retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[woven escarp]

sort of?

omega is a bunch of Legendary Character references from other FF games, yeah

[gaunt star]

Okay

Play final fantasy 2

Truly an excellent taste of the ff series

I assumed the tiers were all bosses from Exdeath and Kefka's respective games

[keen sentinel]

Storm is just straight up Tactics and 12 references

[woven escarp]

kefka just kinda shows up

[gaunt star]

Oh no not for lore in game

[woven escarp]

I don't remember if any of the bosses in sigmascape are from VI specifically

besides kefka

[gaunt star]

The train?

[random anvil]

mfw no duty action to suplex the train

[woven escarp]

maybe in the ultimate version

[maiden lodge]

No one who played wow would, without a heaping dumptruck full of irony, classify anything in this game except for 5.2->5.3 as a content drought.

[woven escarp]

there's a shitload of things to do, but people don't want to do them so they're like "this doesn't appeal to my specific interests therefore content drought"

[maiden lodge]

Content you might not enjoy, sure, but a drought? A content drought doesn't mean 'Oh, they didn't drop the one piece of content I live for.'

[deft burrow]

What do you mean

The irony was there

[woven escarp]

subtle blow +40

[maiden lodge]

Don't get me wrong, I've been playing less recently myself, for some reason, haven't got the motivation to get my last 19 emex kills or whatever

But I recognize that's a me thing

[deft burrow]

Yep!

I'm having trouble wanting to get on to do my relic step

[maiden lodge]

Same.

But also, whatever, I've been doing other things

[teal geyser]

You're joking but port of FF2 is actually good

[deft burrow]

I was going to do housing savage but I kinda just found a house and insta bought it in the same mist subdiv as my fc's large

so

[maiden lodge]

'stop hitting yourself stop hitting yourself stop hitting yourself'

[deft burrow]

that ruined the 3 weeks of finding a good house

for me

[woven escarp]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[maiden lodge]

Gratz, mate!

[woven escarp]

I'm just doing blue mage content for now

[teal geyser]

You won't be doing that in the port though so yay

[deft burrow]

But it was suppose to be 3 weeks of my time ;-;

[woven escarp]

I don't have the spirit gauge to go do experts every day

maybe when I have absolutely nothing else to do I'll go back to logging in for expert

[deft burrow]

Oh ur at that phase

[maiden lodge]

I'm finally starting E12S and don't give a shit about alts so I stopped doing experts ages ago

[woven escarp]

I don't care about savage raiding

[maiden lodge]

Which is fair, but 'don't give a shit about alt jobs' is the real takeaway there

[strange beacon]

done w tome gear grind?

[woven escarp]

my entire job revolves around shepherding 12 dipshits through trivial tasks that they should be able to manage on their own

[maiden lodge]

Long ago, my main didn't require a lot.

[woven escarp]

I don't want to continue that job shepherding 7 more limited people through raids

[strange beacon]

being a sam main for this tier sucks, abt 3-4 weeks worth of roulettes

even worse everyones bis is chest and weapon

[maiden lodge]

You haven't looked at BLM then.

[strange beacon]

so e12s loot is gonna be hell

yeah i heard blm gear grind was unnecessarily painful

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, our static's BLM is... unhappy.

[strange beacon]

LOL

i can imagine

[maiden lodge]

Does not like that the tome weapon is BiS

[strange beacon]

i mean good for him he doesnt have to fight w you 7 for a month and more

but roulettes are braindead

so i empathize

[maiden lodge]

Naw, he just has to fight for us for upgrades constantly.

[strange beacon]

since most blm gear is tome (and assuming ur blm pushes out the most numbers) why dont you just give them tome upgrade prio

[maiden lodge]

Because he didn't show up on our kill so we couldn't.

We will next week.

[strange beacon]

i so feel him ;-;; i got all the gear from e9s and could have gotten an upgrade for e10s but our main prio was e11s and even then i opted out bc of schedule but they cleared 5 pulls after i left and now we're heading into e12s lions prog again

i basically have to skip an entire weeks worth of optional gear for prog

which honest to god kinda sucks

[deft burrow]

Drg has tomestone chest bis

[floral aurora]

That's why I took a break mostly during 5.4

Yakuza 7 and now Strikers to keep me occupied

[unborn lantern]

if they removin belts

they should remove positional for melee

now

asap

today

they should also remove yoshi P

[somber storm]

Nah

Remove potatoes

[unborn lantern]

[somber storm]

[wet mountain]

I recently changed to a cat to a potato 🥔

[unborn lantern]

Welcome.

[unborn lantern]

When a DPS gets a commendation after a dungeon.

[gaunt star]

haha dps players bad amirite the real gods are us tank players who bravely mash 123

[unborn lantern]

easiest fokin role

tanking

and still gets commends cuz apparentlyyyyyy

tHeY haVe mORe reNsPONsibiLitiES

[teal geyser]

Tanking and healing still gives me some paranoia

[regal lantern]

Really? Tanking always makes me feel like a God

DPS gets boring after a while because you always feel like an extra

And I am a DPS main but the more I play, the less DPS seems fun, especially since both Healer and Tank does a lot of DPS themselves, meanwhile Tank/Healer's role and responsibility is strictly restricted to them alone

[mighty light]

I never feel like an extra on DPS

Usually do on tank, never do on healer

[crude rover]

tanking and healing is absolutely more responsibility, but that extra responsibility is far offset by how easy they are to play relative to dps, IMO

also, in the actual challenging content responsibility is mostly shared anyway

[deft burrow]

its much harder to dps savage and ultimates than heal imo

uptime is more of a factor for dps thus making mechanics a bit more difficult to do to not get enrage during low ilvl clearing

[lime estuary]

In general it's stupid to argue about any role being more important, because it's all nonsense. You need all the roles to function correctly.

[unborn lantern]

sometimes they're lazy and just pick the first person on the list to commend

[deft burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/kiana-kaslana-honkai-smug-tuna-smug-honkai-impact3-smirk-gif-16372699

[velvet fox]

Unless you're royally bad, I commend in the following order

Sprout
Someone that was nice in the chat
Someone that showed they actually listened/tried etc
Co-DPS if I'm DPSing
DPS Player that plays one of my main classes if I'm tanking/healing
Healer
Tank
Whomever is left by the time I click the button

[ruby gate]

I always pick healers first and tanks second. And it's not because whether they do good or not (unless they did absolutely horrible) but because they're playing a role that has fewer people in. There's more DPS jobs then there are of healer and tank combined. So when I see a healer or tank I commend them to encourage them to keep playing the role

[shut burrow]

I see Honkai

[mighty light]

Red Mages and Summoners who rez first (esp. if their rezzing saved a run)
Healers second, with tanks in a close third
DPS fourth

Healers and tanks are where they are less b/c I think it's harder (although it's 100% more anxiety-inducing, in my experience) and more because I think it helps encourage people to keep healing.

I commend based on what I want to see more of, not on the basis of Big Number or whatever; that doesn't really matter outside of savage content, so it doesn't play into whether I commend or not unless somebody is, like Ali said, royally bad.

[shut burrow]

Healers get a ton of stress put onto them

[mighty light]

Ye

[velvet fox]

But it's fun healing someone in gear fifteen levels below the dungeon.

