💣┇weapons-gadgets

[surreal tide]

never thought of it like that

[hardy dust]

Eh, v9s is more or less fine as is rn. If other light weapons got buffs I think a slight nerf (maybe something like 2.5m less max falloff) would be fine

https://tenor.com/view/umamusume-uma-uma-musume-seiun-sky-seiun-gif-5489906929905676202

[serene glade]

Id call it another nothing burger from embark and watching them scramble to keep changing the v9s reminds me of them doing the same thing with the XP 2 seasons ago. Randomly buff a light weapon beyond belief and nothing but minor insignificant changes for the rest of the game, then slowly tune back said light weapon because they are just lost rn

[hardy dust]

When is it not a nothing burger

[slow linden]

It needs a lot more falloff in my opinion,there's no point in the lh1 existing when a pistol can poke and brawl better than it

[hardy dust]

Lh1 can definitely poke better its just the visual recoil is so crazy

[mental urchin]

LH1 breaks your nose

[slow linden]

It can poke about equally it cannot brawl as good tho

[hardy dust]

Brawl is def way stronger on v9s

[slow linden]

Hense v9s is just better

It does what lh1 does and more

[serene glade]

Take me back to random massive changes every week or 2 when they threw up ideas on a dartboard

[hardy dust]

I just don't want embark to nerf v9s to the point it was worse than prebuff, since they do that a lot

[serene glade]

They'll nerf it to pre buff and then introduce a new gun probably that just does the same thing but better to get people to buy skins. And then continue the cycle

[hardy dust]

They're gonna nerf it and not touch it for 5 seasons and also not introduce a new weapon

[serene glade]

Based, don't these changes just get you excited for the next Esports major guys

[slow linden]

I want them to balance it,not gut it,the only things I want drastically reworked because of how annoying they are is dash,one charge,2 second cooldown,no reloading while dashing

[hardy dust]

I love waiting a whole season of no balance changes just to get no real balance changes

[slow linden]

Cloak I want to be actually usable,and grapple needs a buff but I don't know what they could do to it

Also once again remove winch and buff the heavy weapons it was actively keeping from being buffed or has caused nerfs for

[serene glade]

If anything they'll give dash a 4th charge and faster cool down so you'll always have 1 available, and then Lewis gun and shak will both receive 2 damage nerf. And the akm will receive a .1 second increase to it's ADS speed

[slow linden]

Winch claw is a parasite that hurts the proper balance and gameplay of heavy more than it has hurt any other class

[slow linden]

I will nuke embark

Winch claw is the chains of heavys enslavement,release heavy from the malicous tumor that is Winch claw

[serene glade]

It's funny, I feel like they look at the v9s changes as a risk and it always fails because they just go way too far. But it wouldn't be as bad if they just took risks with more than 1 weapon a season

[faint steppe]

That bow buff was genuinely unnecessary. Nerfing/buffing around pick rates will pretty much always be stupid imo.

[grand turtle]

It sure is. Famas feels disgusting to play with now for me.
RIP

[near scroll]

real

[near scroll]

if the only metric is pick rate then ig yea but its a good thing to take into account imo, if something'd overpicked any change you make to it will impact the game significantly more than a change to an underpicked weapon

and even then, its a game, im here for fun, and metas that don't allow for variety and has 90% of players on 3 weapons that's not fun

or rather, variety is one of the reasons many of us play the finals i think

[indigo nexus]

They did reference several other metrics, I don’t think it’s sensible to claim that they do this given the existence of several weapons which have been unpopular for a long time

[azure shuttle]

any talk on when thermal vision will be back?

[indigo nexus]

No

[faint steppe]

The only referenced usage and "various other metrics" (whatever that's supposed to mean). I just don't think the minimum draw time increase was necessary and I can already foresee a lot of complaints about bow being too strong. Because honestly it was already quite strong just hard to be consistent with

[faint steppe]

The problem is it gives us pointless nerfs like the AK mag nerf

[indigo nexus]

Wasn’t popular or effective in casual or competitive. I can hardly see it being a problem.

[faint steppe]

It was effective just inconsistent for most players. But we'll see

[indigo nexus]

Definitely not at risk of becoming meta

[indigo nexus]

They made it no more consistent. Just a bit more powerful

[hardy dust]

Bow and good in the same sentence 💔

[faint steppe]

Which makes it worse imo. It will perform better for those that were already performing well with it while hardly increasing it's pick rate for those that didn't perform with it in the first place

[hardy dust]

I doubt it'll ever become anything more than a niche pick

[near scroll]

by that logic spear is extremely effective cause it could 1v3 with one spin but its the fact that it's an inconsistent occurence that makes it weak

effectiveness includes reliability imo

[indigo nexus]

This change should not add any skew to its effectiveness-vs-skill distribution. I view it as a pure positive as a result as I viewed the weapon in want of a small buff

[faint steppe]

I really don't agree with the comparison. Bow will always be more reliable than spear simply because it's a ranged weapon. Its inconsistencies exist because its a projectile based weapon rather than hitscan.

[faint steppe]

I could be wrong but we'll see. I don't think it's a huge problem anyways but it simply feels like an unnecessary buff

[indigo nexus]

I am fairly confident we don't have a way to work out which one would be more 'reliable' due to that the things that flatten the curve of the distribution of their outcomes are different

[near scroll]

my point is inconsistency hurts effectiveness so saying its effective yet inconsistent is weird to me

[indigo nexus]

Kind of, but the latter phrase shouldn't be inherently weird to you. You could have the most inconsistent gun in the game but give it stat buffs until it was OP without affecting consistency.

[near scroll]

i'd argue smth like m11 or w.e would be more effective/valuable than a 150dmg bfr with hella random bloom even while ads'd

[indigo nexus]

then buff the BFR more, eventually it will be OP.

[near scroll]

what else can you give it except higher dmg per shot that doesnt affect consistency?

if you give it fire rate/reload/ammo you're affecting consistency cause you can "spin the wheel" of the instakill bullets' bloom rng more, so weapon becomes more consistent

[copper hazel]

well at least we got bow buff today and slight repeater nerf

[near scroll]

peter "nerfed", millions must "rejoice"

[faint steppe]

That's true but I'd argue that a skilled player can overcome these inconsistencies to some degree.

Bow will inherently be inconsistent because it's a projectile but that doesn't mean that it can't be effective. Buffing its strengths for those players can make it very oppressive. That's all I'm saying and I could be wrong but I still think that Embark puts too much emphasis on changing around pick rates.

[indigo nexus]

the problem here is that consistency would have to be considered as a system of equations no matter what, so a change that objectively makes a weapon better than other weapons would improve it on that front (including changing the damage) if we did not use the hypothetical assumption that the rest of the game had been similarly rebalanced for computing consistency, but then we were comparing it to the original state of the balance anyway.

So I guess I think about doing that implicitly, but you'd be right to point out that it starts to get meaningless as you approach the logical end of that assumption as the meaning of consistency has been made something irrational

With such an assumption you can think "it's firing more bullets with a higher RPM yes, but we can attribute that to it becoming more powerful as the consistency is still the same relative to the damage output".

Anyway, I don't think that actually matters for the point itself. You could have a viable yet more inconsistent gun, just get two guns that have the same general specialisation and profiles but tweak one of them to be higher damage / low firerate and scale everything else to match their overall viabilities

[near scroll]

as i said earlier if pick rate is one of multiple metrics used i think its fine but i agree if the only reason behind a change is pick rate its kinda weird.

also bow is only inconsistent at longer ranges so it makes this discussion even harder, up to like 15m its essentially hitscan

[copper hazel]

Repeater is still staying in meta cuz nerf did basically nothing 🔥
But still better than nothing i guess

Whatever makes my enemy worse is always a victory

[near scroll]

i suppose you're right. but i think in high skill environments the consistent options are generally valued more, even if the riskier option is equally effective, so thats something to take into account too

[near scroll]

whatever makes meta slaves more miserable is a win

[copper hazel]

Truth and real

[indigo nexus]

In general there is a correlation there yes. But then you have weapons like the BFR being considered more valuable than the ARN still.

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-carl-weathers-gif-5129663

[near scroll]

i think we disagree on the fact that inconsistent =/= punishing

[copper hazel]

I mean to be fair BFR doesn't consider to be risky weapon

[near scroll]

bfr is consistent, it'll always shoot where you aim, its just punishing if you do miss

[indigo nexus]

Well, it is, compared to some. Maybe it's not a risky pick because it's good, but this comparison I am sure works.

[indigo nexus]

Those are almost the same to me

[near scroll]

well i disagree. but i understand your vision

[indigo nexus]

with the caveat that something being "punishing" can in my mind be alleviated by the thing itself being stronger

[muted condor]

The MGL, spear, dagger, and cerb are all in the dumpster because they are inconsistent

[grand turtle]

"Meta slaves"
A lot of weapons were considered "meta" in the past and suddenly died since they ate a fat nerf
Pike and Cerberus might as well be considered dead at this point

Something either gets a buff it needs to even be considered in serious games or something else gets nerfed to the point of being an unoptimal pick

[copper hazel]

I wouldn't call it risky just solely cuz it's on heavy
If you miss one shot you have 350hp pool, which makes it way more forgiving on misses in compare to weapons like bow, sr-84, repeater etc

[near scroll]

like a 100% accurate no matter what 1 shot 1 kill weapon is consistent, just extremely punishing, cause players are inconsistent

[copper hazel]

Some weapons (like pike or cerberus) are always going to be either meta either on outsiders side, no in-between

Just the problem of those weapons is being on medium class at first place

[muted condor]

Naw, they could be easily balanced but that would require some deep thought on embarks side (never gonna happen)

[indigo nexus]

this is what I generally think of when I use the term consistency

note that I do not consider decisions made by the game and decisions made by the player to be fundamentally different, any scenario would ideally be weighted according to how likely it was to occur regardless of the nature of the factors involved in it

[copper hazel]

If pike gets 50 damage again = it's again full meta
If in return they're nerfing it's fire rate to compensate break points - it's basically second repeater so it barely makes sense to use one weapon over another
If they pump it's firing rate instead of damage - it'll have basically same ttk as repeater but with more shots, so once again, why bother using it over repeater

You see what i mean?

[indigo nexus]

last option seems fine to me, no reason it couldn't work

it would make it more distinct from repeater if anything

[copper hazel]

Well maybe
But tbh I don't want to see another long range weapon in meta, at least yet

They need to tune down bfr and repeater first properly, at least

[muted condor]

Hi black, I’m dad

[wind folio]

Dad, where have you been

[muted condor]

There was a really long line at the check out while I was trying to buy milk

[wind folio]

Can you get me cereal too?

