retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[severe brook]

okay so
the Seed is the means by which Watchers infect other worlds to consume them.
it was using Data from the Ark as a reference to build copies of everything to act as its agents.
the Red Girl, embodiment of the Machine Network, merged with it more fully to act more directly.
and pulled us into a pocket dimension built of stored memories of Humans, Aliens, Machines, and Androids

[stiff charm]

finally warframes dead story gets progression in a different game

[strange wing]

I fully expect for the story to wrap up in Replicant Remaster.

[pastel coyote]

Allagan are just surviving orokin

[unborn ferry]

Ah. That makes sense.

[autumn heron]

Basically I HOPE U PLAYED DRAKENGARD 1 AND OG NIER

[unborn ferry]

Yeah

[autumn heron]

[visual spade]

So how come 2B and 9S are there?

[stiff charm]

nah i know the final boss of drakengard 1 and played automata, i understand it

[indigo shale]

i want a warframe trial series as illogical as it is or something so i can beat up hunhow and ballas one way or another

[jade mauve]

Because no one knows kaine & waits

[severe brook]

they are also constructs from the Ark's data

[visual spade]

Hmmmm idk

[unborn ferry]

When you say Ark, you mean ending D, right?

[severe brook]

Yes

[visual spade]

That'd mean the Ark constructed a means of its own failure

[bold condor]

That's why they die when the Seed is destroyed, yes.

[visual spade]

Doesn't seem logical.

[unborn ferry]

So does the ark reach Norvrant? how does the seed get to Norvrant?

[visual spade]

Especially since the Red Girl says what we're doing is pointless, implying violence isn't really gonna stop them.

[stiff charm]

s p a c e

[viscid monolith]

The Ark is not what we're fighting

[bold condor]

^

[unborn ferry]

I know but it has the data from the ark, right?

[iron scaffold]

well they be called Lunarians since they live on the moon but i'm refer a race that equally if not more advance then the Allag that come to Hydealyn for who knows what.

[severe brook]

The Ark never hit Norvrandt. Its data interfaced with the Seed long ago.
The Seed laid dormant deep underground after coming through from another world.

[jade mauve]

Timey whimy stuff

[bold condor]

We're fighting a Seed that has data from the Ark, it's not the actual Ark.

[severe brook]

It was dormant until Anogg and Konogg woke it up a while back.

At which point it made New Anogg and then began producing things based on the Ark's data

[bold condor]

As for why Anogg, 2B, and 9S aren't evil, that probably has to do with one of the major reveals of NieR: Automata.

[viscid monolith]

We're a fighting the Seed and the Red Girl. The Red Girl pulled data from the Ark but also unknowingly pulled 2B and 9S who stopped it.

[bold condor]

||That being that YorHa existed to create conflict for the Machines to evolve themselves.||

[visual spade]

I would rather they not add an alien invasion in the last chapter.

[severe brook]

that's how the Alien Ship and the Bunker ended up under the mountain, they didn't crash so much as they were grown

[visual spade]

Let's save that for 7.0

[pastel coyote]

rap....tap....tap

[autumn heron]

YOU ALL THOUGHT ONLY ELEZEN HAD THE GIRAFFE NECK?

[jade mauve]

I need to replay automata again

[severe brook]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-gif-19898926

[unborn ferry]

Right, right. So the seed (Drakengard) travelled to other worlds. One of those worlds happened to be Norvrant.

[autumn heron]

https://twitter.com/apocalypsefalls/status/1381951069782151168

BEHOLD

caladbolg. 🌱 cat-man euphoria (@apocalypsefalls)

So uh. Word of warning on Catboys (tm) needing the 9S haircut from the NieR raid: Don't u_u

Retweets

445

Likes

739

Twitter · Apr 13, 2021, 12:43 PM

[visual spade]

what is those necks

[jade mauve]

Giraffe-boi

[visual spade]

Graha Tia does not have a giraffe neck no

[stiff charm]

ooooh my quite the texture too

[strange wing]

Secret Elezens

[viscid monolith]

So why is Annog good? She isn't YorHa

[visual spade]

The idea is they are opposing themselves by design, to foster improved evolution.

[unborn ferry]

So how did a seed from the Drakengard world manage to interface with the Ark's data?

[visual spade]

I don't think that's what is happening here tho.

[unborn ferry]

And are the P-androids Machines like Adam and Eve?

[bold condor]

She's based on Konogg's memories.

[unborn ferry]

Or are they a represenative of the Logic Virus infected YoRHa troops?

[severe brook]

https://tenor.com/view/animals-giraffes-lol-gif-3529707

[visual spade]

The biggest mystery is this: is Annog the actual Annog, or an artificial Annog that has taken up the memories of Konogg?

[severe brook]

the latter

[viscid monolith]

Annog is fake

[visual spade]

We think that due to that flashback, but Annogg herself writes "I've been to another world."

[odd verge]

P3 necks

[strange wing]

Biggest mystery is why is the doom saying dwarf so sus

[severe brook]

i wouldn't say she's outright fake; she clearly has free will and self-determination. but she began as a replica of the original.

[visual spade]

She doesn't say "I've come from another world."

[unborn ferry]

Annog was never real? But didnt they awaken the seed together?
Or did the real Annog die during the quest line?

[heady shadow]

the seed only works on coprses

[visual spade]

Did a wounded Annogg crawl into the seed and become reborn? Did Annogg die and become copied?

[viscid monolith]

The real Annog died because Konnog, in spite of being a miner his entire life, has no self preservation instinct during a cave in.

[jade mauve]

Annog fell off a cliff

[bold condor]

Correct.

[severe brook]

real anogg died a while ago in the earthquake. her body entered the Seed. the Seed produced a replica of her

[unborn ferry]

Yeah

[jade mauve]

Oh that was it cave in

[visual spade]

Is this a thing from Drakengard?

[heady shadow]

yes

[severe brook]

...unless your name is Inuart and you walk in with Furiae and Dragon Blood.

[unborn ferry]

I wonder if she knew.
hence why she left a note for him

[viscid monolith]

Knew what?

[visual spade]

How do you mean "the seed only works" "works" in what way?

[heady shadow]

lemma get the ending for it

[unborn ferry]

Thats she was a copy

[jade mauve]

She be dead

[torpid yoke]

are we not counting drakengard 2 because taro wasnt a part of that

[wet crown]

drakengard 2 never happened

[jade mauve]

I don’t think it has any direct links to nier

[unborn ferry]

D2 doesn't even take place in a canon timeline.

[viscid monolith]

Annog figured out she was a copy at some point that is unspecified.

[severe brook]

it will only make replicas from things that are 'dead' in some way.

[heady shadow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMjtn4oICO4

[severe brook]

either a corpse, as with Anogg, or as a mass of 'data' that exists as an Afterlife, as with the Ark

[unborn ferry]

In fact, D3 doesn't fully connect to D1 either.
The only games that ACTUALLY connect via endings is D1, NieR and Automata

[iron scaffold]

didn't that one deleted it self?

[wary perch]

There's no new game plus for nier raid yet so thats mean the story not yet ended

[wet crown]

if you put a corpse in a seed, it will reanimate but with the sole desire to destroy the world

oh and the corpse will mutate

[viscid monolith]

Except Annog who reanimated with the desire to save the world

Save the world from the seed

[glossy terrace]

And do we know about this hair style yet? 😅 dont know how to get it

[unborn ferry]

Proof that Lalafell are the most precious beans

[bold condor]

To be honest, it's possible that has more to do with what kind of person's will brought her back.

Remember that the MC in Drakengard is uh

[unborn ferry]

Is the 2B Red Girl Amalgamation a Watcher?

[severe brook]

*Dwarves

[wet crown]

MC? Caim?

[bold condor]

Yeah, Caim is not a nice dude.

[heady shadow]

no one in drakngard is nice lul

[wet crown]

But Inuart brought Furiae to the seed

[severe brook]

Caim wasn't the one who brought Furiae back though
Inuart was
though Inuart is also not a nice dude, and also an idiot

[bold condor]

Also not a nice dude.

[strange wing]

Caim is Fray if Fray had even less chill

[distant sonnet]

Kinda. Shes based on a watcher, Manah. But.. how directly based on is up for debate.

[wet crown]

Also horny dude

[heady shadow]

One of your party is known to eat babies because she lost her own child lol

[wet crown]

actually, everyone in DG1 is horny

[strange wing]

The nicest person on the party is a pedophile

[iron scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/eyeroll-crying-tears-sad-pink-gif-7434319

[severe brook]

2P/Red Girl fusion is an iteration of a Grotesquerie Queen

[distant sonnet]

Just like A2 is based on mental imagery of Kaine, I guess.

[visual spade]

The Ark isn't dead at all tho

[distant sonnet]

Something something data.

[visual spade]

This is the same Ark from Automata, right? It's the only thing that definitely survives 😄

[bold condor]

God can you imagine if WoL had to meet any of the characters from Drakengard?

[iron scaffold]

featuring Prelude mix OST

[severe brook]

it's a different case since it's data and not organic life. but it is an 'afterlife' after a fashion

[wary perch]

So there is a portrait of gesthal

[somber storm]

Permanent shock face

[wet crown]

Oh boy. The funsies to be had

[heady shadow]

oh it would be mental lmao

[wary perch]

Is it from book?

