💣┇weapons-gadgets

[serene glade]

i think invis needs a massive rework with how its just attached to a gadget

[unkempt moss]

Vanish to medium

[slow linden]

Honestly even a 1 second cool down would be fine

[serene glade]

esports is coming back tho so we will be getting nothing but minor changes for the year

[slow linden]

Give us tf2 cloak Honestly,completely invis but inability to attack before uncloaking and it takes a sec to uncloak

[unkempt moss]

That trailer was poggers

[slow linden]

Also its silent but you can see them if they get really close or get lit on fire

[serene glade]

you saying that might make the hype for esports in the double digits now!

[slow linden]

I'm just glad stair stabs are a transferrable skill to this game tbh

[compact tundra]

While lunging our screen literally locks in place, how could we even penalize the aim more than that?

[vague plaza]

its still super stong....

[sudden pewter]

An eagle should eat your spleen as you’re aimclamped only for it to regenerate and be eaten again when you lunge again

[vague plaza]

THE SWORD INSTANTLY KILLS YOU IF YOU HIT A WALL BECAUSE YOU STABBED YOURSELF BECAUSE THE LIGHTS ARE WEAK

[sudden pewter]

Bro what

[unkempt moss]

The sword is fine, fella.

[devout magnet]

Hello

[compact tundra]

It's really not

[compact tundra]

The fuck did I do

[sudden pewter]

I died to it once so clearly it needs nerfs

[serene glade]

I remember saying something like just keep the lunge not as oppressive but make the left click strong. And a light told me that wouldn't work because the lunge is their peanut butter and jelly or some shit

[sudden pewter]

Stinky Smelly Light Thing Taking My Fragsies

[compact tundra]

NERF ALL THE WEAPONS I DON'T LIKE AND BUFF ALL THE WEAPONS I LIKE

[shell sonnet]

what if we we could quick melee with props after picking them up
like maybe 20 damage more, slightly larger hitreg, breaks after 1 use

[compact tundra]

I was created in a lab with the sole intent on making sure I ruin your K/D so you never hit all S's

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[shell sonnet]

watcha looking at?

[sudden pewter]

I’m certain that the full S rank is impossible because I’ll get 22 kills in a lobby where the second highest is 16 and still only get an A rank

[outer crow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[compact tundra]

I've done it and even I feel like it's bullshit. I do not understand what metrics they use to determine an S

[shell sonnet]

oh cmon

[outer crow]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-eltorro64rus-ugly-engineering-engineerdance-gif-16510448284686388096

[unkempt moss]

Add melee props so I can slam someone from the top rope and hit them with a folding chair

[shell sonnet]

heck if yall are so bewildered by it
just make it a qm replacement with no buffs whatsoever
it would be funny

[compact tundra]

I concur, let me smack people with the lawn chair, it'll be funny

[novel oar]

I swear to god if sword gets nerfed again

They nerfed the hell out of its damage already

[sudden pewter]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/759724989871030333/778878954991255562/speed-9.gif

Yeah sword was so nerfed guys it’s a dead weapon (looking at the insane M1 damage)

[outer crow]

https://tenor.com/view/demoman-dance-demoman-gaming-tf2-dancing-gif-17138310

[unkempt moss]

No fun allowed fella

[compact tundra]

That's the part that makes me so mad. It still functions just in such a boring way. At this point just revert back to the ok S1 sword but keep the new super lunge mechanic

[sudden pewter]

I like that the aimclamp means Lights have to actually aim for a lunge to hit and can’t swing around to ensure a hit. But I dislike that Lights aren’t allowed to gather information by looking around mid-lunge

[unkempt moss]

So the lunge is what made the weapon fun?

[muted condor]

They should nerf goo

[unkempt moss]

I agree

[placid slate]

Delete goo nade until spear spin has its object cap removed so its fair

[compact tundra]

To me it's a skill expression and skill floor/ceiling thing, the new sword prioritizes M1 making it really effective for new players who just swing it but punishing to the experienced players who try to combo and use the lunge. Why nerf the hard to do thing and buff the Brain-D easy thing. I don't get it, we don't need multi hit that much, just take it away, take away the easy as fuck M1 spam, and make the lunge combos the main damage dealer again, that's what made the weapon feel rewarding to get good at rather then me feeling like im playing suboptimally by actually trying to use my skill rather than just dashing and swinging

[compact tundra]

Yes, that's by far the main draw if the weapon

[unkempt moss]

I guess I thought the difficulty gap closing would be where the skill lies on the sword

[compact tundra]

Most the swords skill lies in the lunge, but currently most of its effectiveness lies in the swing

[muted condor]

The pure versatility and game changing power of all the goo in the game is something a lot of people don’t talk about. Makes a lot of gadgets obsolete

[sudden pewter]

The lunge is intrinsic to the hypermobility which is the foundation of the weapons identity

[compact tundra]

Btw sorry for dumping a rant on you, the barricade revert has had me ranting today and I just kinda dumped that

[sudden pewter]

You aren’t alone. Between Embark saying that Esports is a vital component of the game and the Barricade fix, on top of the game languishing during TGM and the lackluster balance patch I’m pretty frustrated with the lack of clarity and communication

Like what the fuck dude

[muted condor]

This season might be the second worse thing for the game

Season 4 only has it topped because of TA ranked

[sudden pewter]

S3* iirc

[unkempt moss]

Is the super lunge not in the game anymore?

[muted condor]

Wait, did dual blades come out season 3 or 4?

[unkempt moss]

Hopefully they remove goolocking

[sudden pewter]

It was capped to some extent to limit its capabilities when combined with Dash, and Lunge itself was soft-reworked with AimClamp and many sword players don’t like that

[unkempt moss]

So I play Sledgehammer. Where would you say the skill in Sledge is in comparison to the mobility of the sword

[muted condor]

I dislike goo locking because it’s just annoying. It’s not even that great of a strategy for winning fights all it does is piss me off.

[slow linden]

I don't even know why spear has an object cap,you should be able to theoretically wipe a tournament lobby with spin,but no fun allowed you just physically can't hit more than like 4 props,walls,or players at a time

[compact tundra]

What's pissing me off is the fact that they can't comprehend keeping the damn sand in there fucking sandbox shooter.

"Oh people love goo planes and this universally loved barricade fix makes them possible again, let's fucking revert it back"

"Oh sword is a really unique and fun concept that lets you move really fast and combo like it's a fighting game, let's fucking lock there screen"

"Oh the sledge hammer is a really cool idea and is actually meta and in a healthy spot besides the stupid busted ass winch we added to the game, let's keep winch the exact same and beat the sledge hammer into the ground and fix it in a season"

"Oh dual blades are an awesome idea but are underpowered and have been the bottom one weapon since there's launch, fuck it don't change a damn thing, actually never mind we'll buff the final attack so they don't skip it with qm but not actually address the weapons flaws"

I could keep going but I think my frustration is pretty clear and most people feel similarly

[unkempt moss]

Yeah it's really strong and too easy to do. Way too much versatility for a single spec

[sudden pewter]

Tbf Sword was super effective at lower elo and it wasn’t exactly difficult to use

[muted condor]

Embark did a straight Arrow Head level of game design with that

[sudden pewter]

Love AH but I hate AH

At least MaxiGun exists and now no warbond will ever come close

[compact tundra]

I get that but I feel removing multi-hit alone could've fixed that, now you can't wipe a whole team in 3 well placed lunges, problem mostly solved

[muted condor]

AH is the peak of good intentions with horrible execution

[sudden pewter]

The multihit was one component but my personal gripe was how forgiving the lunge was in context of swinging the camera to ensure a hit

[slow linden]

I agree entirely but I'd like to add the neglect of mgl

[compact tundra]

That's a weird one to me cause most mgl mains I've talked to actually don't want it changes and like where it is. The only thing they want is for it to explode on shields

[unkempt moss]

People have an aversion to change once they learn something.

[compact tundra]

Honestly at this point i'm ok with a 120° clamp or just adding a sensitivity lock so your cursor moves at a similar rate as when your scoped in

[slow linden]

They're wiser than me,they fear the wrath of embark,if they make a gimmick weapon too usable embark will nerf it into the floor

[placid slate]

1 elevator has enough shit in it to cause guaranteed no refs

[muted condor]

I know the people that play MGL don’t want it changed but it’s pure denial. It’s one of the worst weapons and the clips they show are the 1 of every 10 matches they have a positive k/d

[slow linden]

Not even good,just usable

[unkempt moss]

Its cope. There's a ton of ways to make it better with or without a complete rework. They just need to pick a direction

[sudden pewter]

Sensitivity Lock wouldn’t work because meta gamers have DPI switches, aimclamp all da way

[sudden pewter]

All it needs is the Demoman treatment man

[slow linden]

Oh trust me I know,I was spin covering a steal and a nerfed sword light ran up to me,killed my teammates then killed me,only ever being hit once by my spin

[sudden pewter]

Explode on contact with enemy, otherwise it retains the bounce

[slow linden]

I watched the spear connect with them like 13 times and do nothing

[muted condor]

The bounce is ass because of the latency stuff that makes it stick to walls

[slow linden]

This is honestly the only thing I want for mgl,could also remove damage stages from it's explosion because I think the only weapon damage stages actually balance properly is the rpg and c4,which aren't even weapons,they're gadgets

The grenade launchers are just glorified slug shotguns,sometimes they'll direct impact for their lowest damage stage because of shitty netcode

[unkempt moss]

Id love to see how the game operates on decent net play. It could change how I feel about some of the weapons balancing.

Do they play on lan in the major?

I dont know much about how servers work, but I don't think they can because so much is server side on the destruction.

[slow linden]

I guess,but I'm sure they can fix it in theory,if they can't they should remove damage stages,the damage stages paired with shitty netcode make grenade launchers unsatisfying to use unless you're a gambling addict who partakes in rod and sphere torture

[unkempt moss]

My finals manifesto is almost complete. Ill send it in and embark will fix the game i promise.

[slow linden]

I typed this with a quarter of a brain cell the first time I needed to retype it 😭

[compact tundra]

I need to finish mine

[unkempt moss]

Don't worry about it. Mine is literally perfect.

[compact tundra]

Oh shit my bad, you're right

[slow linden]

Mine is essentially that medium is the only half properly balanced class in the game and thus the only good class in the game,light and heavy are kinda poo in some ways

[unkempt moss]

I think thats by design no? Light and heavy shoulf be the specialized builds?

My manifesto is pushing like 25 pages at this point. Its going to revolutionize the finals.

[thick holly]

I feel like medium should have another support gadget, not sure what it would be

[unkempt moss]

Vanish bomb

[slow linden]

Specialized? Yes,but light and heavy don't lean into their gimmicks hard enough,they feel kinda hollow compared to medium in some ways,also medium could lean into their gimmicks even harder too

[thick holly]

I've heard some people say healing grenade for medium, but I feel like that would push a healing meta even more

[unkempt moss]

You're gonna love my official balance patch bud. They lean hard in to their builds.

[hallow sinew]

Nuh uh, I hate fun, nerf the swords more and buff the v9s. I have spoken.

[slow linden]

A healing grenade would be cool,I like a healing and close meta over a poke meta tbh

[unkempt moss]

You are the meta you choose. It's not chosen for you, don't let it be.

