💣┇weapons-gadgets

[bitter geyser]

What toxic streamers are there?

[muted condor]

Pro players at large are pussies

[bitter geyser]

Commit just sits in wt, perzzon is chill, the rest are just introverted, uni gremlin are chill, las is chill

Noah zuki are lowk just femboys

[muted condor]

If they were worth the effort of remembering I could probably have a list that would make the big E files like small

[bitter geyser]

I mean looking at how you claimed the game was dying when the stats proved you wrong, im just going to assume you’re over exaggerating your singular bad experience

[muted condor]

Streamer are simply a drain on games and the fact they still get support is wild

[bitter geyser]

Like the only streamers i can think of that are somewhat annoying are carnifex, palma and balise

[bitter geyser]

Because they advertise the game??

[muted condor]

Stream = worthless drain
Simple as

[indigo nexus]

supply and demand, streamers can be fun and beneficial for growing a community

[muted condor]

The whole lot have fucked games harder than the AAA industry could dream

[bitter geyser]

??????

[muted condor]

Bungie wishes it could hurt gaming as bad as they have

[indigo nexus]

and I thought they had a problem with embark, jeez!

[bitter geyser]

Not corpos ruining cod halo bf and literally any other franchise game

Oh but the streamers, what is this cope 😭 😭

Just say you got griefed out in ranked

[muted condor]

I have a problem with both of them. They go hand in hand with making the game worse

[indigo nexus]

true, THE FINALS would have no flaws without them

[muted condor]

Definitely would have less

Season 8 wouldn’t have been the complete shit show it was

[bitter geyser]

Embark barely listens to the pro community either so idk why you’re complaining about it

[indigo nexus]

you don't understand, we lost like 6-7 seasons of content due to TGM!!

[bitter geyser]

And s9 shows they dont care much for balance, otherwise we would have way more changes last patch

Oh but the major killed the content!!

[stoic garden]

so real!!!!!!! definitely not what would've still happened even without!!

[serene glade]

we just need to come together and realize embark balance devs have room temp iq and then go play some monster hunter

[bitter geyser]

Monster hunter 😭 didnt they drop the a top 5 unoptimised game recently

[indigo nexus]

embark should pay me a living wage to do one balance change per week, and it'll be worth their money

[muted condor]

They literally ignored the game for half the season because of them

[serene glade]

i mean its been a year or so now and i dont have issues with it. embark dropping quite possibly the worst balance patch of all time and then immediately updating on esports is crazy to you have to admit

[bitter geyser]

And what have they done this season?
The players have been asking for changes to cashout for 7 seasons, yet barely anything has changed

[indigo nexus]

Some developers definitely spent some time working on it, but the content differential isn't clear enough that I'd even gauge they necessarily did so during S8!

It had about the same amount of content as S6 did

[muted condor]

But leave the multi million dollar corp alone they are trying their best XD

[bitter geyser]

..? But we are talking about how embark has dropped the ball

[muted condor]

They have done jack shit this season besides pointless patches that change nothing

[bitter geyser]

And there isnt a major, so why are you pointing fingers at the pro players when they would have also been fine w balance changes?

[serene glade]

pro players are fighting for literally hundreds of dollars. very admirable

[muted condor]

The major made them stop all changes completely then they promised to make it up in season 9 and proceed to not fallow through (they have done this with every promise)

[indigo nexus]

This would be kind of true if you specified balance changes, but you did not

[bitter geyser]

Right… and this is the pro players fault why..?

[muted condor]

I couldn’t care less about content tbh

[bitter geyser]

Glitch nerfs are probably the only pro requested nerf, but i could be wrong

[serene glade]

i just think the pro players are losers, its not their fault embark is incompetent. but i just dont like them

[bitter geyser]

Why

[muted condor]

Both is true

The world would only benefit from streamers vanishing from existence

[serene glade]

cause i do. and ill never forget the dude whos scrimming dming me to tell me how hes really good and to not make fun of him lmao

[indigo nexus]

The only ruby player who I've had actually a lot of interaction with is a bit... hm. A lot worse than Norcomma is, doomerism-wise. But I don't have a real opinion of that category of player in general.

[bitter geyser]

Well thats fine as a reason, but the other guy is just hating for zero reason lmao

[muted condor]

Nightmare getting bulled into dropping that one player was really funny

[chilly granite]

osorry I went afk this wasn't my argument

my argument is that they didn't spend enough time playtesting the details of the maps

so there's a lot of small areas of poor gameplay

@muted condor

I don't think this is a sq km problem, I htink this a playtessting size/scale problem from the start of the game where they were a very small dev team

I think it's truer for the earlier maps, ofc too

fengwei is a lot better

[bitter geyser]

Some are very corny, I full heartedly agree, but blanketing all of then as “bad” is quite strange

[muted condor]

The tree areas on Monaco are probably the only places I hate for map design

Typing in gloves is getting annoying

[serene glade]

the people i see talk who are pros in here definitely act like they are better than everyone else. ive seen some talk in finals chat or whatever. and its just odd, especially to be all high and mighty in a game thats really not optimized for pro play and also doesnt really have money or tbh real competition. i dont think an esports scene is necessary, but i can understand having it be grassroots or whatever. The biggest thing about esports that pisses me off is embarks full involvement and promotion of it. it really does feel like they negelect the base game especially as of late, while dumping all this resources into making sure esports has a place

[muted condor]

You haven’t soon doomer Norcomma yet. I’m keeping my hate to the reasonable take right now. Don’t get me started on the China shit

I might go off the deep end sometimes

[chilly granite]

emememem I'm broker than u

[serene glade]

mgl is unplayable on fengwei, hate that map because of it

[chilly granite]

thats because mgl like repeater depends on shit map design to be most effective

and the mgl is shit, so it's unusable on good maps

[bitter geyser]

Reasonable points, I personally dont know if we should be pointing the fingers at one party when embark has been known to just disappear when it is required. The major was also just weird on the competitive side because as you mentioned, the game is not optimised for comp, especially for 4 team cashouts. I think embark looked at cs and valo and saw a solid amount of interaction between the casual and com players and wanted that but the way they executed it was genuinely quite horrible.

Of course, the event itself was very fun to watch so i wouldnt say it was the worst thing they could have done, but it definitely took a lot of the resources embark had at the time

[indigo nexus]

I don't really get people making so many assumptions about the resource cost of the event

At least, devtime-wise

[bitter geyser]

I think its mainly just based on how slow the updates became after the major started to pick up

[indigo nexus]

It seemed fairly standard to me except for in balance changes, I would guess it was done over a fairly long period of time

[serene glade]

i dislike pro players for personal reasons, im not blaming them for the state of the game, embark is full to blame. But it really just feels like ive been watching the game die season by season, but then get an update saying "esports is vital" and to look forward to the next major. and its just nah. i love this game but its just hard to play lately

[bitter geyser]

Fair enough then

[bitter geyser]

Tbh the only thing I remember about s8 was the major 😭

Probably because i was on helldivers for most of it

[chilly granite]

been watching the game die season by season, but then get an update saying "esports is vital" and to look forward to the next major. and its just nah. i love this game but its just hard to play lately

litlleraly coldest take possible

[serene glade]

going from weekly balance changes to monthly changes where you get .03s ads nerf is rough

[bitter geyser]

As someone who enjoys watching comp, genuinely i wish they would fix cashout first

[indigo nexus]

Biggest single changes were just P90/BFR/instant-replay, the latter of which I expect took a lot of backend work

[bitter geyser]

I just dont think we need a major

[chilly granite]

instant replay was a mistake beacuse

you can see sussy asss console aim lmao

[bitter geyser]

Those dropped with s8 though no?

[indigo nexus]

oh yes, and the destruction rework

[bitter geyser]

And smooth destruc was s9? Or am i just golfish memory

[indigo nexus]

Oh, I didn't know you were just talking about mid-season

[chilly granite]

perf boosts in s9

[bitter geyser]

Major was mid ish season i think, and they didnt do much mid ssn

No balance, and i don’t remember any content besides like a few skins and recycled wt events

[indigo nexus]

they had the heaven or else and ghoul rush events

[bitter geyser]

No balance changes, but they forced players to play on a no bfr/p90 build 😭 😭

[muted condor]

I have returned from my mute for mentioning my conspiracy theory involving Embark and China lmao

[indigo nexus]

Not true actually, they did do some mid-season balance changes, I'll collect them

[chilly granite]

I don't even understand why aim assist needs to exist in 2026, there's skill based matchmaking and cross play disabled

[bitter geyser]

Ok yeah I definitely did not play much during s8 I remember skipping the ghoul event entirely

[chilly granite]

And aim assist in an esport is a fucking joke

Actually insulting

[muted condor]

Technically I got hit by auto mod for a dumb word but the timing was really funny

[tiny briar]

Hi gng

[bitter geyser]

AA is needed, but it is a little too strong as it is rn

[chilly granite]

No it isn't, there is skill based matchmaking, gyro aim, and cross play disabled

[bitter geyser]

Wt doesnt have sbmm, and crossplay only works if youre console, not pc roller

[chilly granite]

If you're on pc and play controller you should be fed to dogs anyway

[bitter geyser]

Weird amount of hating in this channel, i thought we were all accepting here

[chilly granite]

Aim assist in casual modes is moderately fine, but should be available for mnk too, because there's trackpad users, rollerball users

[indigo nexus]

@bitter geyser
several riot shield hitbox changes and such
winch claw through-walls reduction
dome no longer blocked melee
akimbos more accurate
breach drill buff
smoke nade nerf
BFR nerf

not much, but not nothing

[bitter geyser]

As an MnK player, we have way better control over our mouses than a joystick no shot you just said we needed AA

[chilly granite]

Not to mention mnk players who have physical disabilities and actually need aim assist unlike lil bitches who like playing with kids toys

[bitter geyser]

Fair enough then

Drill needs another buff

[serene glade]

I do love fighting bad controller players on low sens because you can run in their player model and run around them and they can't keep up

[chilly granite]

I have a physical health condition that slightly affects my ability to aim; I'm still above average on mnk if kovaak leaderboards are accurate, but I'm nowhere near I was before I got sick

But my condition is way worse on controller, and there gonna be other people like me but worse, who must play on mnk and cannot play at the level of a normal human on mnk

Why the fuck should people who actively choose controller because they "like" it, get aim assist, and those disabled people not?

