Azem was pretty 😊
#retired-patch-6-3-discussion
turbid aspen
gaunt star
"matters not" blah blah
subtle pasture
And for the record, Hydaelyn didn't specifically choose us because we were Shards of Azem, but Azem's Shards are prob readily awoken to the Echo
What a sensitive sap.
gaunt star
Didn't the WoL randomly awaken after they saw the starshower or w.e at Ulduh
subtle pasture
or Limsa or Gridania, depending on your opening,
subtle pasture
Though, tbf, WoL had already somehow "partially" awaken, per the opening CS with the Hear. Feel. Think.
also why we got a Crystal of Light before that Starshower, since, like, those special rocks come after the Echo?
high swan
Ok last question. Fandaniel seems to be mad and go against what the other Ascians are trying to achieve
Its all a ploy
right?
subtle pasture
gaunt star
We dont know
oak pike
Fandaniel probably just hates everyone
serene crest
Ul'dah opening arguably has more to do with the main thread in Ul'dah than Limsa and Gridania openings do for their own cities.
gaunt star
As Yoshi P said in the reveal of endwalker he carries a big secret
Maybe it ties to the final days of the ancients
Maybe not who knows
oak pike
watch fandaniel was the one who caused the end of days
gaunt star
Yeah probably
heavy lintel
If he's recreating the final days presumably he knows what caused the first one
gaunt star
Since hes the one causing them on the Source now
subtle pasture
A popular theory is his Constellation Crystal was corrupted,
due to its broken quotation
gaunt star
Possible
high swan
It wasn't just Lovecraft space horrors that did it?
subtle pasture
Those are products of the Final Days 
gaunt star
Then those creatures appeared
high swan
"Sound out of space"
oak pike
and those sounds are being heard on the source
craggy pawn
It was described as an keening or something
heavy lintel
"keening from the earth" was the line ye
oak pike
And we have idiots being tempered to hail garletards
well the towers are causing people to do that now
gaunt star
I blame the telophoroi
gaunt star
well the towers are causing people to do that now
Funny how it happens as soon as the solution for early stages of tempering is found
craggy pawn
Maybe anima will be the source of the sound
oak pike
we cured cancer and now our enemies created a cancer gun
gaunt star
Well played Fandaniel
Hail Garlemald the Ruined
Garlemald Restoration but we call the Garleans savages
Please yoshi p
soft gyro
fandaniel is going to be the boss of 6.5
gaunt star
Hoping the new arc involves other shards
gaunt star
Probably not
heavy lintel
80 would be pretty quick I think
soft gyro
imagine killing fandaniel, in a dungeon.
gaunt star
Considering Endwalker ends with 6.0
high swan
Xenos kills Fandaniel
gaunt star
It might be longer than the usual xpac releases
soft gyro
we won't get fandaniel ex if we kill him in a dungeon
gaunt star
Why fandanny ex when u can have Zenos EX
soft gyro
actually instead fandaniel gets moved to the raid fights in pandemonion
heavy lintel
I imagine that's what he'll be tbh
maiden lodge
Im guessing the endboss will be Zodiark AND Hydaelyn at the same time
oak pike
like we gonna assume we going to get a lvl 83 89 and 90 trial
maiden lodge
AND THEN THEY MERGE
That being the goal.
Credit where credit's due, Rom gave me the seed for the idea
gaunt star
Wonder if Lunar Bahamut will be an MSQ Duty or Trial 
maiden lodge
Her idea for the final zone is too genius
gaunt star
Or a 5.5 kill
oak pike
oh fuck lunar bahamut i forgot
maiden lodge
Probably a dungeon boss
deft burrow
maiden lodge
Like... if it were a trial it'd be announced as one
pastel coyote
I still bet on "hydaelyn will sacrifice herself to zodiark who will use all he have to stop the final day"
maiden lodge
And I don't see it being in Amal'jaa land
oak pike
||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyTIkX_6q_0|| spoiler for the hydaelyn and zodiark boss fight
soft gyro
lmao
soft gyro
mario and luigi dlc when
oak pike
watch we go underground to deal with the noise and theres nothing
gaunt star
Inb4 we go to the moon to use zodiarks power 
turbid aspen
maybe the noise was the friends we made along the way
heady shadow
inb4 it was hydaelyn all along
gaunt star
soft gyro
are we going to kill both hydalaeyn and zodiark?
wet crown
kill? not sure
will both die? possibly
soft gyro
nah, it probably be like how ||thancred almost killed hades||
wet crown
a tiny piece of auracite never gonna get rid of either one
soft gyro
they gonna say poof
and then they gone
and then we have to walk back to earth
though, wasn't it hyadalyn that was showing the meteor vision thing at when we started the game?
turbid aspen
oh man cant wait for the endless gifs of catgirls and potatos walking on the moon
wet crown
no
high swan
Final Fantasy 17: Online
wet crown
Her disapperance has no side effects we know of right now
that is, if zodiark is also gone
heady shadow
honestly
6.0 is supposed to be the end of the arc
which means both will likely vanish
wet crown
Her purpose is to bind Him
high swan
Maybe its the end of the game
soft gyro
FFXIV: ARR: ARR
heady shadow
theres no point to keep either around if its supposed to be the end
high swan
Would be a good excuse to drop PS4 support in favour of Ps5
wet crown
No, ARRARR was 5.2
soft gyro
just remove ps5 and ps4 support, easy fix
high swan
pls
high swan
Is it really that high?
soft gyro
i don't doubt it's not that high
final fantasy series is pretty famous in playstation space
high swan
aye
heady shadow
need to remember, they do cater to ps ppeps more
soft gyro
since that's where all their exlusives goes
heady shadow
its why ffxiv has a good Controller setup
soft gyro
FF16 is also probably timed exlusive to ps5
i doubt its permanent
like in how ffxv did it
heady shadow
either way it would be stupid for them to drop ps4 right now
it didnt come with the problems ps3 did
high swan
this arc is quite "epic" in terms of scale. How do they go further than that?
soft gyro
ps4 is still "current" gen.
without the raytracing stuff
and raytracing isn't even yet usable in every game yet
unless the game they are developing is going to be super graphical, pretty much any game that isn't can run probably run perfectly fine on a ps4
soft gyro
yeah, and they are attempting to fix that by reducing that raytrace count by using some weird ass ai that upscales from low res to high res.
heady shadow
Hottake.
||if the devs were sdo focused on getting rid of PC support then they should have just let Ultimate release in 5.55. turn ffxiv into a ''proper mmo||
woven escarp
ray tracing is still very gimmicky stuff
raytracing will be a huge advantage for developers when engines have it integrated from the base
like UE5 will probably have a much lower penalty for enabling raytracing than UE 4.26
the amount of effort that goes into making lighting work "correctly" is massively reduced when the engine does all the crunching for you and you don't have to make a shitload of custom lightmaps and all sorts of workarounds to get each scene lit the way you want
although I think there will be a huge learning curve for game artists who aren't used to working with light that way, you'll see a lot of talent poaching from cinematography schools at first 
soft gyro
but then they need to support non-rt cards too. until you replace all gpu's that can't handle raytracing, it won't be helping much than adding more work, or making the non-rt look worse cause they want to save by working less on it.
woven escarp
so the thing about "rt" is that nvidia convinced everyone that it's some magical feature that you need a special bobbin to do
you don't
heavy lintel
? If your GPU doesn't support realtime raytracing it doesn't support it
woven escarp
nvidia had to add specific computing units for raytracing because they intentionally gimped the compute functionality on their consumer GPUs to push people into buying tesla cards
you can run raytracing on any card with sufficient processing power
soft gyro
? If your GPU doesn't support realtime raytracing it doesn't support it
yeah. it would take double the work/testing to check scenes with/without rt.