[compact tundra]

You need to work at embark, you'd do great there

[slow linden]

I hate far fights in the finals,they're unsatisfying even with weapons designed for long range,I actually prefer using long range weapons up close it's really fun

[compact tundra]

That's why my meta is sword, Cerberus, and flamethrower

[slow linden]

I adore you

[hallow sinew]

I know right

[compact tundra]

I also have the inspect for sword that catches it on fire so all 3 of my mains are technically fire related

[cerulean furnace]

Question: Surely it's a bug that when ur winched, all your attacks that you do just don't get registered at all, right? I'm talking about like when the stun is over and you're able to attack again in like the first second

[slow linden]

That's why I run healing on all classes,keeps fights close and fun

[compact tundra]

Yea that's a glitch

[cerulean furnace]

Hope that gets patched, thank god that's not just me trippin

[thick holly]

We need full on medic riot shield mediums in the meta

[cerulean furnace]

All I got is Goo Dual Blades

[slow linden]

I main fire stuff too but on light I actually play shotguns and dagger also I main cloak and sometimes run grapple

My two heavy mains are flamethrower and minigun

My medium mains are cerb and riot,and maybe revolver

[compact tundra]

My light is sword and double barrel

My medium is Cerb, model, riot, and dual blades

My heavy is flamethrower, SA-12, lewis gun, minigun, sledge, and ks-23

[thick holly]

When I play heavy I play m60, it's the only heavy weapon I can actually seem to do well with

[unkempt moss]

Gual Blades. Cmon now it was right there

[slow linden]

I would run Sledge again but the small buff after gutting it still left it ruined for me,I just can't use it anymore,I use spear better,a fundamentally worse weapon

[compact tundra]

Heavy is way more spec reliant than medium for combat so it might just be a hard switch to get used to

[placid slate]

Spear overall conceptually better

[slow linden]

The catastrophic damage Sledge did justified its lack of reach,200 damage overhead was fine

[unkempt moss]

Sledge will always be the best melee weapon. GooHammer 4ever

[thick holly]

I don't typically play heavy, I mainly play it when I need to switch things up for myself.

Riot shield medium will always be my favorite

[slow linden]

I wish they never added winch,it's killed and limited a lot of things on heavy

Winch has kinda taken a lot of the fun out of heavy with the nerfs it causes

[cerulean furnace]

I'M STEALING THAT <3

[unkempt moss]

Is Winch still a problem for people?

[cerulean furnace]

Not as much anymore. The glitch that disables any hit registration after ur supposed to attack again is very annoying tho

[unkempt moss]

That's understandable

[compact tundra]

That's fair, I switch fairly often so for me I've learned how all 3 work since I don't think sword clamp is going anywhere. If it did I'd probably go back to hard sword main but until swords skill expression is returned I don't think I'll have any hard mains

[slow linden]

It's mere existence causes heavy to be limited by it,they are afraid to buff certain things and nerf specific things purely around winchclaw

[unkempt moss]

Objectively, do you think sword clamp was an unhealthy change?

[unkempt moss]

Limited? Who decided that? Every nerf an opportunity to show light players how dumb and bad they are. Slowly removing excuses.

[slow linden]

I don't care that winch is "fundamentally overpowered blah blah light whining this light whining that" it's not fun enough to justify nerfing heavys weapons into the ground,I want it gone and I want my weapons back

[compact tundra]

I don't know, I certainly don't think sword was strong enough to warrant such a strong change but I do understand that sword was a bit oppressive in casual lobbies but I also don't ever remember it being very prevalent so i don't fully understand why they changed it

[slow linden]

Winch is the chains that keep heavy enslaved

[thick holly]

I'm just not really a huge fan of FPS games, but riot shield is one weapon that I actually enjoyed the playstyle of. While guns are fun to use to switch things up, melee is just WAY more my style

[unkempt moss]

Ill say that nerfing both damage and giving clamp probably was too much. And removing multi hit. I think clamp and removal of multi hit was fine.

It seems like sword players really just never recovered from the m1 buff m2 nerf.

I thought it would go away.

[slow linden]

I don't look at it like that,I think the childish heavy vs light shit is dumb and causes way too many nerfs to both classes

[unkempt moss]

It was a joke but sure.

[compact tundra]

Honestly I think removing multi hit and maybe a bit of a damage nerf but I don't understand why we needed a screen lock to prevent 360 hits when removal of multi hit would remove most of the problem with them anyways

My problem with clamp is it soft removes combos and that was the main draw of swords combat next to the hyper mobility

[unkempt moss]

Id say its because it removes the point of a lunge attack if you can just turn it in to an AoE. To me a lunge means precision.

[slow linden]

I know you're joking,but many in the community aren't joking about that and it causes a lot of unnecessary toxicity between light and heavy and unnecessary complaints that lead to harsh nerfs

[unkempt moss]

Oh I actively dislike light players in the game. Id nerf the players out of the game instead of touching the class.

[slow linden]

Redditors are amongst us,they look exactly like you or I,but they're not

[slow linden]

I will say some of the most toxic players are on light

[unkempt moss]

I think my problem with light players is that I mainly play with a duo, so we get stuck with the alpha lone wolf light players that their only goal is to die as fast as possible as their teammates are trying to keep up.

[slow linden]

Those people don't deserve to play the game if their intention isn't to win but to ruin the fun and playing experience of others

[unkempt moss]

But that happens on mediums as well. I dont know why lights aren't just waiting behind their heavies to engage and they mop up free kills.

The times I play light I just wait for gunshots and then just burn down anything in sight for free.

[thick holly]

I was playing soloQ quick cash yesterday and a light was being toxic to me because I was playing riot shield (I had the most kills, support score, and was actually trying to defend our objective)

[slow linden]

There's no worse detriment to your team than a random sniper light or a dogshit turret akm medium random

[unkempt moss]

For me, I can tell when someone is trying to play with the team but is just having a rough match. Light players will bring zero team utility, be playing sniper, and then flame people for them dying. It drives me nuts.

Im convinced that most solo queues truly believe they've never been the reason for any of their losses.

[slow linden]

I fucking hate most solo players,the only solos that have a less than 90% chance of being worthless are heavies

Because at least heavy is designed and encouraged to be most playable on objective

[unkempt moss]

I think its because heavies have a very heavy focus on team utility with their kit. So its by accident.

[thick holly]

Oh yeah the light that was being toxic to me as also a sniper player

[slow linden]

A heavy's base instinct is to play somewhat correctly,even a bad heavy will try to play right

[thick holly]

like I wasn't playing well because my playstyle relies on being able to be with other players. And the other teammate we had actively ran away from me when he was low

And when an entire team tried to chase me down, they wouldn't even help me at all

[slow linden]

Damn,that sucks,hope you get better randoms

[thick holly]

Yeah, luckily every now and again I do get amazing randoms

I was playing Cashout and the light player on my team knew I was a medic role and adapted to that playstyle. Using me as an escape point to get back up to full health quickly

[serene glade]

Doesn't help the solo queue players put their self worth into the game most of the time and when it's not going their way they just give up and blame their team to protect themselves it feels like. Sounds hyper specific but I feel like it happens more often than not. Or they'll see me on mgl and just give up or not play around it

[thick holly]

I always try to play around how other people are playing. And honestly the medic role allows me to easily do that without switching up my loadout constantly

I let them play how they want, all I ask is that they don't abandon me when I get into danger

[spiral minnow]

Last match was so horrible. We had a team that had two mediums that all they did was sit on the cash out the whole time and spam turrets and gas like there was two turrets on the cash out at all times and they would hide in this corner and as soon as someone took out both turrets they just run and killed them and they had to heavy on their team that was constantly spamming fortifications, and the healing ball thingy that has to be the worst match I’ve ever played in my entire life, simple fix that would make it way more bearable make it to where a team has a limit of one turret at a time

[serene glade]

Lmfao

[slow linden]

Nah it's not specific enough lol I know EXACTLY what you mean

[spiral minnow]

Not to mention that our teammate was utterly useless and all he did was go out and get kills, not trying to steal the cash out once and had zero revives and would constantly steal other people’s kills He had like eight kills and me and my friend had just a ton of assists not to mention there were someone who had a username that definitely violated community guidelines

[slow linden]

This is honestly more refreshing than wiching cashout outside and roof camping it

I like tense close fights,I despise long range or open engagements

Also as a goo gun player I can just turn turret off

[spiral minnow]

At least for that, you can go up on the roof they were in a concrete building had so many defenses and just kept spamming gas on the cash out and if that in the church didn’t kill you then they just run in there themselves and just spam the person to death. Yeah it doesn’t help that the person on our team was also playing light and I was the only medium because my friend is actually very good as a light class

[slow linden]

I main the one build that hard counters them I really don't see a problem with what they were doing personally

[unkempt moss]

GooGun supremacy.

[slow linden]

I main goo flame with Pyro mines,pyro nade and goo grenade,sometimes dome over goo grenade

Additionally my build counters roof camping via goo locking them from across the map or setting their favorable position on fire after being carpet bombed with goo,forcing them to drop down and fight me

[stable oracle]

when do you guys think they will bring thermal vision back

[slow linden]

I dunno but I'd prefer they limit it to melee or sniper

Feels a little too good with a rush weapon,dive or poke thermal is fine tho

[stable oracle]

i think it would be kinda useless with melee tho, sniper would be op

[slow linden]

Smoke cloak thermal with dagger is devastating

[gleaming aspen]

yall got double barrel grapple tips this shit mad fun

[gleaming aspen]

thermal was used with ars and shotguns and basicly mid to short range thermal on sniper sucked

[slow linden]

Not really but that is my favorite way to play db,just hit them ig?

[gleaming aspen]

real

[slow linden]

To be fair sniper just kinda sucks a little

[gleaming aspen]

i got outsniped by a heavy 😭 i perma dropped sniper after that lolol

[stable oracle]

any tips with the arn 220

[slow linden]

You don't want to know my favorite gadgets to run on light

[stable oracle]

like i feel that the damage is good but its mad annoying when u think that you still have one more mag but have to reload

[gleaming aspen]

mine is prolly vortex but i cant find use for it

[stable oracle]

all the other light weapons are not ar type weapons too unfortunately so i am stuck with arn

[gleaming aspen]

go to training range and practice recoil

[stable oracle]

recoil is easy i got decent aim cuz i play apex and what not

but its the mags that kinda annoy me

[slow linden]

I either run frag,pyro and gas,or frag,breach charges and vortex

I miss when light used to be able to launch buildings into orbit with gateway and a Sledge heavys help

Wait did they ever fix that?

[gleaming aspen]

no idea

[slow linden]

I can't find the video on it : (

[gleaming aspen]

delayed explosion spell fireball spicy air spell explosive magic circle and vortex magic circle

[slow linden]

Yea

[unkempt moss]

Hold left click and on head.

[slow linden]

Fr,0 recoil ah gun,shits a better sniper than the actual sniper

[compact tundra]

This is a video of someone else's pov of the gateway glitch

https://youtube.com/shorts/pI33gcaN5K4?si=dmy7oRmRtAa3ukJf

[foggy ore]

Gay

[vocal flume]

bruh FIX the stupid defib not registering
go to revive someone and im literally ontop of em and it wont even register and need to do it again, why is this even an issue

[unkempt moss]

Are you holding it long enough?

[spring bramble]

thats what explosives are for

[vocal flume]

oh you need to hold? i didnt know, do you also need to equip it?

[spiral minnow]

Yeah, I spammed explosives the whole time. They were in a concrete room. Nothing would budge every floor. They went down They just refortified it immediately and did the same thing.

[unkempt moss]

Im not the dumb ass that cant use defibs.

[vocal flume]

o rly?

