💣┇weapons-gadgets

[stiff vine]

^^

[tender python]

Oh yep nrm there it is XD

[stiff vine]

its really powerful on lights

[tender python]

Goo seems better if your good with it, does shield have better frame data or something?

[stiff vine]

it depends on preference, a lot of skilled people are already good with shield so they stick to it and shield lets your team mates shoot through it. goo is really versatile and unexpected so people usually panic ie: you can make a light waste their dashes by gooing them as they panic then get an easy kill

[alpine cypress]

what is the best heavy wepon?

[tender python]

What are you most comfortable with

[stiff vine]

goo is also a really good movement item if you get skilled enough with it, i always call it the everything gun because it can do everything if you're creative enough

[alpine cypress]

m60, shak , minigun, deagles but what is the best to use

[stiff vine]

M60 is reliable and easy to learn with good mid range, the .50 akimbos are a bit harder to master but deal a ton of damage on headshot

you should try going into the practice range and do the shooting range with all heavy guns to learn what fits you best

[placid slate]

Shak is very good too

[tender python]

Goo just seems better than shield for this, am I missing something? If you goo someones head your teammates can still shoot there toes

[alpine cypress]

i always find myself in a close range fight or long range fight depending on the map

but im mostly on the cashout

[stiff vine]

goo is very hard to learn and you can miss

[tender python]

So shield is mainly used for consistency?

[stiff vine]

if you want ease but breakable then take shield, if you want a bit of hardship but versatility then go goo

[tender python]

So other than constancy there is no major benefits to using shield?

[stiff vine]

it helps the team by allowing them to shoot through

exactly

[stiff vine]

i may be a bit biased because i've been on the path to master goo for a long time but i find it better in a lot of scenarios most of the time

[tender python]

Btw also what's the consensus on minnigun I took a break from the game around when it was added because of the sword nerfs

[stiff vine]

minigun is similar to flame but harder to master

[digital lynx]

It’s really difficult but once you learn the goo drop off curve you can guarantee goo locks, get close and do your damage or even nail lights as they dash away making them lose their dashes. I find it works well with sledge

[crisp grove]

miniguns cool

[crisp grove]

goo gun seems quite fun lol

[stiff vine]

minigun has slightly more DPS than the M11 for lights but its really hard to use without a good team

[tender python]

So it's mainly good on 3 stacks?

[stiff vine]

i would say its practically impossible if you dont have someone covering you because you usually leave enemies low before they get behind cover

[digital lynx]

It’s so much fun to goo lock lights trying to run away and heavy sledge them, meow then emote on them

(I hate lights with a passion)

[tender python]

(I love lights with a passion [sword my beloved])

[muted condor]

I love grabbing lights that are trying to dash away after missing both DB shots with the wench

[stiff vine]

btw another goo glaze clip, you cant be harmed when encased in goo

[crisp grove]

yeah i can say this with passion tho: fuck db

[crisp grove]

you used to be able to goo people for free easy backstabs apparently 😅

[muted condor]

But the hammer was to cheese of a play style to leave viable

[stiff vine]

dont even try to get goo nerfed

goo is on light and medium so they wont nerf it

[tender python]

But they did already nerf it though

[crisp grove]

they nerfed goo already, lowered its hp

and for nades reduced its size

[boreal laurel]

Yeah goo is fine where it is, plus goo gun is the only heavy spec that I actually like so let’s not get it nerfed 😏

[digital lynx]

If anything goo should get buffed and increase the hitbox on enemies so if I totally whif my goo shot it’ll still hit them

[tender python]

Add a homing mode to goo gun

[digital lynx]

That’s what I’m sayinnggggg

[stiff vine]

M2 for goo gun charges a 3x3x3 goo golb

will take 5 ammo per

or at least 3x3x3 cube without the conerners

could even be just 5 goo that spawn sorta like a pyramid

something like this

and when shot at walls it will look like this

[stoic garden]

all of them are good in the meta, minigun is the objectively best gun if your team is coordinated well, m60, shak and deagles may perform better if you're with worse teammates

if you happen to use minigun, when chasing people, slide, and start shooting without aiming to keep your speed and minigun charge until slide is finished

[hoary coral]

I love that they buffed the 93r a tiny bit, even if it was just a mag size change
I love the weapon!

[strange roost]

I didn’t notice the change

[stoic garden]

from 21 to 24 mag size

[hoary coral]

Eh my friend said the same, but when you used the 93r since the start of season 6 up to now you kinda feel the change

[strange roost]

I have & still haven’t but that’s how it can be sometimes

[hoary coral]

Ah lol ok 😂 but yea, I love the fun!

[shell sonnet]

nah, make it charge up and shoot a loose goo blob that can tumble about
at high charges it goes faster and can destroy buildings it hits
i think thatd be interesting, tho probably a bit too transformative

[strange roost]

Too much

[stoic garden]

way too much

[brittle yoke]

you shoot that goo cannon ball and have a teamate mantle it and fly across the map

[gloomy spruce]

What your opinion on the Light Matter weapon?

[stiff vine]

op but no one uses it

feels like unnerfed SA1216

[gloomy spruce]

Then I guess I'll start using it, having fun right now

[stiff vine]

also got probably the best reload animation in this battlepass

[shell sonnet]

interesting gimmik that it can destroy walls in ~1.5 mags
takes a while to set up but can potentially replace explosives if you want to bother playing around it

[gloomy spruce]

It has structural damage? Unless you are talking about the walls from Heavy?

[sick ginkgo]

Speaking of the goo gun

[shell sonnet]

all weapons do, just most take 6-ish mags i think (been a while since i tested it)
obvious exception being grenade launcher and matter (iirc its irl counterpart is used as door breaching tool? so it checks out)
i think during mega damage m11 went from taking 5 mags to destroy a wall to 4

[sick ginkgo]

Hitreg on the goo gun feels so bad recently, I feel like I have to lead my shot or hit center mass with it nowadays up close

[dusky field]

Pretty fun and balanced weapon ngl

[gloomy spruce]

Interesting. Thanks for the info

[marble sparrow]

NERF THE DANG CL-40

THE CL-40 does too much damage

[sharp galleon]

Buff riot shield

[muted condor]

Bro is asking for a nerf to the easiest to counter weapon 😭

[cunning crown]

And to one of the worst medium weapons . Like it’s just a Skill issue

[normal ice]

CL-40's damage output is terrible

[faint steppe]

I think people have a problem with cl players jumping around like lunatics without penalty. It's not a problem if your tracking is decent tbh

[normal ice]

Being accurate while moving is indeed one of its true strengths over hitscan options (besides the shotguns). But yeah, jumping is a lot easier to track than erratic strafing and crouching

[muted summit]

Does anyone know how often I have to use the gravity vortex to get it to max level?

[naive raptor]

Will the price of the new gadgets reduce? It's a pain to grind for them

[little loom]

The CL-40 ruins the game

[glossy wind]

Thinking about new light loadout:
Cloaking Device
XP-54
Smoke Grenade
Thermal Vision
Gateway

Anything wrong with this loadout? Any contradictions? Is it good? Anything needed to change?

[glossy wind]

They reduce each season. It’s not a huge inconvenience, but if you play quick play it is. Try world tour. No risk and if you play well you’ll get plenty of VRs.

H+ infuser is the best so far, healing orb is only good for support heavy and a huge pain to carry around imo. If you use the new medium breach thing whatever it’s called your insane. It’s not great.

[spice spindle]

glitch grenade to counter heal meta

[fresh inlet]

is anyone else having issues where sometimes when you use the red dot sight its just blank

[glossy wind]

What would you replace with glitch?

[glossy wind]

No. Could be a graphical error due to anti aliasing

[wind herald]

goog gun fire

[fiery bear]

isn't combining thermal and cloak difficult? why not replace cloak with dash and smoke grenade with cloak grenade

[wind rose]

When someone is nullefied can you shoot through them?

[alpine trail]

sledgehammer is dogwater revert the nerf and fix the bugs that are still unfixed after 10 months

[digital lynx]

Yes it’s dog water but it still works. They should be super nerfing the winch down to like 5m

[alpine trail]

they should also remove heavy's ability to jump

[austere lodge]

Cl40 needs to be nerfed to the ground, bunch of people with no skill lobbing grenades randomly and getting free kills

[boreal laurel]

IDK how they would nerf it, it’s already so trash that it takes most people a whole mag to kill me

[austere lodge]

At least they should Deal damage to teammates

[still parrot]

and its so easily counterable

high ground, aps, dome shield, etc.

[digital lynx]

Nerf cl40 this nerf cl40 that. Just admit you suck it’s not hard to counter the cl40 and even as a partime cl40 main the output is shit, if you aren’t beaming your shots a medium with an akm or fcar will kill you first. Quit whining and hit the practice range

[austere lodge]

That’s what casual players say

Comp is different lil bro

[still parrot]

bro you just unironically said it should friendly fire

[austere lodge]

It should

[still parrot]

you're funny

[carmine cipher]

i personally think it should at least prioritize directs, give it a tighter blast radius and itd be pretty chill
I dont rly play much CL tho nowadays so i cant rly comment too much on it

[austere lodge]

Its a broken weapon

[digital lynx]

Lemme guess you play light lol

[carmine cipher]

you play dagger so from your perspective it will be broken, same way im a little biased against it because I play riot shield

[austere lodge]

Yeah it’s broken

[still parrot]

I wonder why the Light Dagger player thinks the CL is broken

[digital lynx]

It’s every single light player whining saying the cl40 is broken just because you can get 2 shot 😭😂

[carmine cipher]

but i dont think it should be downright nerfed, just make it award you for sick directs n airshots

[austere lodge]

Like I do a solo triple kill and I get killed with a grenade from across the map

[digital lynx]

I think that statement is false. It’s highly unlikely to be killed from across the map

[bitter surge]

Famas might be TOO good

[austere lodge]

Happened to me like 5 times yesterday

[digital lynx]

Clip or it didn’t happen

[carmine cipher]

famas is a crazy good gun rn, esp wit red dot

[austere lodge]

I play in ruby lobbies, these guys have perfect trajectory…

[digital lynx]

Cl40 really isn’t that busted, just use the xp54 and out range them with grapple. It’s not rocket science lmfao

[bitter surge]

Exactly, that sight for some reason it fits the guy insanely perfectly

[carmine cipher]

its cuz its a precision gun with barely any recoil on it, same with the ARN

[digital lynx]

Skill issue I guess 🤷‍♂️

[austere lodge]

Thinking cl40 is balanced is a skill issue

Talking on behalf of all melee players

[carmine cipher]

the thing is if you nerf cl40's damage it becomes useless against heavy

[digital lynx]

I’m literally a melee player and it’s fine

[austere lodge]

Then your new to the game

[carmine cipher]

i'm a melee player and I can agree that its annoying but not broken

[still parrot]

it doesn't need nerfing, the onetrick is just salty he's getting gaped by a mid weapon cause its a near hard counter to his gimmick

[digital lynx]

LOL couldn’t have said it better

[carmine cipher]

and before u say im new as well, ab to hit level 9 on riot, level 5 on spear and 6 on sledge iirc, as well as lv 7 on dagger
been playing melee on and off since closed beta 1 back in march of 2023 :3

[austere lodge]

You guys haven’t fought against actually good cl40 players then

[digital lynx]

It’s like saying “spear needs a nerf because I’m a light player and I tried DBing him, missed my shots then got killed”

[austere lodge]

Lvls dont = skill

[digital lynx]

I’d say I’m a pretty good cl40 main and it’s very situational, it’s either alright or “gotta switch to fcar”

[austere lodge]

Seen a max lvl fcar player have -kd before

[carmine cipher]

they do show experience tho, which you claim those who dont think cl40 is broken lack

besides isnt dagger like the one melee that should be good against cl40? if hes getting time to 2 pipe you before you stab him ur jus not doin it right

[austere lodge]

No it’s not good

1500 hours played with dagger

[digital lynx]

Just bc you miss your backstab and have bad positioning doesn’t mean a weapon is broken lol

[austere lodge]

I dont miss backstabs my man

[digital lynx]

Touch grass blawg 😭😭

Clearly you do if you’re getting piped by a cl40 lmao

[austere lodge]

I’ve perfected my backstabs so much I drop 20+ kills in quick cash average

[carmine cipher]

for someone with that many hrs you woulda thought he coulda found a way to play around it by now

[digital lynx]

Straight up

[carmine cipher]

but as someone who likes melee i will say if they do decide to change it, I'd say just tighten the blast radius, thats ab it

[austere lodge]

That fact is good cl40 players stay behind there teammates so they get to pelt grenades at me while I go for the first 2 players

[digital lynx]

So don’t charge in head first trying to get a clip?

