retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[crystal arrow]

part of me expects he'll be an ironworks cyborg or smth, who knows

[iron scaffold]

we need a RNG DPS on the team

[gusty quest]

I wonder what role Gaius is gonna play in 6.0. Considering that it's been said he's not gonna have a large role in it and he's staying in Werlyt for the foreseeable future, it makes me wonder what he's gonna contribute.

[crystal arrow]

they'll probably just give him a passing mention maybe something like "gaius has opened werlyt for refugees fleeing the decimation of garlemald"

[gusty quest]

I guess only time will tell.

I don't think his role will be that small though

We'll probably see him once or twice

[crystal arrow]

eh, I think it will - his role in the story is sorta on pause since he's running werlyt now

and I think they'll shy away from discussing him too much to avoid making the weapons series feel "mandatory"

maybe different dialogue if you do it, though

[iron scaffold]

did the say anything about 6.0 Trial series?

[gusty quest]

No they haven't

[crystal arrow]

Not yet no, I think people are betting on the archfiends

[deft burrow]

It'll be Limsa extreme

[tight marlin]

the trials are Merlwyb, Kan-E, and Raubahn

[gaunt star]

Grand Melee EX

[crystal arrow]

Mistbeard EX

[tight marlin]

they flex level 90 MCH, level 90 WHM, and level 90 PLD

[iron scaffold]

either that or Magus sisters Series

[crystal arrow]

Magus sisters showed up in dungeon concept art so

[gaunt star]

They could just be dungeons bosses if they do appear

[iron scaffold]

those could be Statues

[severe brook]

the utter hilarity of Arenvald getting a cyborg arm before Raubahn

[crystal arrow]

they're fused with the tower, so it's probably a dungeon boss - could be a thavnair tower

[iron scaffold]

agreed

[obsidian pagoda]

Magus sisters always get presented at once though so one of the Trial could be them, and the other one is probably Anima. Add Penance/Vegnagun for the third and you have a FFX series

[severe brook]

yes i'm aware Raubahn's been handling himself perfectly well without a prosthetic

[unborn lantern]

Hmmm.. this nier character reminds me of the Red Girl

[crystal arrow]

all of them seemed to be wearing matanga masks so they're prolly associated w/ them

[severe brook]

after we saw Lunar Ifrit form, (or rather, we didn't see it form directly, we only saw it jump down) it may be that Lunar Primals are born from within the Tower walls and then emerge
so the Magus Sisters could well be the Matanga Primal

[tight marlin]

red girl just has the eyes of nihilism so

[crystal arrow]

maybe since it's a lunar they could be fused together

[unborn lantern]

i want that hair now

[gaunt star]

and a smile not even a mother would love

[unborn lantern]

she's probably N3

[gaunt star]

They need to give us Ysael's hair pls

[rough kestrel]

That is the look of a person self aware that they are trapped in the Yokoverse

[maiden lodge]

Fuck it they just brought in a character whose current character arc is contingent on a job quest, people VASTLY overestimate how much shits they give about this sort of thing.

[drowsy belfry]

What were the datamined minions again? Not the Fanfest ones or y'know Runar and Lyna

The twins or something?

[gaunt star]

Gib me wind-up shb trial minions

[open verge]

Hey losers stop talking about nier in here!!!

[crystal arrow]

who, fordola? if so then her characterization is definitely not tied exclusively to the smn quests lol

even then I don't think they're gonna spoil the weapons questline in msq by saying "governor gaius" or some shit

[maiden lodge]

That's never stopped them in the past.

[gaunt star]

Just make the weapons questline required

[maiden lodge]

I'm firmly against making declarations that they'd never do things involving side content that they most certainly have done repeatedly.

[crystal arrow]

They ain't gonna do it. They haven't spoiled any other questlines yet.

[maiden lodge]

BCOB

[crystal arrow]

how lmao

[maiden lodge]

If you haven't done it, Alisae basically gives the rundown on the meracydian dragons and how they... you know... exist... as a thing in Dalamud.

So you know... maybe they don't give the number of shits you think they do.

[crystal arrow]

that's not at all a spoiler equivalent to "governor gaius of werlyt"

[bold condor]

It kind of is.

[maiden lodge]

No, it's a bigger plot twist.

[crystal arrow]

Not really, no.

[bold condor]

She only finds out about the dragons in Dalamud in Final Coil of Bahamut, after you've killed Nael and found out about Louisoix.

[maiden lodge]

'Gaius is helping liberate Werlyt' isn't a spoiler, it's a teaser.

[crystal arrow]

Also not to mention that weapons is pretty much current content, and bcob is something that you can't even pug anymore.

[gusty quest]

I mean I wouldn't mind them making the weapons series mandatory. Certainly better than the warring triad and the four lords

[bold condor]

tbh Werlyt is overall a good enough story to make it mandatory for starting 6.0.

[maiden lodge]

Also, BCOB is the same story line that, the biggest spoiler for... was posted at the same time on their official youtube channel.

They really don't give the shits you think they do.

[crystal arrow]

Nah, it's a spoiler for sure, because you don't even get to werlyt until after sapphire.

[bold condor]

The questline is called the Sorrow of Werlyt.

And you learn about Werlyt as soon as Ruby is downed.

[maiden lodge]

I mean I guess, if you think going to Werlyt with Gaius is a spoiler for something called 'Sorrow of Werlyt' that is about some guy named Gaius.

[gusty quest]

If it was made mandatory then SE could use Werlyt as a future location to have stuff in

[bold condor]

Also true, yes.

[heady shadow]

just put him into the Pandemonium raid series with Thancred since both were burned by Lahabrea

[maiden lodge]

i dunno, I think you're stretching the term 'spoiler' to include 'stuff they forshadowed a million miles away even before the content was released'

[crystal arrow]

Frankly I think they may make it mandatory, since it has some pretty crucial context.

[bold condor]

You know to be TOTALLY honest, it probably won't be necessary to mention his position in Werlyt.

[maiden lodge]

'He's working on the front line and hunting ascians'

[bold condor]

Even if he returns to the MSQ, you can just have that be an optional line of dialogue for if you completed it, yeah.

[heady shadow]

like they did wiht Coils and 3.2?

[bold condor]

Mhm. 3.4, though.

[crystal arrow]

i mean, maybe? I could see that being an alternative line depending on whether you've done weapons or not.

[heady shadow]

right

[maiden lodge]

Regardless it doesn't matter.

[heady shadow]

I gotta replay HW at some point so i can get that text flavor

[maiden lodge]

People who are so spoiler adverse that they see 'Gaius is involved with some place named Werlyt' as a spoiler.... honestly... you can't tiptoe around those people without comprimising the story for everyone else.

And the devs don't.

[gusty quest]

Whatever happens with Gaius in the future, if they do make Sorrows mandatory then it opens new doors for future content. If not then nothing changes.

[maiden lodge]

They don't have to make anything mandatory either.

[brisk quail]

This

It'll be like alisae and bahamut coils

If you did it. Good job. Gain extra dialouge. No? She just hasn't seen you for a while

[maiden lodge]

They've only done it twice--and that was when (and not one moment before) we literally had to have access to an area in order to do the story.

The first time was Manderville Golden Saucer unlocked, the second was CT when, and not before, we needed to reunite G'raha with his young body.

[pine epoch]

||Wind up Palom|| was datamined. and most likely will be the pre order bonus minion.

[brisk quail]

The only reason Crystal tower was required cuz it set the WHOLE REASON why SHB happened

[maiden lodge]

Not even that.

[brisk quail]

If X didn't happen. Graha wouldn't even have like...

[maiden lodge]

It wasn't required to set ShB in motion. It only because required because we had to get Young G'raha out of it.

[drowsy belfry]

Thaaanks!

[maiden lodge]

Literally only that.

[severe brook]

yeah, considering you don't have to have done Alexander or Omega for ShB

though i wouldn't be too surprised if Werlyt or Eden became mandatory eventually

[gusty quest]

Same

[severe brook]

just probably not in the near future

[brisk quail]

Like i said. If you did the quest line gaius will go. sorry wol for showing up late. That little city is a lot to manage

If not you'll get. ah wol. Im sure you havent seen me in a while

[maiden lodge]

Eden becoming mandatory would require us having to go into Eden to do something. Gaia showing up in MSQ as Ryne's friend would not

'Who's this girl?' 'Fucking do content to find out we got a story to tell let's go'

[severe brook]

i feel that's a bit opposite from the CT and G'raha comparison, though
in terms of the Setting Feature vs. Character angle

[viscid monolith]

In the 3rd boss of Shit Bunker is the woman on the screen actually saying anything?

[maiden lodge]

Well, again, 'character exists' is not enough.

[severe brook]

i think she's reciting gibberish

[crystal arrow]

sorry but that's not equivalent to graha, lol - gaia is... a rather significant character that does need explaining

[severe brook]

...is g'raha not?

[crystal arrow]

not... really? I got his significance without doing CT before shb

[maiden lodge]

Does she though? If she shows up in MSQ, she's there. WHo is she? Do content to find out. But nothing about her role would inherently require Eden to be done.

[viscid monolith]

Of course she is. Thanks

[maiden lodge]

Like you're mistaking 'It would be nice to know her story' with 'THIS IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL'

It's not. She's Ryne's girlfriend and she has wierd powers.

However, and hear me out--it's better to NOT make it mandatory.

[severe brook]

if a theoretical post-timeskip Gaia were to just up and use Ascian abilities, that might need a bit of an explanation

[maiden lodge]

'Yeah, she has weird powers.'

