💣┇weapons-gadgets

[indigo nexus]

A direct hit does like 74 damage if the enemy immediately starts running.

if they stood there for a couple of seconds it would be ~130

[candid vessel]

Theres no way its that much

Ive got level 13 pyro and ive direct hitted many people and its never done that much without them standing in it

[indigo nexus]

it's possible my memory is skewed but I do run it somewhat often

[candid vessel]

I basically never leave without it

So much goo everywhere all the time. And its good for finishing people, but only if they’re on like 30 health ish. 50 or more and they’ll survive.

[plucky spade]

Destroy middle goo blob and the wall falls

[indigo nexus]

it definitely deals 50+ on a direct hit

[slender fiber]

goo grenade is epic I love it

also frag is better at removing goo than pyro nade

[candid vessel]

True, but often i find that setting fire to the goo so all the enemies inside the room focus on that, then finding another way in to surprise them can work

[candid vessel]

Really? It feels like it’s slightly less than that. If its a known fact im not denying it but it just doesn’t feel that much to me

[plucky spade]

Ngl when I see a guy engage with a pyro nade I know I won this fight

[indigo nexus]

that seems an odd stance

[wide stratus]

New akimbo skin is so cool wtf

[plucky spade]

Why? You spend a second chucking that thing while i take 100 hp from you

[indigo nexus]

well, that would be a stupid use of it. I'm not sure why you would use that scenario.

[plucky spade]

Happens more often than you think

[turbid finch]

he

[shell sonnet]

another goated cosmetic pack locked behind an artificial paywall while i have 5.000 multibucks lying around

[rocky tapir]

1.33 more DPS on the FCAR. Absolutely game changer

[gentle folio]

You did it embark, I expected nothing from this update and I've got fcar nerf which was in a perfect shape before imo

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-abysmal-abysmal-cinema-gif-9289070101747854856

[bronze cedar]

Pike still lacks 1 damage to be a good gun. At the moment it's just a Repeater but worse.

[exotic palm]

goo gun sledgehammer on top

[muted halo]

l think the fcar change just needed to be 530 rpm and it would be an actual good buff, with 520 its more of a trade off

[muted halo]

the new1 would be 22 damage with 530 rpm nerf and new2 23 damage with 530 rpm

[viscid carbon]

Keep the FCAR at 520 rpm but buff its damage to 24, this would be a buff to BTK vs H

People were complaining that FCAR killed L a little too fast and H a little too slow, hence

Compared to 540 rpm 22 damage it kills L slightly slower, but M and H faster

[muted halo]

did you do the math? because 24 would not change bullets to kill

[rocky tapir]

Exactly. Why would I use a mid range gun that's less reliable than repeater

[viscid carbon]

From 16 BTK to 15

15x23=345
15x24=360

[muted halo]

oh ok

[rocky tapir]

Better damage per mag is nice value to the FCAR.

Sometimes that extra bullet allows a kill where you'd usually have to reload

[muted halo]

it would also increase effective range when in the max fall off l dont thhink the devs want that

[rocky tapir]

But at a decrease to fire rate is rough, hurts close range tracking

[viscid carbon]

Would make it slightly more competitive vs poke weapons at longer ranges

[brazen kiln]

Is the fcar nerf a pre april fool joke or what?

[muted halo]

then why not straight up improve the max fall off reduction?

[rocky tapir]

Yeah, trading into a repeater sucks. Especially when you need damage to push a defensive team

[viscid carbon]

Ideally yeah

[rocky tapir]

Honestly as much as I hate it, I believe repeater needs nerfs rather than buffing other weapons to compete at mid-range. Repeater has amazing damage per shot and an amazing reload. It's always able to dish damage. I don't understand why it needs to be as hard hitting as it is

And they nerfed the famas burst recoil, making the repeater more attractive to use over mid range ARs

[viscid carbon]

Poke meta is boring asf

[rocky tapir]

I agree, dealing with a coordinated team that stalls obj and with poke as strong as it is creates an unfun environment

[muted halo]

buffing effective range for the ARs is literally removing a weakness , if they were stronger in medium range and cqc then when you get on top of the poke guns they would win more often, so the bfr, repeater pike, lh1 would be forced to play better then the AR player unless from afar

[rocky tapir]

Running dive comp to counter only does so much, even when you get in to punish their play style it gets mitigated by strong heal items

[muted halo]

the only poke gun that needs buffs right now is pike because they destroyed the gun

[viscid carbon]

It's almost like that's exactly how poke weapons should behave vs automatics lol

[rocky tapir]

Heavy healball, light heal gun or med heal beam are all hella good. But it's nice to have a second Glitch nade again

[viscid carbon]

Embark pls

[muted halo]

tell that to the other guy them, he wanted to increase effective range of ARs to compete with poke

[muted halo]

gonna fix this thing

[muted halo]

also makes recoil control easier

[chilly granite]

This is very wrong, direct hit minimum damage, if they're running at time of direct hit, is like 15

20dps on the fire and 15.75dps burn, the burn starts after being in the fire for 100ms

If it's a dash light they can be out of the radius immediately and not even take burn damage, so the minimum damage is like, 5

[dry birch]

xp 54 stonks

[indigo nexus]

Hm, I thought the grenade delivered a burst of flat damage on impact in an explosion-like manner

[chilly granite]

If they don't see you throw it/react to the landing, then minimum damage is 31 damage + (reaction time+movement time to leave radius)*(20+15.75) roughly

[chilly granite]

99% sure that's not true but I haven't gotten out of bed yet so it'll be a while before I can check

I have lvl 13 pyro nade so I don't think I'm wrong

Pyro nade is highly meta in tdm

Wiki says nade itself is not damaging/damage is only from the fire DPS

[indigo nexus]

Where does the flat damage come from? I would think a component of it is from the burn that can be expected to be applied, but what’s the other 15.25?

Wiki claims it as 30dps, but the wiki can be wrong

[dry birch]

doesn't standing in the fire actively hurt you or am i wrong on that

[indigo nexus]

yes, it does

[indigo nexus]

Pyro nade is probably the quickest thing to level up in the game, I think mine is close to or even max level just from using it sometimes

[hardy dust]

The humble goo nade

[chilly granite]

I tested it myself

Pyro nades fire is 5/5/5/5 at 250ms interval (20dps)

The afterburn, which lasts infinitely while in fire, starts after 100ms in fire, and for 2s after leaving fire, ticks for 5/5/5/6 at 333ms interval for 15.75 DPS

The wiki lists 31damage as the Cerberus afterburn, which I confirmed ticks in the same way

5/5/5/6/5/5

[indigo nexus]

5.25 damage per tick, I think

[chilly granite]

In pyro nade, it loops at 5556, giving higher DPS than the cerbs total damage since the cerbs afterburn ends before the big tick

[chilly granite]

That's probably correct, this was before I checked floating point interpretation

Oh and I didn't test propogation/initial damage logic thoroughly, but it seemed like fire damage at all didn't start until 100ms in fire, and the afterburn was 100ms after that

That would make sense because dashing when I see a pyro nade pop near me often doesn't result in afterburn, but does result in some damage, and the 100ms afterburn timer would be too fast for reaction times (assuming I've reacted to pop, and not to other information leading to my movement, which may well be the case)

[unkempt moss]

So which of these gun buffs meaningfully changed the guns?

[stoic garden]

none, xp buff is minimal but nice, it pushes the small ttk advantage it had over the arn slightly further, that's all

[unkempt moss]

What was the one damage to like aiming to do

[chilly granite]

Literally nothing

[unkempt moss]

And the FCAR?

[chilly granite]

Idk at this point

Literally how do you change so much and still make it an entire nothing burger of a patch

Now light is even more dead

The fcar already ate light

https://youtube.com/shorts/GVU65rFJMrQ?si=N-05dqNa3j0ibbRG

Just give the peater this fire rate, contestants are meant to be good not have worse arthritis than me

And with such firerate it can have the same damage as pike and be just as crap

Hhahaha

[hardy dust]

Give it one more damage

To demoralize the enemy I guess

[unkempt moss]

Based. I figured it was a break point or something.

[stoic garden]

glitch almost reverted
dome nerfed
xp slightly buffed

slightest ttk change on fcar vs light
LIGHT IS DEAD!!!

[hardy dust]

Fcar kills light slower now 💀

[stoic garden]

yea i dont see what the hell bow guy is saying

[hardy dust]

Light aint anymore dead than before since repeater got off scot free

[stoic garden]

even if it did kill slightly faster, idgaf fcar Lowkey deserves to be back

[unkempt moss]

I never imagined a repeater nerf skipping this patch. I thought for sure bfr was getting smacked.

[hardy dust]

Eh fcar was fine its just repeater is so broken

Embark is still on vacation and never came back

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. I just finished the battle pass. Im done for the season. I'll come back and finish the circuits in the last couple days.

[serene glade]

Another nothing burger!

[chilly granite]

I didn't actually test but the dev notes sounded like it was mean to kill faster, my bad

[hardy dust]

Embark calls it a buff but it kills basically everything slower now

Not the first time embark "buffed" something to make it worse

[unkempt moss]

More proof they do zero testing.

[chilly granite]

Dome nerf decrease relevent of glitch revert

Xp didn't need a buff

Nothing is meaningfully changed out of the problems affecting light

[chilly granite]

Bruh I literally sent them my ttk excel spreadsheet so they can use it to check

[hardy dust]

Xp kinda did need a buff its still very mediocre and outclassed by basically everything else

[chilly granite]

I'm firmly on the boat of "nerf arn to make space for xp"

[hardy dust]

except arn really isn't an issue. Its a fine and healthy weapon

Xp is just below average at literally everything

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus can you drop the light weapon graph please?

[serene glade]

There is no design vision or anything with this game. They are fine with guns all being the exact same and just having you use the weapon with your favorite skin on it.

