💣┇weapons-gadgets

[outer flint]

I wouldn’t mind a visual indicator on screen tho

[bronze cedar]

Maybe I'm the one unlucky person in the world that often just insta-dies to the nearly invisible and soundless grenades while playing medium.

[outer flint]

Not to mention this is assuming that both frags land almost directly under the mediums feet, which in most cases after the first one goes off that won’t be happening.

[outer flint]

You should probably turn your headset up

[shadow elm]

And by technicality 1 frag can’t kill a light in one shot. It would have to land directly on the light and blow up on them. It’s only happened to me once in my time playing.

[bronze cedar]

It technically can't, but losing at least 1 HP to anything in the game is the easiest thing you can do, even while not trying intentionally.

[shadow elm]

Stupidly enough it can… there is a super small radius of the explosion that deals 150. That radius is basically touching the frag itself. Everywhere else it only deals 149. I didn’t learn this till like 3 weeks ago.

[fleet brook]

Sky nadding?

[outer flint]

Sky nading? Like throwing grenades from above your opponents?

[fleet brook]

Old apex term but basically using the air as a primer for your grenade

So when it falls it immediately triggers on your opponent

[outer flint]

Well I haven’t played apex so I don’t understand what that means

[fleet brook]

Nah your fine but same process with a little difference for the finals that way when the nade lands there's no rolling

[bronze cedar]

Maybe I'm just unlucky, because for me it's always "1 grenade right before your face, the second is right behind" and i litteraly can do nothing in this situation except of dying.

[shadow elm]

I always throw a nade then if I get hit markers I throw another

[bronze cedar]

I think it's bad that such combination is possible for 1 person. Yesterday I just blown 2 people to the moon with a pair of frags while I haven't even saw them, it is so dumb and unfair to be in such a situation.

[shadow elm]

Eh but it’s a good use of map knowledge and game sense. Most people won’t just randomly throw frags so if you think a person is there and throw it. It’s a display of skill.

[dull abyss]

Does anybody have a good idea for a gun skin for any gun in game, I can try to make your idea

[bronze cedar]

A Nerf gun version of Pike 556, it litteraly has the same performance at the moment.

[shadow elm]

Give me a burrito CL-40

[bronze cedar]

Then why other gadgets don't have the same effectiveness if you use them well? The funniest thing is that explosive mine, that requires more map knowlege and enemy stupidity performs worse then frag nade in the same situation.

[fleet brook]

Tbf If a window is open to the cash out area I'll chuck them in

[shadow elm]

Circumstance. Are you using mines to actively get kills while in combat or while setting up for defense? Frags are used mid combat or as an opener.

[bronze cedar]

Even as a defense tool, mines in this game perform quite poorly due to the fact that they require nearly direct contact with them to trigger.

[shadow elm]

That’s why you need to put them in certain spots. @raw crescent can attest that I am a wiz with the pyro mines. It’s all about placement and understanding of where the enemy is going.

[raw crescent]

Pyro mines work with c4 combo.

[bronze cedar]

The only effective way to use them in combat was to stack two explosive mines in the doorway while kiting your opponent so he could be blown up, but for some reason this combo was nerfed to the ground.

[shadow elm]

Yeah cause mines are not supposed to be used in active combat

[fleet brook]

Tbf mines aren't very punishing for running into unless you play light

[shadow elm]

You would be surprised what a pyro can do to a unsuspecting medium

[fleet brook]

laughs in demat

[shadow elm]

Laughs in ability to shoot people

[fleet brook]

Well usually I'm ice fishing or coordinating a ice fish with my team

[outer flint]

Pyro mines can do some pretty good damage

[bronze cedar]

I found out that LH-1 deals more headshot damage then Pike-556. Looks like devs forgot to increase headshot multiplier for Pike when they nerfed it's base damage.

[olive olive]

That... Explains something I saw recently when using the pike

[bronze cedar]

If they will make it deal 52 damage this gun will be so much better. At the moment it feels too uncomfortable to use.

[vale obsidian]

@bronze cedar no one should do as much burst damage as light never mind medium
burst damage is what make model op so don't give meds another op gun

[bronze cedar]

This gun is doing less damage then other AR's of medium, what are you talking about? If you think that is too much then they might decrease rof or increase recoil of that thing. It's just funny that "sniper weapon" can't outdamage anything even on longer ranges.

[fleet brook]

This smells of a light player

(Mostly joking but I've noticed light players hate any decent burst option that isn't there's

[vale obsidian]

in my lobby people goes for headshot
sometime i survive doing nothing but every other time half my heath disappear

[fleet brook]

As a light?

[vale obsidian]

i don't play light too often but when it dose happen to me its really annoying

gotta wait another 7 sec to start refilling my health before playing the game again

[fleet brook]

Yes half your HP dissapers in a headshot because you only have 150 of it

[vale obsidian]

great observation shurlock
yeah i know light should be 2 shotted by big bursty weapon but its so got damn annoying

[fleet brook]

When I'm playing power shift or (generally against a good light)

Half my HP dissapers in less than second and even if I win I have to wait awhile to play the game

Everyone had to wait to play the game after damage unless you have a heal beam med (which was nerfed)

[vale obsidian]

i guess im just mad

[outer flint]

Because light has low health, but in turn for having low health light also has the highest dps, and the fastest health regeneration in the game, it has to be like that so it’s balanced.

[vale obsidian]

i might have light air head syndrome form playing too much light someone please save me

[deft rune]

the hit box for backstab damage is quite possible the most broken mechanic in the game. All a light has to do is dash through you and release RMB and they do max damage. unbelievable that it hasn't been patched yet

[faint steppe]

Melee hitboxes in general are insanely broken in this game. The same dude was probably responsible for giving Winch a lingering hit box

[vale obsidian]

for you, the backstab always somehow hit your back
for that light, the backstab always somehow miss

do with that infomation as you like 🍻

[fleet brook]

I'll equipped for medium to long range what is the wiki on

[vapid frost]

That was called akiba step or smth like that idk, but it isnt on the game anymore, you have to turn your camera and time the hit for it to work

[burnt crescent]

-wiki This is not the official wiki, this is.

[raven finch]

**Want to learn more about THE FINALS? **

Our wonderful community has been hard at work on the Wiki page.
Visit it here: https://www.thefinals.wiki/wiki/Main_Page

It's fully community-built - maybe you can contribute your own knowledge soon!
Head to #📂┇the-finals-wiki to learn more.

[warm gyro]

Lights are supposed to deal more dps than any other class though because of their low health. But I get what you mean pike shouldn’t have been nerfed to the ground

[gleaming ledge]

I'm working my way up in world tour, I'm top 35,000. I use the lh1 but not sure what gadgets to run. You guys think you can tell me?

[bronze cedar]

Frag, glitch nade, maybe stun gun or vanish bomb.

[dapper mountain]

What do I do with a riot shield when I get attacked by a sledge hammer

[gleaming ledge]

Thx

[shell sonnet]

has anyone seen any weird or cool uses for goo lately?

[keen gale]

I've been playing the Winch more. But I've been noticing that instead of pulling people to me, they go too far and end up getting yeeted behind me.
Is this a bug? Or a counter or something?

they also don't always seem to stop firing while winched

I just wanted to winch a heavy who was half health, but he ended up flying out of the window behind me

[covert parcel]

jumppad or you died half way thru the winch animation causing them to fly

[keen gale]

Hmmm... in my cases, neither of the two

And it's happened a few times over different matches

But good to know that jumppad is a counter

[keen gale]

Ah, clipped it and I think I start spinning before he's fully pulled in. And that's maybe why they keep their momentum and fly behind me

[covert parcel]

if ur using the spear its a bug i think

the alt attack just chucks anything thats not nailed down around

[keen gale]

Ah, oki

[static lodge]

Its way deeper than that, lights capable of doing it consistently have LOTS of trial and error to get to that point.

Also you vant dash through people.

[toxic plover]

Pray. Don't attack them 1v1. And in worse case scenario... Try crouching and sliding diagonally past him between his swings

[tranquil torrent]

I propose a change to the cl-40 where if you hit yourself without hitting another player the self damage inflicted is decreased compared to shooting yourself and another player. Similarly to how Soldier in TF2 functions.

[shadow onyx]

Hope they shoot you in the shield with their rpg and damage themselves

[dapper mountain]

I meant the hammer part but this is actually kind of helpful

[shadow onyx]

In a 1v1 I think it's basically impossible to win unless the heavy somehow misses one of their shots. You have to rely on your team or on getting damage in at range or before the fight which is hard considering they have stuff like rpg, charge, winch, etc.

[toxic plover]

Damn guess my advice was ass

[dapper mountain]

Yours was helpful

Ig youre kind of just cooked if that happens

[toxic plover]

Yeah shield doesn't reduce melee damage the way sword does

[dapper mountain]

Sword.reduces it?!

[toxic plover]

Sword can litteraly stall a heavy sledge long enough for your team to beam him, and if he trys to run you can cut his ass up

[dapper mountain]

That's op

Riot gets pounded

[toxic plover]

Riot actually stopped bullets and can nullify flashbangs if you block though

[dapper mountain]

Uses flashes aggressively goes so hard

I watch them walk into a wall and then murder them

[toxic plover]

Fucking hate flashbangs-a sledge heavy

[toxic plover]

What I said about beeming a sledge heavy still applys if you do nothing but block. That applys to my too though, you can't block both me and my teammates bullets if you goes slightly to your side.

[pastel fog]

ive heard alot from people saying that model 1887 is the best weapon for medium when it comes to versatility, esepcially if you can hit your shots and it just makes me wonder how come noone uses it if its so good, its rare if i seee anyone

[toxic plover]

Famas is the most versatile

[toxic plover]

Someone argue with me

[plain wasp]

I am killed by it frequently

And usually the teams with it are the ones winning

[native hamlet]

AIO Stat charts updated as of 1/4/2025:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kn__IxrPr68M_pRhLHqhvGK6nlwUnCtFaXWGk1pVgg0/edit

[plain wasp]

AIO? Am I overreacting?

[hallow leaf]

Some of the information on that is just wrong, for starters it doesn't list burn damage for Cerberus and second the damage for dual blades is just wrong

[native hamlet]

Someone shared the link with me

https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/kjUOECJJy2

[hallow leaf]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ud7Rdl3AgMw9mmfDwW2LtDMnzZQ9IIhnqSE4ivsaMTs/edit?pli=1&gid=2136619021#gid=2136619021

This one is better but even this one has dual blades listed incorrectly

This one's the final attack is listed as 65 damage but it's damage is actually 70

[native hamlet]

Honestly, I don’t mind errors as long as I get the general idea from it

[hallow leaf]

Yeah, that's why I said zaffers is better at least it shows the damage as it should be

[toxic plover]

So spear and sledge can crit?