[boreal laurel]

Yeah, truly good CL-40 players are scary. But so are good AK players, good revolver players, good repeater players, good riot shield players….

[austere lodge]

I just said they are not together😭

[boreal laurel]

On a lighter note, what would y’all say: is the healing emitter OP or not?

[austere lodge]

All players with guns are easy to kill

[carmine cipher]

it is okay, honestly i think its too early to say

[austere lodge]

For example if I am invisible they have to hit me with bullets to reveal me

[digital lynx]

Skill issue that they know where you are when you’re invisible

[austere lodge]

Grenades you just launch in the general direction and you can find lights

[austere lodge]

I am saying they can’t when the opponent has a gun

[carmine cipher]

thats kinda how noob tubes have been since launch, not much you can do to change the way a grenade launcher works

[austere lodge]

Friendly fire

So it actually takes some thinking to play it

[carmine cipher]

friendly fire on cl40 is an extremely slippery slope

[digital lynx]

I could get behind tightening the blast radius but that’s rlly about it

[carmine cipher]

as bad actors will 100% use it to grief and troll

[austere lodge]

Pyro grenades exist already

[carmine cipher]

a little fire is easily shaken off, 100 dmg nades not so much

[austere lodge]

Obv it gets reduced when its friendly fire

[digital lynx]

Look dood just chalk it up to a skill issue and maybe pick up a weapon to counter the cl40 rather than complaining your off meta dagger that’s only useful if you get a backstab isn’t working. 🤷‍♂️

Dagger is only good for YouTube montages lol

[austere lodge]

I’m not saying I lose to cl40 just saying it’s annoying fight

[digital lynx]

Well if you aren’t losing then why are you complaining so much? Clearly you’re better than the cl40

[austere lodge]

Because it’s bad for my teammates

And I just said it’s annoying

[carmine cipher]

annoying to fight as one weapon doesnt inherently = should be nerfed

[austere lodge]

What I am trying to say is since I am way above average, what about an actual average dagger player?

[digital lynx]

If you’re winning against it why should it be nerfed? Clearly it isn’t good enough to kill japans #1 dagger player

[austere lodge]

I am saying what about a normal dagger player

[carmine cipher]

i'd say im an average dagger player more or less, cl40 has been an issue but one that can be worked around. it only rly becomes an issue once 2 or 3 are on one team

[austere lodge]

Yes

Or could just be because the cl40 players i play against are all just really cracked

[carmine cipher]

but then again cl40 stacking loses to many other things

[digital lynx]

So if you’re fighting cracked cl40 players I doubt “normal dagger players” would be playing against such same monsters

Again it’s like complaining that you died to a triple stack flamethrower. Just go ranged weapons and poke at them. Just work around the weapon lol

[austere lodge]

If I played dagger for 1500 hours it’s not like I spent another 1000 with ranged guns y know

[digital lynx]

Maybe you should pick up the arn, make a montage of your dagger plays or touch grass

[carmine cipher]

not the arn tho i dont need to get poked cross map by another arn player

[lofty venture]

The CL-40 is by far the most annoying weapon to fight against as it requires a player to equip APS and work 2x as hard as their noobtubing opponent. It's the #1 crutch weapon that players will switch to when they're losing.

The fact that it takes 3x Repeater shots and 4x .357 body shots to kill a medium, but a bunny hopping CL-40 user only needs 3x splash shots to kill a medium, without real concern for self-damage in CQC range is just outrageous. It needs at minimum 2x self-damage like the RPG and should be suicidal at CQC range. The weapon is designed to damage multiple targets to prevent turtling, which it already does a fine job of, but being this good in a 1v1 in CQC range makes shotguns useless.

[digital lynx]

I find it unbelievable that that dagger guy has played 3 hours every single day non stop since day one of the game being out and that’s only on dagger, no other class or weapon

[digital lynx]

Imma need some proof of stats

[austere lodge]

Might be able to find me in the wt leader board

Was top 10 in Asia a few days ago but I wasn’t able to play so might be like 40 or 50 now

[glossy wind]

Yes it is. It’s harder to play against a light keeping his distance that you also can’t see. The higher ranks you go the less dash and more cloak you see. I haven’t really tried it so I want to do it. I’ll probably do the loadout I suggested and have glitch in reserve in case of many heavy/mesh/heals

[fiery bear]

i meant as in activating both

[glossy wind]

Well, I didn’t see a huge use case for thermal vision, but it looks good for tracking. Solid colors are easier to process

[feral horizon]

Medium blade, turret, mine and fire grenade combo is great

[sonic snow]

GET RID OF THE SWORDS AND THEIR ABILITY TO BLOCK EVERY BULLET EVERYWHERE ON THE BODY. IT'S THE WORST THING IN THE GAME.

[timber sparrow]

The dual blades?

like the completely terrible and in desperate need of a buff of any kind dual blades?

[sonic snow]

The things that stop every round that are shot at them???? Yeah they are dumb low skill weapons.

[wicked cloak]

Unrelated to everything else, I think heavys hammer nerf was unnecessary or at least overkill. I've been playing with it for awhile and I think it's fair the slowest class should dominate close range encounters if it sacrifice all consistent range damage

[muted condor]

Iv only been in this server a few days but iv realized most the community here has a crazy skill issue when it comes to fighting anything that isn’t just a AR

[crisp inlet]

The server's game feedback channel is very entertaining but also super sad that a lot of people probably have one really bad game against a weapon, did no counter-play, and is immediately upset and decides to write a Google doc about how broken it is and how it should be fixed

[wicked cloak]

Yeah I HOPE they don't nerf anything that is remotely fun and isn't just an AR and some SMG because the viriaty in gameplay styles and load out is the main appeal to me

[void edge]

Lol, just shoot his feet, genius

Dual blades are one of the worst weapons in the game. If a dual blades user kills you, he very much deserves it

Literally just a worse riot shield imo

[void edge]

Oh yeah? Then use them and win some ranked matches

[grizzled jacinth]

ARN or 93R?

[void edge]

I'm an arn fanboy, but i don't play light often

[quartz badge]

any one else actually use the data reshaper, i only use it while up against turret users but it still has uses outside of disabling turrets

[twilit kestrel]

I thing data reshaper is a niche gadget that is way too situational to be useful

[feral horizon]

Medium with mine and breach drill combo is an absolute medium building destroyer

The drill cooldown is ok

[twilit kestrel]

I didn’t use the drill yet. Is it worth running?

[feral horizon]

I use it cause i found enemy in high ground annoying

So i destroy the high ground that player usually camp

[split anchor]

Buff melee, Reduce melee users healing gained from healing sources by 60% and reduce healing rate by 10%
(Percent values debatable)

The real reason embark felt it would be necessary to nerf the sledgehammer in this recent update is because of the recent addition of the healing gadgets for the heavy and light classes, embark knew they would create a healing meta and from the recent mass nerfing of weapons the sledgehammer would be stronger because any heavy abusing the new healing meta would become near Un-killable but by nerfing sledgehammer’s damage and QM combos the sledgehammer gets out damaged easily and the user dies much easier from ranges coming from even 5m, sledgehammer was already easily out damaged at close range if you knew what you were doing and the sledgehammers attacks are slow and avoiding swings is a skill most high skilled ranked players I encounter have, the sledgehammer had high damage because its a point blank range melee weapon given to the slowest class in the game, so by reducing melee users healing from healing sources and returning melees damage values to before should balance out melee if that is what embark is finding necessary, sledgehammer was already gimmicky as hell and now it is made only viable when paired with WinchClaw even more now than before, nerfing the WinchClaw’s range or by adding a charge up mechanic so the winch claw can be avoided easier, alongside the aforementioned balance ideas would not be a problem if sledgehammer and melee as a whole was returned to its previous damage values

[mossy ibex]

Please buff the sledgehammer's damage. If a melee weapon is weaker than firearms at close range, then it becomes completely meaningless

[cyan vapor]

wooww nice prepective

[placid slate]

I've been looking through the ttk values for most weapons and sledge does seem to kill them before they kill the sledge in 90% of cases, excluding any gadgets the sledge may use

Only weapon I could find off of heavy that would kill sledge first is the sh1900 and dagger (although the dagger would probably die just for getting near a sledge anyway)

[placid slate]

I don't think many buffs that wouldn't make medium and heavy melee feel like shit to play against would make up for the ability to kill one person and be useless for the rest of the fight due to the inability to regain health

[split anchor]

Being greedy for kills should be punishing, the regular 10 second health regen timer for heavy would stay the same while healing items would be less effective and less of a crutch

[placid slate]

Yea but your health regen would be gutted, plus only sledge would've been an issue not spear, or dual blades, or riot shield. So why should they suffer for sledgehammers sins?

[near scroll]

i think they mean this change wouldn't affect natural health regen, only additional healing received from outside sources

[placid slate]

Then why did they say all healing sources then?

[split anchor]

For melee, health is a currency and you must spend it wisely

[near scroll]

"the regular 10 second health regen timer for heavy would stay the same while healing items would be less effective and less of a crutch"
literally in the last message he sent

[placid slate]

That's the time before health regen starts, not the health regen itself

[near scroll]

oh

sorry i'm stupid

[split anchor]

Nah just healing sources

[placid slate]

And? You think that every melee should be nerfed just because of sledgehammer?

[split anchor]

You were right

[near scroll]

yippee! i'm only slightly stupid!

[edgy estuary]

I have mates who still dominate with sword and sledge, starting to think most people are just not as good as they think they are with melee.

[split anchor]

If that’s what will return melee back to normal, this new healing meta effects melee in a vast variety of ways

[placid slate]

It definitely feels like it, I play spear and it baffles me that people think sledge is useless despite being the best melee still

[placid slate]

Haven't seen any increase in riot shield or dual blades, or dagger, or spear. Maybe the heal meta is not going to create a melee meta?

[split anchor]

In casual play it has only been only slightly affected but competitive play has been crippled

[split anchor]

If the sledgehammer wasn’t nerfed it would have certainly have been abused

[placid slate]

So why should all melee catch a stray via healing nerfs if its only sledge that's the problem

[split anchor]

Last time I checked most melees suck (in competitive play) this balance change would allow for more damage as a trade off requiring more skilled play from contestants using melee

[edgy estuary]

People never wanna self reflect though so it must be the weapons problem. Come across plenty of true sword and sledge gods in game still.

[placid slate]

More damage won't do much for a few melees, there comes a point where 400 damage on dagger doesn't change shit

Like there comes a point where more damage doesn't do shit on melee because they hit slow enough for it to be a game of breakpoints

[split anchor]

More damage means the sole purpose of melee is fulfilled, getting in range to attack is the main goal of melee and not having the advantage in damage when in melee range the problem of most melee

[placid slate]

There comes a point where more damage is purely placebo because breakpoints don't change

[split anchor]

More damage = better pay off

[split anchor]

Two different videos comparing pre and post nerf sledgehammer

[placid slate]

That first clip is ironic since it would have played out the exact same for both pre nerf and post nerf sledge

[edgy estuary]

You are still doing just fine? What is the problem?

[placid slate]

Damage doesnt mean shit, breakpoints do

[split anchor]

I didn’t employ my WinchClaw because it would be pointless against a dash light with the removal of QM combos

[split anchor]

Causally, but competitive is suffering

[placid slate]

That was another issue with sledge, the winch claw one shot

Does not feel good the play against, and was solely enabled by a net code change

[split anchor]

Damage meant a lot here

[edgy estuary]

Aren’t melee weapons are supposed to be fun and gimmicky not competitive anyway? Like props to people who have skill and can make them work, I am guessing mostly with indoor objectives.

[placid slate]

Maybe sledge is just not a healthy weapon for the game if it needed to one shot people via a winch?

