💣┇weapons-gadgets

[lusty raven]

honestly... if you remade the RPG into a weapon... it wouldnt hurt to give it a bonus while hitting something with the rocket... so like 100 splash damage and 50 or so impact damage by the rocket

so you couldnt instakill 3 Lights with one rocket but if you somehow manage to actually hit them directly....

[unkempt moss]

You’re going to set off the light players. They’re already touchy because of the sword right now

[lusty raven]

i mean it used to be like this before (at least what I remember from beta) but with an extra main weapon to potentially kill those you couldnt instakill with RPG

[slow linden]

You're either a light main or a pike or AKM medium,just because you use boring weapons doesn't mean all the fun goofy shit can't get a buff now and then

[cyan steeple]

Wow ur wrong asf

[slow linden]

I'd love if rpg was a primary,with it's reload time and damage and breaching utility it'd honestly be balanced,they might need to slightly reduce its blast radius though if they do that?

[slow linden]

What do you use

[lusty raven]

agreed.... I think its better than the RPG being a gadget in its current state

[unkempt moss]

Truthfully, the goofy shit should be buff. I can go shoot an AK or MP5 in any of these copy paste shooters.

[unkempt moss]

The light players blame everything and everyone but themselves.

The weapon would be fine as is for a primary. Just give me rocket jumping and less self damage and it’s perfect.

[slow linden]

Agreed if I want to be a boring smg or AR sweat I'll just play call of duty(which is a dogshit baby game that takes no effort to play that way by the way)

[royal pier]

It's so weird that they insist on giving Heavy mostly gimmick weapons that require learning how to play around their quirks, yet they give Medium a mildly different Pike and Light a worse MP5.

[lusty raven]

I mean... rocket jumping would be even more glorious

tho I dont think its wise to do that with something that deals 100 splash damage

[lusty raven]

Medium could defo benefit from another gimmick weapon, thats for sure... rn the Medium seems the most boring out of the bunch imho

[unkempt moss]

Also, let me point that flamethrower at the ground to give me some upward thrust.

[slow linden]

Light mains don't want funny things like grenade launchers or bee guns they want more ars and smgs,tbh the only smgs I want are the thomson,the PPSH and the MP40

[royal pier]

Obviously I prefer the quirky stuff more, but it's lame that the easy to use stuff is also on the higher/highest end of DPS.

[lusty raven]

eh... isnt that kinda similar to what they already have?

[royal pier]

https://tenor.com/view/cage-nicolas-not-the-bees-gif-14420748

[slow linden]

I really wish we would get an M1garand for heavy

[lusty raven]

Whats so broken about Heavy? To me it struggles with virtually any weapon it has rn

[slow linden]

Real

[lusty raven]

how about PTRS? 🤔

[slow linden]

Send image

[lusty raven]

figures...

[royal pier]

I don't mind if easy weapons like the ARs and SMGs exist, but don't also make them have high end DPS as well.

[lusty raven]

I cant... and cant even send links 😦

[unkempt moss]

Heavy went through a stage where it was being nerfed for survivability and stuff because medium was strong. The light players are some of the dumbest players I’ve ever seen in any video game. As soon as they dive head first in to a 1v3 they come in and here and cry until they get the XP in its current state or how the LH1 was for a long time.

[lusty raven]

but you can google PTRS-41... soviet WW2 anti-tank rifle

[slow linden]

I don't mind them I am just saying there's enough of them for now

[slow linden]

Just dm me it

[royal pier]

Honestly we don't need any new ARs/SMGs/LMGs/DMRs ever.

They'll either be slightly better or slightly worse than the available options.

[unkempt moss]

That’s why the Minigun will be nerfed quickly. They stand in front of it and wonder why they die immediately.

[slow linden]

Lights when they die because of their horrible positioning or they got kill greedy and got ground to paste all of a sudden the thing that kills them gets nerfed

The shit that's good at killing lights that gets nerfed wasn't even that good against the other classes and the weapon is just unusable dogshit now because lights can't stop crying

[lusty raven]

but I gotta admit... I was not expecting Embark to listen to feedback... Ive played throughout the beta and once that was done, sent a quick Feedback where I suggested few weapons that should be added to increase variety... and they actually added 2 of them 🥰

[slow linden]

I'd agree but I want an m1garand and an m249 saw and that's it

[drowsy trout]

I use akm but only cause of the holtow skin, its funny getting a kill and seeing rosaparks show up on a receipt

[serene glade]

Well actually I'm a light player and I don't play with my teammates because they just can't match my dps. They are just dead weight. When I drop 14 kills with my XP and lose the match it's because if my fat fucking loser heavy teammates. Like brother just play medium and heal beam and defib me 😂

[unkempt moss]

I think he’s larping

[lusty raven]

I mean that depends on what are you playing... if TDM, then sure... but in tournament you need more than just dishing out the pain

[slow linden]

The akms not an entirely boring weapon,there's fun builds for it but it just feels way too safe for me to be using all the time

[serene glade]

I'm super serious. People witerawy just don't understand the pain and suffering a light main has to go through

[drowsy trout]

Real asf i ride or die by the revolver

[lusty raven]

thats because of the unending magazine... you can miss 60% of shots and you still get the kill 🙃

[slow linden]

Average shitter lights (i usually team kill these lights with pyromines and goo if we're losing because of them)

[slow linden]

Yeah it's a little excessive

Very mindless weapon

[unkempt moss]

Embark keeps nerfing us heavies, we just keep getting smarter and better. Theyll never learn.

[lusty raven]

its simply too safe to play anything else... the SCAR is not really that big of an upgrade... FAMAS is limited to burst and other weapons are quite hard to hit with since the overall speed of ppl is very high

[unkempt moss]

We’re aim and brains, baby.

[serene glade]

I love when the "support class" out DPS's me on heavy. Makes me wish they'd give mercy a famas in overwatch

[royal pier]

Hate to break it to ya, but they would either be the new meta, or never used a month after release because the alternative is better.

I hardly ever see the Lewis Gun now that the M60 got buffed.

[lusty raven]

I seriously dont understand the whole "nerf winch" agenda that people keep slinging around... the winch is the funniest shit that the Heavy gotten since the start of the Finals....

[serene glade]

They should buff the winch to let me spider-man swing off of walls and trees

Wrecking ball tech

[lusty raven]

Like... its is already quite hard... when Light misses his grappling hook, because you dont quite reach, you can INSTANTLY try again... heavy gets 50% cooldown 🙃

and with Light you are hitting a BUILDING not a fast moving person

[slow linden]

I know this,but they'd still be fun off meta picks,and I think the m1garand should actually have a lot of falloff but just be accurate and do a shit ton of damage,also it should do 10 damage to yourself on reload

[lusty raven]

but I digress... Heavy with winch and Sledge is now perfectly playable while bringing lots of utility to the team comp... i pray to gods they dont ruin it :I

they could rework the Sledge so you can actually wind up the heavy attack and actually use it in combat instead of wildly slinging the light one, but hey... still better than nothing

[slow linden]

Is it weird that I'm a heavy main yet I don't really care for winch? I don't hate it per se I just don't use it

[serene glade]

This game would be a lot more bearable if the servers weren't dog ass. Trying to rely on goo locking people to kill them with sledge or spear and just having the shots go straight through them on my end is the best feeling in the world.

[lusty raven]

oh thats the BEST shit ever... you can effortlesly move around the objective ❤️

[oblique crypt]

I'm a sledge heavy main and have used the winch only once.

[lusty raven]

someone is stealing your shit? winch it away from them... someone popped a fire at the objective? winch it away from the fire... etc

[slow linden]

I main goo gun,I am hardly ever not using goo gun

[lusty raven]

i carry goo grenades... is usually enough

[oblique crypt]

Same!

[slow linden]

I use both

[lusty raven]

goo is great

[slow linden]

I am an arson build

[lusty raven]

theres a great weapon that would fit the arson Heavy... the M202 Flash

an incendiary 4-round rocket launcher...

[slow linden]

I fuck with it

[royal pier]

I am enjoying the increased Sledgehammer viability, but the jank on the main swing hit detection is a downer.

[slow linden]

But they need to make the flamethrower actually shoot a stream of napalm and not loosely fart out fire

[lusty raven]

whats with the wind up on heavy attack... was it always like this?

[royal pier]

How so? As far as I know the only changes have been to add and then remove cleave.

[slow linden]

Yes I'm basically asking for a huge range buff and heavily reduced aoe

[lusty raven]

that you cant hold the right button

ive tried many other melee weapons in practice range and everything seems to be working fine (which means you can hold the RMB to keep the heavy attack ready and by letting the RMB go you swing)

[slow linden]

Anything that isn't hitscan is dogshit and even the things that are hitscan are inconsistent messes for this reason

Even melee weapons have terrible hit reg

Grenade launchers will sometimes direct impact for 10 fucking damage that's just my favorite thing

[oblique crypt]

Dagger is infuriating sometimes

[serene glade]

Pushing for Esports on a game with what feels like 5 tick rate servers is so based

[lusty raven]

i personally hate the constant crashing... I remember back in beta you could crash once per 2 games... so you had to reconnect at least once per tournament... nowadays its not so bad but we still crash at least once per evening

[slow linden]

Make it make sense embark

[lusty raven]

especially since you cant reconnect to quickplays

[oblique crypt]

I haven't crashed since I started playing again in season 5.

[lusty raven]

I did like 7 times since we started playing this season

and my friend crashes every day at least once

[royal pier]

Naw you could never hold it.

[lusty raven]

supersad.... is there a reason for it?

[unkempt moss]

This isn’t Tom and Jerry. You don’t get to wait for the light outside of the vent hole and then smack him. Stop trying to have fun.

[royal pier]

It'd be pretty overpowered. Imagine being able to wait around a corner with a held Heavy attack.

[deep mason]

Actually making it so u have to use the flamethrower that u already have at a structure for a long time should have that effect as it's more of a defensive move and u need time commitment and fire a the ground for a long time so it's all balanced

[sand monolith]

He thinks Cerberus is being nerfed next patch

[slow linden]

That'd be cool

Like 5 fuel for every fire pool?

[deep mason]

Possibly

[deep mason]

Like do u know how puny flame thrower is now u have mini gun

It's laughable,no chance to win so atleast make it a defensive weapon

[slow linden]

It's called a flamethrower even though it's basically just a propane burning torch,it's false advertising

[deep mason]

Even increase the range but low damage but increases the closer u r to the flame

[slow linden]

I feel like the damage is fine imo,but instead of more raw damage at range I think at it's farest ranges the burn stacks should last twice as long

While having slight direct damage falloff but being a dps monster up close

[deep mason]

I saw a vid where u can golf barrels with spear but that's probably patched out.

Goo gun
Flamethrower
Spear
All needs a rework or buff

[deep mason]

That's what I said

[deep mason]

Maybe the more u keeping firing the longer the flame get cause time commitment and empty mag

[slow linden]

Yeh

[vital rose]

Hey guys, could use advice. I love Heavy, and I am always going to be using what weapon I want for the most part. But I want to help my team as much as I can, and I'm not sure what utilities are most necessary to make that happen. Is it better to use the dome shield or a goo wall? Are there any heavy-exclusive utilities I should always carry if I can?

[slow linden]

Play heavy like you're playing light,just because you're big and slow and have a lot of health doesn't mean you shouldn't or can't play angles and use movement,that's about all the advice I can give

[slow linden]

As for utilities there's mesh shield and goo gun for specs,c4 and rpg are almost interchangeable for breaching and barricades pair really nicely with goo gun and goo grenades together

Winch has a little bit of utility,you can move the cashout and stop steals but that's about it

[slow linden]

Dome shield is okay but hard cover is honestly way better,dome shield used to be way better

[deep mason]

U like the comment I made on the suggestion just now?

[slow linden]

Yeah

[deep mason]

Bro that's what I meant the more u fire the bigger the flame gets so it's doubled and it's balanced

It's not balanced if it's double from the start

U should change the comment

[slow linden]

Hmmm,1 meter added to the base range?

[deep mason]

The flame get very long but the more u fire or else it's not balanced I like playing all classes and it's a problem with light

[royal pier]

I wish Dome Shield stuck to surfaces to avoid bouncing. Maybe add a tap-to-use option so that it's more reactive and better for helping teammates.

[slow linden]

It'd be cool

[slow linden]

I agree I'm just saying it could use a slight static range increase on top of that,I play all classes too

[sand monolith]

cause somehow people unironically think its fine

[deep mason]

U got any googun tips for me?

[slow linden]

When paired with flamethrower specifically or general use

[deep mason]

Both

[shell sonnet]

goo gun tips you say?

[slow linden]

Flamethrower you're going to want to shoot kinda around them before goo locking them to maximize stacking fire hit boxes

Other offensive use you shoot where they're going to be more than where they are cause the hit reg is kinda bad

Put random goo piles and lines around the room you'll ne defending,let it be known to your teammates that you are to light the whole room on fire should you be pushed,do not light the whole room on fire if your teammates are lights

[slow linden]

Fleeing through buildings with the goo gun is nice it's one of heavys only escape tools,flee through door,close door,bar the door shut with goo,keep doing that for every door you go through If you are being pursued or if the enemy team is behind you and just heading the same way

[gritty swallow]

Is the heavy slug shotgun any good now?

