💣┇weapons-gadgets

[chrome radish]

whats the best light gun rn? im just getting back into the gmae

[eager wasp]

lh1

[chrome radish]

is the v95 still good? ik a lot of people used to use it

[eager wasp]

I don't see many people using it anymore

V9S

Increased damage from 36 to 37

it did get a very teeeny tiny buff tho

[misty axle]

Frags should crackle as they roll on the ground.

[alpine ledge]

If you use the gadges they give you as a light then you coo I be instantly wiping heavy’s you literally can come from anywhere and people still try to fight from the front it’s a skill issue for most that kills the game

[crystal estuary]

man I just LOVE being two-tapped by an LH1

[eager wasp]

if you can't beat em, join em

[misty axle]

Really feels that way.
Honestly, the LH1 damage was already good, in my opinion.

Esp with that extra headshot multi and minimal drop off.. if any.

[dusty radish]

I stg I witnessed the LH1 become meta just now

2 tapped to the had as a light and im dead without even reacting, kind of a silly buff

[hardy dust]

LH1 was always the best light weapon and they gave it a significant buff

[hardy dust]

Tbf the headshot ttk went down but bc of recoil buff its much easier to hit headshots

[dusty radish]

i always used the mp5 cause how fast the ttk was

it was just insane literally witnessing the lh1 became the meta gun all of a sudden, im all for it though

[hardy dust]

It was always meta, its just that they made it even better

[hardy dust]

Mp5 is actually on the slower side of light weapons but it has rly good range and recoil control

[dusty radish]

tbf, out of experience i saw people used the throwin knives and mp5 than anything. no recognition i guess?

[hardy dust]

I think its cuz mp5 is rly easy to use and knives got a buff recently so people are using them more

LH1 was a bit janky to use with the visual recoil

[dusty radish]

Was it a bug? i did notice the recoil changing too

[hardy dust]

No, they just reduced the recoil this patch

And increased the dmg so it takes 1 less shot

[dusty radish]

like i just saw a light 4 tap a heavy with the lh1. oh my god.....

im not gonna play medium for a while 😭

[hardy dust]

Hope they nerf it soon

[dusty radish]

same

[elfin gazelle]

that does not work

it literally covers their entire hitbox

embark pls nerf 🧑‍🦼

[novel oar]

small buff to the hitbox size of arrows and damage of arrows to 2 shot mediums with a fully charged bow shot

make the damage 125 instead of 120

[elfin gazelle]

respectfully no

[novel oar]

why

[elfin gazelle]

Imo bows are already powefull enough

[novel oar]

eh

[elfin gazelle]

players with insane aim will melt you in seconds

[novel oar]

its just 5 more damage for a fully charged bow shot

PLS Embark im begging

[naive flume]

I like the bow

Hate throwing knifes though, idk why I'm unbelievably ass with them

I wish the dual swords had a charged attack if you just held the attack button, their ttk sucks imo

Melee vs melee the dual swords will usually always lose

But at the same time, you can sort of parry the melee attacks lol, it saved me from a sledgehammer once

But like, after you attack, it takes too long for you to be able to block. Look at the riot shield, its so much quicker

I don't think the swords need more damage, I think the slowness of it is it's downfall

There's my unranked take on a thing I've used like twice 😎

[rough carbon]

I think two tennis rackets or two frying pans would be a nice skin for dual blades

[naive flume]

I wish heavy had an ability to just punch people

I wanna uppercut a light through the ceiling

[misty axle]

It could always do that.
Now it only requires 1 headshot and 1 body, or just 3 bodies.

[misty axle]

Have you tried quick meleeing?
Though, I do get what you mean though. It would be a neat melee weapon.

[misty axle]

Riot shield will lose basically every melee fight because the shield doesn't do anything and 75+ish damage (I forgot the exact number) is pathetic for the swing speed.

And the shield almost never works against melee since it takes a single raycast to hit the body instead of the shield

[naive flume]

Sorry, I worded that poorly
What I meant is there's like no delay between actually swinging and putting up the shield

[naive flume]

Idk it saved me from a few sledge hammers, I go crazy with shield usually

[neon escarp]

Why tf was the light DMR buffed?? It was good before. It's painful now

[thin ermine]

Agree, it should be more rewarding for the time it takes to charge it completely, otherwise is just a slower sniper with a projectile instead of it being hitscan (which makes it harder to use)

[cosmic tide]

yeah its crazy right now im ngl, everyone is using it

[novel oar]

thank you everyone keeps telling me that its perfect and i just suck

[neon escarp]

State of Ranked rn: 5 lights vs 5 lights, all came in wielding the DMR

[spark pivot]

I dunno if this is a hot take or not, but some of the weapons in the game are significantly better than others which really sucks imo. Example of this is for light LH1, MP5, UZI are significantly better than the 93R or V95. But the main thing I'm butthurt about is the heavy class. All the weapons felt so dull to use and boring. I was praying for a new gun to use even if it was bad or not meta I guess but instead it was a melee weapon and again doesn't feel fun to use imo. I think a mid season update with new weapons would be a good thing maybe just this one time. The update in general has been fun. (apart from ranked cashout being taken away). Felt like I had to have my say somewhere. 🫡

[chilly solstice]

The lh1 needs a nerf so bad

[neon escarp]

It was balanced, not a soul complained about it, and they buffed it regardless. 💀

[dire wigeon]

bring back gadget swap for sword.

[near birch]

Nah dude I just find one spot on terminal, block all exits but one and camp with flamethrower

[lucid lintel]

Let's buff the hell of out of the LH1 and make it so obvious that it will be meta at the start of the season because why not, It's not like it has barely any recoil and does huge damage up close and even alot at long distances too. Only makes sense to make a gun that went from trash to all you see in ranked becuase thats what we call a 'buff' at embark studios. Like im so done with this any more, i know it will be changed in 2 days but like grinding for top 500 is terrible. All i see is the same stuff every game and its just boring. The worst part about this is that they might not even debuff the weapon completely and that they will come up will some bs talking about how nerfing the LH1 will make people not want to play light anymore. After this season im done with this game and its arrogant devs. I gave it so many chances

[near birch]

I feel like the LH1 should have a damage debuff

Also m60 needs a buff, it's weak as hell

[lucid lintel]

Its just LH1, recon grenades and invis

Thats all i see in ranked

[near birch]

The recon grenade visual doesn't even line up with the actual range

[lucid lintel]

Yea and with an entire team with 10 recon grenades, you won't be able to go anywhere

[idle reef]

the main issue is that lh1 wasn't even trash before, it was in a very solid place and no one was really asking for a buff

[near birch]

Debuff LH1, decrease recon range, buff V9S, nerf the XP54, add 2nd grapple charge

Also make Shotguns a high risk high reward weapon as they should be, not a mid range deleter such as the 1887

I feel by nerfing LH1 and Recon it can put most other gadgets and weapons in an equal area for light

They need LH1 to have more recoil, and give the V9S less recoil

SH1900 is in an ok state rn

[lucid lintel]

It does alot of damage aswell though. 50 damage crossmap in gamemode where health is everything is crazy

[near birch]

Decrease range and I'll be fine with it, like I said, Shotguns should be high risk high reqard

[near birch]

That too

Just decrease damage with the recoil nerf

Also buff the deflecting ability for dual blades

[neon escarp]

I like the 1887 rn, it makes it usable at mid range but you still lose most fights with it mid range

[zinc spear]

Out of all the things to nerf, 1887 is one of the more reasonable weapons by a long shot. Def not OP

[near birch]

I think, especially for the finals, things like slide jump pad boosting should return to increase the finals to a game with low skill floor, high ceiling instead of low ceiling low floor

[neon escarp]

More movement tech 👍

[near birch]

Return all the things that allow for those who practice to get better instead of those who don't to be able to just delete things

[idle reef]

sliding into jump pad's momentum loss makes no sense to me

[lucid lintel]

I very much think that its not as simple as that. These devs have constantly shown that they just don't play their own game and look at statistics more than playing. They won't nerf it completely and rather they will buff other stuff to weigh down the risk of ppl using the LH1 and they won't nerf it as hard as we think

[near birch]

Also by that I mean add rocket jumping back

[near birch]

When you have Oscar being the main play tester it's hard to use their data

They need to do the VALVe strategy, play test the shit out of everything

Or at least have a team of dedicated workers who are of varying skill to all give their opinions

After play testing ofc

[lucid lintel]

I don't understand how they can add a rank like top 500 for people who care about the game alot and not have people who are highly skilled to give them valuable infomation about what to change about the meta

It's dumb

[runic thunder]

They should release the playtest version to the community so they can get opinions from people who actually play the game

Oscar is braindead and doesn't play the game if the patch notes show anything

[lucid lintel]

Yea being able to weigh both sides of a casual gamer and a skilled gamer would do so much

[boreal fern]

why doesnt the bow have a range finder cross hair tf

[runic thunder]

Remove throwing knives from the game

[novel oar]

real

[novel oar]

??? they are in a ok spot rn

[fringe current]

theyre kinda busted

[novel oar]

true

[soft shale]

2 hits kill a full HP L
4 hits kill a full HP M
I don't know for H but it musn't be that much more.

Since you're throwing them 2 by 2 the TTK can be insane leaving zero room for counterplay. There are times when you just can't do anything but die.

[smoky jackal]

lh1 gotta be the most braindead light weapon now

[soft shale]

Yes. And God knows I liked this weapon a lot before. But it took some skill to use right due to the high visual recoil. You had to manage your ROF and aim accurately at range. They've lowered recoil because of "motion sickness" or whatever. LOL. In a game like The Finals where everything just constantly blows up at your face, motion sickness caused by the recoil of a gun is the least concerning thing ever.

The XP54 was one of the strongest weapons of the Light class/the game but it now pales in comparison.

The LH1 should have been left as is, or even nerfed a little. It should have shit hipfire for instance. This is also what should have been done to the FCAR, while keeping the ammo cap at 20 and the DMG per hit at maybe 24. High recoil guns should hit hard but be crap if you're not ADS, making them harder to use up close.

Regarding Medium weapons, I don't know what else to use beyond the AKM for versatility, or the M1887 to stand a fighting chance up close against high DPS Light weapons. Which is kinda sad honestly.

[frosty mauve]

Can we get a petition to remove sniper from terminal attack?

[sand monolith]

It is 3 bodyshots for a light and 4 for medium. I don’t remember the shots to kill for heavy but the ttk is 1.5s which is very long. They are honestly fine

[primal atlas]

.

[dim onyx]

how does the secondary attack work on the spear, it literally does 0 damage for me

[green falcon]

i've heard there have been issues with it's hit reg and physics interactions on the power shift platform, hopefully they'll get patched this week but for the time being it's best to just not use it unfortunately

just the secondary fire, primary has felt good though to me at least

[velvet coral]

thx for this, never tried experimenting but was curious to see if it worked that way

[neon escarp]

Light SG 2-shots heavy???

[soft shale]

We've had this talk before

They still feel like shit to get killed by especially with the constant spam.

[sand monolith]

Yes mainly because the animation for them being thrown at you is horrible. They are also a burst damage weapon so of course they feel bad to be hit by

That’s not really a great reason to nerf them when they’re actually fine

[young fable]

They could have it so that 3 hits kill L, 5 hits kill m… heavies? You tell jokes, friend

We should rework headshots entirely and have all the weapons be more uniform, given how fast the game is, trying to carefully aim for the head is a little pointless

[novel oar]

sure

can we just remove snipers in general

[worthy olive]

they should minimize the damage reflected from medium swords, nerf the light weapons, and make invis make more noise or have some form of way to detect them if we are still wanting to be invis

[timber sparrow]

the last thing the swords need is a nerf

if someone blocks just stop shooting

[wild nexus]

jesus the LH1 does way too much damage way too fast

[magic goblet]

tbh lights are glass cannons now. Too many easy to use high-damage, flexible weapons while heavies get two sub-par firefight weapons (lewis and mg) and super niche 'tool' weapons that don't feel that effective, aren't versatile, or are super situational. It's not really fun to play heavy now unless you're in a team

[timber sparrow]

honestly I mostly play world tour and 2 heavy and one medium team still seem to be the meta.

