💣┇weapons-gadgets

[vale obsidian]

bro i have so much clip of that lmao

[shell sonnet]

What if i dont want to use frags?
What if i dont like the next option?

At some point, we run out of options

And dont forget, the enemy can still avoid them, and they can be on cooldown

Though luck

They should be balanced on their own, not around gadgets

[viral forum]

I mean as I said unless you are delibertely taking all gadgets that dont do anything against a sword light almost every gadget will be useful in some way to counter them

[vale obsidian]

"self damage is usually pretty forgiving" i have a grudge on that cus my main gun cl40 with one shot do 160 self damage leaving you at 90hp 🥲

[shell sonnet]

And what if i do?
Or what if i choose to take 1 and its on cooldown?

[viral forum]

I mean tbh I think they went a little too crazy on self damage with a couple things but cl has such a short blast radius you can even get away with some close range fights, I see my friend do it all the time

[viral forum]

well if your current loadout isnt working then swap something out lol

[vale obsidian]

you're missing the point dude
what if i just want to have fun and play what ever loadout is my favorite but some dude play something that "counter" me?
swapping out my fav loadout for something i don't like is not very fun

[shell sonnet]

And it still reaches further

Sniper mains told me to just stay indoors to counter it

Winch mains just tell me to stay outside to counter it

Now what
Do i just disappear in a black hole?

I have had at least 5 different people telling me different gadgets i could "just use" to counter them

I literally cant have them all
And if i did, i would still be ignoring everything i find fun

[shell sonnet]

Thats exactly the issue ive been explaining to you the whole time 🥲

[viral forum]

also again theres really not that many 'hard' counters in tbis game and skillful application of anything will overcome most loadout differences

[vale obsidian]

...

[shell sonnet]

Many of these counter are flawed in some way too

Stun gun users told me to just use dome shield while running melee
So i did

Unless i preemptively poped them (which has problems in its own right), they always got me down to 150 hp before it went up
After which they either waited out the dome shield, then killed me
Or just rushed inside for a burst

Or for another example mines
They take time to set up

Pull them out and throw them, by then the light has at least passed you once for 140 damage
If they arent already charging up the next one
Youre lucky if its charged by then

And they can just move 2 meters to the side and push another angle

Goo nades need to pull the pin, throw, then get on top of them

Etc. Etc.

[viral forum]

well thats why I hate stun gun bevause theres not many good counters to it besides praying they miss their shot lol, along with utterly breaking the smooth gameplay feel

but ngl too you have teammates who should be able to back you up in most situations but 1v1s do happen

[shell sonnet]

And how is sword any different?

Its not quit as gamebreaking
But thats about it

Not much besides "just aim better" or "use xyz"
All flawed

[shell sonnet]

"Just 2v1 them"
What an exceptional example of proper game balance

Just get 3 people to use dagger and bum rush the flamethrower heavy

See, not quit as bad

[viral forum]

I mean the game is gonna have to punish you at some point for playing like a potato, if you cant aim, cant use your gadgets effectively, and dont have any game sense to anticipate where the sword player is going you are just gonna lose lol

and like, good, you should

[shell sonnet]

Since when is it about this?
It has been about gadgets as counters the whole time
And i told you why that doesnt work

[viral forum]

Like yeah the sword wiggle mechanics are annoying sometimes, but its not game breaking and you can usually dunk on them just fine if you play smart.

[shell sonnet]

Not gamebreaking
Still an issue

[viral forum]

and I keep saying that every gadget has counterplay potential if used in smart ways

[shell sonnet]

Ok, thermal vision

[rustic pecan]

yo

[viral forum]

like going against it or you using it?

[shell sonnet]

And again, keep in mind, most of the counter have some issues

Like my mentioned "swap to, throw, wait for charge, can still be sidestepped" issue with mines

[shell sonnet]

Hey

[viral forum]

and they cant be sidestepped if you play around a doorway or some choke point, again play smart with them

[shell sonnet]

How can thermal vision be used to survive a sword attack
How does it helo

[viral forum]

rock it with a smoke and they literally cant see you lol

[shell sonnet]

Map dependent, wont always be the case

Thats like saying a flamthrower heavy is not an issue because youre a sniper sitting on a crane

[viral forum]

but you can see them, and therefore kill them

[restive plover]

Every sword player runs dash, and most decent dash players will also run vanish bomb for cloak's positioning potential.

Thermal is a hard counter for cloak so they can't get a good spot.

A little roundabout, but still.

[viral forum]

what? how so? you take smoke grenades with you lol

[shell sonnet]

How did smokes get in there?

[viral forum]

im telling you how to run thermal in ways that are very effective

pair it with smoke grenades

[shell sonnet]

You replied to my mine example

[viral forum]

also yes if they use cloak as a sword either thru ability or vanish bomb you will counter that with thermal and can counterplay them

the sword still has to close the gap

[shell sonnet]

Ok and now, how long does that take to set up
Get out smoke nade and throw it, swap to thermal, activate

Considering how lethal sword is, you arent surviving that unless you saw them coming

[viral forum]

you can have the thermal up before you even get into the fight

and well you probably should

again you have to use your stuff competently

[shell sonnet]

Thermal literally has a charge
You cant have it active at all times

What if they just come when you dont have it active?

Same thing i mentioned before
If your item is on cooldown, tough luck

[viral forum]

cloak is loud and so is vanishing bomb

if you hear it play smart around it

I really dont even know what you are arguing for anymore lol

[shell sonnet]

Do you?

[viral forum]

Yeah, that sword isnt that big of a problem and 'hard counters' arent that big of a deal in this game

you can take any loadout you want and be effective against anything else if you play it right, but that comes down to skill and being quick thinking/adaptive

[shell sonnet]

Its been about how items as counter are flawed, make the game less fun and often end up being unreliable

[viral forum]

nah honestly I think its a pretty good system and generally everything is pretty effective when played correctly

[shell sonnet]

Obviously a given, that was also in there

[shell sonnet]

When i explained the problem with mines you told me to just play around doorways

Literally the winch + sniper example

[viral forum]

if someone cant figure out how to counterplay someone else with plenty of useful things at your disposal thats just a pure skill issue

[viral forum]

yeah and thats just ine possible option theres so many others available

some require other gadets some dont

[shell sonnet]

Was kinda waiting for that
When you dont have any fitting arguments, just throw skill their way

I literally told and explained to you, why the "plenty useful things" can end up not working
But if you refuse to listen to what im trying to say
Whats the use

[viral forum]

Nope, unless you misuse them, they will work

[shell sonnet]

I could also just turn this around and say "you must be low elo, since all your enemies fall for those counters"
Wouldnt be very nice, now would it

[viral forum]

its not a case of falling for tricks its just playing smart, if anything their own counters will at least buy you time to make another play or disengage

[shell sonnet]

Ok, what if the enemies start playing smart and those counters stop working because they employ the strategies, like the ones i have explained

[viral forum]

and whoever plays smarter and better wins, yippee, we just figured out how everything ever works

[shell sonnet]

Ok, so you agree that the counters you mentioned are unreliable and can be worked around
Good

That means we can now focus on the "whoever plays smarter and better wins"
Stun gun, a hard counter to melee, disproves that too

[viral forum]

well actually dash and grapple can be seen as melee counters too, also in that case playing closer to your team is the counter to that

I do not hate stun gun because of raw balancing, I hate it because it breaks game feel entirely

[shell sonnet]

They are, correct
In an ideal world, a melee user would still have an equal chance at killing them

Its not an ideal world, but at very least they dont kill the user as well
(Unless its an open field where you cant ambush)

And same thing again
A 2v1 should be a win, not a requirement for fighting back
It isnt a balance reason to justify anything

[viral forum]

Every team fight starts as a 3v3, if they have a stun crutch light then play closer to your team

if you left in a 1v1 or whatever say you are sledge H, focus on rezzing your teammate safely before trying to just bum rush the light with a stun gun

[shell sonnet]

I thought you play casually?
You should know that teams often spread apart
Be that intentionally or not

And being tied to your team with a leash like a dog isnt very fun for some people
Especially if you like movement heavy flanking playstyles

[viral forum]

I play casually with friends and use VC to actually like coordinate even in casual

[shell sonnet]

That implies the enemy is bad again
If theyre good they will follow you, stun you during the revive and kill

[viral forum]

And if you put your teammates totem somwhere good for yourself you will force them into melee range

[shell sonnet]

That explains a few things

And it never crossed your mind that that may exactly be the reason you dont have the same problems?

[viral forum]

well idk turn your mic on then and use it lol

no point in playing multiplayer games if you are sitting in silence and suck

[shell sonnet]

So basically
"Want to have fun?
Just go into a 3 stack and sweat your ass off"

[viral forum]

you can find talkative randoms

[shell sonnet]

I shouldnt need to tell you why thats an issue

Solo vs group que gets enough complaints to be an obvious issue

[viral forum]

and theres no way for them to fix it, a set group will almost always play better than a set of randoms

[shell sonnet]

Correct, can

If your suggested counterplay is essentially random you should see the issue

[shell sonnet]

And youre telling me to abuse exactly that
Something out of my controle and unfun

Just to counter 1 guy

Like?

[viral forum]

how is comminication with teammates abusing something lol

thats just a bog standard part of mp games

I dont even know what tangible game change you would even want anymore, besides turning the game super lame and homogenized like counter strike

imo embark has done a pretty decent job with overall balancing and gameplay, yeah its not perfect but its certainly good enough to have fun

[shell sonnet]

Wording couldve been better
But does it make a difference?

You want me to have a numbers advantage to have a chance at winning

Communication is a core part
But the advantage it brings, its effort and its downsides should not be a requirement to "outplay" a single random

I doubt you could even homogenize the game at this point
And there are plenty of ways to fix things without ruining their identity

But i doubt telling you has much use since you will just play in your 3 stacks and not care either way

Embark did do a good job, many borken things are not anymore
And it is, frequently, very fun

But there are some fun-stoppers i would like to see changed

And specifically, trying to balance somethign too strong around "just use xyz" is one of those things

[viral forum]

most of those arguments arent catch alls, thats just what one player finds effective as a counter, find what works for you

[shell sonnet]

Are we going back again?

I cant just pick every counter ever

Even if i did, i would have nothing to myself

The items can be on cooldown

And should i happen to have the righ counter, at the right time, the enemy can often still play around and avoid it

Whats the point if you ignore all of this

[sharp portal]

is heavy GL good or nah

[pulsar grail]

very good, actually op

[shell sonnet]

Very good if you can use it right, want some advice?

[sharp portal]

yeah coach me, coach

how to grenade launcher

[shell sonnet]

Shooting the ceiling is very good, makes it easier to hit (if you can estimate where it will land)

Stay away from rooftops

Buildings are your friends, especially monaco

You can place a pyro/explosive mine next to a door or window and shoot it for big damage

Charge n slam is very good because of mgl's minimum range

Spam = good

Decend for defences but it depends (dome shuts it down pretty badly
Above is good, but not directly, get some horizontal distance and hit the sides of the cashout so they detonate near the floor

You might be able to get some use out of goo gun
Shooting random blobs around enemies might make it easier since you have to bounce off of
(Heard about it a few times, didnt test it myself, might not be woth the setup, since they also blow them up)

*copied from a convo i had some time ago

Basically a lot of intuition

Its probably the weapon i took the longest to get a hang of

But once i did it was awesome

Might take you a few matches

"Few"

[unkempt moss]

#buffgoogun

[shell sonnet]

Uuuuh, what else

Make use of its gimmik, shooting around corners is good
For example, spamming the attic on monaco

[sharp portal]

so basically, im junkrat?

