💣┇weapons-gadgets

[muted condor]

And I can’t stand no lives like him

They kill gaming

[stoic garden]

👍

[plush harbor]

Bad developers and companies kill gaming, not people who play games too much

[stoic garden]

embark be killing the game by not nerfing pike

[muted condor]

If you’re top 500 of a game your opinion should be ignored

[brazen mango]

I too love accusing people of cheating that I dislike, very mature

[steel ether]

G

[muted condor]

Womp womp

[plush harbor]

yea fuck u hacker u cheat hard

[brazen mango]

yeah this was the clip i got accused over btw

[stoic garden]

I've never played ranked, my opinion is that you're not very sound right now

[stoic garden]

you reload between kills you must be cheating

[plush harbor]

lol this is simply good recoil control on good timing of said recoil

[lucid marsh]

Damage is fine. Increase recoil or make the hip fire useless. There’s no reason it should be able to basically snipe you and also behave as an auto shotgun in close range

[muted condor]

Top 500 players are completely out of touch with reality and the outliers and should not be considered valid when balancing game changes are made

[plush harbor]

I can control recoil fine but I am not good with the timing of first bullet + pulling down

[stoic garden]

kills faster than fcar
yea dps is fine dw about it guys

[muted condor]

This applies to every game

[plush harbor]

this applies to bottom 500 too like you

[brazen mango]

my former top 500 ranked stack consisted of a dagger and a spear player but keep yapping

[muted condor]

No one asked

[lucid marsh]

I’m not a huge fan of damage nerfs and buffs when there’s 25 other variables the devs can adjust

[brazen mango]

they hate the truth

[stoic garden]

they should adjust rpm at least, I'm not saying damage specifically

[wary cliff]

cooked with this. people STILL USE the fcar though because of the satisfaction of beaming the hell out of someone. no other gun does that other than xp…

[plush harbor]

Damage for pike is finnicky
Just nuke rpm and recoil

[muted condor]

No I hate no lives

[lucid marsh]

Medium the most broken class quote me

[stoic garden]

brother you no life this channel every single day

[stoic garden]

you would not be wrong i guess, but we're not that far from a balanced game if embark locked in (they will never)

[muted condor]

Yeah, I’m at my job waiting for work to come through

[brazen mango]

I work 40+ hour weeks and I held top 500 while actively serving my country as a member of its military, I dont nolife anything, I just focus my time on things I like and am good at :)

[lucid marsh]

Honestly beyond fixing a few bugs (riot hit box) and some minor balancing I agree. Defib should be deleted tho lol then the classes will finally be balanced

[wary cliff]

ruby tracking dart owner why don’t you and i have intercourse

[brazen mango]

you can see the spear and dagger in these clips :)

[wary cliff]

also brogon or whatever your name is… i wanna know your stats so i can see the type of player that is consistently refuting every single one of my points

like i’ve been top 500 and consistently diamond since s1… why is it YOU specifically that’s hating so much

[muted condor]

Because I feel like it

[muted condor]

Being a hater is free

[stoic garden]

being kind pays you back

[muted condor]

Naw that’s costs to much

You have to actually hold to your opinions consistently

[brazen mango]

idk it does make me kinda happy knowing I have these stickers AND I understand melee better than you do in this game, considering ive played with the 2 best melee players in this game and I do understand the pain points a lot better than most people

[muted condor]

Dang the sad life 9000 sticker

[brazen mango]

the collection is cool but I unfortunately wont be getting a ruby sticker again until im done serving in may next year

[stoic garden]

why do we keep talking to this dude anyway

[muted condor]

Great question

[stoic garden]

it's clear he's here to hate and not want to reason, let's just stop?

[brazen mango]

I do think its very funny

[muted condor]

Iv got nothing better to do right now so im seeing how long we can go

[stoic garden]

i see

[muted condor]

Tomorrow I’ll probably be hating on heavy and winch

[stoic garden]

fair

[brazen mango]

im glad I dont hate casuals the way some casuals hate me for just being good at FPS games, I just cant comprehend the idea of hating people you dont even know ngl, being kind and non judgmental is free

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1222250330545455207/1399112894972559440/ezgif-39d97bfc094c3c.gif

[stoic garden]

crazy about me btw

[muted condor]

Hating and spreading negativity is also free

[stoic garden]

who asked

[muted condor]

You’re mom last night

Minor spelling mistake 😔

[brazen mango]

your*

[stoic garden]

more self damage than cl40

[brazen mango]

pick up a book at least if you're not working bub

[thick holly]

Honestly yeah I feel the same, I'm just here to have a good time and I wonder how many people just absolutely hate me

[stoic garden]

my teammates hate me cuz I'm bad 💔

[brazen mango]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/240196923644968960/1375963428887204041/what.gif

[stoic garden]

😟

[brazen mango]

idk I just cant comprehend it, how are people this insecure that they dislike others for simply being good at something

[plush harbor]

I’m unemployed

[stoic garden]

employ yourself NOW

[thick holly]

To help with some context, i main riot shield and have been doing so since season 2 lol

[plush harbor]

Sorry I value my freedom as a teenager

[stoic garden]

i hope you starve ☺️

[brazen mango]

my original S2 ranked stack was with the best riot shield player in the game at that time (and probably still now even though he doesnt play the game actively anymore)

[stoic garden]

who? i might know them

[brazen mango]

Troop (Stop_Resisting)

[thick holly]

I should probably practice riot shield more, I just like it because it matches my sort of playstyle

[stoic garden]

troop (not the cheater)

[restive plover]

REMOVE EVERY GUN BUT MY BELOVED AKM ❤️❤️❤️

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT AKM

[stoic garden]

akm nationalism

[restive plover]

I unfortunately am not cool enough to react with emojis but have a heart twin ❤️❤️❤️

[plush harbor]

@brazen mango i want the ruby token system to come so I can swap dogshit famas for goated ak

[brazen mango]

thats something they said they are working on right

[stoic garden]

yes they have

not sure when, but eventually...

[plush harbor]

Yeah
Horrible system… BUT I can get the chance for ruby ak

[brazen mango]

im kinda worried im gonna miss out on ruby SA12 when Heavy is in rotation again because I will be serving my 19 weeks service period at that time so I hope its a thing before that

[brazen mango]

nah its good, they should just keep the seasonal numbers on them as a "released in" kinda deal, as long as they dont bring back Open Beta Diamond Skins im completely fine with that

[plush harbor]

rip my chances of diamond m11

[brazen mango]

getting a ruby weapons for your main class every 3 seasons genuinely feels like ass, especially when the GADGET isnt even for your main class either

[indigo nexus]

Huh, must have forgotten to change that when that was updated. Never noticed until now. Thanks for pointing it out

[plush harbor]

Also please for the love of god, silver-ify the custom scope additions on all Ruby weapons

[brazen mango]

I used it a lot in cashball since we grinded that when it came out, its fun but I just enjoy tracking weapons too much

[plush harbor]

Ignore diamond or whatever idc just do it for Ruby

[brazen mango]

wdym I love this

[indigo nexus]

I think people have said this for every single season

[thick holly]

Fair enough. I've just never been good at FPS games, and riot shield has been the only weapon that allows me to keep up. Plus my processing speed was really slow at first, so it really helped me to stay alive

[placid slate]

thus the spawns are fine every season

[muted condor]

Fair actually

[brazen mango]

lowk so sexy I wanna start playing this game again just for the ruby skins

they cooked so hard with ruby lewis and XP

[stoic garden]

i wonder what they would taste like

[thick holly]

I just wanna try to get Emerald 2 lol

[plush harbor]

Wish the silver had Damascus like the Ak did

[stoic garden]

no problem, sorry for being slightly toxic about it

[brazen mango]

genuinely nothing shameful in not being the best at FPS games, there is a lot of people better than me, I personally just enjoy playing against the best of the best, but I dont think its any more "justified" than people who just play FPS games to have fun and enjoy their time

[thick holly]

Mhm

Like my first actual experience with the game was in season 1. My friends knew I didn't like FPS games, so we just went around destroying the map with sledgehammers

[brazen mango]

part of the reason why I dislike the sentiment people have of "comp players are toxic" is because a lot of the greatest people ive met in this community are dedicated comp players, several of them are by now signed and player under org names in pro league and the upcoming major

[thick holly]

most of S1 for me was just me messing around since I didn't think I'd enjoy the game. But at the end of the season my friend suggested I try riot shield. At that moment the game just changed for me and it became so fun

[plush harbor]

this game made me good at fps games
coming from battlebit I was a “top” player (good at pubstomping but nothing more) and I had like a 1.3kd my first season or two of playing
I’ve poured time into this game and now im good in most fps games + 2.5kd with 80k kills in this game

[thick holly]

Nice

[placid slate]

im not sure if gelz is a comp grinder but that mf is pretty chill, helped me test some shit

[thick holly]

I think that statement mainly comes from people who try way to hard to be competitive when they don't need to be

[brazen mango]

havent interacted with gelz in a while besides that one time last weekend when they got mad at me for griefing them out in a world tour, not a comp grinder tho no, dagger doesnt see play in comp

[plush harbor]

I griefed out lycommit the other day with smoke thermal m11 and pinged him in apez cord and said gg

shit was peak 🔥 🔥 I had him the previous wt round too

[muted condor]

Also most the hate is probably directed at streamers and the top ranks get caught in it

[brazen mango]

the few people who stream this game are some of the kindest people ive ever met online, you are just toxic and judgmental of people you dont know if you hate them across the board

[thick holly]

Yeah like I've been watching a few streamers and they have all been really chill

I've mainly been watching Combo and WaterDance

[brazen mango]

there is a lot of great people who stream this game both casually and comp wise

[thick holly]

Mhm

[brazen mango]

if you are interested in looking into the comp side of things a bit you should give Bizzy a shot, really chill guy with a great community and he's a signed pro player rn

[thick holly]

I'm not too interested in competitive, but I'll definitely give him a look

[stoic garden]

bizzy is kind of the king

every video he posts at least one person complains about his light teammate (stewj) abusing controller aim assist

so you know they're good 👍

[placid slate]

so sad that bro is no longer bricked 🙁

[brazen mango]

still waiting for BURTS to come back and the NA team gap to increase by 10x what it is now

[stoic garden]

you mean they're even better?

[brazen mango]

Than current Envy?