[slow linden]

No,it doesn't crit,it has spread for some reason,ass tons of falloff,and it's a projectile weapon so the hitreg is kinda bad too

[weak kernel]

medium's guns are so funny this season, cerberus is the most belligerent close quarters weapon in the game (with the added benefit of dealing with gas and goo) and the cb-01 is both easy to use and about as oppressive as any other DMR

[slow linden]

Replace shotgun with smg and you'll achieve peak comedy

[deep mason]

@honest garden yea the xp is really bad it makes heavy health go away instantly

[tender python]

Genuine question, are phantom strikes that strong? (Mainly talking about this from the perspective of pre-nerf sword) Yeah you could kill heavies kind of quicker with lunge -> phantom strike + lunge but you could just do the same thing with quick melees In between the lunges, And yeah you could one shot mediums but you would have to be directly on top of them and not have dealt any damage to them for it to be useful and that doesn't happen very often since you usually lunge towards them. Am I missing something?

[slow linden]

It doesn't make health it deletes it

[deep mason]

Lol yea typo

[clever sleet]

so... its the sword back yet? lol

[vernal frost]

tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵

tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵

tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵 tun tun tun tun tun tun sahur🪵

[slow linden]

Gang shit 😎

[unkempt moss]

Goo Gun has the highest skill ceiling in the game. It just takes time on the sticks to get it. But once you get it you will feel gimped playing without it. Use it to make off angle entries, stall with locks, shoot it in front of you to make quick cover if you’re getting beamed from somewhere. Shoot it at long range to stop sniping. There’s a lot of tech and use, so just mess around with it

Basic goo gun tech is bridge, barricade, and lock. Pair it with grenade and you can gooinforce a room in seconds.

Goo cocoon trophies to stop defib by building a small dome around them.

Goo foundation under cash out to stop demats. Goo Childproof mines, turrets and proximities. Goo parry incoming frag grenades.

Goo airbrake people on zip lines and jump pads for easy kills.

[slow linden]

You are goo pilled

[unkempt moss]

Check the name, gamer.

[slow linden]

I know,I see,I acknowledge

[unkempt moss]

Respect to all Goonnoisseurs like yourself.

Never forget the day Embark took GooFO from us.

[slow linden]

):

[deep mason]

😭goo airship got patched,the worst thing Devs could do

[unkempt moss]

I don’t know how the current XP made it through internal testing all the way to a patch.

[slow linden]

Truly a great crime

[icy sparrow]

Do u think goo gun needs an alt like making 3x3 charged shot?

[icy sparrow]

We also need goo airship in casual atleast I understand it should be patched in ranked but let us have fun

[unkempt moss]

I’ve said in the past you should be able to charge up to a certain point with right click to make a straight line quickly. Being able to charge a goo bridge or something while you’re moving would be nice. But im assuming they want you to use grenade like that. It does seem like they could do something creative with the right click though.

[icy sparrow]

Goo grenade and barrel is unpredictable sometimes and just stops after making 3 goo at random

[unkempt moss]

I’d say let it rip in ranked as well. They keep removing fun unique things about the game that weren’t intended, but gave the game character. Like the kick flip with jump pad and demat. They keep sterilizing the game of unique interactions and it’ll make it bland.

But they are more focused on esports because they think that’s what’s necessary to make money and bring in players I guess? Which it might. All I know is where I came from, fighting games, when they go esports it just means they are planning on removing the soul for the game so we can worship some random guy from Europe or Korea who’s really good.

The strength of the finals has always been its unique interactions and gadgets. I couldn’t care less about the pro scene for this game, and I can’t imagine it’s going to be a good spectator game. It’s way more chaotic than Overwatch, thats two teams and near unwatchable.

I don’t know how someone who doesn’t play the game is going to see what’s going on at all. I think they should focus on keeping the game fun for their player base and let word of mouth do the leg work for their money making on skins and whatever.

Im also the type that thinks when you’re balancing a game around the top 500, that they say has 300k unique players a month, is kind of dumb. They supposedly make up .001% of the player base, who gives a shit what they have to say about the game. Balance the game around making it fun and players will come and spend money.

[icy sparrow]

Not gonna happen lol

[unkempt moss]

I know, but that’s my take on it. The esports apologist will swarm to defend it but it will objectively make the game and community worse.

[icy sparrow]

Fix funny spinning stick
Spear alt rework,replace weird spinning with pole vaulting,hammer has destruction where u change the map,make buildings fall but with spear u just spin……?
If u can do vaulting(in an arc motion) and it’s just one easy animation then u can cover vertical distance and jump rooftops and have a thrust attack when falling after vaulting and more damage the higher u fall, u can still have only one spin attack if u hold primary attack

[unkempt moss]

The CSGO guns should be there for people transitioning to the game. Something familiar.

Then they work in to the cool stuff from AK and frag grenades.

[icy sparrow]

What about my spear idea

[icy sparrow]

Well?

[vague sorrel]

I WANT A PROPULSION GRENADE FOR ALL CLASSES

[unkempt moss]

I think it would be fun. Give heavy some extra mobility. Plus being coupled with CNS would go crazy

I’d like for CnS to be replaced with a hulk jump though. Keep the slam damage, let the big guys get some vertical.

[subtle jackal]

revert sword, its not fun anymore, it was fun because I was playing something other than a gun in a fps game. I felt like grey fox (ninja) and now I feel like a child throwing a tantrum with a stick barely able to do a 1v1.

[rich flame]

i really want the m60 to have 100 round boxes

[sacred flower]

You should get the stick skin:D

[subtle jackal]

I've got all the skins from the store and i'm lvl 10 with it

[plain thistle]

use dagger

[sacred flower]

While wearing a clown skin!

[subtle jackal]

its not as fun! and I'm lvl 9 for that also

[slow linden]

It was nerfed to shit shortly before sword was

[near scroll]

only melee weapon allowed to exist is sledge

[placid slate]

Based on the dev note on the sword nerf it looks like it won't be existing for much longer

[lusty raven]

I fail too see how is that overpowered... the heavy attack has little to no benefits against people. You can instakill Lights with light attack and melee almost as fast as by hitting them with Heavy attack

[formal plank]

Flashbang go flash

[lusty raven]

if you fight Mediums, it is faster to do 2 light attacks and melee, than heavy and 2 melees or heavy and light

[spice vigil]

i despise you

[gritty swallow]

how do you not flash your teammates?

[spice vigil]

i can almost guarantee they do

[slow linden]

It rng with randoms

[slow linden]

Most certainly they do

[near scroll]

does flashing team mates give flashbang exp? lol

[gritty swallow]

That would explain the level 10 flashbang

[near scroll]

ikr hahahaha

[gritty swallow]

Maybe I should just hotbox the cashout instead of flashing it

[nimble sapphire]

Throwing goo grenade

[near scroll]

GOO GRENADE, OUT! 🗣️🔥

[floral terrace]

Is flash decent to use with sword? Tried it a few times but feels like its better to use vanish or goo

[gritty swallow]

Flash can be good but vanish is realy realy good with Melee weapons ( from my experience)

[floral terrace]

What I cant understand is how Im even gonna use flash with a melee. Like, if throw it in while being covered, I have no idea if the enemy is flashed or not. And if I throw it while being exposed, im gonna flash myself

Like in what situation I would think: 'Yep, thats a job for my flash!' instead of vanishing or waiting for team to distract opponents

[slow linden]

Deploying a Pyro mine

[gritty swallow]

Only Melee i know flash is good with is the riot but still with riot it's hard to use ,for me at least/doesn't a flashbang show a hitmarker?

[near scroll]

flashbangs do give hitmarkers, the same ones as glitch nades

[solid coral]

Could anyone explain what is the minigun juggle tech?

[gritty swallow]

Why was the data reshaper nerfed in season 6? , I have seen 1 person use it so far

[narrow bane]

probably sliding right before a corner and jumping, which readies your minigun for firing as you appear in the corner

(i have no idea this is what i think it is)

[near scroll]

minigun takes time to spin up, but also to spin down, so you can let go of the spin up button for a short time, enough for a slide or run jump or anything, then press the spin up button again, and you won't have to go through the entire spin up period again, just a portion of it

[gentle flicker]

Revert sword

[kindred wedge]

Unfortunate that this shares a name with the thing that people do with the mesh shield.

[near scroll]

well one is mesh juggle and the other minigun juggle, not so bad imo

[unkempt moss]

Im convinced the devs are playing a different game than us when they do stuff like this. I see data reshaper once a season unless I’m using it.

According to them it’s because it was crushing turret players too often. So the ultra niche pick was making it unplayable for the worst medium spec?

[near scroll]

just make it so you can't reshape turrets, or it consumes all 3 charges

[peak monolith]

If we really need another throwing knives skin, it should be multi bucks. Let me throw currency

[ornate scaffold]

Such a weird thing to spend time on, nerfing that. They should focus on fixing issues instead

[unkempt moss]

That’s not how it works on the finals. Remember the MGL has been near unusable for as long as I can remember. The model was insane for half the life of the game before they toned it down.

They nerfed the sword but for the wrong reasons and in the wrong way. They were punishing heavy players for medium gadget/specs for months, until they found a way to meaningfully balance mesh. The XP is insane right now, and they’re the only ones that didnt see it coming. I’ve heard it’s a single guy doing the balancing and that would make a lot of sense.

[misty venture]

Flashy Washy ✍️ ✍️ ✍️ ✍️ 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥

[unkempt moss]

They’re focused on esports and the game isn’t even close to ready to be shown on that level. I remember the week they announced they were starting esports I had a match where my random couldn’t left click, my friend couldn’t turn left and right, and I had a hard crash within the same minute.

Half of the weapons in the game are unusable, the S Tier weapons are beaming people from a mile out with zero recoil or just annihilating people before they can even see what’s going on. I feel like this is the worst the game has ever felt to play, but I can’t put my finger on a single one reason why. It’s just the sum of them all.

[oblique crypt]

I've never encountered any of these problems 😐

[unkempt moss]

I get a crash on a rare occasion, but not consistently. My friend however still disconnects or crashes multiple times a night.

During season 2 and 3 I would get the disconnect every match or every other. Thankfully that was fixed.

I think the main thing for me is that The Finals is the best shooter on the market for me, and it’s not even close. It always feels like it’s right on the cusp of elevating to its potential. I just want to see them succeed so I can keep playing while still being the fun shooter I’ve been playing.

[sacred cypress]

#JUSTICEFORMOOLAH
Buff MOOLAH
bring back the sound back and u will make the finals community happy again

[vital vector]

I hate how the devs of this game listen to the people that want melee to not exist in the game whatsoever

amazing job on the bow although they should make it so you can make your crosshair still exist when your ads with scopes

[fossil gate]

The cl40 melee delay is absolutely broken and needs rework 😭 I love when I melee and try to shoot again but wind up just staring at the enemy for 3 seconds if I don’t get lasered.

I know for a fact I can’t be the only one struggling with bogus ass delay

[restive plover]

It was a bogus ass change that messed with a lot of weapons.

[blissful mountain]

If you remove minigun juggling I swear I'll kill my pet ant Giovanni Battista

[sand monolith]

Embark when one of the multiple minigun downsides can be semi negated with a skill gap vs when mediums main class downside can be thrown out the window with a brainless shotgun

It was completely out of favor in the meta and still gave mid performance

Who could have guessed that high cqc burst damage on medium might be inherently strong

[royal pier]

Ya'll we gotta talk about how Embark very likely stealth buffed Defib i-frames again.

It's long enough now that you can get several shots off before you are vulnerable.

[sand monolith]

Probably on accident

[shell sonnet]

How do you accidentally change i-frames tho

[sand monolith]

Defib iframes were buffed to like 5 seconds long in the preview event and when we brought it up to the team they had no idea why

[shell sonnet]

Like, i kinda get the goo gun changes when cl-40 happened
But this? How?

[sand monolith]

@autumn star why not just buff the gun so it also works with other specs

[unkempt moss]

Incompetence is what it’s called. But, is there any actual data that they screwed it up?

[sand monolith]

Not that it’s currently messed up no

[autumn star]

I agree, I just find that with Winch it's especially bad since you bring your enemy closer to you so they can kill you lol.

[sand monolith]

Winch needs a full rework tbh it’s such a poorly designed hook ability

[royal pier]

They should probably, like, mention that they plan on fixing it then.

Until they do, I'm just going to assume they didn't want to draw attention to another Medium, and indirectly a Light, buff.

Those i-frames benefit Light way more than Heavy.

[rich flame]

Idk I was doing pretty good with the KS-23 and I don't even have winch unlocked yet, I'd still like a buff for it tho

[sand monolith]

I would assume that if it’s actually in game, they don’t know

[royal pier]

Winch with KS-23 is really clunky atm. If you winch even 0.01 seconds before the pump animation finishes, you do the animation twice.

[sand monolith]

Cause they fixed it from preview event

[royal pier]

Idk how you miss the fact that people can attack before they can be attacked.

[sand monolith]

In preview event it was literally like 5-7 seconds long you just had to run

[royal pier]

The i-frames should be basically 0. As soon as you have control, you can be hit.

The first nerf ages ago where all they did is functionally remove i-frames but the revive was instant was the best iteration, imo.

Adding the hologram and shit was unnecessary.

[sand monolith]

Hologram was extremely necessary

Iframes on top of it weren’t

[royal pier]

Worked fine without it +no i-frames.

It was good for getting someone up fast, just not out in the open.

They could add a toggle to deny a defib to eventually teach Medium players to not use Defib as a panic button.