[hallow leaf]

The heavy LMGs are on par with medium ARs, there is nothing wrong with them

Just because they no longer have a faster ttk then medium ARs doesn't mean they are bad

[sick dirge]

A useless but niche gadget I’ve been suggesting is what i call the Gas Mask with this you can throw down gas and take no damage. It can be used as a resource like thermal vision

[restive plover]

Buff m60

[ocean zinc]

spear needs a pull on enemies or some damage miti on spin, would make it more fun

[terse crater]

anyone seen those shock traps yet? i was in a game and there were mines down that arced towards players but didnt do damage or stun

[soft ether]

glitch mines they went from really bad to decent to use

[sick dirge]

Glitch traps were reworked, they now tether to enemies. They will be glitched the entire time they are within range and sight

[terse crater]

thank yall!

[dire crag]

dual blade interaction with tracker dart has gotta be glitched how tf do i still get tracked when i deflect it

[dapper vessel]

Hopefully all melee weapons get a general buff while their fun to play their barely viable and just not viable at all in any competitive gameplay

Spear should definitely get a big buff

[restive plover]

LH1 is so broken lol

[dire crag]

dual blade genuinly doesnt work vs LH1 the damage that still passes through to me still kills me in like half their mag

[sick dirge]

Because of the partial damage that creeps through. As for the LH1. I’m sure you know this but whatever you deflect is still full damage to the enemy so if you aim it back at the enemy you will kill them before they kill you

[dire crag]

not when im rooted blocking and their dashing around with near perfect hipfire

[arctic fog]

I'm not sure that I completely understand the mechanics behind the reflect ability. Sometimes it just doesn't work.

[dreamy hare]

i think enemy just shooting into your legs, so you dont deflect anything

[stone walrus]

The reflect registration may entirely be server side. Despite you holding m2 and aiming at the target, it's either the server realising you're reflecting too slow or it's thinking your target is somewhere else than where you're aiming.

[sacred cypress]

Embark should rework the spear such that it can be thrown with a toggle feature. They should also fix the alt attack cause it feels super inefficient and clunky as of now.

[sacred cypress]

agreed.

[burnt gyro]

yes

[dreamy hare]

and what heavy will do after he throw a spear??

[sacred cypress]

u have to wait for it to come back to ur hand (kinda like thors hammers) so u can't just spam and it and it can also punish u for missing. Or maybe it rematerialses after a certain cooldowm but preferably the first one

[icy sparrow]

Pick it up😂

[runic thunder]

change right click to a spear throw, also infinite ammo isnt a problem with being on the TK and bow so why cant heavy have it?

[inner osprey]

like trident in minecraft xD

[sacred cypress]

Fairs but to compensate for the people who'd be complaining about it. I thought waiting for it would be a good idea

[runic thunder]

I mean they don't seem to care about people crying about TK so why shouldn't they

[sacred cypress]

Yeah fair enough

[lapis grove]

Wusgood medium chat
Dough wrangler or Diskette Bezel on the Model?
Or maybe even Concrete Smoke/Argon Glow

[lapis grove]

how so?

[lapis grove]

I've also heard the fact you don't see your left arm also helps?

[meager prism]

alr so what new weapon can we get in season 4? rubber duck for heavy and Nuke launch codes for light? Might aswell give mediums a semi-automatic sniper rifle.

[spark pivot]

this is the most accurate thing ive ever seen, RIP to us heavy mains

[meager prism]

Seriously, I wouldn't be suprised if heavies actually got like a rubberband gun or something next season, while they keep giving lights OP crap.

[spark pivot]

I hit top 500 in beta with heavy and diamond last season with heavy too. And honestly im just so burnt out with the weapons in this class. Lewis gun has no place, m60 is just stale, melee is trash and my beloved auto shotty has never been the same since beta. the slug shotgun is the only (somewhat) nice thing that feels refreshing

What heavy needs is a deagle or a DMR like a G3 or FAL

[meager prism]

Comparing heavie's arsenal to light's is like comparing Scooters to Crawler-Transporters.

[spark pivot]

ive been playing light a lot recently, while the good guns are strong like mp5, lh1, throwing knives etc etc, the pistols are absolutely trash

[meager prism]

The only weapon lights use are: Bow, LH1, and Throwing knives. and sometimes sword since they fixed the Cancel bug on it (Womp Womp).

[spark pivot]

yea I forgot about the bow, medium is the only class that feels like it has a balanced variety

[meager prism]

I still hate Fcar to this day.

[spark pivot]

To use or to go against it

[meager prism]

against it

[spark pivot]

I feel like the AK is just better in nearly every way (not by much) so its an interesting take

[meager prism]

The new Spear for heavy sucks tbh. Embark just looked at medium and heavy and tought: "They lack 1 melee. Lets give them 1 random BS japanese people used and there."

[spark pivot]

the medium swords are rather cool imo but the spear is so lifeless hahaha

[meager prism]

BTW, I get the idea of the RPG's nerf, it was resonable. BUT THE DAMAGE WE GET FROM SHOOTING IT CLOSE TO US IS RIDICULOUS. LIKE WE GOT OVER 240 DAMAGE WHILE THEY ONLY TAKE 140????

[spark pivot]

I cant lie habibi I think that its a good thing, even though it sucks for us heavy mains. stops it being a get out of jail free card

[meager prism]

Well it's still dumb, that we take A lot more damage from it than them.

[spark pivot]

Do you remember the C4 nukes hahahahahaha

[meager prism]

They killed it completely, but fair enugh lol

[spark pivot]

The amount of times I killed whole teams with 1 barrel was insane, I do kinda wish there wasnt a delay on the c4 so it is still a viable strat to get some damage in

[meager prism]

Well atleast us heavies got a limited event once, called STEAL THE SPOTLIGHT. I kinda miss that.

[spark pivot]

Lmao

[meager prism]

Tbh, heavies will probably get a handgun next season, since we ain't got 1 yet.

Like maybe dual deagles.

[spark pivot]

dont have a DMR either

Deagles would be dope, but I also wouldnt complain at a G3 or FAL

[meager prism]

We lack long range weapons for sure.

[spark pivot]

Exactly which doesnt make sense concidering heavy has the slowest movement speed

[meager prism]

Man, what I wouldn't do to use a fricking minigun with heavy.

[spark pivot]

now that would be funny

[meager prism]

who needs nukes when you can spray lead inside the enemies?

[carmine kite]

Bolt Action rifle for heavy would be sick good dmg slow fire rate

Sth for range

[sand monolith]

It actually makes a lot of sense and it’s standard design for tank classes in fps games. The heavy in finals is meant to do big damage and have a lot of hp which would automatically make it the best class in the game by virtue of winning every trade. To make it fair, heavy has very limited range so that it is still a threat but the counterplay is to keep your distance. It also helps keeping the heavy as a defense focused class, as you’re much weaker trying to push an objective when you’re really slow

This is why the Lewis gun being a good ranged weapon in s2 was such a huge issue

[spark pivot]

Thats a valid opinion, but I think the movement speed is the counter still. Either way some more variety in the class would be nice.

[restive plover]

So what are our thoughts on the Spear? Surely it won’t get nerfed…

[sand monolith]

yeah the movement speed other classes have over heavy is a good counter otherwise they would just be fucked.

but also yes heavy REALLY needs some variety in it's weapons. the lewis gun was nerfed but now heavy really only has the sa12 and m60 as far as normal weapons go. its very unfortunate that they added a spear instead of a regular gun

[spark pivot]

As soon as I saw the spear in the trailer my heart sank 🤣

[sand monolith]

like mannn i wanted another gun for heavy. hes really the only class that needs one rn

[soft shale]

I may be wrong, but I feel like several M/H weapons have had their damage per hit nerfed based on their optimal DPS/TTK, which can only be achieved in a best case scenario where 100% of your shots hit enemy targets.

Does that best case scenario happen in game ? Sometimes it does, but in general I would say no, at least not against skilled players who know how to use cover and/or their class abilities to dodge/block incoming damage. Firefights are often more a succession of windows of opportunities where each side manages to land a few good shots on the other. So the optimal DPS/TTK is less relevant than the ability a weapon has to drop enemy health in a few hits.

As an illustration of this, when playing Medium with the AKM, I usually become the king of assists because while I do hit targets a lot, I have a harder time finishing them off before they duck behind cover. While with the M1887 it's exactly the opposite since each accurate shot hits so hard on L/M, I get more kills and less assists.

I don't know if I've explained it well but my point here is that I'd rather have all guns with slightly higher damage per hit overall.

[spark pivot]

100% bro

[vestal kelp]

why the stuff getting more and more expensive

[blissful surge]

I swear if you wanna master light class use the dagger if you get good with that your basically a light god

Hardest weapon to use in my opinion

[blissful surge]

Ehhh heavy weapons and the light smg would be crazy with a damage buff lights mac 10 can rip through any class

But the akm is kinda low damage for what it should be at least match the famas damage typically you should run grenade and other things for additional damage for medium in this game medium is more of a support then a heavy

But to be fair when you learn the akm spread and recoil it’s really good become a headshot freak

[steel glacier]

Economy sucks

[vestal kelp]

no the stuff that costs vrs

[restive plover]

To give people who constantly have 3k something to spend it all on.

[vestal kelp]

fair

[blissful surge]

I assume the later the game is the more better weapons will come out at the better the weapon is overall the more it will cost

[blissful surge]

What would be the best setup for using a dagger in terminal attack?

[dire heron]

My mind immediately went to smokes or nvis

Close areas stuff not being seen much is probably best

Like running smoke, dash and sonar

[blissful surge]

I tried the invisible but ngl I think everyone in ranked just knows what to look for so cloaking is useless

[dire heron]

smoke off any terminal, toss in your sonars and go to work dashing

[blissful surge]

Yeah man is it hard using a dagger in that game mode it’s driving me crazy but it’s my fave weapon so I gotta learn

[dire heron]

Well I would say give that a go

I would say your biggest enemy is being seen you know so smoke and sonars in combo could be strong if you are good with dagger

[blissful surge]

I’m good with dash but i normally run grenades gas and flash so i can dash up throw what i need if they inside then dash back down to a different floor

Play like hot potato but with the windows

[dire heron]

I could see that working too but in higher lobbies may become tricky while fully visable

[blissful surge]

I think they need to adjust the back stab area a little for the dagger sometimes I stab people and it counts as a normal hit idk if it just doesn’t register or what

[dim onyx]

tk lh1 rpg nerf please for the love embark wake up

[blissful surge]

Does being invisible also numb your footstep sound or no?

[twilit garnet]

nope

you're quite loud when invis

[blissful surge]

Damn that would be nice if it did that’s my only real issue with the dagger people sound whore like crazy and hear me dash behind them or running to stab them lol 😆

[calm gorge]

tk lh1 rpg nerf please

[blissful surge]

They need to nerf bows if anything

[dim onyx]

bows arent even the start of the issue

[twilit garnet]

bows are fine lmao, a bit weak even if anything

[blissful surge]

Weakkkk the fact you can 1 shot any light is weak?

Like at least with the sniper you have a bolt animation but you can just rapid with the bow and do the same damage it’s very op

And you can shoot the thing across the map

At least give a arrow a drop off

[timber sparrow]

throwing knives

[dim onyx]

light needs an overhaul rework bad. meads still uses turret crutch. rpg crutch for heavy. devs are more concerned ab netting in the dumbass tik tok brain ppl rather than fixing their fucking game

[mellow gazelle]

Cl40 feels terrible after the nerf

[restive plover]

Turret has always been garbage, even more so with the recent nerf.