[stoic garden]

I'm on the opposite

I feel like you envision everything light related with your 180 hp ideal ass light buff, it's not happening bro

[hardy dust]

💀

[chilly granite]

Even without that change, the arn is too good in cqb considering it's extremely long range dominance

[hardy dust]

It really isn't. It's serviceable up close but clearly weaker than other options

Its not like repeater which is stupidly good in cqc and range

[chilly granite]

Weaker than M11/v9s maybe, but stronger than xp54/lh1 when considering them as a whole package and not simple ttk numbers

[hardy dust]

Up close?

[chilly granite]

Yes

Xp54s small mag and significantly longer reload means you're much more vulnerable to being pushed than the arn in cqb

[hardy dust]

It loses to all 4 other weapons in 90% of scenarios up close. The only one that you can kinda argue for is lh1 because of the recoil and hipfire, but the much faster ttk gives it an advantage to balance that out

[chilly granite]

Hipfire being useless on a slow firerate weapon?

[hardy dust]

The only thing arn has above the other weapons is more damage with the fast reload

[chilly granite]

If you miss one shot on the lh1 hipfire it has worse ttk than arn

[stoic garden]

doesnt lh1 already have worse bodyshot ttk than arn

[edgy estuary]

What did they do to Fcar that has people stirred up?

[hardy dust]

Yeah that's why I'm saying lh1 is fair to consider worse up close, but the rest are way better

[hardy dust]

By like 0.01s and only in L vs L

[stoic garden]

what..

[hardy dust]

Its just too clunky to use up close

[chilly granite]

That's wrong , I don't know how it's wrong but it's wrong

[stoic garden]

i remember reading it like 0.1ish diff on most classes

[serene glade]

Nerf it to be "better" in the poke meta instead of just nerfing poke weapons. It's quite impressive honestly

[hardy dust]

Embark gave it +1 damage and -20 rpm which ended up being worse for ttks despite the change being supposed to be a buff

[chilly granite]

Give me a half our to get up and take medicine and get my excel graphs open

[stoic garden]

go for it boy

loading up finals to see if i can stop using 600x480 resolution to play at decent fps

[hardy dust]

Wait nvm you right I was using the old rpm

L vs L is the exact same iirc

[stoic garden]

EMBARK I WANT TO USE LIGHT PLEASE

[spring pivot]

is the turret a good specialisation? also which gadgets are good on medium? I'm currenty planning to bring two mines and a grenade, but I'm open to suggestions

[stoic garden]

i got the numbers wrong

my boy cheating in practice range lmfao

xp may still not be good but god damn it feels smooth

[hardy dust]

Yeah its super easy and feels so buttery

It should get +1 damage back

Lower the rpm

[stoic garden]

exactly

[hardy dust]

Tweak the falloff range if you wanna change it after that

Man I wish there was any actual changes

[stoic garden]

real...

like making the red dot not ugly on the lh1's big fucking booty irons

[chilly granite]

I think you're measuring ttk from 0th shot/not measuring ttk counting the first shot as an instanrious hit

[hardy dust]

I am

Both are 0.6...7 seconds

[stoic garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856855289684033576/1228766327095824415/IMG_4873.gif

[chilly granite]

I mean that's atypical but it rubs in my point about the arn having superior performance at almost all ranges

[hardy dust]

It doesn tho 😭

[chilly granite]

What happens to the ttk if you miss 25% of shots, ie hipfire

[hardy dust]

The very best it does in close-mid is being the same in one scenario against the other weapon thats bad up close

[chilly granite]

I mean, the arn matches it's ttk with trivial recoil out to 37.5 Meters

[spring pivot]

?

[hardy dust]

I wil say that arn is better than lh1 up close because of the shitty hipfire and recoil, even if lh1 generally kills faster, but lh1 is bad up close

[hardy dust]

Turret is the worst spec in the game and super easy to counter, both demat and heal are good but heal is slightly better

[chilly granite]

Yeah, lh1 behaves as a rifle that can touch god to 37.5m should

The arn killing light in .66s at 37.5m with it's easy ass recoil and huge mag is not cool

[hardy dust]

Gadgets are fine, not great but not terrible

[chilly granite]

The fact that is a normal ttk is only because the repeater is fucked too

[hardy dust]

Its cool because the other light will most definitely win up close

[spring pivot]

I almost wanna bring the breach drill, but I remember hearing a lot of people call it mid to terrible

[chilly granite]

Not if they're a lh1 light

[hardy dust]

It's bad. You can try it out, but its quite clunky and slow. Honestly just take demat if you want the same effect

[chilly granite]

If you take heal beam, breach can be a budget dmat

It's not good but it's fun

[spring pivot]

fair enough

[hardy dust]

Yeah, I agree with that. But im also saying lh1 is bad up close

So beating lh1 up close doesn't mean much

[chilly granite]

But the lh1 has worse recoil making peak ttk unrealistic at 37m but very realistic for arn

[spring pivot]

guess now the fun part will be deciding on my gun
I'll probably play some games with each of them and see how I feel about them

[chilly granite]

Peater is op and easy but it's a dog weapon for players who don't have enough skill to play a manly weapon

Akm is the respectable choice

[hardy dust]

Medium has a lot of pretty decent guns so I'm sure you'll find something you like

[spring pivot]

fcar, p90, famas and the revolver are my current shortlisted weapons

[muted halo]

l still think akm needs revert on the mag or partially with 34

[spring pivot]

part of me wants to try dual blades, but I never do well with melee builds lol

[hardy dust]

It's ttk doesn't need to be at peak to beat arn anyways. But its just too inconsistent in general

[stoic garden]

lol i got them automatics on level 3

[chilly granite]

air accuracy is a big problem with lh1/dash

[hardy dust]

For sure. The nerf it got made no sense in the first place

[chilly granite]

But nah I really dont think that .66 is an acceptable ttk for 37m or .75 for 40m (peater)

[hardy dust]

Melee is tough especially on medium, if you do try it out absolutely bring goo nades though. There isn't really anything that's as much of a must pick as them when it comes to medium melee

[chilly granite]

The reason it's a poke meta is because distance fights allow you to get off revives and use healing while still giving you access to similar ttks

Long range ttks should be ass, even on long range weapons, just significantly better than the short range weapons long range ttks

Like the sniper, or bow

[hardy dust]

That's pretty much arn

[chilly granite]

.66 is not ass

[hardy dust]

When it comes to light v. Light it is

[indigo nexus]

P90 buff was quite significant

[indigo nexus]

I think people may be inclined to call it a nerf rather than a buff. But it’s subjective

[chilly granite]

It's literally within human reaction time to M11, so the only thing you need to do is play more around element of surprise... And the arn has better reach, so that's realistic

[hardy dust]

Tbf light duels are who shoots first most of the time, regardless of weapon

[chilly granite]

54->66 is 120ms, that's the limits of human reaction time

[indigo nexus]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182330547234684989/1459226768211972240/image.png?ex=697c3794&is=697ae614&hm=2acdb79a65e44f020cf381576256d487e41f1d1fd59baef1628148afed594f3a&

[chilly granite]

That's because ttks are too low on weaponsthat should lose ttk war to the best reaction times in cqb

[indigo nexus]

this one? I would need to redo it to update the XP, its line has just moved downwards by approximately 1.5x its own thickness

[chilly granite]

M11 should kill arn in cqb if the human reaction time is 99th percentile and that isn't true

To be fair I haven't double checked but I'm pretty sure 99th percentile reaction times are like 150

[hardy dust]

If you get the jump on a light as a light, it should be a kill

[chilly granite]

Not if you're fighting an M11 in 10m

The M11 hits falloff at 10 meters

That is not far

If you chose to fight an M11 in 10m, I don't care if you have element of surprise, you should lose if they react in under 150ma

[muted halo]

the good is m60 hipfire is useable now and xp54 got a change to compete with arn even if arn is still bbetter

[chilly granite]

The M11 hits falloff at 10->15 meters so arn BEATS it's ttk at 12 meters

[muted halo]

p90 range isnt point blank anymore aswell

[chilly granite]

@hardy dust look ttk graph

[chilly granite]

If that's true, the M11 deserves much better falloff because it's not true for M11 jumping an arn at 14m

[serene glade]

It's honestly the worst change to me in the patch. Making the gun more similar to Lewis gun to incentivize picking the m60 more is the laziest change possible.

[chilly granite]

Same is true for the v9s at 18metres(that graph has old v9s falloff before it was scaled 15-20m)

Same is true for the xp54 at 25m

[muted halo]

how? lewis is the gun you get for range, m60 should be the cqc variant. The change makes it better in cqc

[serene glade]

if you say so

[chilly granite]

@hardy dust you do see how the gap between mid and long range DPS varies so much more than cqb DPS, thus leading to have a larger advantage over every gun, within it's falloff, than they ever have over the arn in cqb

[serene glade]

They are the same gun to me even more. But if the goyslop suffices then just enjoy it I guess

[muted halo]

sorry if l dont like a LMG not hitting shit in hipfire pass 3 to 4 meters

[chilly granite]

Lmg are not hipfire weapon, that is monigun

[serene glade]

Hey man don't worry, I like taco bell and stuff too, enjoy yourself

[muted halo]

at least in pointblank tehy should hit shit

[chilly granite]

That's always more true that games make

[muted halo]

so you think its ok for the gun user to bbe forced to scope even in pointblankk and get easilly headshooted by any single fire HS gun in the game?

because that is what happened when the hipfire was ass

[serene glade]

I had no issues with the m60 hipfire before. And would rather see a change that would make the Lewis gun and m60 distinct from one another. Like slowing the fire rate of the m60 massively, buffing the damage. Lewis gun being the brawly closer range lmg or something. But hey if this m60 change does it for you enjoy yourself. Because embark isn't making any more meaningful changes

[viscid carbon]

As a Medium FCAR main, I love how I'll have to wait an entire month for them to revert the RoF nerf

[serene glade]

These types of changes are the ones they would make when they were doing weekly changes. God I love how horrible and lazy this balance team has gotten

[muted halo]

they stopped doing big balance patches with tons of changes season ago sorry if l am not a doomer

[serene glade]