[hallow leaf]

What? Did you even read the damage chart?

And no they can't crit that's why I said the other one is bad, man I wish your brain actually functioned

[vale mulch]

💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

[toxic plover]

Wish you could go fuck yourself I was busy up at work

[modern citrus]

Dual blades are still garbage but I have them at level 6 and I want to be the only person with level 9 dual blades so please keep them bad thx

[bright tiger]

thou shall not, I am already level 9

[modern citrus]

Brother ⚔️

Lead me to the slaughter

[uneven kindle]

Rip your teammates

[viral drum]

Does anyone play controller with back paddles? What uses could they have?

[wheat tulip]

Is the new cerberus 12 guage any good?

[weak kernel]

only comparable thing I've really used is steam deck but generally anything you might have on face buttons that you want to access without taking your thumb off the stick is a good choice for back buttons- i usually put movement stuff like crouch and jump on them so the shoulder buttons and triggers are free for their usual functions

[weak kernel]

IMO it's good with the caveat that you have to get into very close range for medium and not miss for it work- I can't imagine running it without the mobility demat offers

[plain wasp]

I use my paddles as the two bumpers and I can just dash and shoot at the same time

[rough drift]

Bow, throwing knives, or the matter

[outer flint]

Shak 50

[shut bane]

Yes very

But it takes a different play style to the model, mac is right in that demat does make it much easier to move around but even without it you will make it work if you know how to shmoove

[pine dew]

The CL 40 is just not a weapon worth using maybe take it out of the game?

[vague verge]

its not overpowered to just remove it?

The Ks23 sucks so should we just remove that weapon too?

[lost pivot]

Ability left paddle crouch, right paddle

[faint steppe]

The KS is actually pretty damn good especially with Winch. Also don't underestimate how powerful its destruction capabilities can be

[vague verge]

it has a lot of utillity, but compared to other weapons it falls short

I personally have a better time with the deags which are very similar, but they can headshot and dont have awful bullet velocity

[faint steppe]

I don't agree but it's definitely more of a team weapon. Being able to hit for 100 on a body shot can be extremely powerful and prepping walls to destroy them in one shot can be extremely powerful for defending your cashout. It's definitely a niche weapon but I do think it has its place.

[hallow current]

If each class is going to have 3 assault weapons what should be the 3rd automatic weapon the Medium and the Light class get since Heavy got the Shaquille O'Neil 50

[covert parcel]

akimbo glocks light
jungle mag ? medium

whatever looks flashy

[zenith edge]

Buff the dome shield

[outer flint]

It’s already really good, definitely doesn’t need a buff

[hallow current]

We don't need to go back to the MMH meta again.

Mediums can't do anything against Heavies and lights would need to get a buffed glitch nade.

Embark is good at shaking things up and making new things happen in their game so let's not back track and let's buff something else in the Heavy category.

[rough drift]

Which one do I get

[lavish plover]

Glitch nade

[narrow plinth]

Glitch or thermal bore

[lavish plover]

Glitch you already have breach charges plus your job isnt destruction its disruption

[narrow plinth]

No I was telling him what one to get

[mystic nimbus]

gateway is a must pick for light

[lavish plover]

Mb point still stands

[narrow plinth]

Ya

[lavish plover]

That too.

[mystic nimbus]

then stungun

[lavish plover]

NO!

[mystic nimbus]

yes

[rough drift]

Yeah I was thinking gateway glitch or stun just wasn’t sure

Going with glitch

[mystic nimbus]

it's annoying but we're already struggling against heavy specializations so we need smth to balance the scale

[mystic nimbus]

i mean if u play casual then whatever but if u want to get better then u must equip gateway all the time

except the final round in wt and ranked (3v3)

[rough drift]

Ahh ok

[lavish plover]

How could we buff spear.

[rough drift]

😭

[shut bane]

Give it a javelin throw instead of a weeb out moment

[narrow plinth]

What would be the best light setup console player runs m11

[scenic crane]

Yo I need help pls so I get like 17 kills per much right I main the bow what is the best gadget to mix with thst

[reef glade]

I've been using tracking dart for solo queue
Thermal is good for when none of your team have wall destruction. Stun gun is good for melee playstyle
Glitch is for when you see a team abusing shields and heals

[plain wasp]

Breach charge helps a lot trust

I've been using it instead of frags

Along with vortex and gateway

[mystic nimbus]

it does

depends on the play style tho

[plain wasp]

Shooting down at them through the ceilings then chasing to above where they run and blowing up the ceiling above them is the best

Also helps with the cashout defense because it's not easy to steal a falling cashout

[sour sonnet]

when i mained bow i used dash frag sonar and thermal

[vague epoch]

i used grappler pyro gas and thermal bore

[scenic crane]

Thx I will be try them both out

[toxic plover]

If they add a greatsword to heavy class what's it's special gonna be guys

[arctic fog]

Prob a big swing that hits in a circle around the heavy

[toxic plover]

Okay so I like that, but I don't think it's different enough from spear unless it's single input single swing unlock spears animation lock crap

[arctic fog]

I think the single input would make more sense and be way less janky

Also allows for more cool combos

[toxic plover]

I can only imagine the clips. So would it swing 360° or just a horizontal arc the way a light sledge attack does?

[arctic fog]

I think 360 for the special and the primary would be maybe a 3 hit combo that goes swing, swing, slam/jab

[toxic plover]

Okay okay and how about it's damage? What do you think it should be

[arctic fog]

The attacks will probably be slower than sledgehammer because it's a heavy great sword so maybe the primary will do like 100-100-120 (because of the slam or jab at the end) and the special will do like 130-150 with an even longer charge up time

I'm not quite sure if that's balanced

[toxic plover]

great sword

parry mechanic
does an upward slash (opposite of sledge direction)
while holding parry teammates can use as a portable launch pad
to balance have a stamina meter for parry (block meter)
momentum based slashing (longer time swinging faster it attacks) (first 4-5 swings, the speed increases then stays at max speed for 15-25 more swings)

4 special attacks to destroy wall. Special attacks take 2 seconds from start up of parry pose.
while parrying blocks 25% of dmg
35 dmg for primary swing (maybe less dmg per swing)
250 dmg for secondary (charged upwards slash)

Me and members of the community came up with this. What do you think?

Tbh I'm okay with a slower greatsword, even if it's slower than the sledge, but then it still needs to be able to one shot lights with its special

@unborn frigate something really really cool would be that in special attack summon a APS sphere during parry

[arctic fog]

A parry attack on a melee weapon would be awesome

[polar obsidian]

What you favorite gun

[toxic plover]

Throwing sledge

[toxic plover]

I think so too bro. It should auto one shot anyone that hits it lmfao

[arctic fog]

or like a stunning effect

[toxic plover]

Yeah though would be cool too. I made a joke about when you parry the dagger back stab god and he sees his life flash before his eyes

[toxic plover]

Do you think the APS effect would be too much or should that be for like a medium melee weapon

[arctic fog]

more of a medium weapon i think

[toxic plover]

Fuck it. Double shields for medium

Blocking damage gives shield to you and teammates and makes a APS aura

@unborn frigate I have a idea and I need your opinion

[toxic plover]

I'll take your input too

Retractable flail. 95 damage up close per hit, 75 damage +destroys walls on impact on ranged attack. Similar distance to winch

@arctic fog

[arctic fog]

retractable huh?

[toxic plover]

Yesss. So you got ranged attacks and close range too

[warm jackal]

I think we should give Med-builds Tommy for their machine-gun

[serene hull]

Would there be a difference in power from the two modes

[cosmic oriole]

one of these things is not like the other

[toxic plover]

Yeah the short range attack does 95 damage and is faster and the long range attack is a little slower, does 75 damage a hit, but does more structural damage

[serene hull]

Little guy

[serene hull]

It it a hit per second for the first form?

[toxic plover]

Let's say it swings as fast as the riot shield for the close range attacks

[serene hull]

And how much for the other one

[toxic plover]

Ig imagine winchclaw but it shoots faster but comes back just as fast as regular winch

Kinda making it up as I go at this point and would appreciate some ideas/criticism

[unborn frigate]

nah would be pretty busted

[unborn frigate]

cool idea

[toxic plover]

Lmao you think so? Lights can already dodge the winch so your bound to miss some ranged attacks

[toxic plover]

Thanks bro

[spring grotto]

How about…. Red dot for the pike and some attention to the weapons that don’t get enough .

[toxic plover]

Pike recoil is so ass I be lucky to see one pike user per day

[toxic plover]

Does RPG do 100 damage or 140

[loud shale]

I believe it's 100.

Used to be 150 -> 140 -> 100

[restive plover]

Used to be 140, now it's 100.

[toxic plover]

Sad

[restive plover]

Not at all.

[toxic plover]

Thx

[toxic plover]

Frags do way more damage than RPG does and you get two and they respawn quicker

[restive plover]

They also aren't even remotely as reliable.

RPG is still an incredible pick tool and remains hard meta.

[toxic plover]

True, but that's because there other tools are lacking not because RPG is game breaking

[restive plover]

I didn't say it was, it's alright now.

[loud shale]

I think the RPG and grenades are fine. What needs a fix/adjustment, is the hitbox with the knife. So many face backstabs.

[restive plover]

That's a latency thing, on their screen they got you in the back.

[loud shale]

I understand latency plays a part, but if you see the character swing in front of you I don't think you should have died. The hitbox just seems wonky. Maybe worse than TF2 back in the day.

https://youtu.be/_XFhe9z0JMU

Here's a clip of what I'm sort of talking about. YouTube compressed the clip, so unfortunately some frames are lost (making it harder to see).

https://ibb.co/GsLwH8p

Here he is 1 frame before death.

[modern citrus]

They're fine with it.

[wheat quiver]

Hello,
I'm quite new to the game and was wondering which weapon is better for ranked between V9S, XP-54 and Double barrel shotgun ?
Any advice ?

[worn yarrow]

depend on what special ur using

DB is good with cloak. if youre using dash the V9S and XP with both work well. which of the two youre better with at that point

personally i say XP

its the most well rounded of the three IMO but the V9S can def get the job done

with the DB you have to play around the DB. you will have to change ur play style to get the most value out of DB.