[stoic garden]

current comp kings idk who

[brazen mango]

Probably not as of right now, but BURTS have Swako

[thick holly]

I don't even really know what the pro scene looks like, all I know is that demat is the only medium pick lol

[stoic garden]

medium sadly has near zero loadout variety rn

[brazen mango]

Aimerz and Pulsar in EU, ENVY, ED and NTMR in NA

[stoic garden]

oh ok

[placid slate]

general teamcomp rn is LMH, and the main counter to demat is also demat, that and healbeam is no longer the only heal option

[brazen mango]

And Alliance ofc

[thick holly]

I know I'm never gunna get into playing in the competitive scene. I know how I am and that would just ruin any enjoyment I have of the game

[thick holly]

I'm assuming lights are the main healers now?

[placid slate]

bro i was watching the grand finals for EU a bit ago, mfs tried to pull some wackass shit on nozmi its crazy

[brazen mango]

Out of 6 best teams 5 are org signed rn, scene is growing

[placid slate]

not main healer, they just have the h+ on hand since its very good util

[thick holly]

Yeah

I typically play heal beam when I play medium, I just enjoy playing support the most

And since I'm playing casual, who cares if it isn't the best pick lol

[brazen mango]

Winch, demat and dash only, we used to have more variety but embark decided to nerf mesh, heal beam and cloak season by season until all 3 are kinda dead picks now

[placid slate]

also demat is stupid busted and only is countered by itself

[brazen mango]

I dont play comp myself since I literally cant anymore, but I still follow the scene

[thick holly]

I think it would be nice if demat had like a .5 second delay before it opened, but I could be entirely wrong

[placid slate]

mesh would be used if winch didnt hit through it

[thick holly]

Anyways I gotta head out, nice talking to you guys

[brazen mango]

Yeah

Cloak would be used if it wasnt so easy to spot and every class had hard counters

[placid slate]

grapple kinda has its long range movement niche replaced by gateway in the pro scene too

[brazen mango]

Well grapple would never be good, it sucks in teamfights

[stoic garden]

i wish they made it so you couldn't pinpoint their location with tracking gadgets but still pinged, but embark may fear cashout cloak campers might become rampant!

or they didn't think about it at all and just want it dead

[brazen mango]

we just need TF2 cloak

[stoic garden]

how does it work

[placid slate]

i dont think most peoples immediate thoughs up against cloak is to bring sonar or proxy sensors so it wouldnt be too bad

[brazen mango]

no audio while moving, completely invisible, but you cant run and gun instead you have a cloak and decloak timer, and remove thermal

[brazen mango]

cloaking and decloaking has a loud audio and takes a short amount of time, but you dont make sound and are completely invisible while moving, and you cant do anything while being invisible im p sure

[stoic garden]

dang, cloak but consistent and counterable with good reaction time????

[brazen mango]

they would have to remove thermal for that to work though

which they could because there is no skins for it anyway

[placid slate]

thermal isnt that bad enough to have to completely remove it

[prime agate]

thermal is only good with smoke personally

[restive plover]

It hard counters cloak with zero counterplay outside of just being really far away and does fuck all otherwise.

[deep karma]

TF2 cloak does have footsteps I believe that you can track if you're nice with it.

[deep karma]

But then cloak inside smoke hard counters thermal which is really silly, haha.

[placid slate]

smoke removes the thermal vision, then cloak removes the regular visiblity

[swift cradle]

Remember pike was nerfed below 50 and it fell off the map.

And same thing happened to lh1 after dmg nerfs. The dmg is crazy, but like... it's supposed to have the better dmg from range honestly.

[placid slate]

doesnt help that they buffed the shit out of the 93r and arn

[swift cradle]

Thermal is a good pick. Not as much now that cloak was nerfed.

But it's good for being able to see through all the clutter and smoke.

If they didn't nerf the range on it, it might be a bit od, imo.

[boreal laurel]

Careful saying that—I have one or the other of those two gadgets on every cashout build I own 😎

[deep mason]

https://youtube.com/shorts/qpmgSX-WVWQ?si=-0kD6RFYHhEnHRCo

[weary eagle]

Other way around you mean

[little pumice]

Can we increase the damage of the spear again? It can't be that I need three hits for an L and four hits for an M.

[young sundial]

Extended mag as an attachment (if they add more) would be cool.

[stark fjord]

SBMM is fucking miserable. I hate playing WT.

[plush harbor]

Good thing there is no sbmm

[stark fjord]

Yes there is. It's right there I can't believe you can't see it.

[plush harbor]

There is absolutely no sbmm in world tour

[stark fjord]

Yes there is. The developers told me so themselves.

[plush harbor]

If it’s your first wt match, throws you in a bot lobby. If you lose too many in a row, same thing. If you aren’t a steaming pile of dogshit you get thrown into the gulag where everyone else is

[keen igloo]

it came to me in a vision

[stark fjord]

No, they make your matchmaking skill based and it messes everything up. The developers said exactly that.

[slow arch]

Is it SBMM, honestly cant see it. Other team always way too good and my team just found out how to use a controller

[gleaming aspen]

do yall run grappler with sniper or

[prime coral]

Grapple is usually the normal thing to run. But, I could see some viability for Dash or Stealth.

[gleaming aspen]

i c ty ty

[frozen bone]

dash is very effective if you like small range snipong

[slender bear]

The fact that they aren't planning any specs until season 9-10 is concerning.

They already said they're planning on adding less gear to prevent bloating, but that means we're going to have a very disappointing 2 year anniversary, with less gear than usual and no new specializations.

[lucid marsh]

riot shield hitbox abuse is insane rn in ranked

every lobby half the teams have at least 1 shield

[deft rune]

fr, who thought it needed a buff? next they'll buff medium swords or something dumb

[narrow aspen]

is it cap or did I hear they're adding a wallrunning gadget?

[winter jay]

Where did you hear it

[narrow aspen]

some dude on instagram

it was in a comment section on a clip

if I find it again I can link it but im not even sure where id find it again

[hoary patio]

The range on the flamethrower should be increased to 13m at least so it can keep up with the meta

[gleaming linden]

would probably break powershift if it got that buff

[hoary patio]

No it wouldn’t the flamethrower can reach over half the platform it wouldn’t break power shift at all

[blazing cradle]

They should add a dual swords skin thats just wolverines claws

[brazen mango]

Or use a real gun

[brazen mango]

It shouldnt be outdueling ARs up close, its a DMR

[hoary patio]

That would be something a light player would say

[brazen mango]

Im glad I mostly play Heavy now I guess, also this "hurr durr light players 🤓" is really corny

[hoary patio]

Flamethrower is just satisfying to play especially those after death kills

[brazen mango]

Increasing its range to be longer than winch claw range would just be blatantly broken lol

Are we aware how much 13m in this game is

[hoary patio]

The flamethrower has 9m of range so yes 13m wouldn’t be broken also you have to predict where the enemy is going to be when the flame hits 13m

[brazen mango]

You literally wouldnt be able to directly engage a flamer with half the weapons in this game, including every single melee weapon

How is increasing its range by nearly 50% not broken

[hoary patio]

That wouldn’t be true it depends on the melee player if a noob sure but a pro no. If the flamethrower user in the right hands would make people think it’s broken.

[brazen mango]

💀

We dont need to make very easy to use weapons even easier to use and as a result add even more hard counters

[hoary patio]

Db invis dash db but that’s not broken right?

[brazen mango]

DB and Invis no because cloak is terrible

Dash DB is extremely low effort and annoying nobody argues with that

[muted condor]

Flamethrower is one of the easiest weapons to use so buffing it seems like a bad idea

[hardy dust]

Flamer doesn't need a range buff

[hoary patio]

If the h infuser and healing emitter weren’t a gadget I wouldn’t be asking for buff but nope embark decides to add healing items

[hardy dust]

A better buff to flamer would be stuff that synergizes with it

[muted condor]

The H+ is the only healing causing problems currently

[brazen mango]

You can throw away the heal ball and infuser is healthy for the game

https://tenor.com/view/fadding-pikachu-gif-15534172931515664750

[hoary patio]

The game didn’t need more healing it was a pointless update

[muted condor]

Personally I think flamethrower should stay a “low skill” weapon that is mostly out classed

[weak kernel]

give the flamethrower one patch where it's really annoying- as a treat

[hoary patio]

You shouldn’t be able to steal cashouts while being h infuser it’s the most stupid item in the game

[hardy dust]

Fair, it should be a niche option, but viable if you put in effort.

[muted condor]

Having tools for struggling players that doesn’t give them an edge over skilled players is healthy

[weak kernel]

then nerf it to be worse than it was originally as is tradition

[muted condor]

They H+ just needs some work

[hoary patio]

It needs to be removed

[muted condor]

And medium needs a healing gadget

[weak kernel]

little bit funny that the minigun pretty much instantly got buffed further than it perhaps needed to be because it didn't fulfill the minigun fantasy of mowing down everything in sight, but the flamethrower's sat in "kinda wack short range videogame flamethrower" territory this whole time

[muted condor]

I like the idea of the H+ having only a few slow fire rate shots that do healing over time

Won’t see a rework for it any time soon tho

[brazen mango]

Minigun doesnt let you move around a lot and also takes at least basic levels of tracking, neither is the case for flamer

Flamer has always been a gimmicky weapon that deserves to stay gimmicky because its a casual crutch

Its an SA12 that takes infinitely less skill to use

[muted condor]

Mini gun also gives you aura points so it’s better

[weak kernel]

feel like a well-executed flamethrower in a game gives you more style points than a minigun, like the ones in BF1/BFV or RS2

but yeah I would accept a rework or buff because I don't really care if gimmick weapons are temporarily good but I also don't care if it stays in irrelevancy where it's at

never really seemed like it's in an unusual place balance-wise

[brazen mango]

There is a million cheesy casual player traps in this game that could be reworked to be more skillful and useful at the same time, flamer, DB, Cloak, Sniper, Charge and a lot of other shit

[sudden pewter]

Clearly the answer is increasing the range of the flamethrower and adding an alternate fire where it shoots fireballs or some shit

[weak kernel]

sprays gasoline puddles you can ignite

[sudden pewter]

Me when I pee:

[muted condor]

Rework it to work like a irl flamethrower:)

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/437863525965365249/1399490368285835475/mauzy.carrd.co_watermark_dupecut_20fps.gif

[brazen mango]

Cloak is probably the biggest offender of nobody liking its state, neither casual or comp

[muted condor]

Can we agree that both are unhealthy?

[sudden pewter]

I personally don’t have any issues with Winch. But I wouldn’t mind seeing it changed

[muted condor]

I like the state of cloak, gives me free kills on people that use it lmao

[brazen mango]

Winch shouldve been reworked to not go trough shields in S3 but embark devs believe heavy is in constant need of a oneshot button since S1, used to be RPG (and nukes), and since S3 it was winch

[sudden pewter]

Isn’t Winch heavies only quick answer to shields?

