#retired-patch-6-3-discussion

1 messages · Page 250 of 1

unreal wadi
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Since Zantentsuken is the reason why a normal person will be Odin

gaunt star
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I've wondered the same, Odin is the odd Primal out compared to the summoning of the other's by beast tribes. Meaning other special cases such as Shiva or Tsukuyomi are possible.

untold gull
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ya, i got the chance of lunar primals but bismarck

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the giant whale taht flies in teh sky. i think that's more problematic than down below xD

unreal wadi
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Also, with Krile travelling to Sharlayan, I assume thats one of the stops in Endwalker?

gaunt star
#

Atleast Suzaku and the other lords are not primals so we don't have to worry about that..

unreal wadi
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man

wind bough
pulsar current
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when was the last time Krile traveled with the WOL in MSQ?

serene crest
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4.5? I think? When we went to talk to Matoya about the Scions missing souls.

pulsar current
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ah

iron scaffold
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4.5 IIRC

stuck yarrow
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I can’t wait for 5.55

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Not just because new content but also cuz the numbers

tulip geyser
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I want things to go hilariously sideways.
Make me genuinely nervous like 2.55

brisk quail
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I need the BOZJA 3

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And BETTER AUGMENTED GEAR so i can BEAT DB SAVAGE

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Also relic too.. i guess that's a thing

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But BOZJA 3

kindred rampart
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I imagine Alph finds out about his new job in 5.55 and leaves by the end. I imagine we meet back up with him in the early parts of 6.0

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of course with a grand entrance

unborn lantern
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one of the twins gotta die this next patch

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Zenos torturing one to death

balmy mesa
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not possible

clever flume
unborn lantern
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If zenos really is twisted, enix need to have some balls

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i ain't feeling his psycho nature that enix wants to show

brisk quail
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Zenos doesn't want anyone but WoL

clever flume
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ok but they don't need to have zenos torture a 16 yr old to do that

brisk quail
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He doesn't want to waste his time on rabble.

Now... Fandainel is a diffrent story

unborn lantern
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I want Joker type of psycho

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Not zenos, weeb

late aurora
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You do tho, Zenos is kinda obsessed with WoL

brisk quail
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Like... Fanny is the only one of the two who'd even really fuck with anyone besides the WoL

unborn lantern
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Our relationship is like Joker & Batman

dim sigil
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If anyones dying its the scar faced ddue

unborn lantern
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so there needs to be a robin

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and alphinaud must DIE

clever flume
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regardless though twins arent going to die

unborn lantern
clever flume
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since both of them are in the teaser trailer for EW

late aurora
#

And the whole Alphinaud being a Sage thing

unborn lantern
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he gonna pass us the knowledge cus he gonna die

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so we become sage bcaSleep1

turbid aspen
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sorry but only physical wol

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mind?
intelligence? never heard of em

brisk quail
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WoL has been historically physical

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Mainly melee physicals.

unborn lantern
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Enix did never had the balls to kill off any special characters

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just look at Y'shtola...

turbid aspen
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valid

late aurora
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Mutha, have you played HW?

turbid aspen
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about yshtola anyway

brisk quail
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HW had like 3-5 integral characters fucking diw

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Yshtola though. She's immortal... shes the magnet for all the horny of the community

unborn lantern
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Bunch of underage twinks on our side? Come on. We need more adults.

clever flume
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i dont really understand people's obsession with killing of characters in the story though

turbid aspen
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?????

brisk quail
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Thancred?

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Urianger?
Estinien?
Yshtola?

turbid aspen
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the twins are like the only underaged people in the scions

unborn lantern
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they're useless, we can find better teams

turbid aspen
#

fuckin who

late aurora
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In conclusion, No the twins aren’t dying so move on with your life

unborn lantern
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In conclusion they will die, when ffxiv dies

turbid aspen
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well yeah man they're basically the protagonists besides the wol

brisk quail
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FFXIV? Die. snael

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Funny joke. This game will be on life support until the servers melt.

unborn lantern
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we never know

turbid aspen
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it'll definitely die when yoshida dies

unborn lantern
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huge meteor might hit the earth the next day or the other day

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and BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!

turbid aspen
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but who knows maybe he'll pull an araki

brisk quail
late aurora
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The game dies when people stop giving them money, so like see ya in X years

turbid aspen
unborn lantern
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there's sites that does better job than they do, much cheaper too, the only money enix gets are subscription muneeeh, actually they also get it from the site and just sells it cheaper nvm i'm stoopid

subtle pasture
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Zenos needs to be more psycho
Was being upsetti spaghetti he lost his deadly dragon army and leading nuclear beast not approachin' that?

rain onyx
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Also him killing Varis because he wanted to use Black Rose? And destroying remaining supplies of said Black Rose?

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granted he probably did that because fandaniel said not to use the stuff.

tropic frigate
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he seems insane enough and he doesnt always gotta show it

subtle pasture
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Surprised he was even upset over losing Lunar Bahamut and his tempered Meracydians when, since we're the one to put him down, woulda just shown it wasn't worth his time anyway.

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Then again, suppose setting up his big stage is the focus atm

tropic frigate
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yea im kinda wondering why he got upset over it at all considering he's the one who wants to get it on that 1v1

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that is unless its to work towards this goal

subtle pasture
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All the tempered people in the capital being ordered to build the Garlean super tower catConcern

tropic frigate
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perfectly fine if it is then

serene crest
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He wanted to ride a cool dragon again and we stole that from him haha

turbid aspen
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dragon chads win yet again

late aurora
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He’s preparing for the perfect set piece. Him and WoL fighting on a tower, shirtless, in the rain.

turbid aspen
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lala wol has a shadow of the colossus boss fight for the final battle

subtle pasture
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GIANT 👏 OF 👏 BABIL

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But no I wouldn't be surprised if the Imperial Capital of Garlemald gets the big reveal that Zenos's super-tower can move,

stuck yarrow
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Running the Nier raid repeatedly to get hair so I can fund my dol/doh expenditures

subtle pasture
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Giant of Babil is just a big fucking robot in the moon so I can't see a IV-inspired plot not taking it when a magitek empire is involved

kindred rampart
# subtle pasture GIANT 👏 OF 👏 BABIL

I imagine there will be a similar structure eventually but I imagine he'll chuck a bunch of Garleans into the tower to summon up a primal as soon as we arrive as an "appetizer"

stuck yarrow
#

So that’s what, 3 melee (including endwalker job) that Derplander hasn’t been yet?
When will the mages get our day?

subtle pasture
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Even Babil/Bab-II aside, the Garlemald Tower is already lining up as a Tower of Babel if he's got this tempered lot on construction

stuck yarrow
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I just wanna see the man smack Zenos with a book

turbid aspen
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astrologian/scholar wol gives zenos a paper cut

heady shadow
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so we can prob assume almost all the garleans are probably gonna die off?

dim sigil
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Ya even know even if we fight win and kill Zenos that still means he accomplished he goals and succeeded

subtle pasture
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I hope not, esp with Nerva still unaccounted for, but, can't not rule it out cryingcatto

stuck yarrow
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You see in endwalker eos gets a skill that does twice the damage of misery

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HRNG I wanna play sage so bad

turbid aspen
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broil IV but it is now a literal nuke

late aurora
subtle pasture
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A colossal super-tower would likewise have an insane number of people bound inside for whatever the hell it's intended to summon, blobsweatbutfast

kindred rampart
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Endwalker has a new Fairy form where she goes giant and carries the Scholar like a book

dim sigil
subtle pasture
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--I just realized the Towers and Lunar Primals aren't far off the Reapers' life cycle in Mass Effect,

heady shadow
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honestly it would be very... interesting move for the devs to kill 90% of garleans off in 6.0

subtle pasture
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Also, the Fayth, esp Dream Zanarkand

stuck yarrow
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when will we get carbuncle glams for our fairies 😔

subtle pasture
kindred rampart
heady shadow
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yeah with like the last remainign 100 or so sure

subtle pasture
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Consider this, Garlemald's capital is 70% Garleans, 30% other-- numbers not including slaves and servants

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so it's certainly more than just Garleans building that Tower

heady shadow
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either way, everyone there is prob fucked unless we can possibly fixed it

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which...doesnt look like we can?

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with all the uh...fleshy shit there

dim sigil
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Theres a spine there also so bones to

kindred rampart
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I imagine Fanny Danny walked out to a crowd and just started pointing at anyone and everyone "YOU ARE GETTING TEMPERED AND YOU ARE GETTING TEMPERED! EVERYONES GETTING TEMPERED!"

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"TRUE EQUALITY!"

somber storm
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Fandan vaped into the crowd

late aurora
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Tataru commits genocide so you don’t have to

subtle pasture
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That's at least part of the Tower architecture-- they don't cover what it is exactly, but that's not the exact, eh... manpower, involved.