Hey man, enjoy your goyslop idk what else you want from me

Maybe you can get another Esports bundle in the future or something

[muted halo]

hey man enjoy someone not agreeing with you

[serene glade]

Ahhhhh it burnssssss

[viscid carbon]

Like holy f man, I just picked the game up again 3 days ago, started enjoying the FCAR, and now they nerfed it

[crystal swift]

Just picked up the game fore the first time, Ts so fun

[chilly granite]

literally every ttk is worse

[viscid carbon]

medium is slightly better bc of lower btk but everything else is worse

either they revert the RoF nerf or they keep it but buff the damage to 24

I'd rather the former though

[chilly granite]

arn vs new xp

[viscid carbon]

what about old vs new xp

[chilly granite]

xp vs arn

this is within falloff, so 22.5m for xp and 37.5m for the ARN

at 30m for the xp, it's ttk is roughly double the arn's

this is fcar

higher number is a worse ttk

[viscid carbon]

AKM might be back in store btw
L - 0.7 vs 0.69
M - 1.2 vs 1.15
H - 1.7 vs 1.73

[viscid carbon]

Just revert FCAR RoF nerf and AKM mag nerf like omg

[sudden pewter]

Mid season hype, I don’t think -50 on dome will do much but Glitch getting x2 charges again will definitely keep it in check

[night coral]

I would love if u could choose and swap a peice off clothing or an accessory for one that u have in the same rarity like some epic green gloves swapped for some epic blue gloves as example

[chilly granite]

old numbers

[viscid carbon]

FCAR should always kill faster than AKM to make up for its smaller capacity, so just keep the damage bump to 23 but revert the RPM back to 540, and give the AKM a 36rnd mag so it doesn’t get left in the dust, maybe even reduce its horizontal recoil slightly

[chilly granite]

shots to kill akm/nothing/fcarold/fcarnew

[viscid carbon]

yeah I’m saying that with 23 damage it won’t have the disadvantage vs medium here, so it’ll universally kill faster

[chilly granite]

pike changes

[viscid carbon]

“changes” lmao

[chilly granite]

one headshot is now 98 instead of 96, making it more possible to uh.... pyro nade?

[viscid carbon]

actual nothingburger

[chilly granite]

to be fair, I need to do a weapon synergy calculator

but still, actual nothingburgere

and how is buffing the pike

meant to
reduce
pke
meta

the repater is used more than pike, yeah

cuz it's better at hte same job

but it's job is the problem

[indigo nexus]

if/when I finish the rewrite of my graph thing, it would be able to do quite a comprehensive one of these

[viscid carbon]

I still cannot stress ts enough

“Poke meta is bad so we’re nerfing the FCAR” OMEGALUL

[chilly granite]

pike vs peater

pike is 2x hs and peater is 1.5x, but headshots more realistic on peater because it has no recoil cuz BALANCE

so 1.5x is probably a fair comparison being, 100% headshot peater, and 50% headshot pike

[muted halo]

this would literally fix the gun

[kindred gorge]

I can appreciate a range buff on the p90 but that's not really fixing the pressing issues

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus do you have a graph for medium weapons? including model and repeater

[indigo nexus]

After about a year I have finally decided to redo my crosshair, settling on this for now. I think this is the best I know to make it now...

[indigo nexus]

I haven't generated one with all of them, but I can do so. Any other weapons needed?

[chilly granite]

the mainstays for medium class are the most important ones

I'm trying to deomnstarte that the diffrence in cqb power of long range weapons, is massively outweighed by theeir difference in ttk at mid-long range

so, p90, akm, fcar, model, and repeater

[analog pewter]

they added a cat set and still no black cat tail??

[indigo nexus]

ok, it will have to run for a few mins because a couple of guns run into the bad-time-complexity-plus-poor-multithreading problem

[chilly granite]

no streess, I'm writing an essay for embark to go with the graphic

[indigo nexus]

what it should do is look at its workload as a whole and divide it up roughly equally time-wise based on some simple estimates, it would run several times faster

p90 slows it down by far the most due to its low damage + need to measure for more ranges due to its apparently slight dispersion

[chilly granite]

how on earth do you generate these graphs

[indigo nexus]

you know, I should have better thought this through

[indigo nexus]

the slow part is getting an accurate reading when the number of headshots is variable, the rest all takes like .1 seconds tops

[unkempt moss]

I blame Catter for this tbh

He is the MLK to my Malcom X

[indigo nexus]

The max value should be lower for more meaningful readability

but because I'm stupid, it doesn't save the results to adjust them after the fact

[chilly granite]

what's the enemy used for simulation? the model shouldn't beat the repater afiak

[indigo nexus]

mix of all classes

[chilly granite]

ahahah that's funny

[indigo nexus]

77rpm vs 72 for the repeater, and the increased damage makes it hard for the repeater to pull ahead if it didn't hit all headshots

[chilly granite]

is that rpm correct on repeater? wiki has at 78.5

I'm pretty sure 78.5 is correct

[indigo nexus]

could be incorrect, I should see.

[chilly granite]

i'll test brb

[indigo nexus]

I think I measured that one myself? But I'm not sure

if I'm right, I measured it myself, if I'm wrong, I took it from an outdated or otherwise incorrect source!

[chilly granite]

hahhaha

[indigo nexus]

I'm gonna get a graph with the alternate figure, but excluding P90 to be quicker about it

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/knife-cat-cat-knife-cat-knife-cat-angry-gif-9404759922388476738

[indigo nexus]

note that this could be faster to a huge degree, but it's genuinely a hard problem to solve without making the simulation less 'perfect' - I got half way there and didn't bother because I have actual work to do. Some people react really negatively if they know you can't be sure your results are statistically perfect

[chilly granite]

292 382

not sure if meausrement error but thats more than 78.5

[indigo nexus]

here's how it would look with the other firerate

[unkempt moss]

Youre too nice to embark. Its time to radicalize

[sudden pewter]

They gave me $5 so unfortunately I’m contractually obligated to inform you they’re incapable of doing wrong

Glory to Fengwei Dynasty, long may they reign

[muted condor]

We should just buy the weekly reskin and not complain about lack of actual game improvements

[indigo nexus]

it's honestly a mess with so many on one image though, haha, I prefer the two-weapon comparisons

[sudden pewter]

Kinda hoped we’d get more in a mid season patch ngl, poor Pike got an emotional support note that ultimately seems to do nothing?

They also buffed the Domes hard counter by giving glitch its second charge back, then nerfed dome?

[indigo nexus]

might be the weakest buff in FINALS history

[sudden pewter]

Yeah idk. Maybe they’re afraid of adding more poke options?

[chilly granite]

2541, 2632

[indigo nexus]

nice nums

[chilly granite]

frame times between shots

it's very easy to grief the repeater's rof, so a lot of them I have to discard because I held mouse click too long

[indigo nexus]

I'm gonna measure the firerate as well

[chilly granite]

2902 2994

so I have 3 clips of me shooting 90-92 frames between shots, and I don't think I was clicking optimally ever

so it's almost certainly faster than the wiki's listend number assumiing perfect inputs

[indigo nexus]

you can click before it's ready and the input buffer will handle it perfectly

[chilly granite]

no, because click duration delays the bolt cycle

so input buffer works for optimal second shot, but not for optimal cycle time

[placid slate]

Bro doesn't know ball

This shit has to be worse than at least an actual damage increase

[indigo nexus]

from a quick approximate measure I got from 77.25 - 79.2 (worse case error assumption), with the measure itself being 78.2

[indigo nexus]

so I think 78.5 makes sense

[stoic garden]

many such cases

though this once both were warranted for real

[chilly granite]

the start demonstrates the slow cycle time on a held mouse click

the minimum cycle delay propably corrseponds to game/phyiscsfps , rather than mouse poll rate @indigo nexus

[sudden pewter]

What the fuck

[versed monolith]

How is fcar

[chilly granite]

shit

[placid slate]

First ever spear buff btw

The change before it was a nerf

[stoic garden]

mid

[final steppe]

i thought it was pretty good no?

[versed monolith]

Better or worse I’ve heard both

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus even with pressing mouse as fast as I could, I'm holding it around 5 or 6 frames at 120fps, which will delayy the repeater's bolt cycle by that duration as a minimum, and I still recorded cycle times of 78.5rpm

[indigo nexus]

a typical polling rate would not be measurable in any way on my end, but it may also have some relation to networking. I don't know how it works, but when latency is very high, a delay exists on your shots - there is typically no such delay observed so I don't know why / when that becomes significant

[placid slate]

How the spear has gotten as much nerfs as its gotten buffs is beyond me

[stoic garden]

blame winch

[chilly granite]

I assume the bolt delay is client authorative, but I might be wrong @indigo nexus

[indigo nexus]

this was my test, each shot was handled by the input buffer with myself clicking ~0.25s prior to the actual fire

[chilly granite]

do you know how long your mouse input on first shot was held for?

[indigo nexus]

I'm almost certain it is, but server validation probably exists

[indigo nexus]

No. It was a 'regular click'.

[chilly granite]

my "minimum time click attempts" were 6 frames at 120fps

[placid slate]

Fym blame winch, shit ain't an issue on spear

[stoic garden]

or you could use an autoclicker and check if it's any different

[chilly granite]

and get banned smh

[stoic garden]

it doesnt ban you, if it's too fast it kicks you from the lobby

i used one in season 1 to try v9s at max rpm lmao

[chilly granite]

I think they've changed rules regarding bans/kicks ebeacuse there were a bunch of poeple bitching on reddit

[kindred gorge]

I mean if you were just testing in a practice range then hopefully it wouldn't apply right

[chilly granite]

who's an embarker i can @ to ffind out if I can do this without getting banned

[stoic garden]

let me try in practice range

[chilly granite]

I pray for you

[kindred gorge]

Alternatively if you don't wanna risk it I can take the hit on my steam alt

[stoic garden]

yep it doesnt do anything, 70ms delay between clicks doesnt get me banned or anything

[kindred gorge]

since I play on console

[stoic garden]

i could probably go lower but idc

shot buffering makes sure i go at max rpm

[chilly granite]

can u record a 1ms-duration click and then a 250ms delay, second clikc

[stoic garden]

my pc can barely handle finals idk if it'll handle finals AND recording

[chilly granite]

no stress then hahaah

[stoic garden]

but sure i'll try

[chilly granite]

nah it's fine, u need fps for accuracy anyway

[stoic garden]

then i cant help you cuz i'd get 30 while recording or something

[indigo nexus]

mmm, the repeater's hipfire is indeed weird.