[wheat quiver]

Thanks for the advices.
I like V9S the most and i usually play with cloak in ranked.
The DB gameplay seems fun, but i dont know if it more effective than à V9S

[fleet brook]

It feels lack luster for what it's designed for and is only a kill finisher which is only up after 2 respawn cycles effectively

[potent jungle]

As a dagger player: There wont be any backstab that you hit from front. The dagger can even give you a normal hit if you hit your backstab too high or out of a jump. Playing dagger is already hard enough, there shouldn’t be a nerf

[alpine stirrup]

Started playing this game 2 days ago and looking for advice on the best loadout as a Medium build, I currently play FAMAS/Pyro/HealGun and looking to upgrade

[wispy panther]

spectating a player will greatly skew how things look. I have had friends spectate me while on dagger and they say what they see is like a different planet from when I show them a clip from my POV. This maybe has something to do with how the servers prio the attacker(?)... not sure the exact reason and I wish we had death replays. I also have probably 2 dozen ss's and clips of me stabbing someone clearly from behind and not getting a backstab. Definitely some unknowns looming.

[cosmic oriole]

chair pile strat

[wheat quiver]

Is the DB shotgun competitive in ranked ?

[cosmic oriole]

idk but ive seen ppl use it

[wheat quiver]

Do you know what weapons are for ranked ?

[next lichen]

just abuse lh1 cuz its the most broken weapon, hoping for a nerf soon

[wheat quiver]

To be honest, i don't like this weapon, i'm bad with it, it's a me problem. I'm looking for another competitive option

[covert swift]

its not great but its usable (just use the v9s)

[wheat quiver]

So the v9s is competitive ? More than the DB ? Good to know 🫡

[covert swift]

in my experience at least (everyones playstyles are different)

[wheat quiver]

It's always nice to have multiple opinions

[restive plover]

Are there secrgadgets to be unlocked?

[boreal laurel]

Hard to “upgrade” from the FAMAS honestly—it’s been quietly very strong since release. AK is easier, but FAMAS is a little stronger if you get good at aiming. If you’d rather be a close-quarters sweat, 1887 and Cerberus are good picks, or revolver if you’re the king of headshots.

As for other gear, I would say take at least one movement gadget (jump pad or zip line), one support gadget (motion sensor, goo grenades, or maybe APS), and one offensive grenade. I don’t encourage using defibs because a manual revive is stronger now. As for specs, demat is best overall IMO. Only use heal beam if you’re a dedicated team player (in which case respect 🫡)

[full quest]

how should i build my heavy class

[restive plover]

Whats a gadget that makes heavy faster

[dim carbon]

Grav cube has some hidden mobilities to it, like if you slide into it you beam up a bit faster

[dim carbon]

Build it how you want to have fun with it, but for me lately, I've been doing pretty well with
Bubble Shield; Flamethrower; Lockbolt; Grav. Cube; Motion Sensor

[alpine stirrup]

Very insightful, thanks a lot 🙏🏻

[atomic heath]

What should I run on my load out for medium

And reserve

[atomic heath]

I think the Ak is better all around good at long range and close

[silk jungle]

i really dislike that the taser shakes around your scope. Just seems unnecessary with all the other things it already does.

Just generally one of the most unfun gadgets out there. Not unbalanced, but unfun.

[shell sonnet]

Ive been noticing the shaking a lot lately, especially with the shak
I agree its unfun, but i also think its unbalanced
At least in certain scenarios

If you run sh1900 with it, lights become free kills
So does melee, unless you happen to run point blank weapons yourself as well

Getting killed should not be this uninteractive

[silk jungle]

My thoughts exactly. It's just so anticlimactic to just sit there and watch. Recently i've played a lot of melee and some cqb sniping too. especially with the sniper aiming is just terrible which gives you even less of a chance of clutching that 1v1, without normal movement and dashes.

[shell sonnet]

Question is, what should it do instead?

Im kind of a fan of the cashbox joinking/steal denial, as it gives light a pretty good defensive option

But ive also been spitballing some ideas around a single person glitch nade with extended duration before...
(As in, it just sets all abilities on cooldown, so that certain abilities that recharge quickly like dash are back somewhat quickly again)

Do you have any ideas?

One thing i was particulerly curious about was making it stop gadgets instead of specials

[covert swift]

is it me or does every light that uses the stun gun not know what to do after stunning you and just jump around until you kill them

[shell sonnet]

Almost very single special in the game can counter stun gun
(Exception being medium, who will likely be fine due to the defensive nature of their melee weapons, and cloak lights, where you could argue they shouldnt be found by another light in the first place)

[covert swift]

hipfiring on the pike actually isnt terrible (not at point blank range at least)

[outer flint]

Flamethrower is a lot of fun to use it kinda sucks tho, the ttk isn’t all that great.

[covert swift]

all you need is the shak and the dome shield

[shell sonnet]

It would fix the "just use xyz" issue that forces you to run items you dont like

And it would be more effevtive, since theyre accessable at a single button press
Rather than needing to pull out, (potentially prime) and then throw as gadget

[outer flint]

Or we could just remove it’s ability to stop specials and not make it stop gadgets either

Stun gun shouldn’t be just a free kill

[shell sonnet]

Imo, stopping steals, stealing boxes and making an enemy a still target is already fairly strong

Should be fine imo

[outer flint]

Someone suggested that you should have to hold the stun gun to keep stunning them, but make it stun for longer than it does.

[shell sonnet]

Maybe there is a better solution we should look for
But its not like weve done bandaid fixes before that ignore the actual issue

Good enough is good enough
If its not painful to play anymore, that will do for a while

[shell sonnet]

Not sure if that might screw with the cashbox stealing

And it would be a bit boring for both user and victim, as they both wait for someone else to do something

But i guess at least they need to coordinate

Only "free" kills if you run into a 2v1 on your own
Which you are likely not winning anyways

Fair enough in my book
(But would obviously need testing)

[outer flint]

Well you would have to keep line of sight to hold the stun gun on them, so you would be able to get shot while not being able to do anything

I think it would work great, it would prevent people from using the stun gun as a free kill gadget, while also keeping its utility.

[shell sonnet]

Not sure why my brain auto filled "neither can attack" into that

Im afraid that if it worked like this, some people would complain about it
Even if i like it

Personally, id rather have something be underpowered than overpowered

Worst case, stun gun feels bad and you miss out on 1 potentially fun item
Meanwhile currently, it shuts down an entire category of weapons

To me its pretty clear what should be prioritised

[trim chasm]

What is the best counter to heavys with winch and sledgehammer?

[torn tide]

Evasive dash on light

[trim chasm]

What about on medium?

Cuz I keep coming up against double heavy winch teams in ranked and i main medium

[torn tide]

Uh, demat semi works, if you get chased by a heavy demat the floor under them

It allows you to survive longer, regen health and get extra damage in, but only works if your fighting in buildings

[shell sonnet]

but keep in mind that a light can be combo-1-shot
so dont be suprised if you die outright anyways

[trim chasm]

It's really difficult on maps like Kyoto or fortune stadium cuz it's mostly ground floor fights

[shell sonnet]

a lot of people recommend certain items, but i find all of them kind of flawed
winch should be reworked imo

[torn tide]

Fortune stadium has a lot of buildings tho

[trim chasm]

And I don't know whether I should be running model, fcar or famas

[trim chasm]

Yes but when you claim cash boxes and the fights take place outside I don't know what to do

[shell sonnet]

funnily enough i loved dagger during season 3
cant be winched if they die before they notice you
but thats a rather limited playstyle

[torn tide]

Sledge hammer are always better to plays against than a heavy with a gun, but you always have to pay attention, or else you will get destroyed

[torn tide]

All of them are good, use the one you do the best with or like the most

[trim chasm]

Are there certain maps where I should run a specific gun?

[torn tide]

There probably is

Like Kyoto is very open long rage weapons do really well on them, but all weapons still kinda do work

[trim chasm]

I feel like maps like vegas with lots of opportunities to take height would be better suited to running the famas or fcar but I find it harder to actually get kills with the famas, it feels like I'm just hitting them for damage with no end result

[torn tide]

Your prob jus t better with fcar

[trim chasm]

Ok

Thank you, this has been very helpful

[torn tide]

Your welcome

[covert swift]

how it feels to teabag a light player who stungunned you but died bc they dont know how to use it:

[tired minnow]

Is the ks a shotgun

[outer flint]

no

[tired minnow]

It's counting as shotgun damage

[outer flint]

Obviously, it’s a shotgun lol

How did you not know the ks was a shotgun

[wind lintel]

ks-23m made by russia, it also shoot buckshot

[blissful vault]

Once i got tebag by a light using throwing knifes and cloack, before he would finish another enemy came and killed him with the medium grenade launcher and then proceeded to teabag them, since that day the medium and i are friends

[spiral anchor]

Does anyone know if you can combo the goo gun with sledge hammer I've been trying the goo launcher and am trying to use it to stop someone so I can hit them is there a better combo with the googun

[toxic plover]

Winch is better. Use goo grenades in a pinch

[spiral anchor]

Is there a way of using the googun for weapon assist

Any weapon

[soft lichen]

You can block people off and kill with sledgehammer

[spiral anchor]

I guess, but it does leave something to be desired because there is a stun that happens after hitting them with goo, I want to try using the flamethrower

[shell sonnet]

you can technically kill using goo gun by sticking an enemy with it while using a bounce pad above a pit

[toxic plover]

It's incredibly difficult to use goo gun for sledge kills because the actual projectile is slow as Christmas and tiny

[shell sonnet]

only if you engage directly
a flank heavy that appears out of nowhere and 1-shots you can be scary as shit

goo flanking is really fun if you can get it down

[spiral anchor]

I will be practicing my goo flanking

[sacred stratus]

i cant let shoulder charge go lol

[shell sonnet]

did anyone happen to find/see any interesting goo tech lately?
trying to collect some

[outer flint]

If you’re gonna use flamethrower I’d definitely recommend winch over goo

[spiral anchor]

I like shoulder dash but I'm a cosmetic horder and am trying to max out all my abilities

[sacred stratus]

makes sense

[outer flint]

Charge and slam is alright too for flamethrower, but I’d say winch is the superior option over any other specialization, it obviously varies from person to person tho, some prefer goo gun some prefer CNS and some prefer winch

[gilded kraken]

which spec is the best for heavy with shak-50?

[shell sonnet]

i posted a vomit of goo tech a while ago
incomplete, not proof read and idk how readable it is

wanna know some tech anyways?

[outer flint]

You could go with CNS or mesh shield

[spiral anchor]

CNS??? The hackers?

