retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[pulsar current]

Which ones?

[fast warren]

Theyre not going to add new jobs to old relics.

[severe brook]

i meant like the Diablo Armament

[maiden lodge]

Lance. I love ya bud. But the counterargument against 'using the historical voice' is not 'it's past events/interviews.'

[crystal arrow]

That's not what they meant.

[fast warren]

Oh, fair

[crystal arrow]

That's what.... historical voice is.... talking about past events....

[severe brook]

because they said there might be other stuff like Diablo buried under that region

[brisk quail]

This is all retrospective

[fast warren]

Diablo armament is a TO reference though

[brisk quail]

All of it.

What happened. Where are they now. What they did or have done.

[crystal arrow]

Yes but in its notes it outright says there may be other weapons like it buried in Zadnor

[severe brook]

oh is it? i thought it was meant to be an original thing that vaguely resembled Vegnagun

[viscid monolith]

Dis this entire conversation is about how the Noah entry is talking about an event that has not yet happened. I asked you that. I asked if this book is talking about an event that has not yet happened.

[fast warren]

https://ogrebattlesaga.fandom.com/wiki/Diablo

[maiden lodge]

A reminder as well that the narrator for MSQ as of 5.3 has been speaking of the Final Days 2.0 as 'something in the past'

[brisk quail]

It won't happen

[severe brook]

huh well the more you know

[brisk quail]

You won't see it happen.

[maiden lodge]

Yes. The game is in a framed narrative.

[brisk quail]

The page says this happens cuz Bozja is in a time bubble

[maiden lodge]

Not Bozja, the entire game.

[severe brook]

"We have Diablo Armament at home"
Diablo Armament at home:

[brisk quail]

It's not gonna progress any further. So the. Book/pages frame it as a past event and historical moment

Which means yes. This event is in the past
Yes the pages are all written in the future.

[viscid monolith]

Ok ok. This I get. This is the end of Bozja and we won't see these characters anymore.

[fast warren]

But yeah they say a lot of things to put threads for possible future content. It could happen or it couldn't.

[severe brook]

uh wait

Rashidi used the power of the Black Diamond to summon Diablo at the temple but the Xenobian Rebellion defeated Diablo before he could fully manifest his power.
uh
The Black Diamond is the thirteenth stone of the zodiac. It contains the essence of the thirteenth disciple, Duruda, which rivals the power of the other twelve zodiac stones. It was given to Rashidi by the angel Mizal. Rashidi used it to sign a contract with the demon Galf and resurrect the dark god Diablo.
oh no not again

[brisk quail]

Some characters are like... done. Like the red mage teacher

His whole lore block ends with he was under thrall of Save the queen, sucks to suck bitch

[maiden lodge]

The other thing, Lance, is you've forgotten 5.3's final narration. G'raha Tia talking about how, at this point in the story being told, the heroes were going to confront the final fate of the planet.

[torn plover]

yes this is my understanding as well, i am just saying the execution is really shoddy honestly going from the final cutscenes to a huge info dump in a codex. i'm just disappointed is all, i wouldve even been fine hearing about these events from fran later down the line. that it happens offscreen is not the problem here

[maiden lodge]

The story is told in past tense.

[crystal arrow]

Speak of the devil, Diablo armament's ost got posted to yt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zFy9E01aVU

[severe brook]

i suppose the diablo armament really is a fitting counterpart to the Ultima Weapon, huh

[severe brook]

wouldn't be surprised if that one got taken down, since it doesn't show the fight

i'll just wait for Spoon and/or Mekkah

[maiden lodge]

Remember when FFX turned out to be Tidus talking to his friends about FFX and the journey they had taken? FFX is a framed narrative.
Remember when Dragon Age 2 was a story told by Verrick? Framed narrative.
Heavensward, Stormblood, and Shadowbringers? Framed narrative.

[crystal arrow]

it's a banger, for sure

[gaunt star]

Wait the red mage teacher dies in bozja??

[brisk quail]

Doesn't die...

[maiden lodge]

Unknown, Lovro's fate is not yet determined.

[brisk quail]

He's tempered by Save the queen. So yeah basically dead

[viscid monolith]

There was an enemy Red Mage. Not our teacher.

[maiden lodge]

But unchange.

[gaunt star]

Ah ok

[maiden lodge]

Yeah Lovro was taught by Lambert.

[crystal arrow]

No he's not. He gets taken into custody by the resistance after a Z3 skirmish, presumably to be given the tempering cure.

[brisk quail]

Yeah he's like in stage 1 of Temper sickness

[viscid monolith]

Ah so he's like a sibling student

[maiden lodge]

Lovro became a secret bozjan spy, but got tempered by Save the Queen. But he's still saveable and his student, an untempered Blade, is trying to rescue him

[viscid monolith]

By the way what Skirmish does Obero show up in?

[brisk quail]

Any of them with Shikigami

Or the pupper master dude

[viscid monolith]

Ah. I couldn't see him through all the effects

[crystal arrow]

Gilbrisbert or the onmyoji ones - he also randomly shows up in the pre-dalriada cutscene

[brisk quail]

He's very unimportant tbh

[viscid monolith]

I'm happy they brought him back. He's one of my favorite job quest characters

[maiden lodge]

No, he's not a Crimson Duelist. He was taught by Lambert for the empire. Lovro took those teachings and decided to make an Othardi school of red magic that creates subversive dissidents against the empire, in secret.

[brisk quail]

He's just there.

But he won't die.

[gaunt star]

p sure you bring him in at the end of his last skirmish and basically prep him for untempering

[crystal arrow]

^ yeah like... literally what happens

[gaunt star]

He makes some comment about his flame dying down which is a prereq for the process

[brisk quail]

Yeah. But his fate is left up to chance still since the book doesn't elaborate

[gloomy shale]

Is chainspell even worth taking?

[brisk quail]

FUCK YEAH IT IS

[maiden lodge]

For BLM or RDM? VERY YES.

[brisk quail]

It's primo for healers or evwn ordained

[crystal arrow]

For whm, definitely good

[brisk quail]

BLM go nyoom

[gloomy shale]

what's the build for whm then?

[viscid monolith]

Lambert is our teach right? And he taught Lovro too. That's what I mean by sibling student.

[gloomy shale]

ordained chainspell and what

[brisk quail]

Ordained + chain spell

[gaunt star]

incidentally props to the new actions making more than just skirmisher or pure essence viable on dps

[crystal arrow]

Lambert's the vampire dude who killed the crimson duelists

[viscid monolith]

Ooooh

[gaunt star]

You can run beast+assassinate on melee and run train on delebrum

[maiden lodge]

Lambert is not... at all... our teacher. X'rhun Tia is. Lambert was the traitor that got the Crimson Duelists wiped out.

[viscid monolith]

I had the names mixed up. Who was our teacher again?

I'm bad with names you guys know this

[fast warren]

Our RDM teacher is X'ruhn

[maiden lodge]

Lambert was the guy making the mind-blanked assassins, such as Arya, the Nightkin

[gloomy shale]

chainspell is a lot of fire IV's right?

[maiden lodge]

ALL the Fire IVs

It's triplecast forever.

[viscid monolith]

!action Lost Chainspell

[lusty shadow]

**Lost Chainspell** : lvl 0 WHM BLM SMN SCH AST RDM (90.0 second cooldown)(Instant cast time)

Temporarily eliminates cast time for all spells.
Duration: 30s
Additional Effect: Magic Burst
Magic Burst Effect: Increases spell damage by 45% while increasing MP cost
Duration: 30s
Spirit of the Ordained Effect: Raises Magic Burst spell damage increase to 100% and nullifies additional MP cost
Spirit of the Watcher Effect: Lost Chainspell duration is extended to 90s
Can only be executed while in combat.

Powered by XIVAPI

[brisk quail]

Chainspell is...

Instant cast + Damage up + Mana cost up

Or

Longer duration + Better damage up for Ordained

[fast warren]

Chainspell is RDM 2hour

[maiden lodge]

For RDM, it's 'make Verflare/holy and Scorch hit very hard and now your rotation is Verthunder/Veraero spam for a while'

[viscid monolith]

Wow so with Spirit of the Ordained you just get 30 seconds of Fire 4

[gloomy shale]

but does chainspell ordained beat the aetherweaver or profane?

[brisk quail]

For whm it's fast glare

[maiden lodge]

No it's better damage and no mp penalty for ordained.
100% uptime is Watcher

[maiden lodge]

It's Glare while moving, you don't glare faster.

[brisk quail]

Watcher is the one that synergizes with Ether kit right?

[gaunt star]

Is using a shield as a whm still "Bis" for Bozja?

[brisk quail]

Aka Flare spam?

[maiden lodge]

Well, no, it means 30 seconds of Triplecast.

Which lowers the casting time of those Fire 4s, you still have to do MP things

[brisk quail]

Chain spell makes death spam easier

[timid solstice]

So which L70 dungeon would be the fastest as blu? Would it be the burn? First boss can be missiles but mist dragon

[brisk quail]

Allows you to re-apply death by going to holster faster

[fast warren]

Fire IV cast time goes over the GCD so it's definitely faster F4s

[brisk quail]

Cuz you can,

Death holster insta death, holster, insta death

[maiden lodge]

Which means you go through your fire phase 1.8 seconds faster. Which is good.

However. RDM---Chainspell is op on RDM.