[next quarry]

I dont want gaia to come back just because she was an ascian

[severe brook]

i mean we were an Ancient too. So what?

[crystal arrow]

I mean, she's literally the reincarnated version of an ascian, I think we need the context of eden to explain why she's there and not trying to kill us outright.

[maiden lodge]

you vastly overestimate how much exposition you need for this shit. But here's the real tea--if you don't make it mandatory, suddenly...

....when something wierd happens people ask 'Who's this person? What's her deal?' 'Oh, do Eden.'

[severe brook]

i'm still partly hoping we get Gunbreaker Ryne and Sorceress Gaia after a timeskip on the First. Complete the FF8 reference.

[maiden lodge]

Then, people can go do it by their choice, and it becomes a thing they want to do, not a thing they're forced to do.

[severe brook]

have the Sorceress and her Knight.

[maiden lodge]

No, you really don't. She can do wierd darkness shit. HOw does that require massive explanation other than 'She can do wierd darkness shit'

[sudden herald]

Yeeee boi

[next quarry]

for gaia to even be there

[maiden lodge]

For gaia to be there, she clearly has a backstory.

[next quarry]

we need to at least do E8 tbh

[sudden herald]

Let my daughters be gay

[viscid monolith]

Speaking of Bunker I wish the last boss just stayed a ball

[next quarry]

all of eden isnt mandatory

[maiden lodge]

No, you don't. You only do if you require everything to be done in chronological order in an MMO.

Which is rediculous to ask or insist on.

[viscid monolith]

They'll never be gay cause of China I guess

[sudden herald]

Fuckin China

[maiden lodge]

You're asking that they never bring up side content unless they make it mandatory, rather than introduce elements that make people curious and intrigued and make them ask about the stuff and then go do it.

[severe brook]

there'd probably be outcry in america and japan too, unfortunately, if they made it official
maybe not to the level as in china, but probably still some

[clever flume]

why are we blaming something that likely has no bearing it

[obsidian pagoda]

You can always localise it differently for China if they want, like WoW and Dota

[late aurora]

Unless she pops up in 6.0, and her “relationship” with Ascians ends up being super relevant to the plot. I don’t see it being mandatory.

[maiden lodge]

What is better? Making Alexander mandatory to do Twinning... or having that mystery at the end that people ask about, and then want to go find answers?

[crystal arrow]

ah yes, not like her true nature as a reincarnated ascian isn't at all relevant to us, a person who has hunted down and killed a number of ascians

[maiden lodge]

Telling people, for example, You gotta do Alex before you do Twinning for narrative reasons literally tells them 'There's Alex shit in Twinning' and ruins the discovery they'd have made for themselves.

Making shit mandatory is spoiling shit.

[gusty quest]

I feel like this is geting out of hand. All because someone asked what Gaius would be doing in EW.

[somber storm]

Just tell people to do everything

[viscid monolith]

Fucking hate this raid

[somber storm]

Tfw you did HW beast tribes and it makes you meet up with Tiamat even after you freed her

[crystal arrow]

not really, nah

[gaunt star]

I didn't do Crystal tower on my main so I had no idea who Exarch was. Fast forward to my alt knocking out Crystal tower just because and I met him. Was kicking myself for not starting with CT done at first halfway into SHB

I knew it was him after I saw him again and looked under his hood.

[brisk quail]

You have to do CT though

[clever flume]

didnt have to before 5.3

[brisk quail]

How do you just skip content like that

Smh. You disappoint me

[gaunt star]

Im lazy

I havent done Alexander on my main either, but I have on my alt

[crystal arrow]

also lazy

[forest magnet]

alexander is kinda mess of a story tbh

[heady shadow]

almost everything with Time shit is a mess

[forest magnet]

doesn't help that literally none of the fights are relevant to the story until Cruise Chaser

[gaunt star]

I had 0 interest because goblins

[strange wing]

It turns out Goblins have the coolest primal

[rough kestrel]

And arguably the most dangerous

[somber storm]

Cheese primal

[viscid monolith]

First off that isn't true but also what makes Cruise Chaser story relevant?

[iron scaffold]

Your trying to Solid Snake your way in Alexander how isn't that a story?

[severe brook]

i guess that it's the guardian of Alexander Prime's actual heart? thus beating it can be seen as 'real' progress

[teal geyser]

Also you'd literally be ignoring Mide, Alex going back in time to being summoned, the cat being dropped off etc etc, ALL stuff that happens before the final tier

[brisk quail]

Also uhhh.

CHEESE

[teal geyser]

Unless we are quite literally talking about the fights themselves

[viscid monolith]

I don't know what people define as story relevant bosses. We're fighting Goblins and machines built by the Goblins.

[severe brook]

though i would argue that finding out the mystery and realizing what has to be done is also progress. even though the previous damage to Alexander had been undone, there's still knowledge gained from those experiences

[viscid monolith]

Shit's stupid it's like people make up these arbitrary definitions to make a point. Just say you don't like raid, damn.

[severe brook]

Eden does feel more tightly woven together, though

[forest magnet]

the fight itself

[viscid monolith]

I guess fighting the boss of the Illuminati isn't relevant to the story.

It's A7 by the way

He's the boss

Of the Illuminati

Tells everyone what to do

[crystal arrow]

Yeah like, lol, all the bosses are p important in alex

and we don't learn of his true nature until later anyways

[next quarry]

A2 is never important

and if you say otherwise I will die

[viscid monolith]

I hold your life in my hands

[brisk quail]

Remember when WoL walked up stairs? Good times. .

[next quarry]

pepsiman is important to my mental health

[forest magnet]

in a bad way right

[heady shadow]

when you almost get killed after A11 but it ends up that it was literally just the dps check from A12 xD

also Im sure most raiders still have ptsd from Gordias

also back to arenvald for a sec

||the reason why i think he'll probably lose his legs is tied into the comment Alphinaud made about elezen being late bloomers with him getting taller and Arevnald having to crane his neck to look at him||

[obsidian pagoda]

||Ala Mhigan and losing limbs, seems to be a reoccurring theme ||

[ivory wolf]

Oof. Possibly right but that sucks

[next quarry]

mecha arenvald

[dim sigil]

Not killing him but taking his legs could still have an impact

Tbh wol should of lost many limbs so far

[teal geyser]

for 6.0 you must select a limb to lose and that'll change your stats

[dim sigil]

My pinky toe

[slate badger]

didn't realize this was LISA. are we going to start taking drugs to forget what happened from 2.0 - 6.0 as well?

[crystal arrow]

is 6.0 the true elden ring?

[next quarry]

Ill take his leg

[forest magnet]

Unfortunately most of our wild speculation about nier didn't come true. we got hte hacking minigame and the square enix building that's about it. no deleting datacenters or shit like that.

[teal geyser]

That's what story skips already are duh

[crystal arrow]

well, we still have 2 weeks of epilogue

[heady shadow]

btw

[rough kestrel]

I kind of think they're gonna drop something in 5.55

[heady shadow]

oh nvm

datamining would have found it

[rough kestrel]

Why drag this out with weeklies if that's it.

Why not just have the quests be doable and be like "Alright thats it". It's not like this is a beast tribe.

[forest magnet]

can you datamine the letters

[viscid monolith]

Yes please just datamine this shit so it can be over and I don't have log in to do these dumb quests

[rough kestrel]

^

[dim sigil]

I think main dataminers withhold major spoilers? I recall someone said that once

[viscid monolith]

What

[rough kestrel]

I do remember they found some code talking about "Redo" with the Nier stuff but I dont recall what that actually was.

[mighty light]

I mean
I'd rather they didn't, so I don't have to dodge this channel to avoid spoilers for content that isn't even playable yet
That'd be shit

[rough kestrel]

The weeklies dont make you redo the raids (So far)

[clever flume]

man imagine disliking something so much that you force yourself to do it instead of...i don't know, not bothering with it

[dim sigil]

No one hates or dislikes somthing as much as its fans

[mighty light]

To be fair that's me with PotD
The Necromancer title has its claws in me deep

[viscid monolith]

I'm already invested it

[crystal arrow]

if y'all hate it so much just don't do it

[rough kestrel]

It's kind of like an abusive relationship, or liking Bethesda games

[clever flume]

You could just wait for someone else to bother with you know

[heady shadow]

tbh, this is the stuff people bitched about there being too much of in the Ivalice raids.
xD

[viscid monolith]

I can't hate something accurately until I finish it

[forest magnet]

ivalice has no weekly quest, and trust me i hate the wine quest

[rough kestrel]

Thats because like 5 people know Ivalice Lore

[crystal arrow]

I don't understand why ppl complain about nier so much lmfao, if you hate it as much as you seem to just don't do it and let other people enjoy it

[viscid monolith]

No

[crystal arrow]

tired of logging in here and seeing people go "nier fucking sucks"

[heady shadow]

i meant in the amount of exposition it had.
Ivalice could have weekly shit too, but it doesnt it has a relic behind it for its exrta shit xD

[crystal arrow]

Honestly ivalice was more convoluted than nier for me, too much exposition

[viscid monolith]

You had an explanation and just didn't read anything

[rough kestrel]

I care about Nier, I do not care about Ivalice, even though I like Bozja

[forest magnet]

the ivalice lore is intertwined with msq so im partially invested that way

[rough kestrel]

It's like an obligatory investment now

[crystal arrow]

I shouldn't need to read 10 minutes of dialogue to understand an alliance raid

[viscid monolith]

I'm talking about the ccutscenes

The cutscenes explained everything I needed to know about the raids

[crystal arrow]

and isn't that literally the same argument y'all have used against nier? that there's required reading and that you actually have to pay attention to shit?