woven escarp
raytracing is part of the directX spec so there's no proprietary hardware involved
nvidia's marketing team is just extremely good at pitching a defective product line as an advantage
soft gyro
you still need the hardware to make it work good.
woven escarp
sure, so the minimum spec will be raised up
if you're expecting to play a game in 2025 with a card from 2018, maybe you need to adjust your expectations
soft gyro
depends on what game
woven escarp
sure, league will always run on a toaster
heavy lintel
Are we talking about a game from 2013* getting RT support so it can be up to date in 2025?
soft gyro
if you expect to play a tabletop game that only supports raytracing, but want to play on an older card.
woven escarp
I don't think XIV will ever get raytracing support because the lighting engine barely works as it is
if they tried to make a custom physically-based rendering engine they'd just break everything
it's so much work to implement they'd be better off rebuilding the game for UE5
soft gyro
Are we talking about a game from 2013* getting RT support so it can be up to dat...
nah, i think we generally talking about new games using the new rt features.
woven escarp
and they've already said multiple times that if they need to do that much work they'll just make a new MMO instead
so yeah, maybe FFXIX will have raytracing
heavy lintel
nah, i think we generally talking about new games using the new rt features.
Oh, I was a bit worried for a moment there
woven escarp
but my original proposition was that raytracing will be much less demanding when the game engine is built around it
instead of being a hacked-in prototype that tries to reuse existing code as much as possible
soft gyro
also, i just bought a rtx 2070 super a few months ago, so it would suck if that would get outdated cause a few games require only full raytracing capabilities
woven escarp
I suspect UE5 will be much less demanding than UE4
since they're including a ton of efficiency upgrades in UE5
soft gyro
b-b-but not all games run on unreal engine
woven escarp
I mean, even SE has learned their lesson
there's only three major players right now, UE, frostbite, unity
random ravine
what engine does FFXIV use?
random ravine
which games use luminous
woven escarp
but it's so heavily modified you can't really call it a luminous engine anymore
dim sigil
Only 15 i think
dim sigil
Wasnt 13 somthing called crystal tools
woven escarp
yeah, crystal tools became luminous, as far as I know
heavy lintel
yes, though crystal tools ended up being retooled into luminous I think
dim sigil
And now project athia is using Lum
To a point where
If it's not plot related which it probably isn't there is straight up ff15 Assets in that trailer at least at the end it looks like or it's just a coincidence
woven escarp
XVI?
soft gyro
when i search up luminous engine, i see no mention of it being a part of crystal tools https://img.thaun.dev/my1rr.png
heady shadow
woven escarp
but the major takeaway from the saga of luminous is that SE realized maintaining their own custom engine is a lot of work
and they signed a licensing agreement with UE in like, 2018
woven escarp
FFVIIR is UE
soft gyro
btw, the list is for "ffxiv 1.0", it should say
soft gyro
kinda don't like when "Final Fantasy XIV" is used in general to mention 1.0
and not the opposite
maiden lodge
Crystal Tools>Luminous as is FFXIV 1.0>FFXIV ARR. There's data structures in common but there's so much different that you can't call them the same thing.
woven escarp
but to retool luminous to support HDR and raytracing is an obscene amount of effort
maiden lodge
It is. And unnecessary.
woven escarp
it's a nice to have if you're starting tabula rasa
but trying to modify it after you've shipped is just a waste
maiden lodge
Depends on your target audience.
woven escarp
I expect that FFVIIR parts 3 and 4 will have it
maiden lodge
But yeah
woven escarp
because they'll be PS5 releases
random ravine
how is the luminous engine compared to other modern engines?
maiden lodge
how is the luminous engine compared to other modern engines?
It's 10 years old in FF14
woven escarp
it's also pretty crusty under the hood because it's been so extensively modified
a lot of the things people want SE to fix in XIV just can't be fixed because of how the code is layered
soft gyro
the main branch of the luminous engine is probably much more developed than ffxiv engine
woven escarp
XIV is using a lot of cutting edge stuff that makes the MMO magic work
whenever CBU3 develops something new for XIV it gets rolled back into the main game
maiden lodge
a lot of the things people want SE to fix in XIV just can't be fixed because of ...
A lot of things people want to fix (outside of player draw limits for outdoor things) is just them wanting SE to pay money because they spent hard on their rigs.
woven escarp
the player draw limit in XIV is criminally low, yeah
soft gyro
for example in castrum
woven escarp
but like, even with the limit it has the engine grinds to a halt when you go to an S rank
maiden lodge
Yeah.
soft gyro
so many people joined castrum, you can't see how many people are in bot
maiden lodge
But outside that most of it is 'I don't want my game to look like a modern MMO but like crisis baaaawwww'
soft gyro
'just go play ffxi'
random ravine
one thing i am amazed is how stable the FFXIV game is
skyrim would crash on me every hour
even without mods
woven escarp
XIV's engine is remarkably reliable for how complex it is
soft gyro
cause they are constantly updating with new patches
maiden lodge
one thing i am amazed is how stable the FFXIV game is
Has been since day one.
woven escarp
even the 1.0 engine wasn't too bad for crashing
it was just shit on because optimization is hard
soft gyro
but skyrim is like a one-time-purchase game, so you won't get much updates compared to a live service game
woven escarp
maiden lodge
even the 1.0 engine wasn't too bad for crashing
https://tenor.com/view/will-ferrell-elf-buddy-the-elf-throne-of-lies-christmas-gif-3580667
1.0's crashing issues were legendary.
maiden lodge
cause they are constantly updating with new patches
Naw, FFXIV 2.0 released day 1 in an extremely stable state, server overload not-withstanding. Major crashing bugs have been rare--the last one I remember is 'don't sit before doing Susano'
soft gyro
i mean, yeah you wouldnt want to release a broken game, again.
woven escarp
there's the occasional directX bug but those seem to be pretty rare
maiden lodge
there's the occasional directX bug but those seem to be pretty rare
For a cross-platform game, yeah, it's very solid. FFs usually are though, in that department.
heady shadow
honestly if they wanted to go better.
they would end ffxiv in say 8.0, put it on maint mode.
then make FF XXIV on the good shit
random ravine
are FF games usually pretty crash resistant?
after years of playing skyrim, dragon age, NWN, i'm used to games crashing fairly regularly
maiden lodge
are FF games usually pretty crash resistant?
Yeah, it's one thing you can generally count on
It's why ff14 1.0 being a botch in that regard was such a pisser.
random ravine
luminous engine probably has some exceptional memory handling capabilities
maiden lodge
luminous engine probably has some exceptional memory handling capabilities
It'd have to!
dim sigil
I cannot fathom playing a game that constantly crashes that sounds so annoying
heady shadow
skyrim crashes because the engine its on is a pice of shit
woven escarp
that's the biggest reason most games crash
dim sigil
15 crashed on me only one after like several hundred hours and that was still annoying even if it did autosave
woven escarp
you can reliably blow up source engine games by feeding it too many entities to track at once
entity overflow = tits up
every time
maiden lodge
Skyrim's built on the same engine as heckin Oblivion--hell all the Bethesda games for the past fuckton of years are
woven escarp
I wonder how robust the XIV engine really is, since SE carefully manages the game so the lumps never get exposed
random ravine
Skyrim's built on the same engine as heckin Oblivion--hell all the Bethesda game...
even fallout?
maiden lodge
Bethesda's invested, instead, in leaning on customer goodwill and 'oh well it's a big sandbox so shit's gonna sometimes go wierd' which only goes so far
maiden lodge
even fallout?