[dim onyx]

idk what games u b getting into but everygane ive been in since the start of the season has been turrets and demat or triple light

if i can even get into a game or get a full team

[restive plover]

Likely testing the changes to see how it feels.

[timber sparrow]

throwing knives just need to leave

[blissful surge]

Ehhh when you get good with your shots they just become a pest if anything

They do need to make it so you can shoot while being grabbed by the claw hook that way you can at least stand a chance when you do get grabbed

[timber sparrow]

the claw hook is my only clutch right now against those pesky lights

[blissful surge]

Dawg your a heavy it’s like 2 shots with any shotgun from that class and they dead

[lyric granite]

what do you think about the throwing knives?

[misty axle]

If the LH1 can do over 50+ damage, can the revolver do 75+?

[dim onyx]

The community begged for TA to be ranked. Well it is ranked now and cash out is still in the game for you to play. People complaining about TA being slow are full of shit, cash out can be even worse. Quick cash or bank it are the only truly action packed modes. Cash out will be ranked again. I look forward to playing ranked cash out, but i'm having a hard time finding the energy to even be upset about it. I'm just playing the game & enjoying the entertainment provided to me.....for free.

people wanted it to be an addition not for it to replace the mode entirely @vital forge

[vital forge]

Good thing it's not replaced entirely We were told it will return

After some reworks, which we also asked for

[blissful surge]

People that say ta is slow have never played a rank game in there life lol

[dim onyx]

what in a 100 days?? again nobody wanted it to replace ranked cashout what part of that dont u get

[blissful surge]

Those people are the ones that die first and have to watch 80% of the game

[vital forge]

I'm pretty sure they said after being reworked & how will they do that with us actively playing it?

[vital forge]

Eureka!

[blissful surge]

I think it’s perfect the way it is I mean every ranked game is like that

[dim onyx]

lol meat ride harder. they gutted ranked for a mode nobody wants to play. makes 0 sense to make a newley introduced game mode the new face of ranked for an entire season when the entire playerbase has been playing ranked cashout??

[vital forge]

I love this game and I love ranked cash out;
But the way the community is handling these changes is disgraceful.

[dim onyx]

then idk dont add shit nobody asked for and break ypur game upon a new season

[vital forge]

Oh damn. That's pretty crazy. My comment I was already typing applies to you🤣

[dim onyx]

keep meat riding

[vital forge]

Keep growing as a person

[dim onyx]

its a good look for u

[blissful surge]

Again the people that go to ta ranked and complain do good in cash out but it’s a entire different game

[dim onyx]

so why not have 2 ranked modes instead of replacing one, it alienates an entire subsect of the community

[blissful surge]

They will probably add cash out but ta the way it is your typically ranked game style

Cs, Valant,cod defuse and plant

[vital forge]

Why not assume that's the road we're on Instead of grabbing your pitch forks?

[vast blaze]

How does the LH1 buff feel to ya guys in comparision to playing the silenced pistol and/or sniper? and/or bow

[vital forge]

Best weapon in the game by far. It actually makes some matches just no fun.

[vast blaze]

yea understandable

[blissful surge]

Ngl the silence pistol will probably be the last gun I ever unlock why run that when your footsteps are loud as hell

[vast blaze]

they are not loud if you play light? or sneak

[blissful surge]

Ehhhh yeah they are

Unless you never run in a game

But your more likely to get ran up on then get a kill doing that

[vital forge]

I don't feel like light should be able to directly challenge challenge a heavy and easily win...

[boreal laurel]

The V9S isn’t even that quiet. If you do want to leverage the silencer though, you can shoot from range—they’ll never hear the gun OR you, and V9S is actually really good at range

[vital forge]

Even though you can hear, the shots is still really hard to distinguish where they're being fired from

[blissful surge]

They don’t omg like is so heady to kill there hp is terrible heavy weapons do so much damage and no one is accurate with them

[blissful surge]

Even then every team that’s good runs sonar

Omg I have ptsd of tracking darts

[soft shale]

The M60 and Lewis both saw their damage nerfed by 3 (from 22 to 19 and 25 to 22). IMHO, only the Lewis needed a nerf, because it was as strong as the old FCAR, with twice the ammo count, decent range, decent hipfire. The M60 was barely used by anyone already, especially in ranked games, so why they also nerfed it is beyond me. 🤷🏻

I honestly would be curious to see them tweaked like in Battlefield V: no ADS and shit hipfire, unless the weapon is supported on its bipod. Then you get ADS, very manageable recoil and strong damage output, at the cost of having to setup the gun/staying still while using it.

It would make LMGs a very strong defensive tool, which could still be countered in many ways because Heavies wouldn't be able to lay down accurate fire on the move.

[dim onyx]

bc it makes infinitely more sense to have to ranked modes ypu focus on and work on rather than remove one add a new game mode then make the removed version a new lesser version thats somehow mlre annoying to play??? the point was to have fun and play how i want not be shoe horned into playing shit i dont want to play

[blissful surge]

Nah that hip fire thing would be aids ngl

Like a bipod lmg sniper with a dude that has 300 hp yeahhhh

Anyways if you crouch your hip fire goes brrrr

[desert apex]

are they doing anything on the LH1 + TK? I am using TK until they nerfed

[vital forge]

M60 shoots paintballs at any range & Lewis was gutted as well. Heavy is only dangerous with an arm's reach now.

[blissful surge]

I mean the granade launcher is op if you know what your doing but I think he is fine tbh just learns there recoil patterns and you will laser people with the m60 or the Lewis tbh

[vital forge]

At about 40 m.
I had to hit a guy with about 8 shots to finish....he had 50 hp when I started firing.

The grenan launcher certainly is not

[blissful surge]

Honestly if you heavy I just gotta say run the grenade launcher and rpg and body slam

[soft shale]

The M60 needs way too many hits on target to be effective in fast paced fights tbh.

[vital forge]

I've got countless clips of melee heavys just running straight through my magazine and caving my skull in😅

[blissful surge]

Trust get good with grenade launcher for heavy trust trust remember one bounce and boom

[soft shale]

The reason why I'm raising this point is because I want The Finals to remain a shooter, not some chaotic melee simulator.

So the LMGs should be the main versatile weapons of the class, while others are situational reserve weapons that you can use based on the map/team comps you're facing.

[blissful surge]

I mean melee kinda Garbo tbh anyone with a gun that’s good gets the w

[dense solar]

so whats the meta rn guys for light/medium?

[vital forge]

Oh I'm good with grenade launcher, but it doesn't match my play style. I don't enjoy sitting on a rooftop.

@dense solar I'm not telling you for light.
Because it's cancer😅

[blissful surge]

Dawg it’s good anywhere tbh just gotta know angles and that one bounce before exploding

[vital forge]

Grenade launcher is a positioning weapon. It is not good from anywhere. Sure, you can make shit happen sometimes, but you need to use it like similar to a snipebuto be really effective.

Similar to a sniper

[blissful surge]

Nahhh you can play close again just 1 bounce and boom you don’t need to shoot from a far lol like bounce off a wall and hit a guy around a corner shoot it close to your feet to hit a guy close to you

[dense solar]

sounds like LH1 is op again

[vital forge]

There needs to be consistency for it to be good. Constantly Looking for Shit to bounce your grenades off of doesn't give consistency. That makes it a weapon of opportunity.

[blissful surge]

Like my friend that uses that in ta for heavy gets like 10-14 kills a game

[vital forge]

I have a friend that gets thirty plus kills a game with the sniper, but that doesn't make it a good pick.

(In Quick cash)

[blissful surge]

Or like when you put the key in you can bounce the granade off wall into a hole in the defuse room and the other team will never find you that’s always fun time

[vital forge]

Gahdammit

[neon escarp]

The Silenced Pistol is just a fun weapon to play ngl. It's where it should be; you can master it and hit headshots in combination with good movement to win most fights against non-meta weapons. I would really love if the rest of the weapons available could be around the same level. If anything, a good buff for it would be to add a sight like the FCAR for precision shot placement, because while it performs well on headshots, it feels like a pea shooter when you aren't hitting those crits.

[blissful surge]

I’m just saying it’s pretty op in this game if you use it right you can basically shoot a granade anywhere where bullets you have to shoot directly at a target that’s my opinion though

[neon escarp]

Grenade launcher is mids as can be

It's not awful and not good except situationally, more of a gimmick than anything. Also super inconsistent which is not something you want in a weapon

[blissful surge]

If you says so 🤷

[neon escarp]

Medium grenade launcher is pretty solid though

[vital forge]

The term OP has lost its meaning. I think the thoughts you're trying to portray, are the fact that it's usable.

[neon escarp]

OP is like the LH1 becoming so ingrained in meta overnight due to balancing changes that I joined a gold-low plat ranked match and everyone was using it

I did terribly in that match because I didn't realize that hipfire still has terrible spread on all guns until the very end (it drew a circle around the enemy and I tested it on a tree 5 feet in front of me, missed half the mag 💀)

[blissful surge]

Mind if I dm you a video haha

[vital forge]

The only way I've been able to deal with it is not challenging at any range. whatsoever.

[vague monolith]

Antigrav goes crazy with the winch

[vital forge]

Sure

Well; no I don't mind.

[blissful surge]

There ya go

[vital forge]

Nothing

[blissful surge]

You didn’t get it?

[vital forge]

Oh, yeah. I found it I had to accept the it

You sent me A clip of 1 rpg kill and 1 charge & slam kill.

[blissful surge]

Ta lol

[vital forge]

Cool

[blissful surge]

And it was 4 kills sir

[vital forge]

To be honest, I could see it being a bit better in that mode, since there's no healing. It still can't hold a flame to the heavy LMG former glory.

[blissful surge]

Ehhh I don’t even play heavy but my friend does good with that build

[vital forge]

I'm ending the discussion here😅

[blissful surge]

😂

How much damage does a headshot from the bow do?

[vital forge]

Not sure, but as a heavy, it feels like an rpg

Gotta be 100 -150

[blissful surge]

I hate bows more then anything

As someone that uses a dagger they scare me

[vital forge]

Dagger is the worst perpetrator😡

You're one of them! lol

[blissful surge]

Oweee haha I’m the worst if your in a building I will legit dash out a window and dash in the window behind you and 1 shot you

[vital forge]

Getting out plate is fine but backstabbing from in front of people is pure bullshit

[blissful surge]

I did that before they thought I just jumped out to the ground haha

[vital forge]

Out played

[blissful surge]

If you get good enough with dash it’s almost like you can fly

[dapper vessel]

I'm still on my knees praying for a heavy buff 😭🙏 yeah theyre good for health and explosive damage but their guna are js so ASS and theyre to slow to catch up to anybody with the new spear too. They needs better guns/ gun buffs and major buffs to the spear

[vital forge]

I've got a ton of clips being back stabbed in the face,& even from 5-6 above the light while doing a slam... When it happens it just feels so unfair.

[blissful surge]

They should make it so you can throw the spear and it’s a 1 shot

[dapper vessel]

I know no matter how skilled you are it doesn't matter because your js too slow and weapons too bad and our big health pool doesn't matter because everyone shoots at the heavy first

[dapper vessel]

Spear throw would go crazy and it would actually make it viable and fun to use too

[vital forge]

Well, this is likely a result of
people directly challenging, losing a fight and then running to scream nerf heavy.

[blissful surge]

At least if your a heavy it takes 2 stabs

[vital forge]

When you're 300 pounds at 10 hp you are just.... dead

[dapper vessel]

Yeah cause your to slow to do anything about it and it basically makes your big health pool useless

[blissful surge]

Ehhhh I think it does 200 hp per back stab

[vital forge]

Since there are so many weapons that instantly take that health-pool away. I think one tap for the rpg is only fair.