[brisk quail]

Idk how I feel about assasinate though

I feel like it should have that bonus effect on guardian too

[fast warren]

oh, interesting. Pagaga's storyline gives some more background lore to The Peaks a rank

[gaunt star]

So which CE is the new Red Comet? So far the Pazuzu one has been the most difficult for me because of the in and out mech plus all the aoe's

[fast warren]

Belias

[vivid notch]

man I hate deterministic bullshit. That Rank 18 cutscene in Zadnor made me want to skip all the other Zadnor cutscenes lmao

[brisk quail]

Belias

[vivid notch]

I don't even want to really save Mikoto, I just want to prove her stupid determinism wrong

[fast warren]

And just like Red Comet, you can reflect almost all of the Belias abilities

[gaunt star]

I hate the fact that Mikoto refuses to tell anyone what she sees in her visions even when everyone already knows what happened to her she's like "Oh it's just a headache lol"

[fast warren]

Mikoto channeling chapter 1 shulk

She's really feeling it

[brisk quail]

I mean we don't see her die

[vivid notch]

I mean, it's the only way for the dumbass determinism to work, because if anything changed well that's her deterministic views proven wrong lmao

what pisses me off is the WoL going with it. I guess they just don't give a shit

[brisk quail]

Also.

Relevant
https://youtu.be/z08Vnl5GSrM

[tough fern]

I like how they retconned Mikoto's age

[vivid notch]

"yeah whatever if you fall to your death and that could be easily prevented by I dunno, telling anyoner or maybe me being there or like any of thirty other solutions"

[tough fern]

Going from 29 to 24-

[vivid notch]

but that might just be me with my hateboner for determinism

[viscid monolith]

Wait I just realized why spam Fire 4 when you can just spam Despair?

[fast warren]

because rip MP

[odd yoke]

Just auto ether 5head

And or exliers

[viscid monolith]

Wait I just realized it says nullifies additional MP cost. I thought it nullified all mp cost.

[vivid notch]

even from a deterministic point of view it makes no sense for her (or the WoL) to not tell anyone. Like, even if that can't be changed (it totally can), you could at least warn people so that they are ready to catch her after she falls or some shit

[tough fern]

Despair has a slower cast time and consumes more MP

[pulsar current]

BLM but with no GCD

[vivid notch]

anyway fuck determinism

[viscid monolith]

I thought it made all spells free, my bad.

[maiden lodge]

It does not nullify any mp cost

[gaunt star]

"What has been seen cannot be changed" uhh yes it can, dont get on the airship and we'll think of a different way to do what we were going to do with the airship

[brisk quail]

It nullifies the extra mp cost

[viscid monolith]

Ya I just reread it. I see now

[maiden lodge]

No, because it just means that happens at a later time.

[viscid monolith]

The visions always come true

[brisk quail]

Kill mikoto before she can get on an airship

[gaunt star]

[brisk quail]

Big brain

Just execute her then she can't fall

[maiden lodge]

Mikoto also doesn't trust her visions in the sense that she knows stuff can happen she doesn't see, so she considers them useless.

[brisk quail]

sorry mikoto. This is for your own good

[tough fern]

So is Mikoto dead now or-

[gaunt star]

I hate how she plays it off as a headache when literally everyone knows it's not a headache

[viscid monolith]

This is a classic prophecy trope. You try to avoid the vision but your attempts to avoid it cause the tragedy to happen.

[vivid notch]

again, fuck determinism

[brisk quail]

I mean her visions are pretty useless.

[vivid notch]

determinism is objectively wrong, especially here

[brisk quail]

It's just heres what happens minus the big plot twist

[viscid monolith]

It's not though she's seeing the actual future

[brisk quail]

It's like seeing a picture of luke holding onto a piece of metal as vader yells at him

ah yes. He's holding on for dear life and he falls. Mmhm

[vivid notch]

or I don't know tie the fucking barrels down (I think it's a barrel that knocks her over? but I don't really remember lmao) or FUCKING TELL SOMEONE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO FALL SO THAT THEY CAN CATCH YOU BEFORE YOU GO OVERBOARD YOU DUMB AU'RA

[brisk quail]

Then you hear the audio and go oooooh alright

[tough fern]

Wouldn't mind her showing up in the msq for EW since she was only visiting again from Sharlayan to help with Bojza

[vivid notch]

I might be a little ticked off, determinism does that to me

[gaunt star]

Actually yeah, if she's already going to fall have us be prepared for it instead of saying "It's ok if I die lol"

[vivid notch]

that's not what happens here lmao

[maiden lodge]

She. Sees. Herself. Falling. The falling therefore has to happen. If you prevent her falling there, that means that that just happensed somewhere else.

[viscid monolith]

It's what would happen

[gaunt star]

But have someone at the bottom waiting to catch her then

[vivid notch]

bullshit. If anything is different the vision is proven wrong, even if the Enterprise has a different coat of paint

[brisk quail]

It doesn't show her hitting the ground and dying or anything. She's just falling

[maiden lodge]

She also sees that doesn't happen.

[maiden lodge]

Her version of the Echo never goes wrong.

[vivid notch]

yeah that's bullshit

[brisk quail]

The most it showed is us and white tiger look up

Like fuuuck, i hope someone catches her

[vivid notch]

okay to make it clear so I'm not saying that it's bullshit in canon

[gaunt star]

But we as players know she'll be fine so it doesn't make it impactful for me

[vivid notch]

it's bullshit in that you need to make bad writing to justify this dumb decision of determinism

[maiden lodge]

Everyone is too far away at the time to do that though, that's also literally said

[viscid monolith]

The entire implication here is that she's already tried stopping it and exactly what I said is what happened. It's not determinism it's just a fact of how her power works.

[maiden lodge]

Her vision includes the fact that 'everyone is too busy or far away to help'

[brisk quail]

You mean everyone she'd expect to help

[maiden lodge]

It happens. It has to happen. There's no way around that.

[viscid monolith]

It's not bad writing just because you have this weird hate for this particular philosophy.

[vivid notch]

that gets solved by telling someone

[gaunt star]

But she should still tell people at the very least like, "Hey this will happen so just be careful if I'm not around by the end of this"

[maiden lodge]

Except in her vision it happens at a time when no one can help

You tell people. They're ready for it. Guardrails are put up. She doesn't fall.

[vivid notch]

like, that's what I fucking mean, the WoL needs to not tell anyone or even try to interfere for that to happen

[maiden lodge]

Except now she still has a future where she falls and no one can help them

[vivid notch]

fucking exactly

[maiden lodge]

You don't understand that part of her Echo.

[gaunt star]

Instead of falling out of an airship she falls out of bed

[maiden lodge]

You can't prevent it. Only forstall it.

Mikoto knows this.

[vivid notch]

forestall long enough and you prevent it lmao

[viscid monolith]

If they put up guard rails they'll just get blown off in an event that happens before vision.

[gaunt star]

From now on Mikoto has to sit in the seat with 10 belts and surrounded by guardrails at all time

[vivid notch]

no it won't

[maiden lodge]

Or it happens somewhen else

[vivid notch]

also no it doesn't

[viscid monolith]

Yes it will. Because in her vision she falls.

[forest magnet]

The vision always happens.

[maiden lodge]

'no it doesn't happen' is literally not an option Mikoto has

[vivid notch]

hell it isn't

[maiden lodge]

Mikoto cannot prevent it.

[vivid notch]

yes she can she just needs to tell people

[gaunt star]

Mikoto cant but plot device 3000 can

[forest magnet]

She's not fucking Shulk she can't change the future she sees in the vision.

[viscid monolith]

Anime hope isn't going to stop her perfect future vision from coming true

[vivid notch]

or hell, the WoL needs to tell people. But I guess the WoL just doesn't give a shit

[brisk quail]

I'm really feeling it

[maiden lodge]

That's why she doesn't tell anyone, because if she falls, she falls, she knows that it can't be prevented, so she accepts it, and confronts it. And Mikoto was right.

[vivid notch]

???

[forest magnet]

This is like Minority Report, if you've watched it.

[maiden lodge]

There's no ???. You play the story, you find out she was right about it.

[vivid notch]

She sees the future. She thinks it can't be changed. She doesn't try to change it. The future happens.

[viscid monolith]

She knows it can't be changed

[forest magnet]

You realize there's been examples where she says she tries to change it but it doesn't work.

[vivid notch]

of course she was right, that's like saying that you'll meet your future love in a day

it's right by default

[barren vale]

Pretty sure she tried that during the Ivalice quest line

[maiden lodge]

She knows it can't be changed. She knows this, because she's tried to in the past. She's a Sharlayan Aetherologist-she experimented. She can't change it, and that's why she feels it's useless.

[vivid notch]

and the WoL doesn't try because...?

[viscid monolith]

That doesn't make sense.

[vivid notch]

because fuck Mikoto I guess lmao

[shrewd cypress]

[nocturne void]

doesn't minority report specifically rebuke predestination?

[vivid notch]

not really

[viscid monolith]

Go away Locke no trolling

[forest magnet]

At the end it does.

[maiden lodge]

Because we know it can't be changed too, and it's her place to tell people, and we respect her wishes.

[barren vale]

Oi, you be nice to our precious dragon child.

[nocturne void]

the book not the movie

[fast warren]

Mikoto needs a Monado.

[vivid notch]

bullshit we do

[viscid monolith]

[forest magnet]

The movie does too.

[vivid notch]

I sure as fuck don't, determinism is for losers

[heady shadow]

Au ra arent dragons.........

[maiden lodge]

You're arguing that the story is wrong about the story's own premises.

[gaunt star]

This is why we kill Mikoto so her vision can't happen

[vivid notch]

I'm arguing that the story is badly written

[sage thicket]

Yo, has anyone else noticed voidsent in the overworld at all? One of my friends (in HW content) posted this earlier.

[vivid notch]

Because someone decided that putting determinism in was a good idea

[forest magnet]

Just because you disagree with determinism doesn't make it bad.

[nocturne void]

I mean, the movie is just "You suck ass at interpretation"

[barren vale]

I haven't noticed any

[maiden lodge]

But she was right. Not telling people lead exactly to the conclusion it did. So it's hard to claim Mikoto is wrong when at the end she is not wrong.

