retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[severe brook]

yeah it's fitting

i actually feel they're going beyond just sticking the aesthetics everywhere, since you can also tie it into how parts of Revelation were criticising worldly power and ideology and that's reflected with the collapse of Garlemald leading to the nihilism of Zenos and Fandaniel

[heady shadow]

they are clearly setting either Zenos or Fandaniel as the 'Beast'

[torpid yoke]

Then NA will plague JP and wont use macros

[mighty light]

Because they were extremely close friends for over half a decade

[vital topaz]

Is Fandaniel's true name Loki or something like that?

Fandaniel fits the trickster personality

[severe brook]

they have been sticking with Greek mythological figures for the Convocation so far, so they'll most likely stick to that
breaking it up and having different deities would be interesting, though

[late aurora]

Hermes is a trickster

[vital topaz]

Also:

[severe brook]

i actually guess that Elidibus may be Hermes

characterized as young
association with snakes
is the 'messenger'
patron of all who live by their wits

[vital topaz]

I see the similarities between FF9 Hades and FF14 Hades now

[severe brook]

and yeah, Hades' 14 design compiles together all his past iterations
we have the general design from 7, the large implement in the right hand from 9, the fanciful adornments from 11, etc.

[vital topaz]

The crystal that hades holds in FF14 looks so much better in game, I will admit

[severe brook]

also takes influence from Zalera, and Zodiark, and the wall of faces from 9 in Phase 2

[torpid yoke]

i want a big form like hades

[mighty light]

Loki is unfortunately not one of the gods Tacitus mentioned so we don't know who the Romans thought he was; Tacitus did say that Odin was Mercury/Hermes, though.

[vital topaz]

We role up to the core of the moon and Zodiark be lookin like he did in FF12:

Zodiark: "What? Is this about my looks!?! Stop Laughing! STOP LAUGHING! I WILL KILL ALL OF YOU!"

[mighty light]

Isn't that Echidna

[vital topaz]

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Zodiark_(Final_Fantasy_XII_boss)

[mighty light]

Yeah I didn't doubt that you were talking about an actual XII character; I'm wondering about that being Echidna's design in XIV

[torpid yoke]

its not exactly though she looks similar

[vital topaz]

How does one get promoted from an edgy catfish to a Reality Warping/Destroying Dark God that requires human sacrifices?

That's one hell of a promotion.

[mighty light]

Magic

[torpid yoke]

wasnt ff12 zodi like really dangerous?

amd this form is just baby

[turbid helm]

FFXIV zodiark is gonna have an 8 pack and a perfect jawline

[heady shadow]

gona make the erp'ers drool

just add tentacles.

[mighty light]

And then add more tentacles
Then more
Some more
Then take out all the human bits
Add a beak
There we're done

[torpid yoke]

i mean if the statues we see are zodiark we have at least a shape for what he looks like

[turbid helm]

Zodiark got hips

[tropic frigate]

ff12 zodiark has a pretty cool attack and an odd one at that

[severe brook]

i think we'll see Final Eclipse happen in some form

thirteen trails leading towards a central core

perhaps some method of forcibly merging Zodiark together without doing so to the rest of the Shards

[torpid yoke]

Someone will learn the graha/azem spell and summon zodi's pieces to the source Kappa

[severe brook]

i actually think it'll be comparable to what happened with us and Ardbert

[torpid yoke]

hm?

[severe brook]

in that we were able to 'rejoin' ourselves with the Shard-self being basically dead already, and the Source-self undergoing a massive internal shift
so something like that might happen to Zodiark, with his remaining Shard-fragments getting killed/consumed to forcibly rejoin them to his Source-fragment as that Source-fragment undergoes a significant shift
such as, for instance, someone forcibly taking the place of his Heart and warping Zodiark to act against his purpose

[tropic frigate]

or we wont see it restored at all unless we can travel to the first somehow

[severe brook]

well i also think that if this Final Eclipse occurs, it won't be very seamless

[gaunt star]

the moon zone will have different areas each plucked from a different shard to bring zodiark together

each one acts as like, i dunno a string of cheese to bring him to the source moon

[kindred rampart]

we head to the moon to find Zenos chewing on the last bits of the Zodiark statue

"Welcome! The table is set!"

[mighty light]

The table has a red and white checked tablecloth, upon which is set a statue of Hydaelyn

[kindred rampart]

"Time for the main course!"

[vital topaz]

Calling it right now, after we kill Fandaniel, Zenos, Zodiark, and Hydaelyn dies, the thing that caused The Sound comes out and kicks our ass, and we end up in Pandaemonium at the end of EW because we FUCKING DIED!

And then the world starts to warp again thanks to the creature

[wind bough]

Pandemonium is an optional side story raid series.

[vital topaz]

Oh.....ok yeah

[vital topaz]

Do you think Pandae will have voice acting?

[rain onyx]

none of the 8-mans/24-mans have had voice acting outside of the duties so probably not.

[wind bough]

Wouldn’t hold out hope for it.

Yeah definitely not in quests. Wouldn’t hold out hope for duties.

[vital topaz]

Lahabrea's HW Voice wasnt as good as his ARR Voice, change my mind.

[rain onyx]

sounded the same imo

not like he had much of a presence in HW

[vital topaz]

I hope he gets a better final quote than "What!?! ARRRGGHHHHHH!"

[dim sigil]

He wont

but he'll be expanded on i like to think

[vital topaz]

So, sounds like we'll finally get to see whats the deal with Lake Silvertear

in .55

[heady shadow]

maybe

trailers are..... can be, misleading

[torpid yoke]

ivalice did at points

[vital topaz]

I still wonder what would have happened if the Argrius had been allowed to fly over Mor Dhona without Middy interfering.

[clever flume]

ivalice didnt have voice acting during the quests

it was only during the raids themselves that it had voice acting

[vital topaz]

This is why, if someone ever was crazy enough to do it, a full FF14 Abridged Series would be interesting

Full voice acting for EVERYTHING

[wind bough]

Yep, just the three raid endbosses

[clever flume]

well all of orbonne was voice acted

[heady shadow]

you honestly would just get SUCH DEVASTATION every five lines

[mighty light]

All the Orbonne bosses had VA

[primal basalt]

give me an infinite budget and the best animators in the world, i have ideas

[vital topaz]

And that would be the beauty of it, my friend.

[heady shadow]

neh its honestly starting to be used so much im starting to not like it T^T

[wind bough]

Oh ye

Wait was Agrias?

[mighty light]

Yes

[clever flume]

ayep

[vital topaz]

Argath was

[clever flume]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ew-ClaIxnc

[vital topaz]

oh

[clever flume]

FOR HONOR!!

Yiazmat is still my favorite though tbh

[tropic frigate]

god i hate yiazmat for how spammy his voice lines were

[dim sigil]

BABERS BLADE

Shush its great

[primal basalt]

empiah is a cancah

[clever flume]

THE EMPIRE IS A CANCER and I am the barber's blade

[wind bough]

Like a knife through butter!

[vital topaz]

What's the deal with 8 mans/24 mans not having VAing (most of the time)? Lazyness/not considered important enough?

[clever flume]

voice acting is expensive

[dim sigil]

Budget, schedules

[mighty light]

Okay just as like
A general rule
The answer to a question like that is almost never going to be "laziness"

[dim sigil]

Like what is with people going with laziness anyway with stuff like this

[clever flume]

msq is going to ultimately take highest priority in terms of what gets VA work

if they have budget/time then they'll likely give consideration to the raids/alliance raids

[clever flume]

because its easy to assume laziness

[mighty light]

They don't have infinite time to work on these projects
They need to ship them eventually, and if they don't get sufficient returns on their investment, the project is going to shut down
So they need to pick and choose where they invest their time, effort, and money
If you want to be lazy on the job, you do not go into game dev.

[vital topaz]

Interestingly, Ray Chase did this for free: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIcmyPL3nRA

[clever flume]

also doesn't help that most people don't understand/know how much work is actually put into this kind of stuff

same people who go "But x can do y, why can't z do it too??"

[primal basalt]

same people who go "just stop being poor"

[vital topaz]

Ray Chase has only VA'd Noctis in FF14, right?

[torpid yoke]

yea but thats because he wanted to in his free time

[mighty light]

People who work for free in positions like that actually suck
Not from a quality perspective but from a "if you're actually filling a need here you are taking a job away from somebody who actually does need the money, or, worse, devaluing the job itself"

[tropic frigate]

noctis was voice acted in 14?

[clever flume]

pretty sure he wasnt

[torpid yoke]

no

[vital topaz]

I think its pretty safe to assume Ray Chase will be coming back as MoM in Kingdom Hearts Phase 2

[mighty light]

I haven't played a Kingdom Hearts game and I don't know who Ray Chase is

[torpid yoke]

ray chase is MoM

[mighty light]

I
Don't know who MoM is either

[vital topaz]

Master of Masters

[mighty light]

gdi

[torpid yoke]

that literally means nothing to someone that has never played a kh game

But yes Ray chase has voiced MoM since back cover

[vital topaz]

Let me put it in simple terms for you: "Chase voice Noct in FF15"

[mighty light]

FFXIV is the only Final Fantasy game I've played.

Aside from a few minutes of X like ten years ago.

[tropic frigate]

i played ffxiv first and xv second

then played 6 all the way through and some of 12 and 8

[vital topaz]

Wow you must REALLLY miss out on the references

[mighty light]

I mean
FFXIV is written in such a way that for the most part it doesn't really make a difference.