[unborn ferry]

Which... could mean that the red girl came before Manah, which would also explain why a city appears in D3. It would mean XIV's raid is the missing piece.

[distant sonnet]

Wol: You eat.. what?

Deus vulting intensifies

[bold condor]

WoL:

[strange wing]

Scions vs Watchers would be a interesting fight

[wet crown]

WoL : You want your brother to...what?

[unborn ferry]

Alphinaud vs Giant Demon Baby

[shrewd topaz]

Small aside of the ongoing convo...
Finished the Werly story. Pretty heartbreaking stuff, but I liked that SE threw in a small mystery with the little kids running around Terncliff. They look very much like the younger versions of the Weapon pilots, and even mentioned Allie 'staying with Father', and that she can maybe come play with them later. I enjoyed that little tidbit. Bittersweet, but heartwarming nonetheless.

[strange wing]

Caim and Friends vs Gauis would hilarious

[pastel coyote]

Wol: "you guy are crazy"
Drak: "yeah but we don't imagine dead people when we are sad !"

[heady shadow]

Manah is a descendant of One's Brother.
Cathedral city cause the time displacment creating migar(sp?) and the normal earth timelines

[bold condor]

WoL: And I thought my world had issues, seven hells...

[distant sonnet]

Right burn it all down.

[severe brook]

Diamond Weapon is a love that crushes like a mace

[strange wing]

Can the WoL survive magical nukes?

[wet crown]

WoL : You eat what!?

[odd verge]

god I feel bad for all the lurkers here that have no idea about Taro games lmao

[visual spade]

WoL can survive everythinng but falls

[unborn ferry]

So. To summarise
The Seed somehow gained the data contained within the Ark.
It then travelled to Norvrant, possibly even the Source depending on WHEN the seed arrived (meaning it could have been sundered).
It lay dormant until a couple of Dwarves awaken it.

It then uses the data it obtained to basically start the cycle of Machines vs Androids all over again, so that it could destroy the world?

[visual spade]

I never played Drakengard games, but I watched an LP of 1.

[distant sonnet]

Elflady: No, no. I eat whom.

[unborn ferry]

Oh lord if the Seed got Sundered

[bold condor]

I think probably the most personally fucked up thing that's happened in this game so far was that dude getting his brain carved out and put into a machine this patch.

[strange wing]

Imo, the Seed is the Ark

[visual spade]

The impression I get is that there's many many seeds like this?

And they kinda go wherever?

[distant sonnet]

That whole questline was fucked. And then a feels trip.

[wary perch]

@bold condor seven hells is filled with chickens

[bold condor]

Oh yeah there's absolutely more than one Seed.

[heady shadow]

The seed could have been a by product of when Caim and the dragon fights the Queen beast through to portal and just been sitting there this whole time before copying the Ark then fucking off into a wormhole

[visual spade]

And not a mother and daughter explicitly getting fed to same machine?

[bold condor]

Oh yeah that was pretty bad too.

[severe brook]

probably only Norvrandt. I think we would know if any had ended up on the Source

[unborn ferry]

More than one seed in XIV? I know theres more than one seed in general.

[shrewd topaz]

Yeah, even if it was not explicitly stated, it was very much hinted that was the case. Quite horrifying

[pastel coyote]

Well fannydaniel did say "the seed are here"

[stiff charm]

uh oh

[bold condor]

Honestly, Valens could give my Sith Inquisitor a run for her money.

[carmine basin]

It's not available yet, and it's anyone's guess where it comes from

[severe brook]

i realize it was a horrible existence, but what if Alfonse just stayed alive as a giant robot.

[somber storm]

Valens evil for the sake of evil

[bold condor]

At least in terms of atrocities... so far.

[severe brook]

just hangs out as Diamond Weapon

[stiff charm]

it looks like the hair the tiny miqo uses in 5.3 msq

[visual spade]

Valens was cartoonishly evil

[bold condor]

I might commit worse ones with time. I'm only on Chapter 1.

[unborn ferry]

Ah-... hang on... His name.

[wary perch]

Did they transplant Alfonse brain or just transfer the conscious over to the machine?

[somber storm]

Yes

[visual spade]

Which is fine, it made it more unsettling tbh. Him teaching kids to torture was fucked up.

[shrewd topaz]

I do not like that there was no explanation as to what happened to the Diamond Weapon after our victory. Anyone know?

[pastel coyote]

Which game rommy ?

[jade mauve]

Have to find his brother first

[bold condor]

SWTOR.

[strange wing]

Cid probably has it

[pastel coyote]

The online game or kotor ?

[severe brook]

from the sound of it, they both encoded his brain into the Auracite and also had his nervous system within the machine.

[visual spade]

Just another abandoned wreck I'd think

[unborn ferry]

Alfonse...
His brain is within the machine...

Alfonse... Al...

[indigo shale]

might be a bit awkward going to sneeze then accidentally firing ultima or something

[iron scaffold]

that stupid question to ask at this point

[tulip geyser]

SWTOR, ah I miss what that game could have been

[paper dagger]

The insinuation I got from the dialogue is they actually used is brainmeats in the core.

[bold condor]

The MMO.

[unborn ferry]

Oh my...

[severe brook]

Gaius' giant robot son.

[stiff charm]

cid has to clean out the uh.. brain hole now

[wary perch]

Side note I think the romance of the four warmachina is better a name compare to sorrow of the weyht lol

[unborn ferry]

ALFONSE!

[glossy terrace]

Thanks!

[pastel coyote]

I hear good thing about it but that's all

[severe brook]

most people might get other ideas from "romance" because of the modern definition

[jade mauve]

Better ideas

[bold condor]

I think it's even funnier that their names are Alfonse and Allie and they have white hair.

[strange wing]

OH GOD I JUST REALIZED G-WARRIOR IS STILL ALIVE.

[iron scaffold]

Dont give Yoshi-P idea's

[unborn ferry]

DIAMOND WEAPON IS ALSO A REFERENCE TO FULL METAL ALCHEMIST!

[bold condor]

Alfonse : Alphinaud :: Allie : Alisaie

[strange wing]

GODDAM WE BETTER GET SOME SICK GATTAIS IN EW

[unborn ferry]

And... And...

[bold condor]

Just in terms of names, of course, but I swear it's just there to make us feel worse.

[jade mauve]

I want more g warrior duties

[somber storm]

G Warrior and G Saviour

[strange wing]

COMBINE: G-JUSTICE

[stiff charm]

considering what they did with warring triad for void quests, they very well might make a breakoff quest with g warrior instances in 6 or 7.0

[unborn ferry]

The boss in E10... is a...
Is a...
Oh no...

[shrewd topaz]

Yeah if I had to guess, Cid probably has it. Still unfortunate with how we do not know for certain, but it was still a hell of a story that I enjoyed nevertheless. I had hoped for a better ending, but it is what it is lol

[iron scaffold]

SE own the rights to Fullmetal Alchemist

[heady shadow]

you bastarde

[severe brook]

or it's foreshadowing

[ivory wolf]

mother fucker

[somber storm]

https://tenor.com/view/power-rangers-zord-gif-7989231

[unborn ferry]

It even stands up and attacks like a DRK

[severe brook]

hey rememember the dog's name?

Alexander

[torpid yoke]

E10 out of context

[visual spade]

I liked that we used Ruby Weapon to build a second giant mech

[jade mauve]

🤔

[visual spade]

Like, it wasn't ludicrous enough we had the one. We now have two.

[bold condor]

Cid: G-Warrior blue, engage!
Biggs: G-Warrior yellow, engage!
Wedge: G-Warrior green, engage!
Jessie: G-Warrior purple, engage!
Nero: ...
Cid: Come on, Nero. Say the line.
Nero: ...
Nero: ...N-Warrior, engage!
Cid: No, that's not - ah, bloody hells.

[visual spade]

Let's turn Diamond into one, and then do the same to Emerald.

[torpid yoke]

They also hold the rights to soul eater

[pastel coyote]

What's the point to have two if we don't even use one

[strange wing]

Which means Diamond and Emerald are getting their own G-Warriors

[severe brook]

and then they fuse into Omega Weapon

[visual spade]

Which means we can have a four-man mecha dungeon

[somber storm]

Fuck, what was that iconic red Gundam?

[bold condor]

Nero literally refused to let Cid be the Red Ranger.

[visual spade]

Guys, we can finally have a Xenogears raid.

[severe brook]

i feel like building Diamond into a new Mecha would feel like desecrating a corpse

[bold condor]

They had a playground argument about it and Cid was like "Fine, gods, I like blue better anyroad!"

[torpid yoke]

That's a great idea.

[unborn ferry]

In terms of a fight, Diamond Weapon was a HUGE letdown. Only 1 form? No epic remix? I mean we DID technically get a remix of the Ultima theme, but it was WORSE when compared with the Primals version we had in the last 3 fights.

[pastel coyote]

Nah all thing must be used for the greater good

[unborn ferry]

And it just kinda... floats there

[strange wing]

It also turns into Ifrit

[unborn ferry]

Naruto flying

[somber storm]

Nero and Cid literally had the colour deciding fight from Sleeping Beauty

[unborn ferry]

Yeah that would have been cool had it kept transforming.

[somber storm]

"Make it red"
"Make it blue"

[torpid yoke]

Who's green then

[strange wing]

Jessie

[unborn ferry]

But it didn't. It went back to boring ass naruto floating Elric.

