retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[regal lantern]

Scythe is pretty original for a FF playable job

[gaunt star]

Not for mmos in general though

[regal lantern]

But if you mean like Sage, then even flying swords aren't original, its heavily Gundam inspired

[gaunt star]

Moreover, I don't see how you can include scythes without alluding to death and stuff of the like

and I'm sure they want to avoid such themes as they are reluctant to have a necromancer

[regal lantern]

A unique weapon for MMO, that'd take a lot of hard work. I get what you mean but so far the hints points to Scythe... as for death and stuff... the hints are pretty biased towards Death and Grim Reaper so... 😅

[gaunt star]

weapon would fit with the biopunk theme of the trailer

that much I can agree with

[tulip geyser]

I always think more this guy than more traditional grim reaper anyhow
https://soulcalibur.fandom.com/wiki/Zasalamel

[gaunt star]

They can go the route of making the scythe a farm tool like it originally is irl

won't be the the coolest backstory 🤷

[strange summit]

I'm hoping for a scythe but anything cool and good looking will do

[strange wing]

I hope its as cool as Nouliths

As in they are more like switch weapons from Bloodbourne than just regular ass scythes

[gaunt star]

chain scythe

[teal geyser]

If it's just a Sice job I'd be happy

[gaunt star]

this is the new job

mark my words

mark my words it will be lowkey golbez based

if Zenos is the new job, and we are Cecil, going from Dark Knight to Paladin, in an expansion about towers and moons

then Zenos is Golbez

[strange wing]

I can dig it

[gaunt star]

and if Zenos is Golbez

Fandaniel is Zemus/Zeromus

Which means:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/3/30/FFIVPSP_-_Zeromus_Sprite.png/revision/latest?cb=20110619163842

Fandaniel boss form

[gaunt star]

I’m down for it

[strange summit]

I'm 100% behind this

[forest magnet]

Fandaniel as a whatever that is

Zenos as Zeromus

and the Sound as Lavos

[tulip geyser]

Fandaniel= Zeal?
Kinda brainwormed by the Sound for some time?

[forest magnet]

I mean I already have the basic outline for the story down

we go to different areas to pass 'trials' Zenos sets up for us to make us stronger for the final battle

we kick his butt

then we kick the sound's butt

and then we marry emet selch

the end

[glossy vale]

What Shadowbringers should've been.

[severe brook]

Abdella is an industrial city that, in the years since Garlemald conquered Landis, has since returned to a happy normalcy.
I found our Big City for 6.0
it's one of the major locations in Landis.

[exotic copper]

hammer job

[forest magnet]

ppl already headcanon the emet selch wedding shit so

[turbid aspen]

what

[forest magnet]

u know what i said

but to clarify

ppl think emet selch and azem were married

[next quarry]

friendship means nothing to some people

[heady shadow]

friendship doesnt exist

only horny

[random ravine]

i feel like, for 6.0 they should reward above-and-beyond performance in dungeons with additional rewards

ie gil, poetics, or some special currency

[unique verge]

That'll never happen

[random ravine]

why not

this will further encourage teamwork and good behavior

[unique verge]

because it would establish "good" vs. "bad" performance. and SE has a hardcore stance of not telling players they're shit.

[random ravine]

it odesn't have to be broadcasted or anything

just a personal message

no one but you would know how well you did

[unique verge]

That doesnt change what i said.

[random ravine]

no, but it would address the concern which is harassment, isn't it?

that's why SE is so against parsers

and performance feedback

[unique verge]

If anything it would make it worse.

[random ravine]

how so

[unique verge]

Today, if DF matches me with a shitter, they just get dragged to victory anyway and i get the reward i signed up for.

In your scenario, if DF matches me with a shitter, i may get screwed out of the reward i expected. Meaning im likely to be much more hostile towards the shitter in question.

[random ravine]

well you would go into the duty only expecting the stated rewards for that duty, ie you wont get penalized for "under-achieving"

anything on top of that is just a bonus

[unique verge]

That's not the attitude the playerbase would take

Ive seen systems like this in other games, and the "minimum reward" is never whats expected

[random ravine]

i mean, when you do a duty, do you expect to get the first time completion bonus every time?

that's just an example

you get paired with a first timer or you get paired with a shitter...it's all jsut rng

[unique verge]

Yes, but first time bonus is different. Its unimportant and barely even registers.

If you add a "special currency" or similar like you suggested

[random ravine]

doesn't have to be a spepcial currency then. just gil, froe example, something that you already have a million ways of acquiring

[unique verge]

the expectation will become "a group of 4 people who arent just pressing random buttons or have shit-tier GCD uptime should get the bonus"

[random ravine]

well it could be a scalable bonus

for example...the average completion time for this dungeon is "X", completing a dungeon in X-y time gives y * 100 gil, or something like that

just throw in a bone to encourage people to play better

because otherwise people have liittle motivation to improve, unless they want to do endgame savage content

[white rose]

Well, content isn't made to be challenging... so people aren't expected to need to do better as long as they clear. People play the game for various reasons and not all of them are for endgame raiding

There's just too much expectation on a player if they were rewarded based on their ability to perform

Plus, new players are more likely to be harassed

[viscid monolith]

Snack the fact is Yoshida is against telling people they're shit. Or even implying they aren't good.

Good vibes only

Even if it's a shallow lie

[orchid slate]

Just want to toss in my 2 cents to the discussion here. I've just comeback from a very long hiatus and last time I played FFXIV and was doing end-game content I cant tell you how many people told me I was bad at this game or got everyone to kick me and than harass/tell others never to invite me.

Shortly after I stopped playing

[subtle pasture]

I just don’t see the point in bonuses beyond first time and adventurer in need— other than making adventurer in need more tempting

[orchid slate]

If there was more of a pull, maybe a reputation grind it'd help queues go faster for lower-end content?

I think I spent an hour trying to get into an Odin group earlier today

[subtle pasture]

...even though I guess balancing out the roster with a fourth healer will only make AIN flip more I suppose

[white rose]

You mean commendations? Ehhhhhh

Or you mean beast tribes?

[viscid monolith]

That's pretty bad but also an outlier case. Also what is endgame content in this context? In anything Extreme difficulty or higher there's a minimum performance expectation.

For reputation grinds there are beast tribes and custom deliveries

You could do Squadron Missions too

All of this is solo content

[woven escarp]

squadron missions 😔

the one job I'd want to do squadron missions with I can't

[wheat skiff]

whats a squadron mission?

[white rose]

You mean the thing I abandoned after I got all my emotes from it?

[wheat skiff]

oh the one in the guild nvm

[subtle pasture]

“There is toxicity around the mere notion of underperforming” isn’t much of an outlier, anyhow

And yeah the most Devs will go in that front is SSS

[orchid slate]

Squadron Missions, Ive never done those, I have to be at a certain rank to do that with my cities guild right?

[subtle pasture]

...can’t remember last time I’ve done one of those tho

[unique verge]

SSS is so trash

[woven escarp]

SSS is a good benchmark but it's not totally indicative of the performance you'll get from someone

since a dummy parse is different from having to do mechanics

[white rose]

Thr only way to prevent underperformance is really to have a specific clear cut guide on the job itself. HoN expanded would help but isn't feasible

[woven escarp]

more ways to practice mechanics in a vacuum would be helpful too

since SE uses a common dictionary of raid mechanics now

[subtle pasture]

Esp when the top damaging classes also demand the highest uptime

[woven escarp]

buff guildhests you cowards

reeeee

[subtle pasture]

Make an SSS that throws out the basic aoes and baits I suppose

[woven escarp]

guildhests are better for individual focus on single mechanics

[unique verge]

SSS needs "friendly NPC's" more than it needs that, imo

[woven escarp]

like the ward up hest

all you have to do in ward up is do the fucking mechanic correctly

having four dipshits in ward up shows you why raiding is so hard in this fuckin game

[random ravine]

what is SSS?