[indigo nexus]

because they like it

[chilly granite]

There should simply be no aim assist in ranked modes

Skill based matchmaking exists for a reason, you don't need aa

[indigo nexus]

(same theory that is behind a lot of the game's decisions)

[bitter geyser]

I mean, MNK just has better control over your aim, in sorry that you’re suffering, but this is a fact, roller is just harder to make precise movements whereas the average mnk player had superior control

[chilly granite]

Yeah because embark doesn't care about actual people with disabilities, they're just a bunch of boomer heavy mains who played controller and can't aim

[bitter geyser]

Bro 😭

[chilly granite]

Do you seriously think there are not conditions that are a bigger detriment to precision than controller

[bitter geyser]

Yes but devs assume the average person to not have any physical impediments

[chilly granite]

Mine is a small difference, I would never use AA, but if you are having AA for a PREFERENCIAL CHOICE, then you should also have AA for people with disabilities

AA for console but not for desktop then ,the average steam player is mnk

[bitter geyser]

Okay but i have nothing that stops me having full control over my mouse, what stops me from using this feature

[chilly granite]

Nothing? But gyro aim works with aim assist, input spoofing works with aim assit

So limit AA to casual modes

[bitter geyser]

Then roller players would be at a massive disadvantage loo

[chilly granite]

And anyway, 0.0001% controller player exists too

It's called a controller, not a roller, a roller is a rollerball mouse

[bitter geyser]

Lol, the only people who can aim well on roller wo AA are like grad and stew

[bitter geyser]

Roller is controller but shortened, i do not feel like typing the entire thing out

[chilly granite]

Tell me your a roller player without telling me you're a roller player

[bitter geyser]

I am an mnk player

[chilly granite]

I'm mocking you for being a child who can't type

[bitter geyser]

Oh no my language isnt up to par for a discord conversation, whatever shall i do

[chilly granite]

man if you don't understand the concept of catering to people with disabilites along side lil baby controller players

then i can't help you

[serene glade]

do not make fun of trackball mice, i love them at work

[bitter geyser]

I understand your issue with disabilities, but gutting a input type is not the way to do it lol

[chilly granite]

I'm not, I love them too, but if sereine doesn't think that they deserve aim assist, they really have never tried playing an fps with one hahahah

I said I'm fine with controller having aa on casual modes?

how is giving a small AA to mnk gutting it? it doesn't have to be the same AA

[bitter geyser]

Yeah but controllers are genuinely so ass

[chilly granite]

I mean, the current AA is tuned like shit, it helps people who are good at aiming way more than those who are bad

[bitter geyser]

I tried playing bo3 on my xbox, holy shit i do not know how people aim w a roller

[muted condor]

Mid season patch kinda threw a lot of us over the edge

[chilly granite]

I tried playing finals on my steamdeck, and I know how; they let the comptuer do it for them

[bitter geyser]

The fcar nerf murdered my soul

[chilly granite]

it took me 3 tries to walk throuhg a doorway and I was beaming people with m11

[bitter geyser]

I dont disagree that AA is overturned but removing it would kill the game for any decent roller player

[chilly granite]

DECENT ROLLER PLAYERS DONT MATTER

[bitter geyser]

But you do?

[muted condor]

The fact that they were glazing this patch and bragging about how many big important changes they had in store for use just pissed me off to no end. I’m usually not this much of a hater

[chilly granite]

if you have mechanical skill, and you have good reaction times, and good gamesenes, you can learn to aim with MNK fast enoguh to be ruby the same damn season

just disable aim assist in ranked

[chilly granite]

I assume u mean removing it from ranked,yeah?

[bitter geyser]

That is true, they blue balled us for a week just to drop a stinker

[chilly granite]

since that's my premise

[bitter geyser]

Not really, just lower the strength

[muted condor]

The AA discourse is always funny because both sides have the same arguments and go in circles while at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter

Happens in every cross play game

[chilly granite]

no, what I'm saying, is that removing it from ranked is just good

controller players find a skil level sutiable for their natural aim

and if you're a ruby sweat you can learn to aim on mnk in a month,

assuming controller aimhacks werent' carrying you

[serene glade]

aim assist is hard for any company, like you can witness a game like apex where the aim assist is so overtuned that people swap over to controller from keyboard. its obviously a problem, but so many people play on controller that its hard to justify nuking an input because they arent just going to swap to keyboard and continue purchasing the skins they throw out weekly

[bitter geyser]

Fortnite AA was horrible lmao

[serene glade]

was that input locked for like tournaments and stuff?

[bitter geyser]

Horrible as in holy fuck was it too strong

[muted condor]

My biggest reason for keeping AA is simply a middle finger to PC purists

[bitter geyser]

No, afaik no input locks

[chilly granite]

Can we all agree that AA has no place in tournament play at least?

[serene glade]

like i know cod is input locked for their pro scene

[bitter geyser]

I thought cod pro player was 100% roller anyways lmao

Never watched because of that cba to watch AA fest

[muted condor]

When ever console complains about being at a disadvantage the elitists will just pull the “Just buy a pc then” so it’s funny to watch them freak out when console has the advantage and throws that back at them

[serene glade]

i think it is because its input locked, but the aim assist is so strong youre throwing playing on mnk anyway. i remember playing cod cold war for the first time since ghosts and man the aim assist was literally cheating

[chilly granite]

can't u just allow input spoofing with mnk on console with aim assist disabled in ranked?

[bitter geyser]

I think high elo ranked in cod is either cheating or roller now lmao

Only cod content i really watch is from futives

[muted condor]

Using MnK on console can get you banned in some games. No clue if the Finals does

[bitter geyser]

They added this feature recently

[serene glade]

yeah i agree that its stupid, but its a hill ive wasted effort on before playing apex. a nerf did come to it which is funny, but it was so minor it didnt matter. im just over fighting aim assist because it will never change

[chilly granite]

Afaik it does in finals too, what I'm saying is remove the ban, give aim assist in casual to mnk, and remove aa from ranked and tournament play

[serene glade]

if you bring up any valid criticism of aim assist you just get told to use your whole arm

[bitter geyser]

Id rather remove AA from everyone than give AA to mnk lmao

[muted condor]

Or just leave it as is because it’s honestly fine

[chilly granite]

Are u playing on controller?

[serene glade]

how long has rotational aim assist been a thing? thats always the culprit it feels like tbh

[muted condor]

If you’re getting your $3,000 set up dunked on by little Timmy on the family room TV just pack it up

[chilly granite]

My main contention with console is actually giving money to Microsoft and Sony

[stoic garden]

i wouldn't want it anyway, feels weird having my shit magnetized to players

[bitter geyser]

Its a little too strong imo

[chilly granite]

Bro my testbed fro the aim assist was a steamdeck

I don't even get 40fps half the time

[muted condor]

Nvidia is so much better

[bitter geyser]

Literally

[chilly granite]

Amd and intel are choices

And are we seriously arguing that Nvidia, intel or AMD are as bad as Microsoft or Sony?

[muted condor]

Yeah, but I usually turn AA off in games once I start getting good at them. It fucks you over to much

[bitter geyser]

I mean sony is ok, but ms is shitting the bed lately

[muted condor]

I don’t remember if I still have it in The Finals

[chilly granite]

Sony has done so much bullshit in the past, probably before u were born though Mr. Roller

[bitter geyser]

Nvidia is as bad as MS

[muted condor]

Yes I am. They are responsible for RAM prices rn

[chilly granite]

Nvidia is not remotely as bad as Microsoft, although that may be a simple lack of power problem rather than a will to do evil problem

[bitter geyser]

Apologies that my grammar and spelling was not sufficient enough for a discord conversation, perhaps your standards are too high for me to reach, please forgive me since i require your validation

[chilly granite]

They literally aren't, openai is responsible, there are AI ASICS that need ram and aren't Nvidia amd or intel, this shit doesn't need them, they're just selling shovels

[muted condor]

They only reason they aren’t as bad as MS is they haven’t found a way to charge a monthly fee for their products

[chilly granite]

You should be apologising for ignorance of Sonys bullshit but ok

[stoic garden]

always*, after covid prices went up and barely went down after, same thing happens now with ram, every seller would rather prices went up than down

[bitter geyser]

Nvidia has been shoveling money into openAI who have been shoveling money into oracle who have been shoveling money into nvidia

[chilly granite]

Thinking that a monthly fee is the worst thing that ms has done lmao

[stoic garden]

some competition will be there with lower prices sure, but prices will never be the same again imo

[stoic garden]

capitalism lives and dies by inflation

[bitter geyser]

Oh god you’re so right how could i have been so ignorant

[muted condor]

Also the idea that your money isn’t going to the same people if you a buy a PC or Xbox is funny. It all goes to the same people

[chilly granite]

Xbox and ps both use amd hardware no Nvidia but yes somewhat true

[muted condor]

Blackrock will have the money and you can do nothing to stop it

[chilly granite]

Anyway back to he topic,

I tested the finals free first party aimhack on my steamdeck and it was extraordinarily op, I was unable to walk through doors yet I was beaming with m11

[bitter geyser]

Nvidia is like one of the major reasons for this AI bubble, literally the only reason we have RAM price hikes

[muted condor]

Just buy a console then

[chilly granite]

In a kovaaks scenario I normally score 70th percentile in, when I simply limited refresh rate to 30hz, with no additional input lag, my scores dropped to 30 th percentile

[muted condor]

Definitely a major player in it. Hopefully it fucks them

[bitter geyser]

Apparently they’re slightly worried about openai so im praying this bubble explodes

[chilly granite]

I have health issues that makes controller very painful for me, as I mentioned earlier

[stoic garden]

brogon try to remember shit challenge

[muted condor]

I want my ai to give me cool things like dogs I can humanly keep in an apartment not the shit they are pushing now

[muted condor]

Impossible, my brain is 97% liquid now

[stoic garden]

oh btw today lewis gun treated me to a game of many lights in ranked, i killed everyone

[bitter geyser]

You will eat the AI slop you are served and you will enjoy it.

[chilly granite]

Anyway, you disabled the aim assist because you don't like aiming with it, but a lot of players simply learn to maximise it into a free aimhack

[bitter geyser]

Lewis is so good, i wish they did the same to the fcar and akm

[chilly granite]

Watching a controller player spam ads to try to trigger aim snap in killcap is very uhhhhh

[muted condor]

Waiter waiter! More Lights please!

[bitter geyser]

Cant wait for the redditors to find out that the counter to lights is semi-decent aim

[stoic garden]

this is so real

[muted condor]

Mnk is free aim hacks back it lets you use full arm movement and requires a desk to use. P2w

[chilly granite]

And the rotational aim assist will overcome the input needed to track a person moving the opposite direction, which is simply not ok

[muted condor]

Skill issue

[chilly granite]

If mnk is free aimhack go show me your kovaak scores

[bitter geyser]

Buddy is only using his arm, im using my entire torso

[chilly granite]

Like, do you guys not believe there are bad aimers on mnk?

[stoic garden]

today i also found out i had the haptic reload animation on lewis, shit feels godly now

[bitter geyser]

There are, yes

[stoic garden]

i was one until i started using lewis☺️

[muted condor]

I use my sensual hips to aim. We are not the same

[bitter geyser]

My bad, i was not familiar with your game

[muted condor]

My gaming skills are beyond comprehension

[bitter geyser]

Also, sensual 😳 hips?

[stoic garden]

i just strafe back and forth while swinging my mouse Around the general area of the enemy hoping they die (they die)

[chilly granite]

Idk why I'm arguing this with you guys, you are brick walls of stupidity

[stoic garden]

I'm a mesh wall buddy

[bitter geyser]

Yes sorry you are too good for us, please let us larp in peace

[chilly granite]

Mesh walls of stupidity, sorry

[muted condor]

Hey buddy, im not made of brick even if i am bricked up

[stoic garden]

i play on my larptop

[chilly granite]

I'll respect your pronouns

[bitter geyser]

God im larping so hard right now

[bitter geyser]

Wait same twin

[muted condor]

My pronouns are Charge/slam

[stoic garden]

ambatularp

[bitter geyser]

Mine are stu/pid 🙁

[chilly granite]

But yeah mnk player on a 30hz display with an office mouse is for sure worse than 99% of controller players

[stoic garden]

i may have 50 fps and some of the worst resolution ever, but i sure as hell wont be beaten by console mediums using turret

[muted condor]

No matter what happens ether controller will have the advantage or MnK will so at the end of the day it’s just luck of which one gets to top

[stoic garden]

skill up ngl

[muted condor]

In my case I simply ignore the opinions I dislike and live in my self made echo chamber in my head slowly growing my self delusions

I can not be wrong because the little people in my head confirm all my opinions as true

[daring star]

Yo @stoic garden

[stoic garden]

does this mean that your bulbous figure and sexual hips are a lie?

[daring star]

U own the finals or something?

[leaden tiger]

nah. it's cool.

