💣┇weapons-gadgets

[serene glade]

I will play mgl and get 15 kills while my light runs in and dies 10 times, he can synergize my nuts on his face

[unkempt moss]

You're thinking about this from the point of trying to be effective. Most lights are just there to use whatever they want, eat hot chip, get eliminated, and lie.

[unkempt moss]

I seriously doubt youre effective with the MGL.

[compact tundra]

Weirdly enough the most dominant WT team I've ever played on was a mgl, flamethrower, and sledge hammer

[unkempt moss]

Was it with me and Googs? That sounds like us

[serene glade]

Is there a chart that shows how much damage the slam for CnS does relative to height

[unkempt moss]

Yeah.

[serene glade]

Proof?

[unkempt moss]

Nah.

[molten granite]

Like a bad player with mouse and keyboard, and like very very worse with gamepad, i can say that aim assist is not so bad

[serene glade]

Nice

[unkempt moss]

Nice

[keen turtle]

I'd really like to see Ranked badges when discussing meta etc. I hit plat regularly within a couple matches of the season and then go casual. I really dont think meta chasing is the play at most levels of play.

[shell hornet]

well with the game currently being pretty dead by the time you hit plat ur already top 2k

[unkempt moss]

Is this actually true?

[keen turtle]

dead game talk is the same boat as meta chasing. check the steam charts lol not a substantial pop difference and a match has 16 people? plenty of people lol

spoilt by FortNite and other pop culture games. your reference is whack

[serene glade]

Meta chasing is safe because embark won't ever change anything about the game

[keen turtle]

seat belts are safe, this issa game

Demat nerf was huge and changed the pace of the game a couple seasons ago

[serene glade]

Lol

My dong is huge, now we are both lying

[unkempt moss]

Hot chip

[compact tundra]

Took me like 20 min but I found the photos, this is the most dominant team I've ever played on

[unkempt moss]

Is there a more based comp than 3H?

[serene glade]

Triple light dash arn

[young pewter]

3 ks23 players that shoot at a perfectly offset time to become a rapid fire ks23

[shell hornet]

well the gamer averages 10-16k players but split across multiple servers, ranks and gamemodes that really isnt alot

[keen turtle]

also only steam numbers

[shell hornet]

well believe it or not i play with crossplay off

[serene glade]

If the KS hipfire was better. I'd be a full on ks charge and slam believer. Nice fast pace chunk into charge and slam. Just feels a little too inconsistent because of it

[shell hornet]

and the majority of high rank players are on pc

[keen turtle]

i cant find an alt weapon for goo gun. i always run sledge

[unkempt moss]

GooGun works well with legitimately any heavy weapon.

[shell hornet]

sa and flame are pretty good with it

[keen turtle]

idk, i feel like it needs a weapon that doesnt lose a lot from being swapped off. i.e. sledge at range

[unkempt moss]

You just gotta adjust how you use it. If you want the basic answer its Flame, SA, Spear, Hammer that are the basic ones people use it with. I think SA isnt played with Goo because mesh is better with it.

Maybe work in to SA.

[lapis field]

Would a Cerberus rework be cool if it had 3 types of shells for each barrel, one slug, one dragons breath, and last regular shell

[compact tundra]

Na, I think that'd take away from its identity and not add too much outside of a single slug shot

[sonic zephyr]

sounds horrible. i want this guy sent to exile

[lapis field]

😂😂lol

[unkempt moss]

There's already a wepsNgadg approved buff to cerberus. Nothing wrong with dropping ideas though.

Keep bringing novel ideas

[sonic zephyr]

theres also nothing wrong with calling bad ideas out really

yeah yeah novel ones but only the novel GOOD ones

[unkempt moss]

Keep brining whatever ideas. Its better than people asking what meta loadout to run, asking to nerf the weapon they just died to, or bow user monologuing.

[sonic zephyr]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dont listen to him!! ask for NERFS, ASK FOR NERFS!!!

EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE BUTCHERED!!!!

[compact tundra]

I just stood in front of a flamethrower with my ARN and lost, flamethrower is so op and needs to be nerfed, and why is the ARN so weak

[sonic zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-star-wars-laught-rire-emperor-gif-20151979

yes my child. let your hatred for flamethrowers call for nerfs!

[unkempt moss]

Flamethrower is so good.

[serene glade]

When is heavy getting a nerf. I ran in a straight line at a fat guy with a mini gun and lost the 1v1 with my M(man I love men)11. This is just not acceptable

[wild zenith]

so, is v9s now weaker than it was before the buff?

[noble saddle]

Most lights run straight down a choke point without any cover and then quit after dying twice in the first two minutes of cashout and burning all their coins

[unkempt moss]

Technically

[broken surge]

Not necessarily noticeably

[unkempt moss]

The secret is that it was never really bad

[chilly pebble]

ok

[unkempt moss]

This new double tap for reaction thing is obnoxious

[wild zenith]

people were acting like this gun was low tier before the buff

[spring spear]

not enough to make a real difference, theres just an actual reason to use lh1 now at longerranges, before the v9s would outdamage it

[analog pewter]

You guys are way too much of haters

[serene glade]

Embarks favorite word is cannibalizing, and then they buff a gun to invalidate another. What are they cooking over there

I will forever be an embark hater

They are a broken clock with this game

[chilly granite]

part of the issue is that light is very very squishy so it depends a lot on doing enough damage to win the fight in a small window, so discretionary weapon choices are hard to make

[unkempt moss]

Homie speed ran red in wepsNgadg with monologues

[chilly granite]

hehehehhe

and light build main

you guys dodged my phd on the size of the arrow hitbox

[unkempt moss]

How? You wrote your rough draft in here.

Also, admitting to using reddit? Yeeeesh

[chilly granite]

you missed me doing all the testing and math

for my exact conclusion of 18.5cm

[chilly granite]

also de-monoing my logues would be appreciated, I've very intersted in feedback

[unkempt moss]

I'm sure someone will discuss it with you.

RS and Unjust are the goats of entertaining stuff like that.

[chilly granite]

man I really feel like I can't give up any of h+, gateway and glitch

[compact tundra]

Bruh I can only discuss the bow so much before my brain gives out. Like I have multiple pages written on sword and I don't talk about it near a fraction of how much you talk about Bow

[chilly granite]

you act like my brain hasn't given out

[compact tundra]

You have a next level dedication to that damn weapon

[chilly granite]

what do u think about light gadgets btw? I'm pretty sure Im somewhat skillissued but I really don't wnat to run h+, glitch, gateway but it's kinda too good

I'm ass at throwing gateway but it's so op it barely evn matters lmao

[compact tundra]

Yea they're really good but I think light has a ton of good gadgets. You could easily sub any of those for like sonar, gas nade/pyro nade, goo nade, breach charge, ECT...

[chilly granite]

I was trying sonar, thermal bore, flash but idk

[sudden pewter]

I’m a certified card carrying hater

[chilly granite]

I feel like thermal bore is better than breach charge but I@m pretty sure that's a bad take?

[sudden pewter]

I’ve got a membership and everything

[chilly granite]

I'm really, really ass at throwing breach charges

is there any way to deal with dome steals without glitch grenade and with a weapon that does crap dps like bow/sr84?

[compact tundra]

It's really situational. On bow, Sr, LH1, and ARN, then thermal bore is better cause you can open sightlines from a distance without setup, but with more brawl focused weapons then being able to remotely stall the cash box or open up walls on command from close range is better. I think thermal bore and breach charge are pretty balanced side grades to each other

[wet night]

Did they buff melee yet?

[chilly granite]

nulli and goo both get blocked by dome though right? I feel like diving the dome is suicide

[compact tundra]

Nope, they still hate us

[compact tundra]

I thought you meant to deal with stealing

[chilly granite]

I think it's probably a kind, play with your team better thing

[wet night]

They have so many boxing skins I wonder if they will a brawler at some point. Like maybe tactical gloves or brass knuckles for the heavy

[chilly granite]

gloves of running quickly

[compact tundra]

Yea, domes are great cause they give you a temporary advantage, but I will say watch the heavy that throws the dome. If they're panic doming cause they're low then you can push and kill them

[wild zenith]

thermal bore lets you shoot it and immediately swap to weapon. breach charge forces you to keep it in your hand till you detonate

[chilly granite]

yeah that's not usually an issue, the problem is when they dome the point and just go for steal with their teammate watching

probably I just need to play it patniently and let my teammates responde and work with them rather than trying to glitch+murder everyone on my own which is basiclaly my current strategy

[compact tundra]

I'm confused with your statement, You can swap off the breach charge after placing it and then swap back to detonate

[wild zenith]

that slows down the detonate

[chilly granite]

with the bow it's antisynergy because you can draw while the thermite is thinking, where the breach charge doesn't give you time to draw before the drop

[compact tundra]

That's fine cause usually you pre place the breach to stall with

[wild zenith]

im saying if you want to aggressively make a new sightline, but also are scared of getting jumped

[compact tundra]

Oh yea, that's why I said they're good side grades, breach has better defence while thermal has better offense

[wild zenith]

yee

i prefer thermal, but they both have merit

[chilly granite]

do you think that sonar/thermal/flash is playable with enough skill

[wild zenith]

breach is like c4's lil bro

[wild zenith]

flash is the only questionable pick here i think

[compact tundra]

I usually play sword or double barrel so breach is better for me since I can retreat and still stall remotely

[wild zenith]

replace flash with gate and youre golden

[chilly granite]

ugh but flash is my favourite

[compact tundra]

Eh I think flash still has it's uses, and it's pretty good for long ranged poke like bow or sniper

[chilly granite]

idk how you stall with breach, every time I've tried we've lost catastrophically

and gateway is my least favourite lol, I really hate how clunky it is to use

[compact tundra]

Hide the breach charges under the cashbox and detonate it when they start stealing

[wild zenith]

breach also has the weakness of making really tiny holes

ive placed 3 below the cash and sometimes it still fails to drop

[chilly granite]

^^ I think that's my problem

[wild zenith]

but i guess thats my skill issue

[compact tundra]

Yea but you get 3 of them, so you can risk it and try to make the cash box drop 3 floors or play it carefully and remove a whole section of 1 floor

[chilly granite]

I'm not sure about the placement and stuff and sometimes it just doesn't drop

idk if the enemy is moving my charges somehow ?

but it's good to know that I have the right idea, it's just my execution is shit

[compact tundra]

They can shoot them, but oftentimes it's people not knowing just how small the breach charges explosion is

[chilly granite]

skill issue is solveable

I do think the thermal bore and flash syngerize better than breach charge

[compact tundra]

My favorite sniper loadout used to be thermal bore, smoke, and thermal vision. So I could clear out sightlines and then smoke them to make the enemy think they're safe only to pop them through the smoke

[chilly granite]

hehehe I used to be sr84 main and play thermal smokes

[compact tundra]

It was a super fun loadout

[chilly granite]

oh yeah btw I got 13 bow

[compact tundra]

Big dog, how much bow do you fucking play

[chilly granite]

enouhg to be rank 45 tdm

[compact tundra]

Like I've played sword since the open beta and I'm like level 10

[chilly granite]

I'm also degen tdming

[compact tundra]

My flamethrower is level like 9 and I've played that since open beta

[chilly granite]

if you degen tdm'd you'd probably have 13 sword pretty fast

I only got lvl 12 bow this season

I only started playing bow in like late season 7?

