💣┇weapons-gadgets

[slow linden]

I wanted to build my damn cabin I never chose to pvp but it was hands every time

That said I love grubbing in ark and rust so I guess I'm used to this

[muted condor]

My money goes to evil corporations who’s plans involve hostile take over of public subsidies and over charging the people for basic needs but still have the decency to leave kids alone

[slow linden]

I fuck with this fit heavy

[muted condor]

It’s on medium but I need to see how it looks on heavy

[slow linden]

I know it's on medium it's an expression

[knotty steeple]

I developed a primal rage while playing Roblox fighting games, and I learned how to control my anger really well from them and how to deal with annoying people or trolls. After I stopped playing them I almost never get truly mad at a game and when I do I can quickly cool myself off. Mainly by just thinking of my gf and thinking of those gamer rage videos. If you feel bad about raging, just watch those videos you'll feel so much better.

And everytime go to slam my desk I think of someone in the video destroying their setup bc of fortnite and remember I must not become like them

[slow linden]

One bad game of for honor will have you screaming slurs and breaking shit 😭

[knotty steeple]

Hunk looking a bit different today

[muted condor]

That’s why I keep a cage of emergency yeet rodents next to my game set up

[slow linden]

FUCK that evil ass game dude 😭

[slow linden]

Do not thundercunt your hamster into the ceiling fan it doesn't like it

[indigo nexus]

it seems so weird to me conceptually that anger isn't always a choice, rather it can be something that just happens to a person

[knotty steeple]

The big 4 games I swore to never play or play again, r6, for honor, brawlhalla and league of legends

[slow linden]

Play for honor

[knotty steeple]

Tho my friend is trying to convince me to play for honor. I mean I played a lot of chiverly 2 so it can't be that bad right?

[slow linden]

R6 never made me mad,the devs just took all the milsim aspects and cool mechanics out and the game is ass now

[zenith folio]

lowk starlight with flamethrower is so much better than you'd think

[slow linden]

Stopped playing after it got really stale and boring.

[zenith folio]

R6 was what The Finals is to me now until they completely ruined their game 50x over to cater to the competitive players

[muted condor]

It’s pretty bad

[indigo nexus]

hm

[muted condor]

It’s like the R6 of sword games

[slow linden]

I'm a flamethrower main so I'd think better to discount it on any open map other than sys horizon

[slow linden]

See what I mean?

[indigo nexus]

well I don't think I'll ever understand the state of mind that leads to a review like that

[zenith folio]

for honor has REALLY good feeling combat but its one of the most unenjoyable games youll play

[slow linden]

Certain games just do a very specific kind of damage to a person

[muted condor]

Kinda peak tho

[slow linden]

Play chivalry 2 instead,the devs are evil shitheads but at least they made a good game and kept it good

[zenith folio]

alr so the hover pad is

[muted condor]

Why does it exist?

[zenith folio]

kinda ass if you're playing against any sort of gun that has range

its good for sniping i GUESS, i think its mainly as a counter for melee and flamethrower

[slow linden]

Play chivalry 2 you'll have a lot of fun,the controlls are all momentum and directional input based

[muted condor]

Gotta get that DJ Kali meme of “what does he even do” but with hover pad

[zenith folio]

oh i know

chiv 2 is one of the few pvp games ill never get mad at

also hoyl rage bait name

[slow linden]

It's not ragebait it's the truth if you know winchclaws history

I am a melee focused heavy and I never use winch because i know what it is

[zenith folio]

ive been player heavy since i started playing in season 1 and its always been good fun

[slow linden]

It's a parasite that gets anything with synergy nerfed to shit or reworked or neglected

[zenith folio]

you got me killed

[slow linden]

Tf are you playing

[zenith folio]

also yeah its a lot worse but its still fun

[runic axle]

I do believe a charge-up mechanic/animation would make winch much more balanced

[slow linden]

The fun it gives is not worth the fun it takes away by having it,it's a crutch and a parasite that will kill heavy eventually

[slow linden]

It's good for portable high ground and head glitches and baby gates that you can shoot enemies through but they can't push through

[muted condor]

Bro doesn’t know about the hate we do up in here
Kinda hate they talk about in the Bible

[slow linden]

To me my hate is my Bible

[muted condor]

Hate is our Word
Rage is our Creed

[slow linden]

Fuck winchclaw,fuck defib,fuck dash

[zenith folio]

genuinely alt f4d i hate flashbang spam

if they remove anything it should be flashbangs bc if they get spammed you isntantly lose

[slow linden]

The flashbang effect actually stacks duration,they're low key a hidden meta

[zenith folio]

id rather smash my nuts between boards covered in rusty blunt nails than play against blashbangs

[slow linden]

Genuinely have been turned into Helen Keller for 20 seconds straight but imo automatics and poke are more annoying than flashbangs

[runic axle]

I love getting flashbanged and then killing the overconfident light anyway because I have a grenade launcher and spatial awareness

[slow linden]

I love getting flashed and just airing out the whole room with flamethrower and goo gun,both my Pyro mines and a Pyro nade,if I'm dying you're getting trapped in a burning coffin too

[zenith folio]

i think if they do anything they should make it more like a stun in MW2 so you can still actually see

[slow linden]

Fuck no that'd be so much worse,get that ridiculous thought out of your head this instant

[zenith folio]

id at least wanna see so i dont fall in a hole where like 4 people are

[slow linden]

It's called learning the map and having a functional short term memory

[zenith folio]

except when you were already strafing and shooting at someone so that short term memory means fuck all

[slow linden]

I get flashed,but I remember there's a corner three steps back and two steps right from me

It's easy to get used to

[knotty steeple]

We got big problems with dash, winch, and defib and we talm bout some flash bangs

[eager wasp]

dash is fine for the most part, winch i guess could use another small bump but mesh is taking over a bit, and defibs are just too difficult to make not as needed, its going to be amazing no matter what, unless the put crazy nerfs and just make it completely useless

[knotty steeple]

Explain what you mean by bump winch

[eager wasp]

like a small nerf

[lime bloom]

Winch feels balanced but annoying, it's a punish for fighting a heavy solo

[knotty steeple]

You just dodged a bullet son

[timber sparrow]

Winch is diabolical i hate winch

[muted condor]

Remove defibs

[slow linden]

Winchclaw NEEDS to be removed for heavy to thrive,it's shit now but it's annoying enough for them to have an excuse to nerf the shit out of heavy at any time

[slow linden]

Winchclaw will kill heavy and then the game

[shell sonnet]

the introduction of shockwave actually made me kind of hopeful for a "what if" scenario

its an interesting mix of movement and untility
and while not directly adjacent, it could serve as a rough blueprint of factors for winch to follow

but i dont think my brain is capable of elaborating rn

[slow linden]

I'd prefer if winch let you rope swing but they'd never do that

[shell sonnet]

still thinking of "fat spiderman brings down the roof"

• wall destruction ofc

shockwave's movement doesnt fit on heavy ofc
but it has somewhat similar utility

replace movement with destruction, one of heavies primary features, and we migth be good

[slow linden]

Imo they either need to turn it into a gmod rope tool that lets you tether literally anything to anything or anyone,or removed it

[shell sonnet]

i dont think that has enough uses sadly

i mean, we had the "player is lockbolt anchor" idea floating around too

at least it isnt free forced face tanking for the victim

[slow linden]

It would just be lockbolt as a spec but only usable from melee range

[shell sonnet]

that... seems worse
in a way

[slow linden]

You could tether to you and pull them around,or you could tether to their friends or your teammate to force a fight

[shell sonnet]

i mean, i guess the heavy has to be close first which is good

but it also means, if they ever get close at all, you just die

[slow linden]

Melee as in like flamethrower range

[slow linden]

Not before you weld them to the floor lmao

[shell sonnet]

yeah
if they ever get into said range by camping a door, jumping through a window, using goo/shields, as soon as youre hit, you cant escape anymore

or am i misunderstanding something maybe?

[slow linden]

Nah,heavy just has to back up and pull you into the room,but no more stun and the heavy can't do anything other than move while holding the rope

[shell sonnet]

oooooh, no attacking
hmmm
that might be fine actually

in larger organized fights, you loose 1 player of dps

and in skirmishes, as long as the rope length doesnt decrease as they pull, it would at most move the playing field, not the state (since distance itself doesnt change)

step 1: place a nuke somewhere
step 2: winch someone
step 3:
https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-spongebob-meme-spongebob-squarepants-spongebob-screaming-spongebob-scared-gif-22994973

well, works rn already, but this seems funnier

would be more useful for cashout manipulation too
or at least more versitile than 1 fast pull

[slow linden]

Funny and whimsical additions is what I want not a stunning tapeworm that is killing heavy

[shell sonnet]

real

i should bring up the orb of death nuke idea again

[slow linden]

I'd imagine a riot shield medium or mesh heavy could protect the heavy from the victim

[shell sonnet]

but thats a pandora's box im not comfortable opening

hmmm, what other stupid shit could we make winch do?

[slow linden]

Only the first explosive placed on a prop or barrel will ever do any damage they completely and undeservedly gutted nukes

Trapping is a dying sport in the finals

[shell sonnet]

disagree about the undeserved

[shell sonnet]

im having fun with propane canisters

its stupid to hear a hit sound, and get a kill a split second later

[slow linden]

Nothing deserves to just be gutted,everything should at least be functional

[shell sonnet]

i dont think it wouldve worked in a way that still resembles what it used to be sadly

[slow linden]

They all but removed that mechanic,now if you want a flowerpot c4 kill you throw it and it flies sideways

[slow linden]

Remove the weight penalty on the prop or barrel from explosives,the limit of one boom still exists

[shell sonnet]

i think we talked about this before actually

[slow linden]

Both the rope tool and nukes I've spoken of several times

[shell sonnet]

and there was the boring "canisters have 2x aoe when detonated by c4" but thats even further from nukes

[shell sonnet]

i remember the ropes
nukes not so much, and not specifically orb of death nukes

[slow linden]

Nah I mean nukes as a topic or really just the mechanic of putting Explosives on props being basically useless now

Even one explosive on a prop or barrel is useless unless it's on a heal ball or cash box,and that's because they're just way heavier than the explosives

[shell sonnet]

whats up with the damage?

i wanted to test the side sway with different weights you mentioned
tried setting up a perfect bounce on a dummy, and it barely deals any damage

[slow linden]

That's another thing,if it lands it does nothing

Embark doesn't balance they only blanket nerf everything and randomly gut shit

And they buff one weapon into the sky every season and let it torment us all for that whole season

[shell sonnet]

did they legitimize spear cancel?