[clever flume]

^

[vital topaz]

Stone Lich every time he sees a character thats not from FF14 and is instead from a different FF Game, probably:
"Who the fuck is that?"

[clever flume]

i am the same, that the only ff games i've actually played to completion is 13

[mighty light]

I think the only time I've ever said that is during the NieR raid

[clever flume]

so largely consider this to be my only FF game played

[vital topaz]

Considering how the FF13 Crossover was years ago and is never coming back, I feel your pain.

[torpid yoke]

Ive played FFCC :D

[clever flume]

not like the cross over was that amazing

[torpid yoke]

They should do a ffcc raid :D

[tropic frigate]

people freaking out over what is from what makes me understand where they are from plus i have a few bits of knowledge where things are from

[vital topaz]

Didnt they do the Switch Port extremely dirty?

[torpid yoke]

Idk but i wouldn't be surprised. They always do FFCC dirty

[mighty light]

Yeah, I mostly learn that things are references from hanging out in here. It doesn't really change how I enjoy the game's lore, though; people make fun of FFXIV for being basically a Greatest Hits collection but. Again, the story is written so that people with absolutely no knowledge of the series are not losing out on anything if they go in completely blind.

[torpid yoke]

Maybe they will port my life as a king and life as a dark lord to switch eventually

or even crystal bearers :D

well i mean yoshi-p has called 14 an amusment park of other Final fantasys

[clever flume]

rommy helps me understand most of the refences

[vital topaz]

You should put this on your wishlist

[clever flume]

and lyon. the way people discuss them are basically enough for me to get them

[mighty light]

Do I have to

[tropic frigate]

damn i havent seen ffxiv be the greatest hits collection

[vital topaz]

should does not equal have to, but you did tell me that was the other FF game you played, and plus, putting it on your wishlist will notify you when its on sale.

[tropic frigate]

they feel like they always try to put their own spin on it for the final bosses

eden not really being yknow

omega turning into something different

[mighty light]

I mean I probably didn't have the brainpower to appreciate it at the time, but also, like
Trying to play X and having a really bad experience with it was what set me against basically all turn-based games for like a decade.

[tropic frigate]

to a few other examples and basically the stories behind em

[vital topaz]

How old were you when you first played X?

[tropic frigate]

this expansions final tier felt pretty weak to me at least the final boss

[mighty light]

I genuinely do not remember, but not that old.

I'm 25 now, and it was at least a decade ago.

[vital topaz]

OH NO WAY YOU CAN GET 12 ON PC!?!

[mighty light]

Yep

[tulip geyser]

Yeh for a while now

[vital topaz]

I thought it was only on PS4 and Switch

[mighty light]

That one I actually have been looking at getting, though partially out of spite

[vital topaz]

Curious, why spite?

[mighty light]

Because somebody I knew used to go on extensive rants about how much they hated it

And it didn't look bad to me

[vital topaz]

Its very good, and its combat system is kind of like FF14

in a way.

[somber storm]

FF12 PC took a while to get the QOL changes from the Switch version

[vital topaz]

is FF14 the first MMOJRPG?

[somber storm]

no

[primal basalt]

ff11 exists

[somber storm]

MH mmos exist

[mighty light]

Dragon's Dogma Online happened

[somber storm]

DQ10 JP exclusive mmorpg

Phantasy Star

[vital topaz]

Oh, you mean that game that MaximillianDood and HappyConsoleGamer got addicted to, temporarily fucking up their social lives, and that game where Pandaemonium Warden sent 1 dude to the hospital for exhaustion?

[tulip geyser]

Ah the glory days of MMOs lol

[vital topaz]

I dont get it, why did MaximillianDood and HappyConsoleGamer get addicted to FF11?

[mighty light]

I think you'd be better off getting access to a medical journal database and looking the condition up there

[clever flume]

aka looking at why anyone gets addicted to online games

[vital topaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zaTEb5ebJ4

[torpid yoke]

Depression?

[clever flume]

is a pretty common reason

[torpid yoke]

Thats my reason :D. And being lonely

[vital topaz]

I kinda wish I was around for FF11

[torpid yoke]

And because im stupid :p and cause rifts

[vital topaz]

Im 22, so I really didnt get to experience FF11 at all

[mighty light]

FF11 is still up

[heady shadow]

most people who played ffxi were pretty bad]

[slate badger]

ff11 sounds like a nostalgiac pain in the ass

[heady shadow]

some peopel forced themselves to stop playing because their personal lifes were going through the dumps

[dawn wave]

i played a bit of ff11 free trial recently and it just feels way too dated to be really playable for me

[torpid yoke]

I asked someone who played ff11 what it was like.

[slate badger]

like, an mmo very indicative of that era of mmo

[heady shadow]

some went as far as giving stuff away, deleting characters, putting it all into a box and shoving it into a storage

[torpid yoke]

I summed it up to: Menu managment the game

[mighty light]

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/index.shtml

[slate badger]

whatever works for them

[vital topaz]

I feel like you cant get addicted enough to FF14 to where it ruins your life like FF11 did. FF14 is a nice supplement to your life, one of the best timekillers you could ask for

[mighty light]

Almost guarantee that people can and have

[dawn wave]

^

[dim sigil]

What ff can't you get on pc really

[mighty light]

I know people have to WoW, and FFXIV isn't
Less like that than WoW.

[primal basalt]

legitemately?

1 and 2

[vital topaz]

FF1 and 2

[slate badger]

emulation

well, get legally?

[dawn wave]

we’re not talking about emulation since that means everything’s on PC then

[vital topaz]

why is there maint tomorrow?

[primal basalt]

stuff needs fixin'

[clever flume]

hotfixes

[clever flume]

you're sorely mistaken if you honestly believe this

[vital topaz]

Gives me an excuse to clean dust outta my computer then

[dim sigil]

Man the 1 n 2 psp ports need to get off the psp

[clever flume]

you really don't understand how bad an addictive personality can be

[dim sigil]

Make it an excuse to go to bed on time for once

[dawn wave]

it’s very easy to get addicted to ffxiv lol

[vital topaz]

I used to be addicted to Dota 2, and I hated it

very toxic game, that.

[torpid yoke]

I have because HAHA i suck irl and humans need social

[vital topaz]

The difference between Dota 2 and FF14, is that I can get stuff done with FF14, whereas with dota, I'm glued to a chair for 1-2 hours depending on how long games go

[obsidian pagoda]

Oh hey another Dota 2 survivor

[vital topaz]

1200+ hours of dota 2....fuck that game man

[obsidian pagoda]

I only watch the pros these days, or play the seasonal events. I refuse to set foot in anything else lmao

[tulip geyser]

Im kinda glad I never got into mobas.
I'm already a misanthrope; dont need more of that

[dawn wave]

only 1200 hours?

[vital topaz]

TLDR of Dota 2:

1. Death Threats
2. Racial Slurs
3. Insults on skills
4. Being told to go Not Alive yourself
   5 And just general toxicity

Basically Call of Duty Xbox Lobbies if they were given steroids and cocaine

Am I missing any?

[tulip geyser]

Sounds about right

I did play Smite for a little bit

[obsidian pagoda]

Try being a girl. It's really fun

[somber storm]

and that's why I only play against bots nowadays in mobas

[dawn wave]

generally i find that the more free-to-play/accessible a game is, the more toxic the community is

[vital topaz]

The only toxicity I encountered in FF14 so far was in Eureka, and that was basically a very mild Great Value Brand Hot Sauce kind of toxicity.

[obsidian pagoda]

Honestly XIV is like mayonnaise toxic in game. You can just ignore them most of the time and if you get kicked or whatever there are plenty of other stuff to do to improve your morale. MOBAs and any kind of game that's competitive is just a shitshow.

[vital topaz]

Were you around for Call of Duty Xbox 360 Lobbies? I wasnt. Well, I was, but my parents knew better than to let their kid play games like that.

[somber storm]

good old cod lobbies

[dawn wave]

ffxiv is so vanilla toxic you kinda forget what other multiplayer games are like

[vital topaz]

IIRC, people dropped the N word with the hard R in those, amongst other degenerate stuff.

[obsidian pagoda]

Fucking A I was around. All my homies only played Battlefield or CS back in the days cause CoD was so toxic. People didn't expect that anything was going to be worse than late night CS 1.6 but there it was.

[somber storm]

Good old Counter Strike toxicity

and f2p CSGO

[obsidian pagoda]

1.6 was mild af, at least the Aussie servers anyway. Good ol' Internode.

[vital topaz]

The first FPS I really invested my time into as a teen was probably TF2

[vital topaz]

The 2 things I remember out of CSGO, even tho I have never played:

1. DOORSTUCK!
2. Several famous youtubers who tried scamming kiddies out of their money by illegally promotting CSGO Gambling websites.

[somber storm]

Doorstuck is from the earlier CS games

[vital topaz]

While the 2nd one was from CSGO

God, you have to be a real scumbag for that second one

[obsidian pagoda]

Esports gambling is a total wild west. Literally 0 safeguards for minors.

I'm not looking forward trying to explain to my kids about internet dangers, we were so lucky these craps didn't exist back then.