[viscid monolith]

The explanation is in the game for Ivalice

[rough kestrel]

The Nier situation is we're missing context.

[viscid monolith]

I like my story in the game I'm playing. Revolutionary concept I know.

[rough kestrel]

Why, How, we know the What.

[heady shadow]

which you might not get till the next Nier game xD

[crystal arrow]

I'm not a fan of a nier crossover as a replacement for original alliance raid content don't get me wrong, but y'all are hypocrites for shitting on nier for the same flaws that ivalice has

[viscid monolith]

Ya sure whatever

[crystal arrow]

literally the same is true about ivalice

it requires you to play another fucking ff game for context

[viscid monolith]

All of that is in XIV i just fucking said that

[crystal arrow]

either that or spend a good few hrs going thru wiki rabbit holes or watching lore vids on yt

[teal geyser]

Can you give me an example of Ivalice plot you had to look up FFXII for Au Ra?

[rough kestrel]

Ivalice tells you everything.

[mighty light]

Yeah, like, I've been trying not to join in too much on the NieR dogpile, but the "Ivalice was even more convoluted" argument doesn't really work on the basis of the fact that like
You do not need to understand anything about Tactics or XII to understand what's going on
Source: again, I have literally never played any Final Fantasy game but XIV and the first like
Ten minutes of X; I understood it fine.
I've played NieR Automata, which is the game that was nominally being crossed over; I have no fucking clue what's going on in most of the non-Dwarf sections, in large part because actually it ended up being about not only the entire NieR series, but also a different, even older series.

[viscid monolith]

Are yoh you even looking at your screen? I never touched an Ivalice game and all of the information is in XIV and explained. It just sounds like you have an investment in a shitty raid series and aren't a fan of people dunking on it.

[crystal arrow]

I had to look up the lucavis, and the cities, because I didn't really understand the significance of either

[heady shadow]

I mean, Ivalice is more into the Tactics side then ff12 really.
so might be better to look into tactics

[crystal arrow]

nor did I really get what the lucavis were

[teal geyser]

Cities are cities what the fuck

[rough kestrel]

The Ivalice shit isn't even shit from those games, it's XIV's version of that lore, IN XIV.

[mighty light]

They explain both the Lucavis and the cities in the raids.

[teal geyser]

^ Mikoto

[crystal arrow]

they explained it in a way that was too convoluted for me

[teal geyser]

but it's there

[mighty light]

Okay. But the info is in the game. It isn't, for NieR.

[rough kestrel]

Regardless of whether you can read or not, the point is the Info is, there, where as it isn't for Nier (Yet).

Slow reply but what the fuck ever.

[crystal arrow]

all you need to know about nier is p much in game, knowing more context just makes you go "oh shit it's that character"

[mighty light]

There is no way to understand what's going on in Tower at Paradigm's Breach if you haven't played not only Automata but several previous entries in the series.

[forest magnet]

Even if the letters somehow remedy the story (spoiler: it probably won't) it's still bad story design

[crystal arrow]

nah, not really

[rough kestrel]

That is 120% Not true.

[mighty light]

Again: I have played Automata. I had no fucking clue what was going on.

[rough kestrel]

^

[gaunt star]

The letters in the data so far are nothing special don’t get your hopes up

[heady shadow]

I mean Nier/drakngard is more about the themes it is trying to convey then actually trying to figure out what the fucks goings on heh imo anyway.

[teal geyser]

I've played all nier games and admittedly while I haven't done the new stuff yet from what I know I don't entirely get it's whole severity

[rough kestrel]

I 100%'d Automata and I watched Clemps's Video series on DG and original Nier, I understand the references I'm looking at, I just dont know why I'm looking at them and that's the problem. You can go "haha crossover" but this isn't really typical for Nier, the Info is usually scattered, but you usually get enough info to go "Okay I can connect the dots" and be done.

[somber storm]

we all know some stuff bad

[quasi swallow]

i played tactics when it first came out, forgot most of it. never played nier. while it's a lot to read, the ivalice stuff told you exactly what was going on and how it fit into the world, while the nier stuff i've just been like.. what the frick is happening

[teal geyser]

Like, how the seed ended up in The First is....what? How the fuck did it connect to the data from the rocket etc etc?

[rough kestrel]

^

The Seed wasnt even in Automata so what the fuck

[teal geyser]

Not even in Nier

[rough kestrel]

They had the nerve to say that this raid story is the sequel to Automata's story.

[viscid monolith]

Up until this patch we still didn't know what the Androids even wanted? Some people thought they wanted to have a baby because of one of the logs. In 5.4 they added the in between quest that finally introduces the Seed but oops what the fuck is this

[lime estuary]

Im a massive Nier fan and frankly the raids didnt bother me at all. My expectation was that we'd get some fun spectacles with Nier glam, and thats what we got.

[rough kestrel]

Machines having babies isn't especially new for Nier but it's still kind of a case of "But when and why"

[crystal arrow]

This was never said, btw, just that it was a crossover.

[teal geyser]

They teased about it

Sets a bit of an expectation

[viscid monolith]

Ya but other people had higher expectations of the raid actually relating the game we're playing. A very low bar met by every other Alliance story and raid series.

[crystal arrow]

I mean yes, but it's ultimately just worldbuilding for nier. Could be hinting at Drakengard 4 or an automata sequel, but who knows.

[rough kestrel]

"Naoki Yoshida: We do have a general story overview, but it’s all up to Yoko Taro and how he’s going to spice it up in the end. I do hope that he doesn’t go so far as to try to destroy our data centers or anything.

Yoko Taro: We laid out the overall story at the onset of the crossover, so we couldn’t look into players’ reactions to make small adjustments. However, we do, of course, look at reactions and comments. And from that, I got the impression that players are expecting something more “hardcore” to unfold.

So I’ve decided that, for the fans, I will go hardcore on that final chapter. I’ll make it so that the end of this story sees all player data — including the FFXIV servers themselves — be destroyed.

I’m lying, of course."

[somber storm]

nier mmo

[rough kestrel]

"YT: If I were to choose, it would probably be the latter. Rather than digging deep into the settings and ideas of Nier: Automata, I put more emphasis on making sure the content turns out to be something meaningful for the FFXIV players. Additionally, I’m also excited to see what kind of outcome “Nier” — a calamity from outside the FFXIV world — will deliver to the FFXIV players. Yes, you guessed correctly: I still haven’t written the ending."

(Apparently he still hasn't, even after a year, I guess is the take away here)

Unless Covid fucked things up that severely, there is something missing here

[crystal arrow]

Bit of covid, bit of engine limitations I'd say.

[rough kestrel]

I dont expect the weeklies to solve anything, but I am incredibly suspicious of the fact that they are weeklies

And if this isnt just an excuse to keep Nier in our head until part 2

[kindred rampart]

wouldn't any rewards be available by the time 5.55 is out?

[crystal arrow]

they are blue quests so

[rough kestrel]

That too, actually now that you say that

[teal geyser]

Yes they'll unlock the ability to NG+ the raid and that's it

[rough kestrel]

[crystal arrow]

it has to give something at the end

what if it gives 2b weapon glams

[rough kestrel]

I guess we'll see if Nier gets NG+

[kindred rampart]

it ends up dewarding you

deletes all your Nier content you collected

[teal geyser]

Delete the 2B dress

[mighty light]

It just deletes your account.

[rough kestrel]

They did joke about deleting the 2B outfit

As reward for beating the story

[kindred rampart]

Deletes something from your server that forces emergency maintenance every time someone completes the final quest

[late aurora]

Delete your save for a good 2P

[rough kestrel]

You get a solo instance where you fight Yoshida in the hacking minigame arena.

And then Yoko pops up like Red Girl to puppet you around

[heady shadow]

ends up with Konogg vanishing thrugh a portal then appearing in Replicant game

[torpid yoke]

or reincarnation

[rough kestrel]

I noticed they gave him Asahi hair.

[crystal arrow]

wasn't there a nier mobile game with a lalafel android in the art

[torpid yoke]

btw there is a new character in the replicant remake

[mighty light]

You start the Copied Factory raid. The lights all go out. These words appear in the chat box:
"It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."

[torpid yoke]

Reincarnation

[mighty light]

(Then you are eaten by a grue.)

[teal geyser]

Not that I've heard or seen from what I've seen

[torpid yoke]

wa

[teal geyser]

Oh wait that wasn't a question, tell me more

[rough kestrel]

They're doing Automata shit in Replicant Remake but thats all I know

[torpid yoke]

Little girl named louise

[teal geyser]

I wonder if they'll just expand on ||the idea that Dev and Pop aren't the only androids doing stuff to bring humanity back|| or maybe even the ||androids that fight Red Eye at some point but I don't recall how close that is timeline wise to the events of Rep/Gestalt||

[torpid yoke]

shes on that stamp/pin thing

[dim sigil]

Apparently the white dwarf went to nier world off screen she said in the letter?

[torpid yoke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbo6yu8Inpw

[next quarry]

o I forgot about red eye

[teal geyser]

Interesting Rymi

[torpid yoke]

forgot to pull the time stamp but its at 530

also uh that new characters eyes sure are...something

[teal geyser]

YOOOO ||PAPA NIER!?|| GIMME

[torpid yoke]

u didnt know?