I only started grinding finals at all in late season 7

the bow feels so much better in tdm than ranked because like 80% of your enemies in tdm are lights hahaha

I used to be a sr84 grapple smoke thermal bankit main

I miss bank it

[unkempt moss]

I can only talk about GooTech like that. Or about the GOUF patch.

[chilly granite]

how degenerate is breach, vortex, flash

I think breach charge is the right one for me to use if I'm using it properly maybe
gives me better ways to deal with dome shield steals and better recharge time I think?

plus I think flash+breach have better synergy actually

throw a flsah and pop a breach when it's about to explode type thing

[unkempt moss]

I use GooGun exclusively and its only 10. The loadout experience is scuffed af

[chilly granite]

nullifier is annoying, I really like it but it requires more brainpower than i have and you need a glitch to deal with a bubble steal

man wht's the counter to mgl spam on point break

[compact tundra]

Get close to the mgl, or run APS if that's difficult

[serene glade]

Mgl never getting a buff huh

[unkempt moss]

Is sniper good on point break?

[unkempt moss]

No. You get nothing.

[serene glade]

Just a schmeckle of embarks good graces

[compact tundra]

Kinda, it can be good but depends on the map and your ability to sit outside the zone and snipe

[unkempt moss]

Sounds kinda antisemitic tbh

[serene glade]

Not again embark please, I've been a stellar model goy

[unkempt moss]

I should try pointbreak more. The different meta sounds fun.

[unkempt moss]

Yeah 4 hour incoming.

I wonder if bow is good on point break.

[compact tundra]

Yea, it's super Asymmetrical since heavies dominate the defence but medium is really good on attackers. I like running flamethrower tho cause I just melt gaggle fuckers

[chilly granite]

not very, there's usually too many roofsitters who outrange you wtih cb, sr84, etc, and in the midrange/close range fights there's just too mcuh shit, mgl spam and the like

it's fun as hell but not very good

[serene glade]

Just 1 damage for mgl. Please I'm begging. Ill still take the useless in an open field and horrible fighting on angled rooftops. Just a schmeckle please

[unkempt moss]

Eat another gallon of soup lard ass

[chilly granite]

grav/breach/flashes is being good and fun in h2h inhouses

[serene glade]

[unkempt moss]

I exclusively play ultra strong weapons so I wouldn't know.

[compact tundra]

Those people are a big reason I love winch, "oh your camping a roof, not anymore"

[plucky spade]

they live among us

[unkempt moss]

I didnt even know TDM had ranked tbh

[compact tundra]

I think every game mode has a leaderboard

[unkempt moss]

Where do you even check that?

[compact tundra]

I think on your profile and go to the leaderboard tab

[chilly granite]

click your profile pic

for tdm it's just your total objective score (eliminations wihtin the time limit)

[unkempt moss]

Ill check it when I get home.

Dagger probably rips in point break

All that chaos means free kills

[compact tundra]

Depends on the enemies, you also see more spears, flamethrowers, and GL's in point break so more chances of dying randomly

[unkempt moss]

You underestimate my dagger

[compact tundra]

And also with 8 players there's usually always someone watching a players back

[unkempt moss]

We'll see

My dagger loadout has been perfected.

But its for cashout. So we'll see if it crosses over.

[compact tundra]

What is it, cause I controversially play cloak and dagger

[unkempt moss]

Cloak and Dagger is the right way to play it. If you use dash you can't actually say you play dagger. You play server desync

Cloak and Dagger, sonar, nullifier, infuser if I have heavies.

[compact tundra]

That's a funny ass statement

[unkempt moss]

I play a support style light with and dont force opportunities.

[compact tundra]

Fair, I usually run cloak and dagger, gateway, vanish, and sonar

[compact tundra]

I play support light on sword but on dagger I'm just a gremlin thats hiding in every corner

[unkempt moss]

Support Gremlin is OP on dagger

[compact tundra]

My support is removing 1/3 of their team while they still think we're behind them

[unkempt moss]

I mostly gremlin trophies or gargoyle objectives.

Im telling you, drop Vanish for nully.

Nullifier is wildly over tuned.

[sacred hollow]

What’s the deal with the thermal vision rework?

[compact tundra]

That's a very good question, wish embark answered those

[plain linden]

I've been trying to run Defib in TDM and it lets it into my loadout until I spawn and it replaces it with other items and has an X on it in the respawn menu

I took a bit of a break from the game, did they add this as an update for TDM or do I have some other underlying issue?

[ebon wave]

was thermal vision broken before?

[compact tundra]

They updated TDM to remove defib's and remove reviving. Defib's were literally throwing the game so removing them made since

[compact tundra]

I mean it had bugs but I don't have a clue as to why it needs the stun gun treatment

[plain linden]

Aaahh I see

[shell sonnet]

yeah, its been removed from TDM

but why is it still in your loadout to begin with?
you can retroactievly add it since its crossed out, and its supposed to be replaced by a standartitem (i believe starting at frags?)

not just when youre into the game already

[sacred hollow]

Penny for your thoughts how about this idea; the thermal vision works like normal/before just you can’t use weapons, it would be good for strategic planning during games and if you have a party, it makes sense for light, they could just turn down the duration and I think I could be balanced

Or keep it in but just as an ability for lights, I mean the heavies have 4 abilities so it wouldn’t matter, it might open a new avenue for mediums to get another ability

[compact tundra]

I think that'd make it really kinda useless since it's not that useful as just scouting, it was already kinda bad and was really held up by it's combo with smoke nades, but making it an ability might could work, think doubt it'll really be on equal footing to dash

[sacred hollow]

True, dash is the best, but who knows what embark has in store, maybe they might just silently take it out

[compact tundra]

God I hope not, it was really good for playing on a low rez TV or for visual impairments, also just a lot of fun to use

[sacred hollow]

Yea I agree, running in a toppling building throwing smokes was always cool

[vocal stone]

Hey guys, what do you think about quality of life update that lets you try on multiple different items from style/appearance sessions simultaneously, so that you could know in advance what items do you really need to by in order to complete your set

[compact tundra]

They kinda already have this with the ability to create a cart while making outfits, but it could be useful to be allowed to also add battle pass skins to your cart

[unkempt moss]

Im hoping they just give thermal optics

[compact tundra]

Like as a spec?

Or as a sight?

[vocal stone]

Oh, i completely forgot abt cart, thx

[unkempt moss]

A sight.

You'd just need to balance them so they dont completely negate invis

[shell sonnet]

ive never really noticed so far

but very recently i suddenly got 3 very obvious behind cover deaths

anyone else?

[unkempt moss]

Oh yeah. There's times I'll jump off a building and die almost two floors down trying to escape.

Just part of the game these days.

[shell sonnet]

just that ive suddenly seemed to experience a jump

that confuses me a bit

[unkempt moss]

Could have just been a wonky server

[upper pelican]

Question

Do y'all like healing meta or ts ahh type shi

[serene glade]

It's whatever, lights healing is the only one that is overtuned

[upper pelican]

It's light running heals + mediums running heals

Cuz I think because of that there is so much of 3rd team fight type shi u know

Anyway I have a solution

Buff pike so mediums have to shoot now not heal

[serene glade]

[upper pelican]

Valid?

[unkempt moss]

Walk me through this

[serene glade]

Lights is the problem that drastically changes interactions and is an insane burst amount. So buff one medium gun to make them do damage more efficiently. Uhhhh yeah you cooked something up here

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-bite-orange-cat-orange-cat-attack-gif-10142361798712867466

[upper pelican]

It's easy, fights are too long so buff pike to make em quick ong

[sudden pewter]

What.

[serene glade]

Troll or serious is a coin flip to me at this point. I was leaning troll but he said ong so he's dead ass no cap frfr

[unkempt moss]

I mean he's got a point.

[upper pelican]

No im not trolling

[serene glade]

I still think heavy should be able to eat enemy trophies for over shield. But nobody wants to back me on this

[sudden pewter]

Explain in a way millennial zoomers with broccoli hair would understand. At minimum 1 reference to VTubers and ECelebrities

Because from my omnipotent never incorrect jiggles when I walk standpoint fights aren’t long.

[upper pelican]

So there is 2 vaults at one moment. When fights are too long because of heals type shi one team can end their fight a lot sooner then the other and they can go grief. Now look at season 7 when mediums was running pike the fights was swagy ong

[sudden pewter]

So either this mf bronze or he’s trolling

[unkempt moss]

It's like if tfue got a low taper

You dig?

[sudden pewter]

Chat, is this cap

[unkempt moss]

🚫 🧢

[sudden pewter]

I’m rolling a Gamer Supplement Joint as we speak, once I’ve conversed with the gods I’ll get back to you

[unkempt moss]

Roger that

[unkempt moss]

I'm with you my fellow kid

[compact tundra]

The fuck is this logic bro

[upper pelican]

It's true tho

Scientifically

[compact tundra]

Actually I back it, the heal meta is stinky, buff every weapon to one shot everyone, make this shit csgo

[sudden pewter]

So I’m back, and he said “this ain’t it”

Suggested making every weapon 2tap Light though.

[upper pelican]

Nah pike is enough

[compact tundra]

So many already do tho😭

[sudden pewter]

Not enough. Your kind deserve to suffer

[unkempt moss]

I cant wait until the SA one pumps lights again like beta.