Especially Fallout--what, you think Skyrim having the Fallout lockpicking minigame was an accident?
heady shadow
so fucking lazy they would even state: let the modders fix it
woven escarp
Bethesda's invested, instead, in leaning on customer goodwill and 'oh well it's ...
no, bethesda invested in having the customers make the game playable for them
random ravine
what amazes me is how buggy the Creation Kit is
woven escarp
they can make an open beta build and release the toolkit for the game
random ravine
half the mods on nexus are fixes to creation kit
woven escarp
and watch the community fix their game for free
maiden lodge
Like I'd like to say bethesda wasn't always like this but
$spellnaming bug
woven escarp
I remember them making an awful terminator game back in like, 95
that crashed every 40 minutes or so
random ravine
has anyone here tried TES online?
soft gyro
fallout 76 is basically fallout 4 but slapped on with mmo features
woven escarp
that's because FO76 wasn't supposed to allow you to cheat lmao
but it's bethesda so all the cheats for any bethesda game will work
biggus brainus
heady shadow
now everything uses nukes
gaunt star
Ban the gpose modders!
Maybe if they did that I wouldn’t be running into single pack pull tanks 2 years into the expansion and healers who fail mechs on years old dungeons
Also please do not add a level 80 boost thank you 
kindred rampart
you'll always run into those regardless
so many play the game blindly and don't care to learn anything
as long as it's fun to them 
pastel coyote
Make dungeon as hard fun than the burn
gaunt star
The burn is too easy
next quarry
last boss is rough for some
gaunt star
I can’t even think of an actual challenge in any recent dungeon
How clueless do you have to be to mess up mist dragon
rain onyx
Dungeons are baseline difficulty
pastel coyote
casual level clueless
woven escarp
mist dragon is funny because it does a lot of damage if you're not prepared for it
like, you actually have to heal during that fight
pastel coyote
and make solo duty fun too, 3 skill and ton of hp isn't fun
high swan
Difficulty from dungeons comes in the first time through them
rain onyx
The Burn is probably the first dungeon in a while with a boss that actually hurts
high swan
and ofc, those brooms. Those brooms in that dungeon
pastel coyote
Actually there is a boss in some 50 hard who can kick some ass because people don't know the mechanic
That random archer who die
high swan
They should make all dungeons in the upcoming expansion have insta kill mechanics if failed
rain onyx
K
tardy elm
K
pastel coyote
i don't think i'm good, i mean i don't even try EX or savage (unless someone drag me into it) but delubrum is fun (less when people keep getting hit and it take almost 50min)
oak pike
the burn is pain with new people
high swan
all bosses should also have enrage ti,mers
gaunt star
The only long run of Dr that I had was literally the first run of the day it dropped
After that it was normal
oak pike
the mist dragon is bs at times
pastel coyote
The game should be a pain when you discover it
maiden lodge
the mist dragon is bs at times
!action Esuna
lusty shadowBOT
Powered by XIVAPI
oak pike
lol esuna
pastel coyote
Well the 2nd boss from dohn mheg have something like an enrage
gaunt star
Good
maiden lodge
I mean if you're gonna cast something, misewell cleanse the damage so it doesn't happen
oak pike
oh yeah the growth thing
woven escarp
exuviation 😌
pastel coyote
And half the time i'm with someone who need to be kicked because.... he can't even kill his root
oak pike
honestly when i played SCH in don mehg the dps kep stacking on me and i jsut art of war the binds
pastel coyote
well that's the idea
high swan
You know the positional mechanic, where if you attack a boss from a certain side it hurts you
That should instant kill
high swan
i have yet to do it
woven escarp
directional parry is annoying because you have to watch the boss animations for it
high swan
i want 1 hit, even on tanks
gaunt star
When are healers getting upgraded aoes
high swan
😮
tardy elm
When are Gunbreakers getting more than 1 glowing weapon craft?
gaunt star
When the dev who works on chocobo racing and ultimate decides he wants to work on them in his free time
viscid monolith
Several of them
maiden lodge
Mr Atma has fuck all to do with assets.
maiden lodge
directional parry is annoying because you have to watch the boss animations for ...
It's annoying when you're a caster and you ARE paying attention for it
'Oh I'm in the last 0.5 second of animation as I find out where I need to stand, guess I die'
gaunt star
People thinking Valkyrie is going to be the next class because of bravely default not realizing it’s literally just a reskin of dragoon
tardy elm
Will Merylb ever change clothes in 6.0?
gaunt star
She technically could seeing as how she’s not a unique model but probably not
tardy elm
What about Kan-E?
pastel coyote
well 140min left for delubrum, decent run i guess
gaunt star
She’s the same kind of model as the twins (I think) so any clothes for her would have to be taken from something fitting that child model
heady shadow
uh...
merlyb afaik is a unique model ported from 1.0
you almost never see her fight either
woven escarp
same with minfilia
and yda
although yda is technically just a midlander F since you never see her face
heady shadow
even the part when shes killing pirates the camera doesnt have her in the shop but four or five times
gaunt star
Only her face is unique
placid sail
I really want to know which other new areas we're going to get...
Sharlayan is the most obvious candidate
maybe we will get to see inland Hingashi?
some part of Dalmasca or Nagxia?
Aerslaent?
oblique sedge
I finally caught up. That endwalker trailer is dope! What job was the WOL?
placid sail
he's a paladin
random ravine
light knight
oblique sedge
which is paladin? gladiator?
placid sail
yeah
oblique sedge
oh wow another tank. also wow holy fuck alphinaud got sage. pog
placid sail
yeah derplander is always melee jobs
oblique sedge
Took me 37 days and I'm finally done and catched up. fuck me what an experience
oblique sedge
yeah derplander is always melee jobs
Archer
placid sail
probably because those make better cinematics
oh right
he was archer that one time for 1.0
random ravine
hyur too dumb to use magic
forest magnet
PLD looks really unimpressive in this cinematic tho
oblique sedge
I like to call him ardbert 2.0 LOL
placid sail
he's been tanks and dps, I want to see a healer derplander
oblique sedge
sage maybe. but idk if healers can do much solo
pastel coyote
sure wait for 7.0 with "time to heal meracydia"
oblique sedge
God I am so relieved I can finally sleep well now that I'm done
forest magnet
lore-wise WHM are as strong as BLM
oblique sedge
Also I've been wanting to talk about this but is there a class/job that use a scythe
placid sail
the raids and trials?
oblique sedge
I don't think so. I focused on the msq
forest magnet
Also I've been wanting to talk about this but is there a class/job that use a sc...
Botanist
oblique sedge
Oh I wanna do the nier raids but I skipped on the omega one in stormblood
pastel coyote
Joke on you then
placid sail
understandable tbh
placid sail
but if you have time you should check them out
oblique sedge
I know rajit used one so I assume that is what zeno will be and that will be a new job
placid sail
especially Eden
oblique sedge
I heard of eden. where do I go for that one and nier?
I really wanna see how nier works in this world
placid sail
Nier starts in Kholusia
pastel coyote
the only thing that is "side" about side trial/raid/anything is the name
placid sail
yeah go do that first actually, it drops gear
great way to gear up
Eden starts in...
I don't remember where the start point is actually?
probably in the Crystarium
pastel coyote
if it wasn't for the "side" content we probably wouldn't be able to predict most of the new content
placid sail
I mean they matter but
forest magnet
yes crystarium is where eden starts
placid sail
you can put most of them off
pastel coyote
i will stick with "3 raid/trial were essential for shb"
forest magnet
which trial?
pastel coyote
omega ?
forest magnet
that's not a trial
oblique sedge
Found the eden quest
pastel coyote
it's 8 so it's trial for me
oblique sedge
Oh so thats the white thing in the burn looking area
oh and my reaction to realizing who the exarch was 
dawn basin
You know what I'd like to see?