[oak pike]

stone sky and sea

the dummy dps thing

[viscid monolith]

@woven escarp SSS at least needs a mode with basic aies or something

[woven escarp]

guildhests REEEEE

[random ravine]

yea i dont understand the point of guildhests

why do they make rewards negligible

[unique verge]

Guildhests are more likely to be removed from the game than "fixed"

[woven escarp]

guildhests are intended to introduce you to mechanics

but they just stopped doing it after the level 50 ones

[random ravine]

isn't that what hall of the novice is for

[woven escarp]

not realy

hall of the novice is for like, "maybe you should dps when you don't have to heal"

[unique verge]

Hall of the novice is like "hey, dumbass, you should press buttons. also dont stand in the incredibly obvious stupid"

[woven escarp]

removing status effects or positioning enemies for specific things are mechanics

[random ravine]

do guildhests introduce stuff like stack markers and proximity markers?

cuz really the only mechanics guildhests introduce are dont stand in this aoe

[woven escarp]

no, because they stopped releasing guildhests after level 50

the last raid mechanic that was done in a guildhest is ward up

because there are a few raids where you have to kill adds at the same time or Bad Things happen to you

[mint herald]

What is that Benchmark thing that they do before every new expansion?

[woven escarp]

the character creation/benchmark tool won't land until august, probably

assuming we get one

[unique verge]

A bit less of a reason for one this time around since afaik the system req's are being updated at all

[woven escarp]

no new race, no drastic changes in hardware requirements

very little chance of new hairstyles in the base chargen

[unique verge]

They'll probably still do it anyway just out of habit / marketing though

[woven escarp]

ye

a flyover tour of radz-at-han, if I had to guess

and maybe a flyover of garlemald

[unique verge]

Probably just Radz-at-Han

[mint herald]

Oh that is just to visit new areas before the release?

[woven escarp]

I think they'll do garlemald for a "combat" scene

like stormblood's flyover of the battle in the fringes

[unique verge]

Garlemalds soon-to-be-state of "smoking husk" is probably too "spoilery" for them

[woven escarp]

which didn't actually happen until ghimlyt

[rain onyx]

The Benchmark is basically a super intensive cutscene to see how well the game runs

Also has a character creator in it and lets you see the newest sets of job armor on your character

[woven escarp]

chargen is a bit less valuable this time around because there's no new races

[gaunt star]

Did the SB benchmark trailer have one of the world bosses in it? Kinda like how SHB had Arcaeotania

[woven escarp]

unless SE adds more viera/hrothgar hairstyles

[rain onyx]

I don’t think SB showed off Ixion or the Fox

[woven escarp]

I vaguely remember seeing a guard scorpion in the benchmark?

[gaunt star]

The EW benchmark will have Anima in it so that'll be hype

[woven escarp]

not likely, anima is probably a major boss

[unique verge]

We dont really know what purpose Anima is going to serve in the expansion, so no reason to have any expectation of it being in any trailer/benchmarks

[rain onyx]

I mean, they announced Titania and she was in the benchmark

Just don’t take the location of bosses and the boss itself as facts

[gaunt star]

And they always announce the 73 trial first and then the 78 one

[woven escarp]

I mean, I guess they could chump anima like that

and make him the 83 trial

[rain onyx]

Both primals/trials they announce during the fan fests are generally the leveling ones

[gaunt star]

Would you rather them chump anima as the 78 trial and make him only give accessories?

[unique verge]

Its also completely possible that the formula will change this time because of the whole "resolve the whole story in 6.0" thing

[gaunt star]

Now we can get anima weapons

[rain onyx]

Either way, I don’t really see anima being more than a trial

[unique verge]

There may be need for more trials than in past expansion X.0's

[rain onyx]

I really hope she’s not a dungeon boss

[woven escarp]

anima feels a lot like an end of days boss

[mint herald]

Oh, like a stress test?

[woven escarp]

just from aesthetics

[rain onyx]

Yep

A terminus creature can still be a beefy trial

[mint herald]

Console players doesn't have that lol

[rain onyx]

Depending on how they go about it

Console players don’t need one

The game will always run for them

[woven escarp]

you don't have a choice in hardware

[gaunt star]

Clearly anima is the primal of those weird elephants in Thavnair

[mint herald]

Indeed

[gaunt star]

The resemblance is uncanny!

[woven escarp]

so console players get the same performance

[mint herald]

And I haven't had any problem with FF14 in console

I hope I can get ps5 to enjoy those short load times

And 60fps

[rain onyx]

I got my PS5 recently and it’s comfy as hell

I did DR yesterday with all battle effects on and it was silky smooth

[mint herald]

I need to get one, but there isn't ps5 anywjere 😭 😭 😭

[rain onyx]

I followed this guy to get mine https://twitter.com/mattswider?s=21

Matt Swider (tracking PS5 restock) (@mattswider)

Managing Editor @TechRadar. I report on tech that changes people's lives. Deep thin🤔er. Travel the 🌎. Started writing pro at 14. Now 36. Tracking PS5 restock!

Tweets

5838

Followers

82628

Twitter

He’ll announce whenever specific stores get new stock

Tip: bundles sell out slower than the console by itself since scalpers don’t find those as profitable

[unique verge]

No surprise there. All of the profit motive is in flipping the console itself, anything extra that comes in the box has no secondary market value or is at best flat

[woven escarp]

especially games

extra controllers you can get the value of the controller from it

but games are worth nothing without someone who wants the game specifically

I'm surprised that people aren't desperate enough to eat the inflated bundle price anyway

[gaunt star]

There’s hardly anything on ps5

[woven escarp]

hasn't stopped people from paying 50% over MSRP for them on ebay

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I like how sony's big brain strategy is to keep making FFVII an exclusive

[forest magnet]

yup

[unique verge]

Its somewhat reasonable. Most of the fanbase who will actually pay money for FF7 again is already going to be within that bubble OR willing to enter it purely for FF7. So why not maximize value for the initial releases.

[royal spruce]

I wonder if we'll ever go back to the West shroud

[woven escarp]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not interested in paying $750 for a PS5 just to play FFVII

I can wait 5 years for them to release the whole thing on PC

[forest magnet]

there's ppl defending that decision to put the episode on PS5 only

"What if they made you buy PS5 to get Endwalker?"
"They should do that too."

[royal spruce]

Sucks that I even though I'm getting a free upgrade I still have to pay for the episode separately

[forest magnet]

"PS5 needs more content"

[woven escarp]

it does

although I don't think I'd buy a PS5 anyway, since I haven't turned my xbone on since 2019

[gaunt star]

So comfy tbh

[gaunt star]

Huh? Everything with the exception of like 5 games no one has heard about that was on PS4 is on PS5

[gaunt star]

There’s hardly anything new why would I buy a new console to play things I already beat

You shouldn’t lol

That’s a waste of money

[viscid monolith]

There's a word for people like that but I'm not allowed to say it here

[forest magnet]

[rain onyx]

I got the PS5 because I wanted the SSD and high frame rate

It’s an experience teleporting to Limsa or Eulmore in 7 seconds instead of like 25-30

And then that’s gonna be like 1-2 seconds when the beta comes out

[wary perch]

Eventually ff14 will drop ps4 though

Probably 7.0

[pine epoch]

I expect PC minimum specs to rise up first

Before ps4 drop

[wary perch]

Yea

[pine epoch]

Since ps4 is better than toaster pcs

And toasters can run 14 still

[wary perch]

They drop ps4 during SB launch right?