[muted condor]

Sure

[sudden pewter]

Menthol Cigarettes

[grand turtle]

Pike could do like 40 damage but have minimal recoil so it does really well at range, less so up close. Maybe with 2x headshot damage.
49 and 50 damage is a huge breakpoint change. You can clearly see how the usage dropped to near irrelevance after devs put it back below 50. Its just not worth using now.

Just like model is still in the nerfpit since the 108 damage means it doesnt even kill a light with a followup elbow hit
If it got a mere +1 damage per pellet, it would allow a QM finisher on light after a perfect shot
Medium would still die the same from 2 shots and QM
Heavy on other hand could be killed in 3 perfect shots

[sudden pewter]

Model actually fucks with no lubricant, the reload buff puts it into A tier territory

It’s got a deceptive amount of range for a shotgun

Oh damn we got a few baddies this week?

[muted condor]

Gonna buy the pack together for matching fits?

[sudden pewter]

Im one of the 10% that play a male character in Skyrim and I won’t be breaking that habit.

[muted condor]

Gotta look fly with my bestie you know

[sudden pewter]

My Medium CatMaid Support is a goth and I don’t intend to turn her Asian

[muted condor]

That’s why you put it on your male heavy

[sudden pewter]

TWERK EMOTE

No eclipse shade skins this week 💀

The AKM looks clean though

“Despite some adjustments” bro

[serene glade]

they are trying their best bro cmon bro they deserve some slack

they love the word cannibalize

[muted condor]

Where the MGL changes Embark?

[serene glade]

in the works

[chilly granite]

bow has the worst dps in the game, worse than the flamethrower WITHOUT FIRE (ie in smoke)

it was not unneeded

[unkempt moss]

Having more shots would make it more forgiving with a fire rate buff.

[muted condor]

6 more seasons

[muted condor]

Dps isn’t always important

If dps was the most important factor dagger would be meta

[unkempt moss]

Dagger is meta in my heart

[muted condor]

Unironically the biggest change in this patch note

Hopefully they fix gloves and long sleeves next

[chilly granite]

They did improve the consistency, the difference between optimal dps, optimal ttk, and worst case ttk and dps is smaller

[sudden pewter]

Low priority

[chilly granite]

it will make it better for lower skilled players relative to higher skilled players, it's a 10% dps buff for players who can't draw while sliding/bhopping etc to stay at full draw, but a 5% dps buff for players who could

[chilly granite]

yeah I've asked embark to nerf the projectile size and buff the projectile speed, right now it's effectively hitscan to 15meters because the projectile is wide enouhg to compensate for the speed, but beyond 25 it's too slow to hit a remotely competent player

[unkempt moss]

Yeah let's go ahead and get the bow nerfed by next week. Bum ass wep anyway

[indigo nexus]

I do not have any evidence to suggest that the proportion of fully drawn shots fired by players of any skill level is different one way or the other and there are multiple factors that could push it in both ways, so I don't think I can recognise that.

[near scroll]

what do you guys think is the strongest weapon in the game given perfect skill? i'd argue it's bow ngl, even pre-buff

[unkempt moss]

Strongest as in just raw damage output would probably be like double barrel or dagger? Sniper if you want range.

[serene glade]

honestly id argue for revolver given perfect skill

[chilly granite]

When I was learning bow, it was very unforgiving until I had the movement down, lots of deaths due to not having it drawn; if nothing else, this will be mitigated by the change, even if it does help stronger players more

[unkempt moss]

Yeah that's another good answer. Thing rips heavies

[serene glade]

the best answer to the question is always what the cheaters are using tbh

[muted condor]

Technically dagger has the fasted ttk but I think it might be BFR over all

[unkempt moss]

Maybe like an LH1 because of the range and fire rate.

Im trying to think of what weapon I would use if I was aimbotting

[muted condor]

My vote is for BFR

[chilly granite]

the bow projectile is so slow that it's intentionally dodgeable at around 25 meters by heavy, and it's extremely punishable by flowerpotting and pushing as a team

with perfect skill lh1 is aboslutely the best hands down, 4 shot ehadshot heavy (the wiki is wrong)

[muted condor]

If you’re only hit heads I don’t think any weapon can actually beat it I could be wrong tho

[serene glade]

i didnt hate the bow before, but bow user single handedly made me hate this fucking thing

[chilly granite]

hahahah

[muted condor]

I want it dragged into the depths of the river Styx with defib now

[near scroll]

that's a good point, but i think in that 20ish meters range bow is better, esp with dash

[unkempt moss]

Somehow bow is the best but also most victimized weapon in the game

[serene glade]

honestly perfect skill throwing knives never having to reload and the insane dps is something to consider

[unkempt moss]

True.

[vocal flume]

Bruh bow buff is dumb af

[muted condor]

Bow dumb af

[chilly granite]

what range do you die to bow as a sniper?

[muted condor]

Also fuck defib

[unkempt moss]

Bow dumb af

[vocal flume]

All ranges homie, depends on the person using bow and sniper

Sniper should have a rof increase because the 2 and 3 shot are off

[chilly granite]

the lh1 beats it in ttk against solo players even up close, the dash accuracy is possibly a benefit but I don't know if it's actually worth it, and the lh1 is way better against multiple people pushing

[serene glade]

bow and snipers are fighting, someone please come clean up the special ed classroom

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/thefinals-minigun-season-6-the-finals-coined-gif-9581155447877553437

Both weapons suck once I lock bolt their asses

[unkempt moss]

So true king

Heavy really is so spoiled with weapon choices.

[chilly granite]

so beyond 30meters, if you see a bow peek, if you duck, he can't hit you

don't repeek on the same angle or you'll walk into a headshot

ADAD spam also counters bow beyond 30 meters

within 30 meters sniper is meant to lose to bow; the only advantage you have is instant damage application so peek once and hit the headshot and if you dont, leave/give up

at lesat sniper can kill heavy in 1hs + 1 bodyshot the bow doesn't have that, I gotta do a third shot 🙁 ahahahah

if you want,we can do some 1v1s and I can show you some techniques

[muted condor]

They should make it take 4 hits to kill heavy

[chilly granite]

it is if you undercook or undrawn

[unkempt moss]

They should give it the embark treatment and make 4.07 shots to kill a heavy

[chilly granite]

undrawn is 6 hits

[muted condor]

That should be the minimum number

[vocal flume]

I dont use the bow at all tbh, i mainly just snipe, but the sniper rifle has a 2nd and 3rd shot rof issue that happens randomly where itll shoot delayed, after the mouse click or trigger pull it takes 1s to fire, not sure whats up with it but its just something ive noticed, not sure maybe if you played xdefiant and used the sniper you might know what im referring too.

[chilly granite]

I mean that sounds like a bug, I don't get that on the sr84

have you recorded it happening and sent the video to embark?

[near scroll]

does this ttk difference account for bow's first shot being pre-drawn?

[chilly granite]

yes

[near scroll]

ok good to know

but yeah i think the ability to play cover more efficiently with bow dash compared to lh1 is something to take into account

when played optimally you should be taking less damage than an lh1 user surely

[chilly granite]

medium is .44, heavy is .88, bow best is .68 (second shot headshot, second shot bodyshot is .71) and heavy is 1.17 now

[chilly granite]

if multiple peopple puhs via gateway or ssome such, then lh1 is just flat better than bow, but yes, if you are in control of the situation, the bow can take less damage, but will apply less damage

[near scroll]

it will do less dps for sure but can apply more damage per peek which is a strength in its own right

[chilly granite]

but stuff like invis and gadgets grief the bow, which is not true for lh1

[near scroll]

wdym?

[chilly granite]

they break draw

[near scroll]

oh right

still so weird to me that dagger can hold m2 while invis but bow and TKs cant

but i suppose it wouldn't be very fun to play against lol

[chilly granite]

with this buff I don't think they need to tbh

naked draw is a lot better than before and 124 damage hit is crazy from invis

the sr84 has sniper bloom, the bow doesn't; if they let bow draw invis, it should have sniper bloom

[near scroll]

naked draw lol

[near scroll]

u mean scope glint?

[chilly granite]

yeah

but against a cheating bow/perfect skill bow, you can dome shield, force the glitch grenade, and push for free

[near scroll]

true

[chilly granite]

the glitch grenade greiefs their ttk and they'll eat shit

lh1 can bruteforce a dome shield with dps and it can swap to glitch for free

[near scroll]

yea

[chilly granite]

LH1 is absolutely better than bow with perfect skill, but it's way less fun lol

[near scroll]

lh1 dinks do hit tho

[chilly granite]

yeah I do have fun doing ocasional lh1 headshot only runs hahahah

great fun on point break

[near scroll]

btw unrelated but can we get tap for stab/lunge as well as hold pls?

we have m1 to cancel anyways

[vocal flume]

Nah i havent, i find its really no point tbh, i have very little expectations for embark to do anything properly.

[chilly granite]

well I bitched about the bow for a month and look at me 🙂

I'm pretty sure the bow buff was 70% becuase I sent them a video of me failing to kill a heavy solo stealing the point break box under me because I couldn't kill him fast enoguh

the angle was bad for the second headshot becasue of my gravity vortex and I didn't have pre-draw becasue fo the gravity vortex 😢

[indigo nexus]

I am ~100% sure that this was not the primary reason

[chilly granite]

oh for sure not the primary reason

but the specific way it was buffed addresses the corncerns i brouhgt up via gadgets griefing the ttk on the bow

and the really, really awful undrawn dps on the bow

[near scroll]

i mean, wouldnt lessening those weaknesses be lessening the weapon's identity too though? needing to draw a bow is kinda their thing you know, unlike guns

[chilly granite]

I mean, this change lessend those weaknesses and I don't think it lessened the identity; I'm not asking for removing them, but just making it less painful lol

[near scroll]

yea fair

i was just thinking as you buff draw speed more and more you get closer to a semi auto

also buffing undrawn dps

so we need to be careful

[chilly granite]

you lose projectile speed with less draw, so it's still a tradeoff

[near scroll]

true, true

[chilly granite]

and strike damage

and real bows can fire way faster than this in the hands of experts

I think the world record is like, an arrow every half second

[near scroll]

yeah im aware, just thinking in terms of game design

also depends on the bow's draw weight (fire rate) (irl)

[chilly granite]

yeah buffing undrawn dps also does potentially significantly change breakpoints, I think this balance change was actually quite well done/well considered

the bow feels way better, but it's actually not that much better in reality, it's mostly just quality of life is vastly better

[near scroll]

well, yippee

[chilly granite]

like using gadgets feels way less griefy

I really hate how big the arrow is thoguh, I really really wanted a hitbox nerf for the arrow, it actually sucks

you just randomly get shots blocked by chest height walls and flowerpots and shit

And I see shots I know missed land and that makes me feel bad

[unkempt moss]

Did the repeater nerf actually make a difference? I haven't had a chance to check it out.