[shut burrow]

I scream whenever I heal for a reason 😩😩😩

[unborn lantern]

I don't get

why you only can commend one person at a time

stupid on enix part

[somber storm]

Because

[unborn lantern]

No

theres no because

[somber storm]

There can only be one

[unborn lantern]

tanks and healers will always get commendations for with or without reasons!

[velvet fox]

Because it was a system built to foster being "nice" in random parties. If you could just toss out commendations to everyone, it would create the opposite atmosphere. "Oh, I'm the only one that didn't get a Comm" etc.

[somber storm]

[velvet fox]

Which is why they added achievements and items behind them. To encourage the "nice" part.

[flint yew]

The commendation hierarchy:
Tanks > Healers > DPS

[velvet fox]

It needs to be seen as some level of incentive after all

[unborn lantern]

It's the same as "why didn't they commend me instead of him"
atmosphere

[shut burrow]

[velvet fox]

But the thing is, you don't know who got what right now, unless you're playing with a friend that got them

And since it's all optional, it's up in the air as to who got them or if any were even given out. So not getting them in this system is vastly different from not getting them in a system where you can comm everyone in the party

[unborn lantern]

Nah

my dooddd

commendations for everyone ♥

everyone did well

it's even harder to pick who commend if more than one did actually do a great job

[velvet fox]

It's not what it was made for. shrugs

[unborn lantern]

whats it made for o.o

[velvet fox]

points upwards

[unborn lantern]

just my roof

:C

"ooo i commend this catboi cus he's cute"

"even tho he died dozens and caused a wipe that one time"

"still cute tho"

[somber storm]

No commends for potatoes

[unborn lantern]

WHAT

[flint yew]

No commends for me then

[somber storm]

Get monkey paw'ed

[flint yew]

o o f

[somber storm]

https://tenor.com/view/monkeys-paw-paw-monkey-gif-17535679

[flint yew]

I feel like I should know what this means

but i don't

[unborn lantern]

everyone deserves to be appreciated

[somber storm]

[unborn lantern]

except vauthry

that fkin ***

[somber storm]

Ugly bastard

Or beautiful bastard

[unborn lantern]

UGLEH

also these things remind me of lunar bahamut

[somber storm]

https://tenor.com/view/vauthry-shadowbringer-gif-19395613

[unborn lantern]

i bet thats what its minion would look like

just gonna reuse oldd models

typical enixz

[flint yew]

c h o n k y

[unborn lantern]

Immaculate

pff

more like iMcdonald

[flint yew]

McDonald's mascot

Ronald sure grew bigger since the last time I saw him

[somber storm]

[unborn lantern]

imagine what vauthry might had been

if emet didn't turn him into a sin-eater

[somber storm]

Still fat

[flint yew]

Wish I could play Shadowbringers but I have no money :life:

Sin-eaters look cool

[unborn lantern]

still a piece of garbage

[teal geyser]

It's classic

[unborn lantern]

i would have had let the transformation take me

[teal geyser]

Monkey paw being a thing where you make a wish but like, that wish comes true in the worst way possible due to ambiguity

[flint yew]

ohh right

[unborn lantern]

i mean vauthry could turn into one with his sense intact

so like

problem would be

everlasting light everywhere

owo

[teal geyser]

To be fair his situation is far far more different than yours

[unborn lantern]

well we have plot

so

either way

wish we turned

and then we became evil with different quests and stuffs to destroy stuffs

then our friends comes and fight us

tries to remind us

who we are

while we fight them

owo

don't think any mmo had ever done that yet

[somber storm]

Well

[unborn lantern]

it's a cool concept

so we could experience what its like being on the other "side"

and we get this epic outfit for villains

cus apparently they get that

[somber storm]

Eh, us being true Ascians probably wouldn't work out

[unborn lantern]

would be more cool if we had cape physics like odin and thordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nR37n3dM-0&t=210s

just look at that flow

every skill looks 10x better

with capes

[somber storm]

90 AF pld gear getting cape

[unborn lantern]

its gonna stick on ur back

like other armors that have cape

[turbid aspen]

that shit better have a proper wearable hood

i hate the circlets so much

[teal geyser]

You're not getting a hood

[somber storm]

No pld hood

Hood toggle when?

[unborn lantern]

when enix

ran out of ideas

they'll start listening

[somber storm]

But will they listen to you

[unborn lantern]

when ffxiv starts to die cus no more expansion?

ye

[somber storm]

[dim sigil]

Who is this blue cat and why are they everywhere

[somber storm]

Bugcat

https://tenor.com/view/bugcat-capoo-work-no-gif-12962657

Bugcat capoo

[craggy gale]

man there'd be a fashion revolution if SE did the pso2 thing where they stopped giving a shit about clipping

and also had massive boob accessories

[somber storm]

Nipple tassles

[dim sigil]

Where were you under the impression they care about clipping

[somber storm]

viera hats

[craggy pawn]

Oh god not the ballooned bosoms

The creations people made

[craggy gale]

finally realistic catgirls

[unborn lantern]

what even

[gaunt star]

[balmy mesa]

what the fuck

[gaunt star]

[heavy tundra]

Any theories on how we'll be getting to the moon?

[pastel coyote]

lunar whale

or allagan ship like "the one" we see on the logo

[heavy tundra]

Ohh

I feel like it'll be the ship

[balmy mesa]

it'll probably be the Ragnarok

[pastel coyote]

Well for me it's look allagan and.... ARR did "start" with an allagan thing going out of the moon/dalamud; so making a parallel with an allagan ship going in the moon for the final arc wouldn't surprise me

[balmy mesa]

feels like they're gonna throw a Lunar Cry event at us

[pastel coyote]

sorry it will be the Invincible

[balmy mesa]

either way, it'll probably be a big-ass Allagan ship that's cobbled together with a mishmash of Garlean and Ironworks tech

[heavy tundra]

It'd be cool if the ship becomes a mount

[balmy mesa]

probably will be a minion: "scale model of this Allagan cruiser"

[rare sinew]

Moon kojin

And moon namazu

Yes yes

Ngl, the elephant people looks yech for me

[balmy mesa]

I'm reminded of the childrens' story books with Babar

[rare sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/heffalump-woozle-winniethepooh-gif-5918728

[mortal monolith]

I discovered a discord easter egg, which is also a 6.0 spoiler
||Press the blue colon
https://discord.com/developers/docs/topics/rate-limits ||

[pine epoch]

I believe in VG interview with yoshida. He confirms there will be a job quest for all existing jobs

So effectively 1 level 90 job quest

[wary perch]

It's the same as job quest in shb

I hope they do story quest for doh Dil as well at max level in 6.0

[random ravine]

what game is this

[craggy gale]

pso2

[plain plover]

what is the upcoming island content?

[pine epoch]

Its inspired by animal crossing harvest moon ect

Its made to give players a more slow living content

[wet crown]

harvest moon is anything but slow living

[plucky palm]

i hope the game won't come to xbox. don't get me wrong, i want more players but that would cause problems with development

[wet crown]

constantly living the busy-bee live
planning on a micro-cosmos level of management

anything but relaxing

[pine epoch]

The reason we aren't getting a xbox version currently is because it delay the expansion

[plucky palm]

yeah, that's why i don't want an xbox version. it would delay updates

[pastel coyote]

I still think we get the island to help us relax because the world whole will have a "final days" weather

[pine epoch]

Well there is already some work done for it. But its shelved until a Further date

Probably wont happen until a year or 2 from now

[topaz dune]

As for Lunar Cry, if PSO2 can do it, so to can 6.0

[regal lantern]

What if it’s on the Moon?