[shrewd cypress]

I mean they did something similar in terms of time fuckery in the Alexander raids. They’re tropes that are done well in the game

[fast warren]

This was a FATE in 2.0 that was replaced by the beast tribe fate. So instead of getting rid of it, the boss of the fate kills the voidsent

[forest magnet]

It's not like the game as a whole operates on determinism anyway (Namazu quests)

[shrewd cypress]

Having her visions not be preventable then magically preventable would be bad writing and inconsistent

[viscid monolith]

That's like an atheist arguing a story is badly written because the main character is devout in their faith.

[nocturne void]

The book goes "two of the three reports are always going to be wrong depending on the act of you getting the report"

[maiden lodge]

squints

[fast warren]

It's not new, just deprecated 2.0 content

[vivid notch]

yeah it's almost like someone should've told people, like I dunno, the fucking WoL

[viscid monolith]

You don't agree with whatever philosophy. Your gripe is with that. It doesn't make the story bad.

[maiden lodge]

Why? It changes nothing.

[sage thicket]

Ahhhh, that would make sense. Here I got all excited lol. Though I'd imagine they'd check for 'finished msq' markers if it were a thing

[vivid notch]

Like, for determinism to work it has to be vague. You can't have a vision of the future that can't be changed, it NEEDS to be vague. As shown by the people who popularized determinism, the ancient greeks.

Oedipus Rex wouldn't work if Laius had seen a vision of the future, it had to be a prophecy

[maiden lodge]

Did you finish that part of the story and see how it got resolved?

[vivid notch]

yeah it does, because then it's not a deterministic story anymore lmao, the WoL tells people, they change things around and voilá future doesn't happen, not deterministic

[maiden lodge]

but it IS a deterministic story.

[fast warren]

Yeah I 2.0 you straight up fought the Voidsent. They had the kobold kill it when they added the kobold quests

[vivid notch]

I don't really care how it gets resolved, my problem is with determinism lmao

[thorn pecan]

|| YO FRAAAAAAAAAAAAN|| last zandor story

[nocturne void]

lol, determinism

[maiden lodge]

You're making criticisms of a story that involve its resolution but you clearly have not seen how that resolves.

[vivid notch]

and that makes it bad because it needs to make the characters way dumber (or just plain uncaring) for it to work, because that's the only way for a deterministic story to work (except in the case of a vague prophecy, like the greeks did)

[maiden lodge]

You can't criticise how a deterministic story resolves if you have no fucking clue how it resolves.

[thorn pecan]

Are spoilers allowed in this channel or only discussion ?

[maiden lodge]

Spoilers are allowed.

[viscid monolith]

Spoil away

[vivid notch]

she gets saved by someone from off screen or dies, either of that doesn't matter lmao

[thorn pecan]

Bruh Fran has the best ass ever

[vivid notch]

"I wish Mikoto lived" is not the point here

[fast warren]

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Spandy_Balidet

Here is the fate itself

[nocturne void]

fran having the best ass is not a spoiler

[maiden lodge]

The point is that she accepts it because fighting it is futile.

[viscid monolith]

We already know the Echo is infallible. That's why we don't question it.

[nocturne void]

It's truth

[thorn pecan]

Fran being in the game is a spoiler!

[vivid notch]

maybe that's your point, not mine (still wrong but that's besides my point)

[nocturne void]

She was in return to Ivalice

[forest magnet]

Well I just got spoiled that Mikoto apparently dies

[maiden lodge]

She knows it's futile, and the story is not about the futility. So having the WoL going around telling people, only for it to happen anyways, isn't the narrative Matsuno is trying to tell here.

[viscid monolith]

It's like asking if we can trust out visions of the past. We just do.

[thorn pecan]

Also, i choose to nod , did that decision change the outcme i dont get it

[maiden lodge]

You got spoiled that Mikoto has a vision of her own death.... by Mikoto herself, calm down son.

[viscid monolith]

They're always right. It's just how the echo works.

[fast warren]

Fran has been in game since Orbonne, its not really a spoiler

[nocturne void]

Except for some reason with Kefka

who can fool the echo

[vivid notch]

not really. It wouldn't be about the futility anyway, it'd not be deterministic because then her vision would be proven wrong

[thorn pecan]

I dont see any change, Mikoto fell and got saved if i chose to say "its true" instead of nod would something else happened ?

[maiden lodge]

Telegraphs aren't the echo

[fast warren]

This entire quest chain requires Orbonne so Fran appearing isn't a spoiler, its what's expected

[rocky path]

best place to farm the raw emotions for the last relic step?

[vivid notch]

also funfact, you can prove her vision wrong anyway: you can change jobs in between the quests

[maiden lodge]

But the story is saying her visions ARE deterministic. And it's about dealing with that certainty.

[vivid notch]

so that she sees you as dressed one way, but when the moment happens, you are dressed differently

[thorn pecan]

Wait Fran appeared before ?

[unborn shadow]

I take it that HoH doesn't have 100% chance to drop relic mats, yes?

[fast warren]

...yes?

[forest magnet]

Maybe she stuffs a parachute...somewhere in her dress.

[nocturne void]

It's like that story about Death in Arabia

[vivid notch]

that's my point, I'm saying that it being about determinism and dealing with the consequences of an unavoidable fate makes the story worse because for it to work the characters need to either not give a shit, be dumbasses or both

[fast warren]

Like she appears in the Orbonne cutscenes but she also appears in the instance itself, before the first boss. And you couldn't miss it because those cutscenes and instance is required to do Bozja

[brisk quail]

Maybe she pulls a lady iceheart and primals during the fall

[nocturne void]

Where the guy gets spooked by death in a market, crosses half the country, then dies when he arrives and death tells him he was suprised that he was there, hence why he appears

[vivid notch]

in this case, the WoL doesn't give a shit and Mikoto is a dumbass so best of both worlds

[maiden lodge]

But... Mikoto does give a shit.

[vivid notch]

yeah she is the dumbass in this case, the one who doesn't give a shit is the WoL

You could argue that the vision she has is much vaguer than what is shown and what is shown is just for the player, sure

[maiden lodge]

She knows no one can save her. What would telling anyone accomplish?

[vivid notch]

that's the part where she is being a dumbass yeah

again, Mikoto is the dumbass, WoL is the one who doesn't give a shit. If WoL gave a shit they'd have told someone

[maiden lodge]

How? She knows everyone is too busy to save her. And what everyone is doing at that point is not something they can put off.

[nocturne void]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appointment_in_Samarra here we go

[brisk quail]

Have you played the remainder of the quests?

[vivid notch]

or done something themselves instead of going "oh you are going to fall to presumably your death? cool. Anyway, got shit to do, byeeeeee"

[maiden lodge]

The WoL can't do anything to save her either. Which part of 'Telling people won't change what happens' do you not get?

[nocturne void]

A merchant in Baghdad sends his servant to the marketplace for provisions. Soon afterwards, the servant comes home white and trembling and tells him that in the marketplace, he was jostled by a woman, whom he recognized as Death, who made a threatening gesture. Borrowing the merchant’s horse, he flees at great speed to Samarra, a distance of about 75 miles (125 km), where he believes Death will not find him. The merchant then goes to the marketplace and finds Death, and asks why she made the threatening gesture to his servant. She replies, “That was not a threatening gesture, it was only a start of surprise. I was astonished to see him in Baghdad, for I have an appointment with him tonight in Samarra.”

[brisk quail]

Like have you played it to completion? Or did you just do the level 18 quest and start bitching?

[fast warren]

I think they mentioned they did the level 18 quest and started bitching

[brisk quail]

Beacuse you're missing ALOT if you did

And in that case you're the big dumbass here

[vivid notch]

because as I said before, it wouldn't happen. The story wouldn't be deterministic. The future would be changed and that'd be that

[maiden lodge]

Like I like that you're pretending that people knowing means they can do anything when the heckin WoL knew and couldn't do anything because the alternative was The Dalraida destroying the resistance with its big honkin magic gun

[nocturne void]

How do you know it would change

[vivid notch]

how it ends doesn't matter here, "Mikoto lived died" is not the point

[brisk quail]

Because in the level (22) quest the WoL ||spills the beans||

[vivid notch]

because her vision is very specific. If anything changes, even slightly, then that's the vision proven wrong. If a small thing is changed, anything can change

[brisk quail]

And guess what?

||IT DOESN'T CHANGE||

[maiden lodge]

But. We. Already. Know. They. Always. Come. True.

[vivid notch]

as I said before, again, you can literally prove the deterministic vision wrong by choosing different jobs

[maiden lodge]

Her vision was tested.

[nocturne void]

job changes are not gameplay relevant

[vivid notch]

like you can do that in the game

[brisk quail]

Did you rewatch the cutscene after changing jobs?

[nocturne void]

That's meta

[brisk quail]

That's how it works you know.

[sage thicket]

Just some two cents: it makes perfect sense for anything in the game to be deterministic because the game itself is determined. The illusion of choice is that you could say, change jobs, but ultimately xyz will still happen because the game requires it to happen.

[vivid notch]

oh boy can't wait to see how they justify that

that's going to be fuuuuun

[nocturne void]

that's like saying I can change the vision by fantasiaing

[vivid notch]

her visions are never wrong

[fast warren]

I think you need to just play the content, getting to 25 takes like two lockouts

[nocturne void]

spend 10 dollars and save mikoto

[vivid notch]

if they are wrong, well. They are wrong innit.

[fast warren]

Got to 21 in literally a single lockout.

[maiden lodge]

Guess what. You can't save Xeven either.

[vivid notch]

who?

[maiden lodge]

Knowing Xeven is doomed, doesn't help you save Xeven.

