💣┇weapons-gadgets

[compact tundra]

For the love of God I need a Minecraft fishing rod winch claw skin

Oh btw here you go

[chilly granite]

AGGH I WAS GONNA KILL TWO LIGHTS WIHT A BARRLE BUT MY FAT ARROW HIT THE LIGHT NOT THE BARREL

my util usage really helping actually, glitch + flash really help get more kills and bully mediums

my nullifier usage is ass thouhg, I'm griefing myself with it half the time lol

[idle roost]

When is the damn thermal vision gonna be done istg

[bright tendon]

.

[chilly granite]

I really hate how mcuh the ARN overshadows the xp45

the xp is fractionally better in some situations, and way way worse in most situations

I feel like the arn is fine with 1 less damage per shot

[sudden pewter]

I can’t take it anymore

[chilly granite]

maybe buff the arn falloff to compensate so it's as good at range, but slightly worse up close where it's currently 90% of an xp but with way better long range performance

[chilly granite]

?

[chilly granite]

the gap in dps is small, and the falloff curve on the xp54 is harsh, so the arn out dps's it at around 26 meters according to my math, whihc is pretty damn crazy

right now the range at which the xp54 is the best choice is 1) small and 2) an awkward distance where basically nothing ever happens and 3) overshadowed by QOL advantages of teh ARN (giant ass mag)

like while the xp54 is kinda a better all rounder, the arns mag being so much bigger just makes up for what it loses to the xp54 in dps

I prefer teh xp54, I've practiced way more with the xp54, but I do better with the arn because it's just way easier to use wtih no downside

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/ed-hyena-gif-18356484

[chilly granite]

do u guys think that gadgets should be self-reloading? I feel like having to reload single charge/shot gadgets such as rpg/nullifier is just kinda bad quality of life without significantly impacting balance

[sudden pewter]

Real talk bro I’m watching my kingdom crumble around me

Hate to see it 😔

[chilly granite]

What do you think about removing the falloff cap so that if you use an M11/v9s at 100m it does 0 damage

[muted condor]

General chat but cool is dying

[sudden pewter]

First they ruin the game and now the discord 💀

[muted condor]

The west has fallen

[chilly granite]

Your amusing reactinons are only eculourhaging me to post my worst takes

I do think falloff curves are probably a little too sharp for most weapons, and the floor is a little too high for most weapons too though

I feel like the M11 would be fine with it's falloff being 7.5 to 20 meters and it would give the xp a lil more room to breath I think

[unkempt moss]

All good things must come to an end.

[unkempt moss]

Part of their balancing ability comes from having to reload certain things. I do think taking Dart should either work like nullifier or googun. Having a magazine to reload and an arbitrary ammo limit is so odd.

So it kind of needs to pick a lane.

[unkempt moss]

Im curious if they have data on what the average range of engagement for non-melee is. That would make it a lot easier to shift fall off windows

[unkempt moss]

They need to remove it and just give thermal optics.

[near scroll]

i think the consensus on dash is misguided, other two specs are definitely weaker, grapple is aight and invis needs either strong buffs which'd make it oppressive or a rework (spy tf2 invis watch rework when embarf), but imo dash is overtuned rn. light is the class that's supposed to be punished the hardest due to how fast they die, but dash gives you 3 charges with low cd that essentially allow you to negate mistakes due to how quickly and precisely you can reposition with up to 3 dash charges

any light frontlining/brawling playstyle should be high risk cause you can blow up so quick once you get caught, but with dash you can avoid all that would blow you up instantly and you're almost uncatchable

for a more supportive playstyle (staying on the edge of teamfights, joining mates to take 2v1s, h+ infuser, gate shananigans and all), grapple is still very good in my opinion

[unkempt moss]

Oh I'm not saying I agree with the sentiment. I personally find cloak to be strongest if you play light.

[analog pewter]

i think the problem is light is always going to have a really hard time w/o a strong movement mixup. grapple isn't a mixup so much as a positioning tool and cloak is impossible to make suffice as a movement mixup without it becoming awful to play against. I think they should just nerf dash and then add a new movement option to light's base kit to elevate all specs

[near scroll]

i never liked cloak ngl but i understand. do you still think it's strongest after the cloak nerfs? ive personally found it significantly easier to see post nerfs

[unkempt moss]

I've found that I really like a support style light. So I don't play very agro on dagger. It's more support team and pick opportunities to get kills and make moves.

[near scroll]

well my point is that we should be thinking about how frontline/brawl lights are balanced. as you said imo theres no way to make it work without a strong/borderline opressive movement option

i personally think brawl light is kinda bad for the game but im no messiah

[near scroll]

oh you play dagger? lol
i duo with a goo gunner and ive played a lot of grapple xp/lh1 with him and it works great imo

[unkempt moss]

I main googun heavy, but I've been so bored lately that dagger is my break from the monotony.

[analog pewter]

it's a little extreme but my solution would be to nerf dash to 2 charges, slightly slower recharge, and then give light the ability to wall jump once while airborne (having to touch the ground before being able to wall jump again)

this gives every light spec a soft movement mixup + vertical mobility. it being a wall jump rather than a double jump is so that the light has to keep near a surface in order to use it, maintaining their weakness vs splash weapons like the CL-40 and RPG, and also making their positioning a little more predictable since they can only jump some direction away from the wall rather than omnidirectionally

[near scroll]

i assumed u did with ur username lol, im more of a grapplesword guy if im not playing goo gun 😎

[unkempt moss]

I love grapple but I want to play it very aggressively. So I usually play grapple double barrel.

This is my first season playing light to any large extent. Dagger is fun though

[near scroll]

i do play it aggro with sword and its fun but for a true aggro/brawl sword i have to play dash

grapplesword is more of a pick/assassin build

[near scroll]

i wouldnt mind a double jump if it didnt allow for mid air redirects like scout tf2

[unkempt moss]

I tried sword today and immediately went back to dagger. Nothing hits that high of the back stab on light for me.

[near scroll]

but lunge > qm > anim cancel > swing > qm on mediums is crack :O

also lunge jump mobility go weeeeeeeeeee

[analog pewter]

hence wall jump. I'd also make it so jumping against your momentum only subtracts from it, rather than redirecting it. so from low speed you could wall jump either way but if you're going fast one direction you cant just flip that

[near scroll]

wall jump basekit is an interesting solution but it'd set the precedent that classes can have perks yknow, like some guy'd argue how about giving heavy passive explosion resistances or smth idk

[unkempt moss]

The feeling of setting up a play and watching it happen exactly how you envision it on dagger, then being rewarded with the dopamine nuke of the back stab. That's my crack.

[analog pewter]

i mean light already has faster movement speed
id also entertain arguments for additions to the other classes' base kits but they'd need to be very well argued....

[near scroll]

yeah but speed/health ratio is a thing all classes share yknow what i mean, wall jump would be a separate passive ability and only light'd have one

regardless i think we can all agree dash should be nerfed 🤝

[unkempt moss]

I think I'd rather see weapon passives than general. Something to make the weapon feel more its own instead of a general passive that will benefit only part of the roster.

[near scroll]

i thought about that before but ngl only "good" ideas that came to mind were passive movespeed increase for medium's melees (this was before riot shield and dual blades buff) but idk if they need that now

[analog pewter]

medium passive is reviving teammates faster

[unkempt moss]

I'm sure a list of good ones could be put together. It would just take some thought, observation, and then tuning.

Something like environmental burn resistance on flame thrower.

[near scroll]

that's fair

well now i want passive explosion resistance on sword :)

[unkempt moss]

Let's not get crazy.

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-emoji-gif-25749073

not negation just like 33% reduction or smth haha

[unkempt moss]

What if you got something like you keep momentum more easily or friction reduction on lunge

[near scroll]

i mean, just lunge jump? otherwise it just sounds like a lunge distance buff

i dont see what'd be different yknow

[unkempt moss]

I don't play sword so you'll have to pardon that. But can you charge lunge while grappling

[teal hawk]

Interesting stuff

[unkempt moss]

And can you hold lunge while sliding

In my head, the lunge retaining momentum would allow for like jump pad and grapple shenanigans.

Or like coming off of a zipline holding lunge retaining some of that movement.

[near scroll]

you can already slide and grapple while holding jump, and lunging on a pad already gives a boost like dash does

also if you release lunge mid air no movement impulse is applied to you so yes you can have the lunge hitbox with the movement of grapple for instance

[unkempt moss]

I've thought about if lunge would go in whatever direction you were pointed so you could go straight up or down with it. But we don't need some devil may cry shit going on

[near scroll]

yeah i think thats a bit too much LOL

[unkempt moss]

Okay. That's kind of interesting.

[near scroll]

ngl i think most melees are well balanced rn, its just that guns are significantly stronger, more versatile, and less restrictive

only change id make to sword is doubling the angle on the camera lock when you lunge. rn its 40 degrees so 20 on each side, id make it 80 so 40 on each side

[near scroll]

sword's cool man 😎

[unkempt moss]

Do you ever use dual blades?

[near scroll]

yes, they're fun but sad that deflect is still janky

[unkempt moss]

How would you feel about dual blades on light

Obviously they fix the deflect in this scenario

[near scroll]

uhhh im really not sure ngl. the current design fits medium better cause its a sustain based melee weapon, you wanna stick on your enemy and combo them or walk up with deflect, trading health so you can then finish with the swings, whereas light melee weapons are hit and run

and with a smaller health pool deflect isnt as good ig

also deflect is supposed to help gap close kinda but light doesnt struggle with gap closing

so yea idk 🤷‍♂️

[unkempt moss]

Just curious. I like to think of all the classes having blocking melee and think about what that would look like in practice.

I don't think lights would give up sword for Dual though.

[near scroll]

interesting thought. id assume light would be parry style short windows of near invulnerability, medium would be passive/low commitment as it is now with riot and dual blades but not sure how heavy could carve himself a niche. maybe very strong damage reduction with high availability but it kills your movement? might be annoying to play against in a cashout scenario tho

[near scroll]

maybe the m1 spammers would but the lunge gamers def wouldnt

[unkempt moss]

I'm not sure what the split is

The lunge players seem to be the most vocal.

[near scroll]

they're the ones that have been maining sword for a while, all melee weapons can w+m1 combo, only sword can lunge yknow

[unkempt moss]

I feel like ive seen the hammer lunge at me a lot.

[wide stratus]

Definitely not lunging

[unkempt moss]

So the talk around here is adding something to the reload button for sword. What would you add?

[near scroll]

haha, well all melees have a "lunge" system to boost you towards your target when you swing but only sword has the lunge attack

[unkempt moss]

Its more of a jump scare on hammer. The acceleration is insane.

It is nice when you're playing hammer though

[teal hawk]

Yeah thats also true on the double swords

[near scroll]

i think all melees should have unique actions on reload. it's a good healthy way to make melees deeper and more versatile imo

not sure what i'd give sword though. i think a defensive option but not sure if a block is appropriate, maybe a dodge thingy would be better, like an attack that also gives you a backwards dash or smth

[near scroll]

in my experience, dual blades and riot shield have the most noticeable lunges on swings. though sledge m1 also has a good one

[unkempt moss]

Its actually intense enough on riot that it'll get you out of a goolock.

[near scroll]

sword lunge also doesnt care about goo lock which pisses me off lol

[unkempt moss]

Ive basically learned to double tap goolock on melee weapons if they are coming at you.

[near scroll]

yeah thats a nice way to go about it

[unkempt moss]

Do you think that melee assist lunge is good?