[teal geyser]

They are...||red eyes...||
Oh no

[kindred rampart]

additional scenario where you play as CaimRedeyes

[torpid yoke]

papa nier

[obsidian pagoda]

Papa Nier let's goooo

[teal geyser]

HE LOOKS SO GOOD

[obsidian pagoda]

Did he get a facelift? lol

[next quarry]

papa nier is in the remaster???

[teal geyser]

HE DID VEL

[next quarry]

HOW???

[obsidian pagoda]

YESSSSSSSSSSS

He looked so ugly but now he's a DILF

[gaunt star]

there a leak on the relic weapons final form yet?

[next quarry]

DILF indeed

[obsidian pagoda]

POG

[teal geyser]

Dude honestly if you can't start as papa Nier I'm going to be so fucking disappointed

[obsidian pagoda]

Hopefully it's just a toggle

[teal geyser]

I pray

[late aurora]

Papa nier is totally an extra mode or something

[torpid yoke]

he was a dlc thing in the original replicant

[obsidian pagoda]

The next best is to just get one ending then you can jump straight into Papa. If I have to get Ending D before Papa unlocks I would be soooo mad

[teal geyser]

Was he really Rymi? Rep Nier wasn't DLC in Gestalt IIRC

[obsidian pagoda]

No, it was only Papa in Replicant

[teal geyser]

*brother

[obsidian pagoda]

They never bothered releasing extra DLC for the Xbox version in japan

oh I meant it was only Papa DLC in Replicant

[teal geyser]

Lame

[dusk drift]

alright, all caught up. some thoughts:

• i ugly-laughed when estinien mistook allie for alphy
• i'm glad tiamat is free, i want her to be happy 😊
• it was nice to see the kobolds helping out
• there's like a 95% chance whatever weapons zenos picked up is the same type as the new dps class
• i'm super pumped for 5.55 now

[teal geyser]

okay but what are your thoughts on the 10000000000000000000000 death flags they put on Arenvald at the start?

[kindred rampart]

HOPEFULLYNOTHINGBADWILLHAPPENVald

[dusk drift]

i was pretty sure he wasn't gonna die
i guess they could still do it, but he's not dead yet

[teal geyser]

Oh also talking about this spicy topic here, what about the dialogue choices you had with Estinien in Azys regarding Fandaniel?

That was pretty fucking spicy because a number of people hate it for no "no, fuck Fandaniel" option

[kindred rampart]

all the deaths are for the nameless Grand Company soldiers Alphinaud will fail to save

[gaunt star]

I stared at those choices for 6 minutes

[kindred rampart]

need that breaking point for Sage
Taro whispered ideas to Yoshis ears for it

[gaunt star]

I was genuinely disappointed

[next quarry]

what choices?

[teal geyser]

I had to spend a bit of time really thinking about which choice was the most "no fuck that I'm going to kill him"

[kindred rampart]

[next quarry]

oh

[obsidian pagoda]

Arenvald's gonna die and that's gonna make Alphi change his class cause his current job isn't good enough

[torpid yoke]

The WoL is getting their own personality now that they fused with ardbert

[teal geyser]

When we had three variations of "I'll try to understand Fandaniel and only kill him if I have to"

[next quarry]

oh yea I thought that was fine

[gaunt star]

KILL. CRUSH. DESTROY. SWAG

[obsidian pagoda]

Saaaaaame. There was no "I will bitchslap him at the earliest convenience" option

[severe brook]

...i kinda liked rougher Papa Nier...

[next quarry]

I wanted to know what was fan danny thinking tbh

[teal geyser]

Dw me too, a lot

[next quarry]

I want papa nier to be rough with me, but thats another topic

[torpid yoke]

papa nier needs to stop wearing underwear on his face

[gaunt star]

Hes a Kefka clone.

[obsidian pagoda]

Papa Nier masterrace

[teal geyser]

Brother Nier first

[severe brook]

like i liked how the characters in Nier tended to have very anime-style gear, but had less stylized features

[gaunt star]

Aka just a nihlist

[severe brook]

it was a neat distinction

[teal geyser]

I still prefer the more expressive Kainé design too btw, her new design while closer to concept art feels like it really takes away from her expressions

[obsidian pagoda]

Fandaniel's dance/walk emote when

[teal geyser]

Never 😢

[gaunt star]

[torpid yoke]

brother nier doesnt wear face underwear

[obsidian pagoda]

As long as when I turn the game on I hear "Weiss you dumbass!" I'm cool lmao

[teal geyser]

You're right he wears it on top of his head instead

[severe brook]

does a nihilistic little run that pisses you off

can't wait for Fandaniel's twirling to end up as a spell animation for his signature move like how Y'Shtola does Yuna's dance to cast Holy

[gaunt star]

[teal geyser]

If we had to get one Fanny emote it'd be the weird pose https://youtu.be/k4skaoUEjXU?t=12678

[teal geyser]

[kindred rampart]

I imagine the mocap actor had tons of fun
he stands out considering how many unique animations he seems to have compared to everyone else lol

[carmine basin]

I thought the third option is that? Certainly. After I've wiped the smile off his face.

[kindred rampart]

Everyone else: default poses
Fanny Danny: SHALL I DANCE A BALLET FOR YOU?!

[teal geyser]

That's still reconciliation @carmine basin

[carmine basin]

Sounds like "yeah I'll try to understand him after I beat him up"

[gaunt star]

That still implies making an attempt

[teal geyser]

Fucking
Kill
Him

[obsidian pagoda]

I just wanna trot and twirl around people to piss them off in Limsa, is that to much to ask?

[ivory wolf]

Let me use the word “murder” as a dialogue option YoshiP

[lime estuary]

So for the second half of 5.5, is it gonna be the same number of quests + a long ass cutscene? Or a smaller number of quests like 4.5?

[gaunt star]

We're not interested in talking to him

[teal geyser]

I did obviously end up doing the third option for the reasons you said Aya but...it's not what I wanted

[obsidian pagoda]

You don't talk to Fandaniel, he talks at you

[teal geyser]

We just needed ONE line where we basically agreed with Estinien, that's all we needed

[kindred rampart]

I'll try to understand him while feeding him a murder burger

[carmine basin]

Huh I thought the "certainly" part was more sarcastic, guess not

[late aurora]

“But dying is what he wants, if we kill him he wins.” Pfft

[severe brook]

"we can just lock him in a box. ez."

[gaunt star]

WoL has been getting more sarcastic. But they forced that line on us and I dont like it

[teal geyser]

Not sure what part of "wiping the smile off his face" sounds like killing him to you Aya

[dim sigil]

I mean really zenos wants to fight us he's gonna win his goals also 100%

[teal geyser]

Yeah, the worst moments in this game is when the writers fail to keep the player and the desired characterisation of the WoL in line with each other

[gaunt star]

I approve of cynical/sarcastic WoL. My WoL is not SOFT

Good is not soft

[carmine basin]

I swear I've heard some characters (in other games) say "I'll wipe that smile off your face" against smug characters they want to beat. But again I'm not native so maybe that expression has different connotations

[teal geyser]

Beat =/ kill

[forest magnet]

that already happened in Stormblood too. It's the most hollow victory out of all the expansions

[gaunt star]

I will break your arms and legs until you rehabilitate

[late aurora]

I’m gonna not-kill you so gosh darn hard

[teal geyser]

That line is literally saying "yeah I'll beat him and stop him and then I'll try reasoning with him" instead of "no this guy is crazy and has to be killed he's too dangerous"

[heady shadow]

oh no kill em

even if hes sitting there crying his eyes out

[gaunt star]

TV TROPES: Why don't you just shoot him!?

[gaunt star]

Deposit his corpse into the nearest bog

[teal geyser]

This line isn't as bad as like, letting Asahi shoot Tsuyu and whatnot while we just stand there but it was weirdly glaringly obvious in this patch anyway

[carmine basin]

Estinien's sentiment matches the playerbase's more then lol

[teal geyser]

Exactly why we are upset Aya

[gaunt star]

^^^^

[teal geyser]

NOTHING is worse than the game putting you on a leash and forcing you to try to be something you don't want to be

[torpid yoke]

answer 2 dont sit right with me

3 and 1 are fine to me

[elder moth]

Answer 2 was a nice one given what Hades asked at the end of The Dying Gasp

[dusk drift]

i settled for punching

🤔 i wonder if the devs keep track of how many people choose each response

[torpid yoke]

1 i can see our character at least wanting to understand why he is doing what hes doing and 3 speaks for itself

[gaunt star]

Hes not worth remembering

[dusk drift]

as a cautionary tale, perhaps

[teal geyser]

Which is why Ishikawa did a good job in ShB because she managed to characterise the WoL well WHILE making you feel the same way so at no point did you feel like you were at odds with the WoL.