It doesn't always do this, but a large portion of the time it will create hipfire shots in an octagon pattern, sometimes with several bullets condensed into one point. So odd. I saw this demonstrated in clips prior.

[stoic garden]

this is what i used btw

[chilly granite]

yeah I complained to embark

increasing hipfire spread doesn't do shit when osmetimes it shooots dead straihgt on the hipfire patter

that hipfire pattern just rewards bad practices and makes it so people feel the weapon is incosistentt, when they're using it in an unintended manner

someetimes the pattern is dead straight too, like, literally perfect

that's not just spread for hipfire, it's spread for all conditions, jumpinig, hipfire, etc

[indigo nexus]

yeah

[unkempt moss]

So we have a FCAR change that is so mild people cant tell a difference without a calculator?

[chilly granite]

the "nerfing standing innaucracy" nerf made me laught out loud becuse they didn't change the spread pattern, meaning it's a moot point 60% of the time anyway

[stoic garden]

i dont even think it needed the hipfire nerf since it's already kinda ass JUST NERF THE RPM ALREADY

[indigo nexus]

it's ass when it doesn't do this

while I don't know how to predict it precisely, if one could then they could use it to hit every shot, at least some of the time

[stoic garden]

what is this...

[cerulean furnace]

I was wondering, would the rpm change anything with the recoil? Unsure how they programmed it, but it being a tiny bit slower sounds like it'd give a tiny bit more control while shooting it no?

[placid slate]

That's 90%of the patches changes

[indigo nexus]

the repeater just sometimes produces regular polygons in its hipfire

you can see it drawing the shape anticlockwise

[chilly granite]

it also has a dead straight pattern

there's 5 patterns I think

giant octogon, small octogon, tiny octogon, dead straight, and random

[chilly granite]

I can confirm that obs mouse click recording is accurate to my mouse's click input duration

so the repeater's cyclic is probably around 0.71

[serene glade]

Lock in so we can farm gore magala and gog

[chilly granite]

this wont ban me right?

ahhhh I'm not gonna risk it, it's not worth it

[placid slate]

I need lagi sapphires

[cerulean furnace]

Probably won't, but takes away some skill expression wouldnt it?

[chilly granite]

it's not for gameplay, it's for testing

[cerulean furnace]

Ohhh, nah that's surely fine then

[kindred gorge]

You'd think so... just a hefty consequence if you're wrong

[chilly granite]

don't talk if you're not following the conversation

also I'm arthritic so "skill expression" my ass, console gamers have insane aim assist anyway so "skill expression" kekw

[stoic garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182330547234684989/1466449183866355884/image.png?ex=697cc8ba&is=697b773a&hm=c6a7a1abddc23f62abcf2b8f8c2bd8e9c305dc99ed4ad6c18dba3a928aef015e& you will end up like this guy!!

[serene glade]

I spent an entire week of farming lagi and got Jack shit

[unkempt moss]

I dont dare type my needs, or risk the malice of the desire sensor.

[cerulean furnace]

Woa alright damn

[stoic garden]

https://tenor.com/view/hop-on-hop-the-finals-the-finals-finals-gif-3597424728555834416

[placid slate]

I got 2

[stoic garden]

btw i played my guitar in a h2h game and someone matched me with the trumpet after a while, the trumpet automatically synced to my guitar apparently

[chilly granite]

no hate but popping in the coversation to bully for a rate of fire macro for the cb repeater, probably the weapon you least want to use a rate of fire macro for, is a crazy take

[unkempt moss]

I believe while he was doing this i got one off a carve and two from rewards while he remained at zero.

This was a single hunt.

[serene glade]

Yeah

[unkempt moss]

The maracas also do this. You can have the whole squad going. Same with the four disco dances. You can also get a longer version of the disco songs this way.

[stoic garden]

i love the musical trio thing

my friends dont wanna buy s5 cuz they were too busy spending on cosmetics they never use 😢

[chilly granite]

I'm gonna measure, holding teh button too long, and then release -> shot

actualyl cba

[kindred gorge]

I am actually curious to see how the deadtime reduction affects performance, I'd be inclined to thing it would affect semi autos like pike more than single shots like peater.

[chilly granite]

807, 809 -> mouseclick to shot on screen

813-> mouse no longer pressed (812, last presssed frame)

input buffer at 875

shot on screen at 901

[kindred gorge]

damn

[chilly granite]

2 frame lag mouse->game, 811->901 is roughly the rate of fire of the repeater

tbh there's a lot of error here because the game recording and the mouse recording are seperatee

[kindred gorge]

probably would be narrower then. But that's as close as you get to optimal speed, too much human error

[chilly granite]

1039,1041,1046, 1097,1133

i have arthritus someone healthy can almost certainly get closer if I can do it this often lol

that's 89ish with 2 frame lag, or 88 with 1 frame lag

733ms-750ms

so the rate of fire fo the cb repeater is between probably around 82rpm, but the low end estimate is 80rpm

@indigo nexus can u calculate error? error calcs give me a headache and i'm already feelign really sick and clikcing this much hurt my hand

aw fuck im an idiot i'ev been talking patch notes and forgot to take my medicine

no wonder my hand hurts so much, doing a bunch of rapid fire clicking wihtiht medine is so fucking bad lol

[chilly granite]

if u just do shot->shot subtract mouse held time, it's 0.72

and that's a probably more accurate way to calculate because the error for mouse held time and the error for shot->shot don't impact each toher

[indigo nexus]

I don't know what framerate your recordings are, but it is 2 frames either side of what you observe

[chilly granite]

120

[indigo nexus]

so you could add/subtract 1/60 from all time measurements to get an error window, with the errors propagating through further measurements

[chilly granite]

the problem is because obs and internal game framerate are different, and because the mouse recording is an obs overlay, so I think theres weird interaqctinos on the error

if we're talking about calculating clik->releaee times and stuff

the error of the obs overplay should only be +- 1 right?

becaue ther's no frame synch error

[indigo nexus]

if you're measuring a time window then it could be off by up to slightly under one frame on either side of that window, when the actual events occured

[chilly granite]

ye, like 0.9repeating

[indigo nexus]

the framerate of the game would be problematic if it was slower than the recording though

[chilly granite]

I make sure to record slower than fps

I had issue with 200fps recording becasue when I turn up recording speed, pc slow down, game stop getting 200fps all time

start dipping

make bow arrow speed math hard

ive been recording at 180 recently because it's more consistent but i didn't want to press EEEEE a bunch so i did this at 120

next frame in vlc

[near citrus]

yo

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus plz check work

wait i'll put it on sheets and share so u can chekc forumlas

god I hate that excel doesn't save to hard drive by default

[serene glade]

HIT THE FUCKING ROAD SCUM

[sudden pewter]

This is hallowed ground. 35 messages isn’t a big ask. Spam will result in being drawn & quartered.

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus I think I'm meant to use the last frame where the mouse is clicked, rather than the frame where it's visibly unclicked, for the release right?

[indigo nexus]

I'm not certain what you mean by "release"

[chilly granite]

for the maximum mouse hold time

mouse hold time shoudl be first frame mouse cicked-> last frame mosue clicked, not mouse frame mouse clicked - > first frame mouse unclicked

[indigo nexus]

the latter would represent an upper bound for how long it was clicked

[shell sonnet]

jesus
i leave for like 3 days and come back to this

[chilly granite]

but I'm already calculating error as +1 frame right?

and it wouldn't be unclicked ever i think

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/consequences-cat-gif-6581548611274851813

[chilly granite]

idk if u could check my spreadsheet, i sent u a link to sheets

[indigo nexus]

it also depends on how the overlay works, I have no idea at what rate it updates

but I'm not sure why you're measuring that to begin with either

[chilly granite]

its super fast, it didn't catch instantenous macro in razer, but it captured 2 frames at 16ms in razer software

mouse hold time represents the delay on the action cycle

cb works like sr84, the bolt doesn't cycle until you release click

[indigo nexus]

Oh, ok. I never noticed that

[chilly granite]

my hands are really painful so I accidentalyl held the mouse click for way too long in my testing, which made it very obvious

i dind't realize until now either

[indigo nexus]

I don't see why you don't just guarantee that that isn't a factor by using the input buffer

[chilly granite]

you can't input buffer the first mouse click

[indigo nexus]

you could measure all but the first in the cycle

[chilly granite]

ah ur smart

I'll try that brb

[indigo nexus]

If you didn't, I'm not sure how to certainly account for that. Would need to draw it out I think

[chilly granite]

I have the mouse click thing set up for measuring bow because you aboslutely can't input buffer partial draw/release times and arrow velocity

[indigo nexus]

or, I guess it might be fine to treat it exactly the same as measuring any event from the game

so, unless the framerate is at least double the recording rate, it could have happened up to two frames before it was observed

[jovial gale]

https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/1KT29YDT1A

Thoughts????

[chilly granite]

recording 100fps so i have double framerate 99% of the time

I think I managed to input buffer, but with my hands hurting I wasn't perfeectly consistent

if ther'es an outlier I'll blame hands

[indigo nexus]

could macro it with just a small underestimate of the framerate

though I don't know why you'd go through the trouble

I just ballparked it and called it a day :p

[sudden pewter]

I think someone should make a shitty drawing in MSPAINT instead of using generative AI

[plucky wolf]

Can someone gift me the flip out flyer dager skin

[unkempt moss]

Yeah for sure

[plucky wolf]

Rly

[unkempt moss]

I'm sure someone can. If they actually will is another matter.