The world was right back then.

[sudden pewter]

SA will finally be useable in the hands of a Sub Plat Player

[compact tundra]

I want the flamethrower to turn back into the napalm thrower like it was in the beta

Let me burn entire buildings again embark

[sudden pewter]

I want voice moderation to go away and the chat filter to be opt-in like in the beta

Embark is propping up an environment where nobody wants to talk lest they risk being silenced

[compact tundra]

Bro we had that just a few seasons ago, and I mad agree, I shouldn't be banned for calling my teammate a ta rd, it's their fault for fumbling the bag

[sudden pewter]

Give players the tools to moderate their own experience. The communication UI needs an overhaul anyway

It’s 2026 and I still can’t hold tab, click someone’s name, and mute them.

[unkempt moss]

Why was the beta so good? Was it because it was still the wild west? Before esports?

[sudden pewter]

Everything was experimental and no solid meta

[unkempt moss]

Take me back, chat.

[compact tundra]

Yea, it was just this season that they fixed the chat bug that made console players messages get interrupted every single time something happened

[sudden pewter]

Some things were OP ofc but you saw everything

[sudden pewter]

There’s still a hidden chat cooldown on PC.

[unkempt moss]

People still tell me making everything busted isnt the way. Just shoot AR and buy skins they say.

Every day I'm proven right.

[compact tundra]

Not a chat cool down, every time the screen changed, like you go from pregame to in the game, it's physically closed our key board and delete anything we had typed if we hadn't sent it yet

[sudden pewter]

People claiming the game can be balanced with only buffs and no nerfs are glue sniffers. This isn’t HellDivers

[serene glade]

Eat your breakpoints bud and take your meds

[unkempt moss]

It could be.

We need to buff everything

[serene glade]

Embark will buff one gun a season to be broken and then slowly nerf it back to what it was before. That's all you'll get

[unkempt moss]

Buff light players intelligence. Buff Medium submissiveness.

[sudden pewter]

“We need to let the dust settle before we make more changes”

[unkempt moss]

Buff heavy gut size.

[serene glade]

Break 5 guns at a time and tune them people wouldnt be as upset

Massive changes are coming (it's a new Esports bundle)

[unkempt moss]

Massive changes are coming. Head2Head is now the premier esports mode.

[serene glade]

Unironically seen people ask for that

I've seen "ranked should be 1v1" please just go play CoD

[unkempt moss]

Is it because of third parties?

[sudden pewter]

Mainly, I’d assume yeah

[serene glade]

Probably, people hate 3rd parties even tho a majority if the time if you're getting 3rd partied it's on you for prolonging a fight/not recognizing it

[sudden pewter]

Yeah but we’re not allowed to tell them “get better at the game and it becomes less of an issue” because it’s toxic

So erm, maybe don’t be so problematic sweetie???!?

[serene glade]

Do think it's weird they removed the information of the kill feed and deaths on the scoreboard. Feel like having information like that would make it easier to identify a 3rd party coming or not

[sudden pewter]

The discrepancy between the gamemodes needs to be addressed in a season dedicated to QoL at this point

And #🎓┇eggcademy needs to be updated. Lots of information players need but don’t have.

I shouldn’t have to go to the wiki to see actual damage numbers of weapons. It should be in-game.

[compact tundra]

I think head to head would make a fun side bracket like doubles in melee but I think cash out should stay the main competitive format maybe with a bit of tweaking

[unkempt moss]

That was supposed to be this season. It should have been fixing all the bad guns and gadgets.

[serene glade]

You don't like the vague bar slider thing?

[sudden pewter]

Yeah it’s just a bar that tells us nothing. The worst possible UI

[unkempt moss]

Every weapon is OP in my hands. I dont need to see damage.

[sudden pewter]

Sorry dude, +2 months of nothing because TGM. At least the base-game received some major changes even with balance lacking

[unkempt moss]

They need to add a duos cashout.

[serene glade]

They need to lock in

[compact tundra]

That could be fun, tho I don't think it'd add much, I'd like to see 3 v 3 bank it tho, I've tried it in private matches and it's super fun

[unkempt moss]

I just dont want to have a dumb ass light forced upon me anymore in cashout

[sudden pewter]

H2H is a super solid gamemode and it’s just 3v3 without any possible third parties. But if the teams are uneven it’s a stomp because there’s nothing for the lesser team to bounce off of

[serene glade]

Part of the fun of the finals is the threat of 3rd parties and how chaotic it can get. But that's not serious enough

[unkempt moss]

Ive always been surprised that ranked doesnt allow swapping from reserves.

Have they ever said why?

[sudden pewter]

The Chaos of the game is the main draw for casuals, but the pro-scene is ran in such a way to minimize as much of that chaos as possible

90% of teams run the same comp

[serene glade]

Yeah it's almost like this game isnt designed for competitive play

[unkempt moss]

Nice edit esports shill

[serene glade]

They want me to suffer when I load in on moving platforms with mgl

[serene glade]

The embark plant

[sudden pewter]

Guys you just don’t get it. ESPORTS is vital to the future of this game

[serene glade]

Please watch, we'll turn drops on, please

[sudden pewter]

Spear rework will be tied to twitch subscriber milestone

[serene glade]

That would be based. Holding the games balancing hostage behind a paywall of twitch subs

[unkempt moss]

The $30 premiumer premium battle pass isnt enough anymore guys. Subathon time!

[sudden pewter]

$30 Premium that’s gone to what so far? Servers are still ass

[serene glade]

To their vacation funds

[unkempt moss]

Gam gam needed that hip, fellas. Be nice.

[serene glade]

Have you ever jiggle peaked for a micro second and then just taken 150 damage. Kinda cool tbh

[unkempt moss]

Side note. I love that SausageGPT burns his 6 hours on absolutely nuking people in feedback.

I strive to be like him.

[serene glade]

You waste it on fat posting

[unkempt moss]

I fat fingered it. I didnt mean to type that.

[compact tundra]

It's truly a remarkable trait of his, I do it sometimes to cause those mother fuckers have some dog water takes

[serene glade]

Im slowly building up more bullet points for my not ironic post

I'm adding don't nerf medium support for a nice throwback

[sudden pewter]

He’s so real for that

[unkempt moss]

Bow User must be European. He's quiet during the days and posts all night. Possibly Sri Lankan

[sudden pewter]

I wish I had the gumption to scrape actual data to disprove others assumptions about balance rather than tell them they’re idiots and escalate the situation

We should all strive to be a little more like Sausage

Not me though. I’m perfect just the way I am 💅

[unkempt moss]

Data posters and escalation posters are like peanut butter and jelly. Dont worry.

[sudden pewter]

@indigo nexus He’s already dead bro 😤

I’m sure he’s just venting in the dedicated sludge channel because he’s mad

Dropped this 👑 King

[upper pelican]

Is it day or night rn

[serene glade]

Just lie?

[sudden pewter]

I’m basically Abraham Lincoln bro I can’t lie

Lying to a Bronze 3 Light does nothing for me. I need him to know he’s bad at the game, and tell him he can improve.

Namely by not showering, ending any social ties that would distract him from the game, and eating mainly grains.

[devout plume]

courteously of discords ai overview

[indigo nexus]

I only occasionally have useful feedback, it'd go to waste otherwise

[compact tundra]

Bro the fuck is this?

[indigo nexus]

it's a hidden discord feature, it creates conversation summaries constantly

it's prone to being... very inaccurate

[devout plume]

its created many vastly inaccurate yet very humorous interpretations of events which i like to show to people sometimes

[shell sonnet]

over sperate days/matches?

[sudden pewter]

AI Summary, Discord intends to roll out AI features including moderation

[devout plume]

this just so happened to be one of those times i honestly doubt if it will come to main branch dc as its 1 useless and 2 no one cares nor did they ask for it

[proven sable]

How do i see this

[spring spear]

ranked players dont like it because it allows for cheesy counterpicks that can disable an entire playstyle

[sudden pewter]

It’s to prevent rock paper scissor picking

[spring spear]

anyway yes this game wasnt made for comp play and focusing so hard on esports is a mistake
but also considering they dont listen to comp players when it comes to balance anyway

[sudden pewter]

But it’s got drawbacks as well, there’s no silver bullet in that regard

[sudden pewter]

According to some stinky poopoo heads that’s wrong!!! Appoh killed sword

[devout plume]

heres another one i find to be quite humorous

[spring spear]

man i wish they were right repeater wouldve been neutered 3 seasons ago

[unkempt moss]

You gotta look outside bud. I cant help you.

[serene glade]

I did have breakfast this morning

[unkempt moss]

I'd love to see a mf try and counter pick me. They're gonna need more than their reserves to do that.

If two full teams and my light random throwing cant stop me and my duo what's a new gadget gonna do.

[compact tundra]

You talk a big game for an unproven talent. I counter pick everyone, I can counter pick you

[devout plume]

you cannot counter pick someone with infinitely large pockets...just hold all the items thats obviously what hes doing

[shell sonnet]

nuke:

[unkempt moss]

You cant counrerpick 600iq googun and my MGL savant I let off the leash. You're simultaneously not smart enough or dumb enough to stop us.

[devout plume]

i personally think what i said sufficed

[unkempt moss]

You cant possibly be dumber than Googs unfortunately

[shell sonnet]

watch me

[unkempt moss]

You will try

[shell sonnet]

do, or do not, there is no try

[compact tundra]

This is an active challenge, I'll counter pick both of you with only the dumbest of strategies. Your gonna see strategies that'll baffle and amaze I tell you hwat

[serene glade]

My mgl tech is insane bruv

[indigo nexus]

I would like to learn goo+MGL at some point

Tried it for one (1) game and it didn't go well, but I think I was not in the right... headspace, or something

[unkempt moss]

He's a charge and slammer

[devout plume]

ah yes...professional Esporters here (i hope we can all agree)

[serene glade]

Its not worth, I've tried so hard with goo gun, charge and slam is just a necessity that makes it playable. Goo grenade tho is really nice for setting up open field/terrain fights

[indigo nexus]

Not otherwise, but with MGL yes

[compact tundra]

Ill use the market stall technique, you don't stand a chance

[unkempt moss]

I'm going to master MGooL

[sudden pewter]

I suggest TDM. More combat experience and the +2 enemies present at any given time lets you experience the highs and lows more often

[serene glade]

You need that one tap option of mgl shot charge and slam on lights. Goo grenade and grenade, and pyro mine are the things I've been running. Wouldn't change any of them tbh

[indigo nexus]

Fair. Point break works great for that kind of gameplay too though, imo, with more relation to cashout

[unkempt moss]

I think my next loadout is the smores loadout. Spear, GooGun, Pyro Mine/Gren, and what's rhe fourth?