[near scroll]

like the lunge on sledge m1 we were talking about? ig at lower levels of play it's nice and it has moments but id rather have +5% passive movespeed but no lunge personally

[unkempt moss]

Where are you getting that 5% from? Is that like enough to keep it fair between the weights or something?

[near scroll]

well i'd want it so melee lights can outrun gun lights and stuff, but i dont want melee heavy moving at medium speed yknow

point is if both gun and melee user of same class just hold W, melee user will catch up

[unkempt moss]

That's fair. I didn't know if someone number crunched it.

[near scroll]

i dont know if someone did, i definitely didnt. it was more about the concept than the values yknow

[unkempt moss]

For sure, I got it now.

Just looking for ideas to steal for my patch notes. Thanks for all the input.

[near scroll]

haha no worries, feel free to ask more questions i like discussing game balance and game design concepts :)

[wide stratus]

Add gauntlets that can block melee attacks

Or like a parry system

[indigo nexus]

No!!!

It would be janky and almost fundamentally mess up the balance of melee with respect to other weapons

[wide stratus]

No it would be a great thing to counter stupid melees

[sonic zephyr]

For honor still exists if you want a melee focused game

[serene glade]

[wide stratus]

Or mad max

[serene glade]

Oy vey, the melee weapons are ruining the video game for us hitscan using people. I was promised to not be hit by a sledgehammer 3000 years ago

[shell sonnet]

or chivalry 2

[cerulean furnace]

Just run away, it's what counters me most when I play Dblafes

[near scroll]

stop chasing me you greedy goblin, you're accomplishing nothing! 😩

[wide stratus]

It's free to not be antisemitic

[near scroll]

it's free to not be a weirdo too, and yet

[wide stratus]

When have I been weird

[serene glade]

It's also free to be antisemitic so what's the trade off?

[near scroll]

just now

[wide stratus]

You're just a loser

[serene glade]

Lmao

[wide stratus]

How💀

"goo is my god" 💀💀💀

[serene glade]

Better than Satan is my god tbh 💀

Red rank after that post 😈

[near scroll]

u told a guy to not be antisemitic cause he jested
how is that not weird? also sorry for havig taste and a good username 😎

[wide stratus]

It's not weird to be against hatred based on certain things.

[serene glade]

Woah buddy, I asked for an Israel flag in game feedback before. Crazy how fast you recoil instead of taking a joke. Just the let the goyim toss a little jokes every once in awhile

[wide stratus]

It wasn't a funny joke. No one laughed.

[near scroll]

this is correct but why would you tell someone to not be antisemitic unless they were? and if they aren't, then it's weird to tell them that

[wide stratus]

What he said WAS antisemitic. Are you seriously gonna argue that it wasn't 😂

[serene glade]

Bigman, only SpongeBob is a big guy. Please let us goyim get to more serious matters like sledgehammer and dual blades

[near scroll]

is "oy vey" an antisemitic term i'm not aware of? i see no other thing that could be antisemitic in his message

[wide stratus]

Did you not see the promised 3000 years ago? And yes oy vey is used to be antisemitic against Jews. If you didn't know that, keep quiet.

[serene glade]

Typical, trying to silence the goyim

[wide stratus]

Trying to silence the nations?

[near scroll]

a quick google search reported that oy vey originates from a jewish expression to show suffering? it doesnt mention that it has been used antisemitically

and yeah ngl i dont know about the promised 3000 years ago, sorry im not very well versed on jewish culture

[unkempt moss]

Where is this conversation even happening? It doesnt let me click the reply

[wide stratus]

I know you're not which is why idk why you're even commenting in the first place...? Oy vey was originally used for that yes but nowadays antisemites use it to make fun of Jews. It's very simple to grasp and again idk why you're commenting when you don't know anything about it

[unkempt moss]

To understand I would assume. He doesnt seem adversarial at all.

[wide stratus]

You don't make assumptions when someone who KNOWS about it is telling you about it.

[near scroll]

this is a place of public speech, i was misinformed and thus misinterpreted the situation which i apologize for, especially if you were offended

[unkempt moss]

wepsNgadg is so back. I love it.

[near scroll]

thats the thing tho, who says you do know? its likely you're just a troll saying bs cuz internet 🤷‍♂️

[unkempt moss]

Buncha alley cats cuh

[serene glade]

[unkempt moss]

Nama in a hijab? I didnt know

[wide stratus]

I'm not getting angry or anything. I just explained to you that it was indeed antisemitic

[fickle charm]

I feel like they increased the skill floor significantly for peeling oranges. This bastard has like a cm of fluff i need to dig through

[wide stratus]

I'm Jewish... That alone makes me know about it 🤣

And if you don't believe me idc, it's antisemitism regardless

[unkempt moss]

So you can't say Oy Vey?

[near scroll]

you did not say you were so how could i know you did know better than me?

[fleet imp]

https://tenor.com/view/hypnospace-transgender-trans-rights-skeleton-gif-21237962

[unkempt moss]

What about Goyim? Can you say that?

[wide stratus]

Let's say I wasn't Jewish, it's not difficult to know that was antisemitic...

[brave dew]

https://tenor.com/view/1984-george-orwell-george-orwell-1984-1984-chips-1984-ruffles-gif-7144052804264359069

[unkempt moss]

Whats the difference between a goyim and a gentile? I've always wondered.

[wide stratus]

Goy is a nation

[cerulean furnace]

I gotta have u dead, I WILL die after by ur teammates!

Positioning what's that?

[unkempt moss]

Goy is what nation?

[wide stratus]

Goy means nation

[near scroll]

i mean i didnt know about either oy vey nor the 3000 years thing as i'm not jewish nor know jewish people

if you're not in the circle of concerned people, why would you know about this?

[near scroll]

too real, dual blades infuses me with greed

[wide stratus]

You're telling me you haven't seen a single meme of "this was promised to him 300 years ago"??

[unkempt moss]

Oh its supposed to be 300 years ago. Was it a slavery thjng?

[near scroll]

if i have i didnt check the comments to see someone saying it was antisemitic

[wide stratus]

No it's 3000

[near scroll]

so no i wasnt aware

[wide stratus]

Obviously it's not gonna say that cuz they're the ones being antisemitic. A racist won't go around saying they're saying racist things

[unkempt moss]

Some of them do.

[near scroll]

well someone like you couldve stumbled upon the meme and called it out in the comments

[unkempt moss]

Im looking up Goy stuff now.

[wide stratus]

I have lots of times

[unkempt moss]

Goyim is a person from Goy

[serene glade]

A little goy research project if you will

[wide stratus]

Goy directly translates to nation.

[cerulean furnace]

Feels great when ur popping off and playing smart, but it sure is hard to do that

Playing smart melee is real powerful tho

[unkempt moss]

So calling someone a nation is like a fat joke? Like you're the size of a nation of people

Is it like the antisemitic yo mama joke

[wide stratus]

No ppl think goy means non Jew but it doesn't

[unkempt moss]

Because I'm really not okay with body shaming

[muted condor]

Goy slop

[unkempt moss]

Ayo

What is goy slop??

[serene glade]

That's just another name for the quesarito

[sudden pewter]

Grats on red

Soon you will be green. And hate will become your strength.

[muted condor]

It’s like soy slop but with goo instead

[unkempt moss]

Oh thank Jesus the alley cats are awake.

[serene glade]

I feel my power growing

[unkempt moss]

I thought it was just going to be bow user soloing the channel forever

[muted condor]

The Hatorade will be chugged

[serene glade]

If you say his name 3 times he'll appear, so chill on that

[unkempt moss]

Who? Big guy?

[wide stratus]

I'm always here

No need for magic spells

[serene glade]

🏹 user, please don't summon him

[unkempt moss]

Which of the sponsors would you say represents the Jewish cultures in THE FINALS?

[wide stratus]

All of them

[muted condor]

Catter
Catter
Catter

[unkempt moss]

Why all of them?

[wide stratus]

Cuz they all make a lot of money

[unkempt moss]

Isn't Dissun like the evil power company and holtow scamming people out of their money. That seems kind of antisemitic.

[wide stratus]

I can make jokes cuz I am jewish

[unkempt moss]

Ohhh thats why googs is saying that. He's Jewish.

[muted condor]

Alfa Acta is just pure blooded American 🦅 🔥 🔥 🔥

[unkempt moss]

I always wonder why he calls me rabbi but it all makes sense. I taught him how to play GooGun.

[wide stratus]

If you had read the chat you would've known already

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/thefinals-minigun-season-6-the-finals-coined-gif-9581155447877553437

I want more Alfa Acta skins

[serene glade]

Can a goopa goop

[unkempt moss]

Are there different types of jews? I just saw you attacking him so I didnt know if there was like bad blood between people.

[wide stratus]

Attacking???

[muted condor]

I’m guessing it’s kinda like how Americans treat Californians

[unkempt moss]

That makes a lot of sense!

[wide stratus]

There's types of Jews yes but we're all Jewish. It's a matter of our origin

[muted condor]

Basically lesser beings btw

[unkempt moss]

Is he a "californian" jew

[wide stratus]

Nah not at all

[unkempt moss]

Like the other states dont like him.

[unkempt moss]

They why persecute your fellow jew like that?

[muted condor]

Not even Californians like Californians

[wide stratus]

Fellow Jew? That guy isn't Jewish...

[unkempt moss]

Googs? Yes he is.

[sudden pewter]

Junior is a real one

Desperately need AA Armor.

[wide stratus]

Sure he is buddy

[unkempt moss]

Thats what he told me

[wide stratus]

Yea so he doesn't come across as antisemitic...

[unkempt moss]

I would hope he wouldn't lie to me. Were friends

[serene glade]

Shalom

[unkempt moss]

Hes been my best friend since meeting on here

[muted condor]

Omg it’s John Hebrew!

[wide stratus]

What does the original word mean

[indigo nexus]

yooo we getting our jewish friends in?
@dull wharf

[unkempt moss]

Googs if you're antisemantic then we can't be friends

[wide stratus]

Yooo bob

[dull wharf]

Im literally on my way back from army sortings

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/jude-dance-tornado-gif-26509069

[wide stratus]

Achla gever ma itcha

[dull wharf]

Ma omer gever

[unkempt moss]

Achla gave you whaaaat

[serene glade]

I've listened to weird als pretty fly for a rabbi so checkmate

[dull wharf]

Baderech hazara menionim lektzin kesher gdoodi

[wide stratus]

BAyzeh tafkid atah?

[wide stratus]

Hahahaha okay that was funny

[dull wharf]

Kita yud bet

[wide stratus]

Good luck 🤞

[wide stratus]

Ah bruh you not even in the army yet 😭good luck man

[dull wharf]

Hamadim shel tzahal kol kach nohim

[dull wharf]

Are you?

[wide stratus]

I finished a year ago

[muted condor]

Bro is gonna be on the front line in Greenland next month 🙏

[dull wharf]

School or the army

[unkempt moss]

They aren't even using the letters. It just reads like doodle Bob.

[wide stratus]

They're either the best or the worst

I finished my army service a year ago

[dull wharf]

Good stuff

[wide stratus]

זיין

[dull wharf]

Where did you serve

[muted condor]

Geometry dash reference

[unkempt moss]

Goy minoy!

[wide stratus]

I started in kalbanoot and ended in kibooi

[dull wharf]

Goy

[unkempt moss]

So he just called me a nation?

[dull wharf]

More like GoyKing

[unkempt moss]

There's only one king in my life, bud. He gave his life for my sins.

