💣┇weapons-gadgets

[sand monolith]

The only issue with defib is that model negates all its weaknesses and it’s literally the only healing gadget in the game

It will always be a must pick unless more healing gadgets are added or if it’s nerfed into the ground

Making it limit the user would just make the game feel worse to play

[mellow ridge]

i disagree i think it lets other gadgets get used

this game is the kinda game needs a shifting meta

[young quail]

This is fire

[mellow ridge]

it also sets an interesting precedent. the ability to bring in really strong gadgets for each class that deepen its specialization/role, except these gadgets can take up 2 slots

defib is inherently game changing, it changes the way we can play the game and for such a strong tool in a sandbox mode that encourages a diverse playstyle it needs a drawback that makes you hesitate. someone on the team should still have it, maybe it comes up faster if it takes two slots. theres something there worth looking into

[sage stone]

https://tenor.com/view/resident_evil_4-command-grab-throw-ganados-resi_4-gif-24278442

[drowsy pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-fall-epic-embed-fail-fail-funny-gif-21341768

[languid crag]

https://tenor.com/view/embed-fail-gif-21166005

[fresh raft]

damn

[solemn light]

Is this the channel for new weapon ideas, or just current ones?

[north flare]

6

[heady kindle]

I see no reason why not both

Speaking of, indulge me, are these ideas fun?

• Incendiary ammo weapon of some kind. A second shotgun for mediums maybe? Or an Incendiary explosive weapon?
• Crossbow. Preferably with some gimmick to differentiate from the bow. Special ammo, or a unique firing mode maybe.
• A melee/range combo weapon. Think like a knife or riot shield with a sidearm or an smg.

[normal ice]

Game could indeed use more unique weapons like those

as long as they're balanced, of course

[heady kindle]

Long as it's not 8 more assault rifles on medium, and 6 more smgs for light.

[spare scaffold]

its not it would be a way of nerfing MMM but is a way to big nerf to Teams where there are only one or two M so no embark dont add this idea just balance it otherwise

[ember sigil]

I’m getting really annoyed by hammer and winch

It’s really hurting my feelings 😔

[grave zodiac]

A heal pistol should be added, something like:

2 charges 15 cd, fires a single dart with a little reload animation afterwards. Each dart on contact with a teammate immediately starts regeneration with a 1.5x (maybe lower) multiplier, the multiplier is removed if a gadget is used or a gun is shot and regeneration is stopped as normal if you get shot. This would give medium the pattern of having a similar specialization and gadget (light has cloak and cloaking bomb, heavy has mesh shield and dome shield, medium used to have recon nade, and they removed wallhacks). This would give medium a way to have that "top up post fight" gameplay that is separated from heal beam, which allows you to nerf heal beam harder. To Nerf heal beam, I would:
Further reduce its range, and heavily reduce its maximum healing (I would say to about 50-70) and maybe nerf its cd to be higher but buff it's heal rate to about 20hp/s. This would make it the mid fight heal option, able to quickly add health to a low teammate, but due to its low heal cap you don't get the undying medium as even if 2 medium feed medium, the one being healed would of have the same amount of health as if he just picked heavy, discouraging heal chaining due to the low amount of health given

[tranquil rose]

There's no way people use the model non-ironically, seriously. How can a medium shotgun 100% outclass a entire light shotgun in terms of cqc effectiveness

The more time passes, the more I think model should've been a light weapon, give matter to medium that is away more balanced damage wise

[golden trail]

man, if heavy ever gets a sniper option, instead of the obvious barrett 50 cal they should make it something weird like a scoped nitro express

like a classy over/under break action with irons or acog

an elephant gun sized weapon would be so fun to see added

signalis gave me the idea of a nitro as a rifle and i think it'd be a great fit to round out the trio of break actions now that medium is getting one

[grave zodiac]

Lol, lmao even

[tranquil rose]

It has burst, it has range, it's much more safer than DB, it would be a secondary shotty option for a class that basically dies to anything competent so lol

Gotta remember it's a 150 HP class, any small disadvantage or misstep

[grave zodiac]

The issue with the model is despite how moderately tanky medium is, they have an insane amount of mobility with jump pad and can just teleport on you, then hit you with a 2 shot and roll on with 90 hp remaining

[tranquil rose]

People would hate it AWAY less if wasn't in a 250 HP class with full utility

[tranquil rose]

Yeah I know, that's what i'm saying

[grave zodiac]

Model should be knocked down to 115 (same as sledge left click) and remove animation canceling with the rack animation

[tranquil rose]

The medium class has no reason to be a 250 class if it's this powerful, a 150 class would be more away more balanced around it

[tranquil rose]

I would say 100s damage, atm you can shoot + melee a light, that's stupid as fuck

I think it's like 47 a quick melee?

[grave zodiac]

Honestly I was thinking the opposite. Increase its spread like 20% and give it to heavy. Give medium the KS as they can close the gap easier and could use the destruction

[tranquil rose]

Heavy already have like K-S3 as a "in your face" type of weapon

Oh sorry, not, its SA something

[grave zodiac]

KS just kinda sucks because it's inaccurate and heavy struggles to keep up to actually hit the shots

[solemn light]

Aight, lemme find that old post

[tranquil rose]

Let me correct myself, SA1216 is already the type of shotgun that is "in your face", while the KS it's a more ranged weapon

And KS doesnt suck at all, it's just hard to use but it's such a incredible weapon to master

[grave zodiac]

Yeah and the model is a mid range shotgun

That's half the issue with it medium can stay in mid range and dodge really easy, while tanking hits

[tranquil rose]

KS is already heavy mid range option though

[grave zodiac]

... thats why I said swap KS and model

[tranquil rose]

I don't know, whatever is the case model needs to be balanced asap

After this the game would be in a good state in terms of no weapon is singularly opressive

[grave zodiac]

Hahaha you say that until the next meta walks in. Here's betting on famas

[tranquil rose]

They 100% will nerf to ground model to give the spotlight to the new shotgun lol

There's no way they will allow model to stay as it is

[grave zodiac]

Like I like playing the model but it just plays like a better revolver thats easier to hit, it's kinda crazy

[tranquil rose]

Yeah, to be honest with you, at this point is better to main KS than trying the revolver lol

[plucky spade]

You don't even know how much dmg a quick melee does?

[grave zodiac]

Also this idea just sounds so Cancer, light can get out of cover, blast you, then back in cover using a dash all in like a second

It's the whole reason the matter is moderately weak

[tranquil rose]

40, happy now?

[plucky spade]

Yayyyy now we can talk

[tranquil rose]

I think model full blast is 128

[plucky spade]

Yes 128

[grave zodiac]

And yeah it's a close range shotgun, if you get close enough for me to quickmelee you after I hit you you deserve to die, you are the fast little movement guy

[tranquil rose]

yeah because there's no CQC and surprises while playing the game, not everything is recipe that will 100% work most of the time

[plucky spade]

Idk why they insist on model 2 shotting meds when every single fire weapon 3 shots meds or more from the same distance.

[grave zodiac]

People harp on about how much of a glass cannon light is and how they deserve strong weapons because they die fast, then want to remove combos that kill lights quickly

[plucky spade]

It's a shotgun, look at the double barrel

[tranquil rose]

The game has so many variables and decisions that change the outcomes, saying shit like "oh just do x and y" it's unrealistic as hell

[plucky spade]

You think that doesn't apply to model?

[grave zodiac]

This is the real issue with it. It outdamages everything at its range, and has slightly longer range then its role. 115 and its better

[tranquil rose]

It does apply to model, vice versa, but just say "oh you're fast you can do it" is reductive as hell

[plucky spade]

I mean yeah if you can 2 shot a med in super close quick melee range it's fair cause I closed the distance to you enough to finish you off with a melee

[grave zodiac]

By this logic we should nerf hammer right click because "how is it fair that light dies instantly, what if they get snuck up on you can't predict everything"

[tranquil rose]

Problem is it's more on "what's the most likely sutituation?", because at the same time may know how to counter model you, the enemy also know how to approach and kill you

[grave zodiac]

You are the glass cannon, you have to be aware and always on the move so you don't die quickly

[tranquil rose]

You're not bringing melee weapons to this discussion man...seriously

[plucky spade]

You're gonna overnerf the model 100%

[tranquil rose]

Melee is the most poorly thought out gameplay in the game, so many things cancel it

[grave zodiac]

Your name really is a lie

[tranquil rose]

EVERYBODY complains everyday how zap is annyoing, how low gravity fuck you over etc etc

[grave zodiac]

Because one is a button that just turns off all close range playstylr (tazer), and other is a random event that makes the game hard to play

[tranquil rose]

How glitch mine basically nuliffilies your movement so you're screw with you relying on dashes

[grave zodiac]

Yeah you're a light lol

[plucky spade]

Me when wasd juking.
Also you can jump over people while glitched
Unless melee by which point oh well

[tranquil rose]

There's also differences in speed

[grave zodiac]

This really is the light mindset at work

[tranquil rose]

How is a light mindeset man?

I'm not talking about only in a class perspective, i'm talking about the whole feedback people has been giving through the history of the game

Melee was always kinda super niche gameplay due the game's nature

[heady kindle]

Grapple is fun but dash is useful.

I hate enjoying grappling around and making plays only to be destroyed by a dash light.

I know it's a skill issue, but I think dash is a little much. 1 or 2 dashes would be better. You couldn't get so much distance with it, and the grapple could finally shine as a movement tool.

I don't like the idea of nerfing the speed or distance of each one, cause then it'll feel worse

[tranquil rose]

Due how many things can screw you over lol

[plucky spade]

Everybody screws everybody else over. Hell, goo can screw you over and every class has access to it.

[grave zodiac]

Thats why melee is so strong. Hammer one shots lights and can combo mediums, spear has good range, riot shield has a shield to block damage for free, sword dash is basically unblockable damage and dagger is an instant kill

[tranquil rose]

Yeah and why it's not popular picks? Hm?

How many times do you see people going full melee?

The only one I kinda see happens is the hammer due goo and grapple helping, but most of all other options happens so very little

[grave zodiac]

What do you mean full melee? Like a full team? Because running everyone close range is just stupid perhaps?

[tranquil rose]

oh man fuck off, you know what I'm meant

[grave zodiac]

I literally don't

[plucky spade]

Because it's not comfortable. I've been fucking people over in powershift using shield, just as i've been fucked. Just because gunplay is genuinely good in a game doesn't mean melee isn't. People who play this game have been yearning good gunplay, not melee necessarily.

[still magnet]

thats over exaagurated af

[heady kindle]

Melee is hard to use and hard to counter. It's just turning up the difficulty for everyone which I'm happy with every now and then.

I think melees in a good place. I also think that gadgets and guns could be slightly better all around, but all things considered...