[stiff vine]

melee weapons arent even fun now because an entire class is a counter to them

[split anchor]

Winch claw was always the problem

[placid slate]

If winch is the problem, why is it only a problem with sledgehammer

[edgy estuary]

Not for people who are actually good with them

Watch BenGores clips, 97% of melee mains don’t play at that level

But think they do

[placid slate]

Like spear doesn't have this issue, you don't hear people complain about it for other guns, you only hear about complaints for it if its used by a sledge

[split anchor]

It’s all about experience and who’s just better in the end

Winch is so versatile, it is a top tier specialization for sure

[near scroll]

spear is only not complained about bc it's underpicked compared to sledge
people absolutely would not like fighting experienced spear players

[edgy estuary]

Yeah being winched + sledged + qm and only being able to escape if I managed to get a goo grenade off or had my jump pad felt as unbalanced if not more than lights old stun gun

[placid slate]

Talking winch specifically, you don't see people complaining about the 110 damage combo off it

[split anchor]

That’s why it needs a nerf or rework

[near scroll]

fair enough. though you do hear people complaining about winch shak and winch SA1216

[near scroll]

if you're a full HP medium this wouldn't kill you (even pre-nerf)

[placid slate]

Not nearly as much as sledge, probably because they are less bursty than it

[split anchor]

Adding a charge time related to range would be the perfect balance solution

[near scroll]

probably because there's still a huge proprtion of the playerbase that thinks melee = noskillnoaim
SA1216 is just as bursty as sledge

[placid slate]

Or maybe we should nerf the weapon that created the problem, or only apply a winch nerf to said weapon

[split anchor]

Exactly what I’m saying

[placid slate]

Two sa12 shots doesn't feel as bad to take in as a sledge qm combo, alesst since the sa12 does 74 damage per round now

[near scroll]

it does 72 and you can definitely fire twice in the same time it takes sledge to m1 quick melee, so both options do the same damage in the same time xd

you yourself are showing that this community is biased against melee, both options result in the same damage output yet you say sledge feels worse

also quick melee has a wind down, so the next sledge attacks would take a bit to come out while SA1216 can just full auto up to 4 72dmg shots then add quick melee on top

[placid slate]

Not biased against melee, at most I'm biased against sledge

[near scroll]

why tho

[placid slate]

Got that tragic villain backstory

[near scroll]

did your parents get sledged?

[placid slate]

No, that would've been funnier though

[near scroll]

how hahahaha

[placid slate]

It all started in season 3 where little Sea Urchin got his hands on a long pointy stick

He committed his time and effort to learning it, learning all the little bits of knowledge and gamesense to not explode when playing with the spear

Meanwhile, fucking sledge players didn't have to put in even half the effort to kill targets. Shit really started when I picked up the sledge for the first time and got 25 kills in my first match with it

[near scroll]

oh well yeah spear has always been sad but don't blame us sledge players :(

[placid slate]

The worst part wasn't the fact that it outperformed the spear, it was that a 1v1 between the sledge and spear was completely lopsided

[near scroll]

both were true ngl

[placid slate]

While 90% of sledge player thought they were the shit for pressing right click twice on a spear heavy

[near scroll]

sledge's utility is just too valuable esp in coordinated environments, so i never understood why spear was so weak damage wise, in comparaison

[near scroll]

every time i sledged a spear player it was this going through my mind

[placid slate]

Since then I have dedicated my life to cyberbullying sledge players in game through several means

Mainly throwing them off cliffs with winch

[near scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/salute-crying-sad-gif-15286789

[placid slate]

And as of this season, my wishes for fair and equal 1v1s between sledge and spear has been granted

I do not give a shit about how sledge performs overall, I only care about the duel

[near scroll]

fair enough :)
i've always dunked on winch sledge users with goo spear so duels nowadays are quite easy ngl

[placid slate]

And now we are probably going to go back to the status quo due to the whining of sledge player who claim "make melee good again" but did not care about any of the melee changes prior to the sledge nerf

They were not there when spear got nerfed, they were not there when dagger got nerfed, they were bot there when sword got nerfed

They do not want melee to be good, they just want sledge at the top of the melee food chain again

[near scroll]

many players one trick a loadout, there's only few of us that have actively played all melees and care for them all

[placid slate]

Probably true for sledge, most of em haven't even felt a fraction of the effort any other melee needs to kill

[indigo nexus]

Spear? I do not remember a nerf to that

It’s had 3 buff patches though, iirc

[stiff vine]

called it

fixed heal emitter but not the infuser

[visual loom]

Embark I think you forgot to revert the bug making the sledge complete ass

[gritty swallow]

I know there are some goo guru's in here, so can sombody tell me some uses and tricks for the goo gun?

[near scroll]

only "nerf" it got was a slight reduction in spin's push force to reduce the powershift platform shenanigans

[visual loom]

Builds stairs or whatever you want, hide cashout, shoot ennemies to bully and make them stuck, prevent cashout steal, push stuff around (make cashout fall off the map). Be creative and have fun

[gritty swallow]

ok , what weapon should I use with it tho?

[void edge]

Any situation, goo gun has a use

You just have to think hard enough

[void edge]

I'm running flamethrower and sledge

[near scroll]

most of them work well, flame/sledge/spear (close quarters weapon) work pretty well with the agressive goo locking playstyle
while most guns work pretty well with the mobile bunker, making headglitches and shit type playstyle

[gritty swallow]

I realy like the goo flash thing , idk what its called

[void edge]

Is that when you break los for a flash bang?

[visual loom]

Used to main sledge+goo, still fun in casual but impossible in ranked due to the nerf

[near scroll]

idk if it has a name, but just in case u don't know u can break LoS by gooing your feet as well

[void edge]

Ikr, i feel so uncool without my qm combos

[gritty swallow]

ye its surprisingly easy, you cacoon or legit just shoot a gblob right in front

[near scroll]

tbh i think it's still viable but you absolutely need to play in a 3 stack where the team comp is built around you

[void edge]

Flame thrower is chaos though if you want to go that route

Very fun and satisfying

Someone on here told me to run lockbolt and it's so cool

[visual loom]

I only solo queue and the few times I tried to play sledge in ranked I got trashed by my mates. The time to kill is just horrendous now, can't kill anything by myself besides uncautious lights

[void edge]

I feel like I'm spamming m1 more with the sledge instead of more interesting decision. Making

[near scroll]

yeah goo sledge now is just blob m1 blob m1 repeat till death

[near scroll]

yeah reason i said that is cause of sledge's utility but in soloQ no way in hell, just run shak or smth idk

[void edge]

Half the fun of goo sledge to me is the creativity, you can destroy and build anything you want

I wasn't smart enough last season to play it but I'm getting better with it

Also, what are ppl using for destruction with the goo flamethrower? C4 rpg?

[gritty swallow]

a combo that sounds really nice is ks 23 and goo gun cause then your an expert in destruction and creation but ks 23 meh in acual fire fights if I got a close team its really nice to assist other people tho. them buffing the building dmg on ks made it realy fun to use I once got a cashout by removing the floor in the hallway leading to the cashout and even if they brought the cashout down I still had highground/ 2 shotting floors is really nice

[void edge]

Only problem is my aim is so bad.

Like it's actually embarassing

[near scroll]

if you care most about destruction run C4 imo, RPG is best when you might need either added firepower or destruction

[gritty swallow]

I have only had one game where I didn't just wiff almost all my shots with the ks , and then the reload is horrid

[void edge]

I have lost fights with a revved up minigun and high ground on a light

[mighty knot]

i feel like rpg is more versatile in its destruction. Don't need to close distance to destroy enemy cover

[gritty swallow]

I play on 30 fps some times on a old ish laptop, but when I hit my shots I pop off when I don't stutter that is

[void edge]

So that makes my fire loadout, goo gun, flame, goo grenade, lockbolt and c4

[near scroll]

yeah but you need LoS, in general RPG is more of an "oh shit i gotta break this now" whereas C4 needs planning to work

[near scroll]

pretty nice
i've heard flamethrower mains reccomend pyro mines but can't remember why, maybe ask in #heavy-build-main

[mighty knot]

true that

[void edge]

You can combo them

Like chuck a mine and explode it midair with the flamethrower

[near scroll]

do the damage over times stack? like one DOT from flamer one DOT from pyro mine

[void edge]

I think it's more from the explosion dmg of the mine

[near scroll]

interesting

C4 could be used similarly then maybe?

[void edge]

I could try it

[near scroll]

if you're gonna run C4 anyways, might as well haha

[stiff vine]

c4 does work with flame for a burstof damage but its weaker since the c4 isnt primed

[gritty swallow]

just so you know a C4 and a pyro mine on top gives you a remote explosive that one taps lights from 3M or less

[near scroll]

do pyro mines prime instantly?

[gritty swallow]

no a few sec

[near scroll]

yea c4 pyro mine is a nasty combo, i like it :D

[gritty swallow]

I also found a way to make it work on mediums, still got to test the range on it tho

[near scroll]

do tell

[gritty swallow]

I have not tried it in a real match yet but it looks promosing but kinda niche

[near scroll]

do tell

[stiff vine]

no

[gritty swallow]

give me a sec imma test range first

[red dove]

Buff dagger lol

[near scroll]

buff all melees bro 😭

[stiff vine]

if i remember correctly fire mines deal around 30-40 damage when unprimed but still spew fire

[near scroll]

is the fire dmg unaffected?

[stiff vine]

fire and gas from mines is unnaffected but the explosion from stepping on them is

you can try it yourself by taking a mine in the practice range and meleeing it before the prime beep and after the prime beep

[near scroll]

so thats why people combo pyro mines w flamethrower, ok i get it now, ty bro

[stiff vine]

the fire dot doesnt stack with pyro mine dot, but the fire pyro mines set down does stack with flamethrower

[placid slate]

Spin sliding got removed

[gritty swallow]

was going to say red canister but you have to get it way to close to them for that to work, and at that point the mines would just explode. 2 pyro mines does do it tho from about 2 meters so don't know if that is usefull at all

[stoic garden]

emitter doesn't heal thru barricades anymore 😢

[viscid crag]

• Medium heal beam should become a gadget.
• New Medium special; Recoil Stabilizer, for a few seconds gun recoil is heavily reduced. (Makes mediums more dangerous against close range heavies and long range lights.)
• Heavy healing ball should heal allies and enemies. (Makes it a risk to use around melee and flamethrower.)
  Just a few suggestions.

[gloomy bobcat]

EMBARK PLEASEEEE DROP BOW ANIMATIONSSS ILL BE YOUR SLAVE

[near scroll]

good

[spice spindle]

there should be a gadget that lets you summon susanoo and bring down a meteor on citadel

[thick holly]

Heal beam should probably stay a specialization. Turning it into a gadget would mess up a lot of people's builds

If anything, the heal beam should have some more functionality

[alpine trellis]

Add a slingshot next season for the heavys. I went to pelt lights in the head with rocks

Maybe a dennis the menace skin to boot

[gritty swallow]

I have found somthing interesting. not sure if this is usefull for anything tho

[oblique crypt]

I've been using that combo too recently with the goo gun to hide the setup and trap them in the pyro mine.

[stiff vine]

i cant tell between the pixels, what am i looking at

[raw cave]

rework, changing the numbers won't do a job. I really like the idea Appoh suggested about melee having diferent quick melees, like give riot a shield bash that will maybe do 20 damage but has other usefull features like denying a spec using or even weapon using, to make it viable against sledge

[wind folio]

this minecraft update is crazy

[gritty swallow]

wait il turn down my settings so you can see beter

[inland fossil]

in love with that shader pack 😍

[gritty swallow]

I know the pack looks even beter on enemy's

[placid slate]

You used to be able to surf on barricades before they fixed it

[near scroll]

a funny one is creating a goocoon around cashout but leaving a convenient hole to get in, then you hit em with the C4 pyro mine lol

[gritty swallow]

I got a baracade to launch me twice but idk how , with the grenade trick( thowing grenade under it)

[placid slate]

I might have a clip somewhere gimme a sec

[near scroll]

i agree that if quick melee on melee weapons is such a big problem, then giving each of the weapons unique quick melees would be an elegant and polished approach

[crude urchin]

What's the best mode to play for XP/progression?