[serene glade]

Can someone gift me my rent money this month no cap deadass on a stack frfr

[plucky wolf]

Yea ive been a dager main for idk how long

[serene glade]

How long do you have to use dagger before spelling it correctly?

[plucky wolf]

I have a spelling disorder

[serene glade]

Shame

[plucky wolf]

Can we get this guy banned

[serene glade]

I wish

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus

[unkempt moss]

Had he spelled a single other word incorrectly?

I do agree we should ban googs though.

[plucky wolf]

Thx 😊

[indigo nexus]

I don't know why you are pinging me about that

[chilly granite]

I lean towards 79rpm

afaik there's no weapon with decimal rpm?

[indigo nexus]

Since the gun has a bolt time, the RPM could be completely arbitrary as it may not be manually set.

[chilly granite]

I think they use rpm as the bolt time for manual cycle weapons

see the bow's rpm buff - being it's re-arrow time

[indigo nexus]

sniper rifle RPM doesn't line up with its bolt time according to patch notes.

it'd be 57.14 RPM, but it's actually 45 or something very close

[chilly granite]

they are rounding the RPM numbres

Increased rate of fire from 98 RPM to 103 RPM

612ms to 582ms

afaik, the bow is actually 610/580ms

ofcourse my measurement accuracy isn't that good

[analog pewter]

49 damage on pike is hilarious

That's like the funniest patch note of all time

[chilly granite]

literally every change tehy made is 0 immpact

and even if it was impactful, why the hell are you buffing pike while triyng to break out of a poke meta

[unkempt moss]

I wish they explained what the point of it was

[chilly granite]

the point of it is that they don't understand their own game

[indigo nexus]

this made some impact (P90)

[chilly granite]

I don't think that changes p90 from mid to good thoguh

[analog pewter]

I can't imagine a single situation where up to 7 more damage before killing actually makes a breakpoint difference

That's 7 body shots to heavy, for light its 3 more damage and medium it's 5

Like even Pyro I think ticks for more than the damage differential you'd be seeing

[chilly granite]

if frag was like, 50 damage, c4 was like 30 damage, and rpg was 40 damage, then it would make a big difference

but alpha strike is so high on most things in this game that its literally irrelevent

[unkempt moss]

So it was filler

[indigo nexus]

However it's weird as these weren't the original ranges according to any patch note, and when I tested it that certainly wasn't the case

so perhaps I should re-measure to be sure

[chilly granite]

pyro ticks 5, os it makes a diff for medium and light

except afterburn is min damage 31

[unkempt moss]

I don't use pike, so I didnt know if this was like a requested change.

[chilly granite]

distiance indicator in fire range rounds btw

[analog pewter]

They don't understand that the current pike issue isn't the damage but the restrictive magazine size and heavy recoil

[chilly granite]

exactly 16m indicated is 15.5 @indigo nexus I tested with v9s

[unkempt moss]

At least its still the finals we all know and love

[chilly granite]

tbh the pike is fine, the issue is that the cb exists and is easier and better

[indigo nexus]

cool

[analog pewter]

They need to increase pike's mag to 15

[chilly granite]

one of the ttk cutofffs is 16.01m on v9s, when you walk back to about halfway between 16m and 17m markers, that's when it stops killing

[plucky wolf]

wht do yall think abt the dagger

[chilly granite]

mid, next

[indigo nexus]

janky

[chilly granite]

backstab range is nuts but the weapons stats are bad

[indigo nexus]

it cannot be salvaged because it was designed as a janky weapon

[unkempt moss]

Dash or cloak?

[plucky wolf]

opp im a dagger main 🫣

[plucky wolf]

i switch between but mainly dash

[unkempt moss]

Ultra studs play Cloak, femboys and Russians play dash.

[chilly granite]

Go talk in light build main, they're all dagger mains there

[plucky wolf]

im a femboy

[indigo nexus]

cloak dagger just seems laughable with how noisy it is

[unkempt moss]

Checks out.

[chilly granite]

They will have better takes than us

[unkempt moss]

They wont have a better take than wNg

[plucky wolf]

i did no 1 responded

[chilly granite]

They will have more informed takes on the dagger than us, even if they're stupider takes

[unkempt moss]

You dont run at people cloaked.

[indigo nexus]

Which limits you to a huge degree.

[unkempt moss]

You use it to set up, wait in the night, the chaos erupts and you pounce.

[unkempt moss]

I'm a master positioner, so it doesnt hinder me much.

[indigo nexus]

Hmm. But there are so many times when you need to go to the enemy. You often can't wait for them to come to you.

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus can u graph old vs new fcar btw, the break points in falloff are probaly intersting

tbh it's fcar, are you ever using it in falloff?

[unkempt moss]

Sausage-sama, you have to play with your heart.

[analog pewter]

yk i feel like the ttk differences are marginal enough that it might be made up for by the fact that the slower RPM means the recoil resets more between shots? assuming recoil wasn't touched, the FCAR has just become a more controllable weapon

[chilly granite]

if recoil is affected by rpm, then the xp change is a nerf

[analog pewter]

xp change would be buff and nerf yeah

[chilly granite]

holy garbage

[analog pewter]

if anyone has recorded the recoil of FCAR before the patch they should compare it to after

[chilly granite]

I have an fcar tdm main friend ill ask her vibes based opinon, I'll check reocil pattern, I didn'thave it recorded but I remeber it pretty good

[analog pewter]

thanks bro

[chilly granite]

looks identical

[analog pewter]

my assumption is that the recoil would be better since it has more time to reset between shots, but it depends of the reset time is scaled to the time between shots or if it's a flat value

[chilly granite]

xp looks identical too

there's a high probability that the differencee is just too small to be visible

[analog pewter]

oh yk i bet ronin made a video showing the recoil in patch 6.0.0 which is the last time recoil was touched for the fcar

[chilly granite]

it's a 4% difference on fcar and a 2.5% diff on the xp

[analog pewter]

https://youtu.be/NoL4TkCbTFQ?si=a65QLIRArna7hRT-&t=788

timestamp

[chilly granite]

I would expect if the recoil reset time wasn't corrected for rpm, then you would ssee compounding error

fcar main friend says recoil felt pretty normal, she didnt notice any different

and her recoil control on fcar is pretty nutty tbh

I'm pretty sure if anythingn its biggger now, cuz I think I'm more closer than he is for an almost identical size

[analog pewter]

to my eye it looks a teensy bit smaller

oh but he ran up to the wall so the comparison is bad

took a screenshot before he moved

yea it looks like the exact same proportion of screen space

[analog pewter]

i suppose because the fire rate is slower, if the recoil is the same then it's presumably slightly easier to control

[chilly granite]

yeah but it is a very small difference at best, 5%

techincally the per shot spacing gets bigger?

but lower rate of fire recoil is always easier ieven when bigger, beecaus you have more time between shots to adjust

[dusk urchin]

The new hand pistol feel off for some reason, aiming isnt as accurate, not 100% sure if its the game or just me

[chilly granite]

deags have bloom

[kindred gorge]

I mean you're probably used to gauging reticle placement relative to where the gun is at on your screen, a drastically different design would probably throw that off

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus btw I would really love to see db vs matter on light ttks

0-20m

[dusk urchin]

Its two hand guns and even stay still it shoots around my crosshairs

[kindred gorge]

weird

[chilly granite]

the bloom is bigger than a small corsshair

do u have dispersion corrshair on?

[kindred gorge]

I can't imagine a skin would have a bug attached to it

come to think of it they kinda just removed thermal vision, no rework or nothing

[sudden pewter]

He doesn’t know

[dusk urchin]

I have a circle, ill try using other skins to see if its just me

[indigo nexus]

It only considers the magnitude of the spread rather than the spread pattern, so it won’t highlight the thing you were complaining about yesterday. Could do so in a bit, though

[chilly granite]

the inner spread to outer spread ratio is about the same, the bigger problem is the higher shot damage as a % of spread, so it should show correct I think

[indigo nexus]

A spread pattern simulation would be nice to do though

[kindred gorge]

You both deserve some special role cause the amount of number crunching between y'all is insane, keep it up

[chilly granite]

I expect the numbers for both weapons to be better than IRL

but the relationship should similar

if u can do 3 lines for l/m/h instead of 0/25/100% headshot that would be amazing

[indigo nexus]

Easy enough

[kindred gorge]

do y'all have a master excel where you keep all this data

[indigo nexus]

Can’t do it now though

[chilly granite]

I have like 15 different spreadsheets

[indigo nexus]

I don’t use spreadsheets for many things

The only big spreadsheet I have is a collection of info about battlebit remastered stuff

[tropic kettle]

is it just me or is the dome shield post update WORTHLESS ? Dont even need 1 mag to take it down for many weaponds

[chilly granite]

yeah the inner spread: outerspread ratio seems to be abut the same between them, so I think the numbers you give will be fairly close to reality

[chilly granite]

a whole medium of extra hp bro

you can shoot back when they shoot your dome btw

[tropic kettle]

barley

[alpine sphinx]

you also need time to throw it and swap back to your weapon

[tropic kettle]

thats what i meannnn

[kindred gorge]

Are you throwing it out in the open mid gun fight?

[tropic kettle]

not worth the time it takes to switch from gun to dome and back

[chilly granite]

1. teammate don't
2. you can shoot it around a corner and then peek through it
3. I need to measure that time, but I'm pretty sure there aren't any weapons that a mediums worht in the duration

[kindred gorge]

using gadgets in a open shootout is usually a bad play, better off just trying to kill them first, least as heavy

[tropic kettle]

offensivley yeah its still good if you get the jump on 1 guy....