[stoic garden]

yea i guess

[daring star]

Type shi

[stoic garden]

nonchalantly being held accountable for making winch exist ngl

[muted condor]

I’m twink built so it depends on what hips you would consider sensual

[sudden pewter]

Twink death comes for all

[stoic garden]

WHAT

[wary kelp]

93r is still valid, people overreacting to the nerfs

[muted condor]

Not if I die before that happens

Death as twink before twink death is the only way

[stoic garden]

dead vs lights, mid vs everyone else, not dead but it has fallen to B tier for me

unless you're a headshot god i guess, in which case hop on lh1

[muted condor]

My seamless transition from genuine dog shit opinions to shit post have destroyed bow user again

My bad

[stoic garden]

bounced on it too hard

[muted condor]

Straight crazy style

[chilly granite]

Which is why I think that it's fine to have AA on pc for disabled people, and no assist in ranked for a level playing field for any input type

[muted condor]

That just makes controller at disadvantage for ranked and casual full of MnK players using AA

[chilly granite]

You only need 1hs every 2 burst to match old ttk, thats not nearly as demanding as lh1 to be good

[chilly granite]

I mean every controller player I see says that they disable AA because it's annoying, so no?

[stoic garden]

well, are you gonna hit them?

[chilly granite]

Or maybe theyr just lying to win the argument

[chilly granite]

I don't hit anything with bust guns in the first place

[stoic garden]

he just busted it

[bitter geyser]

My echo chamber is better than yours, git gud

Btw @chilly granite if you’re on a cloth pad, you’re basically as bad as an AA abuser on roller, glass pads are the only way you’ll ever be truly skillful

Imagine needing friction to help you aim

[stoic garden]

lmao

his chamber echo very hard

[bitter geyser]

😎

[muted condor]

It’s all preference in my experience

[muted condor]

This is just factually wrong

[muted condor]

My chamber is extremely hard

[stoic garden]

i will lock you in a faraday cage

[bitter geyser]

Can i watch :3

[muted condor]

Oh your gonna cage me 😏

[chilly granite]

bitch I own an icemat

the original glass mousepad

[austere aurora]

Any tips for the ks-23 shotgun when reloading?

[bitter geyser]

No you dont!!!

[chilly granite]

technically it's a steelserise experience i-2, whcih is the second revision of the icemat, but I'm not rich enough to buy a geunine first gen icemat

[muted condor]

I should use MnK so I can get a Markiplier pad with the knocker pads

Bro I’m having a stroke trying to type this week

[chilly granite]

dont woryy im haviing permmenetna stroke when i type without autocorrect

see, i need aim assist for the ykeyboard

this si who aim sisist should be fore

hahhaha

to be fiar i can type good but it hurts to type so why tpye mor eandf ix errors when i can just elet them stand

it s a skill issusue if yu cant undrestand me

git good fakin nub

[muted condor]

I hate that I can actually read that

My brain has been destroyed by early exposure to the internet so I understand incorrect grammar and spilling better than when it’s correct

[chilly granite]

hahahaha

[alpine sphinx]

i wish all healing gadgets were removed

[unkempt moss]

What do you mean? Its not totally epic to balance everything around breakpoints and then give every class healing to throw off those breakpoints entirely?

[alpine sphinx]

its actually so tragic

hammer against heavies feels so miserable now if they have any form of heal

[serene glade]

It's my cool breakpoint

[fleet imp]

Uhmmm play as a team to kill people faster than they can heal !

[chilly granite]

i mean it would be fine if the brawl weapons actually had more dps than the fucking poke wepoans

but ther'e s0 benefit to dive so everyone's too wimpy to do it so they just sit there taking potshots at each other for 40 mins

like normally heals outheal poke, so the counter to poke meta is heal meta

and then dive outdpses heal so the counter to heal meta is dive

except teh dive weapons just dont

[sudden pewter]

Spear is so broken (not in the good way) Hitreg gotta be addressed this is so sad

[alpine sphinx]

🤓

you can use that on literally any criticism about the game, doesnt make them invalid

[chilly granite]

Also, requiring teamplay to counter healing means that clutch plays are literally impossible which means that you have a garbage esport

Spectator value = 0

Ugh I need to sleep I'm so tired

I bought a new mouse though and it's putting less strain on my joints which is nice

[analog pewter]

i keep thinking about them adding another bloom pistol using the C.A.R. system so i wrote a mockup lolol

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kI0ooBHPefC-Qy3ENVNeCeLPpUzdU2wITpHIBEA4QdI/edit?usp=sharing

i summon @sudden pewter

[alpine sphinx]

why does winch counter hammer more than anything else

[analog pewter]

39 damage breakpoint is interesting bc v9s uses 38 which is 10 shots to kill heavy, but 39 is the same breakpoints in medium and light while being one shot to kill fewer on heavy
it also hits different breakpoints on headshots, being 2 to reduce STK on light and heavy, and 1 on medium - 2-1-2 vs v9s' 3-2-1

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1196056960223674411/1400998710065893518/attachment.gif

I’m painting Orks and the discord notification jumpscares me

[muted condor]

Stinky greens

[placid slate]

The worst part is that the hit reh is intentionally bad

[sudden pewter]

I tried it in TDM and it was so awful I switched off

[placid slate]

Damm bro you exclusively spinning next to goo?

[analog pewter]

chat what do we think of this

i feel like it's the exact sort of weapon medium is missing personally

[unkempt moss]

Seems like it would work well.

Can it have a 1911 skin?

[slow linden]

M2browning primary for heavy,m79 thumper primary for light

M2browning would probably be a side grade of minigun,think there should at least be 2 different heavy machine-guns in the game

And I have wanted a grenade launcher for light for a while but only an m79 thumper would be a balanced pick

Also heavy should get a thomson,maybe even akimbo thomsons

Medium should get like a syringe launcher or nailgun or something

But the syringes are full of either poison gas or heals either because alt fire or because maybe it just does different things to enemies and teammates idk

Could just shoot gas,Could be a gadget or a spec

[versed finch]

why is the XP-54 so weak like I swear im being out dpsed by the m11 9/10 times

[unkempt moss]

The light grenade launcher is going to be so annoying when it drops. It'll be the first grenade launcher allowed to be decent or better.

And then we're going to just have to let lights lie to our faces about how bad it is.

[slow linden]

I'll be fine with it being good I'd they allow the other ones to be good,unfortunately embark are cowards that don't want to let heavy out of the abuse corner,and this isn't even against light,medium is the class they keep on the pedestal,they always get to keep the strong unorthodox weapons and shit the longest

[unkempt moss]

The MGL and CL will never be more than passable C tier weapons.

[slow linden]

But it all ends up gutted and neglected unless it's an AR or smg

[slow linden]

They will remain as long as we stay subdued

They'll keep jingling the mgl rework keys over our heads

The cl40 is honestly fine it's held back by shitty servers and shitty servers alone

Could use a small buff but only when they eventually stabilize the game

[unkempt moss]

Lights couldn't stop themselves from running headfirst in to a childproof woodchipper if it was a Heavy weapon. So we have to make sure the GLs never get too good.

[slow linden]

And mediums will keep crying that they're neglected when they're always kept in a viable and playable state no matter what

The only class that doesn't really complain much is heavy,I am sure there are exceptions but heavy players seem content with remaining in the abuse corner and never asking for buffs and reworks

[magic hound]

We endure lol

[slow linden]

That we do,my flamethrower,goo gun and minigun stay un-nerfed,but if they were I'd probably quit playing heavy all together,I used to be a Sledge main

I'd be fine with a flamethrower rework,but a straight nerf would make it the worst and most unusable dogshit in the game

[magic hound]

Oh damn lol idk I like feeling more difficult to kill so I’d probably just chill with whatever happened if something did

[magic hound]

I agree no need to nerf it

[slow linden]

Badass weaponry should stay badass,it should not be neutered nor should we be limited to the most straightforward and boring weapons on heavy because embark can't balance worth a damn

I do not want to play the meta,I do not want to play winch,I use what is cool and feels good to shoot

[edgy estuary]

Crossbow for medium with gas bolts

[magic hound]

Glitch arrows would be annoying but manageable lol

[edgy estuary]

Yeah would also offer a way to deal with shields on medium

But step on light a bit I guess

[slow linden]

I don't want a direct fire way to glitch,gas would be interesting,glitch would just be kinda toxic and annoying

[magic hound]

True and gas would probably be more interesting gameplay wise anyway

[edgy estuary]

I feel like season 10 will be medieval, I feel it in my soul. Crossbow would be so perfect. Maybe some medieval weapon for heavy.

[kindred gorge]

I love how in the critical moment when I need to lock in I get standstill lag

Every single time

[edgy estuary]

That sucks dude, been there

I just play with the knowledge everyone else is lagging too if it is a laggy game.

[magic hound]

That would be sick they could add a castle map and a halberd skin would go hard for the spear maybe a battering ram for a heavy weapon? make it a more of a mobile destructive kind of weapon that would be fun

[slow linden]

What is most interesting to fight and use is what the people should want,not what is most optimal or straightforward,I hate that ars and smgs are always viable,but the moment anything abnormal or gimmicky gets slightly overtuned they gut and abandon it

But the mp5 terrorized the entirety of season 6,they didn't touch it till season 7,and season 7 was ass too

[edgy estuary]

I could see it bringing a lot of people back with that theme alone too, people love a good castle vibe

[slow linden]

They should really make the spear usable before they give it another skin

[kindred gorge]

Spears good what do you mean

[magic hound]

I don’t really use it is it not good at all? I see ppl get others with the spin attack a lot of times

[slow linden]

It's alright and very niche,d tier weapon,it's neglected

[magic hound]

Yeah the whole knights and fantasy vibe would go hard with the game show theme

[slow linden]

Also goo just makes your spin unable to hit anything due to the hard limit on things the spin can hit at once

So if I wanted to run goo gun spear I would be using the literal worst,least usable build in the game

[edgy estuary]

Would need the right LTM too, like have a full on castle siege or something

Halberd spear would go hard, with a nice spear buff too

[slow linden]

Spear most of the time doesn't give worthwhile reward in comparison of the risk incurred by using it

And it's hitreg on spin is very buggy

[magic hound]

Yeah I’d rather use the sledgehammer if I was going close range it can help a lot in situations

[lucid cave]

Is akm good? Any tips on how to get better at it

[slow linden]

Hit heads and it's arguably the best ar,it is the most reliable ar for certain,it's just a safe option at it's core

[lucid cave]

Alright, thank you!

[rare geode]

alright, who has thoughts on how Embark could make Sword actually viable in ranked play?

[broken mulch]

check game feedback, cookie's is p good

quick summary:
sword haters hate it rn cause the m1 takes no skill and deals high damage
sword players hate it rn cause lunge was neutered and functions as a glorified movement thing rn. yes u can use it in combat but its way too inconsistent, ur better off m1ing most of the time.

both sides agree m1 takes no skill and sucks

cookie proposes that we nerf the m1 damage to 74, buff the lunge to 140 and remove its camera lock, but also remove the multihit on lunge to prevent people from lunging into a group and 360ing

not that quick a summary ig

anyways the last change made sword overperform against newer players, and unusable against players with good aim

[rare geode]

agreed. i think the camera lock is better than not being able to multi hit, and gives players a chance to get out of the way if they are paying attention. a damage buff on the lunge is a good idea though, because 3x to kill a heavy is crazy. also, the hit reg is just awful on sword sometimes.

