retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[floral aurora]

Sage fire weapons, ice weapons, electric weapons and moogle weapons...

SE come on

You know fans want this xD

[gaunt star]

Sage moogle weapons where each of the funnels have little moogles grabbing onto them

Or each of the funnels are moogles in general

Maybe they cant add the old primal stuff at launch, but if they added them later then that'd be nice

Flaming chakrams would be amazing =w=

[torpid yoke]

prob never gonna give them arr primal weapons

same with 6.0 jobs and HW primal weps

[gaunt star]

For $700 I will slap the diffuse from the arr primal weapons and add 3d bits to the sage weapon models

You will have to pay me more than the 3d laborers kept under SE’s basement

Inb4 the DSU Sage weps are just the scaevan Sage weps much like how TEA weps for dnc is just shire

Woah woah you thought they were gonna make them sage weapons! Nope only Shb jobs get weapons due to umbrellas taking too many resources

[maiden lodge]

Any time you add new jobs it exponentially increases asset development if you resolve to make gear for each level, or even just for primals.

For primals alone, ARR had 7*10=70 models it had to make brand new.
HW then had to do 7x3 + 13x7=112 new models.
SB then had to do 7x4+15x6=118 new models, even though it only had two new jobs
ShB would have had 144 new models if they hadn't decided to limit themselves.

[gaunt star]

Doable if they would actually hire people

[maiden lodge]

They do hire people, don't be disingenuous.

[gaunt star]

I guess they only people they consider have to simultaneously know how to write stories, 3d model, and make ultimates

[maiden lodge]

No, now you're being very disingenuous.

[gaunt star]

If they can’t do something as simple as hair or weapons, no they ain’t

Clearly there is a clog in the drain and sally the plumber is here to fix it!

[maiden lodge]

You say that as if that isn't actually some of the hardest shit to do in game development

'Developing assets is easy' says person who can't even code an excel spreadsheet

[gaunt star]

3d modeling isn’t hard you just have to be passionate

I just would've liked for TEA to have used the Alex weapon models, like how UCOB uses the Dreadwyrm stuff

Alex drk sword is

[next quarry]

^^

[maiden lodge]

Excuse me while I disregard your opinion on something you have no idea about.

[gaunt star]

Agreed

[torpid yoke]

They don't hire as many people because the coding is super complicated

[gaunt star]

Why dancer got shire weapons from Alex was a mystery wrapped in a conundrum wrapped in an enigma

[torpid yoke]

and by complicated i mean its shit

[maiden lodge]

No, that's not why.

[gaunt star]

Not complicated enough to stop me from figuring it out

alex drk sword is awful tbh

the whm cane i s very good tho

[maiden lodge]

They don't hire 'as many people' because the people they hire are put to more important shit than level 50 glowy sticks

[gaunt star]

I agree umbrellas are clearly the higher priority at SE now

[maiden lodge]

Cause that's the only thing they work on

[torpid yoke]

so you mod things client side?

[maiden lodge]

They've literally worked on NOTHING asset wise except umbrellas, ok

[gaunt star]

To this day I'm salty that dnc and gnb got shafted with those

I do all sorts of mysterious projects that I cannot reveal due to the CIA tracking!

[torpid yoke]

i mean

i didnt ask abotu your projects i asked if you mod your game client side

[maiden lodge]

Don't. They're talking shit they have no clue about.

[gaunt star]

I’m no client, I’m a manager baby 😎

I just want a moogle pld shield

Pink shield to go with pink sword

[torpid yoke]

then buy it

[torpid yoke]

ah great ok

[maiden lodge]

ARR was wierd with how shields worked

[gaunt star]

Meant to type shield

[torpid yoke]

i have a complaint abotu your workers

they dont know how code works and they shouldn't say it only takes passion

ty

[gaunt star]

A moogle shield would've been amazing

[torpid yoke]

i remember to this day they despise shields

[gaunt star]

But they make them look so cool

[torpid yoke]

because people like them for glamour XD

i also hate shields because they mess up my pld ilv

[gaunt star]

Pld glows are one of the best because they can have 2 different glows at the same time

Shields are for losers real men go in no equipment guns blazing

[maiden lodge]

'Well my bis is a one-hander but I'm replacing a two-hander so I need to go do an ex to get a shield.....' ugh.

[gaunt star]

Pld is the only class that can flex all 3 Ultimates atm

That’s exactly why shields and swords should be merged

I cannot stand people with two different glows

[torpid yoke]

bozja in a nutshell as a whm or blm

[gaunt star]

UWU sword, UCOB shield, TEA title

[drowsy ivy]

is large amounts getting deleted

[lament breach]

Please dont go so offtopic that I have to delete 200 messages. Thank you (:

[drowsy ivy]

oh shit

hi whale
I was reading those sir

[heady shadow]

oof

[somber storm]

[gloomy shale]

Do you think the new dps should be a support dps or selfish dps?

[turbid aspen]

selfish dps so i can see big numbers

[mossy flicker]

Can't imagine zenos using a support dps

[gloomy shale]

maybe finally something that can compete with SAM

[heady shadow]

dnc is already kinda sorta support dps

[gloomy shale]

yeah brd too

maybe it could be the DNC for melee

[subtle pasture]

Probably be a new DRG or NIN

[drowsy ivy]

Scythes are selfish!

[strange summit]

👀

[balmy mesa]

technically DRG is a support dps, so new melee wouls probably be more of a selfish role

[gaunt star]

i remember around SB release when Yoshi said DRG was support

really annoyed me

ah yes we are support because of... battle litany

[turbid aspen]

wdym i can use eye of the dragon on other party members?

[gaunt star]

this was before eye of the dragon was actually decent enough to use, and around SB release

on SB release EotD had a range of around 5 feet

so it was literally useless

[open verge]

Expansion skills are usually useless at launch

[gaunt star]

i mean, not really

Dragoon was literal dogshit

[open verge]

Yes really

[gaunt star]

i don't remember going into HW or ShB thinking "Wow my class is unplayable"

when it came to Dragoon

[open verge]

my job has gotten useless expansion skills every expansion

[gaunt star]

Dragoon literally couldn't use their main new mechanic in any dungeon on release

[open verge]

Welcome to the club

[gaunt star]

You couldn't get dragon eyes before the boss was dead, couldn't save them between pulls, eye of the dragon was a useless skill if you had ranged people, or any other class

[open verge]

[gaunt star]

I mean Monk is shit for different reasons, Stormblood dragoon just didn't function

[open verge]

That’s what I mean

Most jobs need a patch to make new skills work

Shoha,nascent flash

A bunch of other shit but I’m too lazy

[dull lake]

7.0 we travel to the sun

[terse mortar]

but where do u travel after sun tho

[balmy mesa]

there's always outer space, or the new world

[cold wave]

Personally I do hope they'll make DRGs BotD just a passive skill at this point.
It having a duration was interesting when Geirskogul took seconds off it, but at this point it just feels like a button to press every 25 seconds when not in combat just to keep your stacks

Until you get a transition and you lose it anyway

[pulsar yacht]

I would prefer they figure out of jump skills are supposed to be an asset (mobility, proccing life of tje dragon) or a liability (animation lock, only one jump counts to get stacks, backflip of death)

[gaunt star]

only one jump counts to get stacks

this was the best change in ShB to dragoon

Spineshatter also proccing Mirage Dive made the opener a genuine mess

High Jump being the only thing to proc it, while LotD needing only 2 eyes to activate makes it feel that much smoother

Whereas before Jump and Spineshatter proced it, but you needed 3 to activate LotD. This meant during your opener your spamming ocgcd stuff at detriment to how the class feels. But ShB Dragoon takes the same amount of time to go into LotD while also making the rotation feel smooth