[visual spade]

Does the Savage mode not have any Zenos oversoul stuff?

[torpid yoke]

Heh

[unborn ferry]

Nope

[visual spade]

That seems like a big tease undelivered then.

[jade mauve]

Don’t think so

[somber storm]

There was never a Zenos to begin with

[severe brook]

the Zenos Oversoul was taken out for being too dangerous/uncontrollable

[unborn ferry]

Savage is the same as Normal in terms of the fight.

[torpid yoke]

Zenos data was wiped by alphonse

[bold condor]

There was a Zenos.

[wary perch]

They replace zenos lol

[visual spade]

The fight itself is so fun though.

[somber storm]

Zenos too crazy to control

[strange wing]

No One-Winged Angel mode for Diamond

[visual spade]

It feels like a much better version of Bismarck.

[unborn ferry]

It's fun, but for the final encounter of the Weapons storyline it was a huge letdown.

[jade mauve]

😐 now I feel sad

[carmine basin]

Nah she uses hair that only au ra and lalafell has access to iirc. The datamined hair is totally new

[strange wing]

Cry for lizard children: The Series

[jade mauve]

I am kinda glad tho.. as a not great scholar, if it got anymore hectic I might have broke

[visual spade]

The final Primals never really live up to the hype. Demon fight was just a regular fight too.

[wet crown]

Zurvan was a lot better

[visual spade]

I think ARR was just Shiva?

[severe brook]

Seiryu and Zurvan were cool

[torpid yoke]

I mean I think seiryu was the best of the four lords

[distant sonnet]

I dunno. Seiryu was kinda hype.

[wary perch]

Not gonna lie, when mnaago appear with SB bgmnat the beginning of the diamond weapon quest, I thought the game roll back to SB lol

[bold condor]

Zurvan was better, yes. Also I prefer Suzaku to Seiryu but not by too much.

[autumn heron]

I much prefered Suzaku over Seiryu

[wet crown]

Nope. Byakko was my favourite of the last set

[jade mauve]

Seiryu was cool but I prefer byakko

[torpid yoke]

You mad man

[unborn ferry]

NO MORE GAMES

[severe brook]

Diamond probably could've stood to have an actual phase 2 but it does fit narratively

[strange wing]

New Byakko weapons are a bit much

[bold condor]

I actually kind of like Zurvan best of the Triad though.

[distant sonnet]

Suzaku has the nicer skybox, but Seiryu's ult was amazeballs

[unborn ferry]

But for real, what were the White Androids?

[bold condor]

The only downside to Zurvan for me is that he doesn't have a lyrical theme, but I DO like his themes anyway.

[severe brook]

i like them a lot but they also fit my aesthetic tastes a lot

[wary perch]

Machine life form

[bold condor]

Which ones?

[unborn ferry]

2P

[severe brook]

from what i've gathered, they were the Seed trying to make their own Grotesquerie Queen and failing badly at first

[torpid yoke]

Byakko weapons are amazing

[wary perch]

They puppet of the android

[unborn ferry]

And the other Ps

[strange wing]

No Answers until weekly quests and New game Plus are done

[wet crown]

Sophia > Zurvan > Sephirot
Byakko > Seiryu > Suzaku
Ruby > Emerald >>>>>> Diamond

[bold condor]

Does the P in 2P stand for "Pretender"?

[autumn heron]

I heard Diamond EX is ez too

[wet crown]

Puppet

[severe brook]

could stand for
Pretender
Puppet
Production
Progeny

[autumn heron]

Maybe Ill just PF it

[wet crown]

as in Puppet's Bunker

[bold condor]

Puppet is right, yes.

[strange wing]

The P in 2P atands for Strand

[carmine basin]

Panasonic

[wary perch]

Will Yoko taro be mad enough to give secret ending when we do new game plus for the nier raid?

[torpid yoke]

All ex's are easy

[iron scaffold]

Dark Samus but instead of Phazon it's made from the WC

[severe brook]

Dark Apocalypse is the first Strand-type Raid

[bold condor]

the cumpound

[jade mauve]

makes me want to see if i can pug it

[severe brook]

the com pounding

[visual spade]

2P = toupee

[jade mauve]

always been frightened with the ex stuff cos i dont have a static

[severe brook]

Player

[visual spade]

A fake imitation of a real thing.

[wet crown]

EX fights are designed to be doable with most people

they're not savage fights

[stiff charm]

ex is totally doable in party finder

[visual spade]

Yeah I looked up Eden 12S

and uhhhhhh, there's no earthly way I could clear that fight 😄

[autumn heron]

They are but I mean most PFs are clearing it no problem. Which usually isnt the case cause people in PF are idiots

[unborn ferry]

Hang on a second.. I'm combg through the copied factory and when we get to this part

The white dust... Like when the Queen Beast died.

[wet crown]

Salt.

[heady shadow]

yes

its #WCS

[unborn ferry]

And what are the sin eaters?

[wet crown]

...beings corrupted by light

[unborn ferry]

I dont mean it like that of course.
Just saying... they turn white.

[severe brook]

yeah there are similarities between WCS and Sin-Eaters

[heady shadow]

they arent the same

[strange wing]

Oh no.

[severe brook]

but they aren't the same thing

[wary perch]

Sin eater is just aether become astral aspect

[strange wing]

The pacts are just tempering

[subtle pasture]

Same inspiration, EEEVVILLLLLL angels

[distant sonnet]

They're very similar symptoms but completely different conditions

[iron scaffold]

not the same but Equally fuck up

[unborn ferry]

I wonder if we caught WCS while heeeere and are bringing it back to Eorzea? 😮

[wet crown]

there is so much wrong in this sentence

[heady shadow]

Oh no Watchers are more fucked up then Sin Eaters heh

[severe brook]

Umbral aspect

[distant sonnet]

Sin Eaters are just body horror.
Watchers, body horror is just step 1.

[heady shadow]

Giant Babies.

[unborn ferry]

Oh, this is as far as you can go...

[distant sonnet]

Giant Baby vore apocalypse. Wheeee

[severe brook]

did anyone else catch Her Inflorescence using some of Eve's moves?

[torpid yoke]

Usually the case on aether so I wouldn't know

[wet crown]

it had a lot of moves from bosses of the whole DrakenNier lore

[iron scaffold]

no it's Astral, we gotta accept that the Eorzea/Hydealyn have it the wrong way

[wary perch]

https://twitter.com/Q6Q6TIKIN/status/1382291065558818817?s=09

ふしゅ・表垢 (@Q6Q6TIKIN)

https://t.co/Kiwv0XGQob

Retweets

1317

Likes

3679

Twitter · Apr 14, 2021, 11:14 AM

[wet crown]

[severe brook]

Umbral is Light is Static. Astral is Dark is Dynamic. Even though the Light and Dark names are wrong and have been switched, they've still been calling Static Aether Umbral and Dynamic Aether Astral.

[unborn ferry]

Wait, can we not explore the newest raid? Only the first two?

I'm hunting down those ??? chests

[carmine basin]

How far are you cappugino

[teal geyser]

Correct

[unborn ferry]

I'm at the weekly part now

[distant sonnet]

Yeah nah. New raid fell apart.

[unborn ferry]

Yeah, but didnt that also undo the other 2 raids?

[strange wing]

Music is worth it imo

[unborn ferry]

They were all made from the seed, right? None of it was real.

[severe brook]

I think that the Tower faded much faster because it had only been there for a little bit. the rest will take time to collapse

like how the recreated Amaurot will disappear eventually

[iron scaffold]

which is problem that have to be corrected

[unborn ferry]

Then again, we take the machine parts to the Doomsayer Dwarf for them to repair stuff

[jade mauve]

😦 I hope not

[unborn ferry]

Which might pose a problem when those parts vanish... So maybe they wont?

[visual spade]

The Tower was transmitted from another dimension

I think the bunker is literally there tho

[severe brook]

The Bunker and Factory also grew from the Seed, they've just been there for longer.

[unborn ferry]

Didnt the Bunker actually crash into the mountains, though?

[iron scaffold]

Bunker isn't going nowhere, we need it to make android race

[simple axle]

they really build that death flag faster than casting sean bean on arenvald

[jade mauve]

yup

[visual spade]

Arenvald will live

[severe brook]

No, it grew underground after Anogg and Konogg woke up the Seed.

[unborn ferry]

I thought there was an earthquake like something crashed into the mountains when the Bunker appeared

[severe brook]

that's how it still looks pristine despite the fact that if it was that new, people would've noticed it crashing far enough to fully bury itself in a mountain

[visual spade]

I predict Fordola will make a heroic sacrifice if anyone.

[jade mauve]

Nah Fordola has the redemption arc story path

[severe brook]

my guess is the Earthquake may have been caused by the Seed entering this dimension

[gaunt star]

Im still of the mind that if someone gets a death fakeout thats basically immunity for a while

[visual spade]

Jojo 3 says hello

[iron scaffold]

that or she get's character develpment which leads her to join the Scions

[jade mauve]

she is new Gaius now Gaius is pure white

[indigo shale]

its ishikawa writing so only villains will die, but not before being made deeply sympathetic

[gaunt star]

Cuz going "jk they survived" just to actually kill them is 😑

[visual spade]

Stormblood did that to everyone and it was funny, but

Shadowbringers felt more like Heavensward, so I want that.

