retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[quick owl]

But after they are done in Thavnair and go back to Sharlyan, presumably he teleports back like normal with no assistance because they can't wait for him to take the long way home.

Except he can't do that without assistance...

https://tenor.com/view/picard-face-palm-ugh-startrek-gif-11523020

Well I guess they're just gonna choose to ignore that just like the language barrier arbitrarily not applying to people who don't have the Echo. <_<

[quick owl]

Okay, so he says he returned by way of the same aetheryte... How tho? They don't have hte same facilities over in Thavnair.

[mental tangle]

Can you guis tell me the 3 best healers curently and the 3 best tanks

[trail yarrow]

wait, did they leave him in that field

that's kinda cruel 😄

that post EW fight credit music is kinda ew?

[elder marsh]

id fucking kill to experience EW blind again

[pulsar current]

Not PLD and not WHM

There’s only 4 tanks and healers lmao

[gaunt star]

PLD is busted this Expac, for healers WHM is still braindead ez

SGE im waiting for more data

SCH is SCH and AST feels like wet paper heals in dungeons

Pre 84

[trail yarrow]

sage pretty much allows me to get my team 0 damage during stack so there is that
😄

[cloud swan]

||guys what if we get repo-men'd and in 6.1 we just wake up at lvl 17 inside Sastasha, just the first pull we hit our heads very hard||

[tranquil gorge]

How do you expect the next Hildibrand quest line to start?

[novel furnace]

Spectacularly

[wind bough]

He uses the same mechanism going back

It’s two-way

[quick owl]

But they don't have the same facilities in Thavnair.

[wind bough]

They have the same aetheryte dude

So yes

They do

That is the facility

The two are linked

[trail yarrow]

i think he just doesn't need to be attuned to it but the aetherytes have to like what Lyon said

[wind bough]

Also the language barrier doesn’t apply because everyone we meet speaks a common tongue

We don’t need the Echo outside of very rare cases

[trail yarrow]

okay. question. how do i access the EW minstrel's ballads?

i talked to him about the two but its not on my df

[wind bough]

High end duties tab

Current endgame fights always go there

[trail yarrow]

oh. there is no ballad for the ||The Final Day|| yet? or is that gonna be something else

[stiff charm]

6.1

[mental tangle]

Funny the ones that everione shit on SCH and DRKNGT are the best of the best

[trail yarrow]

ah

[stiff charm]

wait is your pfp your bun

[trail yarrow]

yes

[stiff charm]

can you post a clearer pic LMAO i think we are twins

[trail yarrow]

uhh. hold on

here you go

[stiff charm]

omg

[trail yarrow]

was it? :3

oh wow! it is! that's kinda awesome. and you are on aether too! 😄

[humble heron]

should prob spoiler this

[stiff charm]

oop sorry

[half phoenix]

I'm still in the boat that WE never see Hildibrand again, and he's now going to go forward through FF titles with Gilgamesh

[humble heron]

i mean he's confirmed to be back

[trail yarrow]

where do we spend the new tomes?

[humble heron]

radz

west bazaar

[trail yarrow]

oh really? cool. i thought its on shar for some reason

[humble heron]

nope

[trail yarrow]

cool.

[humble heron]

radz is the eulmore of the expac

[trail yarrow]

i guess ill go ahead and farm it then.

[humble heron]

though, you should be aware i think 580 gear is coming out in 6.01 from normal raids

[hearty ravine]

So after playing through msq does EW actually have 30%more cutscene than SHB? After playing through it i think it is about the same.

[humble heron]

so farming for those tomestones might not be as viable

[trail yarrow]

yeah. but my lv89 reward gear wont be good?

i have that one that people say was one-off gear. the 560 ilvl gear

[humble heron]

you should be able to get to normal with like 555 or so, in theory

[proper saffron]

Hope so, i am not so into doing extremes for that 590 gear.

[dim sigil]

didnt they confirm
he is coming back and they only took a break with shb

[lament breach]

!slowmode 0

[lusty shadow]

Success!

Slowmode Updated to 0, Kupo!

[humble heron]

thanks mr wailord, the pokemon

[frigid oasis]

Are the Hunt Sacks of Nuts the same as the SHB ones?

[stiff charm]

yep

[frigid oasis]

do SHB hunt board still reward nuts?

[trail yarrow]

jesus christ. i just had a blm die at least 10x on the last dungeon 😄

[stiff charm]

yes

[frigid oasis]

cool, thank you

[scenic vigil]

how long is EW msq while skipping cutscenes?

[trail yarrow]

wait. does the last dungeon on EW stop giving tomes after a number of tries?

[late aurora]

No?

[trail yarrow]

weird. i didn't get any on my last run

[late aurora]

Are you full?

[trail yarrow]

i had 350 before i did it and ended with 350

[dusk sequoia]

Hello, just wondering if anyone knows what Emet-Selch's greatsword is

[trail yarrow]

wait what. that happened?

[dusk sequoia]

Played Ktisis Hyperboreia as a Trust

If you play DPS, Emet-Selch is a Tank

[main umbra]

looks like cryptlurker i would assume the level 80 poetics?

[mellow spade]

sooo dark knight or warrior rn? Im disliking all the buttons as gnb lmao

[dusk sequoia]

Not Cryptlurker unless they changed it. I recall Cryptlurker having a square tip

[main umbra]

not sure then sry

[frigid oasis]

think its deepshadow one

[dusk sequoia]

Oh nice it is, tyvm

[trail yarrow]

oh wow. that looks really nice

[stiff charm]

yeah a lot of the old shb tome gear is great, can get it with nuts in the crystarium

[hexed mango]

I kinda wish they let you have the option to level all the way from 1

This is gonna sound stupid but

Like, Reaper and Sage were super hard to learn at level 70

[fluid basalt]

i wish it'd start lower too. if only that would mean they could get more story in terms of job quests like the other ARR jobs

[hexed mango]

Dude Reaper is so weird

I do this thing where I try to put single target stuff on R2

and AOE stuff on L2

But there's so many more single target buttons :'c

[vital brook]

Ya gotta think, with ||Ameliance donating a big chunk of $ to the Scions, Tataru shouldn't have been mad at Alphinaud for buying back Gosetsu's sword||

[sick flame]

potd

[stiff charm]

still a ton of money

[trail yarrow]

it is a ridiculous amount of money

[fluid basalt]

my money is my money regardless of the source ok

[trail yarrow]

besides, i think if alphi just mentioend it before hand, tataru wouldn't mind as much. actually, i dont remember if he did or not

guys, how do i get on that part of the map? i cant seem to find the way

[fluid basalt]

fly?

[jade relic]

where are you now is the question

[stiff charm]

go from bestways burrow

the arrow covers it up but theres a tiny path

[trail yarrow]

Finished ew

[fluid basalt]

if you finished, you can fly?

[trail yarrow]

There's a aether xurrent there

[trail yarrow]

Thanks. I'll try that

hmmm... i can't seem to find it

[jade relic]

as in you cant find how to get there pr cant find the current?

[trail yarrow]

nvm. found it. i am a dumdum

i dont know why i didn't see that

[gleaming bough]

Which is worse, holminster switch or vanaspati?

[frosty jolt]

holminster switch

the last pull before the last boss is really annoying

[gleaming bough]

Oh no

I don mean the fights

I mean the tone

[next quarry]

Vana

[tulip geyser]

||Well being that at least Sin Eaters get to still have their aether released, to go back into the lifestream even if it is messed up and blaphemies poof into nothing I'd say theres no contest||

[frosty jolt]

yeah vanaspati

[gleaming bough]

|| Iirc while its true the aether get released back but iirc it still became a sin eater||

[next quarry]

||Holminster didnt have us see a mother terrifying their children to become monsters||

[gleaming bough]

Imo yeah vana is scarier

Those mouths.... Those mouths on ground

[next quarry]

||Aether when dispersed is theorized to not have a form, and just comes back together to form another thing||

[fluid basalt]

i thought Kujata was second to Tonberry? hmm

[frosty jolt]

all this talk of vanaspati is making me nauseous

that dungeon was unnerving

[slender siren]

Did you cry?

[gleaming bough]

Heck im already crying on trial 2

May || venat || have a good rest

[slender siren]

||||

[slender siren]

||end of days ||

[calm oracle]

Is there a better way to farm the new tomestone, other than running trials and duty roulettes

[slender siren]

Farm lvl 90 dungeons

Good luck with that

[next quarry]

Hunts

[calm oracle]

Is the drop rate for the new mounts really low

[next quarry]

The 6.0 ex ones?

Yes

They buff it usually 2 patches after

iirc

[calm oracle]

I haven't seen a single one in 40 runs

[next quarry]

That's normal haha

[calm oracle]

Wait there was one

I rolled a 4 on it

[next quarry]

When the rates get buffed you can trade in 99 totems for it

[calm oracle]

I'll probably buy shields and dsyn them

For the mats

[weary rampart]

A ranks S ranks , lvl 90 dungeons. Lvl 90 dungeon gives 80 each run , so u could get a lot in hrs

[next quarry]

Shield's desynth rate got lowered

[calm oracle]

Ah

[slender siren]

I want the EX weapons

Are they BiS?