I mean 3

Ps3

[pine epoch]

Ps3 during SB. 32 bit during shb

So far they haven't mentioned minimum spec requirements being upped yet

[wary perch]

Iirc free upgrade to PS4 is hw

[pine epoch]

So maybe at this point that will be a 7.0 thing

[wary perch]

Yea

[pine epoch]

8.0 ps4 drop

Aince by then ps5 circulation should be good

And people will have had 3 4 years

[wary perch]

That's like 4yrs from now

[pine epoch]

Of ps5

[wary perch]

If ps5 still have shortage then it probably mean nobody want the console lol

[pine epoch]

Well it's not just the shortage

But their also expensive and I dont think 14 players who are on console are dropping that kinda cash

So 8.0 is more realistic

Minimum requirement for RAM for 14 is 3 gigs

Ps4 has 5 gigs

[wary perch]

Yea

And ps5 just launch too

But imo I feel like ps5 is just a upgraded ps4 pro

Hence all the ps4 backward compatibility

[pine epoch]

Ps4 pro doesn't even fucking take advantage of all the hardware it has

Also how they are handling ps5 and ps4 version

Own 1 you own the other

[wary perch]

Yea

I hope ps5 version of 14 is more than just 4k UI and faster loading time lol

I hope the textures get updated too

Otherwise pixelated clothing on 4k lol

[pine epoch]

People keep saying that but I dont see it. Then people bring up graha crystallization

Which I feel the crystallization looked better being pixelated

But there are certain textures I do think that could be better

[wary perch]

Hien clothing is one

Some other glamour as well but not really a big issue

[woven escarp]

rock textures are a big offender

you don't pay a lot of attention to them but it becomes really obvious when you turn tessellation on

because the shitty low res textures compound the shitty tessellation effect

[viscid monolith]

The tessellation is so bad it makes my skin itch

It looks unnatural

[woven escarp]

tessellation always looks like ass

unless you have insanely high res textures

[pine epoch]

The graha crystalized thing I will fight. Cause I think the pixelation makes it look cool in my opinion

[wary perch]

But imo it can have a better crystalized effect than pixel though

[woven escarp]

the pixellated effect doesn't look intentional though

like some kind of high tech glitch effect

it just looks like a low res texture

[pine epoch]

Idk the pixel to me adds more weight in my opinion

[maiden lodge]

Low end pc is still the bottleneck right now.

IF anything is a bottleneck

[pine epoch]

Ye I said that

I said low end PC is the bottleneck and before ps4 gets removed

The minimum specs of 14 would increase

To remove low end pc

[woven escarp]

and people would still cry

"why are they making me upgrade my PC from 2012?? this is bullshit"

like... it's been more than 10 years my guy

it's time

[maiden lodge]

I just don

I don't see CBU3 dumping a major customer base like that right now

Unlike CBU1

[floral aurora]

7.0 Remastered Version coming in 2023

[maiden lodge]

'So we told you we needed to release this game episodically in order to afford development. So, as a thank you, we're releasing an episode of DLC on a platform no one can get right now, and will not be releasing it for the platform we launched on.'

[floral aurora]

I wonder would it be a lot of trouble for them to outsource it and just have a few from SE oversee it

[maiden lodge]

Ask Mac how that turned out for them

[woven escarp]

like the omega M/F statues?

[maiden lodge]

tbf they don't have statue development in house

[floral aurora]

Idk about that, but the outsource team would only be changing the graphics and the SE team will see if they need to make other adjustments like combat animations and stuff

[woven escarp]

they don't but they're supposed to have a test sample provided for final QC

which didn't happen

and nobody could go to the factory in china to see what they were doing

so people got bootleg looking statues for $800

[maiden lodge]

Like I said--ask what happened to Mac development, cause that's what they did there.

Spoiler: Public apology and a ceasing of sales

[floral aurora]

Guess its a way different issue than what Capcom does

[maiden lodge]

Ports have always been a risky business.

[floral aurora]

I just don't see a remaster coming anytime soon unless they outsource it

[maiden lodge]

There's no point remastering an MMO.

SE gains nothing but expenses.

[woven escarp]

ye

especially since XIV looks fine as it is

the only thing they could do is spruce up some of the really bad low res textures

[maiden lodge]

Which is nothing but expenses

[floral aurora]

I honestly would love one down the line and I'm curious when SE would want to do another MMO

[woven escarp]

the FFXI HD fan project really rejuvenated the look of the game

[woven escarp]

it's a loss on the ledger but it's significantly cheaper than "make a whole new goddamn engine and port everything over"

[maiden lodge]

Which in turn is signfiicantly more expensive forever than 'Do nothing'

[floral aurora]

When was FFXI released?

[maiden lodge]

18 years ago or so

[woven escarp]

yeah, XI is ancient

2002 was NA release, I think

[floral aurora]

So wait...

[maiden lodge]

But you need a lot more than 'well you remade the game once because it was destroying the company if you didn't' in order to compel Yoshi P to go back and commit asset artists to remaking textures when the end result is zero more subs.

[floral aurora]

Next year would be 12 years for FFXIV....

Ohhh

[maiden lodge]

If by '12' you mean '9'

[floral aurora]

I wonder....

[maiden lodge]

And that's 1.0

[floral aurora]

I'm counting 1.0 lol

Could we possibly get a new mmo after 7.0?

XD

[maiden lodge]

Yes, if FFXIV suddenly collapses and stops growing

[floral aurora]

Doubt that lol

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, I don't know why so many people in this community have this unexplainable urge to shoot the cash cow

[floral aurora]

If anything its growing more than ever before

[woven escarp]

XI is still going after 19 years lmao

XIV isn't going anywhere for a long time

there's no incentive for XIX to be an MMO unless XI finally dips below the profit floor

[floral aurora]

FFXVII - Futuristic MMO :P

[maiden lodge]

Even then--Yoshi P doesn't agree with having 3 mmos as a business choice.

[woven escarp]

I'm saying XI would finally go out to pasture

and XIV would take its place as the long tooth MMO

[maiden lodge]

You say that as if DQX isn't the older one

[woven escarp]

DQX is still going?

[maiden lodge]

Yep.

[floral aurora]

Is WoW older or about the same age as FFXI?

[forest magnet]

younger

XI is uh, 2002

[floral aurora]

Ohhh

I thought WoW was in the ps2 era

[forest magnet]

WoW is 2004

2004 is ps2 era

[floral aurora]

So it was

Yeah that game is ancient too

[maiden lodge]

XI is a pre-wow mmo

[woven escarp]

XI was casual for its time because you only lost XP for dying

you didn't lose your fucking gear and have to go find your stupid ass corpse to get it back

[maiden lodge]

'no corpse run see we're not everquest'

[floral aurora]

So Eureka...was....

Oh brother

[maiden lodge]

Oh yeah, could you imagine having to get your -gear- back every time you died

[forest magnet]

how would that work

[gaunt star]

They’ll continue to invest in improving XIV rather than start from scratch on a new online game

New Genesis route

[forest magnet]

looting your own corpse

[woven escarp]

I mean, deleveling in dynamis and losing your gear meant gg for that run anyway

[forest magnet]

isn't NG sorta separate from current ps02

[floral aurora]

I'm sorry if this makes a lot hate me but Bozja is waaaay better than the first two steps of Eureka

Idk about Pyros

[maiden lodge]

You walk your ass to the spot your corpse died, and you loot the objects off it, diablo-style.

[dim sigil]

How did anyone ever think deleveling was a good idea

[maiden lodge]

Hey some people liked the Anemos mechanic of standing at base with your dick in your hand asking if Pazuzu is up for 20 levels

[forest magnet]

mind u Eureka only subtracts exp if you die and return

Bozja removes mettle if you die, full stop

[maiden lodge]

On the other hand, mettle is valueless after a certain point so who cares if you lose it

[woven escarp]

in XI the different raise tiers removed XP depending on which raise you got

r3 was reserved for people you liked

[dim sigil]

Mettle isnt as valuable

[woven escarp]

shitters got r1

[maiden lodge]

'I lost mettle!' 'Good news, it's like losing your virginity, it ain't much and no one worth a damn values it, let's go'

[floral aurora]

I honestly never understood the appeal to the first two steps, especially Pagos! I didn't think it could get worse than Anemos but boy was I wrong lol

[forest magnet]

the only time mettle matters is getting 700k to unlock savage and that's it right

[maiden lodge]

Pagos was released incomplete, the special actions that made Pyros suck less weren't ready.