[alpine sphinx]

5 second duration btw

[chilly granite]

80 frames to throw toshoot

[kindred gorge]

that's kinda the ideal, any gadget that would let you win a teamfight by yourself consistently deserves a nerf

[alpine sphinx]

oh, so like defi

[kindred gorge]

also you know how long 5 seconds is in this game

[chilly granite]

100fps, 0.8s

the m11 highest dps in the game, 0.9s to do 250 damage

so it's 100ms ttk advantage MINIMUM

don't be bad

[alpine sphinx]

not really, the hitzone is ginormous so you never miss any shots on it, and can damage it through walls

[chilly granite]

??????????? that's assuming every shot from a m11

m11 only has reach of 10m

if they're shooting it at less than 10m in m11 when you drop it, you've fucked up

if you're facetaknig 3 guys, you've fucked up

[kindred gorge]

Like from an actual post patch gameplay expirience what is dome not doing that it was doing before

[alpine sphinx]

like i said, you can easily run with your m11 and either let it run out, or shoot it from somewhere the enemy cant shoot you, since its so big

[chilly granite]

domeshield is bieng balanced for people who use it most effecitvely andnot for lowskills who use it to save themselves when they've blundered position

it's significantly less effective when you've made an unforgiveable error, and goo was always better for tthat anywway

but it's still crazy op when used properly

goo grenade is how you should be saving yourself if you're caught out of position

dome shield is thrown ahead of time to improve the win probabilty of a peek

dome is an offensive tool, not defensive

defensive tools are barricade, mesh shield, and goo grenade

[kindred gorge]

mesh could go either way, you can get a lot of offensive use out of it

[chilly granite]

for the heavy it's defensive

for your team it can be offensive with good teamplay

[kindred gorge]

but I wholly agree on the other two

[chilly granite]

It can act as gapclose with cqb weaponry, too, which is offensive

[kindred gorge]

I shouldn't have said offensive, agressive would be a better word

[chilly granite]

yeah

but dome shield was just broken op before, it probably still is, it's still a substanital ttk increase if you're fihgting weapons with worse dps than m11

[kindred gorge]

the amount of easy cashout steals my team has gotten with dome, I'm alright with the nerf

[chilly granite]

dome is still too good probably

the fact that light's relevent to meta depends entirely on it having a counter for duble dome tells a story

it's only worth bringing light over heavy if there's a risk of other teams bringing a counter to double dome

and then it's only worth bringing light over heavy as your own counter to double dome

KEKW

light isn't being played when it can only pop one dome, clearly the solution is to give back double glitch rather than making light offer enouhg value that it's not a grief pick over heavy

light is too fragile to ask people to risk their mmr playing it

only being able to entirely counter alternative metas via double glitch allows light to be playable

[kindred gorge]

letting thermal bore hit dome and mesh might be a good buff

[chilly granite]

fuze 1.75s

probably not beneficial

[kindred gorge]

my light is a sword main so as long I can draw attention we deal with domes well enough

[chilly granite]

and again, you can't take away the second glitch without making light irrelevelnt

there is no buff that makes light worth the risk in a tournement for money except haivng a hard counter to toher meta

it's like asking pros to have a deagle only player in competative tournements in csgo

[noble storm]

i feel like we should make a fully automatic silenced pistol for light class

[chilly granite]

the risk is not worth the reward unless the reward of playing h/m/l is being able to make h/h/m teams worhtless

which is what glitch does

you don't even need the glithc, you just need the threat

explsove mine is 120 damage, out of 150 on light

80% hp

meanwhile it's 120 of 250 on meidum

48%

frag is 140, 93% and 56%

rpg is 110, 73% and 44%

theres so much explsove and chip damage in this game, and light is oneshot or twoshot range for most weapons from it

even the best lights don't dodge everything, it's unrealistic, which means light is not good in pro meta becasue it's too damn fragile

this is doubled down on via weapons like bfr and cb

if a cb and bfr double peek, it's a oneshto kill

[dusk urchin]

Did the firework skin for the rpg ever have an actual firework explosion when fired?

[chilly granite]

hitscan weapon btw, unlike the sr84 which is not a oneshot kill on any class but light

and heavy is tall enough you can literally stack on a medium to double peek perfectly lol

embark wanted to balance the game with a super squishy light made good by op weaopns, specs and gadgets, but they failed because they didn't want to make light actually OP

[analog pewter]

do u guys think dagger would be broken if they just let you sprint while charging the right click

[chilly granite]

no but it might actually be viable

[analog pewter]

cause rn the counter to being backstabbed is just to run away if they're not using dash afaik

[chilly granite]

yes

I mean, heavy shouldn't sprint faster than light walks tbh

heavy should be relying on teammates to gapclose a light

teammates, positioning, utility

[analog pewter]

nah this is crazy tho
heavy should definitely sprint faster than light walks lmao

[chilly granite]

Why do u think that

[analog pewter]

i dont think that there should be such a massive mobility gap, the gap is already just fine as it is
slowing heavy down would fucking suck and make rotations a massive chore

it'd practically force zipline and gateway use at inopportune times cause that's the only way to lug your heavy around

[chilly granite]

I mean, first for context, heavy sprint is about 5.85 and light walk is about 5.45 m/s

[analog pewter]

yeah it's already at the limit where any slower would really suck

[chilly granite]

Imean, you can improve light walk speed, in fact, that's my preference

[dusk urchin]

What if dagger had a headshot multiplier, not enough to one shot a light but a headshot and a swing

[chilly granite]

no, 1.6 had that and it was ass

[analog pewter]

i think dagger m1 should have backstab crits for like 80 damage so you dont have to use the right click

[chilly granite]

80 damage backstab crits would still be appuling dps, you can do bettter than that

[analog pewter]

you'd 2-shot light and 3 shot medium with a quick melee to finish

88 if you dont want to rely on quick melee combos

[chilly granite]

those are ass ttks

[analog pewter]

the breakpoints would be interesting. 2x88 + 1x60 would be 236, +1 qm kills medium. 2x88 + 3x60 kills heavy in 5 swings. so if you imagine the light manages two backstab m1s, they've reduced STK substantially from 7 to 5 for heavy and 5 to 4 (including qm so more like 3.5) for medium

[chilly granite]

light ttk is very wrong but med and heavy are correct

the excel forumual is alaredy a fucking paragraph for caluclating the primary attack ttks because it's animation based

so I didn't both with including calcualationg for single attack ttks

ttk on a light would be 0.2s

the windup animation on the primary attack

[silk harbor]

what is yalls opinion on the minigun? I personally hate to fight against it

[chilly granite]

funadmentally both firerate and damage ont he primary is ass (dagger)

even giving backstab, it's still gonna be mid because the attacksspeed is bad

[muted condor]

Favorite heavy weapon. It’s fun to play with and against imo and is perfectly balanced as a A tier weapon

[chilly granite]

but they need to add a functinoal anti-melee tutorial before they can actually make melee weapons effecitve

melee is not hard to counter but if you don't teach players how to do so, they're gonna feed and complain

[analog pewter]

one of my main weapons, it's just shy of being at the perfect balance point. IMO the big weakness it has right now is that it's slightly too easy to catch out. I think they could improve its ability to be used while moving around a given space by making its spin decay a little slower, but otherwise I think it's in a pretty good spot

[placid slate]

Backstabs also don't register

Like very often

[analog pewter]

i didnt give you a light ttk

[chilly granite]

I mean, I have low confidence on anyones opinons on hitreg of any kind if they aren't recording in high refresh rate

there's a lot of times that shit is wrong for 1ms and you don't see it

[chilly granite]

I meant my graphic, not what you said

[muted condor]

That’s because dagger is a dog shit fundamentally bad weapon that does not work in this game and I will die on this hill

[analog pewter]

ahh

[placid slate]

Dagger feedback thread is full of clips

[chilly granite]

how many are not 60fps??

[placid slate]

Idk I don't have that info

[chilly granite]

60 fps clips have an error of like, 70ms

which is a fucking decade

if servers are 30 tick, then it's two frames at server tickrate, technically 3 frames, and if they're 60 it's like 7 frames, and if they're higher tickrate than that itss evenmore

even measuring at 120fps is terrible accuracy lol

I measure bow velcoity at 150fps and my measurement accuracy is like, 500m/s to 180m/s

[indigo nexus]

it's sometimes not clear but usually there is enough information in the frames available to see what happened.

[muted condor]

Dagger being bullshit is what happens and that’s all the info needed

[indigo nexus]

the timing itself usually isn't a concern, so long as we know that something happened but the thing which should have followed that did not. Which you can usually see

[chilly granite]

are there serious issues with dagger hitreg in your opinion then solar?

I also have lower opinon of people ability to interpret frame data, I've seen peoplejust not accept their crosshair sin't on a guy on the frame that matters

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, though sometimes it is people just not seeing what happened properly

a lot of examples I see are blatantly problematic

[chilly granite]

also has anyone tried to document the hitreg rules on the dagger? tf2 backstab and winch in finals, have insanely complex rules

maybe it was just becuase I was sick but I got a headache and gave up when I read the tf2 backstab rules

[indigo nexus]

I don't think anyone has defined the specific cases where a registration issue will occur.

[chilly granite]

we need to find a me for daggers to do some testing, i don't care enoguh

[muted condor]

There is no one because no one is willing to put effort into trying that weapon

[indigo nexus]

@chilly granite this is what it gets

oh wait, that's not the one for lights, let me get that

blame specific spread patterns for most of any inaccuracies

[chilly granite]

yeah, the 12.5 jump happens at 7.5 at the latest IRL

then it's about correct

other than that, it's about correct

[indigo nexus]

the whole spread thing is approximate, ultimately based on measurements from a video of me firing like 200 LH1 shots at a target dummy :p

and then adjusting that to fit different cases

[chilly granite]

each weapon has a unique spread pattern, so that's probably not even accurate, you'd probably have more accurate data with a normal curve

I assume the average weapon reperesents a normal curve, but the repeater exists

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, kinda throws a wrench into it.