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that said, every diamond shape in that image is an embedded person

dim sigil
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Elephant people in that art

heady shadow
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make it a fusion of coils and whatever the fuck body horror the Mhnach(?) did

subtle pasture
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Another thing, the Tower itself in Paglth'an facilitates the summoning, that purple glow that passed over the middle of the floor while the captured Amalj'aa were struggling; there doesn't seem to be a similar platform in that shot inside a greater Tower

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rather, it's elsewhere, namazuconcern

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--ofc, the floor glows, but then Lunar Ifrit drops in from the gd ceiling

dim sigil
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And it's called luanr so it's sending something to the Moon

heady shadow
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I think the pillars in that pic above with the heads might have people inside them?

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so is the rating for endwalker gonna get bumped up? xD

dim sigil
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Elephants

Screen_Shot_2021-04-13_at_11.36.20_PM.png
subtle pasture
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Arch Ultima was just the beginning namohno

sage flame
oak pike
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Yup those are elephants

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Wonder who their primal choice is

balmy mesa
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it looks like there might be multiple tribes of matanga, if the colour differences are anything to go by

sage flame
oak pike
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Probably

dim sigil
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Or Mangus sisters but given their in this HUGE place and anima being hyped up

oak pike
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Which tower was it that was heavily guarded ?

balmy mesa
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Gyr Abania, I think?

late aurora
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Their collective lack of shame manifests itself as a Death Mummy trying to escape its chains

balmy mesa
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I'm not sure about that tbh

  • Anima has two sides to her (the tied up side and the really, really angry pissed off side underneath), so I think it'll be tied to HvZ directly
  • matanga might have their own primal which hasn't been revealed yet (like along the lines of lakshmi)
oak pike
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Hmmm I wonder why gyr albania

balmy mesa
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cos it's most easily accessible to the garleans

oak pike
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!faq world map

lusty shadowBOT
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FAQ Listing

worldmap
worldpick
worldstatus
worldtype
worldvisit

Page 1 of 1
heady shadow
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Anima will likely be the 93 trial

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they'll show the 99 trial later

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just like they did with every other primal/lightwarden

balmy mesa
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I'm just looking for the original SB teaser reveal

sage flame
balmy mesa
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aha found it

oak pike
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Anything interesting in there

balmy mesa
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OK, so. the second fanfest revealed the Antanta and their primal
third revealed Kojin and their primal

sage flame
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Shemhazai?

unknown.png
oak pike
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So we can safely assume the matanga are anima fans

balmy mesa
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not necessarily
but we'll find out later
or, it might not even be tied to the beast tribes

oak pike
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True

balmy mesa
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someone wrote a list of old FF summons that haven't been used yet somewhere here

sage flame
heady shadow
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Plus we have to put into consideration that Anima could be a Terminus Beast

subtle pasture
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Oh yeah, I suppose Paglth'an has given us a "title" of sorts of the Telophoroi's beasts- Telotherium.

balmy mesa
subtle pasture
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(Literally means-- yeah)

balmy mesa
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also Supreme Beast of the End just makes a ton of sense for Lunar Bahamut haha

oak pike
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Lore fiends lol

subtle pasture
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So, Anima is designed to resemble a Telotherium (though I suppose our sample pool is only 4 atm, with Lunar Bahamut being the most redesigned Lunar),

balmy mesa
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Oblivion (Anima's ultimate) would probably be a HPS check (like with Ultima) on phase transition

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I reckon they'll do this:
Pain - tankbuster
Demi - % raidwide AoE
Dispel - vuln or debuffs (perhaps)
Oblivion - phase transition

unborn lantern
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I'm sorry but was this in the cutscenes...? I thought this is where he'll transform into his second form

unknown.png
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It was in the "Unto Dawn" trailer

subtle pasture
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It's mid fight when he casts Code Chi-X-Sigma or whatever it is, I think. Happens pretty quick

unborn lantern
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Oh...

oak pike
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Hmm, I wonder if fandaniel planned for bahamut to be killed

unborn lantern
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Nah, it was just a diversion

subtle pasture
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Fandaniel when that katana missed him: pensivewobble

oak pike
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The one thing that hurts his plan was tiamat being rewoken since hes trying to get some mercadyl dragons

unborn lantern
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Fandaniel didn't know we had a dragon too lol

oak pike
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Basing off of the final cutscene

unborn lantern
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so it wasn't his plan at all

balmy mesa
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yeah he didn't expect Tiamat to be not-depressed

unborn lantern
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Tiamat severely weakened lunar bahamut for us to kill

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So we see all these weapons

unknown.png
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we can just imaigne which zenos picked up xD

oak pike
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I think someone went frame by frame and concluded that the weapon wasn’t in the cutscene at all

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Nor in the room overview

severe brook
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i do have one prediction for how Anima could end up being the Lunar Primal for the Matanga
That perhaps the Matanga have an animistic religion and worship the Lifestream itself, with Anima being the embodiment of the lifestream in their minds.
Thus the Matanga Tower is made to conjure that entity in physical form in service to the Telophoroi, and because the Matanga don't have an actual image in mind for her she appears as a a warped monstrositiy of their own pain and suffering.

severe brook
turbid aspen
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when their god has no trunk pensivewobble pensivewobble pensivewobble

dim sigil
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Fandam says his choice is rather apt and styche a Reaper makes sense

unborn lantern
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He picked up a wooden sword

severe brook
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i mean Susano's only turtle-esque in the sense of being covered in metal armor

swift kraken
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he picked up a pool noodle

wet crown
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Fandaniel called the new weapon apt. That alone makes it look like he picked up a scythe.

severe brook
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thus he has a "shell"

unborn lantern
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He picked up a d*ldo sword to shove it up our ass

swift kraken
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ill take the pool noodle

turbid aspen
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but ffxiv player characters arent juicy

unborn lantern
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Or his... own ass?

severe brook
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well this took a turn

turbid aspen
#

that could work

swift kraken
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idk scythe seems weird considering how he picked it up

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he picked it up like a sword and not likr a scythe sticking in the group

unborn lantern
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It's a gunscythe

random anvil
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what's the Drakgengard lore on the trains

balmy mesa
#

she gave us mixed signals haha

distant sonnet
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Zantetsuken~

swift kraken
severe brook
swift kraken
#

multi track drifting

balmy mesa
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also that GIF earlier haha

severe brook
#

they aren't necessarily from any specific person, but are manifested from the multitudes replicated in Her Inflorescence

swift kraken
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i was doing the new raid with my friend and when mixed signals was casting he said "women be like" and i fucking lost it

unborn lantern
severe brook
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though i think the rubble-covered arms may have been taken from Eve

unborn lantern
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It's a hockey pad!

severe brook
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basically anything Her Inflorescence does that isn't the rings of song is a memory

unborn lantern
#

he going golfin

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with WoL

swift kraken
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the golf club with the golf bag

gaunt star
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That looks like a combined pair of judge swords

oak pike
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Watch he uses a naganta

gaunt star
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Bhunivelze’s scythe has a similar shape as well though

severe brook
#

i personally still think that it is a scythe, but that in that shot from the trailer it's tilted forward which is why the scythe blade doesn't just out past the edge of the throne

balmy mesa
#

I think a combo single blade/dual blade would be pretty cool (switch stances)

unborn lantern
#

I'm sure whatever weapon he picked up. He'll need to train on using it, so he got lots of time til 6.0

severe brook
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though a dual-bladed Scythe a la Bhunivelze could be a neat way to distinguish the Job

distant sonnet
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Look if I'm being realistic.. its probably a scythe. But I'm still putting my imaginary money on Zantetsuken.

severe brook
balmy mesa
#

yeah
if it's scythe-themed, can switch stances

unborn lantern
#

Imagine just fandaniel watching zenos train with a dummy

coarse pond
#

Imb4 it's a frying pan

balmy mesa
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I just think that it's a massive red herring by this point

oak pike
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Fandaniel doing the glow stick emote while Zenos hitting a dummy

balmy mesa
#

which glow stick emote?

oak pike
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The jumping one

distant sonnet
#

"Sorry, Lord Zenos. Only a green parse. You'll need to work harder."

swift kraken
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who else was parsing

coarse pond
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Zenos could even do grey parse and still win as long as he has this stupid knockdown aoe attack that stuns everyone for like 15 seconds

oak pike
#

Zenos enter samurai TCJ

balmy mesa
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wouldn't it be SSS in that case?

swift kraken
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i will simply beat him to death before he can cast anything

balmy mesa
#

storm, sky, sea?

swift kraken
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its very easy i did it all the time

oak pike
#

“My lord you need to hit postionals”

balmy mesa
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"if you don't shut up I'll shove this into your positional"

unborn lantern
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"Don't forget to memorize your speech for when you two faces one another"

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Zenos: SUCH DEVASTATION, THIS WA-

oak pike
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“You accidentally delayed a buff lord Zenos”

unborn lantern
dim sigil
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I like to think there's going to be a scene where Zenos eventually actually does kill him but being ascian he'll be fine probably

distant sonnet
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I mean.. not if he can drink that guy.