[placid slate]

Found it: https://youtu.be/QBxHKIyT4Fo?si=AnPjY3ZGoAt6PUc-

[gritty swallow]

I dropped my glasses

[inland fossil]

good heavens

[gritty swallow]

that is with texture on epic btw

[small bramble]

Where's the Shak and awe animation set? I thought I saw it on preview somewhere

[gritty swallow]

I found a way to make it launch you with a grenade but its not very far

[graceful nova]

There was some aggressive CL-40 user in a TDM match.

We tried gaining high ground, but they had jump pad to overcome our height advantage.

Some of us tried closing in to force them to take self damage. But that isn’t working out either.

Only when our light contestant starts running SH1900 do we see results…

[torn mantle]

Can you put turrets on the heal emitter?

[shell sonnet]

dont think so
iirc oscar tried to on stream

[shell sonnet]

if you jump while shooting right at your feet with cl-40 you go from 2-shotting yourself to 4-shotting yourself
right at your feet mind you, any angle and its even less damage (which it is a majority of the time)
while it is hard to get that close anyways

it should have a higher aoe in which it deals max self damage so at least bunny hopping isnt as effective

[eternal lodge]

Nade launcher and Riot shield this season are a real pain in the ...

[normal ice]

Jumping in of itself is already making you more vulnerable, though. Yes, you mitigate the self-damage a little (still enough damage to kill yourself), but you become an extremely easy target to track

[shell sonnet]

bunny hopping is not as risky as slowly strafing while aiming down sight with every other gun

[normal ice]

It depends on what exactly you're trying to dodge, but generally speaking, you move more unpredictably when strafing and crouchspamming than you do with small backpedalling jumps

Higher movement speed does not necessarily mean better dodging

[shell sonnet]

it may be true that it can be more unpredictable, but you also need to readjust for less, where bunny hopping, especially at close range, asks for much greater flicking

[normal ice]

I dunno, doesn't seem like that much flicking to me tbh

Compared to all the other movement shit in the game

[graceful nova]

When taking advantage of the enemies’ CL-40 self damage, I usually try walking towards them and hipfire.

The only weapon class that makes sense when fighting like this is melee.

Obviously the other option is burst damage and evasion. Which is exactly what a dash-SH1900 setup is good for.

[shell sonnet]

may i slightly change the topic?

[normal ice]

Indeed, melee is normally very good against CL-40. Melee is sadly overnerfed atm

[normal ice]

Yeah, what's up?

[graceful nova]

Both medium melees can’t block grenade damage so that’s a tough one. They can run an APS on a prop piece though. But that means a whole gadget just to counter CL-40

Heavy is slow but can catch up with shield, charge and slam or winch. Or even Goo gun.

Light has the burst damage but they are easy money to CL-40 if they are ever spotted. I don’t know if dash can even save them due to splash damage

[normal ice]

When Sword's Lunge did 140 damage, it was enough for CL-40 to kill themselves on accident. It happened to me a couple times actually

[muted condor]

If you’re dying to a cl40 as a light that just means your positioning horribly

[shell sonnet]

what youre saying may be true, but i feel like thats up to a lot of factors like skill, what mode you play, etc
im not sure how much sense it makes to discuss this specifically

i hope this doesnt sound like cherry picking or something, but i do think that bhopping offsets the risks it prevents way more than the new risks it introduces, at least in a casual enviroment where i think a lot of the complaints come from (which is what id like to talk about instead)

[graceful nova]

If I use CL-40, it’s from far away, since I’d like to avoid self damage or fighting people directly altogether.

And maybe run it with Demat for surprise roof top strikes

[graceful nova]

*If you’re dying as a light in general

Playing as a Light is the hard way to learn positioning

In fact I restrain from using my specs as a Light since I’d rather be in situations where I don’t need it

[muted condor]

I don’t play light much because I suck at timing my specs

[static grove]

WHAT IS THE BEST anti-light WEAPON for medium? After Cerberus nerfing I feel orphan

[muted condor]

Any AR or the revolver if you’re cracked af

[normal ice]

It's reasonable to say CL-40's skill floor may be too low compared to other guns in the game and may be oppressive under Gold. Trust me, I am no fan of trickle-down balance. But I do also think it's fine as is. What we need is to buff other weapons that have been nerfed to shit before touching CL-40, including melee weapons and Model 1887. These are also low skill floor weapons that happen to counter CL-40 well.

[shell sonnet]

imo it would be healthy for the game if very close range shots had reliable self damage (specifically surrounding bhopping)
so if cl-40 dealt full self damage in ~1 meter (or whatever exactly the jump height is, maybe very lightly more to allow a tiny bit of distance), it would likely cut a lot of complaints from casuals since getting close is actually properly risky and allows the light to at the very least trade if they get in a cl mediums face

[dusky field]

Idk if i read that wrong but did you just call Model a low skill floor weapon?

[normal ice]

Too much self-damage just makes it unusable though. When it was doing x1.6 self damage, I think I saw a total of literally 2 people using it all season. Nobody won with it

[muted condor]

They could lower the AOE on it but raise the fire rate and reload time if people really think it’s a cheese gun

[dusky field]

There were times where you could 2 shot yourself with CL lol

[shell sonnet]

ofc we should buff those back up
but its also not just about counters (personally i despise rock, paper, scissors balancing, bless the changes made to aps)
more reliable self damage to take advantage off would improve counterplay across teh board and wouldnt make people feel the need to avoid specific weapons they like to have a better chance

[normal ice]

It's not THAT low, but you still don't have to aim for headshots or worry about movement inaccuracy. Compared to most other weps, it's a low skill floor

[shell sonnet]

thats why i dont want the old self damage back, it was way too punishing and sometimes lost fights because you accidentally hit a wall

i want a bigger aoe for the current max self damage instead

[graceful nova]

Even before S7 I see teammates with bad aim get to final round in WT gold with the CL-40

I think self damage with a grenade launcher should be decently punishing

[normal ice]

I mean, to be frank with you, you don't HAVE to counterswap to fight CL-40. You can just out-TTK most of the time. That just becomes a literal skill test.

You know what weapons do actually force you to counterswap? Long-range weapons.

Mostly when paired with long-range maps

[shell sonnet]

You can just out-TTK most of the time. That just becomes a literal skill test.
technically true, but i do think that the skill floor required for it makes the difference here, especially in casual

Long-range weapons.
real, i dont really like fighting em
at least sniper got nerfed

[weak kernel]

eternal reminder that even at its absolute strongest the CL-40 was nowhere approaching meta because the flaw of being a lower TTK projectile weapon with hard counters other weapons don't have is huge

and if u think it's "annoying to play against" in a way that the good rifles aren't i just think ur wrong

fuck pre-nerf cerb was more annoying than peak CL-40 because it was just an instant death radius against anyone decent against a class that's traditionally not that strong up close

[muted condor]

Buff my boy the cl40

[placid slate]

I think it isn't the stats that make it annoying, it's audio and visuals

[graceful nova]

Agree

But like the CL-40 user, I have no aim

Actually my aim is pretty decent. Yet not enough to out-ttk something that doesn’t take much work to land shots

[muted condor]

Being able to actually two tap a light consistently takes really good aim

[weak kernel]

but see like, the CL-40's TTK is already notably lower than other weapons with direct hits, that means if they're splashing you by "not aiming" their ttk is even lower

[supple cove]

How's sh1900 right now?

[shell sonnet]

its not just about ttk tho

[graceful nova]

TTK only applies if you actually hit

[boreal laurel]

Cerby is still good—I still pull 8-kill games regularly with it. Other than that I would probably say a good ol’-fashioned AR, or maybe FAMAS or the repeater if your aim is good

[graceful nova]

I’m so sorry, I aim train 30 minutes in the practice range everyday to flick dashing lights, I shouldn’t be complaining about CL-40

[weak kernel]

it's pretty damn important and tbh even if you want to go into the details of varied situations and use cases the CL is probably less reliable on the regular

[timber sparrow]

people hate the cl40 because a chimp can use it effectively

[supple cove]

There's a flicking exercise in practice range? I went there once and i guess i missed it

[weak kernel]

this but the assault rifles

[graceful nova]

There’s no flicking exercise, I just 2 tap all the dummies down the range as efficiently as possible.

S7 threw a whole mini game set into the range. The shooting gallery starts to look a bit more like those Aimlab scenarios

[supple cove]

I'll take note, sounds fun

[static grove]

Beacuse it require no skills and is dumb and oppresive, yes

[supple cove]

I need a some tips for using sh1900 actually, hope i can find some here

No I'm not ratting with it and I'm actively supporting my team

[oblique crypt]

Why is everyone talking about the CL40 now? Was it buffed recently or something?

[boreal laurel]

No, it’s just being used by a lot of people since the Cerberus was nerfed

[weak kernel]

they nerfed the cerb which brought up its use so despite being untouched it is now apparently a problem

[graceful nova]

Also I think it has to do with melee getting nerfed too

[boreal laurel]

As for me, I don’t get all the fuss. I just walk up to CL-40 users and watch them die 😏

[graceful nova]

On paper I agree CL-40 is not a big deal, but in TDM they are just annoying sometimes. Light can escape, but it is too squishy and if your positioning is bad, so is your lifespan. Anything slower won’t escape the easy damage behind walls - as CL-40 should be doing. So the only way is to throw all your chips - and maybe coins - straight into their faces

At least against melee you can just run away if your class is faster

[shell sonnet]

ttk gets lower as skill goes up
you get closer and closer to the perfect ttk, but can never exceed it
at which point having a slow ttk like with cl-40 becomes a detriment

but in the opposite way, at lower skill levels, where nobody reaches a perfect ttk, having a higher cap is less of a detriment, and cl-40 ease of use starts to shine through

its bad at high elo and shines in low elo due to its ease of use

getting the counterplay of getting close to the user be more reliable by limiting how much bhopping reduces self damage would likely greatly aid in reducing frustrations surround it at lower levels

[graceful nova]

Someone in a TDM match last night is landing full M11 sprays like 30-50 meters away.

[stone sparrow]

Ks should be like Grenade launchers it’s already projectile it doesn’t need to be inconsistent on top of it being projectile and again why can I not aim down iron feels weird that it’s the only shotgun you can’t ads

[shell sonnet]

glad they buffed its accuracy but imo they shouldve gone all in and just gave it cl-40 spread
(100% accurace at all times unless bunny hopping)

[placid slate]

It's a slug shotgun, plus mgl already fills the grenade launcher slot

[stiff vine]

why not 2 grenade launchers

[muted condor]

Light players are upset they can die to something in two shots despite the DB existing

[blazing flume]

To be fair, ads on other shotguns doesn’t do anything except if it helps you visually, but I can’t remember if KS is effected by ads or not

[stone sparrow]

Not talking about it being a grenade launcher I’m saying it should have the same accuracy as the mgl it’s inconsistent when moving

[stiff vine]

it is

[timber sparrow]

Buff cl40

[stone sparrow]

It is it’s the only time it’s accurate

[graceful nova]

S6 I tried running CL-40 with jump pad on powershift and it’s pretty easy to land shots. Even when the enemy tries gaining high ground

[weak kernel]

i am literally a light DB player and the CL-40 is fine lmao

[graceful nova]

You’re exactly the type of player to counter the CL-40

[stiff vine]

you're using explosives on a gamemode where players are forced to be semi-stationary

[graceful nova]

2-tap or to be 2-tapped, no in between

[muted condor]

I think both weapons are fine but if people want the cl40 to be nerfed for being cheesy the DB should get it to

[shell sonnet]

like, take getting close as light
cl-40 2-shots you
it also 2-shots them but only if they take full self damage
if you manage to get close, and did your part of the counterplay, the enemy can now almost completely sidestep it by just jumping
you die in 2 shots and the medium lives on 80hp

to avoid that you need to shoot them, which will often times slow you down (if youre ads'ing or not), giving the medium even more time to kill you before you get close

making the max self damage radius bigger would prevent them from counter-counterplaying and actually make it up to the user to apply it, instead of hoping the enemy doesnt know
making it actually interactive and not feel out of your controle

[graceful nova]

I go after the roof enemies overlooking the platform first.