HW is still, to me, the perfect cut of FF14 in so many ways.

[jade mauve]

arent heavensward people on ff16 now tho?

[simple axle]

yeah but exarch had death flags too but not this ultra sanic speed

[jade mauve]

sony timed exclusive ff16 😦

[gaunt star]

If they try to redeem zenos they will ruin his character (for me)

[visual spade]

I don't see a redemption for Zenos

[distant sonnet]

I so do not buy the concept of death flags.

[visual spade]

He'd laugh at it. He's had all this time to show any kind of growth, he's not interested. He just wants to fight.

[bold condor]

Zenos needs no redemption, he does what he wants.

[jade mauve]

Zenos is eating Zodiark

[distant sonnet]

Such an overused nonsense term.

[visual spade]

Fandaniel is gonna get redeemed.

[jade mauve]

its the only way

[bold condor]

Fandaniel's probably not getting redeemed, but we probably will understand why he's like this.

[visual spade]

Ya'lls bein' silly not thinking so. His whole thing is "I don't wanna live" because life is pain

[gaunt star]

I dont really understand how a character gets death flags except for the cases where the character goes "nothing bad can definitely happen to us right guys :)". The concept just doesnt make sense to me

[simple axle]

i just hope zenos dies early i'm already sick of him since sb
valens was a better evil because evil villain too imo

[bold condor]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-meeseeks-rick-and-morty-gif-18325280

[jade mauve]

I thought Estinians question was basically confirming than Fandan has to die

[teal geyser]

Arenvald got death flags as fast as Narancia

[bold condor]

There it is.

[indigo shale]

nah i think fandaniel will bite the dust, we'll get more understanding of him, but nonredeemable like all the other ascians

[visual spade]

And we're gonna be like "no, life is fun" and he'll be like "really? Maybe life would be fun if I had friends" and we'll be like "let's be friends" adn then Zenos is like "allow me to introduce myself"

[gaunt star]

Also yeah zenos is such a... Well... Villain. And thats part of why i like him. I dont want him to get hit with the "actually..." Button.

[indigo shale]

Zenos is great, IMO the best villian in the game

[visual spade]

Fandaniel will ultimately sacrifice himself not so others may die, so that they may live

[gaunt star]

... what

[teal geyser]

I'm just happy Zenos is no longer sat down, seeing him actually doing things is such a breath of fresh air

[bold condor]

I'm naming this Rommy's Law. Discussing anything about Zenos will inevitably lead to someone saying "I want Zenos to die early because I personally don't like him."

[visual spade]

And the Warrior of Light will bow his head reverently and say "Damn, Daniel."

[teal geyser]

This is more Lyse's Law

[gaunt star]

TRUEEEE zenos standing up and getting angy was

[visual spade]

Zenos is 10000001% the final boss

[distant sonnet]

DeAtH fLaGs are responsible for half of the bitching about supposed death fakeouts for characters in ShB. Even though it would have made no sense for any of the characters to die then and would have aborted their story arcs.

[jade mauve]

Zenos might make the sacrifice, but Fandaniel is not getting turned

[visual spade]

Gosetsu never died.

[stiff charm]

zenodiark

[jade mauve]

how do you turn, i want to destroy the world for fun into redemption

[simple axle]

well it's just my opinion really
i don't know how they can develop him further
and idk how often it gets mentioned because i don't browse her emuch

[visual spade]

Zenos isn't getting redeemed, his whole thing is that he thinks you're his friend.

[gaunt star]

fandanny isnt getting redeemed

[indigo shale]

Y'shtola should have died at the siege of rhalgrs reach speaking of death, absolutely 0 reason she lived through that,

[gaunt star]

Ok but real talk. How the fuck does a character get death flags. The concept of character doing X getting deaths flags makes no sense to me except for cases where they jinx it

[visual spade]

He's already been won over. Now you just have to cross swords.

[gaunt star]

tho people got upset hes the mad kind of type and not like the other ascians xdd

[jade mauve]

fanger

[teal geyser]

You kinda just answered yourself?

[visual spade]

The answer to this and so many other questions of this nature is: autism

[bold condor]

You mean apart from having a barrier up when it happened?

[teal geyser]

bro

[gaunt star]

But they don't ever really jinx themselves? Like... What did arenvald do to get death flags. Im just confused

The concept of death flags is what's getting me. Is there a list of things to do to get a death flag

[indigo shale]

Zenos killed people with less powerful attacks, he shattered the barrier with a two handed attack and sliced right through her, meanwhile armoured garleans die in a one handed casual slash,

[gaunt star]

@_@

[jade mauve]

told Alphie he wants to be a hero, suggested he was just a normal warrior but sees WOL as his insperation, saying we all have a duty to do

[visual spade]

Y'shtola has a massive sword over her head

[teal geyser]

Because it's a very common narrative thing to talk about how everyone is going to live happily before ripping them apart, how many times do you get sudden backstory of a character before something bad happens to them for instance? It's a lot

[bold condor]

Zenos has also not killed people with similar attacks. Especially when they're named characters. He doesn't insta-kill Lyse, either.

[gaunt star]

Hmm..

[bold condor]

He cut Y'shtola once with a sword. He didn't fucking rip her in half.

[jade mauve]

#plot armour

[simple axle]

it's... just a plot device?
if the author wants x to die then he will make it so, usually after getting infodump of said person or hearty moment

[bold condor]

I mean, actual armor. She was using a spell that granted her actual armor.

[visual spade]

Y'shtola is very powerful even among the Scions

[indigo shale]

still a powerful attack, man is like kenpachi, two hands should be insta death

[gaunt star]

So like how people who get to talk about their life in talent shows tend to get through auditions

[jade mauve]

i am fairly sure she always has a secret aether armour

[bold condor]

That's stupid, Kenpachi doesn't even insta-death people by using two hands.

[stiff charm]

a sword is a sword though being "more powerful" doesnt make your sword cut peoples organs more effectively

[teal geyser]

Ummm, sure same idea yeah

[somber storm]

Aether plot armour

[visual spade]

I think it's a safe prediction that a Scion will die in EW

[teal geyser]

I can give ideas of instances where shit like this happens in shows if you want

[bold condor]

I'm not talking about invisible aether armor, I'm talking about the fact that he had to cut through a Protect spell to get to her.

[stiff charm]

people forget that a scion did die in shb

[jade mauve]

Its got to be alphinaud right?

[gaunt star]

I get its not exactly 1:1 but me and my sisters can always guess if a person will make it through auditions when they give their backstory and shit

[gaunt star]

Yes please

[visual spade]

Alisaie for sure.

[bold condor]

Like, it gets carved through, so she gets hurt, but it's not like Louisoix's Protect spell failing caused him to be incinerated.

You still benefit from Protect even if it gets ripped off of you.

[jade mauve]

who?

[stiff charm]

it cant happen, if it happens i will deny it forever, they cant kill both best girls

[simple axle]

papalymo really be that forgettable huh

[bold condor]

That's SB, not ShB.

[jade mauve]

better not be

[wet crown]

who?

[stiff charm]

minfilia

[gaunt star]

Papalymo didn't die in shb

[bold condor]

I mean she died in HW.

[jade mauve]

Minfillia was already dead

[simple axle]

oh right that was post-HW

[stiff charm]

ok i guess

[visual spade]

Alisaie has no real future prospects, she's hit her character development threshold. Alphinaud is already growing into a more developed political actor, and we'll probably see him get a taller model in 7.0

[bold condor]

Arguably ARR.

[indigo shale]

yeah a bit of exaggeration on my side, but still a lot more power went into that attack than his normal ones ,i still dont see any reason why she survived the attack

[stiff charm]

THEY CANT GIVE US TALLPHINAUD BUT NOT GIVE US TALLISAIE. THIS IS HERESY

[simple axle]

minfili-who

[regal lantern]

WHat... after all this time you say this...?

[bold condor]

We are literally never going to see a taller model. The boy is 16 and as Urianger stated he's probably not going to his a growth spurt until he's 20. Which the writers will never let happen.

[gaunt star]

5.5 aka the alphinaud show ft. estinien (which is not a bad thing. I enjoyed it)

[teal geyser]

Issue is I'm not sure how many of these will be something you know but for instance in My Hero ||All Might started getting a lot of backstory before his fight with All for One where he doesn't die but he gets mega-fucked forever||, in Naruto, ||Jiraya got a lot of shit expanded in his character before his death||, help me out guys I'm trying to remember more

[jade mauve]

wont they just turn them both to stone? lets not forget they started the ARR story

[visual spade]

I think we'll see a 'time skip' between 6.0 and 7.0

[bold condor]

No we won't.

[visual spade]

I think we will

[bold condor]

I know we won't.

[teal geyser]

Any time skip at any point will break literally all questing and plot

[gaunt star]

I get the MHA one. Naruto one is vaguer but i can see what you mean.

[visual spade]

I think after the end of the main story

[simple axle]

how would they pull that off
the narrative and the world discrepancy would be far too big

[bold condor]

They've been extremely dedicated to never time skipping at all since 2.0.

[jade mauve]

I dont know about time skip, but i think they will do time moving quests in 6.x

[visual spade]

There'll be some element of time progression.

[bold condor]

Yes, indeterminate time progression. Like usual.