[somber storm]

Looks at Australia taking a dip in esports gambling

[somber storm]

I'm just lucky that I was too stupid to get into that

the pokies

[mighty light]

Love to see Silicon Valley execs involved with 'child-friendly' social media being like "no screens allowed in this household"

[obsidian pagoda]

I won a hundred bucks out of $2 at the casino once lol. I quit on a high note But now there's even online casinos and stuff that's just accessible by anyone smart enough to fake their ID.

[placid sail]

it's long overdue that they make a legal framework for online gambling in this damn country so that I can finally download PSO2 through Steam

[placid sail]

don't me, I have no intention of gambling in PSO2 but it's not made available through Steam here because we dont'have a legal framework for it

[tropic frigate]

wot

o so you cant get it where you are on steam?

[placid sail]

yeah

and the windows store version is hilariously broken

it has a terminal case of windows store bullshittery

[tropic frigate]

yea i hate windows store

i literally tried everything and i eventually used a friends pc to transfer data

[heady shadow]

just use tweaker

[tropic frigate]

even tweaker didnt save me

[heady shadow]

rip

[placid sail]

tweaker worked for a week or so

but then the windows store caught up and fucked up my installation for like the third time

something genuinely snapped within me, i cancelled my gamepass

i am so sick of microsoft's broken ass shitty services

[gaunt star]

Wkndows store but they let you actually install to your d drive 😒

That's the only thing i dont understand and still pisses me off

[balmy mesa]

I don't even know how MS could fuck up downloads so badly

[gaunt star]

Sorry, only to my C* drive

Which i had just enough space for thankfully. But then i had to bloody transfer it to my D drive after (it was nier so)

[somber storm]

tfw you remembered the mogglesguard are tempered

[torpid yoke]

lunar king moogle mog

[crystal arrow]

glory be to garlemald, kupo!

[somber storm]

!lsearch hail to the kupo

[lusty shadow]

Lore Entries Matching "hail to the kupo"

NPC Dialog

Hail to the kupo─I mean, king!

Page 1 of 1

[stiff charm]

lunar moggle mog might honestly be a thing, dungeon boss or solo instance maybe

[somber storm]

lunar moggle mog going all KH with the song fight

[late willow]

I support the Alphinaud and Estinien bromance

[somber storm]

Big bro Estinien

[carmine basin]

My personal interpretation is that he sees the little brother he lost in Alphinaud. And now he gets to have a(n unwilling) sister with Alisaie

[kind lark]

Pretty sure Aymeric says the same thing so I guess its canon.

[severe brook]

we all thought Odin would be the Shroud Lunar Primal but it's Moggle Mog instead

[placid sail]

shut up

[severe brook]

summoned by hordes of screaming moogles stuck in a tower

[torpid yoke]

im ok with that

[gaunt star]

If i see even the slightest smidge of a pom I'm gonna get you for this blitz

[carmine basin]

I actually like moogles so I don't mind if they show up again. Especially if it comes with a remix of the king moogle theme

[teal geyser]

Show me your pom

[dawn wave]

im gonna depom them. i have scissors

[carmine basin]

https://c.tenor.com/T4z5xdp-5zcAAAAM/ffxiv-ff14.gif

[kind lark]

Stop moogle abuse

[proper frigate]

Thornmarch (Unreal)

[late willow]

Its because Odin isn't summoned through faith or worship

So he couldn't be the Shroud's lunar primal

[severe brook]

i mean Lunar Odin is showing up in some way
so they have to have manifested him in the Lunar method by some means

[wet crown]

Yes, he could.

All it takes is to supress Zantetsuken in some way.

[severe brook]

now maybe they did that by getting ahold of Zantetsuken and tempering it to Garlemald, since we know Primals can be tempered by other Primals
but we have no sign of that being the case yet

[stiff charm]

calling it now, zenos uses zantetsuken for 5.55 and scythe reveal is in 6.0 opening cutscene

[clever flume]

i mean odin can still be summoned by people. all you need is the concept/desire + aether

[wet crown]

If you wanna get technical...I guess.

[late willow]

But the entire point of the towers is to subjugate beast tribes and force them to summon the lunar version of their primal

[wet crown]

Since Odin is just a host, there could be an Odin primal.

[late willow]

You don't need an entire tower to summon Odin

[wet crown]

You don't need an entire tower to summon Ifrit either.

They do it anyway because it makes them stronger.

[late willow]

We're specifically talking about the Lunar primals though

[wet crown]

I'm aware.

[late willow]

So the Shroud's lunar primal couldn't have been Odin, since there is no beast tribe oe following of Odin

[severe brook]

also it might be that the Towers are the mechanism for tempering people and primals to Garlemald/the Telophoroi

so even if they wouldn't need a Tower to summon him, they may still need one to control him

[clever flume]

i mean we see lunar odin in the trailer, there is a tower is in south shroud. urth's fount is south shroud

[late willow]

Huh

[clever flume]

there's no reason for it to be anyone else

[wet crown]

Did you jump in here without watching the trailer first?

[severe brook]

yeah i was going to say, we know Lunar Odin's coming

[wet crown]

I was wondering why you'd argue against Odin when he is clearly visible in the trailer.

[torpid yoke]

just get someone with the echo to subjugate odin, temper people to odin. and trap them in a tower, Easy :D

[severe brook]

if we hadn't seen it, then i would guess the South Shroud Tower would bring forth Moggle Mog or maybe Ramuh

[wet crown]

Zantetsuken is the primal. Not Odin.

[torpid yoke]

you know what i meant

[severe brook]

could be that they captured Zantetsuken and sealed it in a Tower to turn it towards Garlemald

[late willow]

How did I miss that

[severe brook]

thus it now turns its thrall into Lunar Odin

[wet crown]

If the new host for Zantetsuken can supress its will, then I see no problem with it being used.

[clever flume]

looks like he's also being fought in cartenaeu

[wet crown]

I'm just happy Odin is relevant for once.

[torpid yoke]

turns out to be raiden Kappa

[jolly kite]

Zeno new sword and he turns ppl in to odin?!

[severe brook]

i feel like Zenos' new weapon just being Zantetsuken would be disappointing
i don't think they're having all this buildup just for it to be a primal, especially not one we've already seen

[wet crown]

There is no way Zantetsuken would be sticking around with a bunch of other shitty weapons in the palace.

[dim sigil]

Well if it's going to be that first think of what reason fandan would call odins sword an apt choice

[torpid yoke]

Nah zenos isnt the hint. Gaius is the hint towards the new job since his new attack translates to yellow death and yoshidas shirts have referenced the grim reaper and the only reference we've had to the word reaper is garlemald with their magitek reaper :). Zenos will just use a weapon that already exists in game :)

[stiff charm]

zenos will use the dusk vigil level 44 dungeon paladin sword :)

[wet crown]

What!? The new job has been teased since the first time an NPC used Terminus Est!?!?!?

[severe brook]

that new attack is called "Yellow Death" because "Crocea Mors" was the name of Julius Caesar's sword, and Gaius is a Julius Caesar reference

[forest magnet]

we got like, literally 0 hints for gunbreaker or dancer in the game

[teal geyser]

Was about to say there Xuan

[dim sigil]

I feel like it's a so heavily hinting towards a death themed related weapon with fan Daniels line. If it's not it just feels like bad writing

[severe brook]

yeah, a scythe feels most likely to me

[torpid yoke]

im just repeating something ive been seeing on the fourms XD

[severe brook]

once again the forums cause me pain

[dim sigil]

If you don't go to the forms to get a laugh you're doing it wrong

[wet crown]

Hey guys, the new job is necromancer. Just ignore everything the MSQ and side quests have told us about necromancy and trust me.

[torpid yoke]

i go to certain parts to get a laugh.

[severe brook]

on a side note i've come around to the scythe Job being named Exorcist instead of Reaper
has a better ring to it

[torpid yoke]

i still say it'll be warlock

[wet crown]

Because you enjoyed Undo?

[torpid yoke]

though i say that because i think it'd be extremely funny if it was

[wet crown]

Undo Trois ~<3

A new mage job is most likely for 7.0

together with a Scouting DPS

[stuck yarrow]

Can we still discuss stuff from the EW showcase in here

[gaunt star]

Guys it has to be apothecary ok it was teased in 5.3 okayyy we need a chemist

[severe brook]

we can

[gaunt star]

3 weeks till fanfest my how the time flies

[stuck yarrow]

If this is the WHM AF5 it might be my fave WHM AF yet

[torpid yoke]

also another thing i keep seeing is that people think the sice hair style being added back is a hint to the new job and its like.....wai

[torpid yoke]

most likely yes

[wet crown]

Sice used a scythe.

People go hardcore for their glamour.

[forest magnet]

6.0 -> Sice

[stiff charm]

sice.0

[gaunt star]

I’m telling y’all it’s gonna be chemist!!

[torpid yoke]

i know sice used a scythe im saying its not really good grounds for "evidence"/hint

[stuck yarrow]

Yeah I mean it almost definitely is, I just don't wanna call it AF5 and then have it turn out that it's somehow not

[gaunt star]

Could also be Viking

[stuck yarrow]

The toeless black boots are a little odd tho

[next quarry]

omg I would love viking

[wet crown]

The evidence is the top of the scythe seen in the EW trailer, as well as Yoshi-P's shirts and the comment Fandaniel made about Zenos's new toy with the context in mind of his speech in the 5.5 trailer.