Also Elusive Jump is only "backflip of death" if you use it incorrectly

It's the same with jumps tbh, if you know what you're doing they won't get you killed unless you're just unlucky

i've never had a jump kill me doing extremes or savage when it wasn't my fault

[balmy mesa]

I'd like to see a decent AoE jump combo (I miss crown of thorns, that line AoE sucks)

[pulsar yacht]

I thought of unlinking wheeling and fang with each other and raiden but having a hard time justifying it other than getting rid of the 3rd combo/positionals for raiden, with longer main combos (not sure this is an increase in fun)

[gaunt star]

The base combo for Dragoon is fine

I could see them adding a trait to Life of the Dragon that changes those attacks to something different while you're in Life

[balmy mesa]

yeah

[gaunt star]

Like increased potency, or a different stacking dot on Chaos thrust

[balmy mesa]

I reckon reworking geirskogul to be part of the normal AoE combo while in BotD would be alright

[gaunt star]

Put Stardiver on a 2 charge

Geirskogul is fine, you use it while aoeing and single target already, no need to change it

[balmy mesa]

I also wouldn't mind seeing dragoon get a bit of a speed increase in certain conditions

[pulsar yacht]

Part of me suddenly gets the dumb idea of making geir/stardiver like xenoglossy as reward for maintaining blood a certain amount of time

[balmy mesa]

like gradually increasing charges the longer you hold botd?

[pulsar yacht]

And consume stacks, not a stance skill

Yeah and charges can stay in case blood is forced off to unskippable cutscene

[gaunt star]

Id rather they just add more things that Life does, rather then rework what we have again

[pastel coyote]

Maybe add a skill huh how to describe it.... you know those who proc from time to time

It could break a bit the routine

[pulsar yacht]

In order to add skills another will have to go on the chopping block since theres a limit can do before being problematic to controller users

[royal spruce]

I wish they would let me pre-order EndWalker

[viscid monolith]

DRG is the most cohesive and well made jobs in the game next to Black Mage. It doesn't need any overhauls to make it easier.

[royal spruce]

I can't wait to get my third pair of exp earrings

[pastel coyote]

Well my point wasn't to made it easier but to add some fun in it

[gaunt star]

Its already fun?

[pastel coyote]

There aren't any.... rng factor in it

I could litteraly play it will sleeping

[balmy mesa]

I do, however, think it needs something more in its AoE for earlier levels

[gaunt star]

Good?

[pastel coyote]

Something alike the brd or dnc on some part

[gaunt star]

Jesus christ no

[viscid monolith]

Every job doesn't need RNG

[balmy mesa]

dragoon does have that raiden thrust proc

[gaunt star]

Dancer procs make it 8000 billion times more messy to play

[pastel coyote]

dancer have too many rng that's the issue

[viscid monolith]

God I remember when they gave Monk those stupid RNG procs that no one asked for.

[pulsar yacht]

Not sure rng to melee would make it fun but thats just me. Changing it to monk or dancer but with a pointy stick would be a 180 from what it is now identity wise

[balmy mesa]

I quite like the position-based aspect of monk

when you go between the forms

[gaunt star]

Dragoon is currently in its best state, we don't need overhauls or RNG added to it. Just make Life change other skills to do new things, traits to change abilities

Etc

[balmy mesa]

I just want AoE skills earlier - traits could fix that (by bumping potencies)

[gaunt star]

Even something like: "Life of the Dragon resets the cooldown on Spineshatter Dive"

Simple stuff that doesn't change the class too majorly

[gaunt star]

Bring back ring of thorns

[balmy mesa]

yes the pole spin

Doom Spike at 40... and you're expected to spam that til 62??

[pastel coyote]

Hmm there isn't any skill who work like a charge right ? Like: no target / move ahead / deal some dmg ?

[teal geyser]

Damn right baby

[balmy mesa]

spineshatter/dragonfire are the only closers atm, and they require a cooldown

[teal geyser]

dragonfire is more than a closer to be fair

it is actually an aoe

[balmy mesa]

yeah, it's a nice skill

[teal geyser]

but it is a very long cd

[balmy mesa]

if they had a trait to reduce the cooldowns at say, 82 or 84 it'd be alright

[gaunt star]

im expecting traits to upgrade Dragonfire or Spineshatter at 81 ~ 90

[pastel coyote]

Cause i wouldn't mind a "charge" skill once you use elusive jump

[royal spruce]

I wonder what the pre-order minion will be this time

[gaunt star]

... holyfire dive

[balmy mesa]

moonfire dive

[royal spruce]

I'm calling it now we get a wind-up Moon as the pre-order minion

[gaunt star]

small thing i kind of like, expect is for them to add yet another step to Blood of the Dragon, but in Hresvelgr colours

[pulsar yacht]

Inb4 fusoya

[balmy mesa]

so platinum?

[pastel coyote]

Well the new skill will probably "light" related cause i don't think we have one linked to hraesvelgr

[gaunt star]

i imagine it will be Cecil

[balmy mesa]

Cecilfire Dive

[gaunt star]

whatever colour he is ye

[royal spruce]

I'm interested to see the collector's edition Mount to I wonder what it will be

[pulsar yacht]

Giant of babil

[royal spruce]

Maybe in 6.0 they'll finally give us the cape version of Odin's outfit I love to see that

[teal geyser]

lol no

Never capes

[royal spruce]

sadge

[pastel coyote]

We didn't see the new gear for dgr right ?

[balmy mesa]

I do think they'll add another skill (like they did with Starfire Dive) for blood of the dragon, we could call it... Hraesvelgr's Wrath?

[gaunt star]

nope

[teal geyser]

Why Hrae angry?

[gaunt star]

im hoping the new gear is holy dragoon themed

[balmy mesa]

why not ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[teal geyser]

Hrae sad boy only

[gaunt star]

Normal Ass Dragoon > Kain > Richard Highwind > Whatever the fuck the Pteroslaver stuff is > Holy Dragoon

[balmy mesa]

okay, fine, Hraesvelgr's Sadness

[gaunt star]

lets go baby

[balmy mesa]

jump up, grab a meteor, ride it back down to earth

[pastel coyote]

Joke but maybe it will be that https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5a/9b/6a/5a9b6a6e41c5a8b4f4cdefa5b5a79a80.png

[balmy mesa]

get dragoon to summon a meteor or something, ride it

[gaunt star]

give us a dragon pet for the offhand slot

[balmy mesa]

speaking of offhand slots

it would be interesting to see the new job use offhand also

it'd be something different.

[pulsar yacht]

That would be nicer than making controller users play another job but not sure they are willing to double down on pet jobs (beyond current use in trust programming and some skills)

[pastel coyote]

it's a scythe, there isn't offhand

[balmy mesa]

hammer and sickle

[pastel coyote]

and the only acceptable off-hand for a scythe job is... an other scythe

[balmy mesa]

so like small scythes

[royal spruce]

I wonder who will be getting the collector's edition weapon glamour Sage or this new melee DPS

[balmy mesa]

but it's probably gonna be mage-knight

[pastel coyote]

pld

[royal spruce]

I doubt Paladin they always give the collector's edition weapon to the brand new job one of the two

Is there any well-known Scythe weapons in Final Fantasy that they could put in for that?

[balmy mesa]

they put in one for DRK, afaik

which doesn't mean anything really, cos PLD got a gunblade weapon too

and we have gunbreaker

[pastel coyote]

Well i don't remember any scythe related job in any ff

but i don't remember any sage with funnel either

[teal geyser]

I remember there was like, two I guess

One was a big strong one from FFXI

and I guess you have Sice's scythe from Type-0

[cold wave]

Apocalypse from XI 😋

[royal spruce]

i see

[teal geyser]

^ that's the one I think

[balmy mesa]

okay, so FFV has a scythe (and it's technically classed as an axe, wtf)
FFXI DRK used scythes
FFXIV BTN uses scythes (lel)
FFTA has a scythe (but it's classified as a mace)

[teal geyser]

FFTA stinks

[balmy mesa]

FF Type-0

Tezcatlipoca?