[forest magnet]

pyros on the other hand had the worst substat selection feature

"selection"

it's a gacha

[maiden lodge]

That and unlocking tiers of Bozja and the ability to use the higher level actions but eh

Pyros has a shittier map than Pagos, if you're being objective.

[floral aurora]

Yeah after Pagos I just gave up on Eureka lol

[gaunt star]

NG is part of PSO2

[forest magnet]

does everyone currently playing PSO2 automatically upgrade to NG

[gaunt star]

It’s the same game but running on a new engine

[maiden lodge]

Literally EVERY problem Pagos' map has, except for the aetheryte level malarky, is worse on Pyros.

[forest magnet]

aetheryte level malarky got fixed in pagos anyway

[gaunt star]

Full backwards compatible

[forest magnet]

hydatos is the best map tho

flat is justice

no dragons

no chokepoints

[maiden lodge]

Yeah if you like empty maps with nothing in them

[forest magnet]

navigation wise it's the best

[gaunt star]

So yeah I would imagine they’d rather go that route with XIV than go into 5+ years of developing a new online experience

[forest magnet]

depends what u mean by "nothing in them"

[gaunt star]

Super costly and high risk

[maiden lodge]

You know eureka's bad when the answer to its problems is to remove content

[maiden lodge]

Bear in mind, deep down, I actually like the chokepoints and shit.

And I think people whining about them need to learn how to walk, they're seriously not fuckin hard to deal with.

[floral aurora]

I'm not too much into the lore of Bozja, can we expect more Bozja in Endwalker or is like Eureka and we will have no reason to go back to that place?

[maiden lodge]

Final chapter of Save the Queen is next patch cycle.

[forest magnet]

I do like the story and premise of Eureka more than Bozja

[maiden lodge]

But... Yoshi P might keep Matsuno on again.

[floral aurora]

I'm hoping it makes a return or something similar but slightly better in Endwalker. Because imo Eureka was a bust but Bozja was a winner.

[maiden lodge]

What story?

'I am Eureka!'
'Here's four people being ruddy mysterious'
3 instances later
'Oh it's a primal.'

Bozja is objectively a better story.

As in, yes, there are objective measures one can use to guage stories, and yes, Bozja does them better.

Theming--check.
Plot development--check
Story is about something larger than its own narrative--check
Story continues and explores the themes of the expansion it is a part of--check
Story doesn't rely on mystery and only mystery to keep interest--check

[dim sigil]

Bozja suffers from we have so many moments to kill her but lets stand around talking

[maiden lodge]

Ah yes, because we determine the value of a story by how quickly it lets you sate your murderboner, I forgot.

[dim sigil]

Given that the characters could have ended right there but they don't I can suspend my disbelief but not when its that bad

[maiden lodge]

Question. Do you like Dragon Ball Z?

[dim sigil]

Not really I've only ever like the abridge

[maiden lodge]

Any Shonen anime?

[dim sigil]

Is Kingdom Hearts Shonen

[maiden lodge]

Jesus

[dim sigil]

I only watch Attack on Titan & like Jojo

[maiden lodge]

Kingdom Hearts is the king of 'let's have a heckin long cutscene while we discuss hearts when we could be fighting'

[forest magnet]

Bozja is an extension of stormblood in a lot of bad ways

the character dynamics are the same

Fordola v Lyse
Misija v Mikoto

[maiden lodge]

Other than all four characters are female I literally do not see that.

At all.

Because they aren't.

[somber storm]

Looks at certain art

[maiden lodge]

Oh well, my bad, I forgot Doujinshi was canon

[viscid monolith]

Xuan has been oddly insistent that Misija and Fordola's stories are the same

[floral aurora]

Do you think we will get old primal weapons for ShB and new jobs in Endwalker?

[maiden lodge]

Which is wierd because they're not, at all, the same.

[lean adder]

My 6.0 fan fiction thoery

1. Fandaniel succeeded in blowing up the planet.
2. Zenos may yet live after this
3. Ship in end walker title becomes an ark, gaha provided the soul/memory ark, sharlyians moved the aetherial sea to the ship preserving the natural cycle, and omega provides the simulation of the world allowing player to visit post expansion.
4. Ship sets course for new place in 6.1, also player has to help deal with the social fallout of the world ending in the simulation
5. 6.1 or beyond the ark becomes the new player starting zone before they login to the simulations or new other expansions.

[maiden lodge]

deleting old content

[lean adder]

Not deleting.

Just yoshi p bemoaned how new players cant start new expansions

By making smaller bite sized stories and implementing a level sync system arc wide

You could use the ark to launch the original hydelin arc or new expansions and go out of order even

The ark will become the hub where new players can choose an adventure to start

So yoshi p gets what he wants, AND gets a good story payoff

[gaunt star]

idk if blow up the world and then pretend its still there is good story payoff

[lean adder]

They say that about time travel all the time.

Points to warlords of dreanor.

Vs the how shadowbringers came about

The main issue is that I strongly belive that hydelin and zodiark WILL NOT SURVIVE this expansion. With thier absence, the world is likely to resume falling apart again as it did for the ancients.

[woven escarp]

we don't really know what happened to start the final days

so that might be the next Big Threat that goes through 7.0

[lean adder]

And if its some planet eater, perfect excuse to go chase it down

This is afterall not the first FF that ended in a game over for good scenario.

FF13 and FF11 have game overed.

[woven escarp]

that's sort of true

[lean adder]

FF6 recovered from its game over. While 13 and 11 wont.

[woven escarp]

WOTG just tells you the truth

the game over happened in the background when you weren't looking

[lean adder]

Yoshi p also been joking about crashing the other moon

And having listened to his kind of jokes and subtle round about talking.

I belive hes serious about that one.

[pine epoch]

What's fucking canon. I come back to discord and this is the first thing I see

[lean adder]

Isnt that oxymoronic? Usually means indie publication

Which is why a large number of them are 'fan fiction' levels.

[tulip geyser]

If they're bold enough to do this I'm 100% for it

Sometimes plucky protagonist group doesnt win no matter how much power of friendship we've got.

[lean adder]

I wrote a way longer one concerning zenos and fandaniel but chopped it down to a bullet point

Fandaniel is the scion of bravery in the ff12 zodiak, associated with the lion. The ff12 zodiak has been... well fleeting at best to understand characteristics of the convocation member's behavior.

Like emet selch was the angle of truth, i never known emet to 'lie'

Or any ascian for that matter.

[tulip geyser]

Ascians lie more by omission than actual lies

[maiden lodge]

They aren't continuing the Final Days part of the arc past 6.0. If it's a part of the MSQ, it gets resolved by 6.0.

[lean adder]

Correct but that could mean either zodiark or hydelin survives still.

[maiden lodge]

Incorrect. Hashmal is what is associated with the sign of Leo and the Lion. Fandaniel is simply the Protector, we know nothing else about him in FF12, at all.

[lean adder]

But knowing both are primals, they will likely wink out of existence out of self fullfilling goals

Fandaniel = hasmal

[maiden lodge]

Which does not imply the Final Days will be a continuing arc. There will be no continuing arc. 6.0 is the end of the current story. 6.1 is new shit, a brand new start

[maiden lodge]

No, they are not.

[woven escarp]

6.0 wraps up the ascians and the hydaelyn/zodiark arc

but I don't know if that means the final days are also done

[maiden lodge]

The final days are literally part of Endwalker, according to Yoshi P

[woven escarp]

the whole reason they were even summoned was because the fabric of reality was coming apart for reasons unknown

[maiden lodge]

Yes, the FInal Days are in the MSQ described as that. Endwalker is about the Final Days coming back

Source: Yoshi P

[woven escarp]

well aware

I'm saying I don't think they'll be 👏 👏 done by the end of 6.0

[maiden lodge]

I trust Yoshi P knows what he's talking about on this.