[near scroll]

no

[chilly granite]

My disgusting animal of a CB player friend didn't even notice

[near scroll]

there u go

[chilly granite]

He first blooded an embark dev like 3 days ago on point break so I'm surprised they didn't nerf it harder

Embark is paid by big cb

[serene glade]

.04s to ADS, embark just a schmeckle of your graces

[chilly granite]

I don't care because the bow can kill a CB faster now

I have one job: arrow the heads of every CB player

[muted condor]

The mini gun does not concern itself with patch notes

[unkempt moss]

So it ADS slightly slower and is more innacurate from the hip?

[near scroll]

yes

[chilly granite]

Only when crouching

In accuracy when doing random shit is unnerfefed and still way too good

[serene glade]

supposedly more innacurate overall is what they are saying, but its worded poorly to me

[unkempt moss]

And its legitimately .04s slower?

[serene glade]

they said they are monitoring so dont worry, they are on the job

[chilly granite]

I landed like 3 noscopes in a row while jumping a couple days ago so that needs a nerf HAMMER

[near scroll]

ads yea

[unkempt moss]

What an embark change

[serene glade]

yeah unironically .04, no cap dead ass on god frfr

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/oblivion-indeed-oblivion-indeed-gif-27376941

[chilly granite]

It's insane too because the CB is ruining games for casuals

[near scroll]

for everyone

[chilly granite]

Casuals especially though, and it's gotta be costing embark money lol

[unkempt moss]

I wonder what their internal data told them to make that change. Why that exact number

[chilly granite]

Like this might be a good nerf for the pro scene but it's not gonna help timmy getting bullied by CBs in his point break

[chilly granite]

Probably didn't want to to encroach on the pikes ads speed, keep em differentiated

[serene glade]

its not a good nerf at all....

[chilly granite]

I mean, I know, but you get my point

"even if this was a good nerf for the pro scene" was a better way to phrase it

and the lifeblood of any game is the plebs

[indigo nexus]

Has anyone measured how much the hipfire accuracy was reduced?

[serene glade]

embark is literally mentally handicapped, ive learned this by now so its whatever. there is no balance philosophy anymore and there is no plan for anything. light is their most played class so trying to "revive" one of their lesser used guns is gonna get people to stick around and play with that i guess is their thinking

[chilly granite]

do you actually think anyone wil come back to the game for the bow?

[near scroll]

nah

[chilly granite]

anyone who liked the bow in the first place wasn't quitting the finals

[unkempt moss]

Thats far outside my capabilities.

[sonic zephyr]

most ppl that leave a game move on for good. ppl that revisit a game after leaving it is a very, very slim minority

[serene glade]

i didnt say they were smart, i just dont understand the thinking of anything they do

[chilly granite]

like, of all the takes there are, I don't think "the bow was perfectly balanced and didn't need any changes" is not a good one

[indigo nexus]

Well this makes sense, we aren't involved in the process and only have a vague understanding of the balance

[chilly granite]

even if you think it's op, that's a better take than it doesn't need changes at all

[grand turtle]

As if there wont be a new "bully" gun if Repeater eats a nerf that makes it useless

[serene glade]

im fine with bow getting a change, but why

[chilly granite]

idk how they refuse to nerf dash

[indigo nexus]

bow change didn't surprise me at all though

[sonic zephyr]

lets be honest are these changes even tangible? stuff seems so miniscule

[chilly granite]

bow change absolutely

[sudden pewter]

Do we have any references to Hipfire pre-change?

[grand turtle]

Famas feels way worse thats for sure
You can feel the jumps in recoil

[indigo nexus]

Yes, I will compare it when I next load up the game. Am busy* now

[chilly granite]

yeah famas changes are big too, it's way better tap firing thoguh

[indigo nexus]

I'm a bit surprised they considered famas to need another nerf, I thought that was already dealt with

[chilly granite]

I didn't find it overshadowed the akm and fcar for sure

[unkempt moss]

I saw people in GF complaining about it pretty regularly.

[grand turtle]

Tap firing?
Everyone clicks as fast as possible to deal the damage

[sudden pewter]

I figured Famas was fine, just ever reliable as it’s been for a hot minute

[sonic zephyr]

idk feels like they just wanted to fill out the patch notes ngl

[chilly granite]

Ik I'm just saying, it is better tap firing if you so choose

[unkempt moss]

It certainly wasn't a top priority for balancing in the game. Not by a long shot.

[chilly granite]

so many more things that needed more urgent balance passes lol

[indigo nexus]

If I were embark I'd have stopped reading that some time ago, honestly :p

But I can't say I noticed the same

[sudden pewter]

Maybe? With how lackluster changes were at S9 launch that could be it

[sonic zephyr]

looks at half the games sandbox

[unkempt moss]

I was just thinking the same thing. "We gotta make it look like we're doing something guys"

[sudden pewter]

Insert the standard “We hear you!”

[chilly granite]

grav vortex 😿

[sudden pewter]

-But only when we want to, and it has to match our ESPORTS vision for the future

[serene glade]

theres no way they tested gravity vortex and then put it in the game

[chilly granite]

it's so hilariously bad dude

[grand turtle]

I wonder if FCAR will become the new problem child after the Famas nerf

[serene glade]

which leaves me to believe they dont play or test the game ever

[sonic zephyr]

what if we had zaryas ult but it suffers from an errectile disfunction

[chilly granite]

the suck radius is tiny, the delay is forever and a day, and the pull is inconsiqential

I tried using votex frag and the vortex couldn't reliably suck my frag

like, how is it even possible it's this shit

[muted condor]

Better than the time they adjusted every fucking weapon draw time by 0.02 lmao

[serene glade]

that saved the game what are you talking about

[sudden pewter]

A while ago it completely overshadowed the AKM for several seasons

[chilly granite]

they should make grav vortex a grav vortex grenade it would be so cool and maybe actually useful

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/yessir-4t-4tomistalt-4tomist-4tmeme-gif-14459048726828889418

[serene glade]

[near scroll]

you can't be serious

[unkempt moss]

Was the famas over represented at The Grand Major™

[indigo nexus]

This seems like quite an exaggeration, it is a good stalling device in general.

It is both on the harder side to use and not meta, though

[grand turtle]

I would point at the very random mag nerf AKM receieved and abysmal hipfire it has

[muted condor]

You right. It made such a big difference the game is way better because of that

[near scroll]

iirc it was picked over the other two ARs but other guns were played too

[serene glade]

thank you for the trademark

[sudden pewter]

Nobody else’s Major is allowed to be Grand.

[near scroll]

THE FINALS™ : the greatest virtual reality game show!

[chilly granite]

it's only use is as a stalling device, though

I was trying to use it in intersting ways, such as to slow down melee bois and flamethrowers, and it just was entirely useless

[indigo nexus]

I've seen people make good use of it in such contexts, but it is relatively hard

[unkempt moss]

Sausage, you keep responding and he will not stop or accept your opinion. Bow User is a psy op by embark to kill one of the only decent channels on the cord.

[chilly granite]

I mean, I did succeed some of the time, but it was a huge pain, the timing on it is obscenely tight

and the payoff wasn't that good either, the bow doesn't have the dps to abuse people in a grav vortex properly

if I was using arn, then I proably would've kept going

[sudden pewter]

He’s flooding the market with off brand Bow-Centric Light sludge to drown out meaningful feedback to try and get the ARN another 25 legendary skins

[chilly granite]

no fuck the arn

i hate the arn bully the arn

give me matter skins

alright children you will have some respite I need to leave my pc for a bit gl enjoy arguing

[sonic zephyr]

there are like, 4 matter players they will make no money with matter stuff

[serene glade]

theres already a matter cow skin where you gotta milk it to reload. why does anyone want anything else

[unkempt moss]

Truthfully, is the matter fun?

[serene glade]

its on light so no

[sonic zephyr]

its prob the best pumpgun out of all of em, which doesnt say much

[indigo nexus]

maybe grav vortex should be able to activate faster. It would be much easier to use it in 'clutch' situations

[serene glade]

it would be better if it just didnt tell enemy teams where its at with a giant floating beam of bullshit tbh

[indigo nexus]

Eh, that's fine. It would be annoying to have it be hard to detect, I'd rather it was more potent but identifiable

[sudden pewter]

You’re a stupid dumb stinky idiot!!! The particles are integral to the identity of the Vortex

[serene glade]

i mean it happens once and then you are just aware of it the next time, cant you still knock over the cashbox on top of c4 to hide it

[sonic zephyr]

otherwise the enemy wouldnt know that there was one. i dont wanna startle them

[sudden pewter]

Mines chirp like they’re low on battery, and the Vortex uses smoke signals to tell enemies and allies alike of its location

[serene glade]

thats actually true, dont wanna hurt identities. identities and class roles and esports are all VITAL to the game

[sudden pewter]

I will feast upon your weak subconscious.

[serene glade]

also its the only "mine" that doesnt go off when you shoot it no?

just breaks

[unkempt moss]

Ive been trying to think of a way to buff or make it useful. I feel like its just not a great design.

[serene glade]

i dont think light deserves stalling gadgets, but again like what were they thinking with this thing

[unkempt moss]

Its a deployable like APS, not a mine.

[muted condor]

To bad light has the best stalling gadget in the game

[serene glade]

yeah they really do

[unkempt moss]

Is it the m11?

[sudden pewter]

I’m not sure what niche the vortex is supposed to fill, if it’s stall, Breach Charge can drop the cashout station easier and light gets x2 of them iirc

[muted condor]

Has the 2 best stalling items

[serene glade]

get this.....they get 3

[sonic zephyr]

3 of em but they still suck

[muted condor]

Nulifier, goo gun, and winch are pretty the best stalling gadgets

[sonic zephyr]

its like instead of one turd you get 3 now. which idk doesnt sound so exciting

[sudden pewter]

Hey contestants! We’ve seen via our omnipresent “data” that breaching charge has been cannibalizing the role of Vortex since its release, to remedy this we’ve increased the arm time of breach charge by 0.2s. This is something we’ll be actively monitoring.

[unkempt moss]

Thank you, embark-sama

[chilly granite]

that's the change I suggested to embark support

[sonic zephyr]

Hey contestants! We’ve seen via our omnipresent “data” that the v9 has been dominating the lobbies, to remedy this we’ve decreased the ADS-time by 0.000000000043 seconds. This is something we’ll be actively monitoring.

[unkempt moss]

Nullifier is so good. I hate that it gets downplayed by lights so much.