[shell sonnet]

i should probably finish that tbh, i love procrastinating

[outer flint]

Charge n slam

[spiral anchor]

Oh

[spiral anchor]

Sure why not

I meant the other one

[shell sonnet]

here

i have a small list of stuff im missing, hold on

-goo air breaking
-turret blinding
-demat
-goo leashing
-goo jumping (jump pad) (for long range)
-catching a cashout (jump pad/grav cube) (<-may be added already)
-sky cover
-goo tripper against sword lights
-you can block the alien invasion projectiles by shooting their gun
-bonk head during low grav tech
-shooting goo out window, onto a wall, to climb on and reach the next floor
-throwing goo canister out of broken window to make a ledge to grab onto and climb onto next floor with
-container jank
-dynamite fishing
-(Movement-) vault locking
-Blocking off paths and hiding a mine in goo, hoping they run into it
-sky bridge with hidden c4+mine
-goo locking addition
if you goo someone with a gun, shoot the head to block bullets
if there is a teammate nearby, consider blocking the legs so they can get headshots on them, but keep in mind they can shoot back
if the enemy is melee, might as well only lock legs
-blocking sightlines while using zipline
-continued burning for defence (like goo nade)
-making a platform on the side of a building (or crane) to look and shoot down on people
-moving items (cashouts?) from a floor below
-moving wall subble
-saving yourself while sky bridge-ing (shoot yourself with goo and nudge over to get closer, the nerf was a buff for this)
-nade grapple

been collecting for a few weeks
mostly just personal notes, not meant to be readable until i translate brain jank into words
if anything interests you just say the name and ill try to explain it

[spiral anchor]

What how did they nerf googun

[shell sonnet]

i think you used to be 100% standstill stuck in goo if you got hit
now you can move ever so slightly

which in this case means you can readjust your position to save your bacon

i think my main text may have too much added flavour
i should probably keep it a bit simpler
dont think im good at that

[desert vault]

A new type of barrel/effect? I was thinking cyro/freeze would be a really cool addition. The substance makes you slip and slide and regular guns could be able to destroy walls that have a cryo/freeze effect on them. I think it would be interesting! Fire and Cyro/freeze would cancel each other out.

[shell sonnet]

ill figure that out eventually

[shell sonnet]

dont like the idea of slows
id much rather have it be slippery

allows for cashout movement jank, and allows you to abuse it for movement yourself

[desert vault]

Yes that would probably be better :) would allow you to make some cool movement plays

[shell sonnet]

brittle walls are really interesting though

[spiral anchor]

They should make it a oil or tar barrel that slows them and they can be lite on fire

[shell sonnet]

its been ages but ive discussed an oil gadget with someone before

basically allowing light extended area denial to boost defence and allowing players to slide for as long as there is oil below them
movement stuff

[spiral anchor]

Also I hate that when I am at the end of throwing a grenade and I die split second when the grenade could have saved a teammate or kill them

Oil grenade you throw and makes a trail you can light or slide on

[shell sonnet]

i do fear we would make it too complicated
its currently relatively simple and intuitive

but every new substance added is more complexity and potential to make it confusing

[desert vault]

Yes I agree - however cyro/freeze I feel would fit the style of the finals and add to the creative plays we love and see today ;) I think beyond that would be too much

[shell sonnet]

cryo is the one i see being more likely to be added

[desert vault]

:) I wonder if devs read this chat??

[shell sonnet]

people already question if they read the main feedback chat

but i do admit, i have personal reason to believe at least some do read this one as well

[desert vault]

We will just have to see!!

[shell sonnet]

like, id kinda wanna know what others think of this

[spiral anchor]

I just tested if you can block a flash bang effect by gooing yourself

[shell sonnet]

ive posted like 2-3 clips of me doing this because i thought it was silly

[shell sonnet]

and?

[shell sonnet]

havent seen anyone else do it before that

[spiral anchor]

Nope

But I'm going to test it on frag grenades next

[shell sonnet]

and then like a month later, this exact strat is used 55 seconds into the season 4 trailer

its ridiculous and stupid to think
but also what if...?

[spiral anchor]

It works!

[shell sonnet]

i think you cant encase frags though, only nudge

[spiral anchor]

I encased myself meaning that if I suicide bomb into the enemy room and goo me or a teammate they take no damage

[toxic plover]

I like it. Already had the idea for cryo grenades. And cryo on goo makes it fire immune and harder to break

[shell sonnet]

i feel like if anything it should make it easier to break, since its the same for walls
fire immunity does sound ok though

[toxic plover]

Nah bro. Goo is already ass. Having to run a double utility for something that is barely used should be fine

[shell sonnet]

disrespectfully disagree, please expand your horizon
goo is incredibly versitile

[gilded kraken]

is flamethrower good?

[spiral anchor]

Yea

[gilded kraken]

with winchclaw?

[spiral anchor]

Jump a lot

[shell sonnet]

depends
casual with lights running around that dont know how to press s?
pretty good

might be problematic in ranked though

[gilded kraken]

or sledge + winch is better

[shell sonnet]

i think this depends

sledge can kill every class, while flame struggles with heavies and sometimes mediums
but its hitbox is pretty jank at times and has less range than flame

but its util of destruction is far more impactful imo

[toxic plover]

Goo is on every single load out I have, disrespectfully.

[shell sonnet]

i love goo

[toxic plover]

So it should have more than 250 health to break a blob. Also, a entire goo wall is connected at a single blob

[shell sonnet]

just because i love it doesnt mean i want it buffed

sure, it should be usable and fun
but i think it fits that mark

i think people are actually discovering goo recently after the long hard meta has been nerfed a bit

[toxic plover]

I think goo should be taller.

And googun buffed

[shell sonnet]

if we make the blobs bigger then towering wont be possible anymore
at least as conveniently as it is right now

[woeful agate]

i have been a goo enthusiast for a long time but before - at least on medium - you could get so much more value with other items so I couldn't run it that much but now with the defib nerfs i run it all the time

[shell sonnet]

and certain line ups might be skewed

[shell sonnet]

that was what i hoped would happen while asking for nerfs
clad to see it take effect

[spiral anchor]

You could still climb with the goo

[woeful agate]

i do think that they should give heavy a stronger/larger version of goo nade compared to the other classes

[spiral anchor]

So making the goo bigger wouldn't be so bad

[shell sonnet]

not always
given, a bit niche
but still

there would still be the diagonal tower i guess

[toxic plover]

I didn't say too tall to tower, just too tall to climb indoors

[shell sonnet]

not sure how jank it would make it though

[plain wasp]

Erm it's 300

[toxic plover]

A 1000 apologies

[shell sonnet]

im afraid thats gonna overlap

im also experimenting with tech regarding exactly this possibility of vaulting over it

and like
you can just shoot a 2nd blob 🤷

unless you mean goo nades after someone shot out the upper blob

[toxic plover]

Nah. There's middle ground and you know it. 20% larger gooblobs and 350 health per blob would be fine for both our sides

[toxic plover]

I am referring to goo nades

[shell sonnet]

if its doesnt interfere with my tech, i dont mind

but i think on hp its kinda like flash bangs

there is no black and white good vs bad
it just gets progressively more problematic the more hp it has
not sure when thats breached

also, more hp might mess with another tech i have depending on how explosive interactions are coded

[spiral anchor]

They should make it where heavy has ladders

[shell sonnet]

the humble goo gun:

[toxic plover]

It's just bullshit that on indoors for bernal a heavy can't climb over goo but a light can. So no class should be able to do that

[toxic plover]

Works like a vertical zip line but only for heavy

[shell sonnet]

not too familiar with bernals architecture yet

have you tried placing the goo on torso hight?

wait, right
noo nade, not gun

we do have vents though
its kind of a given that heavy has less movement

[spiral anchor]

I was thinking a ladder he could hold and place down so you can be freed from having to have another class help and help another class

[toxic plover]

Fucking what. So not only a light can slide into a vent to escape me but if I place a goo nade i trap myself while the M-11 light can beam me with no consequences?

[toxic plover]

Can you climb it fast

[shell sonnet]

blowing holes at the point where wall and ceiling meet can allow you got vault onto the borken wall, then jump up to the next level
its at least something

[shell sonnet]

not sure if i can put it into the right words
its like 2 am and im tired
i should probably know when to call quits

yall have a good one

[spiral anchor]

Now that I think about it heavy can't really have too much climbing or movement tools and I forgot you can just use the thing gravity cube

[toxic plover]

I mean they gave destruction to light already

[spiral anchor]

They should add something the turns back time and reverse damage but that might cause major lag

Who knows I trust embark will add a new weapon or tool next season

[toxic plover]

Have you seen sekiro deployable fan shield?

The idea is like a steel square that expands to plug holes in walls

[spiral anchor]

Cool I could see that for heavy but it kills the goo grenade

[toxic plover]

It can't be placed outdoors though

Not like it matters because CnS exist

[spiral anchor]

Now something they should add is a rage vial for heavy that takes fifty health from nearby teammates and the user and gives them speed and damage boost

I loved when they added vanish bomb for the light class so he could share his ability and something like that could fit nicely if they balance correctly

[toxic plover]

You know what would be funny?

[spiral anchor]

What

[toxic plover]

Winch claw into light sledge attack on a light, they dash away, you pop the vial and it kills them lmao

[spiral anchor]

That could cool but if they survive you would be very dead

[brittle yoke]

thing with damage boost item in this game is all the breakpoints for weapons are sooo tight that any boost makes them sorta busted, the change in s3 where lh1 could 3 tap lights made it insane

[spiral anchor]

It could be a speed boost only

Taking from the smash and dash

[brittle yoke]

the smash and dash

[spiral anchor]

Oops

[toxic plover]

It adds together to 115+50=165

[toxic plover]

Pike 3shotting lights was awsome

[spiral anchor]

The light sledge hammer does 115?

[toxic plover]

Huh? Not the heavy sledge does 115

[brittle yoke]

light attack

[spiral anchor]

Oh ok

[brittle yoke]

wtf no the light attack does 115

[spiral anchor]

I think I may have namatama brain damage

[toxic plover]

Yeah light attack does 115, heavy attack does 200

[gilded kraken]

not 205?

[toxic plover]

No

Imagine how many people would scream for sledge nerfs if light attack did 125

[spiral anchor]

That wouldn't be that bad would it? You still couldn't one shot an light

[toxic plover]

Your 2 shot medium now instead of being forced to QM after the second hit

And three shot heavy instead for f 4 shot with only light attacks

[spiral anchor]

Oh didn't know that I usually spam heavy attack because of how slow heavy is

[toxic plover]

Knowing your combos really makes the difference. It's the difference between winch a light, light attack into QM instakill and miss the heavy attack, they dash back and stun you then beam you

[spiral anchor]

That makes sense I do know about the light attack after heavy attacking a medium

[toxic plover]

I think double light attack into QM is quicker, but it's riskier. Against a Famas user I always go for the combo. Can't tell you how many times I'm left with single digit health

Also winch doesn't always stun enemies and that's very frustrating

[spiral anchor]

Do you use rpg

[toxic plover]

No

[spiral anchor]

What do you use

[toxic plover]

Winch, sledge, goo grenade, anti gravity cube, and motion sensor

[spiral anchor]

Personally I can read audio cues pretty good like footsteps and I like using the flash bangs as I can tell where a enemy is by the point thing that shows up when stunning them

[toxic plover]

Motion sensor is slept on so hard. Saves my life so much, and gets me a kill

Gravity cube because it helps me get kills because they can't run away hardly at all, camping statues, movement, cashout manipulation, vertical denial.