On that note, Medium doesn’t have an answer for shields at all

[muted condor]

CnS the shield like a real heavy player you coward

[sudden pewter]

But I’m winching my hog

[weak kernel]

i don't really think you can avoid shit being defined as a "casual trap," lot of casual players wish they were playing battlefield and didn't have to deal with anything obnoxious and unconventional up to and including the entirety of light build

[sudden pewter]

CoD mindset is real

[muted condor]

I don’t like light players on my team personally

I’d rather fight them than medium

[brazen mango]

Glitch nades or you can just shoot them, nearly every gun in this game can fry a mesh shield in one mag lol

[sudden pewter]

Tru

Save mesh though afaik?

[brazen mango]

Just shoot it, it only has 750 HP and 225 is lost when they drop it, mesh is so easy to play against

[muted condor]

Should medium or heavy get glitch grenades?

[sudden pewter]

No

[brazen mango]

Mesh is already bad, it doesnt need a hard counter in the form of winch

[sudden pewter]

I’m 100% bias fyi I love winching cocky lights

[muted condor]

I feel like it might be busted but at the same time it’s kinda doo doo that light is the only one with them

[brazen mango]

Hell naw

[sudden pewter]

Heavy can’t have mobility so on demand displacement is “healthier” in terms of balance for Heavy

[brazen mango]

Glitches already need to be nerfed to 1 charge, we dont need to move the balancing issue to yet another class, ESPECIALLY not medium

[muted condor]

True

I just really don’t like that the number one answer I get to “how do you fight X?” is to just use the gadget locked behind one class

[brazen mango]

Its not, not how embark designed it, winch is a terribly designed hook ability

Winch might be the worst designed hook ability in any FPS/Shooter

[sudden pewter]

shitting and crying
Oh so you just wanna take my toy??? You just hate Heavy admit it!!!

[muted condor]

Dash, demat, winch
The three horse men of making all the other specs look ass and forcing weapon nerfs

[sudden pewter]

Idk if we lose the on demand displacement I’d like some other form of utility to balance it out

I’d still like to be able to pull things(even if it needs to charge first)

[brazen mango]

Make it not go trough shields, remove the rebound hitbox so it cant pull people on the way back after you missed it

[muted condor]

Same, I like throwing cash outs

Honestly that’s why I even use winch at all

[weak kernel]

winch sometimes feels like it was a patch-fix to heavy losing so much of their early apelike damage output and the result of casual players perceiving heavy as weak

[sudden pewter]

Pulling a dead homies statue while staying behind cover is always cool

[brazen mango]

It 100% is this, you are completely correct :)

[sudden pewter]

Heavy isn’t weak Heavy just slow and dummy thicc

[muted condor]

I had a level 70 team mate have his mind blown by seeing me do that 😭

Bro was a few under hours in and didn’t know winch could grab objects

[sudden pewter]

Shorter cooldown when you grab something that isn’t a player

Buff lights

[weak kernel]

i've said this before but the game at large feels like it's hovering in casual/competitive limbo where you have parts of the vocal casual playerbase that want it to be a more straightforward brain off casual shooter like BF and parts of the vocal competitive playerbase that want it to be a less gimmicky tracking-centric mobility shooter like I dunno, dirty bomb or something

i saw this video titled "do you even like the finals?" and a lot of the most common complaints remind me of that

[sudden pewter]

Bro Dirty Bomb was the shit

[indigo nexus]

Is this not virtually every PvP game?

[sudden pewter]

God I miss it so fucking much ugh

[indigo nexus]

If it did not meet this description, it would be taking an absolutist approach for some reason

which I think would be stupid, quite frankly

[sudden pewter]

I consider myself a competitive casual player. I aim for improvement but I play for fun.

[indigo nexus]

I think that also applies to almost every player

[weak kernel]

some more than others, like I don't think most people are begging for deadlock to remove all of the depth or begging for COD to suddenly become a much deeper and more complex game

like it sticks out for me here because I enjoyed finals a lot because it was a game people played sweaty that also had a lot of funslop sandbox gimmicks in it, and to this day a lot of the bitching feedback rings as "i don't like that this game is what it is"

[brazen mango]

People do like the sandbox elements of this game when it comes to comp, they just want things to be more balanced with comp in mind instead of things being changed to HURT comp play

SA12 getting nerfed when it had a less than 5% pickrate while other guns hovered at 15% or more

[sudden pewter]

Erm but it had too much range!!

[weak kernel]

yeah but i've been seeing people lately saying goo nade has to be one charge because it's obnoxious as fuck on demat medium and even if that's true that would be a huge nerf on one of the most strategically open-ended gadgets in the game. truly open-ended variety and balance seems like a hard thing to maintain and that's part of why I say finals is performing this niche balancing act between casual and competitive appeal

[placid slate]

Where we getting pick rates from?

[void ice]

Currently* road hog from ow has been pretty gross at points

[brazen mango]

Used to get them from a private channel in this server that we were invited to

[ashen hawk]

---

Buff Heal Beam and Turret so that they could finally be as useful as Demat.

[void ice]

Delusion, dmg drop off is Intentional so you can’t snipe with weapons out of their intended range

The weapon has basically only vertical recoil it doesn’t have difficult recoil

[ashen hawk]

yeah, no shit. Everyone gets that. There could be a game event where theres a damage multiplier for long-distance shots by medium-ranged weapons is all im saying. Highly unfair game event but just an idea

[void ice]

Actually terrible idea buddy

[ashen hawk]

Actually terrible take buddy

[tight aurora]

need the rank

[void ice]

Need the rank

You’re asking for buffs for a s tier weapon…

You want to be rewarded on long range shots

[tight aurora]

Actually job😭 less

[void ice]

Sounds like a request for a balance change but idk

[tight aurora]

Yeah

[vocal flume]

make the sniper rifle hit scan

Literally its a hit or miss, you aim on the head, bullet drop, aim above the head, no bullet drop, aim on the head perfectly, body shot, like embark how is this game so stupid with the weapon balances

[brazen mango]

fcar is NOT S tier

Pike is S tier, Model and Famas are A tier, FCAR is B tier at best

[void ice]

Pike and famas are both S with pike being better still, I’d say fcar comfortably sits below those two and model in A? Criminal

[low leaf]

https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1mj1g5u/hit_a_couple_clips_in_the_practice_range/

[brazen mango]

Nah Famas is def not as good as Pike, just slightly more flexible, FCAR is def not A tier, hasnt been since S2

[vocal flume]

fr, the gun doesnt even deal proper damage most of the damn time

[brazen mango]

Lil bro gave up and put a clown reaction on my message

[plush harbor]

famas isn’t s tier

s tier is broken shit like pike 93r cerb when it was busted old sa12 (albeit that functioned well and wasn’t deserving of nerf) s3 lh1 xp for a while before they chopped its balls off

famas is a good weapon but it is not busted like the rest

also @brazen mango is fcar b tier akm b/c tier accurate

cause a certain riot shield main is trying to tell me that im ragebaiting them by saying that

[exotic skiff]

Kinda agree on that even tho it's close to be S

[vocal flume]

famas can be shot full auto cant it? one dude on my team was full autoing it

[exotic skiff]

No you can't, must have been a bug or cheat

[vocal flume]

too bad, would be nice to have.

[exotic skiff]

It would be broken bro ahah

[vocal flume]

yeah atleast it would kill properly

only gun i can use thats 100% consistent in damage is the sr-84

[exotic skiff]

FAMAS is the second best medium weapons

Just need to get used to the burst

[vocal flume]

its ass for me

it fluctuates in damage through the match, literally all the guns fluctuate

[stoic garden]

hitreg and range can do wonders in how much a gun actually deals...

[wary bough]

wheel progress check.

where we all at?

[vocal flume]

yeah and the shit servers dont help one bit

[mossy scaffold]

New player and looking for a good build, not heavy

What’s the meta

[sudden pewter]

Light

• ARN
• Glitch Grenade
• Gateway
  Medium
• FCAR
• Defib
• Jump Pad
• Zipline

[restive plover]

defibs in season 7

Don't put that evil upon him. Also I think the 93r is meta over the arn.

[sudden pewter]

Idk about meta just offering good options

https://tenor.com/view/cat-knead-fast-massage-gif-19678816

[restive plover]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1247928067356233777/1396165439733764326/twitter_1944132453905650026.gif

[chrome smelt]

LTM where there’s No penalty when a player is defibs, they’re insta back like S1. Make the defibs also have only a 5 second cooldown. Make it so all mediums have snipers with mega damage so it’s like a 1-2 shot kill in the M. Make a special map where there’s zip lines and jump pads everywhere.

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1393085421482672138/speechmemified_pasteimage.gif

[ripe whale]

Light
ARN
93r
XP/M11
Glitch grenade
Gateway
H+ infuser
Thermal

Medium
Famas
…
Pad
Defib
Goo
APS

[ionic patio]

How do you get colors in your name?

[sudden pewter]

Send messages. Channel doesn’t matter. 35 for the basic yellow role

[ionic patio]

Alright thx

[wary cliff]

i dont think youve used the weapon enough... it feels like that at mid range because yes the left to right recoil is minimal but its still there... as someone who's played the gun for a pretty long time. when shooting at range the left and right recoil is much more noticable. that being said... ive also mastered most of this recoil. hitting a lot of my shots at range. but im consistently losing to pike players who do better dmg even in the mid range...

a couple updates ago they even had to buff fcar by making the right "kick" that it had in its recoil much smaller. however even then i had used the gun so much that i was still hitting shots at range and losing to pike players.

[misty elbow]

I CANNOT PUT STICKERS ON THE HEALING EMITTER

[dull nexus]

FIX THIS NOW

[brazen mango]

yes

[sudden pewter]

If FCAR is B tier, what’s S/A tier on Medium? (I’d assume Pike is S atm)

[old bloom]

What is best famas scope

[plush harbor]

S pike A famas model repeater

[sudden pewter]

Repeater in A but not FCAR????

https://tenor.com/view/nuh-uh-nuh-gif-25159854

Not even Revolver? Smh 🤦‍♂️

[muted condor]

Revolver is only S tier if you are on coke while playing it

[shell sonnet]

what would happen if we gave light all movement items, medium all healing items, and heavy all destruction items?