[next quarry]

For now

[calm oracle]

Bis?

[next quarry]

Best in slot

[slender siren]

Best in slot

[weary rampart]

575 is the highest possible ilvl for now

[calm oracle]

Ah

[next quarry]

The best combination of gear you can get

[slender siren]

Too bad pandaemonium comes tomorrow so they’re gonna become obsolete

[calm oracle]

Yeah

[next quarry]

Pandae is Tuesday

[slender siren]

Oh

But still

[calm oracle]

Is there item sync for the new ex trials?

[slender siren]

Plus the augmented moonward weapons

[next quarry]

No item syncs for ex trials

[calm oracle]

Ah okay

[next quarry]

Above 560 is required however

Iirc

Might be 550

[calm oracle]

I think it's 560

[slender siren]

It’s 560

Can’t wait for unreal warring triad

[frosty jolt]

unreal nidhogg

[slender siren]

He’s the ultimate coming this expansion

So who’s gonna be the bosses

Thordan nidhogg and ???

[urban phoenix]

||https://www.xivmodarchive.com/modid/39442||

Im really tempted.... ||"hello....may we be....friends?"|| 😭

[astral lodge]

don't you hate it when you do ||stigma dreamscape and no one appreciates your Inception references?||

[late aurora]

Bold of you to assume I watched that movie

[urban phoenix]

cant wait to have my birb

when does the pvp stuff start actually?

[rain onyx]

6.1

Which is probably in March

[sweet elm]

.... ||attempt 7 at Hydalaen.. I hate this fight||

[fluid basalt]

normal?

[sweet elm]

yea

[fluid basalt]

do it with trusts

[urban phoenix]

just wait till you get to ex

i raged so hard at the start

but yeah do it with trust

[fluid basalt]

eh just skip the ex

not worth it

[urban phoenix]

||you get the 580 weapon?||

||from hydi?||

so i would say worth it. and after you understand the fight its reasonable. but at the start there is so much glow and shine stuff which overshadows her mechanic telegraphs you dont know where front and back is

[pulsar current]

imma buy a 580 weapon in 2 week

[late aurora]

2 weeks?

[urban phoenix]

it doesnt help that most grps who even are in progress state use the greed farm method of only 1 heal 1 one tank

probably from new tome gear?

depends on the stats on it i guess? also some of the hydi weapons look nice

[pulsar current]

i got some crafting homies

[urban phoenix]

doesnt mean the crafting weapon is better

[late aurora]

Isn’t pandemonium gear gonna be like...

[sweet elm]

666 hopefully

because funny hur hur

[late aurora]

Yeah it should be also be 580

Going by ShB

[urban phoenix]

pande is the raid?

could be 10 higher

[sweet elm]

does ||hydalaen die at 0%? Because my god.. this thing is taking longer than the pandemic||

[late aurora]

I mean the normal mode

[urban phoenix]

could still be 10 higher

think about it. why would you run raid if you get the same gear?

[hoary dagger]

Different stat mixups to fine tune your class bis

[urban phoenix]

zodiark provides you 580 acessoires. hydi the 580 weapon. the only thing the raid could provide would be 580 left side

i would still say 590

and savage 600

[late aurora]

(Looks at the people too cowardly to do EXs)

[regal lantern]

Any ex trials up yet?

Cause I didn’t see any ex trial weapons

[gaunt star]

nraid gear will be 580

we've seen the pattern happen six times in a row and if SE likes anything it's not breaking patterns

[late aurora]

Thank you

And Rinhou, they’re from the trial 2 EX

[warm glen]

what are rgba colors for rpr and sge now?

trying to code mini parse atm

[abstract eagle]

do we get the raid with 6.01 ?

[regal lantern]

Is the game currently in maintenance?

[indigo shale]

no maintenance doesnt start till 2am on the 21st

[regal lantern]

Strange

The game is showing “Unable to complete version check [30605][20447][20526]”

VPN solved the issue

[unborn umbra]

always worth doing hard content

if you ever wanna do savage or ult tiers which will be BiS, doing hyd is a good starter difficulty for savages

[fluid basalt]

eventually yeah

[unborn umbra]

it's not as hard as a savage and far from it, but id say its like e12 in between normal and savage

[fluid basalt]

but if you struggle to even clear normal

7 retries

[unborn umbra]

well i mean

its either them or duty finder

hyd normal is self explanatory although nowadays i get queued up for trial roulettes to get new members for EW

so theres that too

[jolly sierra]

That's what I thought too before shb then they gave +10 ilvls to af gear

Would've been funny weed number ilvl otherwise

[slender siren]

[hearty ravine]

New tomestone gear 590 upgradeable to 600

[gaunt star]

Did someone find already out that at MSQ90 ||Who those voices belong we walk through after the Twins?||

[slender siren]

Who’s ready for FF 17

[late aurora]

Yep

[slender siren]

||you should know them||

[gaunt star]

||I am bad with voice recognition, I think I heard Haurchefant and Ysaile?? but the rest I have no idea||

[slender siren]

[late aurora]

The first and last voice is ||Ardbert|| fittingly

[fluid basalt]

17 announced? whut

[indigo shale]

i dont think so

[late aurora]

Here’s a Reddit with the names:
||https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/rdd7cm/spoilers_60_voices_from_the_past/||

[indigo shale]

i doubt theyll do another mmo until 14 has run its course, no need for them to split the fanbase so soon after this game is doing really well, wouldnt be profitable.so maybe something like FFXXII will be the next ff mmo

[wet crown]

you mean until XI gets shut down

[gleaming bough]

bruh

[proper zealot]

The inaccuracy of this map at ||Hydaelyn||

[gleaming bough]

the final push

[fluid basalt]

spoiler image

[fluid basalt]

FFXI offline when. if DQ can get one...

[sick flame]

first time really delving into gemstone stuff, the main gemstone trader in sharlayan, will that just unlock all zone goods there or just have new stuff (or both)

[indigo shale]

||i think yuo can get the gemstone vouchers which you need 500 for to get the wivre mount||

[wet crown]

every region has a specific vendor and then there's 2 vendors that unlock, once you reach rank 3 in all 6 zones

[indigo shale]

||so only 3571+ fates to farm after the initial farm for a mount||

[sick flame]

yeah I dont want to lose braincells to that

[wet crown]

The rank 3 vendors for ShB are in the Crystarium and Eulmore. The rank 3 vendors for EW are in Sharlayan and Radz-at-han.

[sick flame]

both have the same goods?

[wet crown]

Nope.

[sick flame]

oh

[fluid basalt]

"only"

[sick flame]

so new goods, but still have to go to specific zone vendors for their products right>?

[wet crown]

yupp

[sick flame]

bummer

[wet crown]

actually, I think the rank 3 vendors sell the same monster drops as the region specific vendors but eh...
not that it matters a lot

[blazing edge]

rejoining party outside the old sharlayan library, be there or be sundered

[half phoenix]

Yea, Crystarium and Eulmore, and Sharlayan and Radz-at-han(?) bicolor vendors sell the mats from every zone along with their own selection of exclusive stuff

[weary rampart]

EX 2 coffer get

[urban phoenix]

man i kinda want a ex version of the last trial :x

[halcyon violet]

There will be

With raid patch

[urban phoenix]

OqO

[fluid basalt]

it'll come soon

[weary rampart]

all trial are bound to have an EX version of them except "that one arr" trial

[fluid basalt]

which one arr?

[weary rampart]

forgot its name but its an uneventful fight

[fluid basalt]

oh the relic weapon ones?

[weary rampart]

oh + that = 2

[fluid basalt]

memoria misera is so dead smh

[weary rampart]

u better be prepare for a whole lot of headache mechanics .

[fluid basalt]

hope they choose a good story for the trial series this time. since x.3 will also be part of that story most likely

[weary rampart]

oh my , EX 2 with only 1 tank and 1 healer

[lean ore]

|| Meteion got ||

[fluid basalt]

||the root of all evil||

[lean ore]

|| no the grey one is evil D: ||

[gaunt star]

I'm actually curious what happens to the blue one?

Does she just ||fly around or what?||

[indigo shale]

||assumedly so, i think she might end up like a omega and alpha situation i feel where we can find them across the realm randomly||

[gaunt star]

I'm actually curious if she will ||play any role in the future||

[iron birch]

Odin?

[thorny flax]

||I hope she appears in some form again. I really liked her widepeepoHappy||

[weary rampart]

msq trial before praetorium

[iron birch]

Ah

Cape westind

Can't believe we really got cape Westwind 2

[gaunt star]

I liked her till ||she and her clones fucked everything up||

[indigo shale]

||well tbf, no one expected everything in space to be dead, and that a flawed question could present quite that big a problem||

[thorny flax]

||I still think that Hermes was actually right to test us||

[indigo shale]

||venat also rised to the test aswell rather than casting him out and dismissing his trial which is one of the reasons for why she sundered everyone||

[thorny flax]

yep

[gaunt star]

Well sure us ||but what about other stars?||

[indigo shale]

||well he didnt test other stars only etheryis||

[jade relic]

he just asked a question

just didnt realize it could have no answer

[gaunt star]

Didn't this whole shit wreck other ||stars ||as well 😂

[indigo shale]

||they were already wrecked before metion even arrived there, hence why she/all of them became full of despair, as emet said what would she derive from their silence, if their was no one to have a desire to live||

[vague forum]

Holy shit the RPR 70-80 story is fucking insane.