...I'd rather they focus on adding more stuff to use instead of changing what we already have

[plucky spade]

Trust me you can do very fucking well with melee.
But you can't carry ( as med), you need a team, you become an even better support while giving away your ranged damage.
Now do some melees need tweaks? Yes
Esp dual blades, their parry should be more generous.
Dagger should have it's backstab hitbox reduced to 120 degrees and a 1 frame hurtbox
Sword remains sword, the dash and some bugs around it are the problem
Spear has very few going for it but is ok otherwise
Hammer good
Riot shield good

[still magnet]

me and my trio go full melee, i go dagger my friends go riot and sledge yet we kinda manage and play in 38k plat as we all are really good

[plucky spade]

Fuck dagger and it's tf2 ass problems

[heady kindle]

Maybe it's just me but I would have loved a riot shield/sidearm combo. I know it's dumb but that's cool you can't deny it

[grave zodiac]

Hm?

[plucky spade]

Nightmare(?)

[heady kindle]

I don't know what that mean sorry

[still magnet]

dagger isnt a "oneshot" in terms of like you look people down and they die, dagger takes a good amount of effort to kill people with

[grave zodiac]

I know it's hard, but it literally is a one-shot against everything except heavy

[plucky spade]

The receiving end feels really unfair
See face stabs

[heady kindle]

Exactly. Hard to use hard to counter. Hard mode finals

[grave zodiac]

Have you seen my clip in #🔴┇media-chat ? I did not deserve that
#🔴┇media-chat message

[still magnet]

light is legit bullshit, you are suposed to get behinde a person thats the same speed as you? that can dash away ???
Mediums have model and jump pad and winch claw and charge are absolute nonsense

[plucky spade]

How does tf2 spy work against scout huh?
Team
How does tf dagger light work against lights?
Team

[grave zodiac]

Are you mad that a instant kill one shot... is hard?

[still magnet]

I have 500h on dagger I guarantee you it’s not that easy

[plucky spade]

It's not your job actually

You relieve yourself of instakilling lights once you equip the dagger

Can we agree on that?

[still magnet]

No, I am mad about a movement penalty for using my weapon on the lowest hp while beeing pointblank requiring a backstab, but embark thinks my walking speed needs to be slower then a heavy

[grave zodiac]

Yeah that's why you play with your team in a team game

[grave zodiac]

I agree it's a bit slow, maybe should match medium, but you should not be moving at full light speed with an instant kill charged

[still magnet]

My solution is just make the penalty take place after I am done charing, currently you are slowed down for pressing charge IMMEDIATELY just make it after 0.81 second when I have it ready

[grave zodiac]

You know what, that's pretty fair.

[heady kindle]

Oh hey does anyone think there should be more visual clarity? I'll list some examples off

• aps should have a dome shaped range indicator instead of a flat circle
• gas should be easier to see through than smoke
• Data reshaper should have an indicator of its effective area where you point it
• ally mines should have a toggle to show the trigger range for ease of use (debatable, depends on where you want the skill gap)
• The effects for sonar effects and dashing should have a toggle to reduce the particles for accessibility (motion sickness, strobe effects, etc)

[grave zodiac]

Discourages just always holding a charge while also letting you catch up to people

[grave zodiac]

Data reshaper one is a need

[still magnet]

Yes

This is an image I posted couple times before

[heady kindle]

I'm gonna post that again every few days until we get more accessibility. The finals is too good to not get better

[grave zodiac]

Heavy grenade launcher should give you a bounce indicator when you scope in

[mystic nimbus]

note that while charging your dagger you're slower than heavy when they're charging their sledgehammer

[grave zodiac]

Yes this has been discussed

[heady kindle]

That's a good one. Same debate as the mines thing. Depends on where we want the skill gap.

I'm 100% for it

[plucky spade]

I didn't know that was that bad tbh

[mystic nimbus]

it's worse

since u need to do more work than just pressing m2

[plucky spade]

Bruh
Still
Facestabs are a thing so you don't get that much empathy

[mystic nimbus]

facestabs have been removed in 2.6

[still magnet]

I mean not really? I make dagger videos on YouTube and 1 of my 10000s of kills is a face stab

Every other kill for my pov is a regular backstab, here is my YT

https://youtu.be/cDkTNxnQMXU?si=t-RadUf3YN2WVqRU

[grave zodiac]

Also dagger has the same weird thing from tf2 where you can sidestab on one side, but the other sometimes won't even register backstabs

[plucky spade]

Huh
Ain't no way my internet is that bad

[mystic nimbus]

it's not your internet

it's called server desync and it sux for both u and the dagger user

[still magnet]

Wait I have an image, not a backstab btw

It goes both ways, bullshit for enemy’s bullshit for me

[mystic nimbus]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1213572237941284864/1303408365925306408/Dagger_moment_24.mp4?ex=6746abe2&is=67455a62&hm=eda22de99f05492d938e9a4c2e01227b80dd69fe6ab3cc6af7feb738b37d00c6&

just join this thread and see how shitty dagger is
https://discord.com/channels/1008696016318513243/1213572237941284864

[plucky spade]

Impressive shit ngl, but fuck you at the same time
( I'm just jealous I can't actually git gud )

[still magnet]

Dagger is so janky you can do this shit here

Also thx @plucky spade

[plucky spade]

That's on multiple frame hurtboxes

Hey it's gotta feel good at least

[still magnet]

Well yes, but let’s remove multi hit from dagger and keep it on sword btw

[plucky spade]

It didn't make sense on dagger, 320s all around is a bit too much

[still magnet]

?

[plucky spade]

Dealing a possible 1k with one click?

That's a bit much I think

[still magnet]

People can nullify my weapon by hugging the wall turning around and body blocking stealing teammates,

but sword can multi hit with a lingering hatbox…

[plucky spade]

Sword can't one shot

[plucky spade]

hehe hat

[still magnet]

Sword deals consistent 140 dmg i deal 50 dmg if someone decsides to turn around

Make a failed backstab deal 75 dmg like come on, I hit someone so hard for 75 only

[plucky spade]

Sword has it's own problems with cancelling and dashes

[plucky spade]

So what? 100 dmg for failed backstab?

[still magnet]

75

[plucky spade]

No I mean how much should it be

Be careful because you'll be close to sword territory

[heady kindle]

73. Don't open up 2 shots for lights on a failure, but still leave it so close that you can still catch that 2 shot bus if you hit em while they're damaged

[vale obsidian]

multi hit is just as powerful

[plucky spade]

Good luck 2 shotting a light with 2 charges

[plucky spade]

I'll have to agree on this one my bad

[vale obsidian]

hot take: model should 3 tap (cold) and cl40 should 2 tap (hot)
but that damage that let you 2 tap med with cl should be bonus damage and not base damage buff in genaral

[still magnet]

Yes it should be 75

[vale obsidian]

what is the dps of butter knifing with dagger?

[still magnet]

100 dps

[vale obsidian]

not.. bad at all

[still magnet]

Until you See how awfull the hit reg is, while also people play guns and shoot you with higher dos

[vale obsidian]

i mean its a good meme tactic

[still magnet]

You thinks butter knife Dps is good untill light uses stun gun

Medium jump pads

Heavy uses winch or charge

[vale obsidian]

i didn't say its good i say its not bad

but very funny tho imma fram ssome butter knife clip

[still magnet]

I have some butter knife clips in my yt

https://youtube.com/@gelzthefinals?si=gSgSSbjb18UEhpOV

[grave zodiac]

Cl40 needs nothing and should stay as a niche pick

[plucky spade]

One shot kill on airborne targets and i hear nothing else

[vale obsidian]

i want it to move away form being a noob gun

[vale obsidian]

what do yuo mean one shot

[grave zodiac]

If you remove the splash damage/reduce it it just becomes a arcing revolver

[plucky spade]

It simply deletes the player it hits if more than 10 meters off the ground and you're further away than 5 meters from the target

[vale obsidian]

exactly how i like it
i play cl40 for the hard to use projectile but ofc this kind of gun always have splash for no reason

[grave zodiac]

...because this kind of gun is normally a grenade launcher

[plucky spade]

Nobody goes for flying targets that's why im saying that

[grave zodiac]

Maybe just give it like a 2x headshot multiplier when off the ground

[plucky spade]

I just want light fireworks 50 meters in the air is that too much?

[vale obsidian]

on a splash weapon?

[grave zodiac]

Then it synergies with anti grav

[plucky spade]

Direct hit

[grave zodiac]

It only splashes on contact

[vale obsidian]

im trying to find a clip rn

burh the app might've delete it thats suck

i was hitting air shot after airshot on people fighting on jump pad burh\

this clip will do

[plucky spade]

Chef's kiss
The gaming community should be ashamed for leaving games like this to rot

[vale obsidian]

its not even that hard for new player
you can play vs ez bot

[plucky spade]

Bu but it's hard bro
Arena shooters ar hard bro
They they uh they

[vale obsidian]

check this out lol

[plucky spade]

Average codworm inflicted individual

[plucky spade]

LeL

Peak gaming was instagib duels in 5 sqm maps with your the other 4 guys in your team respecting the 1v1

And taking turns 1v1ing
No gadgets no bullshit just point and click good
And move even better

[vale obsidian]

that sound so fun lol

[plucky spade]

Yeah oddly enough a corridor with two corners to hide and respawn on was funner than cod die respawn cycle

Maybe that's rose tinted glasses

[mellow ridge]

Make Defib take two gadget slots. It’s game changing, it should have a drawback. Maybe you won’t see 3 zombie mediums running around being maniacs

[normal marsh]

I think if you made it so defib respawn means you cant be healed for 3-5 secs would change a lot but also its been nerfed heavy from instant to delayed and full hp to half

[plucky spade]

It's a whole other person up in seconds

[normal marsh]

Yes im not saying it isnt powerful but what else can you do to it without removing it? theyve already done a lot

it doesnt reload weapons either so unless your really good at communicating things like that you often get rez just to get farmed

[plucky spade]

The thing is it's faster than a normal revive whilst it also frees you to do w/e you want

[normal marsh]

I know but what can they do to it? revive at 1 health or 50 so your even lower? make revive time longer and then its still an issue in a 1v1 where you just keep running after hitting your teammate and your opp. can choose to follow and have a guy behind him or follow and finish you.

[vale obsidian]

i've saw a suggestion to rework it and i thought its pretty good
its form either Trent | nerf model or RS___C

it was: when you get defib it respawn you like when you use coin but much closer

form 300meter away to 100-200

[normal marsh]

i think that still makes it an issue because then your transported to safety and potentially close enough to reenter fight for cashout invis if your light instead of being in danger of a bad rez

[normal marsh]

also ive never been spawned 300 meters from obj does that actually happen?