Goo grenade because it combos with the other two well

I can winch the cashout into a corner and goo it into a small triangle room then put a motion sensor on the ceiling. Any light daring enough to try to hop over the goo gets one shot

[spiral anchor]

Goo grenade is literally one of the first gadgets I maxed

It's so useful

Well I'm going to catch some zzz seeya

[toxic plover]

Take care

[lavish plover]

Do yall think gunplay would feel smoother if you could reload while vaulting small things.

[toxic plover]

Sure, even if it gets me killed more often as a sledge heavy

[cold thicket]

I mean, I don’t know how often most people are reloading while vaulting and I think that not being able to reload whilst vaulting can make players more strategic with when they reload

[toxic plover]

Right? Like getting punished for bad positioning

Is it just me or does bernal kinda fucking suck for sledgehammer

[opal bone]

Anyone else constantly having problems with the dematerializer not working? Especially right after switching from gadgets/weapons. You click and nothing happens

[toxic plover]

I had it happen to me like once?

[outer moss]

[boreal laurel]

I‘be been noticing that since it was released. I love demat, but it’s really not as responsive as it should be

[desert copper]

tempted by the new years rocket launcher. anyone know if it has any special effects/explosion etc? I couldn't find anything that could give me an answer

[shut bane]

It does have its own explosion vfx

Ah bit late lol

[desert copper]

all good mate, thanks!

[wheat quiver]

Hello !
What are you opinions about the SH1900 and the throwing knives in ranked tournament (high elo) ?

[toxic plover]

Sh1900 good. Throwing knives, depends on your skill

[wheat quiver]

I'm good with them, can it compete ?

[toxic plover]

Yeah. Don't get surprised when a Lh1 light tears you a new one though

[wheat quiver]

Lh1 has its own tier lol

[wheat quiver]

I fell like the sh1900 is inconsistent

[toxic plover]

Probably is, this game is going into the shitter with bugs

[covert swift]

against heavies its terrible but it shreds mediums and lights

[wheat quiver]

It can two shot heavy too

[toxic plover]

That's why it's bullshit

[covert swift]

maybe im using it wrong but that never happens even at point blank range

[toxic plover]

Happens to me as a heavy and trust me it's not fun playing the tank class and being instakilled

[covert swift]

lights are really easy to kill on heavy if you bring the sledgehammer

[toxic plover]

I'm a sledgehammer main and no they aren't if they just dash or stungun

[wheat quiver]

It's quite unforgiving tho

[toxic plover]

No it's not

[covert swift]

not if you use dash/cloak

[toxic plover]

Or vanish bomb which any light load out can equip

[royal pier]

Launch Spawns: Can't remember having major issues.

First time they fucked spawns: Generally spawned way too far away.

Current Spawns: Get rewarded for wiping first because you spawn close and get a free clean-up.

Final round is the worst, you can wipe the enemy, and they spawn by the obj and get there before you.

Oh, or you get the "go fuck yourself" spawn where it picks the absolute furthest possible spawn from anything.

[royal pier]

Heavy is the size of a SUV, if you can't give them a hug and hit both shots...how?

[vale obsidian]

because people AND The shooter move very erratically

[royal pier]

Heavy is slower than the others, bigger, and you can afford to miss some pellets.

[vale obsidian]

what im saying is that light always move so fast and their movement mess up their own aim, so they sometime miss a very easy shot trying to be erratic

[royal pier]

Or you just use Invis and saunter up once they're already fighting. At least the dagger asks for more mechanical skill.

[weak kernel]

are we really going to talk about the SH1900 not requiring skill to use in the matchup against heavy

the guy who can instantly kill light with two out of four of his specs

[rocky river]

ic

[scenic crane]

I love useing the bow with the frag and Stan and vanishing bomb is it good?

[fleet brook]

Aim center mass not head not shoulders

[covert swift]

i dont try to hit headshots

[spring grotto]

No way someones crying bout the db…

[vale mulch]

Quite a few people do lol

Not something worth counter crying about though!

[spring grotto]

Lmao, its just ghasts my flabs. The gun literally two shots the world…

[vale mulch]

Are you saying it's busted or not

[spring grotto]

Idk if its busted, its just the most annoying thing to deal with. Paired with invis and a brain yeah its broken.

[vale mulch]

Grapple db Is so fun but so annoying

[spring grotto]

Bow grapple is even more fun. Doing spins around people while filling with arrows

[vale obsidian]

i competely agree with everything you said after this...
but you say everything after this so idk what to make of it

very fun to use and very annoying to fight

the most fun part is to stand still after they miss 2 shot knowing full well that they need to reload, completelly powerless to do anything about you as you line up a good shot lol

[vale mulch]

Matter is better than lh1 and I will prove it

[toxic plover]

Cranked out a win that felt like Devine intervention holy hell feels good

[vale obsidian]

let me hear it

please i wanna know!

[toxic plover]

Played sledge heavy with our second a model heal beam medium and our third a akimbo CnS heavy against orange team consisting of Truce, imblackjesustv, and some other guy and first round they get 97k and we barely qualify. I'm black Jesus got 27 kills and the two heavy both got like 35ish put together between them. Second round we are getting messed up pretty bad because pink team and orange team are dominating(ofc). At the very very end of the round orange came to third party and they split up too much, I took out the third orange guy and medium was down, third heavy stole while I body blocked and we went to finals by a lead of like $1000 over orange knocking them out. We then got both of the cashouts final round and won.

I'm going to post the video to YT eventually

[spring grotto]

Truce and blackjesus are literally the funniest people out there man.

[toxic plover]

Fr? I'm probably in a video then

[vale obsidian]

dude that sound like a whole god damn movie

[toxic plover]

It was fucking intense

[vale obsidian]

dude i need to share my own intease match too lmao
it was in season 2 i think

[spring grotto]

Yall need WT wins?

[toxic plover]

Who? Me?

[vale obsidian]

rank tour, semi final, my team of 3 shitter and everyone in the lobby is getting crush by a team of roit shielder
i made the heroic sacrifice and bait every single one of the rioter to chase me for like 5 min straight BUT THIS CHAD, This roiter is so god damn good he keep hitting me as i regen. i dodge around as best as i could, before the game is aboout to end and as a funny send off i jump off into the void and THE CHAD Fallow me down, that man is the best i swear. he will chase me till the end of time lol

my team and the roit team lose tho which kindda suck but it was so fun lol

[toxic plover]

Sounds hilarious

[spring grotto]

Yuh, im sick of solo queueing, coin flipping wether or not my team with talk.

[vale obsidian]

solo que is all about your and yourself only my friend
nothing matter as long as you do the best you can and move on 🫡

[toxic plover]

Yeah bro but Im off for the night

[vale obsidian]

as soon as you blame something other then yourself you already start losing

[spring grotto]

Cap, it all depends on if you get a light on your team..

[toxic plover]

You know that medium from my story? He only got 5 kills the whole tournament

[vale obsidian]

in the match perspective yes, but improvement as a whole no

[spring grotto]

The amount of games lost because my lights decide fighting nonstop is the way to win, as i sit there with 11 revives playing babysitter

[vale obsidian]

get a 3 stack 🤷‍♂️ its your choice to solo que so deal with it

[toxic plover]

To be fair, it feels good to have a heal beam up my ass constantly it lets me get away with playing like shit and enables me to fully wipe teams

[spring grotto]

I love healbeam whej my team is using it, and swear it should be removed when someone else has it

[vale obsidian]

honestly i can not expect shit form solo que teammate
i only hope that theey carry their own weight and thats all

[toxic plover]

To be fair, me and the other heavy carried out medium lmao

[spring grotto]

Solo q is healthy for the soul, not the mind

[vale obsidian]

soloQ is a life style
it may not be the best game style but it is a style lmao

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[spring grotto]

S3 i made it diamond soloq, e1 twice soloq. Now im gonna be on page one WT leaderboard

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/ohnepixel-caught-caught-in-4k-meme-caught-me-hands-up-gif-15828444881760356817

[spring grotto]

As of last night i was 81, but nothing is gonna stop me. I need like 16mil to get to the top 10. THE NAME S-L-A-P-N-U-T-S- will be carved into the s5 trophy in the practice match, by god I swear it

[vale obsidian]

BASED LMAO
love the name

[toxic plover]

I'm posting the video now, it'll be up in like 40 mins

[spring grotto]

Whats the channel?

[vale obsidian]

hee prolly gonna post it here anyways
just needa wait

[spring grotto]

Yiz

[shell sonnet]

I love shit like this

The other day i saw an mgl heavy
I just stood on the highground drinking coffee and had him miss me for 3 full mags

[vale obsidian]

dude if i saw that shit im going to sneak up behind him and emote sit next to him lmao

[shell sonnet]

Or that 1 time i hid in the attic of the barn in kyoto
Shot a db medium once and we just looked at eachother shaking heads

I love stuff like this

[vale obsidian]

tf2 vibe lol

[shell sonnet]

Im so glad it drilled that into me

We need more silly in our lives

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-scout-cbt-gif-25294645

[shell sonnet]

Sawblade launcher weapon when?

[vale obsidian]

dude another projectile weapon for med would be so nice
im starting to get bored of cl40 now

[shell sonnet]

Im thinking of ultrakill with its magnets
Could be funny

Like less dps than tk's, piercing, can set up traps

[vale obsidian]

would be so useless, clunky, bad, and weird
my kind of fun

[shell sonnet]

Maybe alternate fire mode that bounces instead of getting stuck in a wall?
Bootleg mgl

[vale obsidian]

this is a cosmetic thing that don't really do anything but i want the saw to stick to people when it hit lol
someone turning into a headchog tonight

[shell sonnet]

Riot shield back cosmetic, covered in saws
"Guess it does come in handy sometimes"

[toxic plover]

@vale obsidian @spring grotto "comradeoctober" is the yt channel

[shell sonnet]

Whats up?

[vale obsidian]

also now that you mention it
does giving riot a support buff by making the riot be put on your back when unequip would it be a good change?
so people can heal turning their back

[toxic plover]

The Devine intervention WT win

[vale obsidian]

its a movie of a match bro

[shell sonnet]

Doesnt make it combat opressive
Potentially massive for stealing
Could be good

I wouldnt mind trying that

[toxic plover]

Might have to put a space between comrade October

[shell sonnet]

Did find something called that
But its not the finals

[vale obsidian]

yeah i don't know if thiss you

[shell sonnet]

Thats what i found

[vale obsidian]

@toxic plover yo?