[sand monolith]

It never existed without iframes

They nerfed iframes by half on all spawns and respawns but that was it

[royal pier]

The first major nerf had functionally none. It was before the hologram.

[sand monolith]

It had just as much as it has now

[royal pier]

It didn't.

[sand monolith]

Find the patch notes where they added more

[royal pier]

The nerf was short lived, the hologram came shortly after it.

Idk where my phone got the word deer.

[sand monolith]

Hologram addition didn’t touch iframes

[sand monolith]

Yes that still exists

[royal pier]

It's clearly longer now.

[sand monolith]

It just like, isn’t

[royal pier]

I can literally shoot people before they can shoot me.

[sand monolith]

You could always do that

[royal pier]

Not this badly.

[sand monolith]

Okay well even if that is true, it was fine before this alleged recent bug

[royal pier]

I disagree.

[sand monolith]

Besides defib sickness which is dumb and should be removed

[royal pier]

Defib should only be useful to dip out and get someone up fast, never useful in active combat.

[sand monolith]

Why

[royal pier]

Sickness was a good idea, I'm fine with it staying.

[sand monolith]

What’s wrong with defib being used in active combat

[royal pier]

You should be punished for dying. You should not be able to win an otherwise lost fight due to someone getting i-frames to shoot while being unable to be shot.

[sand monolith]

Yeah iframes should be removed entirely. But using a gadget slot to pull off a worse revive faster during combat is fine

[royal pier]

Honestly, a better rework would be to have Defib lock you in place like a regular revive, but in half the time. Then they can reduce the sickness to like a second and have them come back at like 75%.

[grand turtle]

I would rather have no invincibility moments but no "sickness"

[sand monolith]

Medium should be pushed more towards the support role than it is now

[sand monolith]

Defib sickness is poor design that was made after defib became way too strong when model negated its main downside entirely

[royal pier]

The defib isn't really used as support, though. It's just adding back someone who died so they can help clutch up. Even if they die right after, doing just a bit of damage can be what wins the team fight.

[sand monolith]

That’s support

[royal pier]

Brainless

[sand monolith]

Most support tools in games are

[serene glade]

if you want to push medium into the "support" role i think you need to make their weapons be dogshit

[sand monolith]

It’s never been the most skillful role but it’s still healthy

[serene glade]

but that wont ever happen so

[sand monolith]

The weapons are fine besides Cerberus. Medium just needs to be bad at close range unless specifically built for it

[royal pier]

The ARs being both super easy to use and on the higher end of DPS is so dumb.

[serene glade]

the mediums need to be bad at every range if they are able to defib a teammate and then run down someone and pump out damage while the revive is happening

[grand turtle]

Happens when support gadgets/spec gets nerfed multiple times
I still play heal beam, but I cant even heal a heavy before that thing gets overheated

[royal pier]

Istg you disagree for the sake of disagreement.

No other gadget lets you just undo someone else's fuckup that fast while also staying mobile.

[sand monolith]

Almost like it’s unique? Idk what to tell you lol

[serene glade]

unique lmfao

[royal pier]

Did you not play Battlefield? Defib was a problem there, too.

[sand monolith]

Defib was great in battlefield what

[royal pier]

Oh yeah I love the small maps just being a constant train of defibs.

(Lie)

[sand monolith]

Yes same. I enjoy maximum uptime in battlefield and teamfights. It’s fun and leads to dynamic back and forth teamfights

I think it’s unbelievably boring when one death immediately decides a teamfight

[serene glade]

i love when my opponent isnt punished for dying out of position

[royal pier]

Death should matter. You should try to avoid it. Defib in both games reward brainless gameplay.

There's a reason after BF4 they started to add more downsides.

[sand monolith]

Death in finals matters if you play properly and punish the defib by pushing in while the hologram is up

Which is why the hologram is a good addition

[royal pier]

Yeah move closer to the person that'll get some free hits.

[sand monolith]

Gee I wonder why medium is meant to be bad in cqc

[royal pier]

My solution was Anti-grav Cube, but they done fucked that gadget up.

Who tf asked for the Cube to be a massive AoE with a weaker pull?

[serene glade]

its still good to throw on the hologram when they defib fortunately

[royal pier]

It was perfect before outside of the visuals being slightly off, which was an easy fix.

[serene glade]

but i love how defib is the only gadget in the game you have to build your loadout for to be mindful of

[royal pier]

Yeah it's OK, but it can fuck over yourself/team more easily because it's huge.

Also, they removed the ability to get a little boost by timing your jump right.

So honestly I think it was intended as a nerf.

Can't have Heavy having a tiny little bit of vertical mobility.

It was hardly used and now even I don't use it as much. It was a nerf disguised as a buff.

[serene glade]

yeah ive just been using goo gun for mobility lately. none of the other specializations feel worth using, and it couples well with melee weapons on heavy if the servers allow me to goo lock people

[royal pier]

And I have it almost at tier 7

[royal pier]

Yeah the goo gun thing is a big "if" lol.

Although winch is even more unreliable now than it used to be sooo...

You can only get the sledgehammer winch - swing - qm against either bad lights, or at max range stun.

[serene glade]

you dont like hitting a max range winch claw with the changes where they are supposed to be stunned longer but for some reason can still shoot you before you can shoot them? and the only guns being used are XP and cerberus so you just die in the blink of an eye for doing so?

yeah a light with dash is just never going to let you do that, ive been having more success on spear than sledge this season and i think its just because it feels better at dealing with lights

[ashen hawk]

If defib sickness is removed, you know you'll be one of the people complaining about triple defib again. It's completely fine. And about the dumb meds that defib you in the worst time and situations, that's just their problem. All embark can do, is to encourage meds to be more useful.

[sand monolith]

I never complained about triple defib lol

[ashen hawk]

yeah but it was problematic

[royal pier]

That do be how it feels now.

[sand monolith]

Yes because the downside of defib is entirely negated by op weapons that medium shouldn’t have like old model and current Cerberus

[sand monolith]

Nobody would ever complain about triple defib if it was also triple AKM

[royal pier]

At least we agree on Cerberus ig.

[sand monolith]

Or triple any weapon that doesn’t destroy in cqc

[serene glade]

im definitely complaining if i need to kill a team 6 times in order to win the fight

[sand monolith]

When you give medium util that’s countered by closing the gap, and then give medium an insane cqc weapon, don’t be surprised when the util appears to be uncounterable

[royal pier]

What's even sillier is that Cerb is stronger vs Light and Heavy, so it's pushing people more towards MMM.

[sand monolith]

Killing defibbing AKM players is like fighting toddlers

[ashen hawk]

........... right. Medium has all the op weapons. And lights don't have any at all (not mentioning heavy because most of them have been nerfed to hell rn). And cerb isnt that op. It needs a range nerf at max. Literally nothing else. No damage nerf fgs

"meDS sHouLDNt hAve POwerFuL weApoNS beCauSE THERe suPorT ClAsS!"

[sand monolith]

Who is talking about light? What?? You’re missing the point entirely

[royal pier]

I was going to jokingly say to rework the Cerberus and give it to Heavy, but at this point, why not?

[serene glade]

the argument for defib is always "they defib in bad spots" but then you fight people who dont do that and just endless stall out fights with their 5-6 lives and its just fucking miserable. but its ok because support class

[royal pier]

Medium is supposed to be the mid range build to Heavy's close range, supposedly.

[sand monolith]

Guess what, if they have light a weapon that increased its hp, that would be stupid too! Negating class downsides with primaries is stupid design regardless of class

[ashen hawk]

/s /j
am trying to say that cerb is not op, but otherwise i really dont understand what ur trying to say.

[sand monolith]

It doesn’t make sense to nerf the utility that’s balanced around a class downside because of a primary that negates that downside

[royal pier]

It just makes double Medium builds way easier than any single Medium comps.

[sand monolith]

If only the class had a tangible weakness so that stacking it meant your team comp lacked something important

[ashen hawk]

Yeah im aware, i never said anything against that. Now that you said the nerf thing, I think I should add that we shouldn't nerf anything at all and instead buff everything else up (other than stuff that has a bad design entirely)

[royal pier]

The Cerberus is a spit to the face of Heavy considering it has burn like Flamethrower but half (or less) the ttk while being effective at about the same range. Only thing FT has is ammo capacity.

[serene glade]

i think youre underplaying how usable and good the medium weapons are

[sand monolith]

This is just power creep and should never be applied in a blanket way. Everything needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis. But yea, plenty of stuff in this game needs to be pulled out of F tier

[ashen hawk]

Flamethrower also has the need for less accuracy ig. Plus, some things dont have to be "equally better". The flamethrower is in a spot where if u use it the right way u can practically take down s tier weapon users

[royal pier]

Not having a gadget that gets someone up fast while also barely hindering your ability to do damage would help with that.

[sand monolith]

Like it doesn’t make sense to buff light weapons up to the level of xp-54

[serene glade]

like the akm and famas and fcar are not shooting peas

[royal pier]

I'm pretty good with FT, but it's still infuriating to lose to Cerberus.

[sand monolith]

No that’s not a tangible downside to a class, that’s just taking away an upside. Stacking medium without defib would still bring no downside to the team

[ashen hawk]

If you continue to go by "case by case basis", that just means you continue to nerf everything in the top-tier, which is a complete nerf cycle.

[royal pier]

The gadget is literally the incentive to have multiple.

[ashen hawk]

lol yeah it gets annoying

[sand monolith]

If you stack heavy your team loses mobility, verticality, and range. If you stack light your team loses sustain damage and health. If you stack medium your team loses nothing

[royal pier]

Even the sickness doesn't change that

[ornate scaffold]

It's not "their problem" tho. It's the one getting revived's problem. Really wish they could allow us to deny defibs.

[royal pier]

I also think the MP5 is bullshit and that power creep is bad. Nerfing the Defib is anti-creep.

[royal pier]

I mentioned earlier that they could add a toggle while dead to block defib.

But I want that to come with the removal of hologram and almost no i-frames.

[sand monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/orb-of-confusion-spongebob-mermaidman-gif-8622712

[royal pier]

Yeah and the defib is part of the problem there lol.

They do lose shields but goo nades exist.

[ornate scaffold]

Sth need to change. Isn't smart to base a nerf on actual party players. They just forgot about the whole solo/casual population with those nerfs. So the least they could do is allow us to deny getting defibbed.

[sand monolith]

thats not really a downside because only heavy has shields, thats just the lack of heavy's upside

[royal pier]

Ill say Demat is also a big part of the problem. One of Heavy's key strengths is destruction, but Demat is Destruction-but-better.

[sand monolith]

medium just needs to be bad at close range, thats literally it

the cerberus is weaker in almost every way than a lot of other shotguns in the game but is still the best because of the class its on

[autumn star]

Am I the only one who's tired of glitch mines? Like glitch grenades are fine because you it's thrown at you and actually takes some precision, but glitch mines people just spam on the floor everywhere.

[sand monolith]

from 2.6 - 3.0 after fcar was nerfed and people didnt know the model was op, everyone used the AKM. and nobody complained about the class once

[royal pier]

For fun I did the old "sledge down the whole objective" strat, but it made things more chaotic. Meanwhile Demat can just open and close a hole instantly.

[serene glade]

yes

[unkempt moss]

Glitch mines are the only real way to stop some of the most obnoxious stuff in the game. Heavy needs some sort of glitch gadget.

[autumn star]

I think glitch mines ARE one of the most obnoxious things.

[sand monolith]

glitch mines are stupid and should be reverted to how they were before the rework

[ornate scaffold]

Sonar spam is quite annoying as well imo

[unkempt moss]

What is it stopping you from doing?

[royal pier]

They were fine to make Demat so that it didn't randomly open just one layer of a surface. It didn't need to take out a C4 sized chunk of it.

It should only make holes that are crouch sized. If the cash out is sideways, it should require 2 charges to drop reliably.

[serene glade]

yeah dash on 5 tick rate servers arent obnoxious, its those damn glitch traps

[royal pier]

Nah I agree Glitch Trap is bullshit.

[sand monolith]

it should just have 2 charges only or emit an ambient sound while its held

[royal pier]

Ill take any kind of impactful nerf at this point.

Medium is so bloated it's insane.

[sand monolith]

another issue with demat is that the cerberus is way too strong alongside it

so id rather see cerberus nerfed first and then wait to see how that plays

[unkempt moss]

Give glitch traps to heavy. Thats how I fix it.

[royal pier]

Medium would be more balanced as primarily support with a side of CC/AoE.

Give Light Jump Pad, give Medium Vortex to combo with Gas Mine.

[sand monolith]

just revert glitch traps to s2 state and buff the radius

[serene glade]

here we go again with deflecting issues with medium as a whole to one weapon. and then when they nerf the cerberus they continue to be strong because they have the strongest kits in the game

[royal pier]

I'm not against this, but I'd reduce the range or add a delay before the glitch happens.

[sand monolith]

no, a large amount of mediums utility is balanced around the idea that its weak in cqc. when you then make medium strong in cqc, that util becomes problematic. nerf the weapon first and then see how it performs

[royal pier]

Or maybe it pulses out an AoE glitch that lasts for a short time every few seconds.

[unkempt moss]

That’s fine. But heavy would get more reasonable use out of it. Maybe give medium glitch grenade, and the light will have its taser act like a glitch single target or something. Idk

[serene glade]

its been what 6 seasons now, i know how medium is going to perform with one nerfed weapon

[royal pier]

It could stay on Medium of it was something like this, feeds into the CC/AoE.