[vale obsidian]

very commonly yes

[normal marsh]

damn ive had some 200m spawns but usually only if teamwipe when cash was about to finish

[vale obsidian]

team wipe will always spawn you as far as possible

[normal marsh]

well damn anyways 300 is crazy

[normal marsh]

not to shut down your idea i think this is interesting just pointing out what might be an issue with that

[vale obsidian]

the idea behind that is that it prevent you form mass rezing

one guy res, that guy just spawn and also res

[normal marsh]

yeah ive definitely been apart of that and seen it happen in my face and its def. rage inducing

i think lower health would help alot 25/50/75 for L/M/H

[vale obsidian]

and cut the Regen time off the res in half to cus that sound so annoying

[plucky spade]

And remove the invisibility at the start

Rezzed in front of the whole team? You get domed instantly

[vale obsidian]

Nah uh
that stuff have to stay to avoid frustration for the res person

A teammate res you in the middle of no where and you have to get to cover with 50 HP and no invisibility

[plucky spade]

I don't want mediums being morons with their defibs anymore

[vale obsidian]

Although yeah what we have rn is a bit long

[plucky spade]

They shouldn't be incredible idiots, their teammate is another gun, not an infinite health body shield

( for 0.5 seconds )

Anyways it shouldn't have invisibility end of story

[vale obsidian]

but the idiot keep resing you and you keep dying, there's nothing you can do

[plucky spade]

Bad revives dont get punished enough

[plucky spade]

They should learn when the time comes for a fucking teamwipe instead of further delaying it

It's so mindless rn it's mind boggling

[vale obsidian]

I'm not defending the idiot
I'm saying that you can not do anything at all when put in that situation

There should at least a change for you to make it out

[plucky spade]

Unlucky, just another teammate heavy shoving you out the map

You always pay for your teams idiocy

This doesn't change anything except properly punish you

[vale obsidian]

properly punishing solo quer for not rolling a good teammate rng

[plucky spade]

Doesn't this always happen?

Everytime your teammates leave you alone to fight the 1v3 for the cashout because uh um light 200m away

[vale obsidian]

That situation you can always outplay people, but you can't out play 3 people looking at you respawning in the middle of nowhere while you're 50 hp

[normal marsh]

im not trying to be rude but it sounds like your only thinking with your frustrations and emotions at the forefront and not trying to come up with a way to better the util. for the whole game. your just saying this is annoying it makes me frustrated bad person for using it and complaining instead of trying to give good ways to make it less oppressive besides just taking it out of the game.

Like if your facing 3M and you know they spam rezzing use gas mines to cause DOT on people trying to repawn and the person being respawned. Taking away visibility and potentially killing the rezzed person.

[plucky spade]

May be, but still this suicide rezzing is not being punished enough

[vale obsidian]

i can agree with this

[plucky spade]

Also this isn't even that effective because you can simply pull the statue away, this won't work, not to mention depending on the circumstance this gives them even more cover

Also you're given a second chance for playing like a moron and dying in the middle of the enemy team

[ashen hawk]

Sorry to say, but all the videos on reddit showing people with heavy shotguns or meelees using charge n slam to get close to opponents, and all the times I've done that myself or heard from other ppl doing that, would like to tell you:
"Skill Issue"

But dont worry just to make this arguement constructive, here's some tips:

• When you're using a meelee weapon, make sure NOT to bash on the ground at the end of charge n slam because it might give ur opponents time to get more distance and might not do enough damage. It's better to keep the momentum going
• When ur using shotgun or flamethrower, make sure to bash on the ground at the end of charge n slam because you still have some range with the guns and can deal damage, even if you lose some momentum get a bit far apart.
• Make sure to have an rpg just in case they try to dash or grapple away with few hp remaining
• Make sure to have a barricade to stop them from dashing after you do charge n slam and try to hit them.

[fleet brook]

Me

Something feels unintuitive to me

Other people "Skill issue"

[vale obsidian]

and now we circle back to msg

[ashen hawk]

Just get all abilities on cooldown when you get defibbed so that a defibbed guy cant defib the guy that defibbed him an died.

Simple.

[fleet brook]

Also I run full destruction/ arena manipulation when I play CnS

[plucky spade]

Oh wait that's good

[ashen hawk]

yeah too much fun

[plucky spade]

Based

[ashen hawk]

idk why i didnt see anyone saying this

[vale obsidian]

imma put that in game feed back rn ngl

[ashen hawk]

thnx it is needed
hopefully embark sees

[warm merlin]

honestly yeah that's a pretty good idea

Maybe half-cooldown to be generous

but I like where the head is at

[ashen hawk]

lmao yea it would still make the problem solved

[plucky spade]

Never thought of that tbh that's pretty good

[ashen hawk]

thnxx

[ashen hawk]

we need ppl to see this

EMBARK

[plucky spade]

Game feedback post incoming

[ashen hawk]

lol

[plucky spade]

Nah for real this game be feeling like battlefield with the amount of rezzes

[north snow]

so actually why is taser still a thing, like genuinely its gotta be the most complained about thing by a long shot, even more then the heavy's rpg, like if we're talking heavies walking around like its their primary weapon, lights are shooting off 40 tazes a match, i feel like there's definitely gotta be a reality where we dont need too suffer from it

[fleet brook]

I think theres a problem in a game when the fun way to play it is the worst

You're having too much fun or attempting to shouldn't be a heavy limiter in games

[vale obsidian]

my guess is that its isn't enough complaining or isn't as servia as recon sense or nuke to be pulled out or gutted

[north snow]

so the solution is complain more

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/shh-cats-gif-14317670277085954258

[stone helm]

67

[ashen hawk]

wha no
thats not what i meant by "too much fun"

ofc i dont want to limit heavies theyre my fav class to have in a team-- as a med main

[toxic plover]

dear god revert mesh shield nurf

feels terrible

[vale obsidian]

it still very good
just take a bit of getting used too

the key is to only use it in key situation like low health or protecting teammate when you can't do damage

[toxic plover]

@vale obsidiannah the cooldown is too punishing

[vale obsidian]

natural cover is your shield my friend

[urban coral]

Can this shotgun meta piss off

[shut bane]

If it isn’t shotguns it’ll be smg’s

[plain wasp]

I'd rather anything over shotguns

[vale obsidian]

real

[urban coral]

MAC-11 is the only SMG that's an issue. MP5 was nerfed into dust.

[plain wasp]

M11 has no range

[urban coral]

SMGs you at least have to track with. Shotguns are just click twice for a free kill.

[shut bane]

Xp is still easier to use than fcar lol

[urban coral]

The damage is so bad it doesn't matter.

[shut bane]

Believe it or not you do need well placed shots with shotguns as well, they’re just more effective at their ranges

[urban coral]

I disagree

[shut bane]

[urban coral]

I have used the 1887 plenty and it's just two clicks in the enemy's general direction for a free kill.

[plain wasp]

I don't even have shotguns unlocked

[shut bane]

Model isn’t bad but it’s about on par with lights shotguns now

[plain wasp]

3x the ammo too

[shut bane]

I’d argue db and matter are more effective and forgiving personally

[urban coral]

And they're just as annoying.

[shut bane]

Well shotguns are just something you’re gonna need to adapt to as they exist and they’ll always be the play for really close cqc as a light player you should know how to create enough distance to render them ineffective easily so long as you don’t forget to shoot back lol

[urban coral]

It at least shouldn't be in ranked.

How many times are you going to edit that message

[shut bane]

Woah bro chill

[urban coral]

?

[vale obsidian]

honestly skill issue

[restive plover]

M11 is fine where it is.

[restive plover]

That's the problem given that it's on medium.

[shut bane]

Not this again bro

Gn bros

[restive plover]

My (misrepresented) statement has been attached to a soyjak image.

It is truly over for me.

[fleet brook]

The DB is fun the matter is a crutch

[fleet brook]

Pike over model honestly

Missing a shot /clipping a target with the DB usually means you're running for your life

Clipping/missing with the matter doesn't mean much unless you're low on ammo

[spark igloo]

4.8.0 spec tier list but move mesh to B

[shut bane]

Wee bit subjective TBH

[shut bane]

I think it depends on your gadget personally, dash easily lets you stall enough time to get another two shots out but with cloak or grapple yeah you’re fucked lol

I think the most satisfying part of the db is one tapping another light

[drowsy pasture]

Ain't no way

[spark igloo]

It's for comp just to make that clear

[shut bane]

even then I personally would take dash over grapple but thats just me

[limber gull]

https://tenor.com/view/icp-insane-clown-posse-insane-clown-posse-gif-20142690

[sacred socket]

i love revolver

[urban coral]

It was fine before the recoil buff.

[tranquil rose]

I think cuz dash is just more confortable to use, even though I see situations where grapple would’ve be a better choice

[restive plover]

If it was fine then it's fine now. Set recoil patterns mean nothing if you just practice the weapon.

[grave zodiac]

I would say M11 is a little wack and skill less, but that's probably just salt for it being the main pick for light

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/guh-stare-gif-4094844416938518680

if m11 is skill less then all gun and weapon is skillless

[grave zodiac]

Revolver and even model you have to hit flicks, dagger you have to get backstab to actually work,sledgehammer you have to have good movement and positioning

M11 you hit q to dash on someone, hold left click till they are gone, then hit q to leave

[vale obsidian]

tracking is not skillful?

[grave zodiac]

Shit has such a big mag and is so accurate you barely need to track, and if you engage with advantage (which you should always do as light) it just eats people before they can react

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/nick-young-huh-what-confused-question-mark-gif-17888030

[hallow leaf]

I agree m11 needs fucking nerfed, either make its damage lower or something

[grave zodiac]

I agree, make "is damage" or something

[restive plover]

I won't argue that it's terribly demanding, but most weapons aren't and I don't think that really needs to change.

Lh1 and the matter are better picks besides.

[grave zodiac]

Yeah that's why I said it is just salt, it's just really annoying losing because I missed once while the light just holds left click

[tranquil rose]

Nama, what's your opinion about the state of melee weapons?

Is it in a good spot?

[spark igloo]

It didn't get a recoil buff

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/cutecore-toll-gif-14989780945369042465

[grave zodiac]

Bro was too mentally taxed from holding left click to come up with an actual response, the state of light players

[vale obsidian]

that is not an "actual response" either

[restive plover]

Kind of. Sledge and sword are fine more or less, the weird nerfs they got ought to be reverted though. Dagger is a gimmicky one shot weapon that I don't believe should ever be truly good. Spear could use some love.

Riot and dual blades are both terrible and I don't know how you would remedy that without further fucking up class design so 🤷‍♂️

[tranquil rose]

So is melee not that strong? Or just niche? Or just weird do measure it out

[restive plover]

So long as guns exist it's next to impossible to avoid melee being niche.

[grave zodiac]

Idk why they removed multi hit from sledge to be honest, it's kinda stupid that just standing inside of eachother soft counters sledge

[tranquil rose]

Alright, thank you very much for answering!

[fleet brook]

If you're new to shooters or less then advanced it is a skill after awhile of playing shooters it becomes automatic memory

[vale obsidian]

can say the same for flicking

but thats skillful somehow

[fleet brook]

Tbf the revolver skill is dealing with visual recoil

[vale obsidian]

god damn visual recoil lol

[heady kindle]

Follow through damage would have been better

First target takes 100%
Second takes 75%
Third takes 50%
Etc

That would solve sword over poweredness too

[grave zodiac]

Fr

[heady kindle]

Dual swords should have much better follow through since... there's 2 weapons. It makes sense to me. You lose power in a swing as you hit things, but you don't if the thing doing the hitting isn't the same each hit

The final hit in the combo should do more damage too. When you cross the blades sure you effectively moot one of the blades, but you return the physical force that comes with using both hands on a single weapon.

Thus, the single blade becomes as effective as 2 at once, which would solve the gameplay issue of that last hit in the combo being 1 less hit than the rest for no reason.