[shell sonnet]

I never played overwatch

[pulsar grail]

love dva!

[sharp portal]

thats good, atleast one of us still has sanity

[shell sonnet]

Oh boy, if you knew

[sharp portal]

what game drove u to insanity?

[unkempt moss]

The finals

[pulsar grail]

bro is speaking facts

[unkempt moss]

Four seasons of my kills being defibbed in my face will do that

[shell sonnet]

Not sure where it went wrong
But yeah, the finals did contribute, at least for late stage

But its getting better

For example, im not hard shut down by aps anymore
I it

Honorable mentions, tf2, pvz gw 1/2, fortnite

[cyan bobcat]

L take on fortnite

[shell sonnet]

In what way

[cyan bobcat]

fortinity is ass

[shell sonnet]

I sense a possible misunderstanding

[shell sonnet]

Nope, misunderstanding

It contributed to my insanity

Glad im out of there

[cyan bobcat]

sorry
good for you

[shell sonnet]

Adding at least 1 mythical op item per season isnt doing it any good

Thats also why im a little scared about embarks new balance approach
Potentially being stuck with a broken item for half a season scares me a little

Kinda like winch all over again

[unkempt moss]

I love having a single hard meta every season.

[shell sonnet]

Although i do recall that they mentioned doing adjustments early if need be
Still has me a little worried

[shell sonnet]

You scared me for a second lol

[unkempt moss]

It’s nice because I can tell from the season patch notes if the entire season will be worth playing or not. Embark saving me time so I can put it in a game i will have fun with it.

[sharp portal]

@shell sonnet how good is the stabby stabber

[shell sonnet]

Which one exactly

[sharp portal]

the small one

[shell sonnet]

The very small one, or the one with 7 meter reach?

[serene glade]

heard someone bitching about defibs. smells like low elo trash

[cyan bobcat]

accidentally pressed enter too early

[unkempt moss]

Googs, don’t switch up just because you hit Ruby this season.

[shell sonnet]

Damn, someone has hate to get rid off

[serene glade]

funtards stay losing, compchuds cant stop winning

[unkempt moss]

You can’t just pretend they aren’t broken because you started maining defib and climbed

[serene glade]

they should let me equip the defib in my main weapon slot

[shell sonnet]

Tbh
Thats more balanced than what we have now 😅

[shell sonnet]

So dagger?

[serene glade]

i think i can get kills more consistently with a defib than the mgl

[unkempt moss]

Heal gun is my primary. Defib is my spec. Model is my number one gadget.

[shell sonnet]

Ok, now thats a skill issue /j

[unkempt moss]

The MGL is good and working as intended.

[serene glade]

ive used it only one time

[unkempt moss]

Opinions on the spicy nuggets from Doncs?

[serene glade]

im not fat so i dont go to doncs

[shell sonnet]

I got drunk with it the other day
One of the rounds
11:1
Next best had 3 kills
My teammate didnt have to do anything because i was tearing the lobby apart

Yall are just doing it wrong 🤣

[serene glade]

cl-40 is just more fun because mortar strikes are based

[shell sonnet]

Mgl is more of a mortal than cl will ever be

[unkempt moss]

They need to add an actual mortar

[shell sonnet]

Cl is closer to a rocket launcher imo

[shell sonnet]

Placeable gadget
Needs to be manned

[unkempt moss]

Let me mortar strike on my heavy as a counter sniper tool.

Even though embark has counter sniped everything with patches for me already.

The pike nerfs went crazy. Haven’t seen one since

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, because they now cant outcompete model

Now its only model

Hence my argumentation for defib nerfs

Buffing everythinf up only makes it annoying
The top ones need to come down

[unkempt moss]

The nerf to model feels like they didn’t even do anything. I messed with it

[serene glade]

gate way on top of mortar, throw it in a room and let it sing

[unkempt moss]

This guy gets it.

[shell sonnet]

Light 1 shots stayed the same, 2 shots are actually easier now

And medium 2 shots have only be slightly reduced in range (which wasnt an issue to begin with)

[serene glade]

thats too fun, high elo players think model nerf will make game perfect

[unkempt moss]

I like that Embark has essentially made it so they pick your load out for you on medium this season.

[shell sonnet]

Innovating before its even released
I applaud you

[unkempt moss]

Defibs and heal beam were already brainless. Now you can just drool on your controller when it comes time to make a contestant.

[shell sonnet]

I think heal beam needs more down time

I was in favor of making it heal until overheat

But i did have another idea recently

[serene glade]

i honestly dont even think heal beam is a problem

[unkempt moss]

If Heal Beam is the Ice Truck Killer, defib is the Bay Harbor Butcher.

[shell sonnet]

Delay the recharge like .25-.5 seconds after healing

That way it prevents tap healing and forces the medium to get off it a bit

But its not quit as harsh, since its szill available

[unkempt moss]

Biney has been nerfed enough. Let’s get the real problem.

[shell sonnet]

Average ranked experience

[serene glade]

[shell sonnet]

No problem with starting off at the top
Do yall think they will nerf defib in the season 5 wave?

[unkempt moss]

Probably not.

[shell sonnet]

They did say they want more "consistent " and "larger" balance shifts

For me that means, going from number tweaks to reworks

Which is exactly what defib needs

[unkempt moss]

They did say they don’t want to make big meta sweeping changes, then proceeded to nerf everything but the Defib. So maybe they see it as a big meta item, meaning they will.

[serene glade]

no, because then people with "stop nerfing support" or whatever as their name wont have an identity in their games. and high elo wont get to act like them dying out of position is a "strategic advantage"

i saw 3 uses of defib in a 90 second long "look i enjoy the game in high elo" video post yesterday

[unkempt moss]

Give me a world tour stop that removes defibs and watch me hit Emerald in a week. Right now I just get on to do contracts and then go play other games.

[unkempt moss]

Working as intended

[serene glade]

defib bring much joy

listen to these giggles

[unkempt moss]

Death shouldn’t be punished. It’s fun to live as many times as you need.

[shell sonnet]

Guys, remember, we can only get the genie to magically change 1 item for the rest of the year

[unkempt moss]

Change the defib. At least I can stop a model user.

[serene glade]

genie balance strat is so based

[unkempt moss]

Model user isn’t nearly as scary if I only have to kill them once.

[shell sonnet]

A dagger that comes back every 5 seconds would be scarier

(*if given a decent amount of skill)

[unkempt moss]

I’m telling you, let me GooGun trophies and all the really cool kids can keep their defib.

[shell sonnet]

Its good for goo gun
But i do want to enjoy the game in other ways

[unkempt moss]

You can do it to everything but trophies.

[serene glade]

give heavy jump pads and demat, so i can kick flip on a class that isnt boring as shit

[unkempt moss]

True.

Make that GooGun change and watch it become meta over night.

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, because counter counter counter items are awesome

Cant wait for another season without light in the meta /lh

[serene glade]

me too, i hate light

[unkempt moss]

Hey, shutting defib down in some way makes the light better.

[shell sonnet]

Maybe there are so many lights in casual because ranked players also want variety but cant play them in ranked

[serene glade]

no defib literally buffs lights. but im low elo trash and get told im wrong

[unkempt moss]

Imagine putting in all that work on light and not having some fat medium slob run up one handed with defibs, other hand on Cheetos, and get insane value with zero effort.

[shell sonnet]

Man, i really gotta get better at reading sarcasm

[shell sonnet]

Btw, as heavy player i need your opinion on an idea

[unkempt moss]

Oh yeah, having the glass cannon class shut down by a single item is smart. It’s almost like them not being able to do their job ruins the entire class

Hit me, I am indeed heavy.

[serene glade]

he called mcdonalds doncs, hes a heavy

[unkempt moss]

I play fatly regardless of the class

[shell sonnet]

Basically
Barricade

But its see through
Doesnt have collision with the world(only bullets, projectiles and enemies)
And can be placed on walls and the ceiling

You get 1 charge
It lasts a certain amount of time
And recharges faster than barricade

An energy shield

A mix of dome and barricade

[unkempt moss]

So like a placable mesh shield?

[shell sonnet]

Yes
But you cant shoot through it

[unkempt moss]

I feel like it would struggle to define itself from our other options.

[shell sonnet]

Its supposed to be useable more frequently and have certain utility (e.g. movement)

[shell sonnet]

I mean, we have like 5 options to block damage on heavy

Goo gun, goo nade
Dome, mesh
And barricade

[royal thicket]

I like it but ngl I think it will be ether completely overpowered or completely underpowered.

[unkempt moss]

I’d try it, but I’d rather Heavy get some utility that isn’t just stop bullet

[shell sonnet]

But movement 🥲

And stopping bullets from above

[unkempt moss]

They took away the best movement in the game this season. They want heavy to be slow and require a team.

[shell sonnet]

Not really

As sad as the loss of goo ship
It was the more extreme case

Heavy still has some good movement options like this

[unkempt moss]

I watched my heavy teammate run around looking for a way up to a roof that wasn’t possible for him.

No RPG, no anti gravity, zip lines broken. He just had to stand there and watch.

It was pretty cool. Should have run GooGun to get up there.

[keen turtle]

Goo for traversal is the best

[shell sonnet]

I mean, medium can also have that issue

[keen turtle]

and light. All about the gadgets

[shell sonnet]

Cloak light technically

[keen turtle]

Having no destruction feels bad too. You see it on MMM often

[shell sonnet]

Hope you told them, we need some propaganda

[unkempt moss]

His fault for not running GooGun.

He’s a scrub for that

[shell sonnet]

No need, you can bum rush the single mined chokepoint, defib them all and then brute force a win

[unkempt moss]

Defib should be able to destroy terrain. I think it needs that.

[serene glade]

your heavy teammate sounds like a funtard

should have been a compchud

[unkempt moss]

Yeah. He deserves to lose tbh. Stop having fun and maybe you’ll win a game.

Start giggling at RPG kills. Now.

Then desperately post it in the discord saying “look I have friends guys! HA HA HA look how we laugh”

Googs. I hope you have a terrible day. Stop having fun on this game. Do not try new things. Buy skin shoot model press defib button.

If you want to have fun and try stupid things go play deadlock.

This game is for very cereal players only.

[keen turtle]

Playing like they wont need a day job

[unkempt moss]

Exactly. Leave it to the Frank poster to understand.

Take away my precious goo tech. I’m getting the entire game ruined. GooFO only ever hurt one guy. It didn’t deserve this.

[serene glade]

punch vindicta

[unkempt moss]

Just because that one guy we killed with the KingGoopa was Embarks balance guy doesn’t me it needed to be removed.

God this game could be so fun but the dumb ass devs are chasing the esports bucks.