Well, since the platform is where I’d be looking next

[stone sparrow]

They want to make it useful but they are changing the wrong things the biggest issue with the gun is it’s amazing ability to become inaccurate asf while jumping sliding or running

[shell sonnet]

db is a really good weapon in general, and especially against it
but in my experience most other weapons on light specifically suffer under it

[weak kernel]

i genuinely do not think the CL-40 needs getting up close to be some hard lose condition for it. yes, it's a grenade launcher. another part of it being a grenade launcher is that it sucks at long range, it doesn't need to have this super tight sweetspot when it's already one of medium's worst weapons unless you're just meandering in and mindlessly chasing someone using it, walking into their pipes around corners

[normal ice]

I wish Power Shift was never added. It sucks, I'm tired of contracts making me play it, and I'm tired of people who for some reason only decide to ever play it crying for nerfs all day

[graceful nova]

Maybe I should learn other ways to play against CL-40

[muted condor]

They should make the cl40 full auto :)

[weak kernel]

SO true

[graceful nova]

I can control day and night!

[muted condor]

Just for the hell of it

Bursts fires all five shots at once

[graceful nova]

Embark as a developer had experience making full auto grenade launchers as a primary weapon (BF3 USAS12)

[shell sonnet]

not a hard loose condition, i dont like those
but imo it should at least be a more reliable disadvantage to make use of

[muted condor]

It’s at a disadvantage in 90% of fights

The only time it has the upper hand is if you have high ground and the enemy is 10-20 meters away

[graceful nova]

Exactly the kind of environment casual TDM is usually in

[shell sonnet]

or PS

then add on that medium has jump pad which is free distance+high ground

(tho i can already hear yall yelling that its basically shooting a clay pigeon and free food since theyre exposed...)

[graceful nova]

I use to beam everyone 30-40 m away with my AKM on PS4. But PS5 auto gyro calibration is dumb so I have to fight an actually random recoil pattern…

[graceful nova]

If they can beam CL-40 user they won’t complain

[muted condor]

TDM in general shouldn’t be considered when balancing items imo

[weak kernel]

if nerfing cerb was really all it took for people to decide the CL-40 was overpowered imagine how bad the cerb must have been lmao

[shell sonnet]

which im afraid is a problem

perspective

[graceful nova]

My TDM K/D is around 1.5 on average. The weapons are balanced around 3v3 team fights. The damage per mag isn’t enough for 5 opponents. Most of my inevitable TDM deaths is by being overwhelmed

[shell sonnet]

i mean, every game-mode's experience is valid
it just matters a lot that you dont make it worse everywhere else

like, say people complain about explosive spam on PS, if there was a way to rebalance cl-40 that makes this a non issue there, and has 0 negative effects anywhere else, why would you not apply it?

obviously reality isnt as clean, but its worthy of trying

[muted condor]

TDM is more of a party game mode and the game is not built for it. If you try to balance for it you end up like D2

[shell sonnet]

||D2||?

[muted condor]

||Destiny 2||

The balancing in that game is so all over the place and volatile

[shell sonnet]

never played destiny, so idk about the exact circumstances

rebalancing needs to be done with care and consideration
maybe they messed it up, but that doesnt mean we have to
if there is a solution, and it only improves things, then it should be done

[muted condor]

Also I should have spoiled that to start with

Sorry to anyone I may have caused mental distress for having to read that name

[shell sonnet]

very considerate of you

[graceful nova]

I can’t beam with AKM on PS5 until Sony fixes the console OS

AKM recoil pattern? Easy just pull down lol. Exactly what I was doing. Until the auto calibration (OS level) kicks in. So if I leave my controller idle (gyro still on), the crosshair starts drifting up as if the recoil is actually happening

[eternal lodge]

Best counter for Riot Shield ? any suggestion ? Cause right now it's the dumbest loadout hard to counter except from the back. But it's really hard to know where the shield is really, look like the 3d model you see is not the 3d model used by the game, it counter my shots even on the side and sometime from the back even if you see the player not facing you he sill counter my bullets ... So yes this loadout is a bit weird.

Maybe a server side cause since season 7 look like I play on NA servers with 200 pings on the west side of US, but I'm in EU and even if I have optic fiber connection it's a reall pain ...
Any way on the scoreboard to see your ping ?

[blazing flume]

Fire, grenades, mines, gas, basically stuff that doesn’t only damage from one side

[eternal lodge]

yeah but really situational

and still hard to counter

[normal ice]

you can't see ping

Just stick to the Riot Shield's right side, focus down their teammates, or use burst damage

[muted condor]

Honestly just walk away and kill their team

[eternal lodge]

yeah but in this case you don't counter

[muted condor]

Trying to kill the shield user is exactly what they want you to do

[eternal lodge]

so you just don't play it

[muted condor]

As long as you ignore him they are basically down a player

[normal ice]

the counter to tanks in any game is to not let them tank. You push past or around them, then you deny the area they were claiming

[muted condor]

The entire point t of the shield is to waste your time, once you find out they really can’t do anything to you if you walk away they become useless

[blazing flume]

Honestly just take a fire grenade with you, they’ll most likely lower their shield to run out of the fire

[normal ice]

Also, melee weapons suffer from verticality especially bad

[muted condor]

I used to main the shield and I’d always die after both my team mates died and I was defenseless

[normal ice]

Keep highground and have movement gadgets on hand. Then they can't even touch you

[eternal lodge]

melee weapon is meh ... why ! why did they do that !
Hammer, sword, etc ... I really don't like this

[normal ice]

don't like what, exactly?

[eternal lodge]

melee weapons

[normal ice]

okay well go play CoD ig lol
Not everyone wants to play hitscan all day

[muted condor]

If you really want a hard counter tho hammer/flamethrower/DB

[eternal lodge]

ok have you more to say than go play COD ?

[normal ice]

The Finals' melee weapons are relatively unique compared to every other shooter. You don't like them, then try another game

[eternal lodge]

just tell you what I don't like I'm not a dev I don't choose anything I just play

[muted condor]

Do you not like playing with melee or fighting melee?

[eternal lodge]

both

but it's only my point. I don't say it's horrible

just I don't like it

[normal ice]

Well, if you're really dedicated to just playing full-auto hitscan weapons, then you shouldn't be worried about melee. Because melee weapons are nigh useless in Platinum and above now

[muted condor]

That’s why I’m happy all my randoms throw every ranked match and I get to stay in silver and gold

[normal ice]

lol

[warm turtle]

Yo is it me or is there an acog on the rifle for the cover of the urban ronin set

[iron shell]

Can we pls get the acog for the fcar and akm

[slim fable]

a flash bang skin that looks like a light bulb would be funny

[tidal urchin]

you are ruining your game being competitive with the cl40 shit is ridiculous. nerf it or take it out of world tour.. for sure ranked.. stupid

[normal ice]

a "competitive game" means inviting the most mechanically and strategically skilled players to duke it out. guess what, NOBODY in Ruby uses CL-40 lmfao

it's not OP lil bro

it's only viable if nobody in your lobby can land at least half of their bullets

[lavish swallow]

Revert sword pls

[tidal urchin]

not true esp with heavy having healing ball now.. and random team8. Scroll up on the chat. Everyone agrees about the cl40 "lil bro"

[arctic compass]

Bro didn’t even read what he said 💀

[umbral stone]

I hate playing against the cl40 like most people in this game, but like most people in this game I’m also a casual player. In a competitive setting it can’t compete with a player hitting 80%+ shots

[graceful nova]

Isn’t this all on the wiki

[normal ice]

Nah, try as you might, about half of us think CL-40 is fine. And randomly polling the Discord server where there are plenty of newbies who only play spinoff modes is not a good assessment of CL-40's competitive viability lol

[muted condor]

If the CL40 is broken why did no one use it last season?

[tidal urchin]

im not saying in a 1v1 gun fight is the thing.. its 3v3. hard to gun fight a heavy with a heal ball and hit " 80 percent of your shots" with gerande launcher just spaming shots at you

[graceful nova]

In high elo most hitscan ranged weapons can out damage and outrange CL-40 users

In low elo, melees were one answer to the CL-40 because people can’t aim as well.

[muted condor]

“It’s hard to fight a well fortified heavy that is supporting his team”

[tidal urchin]

not saying heavy is the problem lol'

[muted condor]

Then why are you having a hard time killing the medium?

[normal ice]

Take highground and focus the CL-40 down first before worrying about the Heavy. You usually want to kill Mediums first, anyway, since they're the support with Defib and Demat/Heal Beam

[graceful nova]

The counter to shields and heal are glitch grenade

Yet glitch grenades can be intercepted with APS, 5 times per turret, or by simply by not being hit somehow.

So a Heavy player with mesh shields/barricades guarding the APS turret can only be countered with primary fire at range

[muted condor]

Is that a bad thing?

It takes a full kit and a half to make it work I sure hope it’s hard to counter

[graceful nova]

No I’m not complaining about anything

I’m going to form a loving relationship with the APS turret

[muted condor]

Ah

My bad, I’m used to people asking for nerfs rn

[graceful nova]

APS turret can now block 5 projectiles (all gadget grenades, all grenade launchers, RPGs, mines, etc.)

I love APS turret

[muted condor]

I love my little team mates that use APS

[sudden pewter]

Friendship with double mobility medium ENDED

APS/Healbeam Medium new best friend
||At least for TDM/Powershift||

[hard pewter]

@blazing flume About the 5 dmg. Why stun gun or nulifier never did any dmg ? The first one electrify you, litteraly. The new one do "something" like the bolt so why not ?

And why nerf ? Because every buff on Light never stay long. Weakest class in the game but you still have to play your life to be effective. It should be deadly but people cry everytime on discord about light when IG they trash talk on them. Medium should be balance and support. Heavy tanky and constant dmg. Both of them do more than that while Light aren't deadly at all

[sudden pewter]

Dawg the light has the highest burst damage in the game, the stun gun rework is S tier and you’re coping because you can’t guarantee a free kill

Light isn’t a one man army, fight with your team and reap the rewards

(You have the mobility to pick and choose your fights, you can run from a 1v1 with a heavy)

[hard pewter]

White name + new one here + heavy main.

Stay where you are. Look at the TTK on paper and try it IG first.
150HP is even less than the half of yours.

Again, stay at your place.

[blazing flume]

Light is like the deadliest class if you’re competent enough to use it correctly

[sudden pewter]

If you can’t come up with a counter it just shows how weak your position is. 🤷‍♂️

[faint steppe]

TTK on paper means pretty much nothing unless the light just stands in one place doing nothing.

[sudden pewter]

Erm, no ☝️ 🤓
Medium Main + Ospuze Fan
Stay at your place…

[hard pewter]

[sudden pewter]

I hope you can see how ridiculous you look

[faint steppe]

I am at my place rn

[sudden pewter]

Same!

Jokes aside, try playing Medium/Heavy and just take notes of how you’re dying to lights. What they’re doing well and how they find success

I absolutely hated DB lights when I first started because no-skill CQC burst weapon with 0 counterplay

Until I tried doing it myself, and really had to learn what made doing such plays and surviving work

[faint steppe]

I don't think they are incredibly overpowered or anything and stuff like DB and sword, while annoying, were never the problem.

My problem with light is how much faster they regen and how many tools they have to escape unfavorable engagements. People always bring up the TTK argument which is worthless because a good light will just play hit&run over and over. It's literally the most infuriating play style and it feels like our hitreg can't keep up with light's speed

[umbral stone]

Ttk is definitely not worthless, it’s one of the most important factors in who’s gonna win a fight with 2 equally matched players. Granted, it’s not the only factor which a lot of people like to imply but saying it means nothing is definitely not accurate

[sudden pewter]

Completely agree king 💅
Light isn’t OP
It’s just the class that can capitalize the most on unfavorable situations

My only real issue with lights(and admittedly it isn’t even with the class itself) is the players. They’re the most played class and I take issue anytime they cry “X is unbalanced” because they refuse to play around it

[ember junco]

Does anyone have the wireframe bundle on ps5
It’s free from ps plus but I can’t figure out what charm I got from it

[faint steppe]

It's pretty worthless in a game like this. Nobody hits perfect shots on a good dashing&strafing light

[shut bane]

Wee bit of a skill issue

[lusty drum]

It’s the one called glowrious charm

[sudden pewter]

CL40 is unchanged since last season and only now are we seeing a major spike in “OP! OP!” Because it’s now entered their narrow cone of vision. Lights can outrange/outdamage it or even just clean up after an engagement. So many options the general population don’t consider because they don’t think

[shut bane]

Literally just get up in their face

[sudden pewter]

The objectively good rework to the stun gun also got a lot of kickback which is absolutely ludicrous because everyone that doesn’t main light immediately saw its value in team play

[ember junco]

Do you have a picture of it? I can’t see it in my list of charms

Is it a rare charm or epic?