[broken mulch]

i think camera lock is kinda bs cause its not like its hard to kill a sword user. as of right now if both an akm and a sword user attack at the same time the akm will kill the sword faster

and honestly thats fine, whatever light should be a hit and run, im okay with akm beating sword despite being a ranged weapon

but camera lock feels awful and multihit on lunge is situational asf

camera lock was introduced in the first place to stop people abusing multihit on lunge and 360ing into crowds getting lunge damage on everyone in a group

sword was p much never complained about before the unnecessary buff

camera lock also makes quick melee combos wayy harder to pull off

i started the finals s7 and honestly preferred that sword to what it is now

[sullen plover]

I feel like the m11 needs a bit of a capacity nerf

[serene glade]

That's just not true

[fluid jolt]

What should I be careful of when using a sledgehammer?
It's different from a flamethrower and doesn't close the distance very well.
P.S. I only play Team Deathmatch.

[placid slate]

It's not buggy btw, the hit cap is fucking intentional

[slow linden]

So they intentionally fucked it and made it garbage?

[wraith orchid]

You need to get in the effective range of the weapon before engaging, otherwise you're gonna be shot to death before reaching it, for flamethrower it's easier, but with sledgehammer, you gotta bide your time, or even create new routes, with your ability to break walls

signed: a spear main

[placid slate]

Yes

[fluid jolt]

Do you mean approaching enemies from a place where there are as few enemies as possible by breaking down walls and attacking them from behind?

[wraith orchid]

Yes, attack them from somewhere unexpected, and if you are expected, retreat, and do it from somewhere else

getting discovered before reaching melee range with a melee weapon is a no-no

the only exception are medium weapons, as they are very good at stalling

[fluid jolt]

I need to learn how to use close-combat weapons now so I can use the riot shield...
The good thing about the sledgehammer is that you can break down walls by hitting them, opening up a path.
This might allow me to create a path to approach the enemy.

[slow linden]

Fucking why tho?

[indigo nexus]

I’m not sure how it could ever be close to viable at high elo without the angle lock being removed

Left click doesn’t kill fast enough (nor should it) and right click leaves them too vulnerable for too long to survive against a coordinated team

[hardy dust]

It was always complained about

Cuz its a melee on light

That shits on bad players, so obviously it gets a ton of complaints

It should get the damage profile reverted to 74/140, remove angle lock and multihit as many people have mentioned

Angle lock makes it completely unviable against any good player and reverting the damage profile + removing multihit gets rid of the main complaint on sword

It would honestly be fine with multihit but so many people complain about it I really don't see embark keeping it

[broken mulch]

ye thats p much what i said, except i dont think removing multihit on m1 is necessary

[hardy dust]

Yeah just m2

Same as sledge (which should have multihit on m2 btw it really wasn't an issue)

[broken mulch]

sledge really didnt deserve to have qm combos removed

[hardy dust]

Nope

But embark hates skill expression and fun apparently

[broken mulch]

im not a sledge player cause i was never a fan on heavy melee but that seemed a bit overkill

[hardy dust]

Also great that they nerfed sledge because of winch, which is still a huge issue and hasn't been fixed since s3

[broken mulch]

and then theres spear

[hardy dust]

Spear so ahh

[broken mulch]

also smoke sucks for no reason, we dont even have thermal whys it a 50s cd per grenade

[hardy dust]

Because of terminal attack

They added a charge and increased the cd

[sharp kite]

Atp delete winch. As a light by the time ive been winched i get to shoot like 5 bullets with m11 before the shak heavy gets free headshots and melts me and i cant dash bc IT HAS A DAMN STUN THAT MAKES IT WAY TOO UNFAIR

[hardy dust]

Yeah winch should be removed until embark can properly rework it

They did that to stun, which was much weaker than winch is

[sharp kite]

Fr

[broken mulch]

never played during stun and winch isnt a big issue in gold so idk

never really had to deal with it all that much

[hardy dust]

Stun was strong but basically all the complaints about it were about it being great at killing bad players

Not what actually made it strong

And winch is just a free kill

[sharp kite]

Well EU gold and plat is full of sweaty smurfs and not much i can do

[fluid jolt]

I have tried using a winch before, but unfortunately I am not very good at it and often can't catch the enemy with the winch.
The combination of a winch and a sledgehammer seems powerful...
But my playskill is dead

[sharp kite]

Idk why but i think all my heavy enemies have a homing winch or something

[fluid jolt]

lol
I think so

[near scroll]

what would that be?

[main valve]

There's absolutely no reason the CB-01 Repeater should be allowed to two tap Light at any range. I don't play Light, but I think that it is way to overpowered for one single weapon to counter an entire class at any range, with very little to no counter play. Every time I use the gun, I feel like literal scum and I can't stand the fact that any Light I fight is just outclassed in every way, shape, or form. It is way too overpowered and needs to be nerfed.

[sharp kite]

To add to that the hipfire is nasty and could also use some nerfing

Basically long range monster with good close range too

[near scroll]

what even do we do about peter at this point? nerf the breakpoints and it becomes pike, make it close range and it becomes revolver, like what niche could it even occupy that isn't op?

[sharp kite]

Make hipfire somewhat worse. Drop dmg and dmg fall off a bit

[near scroll]

hipfire is already not great, and if you drop both dmg and dmg falloff it'll be really close to revolver but with slower rof

[sharp kite]

Wym hipfire is bad. Its good and have been killed multiple times bc of it

[near scroll]

its aight but really not consistent compared to guns with actually good hipfire like revolver, most good peter players quickscope in close quarters, and if they do hipfire, they do so while crouched and not moving around

[fluid jolt]

By the way, what do you guys think about Riot Shield? Should it be buffed, nerfed, or left as is?

[main valve]

left as is i'd say

[near scroll]

maybe a tiny lunge buff to compensate the last nerf but fine otherwise

[near scroll]

ngl i like the idea of cam lock in order to keep multi hits alive, but a 40 degree cone is ridiculously small

and sadly, i don't think sword movement (which is the unique value of sword) is enough to warrant not running double barrel or m11 instead, when trying to compete

especially on dash

[fluid jolt]

It's a useful feature for those who can use it. It certainly doesn't seem like there'll be any problems maintaining it.
By the way, what's the usage rate of the shield like?

[main valve]

i dont see it very often

most of the time its not used by skilled players either so i dont really know its actual effectiveness

i can see it being fairly annoying when used in specific circumstances

[broken mulch]

theres no damage ramp up so its hard to nerf close range

yea no i got no clue how to nerf it without making it useless

fire rate isnt exactly high so i dont see a point in nerfing that

[broken mulch]

i think it could use some quality of life changes, like making reload swap what arm the shield is on or smth

idk im not a big riot shield guy that might make it op, prob not but i dont know enough to say anything

[thick holly]

Only major buff riot shield needs is ability to block other melee's consistently

Because real life riot shields are supposed to protect against melee strikes

[rapid cedar]

Guys, tell me what is better to use, M11 or ARN?

[fluid jolt]

I think that's a really good idea.
Compared to other high-powered melee weapons, the Riot Shield is designed to be defensive, so I think it needs to be able to defend against melee attacks as well.

[thick holly]

Yeah, I do not think it needs to be buffed to be a meta pick or anything. I'm perfectly fine with it being a casual weapon. But it does need some more defensive capabilities

[fluid jolt]

As for the shield, rather than buffing or nerfing it, it seems like a slight rework of its performance would be better.

[thick holly]

Yeah, cuz damage right now I think is perfect

I'm not too sure how much more they could lean into defense other than buffing melee blocking

[fluid jolt]

I think it's a great adjustment that you can disable a shield by shooting its legs, because otherwise the shield would be OP. I can't think of any other changes to its defensive capabilities other than protection from melee attacks.

[thick holly]

Yeah cuz I see people judge it's balancing based on it being a counter to guns. But it's more of a soft counter

Cuz a 1v1 in very close range, riot shield does have an advantage

But a counter to riot shield that can basically make them useless is spreading your team out slightly to get different angles

All it takes is team coordination and a flank to take out a riot shield

[fluid jolt]

Certainly, the most difficult thing about using a riot shield is when you get shot from the side while approaching an enemy in front of you with your shield raised. Furthermore, even in a one-on-one fight with a simple melee weapon, you can easily lose if you're unlucky, and with that sledgehammer, it seems like you're at a pretty bad disadvantage.

[indigo nexus]

can't do much about charge and slam either

[chilly granite]

@tiny relic hi are there any plans to do an anti-melee tutorial to help new player retention by helping new players learn to counter melee so they don't geet upset and quit

also are there plans to improve new player retention by nerfing dash and invis to the ground and giving light 180hp?

@tiny relic also please let the UX team know it's their fault that new player retention is so bad, you're doing a great job marketing but the ux is just not functional for many gadgets (doesn't show reload status, gateway's ux is horribele) and that really impedes new player experience

[thick holly]

Best advice I can give to learn how to counter a weapon. Use the weapon yourself for a while so you can learn its strengths and weaknesses.

[chilly granite]

I know, but a new player may well not know

[thick holly]

Well they can also use that advice

[chilly granite]

assuming they don't quit first
which is the problem

gatekepeing is a great strategy if you enjoy dead games

a lot of games I enjoy are dead, but it's not because they dead that I enjoy them, I would enjoy more if alive game

[stoic garden]

https://tenor.com/view/pufferfish-gif-24277414

[thick holly]

Yeah fair

I feel like it would be fairly common knowledge to learn how to play multiple weapons. But it's the internet so it isn't lol

[stoic garden]

imagine being able to play any weapon other than your main

this game lowkey lets you play even the most bullshit recoil weapons as long as you strafe and it isnt lh1

strafing is my crutch 🥺

[chilly granite]

@crimson holly btw can u require emmbark people to put their job in their discord description so I know who to complain at?

also aim assist shouldn't exist in skillbased matchmaking gamemodes, that's what SBMM is for

also aim assist should be on mnk if it's on contorller, for people who have physical disabilities and use input systems that show up in system as mice but dont have the abilities of an actual mnk, or people hwo use mnk and have physical disabilities or skill issues (kensington rollermouse, thinkpad pointing stick, laptop trackpad etc)

I'm not saying mnk/controller aim assist should be tuned the same, but also, the tuning of controller aim assist needs improvement - it's too much of an "aim hack" for someone who's already competent with controller, and not enough of an "aim assist" from someone who is new or struggles to use controller (seems to mostly disable if you give full input on the stick, which is very likely for a new/weak controller)

[stoic garden]

soon you'll be "muted, stripped of all rights eggplant"

[chilly granite]

MY ANUS IS READY

[muted condor]

Bro is still yapping about this

[chilly granite]

bow-wielding exiledplant

[stoic garden]

i hope i can rename myself on finals

[chilly granite]

also as someone who has played FPS games using laptop track pad, anyone who says controller is worse is delusional

[stoic garden]

trackpad would go crazy if you could reliably press and fire

you could TRACK people 🗣️

[chilly granite]

you bind fire to space or ctrl

the biggest issue is sthe size/ (sensitivity/precision)

most trackpads are not very precise and are very small, meaning that a sensitivity where it's usably precise, you need like 10 swipes to turn around

Even using a wacom tablet feels too small

and using a touch-trackpad that's an acceptable size, you'd be using your whole handin contact which would fuck it up, so you'd need a giant wacom tableet really

hot take, aim assist shouldn't be for the average controllere player to match the abilites of the average mnk player

it should be to bring the 0th-25th percentile of players to the abilties of the 30th percentile players or so

[chilly granite]

and I think an aim assist tuned for the worst people on an input device would be a lot less helpful for the people who are input spoofting anyway

[near scroll]

could start by fixing the glitched multi hits where a heavy gets deleted by 7 hits of c&s in half a second

[indigo nexus]

sure, but it would only be slightly less of a counter

[near scroll]

to what? sorry i just replied out of goo gun bias lol

[serene glade]

I always feel like the initial hit being 100/bulk of the damage is stupid

[indigo nexus]

riot shield

[rare geode]

How about a new gadget that disables auto-aim for controller players? Available on all HML, and you get 3x, and ca throw them like grenades

[compact tundra]

I do want to say that I still disagree with your take on aim assist. Even if you are correct and the aim assist works better for people who micro manage their aim to get the most out of the assist, and doesn't work well for people who actually need it, that doesn't really mean that aim assist itself is bad. There's no denying that M&K just has a straight advantage when it comes to shooters, and the movement advantage controller has, doesn't really do much to counteract that in a fight since good movement fights rely heavily on flicks to keep up with the enemy they're slide hopping past. Aim assist on its own is a good thing and I don't think banning from comp would do anything but let you see a row of M&K's every time you watch a comp team play. And I also don't buy that controller is better at tracking aim than M&K, cause I don't really see that at all, and just looking at how the 2 input devices work, M&K just straight up has an easier time with everything, not to mention that they can make micro adjustments way easier than controller, which is the thing aim assist is supposed to help with. A good aim assist would have a place in all game modes cause it's used to close that micro adjustment gap. Tho if there is substantial evidence to the aim assist being abusable then I would support working that out 100%

As for the disability section, I have no problems with that but I do wonder how that would be implemented without boosting non-disabled M&K players. Maybe just a weak aim assist that's toggle-able but not really worth messing with a good players aim by throwing it off slightly?