[dull wharf]

Not my thing, I wanted to go for intel but my profile is too high and im too fuckig based

[muted condor]

Gut him and make the family watch for insulting you

[unkempt moss]

JESUS IS KING

[wide stratus]

Just beg to retake it and fail on purpose

[dull wharf]

We'll see

[wide stratus]

Jesus was Jewish

[serene glade]

lmao

[muted condor]

Jesus was a black queen 💅

[unkempt moss]

He is the Son of God above all.

[muted condor]

He a baddie

[unkempt moss]

So true.

[dull wharf]

@indigo nexus did you accept jesus christ into your heart

[indigo nexus]

no

[unkempt moss]

Just know he loves you.

[dull wharf]

And there you have it.

[indigo nexus]

one cannot really know something they do not believe to be the case

[compact tundra]

Bro I just woke up the fuck is happening in here, why are we bringing the Jewish and Christian people together to bully solar

[serene glade]

unity

[muted condor]

You think Jesus had a absolute dump truck?

He was the perfect human after all

[unkempt moss]

I dont know after Bow User solo'd the channel everyone just needed to get it out of their system. Some one started losing it on googs about saying Oy Vey and the dam gave out.

[unkempt moss]

Its the dumpiest

[indigo nexus]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1047619412900982874/1047620606075617310/Spore_GIF_2022-11-23_16-20-18.gif

[serene glade]

when is spore 2

[muted condor]

If bow user spent half as much time playing with a weapon as he spends over annualizing completely irrelevant numbers and buzz words he’d probably improve

[unkempt moss]

Factual. Brother has his yapping phd

[indigo nexus]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1005862343051321545/1075541900649574450/Spore_GIF_2023-02-15_23-18-50.gif

[serene glade]

People reminisce over the creature stage, but tribal and civilization was the goat

[unkempt moss]

Figures the antisemite would love the eugenics video game

[serene glade]

Lmfao

[compact tundra]

You higher mammal, can you read?

[near scroll]

hello how may i help you? lol

[near scroll]

playing smart with guns is still better tho 😭

[compact tundra]

I kinda had a question since you also played sword. If we were to make sword's reload button a decent damage stab attack with no lunge abilities so that we could lower the lunges damage where it no longer 3 shots heavies (as to discourage lunge spam which many non sword mains hate) and also lower the M1 damage so dash swinging isn't as viable as it is now, do you think that would make the weapon overall healthier and give us the ability to either remove clamp or greatly increase its degree.

The numbers I had in mind were

M2 Lunge 115
M1 Swing 73
Reload stab 95

[sudden pewter]

This is cope

[near scroll]

oh i thought you were insulting me lmao, lemme read real quick

[compact tundra]

Oh no that's a penguins of Madagascar reference

[sudden pewter]

Insulting people is my job.

[muted condor]

Oh look at you fancy pants you can read. Fucking nerds with their letter and shit

[near scroll]

at least your job isn't being insufferable

[sudden pewter]

Nah that’s covered by the Lights!

[near scroll]

sorry bro i learned to read before i dropped out of school

[serene glade]

i just learned that letters can come together to form words. sentences is my next weeks lesson plan and im getting nervous for that

[compact tundra]

Don't worry, no one uses those anyways

[muted condor]

All good we can’t choose what we’re born into even if it’s a liter*te family

[unkempt moss]

True

[muted condor]

I’m surrounded by goo munchers right now

[serene glade]

better than fart sniffas (defib users)

[muted condor]

Real

I hate defibs

[unkempt moss]

Defibs are good for the game bro

[cerulean furnace]

Yes but Melee is fun :>

[fickle charm]

I need a WWE type announcer whenever I equip charge n slam

[near scroll]

i don't see when it would be used except as a very niche finisher, cause quick melee is already pretty integral to sword combos, like for instance you suggested making lunge not 3 shot heavies, but then you just need to add a quick melee in there somewhere to make 3 lunges kill again

ngl discussing balance is difficult cause the finals being quite the difficult game, the balance between casual/"low-skill" players and comp/"high-skill" players is so different
i understand frustrations with swords for begginers and in casual modes but for it to be viable in high-ish elo ranked it would need significant buffs

if it were up to me i'd make nearly all TTKs longer due to the nature of cashout and needing to run around the map a shit ton, and said maps having a lot of open areas and routes where you can just die and or get put in a very difficult to win scenario

also would incentivize good util usage. but i'm sure many people would hate that

[unkempt moss]

Ill forever die on the hill of not everything needs to be viable in top ranks. Just make it fun and engaging.

[muted condor]

So melee needs a change

[unkempt moss]

If Hugo can make top 6 of Evo then sword users can make it work.

[near scroll]

that's not a good comparaison ngl :/

[unkempt moss]

Yes. I have it outlined in GOUF

[near scroll]

i do believe there should be as few unviable options as possible cause to me unviable means you straight up cannot make it work

especially in a game as sandbox-y and dynamic as THE FINALS, everything should have a use case, and if you leverage your other tools well, you should be able to make everything work

[unkempt moss]

Sure it is. If people can make these bottom ass characters work on a daily basis in a game that cares zero about balance, they can probably make it work in the finals.

[near scroll]

reason why i said that is FGs are 1v1s and significantly more matchup based

idk about the Hugo run but if he didn't run into any zoners in his bracket or smth well yeah he's not a bad character

[unkempt moss]

Everything in the finals is balance as a 1v1 for the most part anyway.

[near scroll]

that's so wrong lol, you should know that as a goo gun player

the balance of goo gun being very strong in 1v1s is that teamplay shuts it down

[unkempt moss]

Absolutely the guns are balanced in a vacuum like that. Outside of maybe the launchers?

[near scroll]

oh

well yeah if you're only talking about weapon DPS and TTK values it's alright

[compact tundra]

That's fair, so for a bit of context my dilemma with sword is that if we lower the M1 damage (which will make sword far more tolerable at lower levels) then we have to raise the lunge damage to compensate, which means mediums can be 2 lunged again, the reload button stab is meant to be a bridge so we can keep the lunge damage lower but also lower the swing damage to make the weapon function better then now if in skilled hands, but worse then now if in the hands of someone who doesn't really know combos

[unkempt moss]

That's why we have breakpoints. Its also why they dont make sense for the finals.

[near scroll]

but then you consider circumstances like dagger needing backstab to instakill and then you see it's shit

[compact tundra]

Also this was the change in its entirety

On first read it might seem like a big nerf but in execution I think it could work well. But what do you guys think, this is the first real draft of the idea

Sword Reload Button Rework Idea

A few things to remember, QMs can animation cancel so they aren't effected by the end lag of a hit. Also all combos are listed in order by attack from highest damage to lowest damage. So remember in execution they'd be mixed up to be more effective, especially QM's since they can be thrown out during a hits end lag to lower kill time

The new stab attack uses your reload button and does 95 damage a hit. It has end lag comparable to the lunge attack but comes out quickly and has no charge up time

Remove multi hit

Buff Aim Clamp to 120°, this prevents 360's but basically lets you aim at anyone on your screen so you can hit combos more effectively.
If you were just stabbing the stab would have a fire rate of ~75rpm

L / Lunge 115dmg
S / Swing 73dmg
ST / Stab 95dmg
QM / Quick Melee 40dmg
TD / Tracking Dart 5dmg

Light

Combos
L + QM = 155
ST + S = 168
S + S + QM = 186
S + S + TD = 151

Medium

Combos
L + L + Qm = 270
L + ST + QM = 250
S + S + S + QM = 259
ST + ST + S = 263

Heavy

Combos
L + L + L + QM = 385
L + L + L + TD = 350
L + L + ST + QM = 365
S + S + S + S + S = 365
S + S + S + S + QM + QM = 372
ST + ST + ST + ST = 380

[unkempt moss]

Trust me, I would be balancing the game far differently if I was in charge but I think most people would say that here. Even the white names in feedback

[near scroll]

only thing i'd do about sword rn is nerf swing dmg back to what it was and double cam lock angle from 40 to 80 (you only have half of the cone on each side of where you released your lunge, so 40 degrees of wiggle room on either side of the lunge post buff)

[near scroll]

is "they" referring to the launchers in this sentence?

[compact tundra]

The only problem I have with that is it makes mediums far harder to kill and the existence of p90 already makes sword difficult against mediums

[unkempt moss]

No, its referring to breakpoints. I would never take launchers out.

[near scroll]

ah okay

[near scroll]

idk i find mediums to be a very fair matchup for sword, the time to kill is predictable and they don't have too many tricks up their sleeves unlike light dash/grapple/null or heavy winch/cns/goo gun

[near scroll]

wait so what's your point about breakpoints not working in the finals? im confused

[serene glade]

the addition of healing for everyone was a weird choice with their emphasis on breakpoints

[compact tundra]

Yea I would agree but for me since they took away the L + S + QM on mediums it makes them difficult to kill especially if they can hit headshots. Lights are hard because of clamp and buffing that would mostly fix the issue, and heavies being 3 lunges just makes them kinda easy unless on like spear or flamethrower, or if they can beam heads

[near scroll]

that's true but mostly for emitter imo, at least with infuser you can kinda safely assume the guy you lit up is now back to full so breakpoints still apply lol

[serene glade]

crazy how light gets the one thats easiest to use with the most impact

[near scroll]

i do lunge > qm > anim cancel (i think anim cancel got nerfed so its not as important) > swing > qm on mediums and it's really fun

dash light with a gun is an instant loss if they have more than 3 neurons

heavies are easy to kill in a vacuum but their tools make them extremely dangerous to approach, get winched as you're lunging past? u dead lol (kinda same goes for c&s and goo gun)

[near scroll]

heal beam is still easier to use

like yea managing the juice is a thing but u gotta aim with infuser lol, and ppl dont like standing still in this game

[unkempt moss]

Balancing like that, imo of course, feels like shit for the user and adds unnecessary clunk. Healing and gadgets all throw off breakpoints so balancing around them is odd. It makes heavy gun feel weak, and light guns feel over tunes.

Lights need to be able to do 350 damage in .5 seconds, but the heavies need to be doing about 150 in .5 seconds. Which feels awful for the medium and heavy guns because the entire game is balanced around the 150 breakpoint.

So you get things like the medium revolver doing 148. Which makes the revolver feel unrewarding at times as a marksman weapon.

Or things like the MGL need 3.05 shots to kill a medium.

[near scroll]

why is revolver not allowed to have range btw?

[sudden pewter]

Repeater

[compact tundra]

Yea that's fair, I usually use the L + QM + S + QM on mediums too, it's just for me kinda hard to hit and a little slow to come out. And for heavy I usually don't have too many issues with them but then again I'm a super slippery grapple sword so I just kinda get away and even if winched I'm kinda hard to shoot cause I practice my CQC movement fairly regularly

[near scroll]

like it turns from a 357 to a 22 past 15 meters xd

[unkempt moss]

No idea. It drives me nuts that the revolver falls off so heavily and the V9S is a DMR

[near scroll]

curse you peter

[near scroll]

i play grapplesword too :D

[serene glade]

i still feel like with it tho you can miss over half the bullets with it, stay out of any fire coming on to the heavy and make an insane impact on a fight. healing for all is just a dumb change and have no idea what their vision is for the game anymore

[near scroll]

ngl were it up to me i'd make light the support class lol, so i don't mind it

[unkempt moss]

So we balance around lights at the 150 range, then give them the most escape, and cherry on top they heal the fastest naturally.

[compact tundra]

It's just so fun and sometimes I switch it up and play support light to throw off enemies and just overall be more effective on my team and grapple works so well with that

[serene glade]

thats fine with me, but there is just no direction with the classes it feels like anymore

[unkempt moss]

Then we have to listen to lights cry about how persecuted by embark they are.