[iron birch]

||meteion also wrecked some stars||

[gaunt star]

Pretty sure she made some ||stars give up on life like the dragons|| or am I wrong?

[indigo shale]

||well i think the dragons had bigger problems, like being in an active war with the omicrons at the time||

[iron birch]

But yeah, || she did||

[gaunt star]

Well sure, but unlike Midgarsomir ||they gave up||

Which comes to the next question... midgardsomr when 😂

[fluid basalt]

||running away|| isn't ||giving up?||

[gaunt star]

No? He continued to live, and rebuilt

Others just ||completely lost the will to live, hence why Estinien shits on them||

[vague forum]

||He didn’t give up on life||, that much is certain

[urban phoenix]

uh no.|| meteion didnt wreck any stars. i dont understand why people get that wrong so often. she basically fell into depression after witnessing so many stars dying on their own. the only thing she did after falling into said depression is surpressing the cycle of NEW life. which she fixes afterwards.||

you can see that|| as she shows you the fate of so 6 different planets who died. the dragon planet. the eas planet, the omnicron ones and 3 unnamed ones in the instance "the deads ends"||

[gloomy tide]

Yep, ||She mentions either that they were dead when she got there or how they obliterated themselves when she made contact||

[urban phoenix]

exactly. ||and all these negative feelings of anguish, pain and fear made her depressed and she decided life is not worth the hassle as so many planes she visited attested.||

[tulip geyser]

Ah yes good old "Everyone sucks but humans, somehow "
My favorite trope lol

[urban phoenix]

nobody said that? ||the second plane she visits in "the dead ends" is one of humanoids waging war until they killed themself. the third is also a humanoid one where they found immortality and lost all drive so they made a beast that kills em.||

we dont know how ||the ea and the omnicron looked either, after they shed their original mortal body. the ea became ghosties and the omnicrons machines. we dont know how their original form looked like||

and these are only ||the 6 planes she showed us. we also saw the giant swarm of black birbs. so there where a lot more planes she visited. we have no information what life looke like there....||

[tulip geyser]

When I say humans, I should specify "the people most like us irl today"

[swift kraken]

that wasnt said either

[urban phoenix]

yeah....

[swift kraken]

you can see all of those other races as simply more advanced selves

[urban phoenix]

if you take our irl....we would be garleans....

[swift kraken]

like alternate universes where we had a lot more time

[urban phoenix]

i dont wanna be a garlean thank you <.<

[swift kraken]

and the ||part during the final dungeon where the people killed themselves in their own paradise did remind me of amaurot, another "perfect paradise"||

[iron birch]

She states so herself

[gaunt star]

Didn't the ||ascians get called "humanity" tho?||

[iron birch]

Or it was the ||twins||

They talk about how ||meteion might have ushered some people to the end||

[swift kraken]

yeah ||it was implied that she and her sisters were so nihilistic they directly contributed to stars failing in the end||

[gaunt star]

Oh yeah she did mention that at some point? Wasn't that after the instance?

[swift kraken]

not really implied, said more like

they say it after you arrive at the necropolis in the last zone

[urban phoenix]

no she doesnt....||as freis said she mentions how they where either dead husks already or where in the middle of their own destruction or lethargy.|| what the twins say is just guess work.

[swift kraken]

why would you take her word for it though

shes speaking from her own perspective

[urban phoenix]

why would you take the twins words just like that?

[swift kraken]

from her perspective they did it themselves, but its far more likely that it wasnt just that

[iron birch]

Cause they characters are walking exposition

[urban phoenix]

sorry i dont understand that Xd

[swift kraken]

also in the last dungeon

if you actually read the little notes

[iron birch]

The ||judgment day on iirc||

[swift kraken]

during the last zone,|| they decided to end themselves after a little blue bird came and asked what the meaning of life was||

[gaunt star]

Considering how the ||The Endsinger didn't give a shit about anything but her own belief, so whatever she says is probably ignorant of the truth||

[swift kraken]

and they couldnt give it an answer

[urban phoenix]

you might have missed one

[swift kraken]

so they slowly started to despair

that was the beginning of their end, though

one can say it couldve happened anyway but meteion directly contributed in this instance

[urban phoenix]

because it clearly states that the blue little bird came after they where at that point of lethargy. she just asked a simple question they couldnt find an answer for because they took all meaning of life themself

to say meteion is the cause for that is a very long reach

[swift kraken]

cause, no

didnt say that either

but its not a reach in the slightest to say that the birds were more than just passive observers

[gaunt star]

Considering their ||song with the use of Dynamis having affected the source until Zodiark was protecting it and then stopped protecting it with his existence, im inclined to believe that worlds that weren't affected by Zodiark, ie all but the source, probably got destroyed as well||

[gaunt star]

Considering their song and them causing all the annihilation by asking that question, they did more harm than good

[swift kraken]

its also like a, slippery slope thing

when you see a lot of dead worlds, eventually you adopt that mindset for yourself to the point that you wouldnt be able to see even happy worlds as a good thing

directly seen with the source

so not a reach again to say that they subconsciously or consciously contributed to a lot more stars falling

[gaunt star]

More consciously considering what they have been doing till ||their defeat||

[swift kraken]

well, before they went full destroyer

[gaunt star]

Well, first few years, they certainly did it without awareness, but after that? All shit broke loose

[swift kraken]

considering the whole thing was 1 big allegory for depression that just kept hitting you in the face, them making it worse for others and themselves in that way makes 1000% sense

[gaunt star]

I gotta say tho, ||Hermes is a piece of shit, and he got pretty much scot free||

[swift kraken]

||hermes was like meteion, he had too much empathy for others and it destroyed him||

[gaunt star]

And he continued to wreck shit even after ||his sundering||

[swift kraken]

||he ended up having so much empathy for others that he, too, ended up believing we would all be better off dead than alive to be spared the suffering of being alive||

[gleaming bough]

so its over.....

[gaunt star]

Now the depression sets in after finishing ff14

[tulip geyser]

||According to basically way too many people the Ancients deserved to die anyhow, apparently, so its fine. Mama Venat happily crushed their civilization after all. They were gonna just end up like Civ 3 of Dead Ends (never mind that civ 2 will probably be sundered humans but no one cares about that) ||

[swift kraken]

honestly if theres 1 thing i love about this xpac the most is how much of it just fucking hits when you have suffered from depression before

[vague forum]

https://tenor.com/view/tinder-my5n5-kermit-gif-24133413

[swift kraken]

like idk who on the writing team wasnt doing well

but i hope hes fine now

[gleaming bough]

technically thats || amon || right?

[swift kraken]

it was both

[gaunt star]

He still has a lot of Hermes in him xP

[sand tiger]

||Hermes and his Meteion are so emo, they cannot bear the suffering that somebody would not be as emo. so they decide both, independently but in basic agreement that if not everything can be as emo as them, the world must end.|| Tell me it aint so.

[late aurora]

||Amon is a hermes||

[swift kraken]

hades?

[tulip geyser]

||Thats just nihilism for you.
Staring into the void, not even once||

[vague forum]

Hell ||Amon|| is just inverted ||Hermes||

[gaunt star]

||in the end mama is gone as well ||

[swift kraken]

thats a horribly simple way of phrasing it lmao

[sand tiger]

that's the joke.

[vague forum]

He just traded in ||Depression|| for ||Nihilism||

[swift kraken]

well

same thing

[gaunt star]

Very fitting for the asshole that ||started everything||

[swift kraken]

ffxiv has always been a bunch of depressed people duking it out

[gaunt star]

Except Zenos

[swift kraken]

lmfao

zenos is super depressed

[fluid basalt]

childhood trauma

[swift kraken]

hes arguably the most depressed of them all

[sand tiger]

Zenos is, while an absolute fuck up mentally, the only actual nihilist.

[gaunt star]

Is he tho? He always looked to me more like a mentally unstable murder hobo

[vague forum]

You could say Zenos had depression since birth and the only hit of dopamine he ever got was with the WOL

[swift kraken]

hes so depressed that he absolutely doesnt get enjoyment out of anything

except fighting to his death

[urban phoenix]

Yeah i wouldnt call zenos depressed

[swift kraken]

its a flavour of depression for sure

[gaunt star]

Well clearly not enough to keep him dead

[urban phoenix]

More obsessive murder hobo

[vague forum]

Depression isn't just "feeling sadge"

[swift kraken]

depression isnt being capital SAD, its nihilism

[sand tiger]

Zenos isn't depressed. he's a psychopath through and through. his moral and emotional frame of reference is completely bonkers.