[compact tundra]

Bro you're the same dude that called for a flamethrower nerf in the feedback chat, these are real questions

[unkempt moss]

Lmayo

[vocal flume]

hell yeah it 2 taps lights and 4 taps mediums on a great no damage issue server

[vocal flume]

why are you laughing you cant even tell what sarcasm is

[compact tundra]

It's one of the weakest weapons on heavy and only really melts lights, it does not need a nerf, a good light should be able to avoid it and medium should either be out of range or know not to take a close range heavy fight

[unkempt moss]

Sure thing boss

[vocal flume]

you cant avoid it when you get hit by it with 1 hit and when you dash away the game keeps burning you to 30 health, not all games or lobbies but its happened to me, i dunno how the damage works maybe its rng but when I use the FT its never like that

[unkempt moss]

Dang she got me with the clown emoji. I am defeat

[compact tundra]

It does 31 after burn damage and melts lights quick so you gotta be fast on the dash. Otherwise it's a pretty weak weapon that really relies on mesh juggling and QM combos to drop the ttk

[unkempt moss]

Let the boy stand in front of the tank death machine and miss defibs

[vocal flume]

its weak for me but when others use it it does practice mode damage which for me makes no sense

[serene glade]

didnt you say we should get really fat for the track meet?

[unkempt moss]

No I said fast

[serene glade]

ahhh DAMN

[nocturne scroll]

i think they need to add more CHINESE weapons and maps

[serene glade]

sell the company to the saudis tbh

[wet night]

So what is the point of the pike?

[slow linden]

Yeah it would help if you equipped it

[slow linden]

It's joever I'm afraid

[spring spear]

youre probably using it like its hitscan when its a projectile

flamethrower has one of the worst dps in the game and if you are getting killed by it as a light you are 100% out of position

[vocal flume]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-thinking-gif-18107621495886085895

[slow linden]

He's a little confused but he got the spirit

[slow linden]

Or got goo comboed,goo gun raises flames effective range by quite a bit

As it should,I love me some goo gunnery

[unkempt moss]

Id imagine it was that he was getting torched by some flame chad and tried to panic defib, frame 1 to the discord to complain.

[unkempt moss]

To get smoked by anything with range greater than the sledgehammer at this point.

[wet night]

it is a sniper why does it do less damage then the revolver

[slow linden]

Is it really that bad? Seems to do good dps but that recoil pattern and amount of recoil is very excessive

[serene glade]

because they dont want a poke meta but also do want a poke meta

there is no balance philosophy atm and they dont know what to do

[slow linden]

I want battle rifles to be usable but not be meta,also I want the m1garand not the two meh ones that we already have

[wet night]

If you have a sniper it needs to be able to one-two shot kill otherwise it isn't a sniper and you should just add another type of rifle to the game. Also no quick scoping... I never understood why designers let that in games

[vocal flume]

just make a 50cal sniper for the light where it cant quick scope, has 3 shots and 2 body shots mediums and heavies and 1 shots lights to the body, 1 shot headshot light and medium, 1 shot head and body for heavies.

[unkempt moss]

I dont know if its unusable, but theres not really a spot where it doesn't feel terrible to play.

[slow linden]

Fair,that recoil pattern on a semi is fucking unbearable,I used it for 3 seconds in shooting range and said hell no

[spring spear]

im very glad people who want a good sniper in this game arent in charge of balance
imagine how much more miserable the current poke meta would be if sniper was meta

[serene glade]

apparently the light fella sarcasm posts or something so you can just ignore anything he says

[slow linden]

Sniper is only bad because of netcode jank,if the game actually ran well with minimal desync it'd be a good weapon,just like the cl40,it's mediocre because of how jankily the game runs

[spring spear]

It's not mediocre at all, it might not be meta but its far from being a bad weapon, the reason you dont see it is because alternatives like LH1, ARN are better

[slow linden]

There's my hot take for a lot of the weapons that are bad,the only weapon I actually think is fundamentally bad is like mgl and maybe spear

[unkempt moss]

I stand by that almost all issues with the sniper are user error. Its strong but people play it all wrong.

[slow linden]

Ah sniper? Yeah it's alright,cl40 definitely mediocre though

[spring spear]

yeah cl40 is mediocre i cant argue against that

[wet night]

to clerify we are talking about the Pike not the lights sniper

[serene glade]

you were, everyone has moved on and is talking about the sniper

[slow linden]

The damage stages pretty regularly make direct hits hit for its lowest possible damage

[unkempt moss]

No I know. I was responding to his comment on the SR84

[slow linden]

I've barrel stuffed someone with that thing for 20 damage,had the game worked right he was low enough that would've killed him

[slow linden]

They sit across the map and go for kills because of powershift brainrot? Of course,they're worthless

Sniper is honestly pretty good mid and close range

I love using it like a shotgun and quickscoping

[wet night]

That is what a sniper is supposed to do, ill be it in this game it should center around objectives. My point stands though if you prefer quick scoping and close range sniper play then that isn't a sniper play style it is a rifle style and the weapon should be replaced with a different type of rifle that does that (see the repeater rifle the mediums have)

[serene glade]

sir this is a virtual reality game show, not the frontlines

[slow linden]

They can't replace it and it's fun to quick scope with,you're looking at it from an optimized view,optimizing everything does more bad than good

Sniper also can 1 tap a medium from any range,quick scoping with it is fine I think you just aren't seeing what I see

[wet night]

I wouldn't say optimized I would say a catagory view. Snipers are long range slow fireing high damage weapons. If it doesn't fit into that then it shouldn't be considered a sniper.

[serene glade]

it cannot

[slow linden]

You sure??? It does a shit ton on crit

[serene glade]

leaves them like minimal hp

236

[slow linden]

Ah,yeah I don't take 1s when I play light mb I didn't know,still it's really good

That means you can QM combo with it tho

[serene glade]

i think its good when its played around and like the centerpoint of the team i guess. it feels horrible with no structure

[wet night]

I mean I feel like that can be said about a lot of things in this game though. Like a tutle set up is all well and good but if your team ignores you trying to play defensive and wipes then it doesn't mean much

[slow linden]

Snipers are typically a support weapon,it makes sense,it's definitely not a solo queue weapon,if you solo queue into a duo and you're using sniper you had better be cracked or you're going to look like a selfish asshole 90% of the time unless it's like an all poke team

[wet night]

I remember most of the maps being inside areas. How many of the maps now allow for poke playstyles?

[serene glade]

all of them have areas where poking is good

[wet night]

but it is random for the cash box to be in that location or be close enough for poking to be effective? or is it basically viable regardless of the cashbox due to set spawn points?

[analog pewter]

they need to make it so you can cancel the startup of dual blade swings into deflect
like before the hit registers

in combination with the buffer for it being so fucking generous I swear to god I feel forced to constantly do follow up swings when I want to be deflecting

[wet night]

Something like a melee button cancle into the deflect?

[analog pewter]

just canceling the swing into deflect. i'd be fine with it if it only is cancelable before the swing hits, since all the swings have a wind up. being able to cancel that wind-up into deflect would be a huge QOL boon for the weapon and let you make more on the spot decisions with it

[wet night]

just being a dummy in team deathmatch running around with a knife is good stress relief

[spiral minnow]

Especially when there’s a full team of them camping, the cash out and just spamming you

[wet night]

There isn't a cash out in team death match

[analog pewter]

they let us experience a usable barricade for a week and then stole it from us. under the guise of "we're totally working on a rework guys!!!"

reactive, quick cover that is never fucking reliable because being in the same FUCKING ZIP CODE AS A PEBBLE ON THE GROUND PREVENTS YOU FUCKING PLACING IT

they should have grandfathered the """bug""" in as a feature because it made the barricade fucking usable

[unkempt moss]

I thought that when I was a rookie as well

[unkempt moss]

So is that 3 active reworks going on?

[analog pewter]

theyre totally reworking this stuff guys you'll see it next season for sure

[unkempt moss]

MGL, Barricade, and Thermal?

[analog pewter]

dont forget melee

[unkempt moss]

They just need to relax and let me handle this next balance patch. GooKing's Official Ultra Fun Balance Patch will set the world ablaze.

[unkempt moss]

Maybe the new year will bring the new stuff.

[cunning slate]

cough cough M1911 on Medium cough

or at least Origin 12

[unkempt moss]

Isn't the origin just the matter basically?

[serene glade]

No more new weapons and let's just lock in the existing ones to not be hot garbage or boring as shit mmhm mmhm

[unkempt moss]

Nm mm

[analog pewter]

ill do you one better, give medium the HK Mk. 23 SOCOM

either would be fine since they're both .45 ACP but I love the socom to death and it's underrepresented

[unkempt moss]

Brekky

[analog pewter]

I just want medium to have a handgun that isn't headshot-reliant the way the revolver is, giving them a pistol that doesn't need headshots to be competent would be really nice

[cunning slate]

semi-auto, still for breaching, but not "pump" action like the matter. Cerb and Model kinda feel too high risk and too low reward for someone like me.

[unkempt moss]

Didn't even realize matter was pump action

[cunning slate]

More Bolt action then Pump

[cunning slate]

I would love it in the game too, it might rub sholders with the V9S, but idk. I'd give it a +1 gimmick to make it better.

[analog pewter]

overpressured rounds that deal more damage to structures and deployables

[cunning slate]

Hitscan?

[analog pewter]

yea

[unkempt moss]

Can we rework the spear to be a ninja umbrella that blocks bullets and stabs when closed. And then I can use it to slow my fall.

Or a Negev for heavy

[analog pewter]

just add a kingsman style umbrella as a weapon for medium or light

[unkempt moss]

I dont know the reference

Is it just what I said but from a movie

[analog pewter]

ohhhh shit for medium it could be awesome actually, would fit in with the blocking attacks gimmick of medium melee weapons
and its gimmick could be slow falling when deployed in the air. the shield itself could have destructible panels that regenerate when closed

[serene glade]

Splatoon umbrella

[analog pewter]

https://kingsman.fandom.com/wiki/Kingsman_Umbrella

[unkempt moss]

So we're giving a third blocking melee to Medium

[analog pewter]

i would nix it being a firearm and make it more like a rapier

[analog pewter]

i figure "blocking melee" is how they intend medium melee to work. they wouldn't give them two if they didnt mean for it to be like, the archetype

[unkempt moss]

Yeah but I wanted one for heavy

[cunning slate]

I was thinking Brass Knuckles on Med or Heavy

[analog pewter]

they should make it so if you spin attack the spear while airborne you helicopter it and can fly around 🚁

[unkempt moss]

Could you spin cancel it

[analog pewter]

no you have to land first

[unkempt moss]

Does it have a lot of landing lag?

Or will it have trip guard

[analog pewter]

you have to clear a landing zone and then let it down gently so as not to damage it

[unkempt moss]

How about this. You guys can have you medium V9s and Matter. I get my ninja umbrella

[analog pewter]

hmmmm, maybe when it's not deployed it's like a rapier with a really good lunge distance, but when deployed it's got a weak defensive shield with destructible panels, but you can fire a snakeshot round once while deployed before having to reload it

so its like a hybrid melee/shotgun where the shotgun is more for finishing players after they've been weakened by teammates or with the rapier....

[cunning slate]

I'd make that deal, anyone else?

[serene glade]

Embark actually buffs arn damage by 1

[unkempt moss]

And extends its effective range by 3m

[serene glade]

Ak loses 1 bullet and explosive mine gets a 15 damage nerf and smaller blast radius

[unkempt moss]

Remember when the XP was busted as hell and they just added a second one to the game and nerfed the first one

[serene glade]

Next season major patch note leaks btw

[unkempt moss]

His dad works at embark

[cunning slate]

fr?

[unkempt moss]

Yeah.

Brekky

[dusk urchin]

Double handed crossbows, boomerang 🪃 for light, thors hammer for heavy, a muppet hand , two muppets with gun in mouth for heavy .50 kimbos, a cannon for the rpg, a plunger 🪠 for rpgs ammo, plunger for lights sword or the toilet scrub, a toothbrush for the dagger, egg launcher, shotgun that shoots confetti 🎉, a fish for melee weapon, a wizard staff, bow that shoots silly snakes

[outer crow]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-team-fortress-heavy-gif-21772094

[lapis field]

Wishing medium would get the xp-50 with a rework or an f2000, and give light the p90 ngl

[outer crow]

disagree with last one

[shell sonnet]

akin to this, anybody got some ideas on how to make the game feel even more gamey?