[royal spruce]

Wouldn't that be funny if the botanist scythe is the collector's edition Scythe glamour for the new Scythe class

[pastel coyote]

and then the job isn't reaper but farmer

[royal spruce]

[balmy mesa]

and then they power up to combine harvester

wholesale slaughter, boys

[cold wave]

Matches well with Dragoon who uses a pitchfork

[pastel coyote]

actually there is a scythe-job who come to mind but it's from an other licence

harbinger

[pulsar yacht]

Theres eddas scythe but thats glam only

Ferdiad had them too but as an attack animation

[royal spruce]

Or it could be for sage but I don't know what they can do for sage since it's an original weapon

Maybe 4 flying machinist weapons

Pre-order now to unlock the musketeer class

[cold wave]

Part of me still hopes we're wrong about it being a scythe though

[royal spruce]

[cold wave]

I want a hammer 😅

[royal spruce]

i see

Well we don't know yet but I'm still leaning towards scythe

I wonder if the second trailer will reveal the full uncovered map of the three great continents

[teal geyser]

It fucking better

It's been soooooo long

[royal spruce]

Isn't there a command to bring that map up

[teal geyser]

!faq worldmap

[lusty shadow]

Hydaelyn world map translated by Rommy 🌎

Image URL: https://i.imgur.com/JTbvskE.jpg

[royal spruce]

Yeah they better get rid of all those clouds

It's a cool

[teal geyser]

I hope the theory that the city is Abdella is true

Because this expansion deserves as much Ilsabard as it can get

[royal spruce]

weres that

[teal geyser]

It's in Landis

It's talked about in the newest Bozja stuff

[royal spruce]

Oh

[teal geyser]

An industrial city that has returned to normalcy post occupation

[royal spruce]

Oh yeah I never asked where the hell is the southern front on this map

[cold wave]

Such a shame Rabanastre is in ruins, would have loved it to be an actual city

[teal geyser]

It's a bit hard since it's under clouds but it'd be somewhere around the anchorite at Corvos, the issue is Corvos isn't part of Bozja but Bozja has to be squeezed right next to it

Soo

It's just gestures vaguely there

[royal spruce]

Aren't people leaning towards the big city being in sharlayan

[teal geyser]

Well

[royal spruce]

And I see so we can't see it yet

[teal geyser]

A lot of people want to see Sharlayan

But anyone who wants it in 6.0 is a fucking idiot

This is THE Ilsabard expansion

You can't just have 1 Ilsabard zone

[royal spruce]

If that's what you think they better lift those clouds

[teal geyser]

You can basically put Sharlayan into any other expansion

And I think it'd be a really good one for 7.0 coming fresh into a new story

Sharlayan and Ilsabard both deserve the space they deserve

And whacking them together is an awful idea

[cold wave]

Whacking anything together is awful, look at Ala Mhigo and Doma

[royal spruce]

It seems like if that was the case will be flying everywhere over the map

We're going here here here here here all different parts of the world

[teal geyser]

I'm already 80% sure Origin is going to be an area we go to in-game

so we have like

[royal spruce]

So you think we're going to start thavnair and make her Way North

[balmy mesa]

I fully expect Landis to be one of the zones

[royal spruce]

are*

[teal geyser]

Radz - hub
Abdella - city (hopefully)
Thavnair - area
Garlemald - area
Origin - area
Moon - area
maybe a mystery final zone - area
Second Ilsabard zone (maybe just Landis) - area

[teal geyser]

Yeah tbh

[balmy mesa]

what about that horribly-named city

[teal geyser]

Nhalmasque?

[royal spruce]

Wouldn't the moon be the final Zone

[balmy mesa]

M... somethin

[teal geyser]

[balmy mesa]

not in order

[teal geyser]

^

It's not in order

but there might be a final zone past that to be fair

I find it very suspect they are being very upfront about the moon

[royal spruce]

Who knows maybe we'll get more than six new zones

[balmy mesa]

Mannatheihwo

[teal geyser]

Both HW and ShB deliberately hid their final zones

SB didn't

[untold gull]

inb4 final fight is in carteneau

[teal geyser]

but SB's final zone was never going to be something weird anyway

[balmy mesa]

SB had a "split plot"

[cold wave]

In before the moon comes crashing down again

[teal geyser]

EW's final zone is definitely going to be hidden from us

I'm so sure of this

[untold gull]

well, i mean, it has a hole in it. and it's gonna be at the very least a zone.

[teal geyser]

The moon cannot be the final zone

[wary perch]

HW didn't hide about final zone in trailer though

[balmy mesa]

aetherial sea

[royal spruce]

I mean where the hell can the final Zone be if it's not the freaking Moon

[teal geyser]

okay UP TILL the gameplay trailer

[untold gull]

underground?

[balmy mesa]

AETHERIAL SEA

[teal geyser]

It was until until the gameplay trailer they teased Azys Ila

But we aren't even there yet

[cold wave]

Final zone: a fully rejoined source

[balmy mesa]

they said something about going underground, no?

[teal geyser]

and it's already "moon this moon that"

[balmy mesa]

in the New Year's teaser

[wary perch]

Moon probably will have two zone

Outer and inner

[balmy mesa]

which (oh shit maybe that's why they revealed Anima)

cos you get that fucked-up city of the dead vibe

[untold gull]

i don't think they did. though they did mention about the final days and people speculated its relation to the sound from deep beneath the earth

[teal geyser]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/VbgXx8p8HpNMbatXih-f1cCiyv91e9iWfdpW_PrAcqQ/%3F1609205204/https/img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/68da0fa739022487e9b08d1e01421165c807086a_0.png

[balmy mesa]

remember the bozja solo instance for RW?

[royal spruce]

I mean what the hell is there going to be on the moon it's a moon I don't expect there to be a lot of stuff on the surface

[untold gull]

oh yeeeeeah, i forgot about htat

[teal geyser]

I think uh

taking this

and applying this to a new zone is a little suspect

[balmy mesa]

this whole fucked-up appearance?

[teal geyser]

but I can't deny that it's at the very least possible

[wary perch]

@royal spruce never underestimate a moon in fantasy setting

[royal spruce]

Maybe the final zone is somewhere back in time

Wouldn't that be fun if we do more time travel

[teal geyser]

Well....we know the moon has structures at least

[wary perch]

@balmy mesa that's cid inception about bozja

[teal geyser]

For example we saw a statue of Zodiark on the moon

[balmy mesa]

yes, and it's entirely possible they could do something similar for the final zone

if it's underground

[untold gull]

saw?

[teal geyser]

Yes

There is a Zodiark statue on the moon

[untold gull]

where at

[teal geyser]

it's like, partly buried

[royal spruce]

So are you expecting the moon to hide some type of underground Society

[gaunt star]

Probably

[balmy mesa]

because when you think about it, stuff they do in previous patches leading up to the expansion tends to be more experimental in nature

[wary perch]

@untold gull through datamine viewer

[teal geyser]

This'll do

[cold wave]

Wouldn't be the first time a moon hid something

[balmy mesa]

the bozja incident was... definitely experimental

[teal geyser]

Pretty sure you don't need datamining

[balmy mesa]

to see what they could do with the map

[teal geyser]

Just a keen eye

based on the cutscene

[royal spruce]

Because when it comes to the Moon I think about what happened in Naruto the last movie in that movie The Moon had like trees grass water everything underneath the surface

[balmy mesa]

cough Majoras Mask cough

[untold gull]

i can barely see details on that

[balmy mesa]

idk if you played Majora's Mask, but the moon was like ||this weird pocket dimension on the inside||

[royal spruce]

Wouldn't that be cool if between now and the expansion launch the moon slowly gets closer and closer to us

[teal geyser]

No

[balmy mesa]

it seems to be a fairly common trope in Japanese story telling

[royal spruce]

I played a Majora's Mask

Why not the moon coming closer would be cool

[balmy mesa]

I had fucking nightmares about that damn moon when I was 10

[teal geyser]

was?

had?