[vivid notch]

until they don't, like this case where she sees you as a GNB but it happens that you were a DRK at the moment

[brisk quail]

Incorrect

[maiden lodge]

Xeven, the mage Blade. YOu probably know him better as 'one third of Trinity Avowed'

[vivid notch]

you'd be surprised

[brisk quail]

The cutscene always uses your current job

[shrewd cypress]

I wouldn’t consider the job you’re on to be proof that it can change

[brisk quail]

So that doesn't matter. The cutscene changes

[elder moth]

You really can't take that as invalidating the vision as, in a gameplay sense, it is what you're currently wearing. In reality, the vision occurs as whatever job / gearset you eventually finish and go past it on

[vivid notch]

yes you do the first cutscene as GNB then you change between that and the event to DRK, easy determinism proven wrong

[shrewd cypress]

If you do a12 and go into the time gate, your character in the past looks like how you do now. Your appearance is irrelevant

[brisk quail]

You can play it on Nin, see the cutscene as nin.

Then swap to DRK and then rematch it. Guess what. The cutscene has you as drk now

[sage thicket]

I also couldn't Rescue Y'Shtola, or Raise anyone at the Temple, or etc.

Also for sake of argument, she is seeing a vision about The WoL whomst is known to actively change fate.

[brisk quail]

It didn't save the fact you played Nin the first time

[maiden lodge]

So your problem is 'I disagree determinism can ever be used as a theme in anything ever' and not the storytelling around it. Got it.

[fast warren]

[vivid notch]

as I said before, it can be done

[fast warren]

I need my Bloodsuckers

[vivid notch]

the greeks have done it pretty well for a while

[maiden lodge]

Yes, a different story can do different things to say different things. That's not what this story is saying.

[vivid notch]

this is a really shitty execution because, as I've been saying for a while, it makes the characters have to either don't give a shit about the situation or be complete morons

or both, which is the case here

[brisk quail]

I think the only moron is you here

[vivid notch]

because determinism is a bad resource to use, especially if you don't really know how to use it lmao

[sage thicket]

Except that we don't know if ignoring the reading or reacting to the reading would ensure the reading.

[brisk quail]

Because you're touching on points that get mentioned latwr

And you haven't even done up to that. Its like you saw a Gay couple in a video game and started to hate on it because it's gay

It's totally inappropriate and immature

[lethal nebula]

is deltascape v1 or v2 better for the relic farm?

[maiden lodge]

This isn't a tale of self-fulfilling prophesy. This is about a girl accepting death with dignity, not wishing to trouble others because she knows (not believes, knows) it can't change anything. So rather than risk everything they've accomplished in the vain hopes of changing it, she accepts she's going to fall. She doesn't accept she'll die, she knows that her visions don't always show how they end.

Mikoto doesn't tell anyone, because she believes her power is worthless. She doesn't care. That's the story. She doesn't care. The WoL cares, because he's not used to it.

[shrewd cypress]

This guy’s mind is gonna be blown when he finds out time travel stories can have different rules

[sage thicket]

I would liken it to anything Astrologians do: here are the cards, you may accept it or defy it but you cannot deny it.

[fast warren]

Yeah that's my takeaway from this. Either that, or they're a troll.

[vivid notch]

if the WoL cared they'd've changed it

[fast warren]

does changing it give the WoL a shiny new 535 weapon

[brisk quail]

HERE'S A GREAT EXAMPLE.

Ready?

You watch a playthrough of FFXIV of the story. Then you play it but want it to change? Does it? NO

[fast warren]

Because I'm pretty sure it's canon now that the WoL only cares about getting stronger weapons

[vivid notch]

that makes no sense lmao

[brisk quail]

You tell people I don't want X to happen. Does it change? no

[maiden lodge]

You're not bitchng about the execution. Your complaint is with the exposition. Your complaint is, and only really is that a character exists who can see a future that cannot be changed. This is a hard premise. Your complaint is not in how that is executed.

[nocturne void]

incorrect

[vivid notch]

I know what you are getting at and it makes no sense

[brisk quail]

You then delay playing the story. Does it change? No

[nocturne void]

I only care about Triple Triad cards

[brisk quail]

The story is set. The fate is set. Doing something different doesn't change what happens

[nocturne void]

Utter fiction

Triple Triad

[vivid notch]

not really

[sage thicket]

I think you're mixing Concern with Abilitiy. We've already dealt with timey-wimey prophectic certainty. Between Alexander, ShB, Emet/Elidibus, and even Carteanu. The WoL is probably pretty sure of themself that despite what happens we'll be there to change things if they are to be changed.

[vivid notch]

it's a part of it, but nore the entire thing

[maiden lodge]

Yes, really.

[junior pebble]

Is there a non glowy version of the new relic?

[vivid notch]

wow you know my arguments better than me, mind telling me six numbers real quick?

need them to get some money

[fast warren]

Duck Magician. Did you do the Alexander storyline? Right before you fight Alexander Prime, you see a cutscene where you're frozen in time as Alexander fires Sacrament at you. You can be any job during this cutscene. Then, during the actual fight itself, you go into the time jails and you see that cutscene again, except this time your gear has changed to what you're wearing now, and not what you were wearing in the cutscene.

[maiden lodge]

Mikoto is inerrantly precognisant. That's told to us in exposition. Once the story establishes that she is inerrantly precognisant, you can't complain about execution if your problem is her inerrancy.

Because that's not execution. She's established as inerrant.

[fast warren]

changing yur job or gear does not change what happens.

[vivid notch]

except for not letting Mikoto fall, that one the WoL doesn't give a shit about

[maiden lodge]

And her inerrancy is a core part of her conflict--of what she has to face. If she weren't inerrant, she'd have a completely different conflict.

[sage thicket]

Idk, i like Mikoto and hope no harm comes to her. And it's my WoL

[maiden lodge]

You want her to be errant. But she's not errant. Do you not get that? The point isn't whether or not the WoL cares (they do and do tell others, jesus play the story you're bitching about) the point is that telling people didn't change a damn thing.

[vivid notch]

that's part of why a deterministic point doesn't work in a story like FFXIV's, yes

[gaunt star]

already caught greater serpant of ronka 🙂

[maiden lodge]

But the story does work.

Because the story isn't about what you want it to be about doesn't mean it doesn't work. It means the rules everyone is dealing with don't agree with you. That's premise, not execution.

You can't tell a story about a girl facing her inerrant prophesy if her prophesy isn't inerrant

[sage thicket]

Also, just for my next point: mikoto's vision- do we see it as an echo or does she tell us?

[maiden lodge]

When she echos, we echo with her.

[brisk quail]

We see it.

[nocturne void]

is it a pet?

[brisk quail]

That's why WoL and Mikoto end with holding their heads

[maiden lodge]

The ice-cream headache of divination

Everything in MIkoto's vision plays out as it does because the alternative is everyone dies.

[sage thicket]

So we, the WoL, whom only has ever seen the past is witnessing her vision of the future.

Sounds to me like there could easily be a lost-in-translation case since we would have to be seeing the Past of the Future.

[fast warren]

The WoL, if near, always feels the effects of another's Echo. We always see the future when Mikoto does, we feel emotions when Krile (and the Ala Mhigan lady who got Krile';s echo does)

When another past-vision echoer sees the past, we see it too

[maiden lodge]

Mikoto's vision doesn't include that part, but as you get closer, you come to understand that the only other alternative is everyone gets killed. Bas has to hold off Lyon to keep him from stopping us. We have to be where we are to light a beacon to tell Cid where the leylines are. Everyone is busy because there's a giant fuckoff ultima-weapon-level cannon about to fire on the resistance and the alternative is everyone dies.

[maiden lodge]

The Echo lets you piggyback like that. Elidibus piggybacks on us when we flash on him. That's another Echo power--echo users can combine their powers like that.

[crystal arrow]

wanna know what bothered me though? ||the fact that she has had a number of visions which have conveniently left out important bits but she's still somehow convinced that she will actually die||

[sage thicket]

Plus, besides. If Mikoto actually dies she'd be required to show up in PotD now, ye? /s

[fast warren]

potd is stuck in 3.4

[gaunt star]

no its a fish.but you can out it on a canvas

[maiden lodge]

If Mikoto's vision could be avoided, doing so would be far worse.

[nocturne void]

damn, can't even put it in a tank

what a terrible catch

I write L/R on my hands

[pure thorn]

wrong chat

[gaunt star]

also its a mooch from priest.so you can imagine how much fun people having trying to catch it xd

[nocturne void]

Yeah, I did see that

[sage thicket]

Did he piggyback? I don't recall

[vivid notch]

not really. It is also about the premise, yes, as I said a few times before I do despise determinism; but it is also about execution.

This is going to get long and I'm going to divide it into two parts. The first is my problem with determinism as shown in the story. The second is about the general bad writing of this questline (it should be shorter than this one, hopefully). First part: As I said, I do hate determinism, but I still appreciate the greek tragedies because they are executed very well. This isn't and I believe I said why a few times, but if it was not clear: it's that it's a vision.

Once a deterministic future is known, it becomes incredibly hard to execute, because if the future is as it is, nothing can be changed. As I said a couple of times now, greek tragedies don't work if the characters know the future for sure instead of being told a prophecy, because knowing the future is actively harmful for a deterministic future story.

Why? Simple, because from the moment that you establish that a future can't be changed, it can't be changed. Even in the slightest details. If anything changes, no matter how small, that's the whole deterministic premise down the sink.

This traps you with very few options, which is never a good thing for a writer: You can either make a series of ever more convoluted solutions or can you can not worry about it (which is what they chose), each option with their own problems. The first means that you can't have a serious story, either you go to the second one eventually or it becomes a ridiculous comedy (not ridiculous in the pejorative sense, mind); the second is fine enough... as long as the reader doesn't think for too long or gets really engaged in it, enough to have the suspension of belief necessary for this kind of story to work. They went with the second

that's my problem with determinism in this story in specific. Now for my problems with this story's writing in general

As you can see it has both problems with the intent and the execution

[maiden lodge]

Hang on

Let me address this.