[chilly granite]

Aim assist on its own is a good thing and I don't think banning from comp would do anything but let you see a row of M&K's every time you watch a comp team play.

fundmanetally this is already somewhat true becuase there's no aim assist for gadgets and gadgets are so important for high level play - the aim assit hitting more shots doesn't compensate for the reduced quality of gadget usage at the highest level, that's why there's only a few controller players on heavy (if any, i didn't see a single havy controller in my testing but I didn't check all the teams)

and this is also why the aim assist is excessively detrimental to casual players imho, as casual players are less skilled at getting value from their gadgets, making aim assist more dominant in casual games

not to mention that they can make micro adjustments way easier than controller, which is the thing aim assist is supposed to help with.

that's what gyro is for, and gyro can probably outperform mouse and keyboard beucase oyu efectivel have two mice with drifferent sensitivity that you can use simultaniously

the human limit of gyro aim is probaly higher than mouse aim, but that's only theroetical

I don't think banning from comp would do anything but let you see a row of M&K's every time you watch a comp team play.

i mean, there's paralympics for people who need physical aids to help them compete at the highest level

esports are meant to be about human ability same as real sports

electronic aids should not be a factor

[compact tundra]

So before I tackle the others I want to come after the gyro thing first because it's the easiest to argue. Gyro is a fundamentally different input device than standard controller. If we include gyro that's basically talking about 2 input devices at once. Also for Xbox (which is what I play on) there isn't gyro support. Even if I paid the money to get a gyro controller, I couldn't use it cause my device doesn't include support for it.

[chilly granite]

I agree, but part of the problem isthat gyro controller is treated as controller and also recieves aim assist like regular controller

[compact tundra]

Ok that I can disagree with, I don't think gyro needs aim assist. Gyro is honestly on par with M&K, it's harder to use but flick stick is so good that it kinda compensates. But if we wanted a gyro players input I could @ happyofthetoke

[chilly granite]

One of my best opinons is that aim assit should be tuned per platform. So it should be tuned differently for xbox, with no gyro, from ps4, with gyro, and differentyl again from steam, where contorller is an active choice, and almost certainly combined with a high refreshrate monitor and gyro

all of the steam controller players look exactly like aimbot

you can tell they're on controller because it's slow motion turning hahahah

[compact tundra]

That's fair, I know roller on PC can get a bit tricky cause of just how customizable it is but I would say they should have a way to detect if it's gyro or roller and could compensate accordingly

Tho I get things like zens could cause problems, even tho zens are cheating it's good to keep them in mind

[chilly granite]

I think your risk the problem of input spoofing there again

one of the benefits of tuning per platform is that you can less penalise input spoofing

there's native disadvantages to xbox even with input spoofing

fps/refresh rate limit, input rate limit

[kindred gorge]

true everytime I have to turn around when I get dashed through I can't help but think of the "hard to starboard" video

[chilly granite]

hahahaha

but the other thing is that MNK is a lot more setup/ergonomics dependant

[muted condor]

I can’t lie I think it’s not that deep

[compact tundra]

Idk what that is but you've decided what I'm doing tonight.

I'ma run KS, barricade, and heal ball
Turn my sensitivity down to like 50, and role play as a boat, thank you for this goofy ass idea

[chilly granite]

people say mnk is flat better, but a controller is a "platform" - it's self supporting with ergonomics

where some people use sufaces wehre the mouse doesn't work proplery, some people use miniscule mousepads, cough cough @stoic garden some people use incredibly high or low sensitivity

I've been to broke for a mousepad and used a sheet of cardboard that my mouse didn't work proplery on

i probably should've bougth a cheaper mouse and a decent mousepad together, instead of blowing all my money on an overpriced mouse, but we make mistakes as kids hahahaa

I would be absoluttely shcoked if the 0th percentile mouse and keyboard player was actaulyl better than the 0th percentile xbox player

without aim assit

[muted condor]

Up until your in ruby or hitting pro levels the difference between MnK and controller with AA doesn’t matter. Same thing as people using aim trainers and super complicated crosshairs while still having a kd of 1

[chilly granite]

😢 don't attack me

my estimatino of mnk/controller/gyro controller

middle being 50th percentile

[compact tundra]

That's not really the point, the point of aim assist is the skill floor gap. M&K both have relatively similar out put at the top level but the problem is reaching that level with roller is extraordinarily hard while it's still hard on M&K but not to the same level. Obv a 0th percentile on both would be about equal cause they're both 0th percentile, but the work it took to get there is very disproportionate

[kindred gorge]

3 stack this and play it on power shift, you can use goo gun and turn the platform into a boat

probably uses smoke too so they don't ruin your fun too quick

[compact tundra]

This man's a genius, where gonna yar har tonight boys

[chilly granite]

that's also my point about the aim assist, is that in its current form it actually doesn't help the skill floor gap nearly as much as it helps the median and better players on controller

[muted condor]

It’s the same as any skill or sport. When I was shooting archery people would focus on buying good gear and tuning their bow to perfection just like the pros but that doesn’t make any difference for 90% of archers.

[kindred gorge]

If we were youtubers this would do numbers

[chilly granite]

I'm probably a 5th percentile player on controller as my health problems make it painful and hard to use for FPS (it's fine for casual games/low tempo like stardew)

and it mostly doesn't help me at all, but sometimes it makes me aimbot - I would much rather an aim assist that helps me be more consistnet at hitting anything, than sometimes aimbotting

[chilly granite]

ergonomics matters more than "good gear" but ergos makes a big difference, I matched my kovaaks pb by using a microsoft intellimouse 1.1a instead of a deathadder because it was more comfortable despite it being an absolutely ancient mouse

although it may be somehwat that ergos make a bigger difference to me because of my health

but I had a friend who couldn't hit any shots and it was because she didn't have her usual footrest lmao

[chilly granite]

Obv a 0th percentile on both would be about equal cause they're both 0th percentile, but the work it took to get there is very disproportionate

i mean, I would assume a 0th percentile player on both inputs owuld porbably someone who recently started using either

most people have hundred of hours experience on mnk from daily life/work/school which also skews statisticis

0th percentile is ether recent adoptee of the hardware or a physical disability or some such

[compact tundra]

So to argue this I would say there are very few gadgets that would actually benefit from AA. Like the only 2 I can think of are H+ infuser and nullifier, but the nullifier is easy enough to hit anyways if your waiting for a good moment to pop it, and the H+ infuser has methods of use that don't need aim assist, like dashing into your teammates hit box to heal them.

And doesn't he point that controller is already rarely used in high level comp already kinda defeat the point in removing aim assist. At that point isn't it akin to someone saying nerf sword or nerf Cl-40, we're removing beneficial features from an already underperforming device.

[kindred gorge]

nullifier aim assist is not overtuned enough to make it where you bank a panic shot you would've whiffed otherwise

and H+ projectiles have a pretty large hitbox anyways yeah?

[compact tundra]

And you can say esports are meant to be about human ability same as real sports. But esports don't have gendered leagues despite biological reaction time advantages, they don't have disability leagues like irl sports, and they don't even really have minor leagues, you could argue locals are meant to fill the minor league role but that's like if beer league hockey teams always had a chance to face off with Stanley cup holders, wouldn't be much of a minor league then.

[kindred gorge]

dang I don't feel like I ever miss them so I assumed

[chilly granite]

I don't think AA is enabled on gadgets at all

if it is, most gadgets are actively griefed by aa being enabled on them

my argument is that since controller is detrimental to gadget aim, and gadgets are more important than accuracy at the highest level, controller even with overtuned AA won't be highly relevent in highest level

Meanwhile overtuned aa is opressive to mid-low level games, and it just looks really really bad on a killcam

H+ is hitscan @kindred gorge projecitels are just a visual effect

[compact tundra]

I was saying most gadgets besides those two wouldn't benefit from it

[kindred gorge]

aim assist on goo grenades would go crazy (joking)

[compact tundra]

If this happened you'd see every pro medium coping a roller

[chilly granite]

most esports do have gendered leagues (as in many physical sports, generally its an "open" and "female" rather than "male" and "female" )

disability leageus are mostly an issue of funding, if esports were as mainstream as olympics there would likely be a paralympics equivalent

most games with self-hosted esports scenes do have a minor league type thing where players involved in serious esports aren't eligable for competing

but a lot of major esports such as dota2 and csgo follow near identical rules on helath/disability as competative sports

[compact tundra]

I have never seen a gendered esports league, I've seen some female only tourneys but those were smaller tournaments with little prize pool, I'm talking entire leagues. Like a women's only major with prize pools that could pay bills, I don't see that anywhere really.

I get it's an issue of funding but even games that could easily afford it like overwatch, CS, and lol, I don't see have them. It's an issue with the organizers not necessarily money.

And the thing is we're arguing the finals, not esports in general. And the finals doesn't have a women's, disability, or minor league, everyone is thrown into the same pot and expected to duke it out. Which is problematic is where going with the human ability argument

[near scroll]

i read somewhere dual blades can deflect c&s but have no clue if its true

[chilly granite]

I mean, the esports funding their already doing is not a livable wage for anyone anyway lol

$37,500 for 3 people is 12500 each

that's like a 3rd of minimum wage lol

and the computers these guys got is like, a fifth of that hahhah

fkn 5090tis

the 4th place money is proably less than the money they spent on their PC lol

[indigo nexus]

only if they were working on it full-time

[chilly granite]

I don't think there's many ruby players who aren't doing the equivalent of a full time job

[indigo nexus]

if they're doing it for their entertainment I don't think it counts

[chilly granite]

so if you enjoy your job, you don't deserve to be paid as much as someone who doesnt?

[compact tundra]

Thing is most orgs have sponsorships and pay the players a wage. The prize pool is like a big bonus if they place highly enough, I'm not saying it's like a great wage or anything, but mixing their org sponsorships, with streaming, and prize pool money if they're in the top placing teams, it equals up to at least a living if not a frugal one

[chilly granite]

there was a controversery in csgo about a female team being paid more than the male team despite the male team doing better in their tournaments than the female team in their tournemants lol

not to say that I agree with the criticisms, thee's a lot of arguments around the specific female players bringing more brand value via streaming and such

and I have no idea what org sponsorships are paying but there have been some which weren't a livable wage either

streaming revenue is for sure crap

no to mention, that streaming is a different set of responsiblites from playing at the highest levle, and I don't think it's fair to assume that people who make their living as an esport player should be expected to also stream to make a living

maintaing a sponsorship and doing media stuff for the sponsorship, I think is a fair expectation

but certainly traditional sports/sponsorships do not require streaming practice sessions or anything even remotely that invasive

And if you think disability aids should exist in competitive play, then that also applies to mnk, which is not currently the case

And also ignores that PS/steam have gyro support and not Xbox, so there's a competitive advantage to being a non-xbox controller player

[alpine sphinx]

Goo gun is actually so goated

[cosmic berry]

tracking dart 🤤🤤🤤🤤

[dim plover]

What loadout should i run when i get back home?, wanna try smt new/fun

[chilly granite]

grapple bow null flash

[dim plover]

My aim not that good but ill try it

[unkempt moss]

Dash, ARN, gateway, glitch, vanish.