[lapis field]

2 step wall run? to tie into the Mira’s edge aspect of the game

[unkempt moss]

• Rocket Jumping
• Allow Flamethrower to provide thrust depending where you aim.
• Pole Vault with Spear

[outer crow]

?

[night otter]

do you know what the dt11 is?

[outer crow]

No?

[unkempt moss]

Looks like an over under shotgun

Longer barrel. I think it would be use for geese or duck hunting.

[night otter]

please tell me yall understand what im trying to say

[unkempt moss]

You want the dt11 in the game?

[night otter]

yup hope they do revisit the idea of the dt11

[outer crow]

ah understood what u mean

would be nice to see this gun

[shell sonnet]

i think only the spear one is on the wavelength of what im imagining specifically with this idea
stuff that makes the world more interactive, vr like

quick melee with props fits that bill, spear vaulting would too

got any other ideas?

[unkempt moss]

I just want to flamethrower one tbh. It would add a nice level of interactivity to gun.

[shell sonnet]

(aside from if qm prop use is actually a good idea t all)

[unkempt moss]

Ive always wanted to see how power weapons would fit in the game. Giving a second objective for teams to fight for.

[shell sonnet]

i mean, might be
im not very thinky rn

ive just been looking for more stuff, since canons will soon be moveable

[shell sonnet]

eeeeh
not sure

the defending team cant leave, and the attackers are free to take it

maybe in a mode where there is actual oppertunity cost of loosing the point over trying to get it, like ps?

[unkempt moss]

You didnt say it had to be a good idea. You're just asking for ideas.

[shell sonnet]

yeah fair, hope you dont mind me throwing my 2 cents at it

[unkempt moss]

Doesnt bother me. I just dont have it broken down at the resolution you may want. I assumed it would be an LTM they try it. But nothing more video gamey about shooters than power weapons and power ups.

Even Point Break could be a spot to try it out. Lots of people to go for subobjectives

Unserious mode.

[shell sonnet]

im not sure if me using video gamey is the right word

interactivity?
making the world more alive

like flipping a table for cover as example

[shell sonnet]

true

especially a 1-use shield bubble could be good to help defenders regain it
timing still sucks tho

[outer crow]

flamethrower for medium class would be nice to see

[unkempt moss]

Ive always thought wood buildings should ignite and burn slowly.

Thats kind of world interactive.

[shell sonnet]

another thing about the qm idea

what if quick meleeing while you hold a gas canister actually primes it, and you get to use it like a fire extinguisher
for small mini smoke clouds to put out fire
thats something that seems to fit the idea

[shell sonnet]

agreed, perfect example, but sadly they mentioned erformance issues

maybe there could be another way?
like a maximum aoe it could have?
or just destroying the item its burning after a while to prevent excessive amounts of fire exising

[unkempt moss]

I like how in CS GO the explosions dissipate smoke. I think that could be a nice counter for smoke.

Completes the rps circle a bit cleaner.

But the gas dispersion would need a full overhaul I assume.

[shell sonnet]

i mean true, its something
but i really want to just get smoke fixed

still holding onto the "perfect vision cut if youre outside, grayed silhouettes while inside" to make getting close always an option

and well, just making it actually reliable

i still get shot from somewhere outside as if it didnt exist

at least this way it would have tangible, 100% reliable usage

even if thats "only" working against anyone outside of it, but never inside

[unkempt moss]

Id like for geometry to stop gas dispersion.

[shell sonnet]

doesnt cs do that too?

dont think it will happen here though, since the moving walls would mess with it a lot
unless you want it to first interact with them on creation, then never again

i think ive heard cs makes smokes stop on walls, then makes the aoe longer instead, keeping the same volume

[unkempt moss]

Its one of those never ever things that I think would make the game feel sharper.

Like gas/smoke following the grenade to some extent on moving platforms.

[shell sonnet]

i cant wait for 2050 where a super computer costs as much as a phone and every game will be able to have otherwise incredibly taxing mechanics
unless they decide to save on optimizing instead

i really hope they set the weight on the canons low so you arent limited to winch, goo and jump pad to move them

[unkempt moss]

Id imagine the calculations would be server side like destruction. So really it could be possible, but I also dont think its a request popular enough from the community.

[shell sonnet]

3-4 qm's to move them 90° or something

[shell sonnet]

yeah true...

[unkempt moss]

Id take better servers over proper gas physics every day of the week though.

[shell sonnet]

heavy gadget that allows you to place the usually map bound canons :]

[unkempt moss]

I want a mortar so bad for heavy

[shell sonnet]

and then aim it up by placing it on goo and having it fall on its side

[shell sonnet]

as long as its a destruction and not damage tool id be interested
still unsure about its spamability though

like, theyre literally made to shoot in high arc so they can do so safely behind cover

[unkempt moss]

It would be for both probably. It youre able to be accurate with a mortar It should be rewarded. The high arc means mf should also just be able to walk away from it.

[shell sonnet]

im trying to think of games i played that did similar and if they were a problem there...

[shell sonnet]

your cover doesnt move
imagine having low range and a heavy grinds down your defences from complete safety

just run goo gun lol

[unkempt moss]

I dont think it would be infinite ammo. Maybe a handful of shots and on cooldown

[shell sonnet]

ofc, but that can still potentially cause problems

no way to know for sure

[unkempt moss]

Like a demat situation

Anything can cause problems. We just had barricades allowing people to fly across the map.

[shell sonnet]

hmm, yknow what might be fun?

having one of those off map zeppelines accessable
like a mix between the large suspended structures and the moving platforms

maybe being able to drop what it carries to destroy a building below

[night otter]

that was funny though

[unkempt moss]

Its not something that would ever be implemented in a dynamism shooter though. To slow too clunky

[shell sonnet]

where is the problem

[outer crow]

Mortar artillery or what?

[unkempt moss]

I want to mix herbs

[outer crow]

i was thinking about artillery turret for medium class

[unkempt moss]

This guy trying to get everything on medium

[shell sonnet]

speaking of virtual reality feature's
being able to pick up a bush and carry it around

[outer crow]

https://tenor.com/view/demoman-dance-demoman-gaming-tf2-dancing-gif-17138310

[shell sonnet]

scrumpy

[outer crow]

engineer head drinks his scrumpy

Demoman says: Thats mine!!!

Engineer replies: Start praying boy......

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-eltorro64rus-ugly-engineering-engineerdance-gif-16510448284686388096

[shell sonnet]

still trying to think of more vr-like ideas...

[indigo nexus]

How about the ability to set your height to a completely wrong value to clip under floors when you load in

[shell sonnet]

unrelated, but customizeable quick melee's

[slow linden]

Give heavy a chainsaw primary and a bear trap gadget

[shell sonnet]

how is it gonna differentiate itself from the other melee's?

sledge has destruction, spear has aoe
my pick: m2'ing into a wall makes it sink the teeth in and pulls you upward, heavy mobility melee

[shell sonnet]

i really dont want bear traps tho

[slow linden]

A chainsaw could be destructive for only wood,but the climbing ideas pretty cool

[indigo nexus]

A weapon that is destructive specifically to wood is…

Well, do I need to explain why that’s not a well designed weapon specialisation

[slow linden]

I do,it'd be a stun that doesn't take the enemy out of the fight,and it's completely avoidable (unlike winch claw)

[indigo nexus]

Problem is, it would be way better vs lights than it would vs other classes. A heavy that’s stationary can still fight back properly, a light can’t.

[near scroll]

tf2 spy invis for cloaking device rework when

[slow linden]

The wood destruction would be additional to another gimmick,like that climbing idea,or ramping damage with an overheat meter or something

[shell sonnet]

i really dont want more stuns

[slow linden]

Sadly never

[shell sonnet]

like, even a well designed annoying mechanic is still annoying
i dont think were getting stuns out of that

[slow linden]

I want winch claw removed,but we're probably not getting what we want,embark will add a new poorly designed stun some day

[slow linden]

Eehh even heavy can die in under a second if he just stands there,you just look at his now completely stationary head

Only heavy weapon that allows you to just stand still is minigun

[slow linden]

Prolly stun grenades or an smg that slows and flinches you or some bullshit

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, but their chances are a hell of a lot better than a light in the same scenario

If a light runs into a trapped heavy the heavy has a chance, not so the other way around. Unless maybe if they have a SH1900 I guess.

[sour portal]

Im a dash light and don't know whether to run M11 or matter

Pls help

[shell sonnet]

bold of you to assume a heavy thats suddenly stunned in place has a chance to rev up before he's turned into minced meat

[slow linden]

I'm typically half revved 80% of the time,typically always when I'm walking through a doorway or window,but yeah I agree

[shell sonnet]

i do wonder actually, why does a bear trap feel so different compared to a mine stack?
why do i have a problem with one, but not the other

that a bear trap may not make noise?
1 less slot?
bad stigma?
delays death?
that you sometimes do actually survive it, and being baited into a likely death, but maybe not, compared to a straight "you are dead" is exhausting?

[slow linden]

You seem to be at war with yourself

[shell sonnet]

i mean, about why i have an opinion, yeah

[slow linden]

Do you hate it because you inherently hate all stuns? Or do you hate mines AND stuns

[shell sonnet]

wouldnt make sense to only stick to whatever opinion first came to mind
i wanna know why

[slow linden]

Fair enough

[shell sonnet]

dont hate mines, do hate stuns

[slow linden]

I'm fine with avoidable stuns,I love mines

[shell sonnet]

idk, even if theyre otherwise functionally the same, this specific stun still rubs me the wrong way

[slow linden]

Goo mines for heavy would be dope,stack those on a Pyro mine and now people can't run back the way they came

I would rather goo mines over bear traps tbh

[shell sonnet]

would need a second of delay, but i wouldnt mind it otherwise

unless you actually make it a goo cage like what some suggest

[shell sonnet]

agreed

like, goo mines still leave more player agency than a bear trap
you can jump out the nearest window, can actually 1v1 your opponent instead of being target practise
maybe pull an item to use

[slow linden]

Nah like you know the goo half spheres that sometimes pop up when you shoot a goo barrel? You'd be in that and going forward,so the goo in front would crumble and now there's just a wall behind you

[shell sonnet]

thats basically the same
probably fine

[slow linden]

If you dropped on one and stood still for the goo to set you'd probably be actually just trapped tho

[shell sonnet]

id assume it works like a grenade, and standing still just spawns the connector inside of you, destroying it
hence the 1s delay

[slow linden]

I mean aren't all mines slightly delayed anyway?

[shell sonnet]

I just missed the t on trigger

Got send to the snuke pit for 10 minutes

[shell sonnet]

They are, but ive only ever seen like maybe 1-2 dash lights ever trigger a mine, then not get damaged

with the goo blobs size, it would need to be even longer to not spawn inside you every time

[slow linden]

Dash is only balanced because it's lights only usable spec,they can't nerf or rework it but they also refuse to buff the other two

[shell sonnet]

Waiting on cloak and dagger rework
No idea what to do with grapple

[slow linden]

Give grapple two charges,no other changes

Give us tf2 cloak,revert dagger nerfs

[shell sonnet]

Thats just a better dash
Only 1 less charge, but far more distance, verticality and potential speed

Unless they decide to give dash a split second of i-frames or smth to makr it more unique

But thats probably a bad idea

[slow linden]

Dash isn't frustrating because of distance,it's frustrating because you can just spam it and fly around the room in a fight

[shell sonnet]

And giving grapple a 2nd charge would make it able to do the same

[slow linden]

Dash is actually kinda mid for getting around,grapples already better for that,dash is best for fighting

[shell sonnet]

At least rn you have to decide between getting in or a good escape

With a 2nd charge you could do both

[slow linden]

Only twice,and you can't really look around as much while grappling

Additionally I just want to be spiderman

[compact tundra]

As a more recent grapple main who used to ask for that I can confidently say that's kinda a bad idea, that would make grapple lights basically impossible to kill cause they would always have a great get out of jail free card

[slow linden]

In the open probably,but in a building not so much

[scarlet basalt]

I'm new to the game, what light loadouts do y'all recommend

[compact tundra]

Trust grapple works in buildings, it's just a bit harder to use

But then again I am a melee grapple main so obviously it would work for me

[slow linden]

Cloak double barrel,sonar grenades,Pyro grenade and heal emitter

😈

[slow linden]

I use it with db but I have practiced grapple stabs with dagger

[hollow owl]

@quaint geyser can we get a Thompson skin for the P90?