[shell sonnet]

my mine stacks with goo would probably work nicely

fpg for finishers seems mandatory, but lockbolt could ensure an escape...

[compact tundra]

I mean it needs the crackers so barricades

[unkempt moss]

Thats why we keep you around bud.

[indigo nexus]

smores loadout?

[unkempt moss]

When you get good enough at the game or bored enough, you start making dumb loadouts and taking them in to ranked.

You cook(pyro) the marshmallow(goo) on the skewer(spear).

Then you take your chocolate man and run him in to the crackers(barricades)

[compact tundra]

I'm glad it clicked for you the exact same way it clicked for me

[indigo nexus]

I see

[unkempt moss]

It helps with your flexibility of mind when thinking about the game. Its an art. You should try it Sausage.

You have to couple it with your look though. Its a whole game experience. Our group calls it a larp.

[shell sonnet]

pfff
prefer to create bs tech instead

[unkempt moss]

I get a message from a friend saying they have a new larp, and I know its time for the finals.

[indigo nexus]

Hmm.

MGL
goo gun
goo grenade
grav cube
lockbolt

That might be a maximally disruptive loadout, you could be very annoying

[unkempt moss]

Hold on. You have to name it something cool.

Has to be a theme.

[serene glade]

G3 sports

[unkempt moss]

You could call it the asteroid belt. Theyre space walking and the goo is the asteroids, mgl is the comet.

[indigo nexus]

Maybe, uh... something to do with a circus

[sudden pewter]

As someone that’s started playing Point Break almost exclusively I can agree. 👍

[compact tundra]

Yea that's fun, me and @thick holly have are own goo gun tech that has been gate kept because we haven't made a video on it yet

[unkempt moss]

There you go. Run with it!

[serene glade]

Make a clown fit and load up with the circus build

[indigo nexus]

I sort of hope they take point break as a replacement for TDM, but maybe people love that mode, I don't know.

[unkempt moss]

Lewis Rollercoaster instead of MGL?

[shell sonnet]

the jumpy thing?

[indigo nexus]

MMMmmm changing my drip might be going too far

[compact tundra]

Yea, the jump pad cancel

[unkempt moss]

Its okay. When youre ready.

Larping isnt for everyone.

[thick holly]

We gotta get on at some point to actually test it

[unkempt moss]

Lets hear it?

[compact tundra]

We do, I have clips of how it works and can confirm it still works we just gotta get some good clips of it

[thick holly]

I know it still works, I do it sometimes in the practice range when I'm waiting for friends to get on

[compact tundra]

GooKing wants to know, may be pass the secret? We have dual ownership so I don't tell people without your permission as well

[thick holly]

I don't mind, you can share it if you wish

[compact tundra]

Aight, we just posting it here or do I DM him

[thick holly]

up to you ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[compact tundra]

Fair enough, not a lot people hang out in here so I'ma just leak it to my main chat if that's cool

[thick holly]

No worries

Oh yeah wait I did have a game on fortune stadium where I did use it

It actually worked pretty well to stall them

[unkempt moss]

With jump pad? Is it the pseudo kick flip?

[thick holly]

It is with jumppad but it's not that

[compact tundra]

Aight @unkempt moss

This is the video of the tech and the methodology of how we found it.

Also we named it the pad cancel

Started with us trying to disable jump pads with goo gun. Mscoaster figured out how to block them, I figured out the dead zones, Mscoaster figured out how to use the dead zones to block, I figured out how to do it with 3 blobs, Mscoaster figured out how to do it with 2 goo blobs, I figured out how to do it with one but it was finicky, he discovered how to reliably block with 2, then I figure out that whether or not the jump pad would bounce the goo was based on angle and momentum, Mscoaster figured out how to disable a jump pad with one while taking it but not reliably, and I figured out the method

But basically you can cancel any jump pad, the mediums jump pads and the triangle jump pads use the same angle while the bigger circular ones require you to aim a bit farther from yourself

[unkempt moss]

Interesting.

[abstract kestrel]

Would be cool if medium had throwing axes

[sudden pewter]

Prior to PB TDM was my home.

[unkempt moss]

Do you have to open the gadget wheel? You do it in both.

[thick holly]

No it's just timing it correctly while looking down

[compact tundra]

No, you just need to make sure you goo yourself while taking the jump pad, I think it's the fact that the goo is in your hit box that makes it not bounce

[thick holly]

You can also do it with medium jump pad

[unkempt moss]

Name needs some work but this is good stuff.

[thick holly]

Yeah we didn't know what to call it lol

[serene glade]

Goocock block

[thick holly]

It's probably not gunna be a meta thing, but it's some interesting tech that's more of a "comes in handy"

[unkempt moss]

Comes in handy is something I do on a regular basis. Ill be practicing this for sure.

[thick holly]

Have fun with it

[unkempt moss]

Well done, gentleman.

[thick holly]

I think at worst case scenario with the tech is the enemy is stalled for a few seconds while they shoot the goo

Which could definitely be handy in some cases

[unkempt moss]

Yeah, but that could be enough to keep you safe or set up.

[thick holly]

Mhm

[unkempt moss]

Any sort of control you can get wins games.

[compact tundra]

I like it for when I'm being chased on fortune stadium or parts of skyway stadium

[thick holly]

If you do record clips, send them to me, I wanna see how well it can work

[unkempt moss]

Maybe I'll do a write of basic and advanced gootech. Share it in wepsNgadg

[compact tundra]

I'll try to, my problem is I don't run a ton of goo gun

[thick holly]

That could be cool

[compact tundra]

If you can get any pad cancel clips that'd be massively helpful

[thick holly]

Idk if there would be a better name for the tech. But "pad cancel" is accurate

[unkempt moss]

CoasterCancel

[thick holly]

Lol

[unkempt moss]

It's better if you get Goo in there though. Even if it sounds dumb.

GooGrounder

Like youre flights been grounded. Idk I'll work on the name.

[thick holly]

The reason why we thought of "pad cancel" is because you are canceling the jump pad

[unkempt moss]

GooGrounder by UnjustCoaster

[thick holly]

Lol

Pad Disable?? Idk

Names are hard

[unkempt moss]

I have tech for basically every scenario I can think of if you ever want some. Its all kinda muscle memory at this point.

[thick holly]

hope this one helps in your games

It does take a bit of practice but it's pretty consistent once you get it

[unkempt moss]

Trust me. I will throw matches to find applications of it. My w/l means nothing in comparison to my GooJutsu

[thick holly]

Lol

The triangle jump pad is easier than the large circular ones

[unkempt moss]

I'll start there

Basically we're just using our own hitbox and letting the jump get us out of the blob in its set up time so it doesnt break. I see the vision.

[compact tundra]

I see how it is sniffles

[thick holly]

Yeah I think, idk how exactly it works but it works

[unkempt moss]

GooGrounder is what I'll be referring to it as tbh. But if you give it an official name I'll understand.

[thick holly]

I'll see if I can think of a better name

[unkempt moss]

The Unjumps72

[thick holly]

Figuring out a name is weird cuz for people to understand it you gotta have pad and goo, but it just doesnt flow well

[compact tundra]

the FatPad method, idk why but I find the idea of calling a goo'd jump pad fat funny

[unkempt moss]

Nah. Only you need to know. Once it gets popular enough it'll just be called that anyway.

I have a few named that dont make sense to anyone but us.

[thick holly]

Fair

[unkempt moss]

I think it needs to be fun to say more than anything since you have to say it when you do it.

[thick holly]

Lol yeah, back in like season 1 and 2 me and my friends made the joke that jumping around with the riot shield was called "Jellyfishing" for no reason

[unkempt moss]

We call when a light triple panic dashes away "inking"

Its funny to hear the little names everyone has for things.

[thick holly]

Me and my friends have a strat that we call "doordash"

It's a specific way of camping the cashout before the vault is plugged

[unkempt moss]

What is it? Nullifier is insane for intercepting vaults btw

[compact tundra]

I don't think I have any weird phrases for anything in the game, but due to my illiterate dyslexia ass does have weirdly misspelled names for fantasy races that I refuse to fix, and my brother plays a prissy rich "racist" vault dweller in our fallout ttrpg campaign and he has some immaculate slurs he's come up with for ghouls, but thats the closest I got

[thick holly]

Triple medium, all mines, hide the mines in the locations people most likely to run through.

We've gotten a team wipe just from mines before

[serene glade]

I can't think of anything I say off the top of my head, but I know I have tons of stupid shit I say for things

[compact tundra]

This is evil

[thick holly]

Yeah, it's so funny

We call it door dash because usually a light is the one to run it, and the mines EASILY kill a light

The box just gets delivered to us, then we plug it

[unkempt moss]

We'll never get a Spartan Laser.

At this rate they're going to put in the rail cannon instead

I feel like 5 walls insane. Buildings would just be getting torn down constantly

[serene glade]

Embark will make a destruction heavy focused rail gun to take 5 separate reloads to break concrete

[analog pewter]

i wonder what the duos meta would look like. I almost expect double heavy ngl

[analog pewter]

if they did a charged railgun I'd expect it to be like the old charge rifle in apex before they ruined it and made it a projectile. wind-up with a preceding telegraphed beam that does minor damage before the big one

honestly what I'd like to see is something like the nail gun from quake, an automatic projectile weapon like that could be fun

[unkempt moss]

I actually think LH would be meta. Infuser is so strong to keep H alive. Plus the lethality of L would be able to shine more. Defib would be much easier to punish

[compact tundra]

I think MH wouldn't be bad tho, cause heal beam is goated and a solid heal medium is dangerous

[unkempt moss]

Probably depends on the gadgets. If you can sustain well medium would be good. A dive HL would be hard to stop

Basically if you can halt the dive HM probably better. But the HL dive would be tough.

I feel like HH gets mauled trying to get close.

LM doesnt have enough dive or sustain, its kinda half assed in both. LL would probably be more successful than LM.

LLs ability to focus a single target down would make it kind of insane.