[muted condor]

Based off our stats it looks like the m11 has been over performing so we will be lowering the AKMs ammo by 2

[serene glade]

well it used to be a free kill button, now they have to think ever so slightly more about using it which is NOT ok

[muted condor]

It’s so annoying I’m glad they are to stupid to use it

[sudden pewter]

Lights are a Hivemind that mindlessly copy eachother. Until a pro player makes a TikTok about how useful the nullifier is it’ll never be popular

[unkempt moss]

I'd take nully on heavy in a second. The damage mitigation and isolation alone would be insane

[chilly granite]

I like nulifier but im tdm main and I'm bad at using it effecrtively in tdm

and getting blocked by shields is bullshit

[sonic zephyr]

Based off our stats it looks like we've been losing players, to remedy this were having even more unique stuff hidden behind the ultimate pass next season. This is something we'll be not actively monitoring cuz fuck do we care about you as a customer.

[muted condor]

If nullifier starts getting used in every round I’m uninstalling the game

[sudden pewter]

Deadass someone suggested the Light should be able to nullify themselves to guarantee an escape

[serene glade]

they should let me suck the barrel of my MGL down when a double barrel light is dashing at me, and suicide bomb myself

[sonic zephyr]

im fine with lights to be able to shoot themselfes with their primary

[muted condor]

We will also be do absolutely no balancing changes for all of season 10 out of respect for a pro player that literally no one knows or cares about

[sudden pewter]

Light Son or Turret Daughter

[unkempt moss]

Turret

[chilly granite]

hot take, no class should be allowed to double dip on specs

No invis bomb, no gateway, no dome shield

[sonic zephyr]

talking like turret isnt just self-harm with extra steps

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-team-fortress-heavy-gif-21772094

[serene glade]

im freezing with this take

[chilly granite]

wait does that mean u agree?

[serene glade]

yeah

[chilly granite]

I didn't think a heavy main would agree with delete dome shield tbh

[serene glade]

im not even using dome rn so idc

[sudden pewter]

That’s because I’m using 5G to make him think he agrees to try and make you leave

[chilly granite]

I'm back for good bitch

[sudden pewter]

Begone foul spectre. This is hallowed ground

[serene glade]

goo grenade is my dome and my goo is me sir

[chilly granite]

I'm gonna forget to sleep and be shitting up this channel for another 36 hours just like two days ago

[unkempt moss]

GooGun provides

[chilly granite]

no double dipping goo grenade and goo gun

[sudden pewter]

Goo Grenade has been replacing Dome in some skrims and it’s wild to see Lights without Glitch

[unkempt moss]

GOUF patch has googren exclusive to medium anyway

[sudden pewter]

Truly a new era for Embark. Doubtless this shift is due to ESPORTS and it’ll only have positive effects moving forward

[chilly granite]

oh god no, the bow's enviro dps is even worse than it's regular dps and I can't even use a glitch grenade

when I see goo I have to sit there and melee it

[sudden pewter]

I hate to inform you that the bow isn’t what the game is balanced around and that lawn gnomes are real, feel pain, and carry cameras hidden in their pointy hats.

[chilly granite]

it (prebuff) took 5 seconds to kill a zipline

idek how long it'd take to kill a goo glob with bow

[serene glade]

the only spec that gets double dipped is light tbf. but id like to see any changes to this game at this point

[chilly granite]

and dome shield/mesh shield, but light is by far the worst offender

[serene glade]

wtf, is that why my moms house is covered in gnomes

[sudden pewter]

Flash Grenades now have a “Skill Issue” text when you’re full flashed

[unkempt moss]

I told you she works for the CIA

[chilly granite]

two specs made entirely redundant by their gadgets, at least heavies spec version is better enough that people still think about using it

[serene glade]

gnomeo and juliet 2

[chilly granite]

meanwhile the light gadgets are mostly upgrades vs spec

[sudden pewter]

Smurfs are mammals and that means smurfette can make milk. And with Smurf milk we can make Smurf Cheese.

[serene glade]

still more bold than anything theyve done in over a year lets do it

[chilly granite]

I think flashes should bounce off walls in rooms

[serene glade]

smurf cheese sounds like something you should take up with your doctor

[sonic zephyr]

wait they dont?!

[sudden pewter]

I’ll bet it’s blue and stinky

[chilly granite]

like, reflect off walls in enclosed spaces, I phrased that terribly

[unkempt moss]

God I hope so

[sonic zephyr]

ah. no

[sudden pewter]

Light take

[chilly granite]

yes this is a certified light take

but I think if you nerf the flash duration but make them actaully vaugly reliable it would be cool

[unkempt moss]

Can't wait to be flashed by my light teammate just for being semi near them

[serene glade]

the fat version of heavy should be slower than the buff heavy, but it has the ability to consume enemy trophies

[muted condor]

[sonic zephyr]

i've seen like 3 flashbangs in my 700 hours and you talk about nerfing the flashbang?

[sudden pewter]

Flashes should show up in the damage feed on death because I’m fucking sick of being flashed by a dumbass teammate I want names and recipts

[chilly granite]

I'm also talking about making them impossible to miss in the same patch

[unkempt moss]

Gives him natural armor on trophy consumption

[chilly granite]

if you make them impossible to miss, it's gonna be soooo op if you don't nerf their stats

[sonic zephyr]

aight so we're just cooking up some BULLSHIT for the sake of it?

[chilly granite]

bullshit I thikn would be fun, but yes

[serene glade]

flamethrower heavy just consumed our heavy sir, they our pushing up the stairs of monaco as we speak

[unkempt moss]

Maybe we'll get a holtow skin that prints receipts of all the people you flashed.

[sudden pewter]

Naw fuck Holtow

[chilly granite]

unironically I'd take a shorter fuse time on the flash, they take forever to pop

it makes it really hard to throw a good flash that'll pop in a window or whatever

[muted condor]

I’d love a breach charge buff

[chilly granite]

honestly I don't think most of lights gadgets need buffs, just make the op ones less good (ie, delete gateway and invis bomb)

oh and h+ should be a spec not a gadget

[sonic zephyr]

light is dead when his spec doesnt give him survivalbility

[chilly granite]

like grapple?

[muted condor]

Gateway is awesome but dumb asses only use it for moving cash boxes because lights can’t comprehend a complex play

[sonic zephyr]

grapple, dash and invis give him a way to evade yes

[chilly granite]

no

grapple does not, it's so easy to aim at a grappling light, which is why grapple is permanetly garbage

dash and invis yes

[unkempt moss]

I can move my entire team for an instant flank? No just cashbocks delivery system

[muted condor]

Having a spear heavy suddenly teleport into your room from a gateway is horrifying

[sonic zephyr]

yeah ok i thats simply cap and im done talking to you

[chilly granite]

I tried using gateway and delivered my entire team to their deaths 🤷

[sudden pewter]

Lights will be like cavemen discovering fire when they’re told for the 15th time Nullifier turns a 3v3 into a 2v3

[unkempt moss]

Our current move is to just use it as an MGL delivery system.

[chilly granite]

huh does he think it's hard to shoot a light using grapple? or something else?

[muted condor]

I can defend cash out from a distance and gateway to it instantly if needed? Naw just move cash boxes

[chilly granite]

I really don't enjoy using gateway but it's so op I have a really hard time justifying takeing any other gadget over it

[muted condor]

I can give my heavy a way to move between floors easily? Naw ima just never throw it after delivering the cash

[chilly granite]

gateway should 100% be a spec if it's not delted

[unkempt moss]

I'd hate if my light used gateway effectively instead of using it as a jump pad substitute 80m away from the team.

[muted condor]

I like lock-bolting boxes that people leave unattended after trying to gateway it

[chilly granite]

honestly I think gateway should be deleted beacause that shit is way too strong for sure

[muted condor]

We should remove defib from the game tho

[unkempt moss]

My favorite is the 12m horizontal teleport by throwing it in front of them. Very effective use of that cooldown.

[muted condor]

Fuck defib

[chilly granite]

this but because my team always griefs with it, just rez normally please

[muted condor]

We agree on one thing 🤝

The are annoying to fight and have on your team

[chilly granite]

I literally had a teammate, straight up, 2v2 fight, enemy was low hp, i told them, he fucking prepp'd his defibs and walked in between the two enemies to defib me instead of just manning up with our other teammate

[muted condor]

It’s a fucking crutch, zero effort, dog shit gadget that should be vaporized

[sudden pewter]

Light should be removed and Medium/Heavy renamed to “Normy” and “Redditor” respectively

[unkempt moss]

Imagine if we just woke up today and the defib was removed from the game. I'd be throwing a party.

[muted condor]

I’d be taking the day off work just to play the game and actually have fun for the first time

[chilly granite]

the defib should take longer to prep but give more hp at least

and no spec cd, like, gadget cd is fine, but let me dash ffs

[muted condor]

“Oh but it’s faster than a normal revive-“ NO ITS FUCKING NOT YOU TROGLODYTE

[chilly granite]

^^^^

[sudden pewter]

There should be a punishment for dumbasses that coin when a revive is 90% complete

[chilly granite]

there should be a punishment for assholes who defib when a rez is 90% done

[muted condor]

IT TAKES ME 12 FUCKING SECONDS AFTER TO BE ACTUALLY READY TO FIGHT

[chilly granite]

my light ass took time out of my day to sit here and press rez on him, and you walk up with your fancy defibs and steal my stats and make the game harder to play

[unkempt moss]

There should be punishment for dumbasses that defib when a revive is 75% done. Thank you, I didnt want my gadgets or full health.

[serene glade]

a light and a heavy is down, the wild medium player will defib the light in the middle of combat, and try to run away with the heavy trophy. the ecosystem stays in balance

[chilly granite]

light 🤝 heavy hating mediums

[muted condor]

Yeah go ahead defib the mini gun heavy so he can do literally nothing for the next 12 seconds that is so helpful. Why don’t you just shove a red canister up my ass next time because it will have the same effect on the match

[unkempt moss]

Reload your mini and stand there half health, chud.

[muted condor]

Btw I hate defib if you didn’t know

[chilly granite]

r8 my loadout

[unkempt moss]

Horse ass/10

[muted condor]

Leave the mini gun with no weapon to defend himself with and half of the only resource that gives me an advantage

[muted condor]

2/10
not heavy
Not mini gun

[sudden pewter]

Defib is great because the Medium can do things other than stare at a statue as their teammate rebuilds. The problem is dumb Mediums defibbing with 0 cover and enabling their patients to get farmed

[cerulean furnace]

Defib is 100% a skill check

[sudden pewter]

I’m sure it isn’t feasible but if Defib had conditionals like no LoS on an enemy model or they added a fucking decline defib it would be more tolerable

[unkempt moss]

Defib is busted af

[sudden pewter]

What if I killed you and wore your skin as a hat

[unkempt moss]

You'd look great

[sudden pewter]

💅

[cerulean furnace]

I dont play it much, but I keep the foresight to drag my teammates to safety first.
Medium already doesn't have much goin on in terms of gadgets except mobility. Breach Drill is a joke, defib punishes u easily and Reshaper is barely used especially cuz of the 2 charges

[muted condor]

Not proud of it but I’ve started throwing matches when I get a dumb defib

[sudden pewter]

Defib is an opportunity cost to try and salvage a death where other gadgets (especially goo) could prevent them in the first place

[unkempt moss]

Let me googun trophies and you can keep defib

[muted condor]

You’re gonna defib me while the other team mate was half way through the revive? Fuck you im jumping of the closest void

[cerulean furnace]

It's a crutch yes, but I don't feel like it's unfair to me. It usually makes Mediums defenseless if used wrong

[sudden pewter]

Pro’s use defib because they play a diet version of the game where everything is streamlined and everyone on the map is competent

The common Medium isn’t a professional gamer and use it because 2/3 players tell them to do so

[wide stratus]

I honestly love doing this to bad teammates

[unkempt moss]

You have to draw the line somewhere. Pop off, king.