[slow linden]

Can we just get a thomson and give it to heavy?

[compact tundra]

Don't let the devil on your shoulder tell you cloak and barrel, run grapple, sword, gateway, vanish bomb, tracking dart 😈

[hollow owl]

@slow linden get in line pal

[slow linden]

Bro has no angels on his shoulder 😭

[slow linden]

Skins that turn one firearm into another instead of just adding that firearm are dumb

[compact tundra]

Absolutely not

[hollow owl]

@slow linden but it’s cheaper and saves time

[compact tundra]

In all seriousness

• Dash
• M11/93R/V9s depending on preferred weapon type
• Gateway
• Vanish bomb
• Sonar

Is a good starter loadout

[slow linden]

It's not cheaper on the consumer,I don't want to buy Skins that are weapons that they could have just added,I want more eclipse shade and wacky goofy skins

Maybe more alfa acta home defense skins

[scarlet basalt]

My current loadout is grappling hook, throwing knives, tracking dart, gas grenade, and pyro grenade. But also thanks

[hollow owl]

@slow linden I don’t care what you want pal. I’m asking for a skin. And if they make it, message me and I’ll buy it for you

[compact tundra]

I usually tell newer players to avoid grapple until they have a solid grasp on game sense and understanding the finals movement mechanics but really just run whatever you find fun

[indigo nexus]

grapple is quite intuitive I think

[slow linden]

Most people don't want a Thomson skin,they want the Thomson to be added,just use the Thomson when it's added,buy the pipe bomb p90 skin when they add it,or the nailgun p90 skin because we'll probably never get a nailgun but I can see it as an smg skin

[sudden pewter]

Very simple to use for sure

[compact tundra]

It is but using it effectively is difficult when overwhelmed by the chaos of this game

Usually newer players get a lot more utility outta dash while learning the ropes

[indigo nexus]

I'm not sure how one would know that

[slow linden]

"Add a glock with a switch skin for the m11!!! 🤓"

[compact tundra]

Just for me dash is so spam-able that using it doesn't take much thought, but knowing when a fight is lost and having the game sense to just grapple away, or knowing how to mid fight close distance with grapple without making yourself an easy target requires a good bit more game knowledge and thinking capacity which for Ive found for the newer players I help is hard to muster when you're already so focused on just the chaos around you and the fight at hand

[sudden pewter]

Hear me out: Both specs aren’t super nuanced and are quite easy to use

[scarlet basalt]

I've gotten pretty used to the game I have 10 hours, and I got the game on Sunday but I find the grapple much more useful to get in and out of fights

[outer crow]

yea

[compact tundra]

That's fair, everyone is different. I've Just found with the newer to the game players ive played with they usually use dash to a higher effectiveness than grapple, cause it's just easier to get more potential effectiveness out of dash than grapple. Both are easy to use I've just found they often get more potential out of dash then grapple. But again that's just the few people I've worked with, everyone has different things click for them. Not trying to call you bad or anything btw, just I usually recommend dags while getting used to this usually chaotic game

[sudden pewter]

I’ve been using The Finals ASMR to sleep and every time I hear the double barrel I wake up crying

[scarlet basalt]

That is a fair point

[compact tundra]

Bro that just randomly reminded me one time of how I got diffed so bad in titan fall 2 that I threw my controller down and just went to sleep, like right there and then I just laid down and went to sleep

[sudden pewter]

I had a legendary crash out in Titan fall two that honestly altered the entire course of my life

The auto mantle got me onto a scorch that I meant to jump over and I died because of it and I have since forever been changed

[compact tundra]

I don't know what it is about that game but it creates legendary crash outs for everyone I've talked to who's played it. My worst was the sleeping one cause I was genuinely fuming so bad I had to sleep it off before I broke something

[sudden pewter]

No, I went straight monkey mode. I was screaming and hollering and whooping and shitting and pissing and slamming my monitor.

Never again

[compact tundra]

It's kinda even funnier to me cause I'm a scorch main and I completely understand what happened there

[sudden pewter]

Game of the year 2016 the Titan fall two is an absolutely amazing game and I’m very very sad that the CEO of respond died on Sunday

[compact tundra]

Yea I heard about that, a very sad moment especially given all the games he's worked on

[sudden pewter]

The man was brilliant and made amazing games when given the creative freedom he deserved very sad day for the industry

Titan 43 has probably died for the third and final time.

[compact tundra]

Even if he was still around I don't really trust modern EA controlled respawn to really make a game like titan fall 2 again, they've become too apex focused. Not a criticism of him, rather the trajectory the studio's been on

[unkempt moss]

Is it weird that i liked titanfall 1 more than 2.

[white parcel]

There was one time I went solo against a full stack who knew me and would go out of their way to tbag me and played every scum tactic you can think of, that pissed me off bad enough but the next match I ran into a guy abusing an invisibility exploit and I legit got a headache from how pissed off I was

[sudden pewter]

EA stands for eastern Arab now

[compact tundra]

This is one of my titanfall buddies I mentioned

[sudden pewter]

I should have played less Ronin and more Legion

[compact tundra]

I was a hard scorch main, my time stats in that game still baffle and confuse people

[white parcel]

Autism is a powerful tool

[compact tundra]

Ok fuckhead

[white parcel]

But you know im right

[sudden pewter]

He got you square in the jaw oml

[outer crow]

yep

[compact tundra]

Getting diffed by a white role damn 😭

[white parcel]

Oh im sorry your holiness, i should bow to my discord mod like a good kitten

[sudden pewter]

Channel Dead:
I personally believe Goo Grenade could lose a charge for a better CD. Having two charges is insane given how easy they are to get value out of. You just outsmarted a goo play? They’ve got another in their pocket.

[compact tundra]

Goo nade is weird to me cause it's not that meta in casual but it's genuinely so broken in higher ranks that it spawned a rock paper scissors situation at the majors with goo nade, aps turret, and data reshaper

[sudden pewter]

Lower ranks would rather bring a Pyro Nade than a Goo Nade aye

[compact tundra]

And I'm apart of that percentage

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-bite-orange-cat-orange-cat-attack-gif-10142361798712867466

[slow linden]

I haven't really crashed out at titan fall ever,I main stim with softball and coldwar,epg,smar,and I play ion and scorch

I just kinda have fun always

[white parcel]

I used to do the same, goo is interesting cause you have to be creative with it to get the most out of it

[sudden pewter]

Or, just throw it in front of a foe when you beef your melee/DB dive

[white parcel]

I dont think i have ever seen another softball main besides me, at least not on console

[sudden pewter]

Super easy to get value out of

[slow linden]

I would rather bring Pyro nade than rpg but I play a gimmick build

[compact tundra]

I was stim, grapple, or holo with softball, p20/re-45 and thunder bolt. And I hate mained scorch. But I mostly played lts and tdm so I played titans 90% of the time

[slow linden]

I play softball on console, I have the same name here as I do on Xbox

[sonic zephyr]

ngl embark should remove every weapon that doesnt straight up shoot bullets or is unconventional. not because i think they dont belong in this game, but because embark is afraid of pulling through and making them viable.

It creates this false promise of having this extended and diverse sandbox when in reality it really just boils down to what feels like the same 3 weapons

[white parcel]

They will have pry the grenade launchers from my fucking cold dead hands

[white parcel]

I dont think i have met you? To be fair its been a while since I played

[slow linden]

I forgot to mention I only run c4 and rarely gravity stars,also my anti titan weapon is the silly beltfed grenade launcher

[compact tundra]

I mostly ran elec smoke but C4 sometimes

[slow linden]

I used to play a lot a couple years ago,pop back in every couple of months

[compact tundra]

Tho I mostly played titans and for my scorch I ran extra mobility and wildfire launcher

[slow linden]

I like camping windows and getting people to get out of their titan to push me only to blow them up and use the other c4 to finish off their titan

[sudden pewter]

Not a phase-shift chad

[white parcel]

Thats very different I will say

[compact tundra]

I used it sometimes, I love doubling with the phase rewind special ability, but I liked stim the most

[slow linden]

I usually only did it to tones and monarchs

[white parcel]

Then you would hate me lol

[slow linden]

Well,no you would hate me,I loved doing it

[sudden pewter]

Meta-Mancer 🤮

Stim was probably one of the best ones tbh I did use it

[slow linden]

Stim was really fun

Cloak was kinda the worst??? I could always spot them

[white parcel]

Cause they kick up dust even with the slient jumppack kit and alot of maps lighting screws them over, I only ran it on one meme loadout for that reason

[slow linden]

The reason this was so effective is because I would use my stim to ping pong around a tiny ass room and they could just never hit me because not one soul runs explosive weapons on console for some reason,everyone's boring and runs the car

I basically play games to annoy and make the time of meta slaves miserable

[white parcel]

Good, I hate meta slaves especially the ones that get mad when other people dont wanna run the same boring meta

[slow linden]

Yeah,it really couldn't have been buffed tho,they should have tied it to a grenade rather than a class

[white parcel]

Like the vanish bomb?

[slow linden]

Nah just a toggle on the grenade slot

Imagine cloak stim

[slow linden]

Oh I forgot to mention I run the gambling card

[white parcel]

Oh...my...god

[slow linden]

Whole lotta uppercut for everybody

[white parcel]

Actual invisible mosquitoes

[slow linden]

Sometimes weapon amp

[white parcel]

My main loadout is softball, re45, charge rifle(for killing far pilots) and either extra battery or dice roll amp

[slow linden]

The fucked part is wildcard kept giving me the smart pistol one match to the point I was getting hate messages that I really don't deserve,the fuck am I gonna do,coin myself as soon as I roll smart pistol?

[white parcel]

Obviously yes, you should be ashamed

[slow linden]

Lmao

[white parcel]

Tbh i dont understand hating the smart pistol nowadays ti takes an entire slot and you cant reload it, plus your screen litteraly says "HEY SOME BUM IS LOCKING ON TO YOU TAKE COVER" and it takes a good bit to lock on anyway most weapons kill faster than it can catch you

[slow linden]

To be fair not needing to aim gives the average player a lot more freedom with their movement

[compact tundra]

I think it's just an ease of hate thing. It's easy to scream at the smart pistol user that they only go that kill cause the game aimed for them

[outer crow]

hate them too

[white parcel]

You are right, it does help focus on movement but its definitely not op, i just dont get the continued hate. Correct me if im wrong but didnt it lock-on faster at the games launch?