[blissful surge]

I think that’s right because it’s normally stab two swings for heavy

[vital forge]

No, it definitely does.
More than 200

[dapper vessel]

People js scream NERF HEAVY but at this point we're the most useless class and only ever good for dying for your teamates safety

[blissful surge]

You can 1 tap a light with a rpg but it has to be a direct hit

[vital forge]

Backstab does 320 damage & rpg does 149 damage max.

[blissful surge]

Maybe 259 I know it doesn’t one shot heavy but you still have at least 50-100 hp after

[dapper vessel]

I just hope they give heavy more weapons/ weapons buffs because the only viable weapons now are js the m60 wich is very stale and boring to use and the sa16 wich has a short range for a slow big target and the spear needs big buffs too

[blissful surge]

Sludge is still good

[dapper vessel]

Yeah sledge is still good it's my main weapon cause it's fun too

[blissful surge]

Ohhh yes the sludge hammer a dagger persons worst nightmare

Sledge*

[vital forge]

A lot of fights are ranged and they've basically taken range from heavy, that's why people that play the class are complaining.

[dapper vessel]

Played heavy since beta and I can say they massacred my boy

[vital forge]

Same; up until now I've always been able to change play style & adjust but having no good range just feels like I can't even fight back... For god's sakes the recurve bow Is a better ranged weapon then the lmg...

[silk viper]

Thats kinda the whole point, we’re tanks, heavies the easiest to play imo (apart from light w taser👹)

[dapper vessel]

Valid js wish they're weapons were more viable because the fun weapons which are like thf sledge and spear are fun they're not viable

[alpine ledge]

Once again it’s a skill issue stop changing things complaining it’s literally a counter for everything and half of the people dont use it it’s crazy

[vital forge]

Were tanks, past tense.

[humble scaffold]

playing this game turned me into a femboy

[alpine ledge]

Everybody damn near run the same thing

[vital forge]

What do you suppose heavy class should use for a counter at forty meters?

[left helm]

how hasn't the LH1 had a nerf yet

[alpine ledge]

I have no problem running my heavy learn to move around use your head 😂stop playing direct

Yall keep complaining about everything killing the game fr

[vale musk]

Anyone worked better combo for dual blades than swing qm swing qm finisher?

[vital forge]

What you're saying is run sledgehammer instead lol gotcha

[dapper vessel]

I love the dual blades I think it's actually good damage wise RN but hopefully gets it's deflect feature buffed because of your crosshair isn't on the player shooting at you it won't deflect or even block

[vale musk]

You dont need aim directly to block, it has an angle that deflects, everything goes into place where you aim

You can block few ppl and deflect into one of them

[dapper vessel]

You got the right mentality for the finals and your right but heavy still needs weapon buffs for lower skill players

[dapper vessel]

Thx bro didn't know that

[vale musk]

Check dms for more info 🙂

[silk viper]

Dome shield, Barricades, MeshShield, Goo Gun, 70% of our tools give us tankability, just gotta use them correctly 🫡

[misty quartz]

Honestly think goo gun is op asf if you use it correctly, its basically a stun gun with no cd

[alpine ledge]

How much of a buff that’s literally a person error ? I can hop in a room with a flame thrower and kill everyone

Somebody is chasing me il throw a mine in front of me they hit it and now im chasing them like use your gadges

People be making things more complicated

[vital forge]

No one's complaining about close quarters.

[dapper vessel]

Heavy mentality is the most important thing that keeps us alive, mentality like yours

[misty quartz]

Do heavies like want a heavy sniper or smth

[eager fog]

Add a Portal Gun! 🕳 🔫

So much server-side data already

It could fit right into mediums kit

Everyone loves em ❤

[vital forge]

No, we want to be able to fight back at 30+ meters

[alpine ledge]

Not what they made for

[misty quartz]

As fun as a portal gun is, we alr have lights portal grenades, and if you want portals as in like the portal game, with how much destruction is im the game, it would be easy to destroy it

[alpine ledge]

Like w situation are you constantly getting into that is a problem

[tight nexus]

So I know we have the M60 but what if we had an actual machine gun with a long barrel, 150 rounds or smth, fast fire rate, slow turn speed, 5 dmg per bullet or smth

[alpine ledge]

The amount of heavy’s when I’m playing light or medium who be lazering me is crazy and you tripping about long range

[vital forge]

You certainly do not run m60.

[alpine ledge]

I have

And don’t have a problem

[vital forge]

lol ok

[alpine ledge]

How you getting tight cause you have a skill issue

[vital forge]

You're just arguing for fun I see

[alpine ledge]

I’m not arguing they literally make the game a certain way for people to play a certain way and you steady trying to change the game

[tight nexus]

It was an idea to add a sniper not a need

[twilit garnet]

man y'all are grumpy

[alpine ledge]

This a debate we just talking and you taking it to heart it’s never that serious

[misty quartz]

isnt the number one tip to counter heavy is to not get close to them, and you want to remove that weakness?

[vital forge]

Nah it's just lucky, Scroll up to the discussion before he trolled up.

[eager fog]

I forgot bout the 'nade 🤔
Still, could be super coool

[tight nexus]

Anyone think a chainsaw would be crazy for a melee for heavy

[misty quartz]

idk how youll balance a heavy just holding down click, and if you cant, wouldnt sludge just be better

could still be fun tho, you just hear a chainsaw when a heavy is pushing

[tight nexus]

I was thinking it would overheat kind of like the heal beam

[tight nexus]

Nah that’s the thing I thought about you could turn it off to not make noise and it would take a .25 seconds to turn back on

[alpine ledge]

How has anything I said trolling you gotta skill gap foo its people like you constantly tripping about things when the counter was always there

[twilit garnet]

acting like a female?

[wispy lark]

Lh1 needs nerfed embark is letting their game be ruined instead of putting out an easy patch

[vale musk]

most gamer shit ive seen today

[north flint]

We need the old turret mechanic back

[tacit zinc]

Nope RPG deals 140 damages, u need one bullet to finish him.

[twilit garnet]

im like 99% sure you can oneshot a light with rpg

[blissful surge]

Could have sworn it does 200

[tacit zinc]

Nope, look in training stage

the rpg was 250 during alpha, then 200 at beta and release, then 160 and now 140.

[blissful surge]

I don’t think it’s really meant for combat anyways haha

[tacit zinc]

RPGs have always been thought of like this, I understand that it's 140 but u have to take into account the fact that the cooldown is almost 60 seconds. so the damage related to cooldown is really bad

[blissful surge]

Just use it to help your team destroy enemy cover tbh

Tbh the heavy isn’t even meant for damage in the first place its specialty is destruction

[tacit zinc]

compare the damage of heavy weapons to medium and light, in addition to the recoil values, this will allow you to put the firepower of the heavy into perspective.

HP bag, with slow movements, and huge Hitbox, knowing that all the protection gadgets have been nerfed...

[wanton cosmos]

what are you smoking?

[mellow gazelle]

You can’t that’s why it was nerfed to 140 specifically

[blissful surge]

Absolutely nothing haha name another character that can break through walls with a melee or has many explosive or has a legit ability that can destroy entire building lol this game is crazy when it comes to strategy if you think he is a damage person your just not playing right

What you gonna throw your lil tiny grenades at the wall 🥺

His main purpose is to open up the playing field or a damn building the enemy is hiding in 😂

Not damage at all 😑

[blissful surge]

Owe you talking about rpg I don’t play heavy even I like to be quick

[copper sinew]

I mean before season 3 heavy had almost the same dps as mediums with a higher health pool and a possible overload of defensive gadgets and specializations and a highest burst damage option in the game on top of that.

Only now his kill potential dropped because of the nerfs. Now he is mostly destruction and defense with high burst potential but his damage, especially at higher ranges, is the lowest for sure.

As for destruction medium's mines can destroy every wall if you place two of them on top of each other and lights have breach charges which are good at it too

[blissful surge]

Ok cool you can blow up a wall but not a building yayyy

So if anything they fixed him ?

And now everyone that was taking advantage of how broken it was is bad ?

[fossil bough]

What's the general opinion on Dual Blades? Personally, I think they're cool af, but just not viable for anything more than a bit of fun. The third attack takes too long to use, the bullet deflection is too situational to be of much use, and the limited mobility of mediums means you're forever chasing, as there's no lunge attack.

In short, a good idea in theory, but poor in practice.

[dark oxide]

Theyre dog shit, deflect doesnt compensate for anything. The frequency with which the deflect nets you a kill or saves you is far lower than the times you die anyways deflecting 1 opponent while another shoots you in the back

[copper sinew]

they are really strong up close and if you know how to move you can kill 2/3 people in a team, but they don't have the same potential light's sword has where people can wipe like 6 people if they play really well

Bullet deflection is really good on paper, it deflects like 60% of the damage you receive which means you cannot die from just getting shot if you deal damage to the person you are deflecting with every bullet you deflect, even if they are a heavy, because you will just kill them faster. In practice you will not get enough 1v1 to get good use out of it

[dark oxide]

strong up close vs other mediums not running melee or shotgun and heavy not running rpg, winch, charge, sledge, flamethrower or shotgun. SO yea strong in like a small fraction of the kind of fights you'll get to have, the majority is spent getting kited and deflect not doing shit

[verbal zealot]

Hey embark, I have a suggestion: what if all melee weapons granted a 30% movement buff to the user? I think it's a good idea because it helps the user chase down people who try to run away, but it isn't significant enough to just beeline and win. Keep up the good work btw

[blissful surge]

Dagger

They should really do that for the dagger

[glacial meteor]

i mean, maybe for non lights? idk about giving lights more speed

[verbal zealot]

I mean... Its a melee weapon...

[blissful surge]

Ehh speed doesn’t mean anything anyways tbh if your a good shot on mouse speed is nothing if your on controller then yeah you cooked

[verbal zealot]

Yea that makes sense, but I feel making it universal wouldn't really hurt

[blissful surge]

Idk how you guys play this on controller but gg

[copper sinew]

you can say that but only up to a point when a roided up heavy with a hammer runs at you with mach 10 speed and 2 shots you

[blissful surge]

Again I play light with a dagger 😅

But when I do use akm I can get a heavy down to like 50-30hp not hitting all my headshots

[copper sinew]

yeah the difference is he is gonna be 200 hp when he gets to you

[blissful surge]

Eh I’m more worried about the flame thrower then the sledgehammer tbh I can’t see shit with the flamethrower

[copper sinew]

I mean we are talking about giving speed to melee weapons

[blissful surge]

Owe man if you have me more speed with the dagger anything is cooked

[dark oxide]

i really would like for Embark to stop meatriding heavy, that class is really getting obnoxious

[copper sinew]

maybe but I think it would benefit other weapons more, a lot more. With the dagger you are already playing so that you don't get spotted for backstabs so getting close isn't as hard as with other melees, but anything classes other than light have would be scary with higher speeds

[dim onyx]

meads dual blade needs a better deflect hitbox. other than that its golden

[blissful surge]

Just give me another dash I could do some crazy shiz with 4 dashes hehe

[dark oxide]

aint nothin golden about dual blades, it is THE worst melee option in the game. Absolute dog shit

[dim onyx]

cries in riot shield

[dark oxide]

2 peas in a pod competing for most dog shit melee in the game, and Riot shield is still better

[hallow leaf]

Love how when med gets something its undertuned but heavy and light get broken stuff

[fiery nebula]

can you guys add fists for heavies so i can be the hulk

[blissful surge]

I don’t see them adding more weapons for awhile tbh

Now if heavy got a chainsaw then

Second attack would be a charge attack

[copper sinew]

season 4 probably, and since all the classes now have 2 melee weapons each I doubt they will add more next season so I would expect guns for everyone

[blissful surge]

Give medium a smg finally

Or a deagle

[dark oxide]

AHAHAHAHAHAHHA, PINGING TARGETS ON DUAL BLADES CUTS OFF YOUR DEFLECT KILLING U AHAHAHAHA

YOU ARE LITERALLY PUNISHED FOR PINGING TARGETS

[blissful surge]

Nvm no deagle ppl that are cracked with the revolver already scary

[copper sinew]

Now is probably the best time to make suggestions for new weapons since it is likely that Embark is gonna be thinking what to add next either now or once they are satisfied with the place all the new stuff is at.