[jade mauve]

so, we wait 3 months for this

[teal geyser]

Yes, "some time has passed"

[simple axle]

imagine doing the timeskip part of the plot and then unlocking coils

[gaunt star]

So... If alphinaud wasnt in EW trailer, would he be getting death flags too? @teal geyser

[visual spade]

You will see grown-up Alphinaud.

[teal geyser]

haha no

[visual spade]

I am a prophet

[jade mauve]

nah he is stone boi

[teal geyser]

I'd love to see it but man nah

[gaunt star]

Since we already know he's still kicking

[visual spade]

It shall come to pass.

[bold condor]

We won't. And the reason why is because Alphinaud's size is one of his major distinguishing features compared to the likes of Urianger.

[visual spade]

But not until 7.0

[tight latch]

think zenos will really be the new melee job?

[gaunt star]

Yes

[teal geyser]

Everyone will stop liking the twins when they become giraffes anyway

[jade mauve]

we might get grown up moon alphie

[visual spade]

His character will get an updated design and function

[bold condor]

Same with Alisaie. Their height makes them immediately recognizable.

[teal geyser]

with a new outfit yes

[visual spade]

Following Alisaie's tragic death, he becomes a young Louisox type.

[bold condor]

No he won't, apart from a new outfit.

[gaunt star]

The end of msq was a huge.. idk what to call it. Wasn't confirmation but was pretty close

[visual spade]

Search your feelings, you know it will be true.

[jade mauve]

I just think the twins story ends with endwalker

[bold condor]

Yeah but nah.

[visual spade]

The twins continue on. The scions won't.

[bold condor]

Probably not, they're two of the game's most popular characters.

[distant sonnet]

I swear, Game of Thrones entering pop culture broke peoples minds when it came to characters having to die to punctuate story moments.

[teal geyser]

Delete Scions

[gaunt star]

But zenos has to be the new melee. If he's not I'll be real surprised

[visual spade]

Thancred, Y'Shtola, Urianger will all retire at EW and become background characters; Alphinaud is the perfect figure to continue into the next era with.

[stiff charm]

if he is ill be conflicted on whether i want to play pld or the new jow in msq

[crystal arrow]

We may get a time advance for the twins, see alphy grow up a bit, since they seem to be emphasizing that in 5.5

[bold condor]

What's funny is how NieR: Automata manages to be a good story despite no important good guy characters ever having to die.

[visual spade]

Sharlayan will likely be a 7.0 place.

[somber storm]

Then season 8 happened and now it's barely in any pop culture

[gaunt star]

Also if there's death flags are there life flags

[visual spade]

Exactly. When they lay out a bread crumb, I tend to take it.

[stiff charm]

automata spoilers ||i mean 2b||

[gaunt star]

Well at least you'll get 70->80 to decide if you like it

[bold condor]

||2B comes back in Ending E.||

[stiff charm]

ok true

[teal geyser]

Umm...maybe? Generally people are always alive so it's a bit harder but sure

[visual spade]

Uh, an entire village

[bold condor]

I said "important good guy characters."

[crystal arrow]

I disagree with you about the others, I think they'll still be around.

[visual spade]

Technically you kill ||Pascal||

[distant sonnet]

Well, yeah. Season 8 was.. unbelievably catastrophic to its cultural impact, for sure.

[bold condor]

If we're counting machine village, we count Rhalgr's Reach. And I don't even count Conrad.

[teal geyser]

OOF

[gaunt star]

Fair enough. I'll look into it more myself at some point. Thanks for explaining it to me

[crystal arrow]

I believe they mean the scions themselves will be dissolved

[stiff charm]

circle of knowing 2

[bold condor]

The Square of Knowing. The Square Enix.

[visual spade]

They'll not be needed, yeah. Thancred may even return to Norvrandt.

[distant sonnet]

Why would they dissolve the scions? They have the same reason to keep it as they used to.

[teal geyser]

Really deathflags are just noticing common narration tricks and tropes

[crystal arrow]

They can't do that. It was established as such.

[distant sonnet]

Primals still show up, the world still needs smart people to help as needed.

[teal geyser]

Y'shtola will find a way god damn it, Thancred can too

[gaunt star]

That makes sense yeah. I think I'm only used to the really stupidly obvious ones so the finer ones are lost to me

[stiff charm]

unless we remove the existence of primals somehow, though that would break past quests

[visual spade]

Love finds a way

[wet crown]

past quests have already been broken

[visual spade]

Y'shtola gotta get some of that catdaddy magic

[distant sonnet]

The only way it makes sense to dissolve the scions is if Sharlay enters things on a longterm scale, cause then we can just go ask them.

[gaunt star]

Fuck the sharlayans

[visual spade]

they're nerds

[gaunt star]

Huge nerds

[visual spade]

Sharlayan is bound to be 7.0, I'd be surprised if we do Thavnair AND Sharlayan AND Garelmald AND the Moon in EW

[bold condor]

Sharlayan is absolutely 6.0 since Krile is going there to get their help.

[gaunt star]

Cant wait to go talk to hydaleyn again after the nerds figure out why she stopped talking

[bold condor]

There's like a 1% chance at this point that we don't go there to help with that.

[visual spade]

Then we're really gonna be just globe hopping here

[bold condor]

I mean, it is the end of the WORLD. Not the end of Ilsabard.

[visual spade]

Maybe EW is absolutely huge.

[distant sonnet]

Alphinaud is totally going there to get sage after his healing isn't good enough for rando soldiers in 5.56, too.

[bold condor]

Would be a weak apocalypse if it's only shown to effect a single location.

[gaunt star]

"WOL?"
"Yes Hydaelyn?"
"Where's Zodiark?"

[visual spade]

Well I'd thought that's what Thavnair would be, and we'd have a grand world tour to clear out the towers

[bold condor]

Thavnair is the Eulmore equivalent.

[visual spade]

EW being the end of this storyarc, I'd expect it to want to have you retrace your steps to some extent

[wet crown]

Radz-at-han is a major point of commerce. No way in hell it won't be the vendor hub.

[visual spade]

See how far you've come.

We'll have Radz-at-han and some Kholusia equivalent region zone

[gaunt star]

On the topic of sharlayan. What's the aesthetic like? (Or real world equivalents)

[visual spade]

Disney

[wet crown]

Plain.

[teal geyser]

There is a lot of nautical themes in it's designs, otherwise it's...whatever?

[bold condor]

Sorry, I meant Radz-at-Han, and Thavanair is the Kholusia for it yes.

[visual spade]

No, it's Disney.

[gaunt star]

Ooh

[severe brook]

...you know what i just realized rewatching the end of Diamond Weapon?

"Heirsbane."

[visual spade]

Fantasia is literally a major inspiration, you have talking brooms and talking frogs. It's very classic, Western-style, quaint fantasy

[teal geyser]

Really just look at Idyllshire and the Hinterlands Necro

[visual spade]

Sharlayan's aestheic is one of my favs tbh, I loved the Hinterlands and the library

[paper dagger]

Marble, books, and pompous asshats, that's Shar-land in a nutshell.

[somber storm]

Don't forget shells

[visual spade]

Don't forget about awful magical experiments left unattended

[somber storm]

Gubal library

[teal geyser]

So many fucking shells

[gaunt star]

Oh yeah they were around idyllshire. I forgot

[gaunt star]

I like the glows

[teal geyser]

Sharlayan as a city is upside down confirmed

[bold condor]

ye

[gaunt star]

I hope we get green glowy stuff for glams

[bold condor]

No, you get the blue glowy needle and you like it

[gaunt star]

[severe brook]

so after Crocea Mors, Gaius is probably getting a Crossing the Rubicon moment in EdW, right?

because his Julius Caesar allegory is magnifying

[gaunt star]

Isnt nym upside down as well/floating

[bold condor]

Gaius van Caelsar

[severe brook]

though ironically, he may well turn the Empire back into a Republic

[teal geyser]

Just floating

[visual spade]

Dude all the best dungeons were Sharlayan

[teal geyser]

/doubt

[paper dagger]

He's a reverse-Caeser, he does the stabbing.

[gaunt star]

Oh. Isnt one of the buildings there upside down tho? Wanderers palace?

[visual spade]

Antitower, Gubal Library, the indoor garden place

[bold condor]

Nope.

[severe brook]

maybe they're thinking of Antitower

[visual spade]

Matoya is Sharlayan too isn't she?

[bold condor]

Antitower is, but that one's Sharlayan. Nym's ruins aren't upside-down.

[severe brook]

the Caesar parallel will be completed when Fandaniel will use Synthetic Auracite to mind control all the Solus clones to stab Gaius

this'll fit...somehow

[bold condor]

Yeah, that's not upside-down, it's just weird-looking.

[gaunt star]

Tf

Ok fair enough... If you look at it upside down it doesnt really look right

[bold condor]

Easier to tell from the inside that it's meant to be that way rather than being actually flipped architecture like the Antitower.

[paper dagger]

I think it's not so much Wanderer's Palace is upside down, it's more their knowledged allowed them to make buildings that defied standard logic in terms of good practice and they did it because "Fuck you, we know so much we can make our buildings however we want"

[stiff charm]

or there is a faction in ala mhigo that betrays him

[gaunt star]

Ah, nymians

[bold condor]

lmao when Gaius comes back to the MSQ but you didn't do Werlyt like

"ah, yes, the new governor of Werlyt, Gaius Baelsar."