Also yeah option 2 is a really shitty attempt at pandering for sadness points, the devs can actually fuck off with those, they do them every patch and it provides so much salt for me I could put Ala Mhigo out of business

[gaunt star]

Eli and emet were. Even LAHABREAD was

But not faildaniel

[teal geyser]

If they really wanted to have someone oppose Estinien in this dialogue it should have just been Alphinaud because then you aren't as a player forced into saying something dumb AND it fits into Alphinaud's dreams later on

[torpid yoke]

to be fair though there are some players that resonate with that

[teal geyser]

Sure but some isn't good enough and is a shitty argument Rymi

[next quarry]

i thought it was alright

I chose option 2

[gaunt star]

[dusk drift]

i'll remember him
remember the stupid look on his face when i cut his head off

[next quarry]

I dont like stuff thats too agressive or too passive

[somber storm]

I'll remember the why he is like this then kill him

[dusk drift]

https://tenor.com/view/why-michael-scott-the-office-why-are-the-way-that-you-are-gif-5593972

[teal geyser]

Really all we needed was "no fuck him" and that's it

[next quarry]

thats pretty mean

[teal geyser]

That's not that mean

[next quarry]

i dun wan be mean

[teal geyser]

Aza you kill people in this game

[late aurora]

He literally wants to end all life

[torpid yoke]

its still nice to try to give every player an option. though i would have liked at least one "fck that" option

[next quarry]

those arent people

[gaunt star]

In the words of my brother "id rather put my Lance through his heart and be done with it"

[teal geyser]

Right I'm not trying to say that they should remove all "try to understand him options" my point is that it was the ONLY option

[somber storm]

but killing him instantly will miss out on lore

[teal geyser]

I resonate more with his answer 1

[gaunt star]

Murder is the best solution

[next quarry]

you guys are

mean

[teal geyser]

Reminder that like, we at no point ever tried to reason with Nidhogg or Thordan or anyone. Literally NEVER

[clever flume]

/soothe aza

[somber storm]

/pet aza

[teal geyser]

and this man wants to DESTROY THE WORLD FOR NO REASON.

[carmine basin]

I picked option 2 Aza, moreso because it was referencing Emet

[dusk drift]

you don't get to say all the people we killed don't matter and then call us mean for wanting to kill another one

[teal geyser]

How can we act like we should try to understand him when he has literally done infinitely worse than any other villain and we didn't even try to get along with them?

[next quarry]

niddy had estty

[severe brook]

i mean Varis tried that with Emet, see how it ultimately went for him

[gaunt star]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

[teal geyser]

after we killed him

[next quarry]

then we kill him again

[somber storm]

I just go with the games flow since there can never be a game where we can be and say whatever we want

[carmine basin]

I personally don't know much about Fandaniel so I feel ambivalent towards him. He's not that different from theaterical JRPG villains

[severe brook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pCCyAE0Ikc

[dusk drift]

Disco Elysium tries really damn hard though

[next quarry]

i get the aggressive pov, but i just dont like it very much when options are straight up " fuck you "

[teal geyser]

You don't feel any sort of disconnect with your character after getting so invested? genuinely curious how you connect to your character here

[teal geyser]

I'm paraphrasing obviously but also we've said worse

[somber storm]

Easy, self insert

[lime estuary]

You don't have to choose the option that you dont resonate with. It's not a forced choice.

Im fine with it existing because I can ignore it. It'd be different if they forced a response on me.

[dusk drift]

it is when i don't resonate with any of them

[teal geyser]

But you can't self insert and say "yeah I go with the game flow and don't care when the game doesn't let me do what I would do as my character that I am self inserting as"

[gaunt star]

Varis is the only loyal Garlean I respect because at least he had the balls to try

[next quarry]

more choices are better

[teal geyser]

Gaius

[severe brook]

i would say Gaius but i'm guessing that's why you specified 'loyal'

[next quarry]

gaius really liked varis

[somber storm]

I mean I go with choices that I feel like I would pick

[carmine basin]

Would be nice if the choices are like the vampires: bloodline games, iirc there's like sets of choices for each personality

[somber storm]

Also I don't like being a bad guy

[severe brook]

though Varis and the Soranus twins were also like the only people who knew the truth

[gaunt star]

Gaius ain't loyal.

[teal geyser]

Okay we need to be clear here. Saying "fuck Fandaniel" is NOT being a bad guy

[somber storm]

Oh yeah, we haven't seen those twins in a while

[next quarry]

fuck fanny is just being horny

[late aurora]

Nani

[somber storm]

If only Fanny was the same as Aenor

[severe brook]

you know way back when i was expecting them to end up piloting Ruby and Sapphire Weapons

[forest magnet]

it's funny they're giving us that option for Fanny but not Zenos or Valens lol

[severe brook]

have them come after us and Gaius out of rage for 'killing' Varis

[teal geyser]

Literally at least Zenos has a known reason to reason with

[gaunt star]

[dusk drift]

[teal geyser]

Fanny do be kinda cute

[carmine basin]

Maybe they're tempered now and we'll end up fighting their tempered self

[dusk drift]

danny getting spitroasted by two roes

[teal geyser]

getting spitroasted by my and Estinien's spears

[dusk drift]

[next quarry]

???

[severe brook]

[forest magnet]

https://tenor.com/view/ganyu-horny-is-back-horny_is_back-gif-20085349

[next quarry]

Why do you want to cook him

[teal geyser]

innocent

[dusk drift]

you're next, Ganyu

[torpid yoke]

i think its because of what transpired in shb and the unsundered that we just now getting the option

[next quarry]

Just stab him

[teal geyser]

I mean....obviously but that's stupid regardless

[torpid yoke]

since we know about their plight. Though it just doesnt fit in this point

[forest magnet]

except he literally says he's different from them

[teal geyser]

Right

[torpid yoke]

Like he aint even unsundered he just baby mad

[dusk drift]

Full Thrust Heavy Thrust Inner Release Do you want it?

[next quarry]

Those hit hard

[somber storm]

[gaunt star]

[carmine basin]

Those dialogue choices fit WoL somewhat, considering in the DRK quests, they do feel guilty for killing the villains when I don't think the playerbase considered how the families of the villains feel

[teal geyser]

Hasty Touch Rear

[gaunt star]

MURDER is the best solution

[next quarry]

But really, we know danny doesn't care

But I'm interested in knowing what led up to that point

[carmine basin]

Inb4 he has a sad backstory and the fandpm woobifies him

[torpid yoke]

fair buts still i feel like its different in this case

[gaunt star]

No redemption , only corpse in bog

[next quarry]

Woobifies?

[torpid yoke]

and im usually the one that finds that stuff ok

Even im against trying to reason with him

[gaunt star]

Yotsuyu 2.0

[teal geyser]

No though because
A) we reconciled with that
B) That's literally like, a distilled concentrated feeling given form and not actually representative of our entire character
so that's dumb

[carmine basin]

I assumed Emet's plight and Elidibus's last words affected WoL more than us

[forest magnet]

But even Sid decapitated that inquistor, even after literally saying he would spare her.

[teal geyser]

Elidibus's last words affected WoL more than us
His last words being AHBFAFJABFAHJFLADBNFHA- oh wait no he talked about rains ceasing

[heady shadow]

at least that inquisitor smiled at her daughter for one last timwe

[dusk drift]

yeah but that lady literally went out of her way to commit suicide by protagonist

[teal geyser]

Sometimes I feel like everyone forgets how suicide Yotsuyu was

[dusk drift]

"how suicide yotsuyu was"

[teal geyser]

I'm not changing my wording

[gaunt star]

I respected her because her family was literally trash

They wanted to sell her back into slavery the moment they saw her again. Impressive.

She was redeemed because the other characters were worse

[torpid yoke]

in fact i find it even more an insult since fandanny is making a mockery of the unsundered plight and pain

[gaunt star]

Watch hydaelyn take the form of Yotsuyu

[teal geyser]

To be fair Rielle said "no fuck that bitch"

[carmine basin]

It's there enough to be given form. Like I don't think WoL feels regret from killing because there was no other choice and they know it has to be done, but the act of killing itself probably weighs on their mind subconsciously, enough that Myste was born

[teal geyser]

Gross, I'd actually hurt myself

[teal geyser]

Then I turn to point A

[heady shadow]

you want to hurt Gosetsu more dont you

[teal geyser]

Also the fact that we've been dealing with it already makes a point C in of itself

[tight marlin]

@teal geyser Sid: >looks at Rielle in like a "....should i?"
Rielle: Yeah im never gonna get that love, and i dont think you're gonna stop trying to kill me. time to read the death rites
Sid: A YES WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE

[dusk drift]

honestly gulkri it's already too late for that

[kindred rampart]

then when Lahabread finally gets his chance to make up for his final words against WoL. . .
Lahabread: Ok one second!
https://tenor.com/view/list-amazinggrace-court-watching-scroll-gif-13488308

[teal geyser]

someone get the simp

[tight marlin]

she already stepped on zodiark so hard it split the og world into 13

[carmine basin]

I'd think killing ascians is a different issue after we found out about their history

[dusk drift]

fuckin' weirdo

[tight marlin]

Hydaelyn vs Zodiark be like

[vale lotus]

FOOT DIVE!

[carmine basin]

Like we'd still kill Fandaniel but WoL seems to want to understand the reasoning why he'd go against ascians

[dusk drift]

DIVE KICK

the only fighting game i'm any good at

[tight marlin]

while Ryne shiva named it shattered world, the hydaelyn in her was super tempted to scream FOOT DIVE

instead she had to say some generic shit like "DELIVER SERENITY EVERLASTING"

[vale lotus]

Honestly... I'm surprised that nobody made G'raha Tia blasting WoL!Elidibus with DESTRUCTIVE FINISH.

[tight marlin]

@vale lotus i could probably edit that lol

[teal geyser]

"CBT"

[tight marlin]

....the therapy or the torture?

[teal geyser]

take a guess

[rough kestrel]

I still find Graha's phrasing when he sealed Elidibus kind of odd. I assume it's theatrics but...