[umbral stone]

Shak 50 ttk against light is .57 seconds, xp54 ttk against heavy is 1.48 seconds. That means the light has to hit almost 3x as many shots in a 1v1 against a heavy to win that fight. Ttk absolutely matters

[lusty drum]

Not letting me post picture, but it’s rare and looks like an old vaccum tube

[ember junco]

This?

[sudden pewter]

TTK does matter, but there’s also a bunch of other factors to consider in the average engagement. Lights shouldn’t be trying to 1v1 a Heavy face to face anyhow

[lusty drum]

Yep that’s it!

[ember junco]

I found it the bundle says epic charm that’s why I couldn’t find it thanks

[sudden pewter]

Oh I’m orange now 🍊

[charred ocean]

You gotta take into account how hard it is to hit a light thats running around with only 20 bullets in a mag tho

[umbral stone]

Agreed 100%. Just replying to the claim that ttk is worthless

[sudden pewter]

I think that was a bad point as well, carry on o7

[charred ocean]

Like maybe im just bad but lowkey lights should not do allat damage to a heavy

[sudden pewter]

Lights shouldn’t be helpless but they also shouldn’t be trying to fight a heavy man to man unless the Heavy is retreating from a fight or already wounded

Too many players forget the glass part of “glass cannon”

[umbral stone]

Agreed, which is why there’s a ttk difference to balance that. Not saying lights are underpowered or anything just replying to the claim that ttk doesn’t matter

Ttk is what makes up that difference in difficulty to hit your target, so it’s definitely important

[charred ocean]

I think lights are the reason ttk matters sm tho

[umbral stone]

He was saying the opposite, that ttk doesn’t matter because of lights movement. Ttk matters on all classes and makes a huge difference. Again, it’s not the only thing that matters, but it absolutely matters.

Try using the shak vs the Lewis gun in close range, the shak is gonna feel a lot more powerful. The Lewis is gonna feel much better at range, that’s mainly because of their ttk

[sudden pewter]

It’s a starting point for balance absolutely. In a perfect world TTK would be balanced with ease of use or forgiveness of a weapon. Something like the Mediums Repeater has amazing TTK’s but are difficult to use since it requires precision headshots and if you miss you die

[umbral stone]

Exactly. High risk high reward

[sudden pewter]

Mind it’s not a rule because there’s other ways to balance weapons. DB isn’t exactly difficult to use and has big burst but it has a very short effective range

[faint steppe]

Yeah, I can give you that it's not completely pointless but it's still far less impactful than most people here would let you assume. But I stand by my opinion that "on paper ttk" is pretty much a pointless metric.

There are so many different factors like range, healing, movement and especially regen that influence your engagements. It's why the Shak isn't used much but something like the ARN is.

[sudden pewter]

And KNOWING what weapons your opponent is using is another factor in fighting them. I’m not going to fight a DB user indoors because he’ll break my legs. I’m going to pepper him at range since that’s where I have advantage.

There will always be counter picks(for better or worse)

Melee Users when the flamethrower heavy walks in: 😱

But that doesn’t mean flamethrower with its niche should be nerfed or reworked or whatever

[umbral stone]

I agree that many people overstate the importance of ttk and on paper isn’t an accurate way to analyze how things will play out in game. I do still think it’s very important tho, even in the finals. Also the shak 50 is a very competitive weapon I see it used all the time

[sudden pewter]

I will die standing before I put down my beloved Shak 50.

[winter jay]

Shak gang 😤💪

[sudden pewter]

Shakqueel deserves the new animations, he’s been good and I will treat him.

[winter jay]

I got that holtow receipt skin so I can’t use any animations 😔

[sudden pewter]

Any Eclipse Shade skin available is what I’m using on any given weapon. They’re too good 😌

[winter jay]

Tacticool is a pretty good archetype

[charred ocean]

Im ngl i dont feel this risk reward stuff when i play, which may also be big skill issue. But eith certain guns like grenade launchers or the db theres a no risk high reward because they seem so skillless

[umbral stone]

I do think db can be really annoying, but you do actually have to be pretty on point with your aim

[carmine cipher]

the fact that final round almost always chooses a map variant that prioritizes sitting at range and lets you spot enemies across the map makes it so annoying to play anything that isnt a DMR / rifle in it

playing against pike in general has been a point of annoyance for me regardless of what weapon im on

[hoary coral]

What we feelin about the shotguns in this game?

[sudden pewter]

I think the Cerberus nerf went a bit too far imo. I’ve tried using it myself and while I expected it to perform worse(it was nerfed) I didn’t expect it to perform so poorly at ranges I’d expect a shotgun to still be okay at

Naturally point-blank it still kills. It’s a shotgun, but even the DB has a bit of range to it if aimed properly.

I’d also like to see the model buffed, I don’t want to see another model meta but I feel it isn’t in a good spot at the moment

[muted condor]

The falloff range for shot guns in this game is atrocious

[sudden pewter]

Well IRL after around 30ft bullets disappear as we all know, so it’s nice they’re at least keeping this VR Arcade Gameshow somewhat realistic

Mater is still good

DB is also still very solid

[hoary coral]

Ive had to many people in game telling me that I should go of the shotgun and change to another gun (my teammates says this)
I just wanted to see what people here were thinking about it

[muted condor]

Play what gun you find fun an throw goo on anyone that’s mad about it

[sudden pewter]

I think it definitely depends on the map, Cerberus is still useable, just not as strong as it used to be. Again I feel the model is underperforming at ranges it should be good at but I could also just be bad or not playing corners

Unless it’s ranked where you have a moral and ethical obligation not to throw and play at your best, use whatever you like

[muted condor]

The model is just inconsistent at any range right now tbh

Iv hit shots at point blank range and the game decides to just not deal damage then I die

[sudden pewter]

I’m feeling like even in CQC I’m losing fights to AR’s. I wanna think I’m landing the majority of my pellets but after looking back at recorded games I’m leaning more towards hitreg and phantom bullets

[muted condor]

I think the hit detection is also part of why all the full auto weapons feel way more consistent to play than the other stuff

If you have three bullets from a M60 not register it’s not really a problem but if you have a spear hit not register it kills you

[sudden pewter]

I’m not going to pretend I know the first thing about server architecture but I’ve noticed poorer performance since the start of this season and I can definitely assume it’s negatively affecting weapons

[muted condor]

Definitely

I mainly notice it with my ability to kill heavies right now even when they don’t have anything healing them

It feels like I’m consistently needing to land extra hit or two with most weapons

[sudden pewter]

On the topic of healing for Heavy: We are truly Embarks chosen people 🙏

My biggest gripe with Heavy was how long it took us to reset from an engagement without support

Which from a balance perspective I understand, we have the largest Healthpool and demand the most attention. This is counterbalanced by the size of our model, our move speed, and how long we take to heal.

But now, with the power of my beloved Orb of Healing, I can shrug off chip-damage and focus on priority threats!

I personally find the Healing emitter to be balanced, as the healing is slow and will generally take just an extra bullet or two from an AR to confirm a kill.

[hoary coral]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-thumbs-up-cat-thumbs-up-meme-stock-image-gif-27117830

[muted condor]

I was worried at first even as a heavy player it would be to strong but it’s actually pretty good

[hoary coral]

Im so mad right now

[muted condor]

Laugh at this user

[sudden pewter]

The H+ on the other hand…

[hoary coral]

[muted condor]

[muted condor]

I love watching the heavy I just got down to 1 hit go all the way to 3/4 while I reload

[left lantern]

Yeeeeep. It wouldn't be a finals update without light players getting their equal attetion cake lol.

[sleek jetty]

the h+ infuser is soo op.I think light shouldnt get a healing gadget and it should get some other type of gadet( as a light main)

[hexed matrix]

was wondering when did the model 1887 get released on the finals?

or was it always in the game

[sudden pewter]

I love giving Light players support options since their playstyle can be very selfish, but I think the H+ is definitely overtuned

[timber sparrow]

been in the game since forever

their was even a model meta from season 2 to 4

[sudden pewter]

Hot take: I believe the KS-23 should be perfectly accurate regardless of movestate
A little deviation is acceptable in hipfire but if I’m ADS it should be 100% accurate. It’s already punishing enough that it has only 6 shots and a very slow RoF/Reload(they got rid of the animation cancel)

But for whatever reason the slug you fire isn’t perfectly accurate and it’s a projectile

I don’t see why something like the Repeater has perfect accuracy in ADS but the KS doesn’t given how similar the weapons are. I understand that with it shooting projectile slugs you don’t need to aim for headshots and that’s a major balancing factor, but if you’re not going to have the leniency of knowing where your slug will go due to deviation I feel that hampers skill expression

[dry stream]

long gateway

[verbal vale]

Only balanced if they limit how many healing items per team. Im constantly seeing triple heavy with 3 heal orbs and it’s 0 fun.

[sudden pewter]

I don’t believe the healing emitter stacks, but I haven’t tested it myself

[unborn valley]

Nerf med GL. That is all.

[marble sparrow]

Im so mad at the riot shiel

[brittle yoke]

it dobnt

triple ball is v funny though constant permanent regen for every one, for free! its for free to for you to have this things!! yay!

[sudden pewter]

Perfectly Balanced Sphere of Health

[brittle yoke]

all it needs is to not get cooldown back while theres a ball out its that shrimple imo

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, definitely my favorite gadget this season

Reinforces Heavies defensive playstyle while also offering a support option for the team 10/10

[bitter ember]

I genuinely think that embark regrets putting melee weapons in their game

[sudden pewter]

Melee weapons in an FPS are a very interesting choice, I think the issues presented in balancing them are unique and not simple to rectify

Rather than just nerf damage I’d rather see changes to animations, active frames, etc. done instead

(Mind this takes significantly more time and work than just adjusting values)

[timber sparrow]

buff the sword, hammer, spear, and dual blades pls embark

[sudden pewter]

The obvious answer is giving the Heavy boxing gloves and removing all the problematic melee weapons

[timber sparrow]

I dont think any problematic melees are left embark shot and killed them all

[sudden pewter]

Spear + Riot Shield remain standing strong, survivors of the long war

[timber sparrow]

"strong"

[sudden pewter]

Strength in mediocrity 💪

[lucid marsh]

why did they add a healing orb to heavy? the spam with mesh and bubble shield is absolutely insane to play against

[sudden pewter]

The healing is very slow, in both cases closing the distance or a glitch grenade will serve you well

I’m quite interested in seeing if the pyro grenade sees more use outside of low elo ranked to counter the Health Orb

[fiery bear]

so i've heard of a heavy loadout of slam, shak, dome, rpg, and c4, would it be good to grind for?

[uncut timber]

I’ve been a sledgehammer main since s1 and still am, the amount of stuff you can do with it is bonkers

[knotty garnet]

oof

[sudden pewter]

Not a bad start!

• Shak is definitely a staple primary.
• RPG is a fantastic opening move for burst damage or making a new door!
• Dome is probably Heavies strongest defensive utility for both himself and his team.
• C4 is amazing at holding the cashout station, destroying cocky lights that chase you, and making skylights.

[autumn atlas]

Wait people actually use the Shak? I thought it was a meme weapon like the Constitution on HD2. The mag size is so small, and the damage so weak. I might be missing something, but every time i take it out in the Range i can barely kill the heavy at 30m in a single mag. I can kill him 2-3 times over with the M60 though no problem. hell i can afford to whiff some shots too

[muted condor]

It’s probably the most used heavy weapon because it requires basically no skill and can’t miss headshots at medium range

[normal ice]

it has higher DPS and reloads faster. Mag size isn't everything

[austere heart]

RN whats the meta with MED? I kinda just run whats good for me, is anything absurdly OP?