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The trailer says something about feasting on souls.

coarse pond
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Probably use souls to boaster his own power

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So he can have plot armor too

distant sonnet
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That has been exceptionally fatal to ascians in the past.

oak pike
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Zenos boutta suck him up 😫

swift kraken
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i like to think that its fandaniel who ends up killing zenos for some reason

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anything but another zenos boss

oak pike
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We getting another Zenos

unborn lantern
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We gonna fight zenos, as we weaken him then Fandaniel sees the opportunity and stabs Zenos in the back and uses him as a vessel for Zodiark bla bla bla

distant sonnet
#

Nahhh. Zenos as the big bad, as the Avatar of the End. Its gonna be a whole thing.

coarse pond
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Nah, it won't happen unless it's some touching moment and Zenos turns uwu towards us and turn against him

unborn lantern
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The only reason Fandaniel haven't done it yet, is Zenos is still too powerful for fandaniel

swift kraken
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i dont think its unreasonable to say that fandaniel could trick him

vapid cape
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I had a thought, with we (our Ancient past self) opposed the summoning of both zodiark and hydaelyn, why are we hydaelyns champion?

dim sigil
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Itll be a big thing then plot twist final boss is Necron

swift kraken
#

zenos is pretty high up on his own horse

swift kraken
distant sonnet
#

We're gonna defeat Zenos. Danny will pull a sneaky and almost kill us. Zenos will then merc him and attain his final form or some shit.

vapid cape
#

But our soul has constantly had the blessing of Light. She clearly knows our soul and specifies us

coarse pond
dim sigil
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We are a shard reincarnation we are the same person technically but we have also let our own lives and have our own self separate from our past life

swift kraken
#

yeah but why would our opinion on hydaelyn 100000 years ago matter

coarse pond
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Just ask why they haven't answered that question sooner

swift kraken
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we're most likely singled out because we're the source part of a convocation member and also the first warrior of light ever

distant sonnet
#

Summoning Hydaelyn then may have been a mistake.
Supporting Hydaelyn now is far better than the alternative, though.

swift kraken
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whether we wanted hydaelyn to be summoned or not isnt really relevant

distant sonnet
#

Cats outta the bag. Besides, before we really found out that we're probably Azem she already had her hooks in us.

vapid cape
#

I still bank on Hydaelyn tempering us

coarse pond
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Well, WoLs in FFXIV have tendency to disappear before major catastrophy

vapid cape
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And we were used as a wild card against zodiark

wary perch
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@vapid cape the blessing of light is tie to the soul?

swift kraken
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why would hydaelyn do that she had plenty of opportunity to temper us

oak pike
distant sonnet
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Only the once, cause Gandelf teleported them to safety. Poorly.

swift kraken
#

the wol seems fine

vapid cape
swift kraken
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and what does that really change

vapid cape
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it changes that hydaelyn is willing to basically enslave people to do her will

swift kraken
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also on that note its not really provable

vapid cape
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and that we were forced into her service

oak pike
#

Man we swap to paladin to go on holy crusades

swift kraken
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like what did she temper us for

vapid cape
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against our will

distant sonnet
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I mean.. its completelt provable. We're almost certainly gonna commune with Hydaelyn sooner rather than later

vapid cape
distant sonnet
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Crystalmom has some explaining to do.

swift kraken
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i saw it as hydaelyn giving us a nudge in the righr direction by giving us the blessing of light

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ysayle also had the blessing of light though and she didnt seem like she was tempered

wary perch
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We are tempered nor not doesn't really matter though

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Given we still do what is right from preventing catastrophe

distant sonnet
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How does our not having free will or not to act against Hydaelyn not matter?

vapid cape
distant sonnet
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Considering they went out of their way to establish Hydaelyn is sus

wary perch
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Why does it matter?

swift kraken
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because literally no one wants you to act against hydaelyn in the story really

dim sigil
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Things kind of changed though now that we know that temper and can be different depending on how what your relationship and your view of the Primal is

swift kraken
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like why would i go and hate her when every person in the story tells me otherwise

wary perch
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Will it change what wol have done?

swift kraken
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us stopping zodiark and the ascians was a goal given to us more by the scions

coarse pond
swift kraken
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hydaelyn just gave us the means to do so and so nudges in that direction

vapid cape
coarse pond
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Even WoL of light minion mentions that

distant sonnet
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No. Will it change what they will do? What if part of the twist is that we have to remove her for some reason?

coarse pond
swift kraken
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thats a recent development

gaunt star
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What happened to the hydaelyn stan we used to have

distant sonnet
#

Venat is a name with a hell of a lot of baggage, and they picked that as the heart of Hydaelyn for a reason.

unreal gale
#

Destroy both Hydaelyn and Zodiark. Fulfill the OG Scion mission of defeating all primals to a tee. scree2

wary perch
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@coarse pond wol get transported because of the alphinoud grandfather spell

vapid cape
swift kraken
#

i dont exactly understand why she would ever need to temper us.

vapid cape
swift kraken
#

yeah but its aggressively pointless to do to control us because we pretty much just naturally went and did the job she wanted us to do

wary perch
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Asian are still the bad person for causing genocide

distant sonnet
#

Why do primals ever temper people? But if we work off current knowledge, if we're Azem and she tempers us, thats a potentially powerful tool in her arsenal.

wary perch
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They may have their reason but it doesn't change what they did

vapid cape
coarse pond
swift kraken
coarse pond
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"vanished when we needed them the most"

wary perch
#

@coarse pond who said wol vanished before final days?

swift kraken
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am i tempering you by telling you to get me a glass of water 🤨

vapid cape
#

She also has no reason not to. Azem had a reputation for being a problem solver. Why WOULDNT you temper them to keep peace i this new world?

vapid cape
distant sonnet
#

Even if we'd probably do as she asked, isn't it better if thats an absolute certainty?

swift kraken
#

because tempering is a method zodiark uses to keep the ascians enslaved and hydaelyn maybe would t want to do that?

vapid cape
#

Sure you havnt been tempered by leviathan because youre drowning pretty hard

vapid cape
wary perch
#

Not saying hydaelyn doesn't tempered people but there is no evidence so far that said azem has been tempered

swift kraken
#

you cant prove it either way and i said as much. youd have to comb for dialogue to see what may be construed as tempered or something

#

and even then thats not how it works

wary perch
#

And tempered doesn't bring over from last life anyway

vapid cape
#

And you cant prove otherwise either

wary perch
#

Otherwise Gaia would have been tempered

swift kraken
#

you cant just assume we're tempered either and even then, again, it doesnt really matter to the story at large

vapid cape
#

point is take yshtolas advice and keep an open mind

unreal gale
#

I don't know the origin of this debate, but 5.5 also hinted that something might be holding Hydaelyn back. Y'shtola wasn't certain whether her motivations were questionable or whether her messages were being dampened. Could go in any directiion.

distant sonnet
vapid cape
wary perch
#

The conversation does sound like hydaelyn tempered azem

distant sonnet
#

If the blessing of light is, in fact, her tempering.

wary perch
#

Does blessings of light attached to the soul?

distant sonnet
#

Presumably yes?

swift kraken
distant sonnet
tropic frigate
#

wonder if hydaelyn hasnt interrupted because we've been doin it the whole time

wary perch
#

@distant sonnet why presume yes when there is no evidence?

swift kraken
#

and so far hydaelyn hasnt asked us to do anything outrageous either

#

itd have to be some twist in the last expac

distant sonnet
vapid cape
#

no more evil than zodiark

distant sonnet
#

Multiple characters such as Midgardsormr recognize that its a thing and we have it, but its not like, a physical thing. Therefore..

swift kraken
#

if the blessing of light is a tempering midgardsormr sealing it away didnt do anythinf

#

we still were the same person

wary perch
#

@distant sonnet Maybe we got the blessing at some of point of life?

rain onyx
#

we got the blessing in like the first few quests of the story

swift kraken
rain onyx
#

either then or the opening cinematic after you make your character.

vapid cape
distant sonnet
vapid cape
#

Im just convinced adlo is just selectively reading what everyone says and runs with that

distant sonnet
wary perch
#

@distant sonnet it's just same as people praying to their God in time of crisis. Doesn't make everyone doing that a tempered though

swift kraken
#

guys you dont remember how emet selch acted 🥴 he was constantly on about zodiark and how he wants to bring him back tobring his people back etc. he was sus towards zodiark, sure, but he definitely wasnt in control of his own person as much as you believe

#

i find it funny that people use emet as an example because that mf was clearly enslaved but was posh about it

vapid cape
#

I already explained why I used emet but go off

#

im done repeating myself

distant sonnet
swift kraken
wary perch
#

Because other ascian action stray from resurrecting zordiak?