[tight marlin]

well, if its the latter
it explains why zodiark is taking so long to revive

[dusk drift]

cock and ball therapy

cognito behavioral torture
aka christmas with my dad's side of the family

[kindred rampart]

https://youtu.be/qLmFBM2WjOo

[tight marlin]

Emet: Master Zodiark, please explain why this is necessary for your revival....
Zodiark: It is of no consequence. I do not need to explain it to u....
Zodiark internally: I still feel the pain of her foot dive onto my dick! WHY DID SHE KICK ME IN THE DICK WITH HER HEELS???

all of a sudden
Hydaelyn: FOOT DIVE
Zodiark: GOD DAMMIT

[carmine basin]

It's just a matter of time where we get a statue of Hydaelyn foot diving Zodiark and we get that as an emote

[somber storm]

Shiva step

[tight marlin]

i remember about some people saying that zodiark looks like he's in pain, but given the position of the art, i can confidently say that this is zodiark suffering from a foot dive

[torpid yoke]

now flip it

[tight marlin]

oh if u flip it its some generic shit about how darkness is winning against light yada yada

[torpid yoke]

im doing feast again and man i miss plat

[distant sonnet]

It looks like Hydaelyn belted him across the face with that staff.

[teal geyser]

Hyd: "Zoddy it's time for your daily CBT~"
Zod: "Yes sweety..."

[vale lotus]

Man, considering I've also played DFFOO, I know the art's meant to make them look like Cosmos and Chaos, but imagine if they're really Materia and Spiritus

[carmine basin]

Is if just me or is there a smileyface on Hydaelyn's staff

[teal geyser]

I hate you

[tight marlin]

Ryne: I feel like i'm too young to know about this
Gaia: I dont think you'll ever be old enough for this
Ryne: You're like 500 years old though
Gaia: I know. Mitron asked for the steppies one time
Ryne: The....steppies...?
Minfilia: I swear to god this is what happens when Thancred leaves Ryne alone for a day....

[teal geyser]

Ryne: You're like 500 years old though
/doubt

[distant sonnet]

Or. The red and blue are eyes. And the thing to the right, a mouth.

[teal geyser]

that is what I saw when Aya mentioned it and now I double hate Aya

[tight marlin]

@teal geyser i mean, how old are the ascians

just take that age and add...like...idunno....16 to it? that's gaia's age

[teal geyser]

Depends on who you are talking about but Gaia is literally her own person, she is JUST 16ish

This is like saying we as a character are over 12k years old

[vale lotus]

I imagine by the time we get to the moon and knock on Hydaelyn's door, she'll turn out to be some fat mom and be "Why are you guys here? Last I remember, weren't you like fighting the Warrior of Darkness?"

"Yeah, MOM, I AM the Warrior of Darkness!"

[tight marlin]

more specifically the character Loghrif

[teal geyser]

Loghrif is dead

[tight marlin]

who is gaia the eulmore goth gf
u get what i mean probably

[vale lotus]

Yes

[distant sonnet]

Yes. And at the same time no.

[teal geyser]

No she very much is dead

[carmine basin]

Just noticed Zodiark is breathing some kind of fumes and those fumes are the same color as the details on Hydaelyn

[distant sonnet]

I get it but people get this way with any form of sexual joke involving Gaia, Ryne or the twins.

For.. pretty obvious reasons.

[vale lotus]

Also... Emet-Selch was only just hiding back his TRUE form...

[tight marlin]

Hades' staff is just a "go to horny jail" bonk stick for Hydaelyn

[distant sonnet]

Forearms thicker than his waist. The Underworld had a gym, apparently.

[carmine basin]

Unrealistic ideal male body

[distant sonnet]

I mean literally a god so

[vale lotus]

Hell, why do you think Emperor Varis got so strong as well?

He just took days upon end swinging at grandpa. Remember when he just headshotted him cause he was annoying him?

[heady shadow]

||the reason why Valens popped is because of the milk||

[somber storm]

Nah ||lack of milk||

[torpid yoke]

its mini valens :D

[iron scaffold]

||I thought he popped because he looks like a weasel ||

[heady shadow]

lol

[gaunt star]

His face is like "Burn out the....what? Man...I dont have time for this..."

[torpid yoke]

someone nuke the dps fourms please ty

[clever flume]

what are they whining about

[gaunt star]

what are they not whining about

[vale lotus]

You don't have to use spoiler tags here

[teal geyser]

We know

[torpid yoke]

mch mobility

[clever flume]

[torpid yoke]

i want gun mage and bow mage back

[clever flume]

whats wrong with mch

[torpid yoke]

Nothing the person just wants mch to have more mobility

and self healing option

[drowsy belfry]

More mobility

[clever flume]

?? sprint and second wind??

[deft burrow]

BOW MAGE

[drowsy belfry]

It can move while attacking???? what more do you need?

[iron scaffold]

Drg- welcome back to the Floor club

[torpid yoke]

another thing commonly seen there is the range phys mobility tax

[gaunt star]

next they'll say they want mch to have a jump back like bard does

[deft burrow]

thank god for that

[drowsy belfry]

Sounds like this dude just sucks at dodging AoEs and his Healers aren't healing him cause he keeps dying

[deft burrow]

ranged dps is so safe lul

[clever flume]

it would be nice if repelling shot didnt require a target

[torpid yoke]

and to get rid of that mobility tax they should bring back bow mage and gun mage

[drowsy belfry]

BRD really needs flaming arrow back

[torpid yoke]

ngl i kinda forget repeling shot is a thing since it no longer does damage

[clever flume]

most people probably have

its range 5y so...

[gaunt star]

Why does bard even have repelling shot

[torpid yoke]

idk i feel like flaming arrow wasnt that important

[teal geyser]

Fun skill

[drowsy belfry]

God speaking of BRDs, here's a total annoyance I have since 5.0

[torpid yoke]

smn should get shadow flare back though

actually no fck summoner give it to sch

[drowsy belfry]

90% of the Bards in PF and DF that I run into use Shadowbite on singletargets

[teal geyser]

wide volley though

[drowsy belfry]

and when I see those fucking purple lines hit a boss I'm just like "WHY"

[torpid yoke]

people dont read

[teal geyser]

Or do too much PvP lol

[torpid yoke]

that too

[clever flume]

well purple lines are better than whatever sidewinder's animation is

[torpid yoke]

redish black lines but they are lower

also that too. give back wide volley and granado shot

duck this cone poop

everything would be better with range phy casters again. Dnc kinda already has mini cast times with dancers so itd fit QuQ

[dim sigil]

Do we even have knock back skills anymore

Like at all because there's a debuff in Palace of the Dead where they don't work something and I'm like I don't think any jobs have them anymore

[torpid yoke]

only blue mage does

[tidal mauve]

The manticore transformation doesn't one shot without knockback

[fallen wolf]

so i just finished the weapons storyline

and i gotta admit, i love Gaius' development on this one

Valen: I HAVE DATA ON YOU GAIUS, YOU CANNOT WIN
Gaius: BEHOLD THE PLOT BULLET

[strange wing]

How very Glib

[dusk drift]

i did the diamond fight with some friends, and when valens panicked and started scrolling through his tablet one of them yelled "wait i have the perfect meme for this"

[fallen wolf]

ROFL someone make a gif of that with context

[subtle pasture]

Was Terminus Est Crocea Mors something he learned/adapted from someone or something, didn’t recognize it if so

[dusk drift]

also "this legatus dead, yeet!"

[fallen wolf]

dunno, but he's been keepin some custom bullets for situational stuff lol

[tight marlin]

i heard it was made after his estinien team up attack in theory

[dusk drift]

it's just like Thancred's Plot Bullet
just, you know, without any foreshadowing or in-story justification

[subtle pasture]

Fair enough, I thought it was one of those anime “I picked up new techniques from my FRIENDS”

[fallen wolf]

Gaius: YOU FELL FOR IT FOOL
TERMINUS EST CROSS SPLIT ATTACK

[subtle pasture]

I suppose with how it’s named, it might have been a technique of Varis’

[strange wing]

Also Thancred's genjutsu thing

[dusk drift]

honestly i half expected the bullet to be a bluff and gaius was just gonna run up and gut him while he was fiddling with his ipad

[subtle pasture]

Crocea Mors was Julius Caesar’s legendary sword, for the real world inspiration

[late aurora]

Yo, Terminus Est Crocea Mors pretty much means “This is yellow death”

Which is rad

[fallen wolf]

ngl, it does sound badass

[balmy mesa]

The Ending, Yellow Death, apparently

[dusk drift]

🤔 why yellow

[dim sigil]

Him shouting his name attack was so cheesy

[dusk drift]

anime

[dim sigil]

Because it's an Easter egg to the Final Fantasy Unlimited anime where each bullet had the colors

[strange wing]

Oh no. Gauis weaponized his yellow fever.

[subtle pasture]

“Terminus Est” literally translates as “this is the end” but more figuratively it’s, well, being a weapon that ends lives

[strange wing]

Well, people die when they are killed so

[tight marlin]

valens: I AM IMMUNE TO BLUE
gaius: >yellow attack
valens:

[balmy mesa]

I wonder how he charged it up, was there something I missed - thought Garleans couldn't manipulate aether?

[strange wing]

Gunblades can do magic or something

[dusk drift]

he just had a Special Bullet that Valens didn't know about

[fallen wolf]

y does that sound like he pulled a yellow uno card xD

[dusk drift]

that's literally all it was

[balmy mesa]

yellow reverse card

[late aurora]

Gaius: “I learned this trick from the funi skeleton game”

[tight marlin]

they cant use magic so everything they use is magic to make them feel better

[teal geyser]

I mean, Zenos has an electro scabbard and Gaius and Regula just use ceruleum, quite simple answers really

[fallen wolf]

i mean, Thancred cant use his gunblade properly :v

[teal geyser]

pick your explanation

[fallen wolf]

so we gotta make the bullets for him xD

[subtle pasture]

I came out with the impression Crocea Mors was being named for someone, but suppose it is just Gaius badassery

[balmy mesa]

mm, fair

[subtle pasture]

On the technical level all we can really suppose is that the bullet’s payload wasn’t ceruleum in origin?