Deagle seems unlikely just from the fact that the Revy exists I feel like the weapons would be too similar or or one would end up being far better than the other on the account of a bigger mag or higher damage

[blissful surge]

New sledge weapon skin sock n change

The new ak skins are meh

[dim onyx]

imo sledge needs a sight nerf to the lunge range of has. feels like i just get sucked into the person I'm swinging into

[sand monolith]

lunge should be a toggle in settings tbh

[stiff grail]

whats meta for heavy right now?

[bleak glade]

i am seeing a lot of winch/shotgun

or winch sledge/spear

personally I still think charge and slam or mesh is probably net better but the winch is fun

[stiff grail]

i was told rmb for spear is bugged right now?

[bleak glade]

I could believe it. the spin attack really only hits the people directly in front of you, which could be a bug given how big the hitbox looks

[neon escarp]

Enemies shoot you WHILE being hooked???? And during the pull?? What is the point of the hook?? Death speedrun??

[bleak glade]

there's a ton of utility and usually if it's one enemy they can't out-dps you with the stun

[stiff grail]

enemies get stunned?

[bleak glade]

briefly on immediate hook they get stunned but can shoot while traveling

[neon escarp]

I just played a game where they immediately shot me upon being hooked, stun must be glitched

[bleak glade]

there's just a ton of utility to the winch tho. it can grab player statues and even cashout boxes. winch + antigrav allows you to relocate cashout boxes which nothing else in the game really allows in the same way

but again I do think it's not as good and heavies will eventually go back to c&s or mesh. it's just new and fun right now

the release time will probably get nerfed because it's impossible to react to currently with its travel time, and it's already hard enough to hit lights with it

[neon escarp]

Fair, but absolutely useless in TA, even with a melee build. Just got lit up every time I hooked people

[bleak glade]

oh for sure, I don't really play TA. for TA I can imagine it would be hellish

[neon escarp]

It is doodoo garbage

[bleak glade]

you don't really see a lot of LMG heavies because the lewis and m60 feel pretty bad after the nerf

[stiff grail]

well TA sucks soo

[bleak glade]

so far as build frequency I have seen winch > mesh > c&s > goo, and for weapons it has been sledge > spear > shotgun > flamethrower > everything else

[neon escarp]

Yeah. I enjoy casual TA when people aren't spamming meta weapons and mines.

I haven't been able to stand ranked since the closed beta, it's kinda been painful the entire time. I guess it makes sense, you don't play ranked to have fun, you play it for internet points.

[onyx nova]

We need a skin for the 93R which is just a revolver that we fan hammer
https://youtube.com/shorts/0b9CMZLiosg?si=8VMg7YcIcNBmuVN2

[sand monolith]

Swapping to light

At least in terminal attack. In cashout it is honestly any special + sa1216

Goo gun is the worst of the 4 though

[dark oxide]

another meta that sucks off Light, so much fun

[soft ether]

light unironically needs something to suck it off, because it gets NO BI-

[restive plover]

I was medium/heavy main, now I play mostly light.

Its really fun. Love the throwing starts and the bow especially.

[dark oxide]

you cannot duel lh1

[winged void]

the most situational of the 4 i think. you gotta be creative to make it work, but goo is really really strong if you know what youre doing

[rustic wasp]

new weapons/gadgets seem a little OP and need some balancing but really like the new season

[soft ether]

just got my first cl40 no damage registration for the first time this season, it's improving but ITS STILL THERE EMBARK 🙂

[soft shale]

It is indeed way funnier than playing M/H right now, which is worrying me, because L is the least team-play oriented class, so having lobbies full of them is essentially like playing CoD...

[tawny patrol]

who thinks that just letting you run while attacking with melee weapon would improve them like 50%

[restive plover]

Heavies should have to hit their shots and be rewarded for being able to do so. LMGS shouldn’t have zero recoil like how the m60 was changed. Give them good damage, but bad recoil. Like an ACTUAL LMG. In compensation for a recoil nerf but damage buff to heavies LMGs:

Nerf the broken DPS utility. When nerfing the primaries, even good heavy players will crutch on RPG and charge more. Nerfing these broken DPS utilities will cause heavies to play more into their defensive and destructive roles, and have rewarding and stable LMGs to rely on.
Not zero damage plink machines with no recoil (current m60).

[restive plover]

Recoil really isn't a good factor for balance, as people can just learn it. People learning the pattern was why the lewis stayed dominant at every range. It should stay nerfed, but m60 should go back to the way it was since it still keeps heavy short range.

[restive plover]

LMGs shouldn’t behave like SMGs / be worse ARs. They need high recoil and decent damage around 21-23.

With a nerf to heavies broken DPS abilities this would be balanced.

[soft shale]

The M60 should perform very well at close range, with its high ROF/high ammo count. But at the cost of mid range accuracy and damage. Like the M11 of Heavies if you wish.
The Lewis could have kept its high damage, at the cost of a ROF reduction and terrible hipfire (which wasn't the case before), making it better for mid range support.

Also I am 100% for a buff to LMGs compensated by a nerf to charge and slam/RPG.

Make the Heavy class rely more on its aim and less on its abilities.

[restive plover]

Old m60 was just a worse ar. Similar damage, significantly reduced range. And it was just fine.

[restive plover]

I agree but we need it reverted back to that plus a nerf to heavies crazy damage no skill utilities

[soft shale]

Yes, I agree. This is what made me originally like the M60.

[restive plover]

They literally buffed it in S2 after no one used it in S1, to now nerf it just to have it be worse than it was in S1

[soft shale]

I did not feel that the S2 buff was significant.

The Lewis remained the most used LMG of the two no questions asked.

[restive plover]

Heavies should be rewarded for learning bad recoil patterns with decent damage lmgs.

They should be nerfed so that bad heavy players who crutch on RPG / charge can no longer do so.

[restive plover]

That was just because the lewis was stupid. Faster time to kill and better range than ars.

[restive plover]

Its damage needed a reduction for sure.

M60 would have needed an insane buff to outcompete it.

[soft shale]

Well you don't balance weapons by making another weapon even more OP. So not an insane buff.

[restive plover]

Heavy would be way more fun with good weapons and more nerfed / balanced utility

[soft shale]

The Lewis was as strong as the old FCAR with twice the ammo count. It didn't make sense. Especially with decent hipfire. It was just a no brainer.

I agree. Even the SA1216 that I've seen praised so many times feels like shit to use. I played against a Heavy who used it. Poor thing barely scratched my Medium skin while I was blowing him out of existence with my M1887.

[restive plover]

Probably a firerate nerf too, still a better fcar. Just a better post nerf fcar. Lewis should be the niche/mediocre "range heavy" option and heavy should be given a third normal weapon to sit alongside the m60 and sa1216. Couldn't hurt to buff the ks23 damage either.

[soft shale]

The KS23 felt much better at the start of S2 for whatever reason. It was difficult to land hits, but boy it felt satisfying when it did.

[restive plover]

The damage was way better, 120 if I recall correctly.

[soft shale]

Yes, the thing hit enemies like a brick. But it was demanding.

[restive plover]

If ks gets 10-25 damage buff from it's current 100(and other things on heavy are changed) I think it would be in a perfect position.

[soft shale]

Yeah. Overall I feel like the main weapons would benefit from being a bit more efficient.

At the cost of dealing less damage with gadgets and specs.

I know some people will disagree because gadgets and specs are part of The Finals identity. But it's also first and foremost a FPS. S stands for shooter. I want to be able to shoot things and it being the most satisfying part of the gameplay.

As a comparison, it feels way more satisfying to get kills with the M1887 than landing a good RPG hit.

I would like to get the same satisfaction from Heavy weapons.

[elder rain]

I am seeing all sorts of weapon customisation like a tripod on a sniper and a laser on the xp54

[hasty juniper]

i think it would add a super fun aspect to the game, with even more advanced meta s, and it could solve balancing issues or create some

[arctic compass]

Hopefully so the bow could have some time to shine

[sand monolith]

Recoil shouldn’t be a balance factor almost at all

It’s not really a downside when it’s possible to mitigate entirely

Tbh the m60 right now is great

Lewis is a niche longer ranged variant which it probably always should have been

[mossy nest]

where could you get the precise weapon stats

[crystal garnet]

Not normally one to complain but yall messed this game up with the LH1 buff

[somber ginkgo]

+1

[hallow leaf]

Yes, and the heavy LMGs are on par with med ARs now. The only reason people say they feel bad to use is because they are going against busted light weapons consistently, hell try using meds ARs against light they also feel bad to use as well

[red dove]

They should make arrows not despawn when I die

[timber sparrow]

what is the best heavy weapon right now?

[vital forge]

Sledgehammer.

[boreal laurel]

None of them 😋 JK probably M60

[vital forge]

M60 has too much damage fall off coupled with a new damage nerf that takes it from S/A tier down to maybe B tier.

[timber sparrow]

why the hell did the nerf the ks-23 it was already kind of under powered

[dim onyx]

cause fuck the ks thats why (im kidding idk why they'd nerf an already mid weapon)

[vital forge]

Patch notes only listed a buff to fire rate & no nerf. Oddly, it is the best ranged weapon for heavy.

[dim onyx]

idk why theres so much melee hate its arguably one of the best things ab the season. granted it could use some work but its a welcome addition 4 me

[remote ice]

Glitch grenade no longer works through walls

[timber sparrow]

yeah sledge is the way to go this season or ks23 in my opinion

[dreamy hare]

ks23, long range 100 dmg in close combat

[dreamy hare]

ks23 buffed, not nerfed...

[dim onyx]

what are the hitboxes on katanas. i hold lt and nothing

[hallow leaf]

Wdym

[dim onyx]

how does the deflect proc happen, is it random or do ubhave to hit the literal bullet

[hallow leaf]

Are you aiming at the person shooting you? Because you have to actually aim to hit them

It's not just a block and it immediately does damage you have to have your crosshair on them as well

[dim onyx]

well duh im aiming, ill be legit standing right in front of them and they still beam me

[hallow leaf]

And you still take 50% of the damage

[dreamy hare]

if he shoots into ur legs, you done... deflection will no work

[novel oar]

they need to buff the new melee weapons to put them in line with the other melee weapons in the way of if you use them right they are deadly

[hallow leaf]

They honestly need to buff it

[dreamy hare]

agree

[hallow leaf]

It should cover your whole front not just your chest

If I'm still going to take 1/2 the damage it better block my whole body

[dim onyx]

ok thats probably why it feels like it does nothing is bc they shoot my legs. i didnt know it worked a lil bit like riot shield

[dreamy hare]

funny thing, yesterday i played and blocked a lot of enemies bullets (they was played on pc), but in last match i was vs gamepad players, and i just cant deflect them... with their crazy "aim" they just randomly shooting into legs and other places but not into head or chest....

[novel oar]

dual blades also need a damage buff as in a 1v1 literally any other melee weapon wins

[dreamy hare]

again, yesterday i just didnt deflected m11 because he shooting randomly.... or it was a bug, someone told me that because of network code

idk, but devs need to chek this stuff

[hallow leaf]

Devs- let's get med one of the worst melee, also lets give light a Thanos snap(LH1 buff) and if the med do want to run from heavy let's give heavy a claw so they cant do that anymore because fuck medium

[dreamy hare]

but its sooo nicee when light shoot you with xp45 or lh1 and you deflect it into him, and see how he loss more than 50% hp

🍆

[dim onyx]

currently playing ranked and we're on match point and the 4 lights on my team all switched lh1 lol

[hallow leaf]

Yes, RN for the combo it's 100-120-70 (50x2-60x2-70) they should buff it to 120-130-100

[dreamy hare]

everyone now playing ta lights with lh1, or heavy with rpg....