[urban phoenix]

Aye

[swift kraken]

no, its destructive depression from where im standing

[vague forum]

The lack of interest in anything and everything can also be a symptom of depression, on a physiological level

[urban phoenix]

Short question tho

[gaunt star]

I'm gonna miss ||Hades and Venat tho||

[swift kraken]

depression destroys your emotional frames of references as well

[tulip geyser]

What makes me kinda chuckle is ||that people go on and on about the Ancient's weird animal husbandry and how Hermes ofc hated it but its like "You realize he would have called the hammer down on modern Etheriys as well right? We certainly dont painlessly kill animals and still do whatever with them. Probably even more so, given war animals and the like."||

[sand tiger]

he does get enjoyment out of fighting his nemesis. so he cannot be depressed.

[swift kraken]

what the fuck

what kind of take is that

[urban phoenix]

Am i the only one who enjoys listing up for normal trials for the woahs and ooohs of the newbs? I do that more than actual 90 content 😂

[sand tiger]

simple: you derive he's depressed, up to a "nihilistic" level based on his disinterest in everything but facing his nemesis.

I say this does not suffice to classify it as depression. but he acts like a psychopath.

[gaunt star]

I look pretty generic so I don't get any woahs or anything.

I look good for myself

[urban phoenix]

Like yesterday it was normal trials for 6 hours straight

[swift kraken]

the psychologist

its not just the enjoyment of things

its his whole philosophy

[tulip geyser]

||https://i.redd.it/uqf7a6x2oo481.png||

[urban phoenix]

I mean the story unfolding conrad not your char -.-

[swift kraken]

as i said, i suffer from depression and a lot of the ways that zenos thinks can be eerily similar to what you experience

[gaunt star]

But it isn't due to his depression but how they fucked up his psyche tho?

[swift kraken]

like, its nihilism so aggressive that you dont get enjoyment out of anything

except the most extreme things

[vague forum]

to be fair though, nihilism and depression can be rooted in the same.... place

[swift kraken]

in zenos case, hes so reckless he wants to fight to his ltieral death

[sand tiger]

Nihilism isn't "nothing really matters". It's "nothing really matters, so I can do the fuck I want"

[swift kraken]

he lacks empathy for others, another point

obv we cant diagnose him 100% but i firmly believe he was written to reflect a type of depression in his own way

[sand tiger]

nihilism != pessimism

[tulip geyser]

Its really too bad; Zenos has a single minded focus (not to mention beefstronkness) that could have been put to use in so many places in his life if it wasnt for the bad feels

[swift kraken]

depression isnt pessimism either

[urban phoenix]

I think we should stop the psyschological talk. It kinda becomes weird. No offense

[swift kraken]

its a mix of many things

[sand tiger]

Zenos is a trope.

[swift kraken]

nihilism is very often a part of it

[tulip geyser]

Like being a royal is already isolating, let alone Garlean ethos things

[swift kraken]

and based on his upbringing, its not a reach to say that he developed some aggressive depression in his time

[vague forum]

Honestly, this is all just speculation

[swift kraken]

not to mention how his thinking also parallels a lot of the stuff ||hermes and meteion|| believe

who i thought were both pretty fuckin depressed

[vague forum]

The reality of the situation is, put simply, that Zenos simply just feels apathy towards everything that is weaker than him and anything that's not related to fighting

That's just a really interesting way of writing a fight-holic

[swift kraken]

ofc, but that doesnt mean we cant speculate where it comes from and what it implies

and i personally think that the depression angle makes him very interesting

[sand tiger]

And I say that's not depression but a fucking psychopath :D

[tulip geyser]

Well Zenos DID use to enjoy other things, kind of. He liked books, definitely.

[vague forum]

For real? First time I hear bout it

[swift kraken]

psychopath implies there no rhyme or reason to what he does and that he was simply born that way

its not fun or interesting to look at it that way for me

zenos as a product of his upbringing and environment is more interesting imo

[sand tiger]

what? psychopaths DO have rhyme or reason. it's simply íncompatible with general society and the established moral standards. they are "fucked up" in their ethics. wouldn't you agree that fits Zenos?

[gaunt star]

Didn't zenos turn into a psycho because of the experiments done on him as a kid or something? (Don't remember the exact context, but it was mentioned in StB)

[tulip geyser]

Its in the short story. He read a lot, or used to as a kid. Might have been a way just to pass time, but it seemed agreeable enough to him

[swift kraken]

psychopaths dont even exist as a classification

its a meaningless term

[sand tiger]

erm

[gaunt star]

"someone who is callous, unemotional, and morally depraved"

Aka Zenos

[swift kraken]

you can apply the exact same thing to people who are depressed

as i said, meaningless

[sand tiger]

you sure about that? cause there are quite a lot of medical handbooks and official classifications that try to tackle such personality disorders commonly referred to as "psychosis"

[swift kraken]

psychosis is VERY different

lmfao

[gaunt star]

Well no, depressed people still feel emotions.

[swift kraken]

so does zenos, but theyre very muted

just like people who are depressed

[sand tiger]

that's the thing. psychopathy and psychosis are often conflated in common parlance, hence the need to classify each other (and from another)

[swift kraken]

psychosis is literally a completely different thing

[sand tiger]

no shit.

[swift kraken]

if you look up accounts from depressed people youll often read that they feel that they feel things less and are less able to enjoy things, or feel sad or mad or anything really

[gaunt star]

To an extent a psychopath has. Depressed people have far more varied emotions than Zenos. Who btw, who is much like psychopath murders

[swift kraken]

zenos is muted in the exact same way, except he basically "found his meds"

which is fighting to the death

[gaunt star]

Like psychopath murders do. He's not depressed. He's mentally fucked

[swift kraken]

all youve said can be applied just fine to people who are depressed

you have a misunderstanding of what depression is and what it can do to you

[gaunt star]

If you ever seen police question psychopath murderers, Zenos sounds like them, not like depressed people

[sand tiger]

psychopaths often react disinterested, muted, unempathetic towards things and situations outside their established frame of reference. that's the reason they are sometimes confused with sociopaths.

[pulsar current]

He could be bipolar too

[sand tiger]

he could be a toaster

I mean, we rally can discuss this ad nauseum and I can see arguments for either. but in the end, dude's just majorly fucked in the head in any case.

[swift kraken]

bipolar would be different, hes fairly stable in being completely disinterested

[vague forum]

I dunno if I'd call him bipolar tbqh, then again (admittedly) my knowledge on bd is very limited.

[swift kraken]

again, you can apply all these things to depressed people

depression can fuck with your head in the exact same way

which is why i said psychopathy is a mostly meaningless term, it overlaps with a lot of things

[sand tiger]

maybe, just maybe that's because depression has become such a general catch all term for any mental instability you are clearly suffering from.

[vague forum]

The thing is though, the boring reality of the character is that he was simply written to be a monster who's sole pleasure in life is fighting.

[swift kraken]

what lol

i dont use it as a catch all term

[vague forum]

Even by garlean standard

[gaunt star]

Watch a bit of criminal questioning of psychopath killers. You will see zenos is closer to them

[sand tiger]

you do. just like everyone else does applying it, because these conditions are so hard to properly define.

it's the same with any other mental condition.

[swift kraken]

i still think im more educated on the topic than most my man

i dont use it lightly but zenos reminds me a lot of other cases ive seen

[sand tiger]

FOUL. player appeals to education without proof. 5 yards for the opposing team.

[swift kraken]

im literally fucking depressed

[sand tiger]

and that makes you an expert.

[swift kraken]

yeah because i happen to be educated on the topic

[vague forum]

I really don't think that's how it works.

Even for people with majors in said degree

[sand tiger]

I am sorry for your condition but let's just pretend for a second I am suffering from worse. is your insight invalid because of it? I don't claim the contrary either. so please don't try to appeal to it as being some kind of proof.

[swift kraken]

i dont really want to reveal more than that

no one is interested in my life story on discord so take it or leave it

[sand tiger]

okay. no proof.

[gaunt star]

Just because you're depressed doesn't mean you know more about depression.

[sand tiger]

I suggest we stay civil in this and try to find reviewable facts for our arguments.

[rain onyx]

looks up

Wat in tarnation

[tulip geyser]

Eh, maybe its best to put aside this topic lol

[swift kraken]

take it as you will but im not fucking doxxing myself to prove that im qualified to talk about depression better than most

like lol

[rain onyx]

...What's the context behind all of this?

[vague forum]

https://tenor.com/view/this-up-gif-8606566

[sand tiger]

"he depressed" - "no, he fuck up" - "I know more than you" - "no" - "MOM!"

[gaunt star]

There's probably 50 posts to read to get context

[vague forum]

Pathos summarized it well enough tbqh

It's just arguing over Zenos' state of mind that went a touch far

[rain onyx]

[swift kraken]

im glad youre making fun of me for not wanting to reveal my life story on discord lol

please go outside

[gaunt star]

[swift kraken]

jesus

[rain onyx]

I think the conversation has run its course if personal details like those are now involved.

[sand tiger]

I think in that situation I make fun of us both. Could've shown some more restraint myself, eh?