[chilly granite]

that is not fun gooking

[dim plover]

Lmao

[chilly granite]

call the police someone replaced gooking wiht a metaslave

[unkempt moss]

Could be new to them

[chilly granite]

could be fun to noone

glich has to be one of the least fun/satisfying gadgets in the game

[dim plover]

I dont really use gateway, thats all, the arn i forgot what gun that is cuz i haven't played in 2 weeks cuz im out the country

[dim plover]

Kinda, is, but useful

[chilly granite]

arn is the double mag long range ar on light

[unkempt moss]

Light sub assault rifle with fast mags

[dim plover]

Ohhh, yeah, its good when i get warmed up, but it takes a few games, and others who just sweat with that gun are like, a diff breed, and idk if thats good or not

[unkempt moss]

Its the best light gun easily

[dim plover]

What other gadget, ontop of that

[chilly granite]

unless you enjoy manfighting heavies, which is a terrible idea on light to start with

[dim plover]

I mean, the m11 and v9s are still crazy too

[chilly granite]

last slot is free; I've been using sonar, but for fun, frag is excellent

[dim plover]

Very much so

[chilly granite]

the ttk advantage is only really a factor if you enjoy manfighting heavies, which is a bad idea at the best of times

if you're not manfighting heavies, then the arn has a similar ttk and can do that damage 3x as far

[dim plover]

Ight, ill try frag

[unkempt moss]

I can't recommend fun builds anymore. My heart has been removed from the game

[chilly granite]

if you're not great at landing frags, then thermal bore or sonar can both offer a lot of value without needing to land precise throws

[dim plover]

Yeah, but if you hit ur shots 😁, i play on controller cuz thats whats comfortable and cant get myself to play K&M, my aim is still better than decent but takes a bit to warm up

[dim plover]

😭😭😭😭, you poor soul, maybe you need some Ospuze

[stoic garden]

i only have fun on heavy atp, sometimes medium with demat

[dim plover]

Honestly, dont remember when the last time i played light without sonar, its too useful but i might try tye frag and thermal bore

[stoic garden]

sonar loses value the moment you hop on vc with your slimes and give comms, and when you start listening from where footsteps come from

[dim plover]

Honestly, winchclaw, and flame thrower is fun as hell being annoying

[stoic garden]

i play lewis mesh i cant relate

[dim plover]

Thats true, i dont usually use vc and my headphones on one ear cuz need to hear my parents so yeah, cant play without it sometimes

[chilly granite]

thermal bore has great synergy with bow since you don't want to peek super close angles usually, and the warmup time on the bore gives you time to draw your shot before it pops

frag is so much fun and is really powerful with the bow since the bow has bad breakpoints, but good damage

but frags are really hard to land lol

[dim plover]

Touche

[chilly granite]

seriously my audio is so fucked, I get deafend by footsteps in practice range but literally never hear them in gamme

[dim plover]

Frags are hard to land, but i remember first time using it i was defending a cash out and im pretty sure it was when you could have 2, and it was crazy good

[stoic garden]

i tell everyone in my team to stfu and stop jumping around so i can listen to people, and i can usually pinpoint their location lol

[dim plover]

Oh lord have mercy

[dim plover]

Thats some good ears, siege player?

[chilly granite]

I literally had no teammates making noise and I oculdn't hear the guy at all

[serene glade]

[stoic garden]

finals is my first shooter

[dim plover]

Damn, nice, well done, that must be some good headphones then, and ears ofc, how long you been playing the finals?

[stoic garden]

i bought them earbuds for 11 euros, they're nothing special, been playing since mid season 1 tho

[dim plover]

Fairs, thats some skill then, props to you, ive been playing since open beta, and still can't hear footsteps, mainly cuz i dont pay attention to em, but ill try to more tho.

[chilly granite]

@stoic garden do you use night mode?

[dim plover]

What a question lmao 😭😭

[muted condor]

Real ones use light mode on discord

[chilly granite]

I stg I hear like 2 footsteps the whole fight

[muted condor]

What eyes?

[dim plover]

😭😭😭😭

[muted condor]

I burnt those out years ago by opening discord at 2am with brightness

[dim plover]

Nicee, that'll be fun to try

[kindred gorge]

I was trying to play someone's sword built and I couldn't figure out how to use the gateway effectively

[stoic garden]

no

[stoic garden]

🤑

terrorizing ranked lobbies with that mesh jiggle

[placid slate]

Do it jiggle?

[wintry trout]

it folds!@

[chilly granite]

@stoic garden can u hear the last guy moving when he peeeks me? I didn't hear shit

[deep karma]

I knew exactly where he was when you got this elim personally:

[chilly granite]

ye I knew at that point but it was when he peeked on my right and I had a 4:3 moment because I was looking left

if I had faith in the audio to tell me if he tried to flank, I wouldn't have gone wide to watch both side with nullifier anyway :/

[compact tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/clash-royale-clash-golem-sneaky-golem-sneaky-golem-in-the-pocket-gif-2425767250376705080

[chilly granite]

I'll try night mode off and see if that helps but the audio balancing in general seems to crap

[stoic garden]

https://tenor.com/view/clash-royale-clash-golem-sneaky-golem-sneaky-golem-in-the-pocket-gif-2425767250376705080

[compact tundra]

Bro had that shit ready in quick time, the fuck

[stoic garden]

yea this is completely silent

[deep karma]

Oh I understand. They jump both times to remove their footsteps.

[stoic garden]

jumps are loud as fuck wdym

[chilly granite]

he did a powerslide before he peeked me

I didn't hear it irl but I can just barely hear it in recording

[deep karma]

Yeah I heard the slide too

[deep karma]

On landing yes.

[stoic garden]

yes

[deep karma]

I leave night mode off and set audio mode to headphones and it feels fine to me

[chilly granite]

i don't really hear that many actual "footsteps" thouhg, I hear a lot of jummp lands and occasionally powerslides but almost never just walking footsteps, but in practice range the dummy walking is deafening

shit gives me a headache

[deep karma]

I personally am I always jumping for that reason, as soon as the jump fatigue cooldown is over you should probably jump, I think your opponent is doing that correctly here

(Obvs not in a fight to fuck your accuracy)

[compact tundra]

Advantages are stinky and lame, y'all think too much

[deep karma]

Just wanna make sure their healthbar hits zero before mine 😔

[compact tundra]

You can do that without advantages, fight at a disadvantage, be based, work hard and your fruits shall be plentiful

[chilly granite]

I just lost 8th place from first seed

my m11 light and revolver medium had 1/0 kills until the final cashbox

they proceeded to get 0/1 kills in defense of the final cashbox and die

I was dead the entire final cashbox because I got killed dunking, and then accidentally grappled of the eedge of the map on coin

and before final cashbox their combat scores were 400/1200

and I had 0 assists... I put enemies on 10hp like 6 times

[muted condor]

Bro is experiencing the solo experience

[stoic garden]

experiencing experience

[muted condor]

The experience

[topaz tiger]

random question but i was wondering what the communities view on the fire shotgun was, ive genuienly never seen it in my 150 hours of playtime and i used it once and got tbagged

[kindred gorge]

Dude I’m playing cashout and pretty much carrying my team because one dude sucks and the other one is only getting his combat score up because he is running straight at the enemy. The only reason we got a cashout is cause I clutched up but then when I miraculously can’t win a 3v1 two times he tells me to “uninstall”

[sudden pewter]

Cerberus? It’s pretty mediocre right now. It held the games balls in a vice grip after its initial buff in S5/S6 but it’s been adjusted since and has remained overshadowed by other options since.

[chilly granite]

idk why they made the glitch impact on domme instead of just makign it an impact grenade

[topaz tiger]

Yeah i used it in quick cash and it was pretty fun but it just seemed like the lobby turned toxic all of a sudden right after i did

[sudden pewter]

You flipped the switch

[thin thistle]

hear me out revert everything (guns) back to S2 balance and then BUFF THE COUNTERS to everything

i like playing off-meta stuff and its genuinely so abysmal to just play what you want since everything is just nerfed

[thin thistle]

non S2 guns get reverted back to their original stats and then get buffed or nerfed in accordance to everything else

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[muted condor]

This guy has some crazy nostalgia tinted glasses on

[brisk harbor]

Bring back the stun gun or nerf the winch claw

[chilly granite]

bruh i need to get like 700 kills to get back to top 50

[unique fossil]

[chilly granite]

damn this shit gonna taek so long

[marsh cosmos]

Why tf is the Nullifer even a thing. Why tf should a dude have an item to literally turn off an enemy's entire abilities, that's fucking stupid. It's just dumb

[indigo nexus]

Personally I don’t have any issue with it. It’s an interesting gadget.

The concept of just taking a player out of the fight for a few seconds is a cool one

[marsh cosmos]

It's mindless and pointlessly annoying for coward Lights who can't win a fight so they just remove the fight entirely whilst they dip the battlefield with a grappling hook or a vanishing bomb

[indigo nexus]

I would say it requires more thought than most gadgets

[marsh cosmos]

No, just point it and shoot it whenever you can't win a fight and then flee as fast as you can with either the grapple or the cloak/vanishing bomb

[indigo nexus]

That’s one use of it..? Goo grenades can fill the same role ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[marsh cosmos]

In some ways, yes but I've had matches where I've literally trapped a Light inside a room with nowhere to go and this fucker just blasts me with the Nullifer and boom, I can't do shit as they run out the door and then grapple out

That's the biggest coward move I've ever seen

[indigo nexus]

Light has like 4 other picks specifically for evasion, I don’t understand taking an issue with this when that comes with the territory

(or I suppose I should say, that are effective evasion. They have other uses too)

A light who isn’t a “coward” is not a very good light.

[chilly granite]

i feel like you should have a bigger issue with glitch grenade

[fluid jolt]

A light that's easy to kill is a bad light.
A light that's hard to kill is a good light.

[chilly granite]

also, if you don't run dash, nullifier is basically mandatory

would u rather fight a dash light or a null/grapple light

[marsh cosmos]

It's stupid and unproductive. Just point, click and the enemy can't do shit.

It's completely mindless since one way or another, you are severely inconveniencing an enemy regardless

[marsh cosmos]

None, I do cloak, sawed off and vanishing bomb

[chilly granite]

well that explains why you dislike null, it entirely nullifies your gimmick

play teh bow and kill them further than 16m away

and you wont ned to be mad about people using nullifie

[sudden pewter]

Reading this channel reminds me why the developers never chime in

[marsh cosmos]

Light isn't even my main though. I main Medium with the AKM and the Turret

[chilly granite]

then why do you dislike null? you have glitch trap to stop me using it, and a turret to shoot me while i'm trying to run away

that's the only spec that doesn't care about null lmao

and if you're playing medium, you cannot complain about lights if you're not running glitch trap

[marsh cosmos]

Grapple and cloak ignores Turret and I use the flashbang, pyro and defib

[chilly granite]

grapple does not ignore turret, i promise

i'm a flashbang and pyro enjoyer myself, but pyro is forsure a troll pick on every class

flashbang can make a much better arugment for itself but you already have turret for chip damage, you do not need more chip than that

flash defib glitch trap will treat you much bette

[marsh cosmos]

I don't use that stupid shit

[chilly granite]

ok? sounds like a you problem then, so shut up about me playing nullifier

[marsh cosmos]

It's just cowardly and neither the Glitch or the Nullifier belong in this game

[indigo nexus]

Every gadget is a click, sometimes without the point.