The value of nullifier would skyrocket

[compact tundra]

Winch Flamethrower + Mesh Minigun? Could stomp hard

[compact tundra]

It'd have to be banned otherwise L would break the game

[analog pewter]

ohhhhh true

[unkempt moss]

Glitch goes nuclear on a pair of heavies.

[compact tundra]

The minigun is still reved

[unkempt moss]

Glitch, nullify mini, obliterate flame.

[compact tundra]

Nullifier would have to be banned

[unkempt moss]

You could almost win that 1v2 if played right.

[compact tundra]

There is no way for duos to work and nullifier be allowed

[unkempt moss]

Thats why im saying L is essential.

[compact tundra]

So light is mandated cause they have a game breaking gadget? I feel they should just remove nullifier like defibs are removed from TDM

[unkempt moss]

I was just going with game as is. Wasn't heavy mandated in cashout because of Winch? Weve been living that nightmare according to the community.

[compact tundra]

Not really, winch boosted heavy but heavy has always been in the meta, even in triple medium meta HMM was still used often

[unkempt moss]

Technically defib would be very valuable, but it would just be easier to punish. Healing would be even more valuable.

I'm trying to think of what would lose value.

[compact tundra]

Probably gateway a bit, stall like breach and C4 would be way worse

[unkempt moss]

Turret would technically gain value as a third teammate. Turret redemption arc in duos?

[unkempt moss]

Yeah, these are good points.

[compact tundra]

Double barrel would be better

[unkempt moss]

Oh hell yeah. One mag a whole LL team

All the melee would get a nice boost.

[compact tundra]

Yea, and even a HH team is 2 magged

[compact tundra]

Yea, melee would be better, especially dual blades and riot shield

[unkempt moss]

Riot shield would be absolutely busted

[compact tundra]

Spear would be worse and dagger might suffer

[unkempt moss]

Dagger would be even more feast or famine.

Could make it a 2v1 with one touch or be useless.

[compact tundra]

Oh that's a good point

[analog pewter]

nah you make it a 1v1 cause you're still using dagger
1.5v1

[unkempt moss]

easy now, I'm a dagger player lately. I wont have you disparaging my new toy

The Council of Heavies already approved it

[simple snow]

What’s the a good loadout for goo gun sledge/flamthrower?

[unkempt moss]

How good are you with GooGun?

That'll decide if you need lockbolt.

Lock Bolt, some sort of cover, and a destruction tool if flamethrower

If you're good with GooGun, lockbolt and cover gadgets aren't necessary

[analog pewter]

barricade, RPG, pyro mine

dome shield over pyro mine is also fine

[unkempt moss]

dome and barricade

[analog pewter]

absolutely

[unkempt moss]

i didnt know people ran both at the same time

[hardy dust]

Dome, rpg, 3rd is a bit more of a flex slot. I like c4 on flamer for more destruction, barricade is good for sledge, lockbolt can be useful against certain matchups although it can backfire on sledge.

Pyro mine is decent although I don't really like them

Goo nade can be decent although I find it doesn't do as well with googun, but can still be very strong

Anti grav can go crazy

I prefer anti grav with sledge (or any other weapon) compared to flamer since you can make some crazy defensive setups with it

Honestly anti grav googun is best with something ranged

[unkempt moss]

Why do you think its best with something ranged

[hardy dust]

You can destroy goo blobs from range

And you can use off angles created with goo/+antigrav

Ive had the most success with deagles

Good enough range to make use of really funky off angles, good burst damage and can destroy goo blobs decently fast

Ks is also decent since it has the added benefit of destruction, but the limited mag size really hurts

[north quiver]

yo whats the best weapon for light?

[unkempt moss]

Got it. Anti grav is one of my favorite anti defib tools so I was curious.

[unkempt moss]

Someone in here said double barrel is the best light weapon if you're playing solo.

ARN is probably the most versatile.

I wish we could run a poll every couple weeks to vote for best weapons so when people ask they can just check the sticky poll for that patch.

[warm jackal]

(Yes AI is used but it just organized my words so you guys can read easily)

Ploutonion Gate
Setup:

• Shield on doorway inward+ mine + C4 on shield
• Spray on shield to mislead enemies

Gooillotine
Setup:

• Mine + C4 on traffic path
• Goo over explosives
• Motion sensor max distance for info

Green House (probably used often by people already)
Setup:

• Gas mines spread across site
• APS to prevent false triggers
• Glitch to stop light-class dashes

Down to H**l (is probably also used a lot)
Setup:

• Lure enemies from roof window / attic / sunroof
• Dematerialize floor
• Gas mines + glitch below

Guys what do you think about these traps

[hardy dust]

Probably m11, idk how much the recent v9s nerfs affected it but it should still be decent. Arn is also quite good

[gleaming aspen]

realistically your using imo to much resources and time for something you cant gurantee will be helpful

[sullen bear]

Does xp54 have the lowest usage rn among the automatics?

[sullen bear]

I fw the creativity and I find these types of traps are fun even when not necessary useful

[abstract kestrel]

It is outclassed by M11 up close and ARN past 25m It has a very awkward close-mid range sweet spot, and an unremarkable magazine compared to the other choices.

[chilly granite]

Do you have some clips of good nullifier usage? I never know when to click it

[chilly granite]

They said they removed it to fix the bugs, I feel like none of the bugs were game breaking for people being thermaled though? It just.made it shitty for the user so I feel like it was bullying to remove it

[chilly granite]

Absolutely 💯💯💯 take

Communication should be on by default with no moderation but extremely easy and fast UI for muting individual players

If too many people mute them, give them a comms ban scaling in duration

Craziest shit is that blocking someone doesn't hide their name or cosmetics so you can just have racist crap forced on your screen

[chilly granite]

Eh ranked being tournament format makes queues long and rank balance shit, it doesn't work in games with this few players

And having this many game modes also griefs the matchmaking with a player base this small

Ranked should probably be head2head competitive ruleset, cash out should be tourment mode as it is currently probably, and then remove head2head

That way tournament enjoyers have 1 mode so games are just better in cash out, and ranked games get better because all the head2head enjoyers will play with.the sweat Lords who want ruby skins

[chilly granite]

Plus in a duos meta, you want a glitch to ruin enemy heavy day

Lh is 100% it

[chilly granite]

Unremarkable is way too kind

The damage per mag on it is absolutely ass, and because it only has a tiny sweet spot where it's better than m11/v9s and worse than the arn, all of which have either (significantly larger mag/significantly shorter reload) it's terribleee

The v9s and arn have like 2-3x the damage per mag? The m11 is similar damage per mag, but the reload is like 40% shorter

Numbers approx from memory I can check if anyone else gives a shit

[chilly granite]

We don't really have access to stats like that but certainly I see vastly less XPS than the other light weapons in my games

[chilly granite]

They've basically made the v9s entirely worse than the m11 again lmao

They needed to nerf the m11s min falloff a little bit to make more space for close midrange weapons like v9s and xp54 IMHO

The v9s has the advantage of being an m11 with 0 recoil but you have to click your mouse, which is basically where it was before, but the balance outcome of the changes is that the v9s is probably actually worse now than prebuff

Alright you guys ready for a spicy take? Ranked should be 5v5, or if not 5v5, at least 4v4.

It sucks that you only see 1 spec from each class and 1 player from each class per team. Game balance is much more interesting if you can run double heavy or double light. You would see more diversity in gadgets and specs, in part because some specs and gadgets can synergize with their own class

Like, a heavy with mesh and a heavy with mini gun

This would also help with poweshift/point break because the cheese strats that work in the higher player count modes would also apply to ranked so balancing around esports wouldn't result in fucked balance for those modes (or at least it wouldn't be as bad)

[unkempt moss]

If i had to guess from my own games it probably has less than like a 5% pick rate on light. I never see that mf

[serene glade]

V9s should just be reliant on headshots

[unkempt moss]

Nah.

[unkempt moss]

I don't record any of my gameplay. I just know I get a lot of milage out of nullifier on dagger.

[chilly granite]

That's called lh1

I see a lot a sketchy takes from googs but that's gotta be his worst one yet

[chilly granite]

My favourite skin is on xp54 but every time I run it I miss out on so many kills because the combination of mag size/damage is just crap

You lose damage so fast that you stop one clipping heavy at like, 30 meters lol and you lose to m11/v9s and like 12 meters

[serene glade]

Eating trophies is not sketchy, but I think the silenced assassin 9mm pistol should be a headshot reliant thing

[unkempt moss]

Nah

[serene glade]

Nah

[chilly granite]

From a roleplay perspective it makes more sense for the m1 to be a bodyshot chunker and the v9s to be a headshot machine, but from a balance perspective I can't imagine it being a wise choice

[unkempt moss]

Ive given my life to the Pizzeriuh so I can't comment on eating trophies.

[serene glade]

Do you serve pizza?

[unkempt moss]

Nah

[chilly granite]

The v9s is already a monster if you do go for heads anyway

Honestly I think eating trophies is one of your less bad takes

[serene glade]

My takes are pretty based

Full auto projectile AKM and 1 schmeckle of damage for the mgl

[chilly granite]

I should probably try to use nullifier to change a 2v1 into a pair of 1v1s

The bow isn't the best weapon to use with nulli though

[unkempt moss]

I think V9S being headshot reliant is fine. Cut body to 30, give it a 2x crit.

[chilly granite]

1 damage mgl is the worst take imaginable the mgl needs less damage and to be more reliable

[chilly granite]

Actually good take

Nerfing bodyshot damage would also make it a different niche from the lh1

[unkempt moss]

1 damage on MGL makes it three shot mediums I think. So it would feel better in that interaction

[serene glade]

It's pretty reliable tbh except for triangle roofs and moving platforms. I want a better change. But the mgl doing 249 in 3 is extremely anger inducing

[unkempt moss]

Give it one damage and a minimum damage of 25 for hit.

[serene glade]

There's about 20 things they could do that's better than ignoring it

[unkempt moss]

Bomb King rework numnums

[serene glade]

[unkempt moss]

Nice try, dumbass.

[chilly granite]

Mgl should explode on direct hit and not after bounce

Right now it's basically a mine factory that makes the entire map toxic to play for light, you can't even dodge it lol

[unkempt moss]

Heavy should get a rainbow six rappel gadget for descending and climbing buildings.