Dual swords fixed. Pay me 15 multibucks embark

[tranquil rose]

I think what screws over dual swords is not be able to catch up and also take damage while reflecting, you're kinda a class that don't have a burst of mobility or something to close the gap fast enough for it to work :/

Even if they increase the damage but not do anything with it's mobility I still highly doubt people would use it more

[heady kindle]

I think medium and heavy have no way at all to close distance.

Mediums movement gadgets are not viable for something like that 9 times out of ten, especially due to the cooldown.

Heavy has charge slam I guess, but it's not the greatest.

Lights ease of movement is way too much higher than the other classes for them to ever be good at melee

[tranquil rose]

You're forgetting something xD

Heavy has winch and goo gun! Both of those things help a bunch! I've been massacred by a heavy that use goo gun specialiazation, locked me in and exploded me with the hammer

Medium atm is the only class that has nothing to help him out, but perhaps next season they might introduce something about it because I really think all his specializations are in a good spot, or at least usable

[hazy spoke]

dk what it is but i feel like the playerbase got wayyyyy better. last season i was able to clutch 1v3 with ease (only sniper) but now its like a whole therapy to fight only one. either the people got at least 2x as good or there are a GIANT amount of hackers in the game. i mean its good in terms of having a reason to improve further but i actually feel like everyone is pro in this game xdd. have you made similar experiences?

[tranquil rose]

Is a bit of both actually, the ones that stayed are pretty much the people dedicated to the game. The other ones might be aimboting but you can't quite tell since the lack of kill cams, so you kinda report and hope that you're right

[indigo cedar]

The ks-23 takes down platforms in 0,01 seconds

[mystic nimbus]

ks & rpg?

[tulip grove]

You'd then be either wasting your RPG cooldown on taking down a structure that needs two beams snapped to drop it or use a weapon that specifically possesses arena damage qualities and demands a higher skill floor to get value out of compared to the other weapons outside of destruction

[mystic nimbus]

or just use red barrels?

[tulip grove]

those do appear pretty frequently tbh

[mystic nimbus]

nuh uh

[plain wasp]

Only when you're not looking for them

[fleet brook]

Ks sucks and rpg is on a 1/2 a minute CD

Also charge is good for destruction

[mystic nimbus]

we're talking about long range destruction

[restive plover]

First correct redditor in history.

[bitter surge]

Gun is very niche and unreliable..
plus we are talking about the gadgets and the class as a whole not weapons specifically 🙏

[indigo cedar]

So you just want a destruction tool with infinite range, multiple shots and zero drawbacks ? That's not how the game works
Loadouts are all about commitment bro

[tulip grove]

no one also uses data reshaper to spawn red canisters

[bitter surge]

When did i say that ?!

[tidal hollow]

Heavy has better cashout manipulation if you commit to it

Gravity cube + winch and a destruction tool can move the cashout anywhere

[indigo cedar]

That'd mean sacrificing two light gadget slots just for the sake of having slightly better destruction abilities than a heavy, nobody does that outside of Cardboard rank lobbies and throwaway casual loadouts
Dematerializer is a single ability and pretty much does the same thing any other explosive can, except that you can repair walls after breaching them

[viscid ibex]

fr bro and i main light and even i think its ridiculous

[tidal hollow]

Definitely S-tier weapon

[sand monolith]

M11 isn’t even the 2nd best weapon on light

Hell it’s not even the best weapon in its niche on light

It’s arguably the most balanced gun on the class right alongside the m26 matter

[hallow leaf]

It's not balanced at all. It's more broken then the model, and they both need a nerf

[sand monolith]

How is it not balanced

What about it is overpowered and why

[plain wasp]

It's clearly not balanced because it requires 8m range to be effective

[hallow leaf]

It's ttk is too fast it needs lower damage or a slower fire rate, or hell even both but the m11 needs nerfed

[sand monolith]

I’d hope it kills fast, the drop off is 10m

[plain wasp]

Hey that's less than the model isn't it?

[sand monolith]

That’s kinda the point of the weapon

[sand monolith]

Yes!

[plain wasp]

Doesn't the model also do more damage?

[sand monolith]

Yes!

I’m sorry the m11 is just not overpowered at all. It’s a high risk and high reward weapon. Being right next to the opponent while also having the lowest HP in the game as the only way to deal any considerable amount of damage is worthy of fast ttk

If you can’t punish the light player for being up in your face, that’s your fault

[hallow leaf]

If that's the case then let's buff the revolver to to 75 damage instead of 74. If s light gets one shot by it, it's their fault for having low health

[sand monolith]

how is that even remotely comparable

[hallow leaf]

They should have used that movement to avoid the headshot

[sand monolith]

except for movement is something thats countered by skill. not vice versa

(this is why dash is universally agreed to be terrible by top players)

[gleaming loom]

hello

[plain wasp]

Hey

[restive plover]

wassup

[indigo cairn]

jump pad

[iron zenith]

zip line buddy

[surreal canopy]

As much as I agree, I'm also really fucking tired of shotguns in this game and tbf wouldn't mind seeing it in the dirt. But nvm we getting a new shotgun.

[languid raft]

I need someone to rate my build, I'm relatively new. I run the AKM with sight, healing specialty, defibrillator, jump pad, and Pyro grenade, for context, I run with a 3 stack.

What can I do to improve it

Nvm, a 9is good

[restive plover]

Change out pyro grenades for frags, and akm for either famas or model.

[languid raft]

I really like the AKM, even over the Fcar, anything else I will change

[restive plover]

Akm is okay as a weapon, but the model breaks medium and the famas beats it in every category.

Pyro grenades are just not that great.

Everything else is best in slot. Glitch traps are also something to consider replacing pyro grenades with.

[languid raft]

I had been running them, but I tend to be very aggressive so they don't really do as much for me I feel

[restive plover]

10% at the very least. None of the differences are dramatic but it's better at everything.

Actually the range extension is pretty significant.

[rancid horizon]

pretty please revert dagger r2 change its really depressing to use rn

[royal pier]

How about dome-like gadget for Light that bounces projectiles back at the one who threw them?

APS being the only anti-projectile gadget is an issue, since frags are plentiful these days.

[royal pier]

Imo, the hipfire is the biggest problem. But I think you know that I think that.

[restive plover]

What, on the famas?

[royal pier]

It can be better at range, but why does the FAMAS also have the best hipfire as well?

[restive plover]

Yeah the cones aren't really that well thought out.

Although I think fcar still has the tightest by a very small margin.

[royal pier]

The FCAR having the highest recoil makes it already well suited to be the AR with the best hipfire.

[royal pier]

I'd make it just a smidgen better, and make the FAMAS' worse by a bit.

That would give all three ARs a different playstyle.

[restive plover]

Nah, akm should get it for having the shortest range. The opposite for the famas.

Fcar gets a recoil readjustment and a cone that sits between them, among other changes.

[restive plover]

It would take more than that.

[royal pier]

AKM is the perfect middle ground atm. Lower recoil, but less potent at the range the FAMAS excels at, with a larger mag.

Make the FCAR the closer range AR, and they all have a niche.

Crouched FAMAS hipfire is basically like playing CS.

[restive plover]

Except the fcar is already better over mid range. Not quite enough to matter, usually. But it is better. The recoil is just kind of annoying.

[royal pier]

The AKM being ok at everything, but best at nothing, makes it probably the most balanced weapon in the game.

[royal pier]

Smaller mag makes it less forgiving.

[restive plover]

The rifles should be a gradient of range specialties from akm being basically only a smidge above short range to pike effectively being long range only.

[restive plover]

So? It still has the better falloff of the two.

[royal pier]

It would also keep it having a tighter hipfire cone (or maybe lower movement penalties) from becoming oppressive.

[royal pier]

You see more AKM than FCAR for a reason, imo.

FCAR does already have good hipfire, but that's why I'd just reinforce that so there's a reason to take it over the FAMAS.

[restive plover]

Like I said, the difference at midrange is small. And over other ranges the performance is nearly identical because of how the nerf was botched.

I would much prefer leaning into what they were originally supposed to be.

[royal pier]

Let FAMAS be the mid range headshot king.

The Pike could use a "sweet spot" mechanic that DICE made use of in Battlefield. It would mean it does the damage it currently does in close range, then at long distance it deals more.

[royal pier]

I think the ship for them sticking to their original roles has sailed.

Mostly because the AKM is just...balanced. messing with it would be a mistake imo.

[vocal island]

wtf ist that stungun range?!

[restive plover]

I disagree on akm. It's been underpowered since launch; famas got all of one buff in season three and was instantly better. It just also has the misfortune of sharing space with absolutely absurd weapons(old fcar, current model) and happens to look perfectly reasonable by comparison.

+1 damage and the tightest hipfire cone in exchange for a range reduction, more punchy and better fits it's role.

And just because embark keeps making mistakes in how they handle roles of both classes and weapons doesn't mean we should stick with them, or that we can get healthy balance out of it.

[royal pier]

That change just makes it better than the FCAR.

[restive plover]

The fcar would also get a major rework.

I had a writeup of what I would do to each rifle, one moment.

For the akm I'd like to see it trade hipfire cones with the fcar and get bumped up to 21 damage. Then have it's falloff range change to 28-35 meters instead of 30-37.5 alongside 50% damage at maximum falloff. This is all to make it punchier while enforcing it as the shortest range rifle.

Fcar should go down to 490(from the current 540) rpm, in exchange getting it's old 25 damage and 20 ammo back. It keeps the 55% modifier at max falloff, and the aforementioned hipfire trade with the akm(this is a nerf).

Famas is in need of the least changes. It should simply have no horizontal recoil and a 60% modifier at maximum falloff range. In addition, a significantly larger hipfire cone.

As of late I'm on the fence about fcar's damage. Hard to get a fire rate that kills mediums and heavies in a reasonable amount of time without going too quickly on lights. A possible alternative is something like 24 damage, 510-520 rpm, and 22 ammo.

[royal pier]

Sorry, but I don't see Embark reworking the ARs to that level. Early launch? Maybe.

[restive plover]

[urban coral]

It did in like season one or two.

#newgen

[spark igloo]

find the patch note

[tired minnow]

they should remove the annoying light wapons, light has extras

[sand monolith]

The takes in this server have only gotten worse since launch Jesus

[warm jackal]

Should they add a mask in the game? Like a mast that prevents gas and lowers the damage of headshots? Maybe it can be a gadget for all classes

[restive plover]

No, especially on the headshots. Gas already has a counter in fire.

[drowsy pasture]

This idea sucks don't suggest it again

[warm jackal]

I mean when fire is deployed, gas will be gone but fire will still be there

[drowsy pasture]

Smoke extinguishes fire

[warm jackal]

I know, but it can drive people simpler and make the game more complex by letting people fight in gas

[drowsy pasture]

Skill issue

[restive plover]

That's not more complexity, it lets you ignore an aspect of the game you would have to somehow interact with otherwise. You're simplifying it.