vapid cape
wary perch
#

Elidibus is a mediator in the group

swift kraken
distant sonnet
swift kraken
#

in relevance to the wol; the reason you cant prove that hes tempered is because hes pretty much just doing the right thing that everyone else wants him to do anyway and with the ascians you can tell theyre tempered because theyre doing the not right thing

distant sonnet
#

But its not proof we claim to have. This is speculation.

wary perch
#

@distant sonnet yes that's what's mentioned in game

distant sonnet
#

If it doesn't make sense, explain why it doesn't make sense. Find proof its wrong. Or just let it pass. Weird arguments that just amount to "Cant prove it" doesn't really do much.

wary perch
#

Wol is probably tempered. This is indirectly mentioned in game

swift kraken
#

i said it several times and you told me i was bad faith arguing for some reason

wary perch
#

Back when you encounter ifrit and tsukoyomi too mentioned about the accursed light in wol

swift kraken
#

accursed light is the blessing of light

#

no proof so far that thats tempering

wary perch
#

It is mentioned in ifrit quest that wol are taken

misty yoke
#

But if they have autonomy and they do it “in service of Zodiark” why does fandaniel do whatever he likes then. He pretty much says he “doesnt care about restoring the old world” and it seems he isnt tempered anywhere near as much as the other ascians.

swift kraken
#

are you talking about that 1.0 dialogue

#

im pretty sure thats not canon anymore because the echo prevents tempering now

wary perch
#

2.0

#

When wol get captured

swift kraken
#

maybe its before they figured the story out but ifrit not being able to temper us is because of the echo in that instance

wary perch
#

Doesn't change the fact that what's being said

#

Unless they retcon it

distant sonnet
misty yoke
#

So we’re just gonna have to wait till potentially may then for an answer

distant sonnet
#

Without the unsundered calling the shots and keeping them in line, hes free to fuck about.

misty yoke
#

That much is clear considering the amount of towers we’re seeing

swift kraken
#

well he said he wanted the final days back so hes already going against zodiark

#

considering zodiark was made to stop the final days

next pagoda
#

idk maybe fandaniel is tempered by some third party

swift kraken
#

maybe hes just lying! who knows

#

or he just wasnt tempered at all which is reasonable now considering hes some goon implanted with memories

next pagoda
#

imo he's either tempered by whatever caused the final days, or directly caused it himself

dim sigil
#

His actions still bring out about zodiark probably so could still work being tempered

distant sonnet
#

Okay but what about this galaxy brain plan:
Step 1: tell the warrior of light you're doing a final days. Wear the worlds most punchable face and slap them with a primal for maximum effect.
Step 2: later, let slip in the warrior of light's presence that Lord Zodiark could fix this.. if only he was free. Watch as that dummy gets stuff done, as we do.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

swift kraken
#

its weird considering that he could just die by killing himself but chooses to do that

kindred rampart
#

"Ah yes! It's. . . PERFECT for you!"

misty yoke
next pagoda
#

maybe he's just scared of dying alone

#

honestly tho, it would actually be both cool and sad if theres a plottwist where fandaniel is just a child who is afraid of dying and being forgotten

#

so he either wants to kill everyone so they die with him, or he is defated and dies alone but is remembered for the suffering he caused

kindred rampart
#

or the last time he was brought back up as an Ascian was the last straw.
"Can I just die and stay dead?! THAT'S IT! I'M TAKING EVERYONE WITH ME!"

rain onyx
#

tbh I like Fandaniel just twirling his imaginary moustache going "fuck everything. all of the source can just go die now since there's no one stopping me"

somber storm
#

Fanny the one Ascian who dies first and gets revived lasts

next pagoda
#

man didnt get revved by the healer because he wasnt doing mechanics properly

#

so he got mad and decided to kill everyone in revenge

distant sonnet
#

Heh. Turns out he was the most murdered ascian because hes just such an irritating jackass.

rain onyx
#

I don't think he needs a "sad" reason to do what he's doing. Maybe he's just fed up with the whole Zodiark/Hydaelyn shtick

next pagoda
#

ye i highly doubt it as well but it would be a welcome suprise

distant sonnet
#

Other ascians can roll in and talk shit with some gravitas. Him.. you just wanna kill him.

misty yoke
#

I will bet fandaniel was the real vocalist behind endwalker teaser

kindred rampart
next pagoda
#

what if the real vocalist was the friends we made along the way

misty yoke
#

What great friends

next pagoda
#

that being said if we see yotsuyu become host to an ascian im gonna lose it

misty yoke
#

Isnt her body kinda messed up

next pagoda
#

is it? i dont remember

misty yoke
#

Well she became host to a primal

dim sigil
#

Asahi got sliced up im sure shes fine

misty yoke
#

Then ganged up on by 8 wols

next pagoda
#

ye but she was still alive by the end of it

wet crown
#

1 WoL and 7 adventurers

next pagoda
#

didnt she die because she used up the remainder of her power to kill her brother

misty yoke
#

I interpreted it as her succumbing to the wounds in the fight tbh

rough kestrel
#

Werylt was the dark horse of this patch, coming out of no where as the strongest content, competing with MSQ and a Nier Raid. Insane.

next pagoda
#

idk she says "I saved the last of my strength just...for you" which i always thought meant that if she didnt use it on him she could have survived

#

i mean she did have primal powers maybe she could have used it to heal herself or smth

rough kestrel
#

I never in a million years expected the Werlyt stuff to be the thing I'm left thinking about after I finished

next pagoda
#

the nier raid was amazing

#

it was the first thing i did as soon as the patch came out and i loved it

rough kestrel
#

It was but Werlyt finale was 10/10

#

Nier is just sort of, well its Nier/Drakengard fanservice and thats what I expected.

next pagoda
#

idk the nier raids have a special place in my heart because it was the main reason i started this game again

rough kestrel
#

The raid it's self pales next to the fact Kaine's song is now an orchestrion.

next pagoda
#

true

wet crown
#

I always went for the raid immidiately

#

Damn, just so good in all aspects

misty yoke
#

Day 1 raids hit different

next pagoda
#

but even tho the raids were basically fanservice they added to the lore of the series

#

such as how red girl is basically an intoner

wet crown
#

Not an intoner.

somber storm
#

Watcher

dim sigil
#

Plot quite weak tho coming from 14 side

wet crown
#

Connected to the watchers, maybe.

#

I am once again questioning wether the seeds are supposed to be flower seeds.

#

The flower theme throughout Drakennier is very strong.

somber storm
#

Well there be a lot of flower motifs

distant sonnet
#

Hotish take: The nier raid, from a story perspective, is hot garbage.

#

Cool fights and great music tho.

wet crown
#

Oh gee, didn't see that opinion, yet.

next pagoda
#

nah she has design similarites to manah, and by extension one

rough kestrel
#

As a Nier fan, my final opinion on the raid story will hinge on how much more there is left to uncover, but currently I have way too many fucking questions to be satisfied.

dim sigil
#

If your not Nier fan theres little to like here

#

Music and bosses were great tho

distant sonnet
#

Yeah but its not a particularly good story even as the self contained thing that it is. And this as a huge nier fan.

#

But yes.. more to come. We'll see what they wrap up.

rough kestrel
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfl1_EHBO_s
In other news, getting this Orchestrion was life changing, one of the best themes in the game.

YouTube
SEPIA
FFXIV OST/ターンクリフ Terncliff Theme ”愛を求める者たち/And Love You Shall Find”...

Copyright (C) 2010 - 2020 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. All Rights Reserved.
記載されている会社名・製品名・システム名などは、各社の商標、または登録商標です。

FFXIV OST/”愛を求める者たち”ターンクリフ Terncliff Theme【FF14/FFXIV】テーマ曲/BGM ONLY/Patch5.3/Final Fantasy/original sound track/Background music/オリジナルサウンドトラック/音楽/楽曲/ウェルリト戦役/Sapphire Weapon/サファイアウェポン/ファイナルファンタジー14/XIV/Final Fantasy xiv/14/PlayStation4/プ...