[muted condor]

Real

Usually I turn on vc and tell them to please not do that again but if they do it a second time I’m not dealing with it

[sudden pewter]

It’s not unfair, and Lights crying about “defib trains” have severe skill issues. But defib does have issues unrelated to balance and stealing revives is definitely one of them

[wide stratus]

Ugh you're so tuff

[muted condor]

Defib is simply annoying when bad team mates use it or a zero effort gadget that will just win a gun fight you should have lost by all rights

[muted condor]

I know. I’m manly as fuck and have huge muscles

[sudden pewter]

He braids his armpit hair

[wide stratus]

Hating on defib is crazy tho, it's not even that strong

[muted condor]

This is true

[wide stratus]

You can see the person being revived, it takes a little for them to revive, they don't have full health,

[unkempt moss]

He says as its been mandatory on M for 9 seasons and people actively flame you for not using it.

[chilly granite]

we hate it becasue it's weak and annoying, not because it's opressive

[muted condor]

I will complement my double light randoms before I ever respect a defib user

[wide stratus]

Ah I mean I think it's fair to flame someone if they're not either running defib OR healing beam.

[sudden pewter]

• 50% Health
• 5s Revive Sickness (no gadgets or spec)
• Revived at death state (likely need to reload weapon)

[wide stratus]

How is it weak? You literally revive a teammate

[wide stratus]

Genuinely the worst take I have ever heard

[muted condor]

Glitch trap, goo grenade, jump pad is the true best load out

[sudden pewter]

It’s a Light, don’t pay it any mind

[chilly granite]

spot the medium player, you revive a crippled teammate who can't play the game

[sudden pewter]

Mine, Pad, Goo

[wide stratus]

Yea idk what you're on about atp

[muted condor]

We should draw and quarter defib users

[unkempt moss]

Glitch Trap is the best light bully tool. I wish heavy got it.

[wide stratus]

We should delete lights

Make the game heavy, medium and gay ppl

Oh wait that's what lights are

[muted condor]

I just like to watch dash lights freaking tf out when they hit glitch before I touch them

[wide stratus]

Before you WHAT

[chilly granite]

it's basically glitching your teammate to revive them slightly faster

[sudden pewter]

My Medium Duo brings glitch mines specifically for Lights and seeing a DB or Dagger Light panic when they can’t dash is cocaine to me

[wide stratus]

It's significantly faster. You revive and can still fight rather than having to be completely alone/behind cover to revive the teammate

[sudden pewter]

Knowing they’re an ant between my fingers feeds my god complex and grants me a pleasure no righteous deed can provide

[wide stratus]

Now THIS is tuff ^^

[sudden pewter]

Sometimes we edge them with the glitch mines just for me to winch them back in and see them jump more

Goo does nothing but prolong their suffering. But they throw it regardless

[unkempt moss]

Thats called GooEdging. They keep us right on the cusp.

[muted condor]

Touch, I’m going to touch them

Lock bolting a light inside a glitch mine maximum squirming

[chilly granite]

I wisht there was leaderboards for wepoans so I know how many people get lvl 13 bow before me

to be fair I got lvl 12 this month so I'm still probably the nerdiest bow of them all

also I would probably like nullifier more if I didn't accidentally try to lead my headshots with it like it's a bow

[stoic garden]

repeater and famas "nerfs" 😵 😵 😵

[chilly granite]

idk if I should take breach charge over frag but I feel like I'm ass at using breach charge

[sudden pewter]

@serene glade bro all the dummies are completely missing your joke and taking it as genuine feedback

Do it again

[chilly granite]

I think sonar is needed with the bow to make it maxiumally effective

being able to see enemies hps lets you use exactly how much draw you need to kill em which is a huge buff to the bow

[unkempt moss]

He caught a 4 hour ban for making a joke about a certain financier and his ocean landmass of evil

[sudden pewter]

Oof

[slow linden]

It feels almost intentionally like they want to make one random class broken as fuck every season with only one weapon

[stoic garden]

i too like a weapon with zero weaknesses

[unkempt moss]

Don't we all. You just have to win the embark lottery and hope its your weapon that season.

[stoic garden]

i started maining lh1 in like late s7 and it got buffed in s8

[unkempt moss]

I cant remember what season LH1 was a nuke in but I think you got it after it got toned way down.

[stoic garden]

it was season 3 where it 3 tapped lights, played it, didn't like it

[unkempt moss]

It was an absolute menace for one season.

[muted condor]

The Embark cycle
Buff a weapon into absurdity
Sell a bunch of skins for it
Nerf it into oblivion so people have to find a new weapon
Repeat

[stoic garden]

except v9s has one billion skins already

[muted condor]

They weren’t selling any so that’s why it got a buff

[unkempt moss]

It does have the cool alien skin... maybe i should play it.

[stoic garden]

cuz all the good ones were in battle passes ☺️

[muted condor]

Now they are going to murder the weapon at the end of the season and buff a different one

[unkempt moss]

Please be flamethrower

[muted condor]

What are people using in the Chinese server right now?

[stoic garden]

frankly i dont care, i just hate the concept of v9s being a weapon with literally zero weaknesses

[unkempt moss]

Handfuls of social credits with a pellet spread like a shotgun

[stoic garden]

even fuckass 52 dmg pike had its reload time as a weakness, v9s does has basically the fastest reload in the game

[unkempt moss]

Of all the weapons it is probably the dumbest one to make this strong.

[stoic garden]

Lowkey preferred 93r meta over this

cuz that shit could only kill lights 😴

[muted condor]

Bring back the cl40 to its old glory

I loved reading the feedback channel then

[stoic garden]

old cl 40 was the shit bro, aint been the same since they made splash damage be completely dynamic

or whatever you call it

[muted condor]

It’s always been kinda shit

[unkempt moss]

Is the MGL like this? I feel like it makes the launchers feel like complete shit.

Having it ramp from zero

[stoic garden]

all explosives have the gradual damage falloff instead of the specific distance gated one

been this way since what? season 4?

[unkempt moss]

With the shape of the servers it almost feels like it should be staged with a minimum daImage threshold.

[unkempt moss]

I vaguely remember this change. That sounds right.

[stoic garden]

nah, have your 6 ammo count cl40

[slow linden]

Flamethrower too would be murdered at the end of the season,including it in this cycle would be most not good

[unkempt moss]

And I'd still use it.

Just like the titan, I will use it once its been gutted.

[placid slate]

3

[placid slate]

Last I checked Asian heavies used ks and charge

General loadout is more solo focused

[sudden pewter]

Asian Mediums use turret

[muted condor]

KS meta season 10

[placid slate]

Valid considering how the game is supposedly played there

[chilly granite]

should i take thermal bore or nullifier for a stall gadget?

[sudden pewter]

Are you…agreeing with me? 🥺

On the Internet?

[unkempt moss]

Hes agreeing adjacent to you.

[kindred gorge]

I think a thermite/laser drill specialization for medium would be cool. Like a tool for extremely controlled demolition like opening windows on a point or you could draw around a section of the wall/floor and it could make use of the new destruction physics

And I think the light could have a spec that gives nearby teammates and themselves a movement speed/jump boost since that would give light mains interested in team utility more to work with

[sturdy dome]

Test

[wild zenith]

how is current v9s compared to pre-buff?

[upper pelican]

Imagine if pike hip fire was laser like

Would be tuf right

[muted condor]

Ok ima have to Catter this man

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shoo-away-gif-13653609800890535042

[stoic garden]

the first one is called dematerializer

[slow linden]

Titan wasn't exactly gutted thank god,it was just made more or less the same but a little more awkward and thus not attractive to most players

Sword was gutted but turned from a skill weapon to the most brainless button mashy mediocre weapon in the game,and is only used to stomp lobbies of bad players

It used to be out of reach of less skilled players,though yes it was a little overtuned it did not need to be gutted like that,they could've removed multi hit from it

[unkempt moss]

I meant when they inevitably gut the Beefer

[analog pewter]

used the famas, it feels mostly the same tbh
i did feel more pressured to ADS but otherwise the recoil change didnt seem too bad at all

[analog pewter]

noted, gooing people does not count for this challenge

is there anything other than winch claw, grav vortex, and lockbolt?

[gilded verge]

Are gas grenades or pyro grenades generally better for instance would you take pyro into a team of majority heavies or gas?

what situation would one be better then the other curious about everyone’s opinions

[analog pewter]

gas is def better imo
much larger aoe

[gilded verge]

Ah ok ok noted thanks🫡

[shell sonnet]

Couldve sworn ive seen grav cube work

But they either need to come to a halt, be inside it for 2 seconds, or reach the top of the aoe

Or i am gaslighting myself rn

[analog pewter]

oh grav cube probably works

[shell sonnet]

Would be funny if jump pad/dematting someone into a pit worked

Since you are manipulating their movement

Maybe nullifier if the enemy tries to open a door/zipline

[slow linden]

If they nerf it any further it will be unusable

It's in a usable state as of now

[sudden pewter]

Gas also deals more damage the longer ones in it

It starts at 40iirc and goes up(?)

[primal elm]

does anyone know why or how this bug exisits or works? I have gotten heal beam to level 6 and have the skin for it but when i go into the overview and look at the xp it says im working on making it level 6 again not 7. I do in fact have the level 6 and can use the skin, and should be working on making it level 7, not 6.

[jagged yarrow]

On the Final Notice ARN-220 skin, does anyone know what the small text says under the “OVERWHELMING ODDS” sticker?

[kindred gorge]

Nah different use case. Thermite could be used more sustainably rather than 3 charges at a time, and allows you to breach a room to attack without exposing your whole team/body, with the trade off that it’s not reversible like demat is

Fixes the double wall issue some people have been running into with demat and breach drill as well

[analog pewter]

its weird that light has the most viable gadget variety bc when i play them i feel like i have the least playstyle variety of all 3 classes lol

[analog pewter]

idk playing light makes me angry
it's such a frustrating experience

[atomic shard]

as a light only player, i can say that it is hell.