[serene glade]

i dont even think they are chasing esports bucks

i think they are just not smart. some people would say stupid

[unkempt moss]

I am counted among those people.

[sand girder]

Hi

[cyan bobcat]

Medium or Heavy weapon concept: Fusion gun
❓ an energy based full auto semi-short range gun. no ammunition, but has an overheat. charges up before it starts firing
🩸 DMG: 26 | crits: 39 | DMG falloff: 14m(46feet)-21m(69feet) -80% DMG max (from 22m(72feet) deals ~5/8DMG).
🔥 RPM: 410 (starts firing after 0.6s charge)
🌡️ Overheat: 3.6% per round fired (overheat comes after 28 shots in when spraying)
⏱️ Overheat cooldown: after a 1s animation, it takes 3.5s to cool down to 0%, but you can start firing below 50% (after 1.75s)
🎯 Aim accuracy: Good at 0-16m(52feet) | Hip fire: not good but not bad at 0-6.5m (21feet)

Thoughts? i didn't want it to be long range, so it's range has been grounded so i think the dmg could be a little higher, but then again, it could be OP and we dont want that.

art by Pavel Proskurin on ArtStation.

[unkempt moss]

#buffgoogun

[keen turtle]

what did you think of the full auto goo gun change?

[unkempt moss]

It’s a good QoL change. I have a list of changes in a copy paste I post sometimes.

My main thing is turning the right click of the googun to charge up to 10, and make a line perpendicular to the surface it lands on. Just for better movement and set ups.

They took away my beloved GooFO and other movement stuff, but it’s still the best spec

[tidal cave]

I think it would be pretty funny to make a skin for the glitch grenade or mine where it's just a car battery

[azure prawn]

opinion on sh1900? currently using m11 only

[drowsy pasture]

What weapon is that?

[azure prawn]

the light double barrel

[drowsy pasture]

The sawed off is insane when used properly

[azure prawn]

im thinking about unlocking it

(im kinda new so dont have everything unlockeD)

[drowsy pasture]

I don't have everything unlocked either

That's probably because I don't spend my thing until it's full because I don't need to unlock anything new

[tired minnow]

Light shotgun makes me a dead man

[royal pier]

Instead of having linear downscaling of explosion damage past max damage range, I'd rather explosions always do the same amount of damage over a smaller range overall.

It would be less range than currently, but always do the same damage.

If you get a hitmarker with an explosion, you know exactly how much damage you did.

They can also keep the environmental damage range as it is. So you could make RPG do 120 damage with a very small player damage zone, but still have the same environmental range as before.

[drowsy pasture]

Dumb idea

[azure prawn]

how is the m11 compared to the xp54?

[drowsy pasture]

More recoil, more ammo, faster firerate

[azure prawn]

which do u think is better

[drowsy pasture]

M11

[royal pier]

Why? The current system is awful. It doesn't work properly. You can land a blast at their feet, and do basically nothing.

[azure prawn]

ty

[drowsy pasture]

Actually they are pretty close

M11 also has faster reload but xp has longer range

[azure prawn]

aight, thanks!

[royal pier]

Nothing huh?

Istg people like you just like being contrarian without any actual substance.

[azure prawn]

cloak or dash? ur opinion on that? @drowsy pasture

[spring oasis]

True

[drowsy pasture]

I don't play light

[royal pier]

Dash.

[drowsy pasture]

I have a reason but I don't want to say it anymore

[royal pier]

Liar

[drowsy pasture]

If that's what you want to believe then I can't stop you

[royal pier]

Your girlfriend lives in Canada, too, I'm sure.

[drowsy pasture]

I don't have a girlfriend

I'm gay

[drowsy pasture]

Actually no I'm not but it's easier to sat that than to say pan

[fleet brook]

I'm resisting sending the idubzz clip

[royal pier]

Congrats, I'm calling you that kid in school who made claims and never backed them up.

[drowsy pasture]

Wdym?

[fleet brook]

I don't know how we got here but I'm loving it

[drowsy pasture]

This guy is dumb

[spring oasis]

I think the issue is they cannot aim at a target well enough to use a normal firearm so they use a grenade launcher, but they cannot aim that properly either, so clearly what needs to happen is the game needs to be changed

[glass tangle]

What's the fastest way to rank up weapon levels?

[drowsy pasture]

Use the weapon

[spring oasis]

True

Doing good with the weapon makes it rank up faster than doing bad with the weapon

[glass tangle]

So it's just kills? or are there other hidden multipliers

[royal pier]

I was driving.

At least in the US, there was always a kid who would make claims (like having a girlfriend/boyfriend), then when asked who, they would lie and say they lived in Canada or went to another school. They make claims without backing them up.

You claimed my rework suggestion was bad. When I asked why, you said you had one but didn't want to write it.

Sounds like a lie. You said no to say no.

[royal pier]

Have you ever used the MGL32? That thing requires more effort than any regular gun.

[drowsy pasture]

I said I had one but I didn't want to write it anymore because of what you said

[royal pier]

What did I say outside of "Nothing huh?"

[drowsy pasture]

That is what made me not want to write it anymore because I am petty

[royal pier]

I pretty much always say why I don't like an idea. Saying "dumb idea" is as useful as saying nothing.

[drowsy pasture]

That's not true

[royal pier]

It is

[drowsy pasture]

Ok

[royal pier]

"Dumb idea" gives me nothing to work with.

Cause I'm not against adjusting the original concept.

I'm fed up with firing a MGL32/RPG/Frag and seeing it do almost no damage despite it being basically on top of them.

This didn't happen as often under the old system, so it doesn't seem to reliably work as expected.

[cinder turtle]

why did you nerf the sword?!

pls revert your changes plsssss

[shell sonnet]

i mean, if it didn't deal decent damage then it wasn't on top of them

a change like that would also make them less unique, as smaller, high damage splash would be functionally almost identical to a shotgun that also deals damage if you hit the floor right around them
a bigger splash radius keep them intact

but i do agree that readability could use some improvements
perhaps if it dealt >85% of max damage it shows as a crit?
or just damage numbers

[main zephyr]

yea

[royal pier]

Your first point just doesn't hold true. I have gotten wildly inconsistent results with explosions post-rework. I have seen explosions hit their feet, and not do max damage many times. I've seen it happen to me personally. I've had an RPG do 100 to my teammate that's right next to me, and I only take ~60. It's not consistent.

I'm not proposing every explosion have a significant increase in max damage range. In fact, I think frags should just lose their linear splash range. They're too good for how low their CD is.

I'd actually shrink the RPGs player damage range in exchange for 120 damage. It would be a single target skill shot instead of an AoE opener (unless they group up too close, their mistake).

[restive blade]

they need to add a wing suit for light

so you can glide around the map

[boreal laurel]

People would whine way harder about this than they are now about dash (which is a lot)

[restive blade]

well you would need to be high to use it

[boreal laurel]

I do have to wonder when we’ll start hearing calls for a grapple nerf

[royal pier]

My concern would be it just being a worse grappling hook.

I guess they could make it infinite use.

I'm still not sure what it really gives Light outside of "cool flying wheee."

[shell sonnet]

i never have issues with the explosion damage
so its most likely some other factor at play here
to me, its pretty accurate

i do think frags are fine as is, this is mostly just opinion

rpg needs a whole rework, it shouldnt focus on player damage at all (in my opinion)
i think it should focus on destruction

and as a whole, it would likely take away dev resources when its mostly fine as is and they could focus on other stuff

[royal pier]

RPG being destruction focused just makes it a worse Thermal Bore.

[shell sonnet]

and it also kinda adds the issue of being very black and white

either you hit it and they take a ton of damage, or you dont and its nothing
also might make it more frustrating to face since dodging isnt rewarded unless you avoid it completely

[shell sonnet]

obviously should come along with buffs

also, add thermal bore to heavy (as in, make it shared)

feels a bit weird that light can be better at destruction than heavy

[royal pier]

I'd rather have the all-or-nothing if it means I know exactly how much damage I did. Especially with the launchers.

They're balanced around hitting max damage, but if you're getting a hitmarker around the corner, you have no idea if you're hitting for max damage, or 3 damage.

[shell sonnet]

i mean, if you hit them around a corner it absolutely wasn't max damage
meaning if your plan relies on max-damage hits, you should know that 1 more shot likely wont be enough

but again, damage numbers do the job without messing with balance

[royal pier]

You'd have to see the numbers through walls for that to matter in my example.

Also, you can absolutely do max damage with the MGL32 around corners, that's the one thing is has going for it lol.

[shell sonnet]

oh, yeah, no thats true with mgl
mb

[royal pier]

I think less AoE range in general would be healthier for the game.

[shell sonnet]

but then we get the issue again

[royal pier]

You'd gain more range for max damage, but lose overall range that in many cases doesn't actually change hits to kill.

[shell sonnet]

i dunno
that does seem logical

i cant really say more than "bad gut feeling" at the moment
i just have a bad feeling about it thats all

[royal pier]

MGL32 needs more than that to be meta-relevant, but it's a start.

[shell sonnet]

depends on the actual numbers though
and it does mean that you can kill someone thats on 1 hp in a decent aoe, which is what they are kinda supposed to do

[royal pier]

I bring up the MGL32 so much because it would be good weapon to test the concept on.

[shell sonnet]

mgl is good, just hard to use

direct hit explosions maybe
but dont change it too much

i like how weird it is

[royal pier]

I have it at tier 7, which is why I know how inconsistent it can be. I've hit stationary targets twice, without moving my mouse, and done different damage.

[royal pier]

I don't like the idea of direct hits, that CL-40s thing.

[shell sonnet]

as long as they keep the bounce mechanic (and obviously aoe because grenades) im happy
thats what makes this weapon so great for me
its just interesting to activate your brain for once and do more than point and click

[royal pier]

In fact, CL-40 having direct impact and consistent splash damage values would make it less frustrating for all involved.

I can't be mad if someone masters hitting me directly.

[royal pier]

Having to lead the bounce is was harder than direct impacts. You'd see people just bring winch and hop backwards while landing direct impacts to avoid self damage.

The biggest issue you'll encounter with the MGL32 is when people get right in your face. You can aim at the floor directly below, but it bounces so much that you have to be asleep or reckless to fall for that.

The nades having more mass would help with this. Also making the nades ignore small pieces of debris and props (like chairs and props) would help.

[shell sonnet]

are you really sure about that?

because there have been a on of people that complain about cl-40 because of its direct impacts
youd be happy to see someone mention mgl, let alone complain about it

people get more mad at getting blow up by being shot at the feet than someone doing math and sinking a nade by bouncing it correclty, basically doing trickshots

[royal pier]

I am going to mess around with Winch MGL32 a little for fun. If you aim straight down, they bounce behind you for some reason. So you winch, turn 180, then leave a trail of explosive poo behind you.

[shell sonnet]

thats some cool tech though

[royal pier]

I was saying I want the CL-40 to go back to being balanced around direct impact.

It used to be in a fine spot at launch, then they just messed with it for no reason.