[sand monolith]

name a time period where medium didnt have strong cqc

[serene glade]

you say it like nerfing the cerberus is going to magically make the fcar or famas bad at close range as well

[unkempt moss]

I feel like the medium class doesn’t really have a range it’s weak at.

[sand monolith]

fcar and famas are relatively bad in cqc compared to the weapons on heavy and light

[royal pier]

Cerb should get changed, but it'll still just result in more FCAR/FAMAS/Pike/Repeater.

[autumn star]

I agree, I don't think Medium should have them, or glitch nades.

[royal pier]

Medium having Motion Sensor is also dumb.

[sand monolith]

medium needs more quirky weapons that arent complete dogshit

[royal pier]

Intel gathering should be Light's thing.

[serene glade]

no more quirky weapons allowed, got to get ready for esports

[unkempt moss]

If it won’t work as a CSGO weapon i don’t want it in my super serious esports game.

[royal pier]

Except for Heavy, they get all the interesting weapons, but they also want them to be bad apparently.

[unkempt moss]

Heavy really does carry the game on interesting guns. They need to fix the MGL.

[serene glade]

mgl fix??? you will take a stun gun rework and like it

[royal pier]

"Here's a spread buff, but also WATCH YOUR HEAVY ASSES CAUSE WE'RE CONSIDERING MAKING YOU BASICALLY IMMOBILE WHILE SPOOLING IT."

"We want these interesting weapons for marketing, not actually be good!"

[unkempt moss]

Yes embark-sama!

[serene glade]

imagine if you tuned into a finals esports event and someone was using something silly like a spear, would be unacceptable.

[unkempt moss]

I’d shut it off immediately. I want to watch the top players use guns that are in my most favorite every other video game.

Stun is just being removed at this point right? How long can the rework take? What can a stun gun even do alternatively.

[serene glade]

its being reworked to one shot heavy

i got the leaks

[royal pier]

MGL32 changes:

No linear scaling for explosions, go back to three set damage values.

Less bounce when used from height or when fired close to the user. Not quite frag grenade level, but closer to that than the current bounce.

Slightly faster projectile speed.

Make the "tactical" reload the normal reload. Why does leaving in nades make the reload faster when removing them is an extra step?

Consider 84 damage instead of 83, meaning you can potentially 3 tap medium. Only do after the first couple of changes.

[serene glade]

giving the mgl an impact damage as well would be a nice change, if someone is in your face you have the ability to do damage, doesnt explode or anything on impact from close range, just does something like 50 damage. i just depise how the counter is running inside a grenade launcher users player model

[shell sonnet]

Make the "tactical" reload the normal reload. Why does leaving in nades make the reload faster when removing them is an extra step?
PLEASE
i want the spinny reload no matter what

also, i do think the empty shells still need to be removed no matter what
but that also means it would still take the same time no matter if you have unused shell left

[unkempt moss]

Didnt you hear the ChepechitoGorganzola from EU is really good with MGL so it’s A tier these days. Rivals the XP

[serene glade]

ah yes sorry massa

[oblique crypt]

What were glitch mines like before?

[shell sonnet]

normal mine but glitch instead of damage

i always felt like it didnt last long enough to really make use of it unless you camp it, which i found boring

there was pocket sand and potentially dropping it on a dome

[oblique crypt]

Yea that doesn't seem very good

[unkempt moss]

They weren’t as effective, so lights and deffibERs can get away with more.

I think glitch mines are fine as is, just need to be a heavy gadget so medium isn’t so ridiculously overloaded on useful gadgets.

[serene glade]

medium needs to be overloaded, they are the support class. dumbass

[unkempt moss]

Sorry Embark-sama. I will defib and shoot AR like a good boy

[royal pier]

I despise the idea of impact on players. That completely changes how the weapon plays.

[unkempt moss]

How so?

[serene glade]

the damage isnt nuts so just running in looking for impact damage is horrible, just lets you have an option that isnt shooting at your toes or charge and slam

[royal pier]

The aim would be to always hit with the initial lob, and the bounce would be far less important.

[unkempt moss]

Rewarding accuracy and giving someone a fighting chance on a weapon that is already criminally underpowered for what it is? Maybe thats what is needed, because how the weapon plays now is awful.

[royal pier]

It's about having an identity that's different than the CL-40

[serene glade]

dont make it explode at close range is what im saying, dont make it explode on impact either

its just something to combat being in your face

[unkempt moss]

He just wants the projectile to have damage on it, and then explode afterwards.

[royal pier]

Mastering the bounce is what makes it unique. The problem is that the linear scaling is buggy.

[unkempt moss]

Almost like a beanbag round, and then it still gets the bounce.

[royal pier]

And it's a little too slow vs mobile targets.

[unkempt moss]

You could add both the impact damage and linear scaling and it’ll still be niche at best.

[unkempt moss]

What is this disproving?

[royal pier]

I just think having to bounce is what makes it unlikely anything else.

Add any impact damage, and that's what you have to go for now.

It's suboptimal otherwise.

[unkempt moss]

It would still function like this… he’s saying that if the projectile hits it would do 50 damage, bounce and then explode like normal. Like a mid range melee basically.

[serene glade]

if you go for impact damage and miss wouldnt the grenade just miss them entirely

so going for that over the lob would be suboptimal most the time

[royal pier]

Which is why it fundamentally changes the weapon. It would be very close the the CL-40.

You would be expected to hit directly.

Because otherwise it's lower damage.

[serene glade]

i dont want it to be like the cl40 or explode on impact, i just want something to combat someone in an open field in my face. the lob would definitely still be what you should be going for because missing impact on someone would mean 0 damage compated to whatever chip you are getting with the lob

[royal pier]

It could also become oppressive in terms of steal denial. Let's say it was 50 impact and then it drops in max damage range.

That's 133 damage a nade.

[serene glade]

50 was a random number i pulled out of my ass

[royal pier]

Well go much lower and it's pointless.

[serene glade]

its better than the somtimes 2 damage i get with it when a light dashes into my player model

[royal pier]

I mentioned going back to three set damage zones.

No linear scaling.

I'd try either 83/84, 70, and 50.

[serene glade]

ill take anything at this point that isnt just blatantly ignoring it

[royal pier]

I'd take the range going back down to where it used to be in exchange for better breakpoints.

83 vs 84 depends on whether they keep Medium's DPS in terms of ARs where it is or not.

Being able to 3 blast Medium would probably be too good if they lower Medium DPS. Especially since the CL-40 takes a minimum of 4 hits with a lower ROF, although it's impact, so it might even out to being basically a trade if both sides play optimally. That would be ideal.

[placid slate]

I think the model should reload a bit faster, more specifically the part where you catch and reinsert the shell. That entire animation gives you zero progress on the reload so speeding it up would help the gun feel better to use

Also the bottom right pellet is slightly out of line with the rest of them which I find minorly annoying

[faint silo]

The real solution is do undo the quick melee anim cancel nerf

[ornate scaffold]

I think minigun should reload faster. 3s. Only adjustment it needs imo. Don't feel that it would make it OP since you can still hear the wind up and get away if close, where it is crazy strong.

[placid slate]

That won't make it reload faster but I do agree for the sake of the ks23

[faint silo]

That's true but I think the reload is fine, the problem is that it's a literal toy right now
you CAN anim cancel with gadgets swapping but it's so unwieldy it might as well not exist

[placid slate]

Eh not really, it's just not cancer rn

They could adjust the spread slightly since it does have damage drop-off but no damage increases

They could just make it more consistent and people will be satisfied, expect maybe the people who used it solely because it was meta

[faint silo]

they butchered my baby so i just swapped to cerb
and now i use cb

[ashen hawk]

i mean that they should know when to defib and when to not

[restive plover]

The correct answer is never because defibrillators are ass.

[arctic compass]

Idk if its just me but minigun just feels way to slow for how fast paced this game is dont understand how your supposed to engage with it

[heady rapids]

Keep it on rev

If you were to run around a little more faster with the Minigun, it’d be too op.

[gritty swallow]

People seem to praise demat and call turret bad but I just don't know why

[placid slate]

demat can go fuck itself, its just explosives without any of the risk involved

[lusty raven]

In the now ancient Battlefield Bad Company 2 (maybe in other BFs as well, idrk) the underbarrel grenade launchers dealt impact damage and would simply despawn the round and not explode when you hit someone directly... maybe that could be the option with MGL? 🤔

So when you fire it into a building, it bounces around and blows up, but if you hit directly, the person consooms the projectile, takes lets say 100 or so damage and the grenade wont explode... that would give the MGL user ability to protect themselves while sacrificing the splash potential

[royal pier]

To what end though? Cause it would have to deal more damage than the regular splash to matter, but then you still have the problem that you are now encouraged to use it like the CL-40.

[lusty raven]

well kinda... the "on direct hit the grenade doesnt explode" should already be a difference to Chinalake

so if you get ambushed by 3 players up close, you could either fire at the ground to explode them all eventually... or aim directly at them and hope you can pick them off one by one

meanwhile with chinalake you would simply fire straight at them without a care in the world, because it explodes even if you hit a person directly

[sturdy cypress]

i agree

[weak kernel]

I don't think it was based on hitting someone directly, it was based on range, which is a thing in real life, there's a minimum arming distance on grenade launchers so you don't misfire and blow yourself and everyone else up.

[lusty raven]

Well yes... Thats how it is irl, but I really think hitting the GLs directly into ppl wont caused the projectile to blow... Maybe i can find some old video or something 🤔

[royal pier]

I'd rather it just be good at the thing that makes it unique, which is the bounce.

[weak kernel]

if it worked more like the halo grenade where it detonates on a timer after the first bounce I'd like it more than it specifically detonating on the second bounce which makes it unusable in way more situations than if it were the former

[lusty raven]

Or... If we want to be extra brutal... Maybe the projectiles could embed into players with direct hits...

[ashen patio]

Just a quick question, can throwing knives one-shot a heavy at full hp?

[shell sonnet]

no, they deal like 240 damage if both headshot iirc

[ashen patio]

hmmmmmm

thats weird, cause in a game i played, i was chilling at full hp when I get oneshot by a random light

[shell sonnet]

maybe 2x hs + qm, had that happen before

or you just caught a random stay at the same time

[ashen patio]

nah, he wasn't close enough to get a quick melee

[shell sonnet]

the damage table on death is messed up anyways, only shows partial damage sometimes

[ashen patio]

also, it said all my death damage was caused by him

so idk what happened

[acoustic narwhal]

I don’t recall how or why I joined ts, but the game fire

[shell sonnet]

i think all damage is cut off from the message if you regen at all

so maybe you were low, regenerated (all former mentions get removed) and before you got back to 240 he 2x headshot you

[ashen patio]

that could have happened

thanks tho

[unkempt moss]

This isn’t the case with their ideas. Technically because of the bounce you would only be getting the impact damage and then it would bounce off in some random direction before exploding after collision with a player model.

The player would act as geometry, but take damage. It would have to be an active choice between the bounce or impact in most cases.

[royal pier]

Which kinda just seems like a pointless addition that might even be detrimental to the AoE capabilities.

[unkempt moss]

True. I hope it just stays terrible at this point so I can keep taking shots at Embark over their terrible balancing.

[narrow bane]

https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1k2j425/lets_finally_buff_the_93r_to_a_healthy_state/
read my yap on why i think the 93r should be adjusted

[unkempt moss]

Can you give a cliff notes?

[narrow bane]

not sure what u mean by this broski

[serene glade]

He ain't reading all that

[slender sierra]

For the folks who said "I ain't reading allat"

OP is suggesting a rework of the 93r that isn't just a damage buff but a higher ttk on mediums and heavy with emphasis on accuracy and going for headshots.

They also proposed slightly nerfing the damage output so that it's less oppressive to other lights among other things.

(correct me if I'm wrong lol)

[clever sleet]

Bring back the damn Sword holy sht... if its too " over power " against noobs then don't math noobs with high lvl players... easy as that.

[oblique crypt]

I'm sure they have a plan with the sword, just trying to quell complaints for now.

[serene glade]

Sword deserved a nerf but not that one. Problem is being able to hold the charge with dash, while also dash being impossible to shoot sometimes with the servers.

[clever sleet]

i know they wont leave it like this, its stupid excessive even for them.
the thing is i dont like any other class/weapon other than the sword, this game became my only go to, and i fucking loved it, even with the bugs and movement glitches, until... they took the most precious thing away. </3.

[serene glade]

Please don't say get better aim and track it because that's not what im saying. Dash completely avoids melee sometimes with how horrible these servers are

[clever sleet]

dash its kind of durty but if thats the case, i rather give all my gadgets away and simply use dash and sword... i dont ask for anything else man

using the sword without dash feels like eating cereal without milk, so you can understand what im saying.

[unkempt moss]

He’s obese, he definitely knows what you’re saying.

If they revert sword I want flame thrower to provide thrust. It’s only fair.

[strange stream]

My issue with the sword is that it seemed like I was always taking two instances of damage whenever a sword players used the lunge attack. As a heavy it felt really depressing having a sword player do two lunges and im already starving for hp

Goo King mentioned the flamethrower and I think you can make an interesting point here. Even using a weapon intended for very short range like the flamethrower it can be very hard or even impossible to kill an evasive dash sword user before they kill you

[limber echo]

Rocket launcher go BURRRRRRR

[green parrot]

they should just change swords lunge to 110 or 115 dmg

so the combos still work but the lunge isnt to broken

[crystal seal]

hi

[rustic plaza]

whats the strongest gun right now for light?