[slow linden]

I just didn't use smart pistol unless I rolled it cause I didn't really find it all that fun

It wasn't amazing,didn't do anything interesting,just shot bullets

[white parcel]

I will say its has one cool feature, it can lock onto grenades and blow them up mid air which can lead to some DISRESPECTFUL clips

[slow linden]

That is pretty cool but I prefer my softball

[white parcel]

Same, no game can match the feeling of sticking people with my softballs

[slow linden]

Cold war was really fun too

Nothing quite like shooting 5 energy bombs at someone with one trigger pull

[white parcel]

Its fun, and a movement test cause it sucks if you aren't above the person

[slow linden]

Yea,though I can use it on low ground if someone camps a window

[white parcel]

Epg is fun but I made fun of everyone who uses it cause I call it "baby's first grenade launcher" imo its the easiest of the 4

[slow linden]

For me it's the hardest oddly enough,I never was very good with it,the other launchers I was fine with

[white parcel]

I can see that, it shoots slow and has a slow projectile

[slow linden]

I end up hitting people's feet a lot and not getting the 1tap

Cause you can probably wall run faster than the projectile

[white parcel]

Yep, its very slow. I had a friend who loved the epg and we had a little rivalry going on for a while, she also mained Northstar and I mained tone so when ever we went against eachother it was just explosions and missiles everywhere

[slow linden]

I love parrying northstar and tone ults with ion

[compact tundra]

Oh shit I didn't know caff mained epg

[white parcel]

Yeah, she just didnt use it too much cause we had to sweat constantly

[compact tundra]

Fair

[white parcel]

Playing as ion against legion is the funniest match up in the game

[slow linden]

Legion can't do anything to ion 😭

[compact tundra]

I found the most effective strategy against ion as legion is to stay reved but just not shoot them and make them waste their shield, and when they drop shield, burst them a bit until they raise it again and repeat

[sudden pewter]

Can we talk about Tone or is that forbidden, better left in the past

[compact tundra]

Na I think it's cool, kyōryū mains tone

[slow linden]

Tone was annoying and a little overtuned but not as strong as everyone says he is,tones alright

[sudden pewter]

Incorrect take, you will be blood eagled

All my homies HATE tone

Bane of my existence

[slow linden]

The tone hate is a little forced,monarch was far better and more frustrating to fight imma be honest

[sudden pewter]

Monarch was a titan made for the PvE gamemode and they put it into PvP for whatever reason

[slow linden]

Monarch starting out is whatever,but all he has to do is snake like 2 kills and suddenly he's unbeatable

[sudden pewter]

God I miss Titanfall, it’s a fucking shame nothing will be done with the IP as long as Apex parades around wearing its corpse as a hat

[white parcel]

My tone runs off of your tears

[sudden pewter]

My younger sibling plays Apex religiously and holy fuck some of the skins are so far removed from the Titanfall aesthetic

[slow linden]

I pray apex's source code gets hacked and deleted

Genuinely a shit game

[white parcel]

Also my be a bit too soon, but Vince zimpela died today so definitely not likely to ever happen plus respawn now is not the same company as then

[sudden pewter]

Sunday

His Ferrari got slammed into

[slow linden]

All those cool abilities and characters could've been titanfall 3 classes let that be known

[white parcel]

Oh yeah im not in the US, timezones are wonky. I just heard about it today

[sudden pewter]

The other vehicle had its passenger fly out of the vehicle and die in the hospital, the driver died in the car fire as he was trapped in the car

[white parcel]

Holy shit thats awful

[sudden pewter]

Horrendous situation all around

[slow linden]

The typa shit I only wish upon p90 mains 😭

The fuck did bro do😭

[sudden pewter]

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/video-game-developer-vince-zampella-crash-call-of-duty/3819576/

[white parcel]

I gave up on the idea of tf3 a long while ago, not only would EA infest it with micro transactions in every corner of the game but respawn has this "we know better than our fans" mindset. Plus the lore is all fucked theres supposed to be multiple timelines apparently? Batteries can give supperpower or be litteral nukes? And they just parade titanfalls corpse around but clearly dont care about it

Probably a hot take, I like tf1's atmosphere vs tf2

[sudden pewter]

With EA’s buyout TF3 would probably have a Titan wearing a Burqa

[slow linden]

Not the halal food stall ran by a scorch

[sudden pewter]

I can’t trust an AAA Studio to actually retain style and gameplay in favor of milking a new non-existent fanbase by bastardizing artstyle to sell MTX

[white parcel]

💀💀💀

[sudden pewter]

My beloved Pathfinder was given a cat pajama onesie in Apex and I’m so glad I quit while I did

[white parcel]

Holy shit, im dying

@compact tundra fuck you im orange now

[slow linden]

Not the characters praying for an hour before each match 😭

[slow linden]

I don't know why this came to mind 😭

[compact tundra]

You may now post your drip in #🔥┇drip-check my kitten, you're welcome

[white parcel]

Tone, Northstar monarch, and ion have to wear a burqa and cannot leave the house without their husband

[slow linden]

Insane

[slow linden]

Their husband is scorch

[white parcel]

Holy shit, idk if its cause its 3am but im dying laughing at this

[compact tundra]

Holy shit mate, you main tone, caff mains Northstar, and ashy mains ion, I alone allow y'all out the house

[slow linden]

Lmao

[compact tundra]

Inshallah, I shall care for my harem

[white parcel]

Fuck

[white parcel]

And with that horrible thought im going to bed now

[slow linden]

This is so dumb

[compact tundra]

Rest well my sweet, you are my favorite of all my wives

[white parcel]

Kill me now, inshallah

[white parcel]

Also check your dm

[compact tundra]

This is what happens when I sleep 5 hours and that mother fucker stays up till 3

[white parcel]

YOU DO THE SAME THING ALL THE TIME

[spring spear]

ay tone wats this chump talkin bout some game where you steal cash

[sudden pewter]

My Ronin was G9 iirc and I think Legion was G7

[slow linden]

Titan fall, my favorite Muslim love story

[white torrent]

did they make it to where you take longer before you can act after winching someone

because your character legit takes 2 seconds to pull out a ks23 after winching

a light can run away and gun you down before you can even fire

[unkempt moss]

Hopefully.

[twin hinge]

bruh

[vivid scroll]

Bring back the stun gun

[unkempt moss]

That would equal the playing field against the almighty winch.

The stun gun is like 5% as good as winch so that's 5% closer to the lights being viable

[analog pewter]

winning match
enemy team leaves
backfill is the sweatiest fucking coordinated navy seal team I've ever had the misery to fucking endure

boy i love eomm that can even turn the pity matches into unendurable slogs

god forbid I ever have an iota of fucking fun

[hardy dust]

I think my ronin was like g15 and everything else like g1 😭

Scorch and northstar mightve been a tiny bit higher

[analog pewter]

i never rly liked playing in the titans. they're just cumbersome and the pilot gameplay is so much better

the power fantasy feels hollow to me

[sudden pewter]

You didn’t like playing the Titans, in TitanFall?

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-bite-orange-cat-orange-cat-attack-gif-10142361798712867466

[analog pewter]

the pilot gameplay is straight up just better, it's more deep and skillful
idrc about the spectacle mech battles

[unkempt moss]

I thought the same thing. Made me laugh.

[analog pewter]

doinking people with the softball at hihg speed is more interesting 2 me

what do yall think are the best weapons to synergize with goo gun
flame and sledge are two I think work fine but they're a little jokey of a combo. im thinking the automatics are probably pretty good and more serious. probably lewis and m60 since the large mags mean you can spray, goo, and go back to spraying without having to reload all the time?

i hope they give heavy a burst gun someday
like a burst rifle or smg
something high capacity

5 round burst smg with like a 35 mag capacity could be interesting ....

[unkempt moss]

Honestly I treat goo gun as my primary, so I've kinda learned how to play any of the weapons with it. The flame thrower is a real threat if you're half decent with googun

I prefer Lewis to m60 on it though.

You dont really goolock or anything with the autos. It'll kill your ttk. It's more of a survivability tool than an offensive one

But on the close range weapons it becomes more of an offensive tool.

[civic forum]

Quickthrow throwing knives need more velocity.

To help with accuracy while jumping or flying in the air

[unkempt moss]

Main thing with googun is it'll amplify your strategy regardless of what your playing.

[analog pewter]

just remove air bloom

there's no reason a weapon that has to account for drop and distance should also have to worry about random inaccuracy
the bow doesn't, and other projectile weapons barely experience this if at all

the CL-40 has a miniscule amount of bloom in the air while the throwing knives have a lot

[analog pewter]

i think it should be a universal rule for projectile weapons to not have bloom while airborne, excepting ones with a hitscan range like the SR and KS

[civic forum]

Throwing knives while in the air unless it is a heavy throw is almost unplayable. Im talking only about the quickthrows they deviate so much its awful.

[unkempt moss]

Let the KS have that bonus too

[analog pewter]

yeah, im talking about the same thing. the primary fire/M1
but they don't deviate if you're on the ground, afaik

[analog pewter]

that would require removing bloom from the KS which would be too far overboard

it's not supposed to be a ranged weapon

[tidal urchin]

You need to make the btr a tad bit more challenging to aim... the kill kims are stupid watching the effort of that gun

[vivid scroll]

If you disagreed with this I strongly dislike you

[wet night]

so I just had a moment where my revolver aimed on someone's head exactly just didn't hit them?

[eager wasp]

no reg, issue with shitty servers probably

[wet night]

joy

how does one flamethrower

[analog pewter]

was thinking about weapons in this game in terms of ease of use

the game seems like it has a bias toward hard-to-use weapons that's a little bit frustrating sometimes... I think my conclusion is that they should add more weapons that are middling-to-easier, to balance out an otherwise fairly challenging weapon list to use, and maybe look at some of the weapons that feel too punishing and see if they're worth keeping that way and if there's any way they can alleviate that.

like the revolver can probably keep its identity as being very feast-or-famine, but I think the bow could probably benefit from some minor reliability and ease-of-use improvements. Dagger just generally needs buffs, probably to its M1 to make it a more viable melee weapon outside of just backstabbing.

this is not really a reflection of their balancing point imo - e.g. I don't think the CL-40 needs to be nerfed; buffed even, but also redesigned a bit - but it does in some ways reflect balance - e.g. I would have rated the season 7 pike as "too forgiving" but changing the kill breakpoints the way they did turned it into a weapon that is way too punishing IMO. This is more a metric of if the weapon is in the right "ease of use" bracket, and thus if balance changes should aim to keep them feeling as "easy" or "hard" to use while adjusting their meta power

some of these i was iffy on. like are throwing knives too punishing? idk, i t hink the air bloom makes them frustrating to use, but they're also very spammable. but since they're projectiles, they're prone to unreliability, on top of the bloom. so maybe they could go to the too punishing tier? but I think they're still distinctly easier to use than the revolver or bow

I tried to think of these also in terms of like, if they're in their ideal situation. like the spear even in an ideal melee fight is a very punishing weapon and can easily lose from one missed swing, but the sword often wins fights if it can close that range and catch people out of position. the bow feels punishing even when it finds its ideal positioning, while the V9S is strong at almost any range and in almost any position

"tolerably forgiving/punishing" accounts for other strengths. like the flamethrower is very forgiving, but useless outside of its effective range/ideal circumstances, so its allowed to be "easy" since it can only leverage that ease of use contextually. same with the SH; it's super forgiving if you're in very close range, but otherwise does absolutely nothing

i wonder how the dagger would feel if its M2 did like 100 damage w/o backstabbing, so that even a missed backstab is still an opportunity

[wet night]

I think it would be better if it had a multi hit stab as M2. Basically rapidly stabbing the target. That way it can still kill, but if you miss you can always get more damage on a follow up

[analog pewter]

idk, I like the skill and tactics of going for a backstab, but I dont feel like TF2 spy tactics work well in this game where cloak is ironically visible and movement is a lot more audible
so I think the weapon just needs to be more forgiving?

[wet night]

I mean if it is ability reliant then they need to buff abilities potentially. like who really uses grapling hook

[unkempt moss]

Sorry I forgot this game was very serious.