[compact tundra]

The worst meta you've ever seen

[ivory pendant]

Hear me out

What if the turret had less health but more DPS, bigger detection range and faster turning speed? It might be less frustrating for casual lobbies, and more useful in high rank ones

[compact tundra]

As a sword main this would not be less frustrating

[ivory pendant]

Right click ez

oh you're light lol

[compact tundra]

Roof turret

[shell sonnet]

yeeeaaaah melee kinda suffers

id be interested in a gtfo-esq sentry

stationary, only looks in 1 direction, slight charge up before shooting, but if it does, unleashes hellcan be countered by peeking it over and over, formidable but counterable danger to take care of

[ivory pendant]

Well the game is kinda an elaborate rock paper scissors with stuff, so

[ivory pendant]

With all the peeking angles in maps, let alone creating your own, it might actually perform worse

That would pretty much be a longer range trap/explosive mine in function

[shell sonnet]

in direct confrontations, yes
thats the intention
in part, making it less frustrating to get randomly chipped and go below 50% as a light
but if you suprise someone, its lethal (and better for angle supression)

[compact tundra]

I've found the best use for turret is to deny flank routes and to create an area to retreat to. I think its balance should kinda move that direction to not make it an oppressive 4th teammate.

Maybe keep it the same, give it a 360 spin at the same spin speed. And make it dispense health slowly.

[shell sonnet]

actually, would it be?
i think it might be better for angle supression since you really cant affort it to keep it alive before engaging, but it also gets countered by corner peeking, but at that point youre giving the enemy a heads up youre about to engage
or might that go another way?

[shell sonnet]

thats just not turret anymore?
thats just a worse chuck (unless it heals more)
but thats not the items people bought skins for anymore
i doubt that would go over well

[shell sonnet]

it would still deny flank routes
just that it allows for better counterplay, while being stronger if used right
it wouldnt serve as a 4th teammate, its still only a turret, in this case, stronger but countered more easily

i would also be interested in a tf2 mini-sentry esq approach
less health
smaller
less dps
but with some other positives to make up for it
faster recharge?
maybe you get 2?

a disposable combat tool you throw down for extra support
acts as make-shift detection tool, since it tells you when it hits someone to cut off multiple flanks (if we go the route of 2)
could be placed next to eachother to act similarly to what turet does rn, just that its more prone to explosives if too close

[compact tundra]

2 would be oppressive unless very weak. I like the recon aspect but minis work in TF2 because of the power of regular sentries. I actually think TF2 started this whole problem where now every game needs a sentry but none of them add the things that made sentries in TF2 balanced. You have to build, upgrade, repair, and refill them. They don't just work in TF2, they need maintenance.

[shell sonnet]

might still cause issues against melee tho, maybe wouldnt be as bad if its angle locked?

[compact tundra]

Angle locked would make it trivial to fight unless well placed. But then it's a nightmare to fight

[shell sonnet]

except the mini sentry, which i would be interested in replicating
(somehow) (if it works)

[compact tundra]

I think it could, but making it smaller and harder to hit means it would need a nerf

[swift cradle]

I mean... fcar dps and accuracy is still better up close than pike.

[muted condor]

Give the sentry a mini gun instead

[shell sonnet]

damage

[shell sonnet]

lethal company turret

[brazen mango]

Pike kills Lights and Mediums faster up close than fcar

[shell sonnet]

overall weaker, but faster recharge
use it more often, less costly to use, easier to fight

[compact tundra]

Maybe you get one mini but can place 2 at a time and they recharge while down, maybe a 1 minute recharge time. You can carry them in hand to counter act this making you weaker if jumped but be able to set up quicker if left alone. They do about 45dps. Heal teamates within 8 meters and not blocked by a wall by 20HP per sec. Any enemies the turret locks on to get scanned for 3 seconds after being tracked. Has a 65° turn radius.

Probably over powered but a start

[shell sonnet]

i dont really see it being an "all in one"

[dim flume]

why is Embark so bad with melee weapons

[wispy rock]

i dont think its that bad

[muted condor]

Better question: why is Embark?

[gaunt lake]

do we want crossovers?

would that even work in the world of the Finals

[lucid marsh]

Not to mention its busted hip fire basically makes it the best shotgun on the medium class

[wind ermine]

what the sigma

[shell sonnet]

its a game show, a videogame sponsor would be fitting
problem is, it play in the future
so it would be based on an "old" game, and conveniently miss content 100 years into the future

tf2 crossover
minigun skin, buttefly knive
and a sticker with a lore accurate "days since jungle inferno update"
because that game is never getting a major update again 😅

[obsidian nexus]

PIKE smh my head

[muted condor]

It is funny that the one game crossovers would actually fit in doesn’t have may

[smoky shale]

I think crossovers would result in more monetization which might hurt the community

[swift cradle]

My bad. Pike is better by .06 seconds 👀

[wise bay]

they should crossover with Brink (2011)

[indigo nexus]

against lights this is definitely true, mediums though… not really, save for ideal quick melee utilisation.

[spark igloo]

turret should do less damage idle and more when you shoot someone in it's los

give it a tag system

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1393085421482672138/speechmemified_pasteimage.gif

[spark igloo]

?

[spark igloo]

the fact it's this close is insane, what is the bump for pike ttk at 0.5m?

that would make it too committal imo

current turret will always just be bad unless they overtune it because bunker comps suffer so much in this game

same reason why heal ball is mid

[stoic garden]

fr they gotta make it activate like in 1 second

[royal pier]

I beg to differ.

Hopefully we get a gadget/spec that makes things reinforced so Demat doesn't work and destruction takes more effort.

[stoic garden]

goo gun

[solemn jasper]

Nerf winch claw, 90% of heavy playing it right now, insane range, huge hitbox, not being able to do anything while being pulled. And all this combined with dome shield and 350 hp

[stoic garden]

what cashball should've always been about ngl

[royal pier]

I do that, but you just got to shoot it. It delays Demat at best.

[stoic garden]

at least u know they're coming and where, very crucial against demat

that's unless they lit it on fire

[royal pier]

More reliable to just drop it to the bottom floor.

[stoic garden]

they will demat your balls

[spark igloo]

or just nerf demat

ik im a visionary

[royal pier]

Don't steal my Demat hating gimmick.

But you can join it ig.

Still think a reinforcement ability could be interesting.

[stoic garden]

or just nerf demat

[shell sonnet]

But its a game about destruction
Doesnt really feel like we should impede that imo

[stoic garden]

i'd rather embark buffed other specs

[shell sonnet]

Problem is, you can only buff stuff so much before it becomes problematic

[weak kernel]

demat isn't destruction, that's the thing. it's some other third thing that ignores destruction mechanics and gives you the benefits with none of the downsides

[shell sonnet]

I was talking about the reinforcement, not demat

[weak kernel]

ah right

[shell sonnet]

I know this goes a little bit against what i just said, but what if we had a gadget thats just a floating platform?
Like a barricade that just floats in mid air

Hold up rubble
Instant cover
Suspend a cashout temporarily
Set up traps

How problematic would it be tho?
Melee anything just cant do anything

Snipers of any kind would suck

Maybe a max hight above solid ground?
And it hovers at that level should the ground below it fall

Something that you can always vault onto

[magic idol]

blerp

[merry basalt]

isn't that kinda just goo?

[shell sonnet]

Floating
Bit different utility, cant be burned, can take more fire
Should be quicker to set up since you dont need to pull a pin
Tho yeah i guess it is kinda close

Being able to remotely recall it could also be interesting

[inland ledge]

What if we got a gadget like a ramp. This would allow you to place it over void areas of the map or attach it to a window now on the first access giving you easier ways of movement. Yes you could use a zip line or goo, but this would allow you to basically combine both into one item. And it would also probably be used for heavy. And it couldn't be as easily as broken

[shell sonnet]

As stupid as it sounds, i think some "simple" gadgets could add a lot

Chuck being a summonable + throwable physics object has enabled us to headglitch again and invented a throwable fireball

[young cove]

I think the ACR would be cool for the medium class

and maybe the vector for the light class and the RPK for heavy

[severe ember]

I dont see how they could make them much different from the fcar, mp5/m11, and m60 tho

[young cove]

ACR is faster firing but does slightly less damage and less recoil

the vector has a smaller magazine to balance for its fire rate and the RPK can do more damage then the M60 and have smaller mag size

[severe ember]

I personally think the medium should get another pistol

[young cove]

that could work too

like the five-seven or the glock 18c

[severe ember]

M1911 w a 12 round magazine or something

[young cove]

yeah and the funny skins can be like a nerf gun or a chalk drawing of one

[severe ember]

Yup yup

[young cove]

I just wanna see more cool guns

[severe ember]

Wish the heavy had straight up fists

[young cove]

because then you can just put skins on the ACR like the M4 or HK416

[severe ember]

Just beat the shit out of people

[young cove]

yeah or like a big ass scythe

[severe ember]

Glock w a switchy and make it a close range weapon

[young cove]

for heavy or medium or light

[misty elbow]

nerf is stupid, it just needs to be reworked

[young cove]

yeah maybe like a range or hitbox reduction by like 5-10%

[misty elbow]

literally just add a chargeup

[young cove]

why?

[severe ember]

Winch goes 12 meters i think

I like the charge up idea so you can see them doing it and try to dodge

[young cove]

mmmmm ok ok I see it

[royal pier]

You can have a spec that makes destruction more difficult, but not impossible.

Just have it take 2 instances of something that would normally break in one. Or in the case of the KS-23, 4 shots instead of 2.

It could open up the opportunity for Turret buffs that keep it focused on being defensive if combined with a hypothetical Heavy reinforcement spec.

They could even have it increase the robustness of allied gadgets like Turret.

Because a spec that just makes walls and floors tougher is probably weak.

[royal pier]

Most explosions should have a minimum damage greater than 1.

[worldly elm]

lol

[restive plover]

yall did i get my 15 daily kills

[rare ether]

Vault the flamethrower.

[buoyant veldt]

Give me an lvoa-c for medium I don't care about anything else

[boreal laurel]

What was this, Cashball?

[restive plover]

yes sirski

[boreal laurel]

I knew it 😄

[brazen mango]

Saying this like one isnt a DMR with 10 meters more range and 20% better dropoff, they shouldnt even HAVE a similar TTK

[indigo nexus]

Quick melee

It estimates when quick melees would be helpful (assuming the player is very precise with them) and factors them in

It won’t find every useful quick melee combo (for example, if it involves two quick melees separated by bullets it might miss it)

But I doubt that’s relevant for most guns

It’s doing 3 headshots and a quick melee there for the unlikely but possible “best case” scenario

[spark igloo]

oh that makes sense

[indigo nexus]

For rapid firing weapons usually the quick melee stuff is a bit ignorable due to that people usually finish off enemies with bullets anyway, but it is theoretically helpful for most guns if you counted your number of hits correctly

[spark igloo]

how fast do qms come out? is it faster than 2 fcar rounds

[indigo nexus]

It’s 0.12 seconds iirc

So yes, it’s faster than the 0.222 for the fcar

I did have to measure the quick melee time approximately, so it may be slightly off. I think that it must be accurate enough to be useful though.