[balmy mesa]

yeah I got over it

[royal spruce]

I'm also thinking there has to be some type of evil third-party right that's going to be the final boss right

[untold gull]

pls no

[teal geyser]

You know I'm not sure

[untold gull]

pls no pls no

[teal geyser]

They might save that for 7.0+

[balmy mesa]

actually no the original N64 version was worse

[royal spruce]

I think it's going to be whatever cost original final days

[teal geyser]

If there is it'll be that yeah Rose

[royal spruce]

Because it has to be something

Cuz something cast the ancients to lose control of their creation Magic

cost*

[untold gull]

fear was at least part of it

[royal spruce]

I could be remembering this wrong but wasn't there some type of noise or something like that

[untold gull]

yep

[royal spruce]

I think the final boss of this next expansion is going to be whatever the source of that noise was

[balmy mesa]

these weird areas could be commonplace on the moon

big floating blobs

[untold gull]

sound from beneath the earth. whatever it was spooked the ancients. but for a race of people very closely monitoring their use of magic, there's definitely more to it than what was said. you don't lose that kind of control that easily when your civilisation is built upon that magic.

[balmy mesa]

I just hope that they learnt from HW map design though

like, what not to do

[royal spruce]

I think that's what the 14th was looking for in those final day I think they were looking for whatever the source of that noise was

[untold gull]

well, i mean, didn't ps3 still available when HW was released?

[tiny wind]

hey the bgm is sick tho

[balmy mesa]

ye

but fuck those moogles

[tiny wind]

true

[balmy mesa]

BUT at the same time

an area like this

[tiny wind]

i only recently finished the moogle tribe and wanted to kms

[balmy mesa]

lots of detail

[untold gull]

that's the speculation since azem never joined with the convocation nor venat's party. though i can't remember if they mentioned in venat's cutscene about azem going somewhere - gotta watch it later

[royal spruce]

Yeah

[balmy mesa]

if they can pull off setpieces like this (like with Amaurot)... endwalker will be great

[untold gull]

they probably could now

[balmy mesa]

they can, just need to work on textures

[untold gull]

have you not seen 4k bread?

[royal spruce]

Since they refuse to join either side I think they went off to find whatever this source of this noise was to find a third solution that didn't involve sacrificing any more of their people

[balmy mesa]

you can see the tiling

[teal geyser]

Still lowkey think Azem would have joined Hydaelyn's group if his friends didn't all join Zodiark

[royal spruce]

Who knows maybe we'll get Echo flashbacks with azem to figure out what the source was

[teal geyser]

For sure going to get Azem flashbacks while talking to Hydaelyn or Venat or something

[royal spruce]

Because who knows how close they were to finding it

[untold gull]

before hydaelyn dropkicked zodiark, you mean?

[tiny wind]

are we gonna kill both hydaelyn and zodiark 🤔

[balmy mesa]

nah I think he just wanted grapes

[royal spruce]

Such a nice fate for azem to not believe in either side but still get put under mother Crystal control

[gaunt star]

Doubtful

[untold gull]

honestly, it's...weird. hydaelyn is essentially the planet now and zodiark is born as the will of the star so that's...very complicated to say the least

[gaunt star]

Rocky marriage

[untold gull]

very

[tiny wind]

why don't we just become a god 🤔

[balmy mesa]

zodiark and hydaelyn are like divorced parents and you're the child they're fighting over

[untold gull]

see, i feel like we'll be powered by people's prayers at some point in this expac

[teal geyser]

I think Hydaelyn is going to stop existing but we aren't going to kill her

[tiny wind]

the genkidama approach

[royal spruce]

I was thinking about it but if we kill zodiark wouldn't that cause an imbalance

[teal geyser]

Not necessarily

maybe

[untold gull]

that one line in the slide talking about the prayer made me think "are they really gonna turn WoL into some kind of primal?"

[teal geyser]

by this logic Zodiark's summoning should have done that by itself Rose

[balmy mesa]

we may have to have some eorzean rave parties... 🤔

[untold gull]

i dunno what genkidama is

[teal geyser]

spirit bomb

[gaunt star]

Spirit bomb

[untold gull]

oh

see

[royal spruce]

hmmm

[gaunt star]

Shame on you

[untold gull]

i have never seen it in japanese. only in my local language or english.

so i never knew the name

i was thinking something close to okami ending - people's prayers got ammy her full powers back

[teal geyser]

Damn

imagine having to listen to the bad DBZ dub

[untold gull]

oi, tagalog dub is actually damn awesome

[tiny wind]

i gotta replay okami its so good

[untold gull]

also, english isn't bad. i can't stand japanese goku dub.

[teal geyser]

At least it isn't Sean Schemmel

and is actually a nice human being

and also the dub made Goku some sort of superhero for some reason

[untold gull]

huh...weird

[teal geyser]

What?

[untold gull]

nuffin, nuffin

too late to delete it, i'm going back and forth servers

[teal geyser]

I'll give you one thing though

there was one good thing the dub gave us

https://youtu.be/H1QKyB_0P0E

[vernal haven]

[exotic copper]

hammer job

[gaunt star]

Hear me out for a second: maiming dps

[torpid yoke]

it most likely will be a maiming job

[gaunt star]

Oh I know

[floral aurora]

More curious what the job will be called than the weapon they will use now

[torpid yoke]

name barely matters imo

more curious its "gimmick"

[gaunt star]

Name sets a theme ngl

[quick talon]

The new class can use their scythe in the farming minigame

[floral aurora]

Only thing I think it can be is Berserker, Rune Fencer, Necromancer or FFXIV Exclusive Job

[spiral mica]

berserker is already in hte game. its called warrior

necromancer is stupid, and will never be a class in 14

[unborn basalt]

what do you think the melee dps will be?

[teal geyser]

A unique scythe job

[unborn basalt]

liike a reaper?

[teal geyser]

My hope is that it'd be like Sice from Type-0

also no not like reaper

[spiral mica]

what it SHOULD be is mystic knight. what it probably will be is a job unique to 14

[teal geyser]

I'd classify reaper as just "necro"

Which is a no no

[teal geyser]

I'd rather MK not be a scythe user thoughhhh

I agree otherwise

[torpid yoke]

i still cant think of mystic knight concept that would be interesting in 14

[spiral mica]

honestly, i feel like if they waste the maiming slot on something that isnt mystic knight, then we are never getting mystic knight

[unborn basalt]

doesnt a necro raise dead and reaper send people to their deaths?