[near scroll]

it's true since the introduction of the healing gadgets i see it mentioned less but i'm still pissed that the healing per second is the same across all classes, like heavy already takes longer to start healing

[near scroll]

rn light's direction is glass cannon but dash makes it so good lights never get punished for their mistakes/greedy plays
i love embark :)

[unkempt moss]

Takes longer to start and fully heal. The light feels like they can go to 1 and back three times in the time it takes heavy to get back once. Its not that fast, but you know what I mean.

[serene glade]

i love getting them one HP, then they dash away, and are somehow already full HP when i hunt them down, and my heavy ass is still sitting at 200 HP from the previous engagement

[near scroll]

agreed. i always disliked invis and stopped playing dash a while ago, grapple is just so peak for the supportive light that i play. i don't care for the brawling dash m11, give me the supportive grapple xp 😎

[sudden pewter]

Straight up. Repeater is a ranged revolver. (With worse RoF and more ammo albeit)

[unkempt moss]

The repeater is necessary for bullying lights. Long live the repeater.

[muted condor]

Revolver has more aura so it’s better

[sudden pewter]

But have you considered Light is the weakest archetype and you deserve to die for playing Heavy?

[near scroll]

ranged? that bitch two taps lights close range, unlike revolver xd

[muted condor]

If I can’t spin the weapon every second not shooting I don’t care about it

[serene glade]

yeah thats true, apparently winch deletes them from across the map so ill just run winch on my mgl to even out the playing field

[near scroll]

they're just different weapons but with the values assigned to each rn peter just outshines HARD

[noble saddle]

Breach charge is the most fun gadget

It feels wrong that a single light can bring down a whole building if they set the charges properly lol but it feels so right also

[sudden pewter]

They deserve it for getting cocky.

[unkempt moss]

Let the boy 1v1 the juggernaut

[serene glade]

takes 7 mgl shots to break concrete

[near scroll]

how do you guys feel about "skill weapons", like revolver and bow are theoretically cracked weapons if you land only headshots
do you like this style of gun design?

[serene glade]

destruction role class btw

[near scroll]

yea idk why breach isn't available to heavy

[noble saddle]

MGL needs to be looked at but the playerbase it has doesn't want it touched lol

[muted condor]

Counter point

[compact tundra]

Breach charge is peak, you have better stalling than heavy, use this power well

[near scroll]

or thermal bore for that matter since embark refuses to rework rpg to be 2 shots 50 dmg

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/revolver-ocelot-gaming-mgs-guns-gif-17353618

[serene glade]

i love it, but i also am not afraid of learning new things like people are

[unkempt moss]

They have their place. Should be a good mix of marksman weapons and consistent weapons.

[sudden pewter]

Because that’s STUPID and you STINK

[near scroll]

that's not something you can put a number on my friend. value wise peter is better, but everything else wise? that's not quantifiable? oohhh my

[noble saddle]

You're part of the reason why this gun never gets buffed lmao none of y'all want it to be good 😂

[muted condor]

This guy fucks

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-my-goodness-gracious-oh-my-goodness-cat-funny-funny-cat-gif-13420237915563187242

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/jiggle-does-it-jiggle-do-it-jiggle-jiggle-cat-meme-tiktok-jiggle-meme-gif-2503182221699182412

[serene glade]

i love the mgl, but i want it buffed/reworked?

[sudden pewter]

I love the MGL, but I want it buffed/reworked!

[unkempt moss]

No you dont. You just want to three shot mediums dweeb

[serene glade]

1 damage buff for now embark, please just a little shmeckle of your good graces

[near scroll]

do you think TF2 loose cannon would be too good in THE FINALS? (in case you don't know, TF2 loose cannon is a grenade launcher where you can pre-cook the nades' fuse timer before firing them by holding m1)

[unkempt moss]

Oh no

[sudden pewter]

No.

[near scroll]

what, im right

[serene glade]

TF2 POSTING HIT THE DECK

[unkempt moss]

He said tf2

[near scroll]

tf2 loose cannon for mgl rework and tf2 spy invis watch for cloaking device

[serene glade]

teamfight tactics has sequel?

[unkempt moss]

Its about to get very high school football in here

[sudden pewter]

He’s gunna make me tap the sign

[near scroll]

are you all sleeper agents and your codeword is tf2 or? wtf is going on

[near scroll]

ri*t games mentioned 🤮

[compact tundra]

You're not far off

[unkempt moss]

When you invoke TF2 it gets all glory days in here. They start posting videos of them using the gongledorf to hit epic clips.

Then it transitions in to Titanfall 2.

[near scroll]

i mean fair enough tf2 is peak

[serene glade]

bro 2xko will kill fighting games, cmon bro 2xko is gonna be it. riot will save fighting games

[sudden pewter]

Lights saying they want the Skibidi Stab completely forgetting these are two completely separate games that play totally differently

[near scroll]

but yea to get back to the point :
TF2 loose cannon for mgl rework
TF2 invis watch for cloaking device rework

[unkempt moss]

I'm checking out. Skibidi stab was my breakpoint

[sudden pewter]

B-But (thing I want) works in X Game!!!!1!2! Surely it’ll translate 1:1 to the finals!!!!

YOU JUST HATE FUN

[near scroll]

i absolutely hate that people are naming techs the fucking skibidi tech like bro 😭

[sudden pewter]

See:

• Ults
• Stamina System
• Secondary Weapons
• Directional Melee Swings

[near scroll]

i played league from end of S4 to S7 or 8 i cant rember and never looked back

[serene glade]

ive never touched league thankfully

[near scroll]

riot games think they're saviours of the video game industry when all they know is free to play model, big profit, and hiring talented people (but mismanaging them xd)

[daring lance]

@hollow marten thank you so much 🩷

[near scroll]

it's the kinda game that's nice to have played but yeah, i've had my dose for a lifetime lol

[sudden pewter]

China

[near scroll]

also yes

[noble saddle]

Crazy that they launched a team game with 8 characters lol and thought that would be enough

[serene glade]

riot thought they would pull the japanese crowd away from street fighter with this 2xko slop

[sudden pewter]

The only good thing LoL brings is a quarantine for dumb slop fed idiots and Ahri.

[near scroll]

weird considering most of riot's vocal supporters are US/EU

[serene glade]

crazy how the game doesnt even look fun to play, and the 2 player gimmick doesnt even look enjoyable

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-gif-1878760417600646737

[noble saddle]

Depends if you like fighting games, lots of fighting game players are enjoying the gameplay of it I just don't think it really appeals at all to casuals because of its lack of content

[near scroll]

(u right tho, it's like overwatch lol, only good thing to come out of it is the p*rn)

[serene glade]

also no motion inputs becoming standard breaks my heart

[muted condor]

I hate fighting games

I suck at them

[serene glade]

based

[muted condor]

If I’m bad at something that means it’s dog shit and not worth effort

[noble saddle]

This is why the finals is goated, it will never be tainted by the "fanart" 🫵😎

[sudden pewter]

Overwatch isn’t even good for that, the only baddie is Mercy

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/mhm-mhmm-sure-thing-sure-doubt-gif-22192499

[sudden pewter]

Monkeys Paw Curls

[hollow marten]

@daring lance Yw

[muted condor]

You sure about that

[near scroll]

gramps wants to fiddle with his stick does he?

[near scroll]

fighting games is my spectator sports, i've played them and kinda understand but am bad so i just watch content about them and enjoy that lol

[compact tundra]

I'm goo'ning to Scotty rn so this is just bs

[muted condor]

I’m going to make a 200 chapter fan fic about the CEOs now despite you

[noble saddle]

The finals 3 4 but it's all just that guy

[sudden pewter]

Fanfic about Junior releasing the Hades 2.0 home defense system to the Heavy archetype

[near scroll]

make sofia a dommy mommy pls

[serene glade]

lemme just fiddle my stick a little bit im begging

[sudden pewter]

Sofia bathes in it. It’s canon

[noble saddle]

I am already addicted to ospuze I don't have the time to develop other addictions that other gaming communities might have

[near scroll]

alright gramps let's take you back to bed and plug 3rd strike in okay? :)

[serene glade]

does scotty beat june, is that canon

[near scroll]

opposite, june lowk a freak

[serene glade]

thank you, im gonna go fly around as twelve right now

[muted condor]

Ima make thirst traps of Vaiiya daddy

[muted condor]

Will do

[sudden pewter]

Scotty is an addict and frankly I believe June is an AI (in universe)

[serene glade]

scottys got a thing for clankers, i see i see

[sudden pewter]

Scotty drinks Ospuze so at least we know he’s a human, although Ursa also drank Ospuze and he’s a weird fucking cyborg thing

[muted condor]

Sal Scoria X June is gonna be crazy

[muted condor]

Gonna make me act up posting that

[sudden pewter]

Isn’t Sal the only CEO with a dedicated cosmetic in the game? We literally hoist him around on our backs

[noble saddle]

His presence is so comforting.

Do you carry him on your back in game like he's your boyfriend

[noble saddle]

Is ariad technically the ceo of CNS or nah

[muted condor]

Of course

Ooooooo Ariana x Sal

[noble saddle]

This is how the plot actually ends they just fall in love with each other

Vaiiya vs CNS?

Nah

Vaiiya x CNS ❤️

[muted condor]

Yep

[noble saddle]

We as one

[sudden pewter]

No? Ariad is an Operative or Contestant iirc

Same with Ursa and MultiCo.

[noble saddle]

I hate that the hoodie ariad wears can only have the glitch effect. I hope that they change it eventually so the "glitch" look is just an effect you can apply and I can get the hoodie and puffer without it cause it looks so sick but doesn't match anything

[sudden pewter]

Hell I don’t think CNS even has a central leadership figure, probably a collective

[sudden pewter]

This but the ugly ass anime set from S3 and the disgusting skin that yucky gamers use

[noble saddle]

I think CNS is implied to be Volpe before it was bought out by MultiCo

[muted condor]

I don’t think so. Volpe is the one that makes the VR equipment if I remember correctly

[sudden pewter]

Volpe didn’t work on The Finals(show) they develop VR gea

Volpes business model has no overlap with hacking in universe afaik

[muted condor]

Yeah they have the muscle mommy

[sudden pewter]

Dude Volpe is such a shit sponsor I totally forgot their OG theme was sports

They had the boxer set from S1 and I totally forgor

[noble saddle]

Lmao the anime skin is so bad but it's also really funny

I personally would never use it because I have taste, but it always cracks me up when I see an anime skin player in a lobby esp because half the time their emotes are some stupid sh** like the guitar slam or whatever

[sudden pewter]

#🔥┇drip-check is a solid 70% anime and I don’t have the heart to be mean and tell them they don’t have drip, they just pissed their pants

[muted condor]

The greatest anime skin Iv seen was a guy why made it glow bright yellow somehow and had a bunch of OSPUZ gear

Bro was irradiated by OSPUZ

[sudden pewter]

The Simpson

[serene glade]

wish i had a screenshot of my fella. might be the drippiest dude in the game. he slams hard liquor and then takes his daughter to the live showing of her favorite show orf

[compact tundra]

God once I get the matching flamethrower, Cerberus, and sword skin I'm gonna make matching skins for all my mains

[sudden pewter]

Erm, you can only “main” one archetype
☝️ 🤓
I think what you meant was “I’m going to make matching sets for all my contestants”

[muted condor]

Step on me- I mean check the drip

[noble saddle]

We are going way off topic now but my whole goal with outfit and weapon selection is I try to make my contestants feel like in-universe "heroes" with cohesive loadouts and distinct playstyles.