[slow linden]

They never removed it because spear is already dogshit

[shell sonnet]

yeah, but now i can attack if i cancel, didnt use to be the case

but im not sure about the exact rundown of that whole thing, because i never use it in game

[muted condor]

Naw they just haven’t gotten around to removing it like they probably want

[slow linden]

Idk,nothing positive embark does is ever intentional,barricades used to be perfect when they fucked up their placement parameters now they're flawed and janky again

[slow linden]

Lazy pieces of shit won't even touch spear to nerf it to even further dogshit like how they're comfortable with doing to melee

[craggy plume]

my guess would be that they aren't touching it bcs it's gonna get reworked anyways

[muted condor]

LMAO

[slow linden]

I'm gonna be so honest,the amount of stuff that medium got this season is the bare minimum that every class should get every season,every class should get SOMETHING

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/laugh-out-loud-laugh-ridiculous-hilarious-lolz-gif-11471928946508461092

[craggy plume]

a melee rework IS coming next season

[muted condor]

Get a load of this guy

[slow linden]

They'll still find a way to neglect spear

[slow linden]

😏

[muted condor]

The “Rework” that will definitely make a single meaningful change lmao

Also how’s that MGL rework coming along?

[slow linden]

Embark will do anything but make the sandbox more fun and usable,no they must add more auto and poke slop every season

[mental nacelle]

we noticed same thing

[heavy sequoia]

not true they gave med a ton of ways to be creative

[heavy sequoia]

remember rainbow six u cant add too much or the game is too unpredictable

[slow linden]

And Only medium

[heavy sequoia]

so?

[indigo nexus]

side effect of a bug fix

[slow linden]

They removed more from that game before that happened,it used to have cooking grenades and night maps,the game used to be a lot darker(literally not figuratively) and be more of a proper milsim

[heavy sequoia]

true but still oversaturation killed it

[slow linden]

They removed all that before they added the new stuff,the new stuff would have been fine had they not hollowed out their own game and added all the new stuff to over compensate for it

[heavy sequoia]

i want embark to add more too but i think they did a pretty good job

and if u look at the buffs to gadgets this season you see them buffing things not weakining strong ones if this continues we may see more variety in the sandbox

i mean hell i saw a breach drill the other day

[slow linden]

It's still not enough after 3 nothingburger seasons

[shell sonnet]

nvm then

melee rework s11

[sudden pewter]

Data Reshaper buff is literally game changing but I get it

[sudden pewter]

If they fumble it there will be no riots (it’s a melee weapon)

[slow linden]

I'm glad they did that,and I like the new spec but I feel like they could've done more,delayed the season for 2 weeks for what

[sudden pewter]

Done more? Like what? The season seems intentionally medium-centric. Shockwave gives Medium non-gadget mobility options for quick getaways or to make space, along with OBJ utility. Platform seems really underwhelming admittedly.

[indigo nexus]

Why? I generally assume that how much they could've done is about the same as how much they did

on most fronts at least, there are some areas where they could easily make a ton of changes but evidently choose not to

[sudden pewter]

Mediums have alot more power & control with Shockwave alone. I don’t believe they qualify as the victim build anymore

[slow linden]

Ehhh just feels half finished,like they crammed a bunch of stuff they were working on onto medium but probably have a backlog of unfinished weapons and gadgets that are just not going to be added,I mean look at when they added p90 and titan,light got literally nothing that season and I'm pretty sure this is why

[tranquil sapphire]

Does anyone know if other players can hear the clarinet skin inspect?

[slow linden]

I expected new specs for everyone at the least,I was disappointed

[slow linden]

Idk I don't have it yet

[slow linden]

I didn't really care at the time,but I feel differently on it now,just feels like they got lazy

[shell sonnet]

maybe s11 will be the rework season (right guys? right?)

[slow linden]

I hope,but I also doubt

[limber rune]

anyone know how to use the Hover Pad correctly? ive been playing around with it for a couple days now and havent figured out a consistent way to use it. I tried using it how it shows in the trailer thingamabob, but I got shot down almost immediately. I also tried using it as a "movement" ability, like a bridge you can use to jump across buildings, but that could be fulfilled much better by the Jump Pad. The only way i've gotten a little bit of success with is putting it in the corners of the objective room with an APS turret and smoke grenades. however, even this doesnt work consistently because most people will sonar before they rush. it will only kill people who bum-rush. any help is appreciated 🥹

[slow linden]

You can use it for head glitches and deny access to doorways while still letting you shoot through them

[limber rune]

oooh like a barrier kinda? i like that idea

[slow linden]

Yea,it's got more uses than just a platform

[craggy plume]

you can also use it as a shield from shots from above
at least for a few shots

[limber rune]

ooooh thats smart! thats why i love getting help from people better at the game than me 😂

[slow linden]

Could block the hatch in elevators with it I think

[craggy plume]

yeah can be used to block holes in general

[slow linden]

I'm a poor shot but I win with gamesense and traps mainly

[limber rune]

thats another great one wow!

[craggy plume]

my main issue i have with it is the same one with barricade. it can't touch anything to be placeable

[slow linden]

They needa fix that imo

[shrewd elm]

I did aps turret on top and normal turret on the bottom of hover pad. Was pretty nice for point break

[slow linden]

Hey quick barricade tip,don't seal every entrance,angle one or more of the barricades and put mines on the door frame so people brush into them trying to peek the room

[lime bloom]

Wait can shockwave be countered by APS?

[shrewd elm]

No

[slow linden]

Leave enough space to squeeze through

[lime bloom]

I see, APS only counters items that can be reshaped I'm guessing

[slow linden]

Yes,also it can parry rpgs

[shrewd elm]

What? My aps turret got sent flying by shockwave

[lime bloom]

Glitch can disbale APS if only the blast radius hits

[slow linden]

They probably clipped it with the edge of their blast radius intentionally

[craggy plume]

they should just make it clip and add a dematerialized effect to the gadget where it clips.
I'm not sure how easy that is to do tho. sounds simple but could be complicated

[lime bloom]

But APS will counter glitch

[shrewd elm]

Aps flew straight out a window and I was like WTF

[slow linden]

Lmao

[shrewd elm]

I enjoy this game too much because of the silly things more than kills or what not lol I’d rather be laughing the whole game x)

[slow linden]

As long as the projectile doesn't touch the radius of the aps it can do its thing

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/no-no-gif-17511868351874922325

[slow linden]

Aps can hit shit through walls,as a goo gun main I can just drain aps turrets through walls

[shrewd elm]

I just started fiddling with APS cause lots of heavy’s use MGL in PB. It’s durability is crap lol

[lime bloom]

MGL overwhelms APS easily, APS is best vs CL, nade spam and RPG

[slow linden]

Beware the humble goo gun

[slow linden]

Try learning goo gun flamethrower

You will enjoy

[lime bloom]

Ragebait with claw

Claw plus flame is incredibly annoying

[slow linden]

Winchclaw is a poison

[muted condor]

Ngl aps is best when replaced with a good gadget

[slow linden]

It will kill heavy

[limber rune]

my fav combo is sledgehammer + anti-gravity cube + winch claw so you can just yoink the cashout

[lime bloom]

It's honestly more the fault of flame, I wonder how good a pull stun will be when I have a melee range weapon

With everything else it's a more polarizing lockbolt that only hits 1 user

[slow linden]

Not flame,winchclaw is to blame for Sledge being gutted in the first place,it affects the balance of many things outside itself,it's a parasite

Kill the serpent in the garden

[sudden pewter]

Light didn’t need anything. They have just about every niche covered (also had +1 weapon on the other builds)

[limber rune]

we need more variety though. you basically have the same 3 loadouts for every light

[slow linden]

I agree,but if they're gonna add anything at all thet should add to all classes rather than pick favorites

Either everyone gets something or no one gets anything

And half the weapons they add are just more boring autoslop like the p90

[muted condor]

They should make all the dog shit stuff better instead of adding new stuff

[slow linden]

Agreed,but they're never going to do that because they're dumb

[sudden pewter]

We’d see more variety with more balance changes. We don’t need new toys for that. (Lots of Light staple picks are also just more popular than other options)

[slow linden]

I think the only new shit we really need is a new spec for light and heavy and that's about it,they need to fix everything that is already in the game before they add any new weapons

[lime bloom]

Not really, sledge was just overpowered in general

I saw them use things that weren't winch during its prime in season 6, stuff like Goo gun and mesh shield

[slow linden]

I want new weapons in the future but I want a balance that welcomes them rather than competes with them

[slow linden]

Ohhh so you're just dumb got it

[lime bloom]

Real, 2/3 weapons since season 5 for Med just competes with Pike

[slow linden]

They were the minority,not the majority

[lime bloom]

No, I used to complain about the sledge nerf for a long time, but after fighting against it enough and using it myself, the current version is actually fine

[slow linden]

I use and fight it and I kinda just kill it without trying nowadays

Melee is overnerfed

[lime bloom]

That's kind of the thing, they're all low tier but buffing them in a meaningful way would be infuriating

With the exception of Sledge as that weapon is managing but run SA12

[slow linden]

Idk I find automatics way more annoying than any melee weapon

[lime bloom]

Automatics are fine, they're just the generalists of the game

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, the pile of dust needs to be addressed. I understand tourists don’t want that over shiny new toys but gamehealth should come first

[lime bloom]

But also season 6 was kind of a mess as it was just Cerb and Sledge since that just out damaged anything besides SH

[slow linden]

The only true generalist weapon in the game is cerb and its one of the most fun

[lime bloom]

That's one of the most niche weapons for Med

Generalist would be the AKM, where it's good in all general situations

[slow linden]

Let me spell this out for you,they added so many automatics,because they're safe and easy to balance,they made the sandbox too stale and neglected and nerfed anything that wasn't an automatic or poke to hell

[lime bloom]

Sledge was nerfed because it was just overpowered, same with Cerberus

Most of the more recent patch notes were to buff things that aren't automatics, sure there's automatic buffs but less so than other weapon types

They also nerfed poke during the end of season 9 by BFR and Repeater being too dominant