[toxic plover]

That's it

[vale obsidian]

i don't see the vid anywhere

[toxic plover]

I didnt wanna post it to my other channel, that's just where I lift weights and voice over

[shell sonnet]

Imma watch that later

[hardy dust]

That would be a huge nerf to riot shield

Oh wait nvm I misread that

[vale obsidian]

yeah i was about to say lol
what you think about it

[hardy dust]

Yeah it could be cool but probably kinda annoying

Especially stealing while crouched or smth

But you still have to run riot shield, so it would be fair

[shell sonnet]

ive been thinking about giving riot a build in helmet which reduces headshot damage/stops headshot crits

but that would fw cosmetics and be potentially really stupid design

just wanna throw that out here anyways

thoughts?

[loud merlin]

ay remove the damn stun gun

[scenic crane]

Real

[restive plover]

It doesn't need to be removed. It could be reworked into a full glitch effect and lose the movement lock to become less annoying, but it's still mostly fine as of now.

[loud merlin]

i agree on the rework part but its defo not "mostly fine" if i were to say

[scenic crane]

Real

[loud merlin]

i mean thats possibly the most annoying thing
more than whatever those double barrel shorties do

[lost bronze]

Where can I put gadget ideas cuz I got a really good one

[torn tide]

I feel like a buff to a riot sheild is to make it block everything, melee weapons and fire weapons

[lost bronze]

Hi zoggy

[scenic crane]

Interesting

[fluid venture]

Hey guys, haven't played in a year. Anyone know the top weapons for each weight type/class? Not sure how much the meta shifted

[lost bronze]

What if they added a stim (me and ziggy and another one made rhis):
if you use it, you gain a temporary boost, where it reduces time taken to start healing, and increases health regenerated per tick?

[restive plover]

Medium is model 1887 and famas. Heavy is sa1216 and deagles. Light is lh1.

[lost bronze]

Dagger.

[fluid venture]

GANG THE MODEL IS STILL INFORM

[scenic crane]

Reallll

[spring grotto]

No fcar??????

[lost bronze]

Ong

[restive plover]

M26 is better if you have another person with a shotgun to play up close with but 9 times out of 10 go lh1.

[scenic crane]

They should thst will be crazy

[fluid venture]

Famas is now good? I remember that being meh on release

[spring grotto]

Amazing idea seeming as lights heal after 3 seconds

[lost bronze]

And like your screen has like a neon green highlight to show the effect is in place

[restive plover]

It's the best rifle now after the damage buff.

[scenic crane]

Yea

[lost bronze]

Only avail to mediums and maybe heavies?

[fluid venture]

Famas buffed? HUUUUGE I'M SO HAPPY

[scenic crane]

Wait are you thinking apex legends huh

[lost bronze]

Unc

[restive plover]

That was back at the start of season three.

[lost bronze]

Kinda, but idk cuz my friend my started it and me and ziggy built up on it

[scenic crane]

👌

[spring grotto]

Gotta add a gadget that crashes the games of lights and lights only

[fluid venture]

I played from beta to half-way S2. Didn't expect guns to shift. How's the deagles play on the Heavy? I used to be a strict flamethrower/hammer supporter.

[spring grotto]

They are prolly the safest pick

[fluid venture]

guess it got range and high ttk

[restive plover]

They're essentially a dmr.

[fluid venture]

is it like Med's revolver with headshots or is it less punishing with bodyshots?

[restive plover]

Very short ttk if you go for headshots with the 2x multiplier.

[fluid venture]

2x multi huge

[restive plover]

Both. It has the same ttk as the lmgs for body shots but more range than either, and the aforementioned headshots.

The main thing is you should pace your shots, especially over long distance. They have slight random deviation even while aiming down sights.

[fluid venture]

thanks, appreciate the advice man!

btw did data reshaper get any work done or is it still meh?

[restive plover]

It has another charge now, which is nice.

Also better range and detection. The addition of lockbolt was also an indirect buff since there is another gadget it can counter

Still situational as of now.

[fluid venture]

So gadgets barely changed in terms of ranking?

Mediums still running beam + defibs + aps
still can't replace mesh shields + rpg + C4s for heavies?

wait just saw heavy new gadget cool

[restive plover]

Defibs and aps have both been guttered and are not competing for slots anymore.

[fluid venture]

wait what

not competing sounds crazy

[restive plover]

Both got nerfed in ways that undermine their purpose.

Aps eats three things then dies, making it even more fragile and unreliable for protection.

Defibs now apply a glitch effect to the resurrected person, making it effectively take longer than a normal revive to actually get them back into the fight.

The only sure pick for medium is jump pad. The remaining slots can be occupied by some combination of Zipline, frag grenades, glitch traps, and maybe goo or motion sensors.

[fluid venture]

jump pad zip line mobility med is what i live for. honestly a better change, nobody likes non-stop revs

[restive plover]

Defib chains would have been a non issue if model were sufficiently nerfed.

Nobody cared when mediums were chaining with akm because you just get in their face and murder them. If you do that against model it kills you.

[ocean mica]

imho glitching the entire inventory was a bit overkill, because if they wanted to stop the chaining, just putting the revived guy's defib on a cooldown would work

not having to wait for what feels like an eternity for a chance to defend yourself

[stone stump]

This would be incredible

[fluid venture]

bro nobody told me rip dome shield

[shut bane]

Why what happened to it

[pine crescent]

What you are saying is too complex for embark's balancing team. They understand one thing only. Nerf medium, nerf heavy, buff light. That's it. They are incapable of complex thought.

[spark igloo]

Friendly reminder that light has received two overall buffs (regen change and gateway) since the game's launch, which leaves it still worse than light was on launch

Every class has been nerfed, for better or worse

[shut bane]

They’re still smarter than we are that’s for sure

[pine crescent]

defib/healing chaning became a problem because Embark's genius balancing team has been nerfing heavy non stop. They thought people would switch to light, but they did not. They switched to medium. Constant nerfs reduced variety. Reduced variety results in tripple stacking and same gadgets. Instead of buffing alternatives and counters, to get people to switch to something else, embark once again resorted to simply nerfing. Most of current problems are a result of embark's brainless nerf spree. I don't understand how they don't see this cause and effect.

[shut bane]

Wait wait wait what’s wrong with heavy

[spark igloo]

Defib chaining was a problem cause as they nerfed the strong weapons on heavy they didn't nerf the strong medium weapons

The brawler class stopped being as relevant for brawling so why have one when you could just sustain stack

Model single-handedly made defib stacking a problem

[pine crescent]

mediums and heavies did not need this much nerfing. they both were fine in season 2. They always worked good together and against each other. Instead of nerfing medium and heavy, they should have redesigned light to be more of a team-player and stick with their teams.

I repeat, mediums and heavies were fine. They did not need this much nerfing. Strong aps, strong dome, strong cl40, strong rpg (yes it did need a bit of damage nerf), 2 mines and c4s, turret without this dumb remote detonation thingy, etc were all fine and better than what we have today.

Light had issues. They should have redesigned/buffed/addressed the light. Not mess with mediums and heavies.

[spark igloo]

A lot of medium and heavy aspects needed serious nerfs

It's to the point where heavy is generally considered the best balanced class rn

The conception that light isn't a team player also just isn't true

C4 terrorized s1 and is still hard meta as it is while being extremely healthy as such

The issue is when certain nerfs should've been reworks, if a weapon has to nerfed into feeling like shit then it needs a rework, like what cl40 should've gotten

[pine crescent]

No they did not. Nerfing spree is the stupidest thing they did. They should have buffed counters and alternatives. That's it. APS did not need a nerf. Heavy dome did not need a nerf. C4 did not need a nerf.

They eroded the definition and the point of having classes. What's the point of dome if it pops in 3 seconds and now a fire passes through?. What's the point of an 350 health if a light melts you in 0.1 seconds?

My point is, if heavy is suppsoed to defend a point, reduce their offensive capabilities but keep/buff their defensive capabilities. But they nerfed everything. And this is coming from a medium main.

So why do we even have classes now? just make everyone light and be done with it.

[spark igloo]

I'm not even gonna argue with this because it's the same light hate bias that every bronze swings by with

[ocean mica]

Nay, Embark's team is doing a good job. They do nerf things that the playerbase has clear issues with, or if they see problems themselves.

I do think most people complain out of being used to a certain playstyle

Not all, of course, but a great deal

My point being, it's probably not that easy to balance anything more specific than "pike does a lot of damage at any range"

[pine crescent]

And I'm not gonna argue with a person who clearly does ot see that we are stuck in a nerf spree. Every nerf reduces variety in the game, which leads more people to equip the same thing, which leads people to whine about it, which leads to embark nerfing that thing now. It is a closed cycle.

We need hard balancing revert back to season 2 and buff alternatives/counters wherever necessary. We don't need nerfs. They have nerfed enough.

[spark igloo]

Idk whatever enjoy the climb to silver 💯

[pine crescent]

do you feel better?

[spark igloo]

Talk to me when you make it to gold

[pine crescent]

talk to me when you grow up and hit puberty, child.

[spark igloo]

Considering hitting some kovaaks first. Maybe you wouldn't struggle to hit the class that dies in 4 shots 💯

[vague breach]

start a gofundme so you can buy kovaaks bruh

[pine crescent]

Can you read? What part of we need variety, buffs to alternatives and counters instead of dumb nerfs do you understand as "I can't kill lights"?

[outer flint]

They also nerf a lot of things that don’t need nerfs the ak is a great example, it was perfectly fine where it was, and they decided to nerf it’s mag size for no reason.

[vague breach]

ong nerf dash 🗣️🗣️🗣️😈

[outer flint]

Pretty sure embark just nerfs things based on usage rates

[spark igloo]

Ngl you were right about like half the things you said I'm just sayin shit

[outer flint]

Which is a terrible way to go about balancing the game

[vague breach]

nah cause model

[spark igloo]

A lot of nerfs weren't the cause tho. They just don't understand the main problems with items so every time something got nerfed it never actually fixed the problem and the game just felt watered down

[outer flint]

They literally just nerfed model

Not that long ago

[spark igloo]

2nd Model nerf that did nothing 💯

[vague breach]

so true embark are so quick with nerfs and now model is balanced hooray for embark!