[gaunt star]

The shirt “I’ll be here if you need me shirt” that Yoshi wore at the Expac revel actually links to a 2019 Adam sandler film called Uncut Gems..... which is about jewellery thieves so maybe the melee DPS class is a thief

[maiden lodge]

I trust that they wouldn't have spent ten minutes explaining that the MSQ, which includes the final days, would be resolved by 6.0, and that there would be no carry over, if they meant 'Oh except for that thing the expansion is about'

People just in denial

[woven escarp]

chumping the final days with a level 89 cutscene seems like a mistake when you could milk it for a whole expac

[gaunt star]

To add to that in some versions of the Robin Hood tale Robin Hood used to say “I’ll be here if you need me” to the poor

[woven escarp]

"yeah we killed zodiark but everything is fucking falling apart, oh shit"

[maiden lodge]

They said they're not heckin doing that.

They're DONE with it in 6.0.

6.1 is all new shit.

[lean adder]

Okay found it, scion of darkness, hasmal the bringer of order, under the same zodiak sign, is fandaniel the protector, the scion of light

[maiden lodge]

If you've found it, then you know it doesn't say that.

[woven escarp]

I'm just concerned that they're going to run into the same problem that rift did

[wary perch]

I doubt it's all new new instead of some unresolved plotline but either way, 6more months

[woven escarp]

after they finished with all the elemental dragons and put the death dragon back in the ground, the writers were like uh.... fuck

now what

[lean adder]

The zodiak sign for fandaniel and hasmal is the lion

[maiden lodge]

"Scion set by the gods to wield and manipulate the laws of this world, and with holy power lead mankind to order. Created in opposition to Fandaniel the Protector, scion of light. Desiring to bring order to all things, he joined with Ultima in her battle against the gods. He gave his body to the Thousand-Years War, and when his strength was spent, down into the burning inferno he fell."

[lean adder]

But we dont follow ff12s lore concerning the zodiak, we follow inspirations.

[maiden lodge]

So I don't know what you found, but the game does not say what you say it says

[lean adder]

No but if we look at emet selch, the angel of truth, his zodiak sign was death.

[maiden lodge]

I know Fandaniel!14 has lion references, but Fandaniel!12 does not. Is not the scion of bravery. And neither of them are Hashmal.

[maiden lodge]

Gemini, but I digress.

Lahabrea's fire. Mateus was Ice. Shemhazai was 'soul'. Igyeorhym was Ice.

Don't read too much into it.

[lean adder]

Try not to, but there are some links/inspirations

[maiden lodge]

Nabriales was time/space, as was Lohgrif. Chuchulainn was poison and Belias was fire. The elements of the FF12 Scion of Darkness rarely, if ever, even slightly hints at the Ascian.

[lean adder]

Ff rarely copy pastes, they at least chop one thing off and replace line at minimal.

[maiden lodge]

Even then.

You're better off just setting aside FF12's version of things in this specific regard--the game's shown it really doesn't follow it.

[woven escarp]

especially since ultima is some kind of weird alien with god-like powers in XIV

[lean adder]

The ff12 zodiak has been good for finding the mask art and names of the convocation, as for personality, its worse than a coin toss into a well.

[woven escarp]

we've already blown up a big chunk of FFT's lore

[maiden lodge]

Ascian names though aren't FFT lore, to be pedantic

Altema and Elidibus being the sole exceptions

[woven escarp]

XII and T are in the same universe, aren't they?

[maiden lodge]

Yeah but the Scions of Light are a 12 thing, not a Tactics thing.

[lean adder]

Ive been told FFT is far future, post subhuman extinction/genocides

So ff12 would be earlier in history

[maiden lodge]

It's hard to say

We don't know when the Glabados Church happens relative to FF12

or fuck it, even where

[lean adder]

Or if they are still set in the same timeline still...

[maiden lodge]

Or even the same universe exactly eyes Tactics Advance

[lean adder]

Be funny if TA or TA2 outside the book took place in FFT and the book tells an inaccurate version of their history

[maiden lodge]

Can't. They have the video game FF12 in that world.

TA2 takes place after FF12 to the west.

[pine epoch]

The only timeline I've seen of ivalice is 12 > tactice > vagrant story. And then on the wiki they claim some calamity occurs that wipes out the fantasy races leaving humans only

But I've not looked into that

To see where they get that info

[lean adder]

I would belive if you told me it was a genocide

Considering how much of an jackhole humans are in FFT

[pine epoch]

Take that with a grain of salt

[maiden lodge]

The Cataclysm took out a lot of things.

[pine epoch]

I forget does vagrant story have it's own fantasy race of creatures?

Or is it just humans

What I've seen of vagrant story is mostly gameplay. Which reminds me a lot of parasite eve for some reason

[lean adder]

The Crystal 'Exark'

[gaunt star]

Rune knight confirmed

[strange summit]

Heh ?

[cold wave]

Whatever it is, I just hope it won't be another sword using job. We got too many swords for my liking already.

[strange summit]

It's really confirmed somewhere ?

[teal geyser]

lol no

[strange summit]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-panda-mascot-mad-狂躁-gif-3456638

the name sounded cool

well anything with "knight" seems cool to me

[placid sail]

no confirmation until the fanfest in may

[somber storm]

Place your bets people

[cold wave]

Just give me a giant hammer and I'll be happy, unlikely as it is!

[clear dragon]

I am almost sure about Templar and if not Templar then a melee necromancer somehow

[cold wave]

I honestly doubt it'd be Templar, if only because they mostly use great swords and spears, both of which are already in use.

[balmy mesa]

also spiky class aesthetic - templar wouldn't fit that

(referring to how maiming gear has spikes in general)

[cold wave]

And personally I don't want to see a 7th "sword" job

[balmy mesa]

yeah

chances are reasonable it'll be a 2H job

[cold wave]

I really hope so, I love two handed weapons. I used to main Dragoon but don't enjoy the gameplay anymore since Stormblood, so I would love to have any two handed dps job

[somber storm]

Technically Nin is 2 handed

[balmy mesa]

I mean 1 weapon 2H

[somber storm]

SAM

[balmy mesa]

it looks like they switch between 1H and 2H for SAM

[cold wave]

Swords are so boring though!

[balmy mesa]

ok so we've got...
2H:

• axe (WAR)
• bastard sword/claymore (DRK)
• polearm/trident (DRG)
• fists (what, a monk has two hands )

1H:

• sword (PLD)
• dagger (NIN)
• gunblade (GBR)
• uchigatana* (SAM)

*interchangeable, but let's just assume it's 1H here

this leaves double-ended glaives (though DRG has a few glaive-like glams), scythes
but what we could see is a glaive-like weapon that splits into two for some attacks (like what's been posted here before)

[teal geyser]

Bite me

I still want a rune knight sword job

It's clearly not happening now but one day...

[balmy mesa]

ah, they could still do rune knight

[teal geyser]

Not for 6.0

And if they do I'll be mad since it'd be scythe based

[balmy mesa]

but it doesn't have to be scythe-based

is it really pointing towards that evidence?

[teal geyser]

The new job is clearly scythes

[balmy mesa]

goddamnit yoship, why must you sow discord in your fanbase?!

[cold wave]

If only it were possible to add all jobs at once

[teal geyser]

People who say it's something else are insane since these job hints have never been that convoluted

Most convoluted it got was the samurai one

But that's more of an exception

[balmy mesa]

hammer and sickle

[somber storm]

Please look forward to it

[cold wave]

To be fair, everyone was so sure we'd get a chemist healer as well

[teal geyser]

Yeah but there was no shirt hint for that

[balmy mesa]

sage is an original class, so they've got that going for them

[cold wave]

True, but you never know what surprise they have for us

[balmy mesa]

I just want a shopping bag glam for Dancer...