[shell sonnet]

the answer, dont let them get close by using mines
or use charge n slam

in a pinch shoot the ceiling, cuz that lands in like half a second
way faster than waiting for a bounce

[shell sonnet]

if it were direct hit it would be a worse model
literally 0 reason to use beyond "i can also break walls"

[royal pier]

Charge is what I normally use, but there's CD involved in everything. If you're an CD and they get close, the mines arming time will take to long.

I use pyro mines a lot as a trap, though.

[royal pier]

This is literally how it used to work. It had high direct Impact damage, but still decent splash, but less than the MGL32.

[shell sonnet]

usually its a layered defence

all normal enemies, just lob nades
someone gets close? mines
someone survives that/someone else comes after you killed the guy with mines? charge n slam
if a 3rd guy actually dares show up you can likely just pull something out of your rear, if not, a 2 for 1 trade is pretty good

[royal pier]

If you're outside and they're in the 1-7m or so range, you literally cannot skip the nades in a way that lands.

Another big issue is elevation. The bounce is so extreme you would think they coated them in flubber.

[shell sonnet]

but they didnt swap away from it without reason

and after this whole roller coaster im glad its where its at right now

[royal pier]

I use goo nades for backboards. The problem is weapons like the M11/1887 and the like don't allow you enough time to use the nade and kill them considering it's only 83 dmg a nade.

[royal pier]

The CL-40 requires less skill now, and does insane self damage.

[shell sonnet]

as much as i hate to say it
thats just a quirk of the gun

some stuff just works better in specific environments

you can deal aoe damage in teamfights, but if you want to protect yourself decently, you need to be inside

rooftop bounces hurt a it, but its like 3 maps
and you can usually avoid fighting there, especially if you blow it all up

[royal pier]

There'll always going to be some inherent issues, for sure.

That being said, a bit more mass so that aiming low results in less bounce (like how frags work), would help a lot.

Also the less overall splash means fewer incidents of hitting yourself for chip damage.

Embark, the MGL32 will gladly take the reduced self damage you gave the CL-40.

[unkempt moss]

Wasn’t the max damage aoe what got everyone so pissy about the CL40?

[vale obsidian]

i think its worth saying that it still have the same break point now as it is then, it still 2 tap light it still 3 tap medium and 4 tap heavy i think
the only deference is that those shot need to be all direct

[unkempt moss]

That seems like good balancing to me

[shell sonnet]

But in the same vain as lower overall splash means less self damage, it also lowers hits on enemies, which it doesnt need

Less bounce would help on rooftops, but mess with range and the intuition of everyone that has used it until now
Not worth it imo

[lament mountain]

does the CL-40 only do damage when it feels like it or something. I played it for some contract progression and. I don't understand it.

[restive blade]

its just shy

[torn laurel]

General question, gas grenade or pyro grenade? Which do you like better?

[shell sonnet]

Pyro counters gas and goo, so thats a +
Pyro can be used on ceilings
Pyro can be used to set off mines
Pyro explodes on contact while gas nades bounce once or twice (i think)
Pyro has damage over time once the enemy leaves its aoe

Gas cant be countered by smoke
(Which actually combos quit well on light, indestrucrible aoe damage)
Gas has a bigger radius, which is pretty much its main draw
And i think it deals more damage, not sure

For the gas + smoke tech
Keep the gas cloud size in mind

A gas cansiter cloud is smaller than a gas nade cloud
Same with smoke

So a smoke grenade will cover both fully (if placed right)
But a smoke container will only fully cover a gas canister

[shell sonnet]

In general, i think i use pyro more

But gas does have its moments, when defending a cashout for example

But on medium, i find the 2nd charge of gas mines generally a worthwhile trade off for the lack of range compared to grenade
As long as you dont mind triggering it manually via shooting

[torn laurel]

Thanks!

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/wesker-albert-albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil-4-gif-5143688443782660001

[shell sonnet]

Remain ignorant to the underground meta and perish under our indestructible fart power

[vale obsidian]

why is that so funny to me lmao

[shell sonnet]

Whoopi cushion skin for gas mine when?

[vale obsidian]

a flashing beeping pillow is what i just need to sleep at night

[shell sonnet]

Pillow?

Tbf, im not sure if i spelled that right

I mean the thing you accidentally sit on and it makes a fart noise

Not a pillow

[spark hamlet]

I know I should use pyro more, but gas is so stupidly funny in scenarios that I almost always use it

[vale obsidian]

well google give me this when i search it

[shell sonnet]

Nope, not what i meant

[spark hamlet]

I believe you are thinking of a Whoopee cushion

[shell sonnet]

Spelling be damned, mb
Also ty

[spark hamlet]

No problem

[vale obsidian]

english is stupid sometime lol

[shell sonnet]

...should i just post that rq in feedback?

[vale obsidian]

i'll post it with you

[shell sonnet]

Huh, thats odd

[vale obsidian]

?

[shell sonnet]

Picture turned gray

Didnt know it changes colour after posting if you edit the original

[shell sonnet]

Very nice of you
Im kinda uncomfortable repeat posting it though

Dont wanna look the...
you know

If the devs like it that will be enough

[vale obsidian]

what ever ok to you

[burnt python]

what is the best medium weapon right now

[shell sonnet]

Model

[burnt python]

is ak or cl40 bad now

[vale obsidian]

no
THIS Is a weapon of mass destruction

https://tenor.com/view/spycrab-tf2-team-fortress-gif-4794774

[shell sonnet]

PLEASE TELL ME THATS REPLICATEABLE

[vale obsidian]

idk its some other person clip

[shell sonnet]

Potentially useable on doughwrangler model?

Due to the detached hand

[vale obsidian]

idk man, i don't really like messing around testing stuff tho (boring) so your on your own for this one :P

[shell sonnet]

Cant really get a 3rd person view of myself
I may have potential testing subjects though

All good!

[lavish heron]

i also had this

but with defib mixed together with an akm it was so funny although i think it happens when you die while lagging

[ornate schooner]

They should make an ospuze can skin for the frag

[hot kraken]

Can we get modifiers for gadgets? Sorta like how you customize optics for your gun, I see potential to spend VRs on variations of things like gas grenades (a thought that comes to mind is a stink bomb that if the initial impact grenade hits, it makes the player emit noxious gas for a short duration like a semi broken gas barrel but follows you until; taking damage by fire eliminates the gas status effect but just might kill you.) customizable shapes for shields (with the same functional volume as the traditional shape)

This way you maintain gears identity while offering ways to spice up gameplay and diversify it's approach

Another idea is different shapes and antigravity cube can take on. Like imagine if it's longer and skinnier so you could pull off sick running slides through

Or like a narrower one that goes higher

[royal pier]

So they mighta broke sledgehammer.

[vale obsidian]

love that you didn't even say why its broken lol like it just is

[royal pier]

Look at the dmg values

[vale obsidian]

wait whaaaaaaaat

hammer do splash damage

[noble swift]

Barrels

[royal pier]

Typically shows a triangle with an ! in it.

[copper sinew]

Gas is better for denying a steal, but pyro is better at cleaning up mines and canisters on a cashout, since it will burn away the gas and the flames usually don't spread far enough to deny a steal from every angle.

Pyro is also the only grenade that shatters on hit so you can throw it right at people

[hallow leaf]

I would say pyro is better in almost every way but straight damage

[dusky gyro]

how much dps does gas do and how much does fire do?

ok nvm looked at wiki, gas is 30 dps but goes to 60 in 2 seconds, pyro isent stated

[hallow leaf]

Pyro does 20damage a sec and also lingers for a few secs after they get hit by it

[dusky gyro]

i see

[hallow leaf]

It last 12 sec and I think it does a 4 sec burn

If you get a direct hit I think it does 20-40 direct damage

I believe its 40 direct hit but will need to test, the pro does more damage then you would think

Also if you go in fire you burn immediately while gas ramps up so it has a delay before it starts doing damage

Gas is mainly good at defending while pryo can also be good at defending but is better at everything else

[strong sun]

I really think that they should nerf the turret or buff the lights health, cos the turrets insane fire rate combined with the light only having 150 health, it does like half your health within the first 3 seconds

[hallow leaf]

1. You can glitch them. 2. You can goo them. 3. You can destroy them by shooting them or frags

Goo is your best friend

[strong sun]

Nah but they're super op if ur fighting someone or if a team all have them, which for some reason every team I fight always have at least 2 of them. Basically, if ur preoccupied with fighting someone and ur a light,by the time you throw a goo, the player has killed you or by the time you kill the player, the turret kills u

[strong sun]

Thanks for the other tips tho

[sand monolith]

If the sledge hits a barrel and that does damage to you it just shows the sledge

[tired minnow]

Do frags count as explosives

[sand monolith]

Yes

[tired minnow]

Good

[sand monolith]

They explode

[burnt oar]

The whole point of the turret is to counter lights lol

[sand monolith]

The point of the turret is to secure objectives and personally protect the medium from dives because medium is meant to be weaker in close range

[burnt oar]

Thanks for saying the same thing as me.

[sand monolith]

Not really

Every class can dive and flank easily including heavy

Light is arguably not even the best at it

[sand monolith]

You can also smoke them

If you throw a smoke barrel or grenade at a turret they stop shooting

[strong sun]

Oh

[drowsy pasture]

?

[sand monolith]

At flanks and dives? Yeah lights not indisputably the best

[drowsy pasture]

You mean the fastest, smallest, most mobile, and has invisibility isn't the best at flanking?

[sand monolith]

Yep

[drowsy pasture]

I think you're wrong

[sand monolith]

Because all of those traits are hard countered by simply playing well

Compared to the specs on med and heavy that provide consistent value

[drowsy pasture]

Ok but like

If we are talking about flanking here light is the best

[sand monolith]

Not really

[drowsy pasture]

How can you say that

[sand monolith]

Jump pad enables any class to flank, invis is genuinely bad at flanking, and dash is super unreliable

Grapple is okay at flanking but that’s kinda like all it does

[drowsy pasture]

I'm beginning to question your understanding of what flanking means

[sand monolith]

Flanking can be going from behind or above the enemy

Invis is terrible at it because it just gives away your position with the insanely loud sound it makes

Dash isn’t going to help you flank because you shouldn’t be wasting dash like that

[drowsy pasture]

Ok so let's just say it's behind because who goes from above. You're going to want mobility in which light has the best

[sand monolith]

It can help you get out if caught but it’s very inconsistent at that

[sand monolith]

Not at all

[restive plover]

It never hurts to have high ground.

[sand monolith]

Light is the best at getting into a position to flank, but arguably provides the least or 2nd least value off of actually flanking

[drowsy pasture]

Sure whatever

[sand monolith]

[drowsy pasture]

I hate that smile

[eager bluff]

The medium needs a Saiga-12 and the heavy needs a big single shot bolt action sniper

[drowsy pasture]

No they don't

[restive plover]

Medium should not be strong in close quarters and heavy should not be strong at mid-long range.

[shut bane]

Let’s buff mgl32 to detonate on direct impact with another player

[restive plover]

What about gadget mgl

[shut bane]

The thermal bore? Yeah let’s buff that

[restive plover]

Those two aren't anything alike.

[shut bane]

Ok.

I don’t see why you’d feel the need to punctuate but my bad I guess.

[restive plover]

I'm sending 987 flying wiggles to your home.

[shut bane]

I’ll kill you. In game.