Unconventional way to enjoy the game that way but to me the entire reason I got into the finals is because it felt like it was everything that was missing from hero shooters for me, and the only thing it was missing were the heroes lol.

[sudden pewter]

Embark considers the game a “Hero Builder” so whatever floats

[noble saddle]

This game was made for me

[compact tundra]

No, I refuse your normalcy, I main all archetypes

[muted condor]

I love my dress up simulator with a it’s little side mini game

[serene glade]

we need more oversized tshirts that looks like it gives heavy a beer gut

[noble saddle]

It's so satisfying when you can come up with a unique loadout and playstyle that's not meta but still able to pub stomp because it has cohesion

[compact tundra]

We really need a dress up game mode. I get it's really far from what the game is but God dammit you can't have this much customization and not let me play dress up against other people

[sudden pewter]

That’s because you gotta put down $$$

[noble saddle]

I would like them to add a photo mode where I could pose my contestants against each other in the games different maps for wallpapers/avatars/reddit karma/etc

[sudden pewter]

Imagine a poor lvl 15 being put into the Barbie gamemode against lvl 80’s

[compact tundra]

Na I think if it's a game mode then it should be free range

[unkempt moss]

They dont have the balls to give us fatter heavy

[muted condor]

Skill issue

[sudden pewter]

Bare Feet Cosmetic LTM reward

[noble saddle]

People complain about the instant replay setting but I have it on because I like to see how cool I looked before I went out 😂

[compact tundra]

Please omg I need it. I'm on console so I can't even get modeling apps

[sudden pewter]

When I’m running on glass with my dawgs out I wanna hear my Heavy plappers on the glass as I run

On the topic of audio I’m still getting silent Heavies. Audio needs work

[serene glade]

"eeeeerrrhhhmmm, wouldnt that make your model bigger and easier to hit"
id like to see them try

[noble saddle]

I think the application would be super simple, have a few backdrops from different maps, have different presets for environment destruction, have a few poses for each weapon and gadget and then just let me place contestants and explosions etc as I see fit

Plenty of games have done stuff like this before. I feel like the level of customization this game has it's a huge miss that it doesn't have a mode like this.

Plus it would probably sell more cosmetics cause lord knows this would attract a whole new community of players that exclusively put together photo mode stuff

[sudden pewter]

We def need a freecam mode where we can pause time and take screenies

I stole a piece and imagine if we could do this with green screen ingame

Also Mommy 🥵

[compact tundra]

Honestly I'd have so much fun like making game scenarios with all my characters. Like a still frame of a chaotic ass break point match or something like that

[compact tundra]

🫵 Snow bunny lover

[muted condor]

You are not immune to snow bunny mind control

[sudden pewter]

Naw I hate that stuff

[muted condor]

Also what’s up with the White Woman bundles they been adding?

[sudden pewter]

Winter Fall white woman weather

[noble saddle]

Yeah and for me because I do the whole "hero creation" my constants are meant to have visual cohesion placed next to each other as if they are on a team together.

I never actually get to see it in action though and id like to be able to 😂

[serene glade]

mind control to make you forget that its another week without balance changes

[muted condor]

The pumpkin spice and most recent winter bundle are literally just white women

Imagine team wiping someone and they ask to speak to your manager

[sudden pewter]

You plonk down Chuck and she does the “Food Dance” (tm)

[compact tundra]

This is my beloved muscle mommy, 2 seasons and counting 🥵

[noble saddle]

As much as I like the extensive female customization in the game I really hope embark gives us some male options at some point 🤣

They're doing better with this new Asian guy they added this battle pass but no new voices for male characters is a crime women have 6 to pick from

Men:

• Regular Guy
• Pirate/Old Guy
• Ursa (this is actually a huge step forward when they added this cause now several villain fits can feel much more menacing)

Women:

• Laid Back Girl
• Peppy Girl
• Odilia
• Valkarya
• Dede
• Devourer

I feel like there may be favorites over there at embark.

[sudden pewter]

Embark proper fishnets and my life is yours

[sudden pewter]

We only have a single default male voice and I’m still peeved

[noble saddle]

I just want a calmer, deeper sounding one.

The one we have is fine but it's nasally and isn't super versatile imo

[young pewter]

you forgot whatever this is

you said voices but whatever I hate reading

[muted condor]

Give me a Morgan Freeman voice

[muted condor]

Evil Elvis be like “will not fake my death today”

[noble saddle]

The lack of male voices is my #1 complaint

The lack of good legendary revolver skins other than horizon hammer is my second

Everything else about the game is perfect

[sudden pewter]

Ursa is cool because when my healslut support medium revives me he says “Daddies home” and that’s funny

[young pewter]

oscar icon series skin

[muted condor]

I should start using that line at the club

[noble saddle]

I don't think the male voice fits the heavy build very well more than anything

Also it's jarring to have all my male contestants have the same voice lmao

[lost bronze]

you dont need that many good legendary skins for revolver

[muted condor]

That’s why you give all you males a female voice

[lost bronze]

when you have good animations lmao, i would say model needs another spinny skin

[young pewter]

remove voice ai bad bad bad oh no ai ahhhhh

[sudden pewter]

We only have 3 strictly male options afaik, (Ariad might have one but I’m 33matches from unlocking)

[noble saddle]

I would really fw an eclipse shade skin for the revolver more than anything

Surely one will come out eventually, revolver is too popular to never get one

[sudden pewter]

Waiting for an Eclipse Shade Lewis

I wish I knew what metric they used to decide what weapon gets skins because Lewis and Revolver were out since launch and P90 got it first before either

[muted condor]

We need a new medium character model for my boy Catter

[lost bronze]

eclipse shade or dough wrangler? i dont know whcih to buy

[sudden pewter]

I just want bigger cans bro, some cosmetics give the male model larger breasts

[lost bronze]

hell no

[sudden pewter]

I’m not asking to see double D’s when I look down I just want my CatGirl Maid to female femininely across the arena

[muted condor]

I’m personally a supporter of the itty bitty comity but get Catter his medium buff already

[lost bronze]

hdelp pls

[sudden pewter]

I’m not opposed to smaller ones but it’s strange that only F Heavy gets big naturals

[noble saddle]

Ariad kinda has one, it's the default guy voice with a filter over it and has unique "hype" lines

They're all banger lines though. I have his skin underneath my CNS robot contestant and it's the hardest shit ever combined with the boombox head.

"Multico calls us hackers, I call us liberators!" 🎶 🎶 🎶

[sudden pewter]

So it’s not a unique voice then. (Has to be in the voice menu to count)

[fleet imp]

Whichever one you like better idk man

[wide stratus]

Cheeseburger gun when?

[noble saddle]

It's not a new voice, its the default guy voice with additional lines and a filter

They're banger additional lines though. I wish I could choose the ariad voice on its own that includes the CNS voice lines, or alternatively if some CNS head cosmetics would just add the ariad voice lines with no filter

[sudden pewter]

I wish the holiday voice lines were available via toggle or something

Because throwing an Örf Grenade and hearing a super girly “I put the Boo in Boom!” from my Medium makes me smile

[noble saddle]

I think that I may be going crazy but I think there are other items that have secret voice lines I just noticed this the other day so I have to go back and check

But I have a contestant who uses the baseball grenade and baseball top from the S4 pass, and istg the other day when I used the "hype" expression he said "Nice Catch!"

[fleet imp]

The santa hat gives christmas voicelines

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/563351597317488661/1274466083813982318/catexplodion.gif

[noble saddle]

We gotta compile all the items we can find that give unique voice lines, it seems to be mostly headwear but I'm wondering if some weapon skins and clothing options also give new voice lines

[muted condor]

Sal actually gives you voice lines when you gesture and emot

[sudden pewter]

He’s considered a “pet” on the back slot so that makes sense

[muted condor]

I was actually very disappointed when I found out the charm doesn’t actually passive aggressively judge you when ever you get a kill

“Is this the best the arena produces now?”
“I hope that’s not the best you can offer.”
“Passable”

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, would be cool if we got more lively charms

[fleet imp]

It should talk shit if you use a lame ass weapon like BFR or Repeater

[sudden pewter]

Can anyone translate this?

From what I can glean:

• Wants meta to shift
• Wants weapon attachments

(I don’t think English is his strong suit but he messaged me directly and I’m trying to answer his questions)

[fleet imp]

He thinks the meta has been stale for 9 seasons and that they should adjust atleast 2 gadgets in the meta loadouts

[sudden pewter]

That’s pretty sensible

[muted condor]

Would be nice if they fixed their game when a weapon became to prevalent. They meta had be basically the same for the last few seasons making every match feel repetitive fighting in the same buildings and loadouts. Only a few of the 37 weapons ever being used.

[sudden pewter]

Not sure I agree with nerfing viable weapons rather than overperformers (he plays Light so his definition of OP is in question) but can anyone disagree that the “meta” is stale? Figured that was common knowledge

[indigo nexus]

that depends entirely on what "stale" means

it doesn't get changed much per season, so if that makes it stale then yes

[sudden pewter]

Right

SA is super prevalent in high elo Heavy gameplay, but isn’t as common in lower elo. Does that mean it warrants a nerf because high elo Heavy is “stale”?

[muted condor]

I do kinda get where he’s coming from. It’d be nice for some other weapons that have never been top picks to be up there and I’m guessing they are a none native speaker that has learned English through the internet

[sudden pewter]

That’s my assumption

[kindred wagon]

Hello shahs zie sis sisveceyzisbdidoendzywowbdye eievdie is due sysysye dishevel ueheduchehe disk vdid rosnrcsuci jeveidbr eisidvr eowveie rusa viene degrickece doebthdienr f

[sonic zephyr]

i wouldnt be a fan of attachments because this games weapons all have a very distinct set of properties. so attachments would essentially be no-brainers.

close-range weapons take the laser
long range weapons take the grip
shotguns take either the long barrel or also laser

list goes on. Attachments would very much fall victim to optimisation the same way the rest of the sandbox has

[sudden pewter]

Balance is already an issue with Embark, adding more factors to weapon balance would be worse overall for the health of the game

This isn’t battlefield.

[burnt juniper]

Best gun for medium??

[compact tundra]

Dual blades

[sudden pewter]

He said GUN GOOBER!!!1!1!1!

[sudden pewter]

Repeater. 🙂

[compact tundra]

It can shoot

[sudden pewter]

Nuh uh

[serene glade]

2-2 on self proclaimed high ranked players responding to the bait post

[compact tundra]

Also I think cream mis-translated a bit. So I'll just rewrite knights words in better English

The first sentence is a bit nonsensical likely due to how their primary language formats their wording but the rest is easy. I'll still attempt the first sentence tho

"Would we know if the game was fixed since only a few weapons are prevalent anyways, the meta has barely changed over the past few seasons and all matches feel the same, fighting the same build over and over, with maybe one or two modifications, 37+ weapons in the game and only around a dozen are used and even then it's just the same six or seven meta weapons in tournaments"

[sudden pewter]

Mind, prior conversation was around Lights SR-84 and how he didn’t understand why it’s a hybrid hitscan/projectile weapon.

[sonic zephyr]

i think the main issue is the fact that embarks tries to finetune already fine weapons / gadgets while stuff, that needs genuine love is left to rot

[sudden pewter]

The only hybrid in the game btw, because the KS23 doesn’t count as it’s not a marksman rifle.