[unkempt moss]

You want it to be weaker?

[restive plover]

Im gonna try out CL40, gas mines and exploding mines because im an asshole and I dont want other people to have fun fighting me

[chilly granite]

Being able to aim the mgl properly shouldn't result in it being worse @unkempt moss

[serene glade]

Aim it properly?

[chilly granite]

If you direct hit someone that should be rewarded

[serene glade]

But that's not the weapons design

That's actually aiming incorrectly

[unkempt moss]

Then its just a horse ass CL40

[chilly granite]

Covering fire has a place but it should still be better with direct hits

Give it +1 damage on direct hit

[unkempt moss]

Maybe if it direct hits before its bounce it explodes

[chilly granite]

Ye that's what I mean

No bounce direct hit should explode on enemies and do more damage than bounced explosions

I also the the bounced explosions feel overtuned against light, but that's probably lights hp pool being too low because evasive dash is op

For me evasive dash doesn't seem to help against mgl but that might be a skill issue

I mean, I'm playing point break with 5mgl enemy teams so it's probably also a symptom of thst

[serene glade]

Tdm and break point being the reason mgl never gets touched is gonna be insane. The best change for mgl that I have seen is the allowing to cook shots

[restive plover]

Nvm cl40 sucks ass

[serene glade]

Slows the fire rate so you cant just destroy a light for getting in your face for free or react with it, you can still get punished. But also gives you options to combat moving platforms, suspended structures from below, triangle buildings, the horrible mountain terrain on Monaco, etc. also keeps the mgl as the mgl with the bounce mechanic. I don't like the direct hit idea, but I also hate lights dashing through a grenade and taking 1 damage. So I'd take a flat damage minimum, and also potentially a bigger vertical hitbox the explosion

[serene glade]

It's reliant on direct hits and just doesn't feel like a grenade launcher. The gas mine is nice for throwing and shutting off a doorway or something from getting pushed through. But cl40 is just kinda meh feeling

[chilly granite]

To be fair I think they should be focusing on balancing for casual modes to increase player base before worrying about heavy sweats like you

Mgl is currently griefing entire lobbies of point break

Tbh I find the lack of a tf2 style grenade launcher disturbing

Direct hit or roll and explode is good balance

[restive plover]

Got 1 kill a game, nice

[chilly granite]

Cl40 sucks but is also unfun to play against

Demoman stock grenade launcher feels so much more fun to play against

[indigo nexus]

I don’t really get that, you’d expect more counterable weapons to be more fun to play against

With the least fun to play against weapons being stuff like the ARN

[chilly granite]

The arn is my most hated gun so yes?

[indigo nexus]

Fair enough

[chilly granite]

But idk why you're saying cl40/mgl is more counterable than stock grenade launcher tf2

[restive plover]

My most hated gun is whatever killed me

[chilly granite]

If that is what you meant

[indigo nexus]

I didn’t mention that

[chilly granite]

What did you mean by more counterable weapon then? I'm confused

Like as a light I don't feel like I have any counter to mgl spam in point break at all

I can hope my team picks an aps, I can kill a couple heavies but they'll probably find cover before I wipe them and if we try to go point they'll go back to spamming again

This is probably somewhat a skill issue? But I'd love suggestions, please make my games less painful

[indigo nexus]

The CL-40

Where you are advantaged by staying at range or on high ground or at point blank

[chilly granite]

It feels unrewarding to counter it though

The problem with the cl40 is that you don't feel like you outskiled them to kill them with advantage and you don't feel like they outskiled you when you die to it either

[indigo nexus]

Why?

[chilly granite]

It's a weapon that feels bad for everyone involved

It doesn't feel like bullying to you when you shoot a cl40 player from high ground?

Abd you watch them fumble in futility?

[indigo nexus]

Why’d that be different to any other counterplay in the game?

In any scenario your goal is to make your enemy as helpless as possible

[chilly granite]

Because the cl40 is so crippling in weak position

And in a strong position I think it's also too forgiving to bad aim which makes it feel bad when I die to it lol

Like I played it and just on reasonable positioning I did really well, even aiming it terribly

Like, I'm unforgivably bad at demoman in TF2 but I did totally fine on the cl40 because it's a rocket launcher not a grenade launcher, by the classic quake/TF2 weapon design formula

[indigo nexus]

I suppose I just do not relate to that

[chilly granite]

And sometimes there isn't a good way to gain positional advantage, which also feels really bad

[indigo nexus]

I don’t think that’s often really true

[chilly granite]

Im talking a tdm/point break context, not cash out

[indigo nexus]

Usually a team always has enough collective flexibility in their loadout to construct a good strategy against any enemy tactic

[chilly granite]

In cash out that is probably not true, but tdm/point break where team coordination is often uh

Nonexistent?

[indigo nexus]

Hmm. I guess those fights are less predictable

[chilly granite]

And yes, fights more chaotic and unpredictable really doesn't help

Like jumppad to a good position but then an enemy sledgehammer happened to break the building you just jump pad to, you now have the worst possible position and no jump pad

That feels so awful with cl40, but fine with any other medium weapons

[indigo nexus]

(unrelated note, I wonder if point break was the reason PS4 support was discontinued)

[chilly granite]

Probably ooms the PS4 with 16 players lol

[indigo nexus]

From my perspective it looks as though you don’t enjoy what from my perspective is the main component of tactics in this game

[chilly granite]

1. idk what you mean by that

2. I'm for sure bad at medium

3. grapple hook baby

[indigo nexus]

Manipulating the scenario such that your enemy has as little ability to fight back as possible, that’s kind of what combat tactics amount to in this game, but also sounds like what you’re saying you don’t enjoy

[chilly granite]

Oh, I love that, but I like that when it feels like it was skilfull, not accidental,

[indigo nexus]

So now I wonder how that relates to the weapon’s nature

[chilly granite]

Like I thermal bored a roof above a vault and then dropped in to steal because nobody was there, then my teammate died to a pro player and I tried to peek him but he jumped on the roof and used my own thermal bore hole to kill me

The cl40 generally isn't played by people who are good, so they tend to not realize they're weak and will just intentionally face you with massive disadvantage

[indigo nexus]

So you don’t like it when they make mistakes?

[chilly granite]

I feel bad when I bully people who are clearly inexperienced

[indigo nexus]

And a more contextual weapon is more likely to show this

[chilly granite]

Yes

And it's also really forgiving to aim, so it's also noobbait

[indigo nexus]

In my mind this would be cancelled out by the other end of the spectrum, since SBMM is a thing you won’t consistently be matched with much worse players often

[chilly granite]

Is sbmm real in causal modes?

[indigo nexus]

Yes

[chilly granite]

Why do I have fkn pros in half my point break lobbies

[indigo nexus]

Though the range in which it is effective depends on the mode, region and time of day

[indigo nexus]

That I cannot answer, but I do not have the same experience

[chilly granite]

Half is over stating it but I usually see a pro a day

Am I actually good?

I'm only silver in ranked but I'm 45th on tdm leaderboard and 1100 point break leaderboard hahha

I hope they don't do it based on leaderboard because tdm is literally just like how much you play it's not skill

[indigo nexus]

I don’t think it’s leaderboard based, but who knows

If I were them, it’d just be the ranked system.

[chilly granite]

But yeah, I very regularly have extremely new players and extremely skilled players in my lobbies, I don't believe sbmm is real

[indigo nexus]

Well if you don’t play ranked much it wouldn’t really say anything

[chilly granite]

Like, I had rubies in one lobby and the next lobby was all new players

[chilly granite]

I've been trying to learn ranked this season but it's going badly lol

[indigo nexus]

How much have you played in teams with greatly different skill levels of players? To me the difference has seemed plain to see.

[muted condor]

Games with 10k players tend to not have very strict matchmaking

[indigo nexus]

I have played in premade squads with people much better and much worse than me, and the enemy’s competency usually seems to follow suit

But the matchmaking isn’t too powerful, so not easy to notice without a good comparison

[chilly granite]

Is that in world tour or tdm/point break?

Cuz I know there's sbmm for world tour

[indigo nexus]

I think it’s weakest in TDM as it’s mostly filled with players of a certain calibre

On quick cash / power shift it’s quite noticeable. Not sure about point break as I don’t have much info to work with

[chilly granite]

But tdm lobbies are insane, half my games are diamond/ruby other half are brand new players, and sometimes its both in the same lobby

Certain caliber I feel attacked and I don't even know what yorue implying hahaha

[indigo nexus]

Well, I don’t play the mode much and haven’t touched it in a while, but when I did it was almost invariably mediocre players

[chilly granite]

Oh yeah the average level of players in tdm is the lowest

Not level, skill level

It's the least sweaty mode is probably why, so casual players like it

There's a lot of strategies which are novel to new players, but also feel incredibly anti fun because it's not obvious how to counter them, and tdm avoids that because people don't work together and there's no objective

So probably it's just that there aren't enough skilled players in tdm to find appropriate lobbies for ruby/diamond players, so they get thrown in with the plebs

One of my teammates who I'm often playing with is super high skilled so it might be his fault we run into pros on point break

He can go toe to toe with the pros on aim but he's not a cash out player so his strategic mindset is uhh

Questionable hahahah

Although the last pro we played against rekt him too

That guy was the best pro we've played against so far lol, he was the guy who abused my thermal bore hole

We played a tdm the other day and my friend was like, our teammate was really good and I liked their outfit, I'm gonna add them, and it was r1pka in streamer mode lol

They didn't add back 😢 rip my friend

[indigo nexus]

TDM is the most aim-centric mode I suppose

Not great for me, I’m on the lower end of aim

[chilly granite]

My hottest take is that in casual modes, parties should get team balanced though

Two rubies queueing point break together is gonna grief every lobby

[chilly granite]

Basically all my buddies have nuts aim and trash game sense hahaha

Then they're like "oh I aimed so bad" because they peeked into 5 people and dird

[indigo nexus]

Hmm. Sure, why not, in some modes. Four players with a couple of rubies vs 6 much worse players in power shift could be fair

Player count on a team does make a HUGE difference, though, so it doesn’t work too well for 3 player teams

[chilly granite]

Poweshift cash out quick cash should be exceptions

[indigo nexus]

two rubies can struggle against 3 half decent players, let alone 4

[chilly granite]

But tdm and point break I think it's fine to break up parties to balance teams, and it prevents less organized parties being abused by coordinated mgl 5 stacks in point break