[nocturne void]

Man, all of the legendary fish in the first suck

[maiden lodge]

Cause you made a point, let me handle it before you move on. There is one major, glaring issue with what you're describing and I think it undermines your argument.

Stories are about characters.

[nocturne void]

As if. Campbell wrote the monomyth and every story after that has been pointless. (this is sarcasm)

Who wants to hear about the heroes journey for the millionth time

[vivid notch]

Star Wars fans, apparently

[maiden lodge]

It's not about how a conflict is necessarily resolved--so what if there's only a handful of ways that a determinism story can end? That's the point innit? If the writer uses that to tell things about the characters, to teach us lessons about ourselves, then that writer is executing well.

Knowing that the main character in American Beauty dies at the end, because he's dead at the start, doesn't make American Beauty a bad movie. Determinism stories aren't about the resolution, they're about the journey. So when your complaint about Deterministic stories don't address the characters or the journey, it feels like you miss the point somewhat.

[nocturne void]

record scratch I bet you're wondering how I got into this mess

[vivid notch]

there are two points there. The first is, I mean, "stories are about characters" is a way of seeing stories, yes. I wouldn't agree but it's certainly something a way that you can see stories

[maiden lodge]

The point of this kind of story and yes this includes greek tragedies involving prophesy is not that the story ends as foretold, it's about how it gets there. You miss that point of greek tragedies--that greek tragedy isn't just about the prophesy--it's that the characters turn into complete dicks trying to avoid the prophesy and that nemesis comes in to correct things. That they earn their bad end.

[vivid notch]

the second point is that a story told in a flashback is different than a story with prescience shenanigans in it, wouldn't think they are necessarily comparable

[nocturne void]

They're the same thing

You will get to point A

[maiden lodge]

Oedipus isn't about fucking his mom. It's about him killing his father because his father becomes a douchebag in his attempts to avoid the prophesy. It's about how his father is a dick and deserves it.

[forest magnet]

Romeo and Juliet literally says they both die in the first stanza(?)

[maiden lodge]

Cassandra's narrative is that no one believes her and stumbles into the bad end she prophesies and they deserve it.

Greek tragedy is about bad things happening to people who deserve it.

[nocturne void]

I pointed out the Appointment in Samarra and Minority report, both of which incorporate a non-negotiable future

[shrewd cypress]

Yoo are you guys still talking about the determinism thing

[nocturne void]

Determinism isn't bad story technique simply because A and B are known

Yes, apparently

[vivid notch]

okay this one is just straight up wrong. Like, provably wrong. Again I'll take Oedipus Rex as an example because it's probably the best known one and happens to straight up go against that.

Oedipus Rex is not about Oedipus becoming a horrible piece of shit that deserves what happens to him at the end. It's about the inevitability of fate and the cruelty of life. Laius violates the gods' laws, so they curse him.

Then, Oedipus happens, and, and this is important, the story is not about Laius' misfortune. It's about Oedipus' tragedy, a man that, by no fault of his own ends up becoming a horrible wretch because he was Fate's chewtoy

[shrewd cypress]

You’re not gonna change his mind lol 99% of internet arguments are pointless you know

[nocturne void]

yeah, probs

[maiden lodge]

No, it's about his dad becoming a dick. I was very clear about that.

[nocturne void]

Determinism of internet

[vivid notch]

I mean you can be clear about it, it's still wrong lmao

[forest magnet]

The illusion...of free choice.

[maiden lodge]

Oedipus, the original legend, was always about the dad.

[pastel coyote]

Yet another episode of "Me Dis, i'm right"

[maiden lodge]

Thank you for adding to the discussion.

[vivid notch]

I don't even know where to begin with this one I'll be honest

[pastel coyote]

As ever

[vivid notch]

I'm not even sure you are serious about that one

[severe brook]

i mean i would argue that laius' cruelty is what starts it, but it's oedipus' own arrogance that really furthers the plot
granted, people really do focus too much on the incest, as weird as that is to say
since that's more a consequence and not a cause

[maiden lodge]

Having a complex named after it doesn't help, to be fair

And yeah, it's about people fucking up and getting bad shit because of it

[vivid notch]

no it isn't

[maiden lodge]

Regardless, that ignores the point.

[nocturne void]

Determinism has been explored and employed extremely constructively as a question of the matter of free will, and saying "Determinism dumb" is not really a serious argument

[vivid notch]

like okay I know you are probably joking but that one actually hurts, that's severely misunderstanding the general current of the greek tragedies

[maiden lodge]

Okay, but does it hurt more than disagreeing that stories are about the characters?

[vivid notch]

I mean no, because stories are about conflict. You don't need to have deep characters to have a good story (ie. Lord of the Rings), but you always need an engaging conflict (except in a specific type of story, I don't know how they are called in english, chronicles maybe?)

[maiden lodge]

Like, you're right, they could have told a story about the WoL trying to avoid Mikoto's vision. But Matsuno didn't do that, deliberately. Did you ever ask 'Why?'

[vivid notch]

I mean, I'd say stories are about conflict. You can say that stories are about characters if you want

[maiden lodge]

Instead of dismissing it as 'stupid' did you ever stop and ask 'Why did the author choose to do this?'

[vivid notch]

because they are a bad writer ez next question

[maiden lodge]

And what is the conflict in this plotline?

[vivid notch]

people being morons

[maiden lodge]

No, you don't get to call that an answer.

[nocturne void]

Man vs Universe

[vivid notch]

and the WoL's struggle to care for anything besides a shiny new weapon

[maiden lodge]

Refusal to examine a work is not a replacement for reasonable critique..

[maiden lodge]

Mikoto has an internal conflict. Did you bother to see what it was

[pastel coyote]

That's me !

[vivid notch]

yeah she is afraid to die but wants to stoically face the end so their mission can succeed, whatever

[maiden lodge]

Because she knows she can't change it.

She's not the only character in there with that conflict. I pointed out Xeven earlier.

[vivid notch]

you say that name like you expect me to know why it's relevant lmao

[maiden lodge]

Xeven is prophesied to die in Bozja.

[signal minnow]

will Loathsome memories of the dying and Raw Emotions Quests stack?

I mean when I have both Quests active and go to DR will I get both of them?

[nocturne void]

Yes

[vital brook]

So who was dat? Was it Hydaelyn? Venat?

[vivid notch]

I mean, yeah, people happen to die in wars

[fast warren]

is this conversation still going on

[hearty yoke]

if I do raids to gather the mats, will it automatically swap to the other mat at 30?

[nocturne void]

hydalen is venat

[hearty yoke]

or am i gonna end up with 999 books calling me a muppet for grinding relic weapons

[vital brook]

So the answer is yes

[crystal arrow]

it will not swap

[maiden lodge]

And yet he goes and becomes a Blade, because knowing he is doomed is less important than freedom.

[nocturne void]

No, 1-2 of a series are one mat, 3-4 are the other

[vital brook]

Anybody got a photo of her btw? Shit was brighter than my future

[hearty yoke]

oh so second half of each raid.. part

[nocturne void]

So 12569(10)

[vivid notch]

yes, there's a reason why he's like a tertiary character that you only ever get to know the conflict of if you read his file or whatever

[maiden lodge]

And Xeven's fate is to become tempered and fused into Trinity Avowed.

[hearty yoke]

got it. TY!

[nocturne void]

and 3478(11,12) for the other

[maiden lodge]

Matsuno likes to write about the horroes of war.

[fast warren]

@vivid notch

[rancid turtle]

I'm still dumbfounded by how the whole 4th legion and dalmasca resistance story is finished offscreen in a note you get before you see the cutscene they feels like sequel bait.
I cant be the only one really confused by this?

[vivid notch]

I mean, sure, that conflict can be interesting to explore, but a conflict - even if compelling - doesn't make a good story

[maiden lodge]

He's actually been present at war, and he knows first hand how bad it is--this has informed a lot of his writing.

[crystal arrow]

from the EW poster https://i.imgur.com/Izhzc3A.png

[maiden lodge]

He's using prophesy, in this instance, as a metaphor for the certainty people face going into a major battle that they won't make it home alive.

That you can't just 'hero your way' out of it.

[vivid notch]

and he had the good choice of relegating that conflict to a tertiary character that barely has any screen time

[vital brook]

Aight thanks bro

[maiden lodge]

But soldiers aren't tertiary characters in their own story.

[vivid notch]

again, could be developed well, or it could not be, as Mikoto story is unfolding I feel better knowing it wasn't

doesn't really matter, he's a tertiary character in this story and that's the one that matters

[maiden lodge]

He's bringing this front and center, forcing us to confront that a character is facing 'certain death' which is a reality many soldiers face and have faced.

And sometimes--dumbluck means a soldier survives.

[pastel coyote]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/453000912399499265.gif?v=1

[maiden lodge]

You can't refuse to look at a work beyond your own personal distaste for a narrative device and properly critique it.

You can't say 'this work is bad because I hate deterministic stories' without actually trying to go beneath the surface--even a little--and see what's actually going on.

[vivid notch]

I mean that's all fine and dandy but that's all interpretation from a tertiary character that you barely even know who it is unless you get lucky enough to get his file and feel like reading it, then develop an emotional connection, otherwise you just don't really care about poor Xeven

case inpoint: I don't care about Xeven's inner struggles, I barely even know who he is

[maiden lodge]

No, I mean Mikoto.

Xeven foreshadows this--Xeven helps further establish that determinism.

But Mikoto is telling a story that young soldiers face but making it from the PoV of a non-soldier. Someone non-soldiers can relate to.

[vivid notch]

am no soldier, cannot relate to

[maiden lodge]

You want the soldiers to be heroes that can defy the odds and overcome fate. But that's not realistic. That's not actual war. And Bozja is about war. About tragedy. About betrayal. About war crimes. About confrontation.