WoL: "WHEN. HOW. WHY."

[gaunt star]

Was there any hints to gaius being back before he actually appeared btw

[severe brook]

Gaius becomes Werlyt's representative to the Eorzean Alliance

just sits in at council meetings

[gaunt star]

I remember seeing the text prompt like "wait"

[distant sonnet]

Not really. No corpse, of course, but thats okay. People at the time thought Shadowhunter may even have been like, his son.

[bold condor]

They reminded you he existed a few times in 4.0 and avoided implying he was dead.

[teal geyser]

He doesn't show up in palace of the dead

[visual spade]

People were calling it

[teal geyser]

That was about it, the rest of his gang were in PotD but him

[visual spade]

Gaius was speculated to be alive even in Stormblood's build-up

[bold condor]

Also not in DRK 70

[teal geyser]

Right Romms

[distant sonnet]

People call just about everything.

Infinite monkeys and infinite typewriters, etc

[gaunt star]

Livias in potd?

ye

[azure garnet]

why did they name the mount Landwaffle out of all names...

Landwaffle cuz thats how i read it

[gaunt star]

Huh

[candid pewter]

waffe is a german term usually associated with weapons

[visual spade]

Luftwaffe

[candid pewter]

luftwaffe was the german air force

[teal geyser]

mmm tasty

[candid pewter]

wunderwaffe is the wonder gun in call of duty zombies :V

[azure garnet]

ahhh that explains but still, that name tho lmao

now i think of it as breakfast

[distant sonnet]

Mix of german for weapon and the Lindwyrm, I think?

[gaunt star]

Does anyone know what the music starting at 1:13 is from/called? It wasnt in nier like i expected https://youtu.be/VG9VC5B_wRw

[visual spade]

oh wow, the Nier final boss theme, I wasn't imaginign it, it's literally a fusion of Nier music and the Final Fantasy theme

[lucid crater]

I bet it'll be apart of Bozja

[gaunt star]

Maybe the new LSA boss music

[stiff charm]

probably the bozja battle theme or a boss theme

[severe brook]

it's probably the interior of Dalriada or something else for Bozja

[gaunt star]

Oh is that what the large scale is called? Dalriada?

[severe brook]

Zadnor is the place, Dalriada is the giant airship moored there

[gaunt star]

Ye, didnt know we got a name drop

[unborn ferry]

Just spent about 30 mins on big red girl

Cus the alliance couldnt figure out her mechanics

[dense hull]

Death flags everywhere!

[unborn ferry]

I think I really do take for granted the difference in raid-awareness between casuals and raiders.
Like, I see a mechanic and its like "Oh yeah thats obvious lol. Handle it like this" Meanwhile , the other 20 odd people are running around "WHAT DO WE DO?!"

[gaunt star]

The entire design of the alliance raid seems to be "die to this once to see how it works then never again"

[paper dagger]

I admit I struggled with the yank mechanic because I'm not good at estimating distance traveled to hit the safe spots

[gaunt star]

The mechanics literally are designed to always kill u the first time unless u got lucky pretty much

[unborn ferry]

But you KNEW what the mechanic did

[gaunt star]

Its just across the arena, also it gives u like a full second to move after its kinda dumb

[deft burrow]

The alliance raid is very well telegraphed, nothing in that raid makes you die to it to understand the second time.

[gaunt star]

Things like the knockback in the first boss

[deft burrow]

Yeah?

[paper dagger]

Eh, I dunno, the first bosses yeet did because we all got BEHIND it figuring it was to shield us from an AE... then it did a push and we realized we needed to be in front of it, but got yeeted before we could get around.

[gaunt star]

Its just very bland design, they shock you by wiping you once then youre like "aha ok guess ill never die again"

[visual spade]

I definitely die a lot in Alliance raids

[unborn ferry]

Look at how many people are dead on the miniboss

[visual spade]

But as a dragoon, I argue it's just a testament to how well I play my job

[unborn ferry]

Like the whole black white mechanic from Red Girl. I saw people dying to the same thing repeatedly.

[paper dagger]

It's also very machine dependent, once I adapted to my new-gfx card and monitor, I find I'm doing better in certain runs because it's just rendering faster/smoother and it gives me a slight advantage. Just a LOT more screenspace to see what's going on.

[gaunt star]

By the second or third time through I didnt have to think about the mechanics anymore, theye incredibly simple after they kill you 1 time by force

[unborn ferry]

My first run of this raid I didnt die once. I was the tank, mind you.

But I figured out every mechanic pretty much instantly. Red Girl was the only one were I had to get hit to figure it out

Cus I mean, I'd assume White counters black. But no we're going magnets

[paper dagger]

But in the end... some people don't have the time/energy to "git gud", this is something they do after a 12 hour day and they're already intellectually/mechanically exhausted. Not gonna deny them what catharsis they have in this life.

[gaunt star]

I have seen like every single alliance on twitch get hit by the building in the final boss

But only 1 time

[deft burrow]

Bad then lol

Alliance isn't filled with savage raiders

[paper dagger]

HA, I got hit by that because I assumed htat's what you were SUPPOSED to do

[gaunt star]

same

I thought we were gonna fight on it

[paper dagger]

I figured the building would be the safe spot and if you were off it, you'd fall to your death

[gaunt star]

And they were gonna have like an uplift mechanic

But thatd actually have depth which doesnt work for this raid

I wish we got extreme alliance raids

Thatd be sick

[pulsar current]

Dr savage?

I mean it’s in the game so hard alliance raids aren’t out of the question

[paper dagger]

I've been thinking about trying out DR Savage but I dunno if I want to get much into the Savage/Extreme thing. Learning Titania sucked and I just don't have the time/will for the drama. My EQ days gave me my fill of that (including myself, I was a drama llama at times)

[deft burrow]

I'd do DR savage but finding a group to do it is the hard part

[azure garnet]

this tbh. id just leave them be and mind my own business

[severe brook]

@bold condor tagging you in here since it's from the new patch, but it is implied Nero had a hand in putting together the G-Savior Mk II

would've been neat to see him interacting with Gaius and/or Valens directly, though

[gaunt star]

It doesnt really take much time or energy to get good, find your rotation on the balance and hit a dummy for an hour

[paper dagger]

If I ever spent an hour hitting a dummy, I'd uninstall the game

[crystal arrow]

the part that makes DRS savage is just the 48 players, as far as I've seen mechs are on par with EX's

[deft burrow]

mhm

[gaunt star]

Yea its basically 4 extreme trials with trash in between

[crystal arrow]

though if that's trialing savage alliance raids, I'd be down for it - it'd be a stepping stone between ex and savage I'd imagine

[gaunt star]

Its not

Its just another baldesion arsenal

[crystal arrow]

They trial shit in the relic content, dude, if people like it or it works well they implement it in other places

[gaunt star]

Yea but its not new

[paper dagger]

That's just not what some people, particularly those with limited playtime, want to spend their time doing. I've read The Balance guides and I use them as a guideline. But I know my Red Mage rotation isn't efficient. Don't care and I'm not putting in that much time to make it better. It's functional and seems to keep pace.

[deft burrow]

Could do so much with savage dungeons, the mechanics you could do involving 4 people would be much more unique and in depth than 8.

[gaunt star]

If u dont wanna put in the bare minimum to play the game properly idk what to say

[crystal arrow]

I didn't say it was? I just said having specifically an alliance raid denoted as "savage" is new - there was no BA savage, that was just how hard it was

[gaunt star]

labyrinth of the ancients was their trial for that and people hated it

[open verge]

Savage dungeons sound awful at least for mob packs
Sounds like hp sponges

[paper dagger]

The bare minimum is studying a guide and spending time bored out of your skull hitting a dummy? That's ... not gonna get you a large playerbase.

[deft burrow]

I mean depends on mechanics @open verge

[crystal arrow]

millions of players would disagree with that

[gaunt star]

so they dumbed down 24mans going forward and made them pure catchup content

Yea but baldesian was harder than delubrum normal cause there was no higher difficulty

[crystal arrow]

this is an mmo, it requires you to know your class well

[deft burrow]

They've always been that @gaunt star

[open verge]

I wouldn’t mind savage dungeons if they don’t make it annoying and spongy

[paper dagger]

You need to know your class enough to be functional, well isn't required nor should it be.

[deft burrow]

They'd be much smaller scale but, obviously they'd be longer with savage level mechanics for mob packs and bosses.

[gaunt star]

Yea but doing your rotation wrong isnt functioning, ur just being carried at that point

[crystal arrow]

savage dungeons could be like DRS where it opens new rooms and has new mechanics or something, which would be cool

[maiden lodge]

If by 'going forward' you mean 'since Labyrinth of the Ancients'

[gaunt star]

that is what I mean, good job

[crystal arrow]

well is required in most content. if you're not doing it well you're dragging your team down.

[paper dagger]

I'm a damn good tank, should be considering how long I've tanked in MMO's and the time I've put in. I've DPS'd/heal'd MANY tanks where I could do a better job. But I don't hold them to that standard. As long as they're functional and get the job done, I'm content. I'm not going to bitch a dungeon took 25 minutes opposed to 15.