I think knowing exactly when your enemy will be under 40hp is the hard part in close range combat, because if you mess it up and it doesn’t kill them then your ttk ends up being terrible

[shell sonnet]

But youre still negatively impacting it
Imagine you run rpg for destruction, shoot a wall, aaaaaaand...
Nothing happens because someone reinforced it
What a painful waste

[royal pier]

Not a waste if someone else follows up.

[shell sonnet]

Honestly, i have no idea how to properly respond to that

You cant rely on teammates to finish what you started
Even if they do, youre still using twice and many and one usage is wasted
And if you personally want guranteed destruction you would need to waste even more slots
This would not end well

[royal pier]

Sounds like something that forces the meta to shift towards destruction, and away from Demat.

Sledgehammer, KS-23, Charge, Breach Charges, all become more desirable.

[shell sonnet]

You just nerfed every non demat destruction item in the game, how would it shift away from demat?

[royal pier]

Because I literally said that the Spec would make things immune to it?

[shell sonnet]

You said that before i joined in, didnt see it
Got it now

[royal pier]

Also, there could be a limit to the number of reinforced objects at a time. There would always be options that aren't plowing through the reinforced things.

Like, three max, maybe.

It would make it more likely that fights over the station happen on floors that aren't the bottom one.

Cause atm if you don't have demat yourself, you just drop the station you control to avoid it.

I've done goo blocks, but it's a stall at best.

Nice for last second pushes, but worthless otherwise cause they just shoot/burn the goo.

[shell sonnet]

But if you can just bypass it, whats the point?
At best you would get to avoid people taking a specific flank, while making it more annoying to try to attack somewhere

It would be simultaneously underpowered, but too annoying to buff

[royal pier]

I mean, simply being able to make the floor the station is on immune to Demat is value.

Forces them to fight on that floor if they don't have a way to go through the reinforcement.

[shell sonnet]

Its working against the main gimmik of the game

Like a racing game where any player can make everyone slow down to a crawl
And those that like to go fast just dont get to

[royal pier]

Demat already fucks that up.

[shell sonnet]

How

[royal pier]

It fulfills the role of dropping the box, but with 3 charges that doesn't destabilize the building.

It's Destruction-but-better. All the benefit, no unpredictable outcomes.

Most fights end up with the station on the bottom floor one way or another.

But this could still allow destruction to happen, but on a different floor than normal.

Or, they can destroy the area around it to make it fall.

[shell sonnet]

It kind of is, yes
But at least it doesnt pull the break on everyone else
It playes into the destruction mechanic, instead of limiting it

But thats literally the opposit of what i described

[royal pier]

Destruction can still happen everywhere else, I think it would allow more diverse fight locations.

For example, you could pull the station somewhere weird with Lockbolt and then reinforce it.

[shell sonnet]

For which you would need way more explosives
Forcing you to run either sledge, a gl, of a full team of 1-2 destruction gadgets with plenty of prep time during which the owner will hopefully not ambush you

[royal pier]

Like, imagine reinforcing the stairs and putting it there just to make the fight weird.

[royal pier]

But your assuming it must get dropped. It doesn't have to.

Everything else in the area is still able to be destroyed as normal.

[shell sonnet]

And then you would force everyone else to fight in a weird, potentially very lob sided area

[royal pier]

Ooh, what If reinforcing doors locked them in addition to the toughness increase?

[shell sonnet]

Aaaand suddenly its impossible to engage someone if you dont have at least 1 breach tool

[royal pier]

So it means people are forced to engage with destroyed more?

Cause atm only the Heavy brings it on average. Otherwise it's just demat.

Gives Breach Drill a reason to exist.

And there's also Data Reshaper to get explosive cans.

[shell sonnet]

It seems you think that would be a good thing

People actually like using stuff other than destruction

[royal pier]

Weren't you arguing in favor of destruction a minute ago?

[shell sonnet]

Idk where youre playing but ive seen plenty enough use it, and its really helpful a lot of the time

[royal pier]

I have only seen like 10 people not me and a friend use drill.

And I'm maxed out in WT and QP.

[shell sonnet]

I want people to be able to use whatever they want and be reasonably effective

You got rpg?
Well this guy got reinforcement, rpg cant fullfil its main purpose anymore, sucks to be you

Oh you wanted to play support light?
Well, this guy just locked you out of the single entrance to the objective
Shouldve picked explosives you fool

[royal pier]

Just destroy somewhere else nearby?

[shell sonnet]

Drill is a bit niche, i wouldnt mind seeing it buffed

[royal pier]

It is literally only taking away a couple of spots.

Destroy the base of the building and it no longer matters.

[shell sonnet]

But again, whats the point if its so small you can just move over a little

Its gonna be underpowered, but too frustrating to buff
It wont have a positive impact on the game

[shell sonnet]

Only sledge or a full team would have enough power to do that

If you wanna use a gun, cant have sledge
And full team coordination is not happening

[royal pier]

It stops demat drops, that's the main point. I also said it could buff placeable gadgets like Chuck, Turret, APS, etc. Not double though. Like a third.

[royal pier]

Oil cans and explosive cans make short work of buildings after their destruction tweaks.

[shell sonnet]

Im sure lights would love it if turrets had even more hp

[royal pier]

That's literally what its role is in TF2.

I don't see why people need to always be able to take out everything solo.

[shell sonnet]

Have fun wasting half a cashouts worth of time not playig the game so you can counteract 1 item

[royal pier]

Autocorrect is a menace.

[shell sonnet]

This is not tf2
There is stuff we can learn from it ofc, but we cant apply it 1:1

[royal pier]

They took like 70% of the things in this game from it

With the rest being mostly OW or Apex.

I think it's fine to have to rely on your team at times.

[shell sonnet]

Cant rely on teammates a lot of the time
So youre just banging your head against a wall, fighting an uphill battle, likely loosing, unless someone has mercy on you and decides to throw out there own game plan for a little to help you

It didnt work with aps vs cl-40 either

[royal pier]

Force people to think twice about going LLH, for example.

[shell sonnet]

So people cant use whatever team lineup they want
Not good

[royal pier]

It'll be more likely to happen if more things are added that push people to do basic teamwork

[shell sonnet]

Ideally, every single combination would have a decent chance at winning, just for different reasons

[royal pier]

It's already an atrocious comp.

There's no way to make a comp where the big slow target is more visible than the two tiny fucks zipping or sneaking around work unless the enemy allows it.

Best you can hope is that they both have H+.

Also, turret can be blinded by smoke btw.

Hardest of counters.

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, probably shouldnt do that

But we also have data vs turret which just hard counters it too
Still scratching my head on how to solve that

What if data only recalled it?
As if you had picked it up

So you regain 95% of the charge, and need to wait 3 seconds, then place it again

Maybe data could get its 3rd charge back

Same thing with cloak
It makes sense to be countered by thermal

[indigo nexus]

Goo gun trivialises turret with similar ease

goo grenades do too but it’s often a lot less precise

[shell sonnet]

Idk why i feel different about goo gun in this situation
Maybe because it itself is niche?

I think a bunch of problems would be solved if turret itself got a rework
Still hoping for a weak double sentry approach

[plucky spade]

I believe turret should be more snappy and maybe have a ramp up mechanic, making it a better area denial tool

This way it may be a better shield counter as well

I think turret should be more respected

[ivory forum]

problem is it’s just too sluggish to actually area deny

[indigo nexus]

I’d say it’s the most general purpose heavy spec, really…

It might be bad, though I find it has great utility

[shell sonnet]

I mean, it is
It can be applies to almost anything if you have enough brain cells

But it doesnt see a lot of usage

Wasnt supposed to sound like slander, i love goo gun

[plucky spade]

see point above

[shell sonnet]

is it possible riot shield is so desynced you can block your own hits?
i know blocking melee is really inconsistent, but i was like literally inside someone, swung, and just heard thud with no damage
in a way where it couldnt have no-hitted

[placid slate]

Buffing other specs isn't gonna decrease winch usage noticeably unless they make them even more of an issue than winch is right now

[solar crag]

Winch is def not my choice of spec

[plush harbor]

this

[solar crag]

I always prefer mesh goo or charge

[placid slate]

Mfs who say buff everything else instead of nerf one thing never really stop and think that the mindset isn't applicable to every single situation

[obsidian nexus]

smoke thermal still a problem

[chrome smelt]

Nah

[sudden pewter]

We should buff every weapon to 1-2tap so they can compete with DB

[boreal laurel]

I personally think winch is and always has been flawed mechanically. Either you winch a medium and get a guaranteed kill, or you winch a dash light and he gets away before you can get off a shot. It needs a rework, but at this point I don’t know what that should look like given how complicated an issue it is 🤷‍♂️

[muted condor]

Decrease the range and give it a small amount of spin up time

[shell sonnet]

What are we thinking of a possible non-combat winch solution?

[muted condor]

Also don’t let it go through shields and dual blades

[swift cradle]

Basically bring every weapon back to s1/ beta stats.

[sudden pewter]

Or remove light from the game
||this is not serious||
||would be cool tho||

[swift cradle]

There's not much you can do for a rework on winch. You either remove it or make the winch hitstun less potent.

In general, it's not that bad imo. But it just feels bad to get hit hit by.

[sudden pewter]

I understand I’m in the minority but I don’t hate the winch

[muted condor]

Simply not hitting through shields and having a spin up would be way better

[swift cradle]

The ttk was insane back then. But every gun felt powerful.

Like balance wise, the game was volatile af. But it was fun for me lol

[fluid arch]

Yo guys i just want your feedback.

I was just talking with girlfriend about new completely unique weapon and what it could be...

She gave idea that a boomerang would be cool.
Basically what we had in mind :

You hit your opponent 2 times per throw on the way there and one on the way back.
Boomerang trajectory would be dependent on the position of user and their current aim look.

90dmg per hit
It would have a high skill ceiling - as you must hit your shots due to longer rate of fire - 1.5sec per throw

Range would be dependent on the charge of weapon - same as with bow.

It can be countered by simply : Moving, sliding out of trajectory
as each hit will be crucial.