I'd like to see an instance where the Warrior of Light finally cracks even if just for a moment, where they think that finally, they found something they just CAN'T do.
And then we get an instance like in FF9 where We try to abandon everyone and finish this ourselves, except they wont abandon US. (Also a remade version of "You're not alone" would be awesome Soken pls make it happen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKAoSY5bhSw&ab_channel=AdamWoodhouse )
pastel coyote
Well it was pretty obvious for the exarch
forest magnet
You know what I'd like to see?
I'd like to see an instance where the Warrior of...
that's literally what happens before u go to Amaurot
We literally have no options left for curing our light sickness
None.
Alisae breaks down because there's literally nothing they can do
Because for the first (and probably only) time in the entire MSQ you meet a problem that can't be beaten by sheer force.
oblique sedge
btw are there any side quests in the first that have the scions in it which would be hella funny
forest magnet
Which is why 6.0, even with Ishikawa writing it, won't be able to match what SHB brought.
dawn basin
And then we got to go to amaurot and beat it by sheer force... but we'll just skim over that
oblique sedge
What even happened to the light we had? is ardbert seriously apart of me now?
he can see me do all the erp? 
digital radish
forest magnet
he can see me do all the erp? <:KEKW:636401979819556894>
yes
which is why "roleplaying" is kinda weird given the context of the game
dawn basin
I think in the Dying Gasp, we unleash the trapped light as Hades engulfs the fight in darkness
forest magnet
now that it's explicitly given your character a backstory
compare that to something like WoW where you're just some random schmuck
and not the reincarnation of one of the most powerful beings to ever exist
dawn basin
I do know that I wanna see more of us finding more about Azem.
oblique sedge
Meanwhile in destiny. Everyone is special
As long as you're a guardian
Which makes roleplaying easier.. if it had any
to be fair in the first people think they are warriors of light so that can be an excuse
forest magnet
Meanwhile in destiny. Everyone is special
I guess that's how KOTOR rp works
dawn basin
Now then, lets talk about what might happen with Fandaniel
forest magnet
He's the Vauthry of 6.0 and we'll kick his ass
oblique sedge
Oh my god I WAS RIGHT
forest magnet
Basic ass villain that plays second fiddle to the bigger baddie
oblique sedge
Now this is breaking immersion when you complete 5.3
dawn basin
I'm thinking fandaniel will be 14's Kuja. Hell he even has lunar bahamut to kujas silver dragon
oblique sedge
are there more sidequests with the scions in it? this is so immersion breaking XD
dawn basin
in which case, he'll most likely be the second to last msq boss with the penultimate trial being Zodiark himself.
And given the fact that Zodiark is the SPITTING IMAGE of Necron, it'd make sense
pastel coyote
heh i don't feel any kuja vibe from him
forest magnet
Zenos will obviously fuse with Zodiark and we'll get "Zenomus" as the final boss.
dawn basin
You dont? They're both drama queens who want to take everything with them
enough vibe for me
forest magnet
Kefka
dawn basin
Did kefka have a dragon?
pastel coyote
To me kuja is closer to emet in a sense
oblique sedge
why not combine both fandaniel, zenos and zodiard. 3 headed something LOL
forest magnet
I mean Fandaniel doesn't seem that intimidating
he waited until Elidibus and Emet Selch were dead
which implies he would've gotten his shit pushed in by either of them
which would mean we'd kick his ass
given we've beaten both of them
oblique sedge
have we ever seen fandaniel before?
oblique sedge
Thats it?
random ravine
yes we have seen fandaniel
forest magnet
wdym "that's it"
dawn basin
Never underestimate the ferocity of a rabid dog whos leash is broken
oblique sedge
Like any reference way back
forest magnet
5.1
pastel coyote
Did you... really finish the msq so far ?
forest magnet
that's literally it
dawn basin
The unsundered were the ONLY thing keeping fandaniel in check. Without them hes free to run wild, who knows what power he kept bottled away
oblique sedge
which btw. otherwise the katan is weak or zenos is hella heavy lol
forest magnet
The unsundered were the ONLY thing keeping fandaniel in check. Without them hes ...
keep in check how?
oblique sedge
The unsundered were the ONLY thing keeping fandaniel in check. Without them hes ...
Oh
Oh no
pastel coyote
Given what he said it's not speculation
forest magnet
how exactly would the unsundered keep Fandaniel in check besides the obvious "i'll fuckin kill u"
because if that's how they enforced Fandaniel then it stands to reason we'd easily kick his ass
Even Zenos threatened to kill Fandaniel
and if Zenos can kill him so can we
pastel coyote
You know the difference between us and the unsundered right ? They don't care if he kill a bunch of people before they catch him
"We" care
oblique sedge
Oh yeah
BTW the original forms the asciens take in shaodowbringer. is that their true form or just a shadow of their memory?
viscid monolith
They wore cloaks and masks. Didn't look like grey blobs though.
oblique sedge
but yet faded away at times
But when emet showed up, It made me question it
emet in the 5.3 fight I mean
viscid monolith
What faded away at times
forest magnet
no they didn't fade
he's talking about the Ancients that walk and then disappear
and then fade back in
oblique sedge
The memories that emet created in amaurot
cosmic herald
"When you've healed all there is to heal, there may be in weave in some offensive magicks."
forest magnet
?
craggy pawn
I think he means the people in the fake amaurot
woven escarp
You know the difference between us and the unsundered right ? They don't care if...
they do care, because not everyone on the source is an unmatched duplicate
if fandaniel kills the wrong people, he'll have fucked up the symmetry for the shards and the rejoining won't recover everyone
fandaniel is himself an asymmetric ascian and when the rejoining happens he'll be erased, which is why he's mad as a fucking hatter
viscid monolith
fandaniel is himself an asymmetric ascian and when the rejoining happens he'll b...
Huh what
woven escarp
he's a sundered
which means that when the rejoining happens he gets fucked
he doesn't win if emet wins
dim sigil
Wouldn't the original real fandan come back then
woven escarp
I don't think there is one
he'd just get matched against the original template for the planet, which doesn't include him
dim sigil
Isn't he a convocation number so there had to be an original that he used to be
woven escarp
the thing is that the convocation numbers are titles, not people
and as a sundered he may not have even been present for the original event
dim sigil
I was under the impression the raised ascians are the shards of those members
heady shadow
he may not even be the original fandaniel
could be a asshole
who stole the title from someone else
woven escarp
ye
as far as I know, even emet and elidibus aren't the originals
they're just the most dedicated to filling their roles in the convocation
gaunt star
i mean one leaves the other is replaced no biggy 
woven escarp
more like one dies the other is replaced
the WOLs have been busy over the millennia
gaunt star
yeah whatever xd
heady shadow
i mean emet we know is just someone who allegedly is one of azems good friends
which apparently he either didnt know who we were, or was just tsundere
dim sigil
I always feel unsure if he actually knew who we were or he didn't cuz it's like could be either
tulip geyser
He definitely knew. He gets almost familiar with the WoL at times, like at the lift, then he catches himself.
But he doesnt want to believe it because its not really "you" in his eyes.
But it is why he's super mad after the Trial instead of "lol you fell into my trap" because he wanted to believe you could be yourself after a bit of prompting
maiden lodge
he may not even be the original fandaniel
He assuredly is not the original.