▶ Play video
#

Putting it on in a cozy house is the biggest of moods.

next pagoda
#

the raids were definately done to hype up the nier remaster and new game

#

by introducing more people to the franchise

wet crown
#

I actually wonder what theme YT had in mind for this raid story cuz I can only think of helplessness.

distant sonnet
#

The theme was "Paycheck". =p

next pagoda
#

isnt that one of the main themes in the nier games?

wet crown
#

You're just being petty.

distant sonnet
#

Am I? Because there is very little depth to it.

wet crown
rough kestrel
#

The prevailing thought I have is ultimately the machines repeated the same shit they did in Automata, even the elevator fight was the same. But this has been an actual thing the games address where ultimately the machines will always repeat the same course of events sooner or later.

distant sonnet
#

Maybe I need time to pass and to look with clear eyes.. but we'll have to see.

subtle pasture
#

Huh, did the Rueful Civilian have the "what is this place"/"who are you" dialogue before the end of Sorrow of Werlyt?

next pagoda
#

i've only played drakengard 3, nier and nier automata but all three have a heavy emphasis on how helpless the protagonist's situation is

rough kestrel
#

As much as they try to evolve, they still fall into the same routines, being machines

next pagoda
#

the one thing i didnt get was how red girl was functioning

untold gull
#

Werlyt having the best story content this patch was really something

next pagoda
#

didnt she ||fragment by the end of route c and started fighting herself||

dim sigil
#

*2nd

rough kestrel
#

@untold gull I liked that story but I didn't expect it to be the best story content of the patch.

distant sonnet
next pagoda
#

thats possible

dim sigil
#

What is this seed thing that's here all the sudden

distant sonnet
#

The seed copied the data from the arc, and everything was generated by that.

subtle pasture
#

tbf, this MSQ is only part 1, but of the completed stories, Werlyt does take the cake- if it's only competition is then NieR orz

rough kestrel
#

The problem is we dont know where the seed is from, because it wasn't in Automata, and the Ark was shot into space as the tower collapsed.

next pagoda
subtle pasture
#

suppose there's also Charlemend's custom delivery story but that's a few weeks out

next pagoda
#

but the seed could also have created red girl from the very beginning

distant sonnet
rough kestrel
#

@subtle pasture Are you suggesting custom deliveries being top tier story? heyayaya

subtle pasture
#

Custom Deliveries can have good stories, yes

#

I really enjoyed Zhloe's back when I was working through it

rough kestrel
#

The only one I recall is the dragon one because we try to talk that wife into getting back with her dragon husband.

untold gull
#

Honestly, nier/drakengard stuff aside, if there's anything to take away from that raid, it's that it they could sort of hint to it in regards to world travel in the future. We still don't know what the end of the weekly is gonna be or what konogg has been up to but it's something at least if they decide to run with that

distant sonnet
#

If this was post ending C you'd think 9S would have more to say about.. anything.

rough kestrel
#

I'm never going to be able to erase the realization WoL tries to convince a woman to fuck a dragon.

next pagoda
subtle pasture
#

That was Firmament story not custom deliveries- which is Ehll Tou's arc,

rough kestrel
#

Oh right

dim sigil
#

Why are 9s, 2b and white drawf good guys if they all came from this seed thing

wet crown
next pagoda
swift kraken
#

there is. its a musical

distant sonnet
wet crown
#

A good and bad version of it

rough kestrel
#

I believe there is something in a book

swift kraken
#

err not a musical its like a play or something

rough kestrel
#

The musicals are prequels.

next pagoda
subtle pasture
#

Oh, anyhow, Rueful Civilian's dialogue in Terncliff is all updated, yeah?

swift kraken
#

nah there was a play for what happens after ending E

distant sonnet
#

Nier had a book only ending E. Automata had a stageplay post in game E

rough kestrel
#

I don't know if I want to know, goddamn it Yoko why are you like this

wet crown
#

the bad version is that 9S doesn't wake up and 2B suffers a heavy heartbreak and decides to never move from her spot until she eventually fades

rough kestrel
#

Ending E was perfect

subtle pasture
#

He says the Sorrow was a decade ago, and that the population is mostly native Hyur and then Au Ra who ended up in the area

swift kraken
#

it involves ||2b getting 9s' memories out of the tower||

wet crown
#

the good version is that they reunite and stuff, typical happy ending

swift kraken
distant sonnet
#

Now.. what makes even more sense is that the Nier raid leads into Drakengard 3.

swift kraken
#

the actual story was played in the play, just the scripts they handed out were all fucked

rough kestrel
#

The thing that confused me was 2B handing memories over about our time together, and I'm like "Bitch you showed up halfway into the story from... where even? and we exchanged 2 words, I dont get this, even for you this is weird"

next pagoda
#

was the whole room of dead 2Bs ever explained?

subtle pasture
# 
Avilina: I'll never forget you, Milisandia.```
distant sonnet
wet crown
next pagoda
#

ye but why tho

subtle pasture
#

--I feel bad for ever thinking Avilina was a plant from Valens

wet crown
#

Because 2B and 9S worked against the puppets

next oriole
rough kestrel
#

I believe it was probably 2P, or all the 2Bs that tried to solo Copied Factory and failed

next pagoda
#

im guessing its relating to the ||2b fight in the tower||

distant sonnet
next pagoda
#

maybe they were early copies of 2P

#

that might make sense considering we already know the white yorha can change their colours

wet crown
#

Look, the YoRHa androids are prgrammed with a deep affection for humans. Just being near ones should equal to pure fireworks of joy and zen.

rough kestrel
#

The data logs also provide alot of strange context that I dont get, memories from Eve, were the survey studies from 9S?

next oriole
next pagoda
distant sonnet
wet crown
#

Irrelevant.

next pagoda
#

wouldnt it basically be like meeting ur god?

wet crown
#

It's part of their core programming. It's how they are, think and act.

subtle pasture
#

After the Puppet Types reveal in the beginning of Puppets' Bunker, I think I assumed those dead 2B's were actually disguised 2P's 9S had killed-- guess not when they never use the "Type P's show up in black clothing" moment ever again

rough kestrel
#

You know, thats an interesting point, there are no humans in Automata, this is essentially their first time encountering humanity.

distant sonnet
#

Uhhuh. Except how deep does that actually go, considering.. well. Their actual purpose.

carmine basin
wet crown
#

What part of core programming, do you not want to understand.

next pagoda
distant sonnet
#

What part of "I'm fairly sure you're making all this up" is hard to grasp? =p

#

Its a fine interpretation but I don't fully buy it.

next pagoda
#

it might be different after ||they got rebuilt and learnt the truth||

subtle pasture
#

--Also, neat detail. When you go through the Bunker before the Seed recreates the Tower, the screen in the command room shows 2 Type P's are still active- those that become Knave of Hearts and Hansel & Gretel

wet crown
#

It's very much straight out of Automata

wet crown
next oriole
#

i still don't get hansel and gretel's cleave mechanic

next pagoda
subtle pasture
#

one Type-P becomes both Hansel and Gretel, actually, but there was prob also a screen entry for 2P that I missed,

next pagoda
#

the thing i loved was all the references to the automata story

#

such as the way 2b and 9s were lying at the end

distant sonnet
#

Except we learn that none of their core programming is what they think it is, so I consider it flimsy at best. I think we were meant to just fanboy imprint onto 2B and fill in how meaningful we were to her and not think about it too hard. But eh

dim sigil
#

Why was there a darkside heartless in the tower

next pagoda
#

wait a second i had the biggest crack head idea

swift kraken
#

the site should have a few of them

next pagoda
#

what if this raid happened whiile 2b and 9s were unconscious at the end of E

distant sonnet
untold gull
#

Cleave mechanic? Axes glowing inside = go to the opposite side. Axes outside, go in between them. They have arrows between them? They gonna do the opposite

next pagoda
#

considering they were in the exact same position at the end of the raid

subtle pasture
#

I can't replay it to check bc NG+ isn't available yet, I only noticed when I was watching a friend run through the unlock orz

next pagoda
wet crown
#

the stage play is about A2's past, right?

next pagoda
#

this is how they were lying in the after raid cutscene

SPOILER_maxresdefault.png
subtle pasture
#

Weird to see they're even considered active when both are digital entities-- guess the Ego Collective doesn't particularly care for that nitpicking

distant sonnet
#

The Yorha Girls one was, yes.

swift kraken
#

theres a few

wet crown
#

Yeah, the 2nd one was about why male androids are only allowed as scanner-types or whatever.

next pagoda
#

there was also the one with no 2 and no 9

subtle pasture
#

From the top of my head all I can recall is the Type-P who becomes Hansel and Gretel is speaking of being alone, which explains why they metamorphosis into 2 entities

wet crown
#

something, something early drafts for YoRHa

swift kraken
#

man the old one i used for it went down. sadge

next oriole
distant sonnet
swift kraken
#

i still dont know what was going on in the nier raids

subtle pasture
#

Bc Seed,

swift kraken
#

i just punched a hot lady to death and that seems par for the course

untold gull
wet crown
swift kraken
#

why

next pagoda
#

what world are u on

subtle pasture
#

I guess the end of the trash pack before Red Girl and the design of Her Inflorescence is suppose to say the Puppet Types were just more Machine Network terminals all along,

distant sonnet
#

Long story short.. a Seed from drakengard got to the first somehow. After absorbing the data from the arc somehow. It then replcated that data and made the raids as we see them.

rough kestrel
#

Will we ever return here?

pillar.png
swift kraken
#

chaos but i dont talk in alliance raids

subtle pasture
#

Kinda like how the Red Girls appeared after Adam and Eve both bit it

swift kraken
#

i just think it very strongly

wet crown
next pagoda
#

ah ok, im on zordiark

wet crown
#

they were present all along throughout

swift kraken
next pagoda
#

i really wish we could customise summons so they look like bosses

subtle pasture
#

"Appeared" is a loose word in in that context, yeah. "Made themselves known"

distant sonnet
rough kestrel
#

You know, I'm shocked nothing about Adam & Eve showed up in the entire raid

heady shadow
#

well the seeds were something that could have fallen into the world with the queen beast.