[warm jackal]

NO~ It is when some of you can fight in gas and some of you can't

[warm jackal]

Bruh, nobody is talking about fighting in gas like a pro or not. It is just for more conditions and situations

[drowsy pasture]

That's such a stupid reason to add an item like that. Something that makes it easier to counter and already easy to counter thing is unnecessary and all it does it spoon feed bad players bro

Also the lower hs damage thing is really dumb

[warm jackal]

NOT counter. And hs damage is just a concept, not as important as gas.

[drowsy pasture]

Gas isn't even an issue

Is does piss damage and can be tanked

[warm jackal]

NOT ISSUE. It is just for people fight in and out the gas

[drowsy pasture]

So a smoke?

[restive plover]

This absolutely is a counter lmao. You can't use gas against a person that has this.

[warm jackal]

Maybe I guess, then.

[restive plover]

And why should people be able to fight in gas? It's area denial, let it deny the area.

[warm jackal]

It doesn't damage you, so you can fight within even with thermal vision

[drowsy pasture]

It's a dumb idea bro

[warm jackal]

Sure

[drowsy pasture]

Add me on steam

[restive plover]

When I'm at my computer again I suppose I will.

[drowsy pasture]

Ok my steam is linked in my profile

[warm jackal]

Should duel blades be able to deflect when attacking? Or should it deal damage when gets pulled out?(The animation looks like that)

[shut bane]

Yeah idk why It swings when you pull them out but it’s a bit annoying

I don’t mind them not deflecting as you attack but if like I’d the deflect itself was a bit more accurate

An attack speed change would be nice instead though

[warm jackal]

Agree. Maybe the last strike has a higher damage

[ashen hawk]

yessssssss

[analog crescent]

The heavy shield, but as one spot gets repeatedly shot it weakens til it eventually punctures and one can hit through that puncture hole. It doesn't lose health directly from getting shot but instead from regenerating those weakened areas. The regeneration process has to be manually activated and cannot be activated while actively taking damage. Thoughts?

[tidal hollow]

It would be trash on its own. Add it to thermal vision instead

Since one problem right now is that it's hella hard to see gas while using it

[vale obsidian]

this will only work if the middle of the shield have more health to protect you or un breckable other wise it be even worst then it already is

next question is how will dose spot be place

[analog crescent]

Something like a combination of bottom middle and top right. This would decrease the area of protection so the heavy could take damage from more angles. I feel like this would increase the skill gap a bit more rather than the tank getting even more health with one button press. I don't think it would make it that much worse, simply would require more brain power.

[hushed crown]

thats kind of the point of smoke & thermal vision

[hushed crown]

ive mained m11 since the start of s4, and im gonna be honest, its not too op, but its one of if not the best light weapon. though i think its comparable to the db shotgun and v9s

[plucky spade]

Do not touch the cooking apparati again

[rich flame]

I wasn't really having fun with Heavy until I got the KS-23, that thing is so much fun

[vale obsidian]

that thing 2 tap light with the fire rate of minigun burh

[rich flame]

It doesn't fire awfully fast tho

[vale obsidian]

bc of breck point light need to tread every shot form that gun like a model

[rich flame]

And its balanced out by light being extremely difficult to hit, especially with a single projectile with travel time

I remember I was struggling to kill this obnoxious DB dash light until I noticed that they always expend all their dash charges to retreat so as long as they ended up in my field of view I could almost always predict where they would end up and I could line up a crisp 100 damage slug

[hushed crown]

dont you dare complain about the ks23 its the most balanced weapon by far

i mean i havent used it in a long while but yk

[rich flame]

Also everything kills lights quick

[vale obsidian]

honestly i won't complain about light dying so fast if dash isn't so bad
(compare to other game)

[rich flame]

Compared to other games wtf are you talking about, I haven't even owned the game for a week and I can tell you dash is very powerful for skirmishes

[vale obsidian]

its storng but it get counter by good aim bc it have such slow travel time for dashes

you can legit track a light throw his dash

[rich flame]

Everything gets countered by good aim

[vale obsidian]

this one thing is THE One thing that shouldn't be counter by good aim

and cloak is THE One thing that shouldn't be counter by good eyes

[rich flame]

yeah it should, if you cant counter it with your weapon skill than what the actual hell are you supposed to do when you get into a gunfight with a dash light?

light already has the smallest hitbox and fastest movement speed, and high dps on top of that

[vale obsidian]

im not saying dash should make you unkillable
im saying that you should not be able to kill a light mid dash

like tracer form overwatch

also the dash is so dank

it have an input delay for no reason at all andd it have acceleration

[arctic compass]

Tracer can get killed mid blink its just really fast

[vale obsidian]

that one im fine with cus itss so rare

[rich flame]

but not with

i do not understand your logic

[vale obsidian]

yeah cuss the dash we have its so common to be killed mid dash

[vale obsidian]

dash is like a parry, if you hit the parry window and get hit anyways its frustrating

[lavish blaze]

you are not meant to have invulneravility frames during dash, it would be broken af; its just a movement tool

[vale obsidian]

i never say it should have an invis frame ??????????????????

im saying getting kill in the middle of a dash should not be so common

[rich flame]

it would be EXTREMELY unfun to have a light dash into you, blast you down instantly with the DB, and dash back out if it was nearly impossible to punish or read a dash

its already unfun for that to happen in the current state of dash

[vale obsidian]

thats a db issue imo

db is it own can of worm

[rich flame]

it applies to all close quarters weapons, dash in, dump damage, GTFO as soon as they start shooting back

its already extremely obnoxious to fight

it dosent need to be any more frustrating

[arctic compass]

Just dont dash in front of people who can aim?????

Or just dont be predictable i main dash and dont have your problem

[vale obsidian]

thats just the nature of light
if you want that gone light gonna need a rework as a whole

[vale obsidian]

what if the entire lobby is that person who can aim?
what do i do?
don't dash inn fort of anyone at all?

play far away but they have range vs me
play close to be evasive then they have the aim on me

[rich flame]

than pick your fights, or just aim better than them

i hate to be that guy but
Skill Issue

[vale obsidian]

what fight there to be pick if everyone can track you throw all your dash

[rich flame]

"oh that person can kick my ass i should leave as fast as possible and fight them when i have the advantage"

[arctic compass]

thats literally the light mindset 😭

[vale obsidian]

then i'll be usless on the side line cus that time when i have an advantage is so rare
it usually when my team go in to make the enemy low but we talking solo q here, all my team do is feed one by one

[rich flame]

light has the power of positioning, if you take a fair fight as light you have already made a mistake

[vale obsidian]

i already said my problem 🤷‍♂️

[rich flame]

and i said the solution, as much as i hate to be that guy, the solution is Get Good

if you cant be winning your gunfights, thats a you problem

[arctic compass]

3 stacking op sob

Its just how it is i see where ur coming from you just gotta outplay em

[rich flame]

you dont even have to have the numbers advantage, light, as the most mobile class in the game, should always be looking for the position advantage

[vale obsidian]

and you already know what happen next
they turn around and hit me with model

i have to dash away as soon as i do 10 damage

[rich flame]

outplayed, dont get so close to a 1887 user, soften them up with your gadgets, better yet, go pick on someone else who dosent hard counter you

[vale obsidian]

the f you mean someone else
all people use is model

https://tenor.com/view/scout-goes-insane-gif-25382090

[rich flame]

than stick next to your team if thats not working, people can only shoot in one direction after all

you dont even have to kill them, you can lob a frag or a sonar or one of the many other things light can do that will help out your team

you have options

[plush wyvern]

is the model still the best medium weapon after the nerf?

[rich flame]

the update JUST came out

give it like, a day

[torn mantle]

Its the best medium weapon to deal with both heavies and lights, dunno about agaisnt mediums tough

[plucky spade]

Normalised to x shots + qm

[bitter surge]

F**k MODEL ❤️

[plucky spade]

1 shot + qm
2shot + qm
3 shots for heavy

[plucky spade]

If you main heavy nothing changes

Why the pellet increase? Couldn't get the dmg numbers right?

[bitter surge]

Yeah i know but it will be a bit less aggressive

[torn mantle]

Honestly I think this nerf was aimed more towards ranked then casual, since there there were almost entierly model mainers

[rich flame]

unrelated irrelevant nitpick but for some unfathomable reason i dont like that this community calls it "Model" and not "1887" like everyone else does

[torn mantle]

Nerf 1887. Bad year

[rich flame]

nerf the model, too many polygons

[plucky spade]

Now you'll have to be even more aggressive because you gotta get the qm

[torn mantle]

No, no, here's the thing. Model now will probably get countered by most M weapons. Aka I wont have to deal with lobbies with 10 ppl with model (happened once in power shift, I also switched to model then because hell, was a nightmare)

[plucky spade]

The thing is, why tighten the outer circle?

[rich flame]

ill never complain about a more consistent spread in a game

[torn mantle]

Its outer circle had a very odd shape, a square. I think npw its more circular

(It was the only weapon like this)

[plucky spade]

Thing is it's supposed to be a shotgun, not a med range dmr with no sights

[rich flame]

they also added a guaranteed center pellet, probably to push out its range but still nerf the damage

[torn mantle]

Im happy with the nerf tbh.

[plucky spade]

Like beyond 15 meters it should not be viable just like the double barrel and the sa12

[torn mantle]

The double barrel isnt viable from like 5m 💀

[plucky spade]

DO NOT CUT THE SA1216's NAME NUMBERS

[rich flame]

well the Medium class is supposed to be the jack of all trades, limiting a weapon to JUST close quarters is kinda counter to the classes puropse isnt it?

[plucky spade]

You get what I mean

[torn mantle]

Ahem, riot shield

[lofty sky]

I want to make a small rant about the revolver again. Give me more range please! It has the second lowest dmg per mag in the game. I know it is suposed to be middle range weapon but god damn give me some more range please. The shotguns are better at close combat, the spike and lh1 are better at range. It leaves the revolver in a weird spot. I dont want crazy sniper range but a bit better than it is now.

[plucky spade]

That is very true

[torn mantle]

I wish the revolver had better hipfire personally

[plucky spade]

Me thinks it's a case of the pikes

[rich flame]

i did outsnipe a sniper light on the Crane in Seoul with the 357 once and that was cool

[lofty sky]

Just to rant a bit more, the Lh1 has a crazy dmg per mag, you can spam it at close with no worries and has range. I feel like its not really fair or something should be changed

[plucky spade]

Yes

[torn mantle]

Not really since pike was good for all ranges, revolver has low range and horrible hipfire

[plucky spade]

I mean regarding hipfire requiring you to sit still or crouched

[lofty sky]

Those moments are amazing. I love this weapon,. Its my favoritt but I need to rant about it too. Thank you for coming to my ted rant

[torn mantle]

Still its quite bad

[plucky spade]

Tbh with how inconsistent it feels I can't really judge when it feels like you're firing a real gun and you need to shoot when the iron sights are aligned

[torn mantle]

Petition to give riot shield 16x scope

[copper sinew]

irl shotguns can hit people pretty accurately up to 55 meters. Model can from like 20 meters at best. It is still a far cry, but I do love me when shotguns in game are more realistic rather than a one-shot stick that turns into a fart rod past 2 meters

[rich flame]

and thats why i usually stick to slug shotguns in video games

[torn mantle]

Irl you cant summon shields and create portals-

[dreamy sage]

Irl shotguns op, plz nerf

[plucky spade]

True it's just unexpected for the way they were going with it, like in an earlier patch they nerfed its long range

[rich flame]

Germany thought the same thing

[dreamy sage]

Geneva was the ones to nerf it though werent they?