[somber storm]

Well yes and no

[cold wave]

Might be trying to throw us for a loop

[teal geyser]

Well yes and no but basically yes

[teal geyser]

Again

They've NEVER been that convoluted

Not even remotely

[cold wave]

Which doesn't mean that it can't be

[balmy mesa]

yes I know, but it's fairly unique as FF classes go

that's what I mean

with the liths

[teal geyser]

No but it makes it stupid for one to think it's probable

[cold wave]

No one said it's probable. I said it's possible

[balmy mesa]

Gunbreaker is also pretty unique even though it was in FF8

[teal geyser]

Still lowkey disappointed we never got Garlean gunblades

[balmy mesa]

we might this expansion tho

[teal geyser]

No

We aren't

It's a scythe job

[balmy mesa]

nooo, I mean as gunblade glams

[cold wave]

Glamour for gunblade?

[teal geyser]

And even if it wasn't, I think we killed off all chances of the other gunblade by adding in the FF8 one

Ohhh

Maybe

I'd dig that

[balmy mesa]

I think this is available as a glam?

lmfao, when they introduced Lightning's weapon they couldn't do it as a gunbreaker glam

had to be gladiator

[teal geyser]

That is Gaius' sword

[balmy mesa]

yup

[teal geyser]

I'm not sure they'd give you that for at least a long while

[balmy mesa]

if it isn't already, it would not surprise me if they made it as a mogstation item

[teal geyser]

It is not already

[balmy mesa]

heh, gunbaghnakhs, Garleans are fond of turning anything and everything into a gun-related weapon

meanwhile, TIL that's what the monk weapon is called

[cold wave]

Just give us Nero's hammer at some point please

[teal geyser]

No

No hammer for you

[balmy mesa]

god fucking damn it, I missed yet another organised DR run

that's what I get for going down that rabbit hole

oh well, time to continue leveling black mage because I'm a masochist

now, continuing with patch speculation...

how big do you reckon the new expansion will be?

[cold wave]

As file size or world size?

[balmy mesa]

file size

[cold wave]

Probably around the same as Shadowbringers I expect

[balmy mesa]

I fully expect patch 5.5 to be quite large as the assumption is that they're also upgrading the PC version with the new higher-res textures for icons, etc.

[cold wave]

I wonder if I'd even notice higher res textures. I have such an old and small screen

[balmy mesa]

I certainly would, there's some 720p fun stuff

[obsidian pagoda]

Honestly if they don't do this PC res uograde I'd be super disappointed

[balmy mesa]

yea

though I think they will

it's a big project that's for sure

I wonder if anyone did any texture mods for FFXIV

[teal geyser]

They exist

[balmy mesa]

I wonder if there's one that fixes Hien's pixelated armour

[strange summit]

praise

[gaunt star]

@teal geyserhttps://twitter.com/FF_XIV_EN/status/1366352076725452802?s=19

FINAL FANTASY XIV (@FF_XIV_EN)

@Avaeck When it's Alphinaud: I can look after myself, you know 😤
When it's the WoL: I... I can look after m-myself, you know 😳

Twitter · Mar 1, 2021, 11:38 AM

[teal geyser]

When it's the WoL: I...I can't look after m-myself, you need to come here and help me 😳

[turbid aspen]

IM CRYING

[gaunt star]

"O-oh no YOU LOST TO ME ON PURPOSE D-DIDNT YOU?! 😳"

[craggy pawn]

LMAO

[placid sail]

WoL gets tsundere, Alphi just gets tsuntsun

[clear dragon]

The only classes I could decypher from the shirt was Necromancer or Templar

Unless everyone missed a massive hint or he switches it up and the shirt wasnt a hint

It is a magic melee right

[exotic copper]

hammer

[placid sail]

it shares gear with DRG

so a heavier armored melee job

[exotic copper]

necromancer -> reaper

or some other name fora scythe wielding melee dps

[cold wave]

Didn't YoshiP at one point say that necromancer is a bit difficult to do due to cultural reasons

Or am I misrememberibg things

[exotic copper]

he did, necromancy is stereotypically evil

so just imagine a necromancer but nice

[languid breach]

Also I don't expect any of the Heroes Gauntlet only jobs to become playable (my heart aches for ink mage tho)

[exotic copper]

and call it something else

and it probably doesnt use necromancy

[placid sail]

arcanists are literally ink mages though

[gaunt star]

newjob

[cold wave]

Mhm, yeah I really doubt we're going to run around with zombie minions

[exotic copper]

thats just ranjit, dog

[placid sail]

they draw aetheric diagrams wirh conductive ink and channel magic through them

[languid breach]

Okay but imagine a job with a versatile weapon, like can stance dance between a melee and ranged mode.

[exotic copper]

we're going to get something that probably "keeps the balance of life and death", so like an anti necromancer that has all the flavor of the scythe wielding necromancer

while also being a hero

[languid breach]

Or even have multiple melee modes like Harbinger (scythe/sword/gun)

[exotic copper]

but I'd rather get a hammer.

[cold wave]

Same

Let us be Nero please

[languid breach]

Sounds like grave cleric from DnD. One of its defensive traits could be negating enemy crits in a radius. Do enemies even crit?

[exotic copper]

I doubt it will draw inspiration so directly

[languid breach]

Fair

Just spitballing

[exotic copper]

But I think that general concept is about right, probably

Considering Zenos has what looks like a scythe

and zenos cheated death

[languid breach]

I still don't think they'll do necromancer. Anything relating death is a big no-no in China

[exotic copper]

it's not going to be called necro lol

[cold wave]

Do we actually know for sure it's a scythe though, don't we only see a small tip of the weapon?

[exotic copper]

its gonna be like harbinger or dervish or reaper

[languid breach]

I read it as "Zenos cheated on death" and was like "woah Thanos calm down"

[exotic copper]

or judge

Its not confirmed

its just the only thing that people have speculated that seems correct

You see a sort of shaft and blade that is perpendicular

so it creates a sort of L physiology

physicality maybe

https://preview.redd.it/8my2sga3bsf61.png?width=1494&format=png&auto=webp&s=82fc9d39e6dca47a37a1d937f26e322b1403d4e9

alternatively, it could be a bladed staff but i couldn't imagine...

https://preview.redd.it/sazwwy30lag61.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=db194c35faabac136a0b762ca245b3cd0eb2f56d

imagining zenos with a staff is hard

zenos with a scythe is not

[kindred rampart]

https://i.imgur.com/na7c3fW.png

DRK2:Electric Boogaloo

[exotic copper]

to be fair, templar would be pld 2

[strange summit]

Exorcist

Better than Necro

[exotic copper]

Thats a good name

would also be symbolic of defeating what zenos has become

[strange summit]

And it's the good version of what the corrupted second boss of the Hero's Gauntlet is

[kindred rampart]

or they call it SHI and go with a more Japanese presentation of the job
https://i.imgur.com/qOxUYvO.png

[exotic copper]

no

god no

[unique verge]

Which is dead in the water because its Maiming armor

Thankfully

[cold wave]

Just me looking for possibilities here, but based on the image, it could still be a hammer as well.

If you look at the visible bit as the end with the actual hammer bit on the floor

[exotic copper]

I like where your head is at

but zenos's famous line

is "i need a new blade"

[strange summit]

what if it's the same as Gabranth fighting style ?

[unique verge]

Also, I think your visual analysis above is a bit flawed potentially. I think your theorhetical blade is passing over one of the three holes in the throne, which you can see as it pans.