All the originals are from the source. There are only three Paragons of the Source, Emma, Elly, and Lulu. The other ten are Paragons of the Shards, and not native to the Source, and therefore, not native to the pre-sundering world, and therefore, not of the original Convocation.
gaunt star
He got shocked after we rejoined with ardbert and then "remember us"
maiden lodge
And, yes, Emet recognized us before that point
tulip geyser
Yes because we did something that seemed impossible, that is, having a shard join with us without a whole world rejoining
maiden lodge
He's an expert at looking at people's souls. Like, 'not as good as Hythlodaeus' but still a fucking prodigy at it. He says his plan is for us to transform into a sin eater in front of everyone to produce despair and then says 'okay but here's this museum of Ascian history I literally made that responds to you by name that you can do this in with dignity so, you know... come on over to play nintendos'
tardy elm
How did Emet appear at the end when he was already dead?
maiden lodge
How did Emet appear at the end when he was already dead?
Because he's the god damn Lord of the Underworld.
He's literally, without hyperbole, the absolute BEST at lifestream magics.
And he did not die trapped in auracite, he died in a 'normal' way with a sword of light yeeted through him, which apparently untempered him, and allowed him full access to his own faculties.
heady shadow
no
maiden lodge
no
Yes, it's actually in the short story.
The poem at the end takes place after elidibus is dead.
viscid monolith
which means that when the rejoining happens he gets fucked
He'll be fine. Once the final rejoining happens he'll be complete and already have the memories of his past lives.
Elidibus never mentioned anything about sacrificing the Ascians
maiden lodge
He'll be fine. Once the final rejoining happens he'll be complete and already ha...
That's the opposite of fine--that means his identity will be taken over by some other dude
viscid monolith
Why would that happen
maiden lodge
The 1/14 won't take over the 13/14.
tulip geyser
Wait
viscid monolith
Going off the timeline of events the first set of sundered Ascians survived the sundering
tulip geyser
Isnt the point that he IS the shard of Fandaniel because its not like his body was alive to have another personality
maiden lodge
Going off the timeline of events the first set of sundered Ascians survived the ...
While that may be, that doesn't matter. The ten that aren't the Unsundered are Paragons of the Shards.
viscid monolith
The ones that experienced the actual sundering I mean. You know 14 versions of each one
maiden lodge
Whoever survived the rejoining is not of the Shard.
viscid monolith
So they died. Each copy died due to a shortened lifespan
maiden lodge
Plus surviving rejoining--their memories were blipped.
tardy elm
So why is it bad for all the shards to return/rejoin to the source?
Isn’t that a good thing long term?
gaunt star
People die
maiden lodge
So why is it bad for all the shards to return/rejoin to the source?
Two reasons.
- It destroys an entire world and every living person on it.
- Cataclysms are bad for the people on the Source.
gaunt star
viscid monolith
Why would they get they memories back? The original Fandaniels are dead.
maiden lodge
It's not good in the long term either, because the end result is 'And then a blood god eats everyone because Emet-selch is a loneliboi'
tardy elm
What are the benefits to the rejoining?
viscid monolith
I don't even think the WoL would get all their memories back if they were to be fully rejoined. I just don't see the logic in it.
maiden lodge
Zodiark is recompleted, established at his full power, and then the Ascians use him to sacrifice all life to bring back their loved ones.
That's the benefit.
gaunt star
They want to sacrifice the survivors of the rejoining to summon zodiark so zodiark can revive the ancient who sacrificed themselves to summon him
oak pike
Ascians wants their people back while everyone else is trying to not die
maiden lodge
For a breif moment everyone has almost unlimited aether reserves to do magicks with as well, but.... eh.
tardy elm
What if the rejoining happens and the ascians do nothing for zodiarch
viscid monolith
After the sundering there were 14 Azems on on each shard and each one had all of their memories intact. Then all 14 Azems died. The memories are gone because the lifestream seemingly bleaches souls of mnemonic aether.
maiden lodge
What if the rejoining happens and the ascians do nothing for zodiarch
That'd require the Ascians to be successful and just give up. That wouldn't happen under Elidibus or Emet-selch.
Especially not under Elidibus.
maiden lodge
After the sundering there were 14 Azems on on each shard and each one had all of...
Well we don't know if they had thier memories intact. The Sundering blipped memories.
viscid monolith
It did?
maiden lodge
Yep.
tulip geyser
Yes
gaunt star
Yas
maiden lodge
Hydaelyn does have a habit of blipping memories when it's inconvenient to her
tulip geyser
Thats part of why humans get tricked by the same "Free kill ur enemies " button the Ascians come up with for rejoinings
gaunt star
Well the Ancients would get extinct with or without her so
viscid monolith
I thought he meant people forgot over the course of generations not instantly
gaunt star
She did em a favour
oak pike
Fandaniel have his memories right?
maiden lodge
I thought he meant people forgot over the course of generations not instantly
Nope, the copies did not have memories--it's what forced the Unsundered to make the memory crystals in the first place.
gaunt star
Their souls split into 14 shards, id be surprised if they remembered anything
maiden lodge
Fandaniel have his memories right?
Sketchy question. I'd assume he'd have the memories from the crystal of Fandaniel.
But I doubt he'd have memories of the sundering directly
oak pike
So kind of but leaning no
viscid monolith
I guess Azem was such a good guy he became the Warrior of Light even without all his memories
maiden lodge
He might, however, be an exception, depending on what this 'Telephoroi' business is about
gaunt star
Idk how Azem would want to ERP tho
viscid monolith
At least 2 Azems became the Warrior of Light
tulip geyser
I'm sure Azem has some shitlord shards now and again. I mean we're probably some random voidsent on the 13th atm
somber storm
Azim
next quarry
I wonder what Azem's true name was
somber storm
Frank
gaunt star
Doesn't matter tbh
somber storm
Or it could be that player's name
next quarry
yeah but I'm curious
gaunt star
Titles matter the most
maiden lodge
I wonder what Azem's true name was
Xxsephirothxx Cloudstrife
gaunt star
Also azem sigil pls mr square enix
somber storm
Titles matter the most <a:PaimonCookies:740300330490921042>
<<Perfect Legend>>
maiden lodge
Also azem sigil pls mr square enix
My money is on the burning sun sigil on the ground before you do Seat of Sacrifice
gaunt star
<<Perfect Legend>>
Nah member of convocation> lame ass ugly fake title from trashltimates
somber storm
It would be a real surprise if we see that Azem's true name is our WoL's name
gaunt star
My money is on the burning sun sigil on the ground before you do Seat of Sacrifi...
Yeah i know but i kinda wanna see it pop up on our face
A yellow sigil
gaunt star
maiden lodge
It's the blue target marker
oak pike
Man I forgot about pashtarot existing
maiden lodge
We've been seeing it the entire time
oak pike
maiden lodge
Pashtarot's just been taking a long vacay
tardy elm
How come the WoL can travel between sources and others can’t? They said anyone can be a WoL
maiden lodge
'You know what, I'll sit this shit out'
viscid monolith
How come the WoL can travel between sources and others can’t? They said anyone c...
Because Graha performed the spell on us correctly
somber storm
Pashtarot got that Yoshi-P hair
tulip geyser
How come the WoL can travel between sources and others can’t? They said anyone c...
The spell to call them was very specific
oak pike
And then there’s the Ascian who gave mide the item to summon Alexander he’s gone
gaunt star
Travachet?
maiden lodge
How come the WoL can travel between sources and others can’t? They said anyone c...
G'raha Tia used the Crystal Tower to develop a brand new spell that allows him to call a body across the rift. Before then, only Omega had that power. Once the body was across the rift, the attunement to aetherytes on the Source permitted him to return, and Feo Ul could use THAT to move anything else the WoL owned.
oak pike
Ye
maiden lodge
That said, the 13th can also in theory be used, as it allows direct travel to and from it.
viscid monolith
G'raha Tia used the Crystal Tower to develop a brand new spell that allows him t...