[analog pewter]

im a grapple user 😔

ive been trying so hard to make grapple bow work
i generally feel that it's the bow part that's not pulling its weight, grapple feels really good to me

[wet night]

I think it needs two charges

[analog pewter]

nahhh that would be way too good
i think it should just have a shorter recharge based on how short the grapple is. so if you go only like 15 feet it should cut the recharge in half

[brittle turtle]

weapons are not catd

[wet night]

not yet

[eager wasp]

i think dagger needs the opposite, if its m1 were to be buffed more it would just become more of an m1 spam than it is for most dagger players

m2 needs its unreliable reliability back and its all good, but servers just suck so buffing it to be back to where it was originally before the backstab angle nerf is a good start

[analog pewter]

i think cutting people up with a kitchen knife is satisfyingly silly though

[obsidian nexus]

winch shak STILL PROBLEMATIC

[thick ravine]

hello

[turbid burrow]

HI

[lusty raven]

Bow should be moved to Medium. It feels wrong to have a slow-inducing weapon on supersquishy class that has to move around to survive.

On the other hand, Medium would benefit for a weapon to be paired with Healing beam. You pepper the enemy with arrows when your Heavy is ok and switch on and off the Medgun without the need to reload your primary...

Also Light already has a sniper, which is imho better and more suited to Light anyway...

[tiny glen]

winch dome pyromine and the rpg which traps u (dont remember the name)

[polar cedar]

famas in “too forgiving” when deagles are tolerably punishing is criminal

[hardy dust]

Also worth noting that this list can change a lot depending on the skill of opponents, where some weapons on the more forgiving side take a huge plunge to the punishing side. I also slightly disagree with some of the placements, but only by one or two tiers at most so imo its generally a pretty decent list.

[vale obsidian]

Been seeing this thing for the longest time now
I ignore it each and every time till now
How fix pls

[sonic zephyr]

something stationary like the turret doesnt work in a game like the finals. they should turn it into some kind of armed drone that you can reposition with the push of a button or so

[muted condor]

Just make it a mini gun and it’s fixed

[sonic zephyr]

i mean... yeah that could work too

[outer crow]

He sadly passed away 💔

[boreal laurel]

Interesting list, I would personally put ARN, P90, and Deagles up a slot and LH1 and minigun down a slot but that’s about it (minigun just because it is SO reliant on the team around it)

[sonic zephyr]

DB in tier 2?

Be slightly off target and you need another mag to kill

[abstract kestrel]

imo grapple shines with sr or arn

Thermite gun just got buffed too so now you can make sightlines more often and the smoke doesn't always completely blind you for 5 years

Bow is way better with dash because you can dash while you're drawing it

[compact tundra]

Na, the true best pairing with grapple is sword obviously

[civic forum]

Are we going to see the rework of the thermal optics anytime soon?

I tock a three month break from the game and it still has not been implemented back in.

[serene glade]

You will get minor damage changes and nothing else and like it

[compact tundra]

I think removing bloom from the ks-23 is exactly what it needs

🚨 Imo🚨
Ks-23 should have perfect hipfire accuracy and deal 110 per shot with no headshot multiplier and then keep the punishing reload. This way it keeps it's same breakpoints but they can be shortened with a qm which allows it to function a bit better at range but it shines in close quarters

This also makes it distinctly different from the D-eagles and titan which are very specifically long ranged headshot weapons

[sudden pewter]

It’s the only shotgun in the game with a hipfire penalty, on a shotgun that relies the most of any shotgun on accuracy

[unkempt moss]

The KS would feel so good if you made that change

[plucky spade]

Bro if db had a penalty it'd be extremely funny

[unkempt moss]

Next light nerf incoming

[civic forum]

What nerf would you put on light? Med and heavy are meta already. They are cannon fodder.

[sudden pewter]

Light (as an archetype) is fine, players are just stupid.

Dash could probably be looked at? Cloak is in need of a buff.

[wraith orchid]

wdym, spear is very forgiving since it's a melee, it's just...not the best 🌚

[civic forum]

Even light dash isnt that strong. It throws off aim but thats it.

Besides its easy to use flamethrower against.

Or my Ak

[unkempt moss]

I was joking about the db getting hipfire penalty

I beg for light buffs and heavy nerfs more than most lights.

[civic forum]

I do dislike so many methods on heavy but its is truely at its peak for the game. They def need medium and light buffs.

someone suggested wingsuits in the game.

[unkempt moss]

That'll translate to more lights running ahead of their team to die by firing squad before their team shows up I think.

[civic forum]

Thats a player problem not a class problem.

[unkempt moss]

Embark needs to focus on child proofing their game for lights as buffs. 95% of light players go got the deer in headlights strategy.

Like the winch has been a problem. We are never going to get lights to stop wandering aimlessly in front of the tank death machine and getting bagged. So we need to keep making winch worse until it fair for them.

[civic forum]

Again thats a problem with the player not the class.

[unkempt moss]

Tell that to the 95% of lights that play like that.

[analog pewter]

It's not a shotgun, it's a rifle in disguise

Mechanically its not a shotgun. It's not firing shot

[civic forum]

Gotta get some friends you coordinate with well. You cant stop a player from running off their leash.

[unkempt moss]

I play in a duo. Once we took on the mentality that every fight is a 2v3 we started winning a lot more.

Ive been playing light this week to see what's up and I realized more than ever that youre right. Its a player problem.

Over one week ive been winched twice, and both of them were my fault. For being out of position once and the other was I just came around a corner and got caught with my pants down.

Unjust recommended I try some light stuff and its been illuminating.

[civic forum]

Its about movement and cover

[unkempt moss]

Youre actually overstating it so much. Its literally about not being a dumbass. Its so easy to not throw on light. And maybe its because I play heavy so im used to having to play differently.

[civic forum]

Light is squishy and needs to rely on the team. Which is why running off on ur own is a bad idea. Third party kills.

[unkempt moss]

Its so easy to farm kills on light. My duo is on his MGL arc and we're still climbing insanely fast.

I cant believe the level of lethality on this class.

I will say, being allowed to one tap lights feels so good.

Playing bow is worth it just for that. Two tapping lights with Sword. Two tapping heavies with double barrel is fun as hell. So I get why people play the class.

[civic forum]

For any class people select it comes down to play style and tactics they like to use at the same time having game sense and knowing what your team is doing.

[unkempt moss]

I still think youre over complicating it.

Playing around your team makes it sound deeper than it is. You just wait for your team to start shooting and dont stand in front of someone. Thats worked all the way to plat so far.

[civic forum]

At the end of the day its about having fun.

[unkempt moss]

Were like 4k RS off diamond and then I'll probably go back to heavy. But its been a fun experiment

[serene glade]

Where is that at

[unkempt moss]

Yeah I was wondering the same thing.

Embark seems intent on sucking it out of the game.

[civic forum]

The entire game. There are so many ragers.

[unkempt moss]

Haven't you heard? Were esports now.

[muted condor]

Esports getting traction in a game ALWAYS leads to fun being removed

Exhibit A: R6

[unkempt moss]

I just dont understand the excitement of watching someone else play something you could just go play yourself.

[civic forum]

Still think a wingsuit idea isnt a bad one. Given to maybe all class. Have to gain height to use it. Slow drop.

[unkempt moss]

You can give light a wingsuit. Im just jaded now that ive actually spent some meaningful time on the build.

[serene glade]

I remember when they tried to make dead by daylight and are still trying to get an Esports community for it. If you wanna go full grassroots I respect it and that's fine. But having the developers fully back and support it while also balancing the game around and for it is the biggest mistake you could possibly make

[unkempt moss]

You sound like your favorite fighting games have been ruined by esports.

[serene glade]

[unkempt moss]

The discord plant is a racist btw

[civic forum]

Weapons and gadgets they could add. Chainsaw, throwing the spear, wingsuits, maybe a lower dmg impact nade.

Small lower damage drone that hovers or follows you for a bit.

Out of my suggestions throwing the spear would be a nice feature.

[ornate flame]

glue that you shoot on the ground to slow down enemy and prevents the enemy from jumping

and deringer as a gadget 2 shot low damage backup weapon

[spring spear]

ANOTHER SEASON OF ESPORTS COMING UP!

[civic forum]

Deringer would be cool. Secondary weapon on your hip.

[compact tundra]

God please no, that would be a hard melee counter and would kinda suck to fight. Plus all it does is boost the already good ranged weapons while making the typically bad close range weapons have a gadget as a counter

[ornate flame]

same thing could be said for lockbolt but people don't run lockbolt (other than me)

and maybe glue could effect different classes in a different way

[compact tundra]

Na I see the lockbolt used pretty often and the lock bolts actually pretty good, it does it's job well but more importantly has a distinct counter (breaking the anchor) and allows you to still move while lockbolted just in a limited space

[ashen hawk]

#JetpackForHeavy
insert bald heavy with a middle finger raised image

[compact tundra]

The idea sounds fun but adding movement to heavy just isn't a great idea, I unless that movement is the goo plane, then I'd drop to my knees and give Scotty the most devious grape fruit method imaginable to get it added back

[ornate flame]

W idea, give the jetpack 2 minigun that shoot down aswell

[ashen hawk]

goo plane would be more powerful than any movement gadget u could throw at them so idk the point of ur first argument

but that doesnt mean u shouldnt give heavies their rights (to make a goo plane) again

#BringBackGooPlane #GooGangRiseUp

[ashen hawk]

lmao i seriously cant tell if ur being serios or not

[ornate flame]

why not for a ltm it would be fun

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/get-rekt-boi-elmo-shot-execution-gif-15314352

[ashen hawk]

for an ltm but normal matches would be like "Satan is Here" game event too much chaos

[ornate flame]

ok how about a serious gadget idea i have

[muted condor]

If one more person asks for spear throw I’m going to go kill 10 solo players in Arc Raiders

[compact tundra]

I mean not really, the old goo planes weren't really controllable and required too much set up to really ever be viable, same thing with the new barricade UFO they just removed, requires too much setup to really ever be a problem. A jetpack would just be equiped and used

[ashen hawk]

maybe make a goo plane gadget then? like some kinda cube u throw that instantly glitches into a big bad goo plane

[muted condor]

Or let’s not give heavy a movement gadget

[compact tundra]

Na that kinda undermines the whole setup thing. I think goo plane was great because it was just unviable silly fun, making it easier to setup makes it more viable and creates a host of problems

[muted condor]

Grav cube is the max movement

[muted condor]

Embark seeing someone use fun sandbox tech in their self proclaimed “Dynamic sand box shooter”
(They are going to remove it)

[ornate flame]

A freeze grenade for medium, when thrown on a surface it turn the surface into ice, when players step on the icy surface they lose their mobility and it gets harder to turn or run because they slide on the ice, the frozen surface lasts for 15 or 20 seconds.

can be melted with fire

[ashen hawk]

bro i get ur point but this isnt mc. its a fast paced shooter, and set ups are usually long, so best thing is that they give u some kind of goo platform when u throw the cube and u just have to place the barricade and anti grav

[civic forum]

Freeze nade is a cool idea but that was why the stun gun was removed

[compact tundra]

You said make it a gadget that insta sets up the plane but I think that's too much, just bring back the old goo planes and it'd be fine. Casual silly fun is literally all we need out of goo planes

[frigid dagger]

How should i use the cb-01 repeater

[ornate flame]

it won't freeze players just surface and objects

[muted condor]

They should really not make any new gadgets and fix the fucking servers and hit detection

[ornate flame]

i think they should do both

[muted condor]

Embark can’t even fix a single weapon that has been trash and broken for over half the game’s life time. They definitely don’t have the ability to do both

[ornate flame]

you point and shoot, preferably from a mid range or long range

[ornate flame]

i am curious as to what servers they use for their games, are they using the amazon servers?

[muted condor]

Good question, what ever they are they suck

[civic forum]

Ice nade Yat is actually a good idea. They should add it.