[vague forum]

discussions are all fun and well

but I think we're taking it a touch too far when we start going "well I know more than you", "lolno"

[sand tiger]

I am more of a "yes, but no. lol" guy.

[gaunt star]

I've been depressed for like 7 years at least, but I don't start claiming I know anything about depression. It's like a sneak 100 with sneak potions skyrim character

[sand tiger]

I mean, nobody asked anybody to tell anything about any actual person. But let's drop it and return to our usual schedule of griping about how badly written the endwalker story is yet the game is still so good.

[vague forum]

Bro

That rpr job story

that fuckin rpr job story

[gaunt star]

Endwalker being badly written?

[vague forum]

I'm just.... losing my shit over how amazing it was

[gaunt star]

I miss warrior job story

[tulip geyser]

Well theres some stuff I definitely didnt like, but a lot of it was very good

[vague forum]

aka "||impossible quest to get curious gorge laid||"

[sand tiger]

Yes. I'm gonna burn all goodwill I likely never had and say it's badly written, because of bad pacing and overconvoluted revelations. besides the fact that subverting expectations just for the heck of it after such a major build up is a big no-no.

[gaunt star]

I'm not sure why ||defeating a primal always ends with their death. Bruh... cmon||

[gaunt star]

Well he probably did after the last quest xP

[vague forum]

I need to work on that WAR to see the level 90 quest

[gaunt star]

Oh the beginning of EW was slow af, but I loved it over all... tho I did predict the plot after the beginning stuff

[vague forum]

cuz ngl, despite how silly WAR quest is. I fuckin love it

[unreal gale]

Shrug. You’re free to think it’s badly written, but when a lot of people disagree, it’s worth considering their angle as well. For what it’s worth, I hated certain aspects of EW, but I thought it was convincing overall.

[vague forum]

Honestly, I don't think EW was that poorly paced

[gaunt star]

.... is there lvl 90 war quest?? Thought there's only tank role?

[sand tiger]

I mean, one man's trash is another man's treasure holds true.

[vague forum]

I'm p sure there are

[gaunt star]

Can anyone confirm?

[vague forum]

Honestly, EW was definitely not on the same pacing tier as stormblood at least

[sand tiger]

but outside of FFVII, no FF story really worked for me

[unreal gale]

EW wasn’t badly paced, per se. It was long relative to its previous expansion, which came as a bit of a surprise. I think the moon arc was long for the hell of it being dragged out, though. There was no need to spend that much time in the Loporrit base.

[gaunt star]

Ff14 is my first ff game since ff1 anniversary

[vague forum]

yeah nvm, I guess I was mistaken. DRG don't got a level 90 quest so I guess neither does WAR

[gaunt star]

Yeah, cuz iirc yoshi said all job quests are done

[vague forum]

rip

[unreal gale]

Also: Zenos should have died in SB.

[rain onyx]

FFX was a great story to me, even including the stuff people meme about.

[gaunt star]

Oh wait... I did play 1 other FF

[sand tiger]

it was very badly paced. there are episodic deflations all over the plot that make zero sense for a non-episodic story format like an expansion. there are several elipses in it that have zero point of being there. and the worst of all is the subversion just for the heck of it.

but all that aside I had fun. so all fair I guess?

[gaunt star]

Dissidia

[vague forum]

bruh, I don't think we're done with ||"Zenos"||

[rain onyx]

(I mainly played FFX because it didn't have active combat timer)

[gaunt star]

We are not. That guy will keep on coming i bet

They should make him a Sasuke equivalent meme

Literally what I got from him when he did that walk ||away on the moon||

[vague forum]

After doing the rpr questline, ||I'm now sure that his body not disappearing despite becoming a primal is an important plot point in and of itself||

[humble heron]

||i mean it said he took his last breath||

[vague forum]

Yeah, ||that's why I put "Zenos" in between brackets||

[sand tiger]

||He doth sayeth a lot when the day doth being long||

[unreal gale]

Expansions are episodic, though? Each arc is contained in itself. MMO’s are written with the assumption that you can take a break at any point and do side quests to break yourself from the immersion. I guess they’re treading this weird balance of single-player immersive experience vs. online MMO freedom, but I don’t think you’re analyzing EW from the right perspective.

[gaunt star]

He didn't become|| a primal. He just got powered up by the mother crystal to temporary get that form again||

[gaunt star]

||only to take a deep breath and wake up then gey obsessed over us again imagine him being a Favour option lol||

[swift kraken]

the only time where i actively didnt want a break was in ||sharlayan, having to ferry the bunnies around. that was hell with the hype music playing, though the payoff with urianger made it very worth it||

[tulip geyser]

Call me whatever but I damn near lol'd at ||him busting into the final fight like a draconic fuckin' kool aid man hype to fight
"What is that your prey? lol, just kill it"||

[vague forum]

||Was it though? Didn't he use the power of the mother crystal to summon shinryu (since old shinryu was dead) to assume that form?
Same way the other 'good' primals were summoned with the power of the mother crystal. That's what he was referring to with burning away his life or something to that effect. Mind you, I could 100% be talking out of my ass||

[gaunt star]

Man, that broke me lol

[swift kraken]

and then having to find 8 random npcs

[gaunt star]

Nah, he used the crystal to temporarily get that

[vague forum]

oh ok understandable

[unreal gale]

I hated the bunny segment, lmao. Took me a while to come around as a whole. The biggest reason I did is because Urianger is my favorite Scion, and I can’t hold too much against him.

[gaunt star]

Urianger saved that

[indigo shale]

It works the same way shiva and thordan summoned

[swift kraken]

it was awful but i absolutely loved the payoff

[tulip geyser]

Urianger was especially bae this expac

[vague forum]

Also yeah, ||torn from the heavens playing while you're just..... doing fuckall with lalarabbits was just... bleh||

[humble heron]

ok, bear with me, but spoilers for yakuza 3, yakuza: like a dragon, and endwalker ||zenos is going to open up a bar somewhere, get a new haircut, and we just aren't gonna talk about how he lived||

[swift kraken]

and considering how long ew is as a whole, the segment wasnt long enough to really be that bad

[sand tiger]

the expansion's plot is not an episode. it is one cohesive plot. yet it contains episodic deflations even WITHIN a zone, completely fumbling the stride each zone's respective plot has had. you don't design an MMO, even single player orientated in such a way because you cannot foresee when a player decides to end their playsession.

[gaunt star]

And Yshtola ||but I'm based cuz she cried for me||

[swift kraken]

you fail to consider that every single deflation always leads to something, no matter what

even the bullshit with the bunnies always had a payoff that led to a bigger picture and contributed

which also tied into the main plot

[gaunt star]

Everything except ||the split ||at the start had a pay off imho at least

[swift kraken]

that had one as well

[unreal gale]

It’s a plot made up of episodes that’s consistent with the MMO experience. Your issue seems to be with the way FFXIV stories are structured, and it’s valid to dislike and/or criticize it, but it’s another to say the story sucks because they decided to tell it a certain way. But we can agree to disagree.

[vague forum]

Oh yeah... the ||split|| felt jarring

[swift kraken]

they couldve done it in a more graceful way for sure, but considering the good payoff is what stays in most peoples minds, i can forgive it

[sand tiger]

wat? these deflations are not a dramaturgical tool to establish a jumping point. they are literally meaningless interludium that have no advantage for the player's understanding. this is different from like the deflations that happen after a revelation or after conclusion of certain MSQ parts.

[swift kraken]

of course they furthered your understanding every time

[gaunt star]

There was a pay off for the ||split?||
I dont remember any

[sand tiger]

okay. you are not reading what I write. I am out of this discussion.

[vague forum]

I guess they're referring to ||tower of zot||...

[unreal gale]

They are, though..? I used the breaks between the different societies in ||Ultimate Thule|| to do stuff. They’re not meaningless deflations. They’re tied with the scope of zone exploration.

[tulip geyser]

The ||split|| was weird.|| Like luckily I stayed local but I cant imagine how jarring it was to go to the island first
Oh shes trapped. Time for Sharlayan politics. Like I get why and all tho ||

[fluid basalt]

please hide the 6th zone name

[gaunt star]

I personally didn't like the tower.

[viscid monolith]

The split probably wasn't a decision made for sake of the narrative

[swift kraken]

[fluid basalt]

spoiler

[swift kraken]

if youre afraid of getting spoiled dont be here

this is a channel you enter at your own risk

[vague forum]

Oh man, ||I did the island first and then I did sharlayan|| and that was fucking jarring as hell

[sand tiger]

that zone is not even such an offender.

[indigo shale]

Spoiler tags are enforced in here

[gaunt star]

And also, he's on mobile so I don't think he can spoiler images

[vague forum]

I think people blow the ||outfit|| = spoiler way out of proportion. Tbh, at best, it's an out of context spoiler.

[indigo shale]

The owner of the server has put it in the pins that they are enforced

[sand tiger]

I am not saying the story sucks, btw. I am saying the storytelling sucks. The how not the what.