[loud merlin]

500 rpg damage

and 500 more rpg damage

5 seconds recharge time
5 charges stack

[midnight cape]

This part is hard for me to swallow because I love playing the "not really helpful but might just solo the victory" light role and flanking is a big part of my game lol

[fleet brook]

Lights value is just damage/ kills besides them trying to make support light a thing

[sand monolith]

Light has amazing support output wdym

Or team utility

[fleet brook]

I know which kinda detracts from mediums whole point

I mean original intent and what light players actually run

[sand monolith]

Not really

[fleet brook]

At least most light players I run into play selfish with the occasional vanish bomb

[sand monolith]

Every class has a ton of support value

[fleet brook]

Lights original intention was a low HP flank class on release they had a bunch of selfish utility and little team utility

Medium was the maximum supporter

And heavy was just a fat gun

[prime coral]

Heavy now has a ton of team support and utility. Barricades, Dome Shield, etc

[fleet brook]

Those are all defensive utility

Medium is kinda loosing its identity as the support class

Overtime at least and they nerf the support attributes of it

[vale obsidian]

medium = healer that can do damage ❌
medium = damager that can do heal ✅

[vale obsidian]

its balance? i guess?
but 100% not fun to play vs

(balance cus its competing with so many great light gatgid)

[pliant steppe]

Triple medium, stacking heal beams, isn’t fun to play against either.

Even from the perspective of M or H, I actually think this would be less frustrating to play against than the stun gun because you could still run away or fight back.

[vale obsidian]

if its an "aim to shoot" type thing i'd actually want this in the game cus shooting while antiheal dart them is a bit op

[spare scaffold]

great idea

[pliant steppe]

I think I understand what you’re saying but I might not; it would be a gadget that you would switch to, then aim, then fire, then switch back to your weapon.

That’s what you meant, right? If so, we totally agree.

[vale obsidian]

yeah

[prime coral]

We would need more Healing sources for a anti-healing weapon to be needed

[vale obsidian]

no? lol heal beam is already common AND powerful enough

[prime coral]

Like, if there were Healing grenades, or a healing dart gun.

[prime coral]

Heal Beam isn’t really as strong as you think it is. Is it good? Yes, but it doesn’t out-heal constant damage.

Currently there’s no Burst Healing option, which is where something like a Poison dart that prevents healing would really have a major effect.

[pliant steppe]

This is one of those weird moments where it depends what game mode you play and what ELO you’re in. For some populations of the game, this gadget probably seems unnecessary, while, for other populations of the game, this gadget is incredibly necessary.

[sand monolith]

hard counters are typically poor design and this game should really steer away from them

[pliant steppe]

Typically. Healing beam is an exceptional case.

The game also has plenty of hard counters already and is supposed to be a Rock, Paper, Scissors type design.

[sand monolith]

this game is not meant to be rock paper scissors

theres way better ways to prevent healing without it relying on hard counters and healing beam also isnt really an issue

[amber ermine]

embark bring back spaming mesh shield but lower the hp to make it balanced

[shell sonnet]

We shoulsnt add even more broken items, just because something else is an issue

Without it, heal beam is still a problem
With it, healbeam mediums dont get to use an impirtant part of their loadout

Things should be balanced by themselves, not around counters

[unkempt moss]

Is heal beam still a problem? The rate reduction seemed to have fix it.

[bitter surge]

F**k model, that’s it.. I’ve had enough

[unkempt moss]

Trent promised the model would get rid off all the high level players, so I’m hoping it kind of stays the same.

[sharp portal]

hi coach

[fleet brook]

We love instant and easy counterplay at the click of a button

[fleet brook]

This game unfortunately is completely rock paper scissors in alot of ways

[vapid frost]

Glitch mine

[fleet brook]

That's more setup than

I see x I click Y I've completely countered x all game

[vapid frost]

Yeah I guess, still pretty weird how you can nullify all lights with a single gadget

Dashing is surviving as a light, and not only it takes away your dashes but also removes vanish bomb's invisibility

Enough glitch mine rant

[unkempt moss]

Instant easy things deserve instant easy counter play

I’m more talking about defib than light, but I’m also a big defib hater.

[open blade]

Thoughts for s5

[vapid frost]

Idk what it does, but looks cool tho

[sand monolith]

it is in a few ways and those already stick out as problematic, we dont need more

its not meant to be, and they addressed this in their recent patch notes

[open blade]

Oh and also

[sand monolith]

and somehow you would still be bottom 500

[fleet brook]

Mira from R6

[open blade]

Yup

[fleet brook]

Wamai and IQs gun

[unkempt moss]

Sounds like the game would only improve then. Only one thing is changing and it’s all the anti-fun chuds would get cycled out.

[sand monolith]

"anti-fun" LOL

[open blade]

Medium needs a kriss vector

[sand monolith]

medium shouldnt get an smg

[weak kernel]

i mean RPS interactions like the ones with gas, fire, goo, and smoke certainly are intended, and the entire point of the reserve loadout system as I read it was to allow you to strategize around counters without letting you just freely counterpick from every gadget in the game- but the game's had issues with really high value must-take loadouts since launch anyway

[pliant steppe]

Not sure how to respond to that; it’s not a matter of debate, the game has enough RPS style hard counters in it to clearly demonstrate that the developers have that as part of their design philosophy.

Healing beam is a significant part of the MMM meta issue but I understand that is isolated to certain game modes and certain ELOs and therefore a subjective point.

Do you have any examples of or suggestions for how to prevent healing?

@shell sonnet

The sort of deontological aversion to hard counters is silly. The game is full of counters. I don’t think it is even possible to design a game that has no element of “this counters that”.

Without the gadget, heal beam is a problem. With the gadget, heal beam has a reliable counter, same as many other things in the game, including Invis, shields, goo, fire, gas, barriers, et cetera.

The defib and heal beam don’t have reliably effective counterplay even after their substantial nerfs. We can keep nerfing them until they are useless, or we can keep them strong but provide tactical counter measures.

The dart would have limited range, it would be a projectile - not hit scan, it should have a longer cooldown, it should be blocked by shields, it would be blocked by barriers or solid objects, it would require sacrificing other gadgets, and it would only neutralize the heal beam’s ability to heal a certain person for a brief period. So, 1. The heal beam would still work on anyone not hit by the dart. 2. The dart would need to be used at the right time or it would be a waste.

The ammo count and effect duration could be adjusted.

[open blade]

Why. It has a higher effective range than a normal smg, and its larger with those attachments. Light already has 2

[vapid frost]

Holy shit

[sand monolith]

what niche would it fill and how would it be balanced against the ARs

[unkempt moss]

It wouldn’t be competitive or something. Has to fall in line with balancing or something. This is the no fun zone where we remove GooFO before any other problems that need addressing.

[sand monolith]

goo ship wasnt removed because of comp

[unkempt moss]

It shouldn’t have been removed at all.

[sand monolith]

it was removed to fix a bug that allowed people to crash servers lmfao

the same physics that allowed goo ship to work also allowed for a server crash method

[open blade]

Lower accuracy, higher damage output and rpm than the akm. Meant for closer range, but can go long if you’re skilled. Smaller magazine than the fcar.

[weak kernel]

to be honest I get where he's coming from because the ARs already beat light's submachine guns on TTK at point blank, you'd assume a submachine gun would trade range for firepower, and medium with dedicated close range firepower is really annoying

[open blade]

It could be similar to fcar in many ways in terms of game play, but more of a personal preference. Shorter ideal range.

[sand monolith]

this and they also are very close with heavy in a TTK race. an smg that kills even faster on medium would just be the best gun alongside model. medium shouldnt really be strong at close range

it is a mid range specialist class for a reason

[open blade]

It’s about fun too

[sand monolith]

more medium meta isnt really what this game needs to be fun imo

[pliant steppe]

Why should other builds counter M at certain ranges? Shouldn’t all builds be good at all things in all ranges? Or are we cool with things countering other things?

[vapid frost]

I dont think it would be that fun to find your way to get close to a medium as a light, only to get melted

[sand monolith]

thats not what a hard counter is

[shell sonnet]

Hey, whats up

[weak kernel]

yeah and I get just wanting to add content that sounds fun regardless of balancing decisions but it's really easy to see how a medium AR that kills faster than the currently existing ARs at close range (that already kill very quickly at close range) would become not very fun very quickly when you're on the other side of it

like the 1887 for as obnoxious as it is is punishing on miss

[sand monolith]

just add a kriss vector to light instead

[open blade]

Noooooo. I don’t like playing light but I really like the vector

[unkempt moss]

Give it to heavy then. It’ll look like the noisy cricket from men in black.

[sand monolith]

i mean thats just like unfortunate i guess

[weak kernel]

give medium the american 180 or something, peashooter caliber high firerate SMG that gives you a high firerate sustained fire option but higher on the TTK end of things

[open blade]

Jus chamber the vector in the heaviest round possible, the. Give it to medium so it can be described as a “heavy smg”

[sand monolith]

i dont think medium needs any more automatics tbh

the fcar already doesnt have a place

[open blade]

An auto shotgun for medium would go hard tho

[sand monolith]

and impossible to balance

[open blade]

It’s fun

[weak kernel]

I never know what to give Medium because whenever Medium gets something new it ends up feeling annoying because it's on the same class as the defib/medigun/cracked team mobility

[sand monolith]

yeah too bad its just outclassed by the other rifles

it feels like shit for a weapon to be fun to use but objectively worse than the other options

[weak kernel]

I don't think there's anything wrong with adding a fun weapon that's not super practical every now and again, I liked the launch KS a ton

[vapid frost]

A game should be thought in a way it's fun for everyone, not just medium players.

[open blade]

They need to reduce its recoil

[sand monolith]

it would still be a worse AKM

[open blade]

Isn’t the dps higher?

[sand monolith]

ttk times are practically the same as AKM

[weak kernel]

slightly but the benefits don't really outweight the downsides generally

[unkempt moss]

It really depends how much worse it is than the others. Because flamethrower is terrible, but it’s good enough to still be usable for making dumb builds.

[frail hare]

Why did the pike get nerfed??????????????????

[weak kernel]

I don't really think any weapon in this game is so bad that you can't succeed with a fun casual build- dual blades maybe

[frail hare]

I hate playing against the model

[sand monolith]

the max ttk difference between AKM and FCAR is that the AKM is 0.04s faster than killing lights than the fcar is with all headshots

[sand monolith]

its ok they will nerf model in season 50

[frail hare]

Pain

[sand monolith]

this is the breakout tournament linked by embark LOL

[wind folio]

everyone using model huh?

with the dough wrangler skin

[frail hare]

Maybe if the buffed the pike instead and the fcar

[sand monolith]

they just need to nerf the model

its one of the last weapons that needs a nerf. nerf it at the same time as you buff like 3 weapons and people wont complain

slightly buff the AKM and FCAR, and buff dual blades to be faster while holding block and full speed while deflecting

AA12 for heavy would be awesome

[frail hare]

Yeah if anything the dual Blade could genuinely use the buff

[heady kindle]

Why does everyone want duplicate weapons?

Medium doesn't need more assault rifles, light doesn't need more smgs, and heavy doesn't need another fast firing shotgun.