[normal ice]

Revolver, Pike, Repeater, or any full auto AR
Demat or Heal Beam
Jump Pad and/or Zipline
Defib
Whatever other gadgets tickle your Pickle Ricks

[sudden pewter]

the Shak is very versatile, applicable in many combat scenarios outside of longer ranges where the unique split bullet mechanic makes it nigh impossible to hit headshots.

It can act as a pseudo shotgun at close range since it fires two bullets

[slender bear]

I kind of want to see another deployable gadget/spec on light. Messing with the arena has always been my favorite part of the finals and for now breach charges and gravity vortex are the only sneaky gadgets we have. Some sort of beacon spec would be cool, but I'm not sure what it could do.
Orbital lasers?
Team recall?
Maybe an extra large sonar grenade?

[boreal laurel]

ShAK damage is most definitely NOT weak. It has very high damage per shot and an insanely quick TTK, which of course is balanced out by a small mag size and higher kick than the LMGs. Kind of like comparing Cerberus to AK—pick AK/LMGs if you want more flexibility, ShAK/Cerberus for pure burst damage

[brave narwhal]

I approach the shak exactly like a fatter fcar, even the recoil patterns are similar just stronger.

[hoary patio]

Anyone know when the h infuser and healing emitter getting a nerf?

[normal ice]

regrettably, it could take half the season

[muted condor]

The emitter already got patched so it can’t heal through barricades so it’s in a pretty good spot right now

[normal ice]

I wouldn't complain about it if it just depleted its own HP with healing so it wasn't infinite

infinite source of healing that requires no DPS downtime is really awkward for the game

[sudden pewter]

The Emitter doesn’t need a nerf, perfectly balanced as all spheres should be

I will not tolerate any Orb slander

[normal ice]

the patriarchy strikes again

[sudden pewter]

This is a spherical household

[muted condor]

The only thing I could see being reasonable is making it not recharge while active

[sudden pewter]

If that’s going to be the case I’d like to be able to manually deactivate it

Maybe we pull out the IPAD and send it to the shadowrealm idk

[muted condor]

Yeah, same thing as the turret

[sudden pewter]

💯

I think it’s fine that it remains active without a timer(similar to the barricade)

But its utility means it should have a limiter of some sort, it’s great that we can pick it up and move it as needed, but if we’re going to be able to manually reposition it then it needs to either not charge while active or be a static prop that can recharge while active

It’s definitely an outlier and while it’s incredibly useful(specifically for heavy to lessen the reset between fights) I don’t think it’s so OP or overtuned in its current state that it needs changes

But it’s also way too early to really tell, the dust is still in the air and I’m excited to see if the Diamond/Ruby players can think of any weird ways to abuse it.

By that same metric I feel it’s definitely going to be more for the casuals since in higher ELO Heavies gadgets are incredibly impactful and I personally don’t know if a small HoT/Regen is going to be worth trading a dome/lockbolt/c4 etc.

[normal ice]

You can maneuver around a barricade or shoot whenever they peak over it. That's not an apt comparison. The Healing Emitter provides literally unprecedented sustaining power considering it's infinite.

All the healing you do is more opportunity to trade damage with the enemy, which essentially means you have more total damage output in your team. Imagine if we had an orb that dealt 1 damage to every enemy every second you stay near it. It's not quite a 1-to-1 comparison, but it plays roughly same.

The only counterplay is to either rush the enemy down or have equal healing yourself. The ball becomes completely meta in poking/long-range fights

[sudden pewter]

I didn’t mean to compare the power of orb to barricade, more so how the recharge being similar to prop state

And I 100% agree that the Orb is literally king for negating chip damage. It’s why I love it so dearly

That being said, I think the healing isn’t OP when in an actual engagement.
I do not have solid numbers or data to back this up, but from what I’ve gathered by fighting other heavies using it I’m at most needing to land 1-3ish rounds to secure kills

The H+ definitely needs to be tuned down as it’s really overtuned, but I don’t want my new toy being slashed due to the general fear of Heavy healing! ❤️‍🩹

[normal ice]

If the orb's healing was limited either by time or by total healing output before expiring, then it would remain mildly though not overpoweredly relevant in typical engagements and primarily be nerfed in long-range poking games where it's currently a borderline must-have

[sudden pewter]

I agree with that, I think a cap on its healing would be warranted before placing a new one

That said, it would have to be a relatively generous cap given it’s the only healing item in the game outside of blueberries that’s autonomous

H+ and Medibeam need to consciously be selected and a target chosen, whereas the Orb will attach and heal anyone nearby.

Let’s say I (Heavy Weapon Chad) put down my Orb to hold a corner or a LoS on OBJ
Light/Medium/Heavy comes in and snarfs my heal. That could be frustrating

Healing is Health, and more Health on your team is good regardless of who it goes to, but I could definitely see someone having a strategy in mind for the health they’re using a gadget slot for only to lose it due to poor communication or a selfish teammate

(This is a very long winded wall of text which boils down to me wanting the cap to be fairly large due to Heavy having the largest health pool and needing to eat the lions share of the charge)

I crave discussion, Embark; I beseech thee

On that topic: Alfa-ACTA healing Emitter pweez 👉 👈

[normal ice]

I wouldn't mind like 440 healing before expiring as a starting point. Healing Beam is 220 before overheating

[split wedge]

Is grenade launcher balanced

[versed monolith]

I used it today and won 5 wt games in a row

Tournaments *

[sudden pewter]

Yes:

• Slow(er) TTK compared to Mediums other options
• Slow RoF
• Slow Reload
• Self Damage
  It's unchanged since last season, the reason theres so much outcry as of late (mainly from lights) is because more players are using it since the cerberus was nerfed. And the CL40 is particularly good at killing lights.

[muted condor]

A bit underpowered tbh

It can do good in lower lobbies but there are so many ways to counter it

[sudden pewter]

Any form of highground essentially negates the CL40

[haughty schooner]

Every cl40 i encounter is always above me

[thick pond]

any tips for dual blades with healing/turret?

[void edge]

Good luck

[thick pond]

wdym good luck

[void edge]

Its a really challenging playstyle and i wish you the best

[thick pond]

you got any good gadgets for said build?

cuz i run aps, gas/launch defib

[void edge]

Goo grenade is good for cover

[thick pond]

okay any other gadget?

[void edge]

I used to main riot shield for a bit and loved flashbang

[thick pond]

riot shield is based

[void edge]

Maybe check if you really need the defib

More movement imo is better

[thick pond]

i use defib quite a lot soo yeah

cuz the teams i play with(soloqing) die instantly

[void edge]

I still never ran defib or heal beam with riot shield because you can very easily put yourself into bad situations where your team will not help

Demat for quick escapes is so valuable

[summer wedge]

hello repeater or revolver ?

[thick pond]

i cant use demat lmao, shit does not work for me

[summer wedge]

for medium

[thick pond]

fcar

[void edge]

Think about it like playing a light

You dip in, whack and dip out

[thick pond]

doing damage and running away while helping teamates

thats why i neither use defib or healing beam

[void edge]

Anyway, i gave up on riot shield and moved to sledge which was so cool

[thick pond]

have you tried spear with goo?

[void edge]

And this season i moved to flame thrower goo gun

[void edge]

The sledge utility is so useful

[thick pond]

true

[void edge]

Which is so fun and satisfying

[thick pond]

oh yeah i tried using the pike, shit is good with irons but they need to add like 1x or whatever

[terse gorge]

u looking for good loadouts?

[pure pine]

Demat has the most insane depth to it. Excellent tool

[terse gorge]

Demat S+

[terse gorge]

@ancient isle I can try to explain if u want

[ancient isle]

what, that they would have to wait so long to play against other rubies because they are not enough. Cool, then make skillbased matchmaking or ban them from world tour if they cant handle that

[terse gorge]

U cant ban players for being good

[ancient isle]

You can block some of tha gamemodes to keep them casual

[terse gorge]

U could also remove the banners and u would have no idea that they were ruby

[ancient isle]

you literally have list of all past seasons

[terse gorge]

On their banners? Yeah, pretty much. I see your point as a casual in wt, but they are allowed to play the game, and the thing in wt is that the only matchmaking is through wt rank

[terse gorge]

also playing wt in the first two weeks is stupid, because all ranked sweats are playing wt

[ancient isle]

you can go to https://the-finals-leaderboard.com and check all past ranks in most cases.
Exactly, limiting it to world tour rank is extremely stupid. They should add skillbased matchmaking but if they cant handle that in their incompetence they should simply block ruby players from playing world tour as a short term solution.

So basically there is no right time to play world tour. Playing first weeks is stupid because all sweats are there, playing at end of season is bad because all sweats got their rangs already so they are grinding world tour, and playing mid season is bad because sweats came to have break from beggining of season grind.

[terse gorge]

Just stop playing I guess lmao

also are u solo queuing?

[ancient isle]

i will if they wont fix it. Im tired of playing 7th season against rubies when i have in my premade friend that have peak rank silver and finals is only fps game that she plays

[terse gorge]

how often does it happen

[ancient isle]

around 50% of games

[terse gorge]

Just interested, I‘m double plat, one times diamond and I get those lobbies too, but not that often

[ancient isle]

this season? Every game for now

to have AT LEAST 1 ruby player in my lobby

[thick pond]

yeah,

[terse gorge]

I have a full server of people that only play powershift and are a bunch of total monkeys. Best way to calm down lmao

[terse gorge]

What class?

[thick pond]

medium

[terse gorge]

Demat, jumppad or zipline, defib depending on the mode, goo nade ot frag, gun depends

[thick pond]

you got loadout that doesnt use demat?

[terse gorge]

U have premade teammates

[thick pond]

demat doesnt work well for me hence why i asked

high latency+ping and to spice it up medium-high imput delay

[terse gorge]

Where do u live? Mars?

[thick pond]

no

[terse gorge]

Not asking fir moon because I‘m pretty sure they have better wifi up there then u lmao

[thick pond]

poland with shitty ass internet provider and pc

[terse gorge]

I have a guy who has a pc so bad that the game is fully pixelated to get 40fps

[thick pond]

lowest settings?

yeah i played on them hardly gotten stable 40 fps

[terse gorge]

Thats how his game looks😂

[thick pond]

now im playing with good res soo i can see at cost of having >30 fps

[thick pond]

i have worse lmao

[terse gorge]

I imagine u playing on the potatoe thing that powered doom lmao

[thick pond]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/970463257854898196/1359405259990106112/image.png?ex=6856484e&is=6854f6ce&hm=51dc03766006f50f67fed6837954e7c4f23592f05f0282bc97665e10e55d771c& just to have stable fps

[terse gorge]

nah brotha, buy a pc

[thick pond]

we got debuff here, x2 pc spec price

[terse gorge]

My eyes are getting worse just from looking and I‘m already wearing glasses

[thick pond]

i just gotta buy gpu cpu and psu

yeah thats how i played, somehow i was actually good

wanna list of my specs?

[terse gorge]

No, dont wanna know lmao

[hard pewter]

To the one who told me you can shoot in the feet of dual blade player. GFY. It's not possible at all

[stiff vine]

you cant shoot the feet of dual blade users but you can shoot the arms of a riot shielder

[timber sparrow]

Lizard ooooo lizard ooooo

[shut echo]

Medium should get a glitch grenade

[timber sparrow]

No

[untold sleet]

Is this channel for recommending gadgets?

I have the best medium gadget idea. So if you ever played just cause 3 or 4 you’ll know they have these jet engines that you can place on things. So imagine medium had that and you could place it on the cashout and they boost it randomly for a few seconds. That would change the gameplay of the game a lot I think

Like demat already makes the gameplay far more vertical and makes you play under and above box, but this would make that more horizontal as well

[tulip grove]

Breach Drill is honestly growing into becoming one of my favourite gadgets.

Being a placeable, it lacks versatility of some other gadgets, but what it can do is really fun when you have the foresight. The cooldown is very rapid, too.

[placid slate]

It's not as fast but you can push the cadhout around with the goo gun if you're looking for something similar in the game right now, just shoot the goo somewhat near the cashout and it'll move

[terse gorge]

You fell for that? Bruh

[tulip grove]

I mean, Medium already has superior cashout manipulation besides heavies dedicated to becoming full-time architects.

If the jets would function more like a longer lasting red canister with the power to push heavier objects and a longer delay before explosion, I can sort of see it be a thing.