[swift kraken]

both things are pinned at the same time so if you dont want to get spoiled, dont be here still applies

[viscid monolith]

I'm sure they split the Scions in the beginning so the Sharlayan and Thavnir zones don't get overloaded.

[gaunt star]

Tbh true, since ||no one knows besides the EW completionists, how you get it ||

[swift kraken]

the sharly zone had the payoff of eventually deciphering what the sharlayans were really up to, as well as the small interlude of meeting the twins parents that i enjoyed

it was basically the prologue of what was to come

thavnair had a whole bunch of stuff that i wont summarise, but same applies there

[sand tiger]

revealed in an elipsis that has no point of being there for anything but the sake of telling an elipsis.

[gaunt star]

Well, at the very least, despite some rough points in EW, I got my pay off ||Y'shtola crying for me||

[swift kraken]

theyre both important major zones so the split makes sense

[versed skiff]

I went to the fisherman to for the main story quest... my elephant man NPC was nowhere to be seen... I backtrack, and I see him stuck here lol

[swift kraken]

and doing all of thavnair in 1 go wouldve been jarring with all the stuff going on there

[fluid basalt]

it's their way of avoiding Raubahn extreme recurring

[unreal gale]

Well, you complained about deflations within a single zone and didn’t specify further, so I figured that was part of the complaint. Again, I think you’re taking issue with how the story is modified to fit the gameplay rather than the story itself. And that’s a valid complaint, but it says more about MMO expectations rather than the FFXIV writers for this expansion, imo.

I didn’t agree with all storytelling decisions either. Bitched the whole time while playing. Flashbacks, random Zenos appearances, and NPC’s from the past that no one remembers were largely meaningless.

Even so, I wouldn’t call it bad. It was decent, just with noticeable flaws.

[fluid basalt]

all the other expansions have early splits

[swift kraken]

endwalker is such a beast of an expansion that having splits there made the most sense, otherwise they wouldnt have been able to fit everything quite as gracefully

[sand tiger]

see, I can agree with your objection. But I stand firmly by my take on it being bad storytelling. Not a bad story. just badly told. the medium plays a part in it. But not fully. Somebody was just, really really fond of some more intricate narrative methods and applied them for the heck of it. I personally derive no enjoyment from that because it did not improve the story itself for me.

[unreal gale]

Fair enough. I can respect that.

[gray orchid]

I think the random Zenos appearances were worth it for the pay off ||at the end||

[swift kraken]

zenos tied pretty hugely into the theme of the expansion so its 0 surprise he was there

[tulip geyser]

||Left him long enough and he was gonna be popping out of dumpsters before long||

[swift kraken]

besides i honestly enjoyed his appearances and im kind of devastated we didnt get to ||enjoy the fandaniel + zenos comedy duo more. they were fucking hilarious, in the scary way||

[unreal gale]

I don’t think Zenos should have been included in the conclusion at all. He detracted from the ending they were building up to. It makes no sense to set him up as WoL’s shounen rival (fighting on some scenic endless arena) when he’s responsible for mass murder, lmao. He’s a dude obsessed with the WoL, not some deserving rival on equal grounds.

[sand tiger]

Zenos should've been killed off long ago. he's just there for the heck of it and to bring that particular trope along. fanservice.

[unreal gale]

For what it’s worth, I was hopeful about Zenos’s inclusion ‘till the Garlemald arc. I thought he’d be the perfect foil to Fandaniel and that this contrast would be the crux of his character. Oh well.

[viscid monolith]

Deserving or not he is your equal

[late aurora]

He’s definitely just as stubborn as us

[indigo shale]

no, fansevice is ||emet selch and his involvement||

[unreal gale]

Emet-Selch is more than mere “fanservice.” ||The entire reason the Final Days are happening is because of what happened in Elpis.||

[vague forum]

I honestly disagree, Zenos was definitely worth the inclusion especially ||towards the end where he got the ultimate payoff||\

[viscid monolith]

No fanservive is || most of Elpis ||

[fluid basalt]

it's still fanservice

[indigo shale]

||any convocation member could have been there one that we havent seen before||

[swift kraken]

zenos ||got a great send-off, and it ended up tying up the wols arc quite nicely as well||

[unreal gale]

Sure, I agree with that. It would have been harder to convince the audience to care, though. So I don’t see why that would have been a smart decision.

[fluid basalt]

what ||send off? he didn't die||

[sand tiger]

just as Zenos is. he's the typical trope of the adversary that helps you realize your own potential, embodied by the disgruntled and reactive beau who's selling himself under worth because of some pathetic trauma of his past.

[gaunt star]

Fanservice was|| mama venat and Hydaelins true form ||

[swift kraken]

||didnt die, but id be surprised if zenos comes back as the same person ever again||

[indigo shale]

ok, but we arent arguing the trope we are arguing the fact you said its fanservice

[sand tiger]

that trope IS fanservice.

[swift kraken]

||its as good as a send-off for me||

[sand tiger]

that's the whole point.

[vague forum]

I mean it's fair to dislike the fact ||he got said sendoff, but I really disagree with the notion that it shouldn't have happened||

[sand tiger]

he's an admirable villain just like emet is.

[unreal gale]

God, if Zenos comes back, I’m going to through my laptop out of this building. I’m tired of this bullshit character. If you like him, I’m happy for you. But I firmly disagree on him being crucial or relevant to the overall message EW tried to convey.

[gaunt star]

I think he won't ||at least not as a nutty murder hobo. Since Alisaie's words hit him pretty hard it seems||

[viscid monolith]

And good god is having a villain that actually enjoys what they do a breath of fresh air when most villains in this gane are fucking sad sacks coming at me with their sad fucking sob story and depression.

[swift kraken]

when were we ever supposed to admire zenos..?

every dialogue option we get with him is telling him to fuck off

meanwhile we are pretty buddy with emet for all he did

[gaunt star]

Until the last dialog

[swift kraken]

we told him to fuck off, but differently

[gaunt star]

Nah, we accepted ||his challenge ||

[unreal gale]

The whole point of EW is compassion. You don’t have to agree with that morally— I don’t. ||(I’m with Quentin philosophically, lmao.)|| But it makes sense for FFXIV antagonists to have compelling stories.

[sand tiger]

we (as players) are talking about him. we are discussing his details and his motivations, we are bothering with him and even arguing because of him. he's admired because we are enticed to engage with what he brings to the story.

[vague forum]

I firmly stand by the belief that Zenos was a good antagonist in stormblood. ||And more of him in endwalker was a good inclusion, especially the final solo duty||

[gaunt star]

I will miss ||Hades || tho... and ||Venat||... I hope they come back

[unreal gale]

He was a decent antagonist in SB. Just not past it.

[indigo shale]

the motives doesnt change the fact these villains are assholes though, emet and his crybaby story mean nothing, backstory != good character

[swift kraken]

and at this point, what ||were you supposed to do, not fight the dude? youre in an endless expanse of nothing, you know if you kill him right then and there he would not harm your friends anymore||

[unreal gale]

What did Zenos do that Fandaniel couldn’t do on his own? Dunno why he was there. Contributed nothing to the making of the Final Days.

[gaunt star]

Especially when|| we warned him 3 times it would happen||

[vague forum]

||acceptance at long last||

[gaunt star]

Yeah pretty much

[swift kraken]

fandaniel has no strength of his own

zenos was the brawn

[sand tiger]

I mean, if we go for it, all the Ascians are just pathetic fucks that get way too much exposition and justification by flashbacks in order to suggest a deeper motivation to their struggles than just being fuck ups.

[gaunt star]

Fandaniel is a lil' bitch

Same for ||Amon||

[swift kraken]

and having zenos as an ally is 10000% beneficial to fandaniel

[unreal gale]

Well, they’re assholes, ya. I think the Scions go too far in redeeming people as well. But compassion is the value these characters endorse and live by, so that’s how the narrative pans out. I don’t think that makes villains bad characters. I still don’t excuse any of what they did.

[vague forum]

Well, Zenos gave us ||a top tier final fight that resembled the kind of shit you saw in metal gear rising with Jack vs Sam||

[unreal gale]

Which was 100% unnecessary. Plus, I was a BLM lala.

[gaunt star]

And ||Sasuke v Naruto, but way better||

[vague forum]

That, in itself, was more than enough reason for him to be there

[tulip geyser]

||Also going forward, you're gonna have to put up with a lot of bad guy cause Im an asshole villains because we're gonna probably be doing human flavored evil for a bit since theres little Ascian influence to blame anymore||

[swift kraken]

even with emet its very important to recognise the circumstances in which he did what he did

[indigo shale]

||we can blame the allagans still so nothing changes to much since they left shit everywhere||

[tulip geyser]

||You think there wont be people trying to exploit Garlemald?||

[vague forum]

Even if it was unnecessary, so what?

[gaunt star]

Show me the screenshots.. I NEED IT

[unreal gale]

Well, I dislike it because it was unnecessary and detracted from my immersion, LOL. I’m glad others enjoyed it, but I’m salty.