[boreal laurel]

Yes but not exactly worth the trouble of dying 5 times in a row because practically everything beats your weapon
IDK…I really want to like DB but riot shield is just way, way better

So nowadays I play mostly sword 😉 (and riot shield)

[hallow leaf]

Yeah, I feel that. The worst part is that even if you get the full combo off with the dual blades it doesn't do 350 damage so you can't kill a heavy

[dreamy hare]

still i want to master DB... its looks cool

[hallow leaf]

It needs to do 350 damage with the full combo to even be viable and the hotbox for the deflect needs to be larger

[boreal laurel]

Honestly what DB (or rather medium) needs is more mobility. There’s a reason that charge+sledge and sword+dash are so dominant. Riot shield at least lets you get close without dying. DB, not so much

[dreamy hare]

and last attack so annoying, and also what i hate, that animation when you put them out or switch them back.... its feels like he doing that too long

[hallow leaf]

I think they need a movement speed bomb like the light invis bomb to med

And no don't give a movement speed gadgets to light, they already have enough speed as it is. If light got a movement speed bomb all med melee would be useless

[dreamy hare]

they need to add "BONK Atomic punch" like in tf2 for medium, that gives him more speed and high jumps for few seconds

[restive plover]

Ospuze cans skins for throwing knives

[boreal laurel]

They totally do!

[slender ginkgo]

Add a gadget for medium that explodes into a mist when thrown that immediately triggers health regeneration. Good for playing strategically and being able to still support your team if you're not running the healing beam.

[boreal laurel]

Or a stim shot, or SOMETHING…

[hallow leaf]

Yeah, I have seen people say to give light a movement speed gadget, which is wild considering they already have the fastest movement speed. Pair their speed with dash or grapple you can't catch them, so giving them any sort of movement speed gadget would make medium melee absolutely useless

And It would make more sense for med to get a movement speed bomb that affects the whole party (friendly only) since they already have bounce and zip which also benefits everyone (friendly and enemies)

[dreamy hare]

wall running with dual blades will be so siiiiick

[burnt gyro]

i need to know what are some good third party crosshairs that wont get u banned

[dreamy hare]

make a dot in game and be happy

[burnt gyro]

huh

[soft ether]

just 4 light mains chilling 400m away on 10 cranes because they're not G-

[vale musk]

There is better way with 120dmg more in the same time frame

You can easly one combo heavies

[hallow leaf]

Yeah, but needing to do ma melee hit just feels goofy and bad

[vale musk]

It kills sooo

[hallow leaf]

I didn't say it didn't, just stating that you shouldn't have to do that on an already limited class

[vale musk]

True

Trades with H are easier with dash sword than dblades, even when I get to jump them

[hallow leaf]

You don't have the ability to dash or yoink them to you so needing to also melee on top of that just feels bad

[dreamy hare]

yeah, and heavy will stand like statue on one place and dont move at all

[vale musk]

Well, you can move just as good with this combo

Its not limiting your movement and it still overkills them so you can miss one swing IIRC

[restive plover]

Buff wrecking ball nerf lh1

[foggy totem]

Hello

[thorny lantern]

Helo

[restive plover]

Revert lmgs, nerf heavy utility

[hallow leaf]

The LMGs are fine they have around the same ttk as the med ARs

[restive plover]

Recoil patterns for them make no sense at all

M60 shouldn’t be super low damage with zero recoil

[devout saddle]

They need to switch the sword and dual blades around, cause medium with DB doesnt have a gap closer, idk it just makes more sense to me that the light should have the Dual Blades because of their movement and their ability to close gaps and the medium with the the sword (a slightly longer reach melee + the right click charge)

[hot anchor]

Sharing my loadout of powershift
the mocap is very good tool to give u assist pts (Good for having many xp :>, and having beautiful sound when u place them on platform as people keep coming)
and the flamethrower is very good with hook, as long as u grab someone they a very less likely to survive
barricade for blocking incoming attacks and frag for getting random kill by throwing to the platform

Even tho it cannot deal with long range well
u cann insta place ur barricade , wont lose

[hallow leaf]

Dual blades are fine on med, all it needs it a little lunge on its basic attacks and a damage buff

[solemn lake]

I wish the mp11 would get a hipfire buff I see no reason to ever use it over the xp54

[sacred cypress]

Allow heavy players to throw their spears. But not unlimited like the throwing knives. Instead when u throw it once u have to wait for it to come back to ur hand kinda like Thors hammer. It's literally a SPEAR. And having to wait for it to come back even to engage in close range battle prevents it from being overpowered but viable longer distances. Maybe allow players to aim and throw it through by toggling on and off the aiming mode.

[dreamy hare]

M11 got better hip fire than xp54...

[fickle charm]

Bow is sick pls don't nerf. I can't tryhard harder than I already am

[swift cradle]

Lh1 is god tier lmfaooo

[pine grail]

So are they gonna patch soon

the swords and spear are shite

[hallow leaf]

I hope so, I am losing what little will to live I have left with this LH1 simular

[pine grail]

exactly my thoughts

[carmine kite]

I hope too maybe they bring out a patch before twitch rivals otherwise thats just gonna be a simple massacre

[fleet veldt]

Day 1 to the old competitive

[smoky jackal]

?

[dreamy hare]

in your wet dreams 😂

[silk totem]

throwing knife is broken

[vale musk]

The only issue with swords is just how incosistent deflect is due to ping issues of servers

[pine grail]

Nah

The swings individually don’t do enough and the deflect blocks to little and reflects to little

[placid thunder]

yeh the m60 feels great rn

[vale musk]

You can one combo heavies, faster than L sword, thats enough dmg

Not counting phantom atrikes for sword ofc

[pine grail]

I don’t think you understand how impractical that is

You will never land that many on a player

if you could do that damage normally itd be ok

[vale musk]

I consistently do this in WT

Not like its complicated, it already overkills and you can also still do a qm followup

[gusty sedge]

Daily buff the dual swords post. This weapons is so insanely fun to play and satisfying to get kills but it is very hard to to use. Deflect should be 100% of damage. Allow for block to cancel the swing animation. And make the last hit of the combo do more damage. You should be rewarded for hitting combos

[vale musk]

It deflects 100% back, but u take 50% btw

[reef gull]

how does the spear m2 hitbox "work?" i just activated it mid-air, stood right behind somebody on level ground, and hit NOTHING
does the hitbox stay at the position you activated it at or something?

[hallow leaf]

It moves with the spear

[midnight fiber]

whats the timing on a perfect bow charge ?

[worthy hare]

there is a sound wen its fully charged hear out for that

[dreamy hare]

And also on arrow you can see some light for half second

[worthy hare]

yea

[gusty sedge]

Oh yeah I knew that I meant it should block 100% of the damage. I feel like the deflect is more difficult to do than the riot shield so I shouldn't be penalized for that imo. Give the last combo hit more damage and I feel.thats a good start

[plain wasp]

It definitely shouldn't block 100% because that would be kinda op, but if they increase the block range to your knees and made it block 65-80% of damage it would be a lot better

[gusty sedge]

I'm curious as to how that's OP If The riot shield blocks 100% of the damage.

[plain wasp]

The riot shield doesn't deflect bullets

[gusty sedge]

You have to have pretty dead on tracking to hit the deflects with the swords. Most of the deflected bullets miss unless you are withing 5-7m or less in my experience. 100% deflect would give some area control as well because enemies can't push as easy.

[plain wasp]

The problem is that with the riot shield they can just load you with bullets and neither person takes damage, but if you get shot and just hurt them it's going to feel super unfun to play against

[lost dagger]

buff invis cloak

#makecloakgreatagain

[gusty sedge]

Well honestly you can just stop shooting and then neither person is taking damage also. That's where i think the area denial power could come in.

Personally I think it would be hilarious and fun to have to fear the sword guy if he gets too close. I understand how that could be unfun for some

[plain wasp]

But the problem is still, how do you counter someone that you can't shoot at

[viscid orchid]

I love the idea of throwing knives. I love the idea of bringing knives to a gun fight. I hate that they have become oppressively good

[gusty sedge]

Well since the block only covers the torso I think shooting down low is an immediate counter. Also flame thrower would hard counter no matter what. Grenades too.

[plain wasp]

I would rather have the dual blades just be more reliable at deflecting partial damage by expanding the deflect area

[gusty sedge]

I hear you but that just doesn't solve the main issue with the weapons which is its ability to actually get kills quickly enough.

[plain wasp]

And also increasing accuracy for a bigger area of denial

[gusty sedge]

Definitely accuracy buff would be nice start.

[plain wasp]

It should block closer to 75% damage instead of only 50% and also have a bigger deflect area

But 100% I think would be too much if also buffing other aspects of the weapon

And also as an extra buff deflect extra damage, like 125% or so

[gusty sedge]

Hhmm I just don't know if i could agree with that. They are vastly underpowered right now. It would take alot to make them oppressive. But I do appreciate the discussion 👊

[gusty sedge]

Forgot to reply in above message

[plain wasp]

Could probably make the attacks a little faster too

[gusty sedge]

Honestly I'd settle for that over the damage buff

[plain wasp]

Balancing melee on classes other than light is weird because light just moves faster and if they just run you can't ever catch up

[gusty sedge]

I know that's the truth. Heavy got the winch claw. Which from what I can tell from my friends made the sledge way more viable.
Maybe medium just needs some kind of specialization that compliments melee and the swords would feel better.

[plain wasp]

You do get jump pad right now but than can only help so much, healing beam can be useful if you're running melee with another person because one can block while being healed to deflect lots of damage

[patent cliff]

how far can u see with thermal?

[plain wasp]

Not far enough, like 50 m or smth

[sharp portal]

what heavy loadout should i use

[lavish geode]

my personal favorite is charge and slam, Lewis/m60, rpg, and either barricade or pyro

[tame comet]

No

[grizzled ore]

you're joking right

[eager wasp]

i mean maybe a TEENY tiny buff to damage like a single point up but i don't think it needs a buff

no more then that tho

[compact nexus]

Buff dagger's base damage to 60 (Currently 50) to give it a better shot against light players

Lights are already extremely hard to backstab due to being the same speed as you and using a dash is loud and blows your cover (if your footsteps didnt already)

Increasing the damage to 60 allows you to stab melee slash or slash slash melee a light to get the kill, which is a pretty noticeable improvement to slash slash slash or stab slash slash while also not making much of an impact on the weapon for medium and heavies (which are easier to backstab and therefore should require it to be able to get a kill)

[final terrace]

love the new gadgets

[gritty swallow]

Maybe a speed stim or something for medium ? A few seconds speed boost

[compact nexus]

I think melees can work with mediums but the melee itself needs to have some sort of lunge attack like the sword instead of blocking

[lone rose]

as a console player anyone got tips for throwing knives? I've been consistently getting a 1.0 KD

[kindred scroll]

Any tips or tricks with the bow on light? Would love to hear others opinions on it and how they use it and what they use it with. Right now I use dash, bow, invis bomb, thermite launcher, and gas. What does everyone else use?

[thin ermine]

Im mastering it and I find very useful using dash, invis bomb, stun gun and sonar. I would say is the best build there is for bow

[kindred scroll]

Does the bow work good with the stun gun? 🧐 is there any major delay when shooting someone with stun and pulling your bow back out?