[gaunt star]

Yea but the issue is when ppl with ur mindset go into savage

[maiden lodge]

If a dungeon takes 25 minutes, generally.. that actually is a huge problem.

[distant sonnet]

I'd agree if any of the classes were actually hard.

[deft burrow]

^

[gaunt star]

anyone how much mettel do DR get btw ?

And they trap pfs cause their dmg isnt up to par

[paper dagger]

Well then that's their problem for going into Savage. I don't want to put in crazy work to "perfect" my rotation. I don't have the time or desire to get that nuts about an MMO again. BUt that's why I don't do it.

[distant sonnet]

Cursory research and a tiny bit of practice and you can hit 50+ easy, more with gear. If you're not inclined to do so, thats on you. Don't portray that as some kind of epic time investment, because it isn't.

[gaunt star]

[unborn ferry]

For all my suffering... I rolled a 10 on the 2B Hair

[maiden lodge]

There's a pacing to dungeons people are used to. They're used to doing x number of mechanics, they're used to their resources coming up at x in a pack. They're used to a feeling of a dungeon flow, and they find it fun when it follows that flow.

Honestly, making them do more AoE spam or another couple runs of boss mechanics isn't doing it for them. It's an attitude that honestly, is less fun for a lot of players.

It's not about 'being optimal'. It's about falling into a groove and then having a rare player disrupt that groove because THEY think doing less than mediocre is somehow as fun for everyone as doing... normal levels of throughput.

[paper dagger]

But an alliance raid isn't savage. It's base gameplay.

[gaunt star]

dont have time
play an mmo

Pick one

[deft burrow]

Yeah then good, just don't do it. That's your choice.

[unborn ferry]

My entire Party was dead most of the run.

Why didn't they just make the hair a quest reward? Why make it a drop? I hate competing with 23 other people

[gaunt star]

Mmos are supposed to be time sinks

[unborn ferry]

I rolled a 98 last run and STILL lost the hair to someone else.

[deft burrow]

Wouldn't be getting rid of dungeons @maiden lodge

[gaunt star]

It keeps u subbed

[deft burrow]

It'd be optional side content for mounts or cosmetics or gear

[maiden lodge]

Dungeons fill a place in the content loop.

[deft burrow]

and they still would

[maiden lodge]

No I mean in the main content loop.

[deft burrow]

Yeah, and that'd still exist the same as it does now

[gaunt star]

Why cant they just give everything away wah

[unborn ferry]

Nah nah, I dont mind working for stuff.,

I just hate it when it comes down to RNG

Cus that isn't working for it. Thats working for a CHANCE at getting it.

[gaunt star]

Yea?

[maiden lodge]

Savage dungeons though would be fine though.

[deft burrow]

Yeah

[gaunt star]

Thats any rpg, many good loots are rng drops

[maiden lodge]

But normal dungeons are too integral.

[deft burrow]

It'd be like a separate type of dungeon

[unborn ferry]

Feels bad when cosmetic only items are held to the same standard as the regular loot, though.

[gaunt star]

Never forget https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/423870

[deft burrow]

Lmao

[unborn ferry]

Can... I get those braincells back, Cine?

I kinda need them to keep farming for the Hair

[deft burrow]

[paper dagger]

Just draw the hair on your monitor using a magic marker. EZ PZ

[unborn ferry]

Cant. No space

I made a mistake in Word once.
Tipex'd it

[spiral mica]

why are people complaining about Diamond Weapon? I thought it was a pretty fun fight. Not very difficult, but still cool

[deft burrow]

Its aight

[severe brook]

i think it's that it felt less impactful compared to the other Weapons

[drowsy belfry]

speaking of dungeon mechanics, if 6.0 has more bosses like the 2nd boss of Paglthan I'll be happy

[maiden lodge]

DW was a servicable normal

It had a new gimmick, and it felt like it was using stuff from the previous weapons. I'm fine with this.

[drowsy belfry]

"Hey guys what if instead of a circle, it's a gate and you fight adds." whoever pitched this needs to get a raise

[severe brook]

you don't get the "WHAT THE FUCK" moment of Ruby or the "Oh shit" moment of Emerald

[spiral mica]

The EX sucks? Havent tried it yet

[deft burrow]

EX is fun

[drowsy belfry]

tbh Blitz that's just 3rd trial syndrome, all of em suck

[deft burrow]

Its just cruise chaser for 3rd phase which is pretty interesting

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, but... that's like... it turning into something something Zenos wouldn't do that either.

[spiral mica]

I guess this is true. But it was cinematically cooler than the other 2 imo

[drowsy belfry]

as in, Seiryu and Zurvan also sucked compared to previous trials in their respective series

[severe brook]

Zurvan and Seiryu had phase transitions and cool cinematics. I think that if Diamond had a big cinematic moment like that and less downtime in the fight people would like it more

it was overall more cinematic, though
with the battle being set in the sky

[maiden lodge]

eh. There was a lot of feedback asking them NOT to include a mid-cinematic.

[spiral mica]

yeah it was pretty rad. fighting a giant gundam on the back of another gundam in mid air

[severe brook]

fair enough. i kind of like the mid-cinematics; there's a charm in the old-style flashy animations and the mid-fight cinematics feel like the successor to those

[spiral mica]

what more do you want?

[maiden lodge]

Yeah but... 99 times?

And Diamond has downtime.... but you're still playing, you're responding to stuff, it's not like you're doing nothing and watching a movie.

[deft burrow]

I mean the whole design of Diamond Weapon's fight is cool and unique. The teleporters being a key part to the mechanics and even having to break tethers using the knockback from Diamond Ifrit to get to the other platform

This stuff is so cool and unique for an extreme

[gaunt star]

I take it that the trailer shot of the white figure by the lake with the WOL would be the final part of 5.5 then

[oak pike]

man zenos picking up his new weapon is such a tease

[deft burrow]

yep

[severe brook]

that was really sharp-sounding for a hammer, i have to say

[deft burrow]

yeah it sounds like a blade tbh with that sound

[maiden lodge]

Plus, for every person complaining that there wasn't an oversoul transition into some megabeast, there's two who would be complaining it's 'another zenos fight'

[gaunt star]

the best part is they know people would try and find it in the data so there nothing there

[oak pike]

also the idea of fandaniel going around collecting weapons from raids, ex fights, and tomb stone weapons is funny

[severe brook]

maybe the edges of the hammer's head are just very sharp

(/s)

[deft burrow]

Well we did find a scythe datamined @gaunt star

[gaunt star]

oh

[oak pike]

AF tool for botanist

forgot we on slowmode

[gaunt star]

lol

[viscid monolith]

Except that's bullshit because Emerald wasn't "another Gaius fight" and Ruby was a Nael fight but 80% of the people here didn't even do T9 legit.

[maiden lodge]

Naw, Emerald was just o9 and o10 if they had a fucked up flipperbaby

[spiral mica]

ruby EX was fuck all like T9

[maiden lodge]

Like I know swords don't look like hot tail

[viscid monolith]

It had some elements of it but yes it was different fight. That's my point though. Diamond wouldn't be "another Zenos fight" and the only people that would say so are irrational haters like some people.

[maiden lodge]

it's hot tail

[severe brook]

like me
(this is a joke)

[viscid monolith]

I just think Mecha Ifrit was not a good substitute for Oversoul

[spiral mica]

imagine if ruby EX was half as hard as T9 back in the day.

[maiden lodge]

Yeah but you also bitch about fights where you start in clock positions.

[viscid monolith]

But also where the fuck did Mecha Ifrit come from anyway?

[spiral mica]

yeah, that mid part with the robo ifrit was very weird

[deft burrow]

Cool mechanics

[viscid monolith]

Dis you're delusional if you don't think theoveruse Protean

[maiden lodge]

The mecha thing is Diamond Weapon.

[severe brook]

it's shedding the external armor and restructuring its endoskeleton to move faster

[maiden lodge]

The big fat boy is Diamond Weapon's shell armor

[viscid monolith]

They use it so much that at the start of every EX we do blind we just assign clock spots

And you knkw what? We're usually right.

[maiden lodge]

Yeah but they don't use it in Diamond EX so....

[severe brook]

because Diamond is designed to learn from the three predecessors, so it's being able to go between the Tanky Bulk of Sapphire and the Lithe Speed of Ifrit

[viscid monolith]

Yes that's a good thing

[maiden lodge]

And you don't use it on EM Ex if you do 4x4 soooo

[viscid monolith]

I applaud Ruby for being different in most ways. Too bad Mecha Ifrit jumps so often.

[maiden lodge]

Ruby's the speedyboi but I get y

[viscid monolith]

You know what I was too hard on Diamond it's a 3/5

[severe brook]

i mean ruby lmao

Diamond ate Lunar Ifrit don't you know, that's where it went

[viscid monolith]

I take away one point for Ifrit phase and 1 point for the music being kinda boring.

[severe brook]

the music would be fine for phase 1. i was hoping there'd be a phase 2 song of some sort

[crystal arrow]

I noticed there's a tower near ala mhigo lunar lakshmi or lunar rhalgr?

[late aurora]

Wasn’t Ifrit the first primal absorbed by Ult weapon?

[viscid monolith]

Ya

Ultima snapped Ifrit's neck and absorbed it

[severe brook]

that's the Gyr Abania one, which they mentioned was the most heavily guarded. it might very well be the one that made Lunar Bahamut

[viscid monolith]

Good cutscene. He also donutted Titan and ate Garuda's face.