[scenic crane]

It will

[outer flint]

It definitely did do something

Obviously the model is still strong, but the nerf did make it weaker

[spark igloo]

Model is only ran 90% of the time in high elo instead of 99% guys big change

[outer flint]

Inflated numbers, and yes 9% is actually a sizeable change

[plain wasp]

It should do less than 110

[spark igloo]

The fcar visual recoil change did more to change up what people ran than the model nerf

The most recent nerf unironically buffed it against lights and heavies

[vague breach]

make so every time i get hit by a model oscar personally comes out the screen and beats the shit out of me

[spark igloo]

Only nerfed it against mediums

[vague breach]

was this the damage nerf

[spark igloo]

Yeah

[vague breach]

well technically after the nerf you have to hit 3 full pumps to kill a heavy but not that it changes much

[outer flint]

The only issue with the model in my eyes is the spread/range

[spark igloo]

Full pumping a heavy is easy enough

[potent pilot]

or use your qm button

[spark igloo]

The damage is the issue, it shouldn't be able to 1 shot qm lights

[outer flint]

do you also have a problem with the sa1216?

[spark igloo]

An under 110 damage model is what it needs to be

[pine crescent]

Thank you. You see this, i see this. Why doesn't embarks balancing team see this?

Whats the point of cerberus when there is a model? Cerberus sucks.

Or for example I would love to use lockbolt instead of grenade or something in powershift. I want to shoot it at the ceiling so it catches and drags people of the platform. But lockbolt sucks. They can run half the map when they are attached to it.

What's the point of adding things if they are utterly garbage since day 1.

Make things viable so people choose different loadouts. Nobody wants to be trapped in the same loadout just because other stuff suck.

[spark igloo]

No because the sa12 has drawbacks and a clear speciality

[outer flint]

And what are those drawbacks?

[vague breach]

sa12 is perfectly healthy but with winch idk

[shell sonnet]

Winch is kinda a problem imo
Makes many otherwise fine weapons problematic

[spark igloo]

Range, you need to spec into it, heavy is supposed to be good in cqc, you are slow, it is punishing and high skill

[outer flint]

Yeah exactly, the problem is range

If the sa1216 had the range of the model it would probably be an issue wouldn’t it?

[vague breach]

medium is meant for medium range tho

[spark igloo]

Because embark has no clear balancing goals, they have no clear balancing team if you take the word of some people

[vague breach]

and a shotgun just doesn't fit medium

[potent pilot]

winch is the issue for heavy which is a brawler class, should be the strongest class up close meanwhile medium the support class which should be worse at cqc than others gets the best peek weapon in the game

[spark igloo]

Medium is also just not meant to excel in close range or have high burst damage

[outer flint]

Well that’s not the argument here is it?

The best solution for your argument would just be to remove the model entirely

[spark igloo]

Yes that is the argument we are talking about a medium weapon that outclasses all but two weapons in the game at close range

[plain wasp]

Give the model a chance to misfire and shoot your eye out and turn half the screen black

[spark igloo]

Or make it 104 damage, making it useable at close range and close to mid range without be absurdly overtuned

[outer flint]

It’s a shotgun, obviously it’s meant to excel at close range

[vague breach]

and that doesn't fit medium

[spark igloo]

Yes but the issue is that medium isn't supposed to excel at close range

[plain wasp]

The problem being that medium excelling in close range is game breaking

[outer flint]

Okay well I guess the model should be removed then?

aswell as mediums melee weapons, and the Cerberus

[vague breach]

https://tenor.com/view/mundo-feliz-onetreehsll-world-if-gif-14071235670792471304

[spark igloo]

Both medium melees are terrible no matter what range

[sacred stratus]

model removed would be lovely 👀 😅

[plain wasp]

They're good for defense not offense

[spark igloo]

And Cerberus never should've been added considering how they struggle to deal with model

[outer flint]

The model should just have its range reduced

[vague breach]

medium having a shotgun is like heavy having a sniper

[outer flint]

then it keeps the benefits of being a shotgun, while not being ridiculously overpowered

[spark igloo]

medium is too good at close range

nerf model so it is still too good at close range

What are you not getting here

[vague breach]

range was never the issue, it was just kinda obnoxious

[outer flint]

Dude I don’t think you understand what I’m trying to say, you’re basically just saying we should remove the model, I’m trying to balance it out.

[spark igloo]

That still keeps it overpowered because nothing changes. It is still unhealthy this way

[outer flint]

It definitely has too much range for a shotgun

[spark igloo]

Yes but the range isn't the issue. It is the damage

[outer flint]

I don’t think you understand the caveat that comes with using a shotgun

They’re meant to excel at close ranges, cause that’s what they’re made for.

[vague breach]

and thats not what medium is made for

[pine crescent]

What you need is your mom to take your computer away 😁

[outer flint]

Then just fucking remove the model omg !!!!

[spark igloo]

But this literally doesn't work in the game. Just make it above average at close range and ok at mid range and the weapon is fine

[outer flint]

Dude you’re literally overlooking my point

[pine crescent]

Send me your address

[vague breach]

1 goated lane

[outer flint]

And just saying medium shouldn’t be good at close ranges

[shell sonnet]

This game is not realistic
Otherwise any single shot would just kill you
Same with explosives

The finals is not like that, for the better

So model is a long range shotgun, what gives?

[spark igloo]

Your proposed fix does not solve medium being too good at close range

It just makes the weapon feel worse while not addressing the issue

[outer flint]

Oh my god dude just tell them to remove the model, and the Cerberus, there’s a fix to your problem.

that is literally the only solution you’d be happy with, or just making the model completely unusable

[spark igloo]

???

[outer flint]

You are completely overlooking my point and ignoring what I’m trying to say

[spark igloo]

High burst damage at close - mid range is not unusable

[outer flint]

is the model currently usable at mid range?

[spark igloo]

Yes????

[outer flint]

Okay then that’s what I’m saying, nerf the range.

[spark igloo]

depends on your definition of mid range ig

[vague breach]

usable at range but not good whatsoever

[spark igloo]

Model being usable at mid range isn't an issue. Model being the second best close range weapon in the game is the issue

[outer flint]

Still has arguably too much range for a shotgun

[vague breach]

if it was like cerberus range it wouldnt be fixed

[outer flint]

What’s the first best in your opinion?

[vague breach]

actually idk

[spark igloo]

Sa1216

[outer flint]

Okay what about the sh1900, where does that land?

cause for close range, it’s definitely better than the model is, so how about we nerf that too?

[vague breach]

cause its on the dps class

[outer flint]

Well the sa1216 is on the tank class, so why is it the best close range weapon?

[vague breach]

cause its not the tank class? lol

[outer flint]

What do you consider the heavy to be then?

[spark igloo]

Because heavy is also the cqc brawler class

[covert parcel]

when the tank has cqb

[spark igloo]

It's a toss up between sh1900 and model for second imo. Sh1900 is very punishing and only lets you get off two shots without putting yourself in extreme risk, meanwhile model lets you wipe a team of mediums without reloading and is on a beefier class.

[outer flint]

You never said that until I brought up the sh1900, you were saying the model was the definite second best close range weapon in the game.

You never even mentioned the sh1900 until I did

[pine crescent]

I don't think even embark understands what their classes are supposed to be. They eroded the class division too much. Imho heavy at this point is just a piece of meat.

[outer flint]

Yeah, the classes definitely aren’t limited to what their descriptions say they’re meant for now.

[sterile ginkgo]

кто русский съел?

[spark igloo]

Because that's what I consider it. Depending on the person and what they consider makes the best cqc weapon they may say sh1900. Damage at close range yes sh1900 is the second best. But model does most other things better

[spark igloo]

Because model is the topic bruh 😭

Dagger is also a cqc weapon that does 320 damage but I'm not bringing that up because the weapon is terrible and it isn't relevant to "medium shouldn't be a cqc terror"

[outer flint]

The topic has also shifted to what the best close range weapons were multiple times

[spark igloo]

Because you took it there bruh I'm not bringing up sh1900 when it has nothing to do with my point

Like get a grip dude 😭

[outer flint]

No I didn’t, you mentioned yourself multiple times that the model is the second best close range weapon.

[spark igloo]

And sh1900 is one of the best but that literally has nothing to do with model being the second best????????

Sh1900 ain't a model damage value bruh

The number you're looking for there is 116

[grand turtle]

My hot take is that the other medium weapons just suck in comparison to model.
You only see FAMAS (other than model) in the top ranks apparently.
Its easy to be the top pick when everything else sucks.

[potent pilot]

take a peek at the damage per mag of model and sh and consider than sh is on a class that should get picks and info and then consider that model is on a class that should support their team

[outer flint]

I see fcar often when watching videos/streams

[pine crescent]

90% of the time I see mediums with AK or model. What's the point of fcar or cerberus. Not talking about the meele.

[mystic nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/jerry-eating-amc-perfectly-popcorn-mouse-yum-yum-delicious-gif-15877432887457947334

[outer flint]

I’d say it’s just preference

[pine crescent]

Do people still play pike?

[outer flint]

Not from what I’ve seen

I don’t really see it often tbh

[fluid venture]

model is great and doesn't need to be changed

shotgun go pow, shotgun feel good.

[mystic nimbus]

???????

[fluid venture]

yes i said it

[mystic nimbus]

tell me you're baiting

[fluid venture]

bro can't read names

[grand turtle]

For an average player that doesnt sit in range for hours learning the pattern, it does feel crap to use.
AKM on other hand is easy to control since the recoil just goes up and goes left and right a tiny bit.

That is at least my take on it.
Worse recoil changes little for the pro players/people who have nothing better to do but memorize the patterns. But for someone who hops on to play it feels awful.

[fluid venture]

I respect the consistency of AK recoil pattern across most FPS games.

[mystic nimbus]

it's crazy how i can determine the skills/iq of someone by just reading their msgs/names

[fluid venture]

it's crazy you're using too much of your brain to see someone likes a weapon and is enjoying its broken state.

[outer flint]

Honestly it didn’t take me much time to learn the recoil of the fcar, it definitely can be challenging tho because of that little jump it has after the first couple bullets.

[mystic nimbus]

u just said it's great and doesn't need to be changed

[fluid venture]

because i like the model, i like it broken, idk whats so hard to understand

[mystic nimbus]

at least you're honest

[outer flint]

I’ve seen you say many stupid things in this server, please don’t be talking.

[fluid venture]

i mean you couldn't figure that out holy

[mystic nimbus]

i would dagger to backstab from the front goo

[mystic nimbus]

i double checked and u told me to read your name soooo🤷‍♂️

[mystic nimbus]

[fluid venture]

my guy you must not think of every message online as a direct factual statement

[solid knoll]

[grand turtle]

Imagine FCAR without the recoil jump there.
You do not need to learn the pattern in the first place
You can enjoy the gun and the only factor you take is its stats.

I would personally love to use lewis but it is the same deal.
Its hard to aim at heads when it jumps everywhere around the target.