[vivid notch]

I do like that you know what I want better than me lmao

[hearty yoke]

On one mildly related note

[maiden lodge]

I'm going by things you've said. You ask why they don't talk to each other, why they don't try to defy fate, why they don't successfully defy fate.

But you don't accept that they know they can't.

They're soldiers. Soldiers will die.

[crystal arrow]

[quasi zodiac]

Holy shit is COD Prestige

[hearty yoke]

where was the choice outside of the "would you kill her or not" one?

[quasi zodiac]

lmfaoooo thats wild

[drowsy belfry]

You ready to grind more?

[brisk quail]

I gotta know how much each stack is

Like how much of a boost is ×1 stack of HP/damage/heals

[maiden lodge]

At 500k xp per CE this isn't bad tbh

[hearty yoke]

@brisk quailunconfirmed, but I heard 1 is 5%, but the second is 4.7%?

[silent oriole]

Just finished bozja storyline. Gotta say, Bozja. More like BASEDja

[pastel coyote]

It's not like we have any use of mettle outside of this

[fast warren]

isn't there a weekly that requires 2mil

[drowsy parrot]

Hi, for the last step of the relic, what is the fastest way to do it?

[slate ridge]

I wonder if the forum is hiding something

[vivid notch]

I mean, I can

but, more seriously: Even if Mikoto's story is a metaphor for the struggle of soldiers who know that they might die any day now and must struggle with it while they murder other people (and it might not be, personal interpretations, intent of the author, etc. etc., I would go further and say that it probably isn't), that doesn't mean it's a good story or a compelling conflict lmao

Sure, stories are about conflict, but that doesn't mean that having a conflict makes a story good. You can have a compelling conflict and a shitty story and you can have an incredible story with a terrible conflict.

Let's consider that sure, Mikoto's story is all that gloom and doom about war and death and soldiers and all that (I personally disagree but whatever), it still needs to be executed well. And when you start going "lol that's dumb why didn't they do X or Y, that'd solve that problem", then it wasn't executed very well

[nocturne void]

what if the story was just different

[gaunt star]

!iglam talekeeper recollection

[lusty shadow]

**Talekeeper Recollection** **:** Red Mage's Arm

Images of glamour items by Gamer Escape.

[viscid monolith]

All this because you have a weird grudge against determinism

[gaunt star]

!iglam augmented law's order rapier

[drowsy belfry]

Recollection more REKTcollection hehehhehee

[lusty shadow]

**Augmented Law's Order Rapier** **:** Red Mage's Arm

Images of glamour items by Gamer Escape.

[vivid notch]

nah that's just me pointing out the obvious problems with the determinism shit. You see, when you start going "hey why didn't they do X Y and Z instead of that, that'd solved things" the answer can't be "because it has to be this way or else this story doesn't work". I mean, it can, but it is not a very good answer

[topaz river]

I just finished the zadnor story

[vivid notch]

I would accept it being done better tbh, but yes I'd prefer if it was different

[topaz river]

Can anyone explain to me how the multiple outcomes worked?

[maiden lodge]

Right but your complaints aren't about execution. They're not about the characters and how they react, they don't examine Mikoto's conflict, and more importantly you haven't seen the execution

[vivid notch]

I have seen the execution of the part that concerns the point lmao

[maiden lodge]

'I don't think this can be executed well' is a fair comment. 'This wasn't executed well' is not.

[vivid notch]

I have been saying for a little bit now. "This type of story can be done well. This wasn't done well"

[brisk quail]

The execution is bad.

have you watched the whole movie

No i just saw the title card. Sci fi is bad

[nocturne void]

gravity has to work in order for you to fall off things

But what if gravity wasn't there

Well it is

[slate ridge]

i think in the endwalker trailer graha tia finds information in sharlayan, so i wonder if that means the forum and fourchenault is hiding something

[vivid notch]

Just cast graviga on top of her ezpz

she'll be pulled to the center and slow her fall down

[nocturne void]

Yes, magic your way out of all conflict

What a great story

[vivid notch]

I mean

[crystal arrow]

now that would be shit writing

[vivid notch]

did you enjoy the end of Shadowbringers

[maiden lodge]

Yes.

Very much.

[brisk quail]

Don't you dare call the SoS summoning, bullshit. I swear to god.

[vivid notch]

there's very little more "magic your way out of a conflict" than

"Hey remember this character that was incapacitated? They are up and now they summoned a whole party of other characters for you to fight the main villain, hell yeah!!!"

[brisk quail]

It was setup. There was a precedence

[vivid notch]

Shadowbringers not 5.3

[brisk quail]

It wasn't just brought up like lmao nah

[shrewd cypress]

[crystal arrow]

SHB had a very satisfying conclusion. And there was setup and precedence for that.

[vivid notch]

oh man I had completely forgotten about that part. Talk about a fucking Deus Ex Machina

[maiden lodge]

To be fair, if 'you find a way to bring friends' was a dealbroker, deal was broken at Bowl of Embers.

[vivid notch]

I'm not criticizing it lmao, I loved Shadowbringers ending and 5.3, it was very well done

[topaz river]

No takers? Lol

[vivid notch]

but if your issue is magicking your way out of a conflict, well, I suggest you go through Shadowbringers again

[viscid monolith]

Still working on it Blitz

[topaz river]

Okay

[vivid notch]

I haven't finished it yet so can't tell you, sorry

[viscid monolith]

Too tired to play right now

[vivid notch]

I did choose Spare if that matters

[viscid monolith]

I'll ask in another discord

[crystal arrow]

that's an awful argument

[maiden lodge]

Also, Duck, just so you know, I'm a bit testy right now because my static put me in charge of getting the e12s skip this week so I'm sitting in Gangos not grinding my relic like I want getting that together, and that might be coming across.

[vivid notch]

oof

[maiden lodge]

So if I'm being testy at you, I do apologize I really don't mean to.

[vivid notch]

it's okay, I don't mind

I'm having fun

Sorry if I'm being a jerk, I don't really have a reason I'm just a piece of shit myself lmao

anyway moving on, my problems with this story in general and not just determinism as used in it have been raised before by other people, and they are quite simple, really. The main problem with this one is the cliché. It's like the Y'Shtola thing. You know she won't die and the plot will find some convenient way of saving her. The emotional impact of her vision is completely negated (especially if you don't care to start with, which, hey same hat!), this makes the whole thing much cheaper

especially since it's not even a character that you go "oh cool, I wonder how they are going to get out of this impossible situation this time" like say Harry Dresden

[subtle pasture]

Multiple outcomes in YoRHa or Zadnor?

[vivid notch]

at least not for me anyway

[elder moth]

They specified Zadnor

[topaz river]

Zadnor

I don’t pretend to understand yorha

Lol

[subtle pasture]

Oh, it's the same end, ||Baj takes the blade and does it, both options||

[vivid notch]

wait what

[topaz river]

Is there any difference then?

[vivid notch]

||that's fucking cheap as hell what the fuck||

[topaz river]

Even if not the ending

[subtle pasture]

Well, Baj makes a remark of ||It's not your burden,||

[vivid notch]

holy shit that's shitty

I mean /godsdamn/

[subtle pasture]

||tbf, Misija is clearly like, on death's door, she's not recovering from what she had just done||

[topaz river]

Yoshi really played up the player choice thing so I was expecting something a little more

Even if ||Misija dies regardless||

[vivid notch]

||why have the fucking option then?||

||does it change anything?||

[topaz river]

Also ||placing such an emphasis on a potential romance between Cid and Mikoto only to have it fizzle out in Zadnor|| is a bit lol

I found that amusing considering all the memes made about it back when this all started

[brisk quail]

Is there a new augmented/haste set for Bozja in 5.55?

[subtle pasture]

Yeah I was expecting like, the tone of the epilogue to shift based on what I chose, but I don't know if it goes those lengths

[brisk quail]

Or is it only DR savage is the best?

[earnest sedge]

None

Augmented Law and Order is your best bet

[heady shadow]

||is it as bad as Hien and cirina?||

[topaz river]

I’d argue worse because in the previous chapters (and parts of this one) they got very on the nose about it

To the point where it feels kind of like whiplash that they chose not to go in that direction

[heady shadow]

ouch

[topaz river]

And it doesn’t mesh well with what was established before

Imo

[vivid notch]

yikes

I mean, hey ||more food for Nero x Cid at least||

[brisk quail]

Fuck. Okay. Does the stacks from 'prestige' Bozja mettle apply in DRS at the least?

[heady shadow]

ouch.... ||at least hien and cirina can still happen||

[nocturne void]

They should

[elder moth]

All save the queen content I believe

[stable island]

I did some calculations with the resistance honors for Zadnor (and all other STQ areas)
(Based on the base stat without any buffs, each honor increase the base stat again with the same %)

Sun of Fortitude = 5% increase in HP
Sun of Valor = 5% increase in damage dealt
Sun of Succor = 10% increased healing potency

20.000.000 mettle = 3 resistance honors. After each 2 buffs you need an additional honor for an buff up to 5 for the last 2.

[brisk quail]

Holy fuck that's insane

[nocturne void]

You can buy the echo

[brisk quail]

Seems like you'd need to be exclusively dealing with Duels to make any significant mettle gains

[rustic heath]

Is the buff permanent

[elder moth]

Yeah it's permanent

[nocturne void]

Forever

[rustic heath]

Damn

[brisk quail]

Though...

A 10% boost for HP/Damage or 20% heal boost would make DRS a breeze

[earnest sedge]

I got 2 honors >:)

[rustic heath]

I'm only on rank 22

[brisk quail]

Let alone a full 100%

[earnest sedge]

With the new lost chainspell and ordained and BiS i can maintain like 25k+ on rdm

Without lost bravery or anything

[nocturne void]

what about WHM

[earnest sedge]

Just flat no buffs 25k+

[brisk quail]

Add a full haste set and you could probably fight V tier mobs with no issue with maxed hp or damage

That reminds me. I ought to run Castrum for more actions

Or just buy em off MB

[nocturne void]

Imagine how fast Castrum could be

[earnest sedge]

But BLM is where its at, essence of watcher + chainspell = phys range blm

[brisk quail]

I mean wouldn't 2 damage 1 HP/Heal make Castrum like 50% faster if everyone had em?