[chilly granite]

what about glitch barrels

[marsh cosmos]

I don't get rewarded for mindlessly throwing flashbangs or pyro grenades

[indigo nexus]

Inconveniencing the enemy is quite the point

In general gadgets are there to help you kill them

[indigo nexus]

Nor do you get rewarded for mindlessly shooting nullifiers in the same way.

[chilly granite]

you can aboslutely grief yourself with null way more than pyro nade

and pyro is an impact grenade, you do just point and click it

[indigo nexus]

Nullifiers aren’t exactly a fight winner gadget and the use of it can put you at a disadvantage if used incorrectly

[chilly granite]

if you ran frag grenades, the arguemnt would gain a lot of validity

[marsh cosmos]

You literally make the enemy useless whenever you want

[marsh cosmos]

I run frag for Heavy and Light

[indigo nexus]

Doesn’t mean you win, or that spending it put you at an advantage even

If people who had been nullified could take damage, I might agree with your point, but it just doesn’t make sense with how you’re framing it.

[chilly granite]

you make the enemy useless but undamagable, which can buy time for reinforcements for either player

[sudden pewter]

My dumbass light making an enemy “useless” instead of letting me kill them:

[marsh cosmos]

It means that you can deny every fight you don't want

[chilly granite]

it can also buy time for cooldowns for you or enemy

[indigo nexus]

It means you can situationally deny a 1v1.

And again… light has several other tools which can perform that function

[sudden pewter]

It’s not an AOE, and every enemy shouldn’t be alone

[marsh cosmos]

Denying 1v1s is the most cowardly thing you can do

[sudden pewter]

Bro really got outplayed once and took it personally

[indigo nexus]

You keep going on about this “cowardly” thing. Where does that even come in to anything?

If THE FINALS was about running directly at enemies and nothing else, then everyone would be running heavy

no, it’s a game about exploiting every advantage you can obtain via tactics, to play time/HP to win.

[chilly granite]

bro like, i'm all about not using cowardly weapons and what the hell is more cowardly than the double barreled?????

[sudden pewter]

Using Barricades is cowardly because they’re shutting down my avenues to shoot them and hiding behind them

[marsh cosmos]

Unconventional items that warp the battlefield dynamics as severely as the Nullifier is inherently a coward's move

[indigo nexus]

Agh, this is too funny to keep taking seriously now

[chilly granite]

lmfao

I have a lot of l takes but at least I'm not this guy

[indigo nexus]

we should all go to game feedback and tell embark to stop facilitating cowardice and remove the dynamic-shifting picks from the game

[marsh cosmos]

I don't understand why you are defending unfair fighting

[sudden pewter]

RPG is cowardly because the damage it provides could have come from dueling with primaries instead

[broken mulch]

are we complaining abt nullifier??

nullifier is one of the better balanced gadgets

[chilly granite]

no, just the one baddie complainginb about it

[broken mulch]

what does unfair fighting mean?

[chilly granite]

anythign he doesn't like

[fluid jolt]

lol

[chilly granite]

so invis, dobule barrle? fair

grapple, bow? unfair

[broken mulch]

u cant use cloak db and complain abt "unfair fighting"

[chilly granite]

that shit is so fucking insane hahahahaha

[broken mulch]

"he clicked me once and i got nullified" you click him once and he dies

[chilly granite]

I generally don't really mind hypocrisy because everyone has some degree of hypocrisy about everything

but that's an incredible level of hypocrisy

[broken mulch]

i do think nullifier is p well balanced

[sudden pewter]

Nullifier is infinitely more balanced than the Stun Gun

[broken mulch]

not a massive fan of it personally tho

i considered it w/ sword cause when i was new i figured i could nullify one, gap close, kill the other and dip

but u cant do smth that obvious and try to gap clase ur gonna die

[unkempt moss]

Hm

[fluid jolt]

I think this game maintains a fairly fair balance. Melee weapons are powerful, but they require a lot of skill to use effectively.
The same can be said for gadgets. Even if they simply have strong firepower, the user must be strong to use them.
On the other hand, there are also plenty of weapons that have low firepower but are easy to use and have stable performance. I think this is a very good thing.

[chilly granite]

nulli on dash is like, sus, mostly because there's jsut significanlty better choices

but nulli is essential for playing grapple, and mostly for anti-light gameplay, so trying to flame a grapple player for using it is so sus

[marsh cosmos]

But that's a primary and the nullifer is a gadget.

[broken mulch]

u literally cant die while nullified

[chilly granite]

rpg+pyro grenade
frag + 10 damagea

[broken mulch]

disagree with the melee part, i think they're def weaker than guns rn, especially spear

[chilly granite]

yeah melee is pretty uncontrovesially underpowered

it's op against me because my mouse sens is so low i literally can't aim at a melee player

but that's a me issue, not a balance issue

[broken mulch]

sword is prob the melee doin best rn, not 100% sure, but i think it needs a change(im not a fan of sword being an m1 stick)

[chilly granite]

I think sledge

goo gun and heavy gadgets can seriosuly make up for sledge defficiecnyies

[marsh cosmos]

I use M60, Frag, Pyro and Lockbolt

[chilly granite]

riot, dual blades, are basically unplayable in cashout

dagger is playable only by virtue of light being a gadget bitch, so if you've thrown your gadgets u can throw your life away, and tradeups are super value on dagger

like oneshot medium and die on dagger is basically a won fight if your team is solid

[fluid jolt]

I love the riot shield and use it often, but I often get killed in return even when I get close.
Well, I think that's because of my lack of skill, and not because of the weapon itself.
That being said, I wish it could protect against melee weapons too.

[chilly granite]

it does, but hitreg inconsistent against melee wepaons as i understand it, 25% damage melee

[fluid jolt]

I only play Team Deathmatch so I don't really know how it's used for cashouts...

[chilly granite]

in tdm all melees gain signficant value except dagger, which loses signficant value

[marsh cosmos]

Riot shield is a pretty annoying weapon since it's not great but it supports camping and deliberately chasing low health enemies

[chilly granite]

maps are much closer range than in cashout, so you're less likely to get kited out

and tdm teams aren't coordinated, and a lot of melees biggest waeakness is coordinateion

[fluid jolt]

I laughed when four of my teammates, including myself, were wiped out in an instant by a spear's area attack.
But that was probably because the enemy spear user was skilled. I don't think I could do the same thing...

[chilly granite]

in tdm riot, dual blades, sword, are all playable and solid

spear is weak, sledge is good, dagger is trash

riot might be good in tdm, but I'm not sure

spear is "bad" but in the right situation, it can be good - enemies who don't understand it, enemies who are grouped and who have taken chip damage, it can own

[unkempt moss]

Hopefully they nerf the primary. That shit is busted

[chilly granite]

which one gooking

[fluid jolt]

I've only been able to use my shield properly in one game, and haven't been very good at it the rest of the time. I think I got 22 kills in that game.

[unkempt moss]

Just all of them. I die all the time to primary.

[chilly granite]

hahaahaa

nerf bullet - sledge main

but yeah, i think riot can be good on tdm if you understand the map and weapon well

maps are small, so you don't need to close long distances; the outer walls are reliable, so you don't need to worry about flanks

enemies aren't communicating, so you don't need to worry about teamplay

[fluid jolt]

I get more excited when I'm holding up a shield and blocking enemy bullets than when I'm hitting enemies with a baton lol

[chilly granite]

hahahhah

if you have a heavy friend you can be a moving shield for them

[marsh cosmos]

We should be able to throw the baton at the enemy and pick it up again

[chilly granite]

this guys takes just get worse and worse

medium mains man, shit is sus

[unkempt moss]

Brother pointed at himself

[fluid jolt]

I have a dream of forming a formation of three shield users and two minigun users, firing their miniguns indiscriminately.

[chilly granite]

lol that's not my finger

[chilly granite]

I just opened the scorboard in the post-game slowmo time and saw my kill counter tick up lmao

I had shot a guy just before the end screen popped up hahah

[chilly granite]

I'm feeling rly sick today so I'm gonna go sleep early, goodnight wepsngadgs

[thin thistle]

its not nostalgia glasses the game was just objectively better

[muted condor]

Bro doesn’t remember bow unbalanced the first season were

[thin thistle]

yea? so? it was fun. it was THE FINALS.

[unkempt moss]

The early seasons were such a dream.

[thin thistle]

the game in its place now is just watered down CtF

[muted condor]

They were fun then but you definitely don’t want that balancing now. It will just make all the problems we already have 2x worse

[unkempt moss]

This is such an interesting way to look at cashout.

[muted condor]

The balancing is the least of reasons the game doesn’t feel the same anymore

[thin thistle]

i couldve worded it better but the finals now just feels like a shitty version of some other game, it doesnt feel as fun as the earlier seasons

[thin thistle]

nah it definitely is lmao. focusing on Esports was this game's downfall

[muted condor]

Games and player bases change over time and that’s just a fact. No amount of balancing will change how the community acts and plays now it’s completely different than s1-3

[muted condor]

Focusing on esports was fucking stupid I agree

Esports is a parasite on gaming

[thin thistle]

yea cause nobody wants to actually have fun lmao 😭 everything needs to be nerfed for some stupid reason or the fact that they havent actually used the thing theyre calling for a nerf for

[unkempt moss]

The conversations in here recently made me realize my time with this game is almost up. Its not for me anymore and thats okay. Ive gotten my money's worth out of it and im sure I'll play it every once in a while.

[muted condor]

You could revert the game back to exactly how it was in S2 and I promise it won’t feel the same

[thin thistle]

yea cause itll be more fun

[muted condor]

It won’t

[thin thistle]

when everything is overpowered, nothing is.

[muted condor]

Go back and play an OG call of duty nostalgia is a bitch

[unkempt moss]

There was a lot in the early seasons that were bad as well.

[thin thistle]

i have, theyre fun.

[muted condor]

Go play Minecraft
It’s not the same anymore

[thin thistle]

yea, im not denying that. if the counters to certain things were buffed, itd be really good imho

the TTK has been rising steadily and honestly it just makes the game way less fun. it used to take like 2-3 seconds to kill someone with say an akm or an fcar and now its more like 4-5 seconds

[muted condor]

Bro wants instant full health defib chains back with immortal heavies and one shot kill RPGs

[thin thistle]

notice how i said revert THE GUNS

[muted condor]

You can’t just change guns and leave gadgets that’s not how balancing works lmao this guy is clueless

[thin thistle]

revert the guns and buff the counters to things

which means gadgets would get buffed lmao

[muted condor]

Guns are counters sooooooo

[unkempt moss]

Biggest thing about the early seasons is the hope wasn't dead yet. They didnt know what was coming so how could we? We know the identity of the game now. We'll get more basic guns, a handful of cool gadgets that only one will be worth using if we're lucky. New maps and they'll struggle to make cashout competitive for esports.

[thin thistle]

and gadgets, dont forget gadgets

[muted condor]

Revert guns and buf guns?

That’s literally just going to chain back exactly where we are

[thin thistle]

yea some guns in early TF and current TF needed buffs lmao

[muted condor]

Yeah this guy is lost in the sauce

Type of mf to say all the music in the 80s and 90s was good

[unkempt moss]

I understand what he is saying though. This is all a symptom of a lack of meaningful additions and balancing.