[stuck yarrow]

We already got a cool new healer I'm cool with whatever weird shit they come up with for the melee

[torpid yoke]

i mean we all know what the melee is gonna be. It's obvious

[tulip geyser]

Im gonna see that pic every day until Fanfest arent I

[dim sigil]

And after

[stuck yarrow]

Scythe would be cool

I'd also be up for like a rune fencer type thing

[dim sigil]

That's just rdm

[stuck yarrow]

Shhhhhh

[wet crown]

That's just RDM.

[stuck yarrow]

Fanfest can't come soon enough

[torpid yoke]

maybe. Depends on altani as well since its their picture

[dim sigil]

What I really want is Chocobo Knight

Maybe that's what is Zeno's pulled out

[teal geyser]

pulling out

[stiff charm]

no no he pulled somethign else out

[torpid yoke]

nah zenos is gonna be catmancer

[dim sigil]

Yes yes I'll be sure to do that for him

[wet crown]

Don't make fun of Minette

[tulip geyser]

I would take some BD classes ngl

[dim sigil]

Do they even have anything that's just not a final fantasy job but different name

[teal geyser]

If you wanna be catmancer just date Y'shtola

[wet crown]

Exorcist

Guardian

Hawkeye

Patissier
Charioteer
Yokai
Kaiser

[torpid yoke]

she dies too much to do that

[wet crown]

Rest can be viewed as recolors/repurposes of other jobs

[teal geyser]

Dw she still has...5 lives left?

[dim sigil]

That's enough to last at least 7 expansions

[torpid yoke]

she'll lose 3 in EW alone

[wet crown]

Y'shtola will get the next mage job, calling it now.

[torpid yoke]

i dont think she will

[stiff charm]

reminded of the "if yshtola can see peoples aether" reddit post

[torpid yoke]

?

[stiff charm]

dont ask

[kind lark]

Quick shoutout to Soken.

[oak pike]

man this channel gonna fucking die tomorrow

[indigo shale]

itll probably be back after fanfest renamed to 5.55 spoilers/hype or something

[prime stag]

if yshtola can see ppls Aether can she see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch??

[gaunt star]

We'll just talk about the same stuff here in Lore Spoilers, so nothing will change too much

[brazen stag]

Yes, it's the whorls of cinnamon sugar in every bite.

[kindred rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/742643125981413447/832629539901145108/1618584730136.mp4

[silk cape]

I really think there's a space for Rune Fencer/Rune Knight to exist alongside RDM/DRK/PLD. I'm not going to be mad if we get Reaper instead, but I am starting to feel more like "lol Rune Fencer is just Red Mage" is more meme than earnest argument.

[gaunt star]

The new class will be Android

Job gear will be the yorha armor set we’re still missing and the job quests will conclude the nier raid series story

[stiff charm]

if that gives us automata moveset as 123 combo im down

[dusk drift]

red mage is a caster that sometimes does melee
rune fencer is a melee that sometimes casts

[teal geyser]

Same but it really depends what kind of aesthetics and stuff the sycthe job goes down

[dusk drift]

reaper is just rebranded rune fencer 👀

[silk cape]

Yeah, there may not be space for Rune Fencer and REAPER to exist at the same time. But that gets into the similar space of folks wanting Viking or Berserker when WAR is already a thing.

[maiden lodge]

Of course there is. Anyone who's played a final fantasy game in the series with RDM and Rune Fencers in it would never say they're the same thing.

RDM: Uses white and black magics, often casting twice or fast.
RUN/Mystic Knight: Casts a spell on their weapon unleashing it with their attack.

These are not the same thing.

[wet crown]

A melee who sometimes casts? Sounds an awful lot like PLD

[teal geyser]

Do your /s right now

[maiden lodge]

Sounds like half the malees in teh game, meh.

[silk cape]

RDM in 11 is pretty different from how it is in 14.

[maiden lodge]

Most jobs in 11 are pretty different from how it is in every other game.

[wet crown]

[maiden lodge]

But sure, a melee that casts, will probably step on the toes of RDM, PLD, DRK, NIN, and SAM who all have some measure of casting/magic/melee in their kit in one sense or another, and as we know, a melee with magic is something we can't add because it step on the toes of all these other jobs.

Of course, these jobs don't step on each others toes somehow...

[wet crown]

I was actually just going by definition of cast times

[maiden lodge]

Yes which is pretty damn arbitrary.

[teal geyser]

Honestly Rune doesn't even need cast times. It can just have magick in its animations

[maiden lodge]

Imbuing a weapon with magic to unleash could be a cast spell. Or it could be an instant spell. or it could be an Ability. None of those things are excluded from the job identity of 'Buddy who casts magic on sword in order to do fight with'

[wet crown]

So why do you want rune fencer, when we already have plenty melee focused jobs with magic damage?

talk about arbitrary

[maiden lodge]

Because the idea of enchanting a sword with fire and or lightning and or ice is fucking kickass.

[teal geyser]

Because en-spells are fucking insanely fun. Also can argue the same thing with the obvious magic using scythe job

[maiden lodge]

And none of the jobs you mentioned do that.

[teal geyser]

Except like, one SAM move

[maiden lodge]

Unlike Reaper, which, let's be fucking honest, is just people horny for a DPS Dark Knight/the necromancer you were told is never happening

And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But that's all it is.

[wet crown]

Trying to find the part that describes the lore aspect behind the RDM melee combo. Which I'm sure is really just that - enchanting the weapon

[brisk quail]

It's just enchanting with random unaspected Mavic

[stiff charm]

no no, its verenchanting, different

[brisk quail]

If any class would get an enchanted attack thing at this rate it'd be BLU

[wet crown]

yh but I'm trying to get the source before I'm being called out on it

[raven patrol]

[wet crown]

Gentleman Bird, help me find some lore

[brisk quail]

Angery

[silk cape]

I'm pretty sure it's in X'rhun's text from early in the RDM chain. Accumulate free radical aether from casting minor black and white magic, build that up to a critical mass around the blade, dash in to deliver it in explosive form. It's not enchanting the blade with magic as much as just using it as a delivery mechanism.

[spiral mica]

too bad rdm is a lame and weak ass version of that idea, and the class is boring and sucks

[torpid yoke]

I'd rather have that for a gun hammer job than a scythe wielding job

[spiral mica]

its just a proc caster, with a melee combo thrown in

[torpid yoke]

Plus imbue weapon with element and attack seems lame to me in the setting of ff14

[spiral mica]

if the new melee maiming DPS is anything other than a sword magic class, im not gonna like it

even if its fun and cool as fuck

[pastel coyote]

It will be a scythe, you know it

[spiral mica]

nah, im holding out hope

[torpid yoke]

That hope seems like it's gonna be dashed if you want that.

[spiral mica]

let me cling, ok?

[wet crown]

It's like when the WHMs clamoured for DNC to be a healer

you'll take the fall

[mighty light]

Wait, did they?

[wet crown]

oh yes, they did and it was hilarious

[pastel coyote]

Nah it's a good thing he keep hope, it will be even better when it die

[mighty light]

Like I knew a lot of people wanted DNC to be a healer, but didn't know it was specifically a WHM thing

[tight marlin]

I mean it could work well but they cant be lame about it because a lot of attacks have similar effects

[spiral mica]

lmao true true

[wet crown]

reaper will rip the hope from your torso with that scythe

[torpid yoke]

I'm not saying it can't work I just feel like the traditional imbue sword with element then attack is kinda meh

[maiden lodge]

Basically, RDM has a lot of residual aether when it casts. Some of it is transformed into other aether through the chainspell effect.

However, some of the aether collects. Because RDM is resolutely against either drawing from or dumping aether into the environment, they instead use a metal rod to store that residual aether. (Kinda like a lightning rod or heat sink)

When they build enough 'trash aether', they need to do something with it. An Ishgardian fencer taught them the ways of the smallsword, so the metal rod became a rapier, and that's how the melee combo works--it's dumping mana into a target rather than dissipating it into the environment.

[mighty light]

RDM also uses basically their entire body as a focus

[tight marlin]

What about elemental combos
And also make it so that the element doesnt go away in the first attack. Make it a constant. Almost like a lightsaber that's still activated

[torpid yoke]

There was this one ff character in the earlier games that imbues his hammer with elements. I think it was a cid

[maiden lodge]

RDM does not enchant their sword.

[bold condor]

They do.

[mighty light]

They're effectively combination casters and martial artists in that sense.

[maiden lodge]

Their sword collects garbage aether, and they make sure to use ALL the aether, due to their lore as environmental mages.

[bold condor]

That's still enchanting.

[tight marlin]

That's still a form of enchantment

[wet crown]

[maiden lodge]

....ehh.... it's not the same as deliberately casting a spell on the metal rod.

[oak pike]

that sounds like enchanting

[spiral mica]

Mystic Knight rules, Red Mage drools. The end.

[bold condor]

It honestly would not be a stretch of the imagination to just

[torpid yoke]

I just wouldn't want rune knight to feel lame is all

[maiden lodge]

You might as well call a Gunbreaker a Mystic Knight then, because that's what their cartridges do, by that logic

[bold condor]

Aspect the fucken enchanted moves

[bold condor]

That's not what I said.

[wet crown]

Rommy, ignore him. He's in denial.

[bold condor]

jfc. Literally all I said was that Enchanted X is enchanting and you wanna extrapolate shit

[torpid yoke]

Imbue rdm weapon with water damnit

[bold condor]

Fuck it. I'm out.

[tight marlin]

Make water in 14 useful

[pine epoch]

whats going on here

[maiden lodge]

I get it, but it's not the same as in the sense or context of a mystic knight.