Its not really that much thought trough but let me know what you think for fun.

[swift cradle]

I gotcha. I just think adding a wind up wouldn't really help the issue. From the recieving end, you would barely see the wind up. And be in the same situation.

It's the same problem when people were complaining about stun gun. Now look at where it's at.

[muted condor]

Obviously a bot, finals players don’t talk to women

[wintry current]

Sticky grenades for mediums

[fluid arch]

This is Finals, not League. The finals players have a decent life.

[wary cliff]

fcar buff yooooo plsss

[restive plover]

All the ars need buffs, but it's never going to happen because their pick rates are high enough that embark can completely ignore them.

[wary cliff]

only reason that is the case is because some people actually enjoy not just point and click weapons. like the pike!

[muted condor]

Because point and hold is so much more fun

[restive plover]

People have their preferences.

[muted condor]

Not allowed

[restive plover]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/727981389739196540/1184725387520004167/caption.gif?width=470&height=218

[muted condor]

If you disagree with my preferences you’re opinion is not valid

[compact tundra]

I don't Think the AR's as is need a buff. Maybe the F-car but honestly they're pretty strong at the moment. Probably not so great against a heavy but heavies DPS at the moment is pretty damn good so that'd explain why.

[compact tundra]

1.5 per throw is way too slow. 1sec is the highest I would put it and probably where it should be given it's high DPS. It'll be screwed by dash lights tho.

[misty magnet]

What are your thoughts about the famas guys?

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/another-easy-steal-steal-gif-gif-steal-gif-gets-stolem-gif-7935542554022949277

[compact tundra]

Haven't played the new famas much but from playing against it, it shreds a little too fast in my opinion. Medium has some of the best gadgets and great team support, on top of having de-matty which is one of the best specs in the game. So I think having a good DPS on top of that is a little much. I've been noticing the triple medium meta coming back in ranked and that's not a good sign. But on its own it's probably fine.

[misty magnet]

I agree I think it's very powerful if you hit the shots but if you miss a burst it can be really hard to win a fight

[compact tundra]

Tho revolver, pike, and repeater fall into this camp as well. On their own there fine but on medium they cause problems

[compact tundra]

Yea. I think it's fair on its own. It's being attached to medium that's the problem

[indigo nexus]

How so? They're being attached to... the most average thing

[compact tundra]

Jump pad, zip line, glitch mines, defib, heal beam, de-matty. Medium has some of the best items in the game. Having a good DPS on top of that is too much. Medium has always been a balancing nightmare because stacking team support is really effective, so stacking mediums is really effective.

[indigo nexus]

The famas doesn't have particularly high DPS as far as medium weapons go.

It has the lowest of the assault rifles

[compact tundra]

It shreds pretty well and has great sustainability. It may be lower than other weapons but a lack of a long reload makes it pretty good and it can outlast most higher dps weapons

[indigo nexus]

well, it's between AKM and FCAR on both reload and mag capacity.

its advantage is its burst capacity

[wary cliff]

medium is perfectly fine where it is... its just the weapons within the class itself that need to be balanced with each other...

[misty magnet]

I agree but it's lost its dominance in the support builds as light has better heals

[fervent willow]

Wdy guys think about gas mines, they worth it for med?

[sudden pewter]

Yes, specifically for the cash station. Throw some mines on it and when it’s pushed you can use a grenade or shoot the mines to make a “fuck you” field

Forcing the other teams to move the station or wait out the gas

[compact tundra]

Triple stacking defibs with various specs is still extremely strong. Giving them a high dps on top of that makes medium the most viable class. In casual you're correct but in ranked medium is really good because defibs help sustain a team in fights and prevent wipes. They basically nullify kills if played well, and when you have a triple medium team who's miced up, they can be extremely powerful.

[muted condor]

Triple medium with demat, defib, and jump pads is my most hated match up to fight

[fervent willow]

true only issue is fire

but yeah i think gas mines are a good stall normally

but i see most top players run goo as a third gadjet, my other 2 are defib jump

[sudden pewter]

Goo is S tier

[fervent willow]

true

jump over zip tho right prob?

[sudden pewter]

I prefer Jump yes

[fluid arch]

Thats the thing it needs to have a counter. it cannot be OP

But if you hit your shots you can basically "one" shot the light

[compact tundra]

1.5 would make it near useless

Not really since they can dash or just hold the A key after being hit once

[fluid arch]

Like i said it wont come back the same way it will come back the way you aim and possition.

It will be more like an Magnetic boomerang, it is possible as it is a game show. High tec magnetic boomerang with sharp edges.

It will be skill based as you need to keep your aim on the enemy, if you can... you can basically 1 shot light 1,5 shot medium, 2 shot heavy

if you hit both of your hits.

So basically it will have 180dmg per 1,5 sec

which IS NOT bad at all

[compact tundra]

That does make it more powerful, but the whole time you're aiming at them they can shoot you. If I get hit once my goal is now to shred you before I get hit again. Every class can kill in 1.5 seconds in a 1v1. Could see it being better with team support tho.

[fluid arch]

yes, exactly. I can sense it wont be OP or too abused but that's where we wanna go with it.

It being somewhat balanced, it could be more of a weapon against Heavy's as you can literally 2 shot them.

A light with high mobility will be a problem... But it needs to have a counter.

But what im thinking about is.... on what class it should be... on light it would be little too OP on medium it could be kinda ok but slow and on heavy un usable.

[plucky spade]

make it equippable

[outer osprey]

Yeah, Idk whose idea it was to add the riot shield but they should be fired. The thing is just stupid and broken. Like, blocks all shots and does 45 damage a hit. What a terrible addition, and making it $1000 per kill, everyone is running it and WT is just unplayable.

[muted condor]

That moment when the flamethrower, winch, cl40, and sword exist

Oh and the sledgehammer

[outer osprey]

It will block hits with the CL40, the flamethrower will trade but not win. Others are fine if you are only ever 1v1 but goodluck

[muted condor]

If you’re losing with the flamethrower that’s crazy work

Also shield won’t block cl40 hits if you know where to aim

[uncut oak]

I love the AKM and the MP5 thingy

[dusty aspen]

I love the flamethrower

[dusk garden]

how would you guys buff the bad medium specializations?

[boreal laurel]

I love how everyone is only now raging about riot shield even though it’s been like this since launch 😏

[boreal laurel]

For heal beam I would either buff uptime or heal rate (not both of course). For turret perhaps reduce deploy downtime. That’s really all they need IMO, buff them any more and they become way too OP

[muted condor]

By nerfing demat

[dusk garden]

if heavy has 4 specializations, what do you think some good ideas would be for a 4th spec for medium and light?

[dusk garden]

how would you nerf it besides just increasing the cooldown or decreasing the area dematted?

[astral cedar]

I would take less turret health if it just deployed instantly

[wary cliff]

triple med is just not practical though. theres easy counters to a team comp like that. especially people who use smoke and thermals... medium and heavy have zero counter to util like that... each class has a meta that will dominate any triple team of any class. thats why you dont see it that oftern

[boreal laurel]

Wallrun for light would be awesome (IDK how useful though 😉). For medium I’m not sure, but something for movement might be nice. Or perhaps an offensive power, like a glitch gun or something

[compact tundra]

I'd say it's very practical, medium has good short, mid, and long range weapons. And for smoke, glitch mines, and proximity sensors. And triple defib is just so reliably good if you are miced up, you effectively never have to coin and can always have a full team ready to push again in a matter of like a minute. Heal beam can counteract the half health revives and de-matty is one of the best positioning tools in the game.

[dusk garden]

do you guys think defib is too strong? if so do you think turning it into a spec would be a good idea?

[simple lark]

if it were to be a spec, it should be buffed (somewhat like season 2) but an idea i heard that i thought was pretty neat is to rework heal beam so it has different modes.

this could be such as giving slight speed boost or allow to heal multiple teammates at the cost of less healing.

while im also on this soapbox, another solution could be to nerf demat. A good way to go about this is to charge it to open walls, so if you're running around you hold left click for about 2 seconds then you have the option to open a wall Infront of you (imagine charging defibs but without the walk penalty) . this can give players the time to either detonate gadgets such as gravity vortex or winch claws to stop it from going through floors. With proper timing too it would still allow for great plays with just a bit of a higher skill ceiling

[restive plover]

yap

[dusk garden]

nah bro it was a good opinion, and @simple lark 's idea wasn't even that long

[restive plover]

huh?

major L

[crystal ether]

yap

[strong cosmos]

yap

[boreal laurel]

As a dedicated demat main since launch, I have to say…I weirdly like this idea of a charge-up. It would not just increase skill expression but also make it kind of easier to use demat on the fly, since right now there’s already a weird little delay between selecting and using the spec. I would just keep the charge up pretty short, since demat is ultimately a tactical gadget and we’ve seen how the long charge-up hurt defibs

[ashen prism]

What even is the counter for a L running Smoke/Thermal Vision?
Frag grenades and red barrels don't dissipate it reliably (and there aren't exactly red barrels everywhere when you need them)
So if you don't have a L running thermal or a Gas Grenade you are pretty much out of luck

Even Gas Barrels can't help since their hitbox is way smaller than the area in which you can steal the cashout.

So. is there repeatable way to counter it with any class without needing the 3 specific gadgets that actually do?

[normal ice]

@ashen prism counters for smoke besides thermal vision:
proximity sensors
glitch traps
gas grenade/barrel/mine (the volume should completely enclose the cashout if placed well)
goo gun/grenades for cancels
winch claw
charge 'n' slam (not 100% reliable)
wide melee hitboxes
spleefing
sonar grenade
Torgue-worthy level of explosions

[dusty apex]

hello, i'm new to the game, i'm playing but i have no idea what i'm doing, i just know that i need to finish the objective but idk nothing abt the character builds and other stuff, can anyone help?

[fervent willow]

Yeah in quick cash the objective is to win 2 cash outs in a 3v3v3 format

You can be a light med or heavy

Lights have 150 hp and are quick

[dusty apex]

okay

[fervent willow]

Meds have 250hp and an average speed

[dusty apex]

so lights have better mobility

[fervent willow]

And heavy has 350 hp but slowest

Yup

[dusty apex]

and apparently the weakest cuz i was a heavy and a light just bodied me with one shotgun shot

and i still dk how to use the reserves can't i just pull them up mid game or sth?