[topaz dune]

PSO2 moon stuff

[placid sail]

any speculation about what the new 24-man could be?

they said it'd be a piece of Eorzean lore that they didn't spend a lot of time on until now

[viscid monolith]

Lake Silvertear is my guess

[placid sail]

right next to the Crystal Tower?

[viscid monolith]

Ya

Something is under/in/around Lake Silvertear that was so scary it stopped Gaius' march on Eorzea but not scary enough for Midgardsormr, the dude living at the lake for 5000+ years, to mention

In fact I don't think anyone in game has mentioned it at any point

It's a purely 1.0 thing that just hasn't been picked up but Koji also mentioned it in an interview before.

[scarlet arch]

My guess for the new 24man is Meracydia, but that's mostly wishful thinking.

[random ravine]

is PSO2 similar to FFXIV in gameplay mechanics?

[topaz dune]

In game play mechanics? Well for one all classes and skills can be used at the same time and such

[serene crest]

In terms of combat, however, no. It's an action game. Closer to Monster Hunter in a way.

[chilly plover]

isn't pso2 a beat em up

or monster hunter i guess

[tropic frigate]

an easier monster hunter

has skill trees so it can kinda make playing all classes as main class kinda impossible because you use one as a sub to the main

unless you use money

[severe brook]

i feel like Silvertear is more likely than Meracydia because they've mentioned that the raid is going to be something completely original to XIV's world

and while Meracydia itself is original, the Warring Triad and Meracydian Horde are big parts of its past

both of which are referencing other games/concepts in the series

[viscid monolith]

They said it would be about a mystery pertaining to Eorzea, and Meracydia is a different continent altogether

It'll still have stuff from other FFs like everything in XIV.

[wet crown]

too early for meracydia anyway

[random ravine]

for 6.0, they should also add a limited job which allows you to mix and match abilities from every class

[subtle pasture]

If not Silvertear then uhhhhh

I mean what other significant Eorzean mysteries are there.

Another Fifth Astral 24man series? 👁️ 👄 👁️

(those 8 other city-states that died off early in the War of the Magi)

--Qarn, I suppose.

which might be one of the 8 who died off early fifth astral

[heady shadow]

older calamities.

but honestly silvertear is the best bet

[wet crown]

if it's made into a raid, it can only be silvertear

[pine epoch]

Gonna be fair. I feel silvertear would be wasted on a 24 man

[pastel coyote]

Sorry we can't have a server fight even if it's cool

[pine epoch]

Inb4 we get bamboozled and the 8 man and 24 man are both the same raid series

3 Savage 24 mans

But ya there isnt any other big mysteries

Maybe like uh... a raid series about the 12?

And how they were invented

[pastel coyote]

I wonder if they really give up the heart of sabyk

[pine epoch]

But ya uh... Sabik origin. Bringing the Presence back. (Tho I dont think it could be silvertear related anymore since they already did retcon it as a thin spot of earth with the lifestream underneath)

Tho fuck if I know

[craggy pawn]

They better make silvertear lake the raid

My lore craving ass wants to know whats up with it

[wet crown]

I mean...the only other "mystery" I can think of it wether or not Ramuh has something to do with Rhalgr but who cares?

Oh...Eureka, the weapon vault labyrinth thingy

[heady shadow]

remember when people found out ozma can yeet everyone out?

[craggy pawn]

huh?

[heady shadow]

in BA

[craggy pawn]

Ah never did baldesion arsenal

So mr marble basically yeets you out of the instance ?

[heady shadow]

ye

also,

you need people outside of BA to kill a NM or else everyone can get pst AV

*cant

[craggy pawn]

Oh dang

[gaunt star]

https://gfycat.com/enormousactivebrownbutterfly

[deep roost]

Ozma was a super weapon made by an old civilization, ....WoL proceeds to ride on top of it as a daily commuter

[heady shadow]

amazingly enough NA got world first on it

[placid sail]

lmao

one party didn't stand on their button

and everyone got yoinkd at 1%

[viscid monolith]

That's what greed gets you

I wonder if that group dissolved into a shit storm

Whoever didn't stand on their button absolutely should have been removed

[subtle pasture]

Tbf, the mount is Demi-Ozma, a Sharlayan reproduction of Proto

Smaller scale than Mhach's, ofc

[wet crown]

Waiting for Ozma Prime

[craggy pawn]

lmao

[wet crown]

suddenly a busty female

[heady shadow]

also you have to commune with what?

\48 other people?

[rain onyx]

56 at most.

[subtle pasture]

48 to start, and then the 8 from the extra NM

Rather, AV and Proto-Ozma have that extra party in mind

What is it about Proto-Ozma, it does Black Hole as the first mechanic in sphere configuration?

Like Pyramid's 3 beams and Cube's ring

[rain onyx]

Yep

Black hole always follows orb

[heady shadow]

also if you die you dont get the mount right?

[gaunt star]

ppl were mad

[wet crown]

if you die, you're dead

unless you're in FFXIV or a Fire Emblem game

[gaunt star]

but I said hey I know who it was that didn't stand on the button and I am absolutely not telling you guys

[rain onyx]

As long as you’re still in the arena when ozma dies you get it

[gaunt star]

because boy do they know what they did wrong

[rain onyx]

If you get sucked out you don’t get it.

[gaunt star]

And I didn't want them to get like death threats or something xd

People have gotten threats over less

I’m surprised that Twitter hasn’t doxed the person who made the human yshtola mod

[craggy pawn]

The human WHAT

[brisk quail]

s-see? I reloaded they aren't dead, nope

Game: autosaves after every move made, before the results

[random ravine]

what

crazy

people just aren't willing to try again? i've wiped countless times at boss with less than 1% hp left

it's no biggie

[gaunt star]

you don't just "try again" on that boss

you had to gather up an expedition of 50+ people, try to all get into the same Hydatos instance (could literally take hours sometimes), wait for the NM to spawn that opened the raid, then use your actions, enter the raid, fight through it, and hope the support NM that makes the 3rd boss possible was done properly

we'd already been in the instance for over an hour and a half at that point and who knows how long before that trying to get in, and we would have had to all try to get back into the same instance even if everyone was down for another 2+ hours after spending 2-3+ already on it

[random ravine]

what is NM?

[gaunt star]

notorious monster

basically boss fate

[subtle pasture]

Notorious Monster, which are basically all like those special boss fates most zones have

[random ravine]

so you have to wait for 2 NMs to pop?

[gaunt star]

There's a special NM that spawns to open it

and then you need to grab a portal that spawns in the open field and ofc there was some drama about people not in organized groups taking portals when the groups planned out a person to take each one

usually a handful of people per run wouldn't get in

[dim sigil]

And i thought castum had a dumb way to get in

[viscid monolith]

How is it dumb

Just gotta be quick to the draw

[dim sigil]

I mean call it lazy or w.e but having such a complex system like over just queing sounds dumb

[gaunt star]

eureka in general was an exercise in trying to emulate the bad parts of ff11

[heady shadow]

Jailer of Love is to unlock it

then theres another NM that needs to be killed while everyone is in BA

[dim sigil]

I hear people's talk so nostalgic about old mmo used to work and I'm like are you sure you just don't have Stockholm Syndrome

[subtle pasture]

Baldesion Arsenal was meant as a savage Alliance Raid of sorts, and it mostly achieved that by the conditions to enter, the raise conditions inside, and Proto-Ozma’s ability to yeet you from the duty.