[earnest sedge]

Its crazy broken

[drowsy belfry]

I need to do Titan another 11 times, end my suffering please

[earnest sedge]

Watcher + chainspell = 90s chainspell

Chainspell recast = 90s

[brisk quail]

Just do Bozja

[nocturne void]

BOW DOWN OVERDWELLER

[brisk quail]

THE LAND THE LAND

[drowsy belfry]

Yeaaaah but CEs aren't spawning aloooot

[earnest sedge]

Spawn em yerself

[drowsy belfry]

Zone 3 was the worst one, so I'm just getting it done via quick ezpz Titans

[brisk quail]

Just work on Prestige in Bozja

And spawn CEs by killing mobs

[nocturne void]

Oh man

[drowsy belfry]

But DAAAAAADs

[nocturne void]

I hope people sell orchestrion rolls

[earnest sedge]

Bloodsucker + WAR + Lost Slash = you wont die mass pulling shit

[nocturne void]

I'm missing some of the eden ones

[earnest sedge]

Just dont pull anything with a DoT

[drowsy belfry]

Ooooh fr?

[clever flume]

hedge go do bozja, and spawn your own CEs

[drowsy belfry]

I miight need to do some memes on WAR

[earnest sedge]

WAR has high self heal, couple that with more via bloodsucker + lost slash you wont die

Unless you pull smth like 12 ochus

Every hit heals you with bloodsucker

[drowsy belfry]

Legit tho I am DESPERATE to see a full 24 man DR with every Honor

[earnest sedge]

Catch is, you need to mass pull else you will die

[earnest sedge]

Time to make a (DRS was harder back then) macro

[brisk quail]

Just play PLD for mass pulls

Self heals. Solid AoE. Confeitor

[earnest sedge]

Naw WAR is better

[crystal arrow]

Would O1 or O6 be faster for the relic items?

[drowsy belfry]

I did O1 and O4 spam

[earnest sedge]

Bc IR stacks with bloodsucker HP drain

[tardy hare]

For anyone who has done the 5.45 step for the resistance weapon (the timeworn artifact step) what is the best way to get the item? PoTD or DR? I need to get it done so I can do the new step lol

[brisk quail]

DR

[earnest sedge]

DR

[drowsy belfry]

DR

[brisk quail]

PotD is a chance.

DR is 1 per run

[earnest sedge]

Unless you going 200 floor palace, its DR

Higher floors = more chance but DR = 100%

[brisk quail]

PotD is like a 5% chance on the base floors

Then slowly climbs as you go to 200

[drowsy belfry]

Plus Higher floors of POTD take about as long as an average DR run if you're unlucky in RNG

[tardy hare]

eugh, not looking forward to 14 more 40-50 minute runs but looks like I'll just have to tough it out

[crystal arrow]

start a series on netflix

[earnest sedge]

Now it should be speed

[crystal arrow]

should be quicker now yeah

[tardy hare]

Did they change something?

[earnest sedge]

Finished one in 20 mins earlier

[brisk quail]

Do you have honors?

[drowsy belfry]

If I can do all of 'em via DR, you can tough out 14 runs

[vivid notch]

doesn't 100-200 take like 7h?

[clever flume]

HEDGE WHERE IS YOUR PURPLE BLU MAGE WEAPON???

[drowsy belfry]

GIVE ME IT

[earnest sedge]

Naw who told ya that

[clever flume]

WHY WOULD I HAVE IT?

[tardy hare]

I just started Zadnor like yesterday so uh I don't think so

[drowsy belfry]

WHERE IS MY BLUE MAGE RELIC SQUARE

[brisk quail]

It'll take you a day or two

[drowsy belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/grumble-grumble-zelda-zelda-grumble-grumble-gif-14992216

[vivid notch]

I saw a group clear 1-200 in 7 hours lmao

[brisk quail]

Then you'll gain the ability to CoD prestige

[vivid notch]

or something like that

[clever flume]

so disappointed by your lack of all purple inventory smh

[vivid notch]

between 5 and 7

[earnest sedge]

1-200 in 7 hours :V thats an hour per set of 10 wtf

[drowsy belfry]

Don't do this to me Kael, I already have to live with the fact BLU's gonna be my only Blue weapon till 6.0

[clever flume]

no true purple for you, disappoint

[drowsy belfry]

Purple Mage never

[earnest sedge]

Nah its like 3-5 hours total depends on floor rng, if you start at 51

[vivid notch]

to be fair they were not speed runners

and that time was total time with breaks and stuff

[drowsy belfry]

if PoTD RNG screws you tho, it can turn 10 floors into a million

[earnest sedge]

Then yea around 3-5hrs for 51-200

Floor rng is a thing

[brisk quail]

I'm hype to see how easy CLL will be with honors

[vivid notch]

oof

[brisk quail]

Heck I'm waiting to bitch slap mobs with superior stats

[earnest sedge]

I did it with 16 people earlier

[drowsy belfry]

I wiped with 19 last night

[earnest sedge]

Dalrarara done with 9 people

[brisk quail]

Those Rank 5/6 who one shot me running past?

Fuck you. Now you die

[gaunt star]

electric guitar instrument sounds a little obnoxious playing it. If people thought violins were annoying they have another thing coming

[vivid notch]

oh boy

that's disappointing

is it better than the other instruments? I hate the other instruments lmao

especially the drums, I don't know who thought those were a good idea but hot damn were they wrong

[earnest sedge]

But ya if you doing zadnor as a caster that aint smn, make SURE you pickup chainspell

[gaunt star]

It’s pretty good. But then I lile electric guitars personally so...🤷‍♂️

[vivid notch]

funfact: though piano is technically a percussion instrument, drums don't work like a piano

[vivid notch]

hello 911?

[forest magnet]

Piano is a stringed instrument, not a percussion.

[vivid notch]

I know, 'twas but a jest

[gaunt star]

lmao

I dont mind how they implement that

It would be nice if you can play chords though or multiple notes

[vivid notch]

I mean it's not the worst thing I've ever seen and at least it's there. It's better than Starbound's instruments for sure, but after Warframe's Shawzins it's just disappointing

[earnest sedge]

Is2g if se adds polyphony that'll be the fkin day

[brisk quail]

put them in the baby jail Labyrinthos

[earnest sedge]

I have software that lets me convert midi inouts to key inouts, i can actually play

[gaunt star]

That’s nice

[earnest sedge]

Ik people use bard player but howbout ACTUALLY playing the music

[brisk quail]

Imagine using a crafting macro

Just learn to craft for real

[gaunt star]

if only there was a way to convert actual music with good latency...

[earnest sedge]

Some players are musicians so why not have smth for em

[brisk quail]

Virgin Macro user versus Chad Real Time Crafter

[earnest sedge]

Instead of monophony gimmie polyphony

[gaunt star]

Or let us play multiple instruments at the same time on the keyboard

cool stuff can be made with drums added

[earnest sedge]

Just lemme play more than one note and actually be able to play smth

[vivid notch]

I'd be happy with an actual good sequencer tbh, not just piano samples pitched differently lmao

[kind lark]

The game needs a bass now.

[vivid notch]

smiles in never using a crafting macro

[earnest sedge]

I mean yknow if you want to put in that much effort then to each is his own

[vivid notch]

I'm the dumb kind of lazy

making macros is effort so I'll just do it manually

[earnest sedge]

Nah uust teamcraft

[coarse meadow]

Has anyone been able to spawn a zone 3 CE yet?

I dont believe they exist

[dense lynx]

they do

I'm pretty sure I was in one

[proven iron]

The fact that you aren’t sure doesn’t help support your claim

[coarse meadow]

YO

ONE JUST POPPED

[fringe adder]

If Bozja is concluded with this, does this mean we'll confront Lyon and Noah in a different resistance setting?

[proven iron]

🧐

[forest magnet]

Probably.

Though I don't look forward to making bozja required for anything.

[earnest sedge]

Ye theres alot

[fringe adder]

I wonder what their plans are for Lyon. He's getting a lot of spotlight if you ask me

[heady shadow]

it'll be required for 7.2 xD

[torpid yoke]

Kill more shit

These field notes are wild. Pash was not kidding

[coarse meadow]

All I’ve been doing is killing legion lol

[torpid yoke]

The magitek mobs?

[thorn pecan]

So is there a decision that you make that changes the story in Zandor?so far nothing has changed

[pastel coyote]

New limited job for 8.0

[iron scaffold]

i'm more impress that they have Magitek Troopers

[fringe adder]

None

[thorn pecan]

then wtf was Yoship trying to say careful with your choices did i waste 40 minutes in a decision for nothing?

[fringe adder]

I was exactly the same, but the outcome is the same regardless of what you pick

[earnest sedge]

Its trying to get you to be attatchrd to Misjajaja tbh they tried to pull of a yotsuyu character again tbh but

Poorly executed in my eyes o.o

[thorn pecan]

ok im gd i can pick whatever i want then

[heady shadow]

illllions of choice...... yeeee boy

[fringe adder]

I think Yoshida and his team weren't on one line for Bozja

[thorn pecan]

theres a reddit post a guy chose both options and the outcome was the same

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/nldt6f/spoiler_zadnor_about_the_choices_in_zadnor/

[iron scaffold]

Biggest revelation from Zandor was || Fran faked Ashe death ||

[earnest sedge]

Whos ashe again?

[torpid yoke]

Why wouldn't they? That's garlemalds thing, plus their lead scientist

[iron scaffold]

Human size tho ?