Innovate at least a little. Like at all. Explosive ammo, whips, incendiary ammo, underbarrel weapons on normal guns, any of the crazy failed weapon designs over the last century that make no sense.

That's the kinda stuff you should want cause we don't already have it

[cyan bobcat]

they would break the game

but would be cool ngl

[restive plover]

We really don't need anymore weapons.

More gadgets, though? Definitely.

[shell sonnet]

im not against counters
im against hard counters

stuff like stun gun deleting melee users

gadgets being hard countered is somewhat ok, its only a small part of your loadout
but your spec is very important, it shouldnt be hard countered

With the gadget, heal beam has a reliable counter
and that is not how it should be balanced
we should not gatekeep the fun out of a videogame, to prevent people people from being excessively frustrated

things should be balanced on their own

or we can keep them strong but provide tactical counter measures.
and those dont have to be items
for example being able to shoot the hologram

healbeam could instead be changed to leave a better opening to attack in, leaving it strong, but counter-able (without forcing people to give up 1/3rd of their gadgets for it)

all of your listed fun just make it "balanced" but if its fun or causes further frustrations is not considered

this is not a good idea

[heady kindle]

That's kinda the point. You should want to risk the balance for excitement, not the other way around

[shell sonnet]

imagine a c4 vest that 1-shots both the user and a nearby enemy
a literal 1:1 trade

that would technically be balanced
but people hate being 1-shot, so it would suck the fun out for everyone but the guy using it

[cyan bobcat]

defib could make it a weird meta

[restive plover]

Unbalanced stuff is fun for a very short period and then it gets incredibly stale.

The trade's not worth it, especially with a studio as prone to lethargy as embark.

[shell sonnet]

not an actual suggestion
just an example of why i think that way

[cyan bobcat]

gadget or specialization idea for Medium or Light: Kamikaze
❓ a suicide bomb vest. if you're gonna die anyway, why not take them with you?
🩸 DMG: 350-60, depending on how close to the point zero of the explosion.
💥 Blast Radius: 9m (29ft) | Point Zero (PZ): 2.5m (8.2ft) | DMG beyond PZ: 225-60*
☠️ yes, using it will kill you.
❕ if revived, you cant use it again.

[spark steppe]

I think there was gadget or something like that but it was too op against melee players

Also

Anyone have any advice for a revolver build?

Still learning the ways so i wanna know what equipment would go with it

[proven solar]

What's the best famas loadout?

[cyan bobcat]

ive seen ppl just use all the normal ones

[restive plover]

Anything you would run with the akm or fcar you would run with the famas.

[spark steppe]

Right now I'm just running goo grenade, zipline and gas mine with the wall hack thing

[spark steppe]

Ahh kk

[cyan bobcat]

wall hack??

[spark steppe]

That thing where you make the wall transparent and can shoot through ot

[cyan bobcat]

dematerializer

[spark steppe]

Forgo the name 😐👍

This slow mode is kinda annoying

[cyan bobcat]

its to avoid spam

[spark steppe]

Yeah

[fervent flare]

What’s everyone’s favorite weapon

Mines pistol I’m new by the way

Like duel

[fleet brook]

Tbf that's most comp game tourneys it's just chat spam of

X is op

[sand monolith]

I mean yeah usually because that thing is op

[fleet brook]

For any dbd tourney it's nurse

Seige it's mira

[fleet brook]

Or just annoying

Anytime Sombra saw play anywhere near top OW she was in every chat

People love complaining and embark has a history of just nerfing weapons into the ground to satisfy a community that chases blood

[sand monolith]

Finals community hasn’t really been chasing blood they just want higher ttk to fit a team based game

Ttk on release was completely unfitting for the genre

Bad game design gets people to complain even if they can’t point out exactly what they’re upset with

[fleet brook]

It was longer which was enjoyable but made med a problem and I'd argue anytime a gun or strat is to this community demands it be nerfed into the ground

[sand monolith]

ttk was much faster on release

[fleet brook]

Thought on 1.0 it was slower than beta

[sand monolith]

They’re pretty much identical

I mean compared to how the game is now, ttk on release was terrible

Instant kill rifles and shotguns

[fleet brook]

Light also used to kill you fast enough to justify they're hp and were super annoying

I should know throughout beta and 1.0 I hated heavy so I played light

[hardy dust]

Light ttk hasn't changed much iirc.

[sand monolith]

Fastest ttk on light excluding double barrel has gotten even faster I think

With the m11 micro buffs. S2 LH1 might have been faster though

[hardy dust]

S2 or S3?

Although beta lh1 ttk mightve been faster, but I'm not sure exactly.

[sand monolith]

Oh I forgot about early s3 lh1. I just meant before the 6% rpm nerf

[hardy dust]

I think m11 was faster, unless you counted headshots.

[strange kelp]

Is the akm or the f car better ?

[terse raptor]

Does anyone have anygood sniper loadouts

[icy forge]

Depends on what you want, your experience with recoil, ect. I'd say, Akm is the standard choice if you used assault rifles on Counter Strike for an example. The Fcar is the less easy version to use, more recoil, less amo but faster reload and better accuracy due to the scope. I don't really like full auto weapons because I can't handle the recoil, if you don't want to deal with the recoil but still want to use an assault rifle, try the Famas out, very solid weapon, good ttk, good mag size, good range, little recoil and good accuracy.

[restive plover]

Akm by virtue of magazine capacity, since they perform near identically to each other.

Both are inferior to the famas.

[icy forge]

Famas is fire

[drowsy pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/facts-brother-true-smoke-gif-23157983

[tame quiver]

Make sniper one shot headshot for all characters

[drowsy pasture]

You have the worst name I've seen in a while

[tame quiver]

Idc

[icy forge]

Real

[tame quiver]

Why not at least for meds

[drowsy pasture]

No

[icy forge]

Unbalanced asf

[restive plover]

Sniper needs to go back to being hitscan all the way.

But that's about it.

[sacred barn]

Anyone know if Embark have any plans to make the smoke grenades more akin to the CS:GO ones? that way they're more consistent.

[languid crag]

thermal bore skin that makes it one of those single shot grenade launchers or a flare gun

[hallow leaf]

i would like to at least have smoke on all classes first

[hallow leaf]

revolver should one shot headshot lights

[sand monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/in-shock-gif-17553158948252598097

[tame quiver]

I did not say all that

[hallow leaf]

im saying it should

[restive plover]

It should not.

[tame quiver]

Bold of you

[hallow leaf]

says the one that thinks sniper should one shot every class

[tame quiver]

It’s a sniper tho

[hallow leaf]

sniper is balanced where its at

[tame quiver]

In a close/mid range focused game one shot sniper isn’t that overpowered. But one shot revolver is wild

[spark igloo]

only time anything should be one shotting is when it's like stupid difficult to pull off like sniper headshotting a light or getting behind someone's back with a melee

[dapper umbra]

Does anybody know if last patch's (4.6.0) sword nerf is just a roll back of the lunge buffs in 4.0.0 or if they tinkered with it? Is it different now or am I just going crazy?

[hallow leaf]

it would only one shot lights and it would be amazing

[restive plover]

I've heard it is slightly worse than it was pre buff.

[dapper umbra]

"
Sword

Updated attack sweeps to be more centered on the crosshair, making the weapon more accurate

Increased the range of the secondary lunge from approximately 5m to approximately 6m

Secondary lunge attack now maintains its top speed for slightly longer
"

"
Sword

Decreased lunge duration of the secondary attack from 0.4 to 0.3 seconds, resulting in ~1m reduction in distance, from roughly 7m to 6m

Decreased the length of the secondary attack’s hit sweep by 55cm

Dev Note: These changes should decrease the effective range of the lunge attack by ~1.5m, hopefully making the Sword slightly less oppressive for players facing it.
"

[restive plover]

Medium absolutely does not need to one shot lights.

Revolver is in need of some love, but the damage is perfectly fine where it is.

[dapper umbra]

That is what I'm feeling. It feels like it deaccelerates you to a standstill for a moment, which I don't recall being as severe before.

[dapper umbra]

also what is the deal with these numbers? Did they buff it to 6m or was it 7m? Did they nerf it from 7m to 6m or by 1.5m?

oh wait, I understand the 1.5m figure now

Still weird they said the patchnotes disagree by a meter on the range of the lunge

[hallow leaf]

it should, if lights get to 1 shot meds then meds should be able to one shot lights

[dapper umbra]

If heavies can oneshot lights then lighs should be able to oneshot heavies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

made sword lunge oneshot heavies like the sledge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hallow leaf]

if heavies can why cant med?

[dapper umbra]

oh wait dagger lol

[restive plover]

The only thing that does that is dagger, which doesn't work on people with brains.

Same thing for sledge m2 vs. lights, unless winch is in play.

[dapper umbra]

well tbf mediums can oneshot combo lights with model 1887 quickmelee

[restive plover]

Which is a problem that needs to be fixed.

[dapper umbra]

nah its fine

[hallow leaf]

thats not one shot, thats 2 shots

[dapper umbra]

ttk is practically oneshot but requires a more favourable situation

[restive plover]

Effectively a one tap since they happen in such quick succession.

Medium shouldn't have it because medium being strong in close quarters is bad.

[hallow leaf]

also mines and frags should go back to 150 damage

[dapper umbra]

nah it's fine. But they should be bad at range if they choose the weapon that makes them good in close quarters. That was what the last patch's model 1887 change was about

[rocky cedar]

i should be able to drag a bag of peanuts across the forehead of someone I kill as an emote or finisher

[dapper umbra]

don't frags do 150 damage? I think I could onehsot myself as a light with a frag nade when I wanted to kill myself

[grizzled plover]

Pretty sure it's 149 max but could be wrong

[restive plover]

Medium being able to match light and heavy's power in close quarters while running a full support load out is game breaking. It's why model is still hard meta and triple medium is a thing to begin with.

The range was never the issue, nerfing it didn't solve any problems.

[hallow leaf]

correct

[restive plover]

The range should have been left alone and the damage nerfed instead.

[hallow leaf]

they shadow nerfed them a while back to kiss lights ass

[grizzled plover]

Honestly I love frag but I hate when it doesn't register a hit because screwed up line of sight

[dapper umbra]

nerf wasn't severe enough. I don't think the double barrel shotgun or melee weapons will ever be meta because they are so bad at range

[restive plover]

M26 isn't good at range and is one of the meta options for light.

[dapper umbra]

even though they are powerful and fun to use

[restive plover]

Forcing close range in this game really isn't that hard.

[dapper umbra]

it is not

[restive plover]

It is. It and the lh1.

[dapper umbra]

but that is true

I'm surprised, why is the m26 meta? Does it have high damage per mag and decent distance?

[restive plover]

Lh1 is more generally applicable, m26 is more for triple shotgun hml. Still a very good weapon regardless. The only problem with it is that medium currently has a better one in the form of model.

[dapper umbra]

it has bad dps and should be pretty restricted in range no?

I would think the double barrel is way better, albeit less consistent

[restive plover]

0-20 meters is the most important range because that's where cash out fights take place.

M26 is better than the double barrel for consistency, poking, and not having nearly as much downtime.