Tdm absolutely 100% should break up parties to balance teams, a 3 stack of rubies will feel like a wall

It sucks as their teammate too because evryonee already dead by the time you get there kmao

I can do decent vs diamonds but I struggle against rubies, the best players in my friend group - 1 rage quits if he sees a ruby and the other can carry us anyway half the time lol

But I'm seeing players with lvl 14 profiles against these diamonds and there going 0-12 in a 15min tdm

That is an exact example from my tdm yesterday evening

Tbh I think tdm should auto team balance on rounds classic style, people's performance is highly variable for a lot of people, and if the good player on your team ain't hitting then it sucks because it's just 4v5

I don't care about winning or losing but when the skill differences are too big then people start to leave, go afk, and it's no longer a 5v5 but 4v5 or even worse

Also tdm Meta is weird too, like 95% of my friends have pyro nade as one of their favourite, if not their most favourite, gadget hahah

[indigo nexus]

That is very weird

[chilly granite]

so there's a few things going into it

it's probaly the best kill secure gadget in the game, being an impact grenade that spreads behind cover and has damage ticks

the small maps in tdm means that most maps have a bottleneck that can be completely coverd by toxic gas, and pyro can clear it

and if you're new to the game you don't have to learn the bounce physics like for the frag grenade; it's point and click

like I try to convince some of my friends to use different grenades and it's always "but how will i clear toxic gas1!?!?!?!?"

hehehehe

[indigo nexus]

Caring much about clearing gas in TDM is downright weird to me

[chilly granite]

chip damage is how you lose tdm

[sonic zephyr]

mf's talking about meta in TDM OUT OF ALL THINGS

[versed lava]

lets talk about meta in snowball blitz

i think snowballs are meta

[young pewter]

no it has to be thermal bore

[unkempt moss]

He's #45, bud. Show some respect.

[indigo nexus]

(that was disrespectful?)

[unkempt moss]

(irony)

[shell hornet]

icl arn kinda sucks unless u got a good team

[compact tundra]

It's really versatile and works well at almost all ranges and has great sustain, but it does trade it's ability to shred like the lights smgs for this, so you are a little less self reliant with it, but it still works well solo

[compact tundra]

They weren't, they only disadvantaged the person using thermal vision, it really feels like they just hate smoke and thermal and chose thermal as the problematic part of that combo

[whole ferry]

What is considered meta loadouts for heavy?

[compact tundra]

Bruh, why ask for meta when you could just try whatever is fun, heavies meta isn't exactly beginner friendly

[chilly granite]

just hit headshots, its' easier than any other lights smg to hit 100% headshots with and if you do the ttk is better than the other smgs too

[whole ferry]

Like I'm a flamethrower main. I use winch, dome, healing emitter and RPG. I do fine but obviously it's gonna be a struggle against anyone who knows how to keep distance

[compact tundra]

Ok as a flamethrower main it is a good weapon you just gotta learn it's strengths and weaknesses, flamethrower is a very brawl heavy weapon so learning how to avoid sight lines and push advantages even when you're losing is crucial

[whole ferry]

Good points. Yea a lot of it is trying to close distance without getting shot to bits, like you said.

[fringe charm]

Nah turret or shield

[compact tundra]

This is typically how I play flamethrower, very brawl heavy and I don't push areas where people are watching without being ready to dip or dome. You're also very reliant on your spec and gadgets so learning to use those effectively with flamethrower is really important

[whole ferry]

Yea I feel like I'm fairly good with the winch claw. But looking at that first video I wonder if I've been sleeping on the mesh shield. Do you have a preference between the two?

[compact tundra]

From my experience flame pairs well with all of the specs

Winch allows you to rip people into range, stop steals, and reposition the cashbox somewhere more advantageous for you. Really good for extending your effective range

Mesh lets you juggle between burning people and shielding, so you can cook them, and then shield while the after burn damages them, really good for being even stronger in your effective range

Goo gun lets you stun people and cook them while they're goo'd. It's really good at stopping them from shooting you while you close the distance and for stun locking and cooking then but is usually worse than the other options when fighting multiple opponents

Charge and Slam is good for closing the distance and having even more damage and a good finisher tool in your effective range. Struggles in 1v1's tho since they can shoot you while your charging them, it's best for jumping distracted teams

[unkempt moss]

GooFlame

[whole ferry]

I expect nothing less from the GooKing

[compact tundra]

To be fair GooFlame is really good, it's a 1v1 monster that's basically unkillable without backup

[unkempt moss]

GooFlame allows you to control space really well on top of being able to Guel with the thrower.

I actually think Goo is flames strongest spec, it just isnt the most immediately accessible

[compact tundra]

Eh I think all the specs are about equal with flamethrower, maybe C&S is the weakest but not by much, winch and mesh are really good with it tho to a point where they compete really well with goo flame, cause goo flame has the weakness of multiple enemies

[stoic garden]

winch is weaker vs groups ngl

[unkempt moss]

I think the googuns versatility shines more when things are equal like you're saying. Mainly becaude the skill ceiling is so much higher.

That plus opening slots up for gadgets

[shell hornet]

i think googun shoots goo

[indigo nexus]

winch breaks up groups, that's kind of its thing

[whole ferry]

Just tried it with mesh shield and I think I may end up liking it more than the winch

[compact tundra]

If you know how to or Learn to slide hop then mesh gets way better

[unkempt moss]

GooGun breaks spirits...

[compact tundra]

Eh it secures at least 1 kill and can rip groups apart and separate them, it works better vs groups than goo gun from my experience

[unkempt moss]

lol yeah right. You need to practice your simultaneous goolocks bud

[whole ferry]

Looks like that's what I have to learn next!

[compact tundra]

When you see me jump and slide with my shield up that's slide hopping

[stoic garden]

the amount of times I've bought enough time against enemies who wanted to qm me to death for my teammates to kill thanks to this is insane

[compact tundra]

Slide hopping genuinely bumps mesh up a tier in usefulness

[compact tundra]

I don't have the best aim so they're hard for me, and also I find that trying to goo lock multiple people makes flaming them much harder

[shell sonnet]

why do people see the objective being capped and decide theyre gonna hang back
just look at it and see if they can get a peek
or just stand around

im probably malding a bit rn
but ive genuinly seen half my team stand behind cover, not even shooting, while a single enemy captures the vault just now

like, with 0 cover, thats as easy of a defense as youre likely gonna get, if they dont steal
if they get it at all, its gone, no way to retake
i dont get it

[unkempt moss]

C.S.G.L isn't really on offensive tool unless you have your team with you. I use it mainly as an escape tool. But it can be.

The benefit of it is having both options and it inhibits their offense. Where as winching a group leaves you super open to the other teammates

[compact tundra]

That's fair, I think goo has by far the most Versatility outta the bunch but since I'm such an aggressive brawl centered flamethrower I rarely try to retreat from fights, I just try to go down doing as much damage as I can, tho that's kinda a mindset and skill issue on my part

[unkempt moss]

I think it's a fine mindset if you FIFO at the right time.

Honestly that's kinda how you play a lot of heavy weapons.

[compact tundra]

I think it's like a brain lag problem, I have a friend that does that often and it seems like the chaos of being low health and safe but also needing to be less safe to stop the steal just makes them freeze

[compact tundra]

What does FIFO mean? First in first out?

[unkempt moss]

Yeah

[compact tundra]

And I presumed C.S.G.L is Continuous Simultaneous Goo Locking

[unkempt moss]

Yessir

[compact tundra]

Big, I feel smart now

[unkempt moss]

It's a one punch man reference so that may have helped if you watch that.

[compact tundra]

That's usually how I play heavy, move in, burn shit, retreat to an advantageous spot with dome or lock bolt or something, and then finish them off

[compact tundra]

I have watched the first season but I did not clock that at all

[unkempt moss]

I think a lot of flamethrower is playing off of your team. If you have hitters on your team FIFO is optimal. But if your team is kinda buns you need to play your life.

Here's a question. Is third partying a problem?

[shell sonnet]

fair enough

[unkempt moss]

If so, how do you fix it?

[compact tundra]

It can be but if I'm in casual then I'm just brawling for fun and really objective be damned if I come out on top of a 4 person fight with 2 other teams involved then I had a good time. In ranked I play a lot more with my team and typically only take fights when I know only one team is nearby and my teams can get me up quickly in case if a 3rd party

[compact tundra]

Fix brain lag or fix 3rd parties?

[lime nexus]

Does anyone know a really good hacker loadout

[compact tundra]

Like hacker themed? And what class cause if so then medium is by far the best

[lime nexus]

Medium jacket play style

*Hacker

[unkempt moss]

Demat, Glitch Trap, Proxy, Reshaper.

P90 I guess

[compact tundra]

No idea what that means but I'm running with a hacker themed medium.

• Dematerializer
• any weapon really
• Data reshaper
• Defib's
• glitch trap or proxy sensors

[unkempt moss]

I didnt include defib because its not very hackerish

[compact tundra]

Idk I feel it is, like you literally hacking the game to bring someone back

Tho yours work as well

[serene glade]

Based response tbh

[unkempt moss]

Oh so you agree defib is cheating!

[serene glade]

It does have the hacker effect on revive so it does fit the larp

[compact tundra]

I think it's funny in the hacker context, but honestly I think they're pretty balanced at the moment. Maybe make being defibbed cause your own defib's charge to start at half or something to stop trains, but that's really it

[unkempt moss]

Its a sickness, not glitch.

[compact tundra]

Thats what I was thinking

[unkempt moss]

Do not join forces

[compact tundra]

ITS A VIRUS, IT ALL FITS THE LARP

[unkempt moss]

Nope it's bacterial not viral

Nice try

[compact tundra]

The finals is a virtual world, there is no bacteria

[serene glade]

Final round is where I feel the sillyness of defib, especially when my team doesn't have one and the enemy has 2. Throughout normal cashout rounds its still annoying but feels more manageable to me.

[unkempt moss]

Its digital bacteria, similar to light players

[compact tundra]

Damn, got me there

[serene glade]

Lights don't wash their hands?

[compact tundra]

I think the train nerf would help that but not entirely

[compact tundra]

You can wash those?!?