[analog pewter]

it feels like the only times I have the ability to participate is when cleaning up or if my opponents are dipshits

[atomic shard]

i am one shot to every class. if i dont hit EVERY shot of any given weapon its an automatic death sentence

[analog pewter]

and like even their good weapons feel uncomfortable to me

[atomic shard]

M11 is my newest favorite, they just nerfed my V9S by 5 meters and buffed bow so now i have to try bow lol

[muted condor]

At least lights don’t have defib

[analog pewter]

every time i use the m11 i feel like i leave my target at 1hp and either get double teamed or run out of ammo 😭

[atomic shard]

it does. simple as that. its infuriating.

i can solo fight any class any combo but put me against 2 mediums and im cooked

[analog pewter]

pls embark give me 4 more contestant slots so i may have 4 of each class

[drowsy horizon]

Best weapons?

[unkempt moss]

Which weight?

L - M11 or ARN
M - I believe AKM is the beginner weapon.
H - i think SHAK, but someone here said it was too hard for new players. So probably M60.

But thats for new players which I'm assuming you are.

[drowsy horizon]

I prefer playing on light settings 😉

[unkempt moss]

I figured. ARN or M11 then.

[drowsy horizon]

Thanks brother, you're the best without a doubt. 🖖🏽

[unkempt moss]

Np. Good luck.

[livid cradle]

I have a question, I have been playing the finals for abt a year now on and off but all I play is quick cash but I’m still level 30, does quick cash give a super low amount of xp or do I just need to keep playing to level up

I don’t really want to play ranked or Cashout bc I’m scared that if my kd affects the game my win rate might drop and I’m playing light with m11 so my kd fluctuates a lot

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[unkempt moss]

Tournaments probably give more XP because it can technically be 3 matches long. This is just speculation but cashout is the premier mode of the game so it wouldn't surprise me if it gave more XP as incentive.

Why are you worried about your w/l dropping? If functioning correctly, the match making will eventually place you with people of your skill level and your w/l should even out again.

K/d also isnt the only measurement of success in this game, even on light. You can play a support light very successfully while you work through your ranked anxiety.

[livid cradle]

Thanks, I’ll give it a try

[unkempt moss]

Just remember that ranked isnt about the color of the metal next to your name or about the skins you receive. Its about improving, being slightly better than the match before. That slight improvement will end up being major improvement over time. Just focus on learning and being as consistent as possible. Consistency will always trump short moments of greatness.

You will lose. Everyone does. So dont let fear of losing keep you from learning from the loss.

[silk plaza]

[livid cradle]

Thx❤️

[silk plaza]

Sheehsss

Lihht needs bud

[wooden prawn]

I'm curious what is the best way to use sledgehammer? I use winch claw with it and lockbolt but the Lights are always so fast I can't even hit them even with lockbolt keeping them stuck.

[sonic zephyr]

if your other 2 teammates cant deal with the light or at least damage him enough to make him oneshot on winch you simply need to switch off sledge. Light is the one class that can simply outrun you, even on winch

[wooden prawn]

So its kinda like Minigun/one of those weapons where you need the support of your teammates to really make it effective?

[sonic zephyr]

no you will be fine against mediums and heavy once you figure the sledge out but theres not much you can do against lights, at least not on your own

[wooden prawn]

Ah ok. Unfortunately most people play light. 😅

[sonic zephyr]

a full or 2/3 light teams are rather rare so dont worry too much about it

[wooden prawn]

Really? I thought most people play light still considering they have all the good weapons it feels like. 🤔

[sonic zephyr]

they lack force. a full light team has on paper the most damage but nothing to force cashouts really. so if you dig in and play defence they have pretty much no chance

[wooden prawn]

Makes sense.

[chilly granite]

that's why i think dash+gateway shoulod be nerf ahmmered. They would have to make light viable outside of being annoiyn wasp if dash + gateway weren't op bullshit

[chilly granite]

whoever said shak is too hard is skill issue flagging themself, if you've played csgo before then shak is ezpz

m60 is very ez and fun gun though

[chilly granite]

preach queeennnnn 👏 tryna teach my buddies this but they have zoomer mindset and care more about kd/number on screen than actual performance

[chilly granite]

my buddy plays sledge in tdm soemtimes which is 90% light lobbies (lol tdm) and he works on a basis that if there's no building, there's no long corners for a light to peek him wiht. Break the house down and then drop the hammer when a light approaches your cave

in cashout 2/3 light teams will either be so good they skill diff the entire lobby regardless of weapon or so bad that they lose first round

[cobalt elbow]

i love getting yelled at by both teammates for not bringing defibs when I solo que in cashout because over half the time people get back up and just run head first back into the fight with no through process and just waste the defib. We arent in pro league dude, I don't care if you are, this is cashout not even ranked, im not adhearing to your meta slave bullshit, when i know other shit works just fine. We won in the end.

[near scroll]

@indigo nexus hey can you send TTK graphs for BFR, deagles and lewis gun pls? im wondering how differently they perform at range. thanks!

[unkempt moss]

Defibs are a crutch for dogshit players anyway. Just play what's fun. Way too many people have gotten used to playing stupid because defib is a free fix for bad positioning and game sense.

[unkempt moss]

GooHammer is and will always be the best.

[wooden prawn]

I think you just like Goo

[pale hollow]

Can they and a short barrel and stock skin for the lever action rifle

[cobalt elbow]

dont get me wrong defib has it place and can be amazing but, you shouldnt rely upon it like they were, they kept pointing out spots where I could have used it but even if i had in most situations they would have respawned back and then while I was having to book it away because enemies were there their iframes would have went away long before they could even hide

[chilly granite]

nah goo sledge has crazy synergy, winch sledge is only better against lights and goo sledge can still abuse lights anyway?

[oblique crypt]

I hate being defibed in the middle of the enemy team.

[chilly granite]

defibs should be a spec and should be good

the arn should have more recoil

[boreal laurel]

Except last night when, in one QC lobby, literally everyone but me was light 🤡 dude I hate lights so much

[sonic zephyr]

QC is unhinged anyways no one cares about propper comps there

[indigo nexus]

just for this request I finally decided to add a visualiser for many weapons' TTKs at once

[muted condor]

Spit yo shit twin

[shell sonnet]

does anybody have the rough size of the arena's?

[muted condor]

They’re about🫸 🫷 big

[indigo nexus]

haha, check out this graphslop

it's not that readable but I kind of like it

[compact tundra]

Why does the p90 have good range 😭

[indigo nexus]

it doesn't 🤔

[pale gust]

I dig it, that famas has such a hard falloff that's nuts

[indigo nexus]

the volume between it and the other lines before it becomes a better option than the guns it can beat at range, is much higher than the volume after it. And generally mid range is more important than long range

[compact tundra]

I mean the mid range is significantly worse but at 35m+ the p90 has better ttk's than the ARs

[indigo nexus]

well, that's where it becomes better than the AKM. But only temporarily due to the slight dispersion it has, and to a small degree

big discrepency, and after a little while more the AKM would take over again

famas has harsh falloff so it's more of a competition there, kinda

compared to FCAR it is really no competition.

[compact tundra]

I figured since the P90 is still slowly crawling up

[indigo nexus]

note that the curve from the P90's bloom is estimated based on a vague measurement.

[pale gust]

How is the FCAR compared to the rest? I mean I can see it's... More gradual. But I'm not sure what that exactly means there is no title for the left numbers so Idk what they mean

Wait a minute time to kill over range nvm I got it

[indigo nexus]

It measures seconds

[pale gust]

Ahh okay thank you

[indigo nexus]

maybe some day I will have interactive graphslop where the parameters can be tweaked in realtime and different weapons can be highlighted and compared under different assumptions

when that day comes, I will be unstoppable

now to get some for the rapid fire light weapons

[unkempt moss]

I didnt realize pike was so flat

[indigo nexus]

the nerf made it flatter as they kept its long range performance about identical

[unkempt moss]

Can you do these with the different weights of a single weapon, no 25% crit chance.

[compact tundra]

That's what the smaller lines are, tho for the 4 gun graph he dimmed them out, but for most graphs the faded lines are the lowest and highest damage rates

[indigo nexus]

"different weights of a single weapon"? I don't understand

the upper and lower lines give 0% and 100% crit chance data

[humble sparrow]

Does anyone know how much weapon xp is needed per weapon level?

[unkempt moss]

Not averaged against all classes.

I think they're called builds by Embark.

Id like to see them for all three builds but for a single weapon

The 25% crit chance doesn't really mean much to me. So just the raw data of crit vs body would be more helpful

Say i wanted to see a visual of m60 ttk on L/M/H. Broken down between body shots and critical.

[molten granite]

Which ar is better and why?

[unkempt moss]

SHAK, because it's on heavy.

[molten granite]

I want real answer

[unkempt moss]

That is real answer.

[sudden pewter]

It’s the truth

[serene glade]

Free thinkers when they need to free think

[molten granite]

Ok

Akm or fcar, and why?

[unkempt moss]

Are you wanting to know for medium?

Why not FAMAS?

[molten granite]

Yes

[serene glade]

Fcar kills lights more efficiently I'm pretty sure. Ak gets more bullets and slightly more forgiving. Pick whichever you wanna use. They are both hitscan and feel the exact same so just flip a coin

[molten granite]

Famas is different

[indigo nexus]

that would look like this, it just seems like a particularly not very useful visualisation (removing the 25% line would be slight extra work and there is no good reason to exclude it)

[sudden pewter]

Scales per level. (At first)
2-3 needs only 9,000 XP
4 needs 36,000
5 needs 54,000
6 jumps up horrendously to 162,000
But then 7 only needs 144,000
8 136,000
And then for whatever reason 9 needs 200,000
10 needs 360,000
Everything after that is 200,000 afaik

[molten granite]

Ok, other question. For a not very good player, its better to main 1 weapon(at least from same type), or its ok just swap them every time i want?

[unkempt moss]

I know, I was hoping to see them all on one graph with no 25% crit line. I'm trying to see the breakpoints for each class at different ranges. Its all good.

[indigo nexus]

ah ok

[serene glade]

Just pick whatever feels and looks cooler to you at first. You can swap, it's not gonna harm you negatively to play different things, especially with majority of weapons being hitscan

[molten granite]

Also, akm or fcar have better hipfire?

[serene glade]

From personal experience the fcar does, but I haven't used them in a couple seasons so it's not fresh on my mind

[grand turtle]

Fcar for sure

[indigo nexus]

can do it for other guns too, maybe at a higher range resolution

surprising that it worked first time

oh no, higher range resolution is annoying as it expects an int for several calculations

[unkempt moss]

Its all good. I was just curious how flexible the tool was.

I do a lot of work on TTRPGs, so tools like this would be nice for certain things. Especially if you can adjust for probability.