Holy shit, could you imagine a slamfire shotgun in the finals? Please embark, may we have some spicy war crime in our game?

[plucky spade]

And you don't bleed coins when shot

[copper sinew]

yeah, coz they thought that would help, but it didn't so they are exchanging that for a damage nerf. Also they might have thought they have overnerfed the range and they are fixing that.

It is not like this is a revert, because they nerfed both outer and inner rings, but they are now only buffing the outter one

[plucky spade]

Also fr what was the new med shotgun they showed in the picture for S5?

[dreamy sage]

Speculations points too, triple barrled dragon breath

[plucky spade]

Ok ok makes sense
Eating lights from xp54 range here i come

[dreamy sage]

So, place your bets. Which weapon is next on the chopping block?

[rich flame]

i want it to be the throwing knives but im gonna guess deagles

and pike

[copper sinew]

I don't think there will be any, but if anything Famas does feel like it is noticeably better than other ARs

[plucky spade]

If you hit your headshots

[rich flame]

many people hate using 3 round burst fire by default and i havent seen it used a much as other medium weapons, than again im still new so my opinion may change with time

[dreamy sage]

TK's are very infuriating to fight against. every other ranged weapon has a downtime/reload but you can just spam those indefinitly.
I'd love to see a stamina system for them that if overdone halves their rof or something.

[torn mantle]

I had an idea for TKs, but I want to get a few more opinions

[plucky spade]

Yeah like give me a window to juke their next knives

Buuuut still I dont think they are that bad

[rich flame]

i think its the combo of alt fire throw followed up by the unending spam that is the most frustrating

[vale obsidian]

how much dose tk right click body shot damage?

[torn mantle]

So essentially you fire two bursts of knives rapidly, then small delay, another knife, then reload / long delay

[copper sinew]

I feel like the stamina system would defeat the point of the weapon. It would basically be a glorified magazine.

[torn mantle]

Right click body is 140, left is 120

[rich flame]

i WANT them to be nerfed, but the only time a weapons NEEDS a nerf is if its nigh ubiquitous imo

[vale obsidian]

wait 120 left click is one knife or?

[dreamy sage]

Make it only affect the primary spamming fire, rightclick can still function as is. Thus rewarding more skillful play rather than spamming down your opponents.

[torn mantle]

When you throw them sepperatly its 60 dmg per knife, when you throw them togheter in the alt attack you throw for 140

[copper sinew]

I mean they where everywhere after the buff, but people gradually noticed they aren't that op and moved on to the typical light weapons like the before the nerf xp or... well actually that was the only weapon everyone used at at the time

[sand monolith]

It’s a strong weapon absolutely. But that’s kinda the point of light. It’s not even top 3 light weapons though

[plucky spade]

It's just that they're barely playable in a sense, like the potential is there, but people can be very maneuverable

[torn mantle]

Nope, people switched off because they got nerf after nerf

[plucky spade]

XP can't beam a heavy in a mag can it?

[rich flame]

i only want them to be nerfed is because theyre so godamn annoying

i want them nerfed for completely selfish reasons

[copper sinew]

I don't know now, but it usd to be able to kill 2 mediums before you had to reload

[rich flame]

and embark should be making balance decisions based entirely on my own feelings and absolutely nobody elses

[torn mantle]

I want the primary reworked, because I like them and the holding down and continously attacking is boring af

[vale obsidian]

can we even remove the annoying part of the tk without crippling it identity

[plucky spade]

Based

[copper sinew]

Biggest nerf to the knives would be changing their sound to something less annoying

[torn mantle]

I have a suggestion that imo would make them even more distinct from bow

[plucky spade]

For real they drop 1 inch off the floor and suddenly you can hear it 200 meters away

[copper sinew]

It's like the metal pipe sfx, except tiny and somehow louder compared to how tiny it sounds

[dreamy sage]

gets ptsd remembering the cl40 triplespam

[rich flame]

to be fair, whiffed throwing knives can be pretty damn loud

especially if you have thinner ones that vibrate more

its like throwing a xylophone key

[plucky spade]

I will still hold the opinion that CL-40 should, if certain conditions apply, one shot people in the air

[torn mantle]

Honestly I want the knives to not have infinite ammo on the first attack but instead give them better RoF or proj speed or smth

[copper sinew]

I mean I like that they are recognizable coz if they where silent tehy would be too op, but at least muffle them when we are looking directly at the guy throwing or something

[torn mantle]

(As an ex-tk main, now I main FAMAS)

[copper sinew]

weapon deals mini-crits to airborne players

[rich flame]

tbh i think just increasing the delay between throws would be enough, but would probably have to be buffed in another way to make up for it

[dreamy sage]

That'd be neat im just remembering the sound, god that constant explosion everywhere was awful XD

[plucky spade]

Yeah and it's a grenade launcher not a rocket launcher, the hitboxes are smaller and the grenade is smaller

Therefore if someone is good and airshots you say 20meters off the ground and 20 meters away from you I think you deserve the one shot

[torn mantle]

Nope, if the delay between throws gets nerfed, the weapon will never win any fights unless the secondary was primed for a headshot

[plucky spade]

Battlefield

[rich flame]

fair

[torn mantle]

My idea is make the knives have 2 bursts, long delay, two bursts

[plucky spade]

It should get a mechanic rework at the very worst

But it's more of a feeling thing idk how to say it

[torn mantle]

I want them to get reworked becoz theyre cool af aesthethically and thats the only reason I wanna use em

[rich flame]

i have no fathomable idea how to make the throwing knives less annoying to fight, therefore they should simply be removed from the game and have their existence scrubbed from history

[plucky spade]

Use em anyways

[torn mantle]

What would y'all think

[rich flame]

i like it

[torn mantle]

And exchange tough, I propose faster projectile speed and less movement accuracy penalty

[plucky spade]

Eh idk very lukewarm

[plucky spade]

Dragon breath yayyyy

[torn mantle]

Idk I just want them to be less spammy and more accurate

Aka my suggestion

[dreamy sage]

They're pretty much the only wepon that punishies you all but nothing for missing shots imo.

[heady kindle]

STOP UPDATING THE SAME WEAPON 3 WEEKS IN A ROW.

THERE ARE OTHER THINGS TO FIX

FIX THE 93R! BUFF THE KS23!

sorry for the all caps. You understand though, it's irritating to see the model get another change while every other weapon is still untouched for weeks, some for months.

Then the gadgets. Have any gadgets had any changes in the last 6 months? All things considered there isn't even that much stuff being added.

I don't blame embark cause this game rules. I'm confident the problems are coming from nexon.

[plucky spade]

Goofius gooberius the 3rd over here

[torn mantle]

Well if the person youre fighting is even slightly competent, theyll shoot you back. There is a punishment. And unlike other weapons, if you missed a shot with this, it takes a lot more ttk

[heady kindle]

That's me

Hold on lemme fix my name

[rich flame]

the 1887 getting nerfed means every other close range weapon got buffed

[torn mantle]

There will be massive balance changes and new content in s5, we just need to wait a bit ❤️

[plucky spade]

Yes, it was just a small weekly update to buff these weapons you're calling weak

[rich flame]

from, a certain point of view

[torn mantle]

Technically only riot and db

[heady kindle]

I know. Very soon. But with so few updates in between, it can't be healthy to focus on one thing for so long

[torn mantle]

That may be so but theres only two more weeks til' s5

[rich flame]

i am being a little rhetorical, but when something is a dominant as the 1887 a nerf is very justified because its easier and probably healthier than bringing all the competition up to its level

[torn mantle]

Correct

[plucky spade]

Yeah exactly

[heady kindle]

Absolutely, and I do think it needed this one too, but with so much else in need of fixing, it took a little too long.

It doesn't matter that much though. Games still fun so I'll take what I get

[plucky spade]

Eh look it's just that, like every game, there are niche weapons ,"overpowered" weapons, balanced weapons, overpowered weapons

[heady kindle]

Honestly if I still have fun with the 93r than the games in a better place than most games

[rich flame]

its also important to remember that we are not game devs, we are not privy to everything behind the curtain, its probably never as simple as we think it is

[plucky spade]

Yeah go play the m249 in cs2 and tell me how much you're gonna have fun

[rich flame]

they should buff the 93r by making you use the foregrip and reducing the recoil because that would be hilarious

[heady kindle]

Yeah. I'll happily blame nexon tho. They kinda earnt their reputation. It'd be hard to believe they weren't causing problems for embark somewhere in all this

Embark is where the good comes from

[heady kindle]

I mean why have an attachment if not to use it?

[rich flame]

Also get a robocop collaboration and give it an auto 9 skin

[torn mantle]

Does mod dev count-

[plucky spade]

Indeed nexon might be the problem due to the targets they put on embark for s3

[rich flame]

Although it would be weird to see a light dressed up as Robocop zooming around with a grappling hook and shit

[torn mantle]

I wish light had more support gadgets

[gentle spire]

Agreed

[rich flame]

Well I doubt you have to go through much bureaucracy to get things done, I imagine devs for most games have to get their changes approved by a committee or authority figure of some kind

[torn mantle]

I mean I did have to get things aproved by a higher up and then reviwed by the publishing platform, but yeah it prob doesnt count

[rich flame]

The bureaucracy is the main thing I meant by "we don't know what goes on behind the curtain"

[rich flame]

I definitely think that counts for something at least

You know more than me that's for sure

[torn mantle]

Well I agree you said, anyway. Nexon is almost surely putting a thorn in Embark's side

cough season 3 cough

[rich flame]

I got the game less than a week ago so I am not privy

[coral root]

This nerf is superficial

[copper sinew]

Man we got yet another another CL40 skin that only pretends not to be a re-skin by changing the minimal amount of things it can.

[restive plover]

does Charge n Slam now properly count towards interruption challenges?

it does!

[copper sinew]

yeah it seems a bunch more of things now count as I have been doing the quest slowly without even trying

[restive plover]

it feels fun

[jade violet]

guys who love m26 and sa only

I really cant understand why people said m1887 is op

[royal pier]

Because Embark not-so-secretly loves the damn thing.

[narrow chasm]

is it just me or dose the model changes sound like a buff?

cus the spreed is smaller no?

[toxic plover]

I'm just happy the model has a slightly harder time killing heavys

[royal pier]

13 × 9 = 117

117 × 3 = 351

So it's less powerful against Medium, but just as good vs Heavy if you hit all shots.

[sand monolith]

Hence the usage of “harder time”

[toxic plover]

Yeah, missing a single pellet makes it a 4 shot on heavy

[sand monolith]

It should do 108 damage with a tighter spread to act as a backline pressure tool

[royal pier]

Kinda why I said dmg nerfs were always gonna be fucky

[sand monolith]

Giving medium a frontline shotgun is unbelievably stupid

[royal pier]

And why they should look to mechanical nerfs, not just dmg.