[slow linden]

Cerb was overtuned yes,Sledge wasn't,no one complained about it it was a spontaneous decision by embark that everyone hated,embark doesn't decide what's balanced they don't even play their own game anymore,the playerbase does

[lime bloom]

They explained why it was nerfed in 7.0

[slow linden]

They were wrong

The playerbase's opinion counteracts their decision,they made a bad call and doubled down on it that's all,dying to melee is caused by poor positioning and nothing more

[lime bloom]

Problem is that it was generally way too oppressive in all skill levels by the quick melee set ups in all modes, that's what they explained in the blog post

The map wasn't in your favor either, demat wasn't nerfed until the next season

[slow linden]

It just really wasn't

[lime bloom]

I played during season 6, every team ran sledge as it was the best option out of anything

Only things that came close during the season were Shak and SA12

[broken mulch]

This is a fair take but it doesn’t change the fact that Cerberus is def not a generalist weapon

[lime bloom]

If a shotgun were to have the generalist role, it'd be the Model

[broken mulch]

I do think melee is generally on the weaker side tho, but I am a sword main so

[lime bloom]

Melee still needs buffs, just a full revert of season 7 is a bad idea

[broken mulch]

Sword has a p long ttk considering how close u gotta get, not including the lunge +qm on light

[slow linden]

It can do most things except poke,but nothing really needs to poke in this game all the fights are close

[viscid carbon]

I just showed up here but how the fuck is the cerb a generalist weapon lol

Literally how

[broken mulch]

Right but generalist would be alright in all situations, Cerberus isn’t good midrange or beyond

[lime bloom]

It's bad beyond 6 meters

[maiden siren]

Thats why it's better as a dive than anything

[broken mulch]

I think it’s 8 but yes

[maiden siren]

Cerberus is just the medium equivalent of DB, you just have to play it as a dive weapon and its perfectly viable imo

[broken mulch]

Cerberus is very good at close range burst and nothing else

[lime bloom]

Again, generalist would be the AKM

[maiden siren]

Yeah but isn't every shotgun? Besides the ks

Cerb just demands a very different playstyle compared to other shotguns due to its small mag size and lower potential dps

[broken mulch]

right, im not saying thats a bad thing but i see how it kinda came off that way

[maiden siren]

Oh yeah no I know wym

Hot take every weapon is balanced and most "broken" weapons are countered by just playing on the weaknesses

I say this in the seasons current state, and assuming you don't play goofy loadouts with very obvious weaknesses in terms of gadgets and specs

[broken mulch]

i disagree in that every weapon is balanced but i also dont think any weapons are too oppressive

like in no way is the spear balanced its straight ass

there are people who use it well but goddamn do they have to try

[maiden siren]

Lwk I forget it exists but I'm pretty sure itd getting some kind of remake soon

[broken mulch]

season 11 for all melee

[maiden siren]

What I've been saying for so long is make the spear THROW ABLE like omg

[slow linden]

It's a support weapon beyond 6 meters it can still ignite enemies while your teammates fight them

[broken mulch]

i think the spin attack is the only think keeping the spear mains able to use it

[slow linden]

@sudden pewter

[maiden siren]

It's a damn spear isn't it like the point?
I'm not saying like far range throw I'm saying like enough where 8 meters is fair play

[zenith folio]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING THIS IS THE MULTI DEVICE SKIN IN THE BATTLEPASS HOLY SHIT

[lime bloom]

It's fine for chip but besides that it's not that good at ranges like that, which is why it's balanced

[broken mulch]

maybe if the main attack was any good but spin attack is what every good spear player uses since its the only thing of any value on it, its stupid u have to anim cancel with it tho

[maiden siren]

Cerb is very good at chip

[lime bloom]

At ranges between 6-12 meters is where you'd want Model

[slow linden]

Make the spin the basic attack and make the alt fire a chargeable spear thrust grab attack/impaling thrust

[maiden siren]

Animation cancel tho you need it

[broken mulch]

each part of the spin sure
like each swing

[maiden siren]

Not a grab attack tho we don't need secondary wonch

[slow linden]

Yea,I never claimed it wasn't balanced where it's at rn

[lime bloom]

Current Cerb is kind of weird, it's fine but could be a lot better, kind of like Sledge

[slow linden]

I said automatics are oversaturated

[maiden siren]

I'm not thinking like orisa from overwatch without the stun and a heavy arc so it doesn't go far range

[maiden siren]

I stand by my take that it's really underrated, but lwk only viable with shockwave because you need to save gadgets

[broken mulch]

what abt demat

[lime bloom]

Cerb is fun if you use map geometry to your advantage, current Cerb isn't too great with current demat

[maiden siren]

Demat doesn't fix the cerbs weakness, which is closing the gap between you and the opponent

[broken mulch]

i wouldnt really know i dont like medium melee(im including cerb in melee)

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-pat-cut-this-vein-gif-15495131099012497825

[lime bloom]

During season 6 it worked really well by the Cerb doing more damage than currently

Which is 104 plus afterburn vs 120 plus afterburn

The Cerb across 2 nerfs lost 21 damage

[maiden siren]

The only clear clear weakness of cerb that isn't fixed with the right playstyle is heavies

[lime bloom]

Yeah now it's losing when before you just stomped everyone

[maiden siren]

They cant one mag them even if you hit every pellet and let all the burn

[lime bloom]

You need a quick melee like vs Light, but it's safer to escape to load in more shells

[maiden siren]

The way around this is dive like I said earlier you can't do all that just by running in, it's almost like DB light playstyle

[sudden pewter]

Can we go one day without someone suggesting we remove a melee weapons only weakness ffs

[lime bloom]

Yeah you need to use the map desing to your advantage with Cerb, which the other team can counter by just breaking stuff

[maiden siren]

I wasn't suggesting, we can all agree tho that spear is like the neglected adopted child of the game

[zenith folio]

teammates keep reviving me and i keep getting immediately killed by the same light with throwing knives and a heavy with a flamethrower

actually getting softlocked by my own team

[lime bloom]

Correction, if you space out your shots it kills

[maiden siren]

That's why goo grenade and shockwave is heavily incentivised to use

[lime bloom]

2 ticks between each Cerb shell kills a heavy, but that takes a while so you need to be careful

[maiden siren]

Yeah that's what i was trying to say I just couldn't word it

[lime bloom]

Nevrmind I'm wrong again, because of the max damage being 104, you don't need to space your shots

[maiden siren]

But with heals most of the time it really hurts that kill time

[lime bloom]

But yeah if one infuser dart hits the Heavy you need to quick melee

[maiden siren]

Imo dive is the ONLY viable playstyle for cerb rn, it just isn't worth it with anything else besides maybeee support

But there are better support weapons

[lime bloom]

Starting to forget why I bought the S9 pass, a lot of the items are kind of buns, like the ashborn reload for Cerb

[maiden siren]

THE RELOAD IS SO LOUD

[lime bloom]

Other players can hear it so much easier than default

Not to mention, Cerb's default reload is already like the 2nd best one in the game, it's clean, quick and with character

[maiden siren]

Cerb is so clean like please please I heavily recommend shockwave goo grenade jump pad cerb

The last gadget defib on cash out
Use something else on casual modes

[lime bloom]

Worst one might be CL-40 by a bad loop, gonna see if it got fixed

[maiden siren]

Model is very clunky at the moment

[lime bloom]

Honestly the reload is still great even if it's missing the old one

[maiden siren]

I can't do model just because it surprisingly feels less consistent than cerb

I tried it yesterday and expected more consistency but got the exact opposite

[lime bloom]

I have the opposite issue, I struggle with the inconsistency of Cerb but Model feels great

Granted I've used Model a lot more than Cerb, especially after season 7

[maiden siren]

Could be that we're just used to different playstyles
I like dive a lot but you may like another more

Like I dive for life, I used DB grapple at one point, even other games like marvel rivals I use dive

[lime bloom]

right it was in 5.12 they toned the atomic nerf that was 5.8, dropping the pellet damage of Model from 13 to 11, now it's 12

[mental nacelle]

why do you not just immediately see your rank score update after a match, why do you have to go through like 10 pages and you CANNOT see it anywhere else?

[lime bloom]

In 6.6 they made using it a lot better my leaning more into the generalist role

[maiden siren]

Lwk idk but it isn't a detrimental issue imo

[mental nacelle]

no but its just one of those things that should be obvious to anyone at embark that plays a ranked match

[maiden siren]

Yeah model is probably good I'm just not good at using it

[maiden siren]

Yeah it could use work but they've been experimenting with UI for a long time they'll get around to it fs

[lime bloom]

Still waiting for the buffs they promised in 9.0 though

[maiden siren]

Speaking of I think that's another thing
Sometimes people claim a weapon is trash but they just don't play it right and they can't accept sometimes it's a matter of skill issues

[lime bloom]

Even if it's because of the reload checkpoint system they promised, which I'm guessing won't come until way later knowing Embark

[maiden siren]

Like sa12 for example devious in the right hands but horrible in a casual chuds hands like mine

[lime bloom]

That's why I jokingly said that it's the ranked gun when a teammate was complaining about it

[maiden siren]

Yes exactly the reload is so clunky I just cant do it

[lime bloom]

I'm still annoyed by the rpg buff back in 9.0, rpg didn't even need it

[maiden siren]

They wanted to do it to counter goo, but I think they could've just make a damage multiplier for goo specifically instead of increasing dps

[lime bloom]

Now it crosses thresholds vs Light, something Heavy did not need

It also helps Revolver vs Med

[maiden siren]

Mhm but lwk I don't mind it this season just because heavy is now falling out of meta little by little

[lime bloom]

It's less annoying now honestly

[maiden siren]

Something that I think heavy needs is a mobility item
Imo Zipline would be perfect

[viscid carbon]

Could you elaborate? Never heard of this

[lime bloom]

They mentioned the "reload checkpoint" system back in 9.0 when Model got buffed

[maiden siren]

Cuz zipline is still slow enough where it isn't gonna make heavy movement god, but enough to have heavy get by faster

[viscid carbon]

Yeah but what does that even mean

[lime bloom]

Best gadget heavy has for movement is anti-grav

[maiden siren]

Either way their gadgets are really good and they have to sacrifice one for zip

[maiden siren]

Yeah but let's be honest it's not meant for movement

[lime bloom]

There's little info besides mentioning it being a system that will benefit Model

[viscid carbon]

Would become one of those gadgets that’s literally never taken off no matter what, just like defib

[lime bloom]

It's not meant for movement, but you can use it for movement

[maiden siren]

I see where ur coming from but as long as the thing brings you up slower than a ladder climb then it's not gonna be worth it

[lime bloom]

Thing about anti-grav is that it perserves your momentum when you enter it, which you can extend a bhop or go higher by entering during your upward force after a jump

It's still not good but it's something and Heavy needs it

[maiden siren]

Nah I don't think so since there are a lot of good heavy gadgets already

[maiden siren]

The only criticism I have with that is how often does heavy get enough momentum to bhop without a jump pad to help?