[full rock]

That's the neat part: they all are,

In the right hands🫤

[rustic plaza]

thank u, next time no need to respond

[full rock]

I'm telling the truth tho

[rustic plaza]

i will block u on grindr

also i.e. sword

[unkempt moss]

XP

[outer ibex]

I'm still waiting for the dual blades buff

Which it needs it more then any weapon

[slate gyro]

true

[sacred flower]

P3R

[slender bear]

SH1900 or XP-54

[lusty raven]

You had me at burst delay. The amount of time between bursts makes it extremely hard for me to use. Id rather use Alien... But decreasing the delay will both make the weapon perform a bit better and make it easier to use imho

[lusty raven]

I personally find the MP5 quite tricky to use... Maybe because of the recoil pattern? Or shitty hipfire? Dunno... But imho the Ingram holds the first place as the deadliest Light weapon. It can dish out so much damage from that massive mag.

Also... While I admit its not exactly op, but I am quite fond of the Mass. Huge magazine, super quick reload, tight spread, so somewhat useful at range (especially against damaged fleeing Lights) and enough damage to instakill unsuspecting Light with single shot and melee attack...

The only possible buff I believe the Mass could get is having the magazine size decreased to its actual size (5 rounds) and the pumping speed increased a bit, so it has more dps, especially against heavies who need 4 full hits

[slender bear]

Sorry, bit what are the MP5 and the Ingram? I don't know what the mass is either, but I just don't know what terms the community uses for a lot of the weapons.

[lusty raven]

Oh... I believe the MP5 is XP something in the Finals... Ingram is a tiny smg with a silencer and Mass is a underbarrel shotgun, that the Light has in a standalone configuration... If I remember correctly they did some kind of word play with the Mass... Matter i think? 😅

Ye... I dont know if its because of the licensing, but they use different names for the weapons than they are called irl... But just slightly off

It would be interesting to sit down and break down the "finals name" of the guns and see how they got there... Some are quite obvious, like the CL-40, which is ChinaLake grenade launcher 40mm... Some are a the same like their irl counterpart, like AKM... Some are quite weird like HCAR

[slender bear]

Oh yeah I love the Matter. The XP is currently considered to be among the best light weapons, but I don't play automatic weapons very well and recoil pattern memorization is too much for me. The Ingram is probably the M11, which has some of the best damage in the game right now. Mass is awesome because you can hit a light once and quick melee to finish them, but it is awesome how much more consistent it is than the double barrel.

[lusty raven]

Oh ye, that actually makes sense... The Ingram is manufacturer and M11 is the model... Silly me

But yes... The XP is deadly, but requires some skill to learn the recoil pattern (which i refuse to do)... In my headcannon, the Light is the party's damage dealer, just like the medium is support and heavy is the breacher and as such I dont mind that the lights have the most deadly weapons... They are squishy and can be cut down easily if they position themselves badly

[serene glade]

im gonna breach all over myself when i use demat on medium

[unkempt moss]

The reason the XP is so ridiculous is because it’s at the crossroads of extreme damage/range and ease of use. Im not sure what’s difficult about the non- existent recoil.

Question: If you were from Bosnia, where would you want me to take you?

[slender bear]

Why does dagger's secondary feel so terrible to use? I know it nearly one shots almost anything, but the backstabber almost never actually work in real matches, to the point where I stood directly behind someone who was afk and it didn't work. Sword's lunge at least gives it some mobility, but dagger's slows you down for the entire charge time, which makes it feel even longer than sword's lunge. That paired with the fact it doesn't work makes it feel horrible. They should honestly either halve the charge up time (not remove, because it can still put out good damage) or just give it a new secondary attack.

[arctic zodiac]

XP's recoil is nonexistant! Its the easiest auto to use.

[sly girder]

Bullshit, I have an easier time shooting people at range with the ARN

[slender bear]

Also I just realized I have a serious skill issue so take that with a grain of salt.

[lusty raven]

Agreed, the ARN feels much smoother... but compared to XP it has nonexistent damage

[lusty raven]

oh yes... the Demat basically buried the Heavy class

[indigo nexus]

It would be if you had used it enough; it feels existent to me

[lusty raven]

Most of people now rather play Medium with Demat instead of hauling around the Heavy with their shitty weapons and slow moving bulk... I still prefer the Heavy because of the cool gadgets like Dome and nowadays bcs of the Winch, but ye... its hard to stay competetive while playing Heavy 😦

[outer ibex]

Yeah we haven't gotten gadgets in forever

Which in my opinion is way more important then new weapons

[lusty raven]

Eh... kind of... I quite struggle to find current Heavy's weapons effective... I rather play with Sledge, because it at least has the added benefit of being a breaching tool (which frees my gadgets from shit like C4 or RPG)

[outer ibex]

We already got enough weapons

[lusty raven]

That may be true... but we dont have enough EFFECTIVE weapons... I am not saying they should add more... but maybe bring the existing weapons at least to be on par with medium

[outer ibex]

Yeah BC they keep nerfing weapons instead of buffing

[lusty raven]

true... I havent seen the basic M60 and Lewis gun in ages...

[outer ibex]

I always like weapons getting buffed instead of nerfed

BC the weapons are gonna feel clunky which they already are

[slender bear]

I'm worried about how they're going about nerfing things. It's been clear to see that cerb was a problem since at least the start of season 6, and no nerf. Sword had Phantom strikes as an issue, but other than that was balanced but it got gutted within a week of people complaining.

[lusty raven]

well to be fair... the nerfing is the quickest solution... Everyone plays this weapon, we could either sit down, look at the data and figure out why noone picks the other weapons, OR we could nerf it now and see what happens....

[outer ibex]

Ik that's one reason I don't like S6 the balance changes

Like they nerfed data reshaper like why?!? It's useless in ranked

[outer ibex]

Yeah BC it's lazy and will bite them later

[slender bear]

Because lockbolt was overpowered and they didn't like that it had a single counter 😦

[outer ibex]

Medium has only gotten 1 spec and 1 gadget

[lusty raven]

i mean... the medgun is still nice

[slender bear]

Med gun seems like such a cool specialization. I kind of wish they made it universal but that would steal medium's healing niche.

[ashen hawk]

lol ok

[slender bear]

They should make it so that you can change your load out even if you get revived in casual. I get that it would allow for some shenanigans involving suicide to change weapons mid round, but I'm really sick of changing weapons only to get revived, then I have to go find somewhere to kill myself with gas just to change weapons, assuming I don't get revived again. I would rather have enemies quickly change weapons in a creative way at the cost of taking two of them out of play for 20 seconds than spend a minute and a half dying and praying that my teammates don't revive me so I can change something.

[lusty raven]

Ye... But to be fair the specialization should be one powerful gadget... and I believe that the Healing beam checks this box 100%

Tho I am missing some kind of "healing gadget"... In Abiotic Factor there is a Healing briefcase item, which you can throw at the ground and it slowly heals EVERYTHING in a small radius... Maybe they could introduce something like that as well 🤔

It could be highly visible so everyone could see that someone is trying to heal there and it shouldnt be as strong as the Healing beam, but ye... something which you could use on your battered team, when you wipe a team and you need to get ready to fight with second team

could have a decent synergy with Heavy's Dome or Mesh, as it would force the attackers to either close the distance quick or let the enemy heal

and ofc the direct disadvantage would be that it could potentially heal your enemies as well, if they manage to get in the radius

[shell sonnet]

I dont think we should add more healing items

The only one we had already had massive complaints and basically had to be balanced by attrition where they just nerfed it over and over agaon until complaints were reduced enough

A new healing item risks the need to be dealt with in the same way

And there are a bunch of issues im seeing from a mile away

-regeneration is already decently fast in this game, so to be worthwhile it might need fast healing (which can easily, tip into being too fast and frustrating to fight)
-even if its slow, a single point of damage could already potentially mess up the breakpoints on a weapon thats balanced around killing in that amount of shots
-its self healing, so people would go around using it like aps where they throw it down whenever they engage someone, possibly leaving its usage selfish
-it leaves the enemy a with a problematic choice, do i shoot the item or them?
If they shoot the enemy, they get to constantly see their health go back up while theyre shooting them, which sucks and would be even more frustrating to loose to a small hp difference with
And if they shoot the item, its basically still free hp for the item user anyways, since youre occupied in shooting it while they get to shoot you back, youre also wasting ammo on it instead

I hope this doesnt sound personal, i just think this kind of item has too much potential to be problematic if added

One healing item i could potentially see being added is a carbon copy of tf2 heavies sandwich (ignoring the heal allies part)
Because heavies do take ages to regen, so its useful
It cant be used mid combat, leaving this a non-issue
And outside of that it can still be a decent risk vs reward thing going on with enemies ambushing them during it

[verbal mantle]

Problem with Heavy is that they often lose fights but win games.

The objectives of the game and the cadence of respawns often means that being survivable alone will often result in victory, even if you personally don't feel like you do much.

Or at least that's how I feel. The devs claim heavy has the highest win rate.

[shell sonnet]

But we should be incredibly careful with any healing items that could be added, there is a lot of potential for them to mess the game up

[verbal mantle]

I agree with RS___C. Healing items are a real problem in game design.

Overwatch was most fun very early on when no one wanted to run healers.

Once the two healer meta established in earnest the game got more and more grueling.

[shell sonnet]

I dont mind the idea of healing items, it just needs to be done with a lot of consideration

Like, the healing enemies thing
While good on paper, i dont see it really working out

Like, you need to get close for that
While you get close they shoot you (which would be especially troublesome if used to heal a team, if you try to rush down 3 people, youre dead)
So you would need to shoot back early, making it meaningless
Even if that wasnt the case, you only just leveled the playing field (or are potentially still at a disadvantage if your weapon happens to have a bad breakpoint)
And it could be used to force punishment too
Set up a mine + healing, abuse healing to win the fight, if they do try to get close, they blow up

[narrow bane]

Ah, here I'll summarize

Buffing damage will not work. Why? It'll make the 93R too overpowered.

So I actually propose reducing damage but also reducing burst delay, which will make it so you have to wait less time between bursts.
This will make TTK times much more reasonable.

[lusty raven]

It doesnt sound personal... Those are valid concerns

[slender bear]

Trying to use dagger's secondary feels like I'm throwing no matter when I use it. It does crazy damage, but the charge time is longer than sword's, so I keep charging and releasing early, to the point where I sometimes try to charge a stab 3 times before panicking and just swinging. Not only does It not give any mobility, unlike sword, the damage without hitting the back is terrible. It also has crazy latency issues. I've seen a lot of people complaining a bout dagger hitting from the front, which is a serious problem, but that's only ever happened for me once, and a lot of the time the dagger doesn't even give me the extra damage even if I hit somebody who is afk square in the back with it. The dagger's secondary gets me killed every time I try to use it, and even when I hit with it it usually won't do damage right.

I usually get upwards of 7 kills for every one death on other weapons, even post nerf sword, but my k/d ratio with dagger has been around 1/6

[cunning kettle]

Blame embark for making it have a shitty 150 degree backstab cone

[slender bear]

I honestly wish they would just give us back one click stabbing and just nerf the damage a bit to make up for it.

[cunning kettle]

Nah current dagger is way more consistent (aside from 150 change)

[shell sonnet]

Some would have taken that the other way, cant hurt to clarify

Thanks you for being understanding

[jagged pumice]

Is the Repeater hitscan?

[cunning kettle]

Everything except for ks23, bow, throwing knives, flamethrower, and sniper past 40m are hitscan (i might’ve missed some)

[jagged pumice]

Ah thanks, such a good info

[atomic sigil]

Hm, no complaints about the sword? Weird. I guess its early.

[shell sonnet]

Poor cl-40 and mgl32 🥲

[cunning kettle]

yea i def missed some 😭

[amber ermine]

nah hit scan for throwing knives is diabolical

[hollow inlet]

Dev team really rather have a weapon people love made unusable instead of fixing the bugs that it has
If something is too strong, you take it out the rotation, but not the defib?
the gadget that no matter the nerf is required on every loadout since s1?
Defib meta is fine but sword is too overwhelming. Make it make sense.

[tranquil hearth]

Developers just love to play mediums for sure thats why every season they add another op gun to this class and overall they ignore facts about how strong this class is, model being op since s0 but they didnt care till s5, just to add cerberus after it and make it even stronger then model, guys getting invulnerability after getting defib is another crazy thing because then can shoot you and u cant even do dmg to them, like make it that we can hit them instantly and not have to guess oh this is right moment to shot ... shield having the most weird hitbox and tanking bullets that are not even hitting it, famas being increadibly strong, like medium do better at doing dmg then lights which is crazy considering it it support class after all, they get best stuff in the game and its bascially u either play medium or suffer and lose

[shut bane]

Buff repeater

[sand monolith]

The issue is that if healing beam is ever buffed to not be ass, it’ll be too strong

[narrow bane]

oh yeah invulnerability with defib is diabolical
this invulnerability should be removed

[sand monolith]

There isn’t a good middle ground to balance a single healing item around, if it’s not dogshit then it’s a must pick and if it’s not a must pick then it’s dogshit

I haven’t seen heal used in a ranked or comp game since like s4

Which sucks because imo healing makes fights less one dimensional and way more back and forth based on smart cooldown usage and resource management

I think more heals would benefit the game as long as they’re on high cooldowns and fit class boundaries

[remote raft]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1187060685906116638/1363172857953124573/A4A00E1E-5711-400D-A88F-87F958782657.gif

[sand monolith]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1187060685906116638/1363172857953124573/A4A00E1E-5711-400D-A88F-87F958782657.gif?ex=68051127&is=6803bfa7&hm=f02059b65b55e77beb40d0d74fa7aabf6211507312540a8cc6023d3e7adb7763&

Cool gif

[slender bear]

Imo jump pad should have been on light from the start. The fact that medium gets more movement from it's gadgets than the movement class is criminal considering it almost has more defense gadgets than heavy on top of the healing stuff it has.