[fervent willow]

Lights generally have high dps guns to make up for the fact that they die so fast

[dusty apex]

plus what gadgets/weapons are the best

[fervent willow]

So reserves is only useful in ranked and world tour. Basically in between rounds you can only switch to the weapons and gadgets in your reserve

[dusty apex]

ohhhhhh

[fervent willow]

It’s like a tournament type system with 3 rounds

[dusty apex]

okay i got it
ok so what are the best stuff i can use (weapons)
as a light player

[fervent willow]

The meta right now is 93r portal glitch grenade and healing infuser

[dusty apex]

alr lemme just see what these are

[fervent willow]

But another good comp is xp54 smoke thermal vision and portal

With dash for 93r and invis or dash as the special for the xp54 comp

[dusty apex]

i did not unlock the glitch grenade yet

[fervent willow]

Yeah your gonna need some play time to unlock all that

[dusty apex]

ok is it cool if i use frags and sonars? with grappling hook?

[fervent willow]

With m11 grapple sonar could be nice

I personally don’t use frags as light but it’s not a bad thing when starting out

[dusty apex]

so m11, grapple, frags, sonars, smokes

alr imma try to manage it
thank u ❤️

[fervent willow]

Yeah could be good smokes are really nice for steals

Cause unless they have thermal they can’t see you very well

[dusty apex]

that's a good thing

[fervent willow]

Yeah no problem good luck!

[dusty apex]

but the thing is i'm getting matched up with people at level 80+ and i'm not even at level 10

[fervent willow]

Yeah I mean that happens cause quick cash is for all levels

Just unfortunate match making lol

[dusty apex]

i tried playing the diffusing mode, but it just doesn't start, they do have the eta at <1min but it kept me waiting for 5 mins with no matches found

[fervent willow]

Hmmm idk actually I think when I’ve tried it works pretty fast

But team death match quick cash and power shift are nice

[dusty apex]

alr then imma stick to these

[fervent willow]

World tour is also great cause you can’t lose rank and it’s a competitive format

[fervent willow]

Good luck you got it

[dusty apex]

thank uuuuu
i skiddadle

[graceful kindle]

Returning after not having played for a few months. Did they nerf hammer, and buff both flamethrower and riot shield? Hammer feels worse than before and the other too are always in lobbies and dominating. I used to counter the flame and riot with hammer but now I feel like I can't. Maybe just skill issue?

[normal ice]

riot shield hits about 10% faster. all melees got mostly negligible hitbox changes. flamethrower is untouched

[slim crest]

Whatever they did to dagger wasn't negligible. I refuse to believe every dagger player suddenly lost their frontal lobe this update - SOMETHING changed

[hushed crown]

they nerfed hammer (215 > 150 and 115 > 100 i think) and they buffed riot shield's attack speed and hitboxes i think
ive seen a lot of flamethrower recently but it hasnt been changed

[hushed crown]

i think its that dagger is $1000/elim in risk and reward..? so more people are gonna use it and so theres ofc gonna be some bad people using it
not sure but they havent changed it since they changed sword and stuffs

[slim crest]

I mean, even outside risk/reward, I'm seeing it underperform (more than usual)

Got a buddy who runs dagger all the time, and he's normally not the type to complain - but he's been vocal this update.

Idk, dagger in general has been so ridiculously weak lately. Kinda hate to see it - I miss being afraid of the little worms.

ㅤ
Like, it's clear someone has a thing against it.

Making "patches" such as removing dagger's ability to backstab turrets is more petty than actually helpful.

[royal pier]

Making Dome/Mesh Shield block melee in a shadow change is a top 10 dipshit change.

[fading rose]

Riot has been really pissing me off this seaon if im being honest

[spice vigil]

yeah riot isnt good, just kinda sucks to fight sometimes

[fading rose]

feels like no matter how accurate I am the hitbox is just wrong

[slender bear]

Honestly, it makes sense for the shields to block everything, but at this point melee has been the exception for so long it just feels wrong.

[wet musk]

Can they make riot shield block melee hits too, or the dual blades block melee, if other shields can block melee attacks now

[simple sierra]

Dematerialiser is so useful

[wide stratus]

Make grenade launcher an equipment instead of weapon

[wide stratus]

Blocking both melee and bullets is way too powerful wdym

[obsidian spindle]

I suppose sword lunge can still pierce through shields after this change?

[placid basalt]

how about no

also they need to fix riot shield soon its literally the most broken weapon period, it cant be shot, it deflects and blocks wench, rpgs, and c4, and you cant punch through the shield occasionally too

[wet musk]

Just shoot their feet lel

[wide stratus]

In a proper firefight it's not easy to shoot their feet

[thick holly]

I find it funny that the moment riot shield gets a very slight buff then that's when people complain about it

The weapon feels mostly unchanged to me, just a bit more consistent with hitting wise. I'm pretty sure the only reason why people have an issue with it now is because it's way more commonly used

[safe imp]

The weapon was always annoying to fight agaisnt, people just never noticed it as much

[thick holly]

Yeah, it's remained like 99% the same since like season 3 or 4 and I've seen almost nobody complain about it.

[raw cave]

skill issue

[placid basalt]

Major*

[placid basalt]

You're buns kid

[thick holly]

No it's not really a major one, just a slight one. It's feels very similar to pre patch honestly

[raw cave]

the only thing they did is gave it its intended range, before you couldnt even hit enemies on goo grenade

[thick holly]

All the buff did was make the swings slightly more consistent and slightly faster

[placid basalt]

Making the weapon actually able to hit is major, because the full dps is unfair

[thick holly]

It could hit before, like I said it's just slightly more consistent

[placid basalt]

Has no counter unless you run flamthrower or db 24/7

And dbs are like 10x more of an issue so we dont want more of those either

[thick holly]

It has a lot more counters than that

[raw cave]

or sledge, or spear, or dual blades, or cl40, or charge n slam, or mines, or dash, or turret

[thick holly]

any other melee weapon out damaged riot shield

[placid basalt]

Like mines which i run, doesnt matter if they cant be shot or punched after

[thick holly]

Riot shield is the weapon that probably has the most counters

Other than spear maybe

[placid basalt]

If you run spear, dual blades, charge and slam, or turret, theres bigger issues to worry about

[placid basalt]

Dual blades definitely, countered by basically any weapon besides sniper maybe

[thick holly]

I'd say the biggest actual counter to riot shield is multiple angles. I die so much to that and there's nothing I can do

[raw cave]

or having actually good aim

[placid basalt]

The hitbox blocks where the shield isnt at

[raw cave]

or quick melee

[raw cave]

it is a problem

[placid basalt]

Bc embark is incompetent and even admitted to it being server related issues since riot shields release

[raw cave]

but saying that there are only two counters is wrong

[placid basalt]

Doesnt register half the time and does 50dmg less, what is that supposed to do

Im just saying there's 0 reason riot shield should counter wench, c4, rpg, and shak all at once and then win the fight too

Yet it can and will 100% of the time as long as you look slightly to the right

[plucky spade]

holy skill issue

[placid basalt]

[plucky spade]

literally just go into a circle strafe fight with it

where you go clockwise

[stoic garden]

that's true

[placid basalt]

It 3 shots me and blocks the body thats not covered so no, wrong

[stoic garden]

do you play mindustry lol

[placid basalt]

What

[stoic garden]

ur name is very close ❤️

[placid basalt]

💔

Also yeah agreed buff invis

Its annoying as hell and needs a little rework but its so weak compared to dash

Maybe they make it like 25% decrease on activation instead of 33%

[stoic garden]

that will kinda fix nothing

[placid basalt]

Or decrease activation noise idk

[stoic garden]

it's too easy to see, too loud and has many counters

[raw cave]

there's no heavy player that will aim for the body with rpg, most of the time its free damage

[placid basalt]

Blocks fully if its anywhere in the front 180 degrees

[stoic garden]

what how does that even happen, place c4 and bait the riot into it cuh 😪

[raw cave]

have you even played it?

[plucky spade]

full invisibility, but now you have to first disable it and then you can do anything else. As long as you're cloaked you can't do anything

[placid basalt]

Yeah i literally tested all this shit today with my friend in priv match

[stoic garden]

basically tf2 cloak would be pretty good

[placid basalt]

Nah i dont play heavy it was my friend using it

[raw cave]

then things you tested are wrong, its like doing a theory experiment where you dont include air resistance and heat loss

[plucky spade]

me when the team game requires team work

[placid basalt]

Im just tired of people seeing you while standing still from like 20 meters

[raw cave]

tests should be in the field, and i can say, you can block only frags and you have to stand still for it to happen

[placid basalt]

Happens like consistently in tdm where you stand in a random spot then all of a sudden the cl40 and rpg are being launched at you from the other side of the map

Invis might as well not exist if they can just see you anyways

[placid basalt]

My teams a bunch of bums then bc i always get them down like 150 and nothing else happens to it

[plucky spade]

bait them then

if you think you're smarter than your team use them

like they're gonna understand
Are you though? Or are you just malding because shields happen to win sometimes?

I feel the same way with dagger a lot of times y'know, but then after I get cl_interp'd 1.5 by them I think about all the other times they gt slapped around like mosquitoes and gelz comes to game feedback to cry and consider that it ain't that bad

Love you @still magnet, one day dagger will feel fair for both sides

[raw cave]

i know that the dagger isn't good as it seems, but i think that the only class that should be oneshotable is light. Playing with light with dagger in lobby is giving me anxiety and its not fun to play against

[plucky spade]

that's what dagger's supposed to do, it's the only way it functions, otherwise it's a worse sword

[raw cave]

i just dont like one shots. You mind your own buisness and suddenly you are dead

[placid slate]

Kinda just gotta have better spacial awareness I guess

[muted condor]

Anything that can one shot a heavy will be annoying and almost impossible to balance regardless of what they do imo

It’s ether going to be absolutely cheeks or make heavy unfun to play

[sudden pewter]

I’m okay with the concept of Dagger but the desync makes it unfun to fight

[placid basalt]

Ive never felt any bit of unfairness to a dagger just bc its near impossible to ever get a backstab bc of this games hitreg

As for shield ive literally never won a 1v1 against a riot shield, best i can do hipfiring a pike is 200 dmg if im lucky

Except for like 1 time in power shift where i prenaded and premined on myself

[placid basalt]

Agreed, thats why im a DB hater forever

Hardly any skill for a ton of reward

At least with m11 or matter you have to track your enemy

[raw cave]

The hitreg is the problem here, its as broken as riot shield. Getting backstabbed in face (no matter if you tracked him or not) or from 3m away is not fun

[placid basalt]

True ive had it happen a couple times

I just know from the bit of time i played dagger that heavies basically dont have a back hitbox and lights are the easiest to backstab by far

You can literally stab the side of a lights head and it counts as a backstab lmao

[shell sonnet]

maybe because theyre faster and desync over a greater distance
some tf2 level shenanigans

[spring grotto]

Maybe pike needs a nerf, has incredible range and still whoops ass close….? Riot shield seems invincible in the right hands, famas rolls any weapon that has recoil whilst having 0 recoil. Jump pad rework made medium have 0 cash out stop available unless u play below with demat. Like what are you guys doing to the game? Defib reworked missed the actual issue. Med is just the worst class now. Thanks embark.