[sudden pewter]

ESPORTS IS A VITAL PART OF THE FINALS MOVING FORWARD

[sonic zephyr]

its like they are racist but instead of hating certain ethnic groups they're just lazy when it comes to balancing

[compact tundra]

Maybe he was saying even if it was full hit scan we wouldn't notice anyways because of how rigid the meta is

[sudden pewter]

Idk

[compact tundra]

Also for context I don't know any language besides English. I just work with and live around a lot of people with broken English so I'm used to understanding it

[sudden pewter]

I’m used to foreign inflicted accents but when it comes to text I’m unsteady

[compact tundra]

I work with a lot of people with broken English so text and talking I'm good with. And those last two are pretty easy to understand tho so I don't really see a need to fix their grammar

[sudden pewter]

I only provided them for context

[compact tundra]

That's what I figured I just was kinda mentioning that just In case you were asking me to. But yea I guess he's just mad that the sniper is hybrid and used the fact that making it full hit scan wouldn't even change anything outside of powershift because we're still gonna see the same meta weapons anyways

[sudden pewter]

I get wanting things to change, as long as it isn’t yet another “the game isn’t balanced around my favorite weapon and I’m mad about it”

Because a hitscan sniper would be fucking stupid, and unfortunately he couldn’t see that

[compact tundra]

I honestly don't get the hate for the hybrid sniper, it seems pretty fair to me and how often are you 70m+ anyways in this game

[sudden pewter]

The hybrid nature keeps it balanced because at its “effective range” there’s very few other weapons beyond yet another sniper that can effectively contest it

I brought up Powershift (because that’s where it’s most prevalent) and the second message was his response

[cunning slate]

why can't the MGL just have an arming distance instead of the bounce gimmick it has rn?

[compact tundra]

Yea fair, I don't get the hate, where besides powershift are you 70m+ from your enemy and not being useless, like even kyoto it's hard as hell to get any alien that far of the point

[serene glade]

Bounce gimmick is badass, I think it would be cool someone suggested to be able to cook the shots

[deep karma]

The Sniper hate sort of comes from when you're outside of hitscan range and then you're sort of "guessing" to make hits land if they are strafing well, while M and H at that range will often still beam you relatively quickly due to the low health pool.

There's an implicit expectation that the Sniper should win at those ranges but it often loses.

[cunning slate]

to make them go farther, or remove the distance?

[sudden pewter]

Bouncing sets it apart from Mediums GL and allows the Heavy to deal damage to enemies without LoS.

[serene glade]

Be able to explode close range by cooking it, which would make it not spammable to cook but give you a slightly better time combatting people in your face.

Also gives you use of fighting people on angled rooftops more confidently

[cunning slate]

bouncing's good and all, I just think having a distance advantage or more varied bounce path via a fuse would make MGL better some how.'

it'll still bounce, just not only once.

[sudden pewter]

It already has a distance advantage?

[serene glade]

There's just so many times where you can't engage at all. For example a building in sys horizon where they can sit on the support beams of the roof. Literally untouchable. So just being able to threaten with a little damage is nice.

[compact tundra]

An idea I've had but I don't know how it'd work in implementation is that you could control where the grenade bounced with your cross hair, so you could shoot the grenade and then flick your crosshair to your feet to make it bounce backwards towards you. But I don't think this would go well in implementation

[cunning slate]

i meant throwing nades at a destroyed building 40m or so away doesn't feel so difficult to defend or clear out.

[compact tundra]

Maybe wherever you're looking is where the grenade will bounce to

[cunning slate]

i'd rather it bounce to or at enemies.

[compact tundra]

In that case you'd just look at the enemy

[sudden pewter]

I’d rather the MGL have its downsides maintained to offset its strengths (being able to spam nades safely is very strong)

[serene glade]

The mgl still deserves the weakness of someone in your face so I think being able to spam the shots and whipping where it goes is still too much. Being able to cook the frag shots let's you fight suspended structures, lights dashing at you just a tiny bit better

[sudden pewter]

Having Highground on an MGL user should put him at a disadvantage, if they had fuses that would be nullified

[serene glade]

But since youre spending time cooking it's just poke damage, you still need to get in position to be a threat

[sudden pewter]

I’d like to see the TF2 treatment where they can keep the bounce but if the grenade itself makes contact with an enemy it should detonate on impact if nothing else.

[serene glade]

Lemme cook a mgl shot and then cancel immediately into charge and slam to delete a light even faster

[cunning slate]

that WAS my plan B.

[sudden pewter]

I do like that if I catch out an MGL user in an open area they’re forced to shoot the floor because it HAS to bounce before it detonates, I also understand feeling helpless when dived with the MGL.

[serene glade]

I think it just removes the helplessness while leaving it at a disadvantage which is good. But embark will ignore the mgl and give the repeater a 3 damage nerf next patch

[sudden pewter]

MGL rework is low priority. ESPORTS IS A VITAL PART OF THE FINALS MOVING FORWARD

All of their CM’s should have that phrase tattooed upon their skin.

[serene glade]

Mgl had 0 usage in our super professional lawn chair Esports event so we will stay away from it

[sudden pewter]

Sorry, we can’t make any balance changes because we’ll “shake up the meta” and there’s another TGM in 10 months

[serene glade]

We are running drops for the event, please watch, please watch

[sudden pewter]

Please gift subscriptions for this cool hat guys we need to prove to our shareholders this is a good idea or Xi Xinping will execute half the staff

[serene glade]

How do they even sell more Esports to shareholders. There's no way it's profitable

[sudden pewter]

“Guys what if we added x20 $12 Bundles with cosmetics themed around the competing teams!!!” - John Embark

[serene glade]

I'm pretty sure a percentage of that goes to the Esports orgs too

[sudden pewter]

We can offset the costs by making them super easy texture swaps!

[serene glade]

Geniuses at embark

Apex just added hoverboards in the game, and we get a silenced pistol range buff

[sudden pewter]

I don’t want The Finals to become Apex but I know given enough time and the nefarious influence of the Chinese it’s going to happen eventually. Enshitificstion is a real ever encroaching threat.

[serene glade]

I don't want it to be apex but I mean how are they adding more outlandish and testing stupid ideas more than finals

[compact tundra]

That makes me so sad, I fucking hate apex and hate the idea that they're having more goofy ideas rn than the finals

[muted condor]

Even more reasons not to buy the recycled cosmetics

[serene glade]

The only decent cosmetic is the TSM shirt because it recycles the default finals T-shirt that makes heavy look fatter (still not buying anything Esports)

[compact tundra]

I bought a few of them cause I really like them or their colors matched sets I already had. But outside of that they're not really worth it

[vivid quartz]

How’s sledge hammer ranking this season ?

[compact tundra]

I forget people who don't talk in here regularly think this is the weapons and gadgets chat room

[compact tundra]

Best of the melees probably but still just kinda ok overall, certainly not bad tho

[unkempt moss]

All heavy weapons except for spear rank in S tier this season.

[unkempt moss]

BombKing update incoming trust. I've been speaking directly to Harada.

[serene glade]

The only way to talk to harada is through donating to vtubers streams so he can hear. That's brave of you

[unkempt moss]

Anything for the king

[muted condor]

They don’t know it’s actually the general chat but cool

[sudden pewter]

Built on the corpse of its betters

[wraith orchid]

Absolutely horid opinion, Spear is the only S tier deserving weapon, as it starts with an S

[torn grove]

cause i just came back yesterday what are the light meta guns and gadgets?

[wraith orchid]

But yeah, it's alright, especially since dome wall and bubble are meta, and sledge doesn't care about it (though the winch it's usually paired with does, so be careful)

[unkempt moss]

Oh its the spear players that drop it to D. The weapon is S tier.

[compact tundra]

Genuinely, I played apex from season 0 to around season 10ish. I took a break from season 1 to season 4 but the addition of arenas made me play a lot of apex, once they removed arenas I quit the game and never really came back

[clever bolt]

They brought them back I believe

[vivid quartz]

Appreciate the feedback, I had a pretty good idea of how the weapons rated last season but all the weapon changes this season messed me up ngl, so silenced pistol is meta rn what else?

[uncut zephyr]

when will the thermal vision rework be out

[serene glade]

tomorrow

[unkempt moss]

Im so pumped to be able to see heat signatures again! Its so engaging!

[scarlet basalt]

yay i will finally be able to get the final gadget

[serene glade]

me filling out that ranked survey thing and the remove cl40 prompt pops up

[muted condor]

They should buff it just because it would be really funny

[unkempt moss]

It was fun when it was buffed.

[analog pewter]

what do u think about nerfing dash substantially but giving lights wall jump as a base kit thing

[supple gale]

will sniper ever be buffed a little

[analog pewter]

I pray not

[supple gale]

it’s not strong currently

[analog pewter]

better for the game that way

[supple gale]

true i guess, i just like using it occasionally but its hard to make it work with your team

[analog pewter]

I just don't think that the sniper being good would be more fun for anyone except for sniper users. it's already one of the most frustrating weapons to fight against when its user is very good with it.

[supple gale]

yes i see your point, i think i agree it shouldn’t be in the meta

[analog pewter]

it does feel good to be cracked with though

[supple gale]

I guess i like how it’s only good if you put in the work though

[chilly granite]

honestly grapple should get double jump because right now grapple vs rpg or cl40 is insta death if there isn't a good grapple target available, which is quite often true

invis has an edge against cl40/rpg by being hard to spot, so it's not a death sentence, but for a grapple light, it's not super uncommon you just get spotted and die lol

cl40 isn't so big a problem because slow projectile but rpg sucks

[supple gale]

yeah i mean when i do use it my teammates immediately start complaining but i usually get more kills than them, plug boxes, and use infuser to heal so i dont think its that bad

grapple is i think the worst specialisation rn for light surely

[analog pewter]

a shame because it's my favorite one to use

[chilly granite]

yeah good take, it's the same problem with the bow, one h+ bolt and your ttk on a heavy baloons from 1.25s with predrawn bow to 2s, and that's assumign first two hits were headshots and predrawn bow

[supple gale]

once again it’s fun and can be good if you know what to do but the others are just outright easier / more effective

[analog pewter]

what they should do with grapple is make it so that when you're airborne from a grappling hook, you don't have air inaccuracy (it treats you like you're on the ground)
and then make it so grapple refunds part of its cooldown if your grapple is really short, like to a minimum of 50% its standard cooldown or something

[chilly granite]

I think double jump + nerfing dash is enough for grapple

[supple gale]

or controversially, make it so there’s less range / speed you get but you get 2 grapples or it recharges faster

[chilly granite]

double jump would help avoid falling off the map from bad grapples which is nice for plebs, helps deal with extreme burst damage explosions like frag and rpg, and wouldn't be that oppressive imho

[analog pewter]

grapple is like, a large-scale mobility/positioning tool, but the biggest flaw with it is that it makes you airborne, so its best weapon pairs are ones that dont have air inaccuracy which are shotguns and the bow. but IME shotguns don't really pair well with grapple since they want evasive movement and quick gap-closers or other ways to get in close, so they bias to dash and sometimes cloak. if grappling kept you accurate in the air then you could actually grapple and shoot before you land

I'd love that with throwing knives in particular

[chilly granite]

yeah same with the bow, and the bow is trash with cloak too, and the bow slows you down to hell if you don't have dash

bow+ grapple theoretically is perfect combo but realitiy is ass

[analog pewter]

yeah like i use bow with grapple and its brutal. feels great when it works but it rarely does

[chilly granite]

it's my favourite combo but it really really sucks when it sucks

[analog pewter]

im not very good with dash lol, grapple is my main kit, but it really is like forcing a square peg in a round hole

[chilly granite]

mnk palyer?