[dapper umbra]

I guess for coordinated teams good damage and ttk is less important because the enemy will die if everyone focus fires them anyway

so you don't need a perfect shot, 3 okish shotgun shots will kill

[restive plover]

And for burst damage weapons like model, ks23 and m26 raw ttk isn't all that important, especially with perfect hipfire accuracy.

[gloomy sonnet]

Is there any purpose in using the XP-54 anymore? lol

[restive plover]

There is not.

[gloomy sonnet]

It's funny how it was one of the best and suddenly became the worst

[restive plover]

It only needed a tiny adjustment but embark smites it from the heavens.

[dapper umbra]

where can I watch to see meta competetive gameplay? I want to see this m26 meta

[gloomy sonnet]

Just like 93rr i guess

[restive plover]

93r was never even good to begin with.

And they nerfed it anyway.

[gloomy sonnet]

I meant the adjusting part

[gloomy sonnet]

literally, like why?

[restive plover]

Because embark doesn't know what the hell they're doing.

[dapper umbra]

I mean Embark has been pretty consistenly fixing issues asked for by the community

[restive plover]

Which is why they nerfed heal beam again instead of properly addressing the model.

[gloomy sonnet]

I think instead of straight up nerfing stuff that is good they just need to buff what's really bad

[midnight cape]

I just don't get the one and only sniper being tied to the light class. My only real complaint in my first 50 hours

[dapper umbra]

It's clear to me that embark is balacing stuff better than what the community would. Healbeam probably still gets used despite the nerfs, it's just useful. Remember when they utterly nerfed RPG and domeshield into the ground and everybody thought that was the end of those gadgets? They still get used a ton.

[gloomy sonnet]

I think that's because the other stuff literally just doesn't get used because of how unreliable they are really

[grizzled plover]

People sleep on goo nade

[gloomy sonnet]

Example: Why would you pick breach charge instead of thermal bore?

[dapper umbra]

surprise

blowing up gas cannisters from behind walls

[shell sonnet]

You get more
It explodes instantly on 1 tap (after the charge up)
Doesnt require line of sight for activation

[gloomy sonnet]

I mean you understood what i mean't really

[shell sonnet]

?

[grizzled plover]

Rs is right though those are reasons to pick charge over bore

Both have advantages

[gloomy sonnet]

But there's also a reason why people pick bore more than charge

[shell sonnet]

The delay after shooting is my main issue with bore

If i need something gone i want it that very moment

I cant look over shoot, have it travel, land, then explode after a second

[dapper umbra]

Yeah, it's not exactly a big surprise when the floor blows up for example

[shell sonnet]

But for range and utility, bore does have its moments

Pretty balanced imo

[gloomy sonnet]

I have the same issue with breach charge, the delay and the fact you need to plant it is annoying

[spring oasis]

multiple different things can occur at once 😀

[gloomy sonnet]

i can just shoot a wall with bore and hold my aim button

[shell sonnet]

See, you like 1 playstyle and choose according options

I like another playstyle and choose according options

Were both having fun, but arent really at an advantage compared to the other
Its perfection

[gloomy sonnet]

But really everything is subjective, but there is no denial that sometimes some are just better

[dapper umbra]

perhaps not in this case

[shell sonnet]

Obviously there are exceptions, but i do think breach and bore nailed it

[dapper umbra]

If i'm not using lh1 or sniper I would probably prefer breach charge for defense

[grizzled plover]

I agree charge and bore both have moments so they are good

[gloomy sonnet]

yeah

I enjoyed using breach when i first started out, but now is just "meh" also because i don't see many people making use of it

or making GOOD use of it

[normal ice]

Bore allows you to ignite goo and gas, which breaches can't. Breaches allow you to do damage and detonate at any time, which bore can't

[gloomy sonnet]

yeah

[dapper umbra]

very true, just cant compare to usefulnes of gateway and stungun for example.

[shell sonnet]

I had a perfect clip of breach on skyway

With the hotel near the cliff next to the 2 skyscrapers, opposit side of the construction site on the map

Cashout was right at the top and we owned it

I then defended it 4 times by blowing the floor under it

Still salty i wasnt recording

[gloomy sonnet]

let's not talk about tracking dart...

Really i don't see a reason on why to pick it if you're a light

[normal ice]

I honestly think the S4 changes were a nerf. Too little uptime on the tracks

[shell sonnet]

It feels nice
Thats about it

They couldve left the duration where it was with the ammo buff tbh

[gloomy sonnet]

yeah

it's just taking a slot in inventory now

[normal ice]

I think Motion Sensor nearly invalidated all the other recon gadgets

[gloomy sonnet]

sadly it's a heavy only

[shell sonnet]

What?
How?

[normal ice]

Yeah

[gloomy sonnet]

could be a light or medium too

[shell sonnet]

Like, i guess its harder to ambush you if you spam it/get to set up, but thats kinda what heavy is for

Like, you cant use it though walls

Sonar grenades are for that

[gloomy sonnet]

it would be nice if it lasted forever and had to be manually removed by the player hit to stop

[normal ice]

The range is huge, you get 2 at once, and they stick around passively. It's very quick to use/deploy, too. You don't give away your own position as you do with sonars or tracking darts. The only drawback is they're destructible, but only if the enemy destroying them gets detected by them first, really.

That and ig they don't work through walls like sonars lol

[shell sonnet]

I mean, the range itself is decent, but the range at which you get to use it is lacking

You cant throw it into the top of a building from ground level for example

Then again, cant detect enemies through walls, only if they walk by

I dont know, it does make sence what youre saying
But i really dont find it problematics
So i dont quite understand

Possibly because of heavies other options?

[normal ice]

Nah, I don't mean it's OP. I think it's balanced compared to his other gadgets

[shell sonnet]

But this was against other recon items

[normal ice]

I just wish Light's recons were better. I honestly think Sonar Grenade shouldn't show enemies the pulsing effect. And darts just need better duration

[shell sonnet]

The enemies shouldnt see the detection wave?

[normal ice]

Yeah. But they should still know they were "DETECTED." That or I wish the sonar noise was only heard by the team using it

[shell sonnet]

Thats the only counterplay you have against sonars (besides reshaper)

That would not be good

[normal ice]

You could still move out of the way with either the audial or visual cues, respectively

Or if not either of those, it'd at least be nice if the tracking duration was just long enough to make it consistent between every one of the 3 pulses. Don't quite like how it leaves them unseen for roughly a second

[shell sonnet]

But you just dont get told that you need to move
And suddenly youre detected because "you didnt move in time"
When there was literally nothing to react to

[warm gyro]

I like taking charge for defense as light bc of stopping cash outs and stuff

[normal ice]

I mean, that's kinda how it currently is, anyway. Sonars are just unavoidable sometimes.

[shell sonnet]

I mean, this is a pretty minor point, but that second is possibly to give the enemy a split second to run off while undetected, leaving them slightly hidden as you dont know where they ran off to

[shell sonnet]

Sometimes
But not literally unavoidable

Something invisible, unseen, that gives you a disadvantage you because you didnt do something you literally cant know would not be good

I would possibly give sonar a faster recharge, maybe even a 3rd charge or maybe an added ping

If in return, the wave actually works as a wave

And if its set off, you van run away from it and not be found

Id be interested in seeing more stuff balanced this way

Stronger, but with more innate counters

[normal ice]

I mean, like I said, it could still give the pulse noise and tell them they're detected. That's a good amount of info to still use. But I'm not against other ideas instead

[shell sonnet]

In this game, audio gets lost incredibly often

We need the visual que, but you often times cant see it if its above/below you
So we cant just remove the audio cue either

And even if it doesnt get lost

How well can you pin point where a grenade landed just by sound?

Can you estimate perfectly where it wont detect you anymore?

It would be overly frustrating trying to avoid it

[normal ice]

I suppose. Oh, but what if it only showed the visual when you actually got detected by it? Like with Motion Sensor?

[shell sonnet]

Thats usually with the thether mechanic

Not sure if that would fit visually when the wave just pops into existence

[normal ice]

I mean to say the wave would be shown, but only if it hits you

But you know, actually, screw all my suggestions. The real buff we need is to make the visual effect on detected enemies less noisy and obnoxious. It is HARDER to shoot them when they have those weird glittery colors overlaying them. Just wish it was an outline like in TF2

[shell sonnet]

No no, thats what i mean

You cant see the wave, until it hits you
Where it just suddenly pops into existence

Would be weird

I can get behind that

I wonder what other things from tf2 could fit this gane...

Possibly the demoknight charge for sword m2

Only deals 140 damage at the very end of your charge (in return gets more reach)
So its more used for starting engagements
Not to deal high damage bursts over and over again

[normal ice]

true invis, ability to toggle on and off viewmodels, custom HUD, outlines on objectives, and funny 3rd person model in the bottom left corner :)

[shell sonnet]

I was for true invis at one point
But im not so sure anymore

[normal ice]

Obviously cloak and vanish bomb would need nerfs in other areas

[shell sonnet]

Attacking out of true invis is kind of a no go
But needing to wait to decloak wouldnt fit this game

Would likely turn useless, unless its silenty at which point counterplay is being reduced again

[normal ice]

I think waiting for decloak would fit. Just make it like 0.25s or 0.5s instead of 2s.

Or if we can't have that, just add a damage nerf when coming out of cloak. Maybe 50% for the first shot. Or a ramp-up over the course of 0.5s

[shell sonnet]

One idea would have been full invis + attacking out of invis

But its always loud

But that kills the quick hiding tech

Ok so, what about this

True invis
Cloak always makes a sound, this sound always sounds the same in a certain range, no matter where they stand in relation to you
Cant attack out of cloak
Said sound effect still plays during decloak, so you cant tell when theyre decloaking

Always gotta be on your toes with one of them around

But at the same time, both parties get more out of it

Cloak lights dont get beamed for moving their pinky toe
And the enemies get more responsive counterplay

[normal ice]

I think the decloak would have to last at least a solid second to allow enemies to survey their surroundings when they hear the noise

But otherwise, I'd be down for it

[shell sonnet]

I mean, maybe not a full second, but like .75

During which, the cloak noise still plays, so they cant just not give a shit until its gone

They actually need to pay attention the whole time

But thats more of a rework for cloak

I think vanish bomb is pretty much perfect

[normal ice]

Nah, I'd like vanish bomb to be true invis, too

This half-visibility thing just isn't fair or coherent design

[shell sonnet]

Well, if in doubt, at least that would remove the jank between different graphic settings

[normal ice]

Exactly lol

[shell sonnet]

That was a wild week, couldnt see the cloak

But demat looked kinda sick like that

Just light blue lines with a blue undertone, otherwise cleat as the sky

Shoul kinda stay that way tbh

[normal ice]

Yeah, I miss it, too

Or at least turn down the opacity on the current effects

[shell sonnet]

We have already seen perfection, why mess with something else?

[normal ice]

Because sometimes you gotta compromise with companies lol. Embark already spent time and money on the silly extra effects. I doubt they'd want to just cull some of them, even if it's objectively right

[shell sonnet]

More like "why attempt somethinf else"
Whatever

[shell sonnet]

I think its reused for data reshaper

And they can always use it for sometbing else again

Also, isnt that a sunken cost fallacy?