[kindred rampart]

though it would be hilarious if it's just Bleach: The Job and it would still fit Zenos being a weeb

[exotic copper]

i would opt out

its not my analysis, but the blade doesn't have to follow that exact path either

[unique verge]

The problem is that the available paths are....somewhat narrow. The blade either ends up being shorter than Zenos' arms, or it ends up having to be curved so hard that it would be useless as a weapon.

[exotic copper]

when has that stopped FF

[unique verge]

Okay, but as much as I think that picture is stupid

that blade is long

[kindred rampart]

FF iconic weapons aren't known for following practical rules lol

[exotic copper]

i'm not saying its 100% scythe, I'm just saying its the best explanation I've heard

[unique verge]

I dont believe the trailers available images are sufficient to say that its anything.

Now, some people say its 100% based on shirts, but i think this is also....questionable.

[exotic copper]

then you should probably reconsider being in the speculation chat lol

Its not any one thing

its a combination of things

[kindred rampart]

It was left as an intentional tease to keep us on our toes but it's fair to say a Scythe is a well made guess that I wouldn't blame anyone sticking with

considering the shirts too in combining the theory

[exotic copper]

i would honestly prefer something that wasn't a scythe

but no one has made a prediction that has made as much sense

[kindred rampart]

I think best case would be a weapon that can shift states to mix things up

2 in 1 weapon

[strange summit]

Again, like Gabranth fighting style

Two swords ? poof dual bladed pole

[unique verge]

I still think the most logical outcome is going to be "something like a Judge" or "something like a Legatus"

[strange summit]

because why the fuck not

[exotic copper]

The only clue that i think hasn't been fully explored is "the filth and the fury" and the fury is halone, but plds also are big into halone

[strange summit]

Halone uses both a shield and a spear

[exotic copper]

and plds use sword n shield

i dont think it necessarily interacts

[kindred rampart]

Filth?

https://youtu.be/DwkLNxSoRZs

[strange summit]

Yeah so Holy Knights

[exotic copper]

lol well if we interpret "filth" as dirt and "fury" as halone, Nophica is the "tender of soils" and her weapon is the scythe.

[unique verge]

Heavy armor due to being on maiming. Sage is likely to be heavily Thavnair/Radz-at-Han themed, which would make it logical for the other job to be Garlean themed in some way. Something that resembles either Gabranth's fighting style, or Gaius/Regula fighting style, are options i think are very open still.

[exotic copper]

It could even be Templar, but Templar uses a scythe.

[kindred rampart]

Botanist just gets converted into a DPS job
Farmer replaces it

[exotic copper]

Or templar with a bladed staff

[strange summit]

Let's think batshit crazy, what about a job that comes from anywhere but the three grand continent

[kindred rampart]

Axe and Scythe dual weld

[exotic copper]

I really hope its not a scythe but i think scythe is pretty popular and I'm in the minority

[strange summit]

Like Meracydia for example

[craggy pawn]

HAMMER

[exotic copper]

hammer good

[unique verge]

The problem is that we know exactly jack shit about Meracydia other than "had dragons, allagans went genocidal"

[exotic copper]

zenos could also be totally unlinked from the job, and still have a scythe

[unique verge]

That's something that i agree with. I dont know why everyone is so certain that Zenos is going to be the same job as the player.

[cold wave]

Not having any information is both the greatest and the worst thing

[exotic copper]

Because in his introduction he was SAM which was at the time the new job

and he says at one point that WoL and he will feast on Zodiark and Hydaelyn and duel to the death

so like

he's kind of our inverse

but also that doesn't mean it necessarily has to be that way

[strange summit]

Imagine waiting for 3 months to finally have info on the new job... haha... urgh

[unique verge]

I suppose, but he was "doing the SAM thing" for his entire backstory more or less. It would be kind of weird for him to take up an entirely new art and we just so happen to take up the same new one.

[exotic copper]

or he takes up the new art by bastardizing its philosophies and abusing its power and we come to be the harbinger of that

[unique verge]

One other....minor argument against "Zenos is the new job". Zenos' new outfit doesnt exactly scream Maiming token to me.

[exotic copper]

do we have a full shot of that outfit?

i dont really remember it

[unique verge]

Nah, but we have sections of it, and there's not really any "heavy armor" to be seen

[exotic copper]

That's fair

But I've had similar thoughts about drg armor before

[languid breach]

Zenos is the new job

Barbarian: we pick up tall blonds and just swing them at the enemy while screaming

[cold wave]

To be fair, I don't think we can really judge the armour like that. Dancer gear doesn't look anything like regular Aiming gear either

[exotic copper]

"have you ever been so mad you hit a motherfucker with another motherfucker"

[gaunt star]

zenos being the new job doesn't mean he is going to be wearing that jobs armour lmao

[languid breach]

Also Lyse is still a monk while wearing a lithe dress

[exotic copper]

thats also fair, see zenos sam

thicc boi

[open verge]

Why would Zenos be wearing af gear

🙈

[unique verge]

I never suggested he'd be wearing AF gear.

[exotic copper]

zenos next companion added to trusts

[languid breach]

Did Zenos actually use Sam animations? Because important NPCs often have custom jobs, or have no jobs at all and they just use a weapon of a job without belonging to it.

[open verge]

No

[exotic copper]

I think he used one for the draw slash

but thats it

[unique verge]

I suggested that his new outfit isnt consistent with something you'd expect "Maiming" armor to look like. That's all.

[exotic copper]

but also npcs dont tend to use weapons that wont be available to any jobs

they are the exception usually, not the rule

[languid breach]

Tbh as a glam enthusiast, I just feel bad for the new jobs missing out on so many relics and AF gear, not having crafted ex weapons, etc

[exotic copper]

Nero/Ranjit are the two major ones I can think of

[cold wave]

Which means come on Gaia, gimme that hammer

[exotic copper]

i would love the hammer.

Gaia's hammer is beautiful

[open verge]

We got gunblades and they look nothing like the gunblades we had in the game before

[exotic copper]

Sure, but we had them before

Oh theres the garlean girl with gunblade arms too

we never got that

[languid breach]

TLDR Garlean gunblades have a fundamentally different purpose than GNB ones
Garlean gunblades are basically guns with fancy bayonets

[open verge]

True

But I still want one

[exotic copper]

and bozjan gunblades are basically blades with a shotgun attached

[unique verge]

GNB "gunblades" are basically just "press button to accelerate swing"

[languid breach]

Yep

[exotic copper]

gaia's hammer would be so cool to have

man

[languid breach]

But Gaia had a lot of weird stuff going on, like the time magic that would be impossible to replicate as PC mechanics

[exotic copper]

oh for sure

i just want the hammer

lol

[unique verge]

My only other argument against scythe is how do you make it not feel too samey with DRK/DRG animations

[languid breach]

I think we're not likely to revisit the First anytime soon, so if we get the hammer, it'll be a Mogstation item for a hammer job

[open verge]

Spiny boy

[unique verge]

Like half of DRG animations make sense as Scythe animations

[exotic copper]

honestly you just theme it as astral rather than umbral

[open verge]

How you make it not look like warrior lmao

[exotic copper]

you can easily theme an exorcist holding a scythe as astral

[unique verge]

That's also valid

[languid breach]

Plus scythes would draw in all the edgelords. I personally think it's likely, but I also took time mage new job for granted.

[open verge]

[craggy pawn]

LOL

[cold wave]

You'll always have a group of players that rush toward a job with a specific theme. Happened with DRK, happened with SAM, and will happen with the new one

[open verge]

^

RDM was also incredibly popular

If the scythe job has a lolita aesthetic it would bring in players

[unique verge]

That seems incredibly unlikely

That aesthetic, that is

[cold wave]

The AF gear will be the maid outfit

[open verge]

Wait is Lolita not gothic

It’s just a maid outfit wtf

😭 I thought Lolita meant gothic

[exotic copper]

lololol

lolita is often followed by goth

or precursored

[gaunt star]

gothic lolita job would be major pog

[exotic copper]

see

the weebs are coming out already

[languid breach]

FBI open up

[gaunt star]

[unique verge]

I mean ya'll are just arguing for Edda in POTD, as the new job now.