[raw cave]

you conflict with yourself, and also skillissue

[shell sonnet]

@mortal storm what exactly do you want from goo mines?
summoning goo on a player would just instantly break it
Or should it be like a cage and basically stun them?
whats your intention

[sudden pewter]

Giant goo cage would be a better goo nade

Honestly don’t think they’ve thought the idea of goo mine out

Would love to see them talk about it in detail

[mortal storm]

i want like a small few blobs that traps them

[shell sonnet]

goo with like remote detonation would be neat, only problem is anything that would set it off would also destroy the wall
(unless were specifically talking about shooting it with gun)

[spring grotto]

Conflicting points where? And def not a skill issue bub. I can soloq higher than ur stack ever hits

[shell sonnet]

but then we have either

1. too close, breaks instantly
2. full cage, but you also cant shoot them back and its just an unfun stun
3. a different way youre imagining small goo blobs?

not sure how im supposed to imagine it, a little visual would help if you could provide

[mortal storm]

think of four stacks of 2 goo blobs around the person

[sudden pewter]

What’s stopping a player from mantling out?

[mortal storm]

although honestly this is mostly a meme suggestion

[shell sonnet]

so basically a full cage unless youre in like nozomi or seoul with tall ceilings?

[dim flume]

Embark is terrible at making fun melee and I believe they don't belong in the game as they currently are (except maybe sledgehammer)

[raw cave]

you can amuse your ego as much as you want, but you're saying that M now is the worst class, but riot shield can make you invinsible, which is not

[mortal storm]

basically

[muted condor]

Pipe down lil bro

[shell sonnet]

im trying to think of stuff that could make it work
but i dont think a cage is really the solution
they dont get to shoot, you dont get to shoot
just kinda drags it out

maybe something else could be done

[dim flume]

rework all melee/delete demat/delete dash and the finals will be better than ever

[mortal storm]

yeah, spear should spin fast enough to be a new movement option

[muted condor]

Gravity mine

[dim flume]

ok I'll allow it

[shell sonnet]

i want interruptible spear :(

[raw cave]

remove everything good and game will be fun with only bad left

[dim flume]

good doesn't mean fun

[mortal storm]

nah embark would never do that, they would rather keep melee clunky

[dim flume]

demat was a mistake and dash is also a can of worms, they devalue everything else the game offers

[compact tundra]

Big dog melees whole thing is that it's fun. Dash and de-matty are incredibly fun if you play style matches them well

[compact tundra]

Then maybe they should be the standard and other specs should be reworked to match them

[raw cave]

then go play with gravity vortex, tracking dart and gas nade with graple

[muted condor]

Spear would be perfectly viable if they fixed hit detection and made spin canceling a actual feature that doesn’t require a emot

[dim flume]

things are supposed to be fun on the receiving end too

dematerializer is a huge issue in the meta

[raw cave]

no its not, problems are heal beam and turret

[dim flume]

dash is just unfun and brings too many issues with delayed networking

[raw cave]

they are worthless, because of that demat seems powerfull

[dim flume]

they're absolutely not worthless

[raw cave]

med gun maybe, but not turret

[dim flume]

but require more thought than cheat code demat

[raw cave]

turret will just stand there while you die

[dim flume]

dematerializer should never have been added to the game permanently, should be nerfed immensely

[raw cave]

and in good teams with good aim theres no point bringing med gun if heavy can heal whole team and light can heal heavy in 2 seconds

[raw cave]

https://youtu.be/_K8IXzVxKWI?si=nWT3rJt16bKqEDF5

[dim flume]

what about it

[compact tundra]

Bro I fought a light that was stealing last night and being tanked by an infuser, bro survived 4 M1 shots from my sword, utter bullshit. Actually had me distraught.

[spring grotto]

Invincible* and “in the right hands”

[raw cave]

yeah everything is good at right hands, and don't appeal to grammar mistakes, im not even from english speaking country

[spring grotto]

Neither am i bub. And sure but just because theres a high skill ceiling doesn’t mean there isn’t something fundamentally wrong with the weapon….

[compact tundra]

Who else are we talking about when taking viability than the right hands, we shouldn't talk viability and then use bad players as an example. And medium *might be the worst but that's only in a 1v1 setting. In ranked team fights medium still reigns supreme, and triple medium is still a viable team.

[raw cave]

only technical side

[spring grotto]

Didn’t use any examples lol? And in ranked idgaf its always a H dif

[spring grotto]

Yea, the sweep changes they made have giving riot shields insane range, and chase potential.

[raw cave]

and being unable to block any melee damage

[spring grotto]

It block melee dmg bub

[raw cave]

and junky eplosion blocking

[raw cave]

ill see you try blocking sledge heavy attack

[compact tundra]

You were trying to defend your 'in the right hands' statement, when talking viability we should just presume it's in the right hands and not try to use the fact that it has a weird play style to shield you from criticism. You said medium was the worst class but also said riot shield makes medium invincible. Those are conflicting statements. And I would argue mediums pretty good. They have great short, mid, and long range weapons, and some of the best gadgets and one of the best specs in the game.

[compact tundra]

It does block Melee now, it went from being hard countered by sword to being a good counter to sword

[muted condor]

I love watching people crash out over medium having a viable melee option

“Oh no I have to change my play style or load out to counter a new weapon it’s literally killing the game!”

[raw cave]

new weapon from season 1

[compact tundra]

Hey I don't think new riot shield is terrible, just probably a learning curve most people haven't hit yet

[muted condor]

It’s a lot better now

[compact tundra]

I agree, I think it is a bit weird in the flame thrower interaction now but other than that it's pretty ok

[muted condor]

Also the hit box is a problem they need to fix

I definitely see why people who don’t know how it works thinking it’s bull shit (it is) but once you know about that it’s easy to avoid

[muted condor]

Guess I worded that wrong, a weapon that is actually starting to get used by average players

[raw cave]

dont worry i am just joking

[compact tundra]

Yea, the only problem for me is that now sword has to lunge to the left or well get blocked when they swing and the shield moves across their right side. Now my problem isn't with this inherently but that with our rotation clamping, now doing a wrap shot on the shield is kinda hard

[dusk garden]

do you think that making the medium guardian turret immune to glitch grenades would be a good idea? imo it would help usage rates, nerf glitch a little bit, and maybe encourage usage of goo gun more

[placid basalt]

Med is still the most important target right now lmao

Defib to have numbers over the enemy is the strongest thing currently

[placid basalt]

Not the hitbox apparently

According the embark its a serverside issue and it hasnt been fixed since its release

[raw cave]

make it have 360 view angle

[placid basalt]

Maybe tbh

I think turret just needs a rework because its terrible rn but if it were buffed it would be super annoying

[raw cave]

or at least lower its cooldown, with how easily it is destroyed and in contrast with all of the other specs it has very long cooldown

[placid basalt]

And deploy time too

Takes like 5 seconds, has no use in an offensive fight bc of that

Basically forced to be a cashout room setup item

[spring grotto]

Medium having a viable melee isnt the issue. Its the janky hit box of the shield, its the 6m hits that 1/3 me. Fundamentally flawed. As i said before

[muted condor]

The hit box is the only problem and it’s not even a shield specific problem

[spring grotto]

Infinite healing n shields are fundamentally better than someone with an empty clip, half hp and no abilities.

[spring grotto]

Only problem? So a melee weapon 1/3’ing me 6m away isnt?

[raw cave]

its not 6m

its server side problem

[muted condor]

That’s just a skill issue not a problem

[spring grotto]

So a server side issue is a skill problem

[raw cave]

and how do you feel about 1/2 your health in 20m?

[placid basalt]

What does that

[raw cave]

sword

[placid basalt]

Oh i was gonna say bow lol

[spring grotto]

Lol sword is countered by aim

[muted condor]

Why are you letting a shield get within 6m of you?

[raw cave]

and shield is not?

[spring grotto]

No, they have a fucking shield u nugget

[placid basalt]

Sword isnt countered by anything bc of servers too

[muted condor]

Bro hasn’t heard stepping to the left 😭

[spring grotto]

Sure u can shoot around it but like you even said server side hot boxes

[spring grotto]

Hmm, yea the sweep changes def dont make a difference….

[placid basalt]

You can wench and perfectly track a sword with hipfire shak but hitreg on sword dash lights is nonexistant

[muted condor]

They made it more viable

[raw cave]

yes, but you can counter it with aim

[spring grotto]

Sure but its still fundamentally flawed and not every instance can i have peak distance against it?

[muted condor]

If it’s really that much of a problem for you just keep one of the weapons that completely counters it in reserves

[placid basalt]

Like riot shield lol

Only counter weapon on medium

[raw cave]

you can with 2/3 of classes...

[raw cave]

and cl40

[placid basalt]

The big counter to riot shield is just playing light and thats it

[placid basalt]

Oops yeah i forgot abt cl40

[muted condor]

CL40, any light weapon, hammer, spear, flamethrower

[raw cave]

and heavy with rpg, charge, flamethrower, sledge or spear

[placid basalt]

Rpg doesnt work, charge is buns, and spear too

[raw cave]

and dual blades if you know what you are doing

[muted condor]

Heavy in general walks the shield

[placid basalt]

Who is running those two in diamond 😭

[spring grotto]

I forgor that the finals is full of femboys n furries yall have fun now

[raw cave]

i guess neither of you two actually played it

[placid basalt]

Why would you run dual blades tho if most of the lobby will have any sort of gun

[muted condor]

Lmao bro got shit on and had no real comeback

[placid basalt]

Again, i tested it and if youre full blocking then the full front side of you is invincible to rpg and wench

You have to rpg behind them to hurt them

[raw cave]

only thing i wanted to make point is that he's not the sharpest tool in the shed if he can't even kill poor shield wielder

[spring grotto]

Comeback to what?

[muted condor]

I’m pretty sure he’s 13 or something tbh

[spring grotto]

Lol

[raw cave]

again, testing in private match is not testing on the stage

[muted condor]

Bro probably struggling against duel blades too 🙏