Well I don't quite know if those are the same Rifts
maiden lodge
But that's HIGHLY dangerous.
viscid monolith
Omega had complete control over the Interdimensional Rift
gaunt star
Hoping 6.x has an arc over shards 
maiden lodge
Well I don't quite know if those are the same Rifts
We do. We know Omega is directly what they studied to get the crystal tower across the Rift in the first place.
tardy elm
So can someone cast a spell on Gaia and bring her to the source?
viscid monolith
Oh ya forgot about that. So how did Omega have so much control I wonder
tulip geyser
If she learns her powers she can do it herself
maiden lodge
So can someone cast a spell on Gaia and bring her to the source?
In theory, however there is a cost.
heady shadow
Mr fake name Travichet is lurking
somber storm
Crystal Tower, Alexander, Omega
heady shadow
whereever the hell he is
viscid monolith
Gaia needs to die of she wants to travel the rift using her power
maiden lodge
Doing so requires a huge ass power source, and the only thing we know of that can handle that level of power is the Crystal Tower. The only way to do that is to fuse with it, and G'raha Tia does not seem capable and/or willing to do that again.
G'raha's Allagan Royal Blood is losing power anyways
viscid monolith
A new means of traveling without offing yourself needs to be developed
oak pike
I personally wouldn’t want to use the crystal tower a lot if I was g’rah
maiden lodge
So that means may be lost to us. However, without fusing, the Tower can be used to open a portal to the 13th. If Gaia and Ryne hook up with one of our Void mage bros, then they could use that. Not many people could make that trip safely though.
viscid monolith
So what did fusing with the tower turn his blood to crystal so he wouldn't lose his Allagan blood
maiden lodge
Gaia and Ryne are pretty much the only ones who could safely go across, Gaia using her Ascian powers, and Ryne using her Oracle of Lightness.
tardy elm
Omega story bored me, so I didn’t pay attention. How does it fit into the spell? I thought it was an alien device that the Garleans found and tried to use as a weapon, but Cid reprogrammed it to destroy the Garlean super weapon and it was never seen again, then it abducts you and puts the WoL against enemies to study it.?
maiden lodge
So what did fusing with the tower turn his blood to crystal so he wouldn't lose ...
No, it gave him further control over the tower to push its limits beyond what it normally could do. But, as you know, it was killing him.
viscid monolith
Gaia and Ryne are pretty much the only ones who could safely go across, Gaia usi...
They would still need to shed their bodies though
maiden lodge
They would still need to shed their bodies though
No, they just step across a voidrift.
You know, like voidsent do.
And there's two casters of voidrift magic on the First working on the problem of the Thirteenth as of right now
viscid monolith
No, it gave him further control over the tower to push its limits beyond what it...
But Graha was alive for over 100 years and losing his Allagan blood wasn't a problem
tardy elm
Gaia’s an Asician? Since when?
maiden lodge
But Graha was alive for over 100 years and losing his Allagan blood wasn't a pro...
He was alive for 100 years, turning into a statue, yes, it was a problem.
viscid monolith
Oh ya Gaia can open voidgates. But how would Ryne be able to do it?
maiden lodge
That's like telling an old guy 'Look, you didn't have osteoporosis when you were in your 40s how can it be a problem now?!'
maiden lodge
Oh ya Gaia can open voidgates. But how would Ryne be able to do it?
Not Gaia, but yeah, also Gaia.
oak pike
And there's two casters of voidrift magic on the First working on the problem of...
wasn't that one guy from the mage dps role quests?
maiden lodge
wasn't that one guy from the mage dps role quests?
Yep, and he's working with another now.
viscid monolith
He was alive for 100 years, turning into a statue, yes, it was a problem.
He was still active alive. Why did his royal blood out during that time?
oak pike
man the mage role quest was good
viscid monolith
My first question was if his body crystalizing slowed or stopped this other issue from happening
maiden lodge
He was still active alive. Why did his royal blood out during that time?
Dude's OLD man, he's fused with the tower then his soul was reborn--and the allagan royal blood wasn't a permanent thing anyways.
tardy elm
What happened to the clones? Unei and doga?
somber storm
Dead
maiden lodge
Gaia’s an Asician? Since when?
'Always has been'
She's not an Ascian by affiliation, she's the reincarnation of one.
viscid monolith
Dude's OLD man, he's fused with the tower then his soul was reborn--and the alla...
He is in a second body now. His other body should have lost its royal blood effect a long time ago is my point
oak pike
Gaia’s an Asician? Since when?
since edens promise
tulip geyser
Once the Allagan blood runs out thats it and you can guarantee itll run out at a really inconvenient moment
maiden lodge
But she has the powers of that Ascian and has since day 1
maiden lodge
He is in a second body now. His other body should have lost its royal blood effe...
Yeah, unless it's a soul-thing
viscid monolith
Why didn't Exarch have this problem is my question
oak pike
in hindsight her being the oracle of darkness was a big hint
maiden lodge
Why didn't *Exarch* have this problem is my question
Again, that's like asking a really old man why he hasn't suffered from his old man problems when he was young.
gaunt star
Gaia’s an Asician? Since when?
Gaia was Loghrif
maiden lodge
That time is the reason it's thinning.
And probably related to why he HAD to fuse with the tower as badly as he did.
viscid monolith
It's weird that he was alive all that time and didn't have this problem, and now is suddenly having this problem in a younger body identical to the other one.
Yes. That was my question. Thank you.
maiden lodge
It's weird that he was alive all that time and didn't have this problem, and now...
Buddy was literally killing himself by fusing to the tower to get his blood into crystals. Are you sure he had no problem?
tardy elm
If Tia brought the crystal tower, shouldn’t Unei and Doga be inside with him in the Crystarium?
maiden lodge
Also, artificially extending his life
gaunt star
Pretty sure the clones stayed on the void shard
maiden lodge
in hindsight her being the oracle of darkness was a big hint
As was her aether being similar to Emet-selchs
viscid monolith
Buddy was literally killing himself by fusing to the tower to get his blood into...
Ya looks like it. He still had full control of the tower after 100 years so it seems like fusing with the tower stopped the degradation of his royal blood.
maiden lodge
Ya looks like it. He still had full control of the tower after 100 years so it s...
OR made up for it.
Or accelerated its fading
oak pike
like g'rah is dying pretty much
maiden lodge
I mean he's not dying NOW.
tardy elm
The crystal in my watch is broken
maiden lodge
But he's not about to do the same 'fuse with the tower' thing
viscid monolith
If it accelerated the fading then he would have lost it on the first
maiden lodge
If it accelerated the fading then he would have lost it on the first
Not necessarily.
It could have been a slow degradation over time.
viscid monolith
The way the fading is brought up makes it sound like this is a thing that will happen in his natural lifetime. Otherwise why even bring it up?
maiden lodge
Also, another reason it could be: He literally transfered it into crystals, so that literally could be what started it.
viscid monolith
I expect it to be a plot point.
maiden lodge
Or perhaps an explanation why he can't just 'Call' Ryne or Gaia to the Source
viscid monolith
His other body transfered it. This is his new younger body.
maiden lodge
His other body transfered it. This is his new younger body.
If it's a soul-related thing, that doesn't matter.
And, yeah, it's probably a soul-related thing.
viscid monolith
That would be weird but another explanation
maiden lodge
Not at all. He used it in the first place to transfer the Scions' souls.
So it stands to reason there's SOME soul-connection there
oak pike
man i do hope gaia and ryne returns even in side content
maiden lodge
They will.
I am absolutely 100% certain they will
After 8 years of never abandoning old content, do people legitimately expect them to orphan the First?
tardy elm
Can you travel to the Second or only the First?
tulip geyser
Having people connected specifically to the overarching aspects might come up later with what we're heading into
maiden lodge
Can you travel to the Second or only the First?