[tight marlin]

[teal geyser]

Rommy never said it was?

Just you could expand on it to do that?

[tight marlin]

Rommy: it's not like this
WELL THEN ITS OBVIOUSLY GUNBREAKER
like where the fuck did gunbreaker come from

[maiden lodge]

If you want to call it enchanting---sure, but I'm attempting to make a distinction between what mystic knight would do, and what RDM does actually do. And calling them both 'enchanting', while you can argue is technically correct, is obfucating that distinction.

[bold condor]

What Mystic Knight does in FFXIV is nothing because it doesn't exist in FFXIV.

[teal geyser]

Make up a better term then

[tight marlin]

Enchantment is a broad definition lol

[torpid yoke]

Honestly if I had it my way I would give rune knight gun hammer and have them use gnb catrage system and have their combo be more free flowing like monks

Use different combinations for different effects

[bold condor]

And other games don't help because other games don't have fucking FFXIV lore.

[maiden lodge]

I mean there's a difference between imbuing a sword with mystic power as a primary purpose, and using it as a dump for excess mana.

[tight marlin]

Mystic Knight is just Cloud's moveset cuz he was supposed to be designed as a mystic knight in ff7

Your 1 2 3 is Heavy Slash Sonic Break Braver or some shit

[teal geyser]

Yes but the difference isn't one is enchanting and one isn't so back to my comment. Make a better term

[maiden lodge]

And I'm calling that deliberate imbuing 'enchanting' as an active verb, as opposed to what a RDM which is less of a primary action and more of using a side effect.

[bold condor]

I don't care.

[maiden lodge]

I've clarified what I meant

[clever flume]

Honestly, this sounds like being pendantic about the term 'enchanting'

[bold condor]

Which is unnecessary because I wasn't arguing.

[tight marlin]

Is this a ff14 argument or an argument on definitions of a verb that is almost exclusively used in fantasy media

[clever flume]

so fucking let drop and stop being stupid about this

[bold condor]

All I did was say "Enchanted X" is enchanted.

[torpid yoke]

Though y'all know what I want for the next melee to be so I don't need to post it

[bold condor]

I don't get why you're acting like I gave a diatribe about why RDM is totally Mystic Knight.

[maiden lodge]

And in the process you were causing my point to become obsfucated.

[pine epoch]

I came into this late, So I don't really know what you 2 are arguing whether mystic knight can or cant be in 14. or if its just a argument about the term enchanting.

[tight marlin]

RDM is mystic knight without the knight armor

[bold condor]

I'm so sorry that I chimed in with inconvenient information.

[mighty light]

It's not just a side effect. RDM discovered that they could use the excess aether in that way, by enchanting their weapon and thereby drastically increasing its effectiveness, and made it into an important part of their martial art. Acting like it's not major part of how they fight is IMO kind of disingenuous.

[teal geyser]

Latter

[maiden lodge]

It's not germane to the point I was trying to make.

[tight marlin]

@pine epoch the 2nd part
It's so dumb I love it

[bold condor]

Next time I'll make sure not to insert any knowledge where it's not welcome.

[clever flume]

Stop it

[maiden lodge]

And so I clarified the point I was trying to make.

[torpid yoke]

is there any explanation on what happens with plds requiescat

[bold condor]

Why am I beholden to your point? I don't work for you.

[clever flume]

Move on to something else for fuck's sake

[pine epoch]

Gonna agree with Kael.

[oak pike]

[tight marlin]

So heres a thought
WAR 90 is just Spectral Berserker moves

[clever flume]

And seriously, Dis. Stop with this shit because you honestly know its a pedantic point to make and you're being a jerk about it

[mighty light]

https://tenor.com/view/thomas-the-tank-engine-trains-crash-wreck-fail-gif-3483319

[tight marlin]

We get a salted earth move that increases fell cleave damage

[maiden lodge]

Excuse me, no I am not.

[torpid yoke]

I don't think he really has that many different things than current war

[maiden lodge]

I'm not being a jerk about it. I was trying to restore things back to my original point and then painted out to be the villain for doing so. I was not impolite about it. So, no, excuse you, I was NOT being a jerk about it.

Take that back.

[tight marlin]

Maybe that ranged slash wave we could get as a separate cooldown that does more dps than decimate but less than chaos cyclone

[bold condor]

Dis, chill. I wasn't attacking or trying to obfuscate your point, I was just stating a fact.

[maiden lodge]

You do not get to say 'drop it' and then say 'Also you're being a jerk.'

[pine epoch]

calm down please.

[teal geyser]

[maiden lodge]

You owe me an apology for that.

[bold condor]

I mean, no, Kael doesn't.

[tight marlin]

U know what I want WAR to have? More attack buttons
It has less buttons than DRK

[maiden lodge]

And wearing orange is not an excuse or cover for being a jerk yourself.

[mighty light]

Okay
I think this should probably be taken to DMs

[torpid yoke]

Nah I don't think they would do that. They want to keep the amount of buttons down and that would kinda be unnecessary

[bold condor]

If I'm being a jerk and won't drop something, no one in here hesitates to tell me both.

[clever flume]

I will not because you are being a jerk by trying to force this pedantic points like this

[pulsar current]

get out the popcorn

[tight marlin]

Why is the raging battleaxe user have less attacks than magic sword darkman

[maiden lodge]

a) I was NOT the one trying to force a pedantic point.

[clever flume]

and if you don't like it, then feel free to open a mod mail about it

[tight marlin]

I mean fair but imo how many qols and upgrades to previous skills can u stuff before a new button is "needed"

[maiden lodge]

b) I was, as a response, trying to clarify my point as to avoid the pedantry.

[mighty light]

Dis just do the mod mail thing if you think it's a genuine abuse of orange; pushing it like this isn't worth it

[tight marlin]

Inner chaos and chaos cyclone is just the rage spenders upgraded by infuriate for example. I think WAR for example in ShB only got like...1 new button? 2?

[torpid yoke]

True. I still feel it'd be kinda unnecessary to have that particular move though, considering that pld could also be given it

[tight marlin]

Then theres DRK for 1 that has so many fucking buttons to mash
And then bard is just mashing every button

[maiden lodge]

There's a limit to how many buttons you can reasonably add to a job, though. Something generally has to get pruned for something else to get added after a certain point. Some jobs are at that point paladin is definately there

[pulsar current]

GNB has it worse than PLD but the point still stands

[maiden lodge]

GNB actually doesn't. GNB can fit on two XHBs. PLD can't.

[wet crown]

You could just add the condensed combo keys from PVP and instantly free up many slots for jobs. DRG could go from 7 keys to 2.

[pulsar current]

no? not for me at least

[torpid yoke]

Fck my gnb hotbars man. I don't play it for this reason

[tight marlin]

I actually feel fine when it comes to PLD
Then again I also yeet leg sweep cuz that's garbage lol

[tight marlin]

Theres an argument for that but then some might say it loses a lot of satisfaction of getting new buttons and its just mashing the same 1 button

[mighty light]

I need three hotbars for GNB, but also I use the third one for mouse buttons anyway

[wet crown]

That's a silly argument because the freed up slots offer new skills

[mighty light]

Honestly like
The condensed combo keys for combos with no branches should just be a thing
Weird that it isn't

[pine epoch]

Take with a grain of salt, I remember yoshida having a statement that he wishes all jobs in 14 to remain around the same number of buttons they have. this was like around stormblood leading up to Shadowbringers

[maiden lodge]

PLD has 26 buttons not counting role actions. GN has 28... so yeah, I guess they're both bloaty.

[wet crown]

They design the number of skills with gamepads in mind

[torpid yoke]

They have a reason why they won't do this. Pve is less frantic and less unpredictable than pvp so they keep them separate

[tight marlin]

I dont disagree with the idea of pulling the PvP strat but i suppose to play devils advocate one might say that without making it multiple buttons it loses a lot of "gameplay interaction" maybe?

[pulsar current]

i mean with mods you can have it both ways

[tight marlin]

And ye pvp can be pretty crazy and it's not like positionals exist

[pine epoch]

Make a option in like the character settings for Condensed or Full hotbars

[maiden lodge]

It's also a vector of skill variance. It doesn't sound like a big deal, but combo management, even if we take it for granted, is a non-insignificant skill-floor thing.

[torpid yoke]

Even though I feel it'd be better to consolidate it into 1 like pvp and give more ogcds to compensate for some jobs at least

[tight marlin]

I was gonna say if it's a character option that could be a solution
until someone says I just want everything in 2 hot bars and nothing else

[pulsar current]

MCH fits in 2 hotbars and I love it

[mighty light]

That's probably true, but, like
Speaking for myself at least, the number of buttons BLM has is pretty much where I'd like all jobs to be and stay. Having to reach past 6 on the top row of numbers is
Not ideal, and games shouldn't require specialized mice to achieve basic functionality.

[tight marlin]

WAR doesnt even fill in 2 hot bars completely and it kinda irks me a tad bit lol

[maiden lodge]

Oh some jobs definately have room for more buttons dancer

[wet crown]

I prefer jobs with less required hotkeys.

[torpid yoke]

Dancer is fine

[crystal arrow]

WAR feels incredibly light ability wise.

[maiden lodge]

Dancer is fine, but it has room for more.

[torpid yoke]

Mch though......

[crystal arrow]

and DNC is fine, I'm not super sure what else it really needs - it's a nice, straightforward dps job.