[analog pewter]

yea

[chilly granite]

8 directions of dash sucks lol, I've asked embark to let players tune the angle or to give dash-aim-assists hahaha

[analog pewter]

in theory the ideal mnk setup is mouse + like a left joycon type of controller, but I'm not THAT autistic enough to finagle a setup like that. i do often wish i had a left analog stick though

[chilly granite]

yeah there's a couple companies that make em but I"m too broke hahaha

I've seen some takes that the pro lights mostly being controller players is because of aim assist and I honestly think that's wrong, I htink it's just because 360degrees of dash is so much better than 8 degrees of dash, which is so much better than invis which is so much better than grapple hahaha

[analog pewter]

are u a controller player?

[chilly granite]

roller?

nah

I wanna try on my steamdeck to see what the aim assist feels like lol but I haven't got finals installed on it

I'm certified ass at aiming on controller anyway

[analog pewter]

yea i havent played controller fps since i was a kid and i am straight doodoo now

[chilly granite]

but so many times, my dash is griefed by it being exactly 45 degree dashes

[analog pewter]

last i played was probably timesplitters cause i used to love grinding that on my xbox

[chilly granite]

like, just 40 degrees and it puts me in the building but nooo, the game insists on throwing me directly into the window frame

[analog pewter]

put a rear view mirror on light

[chilly granite]

This is somewhat a skill issue but when you're shooting someone you can't control dash angle by aiming, so it's literally just the 4 directions

8 directions*, where a controller playesr can chose any direction at all

[analog pewter]

i wouldnt call it a skill issue but i havent gotten good enough at dash to have that problem rofl

[chilly granite]

and that's huge for small things like not dashing into walls

liek dashing precisely behind cover is impossible while shooting an enemy on mnk

and like, if I'm dashing W+D, I want to go, mostly forward and a little to the left, but it's 45 degrees, so I end up missing my quick melee

that's absolutely a skill issue but it's also bullshit

but as a minimum, dash having a shorter cooldown than grapple when it's got charges is damn stupid

that's litearlly ignoring all the other benefits of dash which, is pretty mcuh everything

since you can just take gateway and have all the benefits of grapple anyway

[analog pewter]

dash also kinda annoying to play against ngl
in a way grapple and cloak arent

[chilly granite]

dash should be nerfed even if it was balanced, just because it's awful for casuals

it's way too effective against people with weak aim, and it feels terrible for them, and it also lets a player get safe and heal up really fast

probably my spiciest take is that I think heavy should regen faster than light

[analog pewter]

ahhhh i dont think heavy needs any buffs lmaoooo

i do think the different regen timings feel very strange though, I kinda wish it was universal just so that it feels consistent when playing

[chilly granite]

I think it's way too easy for light to harass poeple and then run away and be fullhp and do it again

[analog pewter]

that is kind of their job though

[chilly granite]

i'll take universal, but light being faster than heavy and mediuim is a crazy take when it's so much harder for heavy and medium to avoid damage for a continuious period

[chilly granite]

part of the problem is that they're expected to do it at full hp, which means heavy and medium need to be able to burst them from full, rather than doing some chip when they get harassed, and finishing them off on the repeek

if light has 10s regen timer, med and heavy 6s, then a light must repeek without regenning to secure kills or make their damage stick/reset the regen timer on med/heavy

that means that 1) light is way easier to kill, 2) light is way less annoying because damage actually sticks to them and 3) light can have a little more hp buffer against stuff like mines wihtout becoming op

damage not sticking is unfun as hell, it makes you feel powerless

light has the movement abilities, tehy have teh control of this situation, so they can choose to let their damage fade or not

if you take to mcuh damage on the first peek, you can let it go; but if you didn't, then you can commit for a kill

it makes light more interesting to play while also making medium and heavy more fun

and this also helps new players who are trying light, because they basically never understand they're meant to afk heal every time they take chip damage, so they just charge in after taking 10 damage and get oenshot by a frag

I'm not mad about losing my ranked game last ngiht because the other light stepped on mines 3 different times resulting in us failing to secure cashout/losing fights

[unkempt moss]

Its starting again

[serene glade]

someone gona need to be a hero again to save it

[analog pewter]

im starting to realize the deagles are fuckin awesome

[sudden pewter]

Tf no

They’re already the most mobile archetype, they don’t need parkour

Let Heavy crush a lights skull between they asscheeks and I’ll call it even

[normal pond]

i love running smokes zipline with turret and dual blades its so fun

[analog pewter]

they're only barely the most mobile, evasive dash does a lot of heavy lifting imo

"barely" is underselling but I hope my point comes across

[sudden pewter]

I mean I get it

[analog pewter]

my general opinion is that grapple and cloak are under-performing because evasive dash is the only way lights are able to survive fights in the current meta. My solution is to make dash substantially weaker, but supplement that nerf with base-kit mobility/movement mix they can use to eke out a bit more survivability with the other specs, while keeping dash around its current baseline.

Ideally, dash should stay about as good as it is now (with the nerf supplemented by base mobility buffs) but grapple and cloak should immediately become more viable since they have that supplemental mobility

i also think wall jump would make light a lot more fun for casual players and maybe attract newcomers who like other movement shooters

[sudden pewter]

Nuh uh

Dash is just insanely viable regardless of situation. Grapple is a movement option that leaves Light exposed during its duration. And cloak is just doodoo feces based on cosmetic choice.

Grapple isn’t under performing, it’s just nowhere near as popular as dash.

Grapple CD could go down and cloak could be buffed but Dash would still likely be the most popular pick just due to how powerful its general mobility and juke potential is

[unkempt moss]

I dont really even think cloak is that weak. Maybe at upper upper end, but I've found almost zero issue using it. I think it legit just takes a play style change to be viable.

[serene glade]

lights can only run in the front lines and spam dash and complain, and eat hot chip and lie

[unkempt moss]

Dash has given the expectation that lights should be invincible and brawly in the face of m/h

[muted condor]

When are you gonna be fucking on

[sudden pewter]

I’m flirting with French women that have infested blood and no feet

[muted condor]

I’m going to hurt your family

[sudden pewter]

• They jiggle when I walk 💅

[muted condor]

You know it

[sudden pewter]

TBH my car shit the bed and I had to spend an hour walking my vehicle home so I'm dead tired

Tomorrow though, if I get off at a reasonable hour I'd love to try Point Break with you sugar boo

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shoo-away-gif-13653609800890535042

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/boo-rabbit-do-not-be-afraid-rabbit-falling-izbugalza-gif-5786385398243817699

[slow linden]

Remove dash and winch,fix the actually fun specs and weapons

[indigo olive]

Ok I mostly play medium I use healing beam and dematerializer a lot gadgets being defibrillator, proximity sensor and jump pad what weapon should I run then

[eager wasp]

repeater

[unkempt moss]

cerberus

[indigo olive]

Why those weapons in particular

[eager wasp]

repeater is meta

good close range, good longer range, ofc if you have the good aim and hit flicks

[slow linden]

Cerb is good support weapon

[unkempt moss]

Cerb let's you play off of your heavy dom really well.

[indigo olive]

Okay okay thank you

[analog pewter]

oh my god i fucking love the deagles now
IM GETTING IT

just won another cashout tournament

[wraith orchid]

The h+ infuser, obviously, because it's the only way a light can contribute to a fight other then the obvious move of rushing in and dying immediatly, gateway is still an amazing tool even in it's weaker state, and the vanishing bomb or the glitch grenade depending on whether you want to sabotage or help offensives

[muted condor]

Can we fucking take defib into a basement and fucking murder it already?

[chilly granite]

I think it's fine to give light different types of "evasive survivability"; cloak fills this role by making light hard to spot and therefore hard to target until the light decides to initiate.

The real problem is that evasive dash, even against pros, is often a shitload of bonus hp by throwing off tracking, and by being an incredibly good escape tool also

invis (if it's working, like your skin doesn't make it too obvious) also acts as bonus hp due to having reaction time advantage, and the ability to choose a moment when the enemy is looking away etc.

grapple is the problem because it doesn't have any such mechanic to act as extra hp, instead, using it will make you miss shots being negative hp, not bonus hp. The positional advantage that you might be able to get with grapple, can be reached via jump pad, zipline or gateway, so that isn't really a big advantage either.

grapple needs something to make light tankier when they use it, or just a flat hp bonus, or it'll never good compared to the other two, until you make it so people can just grab boxes and spiderman to the opposite side of the mpa

although, as a start, I think that dash should lose the cooldown, it should be 20s with 3 charges or 15s with two charges imho

if dash lights can't expect to enter every battle with 3 charges available that alone cahnges the balance massively

if you dash 3 times to win a teamfight, you should be stuck with no dashes for the next teamfight imho

[muted condor]

Ok cool but when are we gonna blast defib back into the dark ages?

[unkempt moss]

This patch. Trust.

[mystic condor]

I've been asking in game but how are we feeling about the niches between the shield and twin swords,, I like the swords for style but can't help but wish I had the shield when it comes down to it

[unkempt moss]

Rpg as primary?

[chilly granite]

holy shit an actually good take from gooking

yes, make rpg a primary and delete the gadget. 30s fire rate for a 140damage rpg. Very balance

[vocal stone]

What if you could throw your weapon at an enemy, and damage would depend on the weight of the weapon and acceleration it has been given. Like, you could throw a minigun from a 4th floor of a building and it would instakill light

[unkempt moss]

This guy gets it

[mystic condor]

Drop a throwing knife form crane, will it kill?

[chilly granite]

I'm actually subhuman at heavy but I'm still winning becuase op hero

bfr is unreal op

they should add RPG jumping thoguh

heavy so boring snoozefest

[unkempt moss]

This guy gets it

[chilly granite]

like, med has jump pad, it'd be cool for heavy to get a hp cost mobility option

can I livestream this shit? I want you to laugh at my garbage heavy gameplay

idek how you're meant to play medium

at least heavy is just op enough that it's self explanitory, medium just feels worse than light and heavy

idk man maybe I'm a bad teamplayer but I havent' won a single ranked today I've litearlly lost lik 10 lmao

[wide stratus]

If you aim it right and it's not too far away yea why wouldn't it

[mystic condor]

Maybe it's like a penny and doesn't actually work

[chilly granite]

looks like the correct answer was to cave and play my one true love the m26 matteer

[near scroll]

breaking news : peter nerfed, nothing changed, peter users in shambles

[placid slate]

Tiny ass patch, tf were the balance mfs doing

[quiet shadow]

Wtf with balance omg

[placid slate]

There was literally more store items added than balance changes

[quiet shadow]

whthl Bow get buff

[silver pollen]

They packaged what is essentially a bug fix as a balance patch for breach drill lmao

[quiet shadow]

"Dev Notes: The CB-01 has been overperforming" its not cuz CB good its cuz all other bad

[placid slate]

You're just wrong though

[indigo nexus]

This really isn’t a sensible sentence

[quiet shadow]

doomed game

[indigo nexus]

Balance is always relativistic

[indigo nexus]

Well, not many balance changes, but it had a ton of fixes / optimisations

[quiet shadow]

you have sniper-shotgun and knifes with no stamina or ammo

[indigo nexus]

Are you trying to make a point here, and if so, what?