Based on what I knew at that point, I assumed spread was as simple as:

pick a random angle
pick a random distance

[placid slate]

Ask some of the mfs from the dagger thread

[indigo nexus]

as this seemed to line up with what I observed - shots tended to concentrate towards the middle of the spread circle, for non-shotguns

[chilly granite]

oh btw, your ttk graph for v9s is using old falloff distance, it's 15/20 now

[indigo nexus]

yeah, I didn't redo it since then

[chilly granite]

ok, just wanted to make sure you had the right numbers to work with, and hadn't missed the patch note

[sly estuary]

fcar is literally worse now, it has 0.5 less stk on med and heavy and same stk on light

[placid slate]

0.05, 0.5 would be busted

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus did detailed testing and matter is incosistent about 8.5m

[indigo nexus]

as in, it sometimes two shots?

[chilly granite]

it mostly 3shots light, but sometimes 2shots

[indigo nexus]

oh, of course

[chilly granite]

with micromanaged aim, too

[indigo nexus]

well, I don't have a great way to factor this info in yet

[chilly granite]

don't worry I'm gonna paint your graph

[stoic garden]

🖌️

[lyric jackal]

i dont know if this is for other weapons as well, but when i take a gateway with dagger, it glitches out and i cant use the dagger until i switch to a gadget. also the dagger will be invisible

[wintry trout]

Yo best medium class gfo

[chilly granite]

sh1900 over a light at 8.5m, 5 hit needed for kill

matter, 7 hit

if you aim lower body/groin, then you can have a better chance of the shoulder pellets hitting

but this is still inconsitent based on animation

[broken mulch]

whys the smoke grenade got such an absurd cd

when thermal was around it made sense

[chilly granite]

becausee ranked players are lil bitches

[muted condor]

They decided nerfing smoke and removing the gadget that made it broken at the same time was the play lol

[chilly granite]

oh, no they problably worried about smoe steals being op with no thermal to counter

[viscid carbon]

it’s 0.068 faster vs M but 0.025 slower vs L and 0.064 slower vs H

L change

[thin quarry]

💀

[chilly granite]

am i wrong?

[sudden pewter]

Can’t wait for the Thermal rework that effectively uncounters smoke and then they don’t do anything for smoke

Embark leaving the job half done mark my words

[serene glade]

Bro is taking the safest bet possible and wants us to be impressed

[sudden pewter]

Oh yeah? I’ll up it.
Smoke changes will coincide with the thermal rework but will ultimately fall short of intended goals and expectations

[analog pewter]

matter shouldnt have a wider pellet spread than it is tall 😭 its so weird

[sudden pewter]

Something like “We increased the dispersion power of common explosives on smoke so that the now explosives are a more potent counter to smokes (gas unaffected)”

[chilly granite]

it's to prevent it being op against light/medium while still being solid against heavy

I'm ok with the outer two pellets being where they are, but the central square is too big

the central square being more consistent woudl result in hits of 99 at distance, a little worse than model (108) but faster fire rate

The outer two gives 22 damgae for a sum total of 121

[serene glade]

Aight that's a little better

[sly estuary]

stk not ttk brother

[sly estuary]

STK NOT TTK

[viscid carbon]

stk is 1 lower for medium and that’s it

[sly estuary]

no do the math its 0.5 less for med and 0.5 less for heavy

where headhsot is 1.5

[viscid carbon]

I’m just taking about bodyshot btk

[sly estuary]

22x 11.5=253, 23x11 = 253

22x16 =352, 23*15.5 = 356.5

[viscid carbon]

tf is the point of decimals for btk

[sly estuary]

cuz of headshots??

they should just change ammo to like a number between 20 and 25 (maybe 22) and further increase dmg by 1 and revert rpm

[sly estuary]

in a fight with an auto weapon ur almost guaranteed to get at least 1 headie

[viscid carbon]

yeah I get your line of thinking now

[chilly granite]

bold is 25% chance headshots, the highest dark line is 0% and lowest dark line is 100%

this is average over all classes

[unkempt moss]

Do explosives counter smoke right now?

[near scroll]

gang im ngl we should just nerf every gun

[analog pewter]

yeah they dispel smokes

[near scroll]

yes but its weird and inconsistent

[analog pewter]

explosives > smokes > fire > gas

[unkempt moss]

Never knew so I never tried.

Does it say this somewhere in game?

[chilly granite]

that would be logical so probably not

guys, we need ot do a class action movmenet

everyone go to game feedback and say

"We deserve an answer: why did the cb dodge a nerf"

[thin quarry]

Yes

[chilly granite]

please explain why ranked players are manly men

when they don't let you change to reserves becuase they're too afraid of counters KEKW

ranked sledge players barely exist

and sledge is the manliest weapon for sure

[unkempt moss]

We dont need counters with our superior skill. We're decisive, cunning, and studly. Our maps, full size. Our meta, heavy dominant. Our bulges, expressing through our denims.

[chilly granite]

hahah

for you, i belviee that, for most no

[unkempt moss]

Real talk though, ranked players are the biggest batch of crybabies and losers on the game.

[chilly granite]

desktop contorller ranked is the lowest of the low

[chilly granite]

my hand was huritn a lil less and so I played a ranked and we got 1st, 5th seed, +1400

watching tgm so much really helped my gamesense in cashout, mainly, when to fight and when to stall and how to stall

still, stall meta is crazy, stall gadgets all need a nerf tbh

[abstract acorn]

A meta revolving around wasting time on obj with util might not be the healthiest for the game, casual or comp. Players being nowhere near obj and just saving explosives/abilities to move it at the very last second isn't really fun

I'd think that a meta that's a bit more focused on actually fighting to defend/attack is a bit more interesting.

[serene glade]

That's part of why the finals is such a fun concept to me is the stalling and ability to win without just brain off shooting all the time.

[sudden pewter]

Name checks out. Everybody knows that the best way to play the game is to actually avoid playing it with stalls and objective manipulation

[serene glade]

I was told earlier to not doom about the game and that m60 hipfire change is a breath of fresh air to the game so I don't know anything tbh

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-smoke-monkey-smoke-smoking-space-gif-430262250616604924

[sudden pewter]

Is it just hipfire?

[serene glade]

Pretty sure it's an overall accuracy buff including hipfire. Basically making it more overlapping with the Lewis gun in my eyes

[compact tundra]

No it said they buffed the dispersion on both the ads and the hip fire

Probably my new best sword clip

[unkempt moss]

Oh thank god. They finally buffed the heavy weapon that needs the most help.

[sudden pewter]

Sexellent

[sudden pewter]

Akimbo still not being 100% accurate on first shot

[unkempt moss]

Game is saved. I'm logging in right now to buy all the esports bundles.

[sudden pewter]

Thank god, yes, ESPORTS is vital to the future of the game. Let Embark know you’re interested so they ignite balance for 2-3 months and prop up ESPORTS!!!

[compact tundra]

This balance patch today has actually killed a part of my soul. We got a grand total of two gadget balance changes and five guns, all of which are such minor changes.
And why are we nerfing Dome on the same patch that we gave glitches second charge back

[serene glade]

i based my decision to keep playing this season on this patch. So im glad they made the decision for me

[unkempt moss]

I expected a small number of changes, but to at least a couple major sticking points. Seeing an M60 buff really just sealed it for me. They have no idea what to do with this game.

[compact tundra]

Like 3 of the fucking 5 guns here they're trying to make more viable are already fucking viable

The M60, the XP, and the f car we're already fucking viable

[broken mulch]

there are so many unusable weapons rn

[unkempt moss]

The M60 felt like a laser beam and they made it more accurate.

[compact tundra]

The pike didn't even have its breakpoints changed so what's the point. And the P90 is helping box out the already way worse melee's and short range weapons so why is that one getting a fucking range buff of all things

[broken mulch]

but seriously when is spear getting buffed

[compact tundra]

If this balance change is a serious thing they're putting out I'm pretty sure it's never

This balance change to me has confirmed that they like where the meta is and don't want it changed and they're only tweaking weapons that are already viable within this meta

[unkempt moss]

I'll never understand the choice to make SMGs and Pistols range monsters. The revolvers you could make a case for, but even then it's not great.

[sudden pewter]

Heh, already done 😏

[serene glade]

they even hyped up this week last week by saying "expect meanigfunl balance updates next week"

[broken mulch]

no no the one point of damage to the pike is a massive buff

[broken mulch]

having to emote cancel the spin is wild

i dont even like spear but damn does it need a buff

[unkempt moss]

Community Manager sets em up, balance team knocks em down.

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, Embark is slated to remove that because it’s Tech and Embark hates Tech

[compact tundra]

That's honestly just making me even more pissed off. Why did this tiny little bit of balance changes have to be put off for a week because of vacations. All they did was tweak a few numbers

[unkempt moss]

Tech is where two system bugs meet.

[sudden pewter]

Swedish Studio bro
They work like 1/3 we do

[serene glade]

its all they ever do anymore. practically given up at this point

[broken mulch]

im also js not a fan of what they did to sword, now its good against new players and bad against good players and nobody is happy

[compact tundra]

They literally just typed in five new numbers. 7 if you count the two gadgets. You could do 1/3 of the work we do and still this would take like 20 minutes maybe 2 hours given their spaghetti ass code

I don't get it, I don't get what is their plan here what is the point. Make what's already viable more viable I guess

[broken mulch]

poke meta sucks

[unkempt moss]

They could do 1/3 of the work that the tismos do in here and come up with double that number

[compact tundra]

I'm going to kiss you on the lips Brady style

[broken mulch]

omw

[unkempt moss]

Buy skin, shoot AR, watch embark sanctioned esports

[broken mulch]

so many gadgets are also js ass rn, smoke's cd is absurd and gravity vortex js does nothing

but no buff the p90 we were begging for it

[unkempt moss]

At least they nerfed the data reshaper a few seasons ago. I almost saw two people using it a season.

[broken mulch]

honestly reshaper is p good its kinda slept on cause medium has so many good gadgets

[serene glade]

thats almost a 100% increase from the season before it

[unkempt moss]

Data Reshaper was crushing turret players in bronze so we nerfed it. Now turret is more viable to the bottom 500.

[broken mulch]

is anyone actually in bronze?

[unkempt moss]

Ive tried to get there a couple seasons in a row. I dont think it exists.