The 2nd NM to dispel AV’s illusion was p neat too

[swift rune]

idk if it's the bad part

i get the concept

but i feel like it doesn't work under FFXIV's framework

first of all, I have to actually focus hitting buttons most of the time

and that isn't conducive of having a community gathering in these instances

i don't have a second point

[viscid monolith]

The second point was the method to get in was stupid and whoever came up with it was a dummyhead

[swift rune]

yeah i am not uber familiar with FFXI but the gist of it is that the world mechanics worked together to force cooperation by necessity

now i just type lfg and then i bounce

[subtle pasture]

The portal thing was clever but the idea of it being literally individual portals was where it gets pretty dumb

[gaunt star]

The mechanics of it sound cool but the implementation was... not

It was fun and it does lend a sense of groundedness to the world that savage raids don't

[swift rune]

at least I like the idea of cooperation in stuff like this

[gaunt star]

But it was also a lot of sitting around and frustration and division between the payerbase

[subtle pasture]

Like the story reason with the Jailor is how you need aetherial turbulence to pierce the barrier around the Arsenal, which that monster causes (the weather), but seriously 48 portals is, w-what

[swift rune]

Orbonne needed some form of cooperation during the early days before they nerfed it to the ground

even castrum requires to divide work

[gaunt star]

the priority portal thingy was also awful

[swift rune]

that stuff works well

[gaunt star]

The portals initially spawned as unstable and then became stable after like 7? minutes and you could spend a significant quantity of resources for an item that let you enter an unstable one

[heady shadow]

not that it mattered

[gaunt star]

Which would case one fewer stable portal to spawn

[heady shadow]

even with the nerfs people still fucking sucked in orbonne

[gaunt star]

But the stable one that got consumed was totally random instead of the one in the spot where you used the unstable portal

[swift rune]

but FFXIV does not teach cooperation that's what can make it suck

[heady shadow]

reality hit some in the head i wager

[swift rune]

orbonne runs go significantly better when you take time to explain for example

[gaunt star]

So if you used a stabilizer you just screwed someone else over

[viscid monolith]

This is the second time I'm saying this

How is it that Eureka was worse than it already is in my memory?

[gaunt star]

lmao

[heady shadow]

and honestly from what i heard,

Bozja is worse?

or was it that they let everyone get shit outside of it in fates instead of doing castrum?

fucking everyone over who wanted to do the story shit but couldnt because not enouhg people?

[viscid monolith]

They already fixed Castrum

[kind lark]

Castrum used to only give little coins and some fragments, you could get more coins outside of castrum

[gaunt star]

Castrum is kinda dumb for entry but it's MILES ahead of BA

[viscid monolith]

To be specific they broke Castrum and fixed it

[gaunt star]

Problem with Bozja is little to do outside Castrum and DR

[viscid monolith]

They could definitely let another full party into Castrum

[gaunt star]

Especially if you already have jobs leveled

The fates are more fun than the NMs but there isn't as much incentive to do them

[dim sigil]

CEs and castum were buffed so its actually worthwhile to do relics in them now

[pastel coyote]

Tell me that again.... i need to run delubrum 15 time

[gaunt star]

CEs... technically give progress for the 20/20/20 step

[dim sigil]

CT is probably still faster but at least i can feel like imaking progress in bojza

[gaunt star]

but they're miles slower than just doing fates outside

[dim sigil]

Dr 15 times isnt that bad

[strange wing]

As long as people use essences

[dim sigil]

Just dont rush it, do one or two every day or every other day

[strange wing]

And the rewards are neato

[viscid monolith]

You get 5 memories from CLL now for the first step

Guaranteed

Fuck doing CT 15 times

[gaunt star]

yeah

spamming CT is technically still faster but not by much

and castrum also gives a ton of exp/mettle and like 400k gil worth of stuff

[random ravine]

do any of the CT raids work?

[gaunt star]

yeah

[random ravine]

what is the one that people spam?

[gaunt star]

People spammed syrcus cuz it's the fastest

[random ravine]

faster than lota?

[gaunt star]

yeah

lota trash takes longer

[heady shadow]

sycrus is like 15min

or less

[gaunt star]

real pogchamp blu groups could do sub-10 syrcus but I only got that a couple times

[random ravine]

how long does Wod take? there's almost no trash except for the first room

[gaunt star]

wod shouldn't take much longer

[random ravine]

lota has 3 room of trash in the beginning

[gaunt star]

except for the fact that it takes longer to find/queue into

p sure it's easily sub-15 with a little trying

though the bosses also take longer

[random ravine]

i feel like the first boss of wod takes forever

[gaunt star]

syrcus bosses theoretically should take longer than lota but they're all just target dummies so in practice they get nuked

shortest gassy legolas I saw was 37 seconds and I'm sure he's been done faster

[heady shadow]

they do have mechanics but i bet no one has seen most of them since they dropped lmao

[viscid monolith]

I hope the stat crunch fixes that

[gaunt star]

it should

[pastel coyote]

probably not

i think the stat will only be a thing after lvl 50

[viscid monolith]

I think I remember them mentioning it only affecting after 50? I hope I imagined that.

[rain onyx]

They stated that, yes.

[gaunt star]

50-80 gets crunched

and 1-50 and 80-90 don't

or rather 81-90

[viscid monolith]

Early raids get completely fucked by being able to nuke them so quickly

[gaunt star]

I expect they'll keep ilvl 1-50 the same and ilvl 60-130 will get crunched

[viscid monolith]

I remember I took a friend through CT and they were disappointed because everything dies so quickly

[spiral wagon]

so essentially we will be 2x times as powerful from after the end of shadowbringers to the end of endwalker??

[pastel coyote]

Well good luck to them to do that

[gaunt star]

close to 2x, yeah

[spiral wagon]

lord

[gaunt star]

We'll get crunched from 25k to 5k dps and then be doing like 10k in first tier of EW

is my forecast

and ~15k on the last tier

[viscid monolith]

Twice as powerful as whatever the new scaling at 80 will be

[spiral wagon]

lord...

[gaunt star]

And then be doing 40k in 7.5 and idk why they're only crunching down 80% when we triple in power every expac

[spiral wagon]

imagine all the things i could solo...

[viscid monolith]

I wouldn't mind them just fixing scaling so 9999 is the cap

[spiral wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/all-the-things-hyperbole-and-a-half-do-all-the-things-excited-gif-16018689

[heady shadow]

and the big dps number gang is freaking

[viscid monolith]

Soloing old content unsynced will be harder than it is now

[gaunt star]

Nobody cares about smaller number

[pastel coyote]

If only it was true

[gaunt star]

The only suggestion I've read of anyone being sad about numbers being smaller is people going hah balance must be upset huh

[pastel coyote]

You will always find someone who care about the most stupid thing

[gaunt star]

like ??? all we care about is how much potency we do relative to how much we can potentially do

[viscid monolith]

The big numbers are just noise at this point

[heady shadow]

if balance was lighting itself on fire because of the stat squish shame i left there

[pastel coyote]

damn i remember these game i try 10 year ago, from the start you could deal more than 100k

[heady shadow]

since that would be a sight to see

[pastel coyote]

and everything was OS

One thing that could.... comfort people will be to see some of the stat squish before hand

[gaunt star]

they're not

only mention of squish I've even seen is in here

[pastel coyote]

Like different party in trial/raid from lvl 50 to 80

[heady shadow]

bbooooo

[exotic copper]

maces

[forest magnet]

81-90 won't because it's already designed with the level squish in mind, right?