[maiden lodge]

MCH is superbusy though

[torpid yoke]

Bring back gun and bow mage

[wet crown]

MCH can and should get an AOE battery skill in EW

[teal geyser]

I like dancer having less buttons because I double up on their skills since there is a big overlap for a number of skills where you use it for st and aoe

[tight marlin]

Some jobs I definitely do think u can just....fuse buttons together
NIN for example. Why is Dream within a dream and assassinate separate buttons when the latter can only be used after the former

[maiden lodge]

Automated Knight

[stiff charm]

2 animation locks i usre do love this when my internet provider is unstable as fuck

[wet crown]

SMN should just have all Enkindles on one button

[pulsar current]

just let me use bio and drill at the same time so i actually deal more damage than DNC in raids lol

[wet crown]

Flamethrower should generate heat

[pulsar current]

yooooooooooo

[tight marlin]

MCH 82: Bioblaster and Drill no longer share the same timer

[torpid yoke]

Flamethrower should be shafted and replaced by chainsaw

[pulsar current]

YOOOOOOOOOOOO

[wet crown]

[maiden lodge]

Meanwhile I'm scared of what they'll do to RDM which is already chef's kiss in terms of its playfeel.

Then again I said that at the end of Stormblood and they showed me that there was room for improvement.

[tight marlin]

Return to Figaro

[pulsar current]

that would be fucking awesome

[torpid yoke]

No keep them on the same cd

[wet crown]

Allow Holy to be followed up by Flare and vice versa. Then Scorch.

[mighty light]

I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with BLM

[pulsar current]

i saw the MCH gauge for SB
wtf

[maiden lodge]

No no no, Grynwaht's gatling gun.

Let Chainsaw be a single target Flamethrower.

[crystal arrow]

probably nothing

[tight marlin]

U know
The ranged dps probably have more room for buttons
Since most of the role actions are useless in actual combat

[torpid yoke]

Now this.... this is brilliant

[dim sigil]

I am scared of Samurai changes

[maiden lodge]

Oh no my cat hears another cat meowling and she's biiiiig mad

[balmy mesa]

BLM really needs a leveling rework, imo
There's not much they can do to DRG outside of adding more jumps or upgrading some

[tight marlin]

Like leg graze foot graze and peloton

[reef yacht]

what

[pulsar current]

please give DRG an AOE combo at 15 plz

[dim sigil]

My cat saw me watching a video of a different cat one side and she like ran the big bushy tail hiding under the bed

[reef yacht]

all of those have use in dungeons

[maiden lodge]

All melee

[mighty light]

BLM needs leveling fixed below level 50, yeah
It's tolerable from 50-60 but only really picks up around 58

[pulsar current]

all classes

[maiden lodge]

Well all jobs except melee do.

[torpid yoke]

Sb mch was jank but it was my jank. Would not recommend them bringing it back

[maiden lodge]

Well and healers. But they got multidotting

[mighty light]

People say the thing that lets you cast ice spells at 0 mana is mandatory, and, like
They're right, but it's not actually miserable to play over 50

[tight marlin]

Pelaton doesnt work in combat
And personally I never use the graze actions in dungeons.

[pulsar current]

healers dont get aoe until like 45

[maiden lodge]

Yeah I corrected that

[mighty light]

Peleton doesn't work in combat, but between pulls it's a big deal

[pulsar current]

i really hope they tackle the leveling system in 14 in EW

[maiden lodge]

There've been at least one time in raids the graze actions were useful.

[dim sigil]

What is there to even change with leveling

[maiden lodge]

Having an interrupt in DPS was handy in E8S.

[mighty light]

Leveling jobs other than your main is tedious

[pulsar current]

ley use use the full kit but de-leveled or something

[dim sigil]

Is it I didn't think so

[tight marlin]

I'm referring to foot and leg graze
Not the interrupt

[maiden lodge]

Not much they can do though, whatever is optimal, most people will do, and that will become tedious through repetition.

[torpid yoke]

Not really

[mighty light]

I'm saying that as somebody who started out playing MMOs in Runescape and still regularly goes back to it
Leveling in FFXIV takes too long and is extremely repetitive

[maiden lodge]

Having the slow was also useful on aqueous adds.

[pulsar current]

leveling 1-50 is pretty good

[balmy mesa]

I'm not sure if this would work especially if you have first-timers, since it wouldn't be "balanced"

[dim sigil]

Honestly I wish new jobs started at level one

[reef yacht]

there are occasions where the stun can be used to stop mechanics, and apart from that I generally use it to help the tank with taking less damage

[mighty light]

Fight me IRL

[pulsar current]

first timers will just have thier base kit at that level, so its not confusing for them

[dim sigil]

Sure where do you live

[maiden lodge]

Tact/Samba/Troub should be a role action though

[pulsar current]

not the best solution, but it would help

[mighty light]

Winnipeg, Canada, but you're going to have to pay for your own plane ticket

[dim sigil]

Canada is not too far away but not close

[torpid yoke]

Ehhh. It really doesn't take that long depending on your role. Plus there being other outlets to level with

[maiden lodge]

Never mind, your weather beats you up far worse than anyone in this channel can.

[mighty light]

It's true but you shouldn't say it

[maiden lodge]

I'm canuck I can say it.

[mighty light]

We had like
A foot's worth of snow on the ground a couple of weeks ago, after two months of more or less warm weather

[torpid yoke]

You're my hat :D

[maiden lodge]

Manitoba is the place canadians go 'fuck that weather'

[tight marlin]

So
What classes do u bet will have a big overhaul change and what others do u think is just gonna be "we add 1 new button, maybe 2-3 QoLs and call it a day"

[dim sigil]

Monk

[tight marlin]

Cuz DRG is probably in the latter half

[reef yacht]

I'll be disappointed if they don't rework SMN, and pets in general

[dim sigil]

Stardiver times 8

[tight marlin]

We know AST is RIP to shields

[mighty light]

BLM shouldn't receive any big changes; it's in a really good place right now

[tight marlin]

DRG 90: u can do star diver twice and get into life of dragon with 1 mirage dive and Wheeling thrust and fang and claw get more potency boost. The end

[maiden lodge]

AST is getting reworked, BLM will get more QoL like always

[pulsar current]

that sounds sick

[torpid yoke]

Blm will always be fine since Yoshida plays it

[tight marlin]

Yoshi: Bruh BLM doesnt need anything see I'm doing every ultimate just fine

[maiden lodge]

RDM probably won't change much, DNC will get some more ogcds to play with

[tight marlin]

Imagine this for DNC
A 3 for their 1-2 combos

[maiden lodge]

MNK will get some ogcd filler

[pulsar current]

too much sorry 🙂

[tight marlin]

MNK 90: six sided star will no longer make your GCD timer 5 seconds

[maiden lodge]

MCH laughs silently

[tight marlin]

Oh MNK 90 gets a new greased lightning

[pulsar current]

MNK's GCD is now .5

[tight marlin]

And riddle of wind returns to boost skill speed even more and unlocks a new mashable button

[maiden lodge]

Mnk goes so fast only the Flash can play it well

[tight marlin]

This reminds me of the MNK 70 quest where the pugilist master was like
BEHOLD THE POWER OF HAMON HOLYFIST
And fired off like 10 auto attacks doing big damage for like 3 seconds

[tight marlin]

How would u rework sam. Seems to be solid

[reef yacht]

smn

[tight marlin]

Oh. My bad
Uh..
Trances?

Ditch the DoTs aspect and say fuck u to the DoTs aspect in Arcanist maybe lol

[maiden lodge]

What would you replace the core gameplay loop with?

[tight marlin]

furiously smashing Egi Assault

[maiden lodge]

Cause I don't think anyone wants SMN's core dps rotation to be 'Cast Ruin'

If I were to rework SMN

[reef yacht]

I just don't want pets to be jank as shit and unfun to use

[tight marlin]

Maybe rework aetherflow to be more than just Fester/Painflare lol

[maiden lodge]

I'd actually make the egis core

[tight marlin]

Spend aetherflow to recharge enkindle

[torpid yoke]

Get rid of aetherflow is what I say

[maiden lodge]

I wouldn't get rid of dots, I'd make a trait that replaces Ruin, Bio, and Miasma with actions based on the pet

[torpid yoke]

Flow on smn is now just there to be there. Just have fester be ogcds not tied to anything (cept timers of course)

[maiden lodge]

Remove Bane and Outburst because Ruin, Bio, and Miasma are AoE spells under Garuda

[tight marlin]

I mean fester is like what? 6 second cooldown cuz aetherflow?

[torpid yoke]

I say keep bane and give it also to sch

[tight marlin]

GIVE BANE TO FUCKING BARD

[maiden lodge]

Well if you're changing the cast spells to match the egi you won't need bane on SMN

[wet crown]

I'd rather Bio and Miasma become AOE baseline

[tight marlin]

WHY IS THE MOST DOT CENTRIC JOB MISSING BANE

[mighty light]

Still kind of wish we had an actual DoT mage seperate from SMN

[maiden lodge]

Because mage's is already strong enough.

[torpid yoke]

They benefit the most from it and need to be nerfed

[clever flume]

bio. miasma and ruin are no longer shared with sch by the by

so if you change those for smn it wont affect the sch versions

[mighty light]

I like the idea of stacking DoTs and being able to cast different spells on targets depending on what you have up on them; that's part of how I'd implement Necromancer if I magically got to construct a job for SE

[tight marlin]

Ifrit trance titan trance garuda trance
Ruin becomes fire storm rock blast and wind slash

[maiden lodge]

I wouldn't make everything trances though. Summoners should... summon.