[sand monolith]

Damage is the only issue really. They just didn’t nerf it enough

They cooked so hard with the m26 matter and then applied none of that knowledge to the model

[toxic plover]

I think almost ALL light weapons should be nerfed because for a class that has unmatched mobility, it should work better as an harasser/scout/flanker class and have buffs to the class as a whole to reflect that such as moving 33% faster and having 200 health(maybe?). The damage it has is a crutch for not having satisfying or impactful gadgets/utilities

[sand monolith]

Did you make this

[royal pier]

A consistent 4 shot to kill heavy makes it shit, end of story.

[sand monolith]

It doesn’t though

[royal pier]

Yes.

[sand monolith]

Can I post it to my YT page :—-)

[royal pier]

It will lose to many, many heavy weapons in a shot-for-shot trade.

[sand monolith]

Yes as it should

[royal pier]

Yes.

[toxic plover]

I think 6 shots is kinda crazy, or was anyways until now

[sand monolith]

Medium shouldn’t have a 1v1 focused shotgun. It should be a more teamplay focused tool like the m26 matter is

The m26 matter SUCKS in 1v1s but is one of the best weapons on light

[vale obsidian]

the matter is good?

[toxic plover]

So true. So true. Matter is so nasty when attention is divided. I feel like almost all heavy weapons need a buff of some sort.(Mostly KS-23 from 100 to 110)

[sand monolith]

The matter is incredibly good but only with a coordinated team. It’s top 2 light weapons when played well

Lh1 is #1 imo

[vale obsidian]

whats number one then
oh

[toxic plover]

I get so pissed when a dagger light one taps me when I'm doing the spear spin. That shit shouldn't be possible

[royal pier]

That doesn't change the fact that people just won't use it.

[sand monolith]

That’s fine

[royal pier]

I disagree. All weapons should be viable ideally.

[vale obsidian]

the back is tied to the cam and not the player model
so you can jukes him by turning around

[sand monolith]

It would be viable. Just not in low elo. Which is okay really for weapons that break the rules of a class like a med shotgun

And then embark should NEVER put another cqc weapon on medium

[toxic plover]

Sad. Spear spin needs a rework to move at a fast speed and to not be input locked

[sand monolith]

No smgs and no shotguns on medium please

[toxic plover]

Faster*

Dual swords suck ass too because the third hit comes out slow. Not Sprinting when you attack is so stupid

Can't get shit off as a sledge heavy

[vale obsidian]

what about a fast ar, something like a p90
just wanna know

[sand monolith]

Medium doesn’t even have room for another automatic in general

[royal pier]

That'd make it absurdly strong.

[toxic plover]

Great sword melee weapon where regular attacks do 125 damage and special attack blocks melee attacks?

[vale obsidian]

not really

[vale obsidian]

thats such a hard clip

[royal pier]

That's .3 speed

[toxic plover]

Nah, hit registration is ass and the third attack takes forever to come out

[astral cedar]

Medium cqc should be limited to melee fr

[royal pier]

Spear can already actually out DPS the sledgehammer. If we both attack at the same time and the spear does a single stab and spins immediately after, it wins.

[astral cedar]

Then we get dual blades rework that makes rmb an attack with momentum like (old) sword+some damage reduction
Riot shield gets the desync fixed and then both are golden

[toxic plover]

Stab comes out faster after spin?

[astral cedar]

It’s quick to go into spin not out of it

[toxic plover]

I swear that's not the case I've used spear for the last 6 hours

It like instantly hits

[astral cedar]

That being said i still cannot advise spinning at all unless you’re in a situation like the clip above, very very easy for people to slip out otherwise

[royal pier]

The 1887 needs movement and aim penalties. That's how you let it still hit hard, but take away mobility.

See: The KS-23.

Not that harsh, mind you. The KS-23 needs it's penalties to be a bit less severe.

[astral cedar]

I’ve been saying it was more like the KS before and just needed balancing closer to that instead

[royal pier]

I think it's just a regular ol' animation cancel.

[royal pier]

You can jump into the spin.

Slide and jump, actually.

[astral cedar]

Yeah but if you try to poke first and then go for the spin it’s tough to hit all of it

[toxic plover]

I won't be happy with spear until I get individual special inputs and mesh juggling/slightly faster 3rd swing

[royal pier]

They need to not have the damn thing slow you down on the regular stabs, though. That nullifies its range.

[toxic plover]

That's all melee weapons and it's fucking stupid

[royal pier]

Sledgehammer gets lunge, so the extra 2m doesn't really matter for spear.

[astral cedar]

melee in general is weird in that sledge might be the only thing that works without a specialization with good positioning, the lunge is faster than sprinting if you can keep them in line of sight

[toxic plover]

Sledge is 100% good positioning

[sand monolith]

Dual blades should get 115% speed when actively deflecting bullets

[royal pier]

Spear doesn't need lunge, but just let it stay regular speed at least.

[toxic plover]

You mean sprinting melee attacks.

[astral cedar]

since melee will become very annoying depending on the changes I just think more lunge or speed in general should just be for all the options

[sweet thistle]

please revert the sword 😦

[astral cedar]

Less killing power and more consistency

[royal pier]

Both. Or at least less dramatic slow down.

[royal thicket]

maybe just let people sprint while reflecting

[royal pier]

Also, why tf does spear have to quick melee to kill consistently? Kinda defeats the purpose.

[toxic plover]

Nah let all melee weapons have it

[toxic plover]

I wouldn't know 80% the time I spin

[royal thicket]

Meanwhile riot shield crouching while blocking

[toxic plover]

I don't understand what you are getting at

[royal pier]

I'd like to see spear get "headshot" dmg actually. I'd trade some of the hitbox width if you could 2 shot Light and 3 shot Medium if you poked the skull.

[astral cedar]

shit we have the same mind fr

[royal pier]

It makes it fit into the FPS setting more, too.

[toxic plover]

I want spear to have a better vertical hotbox on spin, I be missing shit I 100% shouldnt

Hitbox*

[royal thicket]

It's just funny that you recommend giving all melee weapons sprint speed while riot shield doesn't even has walking speed

[royal pier]

Aim assist will be tricky. Would have to have it favor whichever part the player is closer to.

[toxic plover]

I say give riot shield running speed while blocking and sprint while attacking

[royal pier]

Probably lower the assist in general.

[toxic plover]

And expand the shield a little?

[royal pier]

Oh God pls no not briefly-op-Blitz in this game.

[vale obsidian]

imagine roit shield get a flash
thats be a night mare

[toxic plover]

Keep those mines in reserve 😈

I don't remember the last time I've seen riot shield so fuck it give it the buff, it's not like it can shoot you

[royal pier]

We can talk Riot Shield when/if Medium loses jump pad. Cause good riot players can be a terror.

[toxic plover]

I would actually love to see every class have a 4th gadget slot

[daring hamlet]

is model still good

[bleak forum]

X SAL ON TOP

[royal thicket]

I think sprinting while attacking isn't a good idea. It makes it so you can't just spam the attack button and pray for something to hit. M melee weapons are bad because mediums loadout doesnn't have the gadgets or specializations to support it. You've got dash, stun gun and invis for light, winch, charge n' slam and rpg for heavy but for medium? Nothing good really

[toxic plover]

Heavy litteraly can't hit shit even when you can get the first attack to connect with sledge, you will always get outpaced

[royal pier]

Good players: Have to quick melee to kill Medium in 2 shots. Same shots to kill for Heavy. Light basically unaffected.

Average player: Use the FAMAS.

[royal thicket]

Riot shield main here, have you ever heard of turning around and just pressing w for a longer time? Jump pad won't do shit if you don't positon yourself in the worst spot possible

[vale obsidian]

bro funny story about the roit shield
in season 2 or 3 there was a team of riot shielder that was distorying everyone
then they run at me all game, it was so intense trying to dudge all 3 of them but this guy THIS Chad of a roit guy keep hitting me, it like a 1v1+2 that game lol
then i jump off the map to see if they'll fallow and they actually did, what a guy

[royal pier]

Goo nade with an angled jump pad lets them catapult into battle. If they gave it more speed, horrifying.

[toxic plover]

Maybe give the spear spin some momentum/magnetism like sledge does?

[vale obsidian]

you mean to walk faster toward people when you spin?

[toxic plover]

No, with all melee weapons if you are close enough, you can spam attack and 'stick' to an enemy with your attacks

[royal pier]

Or a very slight slow effect on spin to more reliably hit a second time.

[royal thicket]

You can still run? they maybe get 1 or two hits on you but that doesn't matter if you're not a light. And if you get killed by a riot shield jumping into you and you don't manage to escape in time that's just a skill issue from your side

[vale obsidian]

oh you mean the melee lunge?

[royal pier]

Read context, then reply.

[toxic plover]

Nah man, you get pulled towards the enemy if you are close enough to them as you begin attacking, lunging is just slide jumping at them right?

[royal pier]

Lunge is supposed to pull you forward towards them, it is unreliable at times.

[vale obsidian]

you know how when you heavy attack with light sword it pull you forward?
thats lunge

[toxic plover]

I don't play light so non applicable

[royal pier]

Sledgehammer has lunge as well. It's supposed to stop people from just sprinting away, but it can also just decide not to work.

[toxic plover]

What I'm talking about is melee magnetism if you are close enough, heavy sledge has it for sure

[drowsy pasture]

What is going on here?

[royal thicket]

I'm telling you how to defend against any medium melee player with a tactic a 4 year old could figure out and you tell me that a riot shield buff would only be acceptable if you would remove one of mediums most important movement gadgets? Who is missing the context here

[vale obsidian]

what is melee magnetism then? it can't be aim assit right?

[vale obsidian]

yappening

[toxic plover]

Like I said, it's like a small speed boost as you attack if and only if you are close enough to the enemy when you do it, like a magnet

[royal pier]

You. You are.

[toxic plover]

I swear to god if the spears 3rd attack on spin came out at the same speed the first and second did, I would be the best spear user in the world

Keep getting kill cucked

[royal thicket]

Ok. Then tell me what context

[royal pier]

It was proposed to basically make riot shield just faster in general. Combine that with Medium's movement gadgets and demat, you wouldn't be able to escape.

[drowsy pasture]

Riot shield is aids

[daring hamlet]

noted thabk you

[royal thicket]

i know. You replied to the same message I did where I said giving melee weapons sprint speed while attacking isn't a good idea and said a lot more about it

[royal pier]

Because it's a bad idea lol

[vale obsidian]

@royal pier i want your opinion on this weapon idea
basically riot shield but the shield only extent to your hip, the up side is that you can run while shielding (and or while attacking if its shit)
also you bash your shield as an attack

[toxic plover]

Like a Spartan

[sand monolith]

It’s still meta

[royal pier]

Also, I think Medium having jump and zip is a big reason for the MMM meta. Light only has Gateway. If it has Gateway and Jump, they get to be the new team mobility build.

[royal thicket]

I think we're both missing the point. Just making riot shield faster is a bad idea. Right? So why not talk about other buffs/reworks

[royal pier]

I was thinking steel chair weapon lol.