Or a Zipline?

[lime bloom]

It's more of a counter against a anti-grav user if the heavy is careless or help the med using blades

I have a clip of using my saved momentum from anti-grav to catch up to a light and heavy escaping

[maiden siren]

Yeah I see wym
Still I feel like heavy should have at least one more movement option, maybe make it a spec to make sure it doesn't end up being a must pick

Because all the other specs are broken in their own ways so it won't be overwhelmingly overpowered to the point where the spec is must pick

[lime bloom]

Best Heavy has for movement is anti-grav, goo, barricade and if you're completely desperate, lockbolt

[viscid carbon]

Heavy shcokwave 💀

[maiden siren]

No not that 😭

[viscid carbon]

Imagine a heavy using sheer momentum to chase you across the entire map

That would be fucking terrifying lol

[slow linden]

I miss pre winch centered rework sa12,shit deleted everything but took years to reload that's another reason to hate winchclaw

[maiden siren]

Oh wait actually nvm just for the reason that charge and slam would be useless I think

[viscid carbon]

Oh yeah true that exists for a bit of movement on heavy lol

[slow linden]

Heavy super jump

[maiden siren]

Winch just need you to be able to keep shooting when ur getting winched honestly it's not too oppressive but that stun is definitely a problem

[slow linden]

Or jetpack

[maiden siren]

Lwk yeah heavy doesn't even need horizontal movement, vertical movement would be a good compromise

[viscid carbon]

Remove stun from both parties and it should be fine

[shell sonnet]

problematic against melee

[maiden siren]

Yeah no flying we ain't playing no fortnite or overwatch

[broken mulch]

problematic in that one of the only reasons we arent running triple heavy is that heavy doesnt have any vertical mobility so it relies on medium and light for that

gotta go up the stairs for everything rn

[slow linden]

Heavy already has goated horizontal movement it's called the goo gun

[maiden siren]

Mhm I think vertical movement options would be perfect, horizontal movement nono just because lwk that removes the identity of heavy being slow and strong

[lime bloom]

Righ goo gun, that's best for vertical though

[slow linden]

I agree I was just throwing shit out there that fits heavy

[maiden siren]

No because it doesn't speed up your base speed, it just allows you to maneuver areas better

[muted condor]

Mfs ask for movement on heavy when it has one of the best movement options available

[slow linden]

And I personally would use it with melee or shotguns or titan (i play brawl titan not poke titan)but that's just me

[slow linden]

Fr,goo gun on top

[maiden siren]

Theres a difference between maneuverability and actual speed boosts and stuff

[lime bloom]

Wonder what causes half destroyed buildings to suddenly spin like crazy, it happened back in season 8 and my previous match in Bernal

[muted condor]

C&S

[maiden siren]

Heavy needs that extra bit of speed in it

[muted condor]

C&S

[maiden siren]

Nah I'm talking most likely vertical movement, horizontal movement nono like I said earlier just to keep the identity of slow and strong

[slow linden]

It doesn't need to,if you're behind your teammates regularly your mediums aren't doing their jobs,they should either be providing movement utility or orbiting you

[slow linden]

Cns aight ig,a little undertuned after all the nerfs but it's solid

[tardy light]

Goo gun is one of the best vertical mobility tools too

[maiden siren]

It's a lot of reliance on team gadgets tho, medium and light don't have that problem because they can hold their own much better in terms of getting around

[analog plinth]

What do yall think on this loadout post demat (de)buff? Demat, Riot, Goo grenade, Jump pad, Smoke grenade

[shell sonnet]

what are the general opinions on starlight hollow?

[tardy light]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-shield-gif-4723149553822545077

[lime bloom]

I honeslty think it's buns

Open maps with flat terrain and tons of visual noise like that are kind of just annoying

[slow linden]

Yea,you can bridge with it,basically overcome any and all obstacles

[maiden siren]

I say its alright, nothing too special, not atrocious to the point where I don't want to even look at it

[slow linden]

Poke should be banned on certain maps

[muted condor]

Haven’t played it because it’s only on the doodoo game mode

[shell sonnet]

about what i expected to hear

[lime bloom]

It's why I dislike Monaco and PEACE, with Kyoto being difficult by this as well

[maiden siren]

Yeah but that's about it (besides antigrav but its not as fast), we need at least one more option

Not saying the others are useless and not worth it but we definitely need a bit more variety in the movement department for heavy

[broken mulch]

it looks nice but god does poke feel oppressive

[slow linden]

Antigrav cube has better uses than just a one off movement tool

[shell sonnet]

kyoto has been bad at times for me
but i think ive never considered just outright blanket leaving any match i get on that map so far
lucky me its on a separate cue for now

[maiden siren]

Yeah exactly that too I'd rather use it for stall or catching some guy lacking

[muted condor]

Heavy doesn’t have much vertical movement because that’s how balancing works

[slow linden]

I'd rather a Boulder chucking spec or something like that

[slow linden]

He has more than enough if you're creative

[lime bloom]

Setting up a huge slam with goo nade is funny though

[analog plinth]

too open for me

[slow linden]

Don't talk bad about point break

[maiden siren]

I say giving heavy vertical movement is fair game, horizontal movement is a different story
Just my opinion tho

[lime bloom]

Point break Starlight is actually fun as there's enough people to cover the empty space

[muted condor]

Dog shit, boring, annoying, game mode

[slow linden]

Skill issue ig

[lime bloom]

My main problem with point break is that it's near impossible for defense to win without being a straight up stomp

[muted condor]

I use it to farm contracts

[maiden siren]

Like when has vertical movement ever been too oppressive, maybe you can argue high ground, but it's the finals, just blow them up

[slow linden]

Gas spam is way too annoying on point break

[lime bloom]

It kind of expects too much of 8 randoms to coordinate when offense can simply overwhelm until defense can't hold anymore

Yeah you always need a flame heavy or cerb med to clear out gas

[maiden siren]

It's the fact that its so many players that it gets to the point where it's too much

Like gas spam in only 3v3 fights is less of a nusciance than the monstrosity that is the point break lobbies

[slow linden]

Should have been a 5v5 mode

A team being able to cover every possible weakness is just not balanced

[broken mulch]

point break is fun its a great casual mode

[slow linden]

It is a very fun but flawed mode

[broken mulch]

competitive? fuck no, but casual is perfectly fine

[lime bloom]

That sums up the Finals quickplay modes

[slow linden]

I like it,I really do,but it is very flawed

[broken mulch]

i used to do tdm for warmups before ranked but since theres no objective its a worse warmup than pointbreak

[maiden siren]

Yeah point break shouldnt be taken too seriously, and ofc its flawed because its literally built on chaos

[muted condor]

Gotta jump straight into ranked no warm up

[maiden siren]

It isn't meant to be balanced its meant to be chaotic

[slow linden]

You can just counter pick till you win in most modes that's why I play mostly cashout and I would play more ranked if my dedicated trio wanted to,but it would seem no

[slow linden]

Getting vigorously fucked by 8 automatics and pokes on rooftops isn't chaotic its mind-numbingly boring when it happens

[broken mulch]

i dont want to be that solo queue teammate

[maiden siren]

Lwk if they want to make a chaotic gamemode they should just go all in
Like make it chaotic to the point where noone complains because it's the entire essence of the gamemode and that's how it's supposed to be

Similar to like the other ltms with jump pad on heavy and all that bull

[slow linden]

I did that yesterday with that one placement match,Carried teammates to the second round where they proceeded to not kill anyone at all

[maiden siren]

I feel like that happens a lot, you would have smooth sailing first two rounds and then get wiped like toilet paper final round

[slow linden]

You are getting groomed by the enemy team for easy wins I'm pretty sure

It's a real strat they do,they'll fuck over the better teams and bully the weaker team to the finish line rather than winning by their own merit

[maiden siren]

Yeah sometimes that happens too makes sense

[slow linden]

It's not a sometimes thing it's a very common strategy

[tardy light]

goo is one of those specs that once u switch to u feel like u cant switch off

[tardy light]

my biggest problem with ranked cashout

[slow linden]

As a goo gun main yea,it allows a lot of freedom

[tardy light]

people defend it but getting 3v6 every other game is super annoying id rather play H2H

[cedar iron]

If they dare to adjust chimera in any way Imma throw fists

[slow linden]

They should honestly make head to head a ranked gamemode

[tardy light]

Yeah instead they fcking remove it. weird

[slow linden]

Brain damage ig 💔

[maiden siren]

I feel like mesh is really strong tho, especially if you know there isn't anyone with glitch

[tardy light]

Mesh is strong, but is it fun 🤔

[maiden siren]

I make up for it with the gadgets

[slow linden]

It's just the right amount of strong I feel,it's in a near perfect spot rn

[tardy light]

mesh is also kinda bad for clutch potential compared to goo. like i feel so comfortable 1v3 in the last 20 sec of a cash if i have goo. mesh you need to win teamfights instead. goo lets you play super weirdly

[slow linden]

Sometimes

[maiden siren]

Yeah goo is stall legend but most mesh players are giga chads of support and cover

[slow linden]

With minigun stacks mesh pyramid strat is fucking hilarious

[maiden siren]

Goo is a lot less consistent in the people who use it

[tardy light]

thats probably cause goo is kinda hard to use while mesh is kinda easy to use

[stoic garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1317185703075119165/1488626940402204874/Video_Project_52.mp4?ex=69cd775f&is=69cc25df&hm=40fdc7b0eef792c8fd289cbcaec0483b7baf86ec8380e32de860442861a095e1& my friend recorded my impression of the shak50 and put it on a clip of it firing, i got the rpm perfectly 😭

[tardy light]

Honestly 90% of the work with mesh is having teammates that know how to utilize it

[slow linden]

I was talking to you I don't know why it made it not reply to you,odd

[tardy light]

which message

[maiden siren]

Yeah exactly goo is definitely inconsistent I'm some cases, in particular open areas as the goo isnt good as immediate cover compared to dome or barricade

[slow linden]

Should be the sounds of a mythic skin fr

[tardy light]

the best trick is to avoid being in those open areas in the first place

[cedar iron]

yea kinda

[stoic garden]

i dont even play shak50 ever but it's just so memorable ✊🏿

[tardy light]

you have to play against it evry game regardless so you memorize the sound and associate it with fear

[maiden siren]

Back to the mobility thing tho, also what about those people who just destroy all cover nearby cash outs and stuff?