DWT should be the exception. Not the rule.

[tight marlin]

Dreadwyrm trance and firebirb trance:

[maiden lodge]

FBT is a summon though, more than a trance.

[tight marlin]

It starts off without a summon

[maiden lodge]

Meh no one counts that though

[mighty light]

Maybe modify DWT with its own summon

Give it Middy or something
Explain it as using residue of Midgardsomr's aether from your connection to him idk

[torpid yoke]

I think they should use trances more for their dots

[torpid yoke]

No more dragons for smn

[mighty light]

Not wedded to summoning Middy tbc; my thesis is just "give it a demi"

[torpid yoke]

Plus middy is dragoons thing. Don't take from dragoon

[strange wing]

Alexander-egi pls. I tire of angry bord and fire bird

[mighty light]

Isn't their thing Nidhogg

[strange wing]

Also Middy isn't a primal

[torpid yoke]

Their thing is middy and niddy. They just need hresvelgr at this point

[tight marlin]

But that's just keeping the same gameplay. Not exactly a rework. Plus now u have to go through 2 trances to reach an even stronger trance

[mighty light]

I'm aware; it wouldn't be that much of a leap to argue that we were using the aether from our strong bond w/ him to summon a facsimile of him, though
Again, though, like
Reason for looking at him specifically is to keep something connected to the "Dreadwyrm" part; if there's something that works better, then.

[strange wing]

Id rather just make it the trance class than every warlock build at the same time.

[stiff charm]

blood of the dragon -> life of the dragon -> love of the dragon ice themed shiva-ish hraesvelgr phase

[torpid yoke]

Soul of the dragon

[stiff charm]

that works too\

[mighty light]

Oh yeah they could totally do Shiva for Dreadwyrm

[tight marlin]

But if u do a 3rd phase for DRG

What new stuff do u get
4 nastronds? 2 stardivers?

More jumps?

[stiff charm]

no new skills, just recolors/reanimations of existing ones with a new finisher or something

[torpid yoke]

I wouldn't make it another form I would just make it something you get from going through LoTD or something

[stiff charm]

wheeling thrust/fang and claw become the gcds estinien had in solo instance back in 5.2? 5.1?

[tight marlin]

That's so lame tho

[tight marlin]

Ala morn and drachenlance

[stiff charm]

true, i just like the theme, someone else can come up with abilities

[torpid yoke]

Like changes you abilities once you exit life

[strange wing]

Ooo, Shiva would be interesting. Makes more sense than Phoenix

[maiden lodge]

They also might be skittish about doing ANOTHER SMN rework

[torpid yoke]

Though I guess you could just do that

[maiden lodge]

Especially because no matter what, someone will be vocal and unhappy.

[stiff charm]

i meant for dragoon not summoner lol but shiva summoner would be sick

[torpid yoke]

Shiva makes less sense than phoenix. Shiva isn't even connected to bahamut

[mighty light]

I've been expecting a SMN rework for 6.0 for a while now tbh
I've felt like the post-5.0 stuff has mostly been stopgaps leading up to that

[maiden lodge]

I think the place for a Shiva reference in a job would be Dark Knight.

A cooldown or ability called Iceheart, as a compliment to The Blackest Night

[stiff charm]

rename delirium to iceheart and give us shiva attacks

[maiden lodge]

Naw don't go full 'Hi I'm Shiva'

But just.. something that shows the WoL drawing from their past friends and using it to protect future ones.

[strange wing]

More Shiva representation in general. Ysale is like the least remembered girl in the MSQ

[tight marlin]

DRG will borrow Haurchefant
We get Spear of the Fury :uwucarby:

[maiden lodge]

Estinien remembers.

[torpid yoke]

Cough cough moenbryda

[mighty light]

Neither of them are the least remembered girl in the MSQ

[somber storm]

More representation for thigh mom

[stiff charm]

i make up for the people that dont remember ysayle through sheer power of worship

[tight marlin]

WAR 90: Thigh Rage

[stiff charm]

i want to see yugiri again

[strange wing]

Oh wait. Salad girl.

[maiden lodge]

thigh mom is die mom

[strange wing]

That's the least remembered MSQ girl.

[stiff charm]

..who is salad girl again

[maiden lodge]

can't remember

[stiff charm]

uh oh

[strange wing]

Exactly

[maiden lodge]

Also isn't Brayflox least remembered MSQ Girl?

[strange wing]

She has an entire dungeon

[torpid yoke]

Brayflox was a waman?

[maiden lodge]

See?

Yeah Rymi. Brayflox is girlblin

[heady shadow]

now tbf i didnt know either till a few months after doing that dungeon

[torpid yoke]

TIL

[heady shadow]

Im bad T^T

[late aurora]

We never see goblin faces so that part makes sense

[clever flume]

the last part of the name is usually the indicator

[maiden lodge]

Girlblin names end in -ox. Guyblin names end in -ix/-inx

[clever flume]

its same with sylphs as well

ia is usually female, io is usually male for them

[strange wing]

The goblins tend to be pretty thick.

[maiden lodge]

It's rude to ask if a sylph has a stamen or a pestil though

[torpid yoke]

Wait sylphs have genders?

[late aurora]

Yes

[torpid yoke]

TIL X2

[maiden lodge]

'Hnnnngggg Mide i'm trying to sneak into Alexander but Allthoughts's brains are dummy think and keep alerting the guards'

[clever flume]

yessum

[severe finch]

slowthinx nothoughts

[late aurora]

I only know because that one that “pray returned to the waking sands” was a girl

[clever flume]

Noraxia is a grill, and Frixio is a male!

[maiden lodge]

Livia deserves no redemption for she kicked the cabbage.

[indigo shale]

cant get much redemption when dead anyway, she didnt get thrown in the redemption box like some others

[torpid yoke]

Sure was a butt anyways

[maiden lodge]

Look she went overly attached girlfriend on us

[torpid yoke]

Tsun lives don't mat-

[clever flume]

As one whose flower bloomed irregularly throughout the seasons, Noraxia was adept at magicks, and could even conjure a glamour to appear as a person with ease. Noraxia left her home in Little Solace to aid the Scions—such was her strong sense of duty—but tragically perished at the young age of eighteen summers in the imperial attack on the Waking Sands.

[maiden lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/overly-attached-girlfriend-scary-scared-frightening-i-love-you-gif-4860466

[indigo shale]

and could even conjure a glamour to appear as a person with ease

imagine you think youre talking to a {insert FFXIV race here} and then it suddenly unglamours into a sylph, would be quite the fright

[dusk drift]

😦

poor cabbage

[crystal arrow]

rip cabbage

[reef yacht]

I miss the MSQ questline where they actually did that

[maiden lodge]

Gunbreaker quests

[clever flume]

when i was going thru msq on an alt, i saw this for the first time

[turbid aspen]

not real viera ears dw haha

[gaunt star]

[clever flume]

when i playthru after coming back in 2.3 or whatever i regularly checked in the backroom but somehow missed it

[turbid aspen]

based face 3 au ra

[indigo shale]

i might replay arr, my first playthrough didnt have my full attention, as i was eager to get to HW as was being told it becomes good from that point

[late aurora]

I took my time with ARR but also it’s been like a half a year since I beat it so I don’t remember much

[brisk quail]

No boning the cabbage.

[clever flume]

part of the reason why i like going back thru on alts, though this was also before ng+ iirc

gonna buckle down and redo everything though with it once we get 5.55 so i can refresh myself and see if i've missed anything

[indigo shale]

cant believe i avoided this game for so long because it was an MMO, would have missed out on one the greatest games of all time (imo)

[dim sigil]

I too used to be that it's an mmo so it doesn't count crowd

[next quarry]

I didnt know it was an MMO

when I started

[tropic frigate]

damn

[brazen stag]

"Why can't I carry all my adopted children with me into the redemption box?"
-Gaius Baelsar

[dim sigil]

If zenos picked the blu cane he'd be canonically unstoppable

[indigo shale]

if we just dont do the werlyt questline they wont die in the first place, take that time bubble

speaking of yoko taro, i would like to imagine if he had his way then at the end of the nier questline he would just blow up the first, but it wouldnt be anything nier related, yoko taro would just will himself into the game and blow it up

[brazen stag]

[late aurora]

Would he? Where would he learn his spells, since we’ve killed most things worth killing

[rain onyx]

I like to imagine him grabbing a cane and then laughing for a solid 1-2 minutes and then throwing it behind his shoulder

[brazen stag]

I just think it's kinda funny how Drakengard's plot finally got filled in by a different game almost two decades later and Nier's plot had to be filled in by a drama CD and a musical stage play.