[compact tundra]

Wait you too?

[near scroll]

thank you!
i was scrolling the reddit and somebody argued the BFR's range was its biggest issue but i mentioned lewis being just as good if not better at range, good to know i'm factually correct 😎

[indigo nexus]

with a bit of work it would do whatever

[compact tundra]

Are we talking homebrew or custom system design

[unkempt moss]

Both.

[compact tundra]

Fucking huge, same here

[near scroll]

can i join as a homebrew goo gun artificer? 🙏

[unkempt moss]

Currently my main project is a custom system for Monster Hunter. But I have one for a fighting game RPG on the back burner, and I have a home brew concept for the finals using twilight 2k.

[indigo nexus]

still, this thing's whole complexity is that it takes into account many FINALS-specific mechanics, so for any other purpose there'd be no reason to use this system rather than make a new one

[unkempt moss]

Oh I figured. I just thought it was interesting and wanted to see more.

[compact tundra]

I have a custom system I've been working on since I was 15 (22 rn) but I've just been lazy and slow. I did dabble in a custom super hero ttrpg tho where you use cards drawn from a combat deck to use for fighting. Different super powers could let you effect the stack or effect your cards, like super speed meant you took your turn last and could move one card to anywhere in the stack

[unkempt moss]

My custom system is more simulation heavy. I tend to take a more module based approach so that it can increase or decrease complexity based on player preference. Monster Hunter is interesting in that it has two different combat systems in it.

My current focus is a trading and caravan system.

Googs is a huge fan of card systems in table tops.

[compact tundra]

Mine is more of just a general fantasy system. I wanted the freedom of roleplay like D&D 5e has but I wanted a more simplified and more engaging combat system. So I've mostly focused on making melee and ranged weapons as interesting as magic with probably middling effects, traversal is where I've kinda gotten hung up on and haven't worked on it much. I just find making rules for role play and exploration difficult without making things way overly complex, traversal is really hard for me cause it's hard to flesh out without muh random encounter

[compact tundra]

Sadly I never worked too much on the super hero one, it was more of a concept I came up with but never fleshed out. I'm pretty bad about actually working on my games cause most my time is taken by work, games, and friends, so I don't really work on my systems all that much

[unkempt moss]

I've come up with a pretty nuanced system for travel and exploration. But I do like a little more sim heavy play. The hard part about making travel is a lot of it is player preference.

[compact tundra]

How does your travel system work? Cause the only good ideas I've heard so far mostly use random encounters as a way of spicing up travel, rather than making the traversal itself engaging

[unkempt moss]

I use a modified hex crawl system. But the hex occurs at different resolutions based on what is going on. Investigations take place over maybe a dozen miles of hex, while overland travel occurs over hundreds of miles. The main thing is tracking time and resources for it.

I don't like fully random encounters. What I do is I'll plan encounters, say like 10, and place them within the hex almost like mine sweep. Then allow the players to freely explore a curated sandbox if that makes sense. That way it protects the verisimilitude of the world.

Travel takes place over days cut in to four sections. So they move how they want with the planned events in certain hex, plus I have "roaming encounters" that I roll for movement so they can happen a little more actively based on player actions.

I find with fully random tables, though they can be fun, can give a weird disjointed feeling to the encounters.

But you can increase or decrease that resolution of the hex crawl as needed.

[compact tundra]

That's fair, I thought about a hex crawl system but that becomes a lot of upkeep over time since you have to have a hexed map and can't erase it since you need to keep the same map for every time they travel

[unkempt moss]

I thought the same thing but thats why I'll zoom in and out on the world map and it kind of keeps the illusion of a cohesive world while still giving you the freedom to do what you want to plan. The world of Monster Hunter is so massive that I think it makes it easier. Consequences of mega flora and fauna I suppose.

Plus at the end of the day I'm a DM and rhe number one rule is the players want to play. So they will accept some level of disjoint to accommodate that.

[compact tundra]

Oh wait do you play over call? Or with a digital table top? cause all of my experience is in person pen and paper, so I usually base my system around the idea that everything has to be doable without digital tools

[unkempt moss]

I build everything I do with the idea of pen and paper as god intended.

[compact tundra]

Then how do you zoom in and out of the map?

[muted condor]

How many note keepers do you have in each party tho

[compact tundra]

Non, it's just my sorry ass that takes like 3 notes for a session

[unkempt moss]

I have a world map, and then I custom make maps based on each. I'd have to go in to more detail of how the journey system works for it to make sense. But since its a sandbox the players kind of decide what's happening and then I work with their plans to make events and stories.

[unkempt moss]

My wife is my avid notes taker.

Monster Hunter at its core is quest based. So that also makes it much easier.

Zooming in is figurative for meaning I'll make custom maps depending on what resolution I need.

[muted condor]

Damn

[compact tundra]

Oh fair, I still find that'd be too much upkeep for implementation in my system, I want to keep things as low maintenance as I can, but that makes sense since I'm comparing two vastly different systems

[unkempt moss]

Thats the beauty of custom making your own system

Your system is a reflection of your own taste as is mine. I love map making and do it for leisure. I assume your system is a conduit for your own creativity and interests.

[indigo nexus]

I have a "system" too,,.

It's simple really, it goes like this...

You cross me..? You get SQUASHED.

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. Sounds like a barbarian player, bud. Pretty based.

[muted condor]

My DM has started running Pathfinder and it’s actually been super fun

[unkempt moss]

How are you finding the crunch of pathfinder? Ive only read through the manual of 1e and 2e. Never played.

I think i would like to play Pathfinder but not DM. There's so much to it.

The Monster Manuals of Pathfinder are top tier.

[muted condor]

Nice change of pace from 5e. It really forces you to actually use all the skills available to you and work as a party because you can’t just have one guy with 25ac eat everything while the wizard one shots everything with Eldridge blast. The game uses way more damage types that bypass armor and make healing more important

[unkempt moss]

I love that. Its so much more engaging that way.

I wasn't a huge fan of 5e, and especially when they went to DnD One or whatever it's called.

[muted condor]

Also the classes are super cool. Im usually a martial class but Iv been playing a Oracle and having a tone of fun with the crazy spells

[unkempt moss]

What's going on in your campaign you're running?

I'm not running anything right now because I have a newborn so I'm living vicariously through you with this

[muted condor]

I’m a player but the dm is actually running two campaigns in the same world at the same time with each party on different sides of the war.

[unkempt moss]

That's badass

[muted condor]

I’m the only person playing in both campaigns which is really fun

I have the inside look of both sides

Right now one party is looking for a spear that can kill dragons and overthrow the current emperor and the other party is working as mercenaries for the emperor and going to secure an alliance with a different region

[unkempt moss]

That's so cool. How are you balancing your role as someone on both sides? Just rp your character in each im assuming?

[azure thistle]

oh my god the famas fire selector has been discovered everybody pray

[muted condor]

Yeah, I don’t have my characters connected at all right now but if one dies Iv made back ups related to the other for the fun of it. The DM wants to have the parties run into each other at some point and have one big season with everyone

[azure thistle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1q8ei7o/full_auto_4416_dps_famas_its_beautiful/

hopefully they get a hotfix out asap cuz holy shit

[muted condor]

Bro is posting weapon and gadget content in the hangout chat smh

[unkempt moss]

Unreal

[azure thistle]

my fault, I'll do better next time

[muted condor]

Mods, ban him for being off topic

[azure thistle]

I have brought great dishonor to my ancestors

[unkempt moss]

Just know I'll probably be expecting updates on your campaign now.

[azure thistle]

I shall fall on my sword and turn into coins

[muted condor]

I will forgive you this time

[azure thistle]

But can I forgive myself....

😔

[muted condor]

Also full auto is wild

[azure thistle]

yeah idk what happened

[muted condor]

I wonder if it works with other weapons

[azure thistle]

but I did notice for a while if you had heal beam and swapped back to famas or rev it would automatically shoot a single shot on rev or a burst on famas

[unkempt moss]

Well someone get that guy asking about ARs in here. There's an update.

[azure thistle]

i think it happened on 1887 too

[unkempt moss]

I noticed this on model last night

[muted condor]

The Famas is in fact m not burst fire anymore

[azure thistle]

yeah its super annoying

lore accurate famas is crazy

[unkempt moss]

As it should be

[azure thistle]

so wait if you swap off heal beam does it just auto dump the full mag?

i didnt know sig sauer made the famas

[muted condor]

Something big is probably going to happen this Saturday

[unkempt moss]

Awesome. Welp, im motivated to get to work on my rpg stuff. Thank you for that.

[azure thistle]

oh my god what if it works on pike

[unkempt moss]

It'll be decent again

[azure thistle]

real

[unkempt moss]

Can you imagine how scary getting mag dumped by a pike would be

[kindred wagon]

S

[azure thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/pulp-fiction-divine-intervention-missing-jules-vincent-gif-14292699834540537069

recoil would send that thing through the roof

[chilly granite]

brother the firerate is ass anywy, it's not limited yby the speed you clik

[unkempt moss]

Are you saying this based on the video were talking about or just saying it?

[azure thistle]

based on the video

[chilly granite]

I'm saying that the pikes firerate is bad, so triggering that glitch would probably be slow and shitty, whereas the famas has a crazy high firerate limited by the click limiter

[azure thistle]

honestly this full auto famas bug looks more like a detriment than something that can be abused

cuz it just dumps a whole mag and makes u reload

[unkempt moss]

I meant bow user

[chilly granite]

now that's an assumption, the glitch might override the firerate and be making ti shoot at the speed of heal beam, or something like that

but it looks like it's just firing one burst that doesn't stop basically

[azure thistle]

probably, like i said theres been a glitch for a while where if you swap off heal and equip certain guns they'll fire a single shot or burst

its annoying af its why i stopped using famas, it seems like embark somehow got rid of the failsafe that stops the gun from pulling a P320 in full auto

[chilly granite]

hahhaha

btw I did a load of testing nad the arrow appears to be 18cm wide

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus thanks for the graphs Im using them to win arghument on reddit ❤️

[indigo nexus]

I'm honoured

[heady snow]

💐🤦‍♂️🤔😂

[hidden kite]

.

.

[indigo nexus]

if this guy types a third dot...

[hidden kite]

i just want to be able to lfg man...

[indigo nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-worm-cat-worm-catworm-ai-generated-gif-11758626355945811640

[hidden kite]

.

[compact tundra]

Spam in the main chat, if you spam in the smaller chats like this it typically annoys people cause we have notifications on for this channel

[hidden kite]

okay my bad

[upper pelican]

pike 3 tap light pls

[compact tundra]

No

[peak monolith]

nerf CL-40

[compact tundra]

No

[serene glade]

cl-40 leak the light players it kills home addresses buff please

[unkempt moss]

I need more info on the bow STAT

[sudden pewter]

Didn’t it 3 tap in the past?