I dont remember how they were made at all lol

swift kraken
#

thats fair

wet crown
#

They were also part of A2's backstory

next oriole
rough kestrel
#

@distant sonnet Isn't that what the MSQ towers do? gthink

next pagoda
wet crown
#

urgh...their names are Terminal Alpha and Terminal Beta

swift kraken
#

wait doesnt that mean that 9s and 2bs world got fucked by that thing

wet crown
#

No, the seed doesn't exist at the time of Automata

distant sonnet
untold gull
#

Well, it almost did afaik. All the way back in drakengard

distant sonnet
#

And it wasn't fucked by a seed, but.. that gets down a rabbithole.

swift kraken
#

yeah i know that part but i guess this means that ending E is a sad ending anyway

subtle pasture
#

It's how the last, eh... "unique" Type-P is the one to become Hansel and Gretel, and then we have a barrage of 2P's who afterwards just turn into/reveal themselves to be Red Girls

wet crown
#

Well, it wasn't present during the events of automata

#

or it was never seen, you could say

swift kraken
#

obv it wasnt but at some point it probably fucked it if it happened in this raid

wet crown
#

sure, it's still a big part of it but never there

rough kestrel
#

I know people like to write it off as fanservice and money grabbing, but this raid IS the continuation of Automata and there is going to be a throughline embedded somewhere, but Yoko likes to over complicate this shit.

distant sonnet
#

Yeah. The seed doesn't show up in Automata, but its effects are present in that like.. the apocalypse happened once upon a time.

carmine basin
#

The seed never entered the automata world as far as we know, and WCS was gone with humanity's death

heady shadow
#

well

rough kestrel
#

So we're just going to have to wait for Konogg and/or any updates in 55 to see if anything is added

swift kraken
#

but how did it get the tower data then

next pagoda
heady shadow
#

WCS was gone while the gestalt was going which i guess some were completed till like nier did his shit

swift kraken
wet crown
distant sonnet
distant sonnet
untold gull
#

Wasn't there supposed to be a nier sequel to mobile but cancelled?

subtle pasture
#

It's seemingly a continuation of Automata, but the nature of the Seed of Destruction is what makes that a "yeah, sure, maybe, maybe not ChenShrug "

swift kraken
#

ive been like a nier raid defender but i would rather like to understand a raid without playing 4 games

distant sonnet
#

A couple degrees of seperation, but.. things going nuts and having red eyes is a running thing in Taro's stuff.

next pagoda
#

and if we consider that the red girls have a direct cnnection to the logic virus its fair to assume that the red girls have always been part of the seed

#

maybe the seed is what gave machines sentience in the first place

distant sonnet
dim sigil
subtle pasture
#

well have to consider YoRHa aren't regular androids to start with, either

rough kestrel
#

@distant sonnet the only reason is because Yoko and them have talked alot about the raid and its story, enough to make you think "There is something to this but it may not be super obvious", I don't know that they're the sort to go "Yeah we went crazy and wrote this whole story' and for the story to be... nothing, y'know? We havent encountered this with Automata or Replicant.

next pagoda
#

for example if we accept the seed can store and project data like the tower

distant sonnet
heady shadow
#

the seed of destruction is just a coffin you put dead people in and they come out as monsters.
theres nothing with them about the logic virus.

since last i checked pretty sure the logic virus is just a offshoot of Red eye disease which comes from magic shit from the Intoner bloodline which is Black flower which is somehow connected to watchers.

swift kraken
#

i thought it was weird because theres a strong case to be made that it would go wild in the last raid and this is kind of just whatever

rough kestrel
#

That's fair

next pagoda
#

maybe it created the red girls from the consciousness of the watchers/intoners

distant sonnet
heady shadow
#

Intoners were dead (minus One's brother i guess) 99 years before drakngard 1

swift kraken
#

unironically i wouldve liked it more if we just isekaid into nier world

rough kestrel
#

I forget if we're ever told at which point the virus goes from biological to digital.

next pagoda
heady shadow
#

yeah Brother One

distant sonnet
wet crown
#

well, the replicant remake will have new info on that

rough kestrel
#

And now Replicant is going to have Automata shit in it and no one knows how in the fuck that could be a thing

heady shadow
#

I dont remember much of the Seed side of drakngard because thats a different ending altogether

distant sonnet
#

It'll be a thing because shrug.

#

And it'll be forgiven because Yoko Taro.

wet crown
#

it'll be a thing to better tie them together

next pagoda
distant sonnet
#

Hopefully.

next pagoda
#

rather than it being an actual disease

rough kestrel
#

Where's my boy Caim

heady shadow
#

dead

rough kestrel
#

Justice for Caim, goddammit. The hero final fantasy needs.

heady shadow
#

speaking ofwhere the fuck his dragon go. its somewhere in the nier world lol

distant sonnet
next pagoda
heady shadow
#

one of the records in gestalt/repliucant says ||it wa staken||

rough kestrel
#

@heady shadow She broke down into the salt stuff I think

next pagoda
heady shadow
#

No, they got her body thats how the whole thing with ||Emil and his sister worked out||

wet crown
rough kestrel
#

||"Scientists took samples from The Dragon's body, which would eventually be used to create the weapons known as No. 6 and No. 7 as well as the basis for Project Gestalt"||

heady shadow
#

only thing that turned into salt was the Queen Beast

next pagoda
heady shadow
#

then they got the main WCS shit contained ||because of the Red Eye Beast then they decided to nuke japan for whatever reason....||

#

oh btw Watcher shit doesnt burn

distant sonnet
# next pagoda i played it ages ago so i forgot a lot of the details

Nier Replicant spoilers then, since it comes out soon: ||Though I'll admit I'm a little fuzzy because its been a hot minute too. People had their minds/souls/whatever encoded into computer data and extracted or some shit. Presumably it could have gone from physical brain malady to computerized malady then too, because magic flower bullshit.||

wet crown
#

to contain the catastrophe
but they launched the fucking WCS into the air and just helped spread it

heady shadow
#

The Wiki actually has the whole timeline

distant sonnet
#

Like that one zombie movie. Heh.

heady shadow
#

for that shit goijng on

next pagoda
#

it could have just been magic flower bullshit from the very beginning

distant sonnet
rough kestrel
#

||The Great Disaster: Between 856 - 865, a giant earthquake occurs on the Iberian Peninsula. At the same time, a huge metropolis appears within one night, while a lot of strange things appear around the world. Casualties aside, this incident shook the very balance of the world. The dragons, Flower and the watchers are introduced into the world.||

Is this a DR3 thing? I don't fully remember really if this is in DR1.

heady shadow
#

thats before D1

distant sonnet
rough kestrel
#

So its D3

heady shadow
#

well no thats before D3

wet crown
#

It was never shown in the game but the city is in DG3

heady shadow
#

i just forget how many years

distant sonnet
#

Well yeah. But that backstory appeared as of Dr3. Heh

heady shadow
#

Utahime 5 manga also has some lore there too

carmine basin
#

The logic virus seems to be created by the androids as a way to keep the truth about project YoRHa a secret, since 9S contracts it when he gets too close to the truth, and 2B had it planned inside her in case 9S tries to hack her

wet crown
#

there is this very odd theory that the old world is actually the future of automata
I think the place where Accord currently is? the night's kingdom? or something

subtle pasture
#

Mmmmm, can't get over how Valens "perfecting" the Synthetic Auracite System was by ||pre-melding a living subject to the core before activation||

#

like, it makes sense, but also just, cryy

heady shadow
#

no the Old world is just the 2006 tokyo shit.

carmine basin
# 

By installing a logic virus in her memory storage, she created a surefire way to effectively attack him if he were to hack her. However, 2B could also be affected by said logic virus, so he hadn't expected her to have gone this far.```
<https://theark.wiki/w/Memory_Cage>
vital brook
#

Now, whose's idea was it to include a sudden jumpscare?

maxresdefault.png
next pagoda
#

that terrified me

distant sonnet
subtle pasture
#

||Want to avoid killing your pilot anytime the thing is turned on? Add a burner pilot into the core!||

next pagoda
#

btw can someone explain this || The Shi ni Itaru Aka manga elaborates on the condition and reveals that an Intoner is primarily responsible for spreading the disease. || its referring to the red eyes disease

wet crown
somber storm
#

Yoko Taro

heady shadow
wet crown
#

I think it's safe to assume that you should kill every small girl in Yoko Taro games.