[sand monolith]

No don’t take away even more team util from medium

Medium isn’t meant to be the call of duty class

[slender bear]

I think they could even make it a universal gadget like the grenades or the proximity sensor on launch. I just feel like all of the interesting gadgets are gatekept by medium. I'm biased cuz I main light but medium's melees look fun, defib looks fun, jump pad and zip line look fun, light is the only class that doesn't get mines, and they stole our proximity sensor! I get that sonar goes through walls, but I would have loved to have the extra duration even if it doesn't bypass line of sight.
Light has some interesting stuff, but medium has so much more room for creativity and playing to the environment, which is kind of what the finals is all about.

The only really unique things light has are gateway, thermal, sonar, and vanishing bomb.

[polar trout]

And demat is almost always better than actually blowing shit up with heavy, it's no wonder that medium is the only class that can be three stacked, it can do everything

[polar trout]

Ong

[slender bear]

We're just lucky they didn't give medium a c4 or rpg ripoff like they got light. I wouldn't be surprised if they did next season though, to round out medium as (still) the best class in the finals. Technically they already have demat though, which is better than anything else for breaching. (Even BREACH charges)

And breach charges are worse than c4 in every way, which is pretty sad tbh.

[polar trout]

Oh yeah heavy should get access to the light destruction gadgets, I'd like to choose more destruction over DMG or blast radius or wtv

[polar trout]

It's nice having three, you can open multiple holes

[slender bear]

Oh I didn't realize c4 only had two, that's my bad.

[polar trout]

It has one

Max place of two, but one held, so you have to wait like half a minute to get it back to actually utilize the max placed

[slender bear]

Wait that's actually crazy

[polar trout]

Yep

[slender bear]

I guess it was actually c4 that was worse than breach charges in almost every way.

[polar trout]

It's like... they gave heavy all these destruction tools that they also just so happened to give really high DMG, then were surprised when people used them for DMG instead of breaking shi

[slender bear]

I've gotten instakilled on platform 4 times today alone by getting rpg'd without realizing there was c4 behind me.

[polar trout]

Like RPG used to do 165 DMG, would you rather one shot an enemy (or massively chunk them) or blow a hole in a wall with your minute long RPG cool down? Its kinda obvious

[slender bear]

I'm glad I didn't have to deal with that these last 5 seasons. I quit back in S1 because I didn't think the game had controller capabilities.

[fathom cove]

ospuze version needed

[polar trout]

Technically is an OSPUZE skin, fizzy tiger is an OSPUZE drink

[slender bear]

I guess drink companies still have monopolies even in a dystopian world.
Oh wait...

[unkempt moss]

Medium is the catch all class unfortunately. There isn’t really a single thing it does poorly. Defib is the single strongest gadget in the game by a huge margin. Only somewhat rivaled by another medium gadget, and maybe gateway. It’s the support class, call of duty class, breacher class, anti gadget class, lockdown class. It does everything.

[sand monolith]

well its meant to have a weakness in cqc but the devs gave up on that

[hearty bolt]

Buff sord

[hearty bolt]

Jack of all trades, master of every single one of those trades

[unkempt moss]

I don’t really have a problem with it having strong guns, but it needs to have a weakness somewhere. I personally think defib is really unhealthy for the game, and so is heal to a certain extent if it wasn’t brought down to where it is now.

[unkempt moss]

King of all trades.

I think, defib/heal has been the origin point for every single poor balance decision that has been made. The light continues to be buffed and buffed to compensate for the fact that nothing stays dead. A light is expected to be able to nuke things down with 150 health, to then fight that same target that is invulnerable and with 50% health again. They either challenge or have their entire previous effort negated instantaneously by a single gadget. And in this challenge, they must deal with the medium that defibbed shooting at them.

It makes light inherently less valuable as a class in its entirety. It overvalues heavy, which has caused them to be nerfed constantly to the point that it’s a meme.

[unkempt moss]

On top of this, embark and medium players have gaslit heavy and lights in to hating each other. When mediums are the least fun thing to play against in the game. Someone said it earlier, but it’s the only class that can be triple stacked effectively and it’s true.

[graceful nova]

Minigun accuracy buff is great, I’m going for headshots in minigun duels in Bunny Bash

[serene glade]

XP buffs are great. I'm playing with one hand and winning gunfights

[unkempt moss]

What are you doing with the other hand, boy?

[serene glade]

Using my rosary sir

[unkempt moss]

Praying for more XP buffs?

[serene glade]

Well it is a borderline A tier weapon. Would be nice to buff it and get it in the level as something like the cl40. That thing is way too easy to use and does way too much damage. When I'm running in a straight line or just standing still and die to that thing I get so angry and wanna start posting about nerfing it in game feedback

[unkempt moss]

Yeah, Appoh said that Minigun is as effective as XP since he saw some guy in Europe really good at using it. He said the XP was effective at all ranges, with a fast reload, and very little recoil. And the Minigun was similar in performance. I have no choice but to believe him since he has YouTube subscribers.

[serene glade]

Yeah you have to trust someone that wears an arm sleeve while playing the finals WHILE also having yutoob subcribers

[sly girder]

The Cerberus has pretty much convinced me that Mediums are more of a problem than people realize

[unkempt moss]

What class do you play?

[sly girder]

Light.

[unkempt moss]

Oh yeah, bud. I play heavy and that thing is ridiculous against us as well.

Im convinced the balance guy at embark is a medium player.

[sly girder]

People have the fucken audacity to say that Light players are Embark’s golden children

When off the top of my head, I can’t think of a single weapon or gadget from Medium that’s straight up terrible

Besides the dual blades, maybe

[serene glade]

Medium is the golden child, but the embark team balances the game around light it feels like if that makes sense

[sly girder]

Considering medium has gotten way more buffs than nerfs compared to light, no not really.

[cunning kettle]

thing is, everyone has been complaining (casuals and high elo players), yet embark has not done shit about cerb

[serene glade]

Nerfs are centered around the light class

Gun kill times for other classes are built around the 150 hp class

[radiant orbit]

Was super excited for the arena vision sets because I absolutely adore silver and wood skins.

This being said I couldn’t be more upset they put wood on the scope of the sr84 and decided to make the entire barrel of the cerb wood????? What were you people thinking????

I will return to the peace of my 93R virtual extension skin.

I think someone at embark hates me specifically with the pueblo power and the arena vision sets.

[faint silo]

perfectly balanced™️

[slender bear]

I honestly feel like in completive light players get the short end of the stick. I've mostly only heard from other people because I'm a casual player, but apparently light has been pretty bad in top ranked because at that level all the movement in the world won't save you and you have less health. Then they came out with the weakest of the three new weapons (which was buffed, so it's not really a problem). The only thing that made the class work in high level when I wad playing in S1 was stun gun, which got removed because it was annoying. It feels like they try to make the light class feel good, but it's a high skill class so bad players complain when people make it work right. Ultimately good light players can't make it in competitive so they go to casual, where people complain because they have to deal with people who are good at the game. Then they take away everything that's fun in light class because if it's fun, it works and people don't like fighting against light's play style when it works.

[unkempt moss]

I can only say as high as low diamond, but even in to those ranks I see light players playing like absolute morons. Even the ruby lights I played with and against they either go in and die instantly or win their 1v3. There’s no in between. On an exceedingly rare occasion I get the dream light players that play off the team and it dominates.

To me, lights seem to think they should be able to do way more than they should. Embark seems to try and facilitate that by making them nukes. Imo the game should play more like Spies vs Mercs from splinter cell. Where they are strong until they’re caught, after which they get deleted. This whole thing with lights needing to be terminators at 150hp has never made sense.

[surreal oyster]

Heavy best weapons to get? I preffer shooting bullets but anything goes

[dusky field]

Deagles, Shak 50, Lewis gun, M60 you have a lot of options 🫠

[unkempt moss]

SHAK is the most consistently good in the most situations I think. M60/Lewis.

Deagles require aim but are good at most ranges. SA requires an understanding of the class, map, and match ups but is strong.

KS, Flamethrower, and Mini kind of all suffer from very fun but frustrating if you’re not in the right circumstances.

Sledge/Spear is probably in that group as well.

[dusky field]

I love Minigun ngl

[unkempt moss]

MGL is dogshit, but “muh idenidy” will keep it that way for ever.

[unkempt moss]

Minigun is the funnest gun on the class right now. I agree. There’s something about letting that big biddy sing thats so satisfying.

[dusky field]

Its probably the only weapon that makes me play heavy and maybe Spear but thats bc im a melee player (Riot shield)

[unkempt moss]

What spec do you use for spear?

[dusky field]

Winch Claw

If you also wanna know my loadout (for Spear) its Winch Claw, Goo nade, RPG, Dome shield

[unkempt moss]

Best spear player I’ve ever seen was this guy called WingedYolk, not sure if he’s on here. He used the GooGun spec to lock people down and trap people and beat ass with the spear.

[dusky field]

Scary ass playstyle

[unkempt moss]

Yeah, I thought it only worked with winch but he was getting dubs and wipes with it. As a Gooman myself, I appreciated it even more.

[dusky field]

The best Spear players i know are troop and Kyubi (idk if troop still plays Finals)

[dusky field]

I could never play Goo gun and Spear ngl i would probably kill my fingers

[unkempt moss]

If you ever learn googun, it makes the game so much fun. It makes every other spec feel weak.

What’s your load out for riot shield?

[dusky field]

Demat, Data Reshaper, Jumpad (or Zipline) and Goo nade

I used to play Explosive mines instead of Data Reshaper but i got cooked by mediums placing a Jumpad 🫥

[covert topaz]

Can we fix the demat???, why do I gotta slam my trigger just for it to work??

[unkempt moss]

Ah, so you’re the reason it got nerfed. I was wondering who that was targeting.

[dusky field]

Nah im ass at this game i do remember Bizzy saying that his comp used Data Reshaper right before the patch notes came out so maybe thats why

[radiant orbit]

Instead of tommy gun for med (which I think has been suggested once or twice) consider this, an American 180.

https://youtube.com/shorts/yNUGAZdqxqw?si=sl5dyOPxeFCipVeB

massive mag, reasonably quick reload, nearly no recoil whatsoever, great hipfire, but low damage and poor ranged performance. It’d fit in great amongst the rifles as a proper sustained close-mid range damage option, great for supporting the team as even though the damage is low its easy to land shots at any range so it’ll keep enemies on the run from regen-ing health. See the vision? Eh?

[gritty swallow]

What do you use data reshaper for? I use riot shield a lot and my loadout is something very Different

[lucid marsh]

Thoughts on a gas mask gagdet?

[serene glade]

This guy sounds based

[dusky field]

Mostly bc of Jumpads since they counter Riot shield.
Also if there are mine players Data Reshaper is just really good since you don't have to figure out a new way to get to a Cashout or enemy etc. Turrets are also annoying when playing Riot shield.
And i Reshape glitch barrels into Red barrels a lot for possible instant dmg without having to chase a mf for 5 years

Btw Data Reshaper is really good on Powershift if enemies are playing APS Turret and Barricades

[gritty swallow]

I have run full mines with a full team a few times so I get what you mean Il maybe check it out ,it sounds handy

Do you like demat on riot? cause I have never used it before when it Came out it just looked very hard to use so I didn't realy get into it

[slender bear]

It would be pretty cool if light got something with more utility like how heavy got the machine gun this season. All light ever gets is weapons meant to kill as fast as possible and it hardly ever dips into other extremes. They tried to move in that direction with the ARN, but they gave it a magazine of 60 that gets interrupted every 30 rounds, then turned around and gave machine gun higher damage, with environmental destruction and a capacity of 250 rounds, then they ended up just buffing ARN so it can kill as fast as possible too. I really hope they do something like machine gun again but for light.

[unkempt moss]

Heavy is the fun class, bud. Just switch.

[dusky field]

I love Demat on any weapon its very versatile and especially good on Riot shield since you can cut corners and catch enemies of guard but the best use for Demat imo is dropping the Cashout.

Also it helps you escape fights which is very important on Riot shield

If you want to see a good Demat player i recommend watching Sanguine on YT he basicially only plays Demat on Medium not really a Riot shield player tho

[slender bear]

I love all the stuff heavy has, but I'm addicted to grappling hook and dagger 😦

I saw that goo gun could reload whenever just an hour ago and I freaked out because that leaves so much room for creativity, and I've honestly never considered switching more than now with sword getting gutted and how much the devs seem to hate letting light have fun.

[unkempt moss]

Grappling hook should be a heavy spec. Combine it with CnS and make a new one called Wrecking Ball

[glass tinsel]

cries in medium

[unkempt moss]

Thats rhe secret to GooGun, it’s actually your primary.