[indigo shale]

i do and thats what makes him an absolutely despicable character, we should utilise kairos se we can forget all about that fucker

[sand tiger]

actual, relatable, hard-to-stomach human evil would be SO MUCH MORE appreciated by me. give me more ||garlemald suffering||

[swift kraken]

when you return to ||elpis, emet is the same person but he says himself that he would literally never do the shit you tell him he did||

[blazing edge]

meanwhile i like going through ARR content and seeing people talk about Titan and shit still

[gaunt star]

Despite us telling him ||3 times this will happen and him talking shit that "nah, that's not me I wouldn't do that"... what full of shit he is lol||

[unreal gale]

Oh, this is all I have in my camera roll.

[swift kraken]

i mean, he wouldnt do that, but he didnt understand that he became a different person after he was tempered

[indigo shale]

||well tbf, hermes did wipe his memorty of all we told him though||

[viscid monolith]

|| But then you in Ultima Thule he basically says he regrets nothing and isn't sorry ||

[swift kraken]

he has no frame of reference for it

[vague forum]

I fail to see how it's immersion breaking... ||then again, a lala spell caster throwing hands does sound hilarious, yet silly||

[gaunt star]

That's not the point

[tulip geyser]

||I wouldnt mind either, because we spent all of this expansion going "lol other species cant even not nihilism to death" but we have a whole lot of trash to clean up here ourselves||

[swift kraken]

||he says himself that he sucked at his job lmao||

[sand tiger]

||Zenos being put down by a lala hits extra hard, I bet||

[late aurora]

||Dynamis|| bitch, ||emotion = power||

[gaunt star]

Yeah, that guy is full of shit but still cool

[swift kraken]

||"youre better at saving our star than i was" gaming||

[indigo shale]

||if hythlodaues werent around, all im saying is emet selch would be their version of jack the ripper||

[viscid monolith]

Nah Emet's a fucking douche I hate him

[gaunt star]

Im going to make this an emote somehow

[swift kraken]

also hes a bit of a sore loser which is 100% in line with his character anyway

[gaunt star]

Well no ||Hydla or Azem||

[tulip geyser]

It would be a cute emote

[unreal gale]

Garlemald arc was great, and I would be so down for more of it. ||Alphinaud is going back because he recognizes that Quintus is right and that people will exploit their vulnerable state. Garlemald politics, please…||

[unreal gale]

Haha, ty. ‘Tis a cute punch.

[blazing edge]

I don't think you should ||say Quintin was right... ||

[waxen karma]

One of the more interesting things with 6.0 is all the wow angst/jokes/ect that is pretty common now. Hopefully it doesn't devolve into something unhealthy in the community

[swift kraken]

||lmao he was just grumpy, not completely unreedemable||

[indigo shale]

hes 100% unredeemable, he caused multiple omnicides, and will have a permannet affect on the source because of what he did with allag

[gaunt star]

Wait since ||Hydaelin is a Primal, can't we just summon her with creation magic again? ||

[swift kraken]

||elpis emet was just a grumpy guy with a soft spot||

[gaunt star]

B U R N. I T.

[vague forum]

top tier name

[unreal gale]

Oh, I don’t mean that all of his actions were justified. ||Just that Alphinaud agreed that Quintus was right about nations acting in their own benefit (rather than for purely selfless reasons).|| Mb if that wasn’t clear.

[swift kraken]

a different person from shb emet entirely

[gaunt star]

Yes and no.

[gaunt star]

He still was but a bit more of a dick after

[swift kraken]

because shb emet was warped by thousands of years of grief and tempering

[sand tiger]

so he read too many mangas?

[indigo shale]

i think the temepering is a lie they made up

[swift kraken]

thats a take

[indigo shale]

||based on what living way said||

[gaunt star]

It won't be the same "her" because ||Venat won't be here core||

[indigo shale]

||from something the size of zodiark, with creation magic in its purest form , you would only feel a small tug no tempering||

[gaunt star]

Wasn't ||tempering from the bad version if summoning tho? It was explained the summoning or whatever art was corrupted by ascians to use against the ppl of the shards and source||

[thorny flax]

||"I'm not a bad person. It's the tempering COPIUM " ||xD

[swift kraken]

||lets not forget creation magics were also warped||

[vague forum]

The thing is ||that Quintus made logically sound arguments, but in his logical arguments he forgot that he was talking about other humans who have the capacity for empathy as much as destruction.||

[indigo shale]

||tempering was something the ascians installed into primal summonings ||

[viscid monolith]

The tempering wasn't a lie but it is astounding that the writers fucked up a line badly that people are misunderstanding it so badly.

I am impressed

[vague forum]

||He saw everything as black or white and that was his unmaking, which makes sense considering how old (and stubborn) he is||

[swift kraken]

and dont forget to add the 2nd part of what they said

||tempering also had to do with converting people to their faith||

[vague forum]

I think they kinda messed it up with the tempering bit

[unreal gale]

||Nah, he didn’t disagree with that at all. He recognized that the twins were genuinely there to help. He was not a black-or-white thinker. He just wasn’t willing to take the risk that everyone (in Eorzea) shared that idealistic mindset.||

[swift kraken]

||its not unreasonable to assume that zodiark had some kind of quality to make people agree with why he was made so they resist less||

[waxen karma]

Maybe a meta commentary on our world where many of the older generation are unwilling to take responsibility for their actions and instead look to cast blame elsewhere

[vague forum]

||But it can still be explained by the fact that the ancients had a desire for "unity" and that could be the reason why the ascians' summoning magic had the tempering bit attached to it. Venat being the exception||

[swift kraken]

"something the size of zodiark" isnt a descriptor for zodiark himself, its just a frame of reference

[viscid monolith]

Zodiark tempered at least some of the ancients because we were told so by one of the people he tempered why would he lie?

[gaunt star]

Nah, I think the people were just so full of despair they didn't need tempering

All they wanted was survival

[swift kraken]

there was dissent about it

like, azem fucked off and venat disagreed

and they are pretty well respected

[gaunt star]

Well yeah obviously but if you remember correctly ||venat had an inner circle she chose, so it wasn't tempering but despair||

[swift kraken]

im sure they werent the only people to think that sacrificing 50% of the population might not be the move

[vague forum]

||Also yeah, it wasn't that Zodiark couldn't temper. It was more like something the size of zodiark wouldn't be able to temper like a primal would unless they had that implanted in their system via the creation/summoning magic||

[gaunt star]

Well Azem was charged with the defense of the star and a creation that large and powerful is definitely a threat to the star

[gaunt star]

Or because he didn't want to Thanos

[swift kraken]

i find it hard to believe that there wasnt more resistance to the plan, especially with so many people involved

[indigo shale]

hmm talking about the sacrifices, is it ever said why instead of loghrif they decided to sacrifce elidibus to be the heart, the youngest of the convocation, like what was the actual reason

[swift kraken]

we will find out!

[gaunt star]

There probably was, but do we actually know if the sacrificed even did so willingly?

[swift kraken]

||raid time||

[unreal gale]

When is Pandemonium coming out again? The normal stuff, I mean.

[swift kraken]

21

in 2 days

[thorny flax]

[unreal gale]

Ah, gotcha.

[gaunt star]

According to emet they did go willingly

[viscid monolith]

Ok guys I will tell you what Livingway said. She saif Zodiark wasn't summoned with the fervent desire to enthrall people.

[indigo shale]

||panda is pre convocation elidibus so i doubt we will find out||

[viscid monolith]

It was Elidibus' idea.

[swift kraken]

but i doubt we wont find out more about the person that he was

[gaunt star]

Problem is, would ||Hades know everything||

[indigo shale]

but why would they so willingly agree someone who seemed very impressionable to be sacrificed, seems a bit scummy

[gaunt star]

Well yes

[unreal gale]

Ya. They even showed us Hythodaelus walking away with Emet trying to convince him otherwise.

[swift kraken]

not only that, but we might tell him about the final days as well

[unreal gale]

(On a side note, Hythodaelus’s JP voice was obnoxious.)

[viscid monolith]

Probably wouldn't take no for an answer

Very similar to Alphinaud

That was the parallel they were drawing

[unreal gale]

Were they? They’ve done so many parallels that I’ve lost track. Elidibus wasn’t their strongest card.

[viscid monolith]

Ya because it was rushed

[blazing edge]

i want to be able to post images in #general-discussion

[tight latch]

[tulip geyser]

That chat goes 6000 mph anyhow

People wont even be able to appreciate your images

[swift kraken]

i dont see how it was a parallel to alphinaud specifically

[blazing edge]

True. Give only me the perms to post images and give everyone else except for me slowmode for 40s

[swift kraken]

the "too stubborn" thing is something ||every single scion has||

[gaunt star]

Yeah stubborn enough to ||spam heal you to consciousness||

[viscid monolith]

|| Young naive prodigy joins organization to bring salvation to the star ||

[lean dock]

Anyone know the song name for ||radz at han||? All i can find on yt is the post msq version, but I want the melancholy one during msq

[gaunt star]

Here you go. https://youtu.be/NUYvbT6vTPs

Vibin

[lean dock]

lol

[gaunt star]

Me if Bard could play music during raids

Tfw the raid wipes because people were too busy vibing to the BRD

[slender siren]

[marsh osprey]

does the heavensward section from first full ew trailer play in any part of ew?