The First, we've never been to the Second so can't use aetherytes.
heady shadow
maybe for 6.0 they will.
depending how it ends.
6.1 on could have chances
maiden lodge
Here's my thought---who is to say the final days are even restricted to the Source?
heady shadow
then it would be shard hopping
maiden lodge
We have underwater troves of information on the past and the Final Days at our disposal, on the First.
Like either of those -alone- is sufficient to pull the First in.
We have Y'shtola actively researching how to get back
tulip geyser
Here's my thought---who is to say the final days are even restricted to the Sour...
Even if they werent Im sure Fandaniel wouldnt stop at the Source
maiden lodge
We have two voidboys and grannyelfghost working on how to fix a shard that's unresolved
We have The Good Ship Coffee Biscuits and Lipstick deciding they'll find a way to the Source
heady shadow
okay then so question
maiden lodge
Why would anyone think they're done with the First?
heady shadow
whats to stop the devs from making the first do a timeskip for a couple decades?
maiden lodge
whats to stop the devs from making the first do a timeskip for a couple decades?
Beast Tribes.
tardy elm
So are all the sin Eaters gone on the first?
tulip geyser
I wouldnt mind it for the sake of story but I know it wont happen
maiden lodge
So are all the sin Eaters gone on the first?
No.
tardy elm
Why not?
heady shadow
ye but those will be done with in 5.55 no?
oak pike
and sin eaters can still create more sin eaters
maiden lodge
ye but those will be done with in 5.55 no?
No,they won't be done with, no more than Namazu are done with.
viscid monolith
There might still be sin eaters out in the the empty, and when the land reawakens so will they.
maiden lodge
and sin eaters can still create more sin eaters
It's harder for them to now though, without the world itself being corrupted light.
maiden lodge
The big problem with sin eaters wasn't the corruption, it was the inability to purge it because of Everlasting Light--that's why solving it actually stopped the patients of the Inn from progressing in their symptoms
You'd need a sineater on par of power with a Cardinal Virtue, or a Lightwarden, or Eden, to keep it up.
heady shadow
well i'll take a seat on the backburner when ti comes to speculations
tardy elm
So if the WoL leaves the first, the first could get overrun with sin eaters?
viscid monolith
Strangely enough even when Eden reawakened there wasn't any everlasting light
tulip geyser
So if the WoL leaves the first, the first could get overrun with sin eaters?
Now that the world is recovering its unlikely, especially now that the First has more native WoLs anyhow now
oak pike
the name sinner is cool
somber storm
Sin Eater Namazu
Also yeah, there be a lot more people with the echo in the first now
maiden lodge
Now that the world is recovering its unlikely, especially now that the First has...
That and no Lightwardens to complicate things.
No LWs, no CVs, Eden's taken out of the picture
tardy elm
Sin eaters can turn animals into sin eaters too?
tardy elm
I want a Tesleen minion
high swan
I feel like the final zones of each expansion are always underutilized
They need to stop that
tardy elm
Which is the final zones?
rain onyx
Azys Lla, Lochs, and The Tempest
Though I do think Lochs is a pretty well used map currently due to BLU leveling and the current relic step
woven escarp
I think tempest is the least utilized
there's no reason to be there whatsoever once the MSQ takes you out of it
white rose
maiden lodge
Lochs is the zone around Shadows of Werlyt
Azys Lla exists for Warring Triad and the relic, and that's about it.
Tempest at least is still featured in MSQ.
woven escarp
azys lla does get called out in a few quests besides the handful of MSQ areas that require you to be there
tempest is like, "yeah you need to go to amaurot a few times, then fuck that shit, get outta the ocean"
maiden lodge
That's still more than Azys Lla gets in MSQ.
The real reason Tempest has less is it's been around for less time.
rain onyx
Though unfortunately we probably won’t have much of a story reason to ever go back to the first.
maiden lodge
Though unfortunately we probably won’t have much of a story reason to ever go ba...
There's more plot strings dangling from the First right now than yarn from a toddler's sweater.
Y'shtola's trying to get back, Ryne and Gaia are trying to get over, you have the voidbois and their elfgrammaghost trying to breach and fix the thirteenth, you have not one, but two, information sources on the final days going into the Final Days expansion.... we'll go back.
Contrast with reasons to go back to Ishgard:
a) Your adopted dad wanted to remind you he loves you.
b) Aymeric wanted to remind you he still exists as a person.
somber storm
c) Aymeric wants another dinner with you
teal geyser
Contrast with reasons to go back to Ishgard:
a) Your adopted dad wanted to rem...
C) bring up Haurchefant
agile garnet
B.2) Aymeric needs a reminder that he'll forever live in another man's shadow
maiden lodge
B.2) Aymeric needs a reminder that he'll forever live in another man's shadow
Daddy issues are what make the 14 multiverse run baybay
agile garnet
I still dunno why ppl are infatuated with Aymeric tho
What rly has he done
Other than being handsome and wholesome
oblique sedge
Who be mad about my boi
unique verge
He gets some points for not fucking up the transition of Ishgard into its new government
and generally not being a bitch who sits around waiting for us to solve the problem.
Like, generally speaking if we're solving the problem and he's around, he's actively helping solve that problem, not waiting for a report. Its a subtle but important difference in writing imo
somber storm
Aymeric leads
agile garnet
He calls us up to do what needs to be done tho
Tho yeah I'll admit he's not sitting back in a fancy palace
I'll give him that
unique verge
Yeah but like, anytime that thing which needs doing is something he could feasibly help with, he's usually involved in the combat
agile garnet
Yeah fair
unique verge
Like, we could have gone to Hraesvelgr and begged for help on Aymerics behalf. But he showed up and did the trial that was demanded of him too.
agile garnet
When was that
I don't even remember that
Again, it's a little subtle as you say with Aymeric
rain onyx
3.3 MSQ
unique verge
When we have to beg Hraesvelgr for help taking down the shadow of Nidhogg
clever comet
Aymeric and Lucia both go engage with the dragons at Anyx Trine because they're serious about mending relationships with them
unique verge
the MSQ dungeon Sohr Khai
agile garnet
Oh I remember now
clever comet
Aymeric comes with you all the way to Zenith and does his own trial for Hraesvelgr ^
unique verge
But yeah, he could have been written to stay behind in Ishgard during that and many other situations (Hostage situation in the Vault, for example)
but he's not, and that makes him somewhat unique among that character archetype
agile garnet
Yeah that's fair actually
clever comet
during 5.0 he's been on the front at Ghimlyt Dark for a significant amount of time as well, he's generally been very involved with the Alliance since Ishgard rejoined
agile garnet
Ye but just participating in stuff can come across as bare minimum you know
But no I understand he's always there to be his own diplomat, oversee things are getting done and not leaving it to others
unique verge
I mean, he's not the friggin WoL. His level of contribution shouldnt be measured against us.
somber storm
Don't forget that friendly bout between Ishgard and the Alliance
serene crest
(For that Sohr Khai thing, Hraesvelgr hosts your trial. Vedrfolnir hosts Ayrmeric's. Vidofnir hosts Alphinaud.)
agile garnet
(For that Sohr Khai thing, Hraesvelgr hosts your trial. Vedrfolnir hosts Ayrmeri...