[tardy light]

yeah you should be killing them first

its only a good idea to stick the steal without wipe if you have player advantage (like 3v1 or 2v1) or if you have insane cover like goo nades barricades dome, but in a 3v3 if you start stealing while theyre up on high ground its just a misplay even with like a dome shield

[maiden siren]

Or the cash outs that are generally in the open already? Like sys horizon that one cash out in the corner of the map

[slow linden]

It needs adjustment,a sick limb must be treated immediately lest it fester and be cut off

[slow linden]

If they don't adjust it soon people will overcomplain about it and it will be gutted,it happened with sword

[cedar iron]

there are no sick limbs though

[stoic garden]

ok that's true

[maiden siren]

Lower fire rate that's literally all it needs imo
It's not oppressive its just really strong fire rate

[cedar iron]

every limb is perfectly healthy as it is

[slow linden]

You'd make for a poor physician then

[maiden siren]

No I'm not talking about going for the steal, it's the closing the gap part

[timber sparrow]

What are we complaining about today chat

[cedar iron]

I am actually an expert physician buddy, you are dead wrong

[tardy light]

Ohh you need teamplay, like mesh shield zipline, vanish bomb, gateway, jumppad, etc.

[slow linden]

Everything ig

[timber sparrow]

🐴

[maiden siren]

Checks out
Solo queue still feels inconsistent for getting help in that tho

[tardy light]

yeah solo queue is just rough

[maiden siren]

Lwk I'm just here to see how people feel about stuff in terms of balance I'm not complaining about anything being too strong

[slow linden]

But nah on the real we were talking about the grooming problem in ranked

[muted condor]

Someone hide the lesbians

[slow linden]

I was joking gng

[slow linden]

They've alerted the horse

[maiden siren]

Oh well I still stand by my statement

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-ping-gif-25547042

[slow linden]

You need to lose your medical license then

[slow linden]

Fair nuff

[maiden siren]

I wonder what they gon do tmr for April fools

Light with 500 hp?

[slow linden]

Heavy with turret

[maiden siren]

Lwk it would be hella funny if they just make heavy just extremely fast to the point where it's too much
Just to spite the people who genuinely rage at the fact that heavy has no movement

I don't understand the rage they get over it, and I'm an advocator for heavy movement too

But yes I agree with your takes on goo helping
It's a nice spec

[slow linden]

During the open beta all classes moved closer to mediums speed and it honestly felt a lot better

[viscid carbon]

Do everything the community has been asking for then take it all away 💀

[maiden siren]

Honestly yeah that's kinda nice

[slow linden]

Prolly some evil shit like this imo

[maiden siren]

They add sbm and then take it back

[viscid carbon]

Or maybe they’re gonna add thermal vision but make it see people through walls too 😭

[stoic garden]

they will be like "we buffed cloak"

[maiden siren]

Ahem Recon sense ahem

[viscid carbon]

Except with insane contrast

[slow linden]

They'll probably never give it back

[maiden siren]

"guys we gave melee a buff"
20m range

[slow linden]

Made spear 20 meters long

[maiden siren]

My spear already 20 m long

Avg

[slow linden]

Those blue rhinoceros pills from the gas station must be strong

[compact tundra]

Turns spear into a pike for the rebalance

[slow linden]

Make it do infinitely scaling damage based on you or your enemy's momentum 😈

[compact tundra]

That's the scariest sword counter I've never heard of

[compact tundra]

Stays active while being winched so the winch user gets their cheeks spread

[slow linden]

I'd love it so much imo

[slow linden]

It'd be really fucking funny

[compact tundra]

I will say it would be funny

It be like the CL-40 on crack, doesn't do shit to heavies (besides winch) but spreads lights wide open

[slow linden]

I think it'd be really balanced since it's hard for heavy to gain and keep momentum

[fleet siren]

[slow linden]

Also idk cl40 can melt heavy if you potato him back to back

[fossil elk]

What do you guys think about this:
New melee boring edition

Heavy

Chainsaw
60 damage
180 swings per minute
Secondary
You rev 3 times in 1 second while you were doing this you cannot move
And then you no longer swing your weapon for 5 seconds
But you’re weapon will be active in front of you dealing 400 DPS you can run while active and people you hit can’t move while you’re attacking them
(this weapon will constantly make noise which is audible from 10 m away and when swinging it is audible from 20 m away, secondary is twice as loud)(swinging does 200 structural damage and secondary does 850 structural damage per second for reference a standard wall has 1800 structural HP)

claymore
104 damage
75 swings per minute
Secondary
When you use your secondary it drains your HP and evenly gives it to all players within a 2m radius
Your HP drains at constant rate of 50 DPS
and also increases the damage of your next attack based off of how much you healed with the weapon up to 304 damage for the next attack
(heals all teammates and enemies 80 HPS and you cannot move during the secondary and takes 1 second to cancel)

Medium

fire axe
130 damage
120 swings per minute
Secondary
Axe throw throws weapon dealing 145 damage which takes 1 second to throw
Once you throw it you can summon it back to you and can hit enemies while it’s coming back
(when it is blocked it gets deflected wherever you were aiming no matter what the weapon is)(secondary headshot damage is 2x and can go through multiple people)(main attack has 0.2 m less range because you’re using 2 hands)(secondary moves at 15 m a second and can go up to 20 m)

Knuckledusters
108 damage
180 swings per minute
Secondary
run at the same speed of the light while holding it down but cannot turn while using specialization and when you release you do an uppercut attack which sends your opponent 3 m in the air and deals 245 damage (Has no lunge)(secondary attack takes 0.4 seconds)

Light

Whip
60 damage
180 swings per minute
Secondary
You can Swing from any corner that is 3 m away Which takes 1 second
When used on a player it grabs them and throws them behind you and sends you 3 m in the air and moves you forward at the same speed and momentum of a evasive dash(your attack range is 3m but your secondary can reach 5 because you’re holding about half of the length)

Flail
130-160
190-220
250-280 damage
90 swings per minute
Secondary
You spin the flail for 1 second and then are send 10m into the air in 0.5 seconds if you hit anyone while ascending it will deal 320 damage
(perfectly timed hits will deal extra damage
You can also charge up an attack Which takes 0.25 seconds you can charge up 3 tears of attacks)(secondary ascending only takes 0.5 seconds)

[lime bloom]

no

[limber rune]

whyd you post that in game feedback too

[fossil elk]

Because I want it in the game

[limber rune]

not what that channels for

[sudden pewter]

Cease

[limber rune]

its for feedback not ideas

[fossil elk]

That is feedback

[lime bloom]

Even then, the ideas range from ridiculous to overpowered

[limber rune]

https://giphy.com/gifs/meme-dumb-patrik-YQEonPuGxFW9oiVGHB

[fossil elk]

How is that? Let’s discuss balance

[lime bloom]

I am very certain that 130 damage with 2 swings per second is the highest dps out of anything in the game

[limber rune]

no gif perms ☹️

[fossil elk]

It’s it’s for medium and you cannot block

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/bh187-spongebob-patrick-star-derp-duh-gif-21500047

[lime bloom]

Doesn't matter, you have demat and goo, you have a heavy with lockbolt and claw

You can also throw for 145 and damage on the way back, that is insanely overpowered

[limber rune]

https://giphy.com/gifs/reels-putin-edited-VTRhscYhoLEQEEdWWh

[lime bloom]

Hold up, 2x multiplier to the head, what

[sudden pewter]

My god it was a mistake to read that wall of dogshit.

[fossil elk]

It’s 260 DPS on a melee weapon

[lime bloom]

Even old sledge doesn't get anywhere close to that level of damage

[sudden pewter]

None of these are fit for The Finals.

[fossil elk]

It’s on medium and medium can block bullets this can’t

[lime bloom]

The only thing that can possibly get that level is M11, but by the way, you can quick melee to instant kill Light

[fossil elk]

How is that?

[lime bloom]

That doesn't matter, they're dead before they can do anything

[sudden pewter]

@Grok Send in the assault roomba

[fossil elk]

Melee is bad

[lime bloom]

The knuckle dusters are less egregious but still a nightmare, even more dps but less range, like bruh

[sudden pewter]

@slow linden We’ve got another lolcow

OH MY GOD ITS YOU

[lime bloom]

Also the flail idea sounds like we're just deleting Dagger from existence

[sudden pewter]

ITS THE FUCKING STAMINA SYSTEM GUY HOLY SHIT

[fossil elk]

How is that?

[sudden pewter]

@compact tundra I FOUND HIM I TOLD YOU HES REAL

[lime bloom]

What's the point to dedicating your entire loadout and playstyle to risky backstabs, when you can use a safer option that does the same damage

[fossil elk]

You can only do that damage when they’re above your

[lime bloom]

250-280 though lower than dagger, is still above Sniper as the 2nd highest single hit damage in the game

[sudden pewter]

Don’t even bother this is a repeat offender

[fossil elk]

But the swing speed is lower

[lime bloom]

Bernal, Horizon and Monaco have a lot of scenarios where the lowground is an advantage

[lime bloom]

Doesn't matter, it's +240 damage, instant killing 2/3 classes

[fossil elk]

It cannot break through walls and they have to be at least 10 m above you

[fossil elk]

It makes noise

[lime bloom]

Nevermind, the more downsides you mention it now just sounds like worse dagger

Claymore idea would be fine but it's useless because emitter exists, why drain your hp when you already have a gadget that does AoE healing

Not to mention your Med can also use Medibeam or Data reshaper for health canisters

[fossil elk]

Because it increases your damage

[lime bloom]

Just run Sledge

[fossil elk]

But if you drain 200 of your own HP, your next attack will be 304 damage

[lime bloom]

Nevermind I didn't notice the damage buff, what in the world, 304 damage for Heavy

[fossil elk]

You have to drain 200 of your own health damage for one attacked

[lime bloom]

Because 175 isn't enough apparently, 304 after a claw

[lime bloom]

Medibeam can heal about 270 before overheating

[slow linden]

I knew there was something not right about this dweeb,this mf said Sledge deserved the berfs and that winch belongs in the game

[lime bloom]

As much as I dislike Finals balancing, don't make Embark let the community balance the game we can not cook

[slow linden]

WAit wrong guy

[lime bloom]

I now whole heartedly take back my criticism about P90

[fossil elk]

Why not I can cook

[sudden pewter]

All of these weapons sound like they’re Smite abilities. Completely out of the question to add these into The Finals. Weapons are supposed to be intuitive, lunging with a sword, overhead swing with a sledge. These are grounded, you can look at a weapon and immediately tell what it’s doing.