"We put so much effort into it, maybe its not worth it but i dont want the work to be in vain so we will stick with whats objectively worse"

[normal ice]

It is. And that's honestly how these game companies operate sometimes

Look at the Wheel of FOMO. Everyone hates its guts and they haven't said anything about it lol

[shell sonnet]

I mean

Waiting to react to feedback until its actually done is an option
Reacting and slightly changing it midway is an option, but nor a must do

Personally, i like the wheel

It just has its problems
Without repeats, id love it

It would be awesome if it were used to reintroduce lost items like steal the spotlight, bunny bash, smoking guns etc.

Make it like 5k vr to spin

Boom, fomo reduced and vrs finally have a use

Throw the random hat in there and maybe an over the top fancy knive like csgo and im happy

[normal ice]

I want to convert 5k VRs to 1 multibuck 😋

[shell sonnet]

We will be eating well tonight

[languid crag]

2k vrs for 50 multibuck

[normal ice]

Tbh that'd be a bit too generous. I don't think Embark could really incentivize buying multibucks then

5k for 10 seems reasonable to me

Consider WT gives you 250 at most

[languid crag]

3k for 20

revolver skin idea https://discord.com/channels/1008696016318513243/1303634729072852993

thas my

[echo citrus]

Hello! Any fellow 357 user here? I want to know what you prefer between the iron sights and compact reflector (red dot) and why. Thanks!

[mellow vector]

Irons. Front sight post makes it easier to head tap for me.

[midnight cape]

I prefer the irons, red dot feels like it doesn't return to center on follow-up shots but I don't feel it as much with irons

[echo citrus]

@mellow vector @midnight cape @Ah, thank you for your answers! I also noticed that the red dot is quite unstable and it felt better to use the irons. Also, I felt that I can ADS faster with the irons? Is that the case or only my perception?

[mellow vector]

I haven't noticed either ADSing faster, but I also haven't really paid much attention, admittedly.

[languid crag]

ammo changing idea for incendiary 10% reduce in damage but 25% chance to light enemies on fire

[languid crag]

the revolver needs a scope

[desert falcon]

It has one

[languid crag]

its not a scope its a red dot sight idiot

[lethal oxide]

anyone play light on console? how to easily use other weapon than m11 💀

[sharp zenith]

I recommend a (kind of) high fov

[vale obsidian]

i don't think there's even an answer to that question :P

its too genaral

[sharp zenith]

And one of my favourite weapons has to be the new shotgun, don't need too much brainpower for it honestly

[lethal oxide]

i see

[vale obsidian]

i mean there's is one but it just such a bad advice lmao

[lethal oxide]

but i find it harder to use it, maybe my sens too low

[lethal oxide]

what is it :d

[vale obsidian]

play more, get more experience, gitgud, silly noob lol

[sharp zenith]

My advice is be patient with your shots

(but make sure you shoot them eventually lol)

[lethal oxide]

😭😭 im good at using m11, but when bored, i just play medium

[lethal oxide]

i see, i tend to spam it

[sharp zenith]

Yeah better tracking is all I've got for ya chief my apologies 😔

[vale obsidian]

@lethal oxide do you have a clip of your gameplay?

[lethal oxide]

nah, maybe ill send later, just learn how yo record on PS

[vale obsidian]

i use pc so idk how people record on ps

[azure shuttle]

red dot for 93R please. Am asking till happens 😁

[languid crag]

holographic sight or acog for pike would be nice

[amber ermine]

embark bring back spamming mesh shield but lower the hp to make it more balanced

[plain wasp]

Scope is the general term for any attachment that is used for a better view

[icy forge]

Nah, just bring back 1200 hp mesh with cd

Having lower hp than 750 would just kill it

[restive plover]

Does the Famas need its sight or iron sight is just fine?

The sight is definitely better.

[restive plover]

It was already perfectly balanced where it was, the nerf was completely senseless.

[warm light]

I personally like it more without the sight ( its not good if you skope in on short range), but if you play a lot of long range than the sight is very good.

[finite spire]

defintly red dot since its only visually recoil and there is no recoil at on the gun it will always hit where you start to aim. the recoil is broken rn so it doenst matter what you use red dot help aim imo

[icy forge]

Iron sight takes a big place on your screen compared to the scope, just get the scope, it's the best option

[coarse karma]

imo the iron sight is really good on the famas but i found myself both hitting more and feeling better when i put on the sight (theoretically less clutter like the guy above me said)

[shell sonnet]

Should data reshaper have input buffer?

As in, you press, and as long as you still hold reshaper, it will reshape the first viable option

This would mostly make it easier to reshape rpg and grenades

[fleet brook]

It's already a easy gadget to use and RPG doesn't need another better counter

[amber ermine]

but 8 seconds cool down is diabolical

rather have less hp but be able to spam it

tbh it was perfect in s1 and 2 , i don't recall people complaining

and it's not hard to counter spamming considering thar all glitch gadgets neutralize it on impact

[icy forge]

S1 and 2 mesh was good but I still prefer my trusty Charge n' Slam when I play with randoms

[amber ermine]

I miss sa12 with mesh shield 😭

[past ravine]

We need more weapons for medium

[icy forge]

Same but we have to adapt now. I play KS-23 CnS or for a more troll playstyle, I got my Holtow PyroHeavy with Flamethrower and Goo gun

[ember mist]

How about we just making everything basic melee but make is percentage damage, so the way to use your gadgets to melee others without getting meleed yourself

[main cove]

Can 93R possibly get a damage buff by 1 or 2 damage. The changes to everything else to the weapon is excellent, but I personally think this would make it more viable in all situations. Headshot damage is outstanding but if not body shots is abysmal I feel. Damage of body shot feels lackluster. If that is possible. I do not know the overall feel and effectiveness of this change. Embark please consider this possibility. I know what you said in the patch notes but I do not see any other option. Thank you for listening to my suggestions.

[normal ice]

reload speed, fire rate, mag size, accuracy, and falloff are all balancing factors

[zinc kiln]

The day slegehammer gets nerfed is the day i finaly start to get good with the M60 XD

Like i love it and im prety damm good with it but like take away my ability to crush little lights and just run at heavys without conciquence and that just my entire playstyle down the drain XD

[pearl crystal]

what's the best weapon for heavy atm? akimbo?

[sand monolith]

SA1216 or deagles depending on map and team comp. But 99% of the time it’s SA1216

[pearl crystal]

what about medium?

[sand monolith]

Model

[pearl crystal]

well might as well ask for light

also is the mesh shield any useful still?

[dreamy talon]

is the xp-54 still viable ?

[zinc kiln]

I wouldn't say light it viable rn but if you do run them the Xp is propably slightly below m11

It's much beter against say one target at mid range than the m11 but loses out on cqb

[sinful dagger]

Not at all. Use m11 with sight

[finite basin]

sledge hammer doesnt need to be nerfed. they are already at a disadvantage because they cant engage in fights at a distance. meaning they cant help there teammates in team fights. only when they are up close. learn to kite melee users and you will have no issues.

[zinc kiln]

Yeah the only thing i strugle with is lights that run or stun, everything else i'm fairly good with

[dreamy talon]

Yeah i feel like i get out damaged by every single weapon rn

[shut bane]

nein

DB is busted btw, its funny watching lights switch to it in bank it whenever they start getting obnoxious

[weak kernel]

the DB is such a fun weapon and it conceptually only works if it can kill both classes in two shots, otherwise you just take a ranged weapon that can actually kill in one mag

[frosty jasper]

Is tk good on controller?

[weak kernel]

I'm worried that it's going to fall under scrutiny once/if the 1887 gets gutted because it's pretty good at playing against it

[shut bane]

it does

[weak kernel]

was so wack in season 2 when landing double meatshots didn't even leave heavy in range for a quick melee

[shut bane]

it can one burst a heavy now just need to place the shots well

its especially effective against lights and anyone if you spam your gadgets which is a given

[coral root]

Buff SCAR buff dual blades buff RPG buff MP5 buff M93R make glitch grenade explode on impact and revert LH1 to original firing animation

[torn adder]

is the data reshaper situational or do people just not know how to use it?

I use it at least almost every fight or if we're stealing cash out

[lean lily]

i just dont know how to use it

[cyan bobcat]

*FCAR

[brazen scarab]

It's just niche. It's a great counter to turrets, mines, and even grenades if you're quick enough, but it's usually easier to get value out of a different gadget instead

[torn adder]

that's exactly what I use it for. The only other gadget i'd run other than the data reshaper is the goo grenade. Just for cover but I think the data reshaper is to good to not run it. Getting rid of mines on the cash out or sonar grendaes can change an entire fight

[tired minnow]

Give model some actual spread

[cyan bobcat]

this.

[tired minnow]

Like I don't think the model is too strong, Its just not shotgun enough

Add more bullet spread, boost the damage but make it fall off really quick with distance

[restive plover]

The problem is the damage. Medium getting to run a full support loadout while having the same close range power as lights and heavies is what fuels triple medium.

The spread and falloff nerfs should be reverted and the damage nerfed below 110.

[tired minnow]

Just make it like
A shotgun

[restive plover]

That won't fix the problem.

[tired minnow]

I don't think I've ever seen a team run triple medium

Besides my own

[cosmic pendant]

hey im new on the discors can anybody tell me where i can find some mates

[restive plover]

Really? It's been all over season four.

[tired minnow]

I've seen triple light and heavy but almost never medium

[tired minnow]

#💥┇spawn-point

[cosmic pendant]

thx

[tired minnow]

And another thing, I rarely see people use the model, idk why

[restive plover]

Do you play a lot of quick cash?

[tired minnow]

Yeah

[restive plover]

That tracks.

[tired minnow]

What modes do you see triple m in?

[restive plover]

World tour and ranked.

Most people in quick cash are either:
A: Bad
B: Fucking around
C: Both

So something like model, which punishes you pretty heavily for missing, doesn't get around often.

[tired minnow]

I see

[restive plover]

World tour also sees some messing around, but since you actually get something for winning people tend to play more seriously than not.

[tired minnow]

So there's not much of a problem in casual modes

[faint steppe]

Due to the low population WT has actually been rather sweaty lately. You pretty much always have most teams running full meta + most people at least try to enter VC every time I play

[tired minnow]

Playing a round of WT, see what you mean ...

[normal ice]

Last night, I got into a WT match of literally only Mediums... Yup, 12 Mediums lol

[iron ember]

Yall I’ve been struggling to get the 5 elims with gadgets from 30 meters, anyone got any tips to help? I’ve just been chuckin grenades and hoping for the best but idk what to do anymore

Could the contract be glitched too? There are times I swear I got 30 meter or more with nades but haven’t gotten progress since

[pallid sandal]

What's the best overall weapon for light? I'm trying the LH1 but can't land shots

[fleet brook]

If you suffer from missing lights a bad class

[tulip grove]

This is true, there are a lot more Lights on "Casual" game modes while Power Shift is a 50:50 on whether or not the team comps are balanced or heavily one-class-lenient

[fleet brook]

Maybe the new shotgun because it's the spammiest weappn