[broken mulch]

rarer sticker than ruby

[sudden pewter]

No skill!!!! Cope seethe cope cope fart!!!!

[sudden pewter]

I’ll try my best in ranked and if I get anywhere less than Diamond I’ll claim I was throwing ironically to save face

[broken mulch]

i still like playing sword cause sword is cool but goddamn does that camera lock hurt, i never wanted multihit on lunge anyways

[unkempt moss]

I honestly think you cant get below gold if youre playing even somewhat seriously. If you are stuck in silver, and gold if im being truly honest, theres an aspect of your game that you are purposely ignoring.

[sudden pewter]

I’m gods gift to gaming so this checks out

My big milky naturals are an advantage I leverage in every engagement

[unkempt moss]

And it's most likely macro. You can win games so easy just by understanding basic cash manipulation.

[muted condor]

Just a few hours a few basically grantees you’ll hit gold

God damn I had a stroke reading my own message

Not even gonna to try and edit it

[broken mulch]

damn i didnt even notice the second a few till u mentioned it

[unkempt moss]

If I can hit plat playing cloak and dagger with my MGL main after it dipping us in to silver, anyone can hit plat.

[broken mulch]

damn im gettin styled on thats wild

[muted condor]

I probably could if I tried. I just usually hit gold then play cashout for the rest of the season

[broken mulch]

i like ranked more than cashout js cause of how wipes work

[unkempt moss]

Whats your peak rank?

[muted condor]

I think gold

[broken mulch]

ive only been playin ranked for like 3 days and rn its gold 2

[muted condor]

Iv never played ranked religiously I find WT more fun

[broken mulch]

p much my first fps outside stuff like cyberpunk so my aim needs some work

but its def gotten better so

i refuse to do aim trainers i dont care enough abt getting good to do that they look so boring

[serene glade]

dont do aim trainers

just improving your aim by playing games you actually enjoy playing will just help your growth way better

[broken mulch]

im sure aim trainers work but im tryna have fun not be the best

also my favorite weapon is sword anyways which is mostly positioning now that lunge is ass

been playing healbeam medium recently tho its fun

[unkempt moss]

I tried them when I played valorant and I dont think it did anything. You're better off locking in your settings and playing TDM.

The training bots in range helped as well

[broken mulch]

yea i do the shooting range before loading a match it helps me avoid whiffing all my shots in my first fight

[unkempt moss]

Beauty of the finals is you dont need to be an aimbot to win.

I'm a testament to that.

[broken mulch]

there are also some weapons that dont really need aim

like flamethrower or most melees

[muted condor]

Doing aim trainers when you’re not in the top ranks is like reading books on how to perform heart surgery on a child while you’re still in your first year of med school

[unkempt moss]

They require a harder skill to learn imo

[broken mulch]

sure but those skills feel a whole lot better to learn cause its not js practice

practice helps sure but with melee and flamethrower positioning and timing is the most important thing which u can do without hours of practice

[unkempt moss]

What is it with you and child heart surgery?

[serene glade]

lmfaoooooooo

[broken mulch]

he's savin children man he's a good guy

[muted condor]

Don’t ask fucking questions

[analog pewter]

objective manipulation and stalling with gadgets are literally two of the things that make the finals dynamic, rather than brainless shootouts where the only skills tested are aim and positioning. part of the dynamism is learning how to build to counter stalling tactics. objective manipulation in particular is incredibly cool and rewarding and enables exciting plays. like what do you think they made objectives physics objects for?

go play a game like cod, this is such a square take

[muted condor]

Yeah I’m a great guy

https://tenor.com/view/berserk-griffith-smile-gif-26958203

[broken mulch]

i read berserk literally 2 days ago it was p good

[muted condor]

Gotta say bro is my role model

[analog pewter]

people who feel the need to do aim trainers are probably already in the top 5% of aim and are losing for other reasons, but their ego tells them it's the shots they missed

[unkempt moss]

Griffin?

[broken mulch]

man griffith is confusing asf, wish the chapters would come out faster

[muted condor]

:)

[unkempt moss]

Thats right its Griffith, i just know of his deeds.

[chilly granite]

that can still exist with a meta that isn't purely about stall

rather being about the ability to use utility and map conditions to set up kills

[broken mulch]

honestly berserk isnt that dark outside a few moments

[muted condor]

Bro takes good care of his skin and hair you know something more guys should do

[broken mulch]

he doesnt even have skincare he's js built like that

[muted condor]

More people should be like Griffith

[broken mulch]

he was p cool before || guts decided to dip ||

[chilly granite]

I mean I think dome nerf is fairly justified, but I also think that's the worst way to buff glitch? like give it aoe, give it anything else other than two chrages

two charges means it's literally ahard counter to double heavy, which means that you're never taking light as "light is good" but as "now we counter double heavy"

[chilly granite]

xp had trouble in tdm, but the others were totally fine in every mode

[broken mulch]

aoe would def be nice

i really want a smoke buff tho

[chilly granite]

they say that they want the end of poke meta

and then they buff poke meta

[chilly granite]

like the bug fixes and crap sure

but the balance changes could've comethis week and we could've had our outrage already

instead they earn two weeks of outrage for the price of one

one week of people being fucking pissed they dind't release the update, and a second week of outrage over how fucking awufl and inconsequenital it is

[broken mulch]

no that one point of damage into pike was huge! repeater has some serious competition now

[chilly granite]

6/9 embarkers who have a "class main" tag in this discord are medium, I wonder why they buff 3 medium weapons and leave the CB untouched

dude like, they said automatic can't keep up with repeater

they say the pike can't keep up with repeater

they say poke is an issue

and they don't nerf the repeater, they buff the automatics and the pike

[unkempt moss]

How did you even figure this number out?

[chilly granite]

yeah I got gold with 0 effort last season

this season Im still in silver but I've had appauling luck with leavers/afkers on my team - I've hit gold like 3 times now and lost it the following game becusae of a griefer

[broken mulch]

i think you could get bronze if the finals was your first videogame

[chilly granite]

tbh counter stall is too weak right now, tgm was cringe, stall won like 80% of the time

[chilly granite]

i clicked on their names and checked for a class tag

2 lights 1 heavy 6 mediums

I'm the guy who spends like 3 hours counting frames for accurate dps data do you really think I need a high tech solution when I can just count

it might have been 5 mediums, I didn't have a notepad, just kept count in my head and my adhd is pretty bad so I sometimes forget what Im counting lol

it depends a lot

if you're just playing stupidly like tdm, then yes

if you try thinking about how to compensate for a lackof hard skills, it's very easy to win

[unkempt moss]

Oh this is just embark people. I thought you meant the entire server.

[chilly granite]

oh yeah no way I'm checking whole server

60 people was already annoiyng

like, I use grapple in cashout, because although dash is better by like 10 different metrics, grapple lets me abusethe macro really good to win on cash

often you can just get second on tap/dunk gold lol

and my positioning and aim are better than non-controller players in my rank, so skipping dash isn't too punishing

controller killcams are traumatising

and I play grapple/nullifier, which means that I can get basically 100% stall

I might die for it, but they won't get the cash

and I'm not putting a lot of effort into macro//cashout manipulation, I'm relying a lot of hard skills

and macro/cashout manip are the things that win games way more than hard skills, espeically in this meta

final round is the one that relies the most on hard skills

so even if finals if your first game, I think gold is higly achieveable

the biggest question is just, are you nerdy enough to 1) care 2) work it out

[broken mulch]

first game of all time? nah u'd have to get used to wasd and movement in general, i didnt realize that that was hard at all till i got my dad to try elden ring

admittedly elden ring isnt the best first game but still

[sudden pewter]

That’s the point yes

[chilly granite]

it depends how many hours we talking about being into first game of all time

getting used to movement to the level you need, to hit gold, is probably only 20 hours of gamepaly

aim is not immportant for hitting gold imho, I'm pretty sure gooking could do a pacifist run to gold @unkempt moss

by far the hardest part is being nerdy enough to care and having the time to practice lol

but doing it in a month from nothing, I'm 90% sure is possible

[broken mulch]

no way he could do it solo queue

[chilly granite]

if you have gooking showing you how, 100% sure

doing pacifist runs in solo queue is exponentially harder than in trio, because your teammates will probably try to tdm instead ofplaying cashout

but with teammates who are just "not griefing apacifist run" instead of "playing well" or "playing poorly", I'm pretty sure he could

[broken mulch]

sure but thats asking for alot

[unkempt moss]

This just gave me a good idea... Trying to score a cashout win with only GooGun.

[chilly granite]

but my point is that, simply being a warm body in combat and then owning the cashouts, you can totally win

[broken mulch]

i can agree with that, at least up to gold

hey whats the most common rank?

[chilly granite]

bronze

no, it is bronze

[broken mulch]

honestly prob the rarest rank, as long as you know how to walk and press the button to shoot you'll prob be silver 4 at least

not honestly thats an exaggeration but ykwim

[unkempt moss]

Its most likely gold.

Low plat.

[broken mulch]

i think light is the most common class

[chilly granite]

20820 rs is 52k rank, with 20k rs(gold) being about 57k
10139 rs is 161k rank

[broken mulch]

thats js complete speculation based on what ive seen tho

[chilly granite]

so silver has around 105k players

[broken mulch]

i got no real numbers js personal experience

light has a noticable drop off in gold

[chilly granite]

9600 is 167906, so top bronze is around 165k rank

and 3k rs is 234k position

that's around 60k players, but I don't have a friend with 0 rs, so I don't know what the bottom of bronze is

so silver is at least 105k players, and bronze is likely a similar number, it's hard to be sure which is bigger

if the starting RS score is 12,500, then it's 260k total players, which would be silver being the largest rank

if starting RS score is 10k, then it's 330k, and bronze is the most populous rank

my friendslist has players from 3000rs to 50k

[unkempt moss]

3000rs is my dream. Bronze is paradise.

[rare fiber]

hi everyone

[muted condor]

Bronze is no different than gold in my experience