These proposed weapons make 0 sense and seem to belong in a completely separate game. Draining health to boost damage? A +10m upswing? Absolutely not

[slow linden]

Still a dweeb tho

[lime bloom]

This balancing is some Overwatch tier balancing, what in the heck

[slow linden]

Yo what do you think of the spear change I talked about like an hour ago

[lime bloom]

I like playing Overwatch because it feels so bombastic and stupid to a point that I can't take it seriously as a comp game

[fossil elk]

What is not intuitive

[lime bloom]

I feel like Chimera could use a small rework to have it lean less from an annoying mid range weapon to the actual design of up close damage with movement, even if that conflicts with P90 just 2 seasons earlier

With the main idea I currently have which I've seen from here, make it projectile based

[maiden siren]

I just say lower the fire rate because the ttk is very high at the moment
With the broken hip fire I don't think it should have that good of a fire rate

[fossil elk]

But the range though

[maiden siren]

The range is perfectly fine it's just the ttk that makes it seem really bad
Obviously its broken if they're able to kill you that fast like that

[fossil elk]

How fast is it?

[maiden siren]

It's only effective up to 20m it's not as bad as you think
Idk the exact rate of fire but it could be compared to v95 fire rate

[fossil elk]

So you don’t even know the damage but you’re saying it’s overpowered

[maiden siren]

No the fire rate not the dmg
Also didn't say overpowered I don't think it's toooo oppressive
Just needs like a little tweak on the rate of fire

[fossil elk]

You literally said it’s broken

[maiden siren]

The ttk is but again rof not dmg
Mb

[lime bloom]

Barricade work challenge; Impossible

[fossil elk]

It is 45 damage per shot and it does 180 DPS

[maiden siren]

The main point I'm trying to get across though is that it definitely can't be considered op compared to past meta weapons
Imo it just need smaller tweaks and not full mega nerfs on range or dmg

[maiden siren]

Yeah but that's with the current rof
If you change the rof to something similar to shak or slower that would be different

It is a bit hard to do that tho considering it is semi auto

[lime bloom]

It feels like a Light weapon on Med

[maiden siren]

Yeah but again we've seen worse in metas before honestly

[fossil elk]

Such as the modern fcar

[lime bloom]

Season 8

[maiden siren]

Ehh I think that's perfectly fine
I would agree if it was the season 1-3 fcar with 20 rounds

[lime bloom]

Modern FCAR is fine honestly, it needed a bit more damage as the pre-buff version was in an odd spot

[maiden siren]

I still have a clip of that monstrosity

[lime bloom]

I phrased that way wrong, it didn't necessarily need it but rather it majorly benefits it and gives Med more options

AKM is still good for shields, FCAR is now better at murder

[maiden siren]

Mhm I agree
It's definitely not oppressive rn

[fossil elk]

So you think 207 DPS is good

[lime bloom]

I just keep underestimating it because I keep thinking it's the nerfed version

[lime bloom]

It's supposed to kill Med a little over a second

[maiden siren]

Yeah it's fine that's assuming you hit all your shots

[fossil elk]

It’s completely oppressive to AK

[lime bloom]

No AKM kills not much slower

[fossil elk]

Seven damage seven damage is a lot of damage

[tame aspen]

292 days of waiting for content on light

[maiden siren]

Yeah but less dmg per mag

[fossil elk]

It reloads in half the time

[lime bloom]

It's a 0.09 difference between ak and fcar

[fossil elk]

If you’re in the pro scene, you just can’t win with AK

[maiden siren]

Which means that akm is more forgiving and fcar needs more accuracy

[lime bloom]

Your strafes are bad

[fossil elk]

If no one is missing, you’re dying

[maiden siren]

But were not pros
The game is never gonna be truly truly balanced cuz that's Boring

[lime bloom]

Yes, but that's the absolute theoretical pixel perfect aim hypothetical, aka not realistic

[maiden siren]

It's the finals not valorant or seige

[fossil elk]

It wouldn’t be boring there would be infinite possibilities. Everything would be balanced, and you could do anything in the win. That is much more fun than this abysmal dog shit

[maiden siren]

Last time I checked there worse comparisons of weapons out there, look at spear

[fossil elk]

Spears been dead since it was born

[maiden siren]

Not since when it was born lwk it was pretty good on release

[lime bloom]

Thing about FCAR is that remember it has a lower fire rate, so the the dps is balanced out to be not much higher than AKM

[maiden siren]

Mhm which is literally my point in the chimera

The lower fire rate makes the DPS and ttk much less oppressive

[lime bloom]

Yeah, especially when the point of reference is pike

Pike is worse at everything but range and has 4 damage, which only crosses 1 threshold

[maiden siren]

But yeah it's not a significant difference between akm and fcar
There will always be one better than the other at somr point in time
You have to accept that

[fossil elk]

But at least there has burst damage

[fossil elk]

They were balanced before this update

[lime bloom]

No, the increased damage of Pike is irrelevant by the low fire rate, it balances out to doing no damage

Besides, Famas does more

[maiden siren]

Yeah but the tweak was just a rate of fire tweak
They didn't change dmg or anything so you cant complain about that
Ttk was never the point with akm it was dmg per mag and consistency/forgiving performance

Its the beginnee friendly ar

[lime bloom]

AKM is the easy to use generalist, FCAR is the nuanced mid ranged sidegrade

[fossil elk]

I think they should balance the game assuming that everyone is incredibly good and no one misses

[compact tundra]

Im so confused, who'd we find

[maiden siren]

That would kill the player base
New player experience would be horrible

Veteran players would be eating good but at what cost?

[fossil elk]

How if bad players play against bad players then it’s the same

[maiden siren]

The player base is too small 😭
There are many new players queueing with experienced ones

[lime bloom]

Players miss a lot, not to mention the tiny millisecond differences are not realistic in an actual game

[fossil elk]

Then I could finally go into Ruby with my riot shield

[lime bloom]

If it was a big deal, then why is XP still underperforming vs ARN

[maiden siren]

This explains it all

[fossil elk]

People who miss lose people who don’t win like CS go

[lime bloom]

Pros still kill with bodyshot sprays instead of perfect headshots

[maiden siren]

Also like read that again that sounds so unrealistic 😭😭

[lime bloom]

Then why is Sniper still bottom tier

[fossil elk]

Why?

[fossil elk]

It isn’t your bad

[maiden siren]

Because ur expecting perfection which is obviously not realistic

[lime bloom]

A reason why M11 damage is high is becuase you get so close, you lower the risk of missing to max out the dps

[maiden siren]

Ik damn well you have no perfect aim

[lime bloom]

No one does

[fossil elk]

I only hit head shots

[maiden siren]

Also if that riot shield thing is real you don't aim at all 😭

[maiden siren]

Sure buddy and I'm a pro player

[fossil elk]

I have to aim at the hit box of the melee opponents to block it

[maiden siren]

Surprised you aren't too

What does that even mean wait what 😭

[lime bloom]

It's really generous vs hitscan

[fossil elk]

No, it’s not they can just shoot your feet

[maiden siren]

Anyways I'm done just face the facts that if the finals wants to continue they have to leave at least a few beginniner friendly options

[sudden pewter]

Stamina System Guy (He’s back with more coal)

[fossil elk]

Obviously, some things are gonna be easier to use, but I don’t think anything should be just for beginners

[lime bloom]

I meant hitting your swings vs your shots

[slow linden]

I think the weapons are cool but the gimmicks you attached to them are just stupid and half of them could easily be Sledge skins

[maiden siren]

Then why u arguing about akm and fcar viability when they're about the same 😭
If it's barely noticeable then it doesn't matter that one can perform slightly better

[fossil elk]

Anything can be a slut skin that is the stupidest point I’ve ever heard
and how are the gimmicks stupid which ones do not belong

[sudden pewter]

All of them

[fossil elk]

If car should have slightly less DPS because it’s range

[fossil elk]

You can’t just say that I can say all of your face is stupid. Tell me the facts.

[maiden siren]

Recoil sir recoil
Most of the time you can't hit all those shots from that range

[lime bloom]

No

[slow linden]

Like,I want a chainsaw,but I don't want whatever goyslop this guy is pushing lmao

[sudden pewter]

I tried to and you just replied “What isn’t intuitive” because you clearly aren’t capable of understanding it

[lime bloom]

If FCAR gets nerfed by high dps, AKM will get nerfed, and every automatic and singleshot and burst in the game

[fossil elk]

You still haven’t said anything you’re just yapping with no words

[maiden siren]

Bros pushing for valorant level balance when we literally have finger guns and big hammer in the game 😭

[sudden pewter]

I expected nothing from you and I’m still left disappointed

[slow linden]

Honestly good,autos and poke are stinky

[fossil elk]

I don’t see silly. I see game mechanics I want balance I want fun.