[unkempt moss]

No

[compact tundra]

God next thing you're gonna tell me there's something I could rub on my pits to magically make them not stinky

[sudden pewter]

They don’t wipe either. They let it crust then pick it off like a scab

[serene glade]

Let it crust might be unexplored tech

Someone get some new goo tech going so we can call it the let it crust tech

[sudden pewter]

Shitsmear Method

[compact tundra]

I mean we have new tech but I don't think I want that name

[unkempt moss]

You do technically let it crust before hitting the jump pad

Sausage! Do NOT let this guy beat you in feedback!

You're the sheriff, not him

[indigo nexus]

not intending on it, but I need to wait several hours

which will have to be tomorrow morning

I think they view the primary purpose of ranked matchmaking as a reward system rather than a match-fairness system, which is the main problem I have with their logic, but they're also accusing me of pretending that matchmaking could not be improved. I think it can be, just there are not obvious / uncontroversial solutions which explains the lack of major change to it.

annoyingly I think they'll misread my intent to some extent but I don't have space in a message to explain it

[lucid cave]

Oh my god. Why’d you have to put that idea into my head??

[sudden pewter]

There’s no silver bullet for matchmaking

[unkempt moss]

@ that mf in here

Home turf, baby bear.

[indigo nexus]

Would rather keep it in one place so it could be read by someone contiguously

[unkempt moss]

Sausage this is one of those times to let your spirit burn

[modest lynx]

Yo is melee aim assist useful?

[sudden pewter]

Definitely sometimes, definitely not in others. Ultimately I’d say it’s user preference, but I personally turn it off

[unkempt moss]

Once we get the throw on spear it'll be useful

[hardy dust]

Not really. It screws you up more than it does good, especially for certain weapons like riot

[indigo nexus]

If you actually miss a lot of hits on like, spear/sledge/dual-blades, then you might want it

[shell hornet]

if you cant hit ur shots with a melee weapon you need more than aim assist

[analog pewter]

defib is overhated imho

[shell hornet]

defib is underhated

[analog pewter]

na

[shell hornet]

its definitely very good but its nowhere near as good as people say

i think taking other gadgets can give alot more value in most conps

[analog pewter]

i do unironically think that defib isn't necessary outside of like hiiiiigh ranks

[hardy dust]

https://tenor.com/view/umamusume-uma-uma-musume-seiun-sky-seiun-gif-5489906929905676202

[shell hornet]

i only use it when im up against alot of lights that wont let me revive in peace

[analog pewter]

i watch sanguine cook w/mines, jump pad, and zipline all the damn time

[hardy dust]

Nothing is necessary outside of high ranks ngl

[shell hornet]

yea defib defo shouldnt be in every loudout

[shell hornet]

fr outside of high ranks you just need a gun and eyeballs

[analog pewter]

people over-use defib really, most defibs are used when you could get a normal rez off just fine

[shell hornet]

yea thats why its not the best

[analog pewter]

defib is just a comfort toy for people who are skittish

[shell hornet]

it takes the same amount of time and you get revived at a disadvantage

the only time you should use is if you have a heavy on your team

and have one teammate still alive

[hardy dust]

I wouldn't say the use cases are that limited but it's definitely not as oppressive as people make it out to be

[shell hornet]

thats like a basic use case and can be used more or less depending on the situation

it definitely requires a high amount of skill to use efficiently

[hardy dust]

At a high level. In low ranks you can literally defib infront of an enemy and they'll manage to not punish it 😭

[shell hornet]

in bronze and low silver sure

icl m11 and v9s need to be remastered because right now they make light as easy as point, shoot, run away.

they just do too much damage too quickly with minimal effort and in my opinion v9 need less body damage and m11 needs lower mag capacity

[unkempt moss]

Which gadgets?

[shell hornet]

jump pad, pyro grenade, zip line, mines, frag grenade, goo

they are all alot more versatile than defib

[serene glade]

i dont think any of those gadgets bring more value than an extra life

but im a stupid goy so i get it

[unkempt moss]

You must not run pyro then

I think pyro is the best gadget in the game because of its versatility

[hardy dust]

Tbf defib is efficient, not versatile

A lot of really strong gadgets aren't super versatile but super efficient

Defib, h+, glitch, dome are all not that versatile but extremely efficient

[unkempt moss]

I think defib is underpowered now

[unkempt moss]

Ive seen some very convincing arguments here

[analog pewter]

dome is, its an extra 250 hp at a moments notice lol

[chilly granite]

I mean, that's not very versitle, it does one thing that tends to be crazy fucking op

[analog pewter]

okay but it's useful in literally every situation ever, that's the most versatility you could ask for

[chilly granite]

it's only suseful if anyone is trying to shoot you

[analog pewter]

this is a shooter game. having more health at a moments notice is the single most versatile ability

[chilly granite]

now that happens to be 99% of the time, but that doesn't change anything hahaha'

[analog pewter]

in nearly every situation you find yourself in someone is trying to shoot you, like how is that not versatile lol

[chilly granite]

pyro is useful 100% of the time

everyone dead but there's gas? dome is useless, pyro not

I mean, I think you need to look at what versatile means in a dictionary

dome shield is definitionally not versatile

it does one thing that is permanantly useful but being permanently useful doesn't mean versatile

[analog pewter]

pyro is useless if there's smoke, or you're fighting in a wide open space, or they can move the cashout out of the flames
pyro has a lot of situations where it provides very little value

"dome shield is definitionally not versatile"
if the purpose of dome shield (to provide an additional 250 HP buffer) is useful in nearly every single context, then that means BY DEFINITION THAT DOME SHIELD IS EXTREMELY VERSATILE

[chilly granite]

Capable of doing many things competently. Having varied uses or serving many functions. Variable or inconstant; changeable.

[analog pewter]

you are being pedantic and you're not even correct. like what do you gain from being this confidently wrong lol

[chilly granite]

I checked I was correct before I argued, read a dictonary

[grand turtle]

Pyro and gas are good?
The damage they do is laughable, especially gas since fire kills it and it has a moment of no damage dealt at all.
So much for "area denial".

Fire feels useful since in those rare cases it can burn gas and goo.

[analog pewter]

if dome shield is useful in nearly every situation in as diverse and chaotic a game as the finals, then it is by definition serving many functions. you are baffling to me bro

[chilly granite]

it serves the same purpose/function, in all of those situations

the only purpose it serves is: HP buffer against bullets and to reject some enemy projectiles

that's not versatility, that's just being useful

it can be universally useful without being versatile

[analog pewter]

there are many different situations in which you would want to protect yourself from damage for different reasons. Not dying is the throughline, but there is a difference between e.g. stealing a cashout or challenging a ranged fight or simply discouraging a push by threatening the space it provides. that's versatility.

[chilly granite]

versatility refers to something being able to change shape, to do different jobs, to fit different roles

[analog pewter]

pyro does exactly two things: deny space by creating an AoE damage radius, and clearing gas, while also accomplishing the former. that sounds pretty un-versatile to me

[chilly granite]

pyro

[analog pewter]

all it does is create a fire AoE! no versatility there. that's barely two jobs! and they heavily overlap!

[chilly granite]

Ehh, my main contentino is that dome isn't versatile, not that pyro is

I thikn goo is overrating pyro a lot

[analog pewter]

the dome shield can be thrown which means it can be used selfishly or selflessly. it can protect allies or teammates. it can shut down a sightline by occupying it. it can protect the user or an ally while stealing a cashout. it can be used in a panic to avoid death. these are all different jobs. by your definition - BY YOUR DEFINITION, YOU MUST ADMIT - it accomplishes MANY jobs

you're such a miserable fucking pedant and you're wrong at the same time, like what are you accomplishing bro

[chilly granite]

now that's an actually good argument

[analog pewter]

one you actively refused to imagine

[chilly granite]

didn't think about closing sightlines on it, I'm not heavy player

[analog pewter]

see I don't believe the things I said about pyro because I do believe it's versatile. but applying your own logic to the same extreme, you can boil the pyro down to having a very narrow set of roles

[chilly granite]

that's actual versatility

I mean, I don't think pyro is very versatile either, gateway is a lot more verstaile

gateway u can use to trap enemies, you can use to move teammetes, you can use as a nuke, you can use to move objectives

[analog pewter]

i use it all the time with sledge to avoid having to take a ranged engagement, cause if i place it right then they have to push through my bubble towards me. highy value for shutting down range

[chilly granite]

that's vastly more verstaile than either dome or pyro

there is a better word for something that's useful in many situations regardless of it's dynamism, but i can't remebre what it is lol

I've been tryna think of it this whole time cuz I@m not just trying tobe a pedantic asshole lol

I need to sleep actually it's way too late

[analog pewter]

also there are other valid definitions of versatile that lack the same specificity of the ones you gave.

[analog pewter]

bro idk u kinda were ....
srry for getting heated i gotta work on my tolerance

[chilly granite]

oh shit

i think this is american vs british english

[dapper umbra]

hahaha, this semantics. But are we really saying pyro nade > defib?????

[boreal axle]

I heard enough, nerf Pyro Grenade

[dapper umbra]

this has got to be rage bait

[chilly granite]

I'm pretty sure this is a difference in definition in english vs american english lmfao

anyway i gotta sleep it's like 3am and i'm giga tired

pyro sucks don't believ the gaslighting from gooking

maybe its op with goo gun but for normal humans it's not

[unkempt moss]

Pyro is op, defib is up

[analog pewter]

Pyro is uh OK but I like frag more

[unkempt moss]

Defib loses to everything. Its actively throwing if you use it.

[dapper umbra]

isn’t frag kind of poopoo now because it’s only one charge and highlighted?

[unkempt moss]

Thats why pyro is busted

[analog pewter]

Use it with demat trust

[dapper umbra]

isn’t it meta though because it means you have like 3,5 players in a teamfight? not instaloss if one player fumbles and dies at range in the beginning of a fight?

[dapper umbra]

how do you know where to drop it? Combo with mines?

[unkempt moss]

No. I learned recently it sucks until ruby

[analog pewter]

Audio and faith

If you see a dome a floor above you you could drop it into a frag and the frag clips through. That's always fun when it works

[dapper umbra]

btw did you post some fire drip in the drip check? I think I saw some and was impressed

[analog pewter]

I post there semi often

[dapper umbra]

defib sucks until high level competetive?

[analog pewter]

You can search my name in the channel if you want

[dapper umbra]

yes, it was you🔥🔥🔥