[slender bear]

Even though I love grapple, I would still trade it instantly for a goo gun or a mini mesh shield or something like that.

[deep mason]

Wreaking ball?

Actually since people dislike winch I suggested it should stop pulling people and help u swing short range and it's slow swinging

[gritty swallow]

K thanks Will check it out

[slender bear]

I would also love if light's melees had something as unique as dual swords' reflection. It seems so cool, but I'm pretty happy with the movement from sword. Dagger's secondary feels completely useless a lot of the time, and the instant kill still feels annoying to fight against, so I really hope they just change dagger's alt to something more interesting (I do like that the secondary can one-shot goo though).

[unkempt moss]

I wanted dual blades on light. I think their blocking would be more impactful on light, plus the gap closers and faster walk speed.

Plus the attack on titan larp with grapple hook would be a dream

[slender bear]

Trading Sword for dual blades with medium. We don't need sword post nerf.

[unkempt moss]

The lunge on medium would be more meaningful anyway. Take sword, add shield, give to heavy.

That or sledge needs a greatsword skin

[slender bear]

Another shield on heavy does seem very fitting. You could run mesh shield, Riot Shield, Shield dome, goo grenades, and barricade and just claim and objective as yours for the rest of the match.

[unkempt moss]

Enter at your own risk

[sturdy cypress]

🙂

[slender bear]

A claymore could go crazy as part of a knight's bundle when they finally do the medieval themed season they were talking about.

[unkempt moss]

Just get me on the skins and balancing team. I’ll take care of the rest. It won’t be esports, but it’ll be fun.

[slender bear]

I feel like most games really do need to have players on the developement team. Players seem to understand more about the general balance of the game than devs do most of the time.

[unkempt moss]

It’s because there’s only so much internal testing you can do.

[serene glade]

But what about Esports

[unkempt moss]

Even if you have a test server, it’s only so much data.

[serene glade]

People want Esports apparently?

[unkempt moss]

Esports are my religion, sensei!

[serene glade]

Please join my $500 prize pool major tournament series

[unkempt moss]

Just like my marriage, I prefer to watch instead of do!

[dusky field]

Np

[placid slate]

Everybody gangster until you see a bhopping sledge heavy approaching you at mach fuck

[deep mason]

Hahah u need to attach upward for a swing(physics based) u don't get much speed @unkempt moss

[placid slate]

Swing implies momentum, which translates to bhopping

Also why the fuck would you not let the grapple hook onto the floor? It's not like it would suddenly be worse to play against than winch

[deep mason]

Then u would need a pull and speed which heavy class isn't balanced with

It would be minimum speed on ground that's not what swinging means

[placid slate]

Je ne comprends pas

[unkempt moss]

Winch should work like a strong lockbolt tether. To geometry or players. Let me swing or hold on to a player. Hold the use button to reel them in.

[main perch]

if you unlocked a twich drop, have steam connected whered o you claim it?

[deep mason]

Broooooo.........
Instead of instantly pulling it should just act as lockbolt plus u can throw players and barrels at players at high speed

[slow linden]

I think it should still insta pull airborne players

[deep mason]

That's rare,maybe happens near jump pads and that's if u can winch them at all

[deep mason]

Maybe be u winch them and u get to throw and reposition them multiple times

[slow linden]

Maybe

[high timber]

is revolver viable in plat+?

[hollow inlet]

you just gonna get cerb to the face or out traded by fcar
if you can headshot 50%+ yeah ig

[slender sierra]

What are people's ideas for nerfing the repeater? Bc to me, if we do a simple damage nerf and make it a three shot for lights, 4 for medium etc. the ttk will make the gun basically useless.
If you diminish the range on the gun it kinda gets rid of the point of having a weapon specifically dedicated to precise long range combat.

I'm open to the idea of the nerf but I haven't heard a practical suggestion yet 🤷‍♂️

[faint silo]

Yeah thats the issue, because nerf range and it's literally just a straight upgrade to the revolver
except time in between shots

[slender sierra]

Yeah that seems like the only option but I really don't see a reason to nerf it in the first place. Everyone complains about not having a powerful medium weapon but then they turn and complain when they actually add one.

[faint silo]

plus the cb actually requires a really hefty amount of skill to use

CB requires aim and precision
Cerberus requires position

[sly girder]

Nerf the fire rate a bit? I don’t know, I think more people need to complain about the Cerberus

Also saying Medium doesn’t have any powerful weapons is straight up bullshit. The FCAR, the Famas, the Pike, do they not exist?

Not to mention the fucken Cerberus

[slender sierra]

Fr, we should be encouraging higher skill weapons to be meta, most medium weapons perform really well if they're in the right hands

[unkempt moss]

People complain the medium doesn’t have a powerful weapon?

[slender sierra]

Yeah I've heard a handful of people complain about that on this channel but I'm sure the majority of people don't agree

[shut bane]

Honestly, game is the most balanced it’s ever been imo

[clever sleet]

expect for the Sword nerf, if you dont agree, u have skill issues.

BRING BACK THE SWORD!!!!!

[hollow inlet]

Every ranked team has 2 mediums running cerb/fcar, pad, defib, goo/glitch
and then a L or H to fill in for utility or another M with the same exact loadout
Mister Sir, that's not balanced, that's just 1 loadout being by far the strongest in the game, but its been since s1 basically so yeah, nothing's changed
nerf sword again tho

[shut bane]

I disagree

[weak kernel]

felt the most balanced to me late last season, Cerb buff was kinda wack, CB-01's a little wack, sword gutting is irrelevant to the meta but still wack

[shut bane]

Was stun gun around last season

[hollow inlet]

oh, my bad then

[weak kernel]

I don't remember if it was late last season or this season that it was taken out

[shut bane]

I think lights only really started to get better at the game once that went away

[hardy dust]

Or bad lights swapped to medium's piss easy arsenal

[hallow leaf]

"Piss easy arsenal" aka light

[weak kernel]

these poor, pitiful sword lights simply don't know what skill is- I, with my high-cap, low TTK hitscan assault rifle that has had its recoil (both physcal and visual) increasingly smoothed or outright removed over time will show them

[hardy dust]

Yeah mb. I forgot that cerb has the highest skill cap in the game

[hallow leaf]

Yeah mb. I forgot that double barrel has the highest skill cap in the game

[subtle jackal]

Revert the sword nerf!
The DB, bow and xp have always been better to use over the sword. (The sword was always more fun for me to use) They lower the damage because it was too op? You have weapons that all basically 1 tap, DB, sniper, dagger and bow. All weapons require somewhat skill to use, but they decide to nerf the sword, plz help me understand the logic!

[clever sleet]

ok bud

[inner lion]

The SR-84 needs it's hip fire nerfed, im sick and tired of lights running around using it as a shotgun with the quick melee combo. If the SR-84 gets perfect hip fire then why is the repeater and deagles so abysmally bad?

[obsidian nexus]

cerb nuff said

[wild dust]

not nuff said, the hitreg on it is garbo sometimes you want a buff or nerf

[serene glade]

server buff

[unkempt moss]

Technically if everyone is using the same thing, it’s perfectly balanced in game.

My repeater getting kinda nasty bruv

[hollow inlet]

except if everyone uses the same thing its because everything is so much worse compared to it
that's the opposite of balanced

[unkempt moss]

The key part of what I said is “in game”

I know it’s at the end of the sentence and it’s hard to get that far, so it’s okay

[rare lake]

reverse sword nerf and take away phantom strike lol

[unkempt moss]

Nah. We only adjust damage values round these parts.

LEEP incoming

[slender bear]

Just realized all of the progression skins for dagger are useless after you get the last dye job, because everything else only paints the handle which is covered by your hand...

[warm meteor]

Do people use the dagger with melee assist on or off? Or is it just preference?

[slender bear]

I don't actually know what melee assist is somehow

[warm meteor]

Melee assist is aim assist on melee which allows it to essentially lock onto a target that you're aiming at

[slender bear]

Oh never mind it's melee aim assist

I have it on

[warm meteor]

Problem is sometimes it can bug out apparently when going for a backstab and cause it to hit the front from what I've seen.

[hardy dust]

Off

On makes it much less consistent (it's generally worth having melee aa off for every melee weapon)

The only thing melee aa is kinda decent (not even worth it anyways) is for qms with non-melees

[warm meteor]

I see

[slender bear]

Hear me out, since the Recurve Bow only has a slight zoom in effect for aiming downsights, what if they made it so the arrows could curve in whatever direction you're turning while aimed down sights. I don't think actual Recurve bows have anything to do with curving shots, but I feel like I could give the weapon it's own character other than "sniper without a scope and hitscan". I'm not sure how it would effect the current playstyle though.

[rich flame]

Heavy and Medium get their own designated Sniper Rifles, what would yall like to see

[slow linden]

Yea

[slow linden]

The only easy weapons on medium right now are cerb(its unbalanced and will probably be changed) and AKM and FCAR

[weak kernel]

levergun's easy as hell dude

[slow linden]

I haven't used it yet I've been enjoying minigun

[hallow leaf]

Imo I don't want to see medium or heavy get a sniper, instead I would like for medium to get a crossbow and heavy to get a ballista or cannon

I would love to see this for heavy

[slow linden]

I think they should Lower the damage a little but make it shoot fast from the hip(levering),they should also make the revolver shoot fast from the hip(fanning)

[slow linden]

Yes

Give me one of the cannons you see on that one map

[hallow leaf]

If your taking about the cb-01, it's damage is fine if anything just give it better hipfire

[rich flame]

I was also thinking Crossbow would be a cool sniper for medium, but also I do think it would be very cool if heavy got a semi-automatic .50 cal like the GM6 Lynx

[slow linden]

I think it's fine too,haven't struggled against it except for one guy that was cheating with it,but many complain of it

[rich flame]

Its gimmick could be penetrating through destructable surfaces and doing bonus damage to placed structures like Turrets and Dome Shields

[hallow leaf]

To be fair the cb-01 has a slower ttk than all the medium ARs

[slow linden]

I'll have to try it to form a better opinion on it

[rich flame]

Imagine how well it would pair with recon gadgets like sonar grenade or motion sensors, encouraging teamwork

[hardy dust]

repeater should just get a fire rate nerf

no damage nerf since even 1 makes med take an extra shot

[hallow leaf]

Repeater is fine, the xp needs a nerf way before the repeater does

[hardy dust]

repeater 100% needs a nerf before xp

[slow linden]

Agreed

[hallow leaf]

That's a wild take

[hardy dust]

xp is actually balanced compared to repeater

[slow linden]

Nah it's honestly fine

[hallow leaf]

Lol, that's crazy the xp is in no way balanced

[hardy dust]

xp is above average but balanced

[hallow leaf]

The XP is broken

[hardy dust]

xp is really good but balanced.

[rich flame]

I wouldn't be suprised if XP is the single most used weapon in the game right now

[hallow leaf]

If the XP is balanced then every other gun needs buffed to be "balanced"

[rich flame]

Its a classic video game SMG that's basically a laser beam with the falloff profile of an AR because those are always super well balanced in every game they feature in yep

[weak kernel]

XP is balanced or close to balanced but same old problem with casual players seething at the high mobility glass cannon being a high mobility glass cannon

definitely light's best weapon right now, definitely strong relative to light's other weapons- but it still loses the 1v1 against every medium gun so idk

[craggy nymph]

i would love a mosin-nagant skin for the repeater
the speedloader would be a bayonet

also while i used to hate cloak lights, now it is completely useless unless against snipers in long-range because of the visibility being so high and the noise, and now it is sneakier to just sneak behind.

also i want back the old dagger

[copper hazel]

just use repeater

but otherwise any other classes would never get sniper probbaly

or it'll be so bad so no one will use it

[ashen hawk]

lights have a whole bunch of shit to use when goig against enemies. meds mostly have stuff thatd help their teammates or mobility. with lights u can use breach, vortex, thermal bore, vanish, gateway, etc. and create so many plays. thats literally why i play them when i do lol

but ofc if ur gonna stand there at a single place and continue firing at a med while being a lil target then ur probably not gonna win unless ur opponent med has ass aim

[unkempt moss]

Lights deserve the Cerberus tbh

[serene glade]

heavies deserve to have a rod rammed up their ass for existing

[unkempt moss]

Embarks way ahead of you, bud.

[serene glade]

holy shit its happening this season!!!!

"ummm bro my favorite strimmer triple stacks and uses mesh shield and has a heal beam on him and he does just fine in high elo"

[lusty raven]

Winch is super bad against people... its hard to hit (but you have 2 chances, when it goes out and then when it returns, which is kinda cool) and if you hit someone, they magdump your face, bcs the "stun" doesnt work most of the time, then you hit them once with the melee and they simply run away, if they are at least somewhat intelligent

BUT! it brings great utility to the team so I love it despite the fact its quite pointless to waste it against people... it works only if you manage to deal damage to them beforehand and they turn their back to you and try to run straight away from you

You can winch dead teammates to cover to revive, circumvent fire and gas laid down on objective when you need to captoor or winch your objective away when someone starts capturing, effectively cancelling their animation... pull in boxes and barrels... move friendly or enemy turrets... is just way too cool for it to be swapped with "Yell, run and destroy a wall or two"... the goo gun is nice, but since the Goo grenade has 2 charges, you can "have goo gun at home", which is still somewhat decent

[craggy nymph]

If you goo successfully and manage a one-shot with a sledgehammer, you will find temprorary true happiness

[lusty raven]

you can oneshot only Light with sledge

[craggy nymph]

I know

But obnoxious lights deserve it, it only makes it more satisfying

[lusty raven]

i mean... there are MANY weapons that oneshot Lights... and to be fair a hammer with like 0.5m range should be the most ok oneshot in game

[craggy nymph]

Did anyone see this?