[silver pollen]

Which shotgun is a sniper

[quiet shadow]

sniper rifle is a shotgun to onetap M

[indigo nexus]

what are you talking about

[quiet shadow]

about Sniper

[indigo nexus]

it both quite plainly is not and does not

[silver pollen]

When does M need to get into melee range

Because I assume you mean hs+qm

[quiet shadow]

am not talking about wt Sniper rifle have noscope head magnet

[placid slate]

I honestly don't care bro, season came dry as hell and it seems future patches won't pick up the slack

[indigo nexus]

please enunciate your thoughts in a way that makes it possible to work out what point you are making

“noscope head magnet” is not a meaningful phrase

[silver pollen]

Might be a saltpost

[quiet shadow]

So it's normal that L-class snipers have absolutely gigantic TTK in close combat.

[silver pollen]

Do you expect a riskless win

[quiet shadow]

What are 3 schizophrenics with sniper rifles and ziplines risking?

[indigo nexus]

A high TTK is a bad thing

but hitting headshots on an inaccurate, slow-to-aim headshot-focused gun on the highest DPS class would naturally give you a good TTK

(well, on lights and mediums within a few meters, as is the case)

It’s a hard-to-use option yet not at all meta, so I struggle to imagine why it would be considered problematic

[quiet shadow]

That's the problem with this piece of crap: you don't need to aim; you just need to put the gun at the player's model, press two buttons, and zipline off into the distance.

[silver pollen]

Then use it yourself and see how it goes

[polar cedar]

famas got nerfed https://tenor.com/view/choso-choso-jjk-choso-jujutsu-kaisen-choso-anime-jujutsu-kaisen-gif-10037971888755283102

[silver pollen]

It's not that crazy i swear

Deserved nerf, it's not too bad

[chilly granite]

Recurve Bow

Increased rate of fire from 98 RPM to 103 RPM

Decreased minimum draw time from 0.15s to 0.08s, making it faster to perform quick shots

Dev Note: The Bow has dropped off in usage and various other metrics over time making it one of the weaker and least popular Light weapons. These changers are aimed at bumping up its power to give it greater viability.

HAHAHAHAHAH VICTORY

[quiet shadow]

You have to be really stupid not to realize that I'm complaining about this while using it myself. It's disgustingly easy. Either the sniper rifle should lose its rate of fire or the ability to somehow hit at close range without a scope.

[silver pollen]

No DPS changes on FAMAS right? should be fine

[tired fractal]

no lmao

[silver pollen]

it's a good gun sir

[tired fractal]

didn't deserve the nerf bro

[indigo nexus]

Well, this is a confusing claim because it is objectively false. If you do not aim you will miss.

You cannot win a serious fight by firing a shot and retreating on repeat

[quiet shadow]

Go to a shooting range and shoot point-blank at a wall without a scope, dumbass...

[placid slate]

Yes the sniper has a very high ttk

[silver pollen]

ok so
Who is letting you into point blank as a grapple light

[placid slate]

Shits why nobody uses it even though we are in a dmr meta

[silver pollen]

FAMAS is a strong boy he'll survive the recoil nerf

trust bro

[tired fractal]

my update is not downloading so I can't tell

[upper pelican]

Did they nerf hip fire on famas?

[odd osprey]

they increased bullet dispersion for all stances so yeah

[upper pelican]

Damn famas hip fire was it's biggest cone and now it's worse

[sinful sequoia]

Bow op?

[silver pollen]

Prob not

[indigo nexus]

Well, I’ll hit the wall if I aim at it :p

Having to move so close to the target to fire a shot and then retreat before dying is very inefficient, which is why sniper is not viable

It is very hard to outmatch decent players with it as you need to be very much in control of the fight

[mystic condor]

I like the retreat and shoot play style tho, it feels like a pacer

[silver pollen]

It's fun but the risk/reward just isn't in your favor

don't let me stop you, i do it when I'm not playing cashout

[mystic condor]

Maybe not, but I appreciate a gun that makes me utilize cover and space; I appreciate a lot of slower guns cus it lessens your play area alot more, letting you focus on support or positioning closer to cashouts where things get more hectic

I've been itching for medium to get a projectile weapon like the bow for that case,, like a slingshot would be so nice, activates a different part of my brain

[chilly granite]

not op, but a lot more usable now

100% op vs LLL teams thoug

faster ttk vs L than matter

and it's only a 390ms draw to onetap a light, where before ot was 450, which really helps survivability vs getting jumped by v9s or m11 lights

[chilly granite]

Wait I calculated that wrong gimmie a min

990ms cyclic light onetapping rate, but that's not enough draw to melee the lights to finish them off on bodyshots, where the matter is

finish them off with quick melee

not sure how quickmleee afffects cyclic rate of the matter and the matter wins on consistency for sure

bodyshot and quickmelee on bow is much slower than matter

the main benefit is quality of life, before, if you missed a partial draw finisher or undercooked it, it really felt awful, becuase you miss out on a huge amount of dps

now partial draws kick in faster and your dps isn't punsihed as much

[sinful sequoia]

V9s back to normal?

[sinful sequoia]

Thxxx

[chilly granite]

the bow is kinda weird because partial draws let it hit some crazy ttks if conditions are right, so it was kinda always op? but also, if conditions weren't right, the dps on the bow is basically the lowest in the game

the bow is still worse than the matter, which to me, is the closest competitor to the bow, but it's a lot better now, and it >can< have mcuh better ttks than matter

you could do this prepatch but it's incredibly difficult or the bow would've been op already, but you can do drawn headshots > undrawn headshot on a medium to kill them from full hp in .75s now .68s

but like, I've never seen even the highest skilled bow users do it, I've watched gameplay from all the high skill bows lol

I've only done it once and I play a stupid amount of bow

and I've been trying to do it when it's basically a grief becuase it's so hard to hit the undrawn headshot with a different drop and lead time

like, 99% of the time it's better to take cover draw more and then repeek

but damn does it feel amazing to pop a medium instantly hahahah

[plucky spade]

Well how conditional is the better ttk than matter though?

And also we are talking about body shots?

Wait isn't the drawn headshot like a 200 dmg shot?

Oh it's only 186

Cb nerf seems like a non issue to me

[plucky spade]

WHAT

[plucky spade]

It's a wonky ass projectile that needs the user to handicap themselves for half a second to get that ttk ( ON HEADSHOTS ), and you can't play it without dash since the moment a light goes as fast as a medium ( bow draw ) it's dead on the spot

[slow linden]

I went positive on Kyoto with flamethrower for once

[chilly granite]

vs heavy. double headshot + predrawn or partially drawn bow required to beat matter

vs medium, partial draw only

vs light, partial draw required

but some of these change a lot because of quickmelle

matter+quickmelee:

heavy doens't change afaik

medium: Fully predrawn headshot required

light: can't beat the matter

I mean, oneshot headshot obviously on light, but that existed before

if ther'es a scary bow user peek them with a flowerpot it'll tank the predrawn shot and then you can murder them nice and easy

the bow still has the lowest dps in the game (kinda? technically slightly better than sr84 bodyshots now) and can be blocked by a flowerpot because the arrow hitbox is the size of a planetary body so if it starting being annoying just throw flowerpots at bow users

you can throw a teammates body at them if a flowerpot isn't to hand but the bow has garbage dps so if it has to put out numbers, it loses

[dusky gyro]

What does the buff mean besides specific ttk? Like what does it change without going into the numbers

[chilly granite]

more dps undrawn, slightly more dps drawn, and you get to a given % drawn faster from undrawn

you can shoot undrawn arrows a lot faster, you can shoot drawn arrows slightly faster, and if you haven't drawn your bow and and someone pops out of a corner at you, you get your damage faster

TBH the unready one is the biggest one because if some v9s is camping a corner, before, you were basically 100% dead (460ms to have enough damage to headshot him, vs 500ms for him to v9s you) but now it's much more winnable, although still very hard (390ms)

OOooh and because the draw time is shorter, you can now chase better, because you slow down less to shoot 60 damage arrows

[sinful sequoia]

Yall are some nerds in here i lowkey respect it tho

[chilly granite]

before a heavy would outrun you if you chased while shooting because the draw slowdown

now you can spam them and still catch up, although slower than a v9s or some suc

[sinful sequoia]

Thoughts on charge n slam anyone?

[chilly granite]

I'm a dash lgiht so when I must suffer heavy, I love charge n slam

idk I'm super bad at heavy, but the bfr is op, I played so badly I only used my dome shield 1 time and I still bfr'd people to shit when I tried playing heavy in rannked earlier because I was titled about losing on light

Whenver I see it being used it's fucking people up, but I don't know if that's seleciton bias in players who use charge n slam

[sinful sequoia]

Ok full ruby diamond bow lobby i love my mmr

[hardy dust]

A bit weak compared to other heavy specs, not really worth picking over them in most situations, except for mgl

[sinful sequoia]

dis agree

[slow linden]

Just played two games of quick cash with cheaters in them,I love that these walking piles of human shit get to breathe

[left sage]

Charge and slam plus bfr or ks23 can give pretty nutty amounts of burst

[plucky spade]

Now v9s is better i suppose

[plucky spade]

If you shoulder tap a med and hit em with a headshot it insta aint it?

[left sage]

Not quite but close

Does 230 or something like that

[mental urchin]

Opinion: FAMAS nerf isn't terrible, but it fails to address why players often prefer the FAMAS and CB-01 Repeater over the other rifles to begin with.

Its because the AKM has a terrible initial recoil spread and awful hipfire. It takes spending 1/3 of a magazine (or alot of aim smoothing at high speed) before it becomes controllable. Its pattern is a first-shot liability that feels bad to shoot. Its obvious its bad to make it terrible at long range, but that makes it bad overall, and I think Embark has better levers to use than a dreadful recoil pattern. There's a reason pros don't use it and casuals move off it. This FAMAS nerf won't change the state of the other rifles.

Net negative nerf overall.

[surreal tide]

Hot Take: Buff the matter bullet dispersion its so tight as a shotgun

[slow linden]

Do you mean nerf? Buff or nerf it needs neither,it's almost perfect

[blazing vector]

Aye what’s the recent patch for yall

[serene glade]

Dog shit, so pretty normal

[fervent cobalt]

Prove me wrong. Sniper is best

[slow linden]

Real

[surreal tide]

Technically a nerf, but i just dont like how tight it is, like the SH bullet dispersion is so much better at least that what i think personally

[slow linden]

It's dogshit at worst and mediocre at best

[hardy dust]

Akm recoil isn't that bad, although I do agree it could get toned down a bit, especially considering it's the beginner gun. I find that the main weakness it has is that it doesn't offer anything compared to other medium picks. Famas has a good burst, hipfire and is very easy to control. Fcar is easier to control, but overall very similar to akm. Repeater has stupidly good burst and range. Akm doesn't have anything to offer. Imo it should get slightly easier recoil and increased mag size since it got nerfed a while ago and has never been good. It would actually have a niche (damage per mag and sustained damage) while also making it more forgiving for newer players, since its probably the first weapon they're gonna use. I doubt it would make it meta, but give it a little nudge in the right direction.

[slow linden]

I think the matter is supposed to play like model but on light,if they gave it more spread it would be worse than the dB and no longer equal to it

[hardy dust]

Famas nerf was deserved, and it seemed quite minor anyways. Just to bring it slightly more in line with other medium weapons.

[mental urchin]

Agree

[slow linden]

It just requires a brain to use now,now they need to do v9s

[hardy dust]

Matter is genuinely the most well balanced and designed weapon in the game

[slow linden]

Also remove winch

[mental urchin]

Its just the explanation in the patch notes comparing it to other rifles was odd, because its not the FAMAS fault that the recoil rifles are kind of objectively worse

[slow linden]

Yeah I don't think anyone hates on matter players