[main axle]

the right click of the double swords should have a cooldown

Doble swords = 🤢🤮

[timber sparrow]

double swords just need a buff

[thin ermine]

You wanna be sneaky so whenever you have good cover and your targets is not directly looking at you you can pull out the stun gun and that will guarantee you at least 2 shots, you want to make them predictable so it’s easier to land your shots and the stun gun is perfect for that since they literally can’t move, especially with the new buffs it received that will keep other lights with dash at your mercy

[kindred scroll]

Very nice. I’ll try that out for sure

[kindred scroll]

Much obliged

[main axle]

😂😂😂

[autumn dirge]

since when did they buff my baby? Light shotgun can now two shot heavies again

[supple elbow]

😂

[inner venture]

Anyone got any fun builds with the new dual swords? 👀😈

[autumn dirge]

a support building healer is probably best

[inner venture]

@autumn dirge I'm rocking both turret atm but I definitely use the pads to bring ppl back so kinda a support role still

[autumn dirge]

I like the healbeam becuase at range I can heal while my teammates shoot and at close range I attack but turret is also good

[wary gulch]

Dual blades needs a buff/rework. I posted my thoughts on the Steam forums. But for now, I run turret, pad, gas mine, explosive mine.

[autumn dirge]

dualblades is ok from what ive seen. Only used it once though

much better than riot shiled

[wary gulch]

Needs a gap closer at the very least, imo

[inner venture]

Yeah I agree I kinda felt like it might just take awhile to get better with them also,legit got to pretend you're a samurai or something lol deflecting bullets is pretty fun

[wary gulch]

Should I post my rework idea here? See what you guys think?

[mortal crystal]

they should buff the sa12

i miss it

[supple elbow]

#reworkLH1

[wild nexus]

did they buff dash? thats all i see now and its annoying as hell

[restive plover]

No, they just made the other two specializations not worth taking.

[compact nexus]

No grapple has never been a meta choice and cloak can just be replaced with vanish bomb in most scenarios so everyone chooses dash

I would love for grapple to get a second charge to push it into the meta tho grapple is super fun

[wild nexus]

so then dash always needed a higher cooldown or less charges?

[compact nexus]

No dash is fine its just the strongest light special rn

[autumn dirge]

they just need to buff grapply and cloak

[compact nexus]

I would prefer if cloak stayed kinda meh tbh

[autumn dirge]

I liked the way light was before, decent DPS but really good gadgets.
its either that or really good DPS and meh gadgets. The former allows for more skil;l expression and fun

People complained about the DPS buff on the knives but you kinda have to do that when you nerf all his gadgets

[uncut crystal]

As a diamond solo player, when i've read the patch notes, i was worried about the CL nerfs, Now, after some time, i have to express my dissatisfaction with this decision.
The grenade launcher got more accessible (and require less skill) now that you don't need skill to destroy the APS turrets, just to be nerfed down to the current state. Up untill now, it was a niche weapon, with one of the worst TTK for medium in a clear 1 v 1 situation. 110 damage was barely enough to combat with players, considering the HHM meta in cashout rankeds. But after the nerf, 93 damage feels atrocious. Not even 100 to one shot bodyshot damaged people in TA.
In my opinion, grenade launcher doesn't need more pampering,barely useful buffs like 0,75X self damage modifier or next-to-nothing firerate, but raise damage to 120 or revert back to 110 and add one more grenade slot, making it a 5 mag.

[sterile rover]

ta sucks

[inner robin]

bow is busted and sucks to fight as all classes

[broken tinsel]

I made a weapon tierlist based on my experience. (I don't play TA)

[wild nexus]

any reason why the gravity cube has no throwing range? it drops faster than the stock market in 1987

[broken tinsel]

but there's a slowmode so i can't send it 😦

also i don't have the rank so i gotta be more active

but lh1 needs nerfs all i gotta say

[molten mulch]

Yeah I feel the body damage just needs a bit of a tweak

[inner robin]

yeah does not help the hitboxs are wonky

[broken tinsel]

yeah, like 120 is too much tbh

[molten mulch]

This is a most cause I played on light yesterday and getting 2 tapped to body wasn’t fun

[broken tinsel]

either play dashes to make it somehow fair or perish

[molten mulch]

Barely 😭 dash feels a bit underwhelming cause I see allot of cloak shotty plays on top of a dash bow load out

[vital forge]

The rpg is 140 damage...the bow is better...that is crazy

[molten mulch]

The fact a bow is doing more then a rpg is making me sad 😭 cause headshot damage is crazy

[hardy dust]

Bow isnt close to op?

[molten mulch]

My twin plays heavy to see him get dropped in 2 head shots is terrifying

[molten mulch]

Only draw back I feel is fact you can’t cancel the draws but I feel if they tweak damaged a little bit like make body damage lower and canceling draws I’d be okay with it

[hardy dust]

You can qm to cancel them

[molten mulch]

Ah didn’t know 😭

[vital forge]

I feel like it's a direct result of so many people screaming from the mountain tops to Nerf, heavy & buff light. Well, now lights have multiple options to erase Heavies faster than they can react.

[broken tinsel]

just use a dagger fam

works for me at least

[molten mulch]

I understand that but I feel the bow is a bit much is all

[molten mulch]

What abilities you run?

[hardy dust]

TK wasnt even op and people complained about it and now people complain about bow, which is even weaker

[broken tinsel]

Cloak or Dashes

[wild nexus]

why did they even buff the knives
it takes practically no effort to kill anyone with them anymore

[broken tinsel]

true, it used to be a difficult but fun weapon

[molten mulch]

Think backstabs count on the side of them which is crazy

[broken tinsel]

like LH1

[vital forge]

The bow is a bit much, backstabbing from almost any direction is a bit much, erasing heavies with the double barrel is a bit much, throwing knives are a bit much,the lh1 is a bit much...

[wild nexus]

the throwing kind i mean

[hardy dust]

Lh1 was the best light weapon and they made it better

Nerf that and light is relatively balanced

[molten mulch]

Nah I’m okay with shot gun as it is cause I do feel like it’s not much to 2 shot anyone

[molten mulch]

Only complaint I have is bow body damage 😭

[molten mulch]

4 shots medium 7 shots heavy and 2 shots light

[broken tinsel]

Shotgun is high risk high reward so i don't see why it is/was op

[vital forge]

I've got multiple clips of Me backpaddling & keeping them in front of me and I get back stabbed from five foot away in front of me

[molten mulch]

😭 not gonna cap I’d break my keyboard

[broken tinsel]

spy tf2 matador trickstab moment

[hardy dust]

? It does 52/104 dmg.
2/3 shot L, 3/5 shot M, 4/7 shot H

[odd steppe]

Katanas go crazy

[novel oar]

womp womp bow is pretty balanced as it is

[hardy dust]

Bow is fine, its basically a sniper sidegrade

[novel oar]

i think bow should do 125 instead of 120

[vital forge]

The opportunity to deal over six thousand damage per minute doesn't really seem that great.

[hardy dust]

It has one of the lowest dps

[broken tinsel]

I say that bow should have accuracy penalty for uncharged shots

[hardy dust]

Bow should have better hitreg and that's it

[broken tinsel]

yeah

[vital forge]

That's only because it takes a Full second to draw. engagements are longer than one second

What's sixty times a hundred and twenty?

[hardy dust]

So what's your point about 6k dmg per minute

[vital forge]

My point is no class should have unlimited rpg level damage with no cool down

Hell, the heavies best range weapon is a shotgun

[novel oar]

bow belongs to lights with the least amount of health a encounter won las a minute

[hardy dust]

Rpg is good cuz its aoe and super easy to hit

140 is a great opener to use a gun to finish people off

[molten mulch]

Yeah

[hardy dust]

Bow actually needs skill, missing shots is super punishing, especially on light

[vital forge]

There's more than one people

[molten mulch]

Womp womp is crazy

[hardy dust]

It does aoe and you have 3 people on your team too

[vital forge]

It's sad trombone

[molten mulch]

Ik it’s crazy he said it to me while I was making a take on the bow 😭

[broken tinsel]

Bow is still a bit too good (maybe it's just a hitbox fault like in tf2)
Take a sniper rifle for example, 6 shots (therefore a need to reload often) that have a something around a second in between them, low acc on no scopes (if moving)
while bow just has a recharge time and good acc while moving
The sniper rifle is just a weaker in most situations

[wild nexus]

projectile speed is far too high
it might as well just be a gun

[novel oar]

you said the body shot is to much even though its really hard to hit

[hardy dust]

Hipfire while crouched is decent but you can just quickscope. It has better dmg and more range. The only drawback is it doesnt have the bow's moving accuracy and a slightly slower rate of fire. The reload isnt that bad in 95% of scenarios

[molten mulch]

💀 it’s not that hard to hit anyone with it just depends on the player most sweaty light mains been sitting back and just picking people off with bow

[novel oar]

werent you complaining about the damage?

[vital forge]

At range I think there's some type of grace area where it just gives you hits. Half of the shots I take with the bow 20+meters are not accurate but they hit.

[hardy dust]

Bow and sniprr are abt equal

[true dragon]

Soo when are they nerfing the snipers?

[novel oar]

real

[molten mulch]

I’m complaining saying it’s to much 😭 when I play medium im basically extremely low health heavy a large chunk is gone after one tap

[novel oar]

i play light so when i get hit im a 1 tap but its because someone is skillful enough to hit that shot

[molten mulch]

It’s just my opinion I might be over thinking it cause i know lights definitely deserve something after being a bit under powered

[novel oar]

and what do you mean when you play medium your on low health you would not even be below half health

[broken tinsel]

tbh bow is not that hard to hit fam

[molten mulch]

💀 how does 120 to the body I’m left with 130 isn’t that basically half

[broken tinsel]

treat it like a hit scan to most interractions and it'll click

[vital forge]

He was calling medium a low health heavy even though it's faster than heavy and has mobility

[molten mulch]

I understand

[novel oar]

oh mb i misunderstood

[molten mulch]

Nah I explained stupidly

[novel oar]

its fine

[empty apex]

Knives still kinda broken against mediums and heavies. It is so easy to melt them down and harder for them to dodge. Plus having zero CD allows lights to win a war of attrition, especially in TA

[versed siren]

Throwing Knife Dagger

[restive plover]

Recurve Bow is satisfying when you're able to hit lol.

[wild nexus]

if you're right in someone's face while using throwing knives they should just fall harmlessly like when you try to shoot a red canister point blank

[vestal sage]

Heavy players need a mobility gadget to not need a medium player all the time

[wanton cosmos]

nah

[vestal sage]

Think about the casual players bro. Nobody like to solo queue heavy with light teammates. It’s just straight up boring when you take forever to walk

[white thistle]

hook is a bit much, rpg is a bit much

[sterile rover]

bow op

[vital forge]

Nah, they just need to be able to do what people pick them for. dealing/taking damage & fortifying. They're not too great at any of those things after the weekly nerfs.

Excluding sledge hammer... It's still good for now

[broken tinsel]

Well, light is underpowered so they nerf heavy's kit constantly

I'm not saying it's good

[vital forge]

Was underpowered

[broken tinsel]

I believe that light should be reworked in general.
The weapons for the most part are ok (fuck the LH1 tho)
Light's role is just anti-team in a team game

that is why i love gateways since it benefits the team more

[broken tinsel]

maybe not the whole build but the role in the team

[vital forge]

Lh1 busted, throwing knives busted, frontstab dagger busted,double barrel busted, bow&m11 are pushing it & with the specializations a team of good lights are overwhelming to any class

[broken tinsel]

well light is supposed to be the glass cannon so no wonder. Although some weapons are in fact bullshit

What i mean is that light should have more team utility.

[vital forge]

They have always been a glass cannon. I think the big issue was a lot of light players just try to directly challenge and get erased

[hazy talon]

speaking of knives busted. just had a player constantly nailing me with them, and my teammates just kept reviving me. only for knives to get me again. like… hmm.

[broken tinsel]

Well light is not a front-liner and many people forget that. They are supposed to be the one that starts the ambush while their team follows.