[indigo shale]

theirs a musical stage play? I have not heard of that

[dim sigil]

The stage plays apparently the canonical ending

[indigo shale]

that sounds strange

[torpid yoke]

Nier has a lot of different mediums for its story

[heady shadow]

honestly people can give KH all the shit they want

drakngard/nier is worse lol

[wind bough]

KH makes no sense and is designed to be confusing

[heady shadow]

but its supposed to get into the questiions like humanity, whats humanity what makes blah blah blah

[indigo shale]

where would 15 fall in with those games with lore being in many mediums

[wind bough]

Nier story is completely understandable and complete without all the extra deep dive Easter egg stuff

It’s way better than KH in that regard

[rain onyx]

“Say fellas, did someone mention the Door to Darkness?” - Mickey Mouse

[late aurora]

Written by the seat of their pants, and the pants have stitched up holes

[crystal arrow]

oh nooo existentialism, the horror

[indigo shale]

i wonder if kingdom hearts will come to pc at some point

[teal geyser]

It's on Epic

[late aurora]

I swear KH3 was on EGS

[dim sigil]

Its been on pc

[heady shadow]

Oh no Nihilism run!!

[indigo shale]

ok correction, i wonder when KH will come to pc on a relevant store

[heady shadow]

probably never sorry

oh righyt its also full priced

[indigo shale]

id rather buy it on windows store than egs

[dim sigil]

Emulator

[indigo shale]

ehhh, id rather just wait, im gonna assume its not going to be perma exclusive, only timed maybe

watch SE pull this shit with 16, console 1 year exclusive, then egs 6-12 month exclusive before arriving on steam because they just hate us

[heady shadow]

the only thing im worried about with 16 is them pulling the stupid season pass bullshit

which would mean dlc, extra story shit

aka it wont be 'finished'

[indigo shale]

i assume it wont be like the 15 situation, the base game may actually be finished on release and dlc could just be idk stuff

[dim sigil]

It depends if the DLC contains anything to do with lore and story I cannot consider it complete

[heady shadow]

ye, the so called '4chan' leak makes it sound like another xv

[dim sigil]

I wouldnt take such a thing as truth

[indigo shale]

i wouldnt trust anything thats not officially said

leaks dont mean anything imo, as people can easily fabricate stuff

[heady shadow]

blufevor goes brrrr

but no I get it.
I trust the team behind it so

[indigo shale]

well, we'll see 14 could just be a fluke who knows, as with other game series one can be good and then they fuck up the next

[heady shadow]

even though im completely quitting ffxiv when im done with 6.0 I dont want 16 to fuck up T^T

[torpid yoke]

Why

[indigo shale]

how come youre gonna completely quit it when 6.0 is over,

[slate badger]

just a new stage in life?

[indigo shale]

youll miss out on the 24 man and 8 man raids

[dim sigil]

I guess because it is a subscription-based game things like quitting is this thing you can do

But my mind immediately jumps to like saying you're quitting Final Fantasy 1 or something like what

[heady shadow]

its a mix of becoming disinterested due to work related stress accumulated over two years of taking care of a dementia grandmother(which is over now thankfully). then at the end of march when i got to go into icu because asthma attack/pneumonia(that i had for three years heh)/rhinovirus hit at once(while covid just sat there doing nothing >.>)
Then its just a matter if i'll be able to get a job once i recover enough. But under medicaid i can only make 1400 a month.

[gusty quest]

Hope you get better man

[heady shadow]

Oh eyah Im fine now. my voice is about the only thing bad since i ripped tubes out xD

[spiral wagon]

wait...

IS THAT KEN-E-SENNA IN A RABBIT COSTUME?>!

[stiff charm]

wrong kind of bunny costume

[spiral wagon]

[stiff charm]

wait nevermind isnt kan e senna like 17
forget what i said

[serene crest]

But yeah that's her. She's carrying her staff on her back.

[clever flume]

she's in her 20s

[stiff charm]

ok phew

[forest magnet]

😒

[spiral wagon]

shes 28

[wary perch]

I doubt Kan -E is that young

[clever flume]

she's 28 like pizza said

[heady shadow]

isnt her sister young?

[clever flume]

the youngest is the brother

[heady shadow]

her sister is 21 and brother would be....

18

[clever flume]

Ye

[heady shadow]

all are legal so its a-ok

[clever flume]

[heady shadow]

my character is more of a ||neverereallythoughtaboutitotherthenmaybeshelikestentaclesorwhatevershemightthinkbutidontknow||

[strange wing]

Finally got my diamond clear.

I am worried. I won the roll on a Diamond Dancer weapon with a 69. I think I have to main that now.

[dim sigil]

God i have 25 more runs til im done with it

[gilded kindle]

nice

[misty yoke]

Nice

[wet crown]

Isn't it time to nuke this channel for a month?

[gaunt star]

Indeed it is

[carmine basin]

My parting image https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/742643125981413447/832172821588738069/41u9fh.jpg

[wet crown]

https://tenor.com/view/zenos-yae-galvus-final-fantasy14-ff14-zenos-zenos-kiss-gif-20324187

[wary perch]

https://tenor.com/view/eden-eternal-breath-ffxiv-final-gif-14587633

[wet crown]

So urgh...this week's letter from Konogg.

Is it just me or does this throw a big, fuckly wrench into stuff?

||If I understand correctly, then the original 2B and 9S intercepted the seed before it even landed on Norvrandt.||

[somber storm]

yes

[cinder spindle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myJesB_YOg4

[wary perch]

They found out about the invasion plan to another world when they came in contact with the sphere

[wet crown]

We thought Ending D might lead into this raid series. But I'm starting to think it's Ending E.

[main jay]

it is clearly the unseen Ending Ω and yoko taro is playing us for fools again

[wary perch]

Isn't E just a restart?

Also is the sphere even in automata?

[wet crown]

E isn't as much of a restart as a new beginning.

[wary perch]

I go through all cutscene in automata don't think I ever saw the sphere

[wet crown]

We don't see it. Doesn't mean it's not part of the world anymore

[wary perch]

True

[main jay]

nier automata ending spoilers ||if the raid leads on from ending E, then the seed is likely what was launched by the Tower, and i guess they came into contact with it in whatever abstract time the credits bullet hell sequence represents||

[crystal arrow]

||if what konogg's note said is true, could be the copies of 9S and 2B in the seed trying to figure themselves out?||

[main jay]

that also means that ||we're either closing the loop on what the Watchers actually are (possibly the final form of machine life forms), or the seed was created by Watcher interference somehow.||

[rough kestrel]

I mean we already knew from Drakengard the Seeds are their tools/playthings

[crystal arrow]

||or the seed could've just been a machine recreation of one of the seeds of destruction based on their knowledge banks/past data?||

[wet crown]

Well...wonder what fucky wrench we'll get next week.

[rough kestrel]

The important fact is Seeds of destruction seemingly appear when a world is on the verge of ending.

[main jay]

the seed was actually ||really bad cheese, and everyone that close to it was experiencing cheese-induced nightmare visions||

[crystal arrow]

because we know from replicant that [new ending spoilers] || that the ark existed in a form during replicant, and it was documenting literally everything about the world and even digitized hansel and gretel, and given accord in the drakengard games I bet information about the seeds could've lasted until automata||

[wet crown]

It's actually not a new ending.

[crystal arrow]

Yeah, I know

It's "new" in the respect that it wasn't in the game before

[wet crown]

Well, then I guess I don't have to explain where it comes from.

[crystal arrow]

But still, ||watching that ending after the raid and seeing the two administrators voiced by the 2B and 9S VAs who look a lot like 2B and 9S, along with the hansel + gretel fight in hackspace, was Interesting||

[wet crown]

Yeah, I gotta agree. It makes more sense to see both of them in the raid now.

[crystal arrow]

||also explains why Jack was there||

[wet crown]

||You mean Knave ||

[crystal arrow]

||||

[viscid monolith]

Wow that makes 9S even more of a fuck up

[wet crown]

YT did say he didn't finish writing the whole story because he wanted to see fan reactions after the first raid.
But I have to agree that 9S's reactions make less sense now.

Of course...keeping in mind that basing his actions on specific races is impossible in XIV...

Chance being that he may or may not fight a single Hyur for example. Just Lalafells or Hrothgars...

It's a really odd point and I'm not happy with it either. But the writers don't make huge expections to the writing, should a race require more than just a single line or block of text.

[distant sonnet]

Yyyyeah but thats written off in one of two ways quite easily.

Either Mankind isn't actually defined in their head very well, so any of the humanoid biological races count..

[wet crown]

Androids are built like humans though...

[distant sonnet]

Or mankind isn't actually defined in their head at all and they have no idea that hyur=human.

[severe brook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MYAGyZlBY0

[distant sonnet]

But they aren't humans. You're basing this off of the idea that they actually know what a human is or what one looks like. They might not.

[severe brook]

i mean in N:A they outright say that they're made in the image of humanity. they know what humans are.

[viscid monolith]

Ya but we aren't machine lifeforms so he still should have maybe attempted to talk and ecplain why he was trying to kill 2P.

[severe brook]

also other Androids that aren't YorHa exist in the setting, who also resemble humanity.

[wet crown]

Yes and I mostly agree with you on that.

[wet crown]

Yeah, I'm sure the androids know humans don't have horns, tails, cat ears or cat bodies.

[distant sonnet]

Do they?

I'm asking because we have no idea how "human" is defined in their machine brain and thats important.

[viscid monolith]

Well there are like 5 people who have horns irl but that's a disease

[rough kestrel]

I imagine YoRHa androids had some intuitive understanding built into them as to what humanity looked like

[severe brook]

someone will now make a joke about Au Ra in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1

[rough kestrel]

As they are based on humans.

they seem to have all kinds of info and data in Automata based on old stories etc.

[wet crown]

the apartement complexes come to mind

[viscid monolith]

Wait so you're saying Yoko Taro was writing this as he went along