[scenic crane]

Real

[bronze cedar]

I think that the problem is not in a Model, but rather with other guns. Why would I use FCAR or AK over Famas or Model if they are much less effective? I think it would be better not to heavy nerf Model or Famas, or even LH-1, but rather buff other guns and (maybe) do a slight nerf to the more effective ones. I think that player base would be much more grateful if devs will reduce recoil of FCAR (and also, I think that the damage of FCAR should be 23 rather then 22, because at the moment this gun just don't worth it) and will give AK back it's 36 round mag.

[mystic nimbus]

yea let's bring back s2 fcar. brilliant idea!!!

[restive plover]

Multiple things can need adjustment at once.

[bronze cedar]

Well, this is what all developers encounter, unless your game is “rock, paper scissors”. Also, we should remember that in this game we have customisation of builds, so the phrase “medium is support and long range, so he must be worst in close range” just doesn’t work. If all things must be balanced in this way, then why we have customisation at all? Won’t it be better to make smth like TF2 or Overwatch? Because in this logic of fixed roles for fixed classes, half of Heavy’s guns must be deleted, because they are not ment for cqb.

[restive plover]

Only two guns on heavy need major nerfs/reworks for giving heavy too much ranged power: .50 akimbo and lewis.

And why doesn't it work? Having set roles is the purpose of making a class based shooter to begin with. You can customize your equipment to choose how you want to fulfill that role, but it still exists. Classes not being self reliant in every scenario also encourages a healthier HML meta, instead of double stacking heavies or triple stacking mediums like we've seen since season one.

[toxic plover]

https://youtu.be/FE-0-uKHvFM?si=qHy1aANTEQ708YYW

[boreal laurel]

Out of curiosity, why am I hearing so much hate on the LH1 all of a sudden? I feel like it’s still the same as it’s always been: strong in the right hands only. Is it coming into meta at the higher ranks? Because the only thing we casuals see are triple-stack M11s

[toxic plover]

@shell sonnet @vale obsidian @spring grotto

[candid cedar]

No

[hardy dust]

Bc its popular and now people complain about it

It was always super good but nobody bothered to complain about it

The red dot and lack of visual recoil helped it become a lot more accessible, so now its more popular

[vale mulch]

As a former lh1 main the red dot was unneeded

[hardy dust]

Red dot is definitely much better than irons or scope

Yep

[restive plover]

Red dot wit da glint

[vale mulch]

Also can someone explain the whole nerf shak thing?

[hardy dust]

Idk

Probably bc it kills faster than medium rifles at a decent range

Not really

I dont really know much about people asking to nerf shak

[vale mulch]

Deagles are so busted

I recently out-sniped a poor lh1 light with deagles

[hardy dust]

Yeah they're pretty stupid

Having falloff start around 40m is stupid

[vale mulch]

That's literally the falloff of sr84 💀

[hardy dust]

Giving heavy good ranged options is stupid

[hardy dust]

Not the falloff, but the projectile thingy

[vale mulch]

Yeah

Lewis is almost too much range

[hardy dust]

Lewis has the same issue but to a lesser extent

They both ought to get some kind of rework

[grand turtle]

There would be no "issue" if the close range guns were actually good at close range :)
Just like M11 or V9S the light class has.
Meanwhile you get the weapons with more range that somehow are better at close range, especially the hipfire...
One day I might understand this balancing.

[autumn dirge]

the lethal damage range of the light shotgun is the same as the range of the sledge 😭

light player eternal suffering

[acoustic patrol]

Oh yeah the damage fall of on the revolver leaves me beaten by heavy with dagles I noticed.

[spring grotto]

But unlike sledge, it can dash, grapple, or invis sneak up on someone…

[acoustic patrol]

Whopse, didn't cancel reply.

[autumn dirge]

the light shotgun sucks

[spring grotto]

V9s has the most amazing hipfire ive seen, i can be sliding and junping an the thing shoots straight

[spring grotto]

Db? Or the other one

[autumn dirge]

oh yeah theres two now, db

[spring grotto]

Bud, the db is crazy, no other weapon two shots every class..

[acoustic patrol]

Sounds like a skill issue.

[spring grotto]

It has its shortcomings but its expected as a delete button typa weapon

Mustards typing

Hes still typing

[grand turtle]

Yup. Hipfire is accurate, plenty of ammo, solid damage, blitz reload.
But at the range it starts sucking.

Meanwhile you have M60 and AKM, which have less range than other weapons from their category, yet I do not see anything great about them other than ease of use.

[narrow plinth]

Yo anyone down to buy me a r .357 skin lol😂

[acoustic patrol]

"Lol"

[grand turtle]

There is a 357 skin in the contracts right now if you need any

[narrow plinth]

Ya it just ant that good lol

[spring grotto]

EOU is whats great about them, sure the Ak isnt better than fcar or famas, but shouldnt the game have these guns just for that?

[grand turtle]

How dare you diss on Vaiiya...
Clearly unchipped user.

[narrow plinth]

What sometimes you gotta be honest the skin sucks

[spring grotto]

Still, some poeple only hit headshots with ak and its pretty good

[grand turtle]

Im just joking

[acoustic patrol]

And I thought it was just a funny way to say "you're wrong."

[grand turtle]

I personally like the vaiiya skins with that red effect.
If a bundle comes out with those for other weapons, im probably buying that.

[narrow plinth]

I just want the stick skin

[acoustic patrol]

That's odd to ask for a skin, it doesn't seem like you are joking anymore.

[narrow plinth]

Ow no I was joking that’s just the skin I want tho

[warm portal]

best heavy weapon?

[acoustic patrol]

Ohhhh, that's hard.

Flame+mines seems pretty nasty rn.

[warm portal]

ive played flame thrower but its useless in big maps and im js stuck in the open

[acoustic patrol]

Thank God for reserve

Best all round is prolly Lewis or Shak.

[warm portal]

reserves only after a roundd tho not mid respawn

[warm portal]

ye alr ive got lewis rn but the scopes horrid

[acoustic patrol]

You usually swap when you spot a open map.

[warm portal]

is it good w the additional scope? or should i js get shak

[acoustic patrol]

The red-dot?

[warm portal]

yeah

[toxic plover]

@spring grotto did you see the video

[acoustic patrol]

I personally like it more.

[acoustic patrol]

Before the match starts.

[warm portal]

whats the best heavy gadgets?

[warm portal]

yeah ik but still id rather js not use flameturower bc even in closed maps theres stiill sometmes where im caught in the open

[acoustic patrol]

Then focus on positioning.

[grand turtle]

That ease of use is not that of a big deal though.
This is where I kinda disagree.

It should be easy to use the weapon at its range.
Imagine AKM getting its bullets back or maybe even reaching 40, much better hipfire.
Meanwhile FCAR no longer gets that recoil jump and gets worse hipfire.

This would make AKM in perfect imaginary scenario better at closer ranges. FCAR would be at a disadvantage in comparison.
Meanwhile FCAR would be really accurate at range, making AKM struggle.

Similar thing would go for M60 and lewis.
Basically close range pick and range pick. Each being better at their ranges.

At least this is how I see it being more fun.

[warm portal]

ive got the worst movement ever bc im on controller

[acoustic patrol]

Positioning, not movement.

Use goo, barricade, etc.

Block lines of sight.

Or dome shield+charge and slam to cover a big area quickly to get to a safe one.

Also, controller ain't an excuse.

[warm portal]

ive gotta switch to better binds

ive got 2 paddles but i js dont use them properly bc there from fortnie

[acoustic patrol]

Nice but, I find default binds excellent.

What is your specific problem with the binds?

[unborn frigate]

rpg

[acoustic patrol]

You have three slots....

[warm portal]

id reckon its my gadget binds

[boreal laurel]

IK I’m late to the party but the ShAK is actually one of the best right now. M60 however is way easier, so if you’re a heavy noob you can start there. Deagles are good if you’re a good shot

[warm portal]

i use the one where u press lb and then a letter to select a gadget

[warm portal]

alr thanks

[unborn frigate]

most of the other ones are decent but not the best imo

[warm portal]

yo what rank r u

[unborn frigate]

dont play ranked cause i play oceania and no one plays ranked

[warm portal]

u dont queue asia?

[spring grotto]

Idk dawg the last time a game changed a gun i spent a sickening amount of time using, i stopped playing

[grand turtle]

I do not understand.
You mean learning the recoil pattern?

[unborn frigate]

no i am not usually the host in my parties and they all have theirs set to oce

[outer flint]

Asia servers from what I heard are completely infested with cheaters and basically unplayable

[acoustic patrol]

Set it to stick flick.

[warm portal]

yeah ima change to that

[acoustic patrol]

Lb+stick flick

[warm portal]

not rlly im low elo tho only like 9k rr fairly new to the game but nobody plays asia and ive been queued w golds and plats

[acoustic patrol]

I'm NA and it's good, but I guess ping Is too bad if u use NA?

[spring grotto]

Yes, rust had a big following who spent literal weeks of playtime just learning it, then they did whatever tf with its pattern and many left. Ak does need its bullets back, but the fcar shouldn’t be stripped just because the ak is underperforming

[unborn frigate]

usually over 100-150ping or even more

[acoustic patrol]

Something needed to change, what else do you suggest?

[acoustic patrol]

Ugh, what server is overall decent for you?

[warm portal]

yea na ping isnt the best asia is not the worst, for me i js get random lag spikes and dsometimes game freezes on asia worst is i gotta reconnect to server

[unborn frigate]

oce

[warm portal]

i think its js my shitty wifi and 60 fps console

[warm portal]

u can only play quick cash w oce really

[unborn frigate]

yea and powershift

which are the 2 gamemodes i play most anyway

[grand turtle]

Never played rust, but I know what you mean. It sucks when that happens.
But... what I meant by removing the recoil jump is to make the recoil be very easy. It would only go lightly up, similar to shak or famas even. (The jump at the 3-4th bullet)
Nothing to learn in the first place.
So I would say both weapons actually get better.

[warm portal]

u can get powershift queues? how long r they

[acoustic patrol]

Jeez I get ~2:00 ranked queue times in NA, wbu?

[unborn frigate]

1min or so

[warm portal]

in asia it can range from 1.30 to liike 6

never bothered to try oce queues

[unborn frigate]

litterally impossible to get into a oce game that isnt qc or ps

[warm portal]

@acoustic patrol what rank r u

[acoustic patrol]

Gold 3

Exclusively play ranked and PS

Tryna get to plat.

[warm portal]

oh damn what ranks dy verse

when u were like silver or sm whod uverse asw

[acoustic patrol]

Usually silver 4 to Gold 1

[acoustic patrol]

Same thing but subtract a rank, seems to follow that formula.