Given, well, yellow.

[teal geyser]

it's pee

[tight marlin]

gaius dyed it. thats all

when u think about it. Diamond Weapon is just Weapons ultimate

[oak pike]

omega weapon omega

[strange wing]

Also reminder that G-warrior is not only still alive but will be getting color coded siblings

[oak pike]

OwO

[somber storm]

Female G Warrior

[fallen wolf]

G warrior mount

[strange wing]

I am so excite

[late aurora]

But is it pink or yellow?

[dim sigil]

What was with the golden diamond weapon that was datamined

[somber storm]

The same colour as the female version of the main gundam

[dim sigil]

Is it just unused content

[oak pike]

there was a golden diamond?

[late aurora]

It’s for Diamond weapon EX EX

[strange wing]

Probably unused stuff yea. Like how Emerald turns gold in phase 2

[dim sigil]

A gaius pbase

[tropic frigate]

i wonder did diamond weapon ever disappear?

[severe brook]

nah the chassis survived

[strange wing]

Cid got his mitts on it

[severe brook]

probably powerless now without the memory core, but the bulk of it is still intact

[dim sigil]

With it being a ifirt recolor u wonder if it was like under time constraints

[subtle pasture]

Are the G-Saviors separate G-Warriors or just the rigging and platform they’re strapped to

[tropic frigate]

memory you say?

[severe brook]

rigging and platform

[strange wing]

He is getting a distressing amount of doomsday weapons

[dim sigil]

It's G Warrior and they made a second one and the creator of the second one very much wanted to be red over the Ironworks blue

[oak pike]

Cid and Nero really are going to have a fun time with those weapons

[subtle pasture]

Kk, I wasn’t exactly sure.

[strange wing]

Wasnt G-Warrior 2 made from Ruby Weapon?

That's what I took from it.

[obsidian pagoda]

Crocea Mors is Gaius Julius Caesar's weapon

[subtle pasture]

Made from a collection of spare parts iirc so it’d prob be a lot more chimerical than the Mark I

Which is mostly the Ultima Warrior, etc

[torpid yoke]

thye made g-warrior so we can have gundam battles in space in EW

[dim sigil]

Ill do it again x3

[strange wing]

And to combine into G-JUSTICE

[severe brook]

we need the apple-flavored green G-Warrior. we already have cherry and blue raspberry.

[strange wing]

Ah okay I think I missed that. I thought they used Ruby Weapon scrap in the construction

[subtle pasture]

What’s the speech bubble before this one orz

[dim sigil]

Idr

[oak pike]

Im assuming the red is because of Nero

[severe brook]

it is

[subtle pasture]

Absolutely,

[dim sigil]

That dialog box heavily allude to it

[strange wing]

Yea, Nero being Nero

[dim sigil]

Always gotta one up cid

Trust nero when

[strange wing]

This one probably has TWO beam swords

[dim sigil]

If he's a trust that means he has to essentially be part of the main party

[severe brook]

true challenge pissing

https://twitter.com/fittingxivsongs/status/1347316505210478592

images with fitting ffxiv music (@fittingxivsongs)

( 5.4 spoilers ) https://t.co/ilarSXz3bS

Retweets

143

Likes

296

Twitter · Jan 7, 2021, 10:57 PM

[dim sigil]

There it is

Gold diamond wepon

[severe brook]

i suppose there was an intent for it to form that anti-magic shell as a way to channel Emerald at some point?

[tropic frigate]

honestly diamond coulda been poggers if it actually did something from all of them

[torpid yoke]

probably

[tropic frigate]

maybe they were planning that and it still rewards 2 totems

[torpid yoke]

it does though?

[oak pike]

"Fuck you Eozera, you gonna be wiped out with my PISS color mecha"

[severe brook]

it does though

[tropic frigate]

yeah but not like fully from the others

[severe brook]

uses Ruby's Claws, Sapphire's Lasers, Emerald's...also lasers, also hands

[tropic frigate]

its just small attacks

[torpid yoke]

do you mean whole mechanics?

[tropic frigate]

yea like they coulda put a lot more into that

[strange wing]

And also turns into Ifrit for some reason.

[dim sigil]

I mean it looks kinda cooolish

[severe brook]

do you mean something like it being able to turn into Adamant-armored copies of the other Weapons? or something like that?

[tropic frigate]

is the shoulder shots even like diamond specific or from one of the others?

because it of course seems more just like a diamond thing

[severe brook]

general shoulder shots are diamond specific. sometimes when they're more intense and focused, they're from Emerald

[torpid yoke]

the shoulders are emerald weapon spread mechanic

[oak pike]

BROOO imagine it turned into a wolf

[fallen wolf]

lol Zoids

[torpid yoke]

well it turns into an berserk evangelion

[heady shadow]

remember when protect was a thing

[fallen wolf]

GET IN THE ROBOT, ALFONSE

[oak pike]

man remember when our introduction to valen was him working out shirtless infront of kids then drinking milk

[rough kestrel]

I will say Diamond having almost no forced Downtime and being fast paced with no cutscenes makes it the best weapon fight by far to do

[somber storm]

Don't forget doing bad shit to Allie

[oak pike]

yerp

[balmy mesa]

remember the sweat physics

[oak pike]

then we see valen

[obsidian pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/sacrifice-evil-bosses-shrek-lord-farquaad-some-of-you-may-die-gif-16648565

[subtle pasture]

Never forget that special Werlyt cow milk

[oak pike]

the idea that theres milk cartons in FFXIV weirds me out

[subtle pasture]

Alfonse took the most abuse of his siblings, at least he’s finally at peace

[torpid yoke]

and got to pop the zit that is valens

[oak pike]

legit everyone involved with the weapons storyline needs some type of therapy cause jesus

[dim sigil]

Yeah wol got depression cuz no more g warrior

[teal geyser]

Same, more than anything

[subtle pasture]

I don’t think I could see Gaius’ interactions with the Overmind or Allie and Avilina with the projections of the memory core without tearing up

[dim sigil]

How else will you get strong bones

[subtle pasture]

—I just thought about “I’m so proud to have been your son” and I’m bawling again

[oak pike]

FUCK

[subtle pasture]

Avilina when she saw the projection of Milisandia...

https://tenor.com/view/crying-sobbing-hurting-13rw-13reasons-why-gif-15344780

[oak pike]

shit feels empty after the weapons story line like we won and shit but knowing the damages

[subtle pasture]

I was bawling when I saw it myself and sobbing when I watched some streamers’ reactions to it

Suffice to say I love the Werlyt story, tl;dr

I’m not prepared for 6.0 and all the people we’re going to be too late to save

[oak pike]

https://twitter.com/fittingxivsongs/status/1373479115026751490 heres a shitpost to make you feel better for now

images with fitting ffxiv music (@fittingxivsongs)

https://t.co/zO2hKIdm0q

Retweets

1387

Likes

2665

Twitter · Mar 21, 2021, 3:38 AM

[bold condor]

It's actually the best trial series story hands down.

[oak pike]

weapons story makes me sad

[teal geyser]

Not like there was much of a bar to be fair

Warring Triad didn't have much of a plot happening frankly and Four Lords ending was...hmmm

[oak pike]

like SB trial story was more like "hey some animals are acting up mind beating them up"

[subtle pasture]

Suzaku was probably the most moving of the Lords and wellllllll

[dim sigil]

While diamond wasnt the greatest there was nothing like well i feel cheated not being able to fight the big bad

[subtle pasture]

Thirst bird is a big meme now

[teal geyser]

I'm not sheathing my sword

[oak pike]

ill sheath my sword for suzaku

[subtle pasture]

When she said Tenzin never had the chance to see her humanoid form

[teal geyser]

okay yeah for real that was saddo

[bold condor]

tbf both Werlyt and Four Lords finish the main antagonist in a cutscene, it's just that Valens is obviously no match for you so it's okay

[teal geyser]

Yeah

[oak pike]

i forgot the main villian for four lords

[bold condor]

And narratively Gaius and Alfonse deserved the win more

[teal geyser]

Fucking...horse bro

[subtle pasture]

The person(s) who deserved the killing blow the most, got it

[teal geyser]

Khoryu? Something like that

[bold condor]

Koryu.

[teal geyser]

fuck almost said Koryu but thought there was a H in there somewhere

[subtle pasture]

Also that said person(s) was the collective memory of all those lost to the SAS research

[clever flume]

honestly dont really mind the fact that we never fought koryu, i kind of like that we actual managed to do what we set out to do. which was keep that fucker contained

[oak pike]

four lords ultimate, final phase is fighting koryu lol

[bold condor]

But the thing about Koryu is that the story was about gathering the Four Lords to stop Koryu's reawakening and that is, indeed, what happens. So the issue is more that the narrative didn't follow the usual trope.

We could have gotten Koryu as a fight if Greg round 3 wasn't one, perhaps.

[severe brook]

Kohryu is spelled with an H sometimes in his romanization

just not in XIV

[subtle pasture]

Other Werlyt things, I’ll probably always be in shock the shot of Alfonse with his siblings in his eye was Overmind foreshadowing

[teal geyser]

You know actually that makes...how many big bads we never actually defeat? 2? Cloud of Darkness and Koryu?