[chilly granite]

@unkempt moss don't give up hope maybe today's patch will be nice

[muted condor]

Shit balancing is why the game kinda feels like shit

[unkempt moss]

It won't. And I updated SF6 today and im prepping a campaign to run.

[chilly granite]

"we understand we missed the mark with the mid season patch and we sorry" CB bfr gets shadowrealemed like thermal hahaha

[unkempt moss]

I think the game needs a major shake up that balancing cant provide but that's a radical opinion im sure

[muted condor]

PLEASE LET THIS HAPPEN

[muted condor]

At this point I’d take your Finals 2.0 idea

[thin thistle]

well i mean by looking at ur name rn, i have a question.

Defib has been changed majorly 3 different times.

First, they made it so that you couldnt instant revive (Patch 2.0).

Then, they made it so that all of your abilities would go on cooldown after a revive (i forgot what specific patch, but iirc it was around season 4.)

Finally, they made the Defib charge time take longer by a significant amount (yes, i know a second or two might not seem that long, but for a gadget thats meant to revive people, an addition of a second or two is quite large, and can make or break gunfights.)

If we're gonna talk about balance, I would like to know why you dislike Defib so much considering that its been already heavily nerfed?

[chilly granite]

180hp light and dash/invis get shadowrealemed hehehe

[unkempt moss]

Communication from devs wont save the game, if anything it'll kill thebgame faster because we'll realize what a horror show it is there and that nothing is coming.

[muted condor]

Oh God he mentioned my I hate defib

[marsh cosmos]

You are a rude person

[chilly granite]

KEKW

[unkempt moss]

They target over used stuff yet defib, dash, and the list goes on, hasn't been touched. A handful of weapons are in the dumpster and they aren't coming to help

[muted condor]

Defib is simply a dog shit crutch of a gadget that has no place on the game and is fucking annoy to have on your team and to fight. The game would only benefit from it being sent to the shadow realm

[chilly granite]

Exactly

They only nerf the stuff that's like, 60% or less usage

Ignore everything that's at 90% usage

[muted condor]

I hate defib o hate defib I hate defib I hate defib

[chilly granite]

Defib should've been shadowrealemed when recon was

[unkempt moss]

The identity of the game doesnt have to change to have a "2.0"

[thin thistle]

Lol. you wanna know what you as a player can do against that?

[muted condor]

Banish it to hell

[marsh cosmos]

That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while now. Defib is perfectly reasonable for a core mechanic of the game, reviving.

[unkempt moss]

2.0 is just an understanding with the community that theres big changes are coming and its time to buckle up.

[muted condor]

No one plays lights anymore so not applicable

[thin thistle]

this is the average logic of the "nerf x!" crowd

[chilly granite]

I mean, defibs are basically free kills for me but it's just stupid

[thin thistle]

HMMMM I WONDER WHY NOBODY PLAYS LIGHTS ANYMORE..... PERHAPS ITS BECAUSE LIGHT WAS NERFED TO SHIT? LMFAOOOO

[marsh cosmos]

The dude respawns at 50% of his maximum health and his gadgets are on a short timer. Just put a round into his ass while he is still disoriented

[unkempt moss]

Defib undermines some major pillars of the game.

[muted condor]

I primarily hate being defibed more than anything. Just revive me normally for Christ sake

[chilly granite]

Enemy mediums wasting a second they could be killing me to defib their teammate so I can bow headshot him instantly lol

[marsh cosmos]

I ain't got them for that

[muted condor]

Reading comprehension

[chilly granite]

The problem isn't that defib is too strong, it's that it's both weak and toxic

[muted condor]

As I said it’s simply annoying for all parties involved

[chilly granite]

Toxic to play with and toxic to play against

[unkempt moss]

Defib is a multiplier. If someone has a pulse they can abuse tf out of it. If they are a moron it makes the game actively worse for their team.

[muted condor]

I’d like to never get defibed with a empty mini gun again or fight a demat defib triple stack

[chilly granite]

Defib is very poorly designed

[unkempt moss]

If theres one meaningful change to ranked I could make it would be to remove defib.

[muted condor]

I usually beat the people running triple defibs but it doesn’t stop me from wanting to put a controller through my monitor

[unkempt moss]

Defib devalues light, the weakest class. And overvalues heavy, the strongest class. Its a thorn in the side of the game. Make it exclusive to side modes.

[muted condor]

I’m glad we all three finally agree on something 🤝

[chilly granite]

I lost three games because I had the same medium that didn't understand that defibing a bow light in front of enemies is just griefing

Invulnerable wears off the same time as I draw bow, except my medium suicided to Rez me so it's just net negative entirely even if I hit my one arrow before death

[muted condor]

We’re basically married now

[unkempt moss]

Ive always wanted to be in a throuple

[chilly granite]

They were such easy games to win if he just defib the other medium or use a different gadget

[muted condor]

Defibing a heavy is also just a free kill because of how long their healing takes especially if it’s a mini gun heavy

[chilly granite]

Like yes I was carrying but can you please just try to kill the last enemy on half hp and not suicide defib me

[muted condor]

The only time I really see defib as good is during the last 10 seconds of a cash out and if you have to revive both team mates at once

[chilly granite]

Defib is very powerful in some situations, but most mediums don't understand it's downsides properly because mediums specs and gadgets are shit, so they don't feel pain when defibbed

[unkempt moss]

The flow chart for defib is do you see a corner, move the trophy there and defib so your friend doesnt get mauled as soon as hes up. Its now an S+ pick gadget

[chilly granite]

I gave one of my medium main friends a soft/friendly lecture about why defibbing feels awful for light and heavy sometimes and she's been great ever since lol

If your heavy isn't going to win the aim duel or have enough time to heal, do a slow Rez

If your light is gonna get pushed, don't even bother lol

Defibbing light is like, 90% of the time wrong

Light needs the 150hp/dashcd too badly

And a light almost always gets value damage before they die, so you'll usually just win the aim duel and be able to slow revive if you're not a wimp

Anyway gooking next time I'm feeling sick I'll try to play sf6 demo and see if I like it

[muted condor]

Sometimes people just need to be told they are throwing but doing something

[chilly granite]

If embark don't have actual changes of any kind tomorrow I'm gonna fly to Sweden and shit on their doorstep

[bitter geyser]

They wont

[muted condor]

Send proof

[chilly granite]

I'll count an apology as an actual change

[bitter geyser]

Lol, at least i don’t expect anything

I hope to be wrong though

[chilly granite]

An actual change of behaviour lol

Accountability? From my embark? Never

Last time I took an airplane I was sick for a week lol I'm not actually going anywhere

[bitter geyser]

I mean eh, it could be worse, i play helldivers there and the devs lowkey hate the community

[unkempt moss]

This would be an elite feedback post

[bitter geyser]

They are permanently lying and gaslighting the community on changes and they always change weapons like how embark changed the FCAR, buff one value, nerf another in the name of buffing but numbers show that everything is worse now

[chilly granite]

I miss season 7 season 7 was decent

The bfr was a mistake and nobody should ever defend it

The CB was already a problem

[bitter geyser]

It should be proj after a while

Every long range weapon should be projectile honestly

[chilly granite]

Yeah, why the hell is only sr84 projectile past40?

Bfr/CB going projectile doesn't fix them but at least it makes them slightly less bullshit

[muted condor]

AH does their best to make the game so easy the hard core players can’t have fun but leaving enough bullshit that the casual players don’t have a good time either

[chilly granite]

The second they made sr84 projectile past 40 all ar should be projectile past 25 and smg past 15

[bitter geyser]

I never understood the complains for this btw, whY is My SnIpEr pRoJ aFtEr 40m like dude you’re playing a fast paced arcade shooter and you want to play bf??

[chilly granite]

I don't love that it's only projectile after 40; I'd prefer if it was always projectile so it's more consistent than

[bitter geyser]

Literally, the more i played, the more the issues in how the game is designed became apparent

[chilly granite]

I used to be sr84 main but I'm bow main now, basically on that logic

[tight swan]

how y'all feel bout the M60 after the update

[bitter geyser]

True that seems so like weird

I tried the KS and it just felt so awkward

[chilly granite]

I do think it would be cool to do projectile weapons but ping range is hitscan

Basically they'd feel entirely consistent and you don't need to do lag compensation

So no dying behind walls for anyone

[glossy apex]

makes it closer to lewis in hipfire, thats all it did

[muted condor]

The new hammer is super fun but some of their choices this patch are insane

Making the GL heavy pen and deal more damage than the new belt fed GL was a fucking choice

[chilly granite]

I need to sleep cya tomorrow when my sanity is gone because they left the CB unnerred for a another patch when they fixed v9s next day

We should all play CB only so they actually nerf that shit

[bitter geyser]

The hammer looks cool, the tank looks cool, cyberstan looks cool, and i am so happy they removed sway off most sidearms if not all

[bitter geyser]

I dont even use the gl that often and i was like tf it did NOT need heavy pen

[muted condor]

Not the worst update and I’m actually having a lot of fun but AH definitely added their little bit of flavor to the patch

[bitter geyser]

Sway melee buffs were very nice, patch was a good step in the right direction

[muted condor]

It just straight up invalidates all the machine guns

[bitter geyser]

Stalwart should be a primary like the first game!!!

[muted condor]

And I hate the sentiment of “just don’t play with it bro” when you bring up power creep and unnecessary buffs

[chilly granite]

Oghh duck I know why they made js23 hitscan 25m

Cuz conson shitters with aim assist can't lead shots because of the aim slowdown

[bitter geyser]

The entire community is very weird

This may sound strange but i hated how they removed the fac strider physics

[chilly granite]

That's probably why bow and winch hitbox are so fucking stupid too

[bitter geyser]

Winch is… ok now, not as unskillful as it used to be

[chilly granite]

All the embark Devs are controller players and can't hit winch because of aim assist and skill issues

[chilly granite]

The hitbox is 1m wide bro

They've ducktaped over it to make it not broken but it's still 1m wide lmao

[bitter geyser]

Mayhaps, but i see alot of missed winches after the last accuracy nerfs, no more stupid miss winch but slide over target and it still hits bs

[chilly granite]

The arrow on bow is 19mc wide

I mean, have whatever opinion on which you like, but I'm fucking right about bow, they're controller shitters can't hit without an arrow bigger than lights head

[bitter geyser]

As a bow main, do you think the last bow buffs were needed? I genuinely thought it was already quite strong in the right hands

[chilly granite]

Yes/no

Bow also needs nerfs

But this buff was a really good thing

[bitter geyser]

They buffed the low charge arrow spams no?

[chilly granite]

I told embark in my message spam to them that it needs this change, but they should also reduce the size of the hitbox

[bitter geyser]

And something else, bad memory moment…

[chilly granite]

Reload and the minimum draw time

[bitter geyser]

You really hate controller players lmao

[chilly granite]

The reload buff might've been a bit too much tbh, I think 10ms maybe enough, they did 30ms reload buff

But the undrawn arrows are mcuh slower and lower damage than drawn bow shots; it's much harder to hit them effectively than drawn shots and you risk lower DPS/undercooking shots if you do so

So there needed to be more reward for it or less penalty, and this change fixed thst

And the bow was only 50ms faster fulldrawn than the sr84 and it has worse breakpoints on heavy, meaning it's a direct downgrade before the change

[bitter geyser]

Yea but most bow players hit one good shot and then triple dash and start spamming, at least from my experience versus bow players who arent like actual good

[chilly granite]

These changes made it actually worth using over the sr84 beyond not liking the scope

Both the bow and sr84 have more defined advantages and disadvantages now

That's a terrible way to play the bow and they're not getting good value from it

Light shots are what you should do to finish a light at range, but agained medium or heavy, full draw is vastly better