[terse gorge]

These jet engines sound like a bad whinch

winch claw is best cashout manipulation

[tulip grove]

Yeah well Winch is a specialisation. They tend to have the most impact in gameplay.

But I think the jets may end up being used more as a Thermal Bore sidegrade

[terse gorge]

Sounds fun catching a flying cashout that jumps away before you can steal it lmao

[tulip grove]

I mean yeah, it'd be very annoying to give even more (and easier) ways to send a cashout off the map or in the middle of an open area littered with high ground

[oblique crypt]

What if you could strap one to a barrel for the old nuke

Or a teammate to send them flying for a couple seconds or the next time they jump

[ebon crescent]

goo is op

[novel glen]

NERF- Double barrel, cl-40, and flamethrower. BUFF- all the damn melees back to equal playing field.

[radiant orbit]

lol flamethrower

[inner pivot]

Is there any real way to get around the reflecting thing that the blades do? As a sniper main they're really annoying

[arctic compass]

Everytime i see “nerf” and “flamethrower” in the sane sentence a part of me withers away

[arctic compass]

Have a nade in your pocket or dont shoot them

[stiff vine]

if you're a sniper main then you can grapple or dash behind them

they also take more damage if you hit their block when they're not aiming it at you than when they are

[thick pond]

slegde needs buff, every melee is already broken fym

well not broken but very good in good hands

[timber sparrow]

Almost every melee rn is useless

[lofty venture]

Embark,

Something needs to be done about the CL-40 Grenade Launcher. The number of players leaving lobbies—both friends and foes, including those with good K/D ratios—along with server issues and even instances of players getting physical at LAN parties, indicates that something has gone seriously wrong with this weapon.

While the damage inflicted on enemy targets by the CL-40 Grenade Launcher is effective, its self-damage mechanism needs to be significantly increased to discourage reckless use in close-quarters combat (CQC). Even non-gamer viewers find it somewhat absurd that the grenade launcher does not inflict enough self-harm on the user in confined spaces, which should clearly highlight the issue.

The CL-40 Grenade Launcher serves a purpose in area denial, and its current damage does well in affecting multiple opponents. However, the self-damage must be substantially increased to prevent it from overshadowing many of the non-meta, high-skill ceiling weapons in CQC range.

[unborn valley]

Nerf med GL. That is all.

[stiff vine]

imo a good way to balanced CL-40 might be to make only direct hits deal 100 damage and if you hit close it deals 90-80

[pure pine]

Currently really strong. Wouldn’t call it OP but def needs nerf.

[lofty venture]

That doesn't address the issue that its being used in CQC range and actually starts making it fail at its intended job, area of denial.

[winter wigeon]

bro

[pure pine]

Perhaps a pump animation n between shots?

[lofty venture]

Self-damage needs to go way up just like the RPG

Its like 1.2, it should be 2 or even 2.5x self damage

[pure pine]

Yeah, that would be ideal

[supple cove]

i was thinking why people was talking crazy on cl40 until i realise its the grenade launcher

[lofty venture]

The entire purpose of a grenade launcher is to break teams turtling in a corner and healing, so that's why I'm fine with the damage. It just can't be more effective than a shotgun, pistol, or repeater in a 1v1 in a tight space.

[normal ice]

It already has one... It gets interrupted like Model and Repeater do

[normal ice]

No. CL-40's very last change was making it go from x1.6 to x1.25. it was unusable dogshit when at x1.6. And FYI, RPG-7 is literally the only other thing in the game with higher self dmg

[supple cove]

i saw multiple players who just spams space bar and CL-40 under their feet
not very plesant to see and play against

[normal ice]

They can do the same movement with Model except kill you faster and reload faster

[pure pine]

It’s so fast 😭

[lofty venture]

Then your not using it right nor for its intended purpose. Its aburd right now, you should be throwing goo and retreating if they are that close to you, not spam bunny hopping and shooting.

Even top players have pointed out that its extremely toxic and annoying to fight against and god help the poor saps below platinum that have to deal with it.

[normal ice]

CL-40 already has a slower TTK than Pike, Revolver, Repeater, and Model all do. All of those weapons kill every class faster and all reload faster.
Tell me, what is CL-40's "intended purpose" if it kills yourself as close range and sucks at any range beyond 15m?

[lofty venture]

There is no amount of word smithing you can do to justify the use of a grenade launcher in CQC range, period thee end. Even Karens that don't play video games can recognize the absurdity of this.

[normal ice]

It's a video game, bro. And it kills you in close range. Get over the realism aspect unless you want it to one-shot Heavy

[timber sparrow]

I hate this argument so much

Also it kills faster than model rn, rip model meta

[normal ice]

I thought Model shoots faster. Still hitscan at the least

[lofty venture]

The fact that he's including the Revolver and Repeater in this argument is even more hilarious. Both those weapons require an abusdly higher skill level to use and aren't in the meta.

[normal ice]

This is your mistake. Yes, CL-40 has a low skill floor. That doesn't mean it's OP. It's useless in higher skill tiers... It's useless in esports

CL-40 has more opportunities for counterplay than almost every other gun in the game. Try learning them. If you need even more counterplay, look to buffing the underpowered weapons first before nerfing even more shit

[supple cove]

is asking for more self damage on CL-40 so difficult

[stiff vine]

give cl the amount of self damage range as RPG

[lofty venture]

Then remove the CL-40.

It's okay to have weapons that are bad at lower skill levels, but good at high skill levels, but it is extremely toxic to 75% of the playerbase to have a such a skill-less weapon this strong.

[timber sparrow]

while i personally dont think the cl40 is overpowered, saying that ttk is the only thing that matters is just blatantly incorrect, the weapon can be played by a lobotomite which hinders the casual experience, embark is definitely capable of making weapons strong but not be completely brainless that it makes the game unfun for people

[normal ice]

I mean, it's not the only thing that matters, for sure. It's just that a low skill floor is pretty much the only thing it has. Because it doesn't just have slow TTKs. It's also a projectile with self-damage and completely deleted by APS

But sure, I can agree to possibly raising its skill floor... After we simply buff other low skill floor weapons first like melee

[supple cove]

whoaaaa melee is low skill floor

[timber sparrow]

i wouldnt say any of the melee are low skill floor but okay

[stiff vine]

high skill floor low skill ceiling

[unborn valley]

Problem is when GL is played in pairs, 2 of them is absolutely oppressive, also it reaches around corners and destroys deployables and light cover

[lofty venture]

The CL-40 damage is in a great spot and it fulfills its role well in Power Shift and Terminal Attack as a support user lobbing grenades to defeat the APS turrets and break up turtling teams on the objective. However, running around like a mindlessly bunny hopping grenade spamming rat in CQC range should not be a viable use of the weapon.

[normal ice]

I mean, currently speaking, they're so weak that indeed it takes a lot of skill to get any value out of them at all. But when I said they have a low skill floor, I meant mostly in terms of aim. Aiming issues is primarily why people get filtered by CL-40

[unborn valley]

Give it an arming distance, reduce mag by 1 and increase reload time. Problem solved

[normal ice]

Do you ever play the game's actual mainstay tournament modes WT or Ranked?

[timber sparrow]

aiming isnt the only skill required in the game, i wouldnt say aim alone determines skill, though it is definitely a factor

[unborn valley]

That's facts, but if you can't kill youre a serious burden

[timber sparrow]

melees are much more positionally demanding than other weapons and especially now have to really think about the engagements they take

[normal ice]

Of course, I agree. But I mention it because MOST people have an issue with CL-40 just because it requires less aim to have an effect with. Same reason people whined about melee until it died

So if they're going to whine about not being able to out-TTK CL-40 because they have bad aim, then there need to be other low-aim weapons that are usable -- like melee. Or Model

[lofty venture]

Yes, I usually see losing teams try to roll the CL-40 crutch strat towards the end.

Its like a hail mary of crutchers.

[normal ice]

I have only ever seen the exact opposite. Emerald 1 since Season 4 btw

[stiff vine]

remember that the CL-40 is just an accurate KS-23 with splash damage

[normal ice]

not even remotely an apt comparison at all

[stiff vine]

same ttk

[timber sparrow]

I think the problem with melee and low skill players is it requires better aim than your average 3 game a week tdm player especially against dagger and sword, but even so someone with low skill on a melee even on something like pre nerf sword would play terribly and basically be a free kill

[unborn valley]

CL40 is a slop gun that destroys light cover and has aoe damage. It's garbage to play against

[lofty venture]

This makes me even more angry about the Cl-40 cheese...my KS-23, my belovid.

[normal ice]

KS-23 is a Heavy weapon with a higher proj speed and breaks walls.

[unborn valley]

Heavy has so many way better primaries you rarely see it though

[normal ice]

why can people not stop comparing a medium weapon to heavy weapons or gadgets. Heavy don't have a damn defib

anyway gtg hf

[stiff vine]

but it has bloom all the time making it always inaccurate

[timber sparrow]

i think embarks real issue and why people get defensive over clear issues that effect casual play is embarks balance direction tends to be complete balance murder than actual adjustment

[stiff vine]

you only get 1 weapon so why choose one that can and will miss

[timber sparrow]

They wont buff ks23 because they fear qm potential on it

[stiff vine]

at least give it the accuracy it deserves

[supple cove]

add the ability to have all teams vote one weapon out before rank starts

that should help with the difference of weapon usage and effectiveness between ranked and casual

[timber sparrow]

They wont because they dont want heavy having an effective range option as well

[supple cove]

i remember something similar was implemented in multiple online ranking games

[stiff vine]

remember that CL-40 is a better goo breaker than KS-23

[timber sparrow]

Its arguably the most difficult weapon to balance

[stiff vine]

even if you overlook that i didnt hit the holding goo, it still takes 1 more shot to break

[unborn valley]

Yeah Bru it smashes goo, barricades, roof tiles, deployables, natural light cover, explodes on impact, damages around corners, can be fired on the run, it is utterly diabolical

[supple cove]

do it all weapon

[unborn valley]

If they gave it an arming distance and made it more like a thumper weapon with a single chamber, it would be a lot better

[smoky jackal]

theres a reason 99% of games make grenade launchers an underbarrel attachment or a timed thing

[ember lintel]

How do you kill them when they got riot shield and team isn't trying to flank them? Just disengage and circle back and hope he's tryna club someone else and just shoot his back!? 😂

[still summit]

Whoopie cushion skin for the gas mine. Need I say more

[graceful nova]

APS turret was epic. There he was, CL-40 in hand. He got two nades into my feet, but then my APS blocked everything. I took zero damage and beamed him into a coin pile. The enemy team straight up stopped using the CL-40 afterward.

[unborn valley]

Great story, but did your aps move with you while you assaulted a cashout

[graceful nova]

It was TDM, I plopped it on the ground when I saw the CL-40

Think fast

[untold sleet]

Yeah ik but the jet would so cool

[graceful nova]

What makes the APS turret great is not only can it be stuck onto a prop, it still works perfectly fine when the enemy shoots up the prop and drop the turret on the ground.

Guardian turret on a prop usually flops to the side and practically stops working

[shell sonnet]

what if grenades could pass through dome?
it would allow people to flush their enemies out of them, making dome a choice you have to think about a little bit more, while making the elemental grenades a slightly more attractive choice

[graceful nova]

I use APS turret to “reinforce” walls by deleting all breaching projectiles. Only charge and slam, and breaching primaries (KS-23 and sledgehammer) can break through

[terse gorge]

Droideka function. Grenade has to be slow enough to pass through

[shell sonnet]

oh right, that would be an example
could potentially be a feature m1 throw doesnt pass, underhand does (tho that could make it more/potentially too complex)

[terse gorge]

nah, that would be so cool

U know that clone wars episode where they are on onderon?

[shell sonnet]

no, i dont know thaaaat much about star wars

[terse gorge]

Never talk to me again

[shell sonnet]

[terse gorge]

[muted halo]

more reasons to buff KS-23

[dim carbon]

I just want settings to change the noise and distortion of explosions specifically because damn there are a lot of explosions

[timber sparrow]

was referring to the KS23 but ye cl40 too ig

[fathom cove]

REAL

mgl and ks need buff

[timber sparrow]

You know what else needs a buff…