[torpid yoke]

Yes

One of sicinius experiments is copying combat data from gaius even

[fringe adder]

One day they'll realize they should copy the wol data

[heady shadow]

||the fact people thought ashe was actually dead at all surprises me||

[iron scaffold]

yea but this the first time i'm seeing these types, up till now were fighting Metal Gears and Gundams

[dim sigil]

MT's

[torpid yoke]

Guess sicinius found allagan robot designs and made some

[vivid notch]

right?

[brisk quail]

Omega tried and failed. And anyways... how'd they get WoL to don something that could record battle data and then recover it?

[vivid notch]

offer a glowy sword

[brisk quail]

Shiit

[vivid notch]

or a triple triad card

or a shiny new phone/memory stick

[heady shadow]

i played ff12 mwehahahaha

[iron scaffold]

we already got Guitars and the phone is pratically there

[brisk quail]

here's relic WoL

ooooh shiny

it's defintely not a trap or scheme I promise

*immediately throws it into the glamor dresser and dismantles it

[vivid notch]

I mean we have phones already lmao

just gotta get the flashy new ones

[torpid yoke]

They can't keep taunting me with beast master like this

[vivid notch]

though the new ones are memory sticks I think?

[iron scaffold]

yes

[torpid yoke]

I need it playable in some capacity QuQ

[vivid notch]

I've been calling that since fucking Bozja 1 and people doubted me

[vivid notch]

[crimson pollen]

Yeah I always knew they were going to come up with silly ways to make 100% sure || Ashe || alive and not all the other "someone else" theories.

[heady shadow]

I called it since ||the one guy who turned into yiazmat mentioned it||

[vivid notch]

I called it since ||I saw that the questline was called "Save the Queen"||

||they tried to shake me off by naming the sword that, but I called it still lmao||

[dim sigil]

I called || the police give up ||

[crimson pollen]

And since she is now here, Matsuno continuing this stuff is a given. Just need formal announcement, tbh.

[heady shadow]

Nice twist either way

[tough fern]

||Ashe|| is alive?

[iron scaffold]

well this Final Fantasy and most of the time common/grounded logic is put in the child safty seat.

[crimson pollen]

yes

[tough fern]

[kind lark]

What are people's thoughts on Zadnor?

[forest magnet]

Then who's the young 'princess' then.
Also imagine faking your death and then reappear using the same name...

[crimson pollen]

It is her

[maiden lodge]

Can confirm, Lovro's fate is to be taken in to be cured of tempering. Confirmed by Meryall in the camp

[heady shadow]

never played ff12 or anything with similar stories eh?

[forest magnet]

I thought they said that the princess was especially naieve since they petitioned the Scions and the East Aldenaard Trading Company for help, becuase she was so young.

[iron scaffold]

they put her in a Fridge sleep

[crimson pollen]

It is her. She had partial memory loss and is quite young still because been kept in stasis. She has changed nothing in all years that passed

[forest magnet]

Well at least that puts to bed the rumor that the young princess was Penelo.

[vivid notch]

Mikoto is a moron, WoL doesn't give a shit, Zadnor is cool, those are my thoughts

[crystal arrow]

ooo the diablo armament theme sure is a bop

[iron scaffold]

She's basically "Breath of the Wild" Link

[forest magnet]

So uh, how does Fran's group have access to Allag/Garlean levels of stasis pods

[vivid notch]

man that's such a bitch cop out

make her old you pussies

[iron scaffold]

Viera magic

[vivid notch]

make the young princess her daughter or whatever the fuck

[crystal arrow]

21 man dalriada and the echo is making this super easy, can tell it'll be awful once people get to it lol

[crimson pollen]

It's explained as being a technique from Dalmasca Royal familty

[vivid notch]

let ||Ashe|| fuck

[gusty quest]

I'd change moron with suicidal

[vivid notch]

who are they, Libra Dohko?

[crimson pollen]

loool, prolly

[forest magnet]

Like, Ashe faking her death is fine, but the stasis pods seem kinda ??? to me.

[vivid notch]

fair too lmao

[iron scaffold]

if the pod was Allagan

[crimson pollen]

I guess that's why they didnt release her costume (and many complained). Possibly because they are about to use her in future

[torpid yoke]

It was always a given tbh. Yoshida loves him matsuno story

[iron scaffold]

.........just her's tho?

[dim sigil]

What if they use her in past 😳

[iron scaffold]

this better give us Al-cid set for the Dalamasca quest

[crimson pollen]

It will be a cool moment when she appears, tbh. 2 expacs teasing.

[forest magnet]

I actually thought Bozja was gonna be a side story from the RtI line but now going forward it's gonna be fuckin required for whatever comes next

[torpid yoke]

Nah its still fine with 48 ppl. At least it is on aether

[swift rune]

I totally need Al-Cid set and Ashe's

[heady shadow]

but here is the real question.

Where is the Leading Man?

[torpid yoke]

Helping lyon

[brisk quail]

Lyon is a chad

[heady shadow]

Balthier? nah

[brisk quail]

Lyon is a big boy

[torpid yoke]

Lyon and Noah are plotting

[brisk quail]

Also. His duel looks fairly easy. Saw a run of it go by FAST.

His second duel I mean

[crimson pollen]

Lyon ||flee from prison and took one for the team faking Noah death, lol||

[heady shadow]

<---too lazt to do bozja story btw
also dont have the ps4 atm i let the brother borrow it.
I dont have a second controlle ror I'd play pc

[torpid yoke]

Well it makes it so you can't reraise so it can't be too long

[crimson pollen]

Gabranth ||is now in position to plot from the shadows. Curiously, a 180 in the story. Now he is the one having to rely on these tactics||

[torpid yoke]

Guys dying he doesn't have much time left

[dim sigil]

But can Guy speak beaver

[brisk quail]

You know what'd be cool?

If they like doubled the drop amounts for all the fragments

Like the castrum exlcusive frags

Or the mob farmed frags

[torpid yoke]

Why? The frags from mobs are easy to farm

[brisk quail]

Not solo.

[tight marlin]

make it easier for the new bozja players

[tight marlin]

can confirm: i tried solo bozja a bit
i didnt touch bozja for months after

[brisk quail]

Anyways running out of beast, blood sucker or other stuff sucks

[torpid yoke]

Even so they are ready to farm

[brisk quail]

Like big suck time

If I can't do the succ as tank

I'm not a good tank

And with most of them sharing the pool between 3-4 other items

Farming for one SUCKS

[tight marlin]

tbh when i got back into bozja, i was lucky to be invited to this FATE farm group for like clusters and fragments

[brisk quail]

You can get like 20 and then end up with 2 blood suckers

[tight marlin]

i got so many fragments as a result which really helped me feel more motivated to play bozja again

[torpid yoke]

play another job while farming them

[brisk quail]

But the Mobs don't give exp or mettle either

So you're just wasting time you could be farming actual stuff that progresses you

[torpid yoke]

Then get to max and then farm

[brisk quail]

Not if you're going for Honors.

Honors are just as important as essence now

Could offset a HP loss from Infernal or irregular combined with bubble

Or make using a tanky essence more worthwhile

[gloomy shale]

can you farm lodestones?

[brisk quail]

Yes

[torpid yoke]

Then get all your honors and then farm

[brisk quail]

Mobs in the first zone drop em. At a low chance of course

[tight marlin]

i think the point is
unless you have a group, its just really tedious to farm fragments, an essential part of the bozja gameplay

[brisk quail]

As a solo player you have like one or two choices. Farming rank 1 mobs OR death spamming star mobs

Most of the stuff you want is from mobs, sprites and CLL

All of which usally drop pitiful amounts at rank 1

The best (most) jobs solo can manage is a rank 3 mob

[tight marlin]

and sometimes u need to use the fragments to power yourself up to even reliably take down mobs

[brisk quail]

Trying a rank 4 or 5 or even multiple mobs is a DEATH SENTENCE as a solo in bozja

[tight marlin]

honestly that one quest where u have to travel to the far northeast corner covered in Rank 5 mobs is just a dick move

u need a fucking stealth fragment or be a god at avoiding aggro range

but who would think "just hide lol"

[iron scaffold]

Stealth Action FTW

[gaunt star]

I can't believe they'd incentivize the use of a bozja action in bozja

[brisk quail]

That's the best feeling isn't it? You wanna do the thing but you get absolutely molly whopped cuz you don't have 5 WHM up your ass so you can survive against a rank 5 mob

Or you spend all the time healing and have 0 time to dps

[crystal arrow]

god forbid you need to... shudders group up with other people

[brisk quail]

So you're just waiting to die

[gaunt star]

that's the one with the dullhans too right

so you can just like wait for day

[crystal arrow]

undead mobs spawn only at night and despawn during the day

[pine epoch]

@maiden lodge so you know how famfrit Skirmish plays FF12 boss theme. Is it just me or was that the zodiac age version. also still pissed no FF12 boss theme orchestrion roll

[gloomy shale]

wait how do you get that bike again

[torpid yoke]

Get all the field notes

[gloomy shale]

is of of them in dialdra

[tight marlin]

ye that's the one

[brisk quail]

Bike?

[torpid yoke]

All of them in general. Note 1-40

[gloomy shale]

yee

[brisk quail]

Which one?

[tight marlin]

honestly the thing is that unless u got an entourage of backup, or a guidebook, u wouldnt know

like the first time i got some stat buff essences i was like
"WTF 80% ATTACK BOOST? 125% DEFENSE AND 50% HP? WHAT IS THIS WHY DIDNT I HAVE THIS"

[torpid yoke]

Guide book for wa

[tight marlin]

well....not necessarily guidebook, just a guide
i dunno why book came up lol

[torpid yoke]

They literally tell you all this information

Just...read. it's all in the game

[crystal arrow]

you just... need to read tooltips. and experiment.