[torpid yoke]

we have mystic knight though

dark knight :D

[strange wing]

Dork Knight

[teal geyser]

idk, you could probably do a more swift kinda one as scouting but I agree that the kind of rune knight/mystic knight I'd envision wouldn't happen

[strange wing]

Pls give Dork Knight more buttons to press SE

[teal geyser]

That's all "death" in general

[torpid yoke]

necromancer could cause problems in certain parts of the world

[spiral mica]

why does anyone think necro will ever be a thing? makes no sense even

[torpid yoke]

so they wouldnt use the name necromancer

most likely

[teal geyser]

because EDGE

and SCYTHE

[spiral mica]

k

but

[cold wave]

They won´t use anything related to raising the dead as zombies

[spiral mica]

like

[teal geyser]

It shouldn't even do necro things

I'd be fine with like, dark magicks of some sort, but nothing like that

[spiral mica]

necro has never ever been a thing in FF, outside of 1 instance where it was a pointless bonus class

[teal geyser]

but dark so far as it's astral

[teal geyser]

*as playable

[spiral mica]

also, in 14 specifically, pet jobs suck balls

it goes against established lore

[forest magnet]

please don't be a pet job

[spiral mica]

and they literally said they werent gonna add it

[torpid yoke]

you can make a pet job that doesnt use the pet system they have in place

[teal geyser]

Speaking of pet jobs

[spiral mica]

so i dunno why anyone keeps saying fucking necro

[teal geyser]

DRG needs a dragon companion

[unborn basalt]

so no beastmaster?

[torpid yoke]

but would if be a pet job if you did that

[teal geyser]

That's different

[cold wave]

If we´re going with dark magic, I'd prefer something like the Absorb <stat> spells from DRK in FFXI

[floral aurora]

Beast Master would be awesome but I doubt it

[forest magnet]

Like if you summon zombies to fight for you

i don't see how that's any different than Summoner playstyle wise

[teal geyser]

I'd just about accept that too but I'd be very concerned about the lore about it

[torpid yoke]

bloodbath

[teal geyser]

The lore would have to be written very carefully for me to be okay with "absorbing" things from people

eg

no "I'mma steal your lifeforce baby"

"because I'm a necro"

[spiral mica]

.......abyssal drain?.....

[cold wave]

It'll also have to be really carefully done not to seem too much like DRK.

[spiral mica]

soul eater?

[torpid yoke]

i miss sole survivor

[spiral mica]

this is aleady a drk thing

[exotic copper]

Incoming drk apologists

[torpid yoke]

r.i.p my baby

[spiral mica]

FUCK ME TOO

i loved that skill

[teal geyser]

Sole survivor was cool

[torpid yoke]

it was great

[cold wave]

I forgot that skill even existed

[torpid yoke]

shameeeee

[teal geyser]

Scourge

sole survivor

powerslash

dark passenger

cool skills

[spiral mica]

sole survivor was one of the few DRK skills that felt skillful to use properly

[torpid yoke]

eh dark passanger was ok

i like flood of shadow better

[cold wave]

Shame we didn't get to keep our own animation when we got Rampart

[spiral mica]

shadowskin

yeah agreed

[teal geyser]

dark passenger was a cooler animation by far

[torpid yoke]

eh

[teal geyser]

It was just shit in gameplay

[torpid yoke]

scurge and power slash though

my babies

[floral aurora]

Love Gunbreaker

Oh sorry DRKs

XD

[torpid yoke]

love how gunbreaker

[teal geyser]

some design choices for jobs have always baffled me

[torpid yoke]

took my fckn dot

[floral aurora]

Lmao

[teal geyser]

like removing the powerslash animation entirely or REMOVING WIDE VOLLEY BUT KEEP THE OTHER BARD AOE WHY SE WHYYYY

[torpid yoke]

they wanted the ranged to have cone aoes i guess

even though dancer has a circle

[teal geyser]

Except dancer doesn't

There is no excuse

[torpid yoke]

dancer also has to be upclose to hit theirs though

granado shot made more senese though >:/

IS MY GUN A PISTOL OR A AR

MAKE UP YOUR MIND

[forest magnet]

doesn't bard have a circle one too

[torpid yoke]

not anymore

[spiral mica]

they really should make DRK have a 4 move combo, they can bring back the power slash animation, and further differentiate drk from the other tanks

[torpid yoke]

its coneal

4 part would be cool

just dont put a dot in the 4 part since it adds nothing

[spiral mica]

yeah, dots as combo skills are only good if you have branching combos

[gaunt star]

Bring back rampart

Or wait

Shadowskin

Bring back shadowskin

[torpid yoke]

not really

[gaunt star]

Take away rampart from drk

[spiral mica]

remember dark dance? the most worthless CD ever?

[torpid yoke]

dragoon has a dot that really never falls off

[spiral mica]

yeah, because their two combos are so fucking long it lines up perfectly lol

[torpid yoke]

what they should do is do what they do with gunbreaker and ninja and make it its own action

gee GNB why does yoshi-p let you have TWO DoTs?

[spiral mica]

i mean, most classes have a dot that never falls off, if you are playing right

[gaunt star]

Jesus christ no

Thats genuinely a fucking awful idea for dragoon

Their dot is fine where it is

[torpid yoke]

im not talking about for dragoon

[gaunt star]

Okay good

[spiral mica]

DRG is pretty damn excellent the way it is

[torpid yoke]

they are gonna mess it up in EW

[gaunt star]

Please do not change Dragoon

[torpid yoke]

like they will with blm

[gaunt star]

They messed up dragoon massively in SB

I don't know how they could go any lower

[torpid yoke]

what was wrong with it in SB?

[gaunt star]

Oh boi

On release DRG needed i believe it was 5 Dragon Eyes to go into LotD

If not it was 4, which is still shit

Eye of the Dragon had a 5 feet range

Blood of the Dragon had a 30 second cooldown rather than 25, meaning you would lose Eye stacks during downtime

[torpid yoke]

they needed 3

[gaunt star]

At the end

On release

You needed more

It wss impossible to get onto Life during a normal dungeon boss

Unless you had them prepared and the tank didnt stop

[spiral mica]

thank god i never played drg much at all during SB

that sounds quite gross

[gaunt star]

It made me main samurai for all of SB

Switched back for ShB cause its pure sex

But even when they reduced it to needing 3 eyes it felt awful

Cause you would be spamming ocgds so much during your opener it fucked with the overall flow and feel of the class

Im so glad its reduced to 2 and only Jump gives

Same amount of time to go into Life, but feels better

[cold wave]

I actually dropped DRG in SB after maining it in ARR and HW. Just couldn't deal with it. Only got back into it recently

[woven escarp]

you can tell whoever worked on stormblood drg was a pld main in 3.0

"fuck this job having effective skills and being good at what it does"

[maiden lodge]

it already is

I'll tell you what happened when it had a seperate dot to maintain.

You used Phlebotomize after Chaos Thrust/CT's 4th follow up every single time.

So your rotation was in ARR: Ht->ICT-> Phleb-> TTTx2 and in HW: Ht->ICT4->Phelb->TTT4 rinse repeat. Adding a weaponskill into a job with checks a fucking 5 step weaponskill combo means that weaponskill can only be used after the fifth step. So, congrats, your 10 step static weaponskill rotation is either an 11 step static weaponskill rotation or the dot is not good enough to use and nothing changes.

In other words... shit doesn't change enough to matter.

Stop suggesting they make jobs play like shit to accomodate forced dot maintenance for no actual playfeel gain

This brought to you by the 'No, Red Mage, Dancer, Warrior, and Machinist do not need dots just because you want to 'change shit up'' committee.

[subtle pasture]

If any of 'em did, it'd be like Bow Shock or reworked Shadow Fang

[torpid yoke]

i wasnt talking about dragoon

[viscid monolith]

Why does GNB have any dots at all

[torpid yoke]

will never understand why people want red mage dancer and mch need dots

two out of the 3 casters already maintain a dot

[viscid monolith]

This is why I hate dots. Most of the time they're just stupid filler skills with no mechanical relevancy

[maiden lodge]

Sorry dude, can't read your mind, if you don't tell us what you're talking about if it's not dragoon, we're going to assume that you're following up on what you did actually say brah

[subtle pasture]

Oh I forgot about Sonic Break too

[torpid yoke]

dis i literally responded to altani right after saying i wasnt talking abotu dragoon

[subtle pasture]

tf Bow Shock is a clone of uhhhh

[torpid yoke]

literally had to read a few more messagaes ahead

[subtle pasture]

PLD, aoe dot,

[torpid yoke]

gnb took my scourge

[subtle pasture]

Circle of Scorn

[maiden lodge]

You never said what you actually were talking about so... maybe you should clarify that, brah

[torpid yoke]

im not doing this dis

[viscid monolith]

You just use Sonic Break and Bow Shock once a minute under the damage buff. They don't even last a full minute. They just fall off.