carmine basin
# 
No.9: That's why I decided to rewrite his plan.
No.9: I rigged the thirteenth base to have a back door that'll open at a certain time.
No.9: The base'll be destroyed by an attack from machine lifeforms, at which point only the server on the moon will be left with transmission capabilities.
(No.9 slowly turns back, his tone sounding like he's just giving a speech.)
No.9: And so, I'll create a "god" on the face of the moon for us androids.
No.9: I've already sent a program to the server there to carry out this plan.
No.9: It even contains the blueprints for all our YoRHa designs.
No.9: Through this, the automated production of YoRHa units will give birth to our god ...
No.9: And then ... us YoRHa units will truly have a god worth dying for ...```
<https://mintychu.dreamwidth.org/1371.html#cutid1>
wet crown
#

They all spell horrible trouble.

heady shadow
next oriole
next pagoda
#

but isnt ||(brother)one dead by the time red eyes disease is a thing?||

next pagoda
wet crown
#

yupp

#

She is a material provider for the resistance.

next pagoda
#

ye thats it

rough kestrel
#

Accord is mentioned in the raid too, well the datalog has one of her fliers

wet crown
#

I am, super suprised we didn't hear of her in our raid story.

heady shadow
wet crown
#

I even expected her to pop up

heady shadow
#

She's busy in drakngard world though xD

#

with her uh... funny timeline drawings

rough kestrel
carmine basin
wet crown
#

Ahh well...I meant a bit more directly.

rough kestrel
#

Right but I just mean "Well someone designing this shit did think of her"

next pagoda
heady shadow
#

supposedly.

and yeah red eye wasnt a thing in D3

wet crown
#

you mean the canon link between DG3 and DG1?

#

it's basically Branch E, if you want to think about it

next pagoda
#

also why would one ||be trying to kill his descendants ||

#

isnt an intoners ||ultimate goal to destroy the world||

wet crown
#

Brother One is not an intoner

heady shadow
#

honestly the manga has him explaining why hes doing it

next pagoda
#

ok ig i should just stop asking questions and actually read it then

#

should i read the manga before or after i play drakengard 1

pastel coyote
#

Don't play

next pagoda
#

idk i wanna play the games in order

wet crown
#

play? you mean, suffer through DG1

heady shadow
#

well.... it probably doesnt matter much?

next pagoda
#

so drakengard 3, then dg1 and then replicant

wet crown
#

it's very outdated

next pagoda
#

hmm ok

heady shadow
#

i guess you could but just keep in mind the manga stuff is 'newer' and whatnot.

#

you could read Utahime 5 to get more Intoner Backstory , i think that even shows why some were more insane then others too

distant sonnet
#

If you look on youtube, someone strung together a Drakengard the Movie

#

Thats the only almost tolerable way to experience that games story.

next pagoda
heady shadow
#

no because they are younger in that manga

next pagoda
#

ah ok, I've only played Two's rn

heady shadow
#

the DLC's i recall mostly take place during D3. Utahime 5 is a few years before it

next pagoda
#

Okie dokie

#

damn theres so much different material for the drakengard/nier lore that its hard to keep up

carmine basin
next pagoda
#

but i really cant wait to hear lucina swearing at a magic book again

heady shadow
#

yeah im not too sure its been a hot moment since i read it myself.
lucina? Oh you mean the VA.
i gotcha

next pagoda
#

ye lucina from Fire emblem and kaine share the same VA

wet crown
#

Laura Bailey?

next pagoda
#

same thing with edelgard and zero i think

wet crown
#

Tara Platt

next pagoda
next pagoda
heady shadow
#

well anyway, the yokoverse stuff hurts my brain sometimes and hopefully you have fun catching up to a lot of it.

#

Im gonna sleep because its 230am heh

wet crown
#

it's sadly really scattered

#

if everything was at least in the games

#

but so much important and canon stuff is outside of them

carmine basin
#

And even then reading all the materials still doesn't explain some stuff

wet crown
#

you have to reflect a lot, yes

#

but it's a joy figuring everything out

next pagoda
#

ye even with the little ik its still fun trying to piece everything together

heady shadow
#

honestly though the themes are mostly the more important part of it i think

carmine basin
#

Automata side materials explains what happens before the game and what set it up, while Nier side materials explains what happens after the game iirc

wet crown
#

penis alien invasion 10/10

next pagoda
#

great patch 5.5 spoilers btw, but jokes aside the yoko taro games are probably some of my favourite games so thx for the talk guys

half phoenix
#

Yet we have next to no ingame explanation for the raid stories

#

So anyone who hasn’t played Drakengard or Nier has no idea what the hell was going on.

wet crown
#

Yes, you do. And I'm tired of hearing it.

half phoenix
#

No we don’t.

wet crown
#

A seed came to the first, made android and machine copies and wants to destroy everything.

#

Stop pretending you don't get that.

half phoenix
#

And what the hell is a seed?

wet crown
#

A seed of destruction wants to destroy.

half phoenix
#

And if it only recently started making those copies how does the entire copied factory exist, which is canonically still around, along with the machine life forms after we beat Paradigm’s Breach and the tower disappears,

wet crown
#

because the factory was made by the copies, not by the seed itself

half phoenix
#

But it only started this recently, and the factory was in disrepair for the most part, the vast majority covered in rust.

wet crown
#
  1. Your understanding of "recently" doesn't match
  2. The machines are busy bees
half phoenix
#

Meaning it’d have to have existed for decades.

#

Then how long ago was “recently”?

faint dagger
#

Be fair. The game never describes what a Seed of Destruction is

half phoenix
#

Because typically it’s not used for spans of years unless used in the phrase “in recent years”

faint dagger
#

All FF players know is 'ball evil because ball has bad vibes'

half phoenix
#

Also that

wet crown
#

and there is nothing wrong with that

half phoenix
#

Yes there is

somber storm
#

Eat ball

faint dagger
#

there is, because how then do you know what the ball is capable of, or has already done, or aims to do

wet crown
#

that's shown in the third raid?

ivory wolf
#

Not very clearly.

faint dagger
#

ball could just be doing wtaf it wants. still also doesn't describe what the ball is

#

for all anyone knows, the ball could be irrelevant to the plot and we're still talking about machines

half phoenix
#

There’s no coherent story telling. If you HAVE to use different story/medium to get relevant information besides general learned knowledge, it’s a failed story.

faint dagger
#

Hell, for all FF players are told the ball could just be a sin eater and that's all that needs knowing

wet crown
#

Who in their right mind would assume it's a sin eater? Because it's white?

gaunt star
#

Don't they literally say that the Seed was being used to reshape the world

faint dagger
#

Why would they assume otherwise?

gaunt star
#

During the final raid, they literally state what its doing

faint dagger
#

What else are they given?

next pagoda
#

because theres no reference to it being one?

wet crown
#

it doesn't move, it doesn't talk, it doesn't seek out aether, it doesn't even look like a sin eater

faint dagger
#

No reference to it being anything else either

half phoenix
#

Where are we told this besides “we need to stop it taking over the world” at the literal very end

next pagoda
#

and that would make annog a sin eater as well which wouldnt make sense

wet crown
#

You people are grasping at straws, when all you have to say it

"I want more info on all the references."

half phoenix
#

That’s literally what we’re asking

next pagoda
#

ye its like how bozja uses names from ff12

dawn wave
#

ivalice raids literally went completely over my head bc i didn’t play the source material ... so what

faint dagger
#

no, not really. I know what the references are. I'm saying that it isn't detailed enough ingame

next pagoda
#

no one is complaining that final fantasy 14 doesnt explain final fantasy 12's lore, or ivalice

faint dagger
#

If something's going to gel into the game, it needs either explaining, or grounding enough to not require explaining. Nier did neither

#

Ivalice sort of did the latter

unreal gale
#

I haven't played the games, and I still have no idea what's going on. The 2P plot twist caught me by surprise. Didn't think the ball was a sin eater, but I also thought it was BS from start to end. Just went along with it for the raids and accepted "evil is evil."

faint dagger
#

2P is original so that's fine

next pagoda
#

and besides ur complaining about information being missing when its not even over yet

half phoenix
#

Technically 2P isn’t original

faint dagger
#

I never said I don't expect it. I hope that it's clarified. I'm saying it currently isn't

next pagoda
#

we have the weekly quest system which is basically konnog giving us info on the ball through letters

somber storm
#

2P is basically 2B's alt skin from Soul Calibur 6 iirc

half phoenix
#

2P was the default palette swap for the second player using 2B in Soul Calibur

next pagoda
#

im kinda curious what type P stands for now

rain onyx
#

Panasonic.