[lusty raven]

especially since the Heavy is the slowest class so its always up to the Light to approach the sledge wielding Heavy up to the pummeling distance

[craggy nymph]

Yes, but when it works, the heavy can reach enlightnement.

[lusty raven]

ye kinda... to me the sledge is currently the only usable weapon that Heavy has... and it is more tool than weapon, which kinda describes how bad all of their other guns feel like 🫠

[craggy nymph]

I think its an issue that teamfights are rarer now, many lights are just running around

[craggy nymph]

Shak is also good if you just fight one light at a time alone

And the shotgun if you have a good aim (ks)

[lusty raven]

I havent understood the logic behind the Shak... like why does it exist in game? It is a rifle firing .50 rounds irl, which was made to DECIMATE drugged up cantsaythiswordbcsreasons with CQB fully automatic fire....

for some reason in game it "fires multiple bullets per round"

which sounds like shitty shotgun? and from what I have tried on test range, it is basically an M60 with 20 round mag

i was expecting a weapon that would be usable on mid to long range while firing semi automatic or short bursts, while having the potential to unleash absolute hell up close with massive recoil but giant damage... it does neither of those things

so what is the actual purpose of the shak? what niche is it supposed to fill?

[craggy nymph]

it is supposed to fill the need to obliterate Those Who Cloak

[wind folio]

those who cloak:

[craggy nymph]

yes, i mean lights, those little motherfu-

ridiculous things in the finals are what makes the game fun

like the sledgehammer
embark should make it so that lights are almost powerless without their team, and make it so that i dont get level 11 noobs when enemies are emeralds,(i am level 80)

now that i think about it, i never felt the need to nerf anything except cloaks, but they are completely useless now.

[icy forge]

I agree, even if you cannot deal damage to them because they run right after, your mediums can, it works well with my flamethrower support build,the goal is to pull enemies closer to my team to isolate them from their mates or finish off a team, protect my mates and provide info on the enemy teams.

[icy forge]

The matchmaking is ducked, I can't play one match of quick cash without my mates being level 20 and enemies are level 90, Emerald and Ruby on the last 3 seasons. I'm almost level 80 with 400hrs on TheFinals, the guys I am against have at least 700 - 1000hrs and the mates I get have 50. That's annoying

[craggy nymph]

i have the exact same situation, even with the numbers

[icy forge]

It's been like that since season 4 and I just don't understand why it doesn't take in account player level or playtime.

[craggy nymph]

it happened to me at season 5, i think

or at the end of s4

[icy forge]

Same for me, mid/end of S4

[craggy nymph]

maybe we are in the middle of low level and high level ranks

what season did you start in?

[icy forge]

S1 but I stopped playing just before S3 then I played again at the end of S3. I took a one month break a month ago.

[ornate scaffold]

The sensors in TDM. I will have nightmares about that sound. And I only played 3 games. The spam is crazy!

[craggy nymph]

I started ar s3 because i didnt have a capable pc before that

[lusty raven]

such is a life of Heavy player 💪

[icy forge]

Yes

[candid saffron]

yo

[gritty swallow]

Hello

[open oyster]

bufmodel

[obsidian nexus]

GET THE XP BACK IN LINE

like it didnt need the buff, everyone only plays xp54 now. what is going on. get XP54 and cerb BACK in line!

[restive plover]

Is the stunning gun in again?

[obsidian nexus]

triple light running rampant in WT again with triple XP54 permacoining

[icy forge]

No

[fair crane]

When are they gonna add a riot shield skin that's just a tire iron and a car door?

[icy forge]

As a post apocalyptic themed cosmetic, it could be fire, yk, just a rusty door with spiked wire and some bolts holding it together

[shell sonnet]

Id love apocalypse sets

Rifles could be made like virtual extension, but like dusty, with scratches and duct tape maybe

And those have probably the most potential for melee weapons

[jagged pumice]

must be their time of their life

[shell sonnet]

Im booking for getting it as a seasons theme, there were some awesome ideas floating around

Like a big overgrown city, and with a flooded map alternative where heavy rain creates a giant river for fast movement downhill

[icy forge]

Weapons with suppressors get it attached to the gun with duck tape

[shell sonnet]

The DIY supressors made of bottles maybe?

A cotton fabric and duct tape gas mask cosmetic

The long awaited molotov pyro nade

[icy forge]

Yeah or some people use oil filters I heard

[shell sonnet]

Either would probably look rad

[tender rapids]

does anybody else just nopt vibe with the sa1216

[shell sonnet]

There could be no other reason to hold a classic like this back unless they plan on making it a whole season

[icy forge]

A Metro 2033 type outfit would be great. Also for the map, nuclear fallout Moscow would be awesome

[shell sonnet]

I was more looking for a tlou2 seattle style map

[icy forge]

We need an existing city anyway so yeah, maybe a Eastern Europe, cold city could be good or a more stereotypical post apocalyptic city like in Alice in Borderland

[shell sonnet]

Skyscrapers would be really cool

Problem is, if a single one of them falls, the server tanks

How could we make them a possibility?

I was thinking of making a solid, indestructible mesh that breakable walls are attached to

The scaffolding cant fall, but the stuff around it can

Goes a little against the spirit of the game, but for getting an incredibly unique, interesting and potentially hella fun map i think thatd be worth it

[ashen hawk]

nah pretty sure they dont. if u want another shotgun by all means, but the kind of guns they have rn are already really good.

@unkempt moss that down there isnt necessarily for u just fyi
and pls cut me the "light weapons always lose to the med weapons" nonsense thats coming to me, u all know what u do, just go stand there in front of a medium without doing nothing and expect to win by just pure aim as a light.
learn how to make plays, how to use ur abilities. ofc if ur going to let the med hit you ur gonna die. that applies to literally every one else.

most med abilities arent suited for personal use and such tactics. theyre either guarding an area, or helping ur team. lights and heavies have stuff they can use to escape, make ways, destroy stuff, bring ppl closer, which they can use to survive and win. but most of the time a med relies on sheer aim, cuz it doesnt have gateway, barricade, rpg, vanish bomb, grapple, evas dash, winch, or charge. so it needs powerful weapons.

[icy forge]

Make the building fully destroyable except the corners so it cannot collapse but as you said, this type of system is a bit against the DNA of the game

[shell sonnet]

But otherwise were forever incredibly size limited

ooooooor they code it in a way where if an object falls more than x meters, it doesnt calculate colosions/interactions, and jzst falls apart (like how the PS platform destroys them) instead

Should cut down majorly on calculations

Problem would be that we cant have cashouts in buildings like this because they would just be flattened if there is a single cns/sledge heavy

[icy forge]

Yeah, I mean, making a 2000 meters high building by 400-500 meters sides would be awesome but the servers would just overheat

[shell sonnet]

Not that extreme dude 😭

But like, being maybe 2-3 monaco house sized would be awesome

Ziplines between them and everything

[icy forge]

It would be awesome, just imagine, the elevator is at the bottom, you place a ton of mines and barrels, go all the way up and you just slam to the bottom and BOOM no building

[shell sonnet]

Waaaait what if

Theres like skyscrapers in china/japan, that are build alongside a cliff

The look incredibly tall if youre at the base, but barely pass the floor if youre on the cliff

Could that maybe work?

They can each individually only fall to the step theyre on

Illusion of size
Could that work?

[icy forge]

Maybe, I don't know

[unkempt moss]

No, I meant they deserve the Cerberus as a punishment. They deserve to be smoked by it all day every day.

I was salty because I had a lobby of 7 XPs so I posted that. Love watching little light shit heads turn to ash.

[pale quail]

Well, that's part of it. Should be noted that the lower the health pool, the higher the dps should be. Also, the classes are built for different purposes. For example, I used to be pretty good with sword back when it was viable, (no, I didn't phantom strike cause that felt exploit-y to me) and I would always have the highest eliminations on my team. But the game is designed well to be team based. The times I left my mediums alone, they would die, and I would die. But when we coordinated, even though the meds didn't necessarily get as many elims, they'd have high support scores, objective play, and typically get lots of assists. Heavies also play differently, as they're supposed to. Obviously a ranged light should never stop moving/strafing, but saying mediums need better guns than lights would just defeat the purpose of lights. The health pool and team value account very well for the mobility/playmaking of lights

imo Mediums should have consistent, reliable weapons, not necessarily "powerful" ones. That's not what their class is for. This game isn't ffa on krunker.io loll

[sly girder]

Cerberus.

[lusty raven]

anyone ever vibed with the sa? afaik it was always "worse flamethrower"

[shell sonnet]

worse flamethrower?
doesnt it have like the higest dps on heavy?
i think thats what i heard pre nerf, what was changed?

[lusty raven]

i have no idea tbh... ive played in the beta and we started playing like 2 weeks ago again... so I remember it as a somewhat gimmicky weapon that hadnt really worked most of the time

[shell sonnet]

1 less pellet
less fall off to increase damage at slightly longer ranges
adjusted spread to make up for the lost pellet slightly

[lusty raven]

and I dont remember seeing it once since we started playing again...

[shell sonnet]

did whatever made you leave get fixed?

[lusty raven]

oh we left bcs the meta was EXTREMELY boring

and bcs we rose to unplayable ranks, while we simply couldnt compete anymore... so we stopped and agreed to wait until they introduce more ways to play...

id say that the meta rn is definitely somewhat better... I used to play the support medium with grenade launcher, which was quite bad, but you could remedy the insufficient GL damage by using explosive mines... this doesnt work anymore, but it feels that the grenade launcher is a bit stronger by itself (especially against lights, that need just 2 rounds) ... playing Heavy feels extremely punishing compared to the beta... its basically a freekill for any medium or light, BUT! it has very cool gadgets, which can easily turn the tide of battle... so even though it feels bad playing as a heavy, and you are pulling your team down most of the game, you can definitely turn the game around with one or two outplays...

back then the AKM ruled the lobbies and 3 mediums with defibs ran rampant... especially on higher levels, you couldnt really compete against that... they were slow to reach objective, but they simply walked into the room guns blazing and annihilated anything that stood in their paths...

nowadays it feels much more tame... and even if we meet 3M teams with defibs, there is definitely way to play around them...

[serene glade]

Slow to reach the objective? They have the 2 movement gadgets

[lusty raven]

when I started playing, I mainly used Light with M11, which was strong enough to wipe Heavy AND Medium on one mag, if you managed to flank them and start blasting from 0 distance... it got nerfed hard, so I had to find different playstyle, but what Ive tried now, the Ingram feels good again...

[serene glade]

I'm just gonna accept this games balance will never be close to being good and I'm gonna just run at people with the sledgehammer and accept my punishment like a good little boyim

[lusty raven]

Well yes, but intelligent team lays down some obstacles when defending... 3M teams had 0 breaching potential (they have now, bcs Demat) could have been hampered by gas or fire and goo took them some time to chew through...

[shell sonnet]

yeah, cl-40 had quite the rollercoaster of rebalances, im happy with where it is now
especially how aps got changed around it

i hope the changes are enough to make you stick around, its always nice to get a few more people

[lusty raven]

thank god I missed it... I stopped playing when it was reasonably ok and came back when it is definitely playable

[ashen hawk]

oh lmao my bad i thought u said they should give the cerberus to lights pretty much like almost every light rn

[lusty raven]

the mine rework is kinda sad... to me it increased the skill ceiling with the weapon, which imho is the coolest shit about the finals... its not like any other fps where you force learn a few recoil patterns and that is the single defining factor if you are going to be good at the game or not (I am looking at you CS:GO)... you can use different approach when it comes to killing the other teams and I am all for it... reminds me of TF2

[shell sonnet]

but it was kinda needed
the og mine nerf down from 150 dmg absolutely

the mine stacking was annoying, it wasnt a must go, but im glad thats gone too tbh

[ashen hawk]

exactly. but i never said mediums need better guns that lights, they alr have really good guns. im just disagreeing with ppl crying about mediums every now and then and that they destroy lights and whatnot. Sorry to say, but thats just big skill issue. And the whole game is built around teamplay, lights were supposed to be frag class, mediums support class, and heavies the obj and tank class. and they still are. So saying that mediums have a higher dps is just way wrong.

Good to know that u didnt use the sword exploit, finally a sane human

[shell sonnet]

or do you mean pocket sand?

[ashen hawk]

mine stacking was basically just two incredibly loud and easy-to-spot explosives on the ground. Every time youd try to tell them this theyd change the subject and continue whining.

How does one "accidentally" step on a mine?? and if you do make a mistake, thats not even the mine's problem. Its YOUR problem.

all im trying to say is that 150 dmg or even highher is completely fine for something u can counter by moving away from it. and its not anything like invis or charge and slam that you might be to busy or distracted by something to react fast enough.

[shell sonnet]

its not anything like invis or charge and slam that you might be to busy or distracted by something to react fast enough.
i have no idea what kind of enemies youre playing against, but some people actually put them around corners, on top of stairs, behind doors, etc.
forcing people to take it slow in a fast paced game, and punishing them with instant death is not fun

but judging by your distinct viewpoint on people that share this opinion i doubt trying to talk about it is gonna go very far