[ornate flame]

yessir

[analog pewter]

i genuinely think this would be like, way too strong lol
110 on its own would bring the weapon up to like, high tier, no bloom would turn it into the best rifle in the game

[uncut zephyr]

did sword get buffed

[analog pewter]

i wish

[ornate flame]

no

[compact tundra]

I don't really think so, 110 doesn't change any break points outside of QMs and it still has a shorter falloff than all the actual long ranged weapons, I don't think it'd really change much outside of close range and finishing off already hurt targets

[analog pewter]

its gonna play better around all its teammates damage (as well as RPG splash or c4) and those QM breakpoints are extremely relevant to a weapon that already prefers to play in close range and is on a class with winch, lockbolt, and goo gun

any weapon that can deal 40+ and less than 50 damage in one shot/burst becomes a combo with KS which opens up a lot of ways for teammates to cover that 40 damage hole to kill a light.
I think 110 on its own might be an okay change but it needs the bloom to balance out that absurd damage

[serene glade]

Balancing weapons around 150 HP

[compact tundra]

Yes but they are still significantly lower than the breakpoints for headshots on both of its competitors. And with lacking headshots I think making it a solid close range option with a decent mid range is fine, maybe we could lower the damage past the falloff to make sure it isn't good at long ranged but I really think it'd be fine, plus no bloom would require higher accuracy and better aim, and if your good at those then the titan and D-eagles are better options then unless you like hip firing. Also the winch won't change any breakpoints since winch plus 3 shots on heavy still leaves you at 10hp

[compact tundra]

As for teammates, rpg, and C4, it's only adding 10 extra damage to light, 20 extra to medium, and 30 extra to heavy, presuming you hit all shots needed to leave them in qm distance, none of which terribly break this idea

[analog pewter]

i mean look at how the RPG suddenly got way stronger with just 10 damage

[serene glade]

It's legit the same. It's just placeb

[compact tundra]

I don't think it really did tho. I think it was an unnecessary change imo but didn't really change much

[analog pewter]

i just feel like by the same logic you could justify going up to 116 damage since it's still 4 shots to kill a heavy. its just ignorant to all the damage sources at play in a finals match, how often the strict breakpoints are less strict than on paper

[compact tundra]

Yea but your comparing the ks-23, a historically weak weapon that has underperformed greatly, to the Rpg, a hard meta gadget that is basically ran on every heavy load out especially once you get higher up the elo. Not to mention that the titan literally does everything ks does (except destruction) better, and that's on the class with C&S, RPG, and C4

[analog pewter]

this shit would just make KS-23 the poster child for power creep dude, i really cannot fathom believing this would be a healthy change

a 10% damage increase is substantial on a weapon that already has some of the highest per-shot base damage in the game. not having to worry about headshots is a blessing for the weapon because it can focus entirely on center-mass shot placement and consistency. more damage PLUS NO BLOOM would make it an even more oppressive version of the repeater while also having strong destruction utility

like you're being silly. the BFR needing headshots is one of its weaknesses, nobody is landing every shot to the head, and it can often kill in more shots than the KS-23 in practice while having less ammo loaded

[serene glade]

Weekly balance changes could let you see how broken something is for a week and then figure it out

[sudden pewter]

It’s way too easy for players trying finals to fall into similar habits they have from other games and cry out for buffs or changes that don’t need to happen because they’re incapable of self reflection

Recording your own games and reviewing them when you’re done for the day is hands down the best habit I can advise people to form

Also holy shit I’m late to the KS23 discussion

[shell sonnet]

true
but we shouldnt do that every other week, so that people can have a break from annoying stuff
or just a normal server that runs exclusively single round cashout, and it get all experimental changes at once

id play that

[analog pewter]

deagles are annoying the fuck out of me with how inconsistent they feel

[sudden pewter]

Heavies ranged potential was never intended to be as consistent as the BFR allows

Lewis has deranged horizontal recoil and the Akimbo’s have the CoF scaling with RoF

[analog pewter]

so surely you agree that a ks-23 with no base bloom and 110 damage would be ridiculous 😭

[sudden pewter]

Yeah

100 is fine and beyond 20m it acts as a projectile

[analog pewter]

I'd like to see it load one more round and/or fire a smidge faster than it does now

but like i feel like it's in a decent spot all things considered

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179603092187123823/1453494153152561225/Replay_2025-12-24_12-56-33.mp4?ex=694da76a&is=694c55ea&hm=159af39b1d84ba6505eee73c8f9ae57f238c1221e3bbbbd4308f5d0155ddf091&

can someone explain to me how the shots that landed weren't headshots
is the dispersion reticle THAT inaccurate? im so confused

like how on earth did i hit that low on his shoulder 😭

i feel like I constantly get robbed by the bloom on these

[eager wasp]

deagles are overrated, i hate them, thats why they are overrated

[analog pewter]

i mean
you never see pros use em 🤣

my hottest take is that the head hitbox in this game is too small and should be a little bit bigger

or they should make it so bullets do a hit-check after hitting the body to see if the bullet would hit the head if it traveled a bit further, and then count a headshot

the latter would solve the issue of shots placed at the head being body-shots due to arms/shoulders blocking them, and might help some weapons feel more consistent ...

for the amount of weapons that demand headshot precision it's crazy to me how tight the hitboxes are, and it's made more frustrating by how many cosmetics clearly extend outside that hitbox size by a huge margin. like the astronaut and alien helmets for example

or the hats with huge brims

or the ways things like wings just muddy outlines and make silhouettes harder to read

like you cant have cosmetics like these with such precise, tight hitboxes imo

[haughty jolt]

What is the meta on this season?

If it even exists

[analog pewter]

probably still winch/heal/dash with h+, defib, dome shield, goo grenades. SA12/SHAK, famas/repeater, M11, but I suspect the V9S might have replaced the 93R? and we might see mesh shield pop up

[eager wasp]

light: dash v9s glitch h+ gateway

medium: healbeam repeater/famas jumppad defib zipline/goo nade probably

heavy: mesh bfr/sa1216/shak rpg c4 dome shield

[analog pewter]

has mesh been elevated that much? is winch actually dead? aint no way

[rough beacon]

Not dead but forgotten for the most part I think

Professional Vengeance

[analog pewter]

been really excited for the model 1887 this season, it feels so good. I feel like now every match I use it, I perform well enough, I never feel limited by it and can leverage its strengths

it's never frustrating or cumbersome. crazy how just the reload change revitalized it so well

[rough beacon]

I always thought the old reload was weird not just because it was slow but it felt very clunky especially because it’s supposed to be a weapon where you can quickly reload in between battles

[grim steeple]

I'm using light , arn 220 , dash , suggest a funny gadgets to use doesn't matter if it's hard to use js should be fun

[analog pewter]

thermal bore

[grim steeple]

And ?

[analog pewter]

gateway, and frag

[grim steeple]

Nice 1

[analog pewter]

using the bore to create LOS for gate or frag depending on context, playing around the positions you can create with the bore

[grim steeple]

I bought dough wrangeler but it feels hard idk how ppl use it

It needs lot of aim and timing , it's so funny tho

[analog pewter]

im a big shotgun fan so I'm very used to just consistent center-mass shot placement
pacing your shots and good strafing helps a lot

also unless you're on controller don't bother ADSing, it doesn't increase the accuracy. you can move a lot better while hipfiring, so it's a very mobile weapon

[grim steeple]

Nah I'm using mouse and keyboard

[analog pewter]

aye yea so there's no benefit
on controller you get aim snapping so that's why you would ads

[grim steeple]

I'm forcing myself to use it i don't wanna waste 800 multibucks lol

[analog pewter]

i recommend goo grenade with it so you can control your sightlines

[grim steeple]

Do you have a bulid for Demat and model 1887 ?

[analog pewter]

yeah I use defib, goo, jump pad
it's kind of the meta loadout but with demat instead of heal and model instead of repeater

[grim steeple]

Thats the bulid I'm using lol

[analog pewter]

ahhh lmao

[grim steeple]

Demat is the best ig cus you need to run away when you finish the ammo

[analog pewter]

yeah i started playing the game as a demat medium and I just can't put it down. it's great with model because you can create close quarters fight with good flanks

[grim steeple]

Yeah

[analog pewter]

sometimes i swap defib for frag if my teammates are doing well enough not to need the rez or if they're consistently dying in positions i cant defib them

[grim steeple]

Also the Demat is very helpful with stealing

[grim steeple]

How can you use frag ?

I mean it needs timing and the enemy can dodge it easily

[analog pewter]

I like to use it when fleeing with a goo, throwing it either over the goo or on the same side so anyone chasing me risks eating a frag while navigating the goo. also with demat you can use it when creating a LOS on an objective. similar principle to using it with thermal bore

[grim steeple]

I see a lot of ppl use it but still don't understand why is it good

[analog pewter]

frag isn't for killing but for forcing a scramble and denying space briefly. nobody wants to step on a frag

[grim steeple]

Smart use

[grim steeple]

So you need to think a lot in the fight thats tuff

[analog pewter]

Sometimes it can kill though, if you force someone into a position they can't escape. It's great for checkmating people who are preoccupied fighting your team

[wet night]

it has been like 3 years they really need to buff cloak

[plush ermine]

wasn't cloak really good few seasons back?

[hardy dust]

Yeah

Then embark gutted it so everyone swapped to dash

[analog pewter]

Didn't we see some Cloak at tgm

[sudden pewter]

Games on its second anniversary so it hasn’t been 3 years but yes it needs attention

[wet night]

I have no idea I took a break about the time the third battle pass came out

[plush ermine]

I belive they actually nerfed cloak lol

[wet night]

They should treat it like reaches stealth. If you stand still no one can see you or hear you at all but if you move it starts to drain the duration and it is easier to find you

@sudden pewter would you kindly explain your position?

[fiery thunder]

Cloak/Invis, I swear is the most hit or miss thing ever. Sometimes, I cannot see them at all, and other times, it’s piss easy to see them

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[wet night]

That or the game bugs and for the player it doesn't show it ended but for the enemy it ended and they see you move

So nothing to support your opinion just you no like see through people

[analog pewter]

I wish this game had a wall jump but I have no idea how they could implement it. Like naturally for light but....a spec? Idk

[wet night]

Like a parcore time frame, similar to cloak. It lets them wall run, wall jump and auto volt smaller obsticales. It also gives them a small boost in movement speed when running forward.

[analog pewter]

Just put it on cloak lolol

I think it would be cool if it was a spec that's refilled by dealing weapon damage

So you can keep it active by fighting aggressively

[wet night]

Maybe not with dealing damage but on kill. unless you are using a melee weapon

[analog pewter]

I think on damage is fine personally bc light's job isn't to immediately kill but play a harassing game and split attention

[cunning slate]

should the Super Shorty be a gadget weapon, or a light weapon? I'm torn between the Benelli M4 and the Super Shorty.

[wet night]

The sonar sensor sound is playing in my head non-stop. Send help

[red jay]

Could the sword get some holiday cheer next year?

specifically, maybe the cardboard tube from a roll of wrapping papper maybe with a little torn strip of wrapping paper down it? make it make the hollow "woosh" noise when swung and the cardboard tube "bonk" when it connects?

also, maybe holiday skins for utilities? not just for Christmas but all of the holidays in the game? Just thinkinf of dash (my main) would be sick to just disappear into a wind gust of snow in winter or a poof of smoke and bats during Halloween

[idle sparrow]

Effects on utils such as dash would give the player a competitive advantage and be confusing imo

[analog pewter]

Weapon for sure

I think it could be a skin for the model, with a unique animation set

Pump action and lever action are in gameplay terms the same mechanic, and they both load a tube mag one shell at a time

[cunning slate]

cerb, they are often only 3 shots

[analog pewter]

Hmm
The reload would need to load the tube with 3 rounds at once when empty wouldn't it
The animation differences might be weird

I think a pump action of some kind over the model would be cool. Maybe the Ithaca?