next pagoda
#

considering it cant just be player 2 anymore

unreal gale
#

I was told that Nier told its story less narratively, but FFXIV relies on narration, so I'm not that incentivized to go hunting for letters and sift through info to piece things together. The dwarves are boring, but Ivalice was also a drag. To each their own.

half phoenix
#

Nothing. If anything Phantom, or Parasite or whatever

faint dagger
#

I honestly like 'paradox'

next pagoda
#

i thought it was parasite

faint dagger
#

but either works well tbh

half phoenix
#

It’s never told

next pagoda
#

a lot of the names werent explicitly told in automata either

distant sonnet
#

Its as clearly not a sin eater as, say, Eden.

next pagoda
faint dagger
#

to be fair, since the raid throws around type-55 etc as a haha funny reference, it's probably just designed to take with a pinch of salt

rain onyx
#

I wish I was joking when I said it was Panasonic. >.>

Screenshot_2021-04-17_061223.png
faint dagger
#

ah yes, another case of 'taro makes shit up on the spot that becomes universe canon'. god bless

rain onyx
#

bless

half phoenix
#

Because the meaning of the android names don’t matter, since there isn’t consistency. 2B 9S and what was the third player one? A2? Why was that character’s name the letter first?

silent oriole
#

Attack

faint dagger
#

To be fair, A2 was a prototype

rain onyx
#

because a2 is special

silent oriole
#

Letter signifies android type

half phoenix
#

Not that

wet crown
#

Attacker-type No.2

distant sonnet
#

Yeah. A2 was a prototype and doesn't fall into the otherwise normal naming conventions. Its also meant to be a sign that shes not quite like these other ones.

half phoenix
#

I mean why isn’t she 2A then?

next pagoda
#

ig A2 sounds cooler than 2A

somber storm
#

Dammit, I should have done a 2Bussy joke instead of 2Booty

faint dagger
#

A-type androids are totally obsolete by the time of Automata, so it's fair to assume the naming was also a prototype and got discontinued and changed

#

B-type androids are essentially just A and G type all-rounders

#

G type also being a prototype alongside A

next pagoda
#

her original name was just no2 no?

#

so im guessing the A was added posthumously

wet crown
#

YoRHa No. 2 Type-B(attle)
YoRHa No. 9 Type-S(canner)

Attacker-type No.2

faint dagger
#

Yes, I think the question was why was it the other way round, not why was IT

wet crown
#

uniform designation

faint dagger
#

and that's simply because of old YoRHa naming convention

next pagoda
#

thats how she was addressed in the play

faint dagger
#

Yes, but point remains, changed posthumously to at least fit with the rest of the system

half phoenix
#

But yea going back to the Yoko Taro comment, I feel like in terms of writers/directors, he’d be a “pantser” aka writing going by the seat if his pants and coming up with stuff on the fly, and filling in backstory and explanations later if he gets around to it.

faint dagger
#

I mean, one time I checked the source of the comment about how androids could have genitals added on if they wanted, and found that was just Taro in an interview again

half phoenix
#

Exactly

faint dagger
#

it's amazing how little he gives a shit sometimes honestly

next pagoda
#

its honestly really clever advertising

distant sonnet
#

Taro does usually have some kind of message or deeper theme he wants to work with. This is then dressed up with phat anime girl ass. Details are thrown out on the fly and then he just sticks with it.

next pagoda
#

because he makes himeself this non human entity which helps attract attention to his games

half phoenix
#

Sometimes??? That implies he does ever besides trying to screw over players, like trying to make every attack in the raids 1 shots

distant sonnet
#

But he also doesn't always have anything deeper to say if he isn't interested. Like, say, that SinOAlice game.

next pagoda
half phoenix
#

Hard doubt

distant sonnet
faint dagger
#

Yeah, Taro has strong ideas when it comes to the product, but for everything else he's the definition of on-the-fly

distant sonnet
#

You know that one time he reviewed a video game by saying "I only played it for 2 minutes but I think its probably pretty great I bet"?

#

And just repeated that for like 5 minutes?

next pagoda
distant sonnet
next pagoda
#

ye i was about to say

half phoenix
#

Like hell at the start of the raid quests, when we blasted open the Copied Factory lock, I was expecting the ball the camera focused on to end up being Emil

next pagoda
#

actually what other games has yoko made other than nier and drakengard?

#

has he made any other games?

next pagoda
half phoenix
#

Probably just a handful of JP mobile games for SE

next pagoda
#

or the seed of destruction becomes emil

#

that would have been hillarious

somber storm
#

Tfw no Emil head glam

distant sonnet
#

Something called Phase Paradox before Drakengard, and something called Monster × Dragon

somber storm
#

Can't even glam as Yoko Taro

pastel coyote
distant sonnet
#

And SINoALICE

next pagoda
#

like u have the red girl causing 3rd impact and then the seed just splits in half, revealing emil

pastel coyote
#

footage from raid Nier with Emil

next pagoda
somber storm
#

No Emil decoration as well

rough kestrel
#

Why dont they give any dialogue to Nero in Werylt, or any scenes to Nero at all with gaius.

half phoenix
#

Well on the bright side with tower gone, there’ll be no alternate runs of Paradigm’s Breach and we’re something like 2-3 weeks from finishing the restoration of Tomra and being 100% done with Nier besides getting loot

next pagoda
#

cut mechanic where yoko removes WOLs clothes and starts rolling around on the floor

distant sonnet
rough kestrel
#

Like it's weird to me they heavily imply Nero is piloting the G Savior MKII but he says nothing the entire time

#

Why even imply that he was there

half phoenix
#

It wasn’t Nero...

carmine basin
distant sonnet
#

I never got that implication outside of "it was red"

pastel coyote
rough kestrel
#

It was red as per his personal tastes

half phoenix
#

The red isn’t even a Nero thing.

rough kestrel
#

It's 120% Nero.

half phoenix
#

It’s a Gundam thing.

next pagoda
# carmine basin Sinoalice, and there's a manga about kids being turned to soldiers

is it this one https://myanimelist.net/manga/81683/Kimi_Shi_ni_Tamau_Koto_Nakare ?

MyAnimeList.net
Kimi Shi ni Tamau Koto Nakare

In the future, supernatural powers not only exist but have become science fact. The "Special Abilities Private High School" is established in order to utilize students' powers for the military. Students are roped onto the battlefield without knowing the meaning of the fight, whether it will save their lives... or spell their demise. (Source: Fir...

distant sonnet
#

Honestly, Nero being introduced would have muddied the fuck out of the waters

#

Too late to throw him in and have him meaningfully interact with anyone.

carmine basin
#

Yep, rekka alexiel covered that manga on her blog

pastel coyote
#

Let's be real, if Nero was present in Werlyt will we give as much shit about Gaius than we did ?

rough kestrel
somber storm
#

Nero be the main expert in ultima weapon parts

distant sonnet
#

Plus Nero hanging around might have made the last part hurt less. We can't have that.

pastel coyote
#

For the best or the worst, Nero just be present is enough to steal most of the show.

rough kestrel
#

Like I don't know how you get much clearer than that, but at the same time I find it fucking weird they refuse to directly acknowledge him, but you get still this

half phoenix
#

The main mobile suits being white and blue (RX-78-2, Strike, Freedom, Exia, 00, and Barbatos for example) and the deuteragonist being red.

distant sonnet
#

Alternatively I like the idea of him not wanting to talk to Gaius.

#

Too much to unpack there.

rough kestrel
#

I hope we get some mention of that later, but it is weird to me. Maybe we'll get an echo flashback

half phoenix
#

We won’t

#

Werlyt’s optional content and it’s 100% over, so they have no reason to mention it

rough kestrel
#

Anycase, shit's weird, but I guess he was still present

half phoenix
#

They literally drew it to a close in the last cutscene

pastel coyote
#

"optional content" until it become important again

distant sonnet
#

Ehh. It feels like it should be less optional in the future. They really introduce Gaius again in the MSQ only to have him fuck off forever?

half phoenix
#

It won’t

pastel coyote
#

Like being the closer city we have to garlemald you know

rough kestrel
#

I assume he'll have a minor MSQ role yeah

distant sonnet
#

Especially as we conveniently need a new leader for Garlemald?

rough kestrel
#

keyword minor

half phoenix
#

Gaius

#

Boom, new leader.

distant sonnet
#

It wont? They've already made side content mandatory.

half phoenix
#

We get back story on why he’d be a decent leader of Garlemald via Werlyt, but it’s not necessary to the MSQ.

distant sonnet
#

That seal is broken my dude.

half phoenix
#

Tell that to the “fin” at the end of Werlyt

rough kestrel
#

I've decided not to engage them in discussion Adr because there's no value in it

distant sonnet
#

Oh well, Fin. Can't possibly counteract that. I mean, its the ending of Sorrow of Werylt but that definitely means no other stories can ever be told.