[severe brook]

SHINEI TITAN — Gaius probably

[crystal arrow]

I don't think so, since they seem to pull their subjects from the surroundings and they explicitly say that meracydian dragons have to summon bahamut

[severe brook]

yes, but the Meracydian dragons were likely taken from Coils and/or Azys Lla, and Ala Mhigo is where Lunar Bahamut first appears

(only leaving Coils open in the case that one hasn't done Coils yet, in which case there'd still be dragons sealed in stasis down there)

(otherwise they presumably would all have been taken from Azys Lla)

[crystal arrow]

I'm fairly sure they implied they came from azys lla, because they said they couldn't get anymore thanks to tiamat

[high spade]

hallo
does anyone know the name of the song that plays during the final part of the werlyt storyline?
the one that, for reference, starts in this video at about 4:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMuWtmL0ivU

[spiral mica]

guess i have to do hte NieR raid tonight

[severe brook]

yeah, that's what i figured as well. i just feel like it'd make sense if the most heavily guarded Tower was the one that created their first and most powerful Lunar Primal

[spiral mica]

for someone that doesnt give 2 shits about nier lore, since i havent played it, can i just skip all the story and not miss anything relevant to 14?

[viscid monolith]

No idea. I don't remember hearing it before so it might be new.

[crystal arrow]

Maybe? Or it's heavily guarded because they're summoning rhalgr or maybe even lunar shinryu

[viscid monolith]

Yes it holds no relevance to XIV at all

[high spade]

i do remember it before, but i can't remember if i heard in shb or even prior to that 🤔

[spiral mica]

perfect, thanks

[paper dagger]

I mean... it's still a GOOD XIV related Story with waht happens with the Dwarves

[severe brook]

i have kind of considered Lunar Shinryu but also i hate myself for saying that

[viscid monolith]

Fights are cool. The story left me seething.

[paper dagger]

But yeah you're not missing out on any major XIV lore that I can tell.

[crystal arrow]

well I mean, it's clear they're using locals to create these tempered primals, so it'd make sense to be shinryu

[stiff charm]

it was first used in post sb i think? maybe post hw, it was the scene where you stargaze with alisaie i think. cant remember what its called though, only that its on the before meteor ost

[bold condor]

If I had to guess?

[crystal arrow]

Though, I secretly hope for lunar rhalgr because that could sure be a bastardization to ruin the morale of ala mhigans

[high spade]

oooh that's a good start to look for it thanks

[bold condor]

They're kidnapping beastmen specifically.

[crystal arrow]

Well, in most cases, but we don't know what's up with odin

[bold condor]

Probably took locals who fear the legend.

[crystal arrow]

Yeah, that's that I mean - it could be anyone with the faith to create a primal

[maiden lodge]

Well

[bold condor]

Keep in mind the system isn't working purely off of direct faith. Rather it's faith in Garlemald that is pushing them to summon their specific gods to defend Garlemald.

[paper dagger]

Twightlight over Thanalan seems to be the song @high spade

[severe brook]

shinryu wasn't shaped by Ala Mhigan belief, it was shaped by Ilberd in particular

[bold condor]

In the case of Odin, their faith in Garlemald would be pushing them to summon the Dark Divinity they fear.

[high spade]

no i'm sure it's not that one

[bold condor]

Also the Lochs one, if I had to guess, it just gonna be Lunar Lakshmi.

[high spade]

twilight over thanalan is imprintend into me since 1.0

[crystal arrow]

Well yeah, but that story could get around and others may start believing in shinryu as a symbol of freedom or rebellion or something

[bold condor]

And the tower is in the Lochs because of space and also to facilitate the Lyse cutscene.

I don't see a Lunar Shinryu... at least not here.

[gaunt star]

pain

[bold condor]

It's plausible that Zenos could create a Lunar Shinryu himself.

[severe brook]

it does feel like they're building up to something with the Gyr Abania tower, since they mentioned it's much more heavily guarded

[bold condor]

But not to control it, mainly to test us.

[stiff charm]

HA FOUND IT@high spade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_swJPS53RRA

[high spade]

OOOOOH

[crystal arrow]

I'm disappointed at the diamond copout and how we didn't get a mecha shinryu

[severe brook]

or just to drive us towards him, like a hunter has his hounds

[drowsy belfry]

mh speaking of Towers did Fanny just kinda heavily imply there's a Tower around Meracydia?

[high spade]

thank youuuuu i was spending hours looking for that lmao

[stiff charm]

i remember hearing it for the first time there and thinking "WOAH THATS A NEW TRACK" so i still remember it lol

[crystal arrow]

no? he took those dragons from azys lla

[bold condor]

imo Diamond should've been Zenos Oversoul and then Alfonse's Overmind should have un Goo-nos'd Allie during the second phase.

[tulip geyser]

I assume they're literally everywhere

[severe brook]

it might be the case, and maybe that's where Lunar Bahamut came from

but I interpreted it that he got the Bahamut-tempered dragons from Azys Lla

[maiden lodge]

Meracydian dragons are in a lot of places in Eorzea, just because of the fall of Dalamud, it's probably where they got the idea tbh

[gaunt star]

i didnt expect anything oversoul with the diamond weapon due to the nature of the story

[cinder badger]

Zenos' new weapons are windshield wipers. He wants to go Jackie Chan on the WoL

[bold condor]

I did, mostly because when you bring up someone as insane and powerful as Zenos and replace him with Alfonse you set yourself up for disappointment.

[crystal arrow]

that would've also been cool

[bold condor]

But if Alfonse is instead the cure to Zenos?

[maiden lodge]

And they're not just plopping towers down near beast tribes and going 'yay we win' they're also actively kidnapping beast tribes and dragging them to the tower.

[gaunt star]

inb4 Zenos uses nunchakus

[bold condor]

A thought occurs.

The tower is in the Lochs because it's far easier for Garleans to reach than the Fringes.

[high spade]

no wait it's similar but it's not, the struggle continues

[stiff charm]

whaaaaaat

[cinder badger]

Every time I keep hearing Alfonse I think of Alphonse Elric

[teal geyser]

Tower is in The Lochs because it makes for a better shot

[bold condor]

basically the same guy

[gaunt star]

[bold condor]

I think of Alfonso Ribiero.

[stiff charm]

IM SUPER DUMB ITS THIS
(second half)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsfB303YdVU

[cinder badger]

@bold condor you mean Carlton

[severe brook]

and then he dies during a terrible day for rain

[stiff charm]

starts around 2:52

[bold condor]

Honestly I have no idea what that theme is named because it's never been released.

[cinder badger]

@severe brook don't worry the rains will cease and we shall be braced with another beautiful day

[high spade]

oh right it's this one yes

[bold condor]

It's not part of "Eternal Wind - Shadowbringers" on the EP.

[severe brook]

the alternate timeline where Alfonse is able to live with being Diamond Weapon and just hangs around as Gaius' giant robot son

[high spade]

how come is the crystal exarch theme on werlyt

[bold condor]

Oh my god imagine Gaius playing catch with him

With Valens as the ball

[stiff charm]

it isnt officially exarch theme or anything, seems to just be a new "sad cutscene music" (its a real good one though)

[severe brook]

Woe! Valens be upon ye!

[stiff charm]

maybe released with ew ost pls

[cinder badger]

So if he is Alphonse Elric who is Edward Elric

[high spade]

ye i need to look into it more but at least now i know where i heard it before

[bold condor]

He's honestly more like Nina Tucker

[severe brook]

They Saved Alfonse's Brain

[hollow vessel]

That jump scare in the neir raid was great, also loved it was earned as it just got thrown in between the flickering static that had been happening the entire run

[maiden lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-juice-squeeze-juicer-spongeandy-gif-11800290

https://tenor.com/view/squeeze-grapefruit-gif-4867945

[bold condor]

Diamond Alfonse: Go long, dad!
Gaius: raises his arms but Valens is flung like two stories high and skips across a lake in the background

[oak pike]

valen really was like "I'll defeat you with this ipad"

[bold condor]

lmao yes

[azure garnet]

not surprised

[bold condor]

Finally, I get to be a jackass.

[dim sigil]

Rip good fending and maiming sets

[oak pike]

man i was kind of hoping we get papa nier clothes for tank gear

[severe brook]

people ask "what is a Garlean Red Mage like" and the answer is Valens

https://tenor.com/view/gundam-oh-no-im-a-genius-gif-20412333

[bold condor]

"I was to be Valens the Great!"
"Well now you're Valens the Grape." squonch "YEET"

[azure garnet]

yeah that would suit them more over this crap

[bold condor]

I just wish his name was as easy to meme as Yeetus Vanitas.

[azure garnet]

meanwhile im disappointed with ninja set from the new dungeon

its just... "dress" as always

[oak pike]

broooo what if papa nier for fending and brother nier for maiming

[bold condor]

https://tenor.com/view/yeet-kingdom-hearts-sully-monsters-inc-vanitas-gif-16884542

[maiden lodge]

Valens: You cannot defeat me, I have the video on your fight!
Gaius: I added a lighter to Heirsbane
Valnes: WHAT
Gaius: You only looked at the normal mode guide!

[oak pike]

lmmme load this 50 cal into my sword

i know its not a 50 cal