnt, it was buffed on the ranges it most frequently fights at

[candid vessel]

Its better at mid range and worse at long range

[proven parcel]

how?

[last steeple]

Use tks, be good and they'll be better

[candid vessel]

Falloff happens more slowly but goes on for longer, so its better between 10 and 18.7m, and worse past 18.7m

[neon barn]

already used them
i liked them

gotta make sure they hit the spot

[last steeple]

Continue then 😮

[tardy light]

Would you want me to believe you?

Like, your only support is “feels that way to me.”

Embark has said nothing, and this would be a deliberate and impactful nerf

I have ~double your XP on deagles. Mine are lvl 8.25. They feel the same to me as they always have.

Rationally, I think you are wrong. I hope you understand. I have no reason to take your claim as fact

They did “fix dispersion” once and that was intended to make the bloom slower. If there was an accidental nerf it was probably there. But i don’t feel like they’re less accurate now than ever before.

[neon barn]

bet

[last steeple]

Free yourself from the (easy) meta option and uses the other ones, or use off meta weapons that are still super great and enjoyable caus game's pretty balanced weapons wise

[tardy light]

Is this where you think they got worse

[proven parcel]

isnt this compensated by the faster dmg multiplier drop?

[unkempt moss]

Kurama is going in

[tardy light]

Sorry dude

[unkempt moss]

Get his ass!

[candid vessel]

The point at which they tweaked the dispersion is the point where they started feeling worse, and like i said the people i play with noticed it too. If they didn’t notice i wouldn’t be so sure of myself. I can understand you not wanting to believe me but i hope you dont think im just lying for the sake of it

[tardy light]

I’m not trying to be mean. And I would feel really bad if he was right and I was just shutting him down. But like, I don’t care enough to find video footage of deagles crosshair from different eras of the game. And no one has produced such evidence. It’s all vibes

[candid vessel]

Yes

[candid vessel]

Nah ik dw im aware i sound insane

[unkempt moss]

You gotta be ruthless like Solar.

[tardy light]

If the issue is dispersion, we could compare footage of a YouTuber who used the same crosshair reticle before and after 8.3 and just trust that reticle is accurate to dispersion

[candid vessel]

The % decrease in damage multiplier is much smaller than the % increase in the gap between min and max range, thus its now better at mid range and worse at long range. Id make a graph if i could

[tardy light]

maybe ekazo? But I also don’t care and just like yapping, I don’t think I’ll actually put in that effort

[proven parcel]

do pls

[alpine sphinx]

can we talk about how goo grenade is ridiculously strong especially since lights and mediums can use it

[tardy light]

Someone put it on Reddit, a Desmos graph

[candid vessel]

Ive used the same crosshair since S1 and 100% have clips from S4 i can dig up like rn probably

[unkempt moss]

Sure.

[candid vessel]

Yeah that doesn’t surprise me

[tardy light]

If you can, it is worth it because it might lead to embark buffing deags

[candid vessel]

Im trying to find some rn. Id quite like to know if im imagining things or not (im starting to think i most definitely am atp)

[tardy light]

To be honest, I do a lot of tapfiring and play with dispersion reticle off, so videos would be the best way for me to actually be confident in my answer, they just feel the same to me off vibes

[tardy light]

he didn’t accept your conversation invite…

[alpine sphinx]

im in a ranked match mb

[tardy light]

Take your time king

[unkempt moss]

I agree with him, so itll have to be someone else to disagree with him.

[tardy light]

I think opportunity cost is so funny in gadgets. Goo is so strong but mostly mediums bring it.

C4 is so strong (substantially for its stall) but few lights bring breaching charge

just cause the other gadgets available within the specific archetype make the gadget in question less useful by comparison

[indigo nexus]

Hipfire spread? I measure the base walking hipfire spread circle size for the different weapons but have not been bothered to get a proper simulation of them.

(ADS spread too, actually)

[unkempt moss]

They were talking about airborne but it would be interesting to see them all.

[indigo nexus]

So the values I have are for the most part accurate, but they’re a little off in one direction or the other across guns in terms of practical application in calculations.

[indigo nexus]

Nah, I don’t have a good way of measuring those.

[unkempt moss]

How did you measure walking?

[indigo nexus]

I just measured the literal size of a circular dispersion reticule while walking, in most cases. It almost always lines up well with the actual spread.

And calculations-wise I did accuracy tests with the LH1 to determine the relationship between ranges and scaled-to-character-model circle size, and approximate the hit rate against a hitbox. In my graphs, wherever spread comes into play, it uses that model to determine what the hit rate for that range should be vs the class in question, under the critical assumption that during full speed fire, a gun’s spread behaves similarly over time to the LH1’s

[candid vessel]

Am i tripping or is it actually worse now

I swear it is

Like ever so slightly

[indigo nexus]

I could measure for a difference but I don’t have time right now, it’s important that I go to bed

Maybe later in the day tomorrow

[alpine sphinx]

fix this shit embark, your mode doesnt work

[candid vessel]

Either way it sure as shit aint better

[tardy light]

Hmm looks like you’re moving in both. You only fired 11 shots in the first and 14 shots in the second so we should discount the last 3. We need to make sure the fire rate was the same, if you were tapping in one and spraying in the other it would not work—we can use a metronome to measure this

[proven parcel]

i tried to compare which is better for high mobility jumppad shockwave build and i found some which are more compatible with that build. i also remembered the misleading akimbo range so i was asking if there are any stats saved or datamined somewhere.

the patch notes mention some numbers when talking about accuracy.