[pastel coyote]

i guess so

[gaunt star]

they said 81-90 will have normal scaling

[viscid monolith]

So stats will triple by the end of EW?

[gaunt star]

roughly

from what they've said

[pastel coyote]

normal scaling sure, based on what ?

[gaunt star]

based on the last 3 expansions?

specifically they said the sort of scaling we're used to

[pastel coyote]

or the last 3 expansions after the squish, which will look normal

[gaunt star]

And that 81-90 is different scaling than 50-80

[viscid monolith]

We'll end up slightly weaker than we are now

[gaunt star]

otherwise they would have said 50-90

or w/e

[deft burrow]

We'll be stronger just smaller numbers

[exotic copper]

if we look at other games that have successfully level squished, your power increase will look similar to the power increase from SB->ShB, but scaled proportionally for instance a level 71 is 10% stronger than a 70 (not real numbers just an example)

This means that at 81 you should expect to feel that strength increase proportional to your current squished strength

This also has the side effect that eventually the game will be squished again

It may be 3 expansions, but you will see the squish again

And it's healthy for the game, you're limiting numbers and improving server performance

Also remember, if they could create appropriately challenging content for HW level numbers once, they should be able to do it again

[brisk quail]

Tbh all they need to do is show a DH/Crit Midare in ARR/HW/SB and SHB and then people could chill.

With max gear level at that expac

[exotic copper]

It's really interesting seeing people freak out over a squish, I understand that many people have not played games that have had squishes, or games that had unsuccessful squishes, but I have the utmost confidence that the developers at SE are extremely aware of what people have done right and wrong about squishing

[brisk quail]

I agree.

Stat squish is a sign of a healthy game tbh

[heady shadow]

so tl;dr

[exotic copper]

it's going to be ok

[heady shadow]

level 81 will feel like lvl 71?

[exotic copper]

no

not at all

[gaunt star]

81 then should feel like 71 now

[brisk quail]

Because...

1. It's lasted long enough to need one

2. They plan for 3+ expacs of stats

3. Lowers the barrier for entry and makes it less confusing for new players because smaller numbers are less complex

[exotic copper]

No

[gaunt star]

though sb->shb specifically had some weird heal scaling stuff

[exotic copper]

do not compare anything now

to anything post squish

it's not going to be a 1:1

[brisk quail]

I mean they did they say wanted an 80% reduction

[exotic copper]

They said about 80%. There are a lot of formulas to alter

[gaunt star]

they said 81-90 scaling would be like what we're used to so it should be basically the same

[exotic copper]

the scaling will be similar

[gaunt star]

though I guess there's the consideration of the entry-level gear being within the tail end of the squished range

[exotic copper]

the numbers are not the scaling

[brisk quail]

Not the numbers

Scaling

[gaunt star]

who tf is talking about numbers lol

[exotic copper]

When you say "81 is the new 71" it seems like thats what you mean

[gaunt star]

1. I didn't say that and 2. I have no idea why you would assume that

[exotic copper]

81 then should feel like 71 now

[brisk quail]

Like if we take what we have now... somewhere around 20k dps for content rn.

An 80% reduction brings DPS to 4,000

It'll be a HUGE shift

[exotic copper]

how am i supposed to interpret that

i'm not being sarcastic

[gaunt star]

Qualitatively?

[brisk quail]

I mean you did say...

[exotic copper]

what do you mean "feel"

what does "feel" mean in this context particularly

[gaunt star]

we'd be looking at similar scaling re: gcds to kill mobs, time we can survive, potency to heal to full vs the experience one level lower

[exotic copper]

Not quite

[brisk quail]

Thats uniform across the game normally

[exotic copper]

also not quite

you experience significant power increases at 50, 60, 70, 80, due to the access of extremely high ilvl gear

[brisk quail]

Like if you're at max gear in Hw and heal someone to full

It should feel nigh equivalent to max gear in SB

[exotic copper]

I agree, maybe you're missing some buttons or your heal gets a potency upgrade later

but generally yes

[brisk quail]

Given potencies are scaled correctly along with HP and it hasn't increased or decreased

[viscid glade]

I'm gonna be uspet if I can't wreck 50 content any stronger come next expac

[exotic copper]

You won't be able to.

[viscid glade]

or solo 60

sad

[exotic copper]

They aren't rescaling 1-50 at all

60 may be doable

[viscid glade]

cringe

[exotic copper]

since it is getting the treatment

[viscid glade]

all I do is unsync old content

I'm weird

[brisk quail]

Level 50 max gear will be the 'base' for scaling

We'll move linearly from that point

[exotic copper]

You will probably be able to do unsync very very easily still

maybe just need a friend or two

[gaunt star]

yes ifrit will wreck u

[viscid glade]

NO

[gaunt star]

or rhytahtyn or w/e called

the meme roegarlean

[viscid glade]

I'm a loner I want to solo content

[brisk quail]

Cape Westwind Ultimate

[viscid glade]

I always put down markers for Cape westwind

[gaunt star]

imagine

[viscid glade]

and shitpost it constantly

esp when I commend farm

it helps

[exotic copper]

I understand the desire for solo content Missy but the game is largely focused around the multiplayer aspect of massively multiplayer online game

[viscid glade]

cringe

[gaunt star]

[exotic copper]

You may still get what you desire however

since they talked about how they would like to expand trusts but haven't figured out the code for it yet

[brisk quail]

If you want solo stuff. Play BDO. The MMO with no Multiplayer besides the auction house

[viscid glade]

no I only care for ff

[maiden lodge]

I mean they could statsquish it so that Endwalker does Stormblood levels of damage and you'll still be able to solo ARR>

So I don't see a problem

[exotic copper]

it won't be exactly like stormblood

you'll have to wait and see what it actually is like

[maiden lodge]

I'm just saying, they've got a LOT of room to squish stats and still have ARR soloable without adjusting it, if they acre about that

[brisk quail]

I'm hoping the stat squish is as big as they're intending it to be.

[exotic copper]

I honestly was expecting bigger

I was expecting them to squish 80 to ARR

like, 95%

[velvet fox]

It'll be fine. They mentioned they still have to figure out how to squish and make it so you can solo old stuff like we can now. If any other game experience is to be learned from, the soloing old stuff might be wonky for a patch or two while they work the kinks out.

Don't fret about it.

[brisk quail]

Remember when 9999 damage raidwide was a party wipe?

[exotic copper]

now they just instagib you with a death debuff

[brisk quail]

Ah
Crystal tower. Never change

[exotic copper]

because doing damage to you is too hard

[maiden lodge]

Remember when doing 9999 with an ability was a rush?

[brisk quail]

9999 damage pog.

[exotic copper]

i remember the first time I hit a fat 7k fell cleave

[brisk quail]

Tbh I don't know what a big number is anymore. The numbers got too big.