[muted condor]

No clue what the argument is but Catter is probably right

[lime bloom]

People will soon say melee is too strong and nerf sledge

[fossil elk]

Still spouting gibberish for no reason say something with meaning

[sudden pewter]

Sledge is the only good melee in the game

[lime bloom]

It is

[slow linden]

Probably light main tourists from cod

[maiden siren]

Okay play another game if you don't like the CORE mechanics of the game

[sudden pewter]

Erm this is an FPS there shouldn’t even be melee weapons

[slow linden]

Good in quotations

[fossil elk]

I do like the core mechanics of the game and I’m creating weapons that abide by them

[lime bloom]

no

[slow linden]

Uhhhhh yea

[fossil elk]

This is a virtual game show to entertain, and please the crowds which one sounds more entertaining two people standing in a doorway, shooting straight or an epic melee battle with people flying everywhere

[maiden siren]

Every weapon is strong you just have to play by their separate playstyles (with some obvious neglected exceptions)
There's just some weapons that are easier to be consistent with and some that demand higher skill

[maiden siren]

Yeah I agree with you on this ur first take that I can fully agree with

[lime bloom]

My main problem is that all of these ideas circle back to problems the game had, like season 6 was not fun because it over centralized over Sledge and Cerb

The game should be a chaotic gameshow but sometimes it's not fun losing by something random like that

[fossil elk]

Who are you talking to?

[lime bloom]

Just in general, Sledge shouldn't be reverted because the end of season 6 was bad by how dominant Sledge and Cerb were

They were too dominant and over centralized unless you roll Monaco

[maiden siren]

Yeah but remember it's really hard to make the game viable with both melee and guns
They experiment, they nerf
Most of the time it just takes time

[lime bloom]

Exactly, Sledge needeed that nerf as it eclipsed both Melee and Ranged weapons

[sudden pewter]

None of what you’ve suggested abide by the game or its rules. It’s like you’re trying to suggest weapons for a completely different game. You cannot seem to grasp why nobody likes your suggestions. They aren’t intuitive. They don’t fit with what’s already in the game.

A big sword? I’ll bet it does wide sweeping slashes.
No, it drains health to deal increased damage.
A flail? I’ll bet it’s slow but hits hard. (Sledge exists)
Nope. It does an anime uppercut that launches you 10m into the air.

[fossil elk]

make it obvious like how the dagger makes a obnoxiously loud noise when you charge it and also we literally have clowns running around throwing forks and knives at you

[sudden pewter]

Suggesting awful stuff that doesn’t abide by the game and its logic and responding with “it’s a gameshow” isn’t an argument.

[lime bloom]

Dagger doesn't need a nerf like that, it's currently like bottom 5 in the game

Bruh, bottom 1 and 2 are Heavy weapons

[fossil elk]

I didn’t make that up. That’s already in the game.

[fossil elk]

So how is dual blades and spear? Intuitive

[lime bloom]

Oh right the charge up, if you hear it I have no idea what the Light is doing

[fossil elk]

And also most people don’t even know that dagger can backstab

[lime bloom]

It's in the description before you even unlock it

[maiden siren]

In all honesty the game has been the most balanced this season than any other point in time (I argue for season 2 as well but 🤷)
They just need to make the worse weapons more viable
We're not looking for perfection, we're looking for a weapon that can hold its own in the right hands with the right playstyle without being destroyed by it's rival weapons.

[fossil elk]

That’s exactly my point with my ideas

[sudden pewter]

You’re grasping at straws. This is a lie and you know it.

[fossil elk]

What about spear and blades?

[maiden siren]

That's been a niche pick for a while how can you complain about them 😭

[lime bloom]

Those are bad by fundamental issues

[sudden pewter]

Spear. Long reach. (Spin)
(Spears are not thrown, you’re thinking of Javelins.)
Dual Blades, block, mitigates melee damage and reflects bullets. (Introduced in S3 which was very anime inspired)

[maiden siren]

Like if you die by them you can't even blame your lack of knowledge on their playstyles
They're so simple you can infer their use

[sudden pewter]

If you want melee tech and sword duels, try Chivalry. (Or Mordhau)

[maiden siren]

If not READ THE FREAKING DESCRIPTION
THERES A GODDAMN PRACTICE RANGE

[fossil elk]

Who would spin with a spear and how does an anime dual blades blocking into fling bullets make any sense whatsoever? Are those intuitive to you?

[maiden siren]

JUST GO IN THE RANGE AND SEE WHAT THEY DOO😭😭😭😭

Like ur asking for balance and say "oh this is a virtual gameshow" but you draw the line at wacky stuff?
Even thought season one literally had aliens and Elvis and motorcycle men as their characters?

Even though that was what they built their game upon?
Pure chaos?
Destruction?

[lime bloom]

The area where the game does not explain well is gadgets, but that's a very select few

[fossil elk]

Who are you even talking to?

[muted condor]

Lmao this guy is pissed

[lime bloom]

Impersonator is the master of ragebait

[maiden siren]

You bro you were just complaining about the dual blades reflecting and a spin move

[fossil elk]

I was arguing with someone on why my ideas should implements into the game and how they actually do mesh

[muted condor]

So good at it he baited himself into raging

[fossil elk]

Only because everyone on the Internet is an imbecile

[lime bloom]

Bruh

[maiden siren]

You were literally suggesting balancing the game to expect that everyone is good and hits every shot 😭

[fossil elk]

Yes

[lime bloom]

In a 100% perfect world where that does not happen, in balancing you need to consider the theoretical and realistic

[maiden siren]

If anything ur the imbecile for expecting perfection 😭
It's a goddamn chaos simulator why do you want perfect balance

[fossil elk]

Bad people are gonna be bad at the game and good people are gonna be good at the game we shouldn’t give them life-support

[lime bloom]

People still miss, you can press A and D mid gun fight

[fossil elk]

Because then any loadout can be usable

[lime bloom]

Every loadout is usable?

[muted condor]

And clueless people with a surface level understanding of the game will still try and act like they have a valid opinion

[fossil elk]

Then hide and heal

[fossil elk]

No opinion is valid

[muted condor]

Yours for sure aren’t

[fossil elk]

Why not?

[maiden siren]

If there was perfect balance melee wouldn't exist
Explosive weapons wouldn't exist
Weapon skins would be not needed because what if people can't tell their weapon?
Casual game modes? Not needed they remove the balance of the game
God damn you sound like vaiyaa with their slogans of no fun 😭

[muted condor]

Glad we agree on that much

[muted condor]

Because they’re are fucking stupid

[maiden siren]

No offense to vaiyaa

[fossil elk]

What is that?

[maiden siren]

WAIT HES IN FUCKING VAIYAA

[fossil elk]

We as one

[muted condor]

It’s your mom actually

[maiden siren]

ITS ALL COMING TOGETHER TO ME HE WANTS THIS

[fossil elk]

Who are you talking to and what are you talking about?

[lime bloom]

Strafes I mean affect TTK since people miss

[maiden siren]

IMPERSONATOR IS LIKE THE CEO OF VAIYAA I SWEAR

[fossil elk]

Then stick with your team

[muted condor]

You dumb fuck
You have a hard time reading or something?

[fossil elk]

Why would you think that could you explain to me?

[muted condor]

Reading comprehension of a second grader up in here

[fossil elk]

Where would you think that could you explain to me?

[muted condor]

My man can’t even form a coherent sentence anymore lol

[lime bloom]

That's not what I'm talking about

[maiden siren]

He's just arguing for the love of the game atp 😭

[fossil elk]

I said “where” to reference me not knowing where you meant that

[lime bloom]

Will he know what I'm talking about

[fossil elk]

My point is that every weapon should be balanced around range damage, reload speed, speed, headshot multiplier, and the works not player skill

[maiden siren]

Im convinced that impersonator realized he's hella wrong and he's just arguing to not admit it

[broken mulch]

i agree with that

[fossil elk]

Why would you think that?

[broken mulch]

obviously there are extreme examples where a weapon is extremely hard to use

[muted condor]

I can tell by the way he’s replying he’s super worked up and just saying shit now

[lime bloom]

That's how they're balanced already

[maiden siren]

THEN THERE WOULD BE NO MELEE YOU DUMB FUCK
OR GRENADE LAUNCHERS

[broken mulch]

but generally speaking thats a completely fair take

[fossil elk]

Why do you think that I think they could be balanced?

[slow linden]

You're giving in to the ragebait

[lime bloom]

Impersonator, you know why people strafe mid 1v1?

[maiden siren]

I am but like this is just sad 😭😭
He's literally the vaiyaa CEO

[fossil elk]

To induce a break in focus so that the opponent may miss

[muted condor]

Ag, he’s a AI so that would explain the lack of natural intelligence

[fossil elk]

Artificial intelligence and natural intelligence are the same thing

[maiden siren]

His programming built on "we as one" frfr

[broken mulch]

balancing around the theoretical best a weapon can be seems better to me than trying to account for how different skill levels are

[muted condor]

Said like a true bot

[broken mulch]

which is what i think he's saying if a bit confusingly

[broken mulch]

obviously there are some weapons that fall outside this such as the dagger and shit but those are more extreme examples

[fossil elk]

Spoken like a true taxpaying pig who lives their life paycheck by paycheck only to realize they’re gonna die from old age and life had no meaning

[broken mulch]

makin it really hard to be on ur side man

[fossil elk]

I do not care for you to be on my side. I only speak the truth.

[maiden siren]

Wait I know the solution!!!!
Just a few small changes
Remove the light and heavy classes
Remove all weapons
Keep the fcar
Remove all barrels
Remove the maps
Make one map that is symmetrical both sides
No destruction physics
No heals
No gadgets
Just aim and kill

[lime bloom]

I should not be reading this as I play World tour, this is real brain rot

[fossil elk]

Theoretically true, but that would be fun

[broken mulch]

alright man no it wouldnt

[lime bloom]

How to kill a game with 1 patch

[broken mulch]

now ur js sayin shit

[fossil elk]

They would still be dedicated players

[lime bloom]

Like 10

[maiden siren]

Oh mb keep the monitor turned off
So that way you can't give these horrible takes 😭
Also there would be no fun factor anymore

[broken mulch]

alr yea no this is js ragebait ig

[lime bloom]

It has been since the beginning

[maiden siren]

Yeah I'm lwk invested tho

[muted condor]

The truth of the matter is this guy is using very common diversion tactics to try and make you answer questions you don’t need to answer and never actually say anything of substance himself. I’m impressed he is able to use religious apologist tactics in gaming at all even though it’s pretty weak

[broken mulch]

i dont think that saying most weapons should be balanced around the theoretical best they can be is an unfair take, i just think he took it too far

[fossil elk]

I meant “not” but with perfect balancing your skill would be the only thing there like chess

[muted condor]

If you scroll up you’ll notice he has actually not answered a single point or question

[maiden siren]

I'm telling you the fact that hes in vaiyaa makes this so much funnier
I lwk respect him for his dedication to his takes

[muted condor]

All he has done is string extra questions together in a incoherent mess to try and distract you from his lack of are real argument

[fossil elk]

My “takes” are built on logic and facts

[lime bloom]

They haven't honestly

[slow linden]

Do not slander my secondary sponsor by looping them in with this sludge golem

[fossil elk]

Could you explain how?