[subtle pasture]

That scene and all the projections watching Valens have the life squeezed out of him

[teal geyser]

Okay I feel vindicated thank you

[bold condor]

Cloud of Darkness is at least fought, granted.

Also we don't technically defeat Alexander, he just lets us proceed after taking our measure.

[oak pike]

we just told CoD to fuck off right?

[severe brook]

more like we beat her up to make her let us fuck off

[teal geyser]

More gave the clones time to tell her to fuck off yeah

[subtle pasture]

Also that I feel so bad for worrying Avilina was a spy and her reaction to Mili in the SAS projections over Terncliff is AHHHHH

[bold condor]

Which, if my theory is correct, is because Alexander is showing off itself to Cid to give mankind a chance at averting the Eighth Umbral Calamity.

[pulsar yacht]

Containment bay reminds me is ff13 and how they couldnt be assed to give the player lore in the form of cutscenes or npc dialog in game

[teal geyser]

So under this theory at what point could Alex not see the future ahead of us?

after we changed the timeline?

[bold condor]

Yes.

[oak pike]

Alex reaction when the Umbral calamity happens

[subtle pasture]

I do like how each Triad member had their unique prisons. I’d be down to get a tattoo of Sophia’s cage it was such a pretty design

[bold condor]

Nah, the Calamity occurring is necessary for it to be averted.

[teal geyser]

Well I guess it'd be like, more specifically when G'raha goes back in time

[oak pike]

damn

[bold condor]

By showing itself off to Cid, it plants the seed for time travel.

[severe brook]

man you know we never talk about how Sephirot got bisected

[teal geyser]

But he'd have no way of knowing if that time travel plan would work...if I'm thinking this right

[bold condor]

Nope, Alexander gambled it on us.

[severe brook]

and Zurvan probably got his wings stripped off

[teal geyser]

Because Alex is a fucking good boy

[bold condor]

Which is 100% in line with the themes of Shadowbringers.

By overcoming its test, we show that we may have the strength to avert the coming doom.

[tulip geyser]

If we didnt have plot armor, pushing us into an Apocalyptic timeline is a big gamba indeed

[bold condor]

I doubt Alexander foresaw Fandaniel and Zenos.

[subtle pasture]

iirc the Genesis Engine, which was a breakthrough in their chimera research, is attributed to studying Sephirot’s ability of Propagation?

[bold condor]

What's funny is Alexander's not even the only seer who had this happen to them.

[subtle pasture]

Lots of neat side lore for Azys Lla

[oak pike]

i remember shedding a happy tear for mide's ending in alex

[teal geyser]

I gotta ask though because my Alex lore is shaky because fucking time magic but....didn't they admit that being summoned wasn't part of Alex's plan and then he just timelooped himself because he had to? Sure he might have also done what he did for Cid but...I'm not sure he had a choice in the matter frankly

[bold condor]

A lot of what Alexander is and does has to do with carefully trying to avert its own destructive nature.

[severe brook]

ain't even got legs

[teal geyser]

Wait no...can he not predict something and then timeloop? Isn't that contradictory ahhhhhhh

[bold condor]

But when it comes down to it, Alexander is powerful enough to undo itself if it really wants to.

[teal geyser]

Fuck loooooooops

[oak pike]

i think i can draw a picture for this

[late aurora]

Lööp

[bold condor]

And since Alexander is the one in control, not Quickthinx or Mide, we then have to ask "what was so important that Alexander did all of this for?"

[carmine basin]

Fruit loops

[bold condor]

And the only straight answer I could find is Tycoon.

[serene crest]

We got this crystal shit that makes us double immortal. We don’t even need it!

[teal geyser]

because the effort it takes to undo itself entirely might be more than it'd take to simply seal itself away again?

[oak pike]

alex time loop until WoL reached him?

[severe brook]

what if the Daughter was one of Sophia's extreme-tempered

[bold condor]

But Alexander does seal itself away.

[subtle pasture]

When was he exactly summoned again, I always forget orz it’s like an incomplete summoning with Mide’s team with the Codex and the Horn of Seal Rock, which saw Dayan and the rest of the team succ’d into a time rift... then the actual summoning was when it was manifested into the sunken fortress after 3.0???

[teal geyser]

y-yes

[bold condor]

And could have done at any point.

[severe brook]

We even got this skull! Shows Bahamut's corpse's head.
Hell if I know where it came from. This really is the high life!

[teal geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/no-brain-loading-slow-gif-16361840

You know it's 7 AM and I haven't slept I'm not even going to humour arguing this because my poor brain

[bold condor]

If that were the case (being unable to undo itself) then the alternative would be to just close the time loop by sealing itself the moment Mide arrives and not bothering with the fights.

[oak pike]

this my understanding of alexander time loop shit so far

time loops makes things complicated

[bold condor]

But it didn't act on its own until we beat Alexander Prime.

[brazen stag]

Don't forget the 8th UmbralWorks timeline that made the Tycoon.

[teal geyser]

smile and nods

[oak pike]

alright so my diagram is way off

[brazen stag]

Maybe put it diverging upwards from the right curve of the circle.

[bold condor]

And the fact that Alexander Prime inspired Tycoon, and that Dayan tells Mide that our fate is part of Alexander's reasons for acting, makes me feel that the fight was itself the point of the whole Alexander storyline.

Both to test our ability and to show Cid the possibility of taming the wings of time.

[subtle pasture]

...which one happened first again, the first Illuminati attempt at summoning that left behind Shanoa and the journal, or Mide and Dayan with the Codex and horn

[bold condor]

Yes.

[oak pike]

so alex been tokyo drifting through time just so we get to the alexander prime fight?

[bold condor]

Time is flat roundshape.

A circle has no beginning, so what happens first is not really clear.

[wet mountain]

Wtf is this strat even ....

[teal geyser]

Rommy you need to explain this in gobbie speak

[late aurora]

We go forward to go back, so Alex can go back to go forward

[bold condor]

Mide and Dayan returning to the past and founding the Hotgo sets in motion the Enigma Codex's creation and Quickthinx's aspirations. But the Enigma Codex and Quickthinx are what lead to Mide and Dayan returning to the past and founding the Hotgo.

[pulsar yacht]

Goodbye world is spreading :|

[bold condor]

Time is flat roundshape indeed.

[subtle pasture]

But yeah basically my understanding of Alexander hinges on him manifesting in the sunken fortress as his “true” summoning, so to speak

[tulip geyser]

So like
Is Alex pretty much the only thing that "gets" time and how to get wanted results out of poking the timestream? Cause yeah us mortal types fixed the Eighth buuuut now we might have accidentally driven into the End of All Things doing so

[bold condor]

Nope, because he'd have had to exist before then for the Hotgo to arrive at that fortress.

Because the Hotgo don't exist without Alexander.

But also Alexander doesn't exist without the Hotgo.

[teal geyser]

So can you explain how this has no definite start point Rommy but the whole Garland/Chaos thing does?

[oak pike]

so is it possible Alex is from outside of the main timeline ?

[teal geyser]

I swear you've said the FF1 timeloop has one

[bold condor]

The Garland/Chaos thing doesn't in its native game, but Dissidia's writing more or less retcons in a clear beginning to the loop.

But even then, the loop being capable of being broken at all in FF1 implies that the events are not repeating perfectly each time.

[teal geyser]

I...you got me there

[oak pike]

so a paradox happens and alex is now in the loop

[subtle pasture]

Right, that’s the closed loop, so I always considered its “start” to be when Dayan was succ’d into the Codex and/or when Quickthinx followed the journal’s writings to manifest Alex in the fortress

“Start” in the heaviest of quotations, of course

[bold condor]

Right but Dayan can't be born without Alexander.

https://tenor.com/view/cross-eyed-austin-powers-gif-10886939

[late aurora]

TIME TURNING ON US ALWAYS

[subtle pasture]

Yeah, suppose what I’m getting at is coming into the fortress isn’t Alexander’s “birth” so much as just, well, his latest physical vessel, as primals do

[oak pike]

my new shit diagram

[bold condor]

You can't pinpoint an exact moment of birth because Alexander's summoning requires Alexander's summoning to have already occured.

[teal geyser]

See Dayan implies that the summoning was a definitive start though because due to that Alex had to do something, if there was no real start then...Alex wouldn't have needed to do anything since it had already happ-oh fuck me

[bold condor]

bleed the land of aether. sounds like it'd be pretty static. like the burn. like the empty.

[subtle pasture]

So that’s about the fortress summoning, r-right

[serene crest]

Tl;dr paradoxes are messy yo

[bold condor]

^

[teal geyser]

eh I guess he then admits that it's already a cycle because fuck meeeeeeeeeeeeee

[bold condor]

It's like asking who wrote the Song of Storms in Ocarina of Time.

You learn it from the Windmill Man, then go back in time and teach it to the Windmill Man.

Master Sword time travel is a closed loop, so it's not an alternate timeline.

[subtle pasture]

Nah it still checks out, what Dayan is saying is that Quickthinx summoning the fortress is what pushed Alexander to reshape its loop to bring about that end

[teal geyser]

Wait no fuck off this means he created the timeloop which means he must have had a start to it :UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Kill me

[subtle pasture]

—I forgot Shanoa is clockwork

[bold condor]

Mhm but the moment that he created the loop is now detached from time

Because the creation of the loop requires the loop to have been created.