[candid vessel]

In that case u do that and dont worry about my insane ramblings. Enjoy sleeping

[tardy light]

This will work. Maybe I will take up solar’s mantle and count pixels in between the dot and reticle. Idk

[unkempt moss]

You're fine. I was just curious.

[candid vessel]

Ik the last 3 shots dont count but after 11 it still looks worse to me. I also did a stationary crouched comparison but thats like the same

[candid vessel]

The one in the shooting range is just now and i tried to recreate the same accuracy penalties

Moving + standing

[proven parcel]

what i tried was i measured how far away from the line on the walls the shots landed in practice mode when jumping. ofc i wish i had real numbers my findings kinda show me that if i want to play jumppad shockwave i would benefit from akm, cb reapeater, chimera and cl 40

[candid vessel]

Cl40 is great for that. Shame its so ass rn

[proven parcel]

for example the fcar is garbage and the famas is also better if you dont jump around even tho its hipfire is better than the akm

[candid vessel]

Also im firing as fast as i can in both clips

Imma try and dig up some more old clips

[candid vessel]

Rest in pieces 😭😭

[alpine sphinx]

this shit is so fucking annoying, it happens on revives too and on picking up utility. Like it lets you interact for a few seconds, and then it just cancels it.
This bug has existed since the beginning of the game and happens in other situations too, its just very prominent on moving platforms because this shit literally can lose you the game very easily

[proven parcel]

Distance	Old dmg	New dmg	Difference	Buff
12.5m	13.44	13.80	+0.36	+2.7%
15m	10.88	11.60	+0.72	+6.6%
17.5m	8.32	9.40	+1.08	+13.0%
18m	8.32	8.96	+0.64	+7.7%
18.5m	8.32	8.52	+0.20	+2.4%
~18.7m	8.32	8.32	0	Same
20m+	8.32	7.20	-1.12	-13.5% nerf

yo its crazy the m11 is really buffed how did they miss this? or is this intended cuz they wanted to shift power?

[alpine sphinx]

yes, its intentional, because Embark loves light players concerningly much

nerfing a most picked light weapon outright cant be done because otherwise you get thousands of rats complaining about it on reddit

[proven parcel]

average 7% buff to that optimal range is crazy right?

[alpine sphinx]

it absolutely is, theyre pretending as if the m11 struggled to kill its targets

[candid vessel]

Both taken after 11 shots of spam firing while walking and fully stood up.

@tardy light

[candid vessel]

Actually night and day

I rest my case

Patch 8.3 straight to the gulag

[tardy light]

Ok ok, there could be an explanation.

1. are you sure you took the screenshot exactly at the same time? the dispersion seems to fall off SHARPLY immediately after the shot, so even slight human error would make a big difference

2. are you sure both were "spam firing?"

3. maybe they adjusted dispersion for a certain stance (like being still standing) but not walking and firing? and the note is just vague?

[candid vessel]

1 and 2 i am 1000% confident on

I got these by manually scrubbing through an already 50% speed video

And both are most definitely spam fired

[tardy light]

you paused at the exact frame the dispersion increased, i guess?

[candid vessel]

I got the 2 points where the dispersion peaked

[candid vessel]

These are as high as they go before they start to decrease

[tardy light]

idk how to cope harder for embark, make a #1201841543926005810 i guess

[candid vessel]

Even if they are the same, which im now 99.9% sure they aren’t, according to the patch notes the new ones should be BETTER, which they 100% aren’t

[tardy light]

well sorry for doubting u, but im glad i made u pull out some evidence to silence the haters

Do you guys think it is unethical to use a ranked token on an item you don't use in ranked?

[candid vessel]

Nah dw man i do NOT blame you AT ALL for calling bs. Im surprised i actually seem to be right.

[candid vessel]

Only reason ive started playing ranked this season is because i want a gold tracking dart because its funny and looks cool because the gold and carbon trim is like inverted compared to emerald/diamond/ruby

[candid vessel]

And ty for making me actually get some evidence to back up one of my questionable claims

[unkempt moss]

Love the growth in wepsNgadg

[candid vessel]

Its beautiful

[unkempt moss]

Not really. Its your token so go nuts.

[candid vessel]

I support this mindset

[ember sail]

Winch is good for the KS23 agenda. If it overtakes SA1216 in the meta everyone would whine about poke heavy again and KS23 will be nerfed (making Heavy unplayable)

[icy egret]

Was it hype or? The Akimbos haven't really changed since they were added, slightly tighter dispersion and slightly less range.

[candid vessel]

I have proof the dispersion is worse

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-they-called-me-a-madman-infinity-war-madman-gif-13990981

[candid vessel]

And i dont blame them tbf but still

[candid vessel]

Just scroll up

[icy egret]

[candid vessel]

And take this

[candid vessel]

If they nerfed it in 7.12 then the wiki is straight up missing the most important patch note

[candid vessel]

Nope 7.12 was just a store update i checked rn

[icy egret]

Just realized how similar theses skins are. Just depends what colour of gold you want.

[icy egret]

[candid vessel]

And imo neither are as good as the gold texture on the gold reward weapons

[icy egret]

That implies playing ranked. Eugh.

[icy egret]

Why exactly is this Mythic?