Waste of hotbar space

[subtle pasture]

bc they're CDs, but that means you don't need to juggle 100% uptime

same vein as Shadow Fang

[maiden lodge]

It's for playfeel--for tanks that want their tank to feel like a dps job

Super-busy-ogcd-tank-go

[viscid monolith]

At least make it a 100% uptime dot or something

[torpid yoke]

nah

[maiden lodge]

Then skillspeed feels bad.

[torpid yoke]

must be down

[maiden lodge]

I mean, worse than it already does

[viscid monolith]

The other dot I hate is Higanbana

[subtle pasture]

bc Bow Shock's also some snap aoe in dungeons

[torpid yoke]

but that can be maintained with 100% uptime?

[viscid monolith]

Isn't a dot the opposite of snap aoe

[maiden lodge]

It can be both.

[viscid monolith]

It is but it also lasts 60 seconds so I forget it exists from time to time

[subtle pasture]

Fortunately for tank oGCDs, they still have decent pot up front

[maiden lodge]

Sam has a static rotation, just do the same thing every 60 seconds.

[subtle pasture]

...Oh Bow Shock is just Better Circle of Scorn

120 pot up front to a 35 pot dot, to 200 and a 90 pot dot

[torpid yoke]

gnb is just better pld Kappa

two dots? check

das it

[subtle pasture]

oh 60s CD vs 25s

I can math

[torpid yoke]

same reason why drk is just better warrior

[maiden lodge]

Paladin is for people who want the two weaponskill combos and two dots of GNB, but also want both the fellcleave spam phase of warrior and the bloodspiller spam phase of dark knight at the same time

[subtle pasture]

but they

[torpid yoke]

pld gets it first

[subtle pasture]

god I can't wait for this new keyboard

[torpid yoke]

warrior is copying pld

[subtle pasture]

but they're also getting ~a new shield swipe~ in 6.0

[torpid yoke]

possibly

[maiden lodge]

Swell Cleave

[subtle pasture]

or shield bash II I guess

the firey one WoL uses on that dahak

[maiden lodge]

Watch it just be the old one they used to have

[torpid yoke]

it was kinda just shield swipe

seriously though why do people think dancer needs a dot

[maiden lodge]

They could even leave on Pacification, the most useless status effect in the game

[torpid yoke]

useless on bosses maybe

[maiden lodge]

Some people like to stick dots on jobs they never play and don't understand and think it makes the job good.

[viscid monolith]

Is it too much to ask that they redo PLD's casting animation

[torpid yoke]

what casting animation?

pdl go brrrrr

[viscid monolith]

It's stiff. Makes my back just looking at it

[maiden lodge]

Useless on any mob--it never lasted long enough to stop a weaponskill, and weaponskills tended to be instant anyways so you couldn't interrupt them, even if you did have it available from blocking.

[subtle pasture]

I could see something weird like adding a dot when feathers are spent to lean you into spending them for uptime

instead of holding them for any burst ever

not that DNC doesn't already have plenty plates to spin

[maiden lodge]

Which would feel bad, and defeat the purpose of having feathers stack to 4.

[torpid yoke]

Feel especially bad when you have ninja trick during your non opener florush

[subtle pasture]

RDM could do a CD dot, maybe throw it on a Contre Sixte upgrade and call it day

likewise with MCH, I guess

give Drill a lacerate component and, done

[maiden lodge]

60s cooldowns should line up with 60s cooldowns, if they don't, someone goofed.

[maiden lodge]

Eh, C6/Fleche is designed that you DON'T line it up with your burst.

Because your burst doesn't affect them

[subtle pasture]

right, so just a standalone, near worthless dot to ~spice it up~

[maiden lodge]

I guess, the job's got enough ogcd shinanegans to do as is; there's no room for anything more in the ogcd department in the opener.

A DoT wouldn't add anything--it'd just beg the question 'Why isn't this just a flat potency'

[torpid yoke]

warrior i can understand why people would want a dot though since they atleast used to have one

[maiden lodge]

It was shit though.

'Look, a dot with the same potency as Skull Sunder let's goooooo'

I think Monks were the only ones who cared about Fracture.

[subtle pasture]

Yeah was gonna say, MNK had fun with it

[torpid yoke]

i cared about it

in potd Kappa

i memed a lot in potd

[cold wave]

Am I the only one who really dislikes DoTs? If I had the choice I'd remove them entirely

[light pendant]

is the patch live

[polar star]

Yes

[light pendant]

how come I can't log in

[echo hinge]

probably RMT

[rough kestrel]

Because it's 9 hour maint

[dreamy bane]

Maint is not over until 7-8 hours

[light pendant]

😭

[unreal wadi]

patch notes where

[ashen sluice]

when yoshi-p sez so

[foggy trench]

Full notes not out yet

[crimson pollen]

No relics yet, right?

[ashen sluice]

nope

[foggy trench]

Prelim notes are up on the lodestone though

[ashen sluice]

not until 5.55

[crimson pollen]

k

[oak pike]

hi 5.5 waiting room

[soft maple]

Heh

[crimson pollen]

Wonder if will the final relics already be datamineable or gonna ave to wait 5.55 to know how they look, indeed

[ashen sluice]

who knows? only yoshi-p knows

[maiden lodge]

Me: 'oh shit someone's having a spicy conversation about dots on jobs I should give my hot take'
also me: 'oh wait that's me, shit'

[pulsar yacht]

relic stuff will probably not be in 5.5 data other than maybe zone data if they are generous

[ashen sluice]

i've never understood why people care so much so early about how something looks when they can just preview it properly in game later on.

[dim sigil]

Obligatory is patch notes drop yet x 200 posts

[ashen sluice]

but i'm not into glamors or looks that much so i guess i don't really care lol

[light pendant]

not into glamours?

[ashen sluice]

i usually have one outfit and i stick to it lol

[light pendant]

Me too actually, but I'm still really interested in new glamours

[versed hill]

We never know

5.3 relics did leak super early

[deft burrow]

Insert have 5.5 patch notes dropped yet comment

[light pendant]

The 5.5 patch notes dropped!?

[ashen sluice]

yes they're available to everyone but you lol

[light pendant]

Can someone post screenshots so I can read them?

[half phoenix]

Relics will be 5.55 with Zadnor

[ashen sluice]

https://tenor.com/view/joke-dumb-you-dont-get-it-gif-8906259

[vale elm]

have the patch notes been datamined yet

[pulsar yacht]

i wish

[light pendant]

No one is posting screenshots.

[terse mortar]

seeing as patch notes isnt up on website and cant download yet doubt they can datamine it

[balmy mesa]

I'd say the patch would be up in about four hours
so we can pre-download

[torpid yoke]

I DID THE SAME THING XD

[terse mortar]

yeah

[versed hill]

have the datamine be patch notes yet

[wind bough]

The patch is not available for predownload yet so there is nothing to datamine

[hollow mica]

They said youd be able to download PS5 beta during maintence 😦 That is a no go

[pulsar lagoon]

maintenance barely started an hour and a half ago. We won't get patch notes or download until at least midnight EST

[versed hill]

I'm so proud of patch notes coming out 🤧

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, give it time, it'll probably be up when they throw the switch. They'll do it at the same time as they push the PS4 update.