[exotic copper]

those were the days

[brisk quail]

I'm desensitized to the numbers

I'm just like yep that's damage... good or bad? Ehhh i dunno

[exotic copper]

it's perspective that makes the numbers feel good

if I feel like a monster has 50k hp and I hit it for 5k, I feel alright

if i feel like it has 15k hp and i hit it for 5k, i feel great

[rain onyx]

I managed a 250k Afflatus Misery in DR

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, you get a feel for what a phatcrit and that number changes as time goes on, no big deal

[rain onyx]

It was pretty nice

[exotic copper]

how much health did the thing have

[rain onyx]

A lot

[exotic copper]

sadge

[maiden lodge]

I remember back when I thought 40k crits were phat

[exotic copper]

if i hit something for 250k and i don't feel like i did 1% of total health in damage, 250k doesn't feel special

[maiden lodge]

And then ShB dropped and was like '100k crit pog'

And now I'm like 'meh, 90k'

[exotic copper]

people get very worried when you mess with their numbers, but as long as everything is proportional, we good

[brisk quail]

The numbers are too big to absorb it feels like

[exotic copper]

tell that to maplestory

[brisk quail]

It doesn't feel... impactful anymore

Maple story is a tire fire of a game

[exotic copper]

I'm actually a little surprised SE didn't go the mega damage route

But I like this more

[maiden lodge]

I'm not. They're starting to edge against bit limits

[exotic copper]

mega damage avoids bit limits in the same way

You handle damage numbers with "k" and "m" so you reduce bit load

[maiden lodge]

Floating points don't reduce bit load.

Or more accurately, they save bit load but increase processing time

[gaunt star]

Maplestory does have unit damage skins so you can actually tell wtf is going on

[exotic copper]

Yes

[maiden lodge]

And it doesn't save the big problem with hitting the bit limit--having to rewrite your data structures

[exotic copper]

I agree, but rewriting everything to avoid bad press is a very SE move.

[maiden lodge]

Well.... that's more of a Yoshi P move, but even this is inviting trouble.

[exotic copper]

Like I said, I like this solution

I think its the best solution

[maiden lodge]

Same and bad parsers get salty about it and that pleases me

[woven escarp]

they should have never allowed disgaea levels of damage bloat

if they had large enough addressing they absolutely would have ended up with rdps in the billions

[maiden lodge]

Geometric progression's gonna Geometric.

[woven escarp]

but it doesn't make any sense reeee

[maiden lodge]

Sure it does.

[woven escarp]

I hate that the idea of "progression" is that you get more zeroes at the end of your number

[maiden lodge]

Arithmetic progression would make it such that after a certain point, gear and progression is a fart in the wind.

[untold gull]

I don't get why people say Zenos is boring - well, i kinda get it but i mean, with all the info we've got, you'd think he's not this paper thin character anymore

[maiden lodge]

Geometric progression makes it that your progression witihn a tier is felt no matter what tier you're at. It's a necessary thing to use.

[woven escarp]

adding more zeroes doesn't change how long the fights take though

it just adds more zeroes

[maiden lodge]

It does within the tier.

You want characters to feel more powerful levelling up, so that requires progression relative to the level--linear progression doesn't do that.

Then you want characters to feel more powerful as they get better gear--linear progression also doesn't do that. Once you reach that point, you need geometric progression--exponential growth. It's the only way to ensure that progression feels the same at every level.

Like, mathematically--it's the only way.

[exotic copper]

its not even about the new content feeling challenging

well i take that back it is

but once you're at the cap its not about that

its just about feeling stronger than you were the last time you played

if you hit level 50 and could use the same set of gear from then until level 80, would you really feel like levels have a point? Would you feel like going through dungeons outside of once for the story has a point?

You need a dragon to chase

[maiden lodge]

This. And in linear progression, a weapon upgrade at level 50 might increase your power by 20%, but at 80, only increase it by 2%. You would not feel a need to upgrade, because it matters less. Gear drops would be 'meh', and that difference would get worse and worse over time.

[brisk quail]

I mean they could do it like... something like destiny does

Where if you're not at the level. You deal less

[woven escarp]

gear should be for specific things, not just a flat "muh ilvl"

[maiden lodge]

You need it so that 'x gear changes damage by 10%' at all stages--which means the rate of change is proportional to the current output.

There's only one function in math that does that.

[brisk quail]

And if you are yku deal X anount

[exotic copper]

You're describing a whole other genre of game at that point with different stats

it's not the game we're playing

[gaunt star]

but on destiny u never feel more powerful

[maiden lodge]

That just obsfucates the level, the math is still the exact same on the back end

[woven escarp]

destiny also flattens damage so it takes the same amount of hits per weapon class on any given enemy

it's a really rare fringe case where you take more than expected to kill something

which is why the gear treadmill in destiny sucks

[exotic copper]

like what would make you switch gear if not more damage, more health, or more healing

[woven escarp]

you get better guns only because you need better guns to actually qualify to do damage

[brisk quail]

But it's the same in FFXIV is it not?

You can't bring a level 50 sword to a level 60 thing without feeling like shit

[exotic copper]

I don't think he's complimenting destiny

[maiden lodge]

It is, but you don't evade the problem by adding in a logarithm at the end of the exponential equation

[exotic copper]

I think he's levying the same criticism to it

[maiden lodge]

Look at elvl in eureka if you want an example of how it feels really fuckin bad

[gaunt star]

i just wanna go to the EDZ for once and the enemies do 1 damage on me not 50000

[woven escarp]

eureka is what happens when you try to merge FFXI's relatively small stat progression and dependence on unique gear/ability builds with XIV/wow's "bigger numbers = more gooder"

that's why eureka sucks too

[exotic copper]

now i'm just confused

[woven escarp]

XIV doesn't have the nuance necessary to really simulate the XI experience except for the "enemies take 500 years to die and can kill you in two hits"

[maiden lodge]

no, it's what happens when you put destiny's level gating scaling as an additional scalar on top of the math that's already there

[exotic copper]

ff14 is bad because it's not like 11 but eureka is bad because its too much like 11

[woven escarp]

they're different game systems

[gaunt star]

who said xiv was bad

[woven escarp]

eureka is bad because it's the shitty parts of XI and XIV combined

[exotic copper]

this aspect of 14

[maiden lodge]

XIV isn't built around waiting for five minutes for you to do what you signed up to do.

[woven escarp]

in one big shit porridge

[exotic copper]

lol troo

mmo design has progressed from "face north at 3 pm to craft this piece of gear"

[maiden lodge]

'I am here to hit a stun every five minutes' isn't XIV's design. But it isn't nuance either.

[woven escarp]

XI doesn't respect your time at all but the gear system is more intricate

although I could do with a little streamlining so you don't need 40 different gear macros

[gaunt star]

XI doesnt respect my eyes either, those graphics

[exotic copper]

In what respect? I didn't play much 11 but have read a lot about it, so you could be right, but explain please

[maiden lodge]

XI also has shit job design wherein if a job is not viable, fuck it, you're something else, go get benched PUP

[woven escarp]

considering it's a 2002 game it's held up pretty well

[woven escarp]

don't play frost mage this patch, it's trash

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[maiden lodge]

Not even the same level of dumpster.

[exotic copper]

dont play puppet in 11

[woven escarp]

a 40% difference between top and bottom dps?

[exotic copper]

like every game has downfalls

[woven escarp]

yeah, that's about the spread in XI

[maiden lodge]

Is still better than 'you literally lack any use in this party because your job kit is counterproductive to what we're trying to do'

[brisk quail]

Like... FFXIV has a problem of scaling up infinitely... which leads to need of a stat squish.