[royal pier]

Because the double mobility is a problem in general.

But it would be awful if riot was also running at full speed.

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/stone-cold-steve-austin-steel-chair-the-rock-vince-mc-mahon-wwe-gif-16585537

[royal thicket]

Both jumppad and zip line are awful at precise movement. Demat's the only thing mediums got and it's not even that good. Riot shield needs some way of gap closing

[toxic plover]

Riot mediums almost don't exist, I say buff them and let's see what happens

[slate mulch]

I want peek & fire feature and a kill cam in the game, also a footstep indicator will be nice, and it's better if you give us a volume control for footsteps and please separate the sound of effects from master volume. Also give medium some gud weapon that's easy to aim with and please give light some more health, they just for like woosh 😅, please take 50HP form heavy and donate it to light.

Guys who agree Vote with ❤️
Who don't agree Vote with 👀

[toxic plover]

Boy take 50 health from heavy? Shut up

[royal pier]

It has...a shield. If Medium gave jump pad to Light, I'd be open to it moving faster.

[toxic plover]

Donate some movement speed and I'll say yeah

[drowsy pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/ic0niclisa-throwing-tomato-gif-23144061

[royal thicket]

how are you supposed to reach someone 5 meters away with something like this?! Both jump pad and zip line need time to construct and use and Demat is only an option if your opponent is taking a suboptimal route and you're able to catch him taking a different route. Wow, best gap closer in existence

[vale obsidian]

i wish we have pickable passive like +10% movement speed, -10% reload time, -5% cd time, or +20hp

[royal pier]

I play with a Riot Shield player. They are a terror against all but the most meta-crutch teams.

[toxic plover]

Biased not based.

[royal pier]

@weak imp makes it work.

I sleep now.

[royal thicket]

He better tell me how cause there's an entire bug-reports channel only for riot shield and how bad it is

[toxic plover]

Not enough melee magnetism lol

I think of all classes moved as fast as the class smaller than them if they are running melee, melee would be in a great place.(Yes this includes a speed buff to sword lights)

[royal thicket]

You're from north america. In new York it's 9am right know, in California it's 6am. You're foolin' nobody man

[toxic plover]

Chill bro maybe he works night shift

[royal thicket]

What class comes after light, bullet?

[toxic plover]

¯⁠\⁠_⁠ಠ⁠_⁠ಠ⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[royal thicket]

Doubt he's coming from night shift up until know only to argue with strangers online

[toxic plover]

I'm going to bed

[vale obsidian]

uhm yes indeed
model

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/goodnight-sleep-goodnight-meme-goodnight-bro-sleep-well-gif-21455564

[royal thicket]

was there a chloroform leak in the usa or what?!

[toxic plover]

Night bro

[jovial kraken]

Does sword need a nerf or is it just a skill issue

[torn mason]

Model

[vale obsidian]

model

[modern jay]

just wondering if the throwing knifes animation cancel thing is well known

[vale obsidian]

only this one

[modern jay]

hmm

[daring hamlet]

should i be using double movement with defib? or id a si gle movement gadget with like a nade or something else better?

[modern jay]

not what i was talking about

[jovial kraken]

Double mm‼️

[worthy plaza]

triple mine

[drowsy pasture]

Modle

[vale obsidian]

Molde

[modern jay]

so if you hold down left and right click with throwing knifes and only release right click it shoots both attacks at once

[drowsy pasture]

What

[vale obsidian]

What

[drowsy pasture]

Wait that's insane

[modern jay]

one shots medium on body and heavy on head; very balanced

[languid raft]

Rip

Bros message got deleted for saying that

"Oh my"

[modern jay]

360 dagger with range

[tranquil rose]

I love this, it would make perfect sense as weapon to a support class. So it's great weapon to use as a team rather than 1v1, shots will be much easier to hit due more tighter spread but away less opressive in a 1v1.

[granite orchid]

Yes absolutely, but if you’re just a nonchalant chill guy, you’ll go frags, goo and flash for extra bullshittery

[fossil cove]

This model change is solidifying a pattern of just nerfing whatever people are whining about this week instead of actually looking at the weapons in an ecosystem, its pretty sad. Wish the fun weapons didn't have to be made unfun to satisfy the vocal minority who will never stop complaining no matter what. Already see multiple teams of triple rifle mediums or smg lights in every game before the update, its not like they weren't already the best weapon types in the game. I used to praise The Finals for having shotguns that were actually viable, but they just keep nerfing them over and over till they are no longer fun. Wish they would pump the breaks on all these nerfs and take a look at the underperforming weapons and making them stronger.

[royal thicket]

Bro, model was the definition of meta for a very long time and this nerf is not that huge. Calm down man

[fossil cove]

it has had multiple nerfs back to back, its not just this nerf to it

all of the changes have combined to change the feel of the weapon for the worse

[royal thicket]

Bro never heard of riot shield

[tranquil rose]

"This model change is solidifying a pattern of just nerfing whatever people are whining about this week instead of actually looking at the weapons in an ecosystem, its pretty sad."

But that's exactly why they nerf it, they saw that model was basically dominant

I don't understand why people are so desperate to comment about a nerf that might potentially not change a single thing, it wasn't a hard nerf

[rocky mica]

A medium's goto weapon should not be a non slug shotgun and it should especially not be shotgun deleting heavies at long range and 1.5 tapping lights

[tranquil rose]

Now you know how absurdly strong the model was when THIS many people appear out of nowhere to say embark is stupid xD

I've never seen so many white roles commenting about it lol

[grand turtle]

By nerfing "the best performer", eventually dual blades will be considered meta. Just like model was considered strong but was not used all the time. Now suddenly it is the meta weapon.
What was that AKM mag nerf for example? It felt very random.

[rocky mica]

Which nerf are people even talking about model got buffed in this patch

[ashen hawk]

I'm honeslty starting to hate this game.

EVERY single time a weapon gets nerfed, the community has something else to complain about. I'm pretty damn sure I'm not the only one fed up. Guns are constantly getting nerfed to the ground, with no logical thinking about the actual purpose of the gun and whatsoever.

Embark, just stop listening to the community, I know you tried to be a game with a good customer service and all, but just stop. It's clearly backfiring. You DON'T listen to the community's complains EVERY single time. Everything that the community says is NOT always justified. Around seventy percent people in the game lose to some normal ahh weapon, and come up to discord to whine about it. That doesnt mean they always have a logical explanation for it.

They nerfed the model, what else will they complain about? Tomorrow there's going to be something else. A human being will always complain about what it's using rather than his/her own skill, because it's the easier thing to do. But that doesn't mean you listen and do according to them.

YOU'RE the devs, YOU should be using statistics and logics to balance weapons.

And dont even get me started on the mesh and dome. LITERALLY no one asked for that.

Thanks so much, Embark. Just because you're listening so much to us, know that you should change your strategies when driving Arc Raiders up there.
Wouldnt want that GEM of a game to be like the Finals too. It actually deserves a lot more

[granite orchid]

That’s what I was wondering. Sure the dmg per pellet was reduced but they made the spread tighter and added an extra pellet, sounds like the dps went up with an emphasis on skill over ease-of-use

[ashen hawk]

Thats not even a buff, its to maintain consistency and accuracy. Cuz maybe uve never played a shotgun, it needs extreme accuracy which is hard to maintain if your damage is already nerfed.

Typical community, always looks at what they dont want, and continues to complain

[granite orchid]

“Dual blades will be considered meta”

[ashen hawk]

It changes a lot. Go play the model now, its like they messed up the hit reg, and feels shit to use.
The nerf wasnt really that needed because the model was supposed to be a high skill high risk high reward weapon. Nerfing its damage just makes it more annoying to use because now you have shit dps, shit reload speeds, and whatnot.

But at least they did those spread buffs and all, still makes it more accurate.

Patch feels fine

[grand turtle]

Sarcasm, but I honestly wouldnt be surprised if it happened in the future seasons.

[granite orchid]

Dps went up and reload speed was unaffected, it seems like it is a high risk, high skill weapon now as intended like the revolver.

[grand turtle]

DPS went up?

[granite orchid]

People will typically find something to complain about, I’m with the line of thinking that weapons should get buffs over nerfs.

[lavish radish]

xp-54 or m11?

[lavish radish]

see a mix of both being used so i came here to found out the benifits of both

[ashen hawk]

yeah im aware.

Wait wat. Since when did dps go up wtf.
DPS got nerfed, spread got buffed.

But yeah im just asking ppl to stop whining still about the gun, its fine now. Stop asking for relaod speed and mag size nerfs

[granite orchid]

M11 has better dps but XP-54 has slightly better range

[lavish radish]

is riot shield viable?

[granite orchid]

Ah nvm, you’re right. I just did the math, dps is down by 11

[sly estuary]

i mean if u think about it, charge and slam was scorned in s1, if u didnt play sa and mesh u were throwing, and model was a b tier weapon overshadowed by fcar, and m60 was practically irrelevant, and now its one of the best heavy guns, m11 was b tier now its the most used, throwing knives was never used at all and was dogshit now my duo who joined the a game a month or two ago goes 20 and 3 every game

[granite orchid]

In certain comps, yeah it is, riot shields take a good amount of positioning and timing to get good with tho

[sly estuary]

dont encourage him 😭

also unless u have a good team thats willing to shape their build around u and actually has good comms riot shield is shit

[granite orchid]

I’m open to seeing more riot shields get used and demolished. It’s actually really good in disciplined hands but I don’t expect soloQ folks to get much value tbh

[sly estuary]

thats fair

i run charge and slam so idk why im complaining

[lavish radish]

wow the m11 has no range
you might as well use the shotgun will how close you need to be

[spiral osprey]

Nerf the Uzi

[tranquil rose]

"Changes a lot" is super exageration, is like saying the weapon is unusable.

High skill and high rewards? Yes, kinda. In a support class with 250 HP and a fuck ton utility? Nope, should not be in a medium hands at all.

[lavish radish]

or am i just bad?

[tranquil rose]

Also we’re not on levels of XP nerf to the shotgun begin completely discarded, people will still use it

[heady kindle]

Why is everyone talking about the accuracy you need to use the model?

All guns need extreme accuracy. The range is hit the target or don't. In fact shotguns are the least demanding by a sliver cause you can still deal a sliver of damage if you miss by a sliver?

[tranquil rose]

Some people treat it like you’re using a sniper, bow or any high precision weapon which is weird too lol

[lavish radish]

so am i the only one that thinks the m11 dose not have the correct range?
i might as well use a shotgun with how close i need to get

how come i suck at all classes exept light?

[granite orchid]

It takes a little bit of getting used to. I think effective range is 10-15 meters and drops off quickly. Your high rpm means you can land multiple headshots in a tight spread

[lavish radish]

tight spred?
i find that it misses so often

[rose knoll]

1887 nerf looks like a hidden buff ? Total damage only decreased by up to 11 per shot, but a tasty center pellet and tighter spread are bonkers for a shotgun that already has crazy good range and accuracy

[lavish radish]

idk
might just be too use to the xp-54