[light pendant]

What is the most exciting part of the patch?

[balmy mesa]

the datamining

[maiden lodge]

It existing on time.

[light pendant]

I'm excited for the high res ui.

[coral thicket]

has anyone been able to datamine the last step of the bozja weapons?

[crimson pollen]

the shining fella, we gotta who it is -_-

[balmy mesa]

no
not yet - 5.55

[coral thicket]

oh

[maiden lodge]

What... praytell... would they data mine, exactly? You need data to mine.

[coral thicket]

oh

I thought it was something that was done a while before the actual patch

[versed hill]

no lol

[maiden lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/johnny-carson-hat-gif-7853282 This is not what datamining does.

[versed hill]

sometimes it leaks but we got nothing so far

[coral thicket]

oh alright

time to wait another 8 weeks then

[maiden lodge]

Not necessarily

Just... don't ask for datamining before the data is there to mine

[coral thicket]

fair enough

[maiden lodge]

If you don't have the patch, dataminers don't. Be patient. It will be soon.

[light pendant]

SE should give dataminers special early access

[coral thicket]

im only asking once

[maiden lodge]

seriously that should be stickied

[coral thicket]

wait, is this a common question?

[maiden lodge]

Yes

[last perch]

probably already been asked but eh , what do you guys think the WAR buffs are gonna be?

[foggy trench]

10 pot on storms path

[coral thicket]

oh I didn't know that as I dont frequent on this discord server

[gaunt star]

Its only damage buffs

[maiden lodge]

Someone literally asked 3 minutes before you

[coral thicket]

oh...

me bad for not scrolling up

[pulsar yacht]

20pot on upheaval. please dont look forward to it

[maiden lodge]

Then four minutes before that

[last perch]

You think its nothing but potencys?

[gaunt star]

I dont think so. Yoshi said it

[foggy trench]

They said only minor damage buff 'within 1%'

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, it's just potencies. They're not going to change gameplay.

[pulsar yacht]

since it's 2% tops increase to war and drg it's not likely to be aanything mind blowing

[maiden lodge]

Just a minor tweak to make them a bit more desireable.

[gaunt star]

Yeah they are "just there" buffs xD

[deep blade]

idk why even bother with a buff if its 1% dps change

[last perch]

I cant think of anything else myself that war would really need bar maybe splitting raw/flash , but for change like that now seems weird , so i doubt its that , or thats even on the table till 6.0

[deep blade]

literally would rather have nothing than just 1% lmao

[gaunt star]

Theres nothing major happening to classes till 6.0

[coral thicket]

splitting inner chaos from fell cleave would be nice

[maiden lodge]

They only do major gameplay changes to jobs between expacs when jobs have major gameplay issues. War doesn't, really.

[gaunt star]

Removing war would be a good fix

[foggy trench]

I mean they have access to all the stats at SE if they think 1% change is all thats needed to make everything balanced then thats fair

[last perch]

lol

[proper frigate]

Feel like this would be worse actually

[gaunt star]

Generally most classes atm seem balanced or good enough

[coral thicket]

how so?

you lose potency when you hit infuriate during inner release

[maiden lodge]

It won't change your rotation or gameplay.

[maiden lodge]

Then don't do that.

[proper frigate]

Extra button where one doesn't need to be, and if you're using Infuriate during Inner Release then you aren't doing it right

[gaunt star]

[proper frigate]

[foggy trench]

Tbh ff14 job balance it much preferable to Wow/blizzard flavor of the month balance where your class is either broken good or broken terrible depending on the time of the year

[coral thicket]

that would be fun to see

[maiden lodge]

It wouldn't be fun, it'd just take a vector for misplay out of the job.

the capacity to misplay your rotation is an important design principle in this game, it makes skill matter.

[coral thicket]

fair point

[deft burrow]

Classes are so balanced because they are more homogeneous than WoW's classes

[foggy trench]

Fun to watch people on the internet argue maybe but not fun to grind a class to max with full gear and not be able to use it without getting yelled at by some other internet person

[maiden lodge]

Ehhhhhh.

[gaunt star]

WoW classes suck

[light pendant]

I think they should buff WHM by giving it a spell like Faith or Bravery

[coral thicket]

how would that work?

[proper frigate]

War is kinda difficult to misplay honestly, unless you're just superbad or pot boosted and didn't read a guide

[gaunt star]

I think they should give BLM Ultima

[maiden lodge]

WoW's classes are designed around a different raid structure

[proper frigate]

2% damage up for 10sec on a 180sec cd

[coral thicket]

Fair. It's mainly just one of those things which feels nice to have I think

[viscid monolith]

Blue Mage will steal Ultima from BLM just like it stole that attack rush from Monk

[oak pike]

150 seconds gotta have weird timing

[deft burrow]

Classic WoW had more class impact since if you needed a priest and your priest isn't online... Ur not raiding

[gaunt star]

@viscid monolith pain

[viscid monolith]

What is Suzaku's tank buster called?

[deft burrow]

Its good and bad tbh

[proper frigate]

[gaunt star]

Simp Girlfriend Buster

[torpid yoke]

phantom flurry

[maiden lodge]

Eh. WHM is in that wierd place where it's overrated but because more people play it, you can't really say it's overrated.

[proper frigate]

Whm is just an easy healer to play

[viscid monolith]

Ya. Phantom Flurry could have easily been a Monk skill at any point over the last 10 years

[foggy trench]

Its the best healer for dps im pretty sure

[light pendant]

I've heard people say that WHM is bottom of the barrel right now

[proper frigate]

In return you don't have much else to contribute besides healing

[coral thicket]

flare spam?

[deft burrow]

WHM is the least played healer in terms of parses for savage content I believe

[coral thicket]

really?

[viscid monolith]

No. WHM is always the most played healer

[proper frigate]

Whm at least has DPS tools, unlike the other healers

[foggy trench]

Glare, assize, presence of mind, afflutus

[viscid monolith]

All the healers have dps tools

[proper frigate]

DPS tools that reward healing, no less

[crimson pollen]

The only thing that matters is if you playing a lala or not

[proper frigate]

Sch has: Broil.

[gaunt star]

Theres always atleast one WHM on every savage ive seen

[maiden lodge]

Yeah but it could do that because with 25 people you can actually build a raid around one specific class's narrow utility.

You can't do that in 8man groups.

On the other hand, because of the 25-man-ness you have to hard cap battle rezzes and individual performance is more diluted in the crowd.

In 8 mans, battle rezzes are an important part of the game's balance, and individual performance is emphasized more.

[proper frigate]

Astro has: Malefic.

[foggy trench]

I was just gonna say except scholar lmao, ast has card minigame

[gaunt star]

Scholar? Broil Mage?

[coral thicket]

i dont get the memes and shittalking with scholar

[maiden lodge]

They do not reward healing.

They make healing less punishing.

[torpid yoke]

astro buffs other people for their damage

[gaunt star]

Cause whenever i do 8mans or 24mans the scholars don't heal

[maiden lodge]

It still costs you potency to hardcast a heal as a WHM.

[severe brook]

ah, the spoilers channel has opened. it has begun

[echo hinge]

It rewards you for using lily heals smart

[oak pike]

aint misery a dps loss since its 4 gcd

[maiden lodge]

Using lilies smart is to not use lilies and let your co-healer hard cast.

[viscid monolith]

The smart way to use lilies is to use them as little as possible

[pine epoch]

IT HAS BEGUN!