Destiny has a problem of scaling not mattering much at all. If you're not at level, you get a substantial penalty like a reverse echo.

Both are systems built for different things. And both have thier pros and cons

[woven escarp]

only bst had no use in parties because it was specifically a solo job

[exotic copper]

we're not talking about the core argument

the core argument was the gear, scaling and stat system between 11 and 14

not class design

[woven escarp]

but pup had a bunch of nerfs thrown at it because ADD spam was too good

you could just explode enemies faster than anyone else

[maiden lodge]

Job design factors into it Elrek

Jobs in FF11 are designed by taking a bunch of shit, throwing it at a wall, and then let the players sort out what's useful and what's useless, who then take gear to use whatever ability is needed at whatever time

[woven escarp]

as opposed to "I get all my i540 gear, see you next expac"

[maiden lodge]

Jobs in FF14 are built to be functional and play fast and furious (relative to FF11) and have a completely different skill vector.

[brisk quail]

Like... to me... FFXI leaned heavily into the job feel it felt authentic to what the job did (like dancer being nothing but a buffer)

[maiden lodge]

Suuuuuuuuuure it did.

[exotic copper]

So if we imagine a player as a mechanic who has a toolbox, the player who is playing 11 has a hammer and a screwdriver, then has to pick all the pieces of gear to get his tape measure, etc

[woven escarp]

but the way itemization worked in XI feels much better when you got an item, like "hell yes, I'm going to use this forever"

[maiden lodge]

That tank ninja feel feels really authentic to the ninja job's pedigree

[exotic copper]

and a 14 player has only whats in his box, given what is in his box is uniform

[woven escarp]

instead of "this is going to be worthless come next tier"

[exotic copper]

is that the argument

am i understanding

[maiden lodge]

The difference though, Elrek, is that an FF14 player's skill isn't tested by how well they change their clothes every minute to do that one thing they do that one minute

But rather, it's a constant endurance test of continual activity and execution under continuous pressure

[exotic copper]

Yes. Their tools are uniform and thus they do the things they do very well because they use those tools all the time and they are all always present

[maiden lodge]

FF11 jobs are snipers. You set down, you wait... you take your shot... you reload... you wait.

FF14 jobs are concerto piano players dodging bullets in a firing squad

Completely different skillsets and skillvectors. FF11's gearing doesn't suit the latter.

[exotic copper]

yeah, "i don't have pants of jaku but i have the shirt of keba that lets me do something equivalent let me swap those tools"

[brisk quail]

FFXI jobs

FF14 jobs

[maiden lodge]

I mean a piano only does one thing.

[exotic copper]

Hmm

[maiden lodge]

That doesn't mean a piano lacks depth.

[exotic copper]

I see

and the reverse is true of boss mechanics, if i recall

[woven escarp]

XI had no markers and bosses would often just kill you with mechanics if you didn't range them in time

[exotic copper]

but the mechanics were often poorly executed or simple

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, XI lacks nuance in the boss department in that regard.

[exotic copper]

compared to today's standard

[woven escarp]

it's not really fair to compare XI's mechanics with XIV's, since XI was designed for the fucking PS2 lmao

they're not complicated in the slightest

[exotic copper]

I don't disagree

I'm just doing an honest comparison

[maiden lodge]

No, it's not fair because XI came out before WoW existed

[exotic copper]

in the same way we are comparing job styles

[maiden lodge]

XI's limitations are not because of PS2, it's because it comes from a time before WoW should the world how raids could actually work.

[exotic copper]

to be fair I think 14 has gone beyond wow

[maiden lodge]

It has.

[exotic copper]

WoW was certainly a big gateway into possibility

[maiden lodge]

But 14 built on WoW's lessons, that's not even slightly controversial to say.

[exotic copper]

but 14 has mechanics that are considerably more complex and clever

[woven escarp]

as far as I know XIV's raids are apparently harder than wow's because of the amount of mechanics that happen

[exotic copper]

And the amount of time fights take

[maiden lodge]

Here's an example of unappreciated nuance on FF14.

Positionals.

[exotic copper]

WoW fights are generally not 14 length

Honestly I hate positionals

[maiden lodge]

Positionals--in a game with dodging and aoe avoidance

That's hella nuance

[exotic copper]

I make a considerable effort to never engage with them

[woven escarp]

don't most enrages have like, a 9 minute max

[maiden lodge]

Casters have their own thing they have to do as well

[exotic copper]

avg enrage in wow is 9 yes

And enrage timers are much tighter in WoW than 14, in my experience

that is to say, if dps die you are very likely not to make the timer

[brisk quail]

Wanna know a great MMO that was underappreciated?

Fucking Wildstar

[maiden lodge]

14 relies on hard enrages more than WoW does

[maiden lodge]

Wildstar levelling was shit.

[brisk quail]

That shit had a great fucking combat system

[exotic copper]

Is that true? I don't do savage but normal stuff seems pretty relaxed

[brisk quail]

[maiden lodge]

Absolute dumpster

[maiden lodge]

Normal's not designed to test you.

[exotic copper]

Wildstar leveling turned me off the game before I could even really evaluate it

[maiden lodge]

Savage is.

[woven escarp]

yeah

that's what I was thinking of

[exotic copper]

Right but Normal in WoW has harder enrage timers than normal in 14

[woven escarp]

I remember some alex fight timings where it's like 9 minutes until autoclean

[brisk quail]

Movement based combat with CC built into the system. Maaaan

[maiden lodge]

Normal in WoW's different though

[exotic copper]

Is it?

[maiden lodge]

Yeah.

[exotic copper]

How so?

You have RF, normal, heroic, mythic

normal is like the step up from duty finder

[maiden lodge]

First, WoW's raid design is different in structure--WoW tends to go into sections where, you have an easy first section, then a gear check, then a bit harder middle bit, then another gear check boss, then finally the real shit

FF14 doesn't have gear check bosses--it just starts with the real shit.

[woven escarp]

some of the earlier raids are more like trash->boss->trash->big boss

but they stopped doing that because everyone fucking hates trash lmao

[maiden lodge]

Instead, FF14 uses Extremes for its middle tier stuff

[woven escarp]

faust is enough of a gatekeeper to keep people out

[exotic copper]

oh i had an entire misunderstanding of that then

I thought extreme was over savage

[woven escarp]

no

not in raids

[maiden lodge]

No, Extreme is under savage

[woven escarp]

normal raids are for peasants

[maiden lodge]

Extreme is basically there as warmup

[woven escarp]

savage raids are for prog content

[exotic copper]

so is normal in WoW tho

[maiden lodge]

And also, to farm start weapons if you want to get more serious

[woven escarp]

if you're getting hard stopped in normal raids in XIV

[maiden lodge]

Normal raids are like... LFR>

[woven escarp]

you're not getting anywhere near savage raids lmao

[exotic copper]

I haven't hit any enrages in normal raids here

I have definitely hit enrages in LFR and normal in wow

[maiden lodge]

That's cause nromal raids don't have enrage timers

That's how 'gimme' they are.

[woven escarp]

that's not true, there's an enrage timer in alexander

[maiden lodge]

But that's why they also only give tokens for starter gear

[maiden lodge]

Mythological!