And it was so good basically all Mediums ran it. Like current era Repeater

[sacred hollow]

Can we get a speed boost type gadget for mediums, I feel there pretty good and control but it sucks to die and not have the speed to get to the cash before it reaching like half way completion, maybe like a stim type deal or even a rage gas effect where it makes you take a bit of damage in return for speed (mb for yap)

[shell sonnet]

Speed boost + melee would be insufferable

[sudden pewter]

Play Light.

[sacred hollow]

I do play light🥹, but I wanna be more of a support, and like I said maybe like rage gas where it does tick damage, mediums need for offensive love

[sudden pewter]

Gateway.

[unkempt moss]

Lights can already support better than mediums wtf

[sudden pewter]

Heavy needs a sniper!

[sacred hollow]

50cal😝

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/67-67-kid-edit-analog-horror-phonk-gif-3349401281762803381

[sacred hollow]

We only got h infuser every thing else is just movement support, med has more like healing and defense

[unkempt moss]

Better healing, nullifier, better vision, better destruction.

Great movement gadget.

Goo grenade for defense.

[sacred hollow]

Yea I guess, but I was thinking more class specific type, how about the same idea but for heavies?

[compact tundra]

I believe so yea

[sudden pewter]

Fuck no. Absolutely not

[shell sonnet]

I really dont have the emoji i want to post rn

[unkempt moss]

Vanish and glitch.

[sudden pewter]

One of the only things keeping Heavy in line is the native lack of mobility. We rely on Mediums to provide mobility for engagement opportunities or to reposition (Light with gateway also works but rarer)

[shell sonnet]

Hey unjust, where is your video of the heavy sword bug?

[sudden pewter]

Note that the only selfish mobility specs are on Light.

• Grapple
• Dash
  That’s because Lights small healthpool is offset by its mobility by design. This isn’t the case for Medium & Heavy.

[shell sonnet]

Pretty much that

(Thx btw)

[sudden pewter]

What the fuck is this

Horrifying

[compact tundra]

It is peak

[shell sonnet]

Speedboost heavy

[unkempt moss]

People would get really angry about heavy getting a speed boost. They already get called overpowered. I dont really see a way to implement it without it causing a bunch of problems. But its not out of the question.

[sudden pewter]

Disagreeing with me has marked you for death. The drones are inbound.

https://tenor.com/view/cat-worm-cat-worm-catworm-ai-generated-gif-11758626355945811640

[vague sorrel]

add propulsion grenades. will be crazy for movement.

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/poopman-poop-stain-homunculus-gif-5894943418330622711

[unkempt moss]

Heavy had propulsion goo for a bit. But they took it from us

[sudden pewter]

Embark hates fun

ESPORTS is vital to the future of the game btw

[shell sonnet]

Thats not the "jump, shoot floor+slide" thing, right?

[serene glade]

they should just remove the ability to play the game unless youre at a lan tournament

[shell sonnet]

Despite being vastly less important, casuals take up 99% of the games server capacity

[unkempt moss]

I'm talking about goosurfing back in the day

[unkempt moss]

Cater to the top 500 and that's all you'll be left with. Its a tale as old as time

[shell sonnet]

(Just to be sure, i was /s)

[unkempt moss]

I know

[mint creek]

Movement based Heavy s10 leaked?!

[swift cradle]

I just survived a match with 2 sniper lights on my team and made the final round... somehow.

Gotta love the matchmaking

[chilly granite]

I stand by rpg being movement option for heavy being good

.mostly because then heavies will use their rpg on themselves instead of me hahaha

[edgy estuary]

Yeah let them rpg jump if they want, let them waste it.

[wicked grove]

Glider specialization heavy 🔥

[chilly granite]

anyone who edits the wiki here? I'm testing the thermal bore building damage xp

ok so blowing up a zipline gives no xp

man adhd sucks it took me 4 attempts to remeber to actaully chekc how much xp i got from using my thermal bore exactly 1 time on a zipline

no xp for blowing up a box either

man the stikcer locatino on the thermal bore really, really sucks

you have so much side of the gun for a giant sticker but they put an itty bitty tiny sticker on the back of the gun instead

[brazen abyss]

what do you guys think about the new reapeter nerf?

[chilly granite]

it's a small nerf to the best repeater players but it's a non-issue for mid repeater players and half the problem with the repeater was that it was too easy for bad players to get kills with it imho

and it still shoots dead straight about 1/3rd the time when hipfiring and close to it the toher third of the time, so again, non-issue

bow can kill a repeater faster than the repeater can kill bow now so I don't care, all you sr84 and arn plebs can suffer

also medium guns should be crap and light should lose the op gadgets to medium, medium should be utility class and light should be dps

meidum shouldn't have mines, light should, makes no sense for the assualt rifle class to have mines when the sniper class doesn't

glitch trap to light, glitch nade to medium

that's the spiciest take I have in my possesion

idk how thermal bore works but it doesn't seem to gain xp for doing enviro damage, or at least not much, I think it maybe got 58xp for doing 800 enviro damage lsat round?

man I played point break against some pro player and I cracked a roof with thermal bore and dropped on the point, then I was gonna try to fight him after he killed my teammate and he peeked me using my own thermal bore hole and I felt agresively outplayed

1600 hp wall chunk blown up via thermal bore should equal 66xp

110xp

170xp this time doing 1600 damage

[sonic zephyr]

kind of a pet-peeve but i wish they would let us choose the zoom on our own instead of binding them to select sights

[chilly granite]

also let us do true 1x sights, I dont want fov zoom on the m11

I prefer a smaller fov for normal gameplay than the meta 100fov lol, which then makes even the "1x" zoom scopes super duper zoomy

I've complained to embark support and pointed out that the shitty scope on the sr84 is a bad way to balance it

since you can just run 45fov on the cb and be even more zoom'd than a sr84 when adsing with the looking glass optic, meanwhile the sr84 basically has to be played on 100fov to not be an unenjoyable experience

crosshair/reticle options are just kinda bad for no good reason? I don't see a logical reason to limit the selection of crosshairs and optics so much

Like, I love a delta point reticle/triangle reticle like the quickspark or looking glass, but the 68% fov zoom is brutal when I prefer to play on around 85fov

that's a fov of 58 which is the same as the pike optic with 100fov afaik

the 1x with 85 fov is more zoomed than the 2x with 100fov

and the bow ads is 3x, so it's fov 58 with 100fov iirc, so you want to use the full draw as your 1x scope which doesn't fade out pings and teammates which is super anoiyng, but also, it's 0.9x fov so if oyu use 100fov it's very unzoomed compared to 1x zoom on other weapons

90fov vs 78fov on a m11

so swapping from bow > ads weapon means you really, really want to increase your fov, but that throws your ads sensitivity off badly because it has fov scaling on ads

normalizing for a 74fov drawn bow, you'd want 95fov for a 1x scope and your sensitivity won't even be the same

Also, I am extremely unsure but I am slightly suspicous that the focal length sensistivity scaling doesn't work on the bow's 90% fov zoom on full draw

for sure the zoom sensitivty multiplier doesnt work

[chilly granite]

Ok I think it's 0.25x damage dealt to buildings

4800 damage, 170xp total, 50 xp for firing and 48 * 2.5 = 120

0.025x

this also makes sense because the breach charge is 2.5x damage dealt to players, so 0.025x building enviro daamge is semi-logical

[quasi valve]

Yo

[median mural]

W

W

W

[simple snow]

Best light loadout rn?

[stiff vine]

grapple dagger

[young pewter]

with flashbang, smoke, and thermal bore

[shell hornet]

i think that sh100 and m11 are the two best light weapons rn and if you use any others you are holding yourself back

[wind folio]

And v9s

[unkempt moss]

The double barrel? I could see the m11.

[shell hornet]

oh yea defo

[shell hornet]

its super op, being able to secure most kills with two shots, if you have good dash movement you can get easy team wipes

[compact tundra]

For self reliability/solo queue you have a strong argument, but for team focused play and queuing up with others then the 93R, V9s, ARN, and XP-54 are usually better

[compact tundra]

It becomes less effective the better the enemies get

[shell hornet]

depends on comp, on lmh you should definitely use sh100

[shell hornet]

yea but you can still use it in high elo

[compact tundra]

It's certainly viable but isn't widely used or considered meta, it makes you to close range to really be effective with your small health pool, light in higher elos is usually a support that uses their gadgets to help out their team, and you can't really do that if your hunting kills. That's why the longer ranged weapons typically work better, cause you can hit angles from a distance and better support your team

[serene glade]

I hate "op" so much

[noble saddle]

The FCAR has so much depth compared to other medium weapons it feels like

Skill ceiling on it is high

Basically gotta be able to know on the fly when it's optimal to ads vs hipfire and also when it's optimal to tap vs burst and full auto and also make moment to moment changes based on how the guy youre shooting at changes their position and their health

AKM by comparison I just full auto at everything I see lmao

[unkempt moss]

Or you could just use the ARN/V9S and not need to have dash mechanics, be close to them, or have particularly good aim.

[noble saddle]

I think the ARN is decently difficult compared to other light guns

[shell hornet]

the way i best find to use sh is to play centered around your team and pick the opportunities you get in fights to leave your team for a short period of time to chase up and find those kills or even just get that damage in that will make the fight more centered to your team, sh100 works well even without offensive gadgets

[unkempt moss]

The SH is fun and powerful for sure, but I wouldn't say its more effective than some of the top picks. Theyre just more versatile and easier to use.

[shell hornet]

its definitely overlooked but sh100 can be incredibly disruptive when used properly

definitely the best weapon for solo play

[unkempt moss]

Nah. Dagger is by far the best solo play weapon.

[noble saddle]

I think weapons that can punish bad positioning that hard are always going to be good in pub lobbies until high Elo where teams are able to consistently watch each other

The only reason why I wouldn't think the double barrel would be ideal for all games is because you do have to make yourself vulnerable to get in its range where more consistent weapons like the ARN, V9S etc you can play from safe distances and force people to come to you. Much more consistent

Nearly every meta weapon in this game is characterized by being strong at mid to long ranges and "decent enough" up close

[unkempt moss]

Nah.

[compact tundra]

That I might can agree with, solo queue loadouts rarely follow the meta since it's more about self reliance than team play, kinda how solo queue heavies best loadout is C&S lewis gun

[unkempt moss]

Do people not build for synergy even in solo queue or is it just lights?

[noble saddle]

in solo especially you want to pick weapons that require the least commitment for the most results.

The double barrel is high damage but it requires a lot of commitment

[compact tundra]

Synergy is important but rally having a generally good weapon that's self reliable is pretty good, just cause you have no clue what your team is running or if they'll back you up

[unkempt moss]

You can see exactly what your team is running

I AM the back up.