[exotic copper]

basically

[cold wave]

Edda vs Gaia, go

[exotic copper]

gaia

has hammer

[next quarry]

Lolita gothic is one of my fav aesthetics

[exotic copper]

is adult

[craggy pawn]

Lolita would be more like gaia...i think

Clothing style wise

[pastel coyote]

hammer is lame

[exotic copper]

edda is way closer

YOU'RE LAME D:

[unique verge]

Edda is pure Gothic Lolita. Gaia is much more tilted to the "just Goth" than the Lolita side.

[next quarry]

^

[unique verge]

In terms of styles

[exotic copper]

fax

[gaunt star]

Lol gaia lolita

[craggy pawn]

Gaia is hot topic

Ryne is sanrio

[exotic copper]

troo

always preferred hot topic

[floral aurora]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MdreW1kgvG8

Glad they made this to hold us over for awhile

[exotic copper]

it sounds really familiar and idk why

like when i first heard it

i thought i had heard it before

[floral aurora]

[gaunt star]

The melody is reminiscent of Nirvana to me at least

[paper dagger]

That's been since the trailer for me, really.

Definitely has that grungy feeling to it.

"DAMMIT, Soken! Just how many genres are you good at?!" "Yes." "ARGH!"

Though admitedly I prefer Husky's version of it, that baseline at about 2 minutes in alone just sends me to the non-literal moon.

[languid breach]

Soken is like 35% of the reason I play xiv

[exotic copper]

i'm going to post an incredibly unfavorable opinion i think

i think the vocal distortion on most ff tracks ruins them

[gaunt star]

Not too bad of an opinion

[exotic copper]

like, if i can't even guess at your lyrics...

[languid breach]

cries in can't sing the last part of eScape at all because the vocals are so distorted I have no idea where the syllables are

Why do songs exist if you can't sing them

[gaunt star]

Score one for the people who can’t sing gang

[exotic copper]

thats not true, i love instrumental tracks

and if a song is in russian or something, i don't dislike it

[languid breach]

I don't think instrumental tracks are songs. They're like, music tracks. Song implies it has lyrics.

[dark carbon]

sideways glance at Rise

[exotic copper]

but if the song is in english

and i can't understand it

and I'm a native english speaker

[gaunt star]

Let me just sing along to the death metal song

[languid breach]

Oh I know my limits. I didn't even attempt Rise.

[exotic copper]

the titan theme is like a slightly cleaner vocal away from being sick af

[languid breach]

Also to get it on record I also love instrumental tracks

[gaunt star]

that’s a lie I can keep up with most metal

[languid breach]

Titan theme be like: badabadabada TITAN

Also Elrek, what do you think about Sunrise? I think both the male and female vocals are crystal clear on that one. Wayward Daughter too.

[exotic copper]

I dont know most track names off the top of my head, I'd have to hear them lol

[languid breach]

If you like to sing, do yourself a favour and sing the English version of Sunrise. The melody complements the exotic words in the lyrics so well. My favourite part is "bid farewell to me beloved"

YouTube them, Sunrise is Suzaku and Wayward Daughter is Tsukuyomi p3

[exotic copper]

sunrise good

yeah, these are good tracks, but clean vocals lmao

[paper dagger]

The vocal distortion bothers me a BIT, but as a metalhead I'm also used to thinking "WTF are they saying" anyway

[languid breach]

In general Stormblood is full of crystal clear lyrics that are a pleasure to sing. eScape (apart from the final part), Beauty's Wicked Wiles, Sunrise, Wayward Daughter, I'd say Amatsu Kate also qualifies

[exotic copper]

I love metal. I can make out metal.

[languid breach]

As a non native, I can't understand English lyrics by default

[exotic copper]

wait really? thats crazy

[languid breach]

Even if it's slow AF

There are some words I can make out but I'm used to having to look up the lyrics

[paper dagger]

I DO wonder if there's a reason behind it. Like if he feels if they're TOO evident it'll give away story or something.

[gaunt star]

They distort the teaser trailer for that reason

[exotic copper]

I mean, the entire story of ShB was in the opening theme

[languid breach]

I think it may be so people aren't distracted by deciphering the song and fuck up mechs?

[exotic copper]

i'm more distracted lmao

imagine someone singing in your native language

but you can't quite understand them

[languid breach]

Okay that's fair

[gaunt star]

Can’t distract me from fucking up the mechs when I do that regardless

[exotic copper]

your ear is naturally drawn to something almost intelligble

[languid breach]

Artificial difficulty increase? Dammit

[exotic copper]

i like titanias theme too

[unique verge]

Regarding earlier topic of "vocal distortion" (sorry late to the convo, but i had bad reasons)

[languid breach]

Oooooh yeah. What Angel Wakes Me is a big favourite of mine. I know the lyrics by heart, I just don't have the lung capacity not to have to take a breath in the middle of the last part

[unique verge]

I think its an unfortunate necessity due to the fact that like 90% of the voices in FF14 music are Soken/Koji

[gaunt star]

^

[languid breach]

In general I'm a huge pixie fan, did the entire beat tribe storyline mostly for the garden's gates orc roll

F

[exotic copper]

i'm not mad, just wish they were cleaner

I show my friends songs sometimes and the only negative feedback is ever "i can't understand wtf they're saying"

[cold wave]

My favourite song after all this time is still Equilibrium

[languid breach]

Yeah RWBY has clean vocals and it suffers from everyone's character songs being sung by two people (Casey and Jeff Williams).

[exotic copper]

two singers can still do a lot

[paper dagger]

What Angel Wakes induces me to a rage state. Because I considered it part of the challenge when learning Titantia EX which was my first ever current-content EX I decided to learn.

[exotic copper]

see Supergiant Games

[languid breach]

Titania was my first EX, but it was like around 5.2-5.3 so it wasn't current. My first current ex was sos

[exotic copper]

I think I like titanias theme for the pronounced position the bass takes

[languid breach]

I just like the whimsy of it.

I still go wtf at "wanton silence" like umm Titania, you might want to look up some of that because those words don't mean what you think they mean

[paper dagger]

I'm also used to lyrics I can't understand, so maybe it doesn't bother me. Heidevolk, for example, wonderful dutch folk metal. But outside of "Bier" (That word I know!) I don't understand a bloody thing for most of their songs.

[exotic copper]

it did make me laugh the first time i heard it

i thought i was going crazy

I'm down with languages i dont speak

but something about it being something i do speak and should be able to understand... lol

[languid breach]

I like metal, but the only songs I have downloaded that are the genre are Korpiklaani, a Finnish metal band. In general I like Viking metal

[exotic copper]

i think the only song i regularly put on lists from korpiklaani is man with a plan

[languid breach]

I think I have Ievan Polka downloaded

[paper dagger]

Ehhh, see wanton silence made perfect sense to me being that it's from the pixie's PoV and quiet isn't something they're good with.

[languid breach]

Isn't wanton usually used in ugh, less than safe at work contexts?

[exotic copper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0G2auMMKlo

badabadawella

no, wanton is like "excess"

wanton destruction

[paper dagger]

Korpiklaani is awesome, Rautta is one of my faves. If you like that stuff Vie, give Heidevolk a try. Same kinda stuff, but Dutch.

[languid breach]

Also "wonted quiet" should imply that it's their habit to be quiet? I'm not a native speaker, i just googled the word

Oh

[exotic copper]

wonted is old english

[paper dagger]

And Wanton can be sexually violent, or violent and unprovoked.

[languid breach]

Ah yes, I'm gonna violently shut up

[exotic copper]

lol its supposed to be contrarian

[languid breach]

Petition to delete English and replace it with Esperanto

[exotic copper]

You wouldn't say "wanton silence" in english