[woven escarp]

it's just that that tier is particularly tight for whatever dumb reason

I remember seeing autoclean more than once in oppressor normal lmao

[maiden lodge]

Oh well Oppressor has the enrage when you KILL one

That's a different story

thinks back

....oh wait no you're RIGHT

After the second cycle of mechanics!

[woven escarp]

yeah

if you see sticky missiles twice it enrages

[maiden lodge]

Yeah

I remember now

[woven escarp]

same with pepsiman

I don't know why they made the enrage timers so short that tier

[exotic copper]

Anyway, 14's raid design is pretty great, even if it can be a little frustrating occasionally

LIke castrum

[maiden lodge]

First time up to bat with normals

Castrum's easy

[exotic copper]

Sure after you've done it once

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, FF14 doesn't mind letting you die to learn

[exotic copper]

I went in with 0 idea, I had only heard people say "castrum sucks"

then i found out you die if you fail 2 mechanics

then i found out it doesn't explain gravity bombs

[maiden lodge]

This is another difference between WoW and FF14. FF14 doesn't have a limit on battle rezzes so it's not afraid to teach you through death.

[exotic copper]

then i found out it doesn't explain that you should stand on the illusions

[woven escarp]

XIV is pretty much the king of "guess you won't do that shit again, huh"

[maiden lodge]

Unironically I learned to enjoy Dark Souls because of FF14

[exotic copper]

I think I would have been less frustrated if I wasn't losing mettle

[woven escarp]

I like the mechanics and the GCD system in XIV

I just don't agree with the "we need more zeroes!!!"

[exotic copper]

I dont mind repairing gear or dying

I do mind losing the thing i just ground a bunch

[maiden lodge]

Unfortunately, exponential growth is unavoidable. However, they can flatten the curve a bit in non-endgame

[exotic copper]

it's not as fervent as you're portraying

[maiden lodge]

Mettle's only use is qualifying for high end lost actions and qualifying for savage DR.

[exotic copper]

It's more along the lines of "how few zeroes can we add to make people feel like they are getting stronger"

Then it is eventually followed by "hey guys you're a little too fat, we're gonna liposuction those 0s off"

[maiden lodge]

One thing about FF14 too is the skill differential between players is pretty high, even in 'they dumbed everything down' Shadowbringers

[exotic copper]

For sure. I don't think I'm particularly skilled, but I was able to do mythic in WoW with a small amount of effort on my part, I feel like a lot of people I encounter are not capable of the same

[pine epoch]

If theres more than 1 button people will find a way to optimize the shit out of every button use

[woven escarp]

that's debatable because there are quite a few potatoes out there who still have clears

[exotic copper]

actually people even optimize 1 button

say hello to cookie clicker

[maiden lodge]

And people will find ways to avoid doing even the bare minimum.

The game could have 1 button and the differential would still exist.

[exotic copper]

Paying for carries in WoW is very, very popular and common

Idk about it in 14

I'm not that intimate with the raiding scene

[woven escarp]

it's extremely popular

there's a PF that's always at the top on crystal selling clears

[maiden lodge]

can confirm--am potato, working on E12s clear

[woven escarp]

and blue mage spells for some reason 🤔

[exotic copper]

What drives people to buy clears in 14? In wow it's transmog, special mounts

[woven escarp]

titles

[exotic copper]

interesting

[woven escarp]

there are a shitload of perfect legend players out there

[maiden lodge]

Gear, titles, mounts

[woven escarp]

who are perfectly limited players

[maiden lodge]

Glams

[exotic copper]

I wasn't aware of many mounts

[maiden lodge]

Every raid tier's 4th fight has a mount now

[exotic copper]

I figured glams were a big factor

neat

[gaunt star]

ERPers share their pixel body and raiders loot they probably dont need anymore

[maiden lodge]

Including one of the few four-seaters in E4S

[gaunt star]

ez $$$

[exotic copper]

Perfect legend is bahamut savage synced right?

[pine epoch]

Theres not really any info on how many people buvclears in 14. But easiest way to tell if someone bought a clear is to check their parses

And see if there is a uh

Skew

[woven escarp]

the easiest way to tell if someone bought a clear is to ask them how to play their job

[tropic frigate]

i think perfect was alex

[gaunt star]

nah fam, if they die in a mere dungeon with that title equipped u know they $$$

[woven escarp]

because you aren't clearing a raid being a fucking muppet

[tropic frigate]

bahamut might just be uh

The legend? or was it something else?

[maiden lodge]

hey man, they put a button on my bar that kills me sometimes I gotta hit it and I ain't bought nuffin

[woven escarp]

ultimate legend, I think

[pine epoch]

I mean I am in a FC of legends and triple legends and they still die to stupid shit

So that's just human error

But if their standing there

Sucking

Then you know theres something wrong

[tropic frigate]

i was thinking ultimate was ultima

[gaunt star]

blue mage doesnt count nor dragoon

[maiden lodge]

Also, there's such a thing as APNAPs where you can master a skill but then make a really dumb error now and then cause you're not actively cognitively thinking about it

[exotic copper]

i knew a guy who was a top 100 player in WoW and would die in ICC because he was tabbed out playing cookie clicker or some other game during raids

[maiden lodge]

Red Mage! HA!

[exotic copper]

can't account for attention spans

[gaunt star]

red mage has an ability they can use instead of suiciding

[gaunt star]

but wow sucks

[maiden lodge]

And melees can back out of melee instead of being hit.

shrugs Well all have our greed.

[tropic frigate]

yea bahamuts was The legend

then its ultimate for ultima

perfect for perfect alexander

[gaunt star]

im a black mage aka the avatar of destruction so idk what those beneath me do

[maiden lodge]

Mechanics.

[gaunt star]

[pine epoch]

SHB I feel I was such a lazy player during this expac. When I normally do raids and farm trial mounts and stuff. But now that were at the end pretty much. I'm like up and about. Hosting farm parties for blue mage, trials. And some other dumb shit

[maiden lodge]

I dunno, I slacked on my trial farming this patch, still have 11 to go to 99 emmy.

Meh.

[pine epoch]

I didnt clear emerald till last week

So

[maiden lodge]

I put in some work today

Witnessed a machnist 100

[pine epoch]

I put most of my time and effort into Bozja

Blue mage

DR

And Ucob meme runs with my FC

[maiden lodge]

Watching a boss die extra early because your machnist decided to randomly be the best in the world is a good feeling, do recommend.

I asked him what painkiller he uses because his back must hurt from carrying so hard

[brisk quail]

Also...

When IS BARD GETTING CHARGES OF BLOODLETTER

What the fuck

Why don't they have charges of it like MCH

[pine epoch]

So my memory is like major stupid. I can download a fight from any game into my head and perform to the letter of what I'm supposed to do. But if I take my eyes off it for say a month I forget. Until I step back in and see each dumb mechanic once and then I go. AAAAAAAAAAAH that's what I was trying to remember

[maiden lodge]

That's normal.

Repetition is what bolsters implicit memory, so if you stop repeating after a while your implicit memory doesn't 'unlock' instantly. But then you give it that reminder and it goes back the way it was.

[pine epoch]

Souls like games is what I like to show off my gaming skills in.

Dark souls 3 or bloodborne are my go to games

Where I have like dodge timing and parry timing down to a T

That it like

[maiden lodge]

I am proud to say

[pine epoch]

Flows like water

[maiden lodge]

That the first time I encountered Pontiff Sulyvan I killed him