[fluid basalt]

the whole footfalls song is played in the game

sadly they are alll just one song... instead of actually full version of the stormblood/song of hope parts

[marsh osprey]

sad

[narrow ember]

They could always make a full version of those in the future patches

[short edge]

Hope we get the band version of flow in the future

[chilly bluff]

Yes but spoilers need to be tagged iirc

[fluid basalt]

there's an all spoilers allowed thread if you want free for all

[blazing edge]

i got him to level 60 and this is all i get

cant believe this

[fluid basalt]

what were you expecting?

[main umbra]

@blazing edge what that even mean the 2 thing

[blazing edge]

Squadron thing

Offensive Tactic Mastery grants them bonkers buffs

[fluid basalt]

DPS should go offensive tactic yeah

[mystic grail]

But can they do level 80 quests

[blazing edge]

They can only do up to level 60 dungeons

[vocal bear]

||So, who knew this was a thing?||

[regal lantern]

Hey how do I use “Plentiful Harvest” by Reaper? Like where’s my immortal sacrifice stack?

[urban phoenix]

yes

you use arcane circle first and then plentiful harvest

[regal lantern]

Ohh

[urban phoenix]

btw.|| after all the revelations about the omnicrons and the sigmascape. am i the only one who pities omega? the poor thing =(||

perfect rotation stuff comes up in savage i guess you should check the balance for that

[humble heron]

||i would say the omicrons in general are somewhat pitiable. They didnt start out as warlords, they became that way because they thought it was the only way to survive||

[urban phoenix]

also with the raid...||..in the end omega evolved back to its original state no? Xd human||

[urban phoenix]

yeah from ||the conquered to the conqueror. thats why i said the garleans are etherys omnicron version in a way.||

[indigo shale]

||why do you feel pitiful for the omicrons and/or omega, but not the garleans, who you want to leave to rot||

[humble heron]

||i pity the people of garlemald, but in a different way. I think its fair to say the people of garlemald were brainwashed by emet selch and the rest of the imperial line to believe a certain kind of thought, and didnt really have the will to resist outside of the populares, which lead to the conquest nature. So, i pity garlemald people for never being able to know the truth. But i pity the omicrons for making a decision that would uproot their entire civilization in order to further their own existence||

[urban phoenix]

eh i dont pity the garleans. ||yes they where hurt sure but they spread more pain and agony than they themself got. they are an example of "i know what i do is wrong....but these people hurt my people 700 years ago so they deserve it" thinking which is just yeah nah. cant build any empathy with em.||

||doesnt makes the eradication of their entire nation in ew with one snap any less brutal though. holy shit thats dark||

[indigo shale]

||well its a lot more than that, but if you want to ignore all we learnt go ahead ||

||i dont get how you can feel pitiful for omega, yet curse the garleans, that makes 0 sense as omega is way worse then any garlean could hope to be, as in the fucker werent even going to subjucate us as the garleans would, the stupid robot would go for total anhiliation||

[urban phoenix]

yes i know ||there is the influence of emet and the brainwashing etc. but we seen that there are people who thought better, with the few populares who fought against the brutal handling. but these people where surpressed at every front or used to trick people see asahi with yotsuyu. so it leaves the impression that the majority didnt want to listen to the populares who sought more peaceful means||

eh i pity omega probably because it was all alone...

[indigo shale]

omega deserves no pity, it was here to genocide the star

[urban phoenix]

also its not a stupid robot as we can see it had feelings

[indigo shale]

feelings != smart though

[urban phoenix]

makes me wonder....we know that we use dynamis when using the limitbreak. how does dynamis manifest through us in cutscenes....

[humble heron]

I can assure you I have feelings and I am as dumb as a rock also tag spoilers

[urban phoenix]

did we use dynamis to sway our enemies? Xd

[main umbra]

We use ||dynamis|| to create a shield around our enemies brains making them stupid.

[humble heron]

@urban phoenix you should tag spoilers for certain terms

[urban phoenix]

will do

[willow zodiac]

Damn I know the game is popular and all. But 20min on this number and not changing is just too much

[coarse meadow]

Hey can we call pandemonium savage Ps1, Ps2, etc

[steep snow]

Is endwalker MSQ considered the best? To me it is quite good and only up to 84 quests

[coarse meadow]

Do you mean you’ve only gotten up to 84

Or you think it’s only good up till then

[steep snow]

Level 84 quests

that's as far as I've gotten

[coarse meadow]

Ah

Don’t worry

It’s going to get a lot better

I actually think 83-84 is the break point. My opinion is from 80-84/5 ShB had the better world building and build up. Post 85 EW beats it by a mile in story beats

[steep snow]

It's intense. Music choices are perfect. The story is not predictable so far at least

[coarse meadow]

Don’t worry

It gets less predictable lol

[steep snow]

lol

[lean ore]

Nice

[steep snow]

The piano only scores are really good. but that's probabaly just me.

[vocal bear]

HAHAHAHA I concure.

[coarse meadow]

Lmao 100% disagree that it’s only you

They didn’t sell vinyls of this for no reason

[thorny flax]

the new summoner is so good holy shit

I feel like a truck during trash in dungeons.

and so much mobility

[coarse meadow]

Apparently that’s a controversial opinion lol

Dungeons good, raids are apparently 2 button mashers.

[half phoenix]

New SMN is nice. Not quite sure how I feel about new RDM, or at least new Acceleration and the mana gains from spells....

[lean ore]

smn needs some potency buffs tbh

otherwise its pog

[thorny flax]

I don't know. I did decent dmg with my SMN in Shadowbringers and I don't feel like the current version feels worse to play. The old one had so much dogshit stuff bc of the pet ai

[half phoenix]

Acceleration spells should be giving dualcast if you don’t have it already, and i feel like they cut the mana gain a little too much, like it feels like t takes longer to reach the full melee combo than it did before

[thorny flax]

It's also more accessible for new players because it's less convoluted

[gaunt star]

My favorite character sealed my preference for EW when she came out of the sky and one-shot that shark.

[lean ore]

man scholar feels so bloatted

only 1 space in hotbars xd

[thorny flax]

I love how people memed about the SCH movement speed and now it's one of the most useful skills btw

[half phoenix]

Yea, SCH NEEDS some bloat removed

[lean ore]

SCH was fine to begin with, ppl just didnt find em 'flashy' enough

[gaunt star]

Don't worry, they'll nerf it

They always do

Eventually

[half phoenix]

Remove one of the fairies if they’re both still on your bar, they both do the same thing so only one needs to exist

[gaunt star]

No.

[lean ore]

i have since they removed their unique effects

i only keep the good one aka Eos

[gaunt star]

Turn selene into Feo UL

[jolly sierra]

summon fairy isnt even on my main hotbars

i click em

wait slowmode off

[gaunt star]

Yes

[humble heron]

riot

[jolly sierra]

why would i lol

slowmode being off is much more conducive to how i normally type

[humble heron]

Agreed

[half phoenix]

They’re probably going to cut a lot from SCH, PLD, SAM and at this point FSH in 7.0. Can’t think of any other classes suffering this badly from bloat

[gaunt star]

I desperately want Titania added to SCH since SMN gets literal primals now

[jolly sierra]

alternatively just type /ac "Summon Eos"

[lean ore]

its still the basic primals xd

but they definitely got what they need to add other primals now too xd

[gaunt star]

||Eden|| primals when?

[half phoenix]

SMN isn’t getting more primals. We might get Alexander Trance

[lean ore]

you got the basic ones and then the super primals like bahamut and phoenix

[jolly sierra]

honestly would be cool if there were 3 primals for st and 3 for aoe

[lean ore]

what is alexander trance even going to do xd

[gaunt star]

Inb4 shinryu trance

[half phoenix]

.... they all do AoE regardless

[jolly sierra]

applies stop on the entire instance

[gaunt star]

[lean ore]

applies stun like holy kekw

[jolly sierra]

oh i know

[lean ore]

or blue mage freeze but on smn

[jolly sierra]

bahamut astral aspected primals phoenix umbral aspected primals

[lean ore]

|| Endsinger || summon when

[half phoenix]

Well Bahamut is the damage trance, Phoenix is the healing trance. Alexander would be the defense trance 😛

[jolly sierra]

i just want levi ramuh and shiva ok

[lean ore]

makes all enemies sad :v

[gaunt star]

I can see that

Sad 3.0 titan egi noises

[half phoenix]

Or a ||Zodiark and/or Hydaelyn|| trance

[gaunt star]

Lmao

Theres no way

[jolly sierra]

that feels like it wouldnt work with the lore but i cant put my finger on why

[thorny flax]

Shiva trance where astral flow turns into a 1200 potency aoe that freezes all enemies like the BLU skills does

[gaunt star]

^^^

[lean ore]

same could have been said about phoenix

but we are bathed in his aether

[gaunt star]

True