Interesting tid-bit thanks !
unique verge
The only character of the same archetype who really surpasses him at any point in terms of "steps up when its needed" is Raubahn, but he spent so many years not doing it
in terms of the writing
clever comet
well, 5.4 finally had Merlwyb step up to face Limsa's problems more head on than she ever has instead of letting it fester against her as it has for years
agile garnet
people forget how merlwyb got to power in the first hand tho
unique verge
Unless 5.4 is a retcon, i dont think they do, since they fairly explicitly lay that out during 5.4
agile garnet
I don't think it comes across that she's ruling with a heavy hand sometimes
woven escarp
I think aymeric has done the most in the alliance, given that as soon as the dragonsong war ended and he stopped getting stabbed in the streets he immediately redirected huge chunks of ishgard's military force to the rest of the eorzean alliance
agile garnet
Maybe it's just because we see Limsa from the inside and not so much from an outsider's perspective
woven escarp
raubahn's tactical acumen is bonkers but the ul'dahn military is largely mercs
agile garnet
Everything in Limsa seems rather harmonious
unique verge
Ehhh i dont think a comparison of military contributions is a good one when talking about the men themselves.
woven escarp
nah, even from the inside it's really obvious that limsa is held together with duct tape and hope
aymeric is a lead from the front kind of guy
serene crest
Also don’t forget that Aymeric replaced Ishgard’s theocracy with an elected parliament in a pretty short period of time.
woven escarp
yeah
agile garnet
Yeah his accomplishments politically I never doubted
unique verge
Raubahn's "step up and participate" character basically got saved by the idiot lyse situation in the palace in Ala Mhigo
agile garnet
Just always felt like his parts were thrown in in-between
But people have rly changed my viewpoint on him already
woven escarp
he's usually actively in the field and he just comes across you sometimes like "oh shit, you're here?? nobody told me you were around"
clever comet
a lot of Limsa's side stories involve a mish mash of enforcement that frequently fights each other, ie the Rogue's Guild vs the Yellowjackets, and Limsa's relationship with the beast tribes is more loose than Ul'dah but has obvious issues
woven escarp
aymeric is the most active of the four leaders, except maybe raubahn now that he's the commander of the ala mihgan military
agile garnet
Yeah, I'm just saying while she's respected with pirates in Limsa, I think some just straight up fear her power
That's very different from other states
woven escarp
which is like, 14 soldiers and 3 stolen magitek reapers at this point
serene crest
It’s a small thing but notice how they’ve been moving away from calling them beast tribes in story dialogue. And even during the announcement thing, they didn’t call the matanga a beast tribe either. They just said they’re a tribe.
woven escarp
that's because they made it a point to call out that saying "beast tribe" is racist
unique verge
Yeah, I'm just saying while she's respected with pirates in Limsa, I think some ...
That's somewhat more to do with the culture of those states than anything else imo. If you cross Kan-E you're likely to get exiled at worse. If you cross Nanamo, maybe jail. If you cross Merylwyb she'll fucking execute you.
woven escarp
mainly because merlwyb's dissidents have tried to assassinate her lmao
unique verge
Yeah
agile garnet
That's somewhat more to do with the culture of those states than anything else i...
Exactly
woven escarp
the dissidents in ul'dah just want nanamo to shut the fuck up and let them keep exploiting the working class
agile garnet
Yeah but again I feel like most ppl that don't play rly close attention to backstories don't rly see that
woven escarp
if she dies it'll galvanize the labor movement
agile garnet
They see the problem outside of Limsa
clever comet
crossing Kan-E-Senna isn't on most people's minds because people in Gridania fear the retribution of the elementals and Kan-E is one of the few people who communicates with them
agile garnet
While it's very much inside of it too
woven escarp
crossing kan-e-senna is also relatively rare because gridania doesn't even allow people who might do that into their territory
unique verge
Well yeah, which is why i said exile would be the likely result
agile garnet
Where will she send them
unique verge
Gridanians basically tell you to fuck off and be someone elses problem
agile garnet
The other 6 parts of the shroud that all look the same ?
serene crest
That's somewhat more to do with the culture of those states than anything else i...
In the ARM quests, Merlwyb has two of her dudes test out the fit of suits of armor you and your rival make. Without telling them, she then tests the armor’s durability by shooting her men on the spot.
unique verge
In the ARM quests, Merlwyb has two of her dudes test out the fit of suits of arm...
Yup, i know, it was the first crafter questline i did back in 2.0
agile garnet
In the ARM quests, Merlwyb has two of her dudes test out the fit of suits of arm...
YES I REMEMBER
Lmao
unique verge
Her logic was sound though. If the armor couldnt properly stop that shot, it wasnt worth shit to her.
agile garnet
It's tru
unique verge
and its not like the guy died
agile garnet
So do you think especially in Limsa there'll be a power struggle with what seems like "the end of days" on the source
somber storm
Also don't forget she had marauders wailing on them
unique verge
So do you think especially in Limsa there'll be a power struggle with what seems...
I doubt it. That struggle already played out in 5.4, it would be weird for it to come back up so soon.
agile garnet
I doubt it. That struggle already played out in 5.4, it would be weird for it t...
Exactly point tho, we're made aware of a deeper problem
somber storm
Basically old ways vs new ways
agile garnet
And just because she shut it down now doesn't mean it's solved
unique verge
Yeah but the primary "problem faction" has been dealt with
So for it to become a problem again everyone who was at that meeting needs to die, or another faction needs to be invented out of nowhere
agile garnet
"dealt with" 
unique verge
and that faction has been around since like.....2.0 at least, possibly earlier
somber storm
The main 3
woven escarp
the executioners have always been a problem
agile garnet
Oh also interesting thing about limsa's leadership, merlwybs second in command is the guy her father fought
woven escarp
there's a lot of friction between them and merlwyb through all the patches
clever comet
Limsa's always going to have people trying to break the laws, the bigger thing is that Merlwyb is actually trying to reestablish diplomacy with the kobolds, who she damaged the relationship with directly in the past
unique verge
Mistbeard
agile garnet
Ah thanks !
woven escarp
if the executioners are on board now, there's not a lot of chance of them being a pain in the ass later
somber storm
Limsa's always going to have people trying to break the laws, the bigger thing i...
More like early Limsa history tbh. Don't think Merlwyb was around then
agile garnet
So even when Merl is gone he's still just as powerful and probably ruthless as her
woven escarp
and it would just be pissing away story time to roll it back in two patches
unique verge
Exactly my point
woven escarp
"remember that progress you made two months ago? yeah haha nah"
unique verge
Not really?
unique verge
Stormblood never really did that
agile garnet
Stormblood was a territorial back and forth until the WoL comes in
And we just echo nuke everything
unique verge
Yes but like.....we're talking about patch cycles
back and forth within the patch cycle is fine
But going from 5.4 "we've made peace" to 6.0 "fuck it we're rebelling again" woudl be a bit ridiculous
agile garnet
I guess why it would be weird now is because as you say the problem has already been "dealt with"
somber storm
Grand Sers
clever comet
chances are 5.5 is continuing to unite Eorzea, since Paglth'an is the dungeon, so Ul'dah might reconcile with the amal'jaa a bit too to get at one of the towers
woven escarp
I think paglthan is going to be a problem because ifrit's tempering has been going on for much longer
and the amaljaa have never really been friendly with uldah
woven escarp
the kobolds summoning titan is a relatively new development
but the amaljaa have been summoning ifrit forever
somber storm
Gonna be years until everyone is no longer tempered
agile garnet
Yeah that was my initial idea
Of why we might see the same struggles occur more prevalently
Especially in a chaos ridden environment
serene crest
And suddenly comic books kick my brain in. The need for porxies leads to the invention of the mother porxie, made for the sole purpose of making more. Then comes the master porxie, which makes mother porxies. Which leads to nano-porxies, then porxrod, and finally omega porxies. At which point both human and mutant kind are finished.
agile garnet
Omega-porxie-m and omega-porxie-f
woven escarp
speaking of, why is the porxie mother an actual gendered object