[lime bloom]

No, I don't have to

[muted condor]

That’s the spirit

[maiden siren]

Mb I formally apologize

[fossil elk]

You don’t have to but my query still stands and I wish to learn

[slow linden]

You will never be

[muted condor]

I just gotta ask
Did you have a Christian or a Muslim background in life?
@fossil elk

[fossil elk]

Could you explain how?

[fossil elk]

No

[sudden pewter]

Yes! They’re very intuitive! The spear is bad because its niche is so rare it may as well not exist. Not because it isn’t intuitive. As for the spinning; there’s an entire martial form dedicated purely to spinning spears. You not being able to intuit that isn’t the spears fault.

[maiden siren]

He's an ai confirmed?
He wishes to learn, he's an aiiiii

[lime bloom]

However a Famas buff would be nice since that gun fell from grace hard by one nerf

[maiden siren]

Impersonator gpt

[muted condor]

See he can’t even answer a simple question

[maiden siren]

Wait he lwk did bro 😭

[fossil elk]

I’m not saying it’s bad
I’m saying it’s not intuitive because who knows that

[slow linden]

This mf not real

[muted condor]

I’m willing to bet he had a background in one of the two based off his style of diversion from actually answering anything

[fossil elk]

You lose good day, sir

[slow linden]

Engagement bait Twitter account owner from India prolly

[maiden siren]

I take offense I'm religious 🤷
But still as a member of the religious community I humbly deny @fossil elk

[muted condor]

I think I nailed it on the head with this one

This guy is definitely a Christian or Muslim apologist or has a background with it at some point

[sudden pewter]

You’ve yet to make any actual counter argument. You’re impervious to logic, dismiss facts, and I was a fool to believe you’re capable of being reasoned with.

Moving on

[fossil elk]

Could you explain how?

[maiden siren]

God tier at avoiding questions

GUYS CAN WE PLEASE MOVE ON NOW JUST IGNORE HIS TAKES AND MAYBE ITLL ALL END

[muted condor]

I don’t think religious people are bad but people like Impersonator are the ones to look out for

They run you in circles and sound smart without ever forming a real argument once you look at it

[compact tundra]

Omg it's beautiful, is he here, is he among us

[fossil elk]

impossible for a god to exist

[lime bloom]

Would it be cool if Famas got buffed slightly to tone down the recoil nerf it got

[maiden siren]

I think maybe like 1 extra dmg per bullet could go a long way

[lime bloom]

It now kind of sucks vs current FCAR

[muted condor]

Ah, I thought I lost but it looks like he was lying and wants to talk more

[lime bloom]

It can't as it's in a dangerous damage threshold of almost doing 75

[maiden siren]

^^

[fossil elk]

It’s fundamentally broken. It does 27 extra DPS

[slow linden]

It's not every religious person just a very specific kind of religious person,I know exactly the kind of creatures he is talking about

[muted condor]

What takes? He hasn’t formed an actual opinion yet

[maiden siren]

More bullets in the mag?

[lime bloom]

That's crazy, anyways what should the buff be

[maiden siren]

^^

[lime bloom]

That could help a bit, but the main problem is the recoil

[fossil elk]

It should be a Nerf to damage because it already has burst damage

[sudden pewter]

Unfortunately

[maiden siren]

I lwk disagree on that, the recoil is fine imo

Either rate of fire or higher mag size

[muted condor]

Brain eating ameba are experiencing a famine in bros head

[lime bloom]

I see, it does kind of need something as it's not very good, one of those two could help

[fossil elk]

It’s better than both of the assault rifles

[maiden siren]

I think they're the least of our worries in terms of balance tho

Like we need to help the lower tier weapons desperately

[slow linden]

This shit isn't coal its bog peat

[fossil elk]

Could you please explain what you mean by that?

[muted condor]

Peat is actually useful

[lime bloom]

Famas is fine but like, FCAR has gotten so much better and AKM has been chilling, leaving Famas with not much ever since that nerf

[muted condor]

Not a great comparison

[slow linden]

Literal flammable swamp sludge

[maiden siren]

Spear lwk needs a whole remake, dagger needs maybeore dmg so it doesn't only play off the backstab gimmick
Throwing knives just need similar to ks, hitscan at a certain range and projectile the rest

[fossil elk]

It does more damage than them both

[maiden siren]

I'm saying this off the top of my head so excuse some bad takes

[lime bloom]

Barely, it's +1 vs FCAR

[fossil elk]

Throwing knives are one of the best weapons in the game because if it’s damage and it’s burst potential in the fact that there’s nofall off

[lime bloom]

Knives are low tier

[fossil elk]

And more range and burst damage it’s fine

[sudden pewter]

Can we backtrack the stamina system posts though 🤔

[fossil elk]

Could you please explain how

[lime bloom]

Redundancy

[maiden siren]

Anyways model needs to be slightly more consistent with shots, cerb same thing or make it easier to get the incendiary chip dmg

[slow linden]

They do the same thing it's just coal ash gets extremely radioactive over time

[fossil elk]

Decrease the amount of damage that shotgun do and make it so they can headshot

[lime bloom]

Too low burst damage vs shotguns and sniper, too low range and too low dps

[slow linden]

What you mean backtrack?

[maiden siren]

Sledge either revert one of the nerfs or make it slightly more viable somehow

[lime bloom]

Small buff, not a full revert

[maiden siren]

Wait lwk I agree with headshot tho

[fossil elk]

Thank you

[lime bloom]

Don't nerf Model like that

[maiden siren]

Shotguns would highly benefit from even a 1.2 multiplier

[lime bloom]

That's a straight nerf, don't do that

[fossil elk]

It wouldn’t be a Nerf

[lime bloom]

Lowering its damage to make headshots necessary would lower its range

[slow linden]

Here you go,also another kernel of cancer for you

[fossil elk]

It would be a buff to good players and bad players wouldn’t be constantly screaming their heads off

[lime bloom]

Range is the only thing Model has going for it, lowering it is a straight nerf even if you increase damage like that

[sudden pewter]

Tourists ruining the game is an evergreen statement

[lime bloom]

Just run Cerb for more damage, don't nerf Model

[fossil elk]

Here’s a melee fix that doesn’t involve stamina

Melee rework boring edition

sledgehammer
increase main attack damage to 140 but each swing sends the enemy back 5 m
and increase secondary attack damage to 240 but sends the enemy back 6 m

spear
increase the damage of the final attack in the cycle to 145 damage
Increase secondary final attack damage to 210

Riot shield
Whenever you’re not blocking your shield is despawned but whenever you’re blocking it blocks all damage types and the shield sizes increased by 30% and covers your feet and your turning speed is not hindered while blocking
(they can make it easily make it block melee because the dual blades can consistently additionally it can easily block flamethrower because the mesh shield can)

Dual blades
Deflecting does not damage you

Sword
Whenever you hit someone with a secondary attack, it doubles your momentum

Dagger
Increase secondary attack backstab radius to 180
While holding the secondary attack you movement speed is not hindered and you can sprint

[slow linden]

They belong in a blackrock funded red room

[lime bloom]

The change I'm behind is Dagger buff, everything else is, huh

[fossil elk]

Please tell me your exact thoughts on everything even if they’re negative

[sudden pewter]

Oh my god it gets even worse

[lime bloom]

Knockback is kind of a weird balancing mechanic that won't really work, sword's gimmick is useless maps are too cramped for that, riot shield should not be buffed like that it's ridiculous, Spear is a maybe as that weapon needs anything

There is the aspect of it not being active when held which is a catastrophic nerf as well, that's not how shield should be balanced

For as annoying shield is when sprinting, it does need it as that's how you maintain pressure, even if it's a direct upgrade from blades

[fossil elk]

The knockback is to help your team deal more damage and get them off the objective
The swords gimmick is to allow pro players to move away from their victim after hitting them so that they don’t get beamed
This is not a buff to the riot Shield is a rework I’m assuming you are a low skill player so this would be a Nerf because you can no longer run sideways

[lime bloom]

Knockback is what charge is for, plus that will make aiming them harder

[muted condor]

Bait or mental degradation
Call it

[lime bloom]

Reminder that Sword has the clamp mechanic so you're stuck to 1 direction with a lunge, so you'll go in one long straight line

With Riot shield, I was wrong that's a catastrophic nerf to make it useless

[fossil elk]

If you didn’t know, there’s movement tech on the sword when you jump at the end of your lunge, you keep your momentum, but you can turn your camera and your direction

[lime bloom]

There's no use if you can only use it when blocking, you might be slower than walk speed

[muted condor]

You’re actually giving this guy thought?

[lime bloom]

I'm bored and my brain is already rotten to the core

[fossil elk]

Yes, but you can no longer shoot the feet and you can consistently block melee explosives and fire

[fossil elk]

Are you suggesting that I’m not true to my word and I am intentionally wasting time

[lime bloom]

You can only air strafe post lunge since the clamp is still active

[muted condor]

Fare but he’s lacking higher brain function and can never admit to being even slightly wrong about something from past experience

[lime bloom]

You can buffer a jump for when the charge ends which is actually cool, but not 180 or anything crazy

[muted condor]

I just think you’re straight up stupid. Simple as

[fossil elk]

You only need to get around the corner

[fossil elk]

Could you explain why you believe that?

[lime bloom]

It's not even a 90 degree it's around 40 give or take

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/no-i-dont-think-i-will-captain-america-old-capt-gif-17162888

[fossil elk]

You can bunny hop and slide to keep your momentum

[lime bloom]

But at that point you're now in line of sight with no lunge

Since by the time you reach that point, your lunge has ended and there's no hitbox

[fossil elk]

What’s the normal lunge You can only go up to 28 m now double that

[lime bloom]

Also I'm testing this out of curiosity, yeah holding up the shield is lower than just walking, that riot shield nerf deletes it

It looks like it's ADS speed, which is a -50% debuff