[maiden lodge]

Or use them durng boss downtime

[gaunt star]

Nothing has begun until servers go up

[proper frigate]

My point was going more in line with personal DPS/"rotation", aka Afflatus Misery. Other healers don't have that same buildup -> damage, which feels satisfying imo

[torpid yoke]

thats the feel of whm. The feel of ast is supposed to be different than whm

[maiden lodge]

Other healers have more tools to weave their actual healing kit. An AST can weave between Malefics, so it doesn't get punished to use its healing kit. A SCH gets a ton of healing just passively, and can use Ruin II to weave--which by the way, is the same potency loss as using Afflatus.

[proper frigate]

True, but it would be nice to see healers get more growth in the DPS area like that, since actually healing kits are pretty well filled-out by now

[foggy trench]

Every healer getting 1-2 more damage buttons would be nice just for some variety

[echo hinge]

Hoping Sage has good dps stuff

[proper frigate]

I'm not well versed in actual healer numbers/efficiency, I mainly just want more damage buttons

[cinder thunder]

the healers desperately need mini dps rotations that arent the exact same lul

[maiden lodge]

The problem with WHM is that it has so little it can weave. Once you use Asylum, and Assize, you're done for AoE ogcd healing. Once you use Bene and Tetra, you're done for single target ogcd healing.

Afflatus isn't rewarding you for healing. It's your consolation prize.

[light pendant]

Isn't it actually a damage potency loss to go after Afflatus Misery?

[maiden lodge]

Yep.

[proper frigate]

Maybe less a reward, more compensation for doing so. My wording wasn't quite right

[cinder thunder]

afflatus misery is a loss in single target and a gain in aoe, assuming it's used when you could cast pure damage instead

[echo hinge]

If you need to heal anyway you may as well make progress towards afflatus

[proper frigate]

I'm not a healer main, I just play it for fun/when needed, so this actually helps to hear

[maiden lodge]

The problem with WHM's 'compensation' is that it needs it because it runs out of tools so fast.

[cinder thunder]

afflatus misery can be treated as a burst version of 4 225 potency mobile attacks

[echo hinge]

P sure its only a dps loss on the first two lilys anyway

[torpid yoke]

just make afflatus ogcd :D

[cinder thunder]

compared to 4 glares, afflatus misery is a dps loss in single target

[coral thicket]

what exactly makes it a DPS loss?

[proper frigate]

WHM doesn't really have much room to weave without delaying GCD though, unless that just isn't an issue

[cinder thunder]

900 potency for 4 casts vs 1200.

[coral thicket]

you mean to get the lilies up first?

[cinder thunder]

yes... that's what the skill is :p

[coral thicket]

ahh yea fair

[proper frigate]

Burning lilies just to cast Misery is no bueno

[maiden lodge]

Contrast earthly star with asylum. Earthly star hits for more, and has a 60s cooldown. Asylum has 90s cooldown.

But, AST also then has Celestial Opposition, which also does the same job as Asylum... and has a 60s cooldown.

[coral thicket]

true

[proper frigate]

Ast has so many cool tools, my fave healer

[gaunt star]

https://www.strawpoll.me/42934903/r I made a poll, place your bets

[cinder thunder]

if you're trying to maximize damage you can and should treat afflatus 4 spell combo as 4 separate 225 attacks, slightly stronger than ruin II on Scholar

[maiden lodge]

So AST gets its asylum equivalents three times as often.

[light pendant]

This is why WHM should get a Faith/Bravery buff they can either use on themselves or hand out to someone in their party

[echo hinge]

I vote everyone but its fake

Because its been fake since the end of HW :^(

[cinder thunder]

whm doesn't really need an aoe buff right now but if they nerf glare sure

[maiden lodge]

That doesn't solve its problem, in that WHM makes the other healer worse when grouped with it.

[echo hinge]

Give sch better aoe pls and thank you

[cinder thunder]

WHM primarily needs more mobility options, it has less than BLM I think?

[maiden lodge]

Why does WHM Glare Mage? Because it's out of tools and the other healer is not, and that if it comes to casting, a Glare is more expensive to give up than a Broil or Malefic.

[gaunt star]

my bets on lyse,thancred and bahumuts waifu

[proper frigate]

I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you elaborate please? I'm interested

[maiden lodge]

So WHM comes out as better than it is--when it's actually a liability compared to AST/SCH

[maiden lodge]

Easy. Glare is more expensive to lose than a Broil. So if the option comes between a WHM glaring or a scholar broiling you should let the WHM broil and the scholar cast

[echo hinge]

I'm making the whm cast

[maiden lodge]

So WHMs do. SCHs lose dps uptime because that is optimal and so WHM's numbers are padded when, in terms of RDPS, they actually lower rdps by existing

[echo hinge]

You get an ogcd and the rest is on you buddy 👀

[proper frigate]

This makes so much more sense, thank you!

[maiden lodge]

And any co-healer that says the WHM should give up Glares is sacrificing RDPS for epeen, and that's not relevant to a balance discussion

[deft burrow]

don't even think of having the whm lb3 cause their potency loss is higher than ast and sch

[maiden lodge]

The trick is either to give WHM more OGCD tools, or make Afflatus potency neutral, to make up for the loss in healing from the lack of OGCD tools.

[proper frigate]

Potency neutral?

[maiden lodge]

Yeah.

[echo hinge]

I.e. same as 4 glares

[oak pike]

have misery be a full refund

[proper frigate]

Oooooh

[cinder thunder]

Afflatus is probably getting a single target version at 1200 potency, or maybe a 100 potency attack in the spell line for a similar effect.

[deft burrow]

Or do the less popular idea and nerf Glare

[echo hinge]

I think making the whole afflatus toolkit ogcd would be the easiest solution

[maiden lodge]

Yeah. You could even get away with making it give MORE than 4 glares, and suddenly you're creating gameplay around healing and actually rewarding using afflatus to heal--which has its benefits and would change the WHM rotation meaningfully without adding a single dps button

[maiden lodge]

Nerfing glare doesn't make WHM suck less.

[deft burrow]

No, but it does help with its detriment to Ast and Sch

[cinder thunder]

glare doesnt really need a nerf unless they give whm a raid buff

[maiden lodge]

Yes, you can't make SCH look shit when you're on the bench.

People think WHM is good, you actually don't want to ruin that perception

[cinder thunder]

It's pretty good

[oak pike]

WHM does it job

[cinder thunder]

It doesn't need to be completely in line with rDPS to be good

[maiden lodge]

It's... the worst of the three.

But in a way that people refuse to accept it is--which is 'fine' I guess.

[proper frigate]

In this case, good = beneficial to bring to the raid instead of a different healer

[cinder thunder]

And? Why is it relevant that it's the worst rDPS if it's also the easiest to play?

It's meant to be baby's first healer

[maiden lodge]

It's not a matter of being the worst rDPS, it's a matter of having noobtrap mechanics

[proper frigate]

This is more of an optimization discussion, in casual play it matters 0%

[maiden lodge]

And it's not bad in rdps in a way that makes other play better.

[gaunt star]

why are people voting on fandaniel in that straw poll for 5.5 when he's in the endwalker trailer?

[cinder thunder]

Freecure needs to go and Afflatus needs more spells yeah, but WHM as a whole is still good, and it's popular for a reason

[maiden lodge]

In this case it's not.

WHM being where it is has lead to a perception that scholar is bad, even though scholar is objectively better. This is not good design.

[drowsy ivy]

I was gunna say this only matters to people trying to eke out the smallest amounts of rdps wherever they can.

[maiden lodge]

Job A shouldn't make Job B worse to play by existing with it.

[maiden lodge]

No, that's not the take i'm going with it. It's not a matter of optimizing WHM. It's a matter of it acting as a detriment to another job's play to the point where people actively think that other job is worse.

People shit on Scholar because of WHM

[cinder thunder]

People shit on Scholar because it has no identity now, mostly.

[deft burrow]

It will soon