[hazy talon]

i mean yes. but also no one plays like that unless they’re coordinated, which most players in casual aren’t. so many lights charge in and either get toast or start a massacre 🙄

[broken tinsel]

which makes embark buff LH1 turning it into a ray gun while the heavy gets bitch slapped with another balancing patch

[hazy talon]

life is good at the finals

[broken tinsel]

In other words. Some players are salty cuz they can't play Rambo/Doom Slayer in a team based game. That concludes my ted talk. off kill myse-

[vital forge]

Died to frontstab 6 times that match... I'm confused

Like five foot above and in front of the light doesn't stop backstab from working

[broken tinsel]

ah you see, the light hit your frontal weak point, balls

for real tho it's like spy tf2 by this point

[vital forge]

rpg should one tap lights. Not aoe but direct. If they did that and gave the damage output back to lmg's They could leave most of the lights kit broken But the fat slow heavies could fight back consistently.

[hallow leaf]

what about med

[vital forge]

Medium has reliable weapons for all ranges.

Heavy's best ranged weapon is a shotgun

[sand monolith]

Just nerf the lh1 and light is fine (in cashout)

The other light weapons are completely okay really

They should nerf rpg heavily and give some power back to the LMGs

[vital forge]

Nerf it for the fourth time?

bow is already better than the R. P. G

[sand monolith]

Yes. The gadget that is still an absolute must pick and is often a deciding factor in teamfights should be nerfed

The bow is a primary weapon it’s not really comparable. It’s also a completely average weapon

[vital forge]

The opportunity to deal 120 damage with every shot is not average

R p g needs buff

[sand monolith]

It averages out with draw time. The ttk is nothing special

[boreal elm]

The RPG used to one tap Lights and there’s a reason it doesn’t anymore. In general the RPG has been H’s best gadget for 3 seasons straight, it definitely does not need buffs.

Light definitely needs some nerfs but that’s not the same thing as Heavy buffs

[sand monolith]

Heavy buffs also negatively impact medium. Light nerfs help medium and heavy

I think the m60 was hit a little too hard

But other than that the class doesn’t need any buffs

[boreal elm]

I think both LMGs could stand for some buffs if you really wanted to buff Heavy. Lewis’ new recoil pattern is. . . something, and I wouldn’t mind seeing that get toned down.

M60 could use a touch more damage but besides that I think the class is fine

[sand monolith]

Lewis gun needs to be reworked to not be a better m60 when you ignore the recoil. It should be better at range and worse up close. And a little worse overall because heavy shouldn’t have great ranged options

And generally recoil should be easier on all weapons. It doesn’t add much to the game and there’s plenty of ways to put skill enemies. This isn’t cs where everyone moves at 2 inches an hour so idk why some guns kick like a mule

[vital forge]

Yes, I know I have 800 hours in game.I said a DIRECT hit, It did not feel fair to players with AOE damage one tapping. At that time, light did not have an arsenal of weapons that feel like being one tapped. It's a must have because it is the only item in the entire arsenal to reliably deal damage. Sometimes, the best way to balance things are with buffs, not by nerfing everything else.

[vague monolith]

yo so like unironically if you focus lights (like ignore the objective, and ignore mediums and heavies) you win more games

[sand monolith]

Sometimes the best way is buffs yes. Like with the health regen in season 3. Instead of making Heavy regen slower to make it symmetrical with light. They buffed mediums regen as well so all the classes still feel good to play. Buffing rpg to 1 shot lights will not make all the classes feel good to play. Instant kills should be reduced as much as possible

[boreal elm]

I don’t think it’s healthy to balance in the “yeah let’s just let X or Y be overtuned, buuuut you can one shot them so it’s fair!”. That always has secondary knock-on effects and in general is still not fun for anyone involved, both the Light or the enemy Heavy.

Again, you wouldn’t feel the need to want to one shot Light if Light didn’t have a weapon that could outDPS you at any range with minimal effort, which is why you’d nerf LH1 and leave everything else alone. Without LH1 being as overtuned as it is suddenly you can reliably deal damage to Light because it suddenly doesn’t deal twice your damage at any range.

[hallow leaf]

Heavy LMGs don't need any buffs at all they have around the same ttk as med ARs but they also have 100 more health, if it's that bad which it isn't just buff the recoil that's it

The only reason they might feel bad to use right now is because your going against the broken ass LH1 meta

[vital forge]

Instant kills should be reduced as much as possible yet light one taps with multiple options

[hallow leaf]

And RPG 100% needs a nerf, I say knock it down to at least 100 damage

[vague monolith]

I think if light is your most played class this season it should be like a VAC ban on your profile

[vital forge]

Yeah, let's make it less than cl40

[hallow leaf]

Heavy also has a gl I don't see the point of comparing a gadget that is basically easy kills to a weapon

Even if it was 100 damage that is still a free 100 damage opener for heavy

[spark snow]

Bro has never heard of combos

[hallow leaf]

And honestly if they won't nerf the fucking RPG they need to remove it from a gadget and make it a heavy spec

[vague monolith]

I am 3 for 3 after hard focusing lights this shit is a problem

[vital forge]

Your points would make more sense if there was only one fight. If That's how you expect it to be played, What are they supposed to do for the rest of the enemies?

[boreal elm]

Yeah nobody’s saying Light isn’t problematic, I think our point is that nerfing Light is the solution, not buffing Heavy for no discernible reason

[hallow leaf]

Shoot them with your main weapon....

[vague monolith]

why hasn't there been a hotfix for the obvious problem weapon

the fix is less damage that is the easiest value to change

[vital forge]

We've been screaming to buff light forever. We finally get a decent light and immediately want it nerfed.

[vague monolith]

it's not decent it's oppressive

[sand monolith]

Lh1 and sonar need a nerf that’s really it. I’d be down for an entire light redesign but yes the point of the class right now is to do a lot of damage very quickly. Which is another reason why other classes should not

[hallow leaf]

"decent" it's busted

[spark snow]

Worst takes from a main of the worst class 🥱
Bow is the easiest counter known to man. Why does everyone have to scream when a good weapon is introduced

[hallow leaf]

I didn't say a thing about bow you victim

[sand monolith]

Yeah the bow is completely fine I have no idea why anyone thinks it’s op besides maybes because they get frustrated due to burst damage

[boreal elm]

It’s not just decent, Light is currently oppressive. And every class screams for their class to be buffed, it doesn’t mean we should just let them be overtuned

[spark snow]

lol ur solution is "make RPG a spec" while still having 100 dmg that tells me everything i need to know about ur other ideas

[sand monolith]

The LH1 and sonar nades are stupid though

[hallow leaf]

No I said if they weren't going to nerf it make it a spec, you would have known that if you bothered to read

[spark snow]

Ok that's true asf. Sonar is actually the most oppressive gadget since the range buff

[hallow leaf]

Sorry the education system failed you

[sand monolith]

One thing I loved about light was that there weren’t any must pick gadgets like defib for medium and rpg for heavy. Now it sucks cause sonar is a must pick and I’ve practically lost a gadget slot that I can customize

[spark snow]

Tbh if it went back to being a medium gadget that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world

[hasty hound]

sonar is fucking insane right now. i don't know if there's some kind of bizarre bug or what but i basically have wallhacks every other game

[vague monolith]

dude if the rpg was a spec you would have to buff it to make it worth a shit, which would make it more annoying

[hasty hound]

if you're playing a 5v5 mode it's basically a given that everyone can see each other

[spark snow]

Exactly. And in the grand scheme of things it might actually make things more cancerous, because it would open up that last gadget slot for an ultra-aids loadout

[vague monolith]

RPG is just good by design. You can dodge the rpg fairly consistantly. I play heavy yes your medium is fast enough to get out of the way

[sand monolith]

Don’t allow rpg to be reloaded until the player has committed to firing it. And the lower its damage to 100 and it’s completely fine honestly

[vital forge]

I don't feel like bow is that big of an issue in game. It can be really surprising to silently get hit with what feels like an rpg though...when you realize what took all that health away you also realize there is an unlimited amount of them flying at you with no cool down. That is when people come running here to beech.

[hasty hound]

i wouldnt call the bow op but it sure is frustrating

[spark snow]

I would appreciate if they

A: Made the goo blobs from a goo gun slightly bigger, and have less health (200)
B: Reworked RPG
C: Reworked Lewis (Again... Why tf does a .303 do less damage than a 7.62)
D: Fixed bow and sonar

[sand monolith]

It’s a learning curve for sure. But you can strafe the bow very easily

[spark snow]

It's slightly oppressive in the current meta, but that's because the good weapons for mid and heavy have been nerfed into the ground. Meanwhile, Light gets another LH1 buff that legit noone asked for.

[sand monolith]

For TA it’s great. In cashout it’s just decent. And yeah the LH1 needs to be nerfed into the ground

[hallow leaf]

The only thing bow really needs is more drop from range

[spark snow]

If they're going to give it this much damage, then they should bring back the old recoil. The fire rate buff ISN'T enough when it's a 3 tap now even to mediums if headshots.
Too easy for new players to use

If we want to talk about openers, LH1 headshot combo is by far the meta. Over Sniper, over Bow, with the right gadgets

[vital forge]

I think spawns need worked on too😅😅😅

[tranquil marsh]

What are everyone's opinions on the dual blades?

[dreamy hare]

very good

[main pike]

I hate that

[vital forge]

I couldn't help but laugh at that one😂

[hallow leaf]

Mid, they could use a buff

[main pike]

I don’t like that

[strange roost]

Needs a buff, more damage sent back to enemies

[tranquil marsh]

is the dmg relfected back by the dual blades a percentage of the original dmg?

[misty axle]

In my very quick testing, it was 100% damage back, and ~25% damage bleedthroough to yourself.

[loud merlin]

absolutely fine
no buffs or nerfs needed

apart from the APS turret nerf
i never had any problems with any buffs or nerfs tbh

[misty axle]

I feel like limiting its shots was necessary in a gamemode like cashout, but I'd've given some extra range for more reliability? And maybe 1 more shot to absorb

[loud merlin]

hmm I'm kinda okay with that too
cause with the current state it is rn
i can NOT counter the cl40 spammers

[misty axle]

May I introduce myself?

[loud merlin]

you are the bane of my existence

[misty axle]

Meanwhile, on the opposite side of the equation, you can instantly shot me down to nothing by placing it under your feet. With no warm up delay.

[misty axle]

CL-40 is in a super rough spot after the nerf this season.

[loud merlin]

not anymore tho

[misty axle]

I mean, you can still instantly negate almost a whole magazine from me.

Which lets you just sit still and gun me down while I try to aim for the edge of the radius while trying not to get shot by you.

[loud merlin]

i think the cl40 is a fine weapon
i used it and it felt good
the self damage splash was pretty reasonable
i won't say it's the best but it's pretty good
fun to use gun

[misty axle]

Congrats on yellow, btw @loud merlin

[misty axle]

In the current state, the CL-40 is much below average and struggles against anything but another medium.

[loud merlin]

easier said that done
also consider the fact that i absolutely suck in aiming so I'm already as good as dead

[loud merlin]

i have absolutely no idea how roles work here but thanks

[loud merlin]

oh come on
invis lights shit their pants if they just once get spotted
idk about heavies tho

[misty axle]

For some perspective:
You need to land 4 direct hits to kill a Heavy - one splash and they live.
You only have four shots.
Imagine if you had to land a full mag of FCAR headshots to kill and a single bodyshot would require a reload.

Imagine trying to hit a dashing Light with projectiles with travel delay.
You need 3 close splashes, or 1 direct hit + close splash.
Again, they can basically teleport and you have a weapon with travel time.

[loud merlin]

if they bring the normal APS back I'll be so happy
the only thing the og APS needed was to not track projectiles THROUGH THE WALLS but it served it's purpose
it didn't needed to kill itself just because it's doing it's thing
if the projectiles killed it then what's the point
thats what it is made to counter